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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: mom and Mia out loud. What women are actually talking

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Speaker 2: about on Wednesday, the eleventh of December. I'm Holly Wainwright,

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Speaker 2: I'm MEA Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens and on the

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Speaker 2: show today explaining the disturbing jay Z allegations that ended

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Speaker 2: up all over the red carpet of a massive new

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Speaker 2: Hollywood movie this week. Also, can You Copyright Your Vibe?

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Speaker 2: And the children's book I read to my kids every

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Speaker 2: night for years has just been unmasked as the primary

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Speaker 2: reason for generation anxious. Time to throw rainbow fish back, friends,

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Speaker 2: but first mea Friedman.

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Speaker 1: In case you missed it, Get the ice cream ready,

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Speaker 1: warm up the hot water bottle. Today is the day

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Speaker 1: couples are most likely to break up.

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Speaker 2: Why. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: The eleventh of December is the most common day of

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Speaker 1: the year for couples to split, and the date was

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Speaker 1: worked out from researchers who analyzed Facebook data.

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Speaker 3: Ah, so you go from in a couple to single?

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Speaker 2: Correct?

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Speaker 1: And the December period more broadly is known as breakup season.

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Speaker 1: So even if you manage to get through today, don't

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Speaker 1: count your chickens, because it could still happen.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say, the day is young.

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Speaker 3: As we're recording this, there is still half a day

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Speaker 3: for us to beat DOMP.

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Speaker 2: And the thing could happen when I get home tonight.

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Speaker 1: Psychotherapist and relationship expert Lyssi Abraham's told MoMA Mia that

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Speaker 1: this time period can lead to increased tension because of

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Speaker 1: all the stress that comes along with it. But we

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Speaker 1: had a few other reasons that we thought about. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you don't want to buy gifts because he lives.

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Speaker 3: Yes. I also I remember this time being with someone

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Speaker 3: and thinking I don't want him to come to my

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Speaker 3: family Christmas. And if you're in a relationship with someone,

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Speaker 3: they kind of think they're coming, and it's probably a

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Speaker 3: red flag when you go I'm embarrassed to introduce you

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Speaker 3: to my family.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And other people are like, I can't do one

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Speaker 1: more Christmas with her family? Yeah, and you go in.

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Speaker 3: It's a time of change, I suppose, because I think

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Speaker 3: we're all beginning to imagine the new year and who

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Speaker 3: we want to be, and some changes we want to

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Speaker 3: make and you don't want to go into the new

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Speaker 3: year with the person you.

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Speaker 1: Want to relaunch in the new year if you've got

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Speaker 1: a bit of ick.

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Speaker 3: I also think the festive season is quite social, so

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Speaker 3: if you want to put yourself back on the market,

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Speaker 3: you don't want to miss out on December mingling.

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Speaker 2: No New Year's Eve, all those things you want to

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Speaker 2: because if you broke up today, it's still a good

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Speaker 2: three weeks before New Year's Eve, so it would be

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Speaker 2: socially acceptable for you to be flirting. Hear us off

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Speaker 2: yew Year's Eve party, exactly right.

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Speaker 1: The good news is that breakups on Christmas Day drop

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Speaker 1: super dramatically because I guess no one wants to be

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Speaker 1: that dick.

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Speaker 2: Who's got time for that. Jay Z has won twenty

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Speaker 2: four Grammys, he sold one hundred and forty million records,

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Speaker 2: He was the first hip hop billionaire, now worth a

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Speaker 2: reported two point five billion US dollars, and of course

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Speaker 2: he's mister Beyonce Knowles. And now he is also a

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Speaker 2: man who has been accused of child rape in the

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Speaker 2: most controversial of circumstances. If you've seen those headlines, here's

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Speaker 2: a quick explainer before we go into how all this

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Speaker 2: disturbing mess ended up on the red carpet of the

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Speaker 2: latest Lion King movie. Jay Z's real name is Sean Carter,

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Speaker 2: and here's long time mates with another Sean Sean Coombs,

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Speaker 2: otherwise known as p Diddy, who is currently in prison

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Speaker 2: in Brooklyn denied bail. He keeps offering fifty million dollars

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Speaker 2: bail to get out while he awaits trial. He's on

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Speaker 2: criminal charges of sex trafficking, racketeering, and transportation to engage

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Speaker 2: in prostitution. That court case is going to start in

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Speaker 2: May next year, and it's going to be huge and harrowing.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, more than one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 2: cases of sexual misconduct and assault involving Diddy are being

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Speaker 2: filed through civil court, mostly through one lawyer, a guy

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Speaker 2: named Tony Busby, who we will get to in a minute.

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Speaker 2: As we discussed a few weeks ago, charges brought through

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Speaker 2: civil court bear a lower burden of proof than criminal

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Speaker 2: cannot carry a jail term, and are often settled with

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Speaker 2: a financial payout. Many of the cases around Diddy center

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Speaker 2: around the so called free coughs that he held for decades,

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Speaker 2: basically sex parties that involved drugs, sex workers being paid

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Speaker 2: to perform, and allegedly the abuse of many of the

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Speaker 2: women in attendance. But what happened this week is that

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Speaker 2: for the first time, one of those civil claims named

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Speaker 2: jay Z. An unnamed woman says that jay Z and

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Speaker 2: Coombs drugged and raped her when she was thirteen years

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Speaker 2: old and at an after party following the two thousand VMAs.

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Speaker 2: The case also alleges that a famous woman named in

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Speaker 2: the case as Celebrity B watched the assault take place. Now,

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Speaker 2: this particular accusation isn't new. It was filed in October,

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Speaker 2: but at the time it only named Diddy and then

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Speaker 2: referred to Celebrity A and Celebrity B as having also

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Speaker 2: been in the room. But on Monday, Celebrity A was

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Speaker 2: named as jay Z. Now it's not a surprise that

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Speaker 2: at some point Carter was going to be implicated in

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Speaker 2: the Kumb's case. The pair have been friends for decades,

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Speaker 2: have been in business together, and Carter was a fixture

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Speaker 2: at many of Kuhm's parties. And he was clearly prepared

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Speaker 2: because he came out swinging immediately, saying that he'd been

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Speaker 2: blackmailed by an unscrupulous lawyer who had demanded money, or

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Speaker 2: he would name that Jay was celebrity.

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Speaker 1: A That statement was quite extraordinary, wasn't it?

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Speaker 2: It was. It's long and angry, and it says, among

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Speaker 2: other things, my lawyer received a blackmail attempt called a

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Speaker 2: demand letter from a lawyer. He puts lawyer in inverted

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Speaker 2: commas named Tony Busby. What he had calculated was the

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Speaker 2: nature of these allegations and the public scrutiny would make

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Speaker 2: me want to settle, No, sir, it had the opposite effect,

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Speaker 2: exclamation mark. It made me want to expose you for

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Speaker 2: the fraud you are in a very public fashion. So no,

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Speaker 2: I will not give you one redpenny. These allegations are

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Speaker 2: so heenous in nature that I am iplaw you to

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Speaker 2: file a criminal complaint, not a civil one. Whomever would

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Speaker 2: commit such a crime against a minor should be locked away.

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Speaker 2: Would you not agree these alleged victims would deserve real

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Speaker 2: justice if that were the case.

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Speaker 1: What did you guys think of this statement?

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Speaker 3: I had never seen a celebrity denial like this. This

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Speaker 3: was different in a lot of ways. It was such

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Speaker 3: a strong denial firstly, but the other thing is that

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Speaker 3: not only did it discredit the lawsuit, but it went

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Speaker 3: really hard on the lawyer, which you don't often see.

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Speaker 3: And there's a reason that he took aim at Buzzby,

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Speaker 3: and the reason is that he is known as having

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Speaker 3: a really aggressive way of forcing settlements and that can

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Speaker 3: be to go to the person privately and reveal and

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Speaker 3: he's admitted this, try and put a whole lot of

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Speaker 3: embarrassing things out there and kind of go if you

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Speaker 3: don't set or we're going to make this public. He

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Speaker 3: is really interested in high profile cases. He was involved

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Speaker 3: in the Travis Scott Astro world. I think it was

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Speaker 3: like a class action suit. Remember that there was a

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Speaker 3: concert and there was a crowd surge and members of diect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is this something that I have a bit of

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Speaker 1: a This is tricky and again many things can be

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Speaker 1: true at once, which adds to the complexity of this.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean his victims aren't real, and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean what happened didn't happen. And yes, also jay Z

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Speaker 1: is entitled to the presumption of innocence until he's found

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Speaker 1: guilty in a court. All of those things are true,

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Speaker 1: and mediation is usually what's recommended before you go to court.

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Speaker 3: I think it's worth noting though, that this is not

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Speaker 3: a Gloria Alred. There are cases where it's a really

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Speaker 3: respected lawyer who fights for you know, women's rights, victims rights,

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Speaker 3: And again, you're absolutely right. But what's interesting about this

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Speaker 3: lawyer is even I was looking at him, he's got

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Speaker 3: quite a high profile. He has political aspirations, and on

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Speaker 3: his Instagram profile he has like, I've won ten billion

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Speaker 3: dollars in damages. So what jay Z is trying to

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Speaker 3: say here about money and a civil case as opposed

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Speaker 3: to the federal charges that are against Diddy is an

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Speaker 3: interesting one. Buzzby has also set up a one eight

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Speaker 3: hundred number for people who are accusing Diddy or anyone

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Speaker 3: else of particular crimes.

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Speaker 2: So they're soliciting for women to come forward, and there

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Speaker 2: is some criticism, And now there's argubardi between jay Z's

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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer who just was representing Alec Baldwin and

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Speaker 2: has represented Elon mask. There's Argubardie now of him saying

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Speaker 2: you're literally enticing these women to lie for money. But

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Speaker 2: don't you think it's also as Mia says, in fact,

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Speaker 2: that the two things can be true. There's the truth

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Speaker 2: for money exactly, because this might also be the victims

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Speaker 2: of Diddy over many years. This might be their only

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Speaker 2: chance to get anything that looks like some kind of

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Speaker 2: justice because it's not all going to go through legal court.

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Speaker 2: And I mean did he is facing undoubtedly jail time,

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Speaker 2: but all of these individual women, the civil route might

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Speaker 2: be their only way to get something like.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that there are so many women we've

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Speaker 3: seen even with Bill Cosby, Like there's power in that

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Speaker 3: solidarity with a lot of women coming together and telling

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Speaker 3: the same story.

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Speaker 1: And also how class actions work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like let's not forget as you were saying,

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Speaker 3: Holly jay Z is worth two point five billion dollars,

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Speaker 3: how do you not take a man like that down?

