WEBVTT - EXTRA: Mia Interviews Jackie O About The Addiction That Almost Ended Her 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA mea podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mama Mayor acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:20.287 that this podcast is recorded on. Hello, out Louders, I'm 0:00:20.327 --> 0:00:22.687 in your ears today to bring you a very special 0:00:22.727 --> 0:00:25.767 episode of No Filter because this week I sat down 0:00:25.967 --> 0:00:29.527 with Jackie O and her best friend Gemma to talk 0:00:29.527 --> 0:00:33.767 about Jackie's addiction. It was about how she became addicted 0:00:33.807 --> 0:00:37.167 to pills and alcohol, what that addiction looked like from 0:00:37.247 --> 0:00:40.647 the inside, and also what it looked like from the outside, 0:00:40.767 --> 0:00:45.727 what everybody else was thinking because nobody knew, literally nobody knew, 0:00:46.047 --> 0:00:50.047 and I wanted to invite her best friend, Jemma O'Neil 0:00:50.127 --> 0:00:53.287 to sit down with us as well, because the first 0:00:53.367 --> 0:00:56.927 phone call jack made when she hit rock bottom, and 0:00:56.967 --> 0:01:00.047 the first person that she told was Gemma, and I 0:01:00.087 --> 0:01:03.567 wanted to understand how Jemma got her through it, how 0:01:03.607 --> 0:01:07.687 that friendship saved her life, and what we can all 0:01:07.807 --> 0:01:10.647 learn if we're struggling with addiction or if someone we 0:01:10.727 --> 0:01:13.927 love is struggling with addiction. I know that a lot 0:01:13.967 --> 0:01:18.687 of out louders have addiction in their lives somewhere. It's 0:01:18.727 --> 0:01:21.847 something that we have to grapple with and we also 0:01:21.887 --> 0:01:25.487 talk so much about friendship out loud. Anyway, I hope 0:01:25.487 --> 0:01:28.087 you enjoy this episode. Let us know what you think. 0:01:29.287 --> 0:01:31.887 You have to be quite calculated. You know, you might 0:01:31.927 --> 0:01:34.007 go out to dinner and then you're like, Okay, how 0:01:34.007 --> 0:01:35.727 many pills do I need? Where do I hide them? 0:01:35.767 --> 0:01:38.687 If someone says, oh, can I borrow your lipstick and 0:01:38.727 --> 0:01:41.967 they open your bag, you immediately panic, thinking, shit, are 0:01:42.007 --> 0:01:44.207 they going to see these pills in there? 0:01:53.807 --> 0:01:56.207 For mom and me, you're listening to no filter. I'm 0:01:56.247 --> 0:01:59.327 me a Friedman and it is pretty unusual for me 0:01:59.367 --> 0:02:02.127 to interview the same person twice within the space of 0:02:02.127 --> 0:02:04.527 a year. I don't think it's ever happened before. But 0:02:04.607 --> 0:02:07.487 the last time I sat down with Jackie O, one 0:02:07.527 --> 0:02:11.287 half of the most successful radio duo in Australian history, 0:02:11.927 --> 0:02:14.527 she had a secret not just from me, but from 0:02:14.527 --> 0:02:18.567 almost everyone in her life. Her friends, her colleagues, the 0:02:18.647 --> 0:02:21.767 men she'd begun dating after her divorce from the father 0:02:21.847 --> 0:02:26.087 of her daughter Kitty, even from her co host Kyle Sanderleans. 0:02:27.207 --> 0:02:30.647 Nobody knew that Jackie O was addicted to pills and 0:02:30.727 --> 0:02:35.567 alcohol and had been for years. The story they thought 0:02:35.607 --> 0:02:38.167 they knew is that she'd lost a whole lot of 0:02:38.167 --> 0:02:41.007 weight because she was on a zepic or because she'd 0:02:41.007 --> 0:02:44.687 had surgery. That's what the gossip site said, and that's 0:02:44.727 --> 0:02:48.207 how the rooms wet. But everyone missed the real story, 0:02:48.847 --> 0:02:52.927 which was so much bigger and deeper and more sad 0:02:53.007 --> 0:02:56.687 than you would expect from someone who, from the outside anyways, 0:02:56.727 --> 0:03:03.007 seemed so successful and so powerful and so glamorous. When 0:03:03.047 --> 0:03:06.327 I last spoke to Jackie, it was a great conversation. 