1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,341 Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:18,822 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,822 --> 00:00:24,182 Speaker 3: Welcome to mummea out loud where women come to debrief. 5 00:00:24,342 --> 00:00:27,702 Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens, I'm me Friedman and I'm m Burnham. 6 00:00:27,742 --> 00:00:30,461 Speaker 3: And here's what's on our agenda for today, Monday, the 7 00:00:30,502 --> 00:00:34,821 Speaker 3: seventh of July. The Princess Treatment is being covered everywhere 8 00:00:34,862 --> 00:00:37,582 Speaker 3: from The Guardian to the New York Times. So what 9 00:00:37,822 --> 00:00:38,942 Speaker 3: is it and what's the problem? 10 00:00:39,182 --> 00:00:42,702 Speaker 1: Plus what micro dramas women are talking about and why 11 00:00:42,782 --> 00:00:44,342 Speaker 1: I think it's none of our business? 12 00:00:44,582 --> 00:00:48,141 Speaker 2: And Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill has passed. But exactly 13 00:00:48,222 --> 00:00:52,022 Speaker 2: why is it? Singular, big and beautiful? Amelia Lester is 14 00:00:52,062 --> 00:00:57,622 Speaker 2: here to explain. But first, Over the weekend, Melbourne witnessed 15 00:00:57,662 --> 00:01:01,062 Speaker 2: a disturbing surge in anti Semitic violence that has shaken 16 00:01:01,142 --> 00:01:04,902 Speaker 2: the city's Jewish community and has drawn condemnation from leaders 17 00:01:04,941 --> 00:01:08,982 Speaker 2: both in Australia and abroad. On Friday night, in Arson 18 00:01:09,021 --> 00:01:11,582 Speaker 2: has set fire to the doors of the historic East 19 00:01:11,622 --> 00:01:16,782 Speaker 2: Melbourne Hebrew Congregation while around twenty worshipers were inside. Fortunately 20 00:01:16,902 --> 00:01:20,062 Speaker 2: no injuries were reported, but the incident has been described 21 00:01:20,102 --> 00:01:23,142 Speaker 2: as a cowardly act of violence and anti Semitism by 22 00:01:23,142 --> 00:01:24,942 Speaker 2: Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi. 23 00:01:25,222 --> 00:01:30,741 Speaker 4: Australians have every right to be able to conduct their faith, 24 00:01:31,382 --> 00:01:35,902 Speaker 4: to engage with each other in peace and harmony. That 25 00:01:36,102 --> 00:01:40,102 Speaker 4: is the Australia that we cherish, and these actions have 26 00:01:40,262 --> 00:01:42,422 Speaker 4: no place in our country. 27 00:01:42,822 --> 00:01:47,142 Speaker 2: In a separate incident, in estimated twenty protesters stormed Israeli 28 00:01:47,222 --> 00:01:52,422 Speaker 2: owned Miznan restaurant in Melbourne, CBD, shouting offensive chance. Additionally, 29 00:01:52,582 --> 00:01:55,702 Speaker 2: three vehicles were set allied at a business in Greensboro 30 00:01:55,942 --> 00:01:59,662 Speaker 2: in Melbourne's northeast, with anti Semitic graffiti sprayed on the 31 00:01:59,702 --> 00:02:05,302 Speaker 2: cars and nearby building. These coordinated attacks have been condemned internationally, 32 00:02:05,462 --> 00:02:10,381 Speaker 2: with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Nhnahu describing them as reprehensible 33 00:02:10,822 --> 00:02:14,662 Speaker 2: and calling for decisive action from the Australian government. In 34 00:02:14,702 --> 00:02:17,782 Speaker 2: response to the Victorian government has announced the creation of 35 00:02:17,822 --> 00:02:20,742 Speaker 2: a new Anti Hate Task Force to address the rising 36 00:02:20,822 --> 00:02:25,102 Speaker 2: tide of anti Semitism Mia in light of these latest 37 00:02:25,102 --> 00:02:28,142 Speaker 2: attacks on the Jewish community. And I say latest because 38 00:02:28,181 --> 00:02:31,862 Speaker 2: these certainly aren't the first. Surely we can all agree 39 00:02:31,902 --> 00:02:34,702 Speaker 2: that anyone who is a specific religion should not be 40 00:02:34,742 --> 00:02:35,822 Speaker 2: targeted for their faith. 41 00:02:36,142 --> 00:02:38,982 Speaker 1: Look, I'm so wary of anyone thinking that I'm speaking 42 00:02:38,982 --> 00:02:41,102 Speaker 1: on behalf of the Jewish community, or that I'm trying 43 00:02:41,102 --> 00:02:44,661 Speaker 1: to senter myself in this situation. I don't live in Melbourne. 44 00:02:44,662 --> 00:02:48,822 Speaker 1: I wasn't directly affected, but like every Jewish person in Australia, 45 00:02:50,181 --> 00:02:54,222 Speaker 1: ever since October seventh, we've lived in a different Australia, 46 00:02:54,262 --> 00:02:58,142 Speaker 1: one that we have really struggled to reconcile with the 47 00:02:58,142 --> 00:03:01,942 Speaker 1: one that we thought we lived in. Because I'm already 48 00:03:01,942 --> 00:03:04,502 Speaker 1: braced for people saying, but what about Palestine? But what 49 00:03:04,542 --> 00:03:06,622 Speaker 1: about Gaza? But what about the children? And this was 50 00:03:06,702 --> 00:03:09,142 Speaker 1: just a small thing, and how can you talk about 51 00:03:09,181 --> 00:03:13,102 Speaker 1: this when there are other things happening? And that's been 52 00:03:13,181 --> 00:03:16,662 Speaker 1: the reticence of many Jewish people, including me, for saying anything. 53 00:03:17,502 --> 00:03:20,382 Speaker 1: But I reject that because we always say on this show, 54 00:03:20,502 --> 00:03:24,062 Speaker 1: two things can be true. And you can be horrified 55 00:03:24,102 --> 00:03:26,982 Speaker 1: by what's happening in Gaza, you can also be horrified 56 00:03:26,982 --> 00:03:29,582 Speaker 1: about what happened on October the seventh, And you can 57 00:03:29,622 --> 00:03:34,782 Speaker 1: be incredibly distressed and horrified about synagogues being burned and 58 00:03:34,181 --> 00:03:38,942 Speaker 1: the anti Semitism that we've seen spread across Australia. Now 59 00:03:39,062 --> 00:03:41,422 Speaker 1: this is the latest and the most high profile, but 60 00:03:41,502 --> 00:03:50,142 Speaker 1: I don't know a Jewish person who hasn't experienced abuse, harassment, intimidation, threats. 61 00:03:50,382 --> 00:03:53,662 Speaker 3: Do you mean in the last twenty months or do 62 00:03:53,702 --> 00:03:55,582 Speaker 3: you mean yeah, more broadly. 63 00:03:55,422 --> 00:03:59,062 Speaker 1: Well, particularly in the last two years. And the Jewish 64 00:03:59,062 --> 00:04:01,502 Speaker 1: community in Australia is pretty small. There's only about one 65 00:04:01,582 --> 00:04:06,022 Speaker 1: hundred thousand or so of us, and pretty much every 66 00:04:06,062 --> 00:04:10,382 Speaker 1: single one of those people will have lost relatives in 67 00:04:10,422 --> 00:04:13,502 Speaker 1: the Holocaust, and most of those people will also probably 68 00:04:13,542 --> 00:04:18,581 Speaker 1: have relatives living in Israel, because you know, we're descended 69 00:04:18,582 --> 00:04:22,462 Speaker 1: from people who fled the Holocaust and fled Europe to Israel. 70 00:04:23,582 --> 00:04:26,222 Speaker 1: And the other thing that's been everywhere is these chants 71 00:04:26,222 --> 00:04:28,741 Speaker 1: of death to the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force. And 72 00:04:28,941 --> 00:04:30,861 Speaker 1: I just wanted to point out a couple of things 73 00:04:30,861 --> 00:04:34,662 Speaker 1: that I've been thinking about. I understand that people, you know, 74 00:04:34,702 --> 00:04:38,101 Speaker 1: and I don't agree with what Benjamin and Yaho's been doing, 75 00:04:38,181 --> 00:04:41,821 Speaker 1: like to be clear, many Jewish people, many Israeli people don't. 76 00:04:43,101 --> 00:04:46,741 Speaker 1: But I also don't agree with what Russia is doing 77 00:04:46,741 --> 00:04:49,382 Speaker 1: in the Ukraine. And many people didn't agree with what 78 00:04:49,421 --> 00:04:53,181 Speaker 1: America did in Iraq, but they weren't cheering and chanting 79 00:04:53,222 --> 00:04:57,021 Speaker 1: for the death of American soldiers or Russian soldiers. What 80 00:04:57,101 --> 00:05:00,061 Speaker 1: a government chooses to do is different to what the 81 00:05:00,181 --> 00:05:03,581 Speaker 1: armed forces do. I deployed, Yeah, they're deployed to do, 82 00:05:03,662 --> 00:05:07,621 Speaker 1: and they're deployed to follow orders. And you may disagree 83 00:05:07,621 --> 00:05:09,941 Speaker 1: with those orders, and I know that I do many 84 00:05:10,022 --> 00:05:13,582 Speaker 1: in many instances. But there's also something that people might 85 00:05:13,621 --> 00:05:16,381 Speaker 1: not know is that military service is compulsory in Israel. 