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Speaker 3: But how do you even accuse a man like that

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Speaker 3: without the power of someone like this lawyer. So a

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Speaker 3: lot of people are kind of going into his backstory

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Speaker 3: and looking at some questionable things. And so I understand

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Speaker 3: why that was part of the pr strategy to be like,

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Speaker 3: not only am I saying I didn't do it, Not

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Speaker 3: only am I saying I'm thinking of all victims. But

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Speaker 3: if this were true, then why wouldn't you go for

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Speaker 3: something bigger than just money? But it's also saying this

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Speaker 3: lawyer cannot be trusted.

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Speaker 1: There are two ways of looking at that statement that

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Speaker 1: Jay Z released, that was very long, that was clearly

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Speaker 1: not vetted by PR people because it was full of

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Speaker 1: exclamation marks. It did a couple of things. It centered

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Speaker 1: his denial, like almost above the accusation, because it meant

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Speaker 1: that his denial had to be pretty much published in full.

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Speaker 1: He got to say a lot of things in that denial,

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Speaker 1: and he got to it could be said, he got

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Speaker 1: to smear the lawyer. He got to make accusations of

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Speaker 1: his own against the lawyer, and in a lot of

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Speaker 1: the coverage, as I've read, a lot of media put

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Speaker 1: that before the actual charges. So it really did center

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Speaker 1: his defense. And there's something called DAVO, which is a

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Speaker 1: tactic that's often used by a perpetrator or an alleged perpetrator.

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Speaker 1: It stands for deny, attack, reverse victim offender. You deny

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Speaker 1: that you did it, you attack someone. If you can't

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Speaker 1: attack the victim, you attack the lawyer, and you reverse,

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Speaker 1: so you make it seem like you're the victim. So, yes,

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Speaker 1: I've been attacked. He's coming after me because I've got money.

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Speaker 1: This is a blackmail attempt, and suddenly the narrative is

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Speaker 1: very different. That's what you would do if it was true,

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Speaker 1: and that's what you would also do if it was

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Speaker 1: not true.

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Speaker 3: Because the thing that I first saw was that jay

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Speaker 3: Z had been accused, and that is enormous, enormous news.

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Speaker 3: He is one of the most powerful, richest men in America,

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Speaker 3: Like that is really really big. But I think that

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Speaker 3: the reason why this has been such a big deal

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Speaker 3: is because he had actually sued prior to all of

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Speaker 3: this coming out, So that had been happening privately.

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Speaker 1: Do you mean jay Z had tried to yes, Sue, Yes.

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Speaker 3: So that had been happening under the name John Doe. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that had been happening behind the scenes. Which brings us

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Speaker 3: to Celebrity B. So we knew that there was another celebrity.

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Speaker 1: Who is named Celebrity B exactly.

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Speaker 3: Which is that there was a woman in the room

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Speaker 3: and that has been a point of enormous discussion and

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Speaker 3: speculation about who that might be because it's which is awful,

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Speaker 3: Which is awful, but I also get it because this

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Speaker 3: is to me, this is like a Jeffrey Epstein level

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Speaker 3: lifting the lid on this subculture it's like we assume

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Speaker 3: the worst of celebrities anyway. These are the most powerful

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Speaker 3: people in the world, and the accusations I'm so boring.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we assume the worst of all celebrities.

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Speaker 1: I don't. But I think if you've been best friends

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Speaker 1: with p Diddy for thirty years, when these allegations have

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Speaker 1: been widely known within the industry for a really long time,

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Speaker 1: and now when you see what the criminal charges are

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Speaker 1: against Diddy over decades, and you see what we all

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Speaker 1: saw with that footage of him beating up his ex

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Speaker 1: girlfriend Cassie, you would have to say there are some

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Speaker 1: doubts cast over how much you did or didn't know

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: The thing that troubles me about the celebrity b obsession

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Speaker 2: and I've heard all the same rumors that everyone listening

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Speaker 2: to this I'm sure has heard, and that been circulating

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Speaker 2: around the internet, around the office about who that is

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Speaker 2: and why that might be and blah blah blah. Is

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Speaker 2: that beyond the fact that jay Z, as you say,

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Speaker 2: one of the richest most powerful men in America in

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Speaker 2: pop culture currency, The fact that he's married to Beyonce

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Speaker 2: is as interesting as anything else right. We joke that

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Speaker 2: on out loud we like to refer to male celebrities,

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Speaker 2: but which women they're married to. So in my mind,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think I can't think of any of

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Speaker 2: his songs. Well I can because I'll go into that later.

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Speaker 2: But he's also missed a Beyonce right and that. So

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Speaker 2: this also spins into the celebrity fallout from this, which

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Speaker 2: was then immediately on display on this red carpet the

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Speaker 2: following day. Because timing is everything, the story got released

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Speaker 2: on Monday our time, Sunday their time, and immediately there

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Speaker 2: was a whuha because Tina Noles, Beyonce's mum, very famous mum,

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Speaker 2: appeared to like a post from a news outlet that

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Speaker 2: reported it. So everyone was like, whoa, can we pause

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Speaker 2: on that?

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Speaker 3: What do we think happened? Because she's come out and

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Speaker 3: said she was hacked?

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Speaker 1: She and she.

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Speaker 2: Immediately said she was hacked, which is a modern classic.

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Speaker 2: That's what you do. You like a post by mistake,

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Speaker 2: and then you say it wasn't me, I was hacked.

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Speaker 3: Because everyone gets hacked just so that someone can like

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Speaker 3: random posts.

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Speaker 2: But you think it might be more of a boomer issue.

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Speaker 3: I do, because at first I went, oh, my goodness,

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Speaker 3: this makes him look guilty. This looks like Beyonce's mother

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Speaker 3: has been sitting on this for ages, and she's like,

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Speaker 3: finally he's been outed. And then I learned a little

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Speaker 3: bit about our friend Tina, she's seventy and some of

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Speaker 3: her social media behavior, and I went, oh, no, if

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Speaker 3: this were my mum, she would absolutely accidentally like this post.

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Speaker 3: Not accidentally, she would like it because she thinks it

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Speaker 3: means that she's telling people she's seen it. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: it's sort of buying it off as checks I've seen this,

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Speaker 3: or I'm sending jay Z love or whoever.

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Speaker 1: So to complicate things, and I agreed, is a modern classic.

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Speaker 1: I have been hacked. My social media has been hacked

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Speaker 1: and someone tweeted something embarrassing about me from my account.

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Speaker 1: This is back in the day of Twitter. So look,

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Speaker 1: there's plausible deny.

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Speaker 2: They already there.

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Speaker 1: She could have been hacked, but I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: probably more like a hay Boomer situation.

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Speaker 2: Tina says, I don't play when it comes to my family,

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Speaker 2: which basically she means she doesn't gossip about it. Was

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Speaker 2: she doesn't, She says, if you see so if you

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Speaker 2: see anything like this from me, No, it wasn't me,

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Speaker 2: which is also quite a good cloak. But Mia then

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Speaker 2: we come to the Red Carpet because the following day

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest holiday movie releases comes out, Mafassa,

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Speaker 2: which is a Lion King spinoff, and both Beyonce and

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Speaker 2: Her and jay Z's daughter Blue Ivy have roles in

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Speaker 2: that movie. They have speaking, singing roles in that movie.

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Speaker 2: So the Red Carpet, they're there, and does jay Z

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Speaker 2: go the day after he has been accused of a

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Speaker 2: Heenus crime and vehemently denied it. Of course he does, Maya,

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Speaker 2: what was that about?

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Speaker 1: That is a rich text if you watch the coverage

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Speaker 1: of that Red carpet, It is a rich text for

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Speaker 1: so many reasons. Blue Ivy has a starring role in

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Speaker 1: this movie, Mafasa. It's a sort of sequel to The

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Speaker 1: Lion King, and she plays the daughter of I think

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Speaker 1: Nala and Simp. So this was her time to shine.

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Speaker 1: This is her moment. This is kind of like Apple

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Speaker 1: Martin at the Debutante Ball, except she actually did a

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Speaker 1: thing instead of just wearing a dress and turning up.

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Speaker 1: She's twelve and she's wearing this incredible gold princess gown.

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Speaker 1: She looks incredible, she's very tall. And the reason it's

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Speaker 1: such a rich text. Before jay Z even arrives on

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Speaker 1: the red carpet is that usually Beyonce doesn't do red carpets.

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Speaker 1: She usually has her own paparazzi photographer. She comes either

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Speaker 1: right at the end, her photographer takes photos and releases them,

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Speaker 1: and she doesn't pose next to anyone. She's very, very

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Speaker 1: particular about what she does. She's earned that right. But

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Speaker 1: as any mother of a tween or teen daughter will

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Speaker 1: recognize the body language. If you watch the not just

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Speaker 1: the still photos, but the footage of this blue Ivy's

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Speaker 1: on the red carpet on her own, looking amazing, and

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Speaker 1: then Beyonce like apologetically scurries just to stand next to her.

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Speaker 1: She's in a much smaller dress so as not to

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Speaker 1: upstage her. She looks super proud. But there's all of that,

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Speaker 1: and then jay Z arrives and when you look at

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Speaker 1: the rictus grin on Beyonce's face, she's at work, she's

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Speaker 1: supporting her daughter, she's doing what she needs to do.

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Speaker 1: She looks like I can't even explain how she looks,

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Speaker 1: and then jay Z's trying to be like cool and

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Speaker 1: they're all trying to be like yep, we're just a

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Speaker 1: happy family. Nothing to see here.

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Speaker 2: There's a world in which he didn't go to that right, Like,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it would have been given what had just happened,

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Speaker 2: but I suppose that maybe given also that he's come

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Speaker 2: out swinging so hard, it was very important that he

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Speaker 2: was there.

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Speaker 1: There's a world in which the publicist for that movie,

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Speaker 1: the poor publicist for that movie, got her wish or

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Speaker 1: his wish, And yeah, jay Z wasn't on that carpet,

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Speaker 1: but it was a very again a rich text. It

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Speaker 1: was giving everybody a very big message that beyonces behind him,

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Speaker 1: Blue Ivy is behind him. They have nothing to hide,

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Speaker 1: they have nothing to be ashamed of.

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Speaker 3: And that that and this is what his statement was about,

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Speaker 3: that his family the victims here, that he has had

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Speaker 3: to sit down with his children, as he said.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he mentioned Blue Ivy not by name, but one

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Speaker 1: of my daughters is old enough that was clearly Blue Ivy.