0:03:06.487 --> 0:03:10.607 She was her usual down to earth self, deprecating, no bullshit, 0:03:10.927 --> 0:03:15.007 funny self, despite having just signed a new ten year 0:03:15.047 --> 0:03:18.287 contract for her radio show with Kyle that was worth 0:03:18.367 --> 0:03:21.767 a reported one hundred million dollars. We spoke about that 0:03:22.207 --> 0:03:24.807 on that episode, and we spoke about Kyle. But today 0:03:24.807 --> 0:03:28.087 we're not talking about those things, not about money, not 0:03:28.247 --> 0:03:32.047 about Kyle. Today we're talking about the secret that Jackie 0:03:32.127 --> 0:03:34.847 has only just shared with the world in her memoir 0:03:35.007 --> 0:03:40.127 called Suitably The Whole Truth. And today she also has 0:03:40.167 --> 0:03:43.687 someone sitting beside her in the studio because Jemma O'Neil 0:03:43.927 --> 0:03:47.487 is not only Jackie's best friend and her manager and 0:03:47.567 --> 0:03:51.167 her business partner, she's the one who Jackie called when 0:03:51.207 --> 0:03:54.607 she hit rock bottom. On the darkest day of her life, 0:03:55.207 --> 0:03:58.407 and to understand the story of Jackie's addiction and recovery 0:03:58.567 --> 0:04:01.007 from the inside. I knew that I wanted to hear 0:04:01.047 --> 0:04:03.727 Jemma's point of view as well. So let's jump in. 0:04:04.527 --> 0:04:06.087 I should start at the beginning, but I want to 0:04:06.087 --> 0:04:08.367 start in the middle, and I want to get my 0:04:08.487 --> 0:04:12.127 timing right. There was a weekend in I think twenty 0:04:12.167 --> 0:04:15.767 twenty two where there is a series of phone calls 0:04:16.287 --> 0:04:21.047 that changed your life, Jack, and then your life Gemma. 0:04:21.287 --> 0:04:23.687 The first phone call came to you, Jack on a 0:04:23.727 --> 0:04:28.647 Sunday morning from someone telling you that your life had 0:04:28.727 --> 0:04:31.367 changed in a big way. Can you tell me about 0:04:31.447 --> 0:04:34.887 where you were when that phone call arrived, like physically, 0:04:35.647 --> 0:04:36.407 how are you feeling? 0:04:36.487 --> 0:04:40.927 What were you doing? I think it was just a 0:04:40.967 --> 0:04:42.927 normal Sunday morning. 0:04:42.767 --> 0:04:44.607 Which was what for you at that time. 0:04:44.767 --> 0:04:47.767 So Gemma had been around the night before with another 0:04:47.807 --> 0:04:51.607 friend of ours, Kim, and so we'd been drinking and 0:04:51.847 --> 0:04:55.607 having a great girls night, and I think I would 0:04:55.647 --> 0:04:58.607 have finished up around two am, and then I think 0:04:58.687 --> 0:05:01.567 around the time that I have no idea what time 0:05:01.607 --> 0:05:04.887 I got up the next day actually, and it was 0:05:05.007 --> 0:05:10.087 just probably me, you know, eating, drinking, watching TV and 0:05:10.127 --> 0:05:13.647 then I got a phone call from the person who 0:05:13.767 --> 0:05:17.487 was supplying me with the painkillers, the only person who 0:05:17.767 --> 0:05:20.767 has ever done that. I've never been able to access 0:05:20.767 --> 0:05:25.047 them before like that, and that person called me to 0:05:25.087 --> 0:05:28.807 say that they couldn't do it anymore because they had 0:05:28.847 --> 0:05:33.407 been busted. I was. I took the call outside and 0:05:33.607 --> 0:05:35.927 I just remember thinking, Oh my god, this is it. 0:05:36.007 --> 0:05:39.047 This is the moment I feared. What am I going 0:05:39.127 --> 0:05:41.687 to do? You know, all these thoughts run through your 0:05:41.727 --> 0:05:45.367 head of like oh shit, now what like you know, 0:05:45.687 --> 0:05:47.247 how am I going to get out of this? How 0:05:47.287 --> 0:05:50.487 am I going to taper off this kind of amount 0:05:50.567 --> 0:05:51.927 that I'm taking of medication? 