1
00:00:21,610 --> 00:00:26,410
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

2
00:00:26,490 --> 00:00:29,330
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this

3
00:00:29,450 --> 00:00:33,570
Speaker 1: podcast on the Gatagul people of the Eora Nation. We

4
00:00:33,610 --> 00:00:36,730
Speaker 1: pay our respects to their elders past and present, and

5
00:00:36,850 --> 00:00:40,970
Speaker 1: extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander cultures.

6
00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:45,930
Speaker 2: Hi, it's Grace from this Glorious mess introducing hot Pod Summer.

7
00:00:46,090 --> 00:00:49,210
Speaker 2: It's one hundred hours of curated listening across the Mumma

8
00:00:49,250 --> 00:00:52,050
Speaker 2: mea network just for you to escape the chaos and

9
00:00:52,210 --> 00:00:54,770
Speaker 2: enjoy with the kids at home and the weather warming up.

10
00:00:54,970 --> 00:00:58,290
Speaker 2: We're gonna share some episodes of Little Love Stories. Little

11
00:00:58,330 --> 00:01:01,650
Speaker 2: Love Stories is an open hearted conversation with someone who

12
00:01:01,690 --> 00:01:04,170
Speaker 2: has loved to share that love can be anything, a

13
00:01:04,250 --> 00:01:07,170
Speaker 2: time in someone's life, a person, or even an object.

14
00:01:07,770 --> 00:01:10,770
Speaker 2: It's all about discovering the magic everywhere you look. So

15
00:01:10,850 --> 00:01:13,570
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy this episode of Little Love Stories.

16
00:01:16,450 --> 00:01:18,850
Speaker 3: I love you, how you live You.

17
00:01:21,250 --> 00:01:26,050
Speaker 2: Welcome to Little Love Stories. I'm Grace Rubrey. The moment

18
00:01:26,090 --> 00:01:30,330
Speaker 2: you become a parent is surreal looking down at this squishy,

19
00:01:30,490 --> 00:01:34,130
Speaker 2: slippery newborn on your chest, caught up in the whirlwind

20
00:01:34,290 --> 00:01:41,370
Speaker 2: of emotion that this is real, this actually happened. It's overwhelming, heartwarming,

21
00:01:41,810 --> 00:01:47,330
Speaker 2: and confusing all at once. But sometimes that beautiful early

22
00:01:47,410 --> 00:01:50,730
Speaker 2: bubble is also wrapped in pain, as it is for

23
00:01:50,770 --> 00:01:55,050
Speaker 2: today's guest, Anna waters Massy. At thirty, Anna became a

24
00:01:55,090 --> 00:01:58,490
Speaker 2: mother to her daughter, Cleo, and just a year later

25
00:01:58,690 --> 00:02:02,090
Speaker 2: she lost her own mother to cancer. Yet despite this

26
00:02:02,210 --> 00:02:07,210
Speaker 2: profound loss, Anna discovered something extraordinary in her bond with Cleo.

27
00:02:07,810 --> 00:02:12,450
Speaker 4: I don't know this amazing feeling. Cleo just looked at me,

28
00:02:12,610 --> 00:02:17,010
Speaker 4: and I just knew Mum had gone into Cleo, not

29
00:02:17,090 --> 00:02:20,370
Speaker 4: as impossessed her or anything, but had gone into and

30
00:02:20,370 --> 00:02:23,890
Speaker 4: we're going to come out through Cleo. All her life.

31
00:02:23,970 --> 00:02:25,290
Speaker 4: I knew that Mum would be there.

32
00:02:25,530 --> 00:02:29,210
Speaker 2: There's a rare, incredible connection some mothers and daughters share,

33
00:02:29,490 --> 00:02:32,410
Speaker 2: one that Anna and Cleo are lucky enough to experience.

34
00:02:32,810 --> 00:02:36,050
Speaker 2: Even though Cleia never met her grandmother, that love still

35
00:02:36,090 --> 00:02:39,930
Speaker 2: weaves through their relationship, tying generations together.

36
00:02:40,290 --> 00:02:43,410
Speaker 4: Cleo and I are very both. I would say she's

37
00:02:43,450 --> 00:02:46,410
Speaker 4: probably my best friend, and I feel like that is

38
00:02:46,490 --> 00:02:49,930
Speaker 4: through Mum being such a huge part of her.

39
00:02:50,370 --> 00:02:54,450
Speaker 2: And then another bond forms, one that strengthens even further

40
00:02:54,610 --> 00:02:57,810
Speaker 2: when a new life enters the world. The day Anna

41
00:02:57,890 --> 00:03:01,970
Speaker 2: became a grandmother and Cleo welcomed her daughter, Indigo, a

42
00:03:02,010 --> 00:03:04,370
Speaker 2: new chapter of their shared journey began.

43
00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:09,610
Speaker 4: When in the hospital room and to see my daughter

44
00:03:10,690 --> 00:03:14,170
Speaker 4: holding a baby, I just lost it.