86 00:05:16,662 --> 00:05:20,861 Speaker 1: Fifty percent of the IDF a female, and you have 87 00:05:20,902 --> 00:05:23,181 Speaker 1: to go and do military service for two years when 88 00:05:23,222 --> 00:05:26,981 Speaker 1: you're eighteen, when you finish school. So when you talk 89 00:05:27,022 --> 00:05:29,902 Speaker 1: about the IDF, that is Israel, that is the Israeli 90 00:05:29,941 --> 00:05:34,582 Speaker 1: population essentially. Yeah, it's a very very strange time. 91 00:05:35,061 --> 00:05:37,501 Speaker 3: You're so right about the IDF. And to be clear, 92 00:05:37,582 --> 00:05:40,382 Speaker 3: some of the reports, the videos that many people will 93 00:05:40,381 --> 00:05:43,182 Speaker 3: have seen, the testimony about how members of the IDF 94 00:05:43,421 --> 00:05:46,821 Speaker 3: have perpetrated violence over the last two years or so 95 00:05:47,022 --> 00:05:50,582 Speaker 3: is indefensible. But I keep thinking, not. 96 00:05:50,541 --> 00:05:51,061 Speaker 1: All of them. 97 00:05:51,101 --> 00:05:54,501 Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly it, right, So this is a simplification, 98 00:05:54,582 --> 00:05:58,301 Speaker 3: but sometimes I think that's useful. I keep thinking what 99 00:05:58,662 --> 00:06:01,261 Speaker 3: Hamas did on October seven, and what the Israeli government 100 00:06:01,342 --> 00:06:04,501 Speaker 3: has done in the months since are these acts of 101 00:06:04,741 --> 00:06:09,502 Speaker 3: unimaginable cruelty. They are the result of dehumanizing a group 102 00:06:09,821 --> 00:06:14,701 Speaker 3: of people, right, just taking away their humanity and letting 103 00:06:14,741 --> 00:06:20,421 Speaker 3: hate fester. And that's why perpetuating that is so unhelpful. 104 00:06:20,541 --> 00:06:26,181 Speaker 3: So if you're chanting death to Blah, you're repeating exactly 105 00:06:26,181 --> 00:06:29,902 Speaker 3: the same thing, right like, you're repeating the pattern of 106 00:06:29,981 --> 00:06:33,902 Speaker 3: hate that has led to this absolute devastation. 107 00:06:34,342 --> 00:06:36,662 Speaker 1: I want to be clear, not everybody that opposes the 108 00:06:36,662 --> 00:06:40,181 Speaker 1: war in Gaza is anti Semitic. No, not everybody who 109 00:06:40,222 --> 00:06:44,662 Speaker 1: is pro Palestinian is anti Semitic. Some are, But I 110 00:06:44,662 --> 00:06:48,501 Speaker 1: don't think you can argue that setting on fire a synagogue, 111 00:06:48,861 --> 00:06:55,902 Speaker 1: targeting Jewish businesses, abusing Jewish business owners and people online 112 00:06:56,381 --> 00:07:00,541 Speaker 1: just because they're Jewish, which is what's happened to many 113 00:07:00,582 --> 00:07:03,141 Speaker 1: of us in the last two years, and continues to 114 00:07:03,142 --> 00:07:06,702 Speaker 1: happen every day, by the way, you can't argue that 115 00:07:06,702 --> 00:07:09,902 Speaker 1: that's anything other than anti Semitic. No matter how passionately 116 00:07:09,941 --> 00:07:13,062 Speaker 1: you feel and how distressed you are about what's happening 117 00:07:13,062 --> 00:07:16,542 Speaker 1: in Gaza, how anyone could think that this could help 118 00:07:17,821 --> 00:07:18,701 Speaker 1: is beyond me. 119 00:07:19,422 --> 00:07:22,622 Speaker 3: It's why conversations around this have to be so nuanced 120 00:07:22,742 --> 00:07:27,022 Speaker 3: and so careful, because, as you say, criticism of Israel 121 00:07:27,182 --> 00:07:30,102 Speaker 3: is not anti Semitic, and there have been protests and 122 00:07:30,182 --> 00:07:35,502 Speaker 3: criticisms that I absolutely subscribe to. But this rise of 123 00:07:35,542 --> 00:07:40,262 Speaker 3: anti Semitism has also I think prevented some from speaking 124 00:07:40,342 --> 00:07:44,422 Speaker 3: out against the atrocities and what the UN and the 125 00:07:44,502 --> 00:07:48,062 Speaker 3: Human Rights Commission have called war crimes against Palestinian people, 126 00:07:48,422 --> 00:07:51,902 Speaker 3: because there's this question of who I am standing beside? 127 00:07:52,462 --> 00:07:56,062 Speaker 3: Am I standing beside someone who is lighting a synagogue 128 00:07:56,062 --> 00:07:57,742 Speaker 3: on fire? Because what I want to say about the 129 00:07:57,782 --> 00:08:00,141 Speaker 3: Israeli government and I've felt this when I've said things 130 00:08:00,742 --> 00:08:04,942 Speaker 3: about the treatment of Palestinian people, there have been people 131 00:08:04,982 --> 00:08:08,141 Speaker 3: with family in Israel or people who say to me, 132 00:08:08,262 --> 00:08:11,542 Speaker 3: you are perpetuating antisemtism. I obviously, I'm married into a 133 00:08:11,582 --> 00:08:14,182 Speaker 3: Jewish family, don't agree with that, and I think that 134 00:08:14,182 --> 00:08:19,141 Speaker 3: that is a way of suppressing really important conversations. We 135 00:08:19,182 --> 00:08:22,182 Speaker 3: live in a Western democracy. I would criticize the Australian government. 136 00:08:22,222 --> 00:08:25,542 Speaker 3: They have done things that I find a borring and unacceptable, 137 00:08:25,582 --> 00:08:28,862 Speaker 3: and I would the US government will probably criticize them today. 138 00:08:29,342 --> 00:08:32,702 Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean that every single person in that 139 00:08:32,742 --> 00:08:35,462 Speaker 3: demographic is answerable to what a government. 140 00:08:35,182 --> 00:08:38,622 Speaker 1: And you don't chant for the death of Australian soldiers. No, no, 141 00:08:38,902 --> 00:08:41,782 Speaker 1: And it's shocking to me. And people will say, oh, 142 00:08:42,062 --> 00:08:44,942 Speaker 1: how can you compare what someone says at Glastonbury, you know, 143 00:08:45,062 --> 00:08:47,902 Speaker 1: the performers that were leading Chance to Death to the 144 00:08:47,902 --> 00:08:50,462 Speaker 1: idea of how can you compare that to what's going 145 00:08:50,502 --> 00:08:52,582 Speaker 1: on in Gaza. You have to stay focused. It's like 146 00:08:53,062 --> 00:08:56,182 Speaker 1: just because one is terrible doesn't mean that you don't 147 00:08:56,182 --> 00:08:57,062 Speaker 1: call out the other. 148 00:08:57,662 --> 00:09:00,342 Speaker 3: I think it's probably really important to note as well 149 00:09:00,462 --> 00:09:04,182 Speaker 3: the rise of Islamophobia, particularly since there was this report 150 00:09:04,822 --> 00:09:08,342 Speaker 3: about how, particularly in the two weeks following October seven, 151 00:09:08,942 --> 00:09:13,582 Speaker 3: the experience of Muslim Australians, particularly women and children, being 152 00:09:13,622 --> 00:09:16,302 Speaker 3: harassed and abused on the street. There was a case 153 00:09:16,342 --> 00:09:20,662 Speaker 3: in this report that was recently released of a mosque 154 00:09:20,982 --> 00:09:25,302 Speaker 3: basically being desecrated with fecal matter. Like, there have been 155 00:09:25,382 --> 00:09:28,182 Speaker 3: instances like that, and that is exactly the same thing, right, 156 00:09:28,302 --> 00:09:32,622 Speaker 3: It's like a group does something that we find deplorable 157 00:09:32,822 --> 00:09:35,662 Speaker 3: and we punish people on the other side of the 158 00:09:35,702 --> 00:09:37,702 Speaker 3: world that has nothing to do with that. Yeah, So 159 00:09:37,742 --> 00:09:39,942 Speaker 3: I think that it's worth acknowledging that it's happening to 160 00:09:40,742 --> 00:09:42,942 Speaker 3: many groups who are being sort of swept up in 161 00:09:43,022 --> 00:09:46,582 Speaker 3: this when you know what a synagogue in Melbourne has 162 00:09:46,622 --> 00:09:49,662 Speaker 3: to do with the decisions of Benjamin Netnahoo. And I 163 00:09:49,742 --> 00:09:52,022 Speaker 3: must say when Benjamin Netanya who came out with that 164 00:09:52,102 --> 00:09:56,502 Speaker 3: statement and he said reprehensible anti Semitic attacks, he said, 165 00:09:56,542 --> 00:09:59,062 Speaker 3: these are severe hate crimes that must be uprooted. I 166 00:09:59,182 --> 00:10:02,102 Speaker 3: was like, net Yahoo, I don't think you're any in 167 00:10:02,142 --> 00:10:04,662 Speaker 3: any position to be denouncing hate crimes right now, Like 168 00:10:04,702 --> 00:10:06,342 Speaker 3: this is where the complication comes in. 169 00:10:06,462 --> 00:10:09,462 Speaker 1: Don't we all have to denounce hate cremes wherever? 170 00:10:10,462 --> 00:10:14,102 Speaker 2: For me, this is the scale of this is terrifying. 171 00:10:14,342 --> 00:10:17,502 Speaker 2: I always think back to the Bondie attacks, and I 172 00:10:17,502 --> 00:10:20,662 Speaker 2: remember saying on the podcast how I had this deep 173 00:10:21,462 --> 00:10:24,222 Speaker 2: fear that before the man was uncovered, I thought he 174 00:10:24,302 --> 00:10:26,102 Speaker 2: was going to be brown because I knew all the 175 00:10:26,182 --> 00:10:29,102 Speaker 2: ramifications that come from someone who looks like me and 176 00:10:29,102 --> 00:10:31,702 Speaker 2: has the same skin color as me. And then watching 177 00:10:31,742 --> 00:10:35,222 Speaker 2: these attacks happen, even though the story is something that 178 00:10:35,422 --> 00:10:39,182 Speaker 2: originally for me personally felt so distance and overseas, and 179 00:10:39,222 --> 00:10:42,062 Speaker 2: now it's come home, just feels like it's heightened it 180 00:10:42,102 --> 00:10:44,222 Speaker 2: to a level that I did not expect, because when 181 00:10:44,222 --> 00:10:47,462 Speaker 2: one community is threatened, it threatens the safety of us all. 182 00:10:48,062 --> 00:10:50,422 Speaker 3: In a moment, there's a new way to split up, 183 00:10:50,422 --> 00:10:53,942 Speaker 3: and our favorite astronaut, Katie Perry, has confirmed she's doing it. 184 00:10:57,342 --> 00:11:01,702 Speaker 1: Celebrity split announcements are always a very rich text occasionally, 185 00:11:01,782 --> 00:11:03,942 Speaker 1: I mean my favorite ones are when they say we've 186 00:11:03,982 --> 00:11:06,742 Speaker 1: never been more in love, Yes, we are the best 187 00:11:06,742 --> 00:11:09,662 Speaker 1: shifts of friends. Yeah, and will remain in each other's 188 00:11:09,662 --> 00:11:10,822 Speaker 1: hearts and lives. 