0:05:52.647 --> 0:05:53.887 How long had you been taking it for? 0:05:54.087 --> 0:05:56.727 Well, I would say it was the beginning of COVID 0:05:56.847 --> 0:06:00.447 was when it got really bad. So it originally started 0:06:00.647 --> 0:06:04.367 about fifteen years prior when I had been prescribed a 0:06:04.407 --> 0:06:07.847 really strong painkiller and don't which people know in Australia 0:06:07.927 --> 0:06:10.687 is like oxy content in. 0:06:10.807 --> 0:06:14.687 The strongest painkiller. I think that you cand it. It's no, 0:06:14.767 --> 0:06:16.887 you can't get it over counters. It's usually you get 0:06:16.887 --> 0:06:20.127 prescribed it after an operation or you had it for endometriotus. 0:06:20.327 --> 0:06:22.927 Yeah, so I had it for the endometriosis. They'd given 0:06:22.927 --> 0:06:25.567 me other painkillers that weren't very effective, and it was 0:06:25.687 --> 0:06:30.647 really severe pain at the time. And yeah, it's very 0:06:30.647 --> 0:06:33.967 difficult to get end on rightly, so in this country, 0:06:34.327 --> 0:06:38.567 and so that's where it started. And then I think 0:06:38.807 --> 0:06:43.607 because you couldn't even access something like that, you couldn't 0:06:43.607 --> 0:06:46.287 just even go doctor shopping for it, because doctors are 0:06:46.367 --> 0:06:49.647 extremely aware that there are people out there like me 0:06:50.167 --> 0:06:52.487 who are abusing it, and so can. 0:06:52.447 --> 0:06:54.487 You explain doctor shopping. One of the things I found 0:06:54.567 --> 0:06:59.887 most interesting in your book was getting inside addiction, and 0:07:00.207 --> 0:07:03.167 one of the things that came across so much was 0:07:03.687 --> 0:07:05.327 how time consuming. It is. 0:07:05.447 --> 0:07:07.447 Time consuming so time like. 0:07:07.407 --> 0:07:10.927 There's the money, there's all of those things, but it like, 0:07:11.087 --> 0:07:14.247 what was the process of getting the amount of drugs 0:07:14.287 --> 0:07:16.447 that you needed before you found this person who could 0:07:16.527 --> 0:07:17.047 supply it. 0:07:17.247 --> 0:07:21.007 Well, See, the thing is I got the intake increased 0:07:21.127 --> 0:07:25.167 because of the person I ran into and because I 0:07:25.287 --> 0:07:30.447 had access to it freely, it then increased tenfold very quickly. 0:07:31.007 --> 0:07:34.687 So originally when I was prescribed the end DOMEE, I 0:07:34.767 --> 0:07:39.127 really wasn't taking it to it. It was just one 0:07:39.207 --> 0:07:42.287 extra here and there. When I was a. 0:07:42.247 --> 0:07:44.447 Lot to treat pain, to just take the edge of 0:07:44.647 --> 0:07:47.127 Obviously it was originally to treat the pain, and then 0:07:47.167 --> 0:07:49.607 it became like, oh, I'm having a really shit day, 0:07:49.647 --> 0:07:51.727 I might take one of those because they give me 0:07:51.767 --> 0:07:52.847 a really nice feeling. 0:07:53.527 --> 0:07:59.407 And so doctor shopping for something like that is really awful. 0:07:59.607 --> 0:08:01.727 I can't even begin to tell you. The whole thing 0:08:01.887 --> 0:08:06.127 feels just dirty. And you're you know, you're lying, you 0:08:06.247 --> 0:08:09.167 know you're doing something wrong, and you're not stopping yourself 0:08:09.287 --> 0:08:11.007 and doing it. So you're famous. 0:08:11.207 --> 0:08:14.247 How do you doctor shop when you're Jackie O and 0:08:14.287 --> 0:08:20.647 you're that recognizable in waiting rooms? Yeah, by doctors, by receptionists. 0:08:21.447 --> 0:08:24.167 Yeah, well you go far and wide. That's the thing. 