45
00:03:15,010 --> 00:03:17,890
Speaker 2: This is a story of four generations of women and

46
00:03:17,930 --> 00:03:20,410
Speaker 2: the connection they have to each other. But before we

47
00:03:20,450 --> 00:03:22,570
Speaker 2: get there, I asked some of the parents at the

48
00:03:22,610 --> 00:03:25,010
Speaker 2: Mum of Mea office what it felt like the day

49
00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:26,130
Speaker 2: they became a parent.

50
00:03:27,770 --> 00:03:31,930
Speaker 3: I vividly remember when I gave birth to my first

51
00:03:32,090 --> 00:03:35,850
Speaker 3: They plunked him on my chest. People talk about oh

52
00:03:35,890 --> 00:03:39,730
Speaker 3: my god, instant love. I was just like, oh my god,

53
00:03:39,810 --> 00:03:43,530
Speaker 3: what is this like. It took my brain time to

54
00:03:43,650 --> 00:03:46,850
Speaker 3: process that this thing that had been growing inside me

55
00:03:47,570 --> 00:03:51,330
Speaker 3: that was now this like red, little naked ball of

56
00:03:51,450 --> 00:03:54,770
Speaker 3: human was actually my child. And I just remember that

57
00:03:54,850 --> 00:03:57,810
Speaker 3: being my first memory, like, oh my god. It was

58
00:03:57,810 --> 00:04:01,450
Speaker 3: almost like shock. Honestly, it is hard to put into

59
00:04:01,490 --> 00:04:03,730
Speaker 3: words what I felt when I first saw my child

60
00:04:03,810 --> 00:04:04,730
Speaker 3: for the first time.

61
00:04:05,090 --> 00:04:07,970
Speaker 1: I remember having warm tingles all throughout my body.

62
00:04:08,010 --> 00:04:11,090
Speaker 2: I was smiling like crazy, and I kept.

63
00:04:10,970 --> 00:04:14,690
Speaker 1: Thinking to myself, Wow, this little boy, he's my son.

64
00:04:15,850 --> 00:04:18,570
Speaker 5: Not really about my baby, but my moment of realization

65
00:04:18,810 --> 00:04:22,410
Speaker 5: was when I accident did a shit in the shower

66
00:04:22,570 --> 00:04:25,810
Speaker 5: while on the eapy dural and then squished it down

67
00:04:25,890 --> 00:04:29,370
Speaker 5: the drain before the midwife saw it because I didn't

68
00:04:29,370 --> 00:04:30,650
Speaker 5: want her to have to clean it.

69
00:04:31,250 --> 00:04:34,730
Speaker 6: Aside from my husband's sister posting our hospital room pick

70
00:04:34,770 --> 00:04:37,410
Speaker 6: that we privately shared to our family on Facebook, the

71
00:04:37,530 --> 00:04:40,250
Speaker 6: most pivotal memory from the day I first became a

72
00:04:40,290 --> 00:04:44,850
Speaker 6: parent would have to be when the nurse set that weird, squishy,

73
00:04:45,170 --> 00:04:48,130
Speaker 6: covered in gross stuff baby on my chest, and I

74
00:04:48,170 --> 00:04:52,450
Speaker 6: just remember thinking, Holy, look what I made. And then

75
00:04:52,490 --> 00:04:55,610
Speaker 6: that was very closely followed by oh my God, what

76
00:04:55,770 --> 00:04:59,370
Speaker 6: do I do now? And then realizing that everything would

77
00:04:59,410 --> 00:05:00,490
Speaker 6: be different from that point on.

78
00:05:01,170 --> 00:05:04,570
Speaker 4: My heart cracked open. It's an indescribable feeling.

79
00:05:05,490 --> 00:05:08,130
Speaker 2: One moment, we were two, the next week were three.

80
00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:12,530
Speaker 7: All my children were born very prematurely, but I remember

81
00:05:12,970 --> 00:05:16,210
Speaker 7: very clearly with my eldest boy that after seventy two

82
00:05:16,250 --> 00:05:19,210
Speaker 7: hour labor, I was holding him in my arms, just

83
00:05:19,290 --> 00:05:24,130
Speaker 7: before he was taken off to Nikou, and his eyes

84
00:05:24,250 --> 00:05:28,810
Speaker 7: were wide open. He was so alert, and he was

85
00:05:28,850 --> 00:05:32,210
Speaker 7: just staring up at me as if to say, who

86
00:05:32,570 --> 00:05:35,850
Speaker 7: on earth are you? And what on Earth is going on,

87
00:05:36,370 --> 00:05:40,170
Speaker 7: And that's the moment that I realized I was actually

88
00:05:40,250 --> 00:05:42,570
Speaker 7: a mum.

89
00:05:42,690 --> 00:05:45,130
Speaker 2: Anna, can you tell me what you remember the most

90
00:05:45,210 --> 00:05:47,130
Speaker 2: about the day that you became a mother?