189 00:11:10,542 --> 00:11:14,822 Speaker 3: And something about a path that's like split but still intersecting, 190 00:11:14,862 --> 00:11:17,261 Speaker 3: but closer than ever before. But we live in different homes. 191 00:11:17,022 --> 00:11:19,182 Speaker 1: And sometimes you like, is this an engagement announcement or 192 00:11:19,222 --> 00:11:22,822 Speaker 1: are you divorcing anyway? Occasionally these announcements gift us with 193 00:11:22,862 --> 00:11:25,262 Speaker 1: a new vernacular to use in our own lives. Remember 194 00:11:25,262 --> 00:11:29,902 Speaker 1: Conscious Uncoupling that was in twenty fourteen. It entered the 195 00:11:29,982 --> 00:11:33,142 Speaker 1: lexicon back then thanks to Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin, 196 00:11:33,862 --> 00:11:37,862 Speaker 1: And on Friday, Katie Perry and Orlando Bloom added to 197 00:11:37,942 --> 00:11:41,462 Speaker 1: the cannon. The scurrilous gossip about their breakup was finally 198 00:11:41,502 --> 00:11:44,022 Speaker 1: confirmed with a story in The New York Post, and 199 00:11:44,102 --> 00:11:47,382 Speaker 1: it read due to the abundance of recent interest and 200 00:11:47,422 --> 00:11:52,022 Speaker 1: conversations surrounding their relationship, representatives have confirmed that Orlando and 201 00:11:52,102 --> 00:11:55,582 Speaker 1: Katie have been shifting their relationship over the past many 202 00:11:55,622 --> 00:11:59,622 Speaker 1: months to focus on co parenting. They will continue to 203 00:11:59,622 --> 00:12:01,982 Speaker 1: be seen together as a family as their shared priority 204 00:12:02,142 --> 00:12:05,102 Speaker 1: is and always will be raising their daughter with love, stability, 205 00:12:05,382 --> 00:12:10,022 Speaker 1: and mutual respect. And as you shifted any relationships recee. 206 00:12:10,382 --> 00:12:13,902 Speaker 2: I love the word shift because it feels like it's 207 00:12:13,942 --> 00:12:18,182 Speaker 2: one of those words similar to conscious uncoupling, where it's 208 00:12:18,222 --> 00:12:20,822 Speaker 2: not my fault, it's not your fault, it's the universe's fault. 209 00:12:21,182 --> 00:12:22,142 Speaker 2: We just shifted. 210 00:12:23,302 --> 00:12:25,982 Speaker 1: So it's just like you just take a tonic plates. 211 00:12:25,662 --> 00:12:28,022 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think I'm going to start adopting that word, 212 00:12:28,102 --> 00:12:30,902 Speaker 2: like when you're like, what happened to that guy? We shifted. 213 00:12:32,342 --> 00:12:33,222 Speaker 1: Like that sphere. 214 00:12:33,342 --> 00:12:36,902 Speaker 3: I love the idea of a PR team googling synonyms 215 00:12:36,902 --> 00:12:39,862 Speaker 3: for breakup and trying to find a new one. It's 216 00:12:39,902 --> 00:12:42,182 Speaker 3: such a as you say, mayor a rich text on 217 00:12:42,542 --> 00:12:45,662 Speaker 3: how many different euphemisms there are. I don't think Orlando 218 00:12:45,702 --> 00:12:47,742 Speaker 3: and Katie are in a great place right now. They 219 00:12:47,782 --> 00:12:50,862 Speaker 3: are shifting so that Orlando is hanging with Sidney Sweeney 220 00:12:51,062 --> 00:12:53,902 Speaker 3: and Katie is grinding on a boat and I saw 221 00:12:53,942 --> 00:12:57,622 Speaker 3: her in some bikinis looking gorgeous, and I did think 222 00:12:58,382 --> 00:13:00,822 Speaker 3: that's what all of us need during our relaunch phase. 223 00:13:01,062 --> 00:13:02,702 Speaker 3: I have to rely I've had to rely on my 224 00:13:02,742 --> 00:13:06,742 Speaker 3: girlfriends to take my pictures when I've been dumped and 225 00:13:06,782 --> 00:13:09,822 Speaker 3: I've gone I need to let the world know single 226 00:13:09,822 --> 00:13:12,702 Speaker 3: I'm ready to mingle it. And yeah, yeah, then I've 227 00:13:12,702 --> 00:13:16,142 Speaker 3: got to say to my girlfriends, we need a photo shoot. Yes, 228 00:13:16,262 --> 00:13:18,582 Speaker 3: I need to look like we haven't staged a photo shoot, 229 00:13:18,782 --> 00:13:20,782 Speaker 3: and I need to look really good. She has a 230 00:13:20,822 --> 00:13:23,782 Speaker 3: whole paparazzi apparatus that she can call and be like, 231 00:13:23,782 --> 00:13:25,462 Speaker 3: I'm on a boat, I'm looking great. 232 00:13:25,902 --> 00:13:29,382 Speaker 1: I also thought another interesting addition to the cannon was 233 00:13:29,422 --> 00:13:32,261 Speaker 1: this sentence, they will continue to be seen together as 234 00:13:32,302 --> 00:13:35,862 Speaker 1: a family, not they will continue to spend time together 235 00:13:35,902 --> 00:13:39,342 Speaker 1: as a family, but they will continue to be seen together, 236 00:13:39,702 --> 00:13:43,262 Speaker 1: which means, don't get all excited when we're papped together. 237 00:13:43,302 --> 00:13:45,302 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean we're getting back together. I thought that 238 00:13:45,382 --> 00:13:46,022 Speaker 1: was interesting. 239 00:13:46,222 --> 00:13:49,502 Speaker 2: That is interesting. I actually do know exactly where they 240 00:13:49,542 --> 00:13:52,142 Speaker 2: got the word shift from, though, Where do you guys 241 00:13:52,182 --> 00:13:55,982 Speaker 2: know the influencer tinks. She's massive on TikTok. She's known 242 00:13:55,982 --> 00:13:59,782 Speaker 2: as TikTok's older sister, and she's a big dating influencer 243 00:13:59,782 --> 00:14:03,102 Speaker 2: who went viral during COVID. She wrote a book called 244 00:14:03,222 --> 00:14:06,302 Speaker 2: The Shift, and that's a book that every woman reads 245 00:14:06,382 --> 00:14:09,342 Speaker 2: after she's just been dumped because it's about changing our minds. 246 00:14:09,582 --> 00:14:12,342 Speaker 2: I'm dating to becoming singled again. I know Katie Perry 247 00:14:12,382 --> 00:14:14,582 Speaker 2: was reading that book on that boat. Well, she helpless 248 00:14:14,622 --> 00:14:15,542 Speaker 2: is going just a shift. 249 00:14:15,622 --> 00:14:16,302 Speaker 1: It's a shift. 250 00:14:17,262 --> 00:14:19,502 Speaker 5: Let's talk about princess treatment. If you're at a restaurant 251 00:14:19,542 --> 00:14:22,102 Speaker 5: and how you interact with the wheat staff and the hostess. 252 00:14:22,142 --> 00:14:24,262 Speaker 5: If I am at a restaurant with my husband, I 253 00:14:24,302 --> 00:14:26,382 Speaker 5: do not talk to the hostess. I do not open 254 00:14:26,382 --> 00:14:28,422 Speaker 5: many doors, and I do not order my own food. 255 00:14:28,702 --> 00:14:30,622 Speaker 5: It's not in any sense like you're a better than 256 00:14:30,662 --> 00:14:35,502 Speaker 5: the hostess. You're just letting your husband lead and be vasculine. 257 00:14:35,622 --> 00:14:39,182 Speaker 5: Hear me the reservation, he's taking you out, Let him 258 00:14:39,222 --> 00:14:40,142 Speaker 5: do the logistics. 259 00:14:40,302 --> 00:14:41,142 Speaker 1: Look, I don't hate that. 260 00:14:41,342 --> 00:14:44,342 Speaker 2: Sign me up. 261 00:14:44,782 --> 00:14:47,942 Speaker 3: Does your partner give you the princess treatment? Is it 262 00:14:47,982 --> 00:14:50,342 Speaker 3: wrong to want it? And what does that even mean? 263 00:14:50,942 --> 00:14:55,542 Speaker 3: The term princess treatment originated on TikTok like everything, but 264 00:14:55,622 --> 00:14:57,862 Speaker 3: has since been interrogated by the Guardian and The New 265 00:14:57,982 --> 00:15:01,422 Speaker 3: York Times, so it's very serious. Legit is legit. Here's 266 00:15:01,422 --> 00:15:04,342 Speaker 3: what it actually means. It means your partner treats you 267 00:15:04,422 --> 00:15:07,182 Speaker 3: like royalty. They and let's be honest, because all the 268 00:15:07,222 --> 00:15:10,502 Speaker 3: examples I've seen are women talk about men treating them 269 00:15:10,542 --> 00:15:13,142 Speaker 3: like princesses. I suppose it could apply to same sex. 270 00:15:13,542 --> 00:15:15,822 Speaker 1: I know, I know women who are in same sex 271 00:15:15,862 --> 00:15:18,262 Speaker 1: relationships who request. 272 00:15:18,462 --> 00:15:21,622 Speaker 2: The prince relationships where the man is definitely the prince. 