0:08:24.247 --> 0:08:27.287 You try not to go to a doctor surgery in 0:08:27.327 --> 0:08:30.487 the same suburb too, in the same because who knows 0:08:30.487 --> 0:08:32.847 if those people know each other, and we'll say, oh, 0:08:32.967 --> 0:08:35.087 Jackie O came into the doctor surgery today, and the 0:08:35.167 --> 0:08:37.887 other one goes, yeah, me too. You know, alarm bells 0:08:37.887 --> 0:08:41.607 would go off. So it's incredibly devious behavior. 0:08:41.767 --> 0:08:43.727 And what did you have to say to the doctors? 0:08:44.407 --> 0:08:47.087 Would I would tell the truth? But you know, it 0:08:47.127 --> 0:08:49.967 was it was as though I'd also said that story 0:08:49.967 --> 0:08:52.047 to the other doctor. So I was getting twice the 0:08:52.087 --> 0:08:54.447 amount I needed. So it wasn't that I was lying 0:08:54.487 --> 0:08:56.927 about the pain. I was telling them about the end 0:08:56.967 --> 0:09:00.967 of metriosis. And yeah, a lot of the time, every 0:09:01.047 --> 0:09:02.647 now and again, a doctor would go, I don't feel 0:09:02.687 --> 0:09:03.807 comfortable prescribing this. 0:09:04.087 --> 0:09:06.287 And did you feel so ashamed when that happened? 0:09:06.327 --> 0:09:09.247 I really did. Yeah, it was That was the worst 0:09:09.367 --> 0:09:11.527 part is the shame that comes with it. 0:09:11.647 --> 0:09:13.047 How do you end that conversation. 0:09:13.167 --> 0:09:16.967 It's like, oh, okay, yeah, you just exactly. You just 0:09:17.007 --> 0:09:19.487 go okay, and they go, I'll prescribe you this instead. 0:09:20.767 --> 0:09:24.047 And one time because you became worried that there would 0:09:24.087 --> 0:09:27.487 be some central record. Yeah, so you knew you couldn't 0:09:27.487 --> 0:09:30.207 give a false name, so you gave a false birth date. 0:09:30.727 --> 0:09:31.807 When did that go wrong? 0:09:33.647 --> 0:09:37.287 I was just writing down whatever birthdate came to my mind. 0:09:37.407 --> 0:09:39.087 When they give you the form to go and sit 0:09:39.167 --> 0:09:41.607 down and write out your details. Gais a couple of numbers, Yeah, 0:09:41.647 --> 0:09:44.327 pick a couple of numbers. Any numbers doesn't matter. Actually 0:09:44.407 --> 0:09:48.607 it does matter when it's February. Because I wrote February thirty. 0:09:50.407 --> 0:09:52.927 I got busted. I went to the receptionist. She's typing 0:09:52.927 --> 0:09:55.927 it in she goes, wait, so your birthday is February thirty, 0:09:56.487 --> 0:09:58.647 and I no, she didn't even say February. She went 0:09:58.847 --> 0:10:01.327 the thirtieth of the second. So I didn't admit and 0:10:01.367 --> 0:10:05.407 I was like yeah, and oh god, again the shame, 0:10:05.767 --> 0:10:10.207 the shame, so oh that it didn't last very long 0:10:10.207 --> 0:10:13.407 the doctor shopping, because I actually just thought, this is, 0:10:13.887 --> 0:10:16.327 this is you got to stop like you're you're going 0:10:16.367 --> 0:10:18.247 to get in trouble here, you know, and you're also 0:10:18.327 --> 0:10:22.047 going to where does it end? You know? It will 0:10:22.207 --> 0:10:24.287 it will? You'll want more and more if you keep 0:10:24.327 --> 0:10:28.407 taking more than you should. So thankfully, I think due 0:10:28.407 --> 0:10:33.007 to that lack of access, it stopped me from having 0:10:33.207 --> 0:10:36.407 a full blown addiction back then, and so it didn't 0:10:36.487 --> 0:10:40.487 really this oh well that was let me think I 0:10:40.487 --> 0:10:44.207 would have been about It would have been maybe late twenties, 0:10:44.247 --> 0:10:47.927 early thirties, I think when the end on one happened. 0:10:48.447 --> 0:10:51.727 And again I wouldn't have called that an addiction. I 0:10:51.767 --> 0:10:54.327 think that was an abuse. It was abusing something and 0:10:54.367 --> 0:10:57.967 taking it a little bit recreationally, but not an addiction 0:10:58.167 --> 0:11:02.047 at that point, although obviously the addictive behavior was coming out, 0:11:02.567 --> 0:11:06.527 and so it wasn't until probably twenty nineteen, I think 0:11:06.967 --> 0:11:10.767 late twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. I had access to it 0:11:10.807 --> 0:11:12.767 and used it as a coping mech. 0:11:12.767 --> 0:11:15.487 Quite a few years later, and it's years in between. 