91
00:05:47,770 --> 00:05:52,810
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it was long, It was tedious. When

92
00:05:52,930 --> 00:05:57,170
Speaker 4: Cleo came out, I just actually could not believe that

93
00:05:57,330 --> 00:05:59,410
Speaker 4: I made a person. I knew I was going to

94
00:05:59,450 --> 00:06:02,690
Speaker 4: have a baby, but until I looked at her and went,

95
00:06:03,130 --> 00:06:07,810
Speaker 4: oh my god, like it's actually a real baby, it

96
00:06:07,930 --> 00:06:11,370
Speaker 4: just blew me away. It was like freaking amazing. It

97
00:06:11,490 --> 00:06:14,650
Speaker 4: is the biggest miracle in the world. It really is.

98
00:06:15,090 --> 00:06:16,490
Speaker 2: Our bodies are fascinating.

99
00:06:16,730 --> 00:06:19,290
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you just make them, like you just make

100
00:06:19,370 --> 00:06:22,850
Speaker 4: another person. That just blows me away. It still does.

101
00:06:23,250 --> 00:06:26,490
Speaker 2: In your piece, you talk about the special relationship of

102
00:06:26,610 --> 00:06:30,410
Speaker 2: grandparents and that you never really knew your grandparents. Now,

103
00:06:31,010 --> 00:06:33,650
Speaker 2: your mother died when Cleo was only one, so she

104
00:06:33,730 --> 00:06:36,370
Speaker 2: never got to have that full experience of a grandmother

105
00:06:36,850 --> 00:06:40,610
Speaker 2: through your side. But Cleo and your mother have a bond.

106
00:06:41,050 --> 00:06:43,530
Speaker 2: What did you notice in those early days after your

107
00:06:43,530 --> 00:06:44,090
Speaker 2: mother died.

108
00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:47,850
Speaker 4: It was so bizarre because Mum gave Cleo a little

109
00:06:47,850 --> 00:06:51,330
Speaker 4: teddy bear that she calls Nanny Waters. I've always said

110
00:06:51,410 --> 00:06:53,530
Speaker 4: Nanny Waters this with you. You know, put the teddy

111
00:06:53,610 --> 00:06:56,850
Speaker 4: in the cot And there was a day when I

112
00:06:56,970 --> 00:07:00,530
Speaker 4: was feeding her and it was after Mum died, and

113
00:07:01,370 --> 00:07:06,290
Speaker 4: I don't know this amazing feeling. Cleo just looked at

114
00:07:06,330 --> 00:07:10,570
Speaker 4: me and I just knew Mum had gone into Cleo,

115
00:07:10,810 --> 00:07:13,290
Speaker 4: not as in possessed her or anything, but just like

116
00:07:13,810 --> 00:07:17,770
Speaker 4: had gone into and was going to come out through

117
00:07:17,850 --> 00:07:20,370
Speaker 4: Cleo all her life. I knew that Mum would be there.

118
00:07:21,130 --> 00:07:23,250
Speaker 4: It was really spiritual, very special.

119
00:07:24,250 --> 00:07:26,250
Speaker 2: What are some of the signs that you've seen that

120
00:07:26,410 --> 00:07:28,250
Speaker 2: part of her spirit is in Cleo.

121
00:07:28,850 --> 00:07:32,410
Speaker 4: When she was little in the cot, she would giggle

122
00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:35,810
Speaker 4: and laugh and I just knew someone was in there

123
00:07:35,810 --> 00:07:37,730
Speaker 4: playing with her, and I just knew it was Mum.

124
00:07:38,410 --> 00:07:41,730
Speaker 4: As she got older, her little teddy, Nanny Waters when

125
00:07:41,810 --> 00:07:45,570
Speaker 4: everywhere with her. Still as an adult, Nanny Waters goes

126
00:07:45,610 --> 00:07:50,010
Speaker 4: everywhere with her. Cleo talks about her as if she's here.

127
00:07:50,450 --> 00:07:55,490
Speaker 4: She has this really strong connection with her. It's quite bizarre.

128
00:07:55,530 --> 00:07:58,250
Speaker 4: Cleo has her own podcast and she talks about it

129
00:07:58,330 --> 00:08:01,930
Speaker 4: in depth on that she's her guardian angel. She talks

130
00:08:01,970 --> 00:08:02,930
Speaker 4: to her all the time.

131
00:08:03,410 --> 00:08:05,290
Speaker 2: Can you take me back to the day that you

132
00:08:05,410 --> 00:08:07,290
Speaker 2: found out that you were going to be a grandmother,

133
00:08:07,450 --> 00:08:10,170
Speaker 2: and there is a TikTok video that has almost thirty

134
00:08:10,410 --> 00:08:15,090
Speaker 2: million views. Can you explain what happens in that video

135
00:08:15,210 --> 00:08:17,290
Speaker 2: and then how you felt when you found out.

136
00:08:17,650 --> 00:08:21,890
Speaker 4: It's pretty crazy. So Cleo and Luke, her husband, came around.

