1 00:00:05,646 --> 00:00:11,446 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mum and Me podcast. Hi, it's 2 00:00:11,526 --> 00:00:14,726 Speaker 1: Cassne Lukige here, host of Diary of a Birth, and 3 00:00:14,806 --> 00:00:18,166 Speaker 1: this summer we've curated your delivery room playlist to bring 4 00:00:18,206 --> 00:00:21,846 Speaker 1: you even more unmissable birth stories. This summer, we're bringing 5 00:00:21,886 --> 00:00:24,726 Speaker 1: you our favorite episodes of Diary of a Birth right 6 00:00:24,806 --> 00:00:28,446 Speaker 1: here in your feet. That's your holiday listening sworded And 7 00:00:28,526 --> 00:00:31,086 Speaker 1: if you're looking for more to listen to, every Muma 8 00:00:31,126 --> 00:00:35,205 Speaker 1: MEA podcast is curating your summer listening right across our network. 9 00:00:35,446 --> 00:00:39,286 Speaker 1: From pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews, there's something 10 00:00:39,326 --> 00:00:46,486 Speaker 1: for everyone. Check out the link in the show notes. Hi, 11 00:00:46,645 --> 00:00:50,245 Speaker 1: I'm Cassennia Lukich and this is Diary of a Birth. 12 00:00:51,126 --> 00:00:54,645 Speaker 1: We've spoken about surrogacy and infertility a few times on 13 00:00:54,686 --> 00:00:59,926 Speaker 1: the pod, but today's story has an added layer. After 14 00:01:00,046 --> 00:01:05,486 Speaker 1: years of trying, twenty three rounds of IVF and constant setback, 15 00:01:06,126 --> 00:01:10,766 Speaker 1: Today's mum turned to her sister, a sister who offered 16 00:01:10,806 --> 00:01:12,006 Speaker 1: to carry her child. 17 00:01:13,006 --> 00:01:16,806 Speaker 2: My sister Sophie offered before we were really ready to 18 00:01:16,846 --> 00:01:19,766 Speaker 2: commit to surrogacy, and we said to her that we 19 00:01:19,806 --> 00:01:21,566 Speaker 2: would wait for our doctor to tell us that it 20 00:01:21,646 --> 00:01:25,606 Speaker 2: was time to consider surrogacy. So when the time came 21 00:01:25,686 --> 00:01:28,806 Speaker 2: after my last failed cycle, he said, it's time to 22 00:01:28,806 --> 00:01:29,886 Speaker 2: speak to Sophie and Sean. 23 00:01:30,806 --> 00:01:33,926 Speaker 1: And despite feeling like her body failed her and the 24 00:01:34,046 --> 00:01:37,086 Speaker 1: complex emotions of seeing her sister carry a child she 25 00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:41,526 Speaker 1: knew was biologically hers, she finally had her much wanted baby. 26 00:01:42,126 --> 00:01:45,526 Speaker 1: But the story doesn't end there. In what can only 27 00:01:45,526 --> 00:01:48,726 Speaker 1: be described as a miracle, today's mum did actually have 28 00:01:48,806 --> 00:01:52,766 Speaker 1: the pregnancy she always wanted. So while today's story is 29 00:01:52,806 --> 00:01:57,446 Speaker 1: about her first baby, Goldie, it's also about her second child, Freddy. 30 00:01:58,046 --> 00:01:59,766 Speaker 1: So let's meet today's mum. 31 00:02:00,726 --> 00:02:03,006 Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Carl. This is the diary of my birth 32 00:02:03,046 --> 00:02:06,086 Speaker 3: with Goldie. 33 00:02:06,686 --> 00:02:11,726 Speaker 1: So Carly, your story is really really interesting. But you've 34 00:02:11,726 --> 00:02:14,006 Speaker 1: got a little three week old crying in the background, 35 00:02:14,085 --> 00:02:16,686 Speaker 1: so if we hear little little cries, that's what that is. 36 00:02:17,286 --> 00:02:20,846 Speaker 1: But can you tell us about your journey to conceiving 37 00:02:21,206 --> 00:02:24,125 Speaker 1: and your journey to actually having Goldie. 