0:11:15.847 --> 0:11:17.647 Were you doctor shopping all of that time? 0:11:17.767 --> 0:11:20.647 No? No, no, no, no, you did stop. I did, 0:11:20.887 --> 0:11:24.087 yeah shopping. It was almost like that was so much 0:11:24.167 --> 0:11:28.327 effort and so much embarrassment came with that, and humiliation 0:11:29.047 --> 0:11:32.167 because even sometimes when you were prescribed it, you could 0:11:32.247 --> 0:11:35.167 tell the doctor was almost looking at you like you were. 0:11:35.967 --> 0:11:37.847 I used to think to myself, God, he's looking at 0:11:37.887 --> 0:11:40.167 me like I'm a junkie, you know, And I thought, 0:11:40.167 --> 0:11:42.887 but you are a junkie right now in this situation, 0:11:43.047 --> 0:11:46.447 you are pretty much like I just thought. You know, 0:11:46.487 --> 0:11:51.247 it was too humiliating, and I thankfully stop that because 0:11:51.327 --> 0:11:54.967 I can't. Doctor shopping is incredibly time consuming. 0:11:55.887 --> 0:11:58.847 Is that when you started drinking more? No, not even effect. 0:11:59.007 --> 0:12:01.727 No, I didn't. Actually I never really had a problem 0:12:01.807 --> 0:12:06.687 with drinking. I think I would say, you know, I 0:12:06.687 --> 0:12:09.767 guess it depends how you define a problem with drinking. 0:12:09.887 --> 0:12:14.167 So I never really liked alcohol at all. Kitty was born, 0:12:14.727 --> 0:12:18.607 and then suddenly it was a lot was happening with 0:12:18.727 --> 0:12:22.007 my marriage, and then a child on top of that, 0:12:22.087 --> 0:12:25.087 and then we obviously refused any help. We didn't get 0:12:25.127 --> 0:12:26.807 anyone on board, so it was just Leah and I, 0:12:26.847 --> 0:12:31.167 which is fine, you know, it's absolutely manageable. And I 0:12:31.207 --> 0:12:33.847 think because the problems we were having, I don't know, 0:12:33.887 --> 0:12:36.767 it just felt like, oh, suddenly I was wanting a 0:12:36.807 --> 0:12:39.447 glass of wine as soon as she went to bed 0:12:39.967 --> 0:12:43.127 and so. But again, it wasn't that I was drinking 0:12:43.167 --> 0:12:47.127 too much during that period, but I absolutely did have 0:12:47.607 --> 0:12:52.607 one or two every single day for the next thirteen years, 0:12:52.807 --> 0:12:54.807 or not thirteen actually because I went to rehab when 0:12:54.847 --> 0:12:57.167 she was seven days a week, but seven days a week, 0:12:57.247 --> 0:13:01.607 and whilst I wasn't getting drunk when I was in rehab, 0:13:02.047 --> 0:13:03.927 and went in there thinking, oh, I'm not going to 0:13:03.927 --> 0:13:06.047 give up alcohol because I don't have a problem with that. 0:13:06.527 --> 0:13:10.727 Once I started writing down my real life relationship to alcohol, 0:13:11.167 --> 0:13:14.087 I thought, well, if I haven't had one day for 0:13:14.167 --> 0:13:17.167 the last ten eleven years without a glass of wine, 0:13:17.287 --> 0:13:20.247 then maybe there is a problem there. I mean, you 0:13:20.287 --> 0:13:23.367 don't have to be getting drunk every night and waking 0:13:23.447 --> 0:13:25.647 up and drinking alcohol first thing in the morning to 0:13:25.887 --> 0:13:28.287 have a problem with alcohol. And I think that's how 0:13:28.327 --> 0:13:30.447 I always identified. 0:13:30.087 --> 0:13:33.007 It's like alcoholic adjacent, Yeah it is, or using it 0:13:33.007 --> 0:13:33.487 as a crutch. 0:13:33.567 --> 0:13:35.007 It's a dependency on it. 0:13:35.087 --> 0:13:38.887 Yeah, for sure, when you got that phone call and 0:13:38.927 --> 0:13:42.007 you think about how long had that person been in 0:13:42.047 --> 0:13:44.327 your life who was supplying you with the pills? 