137
00:08:22,530 --> 00:08:23,930
Speaker 4: We were all there. We were going out for my

138
00:08:24,010 --> 00:08:28,250
Speaker 4: husband's birthday, so everyone was giving gifts anyway. So Cleo

139
00:08:28,410 --> 00:08:31,250
Speaker 4: gave a gift to my husband and it was a

140
00:08:31,250 --> 00:08:37,970
Speaker 4: onesie and straight away me and my son and son's

141
00:08:38,010 --> 00:08:41,210
Speaker 4: girlfriend we all knew that meant Cleo was pregnant. My

142
00:08:41,290 --> 00:08:44,090
Speaker 4: husband picked it up and thought it was for the

143
00:08:44,130 --> 00:08:49,130
Speaker 4: dog and was, oh my god, it's for crumpet. In

144
00:08:49,170 --> 00:08:52,970
Speaker 4: the video, you can see me and my son, who

145
00:08:53,050 --> 00:08:55,370
Speaker 4: keeps swearing all the way through it, just going oh

146
00:08:55,410 --> 00:08:57,450
Speaker 4: my god, oh my god. Only they're not the words

147
00:08:57,490 --> 00:09:00,970
Speaker 4: my son uses. There's a lot of swearing we all know,

148
00:09:01,370 --> 00:09:03,610
Speaker 4: and my husband doesn't know. And then when he finally

149
00:09:03,690 --> 00:09:06,130
Speaker 4: clocks on, he turns to Luke who's holding the camera,

150
00:09:06,210 --> 00:09:10,010
Speaker 4: and just rushes towards him to hugin, which is just gorgeous.

151
00:09:10,410 --> 00:09:13,690
Speaker 4: It's just hilarious and funny. We didn't think anyone else

152
00:09:13,690 --> 00:09:14,890
Speaker 4: would find it funny, but.

153
00:09:15,410 --> 00:09:18,930
Speaker 2: Obviously thirty million people did.

154
00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:19,570
Speaker 4: Yeah.

155
00:09:19,730 --> 00:09:22,770
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you feel when you at that moment?

156
00:09:22,810 --> 00:09:26,330
Speaker 2: Because Cleo leans forward to you. It seems like you

157
00:09:26,370 --> 00:09:29,170
Speaker 2: have such a special bond with Cleo that, Yeah, she

158
00:09:29,290 --> 00:09:31,130
Speaker 2: just needed you to know that information. And it had

159
00:09:31,170 --> 00:09:33,130
Speaker 2: been so long that she'd been holding off telling you.

160
00:09:33,250 --> 00:09:35,890
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was only like a matter of weeks.

161
00:09:36,170 --> 00:09:38,570
Speaker 4: But she was so ill. And she turns to me

162
00:09:38,610 --> 00:09:41,450
Speaker 4: and she just says, Oh, I've been so sick, and

163
00:09:41,650 --> 00:09:46,530
Speaker 4: starts crying, and I'm crying. We're all just crying and screaming. Really,

164
00:09:46,690 --> 00:09:50,930
Speaker 4: but we are. Cleo and I are very close. I

165
00:09:50,970 --> 00:09:53,890
Speaker 4: would say she's probably my best friend, and I feel

166
00:09:53,930 --> 00:09:57,850
Speaker 4: like that is through Mum being such a huge part

167
00:09:57,890 --> 00:10:02,250
Speaker 4: of her.

168
00:10:03,250 --> 00:10:05,850
Speaker 2: Social Media tells only one side of the story. But

169
00:10:06,210 --> 00:10:08,010
Speaker 2: from the outside, it seems like you have one of

170
00:10:08,050 --> 00:10:10,570
Speaker 2: those magic families, you know, the families that you look

171
00:10:10,610 --> 00:10:13,450
Speaker 2: at you go surely you don't all get along, Surely

172
00:10:13,530 --> 00:10:16,410
Speaker 2: it's not also beautiful and shiny all the time. But

173
00:10:16,730 --> 00:10:18,810
Speaker 2: from the outside, that is what it looks like. And

174
00:10:18,850 --> 00:10:21,170
Speaker 2: I know that you have such a beautiful story of

175
00:10:21,210 --> 00:10:24,370
Speaker 2: how you even met your husband. Yeah, So there seems

176
00:10:24,370 --> 00:10:25,970
Speaker 2: to be like there's a little bit of magic in

177
00:10:26,010 --> 00:10:26,570
Speaker 2: your family.

178
00:10:26,890 --> 00:10:30,130
Speaker 4: I like to think so. I mean, we obviously every

179
00:10:30,210 --> 00:10:32,850
Speaker 4: now and then you get shitty with each other. Everyone does,

180
00:10:32,890 --> 00:10:36,970
Speaker 4: Everyone niggles each other, but we all have a very

181
00:10:37,010 --> 00:10:42,890
Speaker 4: stupid sense of humor, and I think that really binds

182
00:10:42,970 --> 00:10:45,970
Speaker 4: us all. And we've been so lucky with our children's

183
00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:51,210
Speaker 4: partners that they get us. I don't know, we just

184
00:10:51,450 --> 00:10:55,450
Speaker 4: we get along. We like each other, and yeah, you're right.