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Speaker 1: I mean he put her in there. Yeah, So it

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Speaker 1: was again plausible if you've been accused of something that

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Speaker 1: you didn't do. But it is also an example of

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Speaker 1: Davo h when the real victim here is Blue Ivy

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Speaker 1: who's going to have her premiere ruined, and my family

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Speaker 1: and me, and then Tina Noles was also on the

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Speaker 1: red carpet, like you could, honestly, they could write dissertations

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Speaker 1: about this red carpet.

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Speaker 2: And the real victim, obviously is the alleged victim.

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Speaker 3: And the optics of jay Z there to support his

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Speaker 3: twelve year old daughter in this role when the alleged

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Speaker 3: victim in this case was thirteen like a child, I

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Speaker 3: think is startling.

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Speaker 2: There's something I can't stop thinking about. Right, There's a

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Speaker 2: song by jay Z called four forty four, which my

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Speaker 2: daughter plays in the car all the time because my

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Speaker 2: daughter's really interrupt music. I don't know why she just is.

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Speaker 2: And I obsess over this song because it's all about

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Speaker 2: what a shit he's been, and it's an open letter

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Speaker 2: to Beyonce this song, right. It was released in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: after Lemonade, After Lemonade, after she released her album about

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Speaker 2: what a shit husband he was, he then released his

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Speaker 2: own but in it some of the lyrics are.

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Speaker 3: And if my children known, I don't even know what

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Speaker 3: I would do a thing look at me to.

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Speaker 2: Say, I will probably die with all the Shane. My

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Speaker 2: heart breaks for the day I have explained my mistakes

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Speaker 2: and the mask goes away.

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Speaker 1: With Becky with the good hair.

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Speaker 3: I't think so, do you know what about something else?

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Speaker 3: Because people might remember as well. We did an episode

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Speaker 3: of Canceled recently on Beyonce. It was tongue in cheek

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Speaker 3: and about a lot of the conspiracy theories, but of

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Speaker 3: course the lift incident with Solange. So they were in

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Speaker 3: an elevator leaving the met Gala, leaving the met Gala,

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Speaker 3: and I think he spoke to someone at the met

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Speaker 3: Galla and they think that something went off. Bet Solange

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Speaker 3: physically attacked him in an elevator. And what was most

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Speaker 3: interesting to a lot of people was that Beyonce was

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Speaker 3: in the elevator in the corner and didn't interrupt.

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Speaker 1: Didn't she just stood there and he also took it.

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Speaker 1: What I didn't realize also reading about this, is that

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Speaker 1: he's a fair amount older than her. There's photos going

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Speaker 1: around of him when he was twenty eight with a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of other dudes that were at a Destiny's

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Speaker 1: Child concert and she was sixteen. The story that they

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Speaker 1: tell is that they met when she was eighteen, and

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Speaker 1: they were just friends for a year and a half,

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Speaker 1: and they only started dating when she was nineteen. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how many thirty year olds want to be

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Speaker 1: friends with eighteen year old hot young women. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that she had been with him since

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Speaker 1: she was nineteen. She have her entire adult life, She's

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Speaker 1: never really had any other boyfriends.

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Speaker 2: And that's what that song is about. And he talks

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Speaker 2: in it about mena jatoires and all the things that, like,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of shit has gone on in that

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Speaker 2: life and that.

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Speaker 3: Relationship in a moment, Can you copyright a vibe? One

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Speaker 3: influencer seems to think so, and to tell you all

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Speaker 3: about it after the break? Can you copyright a vibe?

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Speaker 3: Sandra E Garcia wrote a very thought provoking piece in

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Speaker 3: The New York Times this week all about a lifestyle

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Speaker 3: influencer named Sidney Gifford. Gifford lives in Minnesota, and she

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Speaker 3: posts about her home and fashion. And if you scroll

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Speaker 3: through her Instagram account, which has more than three hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand followers, you'll find reels of white and beige. Home

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Speaker 3: wears white and beige clothes, white and beige shoes. I'm

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Speaker 3: not being snarky. That is literally her aesthetics.

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Speaker 2: Talk on Monday, didn't we about how color has disappeared,

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Speaker 2: particularly from homes? And that sounds that's her.

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Speaker 1: You know you call it a neutral palette.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she is all neutral palette. Every now and then

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Speaker 3: she does a jewelry flat lay. But she has a

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Speaker 3: very clear and intentional look. But then something strange happened

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Speaker 3: to Gifford. So a photo popped up and it was

434
00:22:06,327 --> 00:22:11,367
Speaker 3: published by another influencer named Alyssa. Sheel Strangely, she actually

435
00:22:11,407 --> 00:22:14,007
Speaker 3: knew Alyssa. They had met up, I think a year

436
00:22:14,127 --> 00:22:16,807
Speaker 3: or two before to do you know how influences sometimes

437
00:22:16,807 --> 00:22:19,087
Speaker 3: get together and gone make content. Anyway, they'd gone and

438
00:22:19,127 --> 00:22:20,647
Speaker 3: done that. Apparently it was a bit awkward. It was

439
00:22:20,647 --> 00:22:23,727
Speaker 3: a bit weird, and Alyssa had blocked her and gone

440
00:22:23,847 --> 00:22:26,687
Speaker 3: their separate ways. But a friend then sends her Alyssa's

441
00:22:26,687 --> 00:22:29,767
Speaker 3: content and says, this is identical to yours. And she

442
00:22:30,247 --> 00:22:35,407
Speaker 3: is struck by a post by Shiel where there's an

443
00:22:35,447 --> 00:22:39,487
Speaker 3: oversized beige cable nit sweater. She has her hair parted

444
00:22:39,607 --> 00:22:42,527
Speaker 3: in exactly the same way in the center her pose

445
00:22:42,607 --> 00:22:46,127
Speaker 3: is identical, and Gifford is like foot forward, Yes, a

446
00:22:46,447 --> 00:22:50,647
Speaker 3: jutted out hip. And she she's saying, this is identical

447
00:22:50,687 --> 00:22:53,767
Speaker 3: to something I posted a few days ago. She claims

448
00:22:53,807 --> 00:22:57,527
Speaker 3: that Shiel had been mimicking her online persona and appropriating

449
00:22:57,687 --> 00:23:01,207
Speaker 3: her look, her natural beige cream aesthetic. She was using

450
00:23:01,207 --> 00:23:04,087
Speaker 3: the same fonts, she was using the same camera angles,

451
00:23:04,127 --> 00:23:07,047
Speaker 3: and she even replicated her haircut and apartment. And this

452
00:23:07,127 --> 00:23:09,687
Speaker 3: one did get me. She got the same tattoo on

453
00:23:09,727 --> 00:23:11,887
Speaker 3: the same spot on her byfap.

454
00:23:12,487 --> 00:23:13,327
Speaker 2: Taking the piss.

455
00:23:13,647 --> 00:23:15,527
Speaker 1: It was on her side until just now.

456
00:23:15,567 --> 00:23:17,847
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a flower tattoo and like she died

457
00:23:17,847 --> 00:23:18,407
Speaker 3: her hair and stuff.

458
00:23:18,407 --> 00:23:21,047
Speaker 2: Anyway, she says, single white female. Yeah.

459
00:23:21,207 --> 00:23:24,407
Speaker 3: She says that the imitation is costing her money. And

460
00:23:24,407 --> 00:23:26,967
Speaker 3: this is interesting because she spends a lot of time

461
00:23:27,047 --> 00:23:32,087
Speaker 3: curating her Amazon storefront. So basically she buys a lot

462
00:23:32,127 --> 00:23:35,647
Speaker 3: of homewares, say, and then she markets those products to

463
00:23:36,167 --> 00:23:39,527
Speaker 3: her audience. So it's an affiliate link. Yeah, it's an

464
00:23:39,527 --> 00:23:41,647
Speaker 3: affiliate link, so people might not understand what that means.

465
00:23:41,647 --> 00:23:43,647
Speaker 1: So if you like my shorts, click on this link

466
00:23:43,647 --> 00:23:45,807
Speaker 1: to buy them, and then she gets a little percentage

467
00:23:45,847 --> 00:23:48,527
Speaker 1: of the cost of the shorts if you do buy them.

468
00:23:48,727 --> 00:23:51,647
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what giff That is doing is seeking up

469
00:23:51,647 --> 00:23:54,207
Speaker 3: to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in damages for

470
00:23:54,367 --> 00:23:58,687
Speaker 3: lost income and mental anguish. Why I'm finding this case

471
00:23:58,727 --> 00:24:01,487
Speaker 3: interesting is because, as The New York Times puts it,

472
00:24:01,487 --> 00:24:06,287
Speaker 3: it gets to the heart of social media influence. Garcia writes,

473
00:24:06,527 --> 00:24:09,927
Speaker 3: the very nature of successful trendsetting requires there's some degree

474
00:24:09,927 --> 00:24:12,767
Speaker 3: of replication, and depending on what comes of the lawsuit,

475
00:24:13,127 --> 00:24:16,287
Speaker 3: it could set an important precedent for influencers and how

476
00:24:16,327 --> 00:24:21,447
Speaker 3: they present themselves online. Maya, can you copyright a vibe?

477
00:24:21,807 --> 00:24:24,927
Speaker 3: Or is social media just constant replication? Isn't that what

478
00:24:24,967 --> 00:24:26,567
Speaker 3: social media is copying each other?

479
00:24:26,927 --> 00:24:30,687
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what trends are. That's how algorithms work. That's

480
00:24:30,807 --> 00:24:34,127
Speaker 1: how you get fed more and more of what you like.

481
00:24:34,687 --> 00:24:37,767
Speaker 1: And I don't know. Some people have a really strong

482
00:24:37,807 --> 00:24:41,767
Speaker 1: sense of their own style. I'm very porous when it

483
00:24:41,807 --> 00:24:44,847
Speaker 1: comes to my style. Whoever I'm sort of looking at,

484
00:24:45,047 --> 00:24:46,927
Speaker 1: I will start to emulate them. You know how some

485
00:24:46,967 --> 00:24:50,087
Speaker 1: people will talk in accents when they're in other countries,

486
00:24:50,767 --> 00:24:53,607
Speaker 1: and some people say that's really affected, But I do

487
00:24:53,687 --> 00:24:57,647
Speaker 1: it subconsciously. I've said before when I was hanging around Asher,

488
00:24:57,687 --> 00:25:01,327
Speaker 1: and on the set of Strife, I started dressing like

489
00:25:01,407 --> 00:25:04,447
Speaker 1: Asher and Ash's character Evelyn in Strife, which was like

490
00:25:04,527 --> 00:25:09,007
Speaker 1: suits and sneakers, and that was a particular aesthetic I suppose,

491
00:25:09,487 --> 00:25:11,607
Speaker 1: like with Trinny, I was wearing I love always won

492
00:25:11,647 --> 00:25:14,567
Speaker 1: a lot of sequence. But I'm very influenced now. Addressed

493
00:25:14,607 --> 00:25:17,207
Speaker 1: like a kind of an eccentric grandpa is my vibe.