38 00:02:24,326 --> 00:02:26,726 Speaker 2: Yeah, so my husband Kurt and I were married in 39 00:02:26,726 --> 00:02:33,085 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen and we felt pregnant quite quickly, and unfortunately 40 00:02:33,125 --> 00:02:38,126 Speaker 2: that resulted in a miscarriage. And yeah, it was a 41 00:02:38,166 --> 00:02:42,445 Speaker 2: blinded over and I had a DNC and then after 42 00:02:42,525 --> 00:02:46,725 Speaker 2: that we unfortunately weren't able to fell pregnant for years, 43 00:02:47,085 --> 00:02:51,606 Speaker 2: and that resulted in quite a lot of IVF and yeah, 44 00:02:51,645 --> 00:02:53,446 Speaker 2: we had unexplained infertility. 45 00:02:53,766 --> 00:02:57,606 Speaker 1: Yeah. How many rounds of IVF did you go through? 46 00:02:57,965 --> 00:03:01,685 Speaker 2: We ended up having approximately twenty five rounds of IVF, 47 00:03:02,166 --> 00:03:09,525 Speaker 2: so that entailed eleven a collection and twenty five embryo transfers, 48 00:03:09,525 --> 00:03:13,846 Speaker 2: which they were top quality embryos that were transferred to me. Yeah, 49 00:03:13,886 --> 00:03:17,006 Speaker 2: we didn't have a chemical and miscarriage nothing. 50 00:03:17,085 --> 00:03:20,886 Speaker 3: It was just every single transfer failed. 51 00:03:21,326 --> 00:03:25,246 Speaker 1: That's so crazy. I mean, I I've had an egg 52 00:03:25,245 --> 00:03:28,206 Speaker 1: collection before, and even doing one of them was hard. 53 00:03:28,405 --> 00:03:31,645 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine going through the hormones and injections 54 00:03:31,685 --> 00:03:35,646 Speaker 1: of eleven. Yeah, that must have been very mentally taxing 55 00:03:35,686 --> 00:03:37,526 Speaker 1: on you and your partner. 56 00:03:38,126 --> 00:03:40,886 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was a really difficult time. 57 00:03:41,206 --> 00:03:41,566 Speaker 2: Yeah. 58 00:03:41,646 --> 00:03:44,126 Speaker 3: I think ultimately it's made us stronger. 59 00:03:44,366 --> 00:03:48,366 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, eventually your doctor sort of suggested that it 60 00:03:48,446 --> 00:03:51,005 Speaker 1: might be time to go down the sarrography route. Yes, 61 00:03:51,246 --> 00:03:56,005 Speaker 1: and your sister actually offered to be your surrogate. 62 00:03:56,406 --> 00:03:57,126 Speaker 3: Yeah. 63 00:03:57,366 --> 00:04:01,165 Speaker 2: My sister Sophie offered before we were really ready to 64 00:04:01,206 --> 00:04:04,126 Speaker 2: commit to surrogacy, and we said to her that we 65 00:04:04,166 --> 00:04:06,086 Speaker 2: would wait for our doctor to tell that it was 66 00:04:06,126 --> 00:04:10,246 Speaker 2: time to consider surrogacy. He knew that Sophie and her 67 00:04:10,286 --> 00:04:13,606 Speaker 2: husband Sean had offered, so when the time came after 68 00:04:13,646 --> 00:04:16,965 Speaker 2: my last failed cycle, he said, it's time to speak 69 00:04:17,006 --> 00:04:17,806 Speaker 2: to Sophie and Sean. 70 00:04:18,166 --> 00:04:22,686 Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously your sister agreed to do this. But was 71 00:04:22,726 --> 00:04:26,686 Speaker 1: that a complex feeling for you? Very because before we 72 00:04:26,806 --> 00:04:30,686 Speaker 1: recorded this interview, we spoke about you got three other siblings. 