Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this
Speaker 1: podcast on the Gatagul people of the Eora Nation. We
Speaker 1: pay our respects to their elders past and present, and
Speaker 1: extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander cultures.
Speaker 2: Hi, it's Grace from this Glorious mess introducing hot Pod Summer.
Speaker 2: It's one hundred hours of curated listening across the Mumma
Speaker 2: mea network just for you to escape the chaos and
Speaker 2: enjoy with the kids at home and the weather warming up.
Speaker 2: We're gonna share some episodes of Little Love Stories. Little
Speaker 2: Love Stories is an open hearted conversation with someone who
Speaker 2: has loved to share that love can be anything, a
Speaker 2: time in someone's life, a person, or even an object.
Speaker 2: It's all about discovering the magic everywhere you look. So
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy this episode of Little Love Stories.
Speaker 3: I love you, how you live You.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Little Love Stories. I'm Grace Rubrey. The moment
Speaker 2: you become a parent is surreal looking down at this squishy,
Speaker 2: slippery newborn on your chest, caught up in the whirlwind
Speaker 2: of emotion that this is real, this actually happened. It's overwhelming, heartwarming,
Speaker 2: and confusing all at once. But sometimes that beautiful early
Speaker 2: bubble is also wrapped in pain, as it is for
Speaker 2: today's guest, Anna waters Massy. At thirty, Anna became a
Speaker 2: mother to her daughter, Cleo, and just a year later
Speaker 2: she lost her own mother to cancer. Yet despite this
Speaker 2: profound loss, Anna discovered something extraordinary in her bond with Cleo.
Speaker 4: I don't know this amazing feeling. Cleo just looked at me,
Speaker 4: and I just knew Mum had gone into Cleo, not
Speaker 4: as impossessed her or anything, but had gone into and
Speaker 4: we're going to come out through Cleo. All her life.
Speaker 4: I knew that Mum would be there.
Speaker 2: There's a rare, incredible connection some mothers and daughters share,
Speaker 2: one that Anna and Cleo are lucky enough to experience.
Speaker 2: Even though Cleia never met her grandmother, that love still
Speaker 2: weaves through their relationship, tying generations together.
Speaker 4: Cleo and I are very both. I would say she's
Speaker 4: probably my best friend, and I feel like that is
Speaker 4: through Mum being such a huge part of her.
Speaker 2: And then another bond forms, one that strengthens even further
Speaker 2: when a new life enters the world. The day Anna
Speaker 2: became a grandmother and Cleo welcomed her daughter, Indigo, a
Speaker 2: new chapter of their shared journey began.
Speaker 4: When in the hospital room and to see my daughter
Speaker 4: holding a baby, I just lost it.
Speaker 2: This is a story of four generations of women and
Speaker 2: the connection they have to each other. But before we
Speaker 2: get there, I asked some of the parents at the
Speaker 2: Mum of Mea office what it felt like the day
Speaker 2: they became a parent.
Speaker 3: I vividly remember when I gave birth to my first
Speaker 3: They plunked him on my chest. People talk about oh
Speaker 3: my god, instant love. I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: what is this like. It took my brain time to
Speaker 3: process that this thing that had been growing inside me
Speaker 3: that was now this like red, little naked ball of
Speaker 3: human was actually my child. And I just remember that
Speaker 3: being my first memory, like, oh my god. It was
Speaker 3: almost like shock. Honestly, it is hard to put into
Speaker 3: words what I felt when I first saw my child
Speaker 3: for the first time.
Speaker 1: I remember having warm tingles all throughout my body.
Speaker 2: I was smiling like crazy, and I kept.
Speaker 1: Thinking to myself, Wow, this little boy, he's my son.
Speaker 5: Not really about my baby, but my moment of realization
Speaker 5: was when I accident did a shit in the shower
Speaker 5: while on the eapy dural and then squished it down
Speaker 5: the drain before the midwife saw it because I didn't
Speaker 5: want her to have to clean it.
Speaker 6: Aside from my husband's sister posting our hospital room pick
Speaker 6: that we privately shared to our family on Facebook, the
Speaker 6: most pivotal memory from the day I first became a
Speaker 6: parent would have to be when the nurse set that weird, squishy,
Speaker 6: covered in gross stuff baby on my chest, and I
Speaker 6: just remember thinking, Holy, look what I made. And then
Speaker 6: that was very closely followed by oh my God, what
Speaker 6: do I do now? And then realizing that everything would
Speaker 6: be different from that point on.