273 00:15:23,662 --> 00:15:26,102 Speaker 3: So this is what happens. They open the door for you, 274 00:15:26,622 --> 00:15:29,342 Speaker 3: they pull out your chair, they order for you, they 275 00:15:29,382 --> 00:15:32,502 Speaker 3: shower you with gifts. But the question is, what does 276 00:15:32,542 --> 00:15:35,502 Speaker 3: the princess have to do in return? You have to 277 00:15:35,582 --> 00:15:39,222 Speaker 3: create a frictionless home. You don't burden him with your emotions. 278 00:15:39,742 --> 00:15:42,182 Speaker 3: You let your husband lead or your partner lead. And 279 00:15:42,222 --> 00:15:46,422 Speaker 3: be masculine. One creator explains that you need to lean 280 00:15:46,462 --> 00:15:49,702 Speaker 3: into your softness and you need to look after yourself. 281 00:15:49,742 --> 00:15:53,102 Speaker 3: You've got to exercise. Specifically, it says drink lots of water. 282 00:15:53,822 --> 00:15:57,902 Speaker 3: And I'm going to assume that's just good advice. Yeah, advice, 283 00:15:58,022 --> 00:16:00,502 Speaker 3: free health advice. But also I just chuck this in. 284 00:16:00,542 --> 00:16:02,182 Speaker 3: I think you probably need to pluck your chin hair. 285 00:16:02,422 --> 00:16:03,262 Speaker 3: I think that's part of it. 286 00:16:03,702 --> 00:16:04,982 Speaker 2: Why do you look at me when you said that? 287 00:16:05,742 --> 00:16:10,622 Speaker 1: Confuse? So from what I understand this, I of it's 288 00:16:10,622 --> 00:16:13,302 Speaker 1: not new women talking about oh, he treats me like 289 00:16:13,342 --> 00:16:17,862 Speaker 1: a princess, right, They don't usually Like when I've heard 290 00:16:17,862 --> 00:16:20,862 Speaker 1: that expression in the past, it's not usually implied that 291 00:16:20,902 --> 00:16:24,782 Speaker 1: they have to do anything. It's more a statement about 292 00:16:25,462 --> 00:16:29,422 Speaker 1: him and how he feels or how their partner feels 293 00:16:29,462 --> 00:16:29,902 Speaker 1: about them. 294 00:16:29,942 --> 00:16:30,142 Speaker 6: Right. 295 00:16:30,502 --> 00:16:34,822 Speaker 1: But this whole genre of princess treatment, like we just 296 00:16:34,862 --> 00:16:39,742 Speaker 1: heard there, is about turning it into this proactive situation 297 00:16:39,942 --> 00:16:44,182 Speaker 1: that you can make a man create, like exactly by 298 00:16:44,262 --> 00:16:47,702 Speaker 1: doing certain things, so you almost give him no choice. 299 00:16:47,942 --> 00:16:52,382 Speaker 1: Or is it about how to sort of encourage or maintain. 300 00:16:52,262 --> 00:16:54,982 Speaker 3: The idea is that the princess treatment is a dynamic, 301 00:16:55,142 --> 00:16:57,422 Speaker 3: and that you by knowing how to accept a compliment, 302 00:16:57,782 --> 00:17:00,902 Speaker 3: by knowing how to walk, by knowing how to giggle 303 00:17:00,942 --> 00:17:04,182 Speaker 3: properly and respond to the messages, then you can kind 304 00:17:04,182 --> 00:17:08,142 Speaker 3: of encourage the princess treatment. And it's women offering each 305 00:17:08,142 --> 00:17:11,542 Speaker 3: other advice and this feels tradwife for Jason, it's because 306 00:17:11,542 --> 00:17:14,941 Speaker 3: it's absolutely trad wife ad Jason. But m do you 307 00:17:14,982 --> 00:17:17,221 Speaker 3: think there's actually a problem with a woman wanting to 308 00:17:17,262 --> 00:17:19,061 Speaker 3: be treated like a princess? 309 00:17:19,101 --> 00:17:22,222 Speaker 2: I actually think it's a bit different to what you said. 310 00:17:22,262 --> 00:17:24,861 Speaker 2: I don't think it's about wanting to be a princess. 311 00:17:24,942 --> 00:17:28,462 Speaker 2: I think the way that she worded this particular video, 312 00:17:28,621 --> 00:17:32,141 Speaker 2: it's in the sense that men want women who act 313 00:17:32,182 --> 00:17:35,101 Speaker 2: like princesses, so this is how you become one. And 314 00:17:35,141 --> 00:17:38,021 Speaker 2: I think she's gone. I think that's where she's getting at, 315 00:17:38,022 --> 00:17:40,182 Speaker 2: which is the same with the tradwife thing, right, Like 316 00:17:40,581 --> 00:17:43,022 Speaker 2: I think, and this is just a personal experience from 317 00:17:43,061 --> 00:17:46,221 Speaker 2: some of the men I've dated right now, there's like 318 00:17:46,262 --> 00:17:49,901 Speaker 2: this underlying need that it seems like these women are 319 00:17:49,942 --> 00:17:52,621 Speaker 2: coming together because there's something that's a bit off in 320 00:17:52,661 --> 00:17:56,021 Speaker 2: their relationship, so they're trying to find different ways on 321 00:17:56,101 --> 00:17:58,621 Speaker 2: how to maintain it or how to justify, how to 322 00:17:58,702 --> 00:17:59,421 Speaker 2: justify it. 323 00:17:59,341 --> 00:18:00,222 Speaker 1: It's been on it. 324 00:18:00,222 --> 00:18:03,262 Speaker 2: It's the same thing with these dating experts on TikTok. 325 00:18:03,302 --> 00:18:05,101 Speaker 2: And the only reason they're experts is because I've just 326 00:18:05,182 --> 00:18:08,382 Speaker 2: dated a lot, I should be on there. And it's 327 00:18:08,422 --> 00:18:10,661 Speaker 2: this way of like even when when you started that video, 328 00:18:10,782 --> 00:18:13,302 Speaker 2: let's talk about princess treatment. And I'm like, we're not talking. 329 00:18:13,341 --> 00:18:16,421 Speaker 2: You're talking, and you're basically just telling us you're doing 330 00:18:16,422 --> 00:18:18,622 Speaker 2: something that you just really like to do. I don't 331 00:18:18,621 --> 00:18:21,302 Speaker 2: think it's a princess treatment. I think she just has Honestly, 332 00:18:21,341 --> 00:18:23,581 Speaker 2: I think she just has a kink to be treated 333 00:18:23,621 --> 00:18:25,302 Speaker 2: that way, and she's just telling us that this is 334 00:18:25,302 --> 00:18:26,181 Speaker 2: what she likes. 335 00:18:26,222 --> 00:18:29,101 Speaker 1: Oh, I think this is so interesting. So because trad 336 00:18:29,182 --> 00:18:32,622 Speaker 1: wife doesn't sound like a club you want to join, right, 337 00:18:33,302 --> 00:18:35,262 Speaker 1: But who doesn't want to be treated like a princess? 338 00:18:35,302 --> 00:18:37,462 Speaker 1: Until you think about the princesses that you can think 339 00:18:37,502 --> 00:18:43,702 Speaker 1: of Megan for a minute, Kate, Mary, Diana. They don't 340 00:18:43,702 --> 00:18:46,941 Speaker 1: really have voices, they don't really have control over their 341 00:18:46,982 --> 00:18:51,181 Speaker 1: own destiny. They're scrutinized constantly for their appearance is the 342 00:18:51,222 --> 00:18:53,142 Speaker 1: primary way that they communicate the. 343 00:18:53,141 --> 00:18:54,902 Speaker 3: Job of a princess's beauty and babies. 344 00:18:55,262 --> 00:18:59,341 Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't make demands, they don't have bad days. 345 00:18:59,942 --> 00:19:03,182 Speaker 1: That's so interesting. So when I first met my husband, 346 00:19:03,861 --> 00:19:06,742 Speaker 1: every guy i'd been out with before him had been 347 00:19:06,982 --> 00:19:09,942 Speaker 1: what's the opposite of a princess? They treated me like that. 348 00:19:10,302 --> 00:19:13,341 Speaker 1: They just didn't like you. Yeah, they were just dickheads. 349 00:19:13,901 --> 00:19:17,141 Speaker 1: And so when we first got together, I was really 350 00:19:17,341 --> 00:19:20,941 Speaker 1: had no experience of someone opening a door or wanting 351 00:19:21,101 --> 00:19:23,421 Speaker 1: to pay for my dinner or anything. And I really 352 00:19:23,462 --> 00:19:26,182 Speaker 1: pushed back on it. Not opening the door so much, 353 00:19:26,222 --> 00:19:28,262 Speaker 1: but like we'd go out and I'd grab my wallet 354 00:19:28,262 --> 00:19:29,581 Speaker 1: and he goes, you don't have to grab your wallet, 355 00:19:29,581 --> 00:19:32,022 Speaker 1: and I'd be like, I get angry with him. I'm like, 356 00:19:32,341 --> 00:19:37,621 Speaker 1: stop trying to make me high on you. And I'm 357 00:19:37,861 --> 00:19:42,701 Speaker 1: financially independent woman, and yeah, it didn't feel safe to me, 358 00:19:42,901 --> 00:19:46,461 Speaker 1: Like I had this inherent suspicion of what it meant 359 00:19:46,502 --> 00:19:50,182 Speaker 1: to not be independent, because the princesses aren't independent. They're 360 00:19:50,222 --> 00:19:53,381 Speaker 1: only princesses usually because their parents are royalty or their 361 00:19:53,422 --> 00:19:54,302 Speaker 1: husband's royalty. 362 00:19:54,621 --> 00:19:57,661 Speaker 2: But I feel like what he was doing was not 363 00:19:57,702 --> 00:20:00,702 Speaker 2: like princess treatment. He was just being nice. I think 364 00:20:00,742 --> 00:20:03,461 Speaker 2: the princess treatment that I take issue is is like 365 00:20:03,542 --> 00:20:05,302 Speaker 2: the list of the stuff that the guy does is 366 00:20:05,341 --> 00:20:08,022 Speaker 2: just nice, that's just chivalry. To me, it's the stuff 367 00:20:08,061 --> 00:20:10,821 Speaker 2: that the woman has to do, Okay, a princess treatment. 