494
00:25:17,247 --> 00:25:20,607
Speaker 1: It's sort of a Copenhagen style. Why hagen Hagen, I

495
00:25:20,607 --> 00:25:21,487
Speaker 1: don't know how you say it.

496
00:25:21,487 --> 00:25:25,927
Speaker 3: Am in Gifford's defense though, right the Amazon storefront thing

497
00:25:26,647 --> 00:25:31,007
Speaker 3: is a limited market. If you both share a picture

498
00:25:31,047 --> 00:25:33,207
Speaker 3: of the same white T shirt and I'm going to

499
00:25:33,247 --> 00:25:36,887
Speaker 3: affiliate link by one of them, then there is only

500
00:25:36,967 --> 00:25:38,807
Speaker 3: room for so many of you. So if I buy

501
00:25:38,847 --> 00:25:42,047
Speaker 3: Hollies and not yours, then I've cost you money.

502
00:25:42,087 --> 00:25:44,527
Speaker 1: But it's like a hall of mirrors because if the

503
00:25:44,567 --> 00:25:49,087
Speaker 1: point of influence is to monetize that influence by people

504
00:25:49,167 --> 00:25:53,007
Speaker 1: copying whatever it is that you are wearing, what you've bought,

505
00:25:53,087 --> 00:25:57,087
Speaker 1: what you're doing, then of course you're going to have

506
00:25:57,127 --> 00:26:00,167
Speaker 1: lots of little clones out there who are then going

507
00:26:00,247 --> 00:26:02,327
Speaker 1: to market to their It's like kind of like a

508
00:26:02,327 --> 00:26:04,967
Speaker 1: pyramid scheme. I guess in a way, that's what influencing

509
00:26:05,167 --> 00:26:06,167
Speaker 1: is one hundred percent.

510
00:26:06,207 --> 00:26:07,687
Speaker 2: I was going to say, isn't that the whole point

511
00:26:07,767 --> 00:26:10,567
Speaker 2: of influencer is that you're like, you see somebody's lovely

512
00:26:10,607 --> 00:26:12,647
Speaker 2: beije home and you go, well, I'm about to decorate.

513
00:26:12,687 --> 00:26:14,447
Speaker 2: I think I'll decorate like that. I mean, that's the

514
00:26:14,647 --> 00:26:15,567
Speaker 2: point of it.

515
00:26:16,047 --> 00:26:19,287
Speaker 3: I think too that Amazon. I read this article. It

516
00:26:19,367 --> 00:26:21,847
Speaker 3: was in The Verge by Mia Sato, and it went

517
00:26:21,927 --> 00:26:25,207
Speaker 3: into how a lot of these Amazon storefront things work,

518
00:26:25,727 --> 00:26:29,807
Speaker 3: and Amazon actually tells influencers what they want you to promote.

519
00:26:29,967 --> 00:26:33,047
Speaker 3: So the fact that every influencer you follow is telling

520
00:26:33,047 --> 00:26:38,447
Speaker 3: you to buy the same Bucle armchair is not a coincidence.

521
00:26:38,567 --> 00:26:41,327
Speaker 3: It's because Amazon is saying, let's put this in front

522
00:26:41,327 --> 00:26:43,007
Speaker 3: of you, so it's less.

523
00:26:43,007 --> 00:26:45,687
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of bucle armchairs to clear. I've

524
00:26:45,727 --> 00:26:48,847
Speaker 1: set up a storefront because people were like, where can

525
00:26:48,887 --> 00:26:50,407
Speaker 1: I get this? Where can I get that? Except I

526
00:26:50,407 --> 00:26:51,967
Speaker 1: don't know how to I have worked out how to

527
00:26:52,047 --> 00:26:52,367
Speaker 1: use it.

528
00:26:52,447 --> 00:26:55,367
Speaker 2: You need to trademark. I fell into a dressing up box,

529
00:26:55,407 --> 00:26:57,807
Speaker 2: had three martinis and all that. Because that's kind of

530
00:26:57,807 --> 00:27:00,447
Speaker 2: your vibe. I'd like if I wonder if you could

531
00:27:00,487 --> 00:27:00,767
Speaker 2: do that.

532
00:27:00,887 --> 00:27:03,127
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm also.

533
00:27:02,887 --> 00:27:05,127
Speaker 1: Curious, Like I've got these yellow shoes that you guys

534
00:27:05,167 --> 00:27:07,447
Speaker 1: just absolutely hate. Now I kind of use my social

535
00:27:07,487 --> 00:27:10,367
Speaker 1: media to trol my audience, which is like I know

536
00:27:10,447 --> 00:27:12,527
Speaker 1: that people are just going to hate these, and I'm

537
00:27:12,567 --> 00:27:15,167
Speaker 1: interested to see if anyone would buy them. You know,

538
00:27:15,247 --> 00:27:19,687
Speaker 1: this is how people are making income by doing these

539
00:27:19,727 --> 00:27:22,087
Speaker 1: affiliate marketing. Like you've seen all these gift guides that

540
00:27:22,127 --> 00:27:25,607
Speaker 1: we've just been inundated with every single person who's doing

541
00:27:25,607 --> 00:27:26,087
Speaker 1: a gift gide.

542
00:27:26,127 --> 00:27:29,567
Speaker 2: I did one last week. That's all getting any affiliate.

543
00:27:29,247 --> 00:27:33,007
Speaker 1: Well, they're you stupid. So for most people that's affiliate marketing,

544
00:27:33,047 --> 00:27:35,087
Speaker 1: and maybe you can get some And why not, Like

545
00:27:35,087 --> 00:27:37,527
Speaker 1: if you're telling people to go and buy this sofa

546
00:27:37,767 --> 00:27:40,687
Speaker 1: and someone does, and you're sending people that way, why

547
00:27:40,687 --> 00:27:42,607
Speaker 1: shouldn't you get a little bit of it? Okay, but

548
00:27:42,927 --> 00:27:45,727
Speaker 1: to neutrals and how you trademark them and one foot

549
00:27:45,727 --> 00:27:47,687
Speaker 1: in front of the other. Yes, I mean I don't

550
00:27:47,727 --> 00:27:50,087
Speaker 1: know what's influence and what single white female. So back

551
00:27:50,087 --> 00:27:52,967
Speaker 1: to the vibe, right, It's like, so if you do

552
00:27:53,207 --> 00:27:56,007
Speaker 1: genuinely believe you were one of the early adopters of

553
00:27:56,647 --> 00:27:59,567
Speaker 1: a look or a style of writing, or a style

554
00:27:59,647 --> 00:28:01,687
Speaker 1: of you know, I mean, I remember that in the

555
00:28:01,767 --> 00:28:03,447
Speaker 1: early days of Mom and mea there was a very

556
00:28:03,447 --> 00:28:07,487
Speaker 1: distinctive Internet voice that then everybody started writing in and

557
00:28:07,607 --> 00:28:09,887
Speaker 1: you know that happens all the time, and there are

558
00:28:10,407 --> 00:28:13,207
Speaker 1: there's a language of the Internet. There's a language of TikTok,

559
00:28:13,247 --> 00:28:16,367
Speaker 1: there's a language of that. Everybody then picks up and

560
00:28:16,407 --> 00:28:19,047
Speaker 1: goes with the very first person who ever said it.

561
00:28:19,527 --> 00:28:22,127
Speaker 1: I mean, that's very hard to pick, right. So the

562
00:28:22,127 --> 00:28:25,767
Speaker 1: idea of a vibe is interesting because she's right, like

563
00:28:25,807 --> 00:28:28,167
Speaker 1: if that was very much her distinctive thing, and she's

564
00:28:28,247 --> 00:28:32,407
Speaker 1: like neutral cell, groundbreaking. I I the first person who ever.

565
00:28:32,247 --> 00:28:34,887
Speaker 2: Put a beige couch on a grage run. They're like,

566
00:28:35,447 --> 00:28:39,207
Speaker 2: that is hard to gatekeep. But there's something we're going

567
00:28:39,247 --> 00:28:41,047
Speaker 2: on with the tattoo, That's all I've got to say.

568
00:28:41,207 --> 00:28:44,327
Speaker 3: Yeah, And this journalist who went and visited them both

569
00:28:44,447 --> 00:28:46,927
Speaker 3: said it was like walking into the same home. She

570
00:28:47,007 --> 00:28:49,487
Speaker 3: walked into the same home, but then she said, I

571
00:28:49,527 --> 00:28:51,767
Speaker 3: think we're all living in the same home. Yeah, Which

572
00:28:51,807 --> 00:28:55,647
Speaker 3: is your point, Holly from Monday, which is that algorithms

573
00:28:55,647 --> 00:28:59,127
Speaker 3: have flattened our culture so much that we all just

574
00:28:59,167 --> 00:29:04,687
Speaker 3: are kind of constantly replicating each other because it's being projected, and.

575
00:29:04,647 --> 00:29:06,847
Speaker 1: You often don't even realize why you do. It's like,

576
00:29:06,847 --> 00:29:08,567
Speaker 1: there's a reason why the first time you see baro

577
00:29:08,687 --> 00:29:10,927
Speaker 1: jeans you go uh yuck, the second time you go

578
00:29:11,047 --> 00:29:14,487
Speaker 1: uh yuck, the hundredth time you go oh, and then

579
00:29:14,567 --> 00:29:17,087
Speaker 1: the one hundred and fiftieth time you're like, I need some

580
00:29:17,127 --> 00:29:19,127
Speaker 1: barrel leg jeans. Like that's how trends work.

581
00:29:19,247 --> 00:29:22,207
Speaker 3: Yes, but I suppose I'm thinking about the art of

582
00:29:22,247 --> 00:29:26,527
Speaker 3: it all right. Like copyright when it comes to writers

583
00:29:26,567 --> 00:29:31,127
Speaker 3: and artists and fashion designers is massive, and it's something

584
00:29:31,167 --> 00:29:34,687
Speaker 3: that is really complicated because it's you don't really trademark

585
00:29:35,287 --> 00:29:39,207
Speaker 3: an idea. What you can trademark is very specific.

586
00:29:39,487 --> 00:29:42,167
Speaker 1: West always saying magazines, you can't copyright an idea because

587
00:29:42,607 --> 00:29:46,327
Speaker 1: women's magazines essentially would recycle the same stories among each

588
00:29:46,327 --> 00:29:50,047
Speaker 1: other and among themselves again and again and again. It's like, Oh,

589
00:29:50,087 --> 00:29:51,807
Speaker 1: it's September, it's the hair book.