0:13:44.687 --> 0:13:47.687 Pretty much as soon as I ran into them is 0:13:47.727 --> 0:13:50.247 when it started. So twenty nineteen I think that was. 0:13:50.887 --> 0:13:51.927 And how would it work? 0:13:52.007 --> 0:13:55.567 Would you like text them because I imagine they were 0:13:55.567 --> 0:13:58.727 not doing the right thing and you were not doing 0:13:58.727 --> 0:13:59.287 the right thing. 0:13:59.367 --> 0:14:00.487 Yeah, so how. 0:14:00.287 --> 0:14:02.447 Did you actually do it? Because the risk of being 0:14:02.447 --> 0:14:04.127 caught for both of you and the stakes. 0:14:03.847 --> 0:14:06.847 For high Yeah, I didn't think about that. It's almost 0:14:06.887 --> 0:14:08.407 like I didn't even want to think. 0:14:08.247 --> 0:14:12.607 About that part because it wasn't like you weren't scoring 0:14:12.647 --> 0:14:15.607 heroine and you weren't think it was like these were 0:14:15.687 --> 0:14:18.407 just over the counter painkillers exactly. 0:14:18.487 --> 0:14:21.807 I thought, well, these are legal, so therefore it's not 0:14:21.847 --> 0:14:23.887 that big a deal. That's what I told myself. 0:14:24.527 --> 0:14:27.447 And did you feel shame when you spoke to this 0:14:27.527 --> 0:14:29.847 person and you kept saying, I need like did you 0:14:29.887 --> 0:14:31.807 get them by the box? Did you go and pick 0:14:31.847 --> 0:14:33.007 them up from their house? 0:14:33.167 --> 0:14:37.567 Like? No, I would I would meet them, and it 0:14:37.647 --> 0:14:41.287 was actually, yeah, so they I would meet them. I 0:14:41.567 --> 0:14:44.407 don't want to give away who this person is, but 0:14:44.487 --> 0:14:47.407 it's not It's not like this kind of dodgy drug 0:14:47.447 --> 0:14:49.687 deal in the middle. I'm not, you know, sitting in 0:14:49.727 --> 0:14:54.967 their car and exchanging It wasn't quite like that, but no, 0:14:55.247 --> 0:14:56.247 but it was like that. 0:14:56.447 --> 0:14:58.447 It just didn't but feel like that exactly. 0:14:58.727 --> 0:15:03.247 Yeah. It wasn't like, you know, necessarily drug dealer type. 0:15:03.327 --> 0:15:05.327 It was yeh, a situation. 0:15:05.487 --> 0:15:07.287 It has a different situation when you. 0:15:07.207 --> 0:15:09.207 Think about that person, how do you feel about them? 0:15:11.607 --> 0:15:18.327 That's a good question actually, because I know my friend 0:15:18.447 --> 0:15:22.887 Gemma is angry with that person, but I am not 0:15:23.367 --> 0:15:26.527 because I put them in that situation and I know 0:15:26.687 --> 0:15:31.727 they gave me an extraordinarily large amount of medication. But 0:15:31.847 --> 0:15:33.567 I can't turn around at the end of it all 0:15:33.607 --> 0:15:36.887 and go, well, you shouldn't have done that. I don't know. 0:15:36.967 --> 0:15:40.487 I just I don't know what I was lying to 0:15:40.527 --> 0:15:42.647 them as well. I mean, I wasn't saying it was 0:15:42.687 --> 0:15:44.367 all for me. I was saying, oh, yeah, I've got 0:15:44.367 --> 0:15:46.247 some people at work who need you know, still knocks 0:15:46.287 --> 0:15:48.687 as well because we all work crazy hours. Okay, So 0:15:48.967 --> 0:15:51.207 I was lying to them all. 0:15:51.247 --> 0:15:55.007 Slight different with the many packets of neuropan plus and 0:15:55.127 --> 0:15:56.487 painkillers that you needed though. 0:15:56.607 --> 0:15:59.407 Yeah, yeah, it was just because that's stuff you have 0:15:59.447 --> 0:16:02.207 to go to a doctor and get prescribed it, and 0:16:03.287 --> 0:16:06.247 you know that used to be an over the counter situation, 0:16:06.727 --> 0:16:09.887 and you know they could access it and they were like, yeah, okay, 0:16:09.887 --> 0:16:13.407 no worse, you know, I don't know do you have 0:16:13.447 --> 0:16:17.567 contact with them anymore? No? No, no, ever since that day, 0:16:17.887 --> 0:16:21.607 I think it was. That was it, you know, was done. 0:16:22.607 --> 0:16:25.007 The next fine call you made after that. 0:16:24.887 --> 0:16:28.727 One was to who Gemma my best friend? 