73 00:04:30,726 --> 00:04:33,246 Speaker 1: You've got two brothers and a sister, Yes, all of 74 00:04:33,246 --> 00:04:36,165 Speaker 1: whom had children whilst you were trying. 75 00:04:36,846 --> 00:04:38,885 Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's four of us. I'm the eldest, and 76 00:04:38,926 --> 00:04:40,686 Speaker 3: I've got two brothers and a sister. Yep. 77 00:04:41,126 --> 00:04:44,686 Speaker 1: How was it for you seeing your siblings grow their 78 00:04:44,726 --> 00:04:47,325 Speaker 1: family when you, guys weren't able to. 79 00:04:48,046 --> 00:04:49,005 Speaker 3: It was really hard. 80 00:04:49,206 --> 00:04:52,645 Speaker 2: While I've always been, you know, such a baby person 81 00:04:52,686 --> 00:04:56,725 Speaker 2: and so maternal and obviously so excited to have babies 82 00:04:56,765 --> 00:05:01,726 Speaker 2: in the family, it was really heartbreaking because I felt 83 00:05:01,726 --> 00:05:02,046 Speaker 2: like with. 84 00:05:02,005 --> 00:05:03,565 Speaker 3: Them, I didn't have a poker face. 85 00:05:03,565 --> 00:05:06,205 Speaker 2: They could see straight through me, and they could see 86 00:05:06,526 --> 00:05:09,525 Speaker 2: how heartbroken Kurt and I were at that time, and 87 00:05:09,565 --> 00:05:11,606 Speaker 2: I just felt like I couldn't share the journey with them. 88 00:05:11,646 --> 00:05:13,885 Speaker 2: It was such an important and special time for them, 89 00:05:14,005 --> 00:05:16,766 Speaker 2: and I had to step away because it was too 90 00:05:16,806 --> 00:05:17,766 Speaker 2: hard for everybody. 91 00:05:18,286 --> 00:05:22,205 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of one of those really challenging feelings 92 00:05:22,206 --> 00:05:27,005 Speaker 1: where you want to be happy for them, but it 93 00:05:27,086 --> 00:05:29,565 Speaker 1: is so hard for you to just pretend like you're 94 00:05:29,606 --> 00:05:30,286 Speaker 1: okay with it. 95 00:05:30,726 --> 00:05:33,086 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they could see, they could see through it. 96 00:05:33,086 --> 00:05:35,205 Speaker 3: They know me so well. Yeah, but it was also 97 00:05:35,286 --> 00:05:36,286 Speaker 3: so difficult for them. 98 00:05:36,606 --> 00:05:41,285 Speaker 2: They felt like they had to cover up such joy 99 00:05:41,286 --> 00:05:44,366 Speaker 2: in their life, and that made me feel so uncomfortable 100 00:05:44,406 --> 00:05:47,325 Speaker 2: because I don't want anyone to have to do that. So, yeah, 101 00:05:47,366 --> 00:05:50,765 Speaker 2: it was really hard, particularly when Sophie was pregnant with 102 00:05:50,765 --> 00:05:51,246 Speaker 2: my niece. 103 00:05:51,885 --> 00:05:56,166 Speaker 1: Yeah, when Sophie agreed to be your surrogate, how long 104 00:05:56,246 --> 00:05:58,486 Speaker 1: did the process take for her to get pregnant. 105 00:05:59,846 --> 00:06:02,126 Speaker 2: It was a little bit longer for us because Sophie 106 00:06:02,126 --> 00:06:06,405 Speaker 2: and Sean wanted a second child, and with regards to 107 00:06:06,445 --> 00:06:09,246 Speaker 2: the risks with surrogacy and the risks that you know 108 00:06:09,325 --> 00:06:12,325 Speaker 2: come with giving birth, it was decided that they would 109 00:06:12,406 --> 00:06:16,286 Speaker 2: have their baby straight away and then we would look 110 00:06:16,606 --> 00:06:20,486 Speaker 2: so whilst Sophie felt pregnant, and while she was pregnant, 111 00:06:20,526 --> 00:06:23,846 Speaker 2: I did to egg collections just to have some embrors 112 00:06:23,926 --> 00:06:26,366 Speaker 2: in the bank for her when she was ready to transfer. 