368 00:20:10,542 --> 00:20:13,061 Speaker 1: Going yeah, like not make eye contact with the server, 369 00:20:13,302 --> 00:20:14,982 Speaker 1: not order what you want to eat. 370 00:20:14,982 --> 00:20:18,821 Speaker 3: Not have any big emotions, look unpopular opinion. I just 371 00:20:19,302 --> 00:20:22,461 Speaker 3: I'm a bit exhausted by feeling like I have to 372 00:20:22,542 --> 00:20:27,022 Speaker 3: have a take on everyone's relationship now and TikTok. It's 373 00:20:27,061 --> 00:20:28,821 Speaker 3: like it's trying to force me to do. 374 00:20:28,702 --> 00:20:30,901 Speaker 1: That and princess narcissist. 375 00:20:30,982 --> 00:20:35,421 Speaker 3: There are so essential dynamics within other people's relationships that 376 00:20:35,502 --> 00:20:38,622 Speaker 3: I don't understand. Like I look at my parents, I'm like, yeah, 377 00:20:38,661 --> 00:20:40,262 Speaker 3: I don't really understand that part of your. 378 00:20:40,182 --> 00:20:40,742 Speaker 2: Marriage at all. 379 00:20:41,141 --> 00:20:43,821 Speaker 3: But that's not any of my business. That's totally fine. 380 00:20:44,542 --> 00:20:47,942 Speaker 3: And I think that when we think that in order 381 00:20:48,022 --> 00:20:51,782 Speaker 3: to have good, healthy relationships, there are boxes we need 382 00:20:51,782 --> 00:20:54,542 Speaker 3: to tick which we're constantly being told, like your partner 383 00:20:54,542 --> 00:20:56,581 Speaker 3: should be doing this, this, this, this, this, this, I 384 00:20:56,581 --> 00:21:00,701 Speaker 3: feel like that's when things get really toxic. Like I 385 00:21:00,782 --> 00:21:03,542 Speaker 3: was listening to these experts recently talk about the psychology 386 00:21:03,542 --> 00:21:06,941 Speaker 3: of romance, and they were talking about how every relationship 387 00:21:07,022 --> 00:21:09,222 Speaker 3: has its own culture. That was the word they used. 388 00:21:09,302 --> 00:21:11,262 Speaker 3: You have your own culture, and in that culture, you 389 00:21:11,302 --> 00:21:14,542 Speaker 3: almost have a shared language, you have shared rituals, You 390 00:21:14,621 --> 00:21:17,861 Speaker 3: have just this pattern and this dynamic that only makes 391 00:21:17,861 --> 00:21:20,261 Speaker 3: sense to you if you made that sound or that 392 00:21:20,381 --> 00:21:22,302 Speaker 3: voice in the company of anyone else. They would not 393 00:21:22,341 --> 00:21:25,502 Speaker 3: find it endearing or cute. It's like the history that's shared. Yeah, 394 00:21:25,621 --> 00:21:28,702 Speaker 3: and you know that things go wrong when the culture 395 00:21:28,742 --> 00:21:30,661 Speaker 3: when that thing you always do that makes them laugh 396 00:21:31,182 --> 00:21:33,542 Speaker 3: doesn't make them laugh anymore, and you go ooh, there's 397 00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:37,341 Speaker 3: something off in our culture. But you don't need to 398 00:21:38,061 --> 00:21:41,222 Speaker 3: compare if you feel like, oh, see, our friend's gone 399 00:21:41,222 --> 00:21:44,061 Speaker 3: play tennis every weekend and we have never really played tennis, 400 00:21:44,061 --> 00:21:46,662 Speaker 3: and maybe that's how a relationship should be. Like that's 401 00:21:46,742 --> 00:21:50,221 Speaker 3: where I think things start to get really complicated. And 402 00:21:50,621 --> 00:21:53,622 Speaker 3: with the princess treatment, it's like, I just don't want 403 00:21:53,621 --> 00:21:57,422 Speaker 3: any stranger on the internet telling me what my relationship 404 00:21:57,742 --> 00:22:00,382 Speaker 3: should look like. I don't want any of that. I'm 405 00:22:00,381 --> 00:22:02,701 Speaker 3: absolutely fine. If you want to be treated like a 406 00:22:02,742 --> 00:22:06,061 Speaker 3: princess and that's part of your culture, all power to you. 407 00:22:06,262 --> 00:22:08,542 Speaker 3: I actually think there's no problem with that. If you 408 00:22:08,542 --> 00:22:10,142 Speaker 3: don't want to talk to waits to. I mean it's 409 00:22:10,141 --> 00:22:13,101 Speaker 3: a little bit rude, but absolutely. And he does this 410 00:22:13,222 --> 00:22:16,701 Speaker 3: and he pays for things, and you like diamonds fabulous. 411 00:22:16,982 --> 00:22:20,581 Speaker 3: But this thing about everyone being an expert, I'm just like, oh, 412 00:22:21,061 --> 00:22:24,302 Speaker 3: we're all negotiating our own relationships privately, Like I don't 413 00:22:24,302 --> 00:22:26,061 Speaker 3: think it's anything we can ever properly perform. 414 00:22:26,581 --> 00:22:29,941 Speaker 2: After the break, our US correspondent Emelia is going to 415 00:22:29,982 --> 00:22:32,501 Speaker 2: tell us what the hell the Big Beautiful Bill is 416 00:22:32,621 --> 00:22:35,141 Speaker 2: and what it's going to mean for us out loud as. 417 00:22:35,182 --> 00:22:36,901 Speaker 1: If you want to listen to us every day of 418 00:22:36,942 --> 00:22:39,701 Speaker 1: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on 419 00:22:39,821 --> 00:22:43,422 Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Mum and mea subscriber. 420 00:22:43,821 --> 00:22:45,941 Speaker 1: Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and 421 00:22:46,022 --> 00:22:48,382 Speaker 1: support us, and a big thank you to all our 422 00:22:48,422 --> 00:22:49,462 Speaker 1: current subscribers. 423 00:22:54,901 --> 00:22:58,581 Speaker 2: Last week, the United States has of representatives past Donald 424 00:22:58,621 --> 00:23:02,461 Speaker 2: Trump's tax cut and spending package, which he has called 425 00:23:02,542 --> 00:23:06,581 Speaker 2: the One Big Beautiful Bill. Now, we've talked about the 426 00:23:06,861 --> 00:23:09,622 Speaker 2: BBB before here on out Loud. 427 00:23:09,782 --> 00:23:12,621 Speaker 3: To be mixed up with a BBL. Oh, that's a 428 00:23:12,661 --> 00:23:13,222 Speaker 3: different thing. 429 00:23:13,422 --> 00:23:13,742 Speaker 2: Different. 430 00:23:13,821 --> 00:23:15,461 Speaker 3: Yeah, and just consult your doctor if you want a 431 00:23:15,462 --> 00:23:17,782 Speaker 3: Brazilian buck lift. But this is bad in a whole 432 00:23:17,901 --> 00:23:18,262 Speaker 3: new deal. 433 00:23:18,341 --> 00:23:21,861 Speaker 2: It's been different. Yes, when it actually passed, I feel 434 00:23:21,861 --> 00:23:23,982 Speaker 2: like that's when me and my friends started really talking 435 00:23:24,022 --> 00:23:26,941 Speaker 2: about it. None of us really understood what it meant, 436 00:23:27,462 --> 00:23:29,621 Speaker 2: and I didn't want to do a disservice to the 437 00:23:29,621 --> 00:23:33,382 Speaker 2: out loudest, so we bought in my direct competitor, Amelia 438 00:23:33,462 --> 00:23:35,421 Speaker 2: Lester here in the Studo today. 439 00:23:35,462 --> 00:23:36,901 Speaker 3: This is so humble of you, and thank you. 440 00:23:37,022 --> 00:23:37,942 Speaker 1: Very uncharacteristic. 441 00:23:38,341 --> 00:23:42,662 Speaker 2: It's very different than me as well, Amelia. What does 442 00:23:42,702 --> 00:23:43,141 Speaker 2: this mean? 443 00:23:43,422 --> 00:23:45,942 Speaker 6: So people are calling this the worst thing the US 444 00:23:46,061 --> 00:23:49,341 Speaker 6: government has ever done, so I think it's worth unpacking 445 00:23:49,381 --> 00:23:51,542 Speaker 6: a little bit, and I divided it up into winners 446 00:23:51,542 --> 00:23:52,221 Speaker 6: and losers. 447 00:23:52,542 --> 00:23:54,022 Speaker 1: Okay, great, if you'll indulge me. 448 00:23:54,542 --> 00:23:58,141 Speaker 6: Winners rich people the extension of huse huge tax cuts 449 00:23:58,141 --> 00:24:00,862 Speaker 6: are the very richest Americans, so they will be loving it. 450 00:24:01,302 --> 00:24:05,341 Speaker 6: Ice are big winners here, I says. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, 451 00:24:05,621 --> 00:24:08,902 Speaker 6: the people who round up immigrants and typically are wearing 452 00:24:08,982 --> 00:24:11,581 Speaker 6: face masks and then push them into unmarked mans and 453 00:24:11,621 --> 00:24:14,222 Speaker 6: take them away to El Salvador. They're getting two hundred 454 00:24:14,262 --> 00:24:17,141 Speaker 6: billion Australian dollars. To put it in perspectives, this blew 455 00:24:17,182 --> 00:24:20,181 Speaker 6: my mind. That is more than the total budget of 456 00:24:20,222 --> 00:24:23,701 Speaker 6: the Israeli military just for this one, sort of like 457 00:24:23,901 --> 00:24:28,661 Speaker 6: secondary police force. People who like gold they are celebrating 458 00:24:28,661 --> 00:24:31,462 Speaker 6: today because thirty eight billion dollars has been given to 459 00:24:31,542 --> 00:24:35,462 Speaker 6: Trump's Golden Dome idea, which is modeled on Israel's Iron. 460 00:24:35,262 --> 00:24:36,582 Speaker 1: Dome like a missile shield. 461 00:24:37,061 --> 00:24:40,142 Speaker 6: Problem is that's actually estimated to cost about eight hundred 462 00:24:40,182 --> 00:24:45,141 Speaker 6: billion to build, and also experts say it's a nonsensical idea. 463 00:24:45,302 --> 00:24:47,742 Speaker 1: Losers. Is that like the wall, remember the walls? 