Speaker 4: My heart cracked open. It's an indescribable feeling.
Speaker 2: One moment, we were two, the next week were three.
Speaker 7: All my children were born very prematurely, but I remember
Speaker 7: very clearly with my eldest boy that after seventy two
Speaker 7: hour labor, I was holding him in my arms, just
Speaker 7: before he was taken off to Nikou, and his eyes
Speaker 7: were wide open. He was so alert, and he was
Speaker 7: just staring up at me as if to say, who
Speaker 7: on earth are you? And what on Earth is going on,
Speaker 7: And that's the moment that I realized I was actually
Speaker 7: a mum.
Speaker 2: Anna, can you tell me what you remember the most
Speaker 2: about the day that you became a mother?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it was long, It was tedious. When
Speaker 4: Cleo came out, I just actually could not believe that
Speaker 4: I made a person. I knew I was going to
Speaker 4: have a baby, but until I looked at her and went,
Speaker 4: oh my god, like it's actually a real baby, it
Speaker 4: just blew me away. It was like freaking amazing. It
Speaker 4: is the biggest miracle in the world. It really is.
Speaker 2: Our bodies are fascinating.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you just make them, like you just make
Speaker 4: another person. That just blows me away. It still does.
Speaker 2: In your piece, you talk about the special relationship of
Speaker 2: grandparents and that you never really knew your grandparents. Now,
Speaker 2: your mother died when Cleo was only one, so she
Speaker 2: never got to have that full experience of a grandmother
Speaker 2: through your side. But Cleo and your mother have a bond.
Speaker 2: What did you notice in those early days after your
Speaker 2: mother died.
Speaker 4: It was so bizarre because Mum gave Cleo a little
Speaker 4: teddy bear that she calls Nanny Waters. I've always said
Speaker 4: Nanny Waters this with you. You know, put the teddy
Speaker 4: in the cot And there was a day when I
Speaker 4: was feeding her and it was after Mum died, and
Speaker 4: I don't know this amazing feeling. Cleo just looked at
Speaker 4: me and I just knew Mum had gone into Cleo,
Speaker 4: not as in possessed her or anything, but just like
Speaker 4: had gone into and was going to come out through
Speaker 4: Cleo all her life. I knew that Mum would be there.
Speaker 4: It was really spiritual, very special.
Speaker 2: What are some of the signs that you've seen that
Speaker 2: part of her spirit is in Cleo.
Speaker 4: When she was little in the cot, she would giggle
Speaker 4: and laugh and I just knew someone was in there
Speaker 4: playing with her, and I just knew it was Mum.
Speaker 4: As she got older, her little teddy, Nanny Waters when
Speaker 4: everywhere with her. Still as an adult, Nanny Waters goes
Speaker 4: everywhere with her. Cleo talks about her as if she's here.
Speaker 4: She has this really strong connection with her. It's quite bizarre.
Speaker 4: Cleo has her own podcast and she talks about it
Speaker 4: in depth on that she's her guardian angel. She talks
Speaker 4: to her all the time.
Speaker 2: Can you take me back to the day that you
Speaker 2: found out that you were going to be a grandmother,
Speaker 2: and there is a TikTok video that has almost thirty
Speaker 2: million views. Can you explain what happens in that video
Speaker 2: and then how you felt when you found out.
Speaker 4: It's pretty crazy. So Cleo and Luke, her husband, came around.
Speaker 4: We were all there. We were going out for my
Speaker 4: husband's birthday, so everyone was giving gifts anyway. So Cleo
Speaker 4: gave a gift to my husband and it was a
Speaker 4: onesie and straight away me and my son and son's
Speaker 4: girlfriend we all knew that meant Cleo was pregnant. My
Speaker 4: husband picked it up and thought it was for the
Speaker 4: dog and was, oh my god, it's for crumpet. In
Speaker 4: the video, you can see me and my son, who
Speaker 4: keeps swearing all the way through it, just going oh
Speaker 4: my god, oh my god. Only they're not the words
Speaker 4: my son uses. There's a lot of swearing we all know,
Speaker 4: and my husband doesn't know. And then when he finally
Speaker 4: clocks on, he turns to Luke who's holding the camera,
Speaker 4: and just rushes towards him to hugin, which is just gorgeous.