590
00:29:51,767 --> 00:29:55,767
Speaker 3: And you're constantly influenced by lots of things. Oh, this

591
00:29:55,807 --> 00:29:57,647
Speaker 3: is going well on this website, and this idea is

592
00:29:57,687 --> 00:29:59,767
Speaker 3: going well, and we'll grab that, and every news site

593
00:29:59,807 --> 00:30:04,327
Speaker 3: is writing around a TikTok, and in academia, your footnote,

594
00:30:04,367 --> 00:30:06,647
Speaker 3: you're constantly referencing where something has come from.

595
00:30:06,687 --> 00:30:08,807
Speaker 1: So on Internet culture, I once did a thing where

596
00:30:08,887 --> 00:30:12,327
Speaker 1: I incidentally I didn't realize obviously it had gone into

597
00:30:12,327 --> 00:30:16,567
Speaker 1: my subconscious I did a thing of like a Celeste Barber,

598
00:30:16,567 --> 00:30:18,167
Speaker 1: you know how she has a celebrity photo and then

599
00:30:18,207 --> 00:30:20,127
Speaker 1: she does her version of it, and I thought, oh,

600
00:30:20,167 --> 00:30:21,607
Speaker 1: there was this photo of Jal and I thought I

601
00:30:21,647 --> 00:30:23,687
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be funny if I did my version of it?

602
00:30:24,167 --> 00:30:26,247
Speaker 1: And then a lot of people in the comments were

603
00:30:26,327 --> 00:30:28,607
Speaker 1: like tagged celest barbera and I was like, oh shit.

604
00:30:28,647 --> 00:30:29,967
Speaker 1: And what you've got to do is you've got to

605
00:30:29,967 --> 00:30:33,087
Speaker 1: say ht, which is hat tip yes at Celest Barber.

606
00:30:33,247 --> 00:30:35,327
Speaker 1: So that's the Internet equivalent of footnotes.

607
00:30:35,487 --> 00:30:39,207
Speaker 3: Yes, but broadly that has been entirely lost. I always

608
00:30:39,247 --> 00:30:42,047
Speaker 3: see and I think that TikTok has a lot to

609
00:30:42,087 --> 00:30:45,447
Speaker 3: answer for in this is that replication, trend setting, even

610
00:30:45,487 --> 00:30:47,047
Speaker 3: templates is the aim of the game.

611
00:30:47,127 --> 00:30:48,527
Speaker 1: It's not a floor, it's a feature.

612
00:30:48,607 --> 00:30:51,567
Speaker 3: It's a feature. And I think there's something really depressing

613
00:30:51,567 --> 00:30:53,527
Speaker 3: about that that I see a comedy video. I saw

614
00:30:53,527 --> 00:30:55,007
Speaker 3: a comedy video the other day and I went, oh,

615
00:30:55,087 --> 00:30:57,807
Speaker 3: that's funny, and then I realized that that was an

616
00:30:57,847 --> 00:30:59,967
Speaker 3: exact replica of the comedy video that was made two

617
00:31:00,007 --> 00:31:02,527
Speaker 3: weeks ago by this creator who probably got half as

618
00:31:02,567 --> 00:31:05,727
Speaker 3: many views. But the irony of all of this, the

619
00:31:05,767 --> 00:31:08,767
Speaker 3: irony of the influencer coming out and saying, you copied

620
00:31:08,807 --> 00:31:12,207
Speaker 3: me replica, blah blah blah, is that you know that

621
00:31:12,607 --> 00:31:16,687
Speaker 3: buckle armchair that you are saying, I am the custodian

622
00:31:16,727 --> 00:31:19,807
Speaker 3: of Do you realize that that is a replica of

623
00:31:19,887 --> 00:31:23,607
Speaker 3: a much more expensive design, like everything on a lot

624
00:31:23,647 --> 00:31:26,687
Speaker 3: of these websites is. And this is the problem with

625
00:31:26,767 --> 00:31:30,607
Speaker 3: all design. Any designer will say this that someone put

626
00:31:30,847 --> 00:31:34,567
Speaker 3: all this effort into creating this incredible vision and then

627
00:31:34,607 --> 00:31:39,007
Speaker 3: somewhere really cheap, really unsustainably made that piece of furniture

628
00:31:39,047 --> 00:31:41,487
Speaker 3: so that everyone could buy it. And that's kind of

629
00:31:41,527 --> 00:31:45,327
Speaker 3: where art design creativity. That's why it's dying.

630
00:31:45,727 --> 00:31:48,727
Speaker 2: All roads lead back to Meryl Streep in Devil Wears

631
00:31:48,727 --> 00:31:52,367
Speaker 2: Proda when she says that about that jumper, doesn't.

632
00:31:52,007 --> 00:31:55,007
Speaker 4: She Okay, I see you think this has nothing to

633
00:31:55,047 --> 00:32:00,407
Speaker 4: do with you. You go to your closet and you

634
00:32:00,447 --> 00:32:03,687
Speaker 4: select I don't know that lumpy blue sweater, for instance,

635
00:32:03,767 --> 00:32:06,287
Speaker 4: because you're trying to tell the world that you take

636
00:32:06,327 --> 00:32:08,567
Speaker 4: yourself too seriously to care about what you put on

637
00:32:08,607 --> 00:32:11,647
Speaker 4: your back. What you don't know is that that sweater is.

638
00:32:11,567 --> 00:32:12,607
Speaker 1: Not just blue.

639
00:32:12,727 --> 00:32:16,727
Speaker 4: It's not to her quoise, it's not lapis, it's actually ceruleum.

640
00:32:19,207 --> 00:32:24,727
Speaker 2: W was past. It's the end of an era, but

641
00:32:24,927 --> 00:32:27,727
Speaker 2: the start of an a singing.

642
00:32:28,447 --> 00:32:31,087
Speaker 1: The Eras tour ended on Monday. Guys, did you notice

643
00:32:31,327 --> 00:32:33,967
Speaker 1: no big surprises or announcements in the final show. I

644
00:32:34,087 --> 00:32:37,087
Speaker 1: thought maybe she'd announced that she was pregnant.

645
00:32:37,127 --> 00:32:39,167
Speaker 2: Why would she do that? That is the most untailed

646
00:32:39,207 --> 00:32:40,447
Speaker 2: Swift thing that she could do.

647
00:32:40,567 --> 00:32:41,567
Speaker 1: It was my fan fiction.

648
00:32:41,727 --> 00:32:43,927
Speaker 2: If she's pregnant, I reckon, she'll never tell us. I

649
00:32:44,047 --> 00:32:46,967
Speaker 2: was like, I'm having this baby, Yes I am.

650
00:32:47,527 --> 00:32:50,007
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about, Bessie. Secondly, as

651
00:32:50,007 --> 00:32:53,047
Speaker 3: someone who I really like Taylor Swift, I'm not a Swifty.

652
00:32:53,607 --> 00:32:55,167
Speaker 3: Why is it such a big deal that the Eras

653
00:32:55,207 --> 00:32:55,727
Speaker 3: tour is over?

654
00:32:55,807 --> 00:32:59,407
Speaker 1: Okay, well, it's been going on for almost two years,

655
00:33:00,007 --> 00:33:03,047
Speaker 1: around eighteen months. Actually, she's played one hundred and forty

656
00:33:03,127 --> 00:33:05,847
Speaker 1: nine shows and the tour went to fifty four cities.

657
00:33:05,887 --> 00:33:10,327
Speaker 1: In twenty one countries and five out of the seven constance.

658
00:33:10,407 --> 00:33:15,047
Speaker 3: Content type of a lot of letters.

659
00:33:15,607 --> 00:33:19,447
Speaker 1: Yes, there are a lot of consonants. In her tour,

660
00:33:20,247 --> 00:33:23,447
Speaker 1: she missed no dates except for the three that she

661
00:33:23,527 --> 00:33:26,047
Speaker 1: was forced to cancel in Vienna because of a planned

662
00:33:26,087 --> 00:33:29,807
Speaker 1: terrorist attack. That's pretty extraordinary. She was not sick for

663
00:33:29,887 --> 00:33:31,927
Speaker 1: a single night of those shows. They went for three

664
00:33:31,967 --> 00:33:33,007
Speaker 1: and a half hours each.

665
00:33:33,647 --> 00:33:36,167
Speaker 3: Imagine the smoothie she's having. I would love to like

666
00:33:36,247 --> 00:33:39,047
Speaker 3: she must be. You'd focus so much on your health

667
00:33:39,087 --> 00:33:39,927
Speaker 3: and your energy levels.

668
00:33:40,047 --> 00:33:43,407
Speaker 1: Yes, much. She says. She doesn't drink when she's performing,

669
00:33:43,407 --> 00:33:46,127
Speaker 1: and she's when she's not singing because she has like

670
00:33:46,167 --> 00:33:49,247
Speaker 1: a few days break between each sort of batch of shows.

671
00:33:49,407 --> 00:33:52,727
Speaker 1: She's on complete vocal rest because imagine she sings full

672
00:33:52,767 --> 00:33:55,287
Speaker 1: out for three and a half hours often like three

673
00:33:55,407 --> 00:33:56,647
Speaker 1: or four nights in a row, and then she'll have

674
00:33:56,727 --> 00:33:59,367
Speaker 1: few days off. Anyway, listen to this. Her biggest show

675
00:33:59,367 --> 00:34:01,647
Speaker 1: to date was at Melbourne Cricket Ground in Australia, where

676
00:34:01,687 --> 00:34:05,207
Speaker 1: she performed for ninety six thousand people, of which I

677
00:34:05,367 --> 00:34:08,047
Speaker 1: was one. That's the one Coco and I were at

678
00:34:08,087 --> 00:34:11,287
Speaker 1: and it is the best. It was incredible. That was

679
00:34:11,327 --> 00:34:13,967
Speaker 1: the most people she ever played for I did. You're

680
00:34:13,967 --> 00:34:17,087
Speaker 1: not meant to say that because I'll get you sorry.

681
00:34:17,287 --> 00:34:18,087
Speaker 3: I think people are right.

682
00:34:18,167 --> 00:34:20,047
Speaker 1: Yes, I did go twice. I also went in Sydney,

683
00:34:20,087 --> 00:34:22,647
Speaker 1: but the Melbourne one was my favorite. Around ten million

684
00:34:22,687 --> 00:34:26,207
Speaker 1: people have attended the Eras tour and she sang all

685
00:34:26,207 --> 00:34:29,407
Speaker 1: too well. You know the song about Jake Jillian, that

686
00:34:29,447 --> 00:34:31,767
Speaker 1: song she sang a ten minute version of that on

687
00:34:31,847 --> 00:34:35,567
Speaker 1: stage acoustically. She plays it in every show, which means

688
00:34:35,567 --> 00:34:38,247
Speaker 1: that she has played it for twenty five hours and

689
00:34:38,287 --> 00:34:40,047
Speaker 1: eighteen minutes over one full day.