0:16:29.247 --> 0:16:30.207 What did you say to her? 0:16:30.567 --> 0:16:30.647 So? 0:16:31.047 --> 0:16:31.247 Why? 0:16:32.087 --> 0:16:35.767 Well? I thought I needed someone who I knew could 0:16:35.847 --> 0:16:39.287 a help me and b wouldn't judge me and was 0:16:39.367 --> 0:16:42.647 close to me that I could trust. And Jemma knew 0:16:42.767 --> 0:16:45.887 everything about me except that you know, she was the 0:16:45.887 --> 0:16:49.167 one I would always talk to about any problem I 0:16:49.207 --> 0:16:50.687 had in life, and vice versa. 0:16:51.247 --> 0:16:54.927 Interestingly, in the book, you talk about your assistant who's 0:16:54.927 --> 0:16:58.247 been with you for ten years, Brett, who sounds amazing. Yeah, 0:16:58.287 --> 0:17:02.367 and she knows everything about you, yes, including this. She's 0:17:02.407 --> 0:17:04.807 the one person or the other person besides the person 0:17:04.847 --> 0:17:06.887 who was supplying you with it, who did know and 0:17:06.927 --> 0:17:10.207 she would sometimes leave notes around the house because she 0:17:10.207 --> 0:17:12.727 would see all the empty blister packs, and she would 0:17:13.767 --> 0:17:17.767 witnessed you, you know, day and night, and she'd watched 0:17:17.767 --> 0:17:21.527 you deteriorate along with other people. Why didn't you call 0:17:21.567 --> 0:17:22.687 her first? 0:17:24.367 --> 0:17:26.727 I don't feel I want to burden her with something 0:17:26.847 --> 0:17:29.887 like that. I think with Britta and I, she is 0:17:30.407 --> 0:17:32.607 like a big We always laugh. She's my big sister 0:17:32.727 --> 0:17:35.287 because she's the protector, and she's the one that's always 0:17:35.567 --> 0:17:41.767 trying to will in those days help me and I. 0:17:42.127 --> 0:17:45.407 But she always has kept it professional. 0:17:45.727 --> 0:17:45.927 You know. 0:17:46.127 --> 0:17:50.527 She's always very careful not to cross the line where 0:17:50.287 --> 0:17:54.567 we become best friends. And she's always mindful of that 0:17:54.567 --> 0:17:57.127 that there's a line like we don't cross. We're friends, 0:17:57.167 --> 0:18:01.007 we're like sisters, but also we're not hanging out socializing 0:18:01.047 --> 0:18:04.527 every single day. And I feel and so there has 0:18:04.607 --> 0:18:07.647 been a certain level of professionalism with brittan Ie and 0:18:07.687 --> 0:18:08.567 our relationship. 0:18:09.927 --> 0:18:11.207 That must have been a big deal for her to 0:18:11.207 --> 0:18:14.007 write those letters. Oh absolutely, How did you feel when 0:18:14.007 --> 0:18:16.087 you saw them, because that was the first time you'd 0:18:16.087 --> 0:18:17.367 had a mirror held up to you. 0:18:17.447 --> 0:18:22.007 Yeah. Oh, I think when you're in and when you're 0:18:22.007 --> 0:18:24.687 in the middle of an addiction and someone does that 0:18:24.887 --> 0:18:28.687 to you, you don't sit there and go, oh my god, 0:18:28.727 --> 0:18:31.407 I feel so ashamed. I feel so this. Oh I 0:18:31.447 --> 0:18:34.287 really should get help. I can't believe she you just 0:18:34.567 --> 0:18:37.647 immediately don't think about that. Let's not think about that. 0:18:38.047 --> 0:18:46.927 It's just you just don't want denial, big denial. Yeah. 0:18:46.967 --> 0:18:49.687 After this short break, we hear from Gemma, who was 0:18:49.687 --> 0:18:52.167 on the other end of that phone call, and we 0:18:52.287 --> 0:18:57.927 find out what she did next. So you called Gemma 0:18:58.007 --> 0:19:00.607 because she's the closest person to you, and also she 0:19:00.687 --> 0:19:03.967 knows how to get shit done and sort shit