Speaker 4: It's just hilarious and funny. We didn't think anyone else
Speaker 4: would find it funny, but.
Speaker 2: Obviously thirty million people did.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you feel when you at that moment?
Speaker 2: Because Cleo leans forward to you. It seems like you
Speaker 2: have such a special bond with Cleo that, Yeah, she
Speaker 2: just needed you to know that information. And it had
Speaker 2: been so long that she'd been holding off telling you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was only like a matter of weeks.
Speaker 4: But she was so ill. And she turns to me
Speaker 4: and she just says, Oh, I've been so sick, and
Speaker 4: starts crying, and I'm crying. We're all just crying and screaming. Really,
Speaker 4: but we are. Cleo and I are very close. I
Speaker 4: would say she's probably my best friend, and I feel
Speaker 4: like that is through Mum being such a huge part
Speaker 4: of her.
Speaker 2: Social Media tells only one side of the story. But
Speaker 2: from the outside, it seems like you have one of
Speaker 2: those magic families, you know, the families that you look
Speaker 2: at you go surely you don't all get along, Surely
Speaker 2: it's not also beautiful and shiny all the time. But
Speaker 2: from the outside, that is what it looks like. And
Speaker 2: I know that you have such a beautiful story of
Speaker 2: how you even met your husband. Yeah, So there seems
Speaker 2: to be like there's a little bit of magic in
Speaker 2: your family.
Speaker 4: I like to think so. I mean, we obviously every
Speaker 4: now and then you get shitty with each other. Everyone does,
Speaker 4: Everyone niggles each other, but we all have a very
Speaker 4: stupid sense of humor, and I think that really binds
Speaker 4: us all. And we've been so lucky with our children's
Speaker 4: partners that they get us. I don't know, we just
Speaker 4: we get along. We like each other, and yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4: Like I met my husband when I was nine. He
Speaker 4: was my brother's best friend, which is just bizarre, and
Speaker 4: ended up marrying him. Yeah, We've had lots of hard things,
Speaker 4: like my mum dying when I was young, but you know,
Speaker 4: I have been blessed with my kids and what's happening now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cleo had quite a clear birth plan and a
Speaker 2: clear manifestation of what she wanted, and you're right about that.
Speaker 2: In your little love story said that she did it
Speaker 2: better than you did. Can you tell me what you
Speaker 2: would have changed about your own births based on what
Speaker 2: Cleo did.
Speaker 4: I think we just weren't so aware of what we
Speaker 4: could do and the birth that I had, but clear
Speaker 4: was still great and amazing and I got to do
Speaker 4: a lot of what I wanted to do, but she
Speaker 4: just took control of it, and she had a dueler
Speaker 4: and she had prepared. I didn't know about all these
Speaker 4: breathing techniques, and she didn't even have any medication. But
Speaker 4: I was like, yes, give me the Meathodene, is there more?
Speaker 4: Can I have another hit? Please? Where's the gas? If
Speaker 4: I'd known and been in more control, I think it
Speaker 4: would have been more spiritual and beautiful like Cleo's was.
Speaker 2: Can you talk me through the first time that you
Speaker 2: saw Indigo and then also seeing your baby with a baby.
Speaker 4: Oh, now a mum, seriously, Grace. I did not expect it.
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm so excited, can't wait to get
Speaker 4: in there. I just want to meet in to go, oh,
Speaker 4: how beautiful, you know, like when in the hospital room
Speaker 4: and to see my daughter holding a baby, I just
Speaker 4: lost it. I didn't even look at India. I just
Speaker 4: went straight for Cleo and just hugged her and cried.
Speaker 4: It was just oh my god, my little girl is
Speaker 4: now a mother, and it was just amazing, just amazing.
Speaker 4: And then obviously I looked at India and then fell
Speaker 4: in love with her. But just seeing Clee, oh, I
Speaker 4: don't know. It just plew me away.
Speaker 2: You said that it's deepened your love for Cleo.
Speaker 4: What do you think that is? I don't know. I
Speaker 4: think seeing her as a mother, seeing how beautiful she
Speaker 4: is with Indy, seeing how much Loop loves her, and
Speaker 4: how beautiful they are together, and just I just see
Speaker 4: her on a different level. She gets me. She's said
Speaker 4: to me so many times since Indigo was born. I
Speaker 4: get it now. So because I used to say to her,
Speaker 4: you will never love anyone the way that I love you, Clee.