464 00:24:47,901 --> 00:24:50,262 Speaker 6: Like the wall. Yeah, he's given some money for that too. 465 00:24:50,262 --> 00:24:53,741 Speaker 6: Don't worry, losers, students, big increase in the cost of 466 00:24:53,821 --> 00:24:57,701 Speaker 6: university student loan debt is set to skyrocket. Young people 467 00:24:57,782 --> 00:25:00,861 Speaker 6: generally are a little concerned because it's adding five trillion 468 00:25:01,061 --> 00:25:03,621 Speaker 6: Australian dollars to the national debt, and that's going to 469 00:25:03,661 --> 00:25:07,141 Speaker 6: fall on younger Americans. People who believe in climate change 470 00:25:07,262 --> 00:25:10,381 Speaker 6: are losing out today, Trump says calls very beautiful and 471 00:25:10,422 --> 00:25:13,022 Speaker 6: when farms are ugly as hell. This is very much 472 00:25:13,061 --> 00:25:15,461 Speaker 6: a death sentence for wind and solar and also perhaps 473 00:25:15,542 --> 00:25:18,101 Speaker 6: for electric vehicles in the US as well. So Elon's 474 00:25:18,141 --> 00:25:21,421 Speaker 6: not pleased about that, Elon Musk. Trump wants people to 475 00:25:21,502 --> 00:25:25,022 Speaker 6: use oil and gas. Princeton researchers say that this bill 476 00:25:25,101 --> 00:25:27,622 Speaker 6: is going to increase US greenhouse emissions by more than 477 00:25:27,702 --> 00:25:31,742 Speaker 6: Australia's total emissions year on year. Oh my god, and 478 00:25:31,901 --> 00:25:35,101 Speaker 6: poor people. Three million Americans will lose access to food stamps, 479 00:25:35,101 --> 00:25:37,902 Speaker 6: which they used to buy groceries. Twelve million will lose 480 00:25:37,942 --> 00:25:40,782 Speaker 6: access to healthcare through a government program that provides it 481 00:25:40,782 --> 00:25:41,981 Speaker 6: to the poorest Americans. 482 00:25:42,381 --> 00:25:46,901 Speaker 3: Any questions, And is there even one tiny thing that's 483 00:25:46,901 --> 00:25:49,101 Speaker 3: good about this? Because this bill is like every single 484 00:25:49,141 --> 00:25:50,542 Speaker 3: bad thing you could possibly imagine. 485 00:25:50,581 --> 00:25:50,982 Speaker 5: It's done. 486 00:25:51,182 --> 00:25:54,101 Speaker 6: Yeah. Look, he has thrown some bones to poorer people, 487 00:25:54,222 --> 00:25:56,661 Speaker 6: so people who earn tips don't have to pay tax 488 00:25:56,702 --> 00:25:59,662 Speaker 6: on them. I guess that's good, even though economists say 489 00:25:59,702 --> 00:26:04,101 Speaker 6: that doesn't make sense. But you are first, no, not really. 490 00:26:04,502 --> 00:26:06,621 Speaker 1: My understanding is that this was like a nine hundred 491 00:26:06,621 --> 00:26:11,022 Speaker 1: and eighty page piece of legislation. Is common to shove 492 00:26:11,141 --> 00:26:14,621 Speaker 1: a whole lot of disparate pieces of legislation into one 493 00:26:14,861 --> 00:26:16,421 Speaker 1: and then hustle it through. 494 00:26:16,821 --> 00:26:19,941 Speaker 6: Yes, that's become increasingly common for both parties. It's because 495 00:26:19,982 --> 00:26:22,461 Speaker 6: Congress is so dysfunctional that the only way you can 496 00:26:22,502 --> 00:26:25,302 Speaker 6: pass things is by calling it a budget bill, even 497 00:26:25,341 --> 00:26:27,581 Speaker 6: when it encompasses lots of other stuff. So that is 498 00:26:27,621 --> 00:26:30,262 Speaker 6: actually a bipartisan trend in recent years. 499 00:26:30,341 --> 00:26:31,982 Speaker 1: And this is the equivalent of their budget. 500 00:26:32,262 --> 00:26:34,861 Speaker 3: Yes, And how about the Republicans? Did they all vote 501 00:26:34,861 --> 00:26:36,902 Speaker 3: for this? Did they say, all of them except two, 502 00:26:37,502 --> 00:26:39,381 Speaker 3: and one of those two didn't vote for it because 503 00:26:39,381 --> 00:26:41,821 Speaker 3: he didn't think the cuts to food stamps and health 504 00:26:41,861 --> 00:26:42,901 Speaker 3: care went far enough. 505 00:26:43,621 --> 00:26:44,181 Speaker 1: Wow. 506 00:26:44,341 --> 00:26:47,861 Speaker 3: Okay, and the Democrats are I imagine, stumping their faith. 507 00:26:47,982 --> 00:26:50,821 Speaker 6: Yeah, every Democrat voted against it, and they did sort 508 00:26:50,861 --> 00:26:52,782 Speaker 6: of all these silly things like talk. 509 00:26:52,621 --> 00:26:54,742 Speaker 1: For nine hours to try and delay the vote on 510 00:26:54,901 --> 00:26:55,542 Speaker 1: stuff like that. 511 00:26:55,742 --> 00:26:58,981 Speaker 6: But ultimately jd Vance is the tiebreaker vote in the Senate, 512 00:26:59,061 --> 00:27:00,901 Speaker 6: so he sort of swept in and made sure that 513 00:27:00,982 --> 00:27:01,502 Speaker 6: it happened. 514 00:27:02,022 --> 00:27:03,022 Speaker 1: Oh that's horrific. 515 00:27:03,341 --> 00:27:06,101 Speaker 2: Can I be very selfish and ask a question about 516 00:27:06,222 --> 00:27:08,542 Speaker 2: will this bill impact Australia? 517 00:27:08,621 --> 00:27:11,142 Speaker 6: I think it will have two. This kind of spending 518 00:27:11,182 --> 00:27:13,862 Speaker 6: has never been seen before in the US. They're basically 519 00:27:13,901 --> 00:27:17,102 Speaker 6: putting the entire country on a credit card. What that 520 00:27:17,182 --> 00:27:19,861 Speaker 6: means is there's likely to be an increase in interest rates, 521 00:27:19,901 --> 00:27:23,181 Speaker 6: and when interest rates and economic volatility increase in the US, 522 00:27:23,502 --> 00:27:27,421 Speaker 6: we inevitably see that happen in Australia. Did that answer 523 00:27:27,462 --> 00:27:28,101 Speaker 6: your question? 524 00:27:28,742 --> 00:27:31,502 Speaker 2: It did. I'm very depressed. I'm sad, but it did 525 00:27:31,542 --> 00:27:32,341 Speaker 2: answer my question. 526 00:27:33,581 --> 00:27:35,502 Speaker 1: How loud as you may have noticed that we've stopped 527 00:27:35,502 --> 00:27:38,621 Speaker 1: saying what women are talking about as a descriptor at 528 00:27:38,661 --> 00:27:40,502 Speaker 1: the start of the show, and there's a good reason 529 00:27:40,942 --> 00:27:43,381 Speaker 1: for it, and here it is. I think when we 530 00:27:43,462 --> 00:27:45,702 Speaker 1: first came up with that line, there was much more 531 00:27:45,702 --> 00:27:49,742 Speaker 1: of a monoculture women and I'm using air quotes there. 532 00:27:50,262 --> 00:27:53,661 Speaker 1: Women were generally talking about the same broad cultural and 533 00:27:53,782 --> 00:27:57,421 Speaker 1: news stories ten years ago. But now things have changed 534 00:27:57,542 --> 00:28:00,902 Speaker 1: so much, and it's all mostly down to the way 535 00:28:00,942 --> 00:28:06,061 Speaker 1: algorithms and social have really sent us down these highly specific, 536 00:28:06,621 --> 00:28:12,341 Speaker 1: individualized rabbit holes, and the monoculture's sort of been flattened 537 00:28:12,742 --> 00:28:17,061 Speaker 1: by these very specific subcultures. So you might think everyone's 538 00:28:17,101 --> 00:28:20,981 Speaker 1: talking about a specific thing, when in fact you're just 539 00:28:21,022 --> 00:28:24,941 Speaker 1: in a rabbit hole or on a particular algorithm. And 540 00:28:24,982 --> 00:28:27,621 Speaker 1: the more content you consume about that particular thing, anything 541 00:28:27,702 --> 00:28:31,262 Speaker 1: from Trump to the bezos wedding, the more of it 542 00:28:31,341 --> 00:28:34,302 Speaker 1: you'll be served, So it ends up perpetuating itself. And 543 00:28:34,341 --> 00:28:36,542 Speaker 1: the other thing that's happened is the way the algorithm 544 00:28:36,782 --> 00:28:41,062 Speaker 1: has really flattened that distinction between what's important and what's 545 00:28:41,142 --> 00:28:44,502 Speaker 1: not important, And it's often what's not important that gets 546 00:28:44,502 --> 00:28:48,102 Speaker 1: the most traction, maybe because it's a distraction, I don't know, 547 00:28:48,182 --> 00:28:53,582 Speaker 1: but TikTok is particularly rife with microdramas, very low stakes 548 00:28:54,022 --> 00:28:59,582 Speaker 1: arguments between either professional content creators having drama or just 549 00:28:59,702 --> 00:29:02,542 Speaker 1: random people who decide that they need to share something 550 00:29:02,742 --> 00:29:05,502 Speaker 1: that's going on in their life. And I just wanted 551 00:29:05,542 --> 00:29:08,102 Speaker 1: to do a quick round the grounds of some of 552 00:29:08,142 --> 00:29:11,662 Speaker 1: the microdramas we act accidentally learned about while scrolling over 553 00:29:11,702 --> 00:29:14,302 Speaker 1: the weekend. Jesse Am hit me up. 554 00:29:14,502 --> 00:29:17,862 Speaker 3: Okay, so mine has been There's a beautiful bridle store 555 00:29:18,062 --> 00:29:21,421 Speaker 3: in Sydney and you already had your wedding there. I know, 556 00:29:21,582 --> 00:29:23,822 Speaker 3: but my algorithm is like, hey, you were married, it's 557 00:29:23,982 --> 00:29:25,701 Speaker 3: time for your second wedding, all right, do you need 558 00:29:25,702 --> 00:29:29,302 Speaker 3: another dress? Basically, this bride comes out and says that 559 00:29:29,382 --> 00:29:32,062 Speaker 3: she paid fifteen thousand dollars for a wedding gown, which 560 00:29:32,142 --> 00:29:35,222 Speaker 3: is a lot, but anyway, no judgment, and it isn't 561 00:29:35,262 --> 00:29:37,142 Speaker 3: the right fit. And she says that this bridal store 562 00:29:37,182 --> 00:29:39,302 Speaker 3: has done nothing to help her. She's like, I've paid 563 00:29:39,342 --> 00:29:40,782 Speaker 3: all of this money. Now I need to do four 564 00:29:40,822 --> 00:29:43,622 Speaker 3: thousand dollars in alterations, and I keep emailing to get 565 00:29:43,661 --> 00:29:45,902 Speaker 3: help from them because they've stuffed up. This is their 566 00:29:45,942 --> 00:29:48,342 Speaker 3: issue and they're not replying, and she's really angry. 