185
00:10:55,490 --> 00:10:58,090
Speaker 4: Like I met my husband when I was nine. He

186
00:10:58,250 --> 00:11:01,850
Speaker 4: was my brother's best friend, which is just bizarre, and

187
00:11:02,010 --> 00:11:05,570
Speaker 4: ended up marrying him. Yeah, We've had lots of hard things,

188
00:11:05,610 --> 00:11:08,050
Speaker 4: like my mum dying when I was young, but you know,

189
00:11:08,170 --> 00:11:11,890
Speaker 4: I have been blessed with my kids and what's happening now.

190
00:11:12,090 --> 00:11:15,890
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cleo had quite a clear birth plan and a

191
00:11:15,970 --> 00:11:18,970
Speaker 2: clear manifestation of what she wanted, and you're right about that.

192
00:11:19,010 --> 00:11:21,930
Speaker 2: In your little love story said that she did it

193
00:11:21,970 --> 00:11:24,130
Speaker 2: better than you did. Can you tell me what you

194
00:11:24,130 --> 00:11:26,490
Speaker 2: would have changed about your own births based on what

195
00:11:26,650 --> 00:11:27,210
Speaker 2: Cleo did.

196
00:11:27,530 --> 00:11:30,690
Speaker 4: I think we just weren't so aware of what we

197
00:11:30,730 --> 00:11:34,850
Speaker 4: could do and the birth that I had, but clear

198
00:11:35,090 --> 00:11:37,770
Speaker 4: was still great and amazing and I got to do

199
00:11:37,810 --> 00:11:40,490
Speaker 4: a lot of what I wanted to do, but she

200
00:11:40,730 --> 00:11:43,330
Speaker 4: just took control of it, and she had a dueler

201
00:11:43,490 --> 00:11:46,850
Speaker 4: and she had prepared. I didn't know about all these

202
00:11:46,930 --> 00:11:51,450
Speaker 4: breathing techniques, and she didn't even have any medication. But

203
00:11:51,730 --> 00:11:54,530
Speaker 4: I was like, yes, give me the Meathodene, is there more?

204
00:11:54,970 --> 00:11:57,970
Speaker 4: Can I have another hit? Please? Where's the gas? If

205
00:11:58,010 --> 00:12:01,130
Speaker 4: I'd known and been in more control, I think it

206
00:12:01,170 --> 00:12:05,090
Speaker 4: would have been more spiritual and beautiful like Cleo's was.

207
00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:08,210
Speaker 2: Can you talk me through the first time that you

208
00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:12,610
Speaker 2: saw Indigo and then also seeing your baby with a baby.

209
00:12:12,770 --> 00:12:18,570
Speaker 4: Oh, now a mum, seriously, Grace. I did not expect it.

210
00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:21,250
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm so excited, can't wait to get

211
00:12:21,250 --> 00:12:23,530
Speaker 4: in there. I just want to meet in to go, oh,

212
00:12:23,650 --> 00:12:27,130
Speaker 4: how beautiful, you know, like when in the hospital room

213
00:12:28,170 --> 00:12:34,850
Speaker 4: and to see my daughter holding a baby, I just

214
00:12:34,970 --> 00:12:38,810
Speaker 4: lost it. I didn't even look at India. I just

215
00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:41,610
Speaker 4: went straight for Cleo and just hugged her and cried.

216
00:12:41,650 --> 00:12:45,250
Speaker 4: It was just oh my god, my little girl is

217
00:12:45,290 --> 00:12:50,330
Speaker 4: now a mother, and it was just amazing, just amazing.

218
00:12:50,370 --> 00:12:53,410
Speaker 4: And then obviously I looked at India and then fell

219
00:12:53,450 --> 00:12:57,930
Speaker 4: in love with her. But just seeing Clee, oh, I

220
00:12:57,970 --> 00:12:59,410
Speaker 4: don't know. It just plew me away.

221
00:13:01,450 --> 00:13:03,530
Speaker 2: You said that it's deepened your love for Cleo.

222
00:13:03,690 --> 00:13:07,610
Speaker 4: What do you think that is? I don't know. I

223
00:13:07,650 --> 00:13:13,730
Speaker 4: think seeing her as a mother, seeing how beautiful she

224
00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:17,930
Speaker 4: is with Indy, seeing how much Loop loves her, and

225
00:13:17,970 --> 00:13:21,770
Speaker 4: how beautiful they are together, and just I just see

226
00:13:21,810 --> 00:13:25,370
Speaker 4: her on a different level. She gets me. She's said

227
00:13:25,370 --> 00:13:28,210
Speaker 4: to me so many times since Indigo was born. I

228
00:13:28,330 --> 00:13:31,970
Speaker 4: get it now. So because I used to say to her,

229
00:13:33,090 --> 00:13:36,330
Speaker 4: you will never love anyone the way that I love you, Clee.