690
00:34:40,567 --> 00:34:43,007
Speaker 3: Imagine how sick she would bear of that song.

691
00:34:43,087 --> 00:34:45,127
Speaker 2: You know what I keep thinking about me, I've got

692
00:34:45,127 --> 00:34:45,607
Speaker 2: more facts.

693
00:34:46,567 --> 00:34:50,967
Speaker 1: Just sush because it's important. The global economic impact from

694
00:34:51,007 --> 00:34:53,447
Speaker 1: the Ears to her alone is thirteen to twenty eight

695
00:34:53,527 --> 00:34:57,887
Speaker 1: billion dollars, which roughly translates to the GDP of a

696
00:34:57,927 --> 00:35:00,887
Speaker 1: small country. And according to Forbes, she makes between ten

697
00:35:01,047 --> 00:35:04,407
Speaker 1: and thirteen million dollars per show. She just paid out

698
00:35:04,447 --> 00:35:07,927
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety seven million dollars in tips to

699
00:35:08,047 --> 00:35:08,807
Speaker 1: her crew.

700
00:35:09,647 --> 00:35:11,127
Speaker 2: She treats her crew well, she pays more.

701
00:35:11,167 --> 00:35:14,167
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, there's other facts, but here's what I.

702
00:35:14,127 --> 00:35:16,527
Speaker 2: Want to know. Well, what I keep thinking about rather

703
00:35:16,887 --> 00:35:20,607
Speaker 2: is the relationship timeline because if on this December the eleventh,

704
00:35:20,607 --> 00:35:22,207
Speaker 2: you did get dumped, I want you to think about

705
00:35:22,207 --> 00:35:24,567
Speaker 2: how different your life could be at eighteen months. Because

706
00:35:25,567 --> 00:35:28,767
Speaker 2: when Taylor Swift started that tour, she was allegedly still

707
00:35:28,807 --> 00:35:31,887
Speaker 2: going out with Joe Olwen right, well we all thought so, yeah,

708
00:35:32,007 --> 00:35:33,967
Speaker 2: she broke up with him. She had an affair with

709
00:35:34,007 --> 00:35:37,447
Speaker 2: somebody else, a flat Laddie Healy. I only just saw

710
00:35:37,687 --> 00:35:40,527
Speaker 2: the video of the podcast where Travis Kelcey, so the

711
00:35:40,567 --> 00:35:43,567
Speaker 2: tour had already started. Travis Kelcey talks to his brother

712
00:35:43,607 --> 00:35:45,567
Speaker 2: about how he tried to go and give Taylor a

713
00:35:45,607 --> 00:35:47,447
Speaker 2: bracelet with her number on it, and she wouldn't see

714
00:35:47,527 --> 00:35:50,927
Speaker 2: him because she doesn't talk since that. Fast forward to

715
00:35:50,967 --> 00:35:52,887
Speaker 2: the end of the tour. He's dancing on a freaking

716
00:35:52,967 --> 00:35:56,247
Speaker 2: stage in a top hat. They're the most iconic couple

717
00:35:56,287 --> 00:35:58,887
Speaker 2: in the world. And now Mia thinks that she's having

718
00:35:58,887 --> 00:36:00,887
Speaker 2: his baby. Yes she is. So I just want to

719
00:36:00,927 --> 00:36:03,407
Speaker 2: tell everybody a lot can change in eighteen months. Look

720
00:36:03,407 --> 00:36:05,567
Speaker 2: at what's happened to Travis Kelsey in eighteen months. A

721
00:36:05,687 --> 00:36:09,567
Speaker 2: rainbow has been shot up that man's art. Eighteen months birth.

722
00:36:09,407 --> 00:36:12,047
Speaker 1: Stay to Taylor for two days time she turns thirty

723
00:36:12,047 --> 00:36:13,607
Speaker 1: five on the thirteenth of December.

724
00:36:13,647 --> 00:36:14,687
Speaker 2: Holder sad Geez.

725
00:36:15,167 --> 00:36:18,727
Speaker 3: Speaking of tours out Louders, this is your reminder to

726
00:36:18,847 --> 00:36:21,727
Speaker 3: buy tickets while you still can to our live show.

727
00:36:21,927 --> 00:36:24,887
Speaker 3: Maya update at the top of our lady board.

728
00:36:24,927 --> 00:36:28,687
Speaker 1: On the leaderboard, it's still Perth Perth ninety five percent Perth.

729
00:36:28,727 --> 00:36:29,687
Speaker 1: You nearly sold out.

730
00:36:29,727 --> 00:36:32,047
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I met some last week. You'll hear

731
00:36:32,047 --> 00:36:33,407
Speaker 3: more about this in my best Friends and what some

732
00:36:33,407 --> 00:36:35,807
Speaker 3: Perth out Loud and Perth out Louders and they might

733
00:36:35,887 --> 00:36:38,607
Speaker 3: be the premium out louder there. I said it.

734
00:36:38,687 --> 00:36:40,407
Speaker 1: Every person you met in person they were coming to

735
00:36:40,407 --> 00:36:40,687
Speaker 1: the show.

736
00:36:40,807 --> 00:36:41,127
Speaker 2: They did.

737
00:36:41,167 --> 00:36:43,047
Speaker 3: They all said I'm coming. I'm very very excited.

738
00:36:43,207 --> 00:36:46,247
Speaker 1: Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne are selling very very fast because

739
00:36:46,287 --> 00:36:47,687
Speaker 1: out loud As are egger beavers.

740
00:36:47,807 --> 00:36:50,647
Speaker 2: It's the Mama Mia Out Loud Live twenty twenty five show.

741
00:36:50,687 --> 00:36:54,007
Speaker 2: It's called All or Nothing and it's presented by Nivia Cellular.

742
00:36:54,087 --> 00:36:56,167
Speaker 2: It's an all new show. So if you did come

743
00:36:56,207 --> 00:36:59,047
Speaker 2: and see us in May this year. Not like Taylor

744
00:36:59,087 --> 00:37:03,087
Speaker 2: Swift who's been doing the same show, Lazy Girl, She's

745
00:37:03,167 --> 00:37:06,447
Speaker 2: so lazy that Swifty. We are making a whole new

746
00:37:06,447 --> 00:37:09,247
Speaker 2: show for you, with all new costumes, all new gags,

747
00:37:09,247 --> 00:37:11,367
Speaker 2: all new arguments. You've got to come along. Head to

748
00:37:11,447 --> 00:37:14,247
Speaker 2: outloud live dot com dot au to get your pause

749
00:37:14,247 --> 00:37:16,447
Speaker 2: on some tickets before they sell out, and of course

750
00:37:16,487 --> 00:37:17,887
Speaker 2: that link is in the show notes.

751
00:37:18,367 --> 00:37:21,967
Speaker 1: After the break, the children's book that shaped many childhoods

752
00:37:22,007 --> 00:37:24,607
Speaker 1: is being canceled. Plus we have a couple more to

753
00:37:24,647 --> 00:37:26,647
Speaker 1: add to our burning books list.

754
00:37:26,887 --> 00:37:30,807
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what unlimited out loud access. We drop

755
00:37:30,847 --> 00:37:35,487
Speaker 3: episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Muma Maya subscribers.

756
00:37:35,967 --> 00:37:38,047
Speaker 3: Follow the link in the show notes to get us

757
00:37:38,047 --> 00:37:40,807
Speaker 3: in your ears five days a week, and a huge

758
00:37:40,847 --> 00:37:42,847
Speaker 3: thank you to all our current subscribers.

759
00:37:46,247 --> 00:37:48,407
Speaker 1: If you're wondering why you need therapy, it's time to

760
00:37:48,447 --> 00:37:50,727
Speaker 1: blame the book you read when you were a small child.

761
00:37:51,127 --> 00:37:53,087
Speaker 1: There's an article written for Mamma Mia this week by

762
00:37:53,167 --> 00:37:56,487
Speaker 1: Cassandra Green called did this book shape your childhood? Apparently

763
00:37:56,527 --> 00:37:58,847
Speaker 1: it's why we all need therapy, And the book is

764
00:37:59,327 --> 00:38:00,647
Speaker 1: The Rainbowfish.

765
00:38:00,687 --> 00:38:02,847
Speaker 2: I love The Rainbow Feed by Marcus Fister.

766
00:38:03,727 --> 00:38:07,727
Speaker 1: It was published in nineteen ninety two and when I

767
00:38:07,847 --> 00:38:11,567
Speaker 1: read this, I immediately envisage the book and knew the cover,

768
00:38:11,687 --> 00:38:13,527
Speaker 1: and I did have that book and read it to

769
00:38:13,607 --> 00:38:17,007
Speaker 1: my kids in case you can't remember what it's about,

770
00:38:17,007 --> 00:38:19,767
Speaker 1: because I couldn't. The rainbow Fish follows the story of

771
00:38:19,807 --> 00:38:23,487
Speaker 1: the most beautiful fish in the entire ocean. It is

772
00:38:23,727 --> 00:38:27,127
Speaker 1: a fish that has shimmering, colorful scales. Although admired for

773
00:38:27,167 --> 00:38:30,687
Speaker 1: its beauty, the rainbow fish feels lonely because it refuses

774
00:38:30,727 --> 00:38:33,687
Speaker 1: to share its shiny scales with others. I don't even

775
00:38:33,727 --> 00:38:35,967
Speaker 1: know how that would work. After seeking advice from a

776
00:38:35,967 --> 00:38:39,647
Speaker 1: wise octopus, the rainbow fish decides to share its scales,

777
00:38:39,967 --> 00:38:43,607
Speaker 1: which sounds painful, realizing the joy of generosity and friendship.

778
00:38:43,727 --> 00:38:45,807
Speaker 1: By the end of the story, the rainbow fish is

779
00:38:45,847 --> 00:38:49,847
Speaker 1: surrounded by happy friends, having found true happiness in giving

780
00:38:50,887 --> 00:38:51,247
Speaker 1: your whole?

781
00:38:51,367 --> 00:38:51,887
Speaker 3: Is that correct?

782
00:38:51,927 --> 00:38:54,047
Speaker 1: Because you could remember the rainbowfish?

783
00:38:54,447 --> 00:38:57,567
Speaker 2: And I thought that's lovely, And then I saw some

784
00:38:57,647 --> 00:38:59,247
Speaker 2: of these tiktoks.