567 00:29:48,382 --> 00:29:50,262 Speaker 1: So I'm going to stop you there. That sounds like 568 00:29:50,902 --> 00:29:52,702 Speaker 1: customer service and a feedback form. 569 00:29:52,822 --> 00:29:56,382 Speaker 3: Okay, well, then what happened is that the bridal store 570 00:29:56,422 --> 00:29:58,662 Speaker 3: came out and they said, excuse me, we are being 571 00:29:58,702 --> 00:30:01,142 Speaker 3: absolutely defamed over here, and we will have you know 572 00:30:01,582 --> 00:30:03,981 Speaker 3: that the time between her getting her measurements and us 573 00:30:04,022 --> 00:30:07,142 Speaker 3: delivering the dress she ordered, she lost a significant amount 574 00:30:07,182 --> 00:30:09,302 Speaker 3: of weight and that's why it didn't fit. And I 575 00:30:09,342 --> 00:30:10,142 Speaker 3: got to the end of. 576 00:30:10,062 --> 00:30:12,142 Speaker 1: That and I was like, like, did something happen? 577 00:30:12,302 --> 00:30:14,421 Speaker 3: Now they're meeting in person? I think today. I think 578 00:30:14,462 --> 00:30:17,222 Speaker 3: they're sitting down for a meeting today, and I kind 579 00:30:17,222 --> 00:30:18,781 Speaker 3: of know where the story is so I could go 580 00:30:18,822 --> 00:30:21,501 Speaker 3: and hang out there. But I didn't need to know 581 00:30:21,542 --> 00:30:23,622 Speaker 3: any of that. In fact, that was an email chain 582 00:30:23,782 --> 00:30:27,262 Speaker 3: that I was compied into. Yes that I don't need. 583 00:30:27,502 --> 00:30:29,382 Speaker 3: I have no say. I've been c seed on an 584 00:30:29,422 --> 00:30:32,782 Speaker 3: email chain that is none of my business. Go sort 585 00:30:32,822 --> 00:30:35,622 Speaker 3: it out. Why am I being brought into this? M 586 00:30:35,661 --> 00:30:37,102 Speaker 3: What drama have you been consuming? 587 00:30:37,382 --> 00:30:40,862 Speaker 2: Okay, so Fourth of July recently happened on the fourth 588 00:30:40,862 --> 00:30:42,022 Speaker 2: of July in the US. 589 00:30:42,142 --> 00:30:44,022 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that was just last week, the fourth 590 00:30:44,022 --> 00:30:45,302 Speaker 3: of ve Yeah. 591 00:30:45,502 --> 00:30:48,021 Speaker 2: There was this woman who came up on my TikTok 592 00:30:48,062 --> 00:30:50,302 Speaker 2: feed balling her eyes out. She's sitting in the car, 593 00:30:50,462 --> 00:30:52,382 Speaker 2: balling her eyes out, and it was story. 594 00:30:52,102 --> 00:30:53,862 Speaker 3: Time gets me every time? 595 00:30:54,342 --> 00:30:57,342 Speaker 2: What happened to you everytime? So she was saying, how 596 00:30:57,342 --> 00:30:59,661 Speaker 2: it was Fourth of July and she's new to the 597 00:30:59,742 --> 00:31:02,302 Speaker 2: area and she's a single mom with kids, and she 598 00:31:02,382 --> 00:31:06,862 Speaker 2: was invited by one of her kids parents to a party, 599 00:31:06,902 --> 00:31:08,862 Speaker 2: a Fourth of July party, which is a huge, huge 600 00:31:08,902 --> 00:31:10,502 Speaker 2: deal in America. You don't want to spend Fourth of 601 00:31:10,582 --> 00:31:13,382 Speaker 2: July alone. So she went to this party. She bought 602 00:31:13,382 --> 00:31:16,262 Speaker 2: a salad that she said cost her forty dollars to make. 603 00:31:16,302 --> 00:31:18,822 Speaker 3: Why do I know how much? This frandom moment and. 604 00:31:18,742 --> 00:31:21,022 Speaker 2: She also put a photo in it and looked really good. 605 00:31:21,062 --> 00:31:22,542 Speaker 2: It was like an antipesto situation. 606 00:31:22,582 --> 00:31:23,662 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, that's important. 607 00:31:24,262 --> 00:31:27,102 Speaker 2: Sally expends and stuff. And she says she got there 608 00:31:27,182 --> 00:31:29,181 Speaker 2: and then she was like introducing herself to everyone, but 609 00:31:29,182 --> 00:31:33,342 Speaker 2: everyone seemed very cold. And then suddenly like the woman 610 00:31:33,422 --> 00:31:36,382 Speaker 2: who owns the house came in and was like, why 611 00:31:36,382 --> 00:31:39,782 Speaker 2: are you here, Like you went invited. She felt very like, 612 00:31:39,782 --> 00:31:41,662 Speaker 2: oh my god, I thought I was invited, Like why 613 00:31:41,702 --> 00:31:43,862 Speaker 2: is everyone being so mean? To me and then like 614 00:31:43,982 --> 00:31:46,701 Speaker 2: have a great drive back, like really sarcastically, and she 615 00:31:46,782 --> 00:31:48,582 Speaker 2: was so so upset she had to bring her kids 616 00:31:48,622 --> 00:31:51,382 Speaker 2: back in her car. Her friend who invited her apologized 617 00:31:51,661 --> 00:31:53,822 Speaker 2: and she drove back and she said she ruined her 618 00:31:53,822 --> 00:31:57,102 Speaker 2: son's Fourth of July and that story like lived with 619 00:31:57,142 --> 00:31:59,102 Speaker 2: me for the whole weekend. I was so upset. I 620 00:31:59,182 --> 00:32:01,062 Speaker 2: was like, this poor woman. I wonder what she's going 621 00:32:01,102 --> 00:32:02,701 Speaker 2: to do. Now, what's it going to be like at school? 622 00:32:02,782 --> 00:32:06,102 Speaker 1: Don't see see me, don't see see me. I've got 623 00:32:06,182 --> 00:32:08,342 Speaker 1: There are two that I had on the weekend. One 624 00:32:08,422 --> 00:32:14,142 Speaker 1: is an influencer called Sarah's Day Gore is Elijah. Yeah, 625 00:32:14,502 --> 00:32:18,701 Speaker 1: yeah you on this she was happened to do a 626 00:32:18,742 --> 00:32:22,582 Speaker 1: fragrance collaboration with a female founded fragrance brand called who 627 00:32:22,622 --> 00:32:23,182 Speaker 1: Is Elijah? 628 00:32:23,222 --> 00:32:23,902 Speaker 2: Who Is Elijah? 629 00:32:23,942 --> 00:32:27,461 Speaker 1: I think I might have some of those. They're not 630 00:32:27,502 --> 00:32:31,822 Speaker 1: doing it anymore, but we don't know why. And so 631 00:32:31,862 --> 00:32:35,421 Speaker 1: there's a statement from all statements everyone's been making statements, 632 00:32:35,582 --> 00:32:38,742 Speaker 1: don't see me, Like sometimes business things don't work out. 633 00:32:38,782 --> 00:32:40,661 Speaker 1: I didn't need to know that. I want to be 634 00:32:40,702 --> 00:32:43,981 Speaker 1: removed from this nighted. The other one is a content 635 00:32:44,062 --> 00:32:48,502 Speaker 1: creator who I don't know accused another content creator who 636 00:32:48,542 --> 00:32:51,662 Speaker 1: I also don't know, of copying her content, which I've 637 00:32:51,661 --> 00:32:54,262 Speaker 1: never seen before. But then, of course, now I've gone 638 00:32:54,262 --> 00:32:56,702 Speaker 1: and seen both of their content, and do you think inside? 639 00:32:57,302 --> 00:33:00,022 Speaker 1: I don't care. I want to be just. I wanted 640 00:33:00,062 --> 00:33:03,702 Speaker 1: to remove Mia has left the chat, except the chat 641 00:33:03,742 --> 00:33:07,302 Speaker 1: is the Internet. And then a third content creator then 642 00:33:07,382 --> 00:33:10,542 Speaker 1: came and weighed in on her opinion, and I also 643 00:33:10,702 --> 00:33:14,741 Speaker 1: was dissed by this, for I can't. 644 00:33:14,742 --> 00:33:19,582 Speaker 3: What's happening here is that content needs a hero and 645 00:33:19,622 --> 00:33:21,941 Speaker 3: a villain, right, we need to be rooting for someone, 646 00:33:21,942 --> 00:33:25,501 Speaker 3: and I think that's why that content is so addictive. 647 00:33:25,622 --> 00:33:27,742 Speaker 1: But none of this is any of my business. Why 648 00:33:28,661 --> 00:33:31,221 Speaker 1: is everything and maybe this is ironic because we're in 649 00:33:31,222 --> 00:33:35,542 Speaker 1: a podcast, but why is everything performed for an audience? 