230
00:13:36,690 --> 00:13:40,810
Speaker 4: The mother's love for a child is just phenomenal. The

231
00:13:40,930 --> 00:13:45,970
Speaker 4: umbilical cordin never breaks. I've always known when Cleo's upset

232
00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:48,610
Speaker 4: or Joey, my son. I know when there's something wrong

233
00:13:48,690 --> 00:13:50,570
Speaker 4: because I feel it in my gup. I know it

234
00:13:50,850 --> 00:13:54,210
Speaker 4: before they ring me. And I've said that to her

235
00:13:54,250 --> 00:13:57,530
Speaker 4: so many times, and she's like, no, no, Mommy, don't.

236
00:13:57,850 --> 00:14:00,890
Speaker 4: She was worried that she wouldn't have enough love for

237
00:14:01,010 --> 00:14:04,810
Speaker 4: Indigo because she loved the dog so much. And I'm like,

238
00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:07,810
Speaker 4: trust me, And now she says to me, oh, I

239
00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:09,210
Speaker 4: get it, I get it now.

240
00:14:18,050 --> 00:14:20,570
Speaker 2: Is that love instant? When they've popped on your check?

241
00:14:22,010 --> 00:14:26,810
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's not because sometimes it's such a shock. I

242
00:14:26,850 --> 00:14:30,970
Speaker 4: think for me with Joey it was maybe a day.

243
00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:34,850
Speaker 4: His birth was really difficult, and I think every birth

244
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:38,450
Speaker 4: is difficult. And that's the thing. When it's really difficult

245
00:14:38,490 --> 00:14:42,570
Speaker 4: and painful, you've gone through some hard stuff. Sometimes you're

246
00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:46,170
Speaker 4: just so exhausted and you just can't feel. And you

247
00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:50,690
Speaker 4: shouldn't feel guilty for that either, because every birth is

248
00:14:50,730 --> 00:14:55,970
Speaker 4: different and your body goes through a massive trauma having

249
00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:58,770
Speaker 4: a baby. The love you feel for a child is

250
00:14:58,890 --> 00:15:03,290
Speaker 4: just overwhelming. I would kill I would kill people to

251
00:15:03,410 --> 00:15:05,730
Speaker 4: keep them safe. It's not even a question. If my

252
00:15:06,010 --> 00:15:10,610
Speaker 4: child was threatened in any way, I would die for them.

253
00:15:11,130 --> 00:15:12,370
Speaker 4: You actually would.

254
00:15:13,090 --> 00:15:15,490
Speaker 2: What is the difference between the love that you feel

255
00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:19,250
Speaker 2: for Indigo and being a grandmother. What are the instincts

256
00:15:19,290 --> 00:15:21,570
Speaker 2: that take over in that situation.

257
00:15:22,290 --> 00:15:25,450
Speaker 4: So I thought being a grandmother was like, oh god,

258
00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:27,970
Speaker 4: I'm going to be granny. You know, I'm going to

259
00:15:27,970 --> 00:15:31,530
Speaker 4: be old. It's going to make me old. Totally the opposite.

260
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:34,170
Speaker 4: I thought I was going to be very nervous, you know,

261
00:15:34,330 --> 00:15:37,250
Speaker 4: looking after a child that wasn't mine. I don't feel

262
00:15:37,250 --> 00:15:42,210
Speaker 4: that at all. I feel really confident and comfortable, and

263
00:15:42,250 --> 00:15:46,010
Speaker 4: I feel younger. It's brought back memories that i'd forgotten

264
00:15:46,570 --> 00:15:49,970
Speaker 4: of my two when they were younger. You're just like, oh, yeah,

265
00:15:50,010 --> 00:15:52,130
Speaker 4: that's right. That's how you put an appy on, or

266
00:15:52,170 --> 00:15:55,290
Speaker 4: that's how you dress them in that outfit. It just

267
00:15:55,650 --> 00:16:00,130
Speaker 4: comes back to you and makes me feel younger, which.

268
00:15:59,890 --> 00:16:01,890
Speaker 2: You do talk about in the piece that you feel

269
00:16:01,890 --> 00:16:05,410
Speaker 2: younger and you don't feel like that stereotypical grandmother. What

270
00:16:05,530 --> 00:16:09,250
Speaker 2: do you feel like you've gained that has given you

271
00:16:09,290 --> 00:16:12,930
Speaker 2: more energy, or more time or more I guess, just

272
00:16:12,930 --> 00:16:14,370
Speaker 2: what have you gained by becoming a.

273
00:16:14,370 --> 00:16:18,090
Speaker 4: Grandmother, patients? I think when I was a mother, it

274
00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:21,730
Speaker 4: was like a hurry up beneath to get here because

275
00:16:21,770 --> 00:16:25,090
Speaker 4: I had no help. I had no help. We moved

276
00:16:25,130 --> 00:16:28,690
Speaker 4: into state as well, and my husband's parents were really elderly,

277
00:16:28,770 --> 00:16:31,050
Speaker 4: and they died not long after when the kids were

278
00:16:31,170 --> 00:16:35,050
Speaker 4: still quite young. So I was always on the computer,

279
00:16:35,290 --> 00:16:38,570
Speaker 4: breastfeeding Cleo. I was trying to do a million things