785
00:38:58,687 --> 00:39:02,327
Speaker 1: Not lovely because well correct, It seemed to us like

786
00:39:02,407 --> 00:39:05,247
Speaker 1: the story of the rainbow Fish was an allegory for

787
00:39:05,287 --> 00:39:08,527
Speaker 1: banishing ego and considering others before ourselves sharing.

788
00:39:08,567 --> 00:39:09,927
Speaker 3: Everyone needs to learn to share.

789
00:39:10,007 --> 00:39:12,967
Speaker 1: The fish learned to have a giving mindset instead of

790
00:39:12,967 --> 00:39:17,527
Speaker 1: a growth mindset, and to care about those around him. However,

791
00:39:18,207 --> 00:39:22,687
Speaker 1: psychologist Caroline Milsdorf on social media this week critiqued The

792
00:39:22,767 --> 00:39:27,367
Speaker 1: Rainbow Fish, suggesting that it promotes people pleasing over healthy generosity.

793
00:39:27,727 --> 00:39:30,727
Speaker 1: She argues that the story precious children to give up

794
00:39:30,727 --> 00:39:36,567
Speaker 1: their uniqueness and boundaries to gain acceptance from others. So, yes,

795
00:39:36,607 --> 00:39:39,407
Speaker 1: the book sends a problematic message. Children's value is tied

796
00:39:39,447 --> 00:39:40,727
Speaker 1: to how much they do for others.

797
00:39:41,047 --> 00:39:43,487
Speaker 3: The world needs more people pleasing. I think people pleasing

798
00:39:43,567 --> 00:39:47,207
Speaker 3: is a great message. The thing is about hoarding is

799
00:39:47,287 --> 00:39:50,047
Speaker 3: holding your own scales. Now, holding your own scales is

800
00:39:50,047 --> 00:39:53,087
Speaker 3: your instinct as someone with a child at the moment.

801
00:39:53,487 --> 00:39:56,207
Speaker 3: Not sharing is the instinct. Hence why we write books

802
00:39:56,367 --> 00:39:57,527
Speaker 3: about how we must share.

803
00:39:57,567 --> 00:39:59,767
Speaker 1: But Jesse must I share my skin with you? Literally?

804
00:39:59,927 --> 00:40:01,007
Speaker 3: I mean I know you bitches.

805
00:40:01,007 --> 00:40:01,967
Speaker 1: Where my clothes are lost?

806
00:40:02,087 --> 00:40:05,447
Speaker 3: Is at this the whole point that you walk around.

807
00:40:05,527 --> 00:40:07,887
Speaker 3: For example, you want to teach your child how lucky

808
00:40:07,887 --> 00:40:10,247
Speaker 3: they are and how they have things, not because they're

809
00:40:10,287 --> 00:40:14,487
Speaker 3: better than anyone else, not because they earned anything, but

810
00:40:14,607 --> 00:40:17,927
Speaker 3: because they were lucky enough to be born with a

811
00:40:17,967 --> 00:40:21,527
Speaker 3: particular gifts or rainbow fish still check its privilege yes,

812
00:40:21,567 --> 00:40:23,887
Speaker 3: and walk around and go I'm going to give this

813
00:40:23,927 --> 00:40:26,447
Speaker 3: to others because I am part of a community and

814
00:40:26,647 --> 00:40:30,807
Speaker 3: this analysis is some neoliberal bullshit which is all about

815
00:40:31,167 --> 00:40:34,047
Speaker 3: you're an individual and you can't give away your stuff

816
00:40:34,047 --> 00:40:36,807
Speaker 3: and you must just look after yourself, and which is

817
00:40:37,047 --> 00:40:38,007
Speaker 3: very very damaging.

818
00:40:38,207 --> 00:40:41,527
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, And I was like, what are you

819
00:40:41,607 --> 00:40:42,407
Speaker 2: talking about them?

820
00:40:42,487 --> 00:40:42,647
Speaker 3: Then?

821
00:40:42,847 --> 00:40:45,287
Speaker 2: When I listen to what they were saying, these people,

822
00:40:45,327 --> 00:40:47,287
Speaker 2: because she's not the only one, this woman on TikTok,

823
00:40:47,687 --> 00:40:52,367
Speaker 2: they're saying that the other people are bullies, the ones

824
00:40:52,367 --> 00:40:54,047
Speaker 2: who are saying, give me one of your scales, give

825
00:40:54,087 --> 00:40:55,887
Speaker 2: me one of your scales, give me one of your scales.

826
00:40:56,007 --> 00:40:58,767
Speaker 5: You start off here with rainbow fish, just an introduction.

827
00:40:59,207 --> 00:41:00,967
Speaker 5: This is the most beautiful fish in the sea. And

828
00:41:01,007 --> 00:41:04,247
Speaker 5: this little boring ass fish goes, rainbelfish, give me one

829
00:41:04,247 --> 00:41:05,247
Speaker 5: of your shiny scales.

830
00:41:05,407 --> 00:41:06,287
Speaker 1: You have so many.

831
00:41:06,567 --> 00:41:09,767
Speaker 5: Rainbowfish responds rightfully by saying, you want me to give

832
00:41:09,767 --> 00:41:12,007
Speaker 5: you one of my special skills. Who do you think

833
00:41:12,047 --> 00:41:15,887
Speaker 5: you are? Get away from me? This little punk runs away,

834
00:41:15,927 --> 00:41:19,647
Speaker 5: shocked shit talks rainbowfish to his friends, and from then

835
00:41:19,687 --> 00:41:22,247
Speaker 5: on nobody wants anything to do with rainbow fish.

836
00:41:22,527 --> 00:41:24,687
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, they are She's right.

837
00:41:24,807 --> 00:41:26,607
Speaker 3: No life is just people asking you for shit.

838
00:41:26,727 --> 00:41:30,527
Speaker 2: They say that, no, wonder we don't have boundaries, because

839
00:41:30,567 --> 00:41:32,447
Speaker 2: what the fish should have done is said, I'm very

840
00:41:32,487 --> 00:41:34,447
Speaker 2: sorry that you would like to have some shimmery scales

841
00:41:34,447 --> 00:41:36,327
Speaker 2: of your own, but these are my shimmery scales.

842
00:41:36,087 --> 00:41:38,287
Speaker 1: And I'll be trademarking my vibe exactly.

843
00:41:38,887 --> 00:41:41,087
Speaker 2: I'd never thought of it like that. It blew my mind,

844
00:41:41,127 --> 00:41:43,247
Speaker 2: and then I realized, exactly what you've just said is

845
00:41:43,247 --> 00:41:46,327
Speaker 2: that the rainbow fish is like a socialist parable right.

846
00:41:46,407 --> 00:41:50,087
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, we share the riches between everybody, and

847
00:41:50,167 --> 00:41:54,087
Speaker 2: it does not vibe with our individualistic times. But the

848
00:41:54,127 --> 00:41:57,167
Speaker 2: thing is, I genuinely read that book to my kids

849
00:41:57,207 --> 00:41:59,087
Speaker 2: every night, and I never thought of this, and now

850
00:41:59,127 --> 00:42:02,767
Speaker 2: it's all I can see boundaries. The fish needs boundaries.

851
00:42:02,807 --> 00:42:05,007
Speaker 3: I don't think the fish needs boundaries. I think that

852
00:42:05,247 --> 00:42:08,847
Speaker 3: the idea that you are part of a community is

853
00:42:08,847 --> 00:42:11,647
Speaker 3: a very one and I think that we are overthinking it.

854
00:42:11,767 --> 00:42:13,607
Speaker 2: What about the bit where she says this is why

855
00:42:13,607 --> 00:42:18,167
Speaker 2: all millennials people pleasers who suffer from burnout.

856
00:42:18,527 --> 00:42:20,607
Speaker 3: I don't think we are a bunch of people pleases.

857
00:42:20,727 --> 00:42:23,767
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of burnout, it's made me question everything, including

858
00:42:23,807 --> 00:42:26,367
Speaker 1: where is the green sheep by our beloved men fox,

859
00:42:26,407 --> 00:42:31,407
Speaker 1: which what's that Mourner is particularly interested in. Everybody's looking

860
00:42:31,567 --> 00:42:34,487
Speaker 1: for the green sheep, Jesse. And they can find all

861
00:42:34,487 --> 00:42:36,687
Speaker 1: the other sheeps. They can find bath sheep, they can

862
00:42:36,727 --> 00:42:40,167
Speaker 1: find bed sheep, they can find red sheep, they can

863
00:42:40,207 --> 00:42:43,127
Speaker 1: find all the different sheeps, but they can't find the

864
00:42:43,167 --> 00:42:45,687
Speaker 1: green sheep. And do you know why why the green

865
00:42:45,727 --> 00:42:49,727
Speaker 1: sheep is asleep under a bush? And I think that's

866
00:42:49,767 --> 00:42:54,007
Speaker 1: an all agree about burnout, social anxiety and quiet quitting.

867
00:42:55,087 --> 00:42:56,847
Speaker 1: That's so true. I think that the green sheep is

868
00:42:56,927 --> 00:42:58,687
Speaker 1: quite queer. I think it's quite quitting the book.

869
00:42:58,767 --> 00:43:01,007
Speaker 2: I do you think there needs to be people should

870
00:43:01,007 --> 00:43:02,807
Speaker 2: just stop looking for the green sheep because the green

871
00:43:02,847 --> 00:43:04,247
Speaker 2: sheep is worthless lazy.

872
00:43:04,367 --> 00:43:06,887
Speaker 1: Also, the green sheep needs some time to reach out

873
00:43:06,887 --> 00:43:08,967
Speaker 1: to you social batteries, away from all the other bloody

874
00:43:09,007 --> 00:43:11,727
Speaker 1: sheep doing things like going down slides and jumping off

875
00:43:12,087 --> 00:43:15,207
Speaker 1: piers they're so busy, or the others of trains.

876
00:43:15,247 --> 00:43:18,567
Speaker 3: I think you're projecting. I struggle with the very hungry

877
00:43:18,567 --> 00:43:23,527
Speaker 3: caterpillar because I think that it promotes disordered eating because.

878
00:43:23,167 --> 00:43:24,287
Speaker 1: It's it's binging.

879
00:43:24,487 --> 00:43:26,967
Speaker 3: It is binging, and it's a bit shamy.

880
00:43:26,727 --> 00:43:29,927
Speaker 2: But they're very hungry. Caterpillar eats his or hers way

881
00:43:30,087 --> 00:43:31,367
Speaker 2: through lots of healthy food.

882
00:43:31,487 --> 00:43:34,487
Speaker 1: It's fuel to become like you need fuel.