650 00:33:35,582 --> 00:33:35,742 Speaker 6: Well? 651 00:33:35,782 --> 00:33:37,462 Speaker 3: I think that there's a few things right. I'm thinking 652 00:33:37,502 --> 00:33:39,222 Speaker 3: about the fourth of July woman. I'm thinking about the 653 00:33:39,222 --> 00:33:42,221 Speaker 3: Brighter Woman. You have two choices in those situations. You 654 00:33:42,262 --> 00:33:44,382 Speaker 3: could confront the person that you're having the issue with 655 00:33:44,862 --> 00:33:50,142 Speaker 3: directly and have it out privately, or you could find 656 00:33:50,182 --> 00:33:53,182 Speaker 3: that confrontation too much and you could go and privately 657 00:33:53,262 --> 00:33:56,382 Speaker 3: in your living room, quietly, with no two eyes in 658 00:33:56,422 --> 00:34:00,702 Speaker 3: front of you and no one to maybe challenge your 659 00:34:00,782 --> 00:34:03,461 Speaker 3: version of events, yell at the internet. And I know 660 00:34:03,502 --> 00:34:06,181 Speaker 3: which one's easier, the yelling at the internet, right. And 661 00:34:06,222 --> 00:34:09,582 Speaker 3: it's the equivalent of Jesse going to dinner, which I 662 00:34:09,582 --> 00:34:12,781 Speaker 3: did last night, and telling a story about Luca where 663 00:34:12,862 --> 00:34:14,781 Speaker 3: Luca has no right of reply. And I can tell 664 00:34:14,822 --> 00:34:17,222 Speaker 3: you in that story there is a hero and a villain. Yeah, 665 00:34:17,262 --> 00:34:22,262 Speaker 3: And what I don't need is anyone to cross examine 666 00:34:22,302 --> 00:34:23,542 Speaker 3: Luca on the witness stand that. 667 00:34:23,781 --> 00:34:25,582 Speaker 1: He doesn't need to make a real in response. 668 00:34:25,661 --> 00:34:27,422 Speaker 3: He doesn't need, he does not need to get to 669 00:34:27,462 --> 00:34:29,982 Speaker 3: tell my narrative. I get a lot of people to 670 00:34:30,022 --> 00:34:32,422 Speaker 3: applaud me and go, Jesse, you are so right, and 671 00:34:32,462 --> 00:34:34,422 Speaker 3: I go, yes, I know I am so right, and 672 00:34:34,462 --> 00:34:36,701 Speaker 3: then I move on with my life. It's the equivalent 673 00:34:36,741 --> 00:34:38,942 Speaker 3: of the dinner table, where you just need people to 674 00:34:39,022 --> 00:34:41,222 Speaker 3: kind of give you that positive reinforcement I think. 675 00:34:41,102 --> 00:34:42,382 Speaker 1: And main character energy. 676 00:34:42,582 --> 00:34:42,942 Speaker 3: Yeah. 677 00:34:42,982 --> 00:34:44,622 Speaker 2: But then don't she run the risk? Like I think 678 00:34:44,622 --> 00:34:47,062 Speaker 2: about my fourth of July person, And doesn't she run 679 00:34:47,062 --> 00:34:49,301 Speaker 2: the risk? Because now she's gone so viral, like she's 680 00:34:49,462 --> 00:34:54,102 Speaker 2: everywhere and I have notifications turned on for her because 681 00:34:54,181 --> 00:34:57,661 Speaker 2: I am waiting for a response from someone at the 682 00:34:57,701 --> 00:34:58,902 Speaker 2: actual party. 683 00:34:58,622 --> 00:35:01,341 Speaker 3: Because I think her story is not true. I mean, 684 00:35:01,701 --> 00:35:04,542 Speaker 3: I had some questions about what occurred because I think 685 00:35:04,582 --> 00:35:06,661 Speaker 3: she walked in and she did something unusual, because you 686 00:35:06,701 --> 00:35:08,542 Speaker 3: look at it and you go Doctor Phil used to 687 00:35:08,542 --> 00:35:11,022 Speaker 3: have a line where it was like, if it doesn't 688 00:35:11,062 --> 00:35:13,301 Speaker 3: make sense, come on, there's got to be one of us. 689 00:35:13,542 --> 00:35:14,462 Speaker 2: You need all the povs. 690 00:35:14,701 --> 00:35:16,062 Speaker 3: Yeah, I need all of the point of view. 691 00:35:16,102 --> 00:35:18,701 Speaker 1: But maybe this is just I guess, but it works 692 00:35:18,741 --> 00:35:18,942 Speaker 1: for you. 693 00:35:19,022 --> 00:35:21,982 Speaker 2: Men know those stories, so like you were in it. 694 00:35:22,261 --> 00:35:23,341 Speaker 2: You're invested at a point. 695 00:35:23,382 --> 00:35:26,542 Speaker 1: But I don't care. I'm not saying I'm so clever 696 00:35:26,661 --> 00:35:29,502 Speaker 1: and I'm just, you know, such an intellectual that I'm 697 00:35:29,502 --> 00:35:33,742 Speaker 1: not interested in microdramas. I am, but it's quite hard 698 00:35:33,741 --> 00:35:36,502 Speaker 1: to hold them all in your head when you're following, 699 00:35:36,741 --> 00:35:40,701 Speaker 1: like it's almost like a passive thing where and then 700 00:35:40,741 --> 00:35:41,542 Speaker 1: you're suddenly in it. 701 00:35:41,622 --> 00:35:43,941 Speaker 3: Yes, it's a new and beautiful I reckon. It's how 702 00:35:43,982 --> 00:35:47,862 Speaker 3: we are consuming. We've always needed this, We've always needed 703 00:35:48,181 --> 00:35:51,542 Speaker 3: like little gossipy French Revolution times the first time they 704 00:35:51,542 --> 00:35:54,622 Speaker 3: had a printing press, so they had little gossip sections 705 00:35:54,661 --> 00:35:58,661 Speaker 3: because they were like everyone Regiton needs a little bitch sometimes, 706 00:35:59,022 --> 00:36:02,822 Speaker 3: and I feel as though that's now moved to TikTok, 707 00:36:02,862 --> 00:36:05,781 Speaker 3: where it's I love something that's low steaks, no one dies, 708 00:36:06,221 --> 00:36:10,502 Speaker 3: there's no massive accusations at play. And in the defense 709 00:36:10,542 --> 00:36:13,301 Speaker 3: of some like who among us has not had a 710 00:36:13,342 --> 00:36:15,421 Speaker 3: moment where we have felt hard done by and thought 711 00:36:15,701 --> 00:36:17,341 Speaker 3: I'd love to go and spray them on the dae. 712 00:36:17,382 --> 00:36:20,701 Speaker 1: Yeah, But the difference in all seriousness, and I also 713 00:36:20,902 --> 00:36:24,822 Speaker 1: understand that very human desire to when you feel wronged, 714 00:36:25,221 --> 00:36:25,821 Speaker 1: you want to go. 715 00:36:26,062 --> 00:36:28,062 Speaker 3: It's your only power, but you want to. 716 00:36:27,982 --> 00:36:31,382 Speaker 1: Find someone who will go that's fucked what happened to you. However, 717 00:36:31,422 --> 00:36:35,622 Speaker 1: when you do it online, there are real world consequences 718 00:36:35,622 --> 00:36:37,661 Speaker 1: for those other people that you're talking about, whether it's 719 00:36:37,701 --> 00:36:41,622 Speaker 1: a brand, whether it's an individual, and they didn't necessarily 720 00:36:41,701 --> 00:36:43,701 Speaker 1: want to be brought into this narrative either. So the 721 00:36:43,741 --> 00:36:47,261 Speaker 1: decision to then create content about a private situation, whether 722 00:36:47,261 --> 00:36:51,301 Speaker 1: it's a transaction or a business transaction, or a social transaction, 723 00:36:51,462 --> 00:36:54,661 Speaker 1: or a breakup or something that's gone wrong, you're then 724 00:36:54,741 --> 00:36:58,701 Speaker 1: opening that person up to huge real works. 725 00:36:58,741 --> 00:37:01,582 Speaker 3: But I suppose that's the democratization of the phone, right is, 726 00:37:01,582 --> 00:37:03,261 Speaker 3: because it's the one thing that we all have. And 727 00:37:03,302 --> 00:37:05,942 Speaker 3: I remember having a situation with an airline right this 728 00:37:06,102 --> 00:37:08,821 Speaker 3: was overseas and an airline that screwed me over so much, 729 00:37:08,862 --> 00:37:11,142 Speaker 3: and I was like, I just want to post because 730 00:37:11,181 --> 00:37:13,661 Speaker 3: I know that if I post, I didn't but if 731 00:37:13,701 --> 00:37:16,502 Speaker 3: I did, then they'd have to respond. And they are 732 00:37:16,542 --> 00:37:20,582 Speaker 3: treating me like a bug on the bottom of their shoe, 733 00:37:20,622 --> 00:37:23,062 Speaker 3: like they don't care about me. It was like, this 734 00:37:23,181 --> 00:37:26,181 Speaker 3: terrible customer service. What power do you have other than 735 00:37:26,221 --> 00:37:28,102 Speaker 3: spraying them on the internet. So I think that that's 736 00:37:28,102 --> 00:37:31,022 Speaker 3: where we all find ourselves. A big thank you to 737 00:37:31,102 --> 00:37:33,102 Speaker 3: all of you, the out louders for listening to today's 738 00:37:33,102 --> 00:37:36,422 Speaker 3: show and our fabulous team for putting this show together, 739 00:37:36,661 --> 00:37:40,261 Speaker 3: and out Louders, if you liked Amelia's very helpful explanation 740 00:37:40,422 --> 00:37:43,942 Speaker 3: all as today, then we have trapped in the studio 741 00:37:44,102 --> 00:37:46,102 Speaker 3: and we've gone. There are a few other terms we 742 00:37:46,142 --> 00:37:48,102 Speaker 3: would like you to explain to us. There is so 743 00:37:48,221 --> 00:37:52,221 Speaker 3: much happening in the US, from Alligator Alcatraz to the 744 00:37:52,261 --> 00:37:54,622 Speaker 3: bill that everyone's talking about, to what the hell is 745 00:37:54,661 --> 00:37:58,301 Speaker 3: going on with Elon that we wanted explained. It is 746 00:37:58,542 --> 00:38:01,542 Speaker 3: such a fascinating episode that is going live tomorrow, so 747 00:38:01,622 --> 00:38:03,741 Speaker 3: keep an eye out for that. For all our subscribers, 748 00:38:04,022 --> 00:38:08,142 Speaker 3: we will be back in your ears tomorrow. Bye bye bye, 749 00:38:08,741 --> 00:38:11,262 Speaker 3: shout out to any he Mum and me are subscribers listening. 750 00:38:11,542 --> 00:38:13,661 Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us, 751 00:38:13,942 --> 00:38:16,821 Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to 752 00:38:16,902 --> 00:38:19,342 Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description