Speaker 4: The mother's love for a child is just phenomenal. The
Speaker 4: umbilical cordin never breaks. I've always known when Cleo's upset
Speaker 4: or Joey, my son. I know when there's something wrong
Speaker 4: because I feel it in my gup. I know it
Speaker 4: before they ring me. And I've said that to her
Speaker 4: so many times, and she's like, no, no, Mommy, don't.
Speaker 4: She was worried that she wouldn't have enough love for
Speaker 4: Indigo because she loved the dog so much. And I'm like,
Speaker 4: trust me, And now she says to me, oh, I
Speaker 4: get it, I get it now.
Speaker 2: Is that love instant? When they've popped on your check?
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's not because sometimes it's such a shock. I
Speaker 4: think for me with Joey it was maybe a day.
Speaker 4: His birth was really difficult, and I think every birth
Speaker 4: is difficult. And that's the thing. When it's really difficult
Speaker 4: and painful, you've gone through some hard stuff. Sometimes you're
Speaker 4: just so exhausted and you just can't feel. And you
Speaker 4: shouldn't feel guilty for that either, because every birth is
Speaker 4: different and your body goes through a massive trauma having
Speaker 4: a baby. The love you feel for a child is
Speaker 4: just overwhelming. I would kill I would kill people to
Speaker 4: keep them safe. It's not even a question. If my
Speaker 4: child was threatened in any way, I would die for them.
Speaker 4: You actually would.
Speaker 2: What is the difference between the love that you feel
Speaker 2: for Indigo and being a grandmother. What are the instincts
Speaker 2: that take over in that situation.
Speaker 4: So I thought being a grandmother was like, oh god,
Speaker 4: I'm going to be granny. You know, I'm going to
Speaker 4: be old. It's going to make me old. Totally the opposite.
Speaker 4: I thought I was going to be very nervous, you know,
Speaker 4: looking after a child that wasn't mine. I don't feel
Speaker 4: that at all. I feel really confident and comfortable, and
Speaker 4: I feel younger. It's brought back memories that i'd forgotten
Speaker 4: of my two when they were younger. You're just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's right. That's how you put an appy on, or
Speaker 4: that's how you dress them in that outfit. It just
Speaker 4: comes back to you and makes me feel younger, which.
Speaker 2: You do talk about in the piece that you feel
Speaker 2: younger and you don't feel like that stereotypical grandmother. What
Speaker 2: do you feel like you've gained that has given you
Speaker 2: more energy, or more time or more I guess, just
Speaker 2: what have you gained by becoming a.
Speaker 4: Grandmother, patients? I think when I was a mother, it
Speaker 4: was like a hurry up beneath to get here because
Speaker 4: I had no help. I had no help. We moved
Speaker 4: into state as well, and my husband's parents were really elderly,
Speaker 4: and they died not long after when the kids were
Speaker 4: still quite young. So I was always on the computer,
Speaker 4: breastfeeding Cleo. I was trying to do a million things
Speaker 4: at once. Now, when Indigo comes over, like she's just gone,
Speaker 4: I just sit there, sit there and look at her toes,
Speaker 4: play with the little fingers and it's a little face
Speaker 4: and talk googo gago like sing nonsense. I just go
Speaker 4: that can all wait, got emails to answer, I need
Speaker 4: to phone so and so I'm just saying, eh, little
Speaker 4: wait because this time's so precious. In a blink of
Speaker 4: an eye, it's gone.
Speaker 2: Perspective is a wonderful thing. I want to acknowledge the
Speaker 2: grief that you felt in the moment that you're getting
Speaker 2: to share something with Cleo that you and your mum
Speaker 2: did and get to experience of all the little moments
Speaker 2: that you've got to have over these past few months.
Speaker 2: What are some things that you wish that you had
Speaker 2: with your mum?