280
00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:43,130
Speaker 4: at once. Now, when Indigo comes over, like she's just gone,

281
00:16:43,530 --> 00:16:46,370
Speaker 4: I just sit there, sit there and look at her toes,

282
00:16:46,970 --> 00:16:50,250
Speaker 4: play with the little fingers and it's a little face

283
00:16:50,450 --> 00:16:57,370
Speaker 4: and talk googo gago like sing nonsense. I just go

284
00:16:57,650 --> 00:17:00,970
Speaker 4: that can all wait, got emails to answer, I need

285
00:17:01,010 --> 00:17:03,610
Speaker 4: to phone so and so I'm just saying, eh, little

286
00:17:03,610 --> 00:17:07,410
Speaker 4: wait because this time's so precious. In a blink of

287
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:09,450
Speaker 4: an eye, it's gone.

288
00:17:09,690 --> 00:17:13,890
Speaker 2: Perspective is a wonderful thing. I want to acknowledge the

289
00:17:13,930 --> 00:17:17,410
Speaker 2: grief that you felt in the moment that you're getting

290
00:17:17,410 --> 00:17:20,450
Speaker 2: to share something with Cleo that you and your mum

291
00:17:20,450 --> 00:17:23,450
Speaker 2: did and get to experience of all the little moments

292
00:17:23,450 --> 00:17:25,650
Speaker 2: that you've got to have over these past few months.

293
00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:28,090
Speaker 2: What are some things that you wish that you had

294
00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:28,650
Speaker 2: with your mum?

295
00:17:29,090 --> 00:17:35,010
Speaker 4: Oh so much. Cue the tears, Grace, I'm trying not

296
00:17:35,130 --> 00:17:40,690
Speaker 4: to cry so I can talk properly. Oh, I missed

297
00:17:40,690 --> 00:17:43,530
Speaker 4: out on so much because as soon as you have

298
00:17:43,610 --> 00:17:47,530
Speaker 4: a baby, like I said about Cleo, you get it

299
00:17:47,850 --> 00:17:49,690
Speaker 4: all of a sudden. It's like a light switch and

300
00:17:49,690 --> 00:17:52,250
Speaker 4: you go, oh my god, Now I get what mum

301
00:17:52,370 --> 00:17:54,970
Speaker 4: was on about all of a sudden. I had a

302
00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:59,370
Speaker 4: different relationship with my mum, but she was going through chemo,

303
00:17:59,450 --> 00:18:06,010
Speaker 4: so I couldn't share really anything with her. She couldn't

304
00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:10,050
Speaker 4: enjoy Cleo as a baby. Just so much that you

305
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:13,050
Speaker 4: can ask people, you know, Cleo asks me how long

306
00:18:13,090 --> 00:18:15,570
Speaker 4: did you breast people? How long did this hurt? Did

307
00:18:15,610 --> 00:18:17,450
Speaker 4: that hurt? How long did it take for this that

308
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:19,530
Speaker 4: and the up it to happen? When did I get

309
00:18:19,530 --> 00:18:22,130
Speaker 4: my first tooth? When did I sit up? I couldn't

310
00:18:22,170 --> 00:18:25,930
Speaker 4: ask Mum any of that, and they didn't keep baby books,

311
00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:32,610
Speaker 4: and my brothers wouldn't know, and dad's dad lost the

312
00:18:32,650 --> 00:18:37,210
Speaker 4: plot when Mum died. He really just went into himself

313
00:18:37,290 --> 00:18:41,250
Speaker 4: until he died himself. So I just I couldn't ask

314
00:18:42,170 --> 00:18:44,210
Speaker 4: any of those things. You want to know, all those

315
00:18:44,250 --> 00:18:45,490
Speaker 4: motherly things.

316
00:18:46,250 --> 00:18:48,010
Speaker 2: Is that something that you're trying to do with Cleo

317
00:18:48,090 --> 00:18:52,970
Speaker 2: now is to document, to share, to create a space

318
00:18:53,530 --> 00:18:54,610
Speaker 2: that you wish that you have.

319
00:18:55,450 --> 00:19:00,090
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely take pictures, take videos. The photos I have

320
00:19:00,410 --> 00:19:05,130
Speaker 4: of me and Mum are I was a baby and

321
00:19:05,170 --> 00:19:09,010
Speaker 4: then maybe two when I was ten. None as an adult,

322
00:19:09,290 --> 00:19:12,890
Speaker 4: because you are selfish when you're growing up and you're

323
00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:15,610
Speaker 4: a teenager and you're in your twenties, you're just too

324
00:19:15,650 --> 00:19:18,650
Speaker 4: selfish and you're not taking pictures with your parents, you're

325
00:19:18,650 --> 00:19:23,170
Speaker 4: taking them with your friends. I don't have photos. I'm

326
00:19:23,210 --> 00:19:27,490
Speaker 4: trying always to make sure that Cleo and I have

327
00:19:27,570 --> 00:19:31,490
Speaker 4: photos as well, that I've got photos with India and videos.