113 00:06:26,606 --> 00:06:30,126 Speaker 1: Okay, so how long after she had your niece was 114 00:06:30,166 --> 00:06:31,565 Speaker 1: she ready to go again? 115 00:06:32,086 --> 00:06:34,686 Speaker 2: She had my nephew, so she had she had a 116 00:06:34,686 --> 00:06:38,046 Speaker 2: little girl, and she had my nephew in the January. 117 00:06:38,726 --> 00:06:41,686 Speaker 2: Six weeks later she got cleared by her Obstecucian and 118 00:06:41,765 --> 00:06:45,405 Speaker 2: it's a really long process of legals and counseling. You 119 00:06:45,526 --> 00:06:48,405 Speaker 2: actually have to be approved through the board at what 120 00:06:48,565 --> 00:06:51,846 Speaker 2: we were at IVF Australia, so it's quite a long process. 121 00:06:51,926 --> 00:06:57,166 Speaker 2: So he was born in the January and we transferred Goldiees. 122 00:06:58,005 --> 00:07:00,765 Speaker 2: I think we were approved in the May and transferred 123 00:07:01,126 --> 00:07:02,606 Speaker 2: in September. 124 00:07:02,486 --> 00:07:04,246 Speaker 1: So it was only sort of nine months after she 125 00:07:04,325 --> 00:07:04,965 Speaker 1: gave birth. 126 00:07:05,206 --> 00:07:07,565 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we pushed forward. 127 00:07:07,366 --> 00:07:10,446 Speaker 2: Because she was ready and she wanted to just not 128 00:07:10,486 --> 00:07:12,606 Speaker 2: get it done, but she it's something that she committed 129 00:07:12,646 --> 00:07:15,526 Speaker 2: to and she was very eager to get started or 130 00:07:15,606 --> 00:07:17,606 Speaker 2: Kurt and I obviously would have given her all the 131 00:07:17,606 --> 00:07:20,246 Speaker 2: time in the world, but yeah, she was really keen 132 00:07:20,286 --> 00:07:20,886 Speaker 2: to get started. 133 00:07:20,886 --> 00:07:22,366 Speaker 3: So that's how it panned out. 134 00:07:22,766 --> 00:07:26,006 Speaker 1: And tell me about finding out that she was pregnant 135 00:07:26,006 --> 00:07:26,686 Speaker 1: with your baby. 136 00:07:27,206 --> 00:07:31,965 Speaker 2: It was so surreal because of our history. There was 137 00:07:32,006 --> 00:07:35,766 Speaker 2: so much of me holding back, not believing that it 138 00:07:35,886 --> 00:07:38,845 Speaker 2: was real. So when we heard her heartbeat, that's a 139 00:07:38,886 --> 00:07:42,486 Speaker 2: point I obviously never got to. So that's when I 140 00:07:42,606 --> 00:07:44,926 Speaker 2: really started to believe that it was going to happen. 141 00:07:45,326 --> 00:07:49,206 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I imagine that everybody in your family would 142 00:07:49,246 --> 00:07:51,366 Speaker 1: have just been so thrilled for you and Kurt. 143 00:07:51,806 --> 00:07:52,206 Speaker 3: They were. 144 00:07:52,406 --> 00:07:55,206 Speaker 2: They it was such a huge time for my whole family, 145 00:07:55,326 --> 00:07:58,766 Speaker 2: my parents and my in laws in particular. Yeah, it 146 00:07:58,806 --> 00:08:02,285 Speaker 2: was just it was unbelievable. It was so nerve wracking, 147 00:08:02,326 --> 00:08:04,446 Speaker 2: and you know, it was such a big process. 148 00:08:05,046 --> 00:08:05,606 Speaker 3: We all so. 149 00:08:05,646 --> 00:08:08,686 Speaker 2: Didn't tell anyone that we were doing the surrogacy process 150 00:08:08,846 --> 00:08:11,006 Speaker 2: except for our parents. 