Speaker 4: Oh so much. Cue the tears, Grace, I'm trying not
Speaker 4: to cry so I can talk properly. Oh, I missed
Speaker 4: out on so much because as soon as you have
Speaker 4: a baby, like I said about Cleo, you get it
Speaker 4: all of a sudden. It's like a light switch and
Speaker 4: you go, oh my god, Now I get what mum
Speaker 4: was on about all of a sudden. I had a
Speaker 4: different relationship with my mum, but she was going through chemo,
Speaker 4: so I couldn't share really anything with her. She couldn't
Speaker 4: enjoy Cleo as a baby. Just so much that you
Speaker 4: can ask people, you know, Cleo asks me how long
Speaker 4: did you breast people? How long did this hurt? Did
Speaker 4: that hurt? How long did it take for this that
Speaker 4: and the up it to happen? When did I get
Speaker 4: my first tooth? When did I sit up? I couldn't
Speaker 4: ask Mum any of that, and they didn't keep baby books,
Speaker 4: and my brothers wouldn't know, and dad's dad lost the
Speaker 4: plot when Mum died. He really just went into himself
Speaker 4: until he died himself. So I just I couldn't ask
Speaker 4: any of those things. You want to know, all those
Speaker 4: motherly things.
Speaker 2: Is that something that you're trying to do with Cleo
Speaker 2: now is to document, to share, to create a space
Speaker 2: that you wish that you have.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely take pictures, take videos. The photos I have
Speaker 4: of me and Mum are I was a baby and
Speaker 4: then maybe two when I was ten. None as an adult,
Speaker 4: because you are selfish when you're growing up and you're
Speaker 4: a teenager and you're in your twenties, you're just too
Speaker 4: selfish and you're not taking pictures with your parents, you're
Speaker 4: taking them with your friends. I don't have photos. I'm
Speaker 4: trying always to make sure that Cleo and I have
Speaker 4: photos as well, that I've got photos with India and videos.
Speaker 4: I don't have videos of Mum talking. I want to
Speaker 4: hear her voice again. You know, just so many things.
Speaker 2: There are four generations of women in this story, and
Speaker 2: you're right about that. And the piece by sharing what
Speaker 2: is quite a beautiful, actual scientific fact of how all
Speaker 2: connected you are. Could you share what that is and
Speaker 2: why you love that so much?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's amazing. So I might get this kind of wrong,
Speaker 4: but basically, when I gave birth to Cleo, she had
Speaker 4: all the eggs that she would have for her lifetime,
Speaker 4: so indigo was in her. So indigo was a part
Speaker 4: of me. It's like, what is that kind of mind blowing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy, it's so so crazy and sadly, as
Speaker 2: you said at the peaks, the men don't get that. No,
Speaker 2: not that they're not important, No, they just don't get
Speaker 2: that beautiful connection that women get.
Speaker 4: No, because the sperm is it takes to puberty, I
Speaker 4: think till they build their sperm, so it's not a
Speaker 4: part of them from when they're born, whereas with women,
Speaker 4: we're born with all the eggs that we will have,
Speaker 4: so they are a part of your mother already. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Another way that we end every little love Stories is
Speaker 2: that we ask what does love mean to you? And
Speaker 2: that can be just today, right now, in this second.
Speaker 2: But what comes to mind when I ask what does
Speaker 2: love mean to you?
Speaker 4: Family? It's just family. Like everyone else comes and goes,
Speaker 4: but family is always there. And the fact that even
Speaker 4: though I lost my mum, I so feel like she's
Speaker 4: still there and so does Cleo. Like, how amazing is that?
Speaker 4: It's beautiful?
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for sharing your little love story.
Speaker 2: That's all right, Thank you for listening to Little Love Stories.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to read Anna's full little Love story,
Speaker 2: you can go to the link in the show notes.
Speaker 2: Anna also has some very silly tiktoks and skits about menopause.
Speaker 2: If you would like to have a laugh, We've also
Speaker 2: popped a link to those in the show notes. If
Speaker 2: you have a story you want to tell, we'd love
Speaker 2: to hear it. We're always on the lookout for new
Speaker 2: stories and hearing from someone who has loved to give.
Speaker 2: If you want to get in touch, all the details
Speaker 2: are also in our show notes. Little Love Stories is
Speaker 2: produced by me Grace Ruverray with audio production by Lou Hill.
Speaker 2: If you're looking for something else to listen to, mma
Speaker 2: me who's presenting one hundred hours of summer listens from
Speaker 2: meaningful conversations, incredible stories, fashion, beauty, and a bit of silliness.
Speaker 2: There's a link to more things to listen to in
Speaker 2: the show notes.