328
00:19:32,170 --> 00:19:34,570
Speaker 4: I don't have videos of Mum talking. I want to

329
00:19:34,610 --> 00:19:40,250
Speaker 4: hear her voice again. You know, just so many things.

330
00:19:40,810 --> 00:19:43,810
Speaker 2: There are four generations of women in this story, and

331
00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:46,490
Speaker 2: you're right about that. And the piece by sharing what

332
00:19:46,610 --> 00:19:50,250
Speaker 2: is quite a beautiful, actual scientific fact of how all

333
00:19:50,370 --> 00:19:53,850
Speaker 2: connected you are. Could you share what that is and

334
00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:55,250
Speaker 2: why you love that so much?

335
00:19:55,770 --> 00:19:58,810
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's amazing. So I might get this kind of wrong,

336
00:19:58,850 --> 00:20:04,330
Speaker 4: but basically, when I gave birth to Cleo, she had

337
00:20:04,410 --> 00:20:07,410
Speaker 4: all the eggs that she would have for her lifetime,

338
00:20:07,730 --> 00:20:12,650
Speaker 4: so indigo was in her. So indigo was a part

339
00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:17,890
Speaker 4: of me. It's like, what is that kind of mind blowing?

340
00:20:18,850 --> 00:20:23,210
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy, it's so so crazy and sadly, as

341
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:27,290
Speaker 2: you said at the peaks, the men don't get that. No,

342
00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:29,970
Speaker 2: not that they're not important, No, they just don't get

343
00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:33,290
Speaker 2: that beautiful connection that women get.

344
00:20:33,490 --> 00:20:36,690
Speaker 4: No, because the sperm is it takes to puberty, I

345
00:20:36,730 --> 00:20:39,050
Speaker 4: think till they build their sperm, so it's not a

346
00:20:39,050 --> 00:20:42,690
Speaker 4: part of them from when they're born, whereas with women,

347
00:20:42,810 --> 00:20:44,770
Speaker 4: we're born with all the eggs that we will have,

348
00:20:45,290 --> 00:20:50,010
Speaker 4: so they are a part of your mother already. Yeah.

349
00:20:50,090 --> 00:20:52,210
Speaker 2: Another way that we end every little love Stories is

350
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:54,930
Speaker 2: that we ask what does love mean to you? And

351
00:20:54,930 --> 00:20:58,690
Speaker 2: that can be just today, right now, in this second.

352
00:20:58,890 --> 00:21:01,370
Speaker 2: But what comes to mind when I ask what does

353
00:21:01,450 --> 00:21:02,170
Speaker 2: love mean to you?

354
00:21:03,050 --> 00:21:07,970
Speaker 4: Family? It's just family. Like everyone else comes and goes,

355
00:21:09,090 --> 00:21:14,010
Speaker 4: but family is always there. And the fact that even

356
00:21:14,050 --> 00:21:17,690
Speaker 4: though I lost my mum, I so feel like she's

357
00:21:17,730 --> 00:21:22,650
Speaker 4: still there and so does Cleo. Like, how amazing is that?

358
00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:24,090
Speaker 4: It's beautiful?

359
00:21:25,170 --> 00:21:27,090
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for sharing your little love story.

360
00:21:27,210 --> 00:21:31,570
Speaker 2: That's all right, Thank you for listening to Little Love Stories.

361
00:21:31,730 --> 00:21:33,930
Speaker 2: If you'd like to read Anna's full little Love story,

362
00:21:33,970 --> 00:21:35,610
Speaker 2: you can go to the link in the show notes.

363
00:21:36,130 --> 00:21:40,170
Speaker 2: Anna also has some very silly tiktoks and skits about menopause.

364
00:21:40,450 --> 00:21:42,170
Speaker 2: If you would like to have a laugh, We've also

365
00:21:42,210 --> 00:21:44,890
Speaker 2: popped a link to those in the show notes. If

366
00:21:44,930 --> 00:21:46,810
Speaker 2: you have a story you want to tell, we'd love

367
00:21:46,850 --> 00:21:49,250
Speaker 2: to hear it. We're always on the lookout for new

368
00:21:49,290 --> 00:21:51,770
Speaker 2: stories and hearing from someone who has loved to give.

369
00:21:52,650 --> 00:21:54,330
Speaker 2: If you want to get in touch, all the details

370
00:21:54,370 --> 00:21:57,050
Speaker 2: are also in our show notes. Little Love Stories is

371
00:21:57,090 --> 00:22:00,330
Speaker 2: produced by me Grace Ruverray with audio production by Lou Hill.

372
00:22:00,970 --> 00:22:02,930
Speaker 2: If you're looking for something else to listen to, mma

373
00:22:03,010 --> 00:22:06,010
Speaker 2: me who's presenting one hundred hours of summer listens from

374
00:22:06,090 --> 00:22:11,010
Speaker 2: meaningful conversations, incredible stories, fashion, beauty, and a bit of silliness.

375
00:22:11,410 --> 00:22:13,330
Speaker 2: There's a link to more things to listen to in

376
00:22:13,370 --> 00:22:14,050
Speaker 2: the show notes.