883
00:43:34,727 --> 00:43:37,047
Speaker 3: Yeah, But then it's like, oh, and then the caterpillar

884
00:43:37,087 --> 00:43:39,487
Speaker 3: had a tummy ache, and it's like, oh, you're trying

885
00:43:39,487 --> 00:43:40,927
Speaker 3: and tell my kid not to eat as much as

886
00:43:40,927 --> 00:43:43,287
Speaker 3: they feel like or are you trying to tell my

887
00:43:43,367 --> 00:43:45,207
Speaker 3: kid that they must binge in order to grow.

888
00:43:45,047 --> 00:43:47,607
Speaker 1: It because they need to recognize the signals when they

889
00:43:47,647 --> 00:43:50,887
Speaker 1: are full, and they shouldn't emotionally eat. I also, I

890
00:43:50,927 --> 00:43:53,567
Speaker 1: think the hungry caterpillar is emotionally eating. I think that

891
00:43:53,687 --> 00:43:55,247
Speaker 1: it was too feelings.

892
00:43:55,367 --> 00:43:57,607
Speaker 3: I struggle with you know how you were talking about

893
00:43:57,607 --> 00:44:01,767
Speaker 3: the rainbow fish and how the octopus says something to it.

894
00:44:01,767 --> 00:44:04,567
Speaker 3: It's really hard when a child is trying to understand

895
00:44:04,607 --> 00:44:06,927
Speaker 3: the world around them when every animal in every book

896
00:44:06,967 --> 00:44:10,487
Speaker 3: talks and wears clothes, up your expectation and has a

897
00:44:10,567 --> 00:44:13,047
Speaker 3: half glasses, and you've got to go. You know what.

898
00:44:13,767 --> 00:44:15,127
Speaker 3: Giraffes don't come up.

899
00:44:15,087 --> 00:44:17,687
Speaker 1: Much in puses. You might not ever see.

900
00:44:17,727 --> 00:44:19,727
Speaker 3: You might talk to one in your whole life. You're

901
00:44:19,727 --> 00:44:20,567
Speaker 3: probably not going to talk.

902
00:44:20,447 --> 00:44:22,647
Speaker 1: To them, probably not going to bear a hat. No, exactly.

903
00:44:22,807 --> 00:44:24,887
Speaker 2: But this is why we give all the animals in

904
00:44:24,927 --> 00:44:27,567
Speaker 2: our lives voices. This is why your dog talked like this.

905
00:44:27,807 --> 00:44:30,807
Speaker 1: Yes, I see a lot of sheep at the playground.

906
00:44:30,847 --> 00:44:32,727
Speaker 1: There's not actually a lot of sheep. Where are the sheep?

907
00:44:32,767 --> 00:44:36,887
Speaker 1: Why aren't they going down the slide?

908
00:44:37,247 --> 00:44:37,767
Speaker 2: Dear zoo?

909
00:44:38,207 --> 00:44:39,927
Speaker 3: Because dear Zoo is all about I wrote to the

910
00:44:40,007 --> 00:44:41,767
Speaker 3: zoo to send me a pet. They sent me an

911
00:44:41,767 --> 00:44:45,647
Speaker 3: elephant in a box. I'm like, we're not sending yeah,

912
00:44:46,007 --> 00:44:48,087
Speaker 3: or a snake or a monkey in a box. You know,

913
00:44:49,167 --> 00:44:51,487
Speaker 3: send them back. That's an episode and we know what

914
00:44:51,567 --> 00:44:53,647
Speaker 3: happens when you send them back. They've got a landfill

915
00:44:53,727 --> 00:44:56,647
Speaker 3: border force. What do they called Australian.

916
00:44:57,567 --> 00:44:59,367
Speaker 2: Control the landfill?

917
00:45:00,367 --> 00:45:02,607
Speaker 3: We really this is escalated quickly.

918
00:45:03,367 --> 00:45:05,607
Speaker 2: One of the things about children's books is they've always

919
00:45:05,607 --> 00:45:09,127
Speaker 2: had allegories of messages, right, but not everything in childhood

920
00:45:09,367 --> 00:45:11,367
Speaker 2: to be educational, we just need some books that are

921
00:45:11,407 --> 00:45:11,807
Speaker 2: just fun.

922
00:45:12,767 --> 00:45:14,127
Speaker 1: Foster Blake's book about farts.

923
00:45:14,207 --> 00:45:16,767
Speaker 2: Yes, the reason kids like the rainbow fish actually is

924
00:45:16,887 --> 00:45:20,087
Speaker 2: very superficial. It's because it's sparkly. That's why they like it.

925
00:45:20,407 --> 00:45:23,887
Speaker 2: You get to touch the spark exactly. You get to

926
00:45:23,887 --> 00:45:27,447
Speaker 2: touch the sparkly scales. It's beautifully produced. You can get

927
00:45:27,487 --> 00:45:29,927
Speaker 2: a rainbow fish hanger, you can get a rainbow fish calendar.

928
00:45:29,967 --> 00:45:33,647
Speaker 2: Good Not anymore, you can't because now it's been canceled

929
00:45:33,647 --> 00:45:36,007
Speaker 2: for being the root of all evil. That is all

930
00:45:36,007 --> 00:45:38,407
Speaker 2: we've got time for today, my friends. That is all

931
00:45:38,447 --> 00:45:38,887
Speaker 2: we have time.

932
00:45:38,967 --> 00:45:41,287
Speaker 1: We've run out of time on the internet. There's no

933
00:45:41,367 --> 00:45:42,927
Speaker 1: more space left for our consonants.

934
00:45:44,287 --> 00:45:46,527
Speaker 2: Just th that the Internet is saying enough.

935
00:45:47,807 --> 00:45:49,727
Speaker 1: Enough, because the Internet has boundaries.

936
00:45:50,527 --> 00:45:52,447
Speaker 2: They didn't read that book.

937
00:45:52,567 --> 00:45:57,487
Speaker 3: No one tries to replicate our vibe, because I would

938
00:45:57,527 --> 00:45:59,047
Speaker 3: love someone to try and replicate ours.

939
00:45:59,047 --> 00:46:01,687
Speaker 1: I should say, speaking of our vibe that as we

940
00:46:01,767 --> 00:46:04,807
Speaker 1: are the top of the leaderboard for women's podcasts in Australia,

941
00:46:04,887 --> 00:46:08,807
Speaker 1: and we're number four for all of the podcasts, so

942
00:46:08,927 --> 00:46:11,247
Speaker 1: well done to you for putting us there.

943
00:46:11,287 --> 00:46:15,447
Speaker 2: Really were as leaderboard. Obsession is getting out of control

944
00:46:15,927 --> 00:46:19,727
Speaker 2: before we go. Almost every workplace has an inappropriate man

945
00:46:19,767 --> 00:46:23,127
Speaker 2: in it. Actually not ours, not ours, momma. There are

946
00:46:23,127 --> 00:46:24,647
Speaker 2: a few men here. They're not inappropriate.

947
00:46:24,727 --> 00:46:26,167
Speaker 1: I was going to say, except when my dog was

948
00:46:26,207 --> 00:46:28,127
Speaker 1: biting people, But that wasn't a man, It was actually

949
00:46:28,127 --> 00:46:31,047
Speaker 1: a girl dog. So ignore me and continued even work.

950
00:46:31,127 --> 00:46:34,407
Speaker 2: Then fold up your leaderboards and put him under the tree.

951
00:46:34,527 --> 00:46:36,847
Speaker 2: It's a big We have a massive thank you to

952
00:46:36,927 --> 00:46:40,007
Speaker 2: all of you out louders for listening to today's show

953
00:46:40,167 --> 00:46:42,527
Speaker 2: and to our fabulous team for putting it together.

954
00:46:42,647 --> 00:46:44,007
Speaker 1: We're going to be on the top of the Lead

955
00:46:44,127 --> 00:46:46,567
Speaker 1: Lady leaderboard if there wasn't for our listeners.

956
00:46:46,607 --> 00:46:49,407
Speaker 2: Thank you out Loudness. It's not about me as leaderboard.

957
00:46:49,407 --> 00:46:52,447
Speaker 2: We appreciate you anyway. We need to write a children's

958
00:46:52,447 --> 00:46:55,847
Speaker 2: book about that. We'll be back in your ears tomorrow.

959
00:46:56,407 --> 00:46:59,647
Speaker 2: On our most recent Subs episode, em Vernon and I

960
00:46:59,727 --> 00:47:02,927
Speaker 2: talk about Greg Wallace, who is a very problematic English

961
00:47:02,967 --> 00:47:05,887
Speaker 2: TV presenter who has turned out to be very much

962
00:47:05,927 --> 00:47:08,687
Speaker 2: that inappropriate guy in a workplace, and what the hell

963
00:47:08,727 --> 00:47:11,687
Speaker 2: you do about and why women off a certain age

964
00:47:11,807 --> 00:47:14,567
Speaker 2: in inverted commas may be the ones to call them out.

965
00:47:15,367 --> 00:47:17,727
Speaker 2: Maybe the reason that the women who are complaining about

966
00:47:17,767 --> 00:47:19,727
Speaker 2: this are what we would call middle class and middle

967
00:47:19,767 --> 00:47:22,367
Speaker 2: age because they're the ones who can complain about it.

968
00:47:22,407 --> 00:47:25,927
Speaker 2: Because if you're the junior grip on the show or

969
00:47:25,967 --> 00:47:28,007
Speaker 2: one of the makeup women or whatever, and you're young

970
00:47:28,007 --> 00:47:29,647
Speaker 2: and you're at the beginning of your career. You're not

971
00:47:29,687 --> 00:47:31,887
Speaker 2: going to go straight in with a complaint about the

972
00:47:31,927 --> 00:47:33,847
Speaker 2: guy who's been hosting the show for twenty years. No,

973
00:47:34,047 --> 00:47:36,847
Speaker 2: I don't even know. We're allowed to complain about those things.

974
00:47:36,927 --> 00:47:40,527
Speaker 2: You are absolutely allowed to complain about these things. But,

975
00:47:40,647 --> 00:47:42,847
Speaker 2: as this story suggests, as a link in the show

976
00:47:42,887 --> 00:47:43,287
Speaker 2: notes where you.

977
00:47:43,287 --> 00:47:48,567
Speaker 1: Can listen, Bye shout out to any Muma mia subscribers listening.

978
00:47:48,727 --> 00:47:51,007
Speaker 1: If you love the show and want to support us

979
00:47:51,047 --> 00:47:53,887
Speaker 1: as well, subscribing to MoMA mia is the very best

980
00:47:53,887 --> 00:47:55,687
Speaker 1: way to do so. There is a link in the

981
00:47:55,727 --> 00:47:56,647
Speaker 1: episode description