out. Yeah, 0:19:04.047 --> 0:19:06.687 which brings me to you, Jem and that weekend for 0:19:06.767 --> 0:19:10.807 you the night before when you'd been over at Jack's house, 0:19:12.047 --> 0:19:14.327 what did you notice about her and what had you 0:19:14.447 --> 0:19:16.607 noticed over what period of time leading up to that. 0:19:17.567 --> 0:19:20.447 I probably didn't notice much the night before, And in fact, 0:19:20.447 --> 0:19:21.807 we was saying this the other day. It was quite 0:19:21.807 --> 0:19:25.687 funny because I left earlier that night, which in nine sight, 0:19:26.007 --> 0:19:28.167 thank god I did, because I needed my wits about 0:19:28.207 --> 0:19:28.487 me the. 0:19:28.407 --> 0:19:29.567 Next day, it turned out. 0:19:30.367 --> 0:19:33.527 But I think I left it like nine or ten 0:19:34.167 --> 0:19:37.007 that that night before, And to be honest with you, 0:19:37.047 --> 0:19:39.687 there was nothing different that night as opposed to any 0:19:39.687 --> 0:19:41.927 other night that we would hang out or day we'd 0:19:41.927 --> 0:19:44.887 hang out. But the consistent thing that I saw was 0:19:44.927 --> 0:19:48.207 that there was a niggling feeling that something wasn't right. 0:19:49.047 --> 0:19:51.807 And I think that's why I got so upset when 0:19:51.847 --> 0:19:53.887 I found out, because I was angry at myself that 0:19:53.927 --> 0:19:57.047 I hadn't figured it out. But there was always an 0:19:57.127 --> 0:20:00.847 excuse that I thought, like, you know, whether it was 0:20:00.927 --> 0:20:03.527 Jack seemed really tired. Well, obviously, it turns out she 0:20:03.607 --> 0:20:05.927 was taking fourteen still knoxes a day, so of course 0:20:05.927 --> 0:20:08.327 she's going to be tired. But in my head, i'd 0:20:08.367 --> 0:20:11.247 see her be really sl tired, and I'd think, well, 0:20:11.287 --> 0:20:15.807 she does breakfast hours and she's exhausted, and you know, deniability. Yeah, 0:20:15.887 --> 0:20:20.647 And so there was always kind of a reason. Or 0:20:20.687 --> 0:20:22.847 I'd noticed that we'd go out for dinner and maybe 0:20:22.887 --> 0:20:25.527 we'd only had one or two glasses of wine and 0:20:25.567 --> 0:20:27.927 I'm obviously still fine, and Jack would seem like she 0:20:28.007 --> 0:20:30.527 was drunk, and I'd think, again, well she. 0:20:30.407 --> 0:20:31.767 You know, she doesn't get a lot of sleep. 0:20:31.887 --> 0:20:34.607 So there was always this kind of I had this 0:20:34.847 --> 0:20:37.807 justification in a way in my head, and I was 0:20:37.847 --> 0:20:40.047 at I was at her all the time, like I 0:20:40.127 --> 0:20:41.807 was saying, something's not right, and I think we should 0:20:41.847 --> 0:20:42.567 take you to the doctor. 0:20:42.847 --> 0:20:46.047 Well, during that time, I think about six weeks, maybe 0:20:46.047 --> 0:20:51.127 even eight weeks prior I genuinely had gotten sick, had COVID. 0:20:51.327 --> 0:20:54.687 Then I think it was like a lung or chest infection. 0:20:54.847 --> 0:20:56.327 I just don't know what it was, but it was 0:20:56.447 --> 0:21:00.807 constant coughing, being lethargic. And so I was sick for 0:21:00.847 --> 0:21:04.647 this very long period of time, which I know was 0:21:04.687 --> 0:21:05.127 for you. 0:21:05.367 --> 0:21:08.287 Yeah, I was should be getting better, Yeah, because nothing 0:21:08.367 --> 0:21:11.327 was changing. I thought something's not right here. But yeah, 0:21:11.407 --> 0:21:16.487 I guess I noticed small things, but it never ever 0:21:16.967 --> 0:21:18.847 occurred to me that it would be. 0:21:18.847 --> 0:21:22.567 What it was. But also I was with Jack all. 0:21:22.407 --> 0:21:25.847 The time, and she was very very good at hiding it, 0:21:26.207 --> 0:21:28.047 like there was no signs. 0:21:27.807 --> 0:21:29.207 Add It's a crafty, aren't they? 0:21:30.047 --> 0:21:31.487