151 00:08:11,486 --> 00:08:12,606 Speaker 3: So my brothers. 152 00:08:12,286 --> 00:08:16,766 Speaker 2: Actually didn't know until Sophie was pregnant. Oh wow, Yeah, 153 00:08:16,806 --> 00:08:19,126 Speaker 2: which might seem strange, but I just the thought of 154 00:08:19,206 --> 00:08:23,126 Speaker 2: breaking their hearts again if it didn't work was too much, 155 00:08:23,206 --> 00:08:25,046 Speaker 2: so we actually didn't even tell anyone. 156 00:08:25,086 --> 00:08:27,006 Speaker 3: So it was. Yeah, it was a big surprise. 157 00:08:26,886 --> 00:08:30,086 Speaker 1: And that's amazing. And in terms of obviously you can't 158 00:08:30,126 --> 00:08:33,405 Speaker 1: speak for Sophie, but what was the pregnancy like for her, 159 00:08:33,486 --> 00:08:36,806 Speaker 1: and what was it like for you watching your sister 160 00:08:37,166 --> 00:08:38,126 Speaker 1: carry your child? 161 00:08:38,766 --> 00:08:40,006 Speaker 3: Yeah? God, where do I start. 162 00:08:40,606 --> 00:08:44,366 Speaker 2: Sophie doesn't have easy pregnancies, so she was very sick 163 00:08:44,566 --> 00:08:48,006 Speaker 2: for about twenty weeks, which blows my mind even more. 164 00:08:48,126 --> 00:08:49,446 Speaker 3: But it was hard. 165 00:08:49,606 --> 00:08:53,846 Speaker 2: It was watching her be pregnant. My brain told me 166 00:08:53,926 --> 00:08:56,846 Speaker 2: that that was her baby. It was really hard to 167 00:08:56,926 --> 00:09:00,726 Speaker 2: connect with what was my baby that was growing in 168 00:09:00,726 --> 00:09:04,406 Speaker 2: her and also seeing her suffer so much, and she 169 00:09:04,526 --> 00:09:06,726 Speaker 2: hid a lot of it from me, but seeing her suffer, 170 00:09:06,806 --> 00:09:09,846 Speaker 2: like you know, she's my younger sister, being protective of 171 00:09:09,886 --> 00:09:13,846 Speaker 2: her as well, it was a really challenging time emotionally. 172 00:09:14,566 --> 00:09:16,766 Speaker 1: Was there any yearning from you that you wanted to 173 00:09:17,285 --> 00:09:20,966 Speaker 1: I don't know if jealousy is the right term, but yeah, 174 00:09:21,285 --> 00:09:23,246 Speaker 1: not being able to do it yourself, did you feel 175 00:09:23,285 --> 00:09:27,326 Speaker 1: some kind of like, yeah, jealousy in that phrase, because 176 00:09:27,366 --> 00:09:29,045 Speaker 1: I imagine that would be really hard. 177 00:09:29,846 --> 00:09:32,886 Speaker 3: Yeah. It was probably one of the hardest parts. 178 00:09:33,006 --> 00:09:36,006 Speaker 2: That it's something that I wanted so badly for my 179 00:09:36,246 --> 00:09:40,286 Speaker 2: entire life, and I had to, you know, just accept 180 00:09:40,326 --> 00:09:42,805 Speaker 2: the fact that I wasn't going to be pregnant and 181 00:09:43,006 --> 00:09:45,166 Speaker 2: this is what I had to do for my baby, 182 00:09:45,606 --> 00:09:47,325 Speaker 2: and it's what I had to do for Kirk to 183 00:09:47,366 --> 00:09:50,285 Speaker 2: become a father. Also in the background, you don't want 184 00:09:50,326 --> 00:09:53,285 Speaker 2: to come off as ungrateful, because I was just so 185 00:09:53,486 --> 00:09:56,685 Speaker 2: unbelievably grateful, but it was still really painful at the 186 00:09:56,726 --> 00:09:58,445 Speaker 2: same time having to let go of that. 187 00:09:59,045 --> 00:10:04,046 Speaker 1: Yeah, after Sophie starts to feel better, was the pregnancy okay, 188 00:10:04,285 --> 00:10:06,326 Speaker 1: like any health issues, any problems. 189 00:10:06,846 --> 00:10:08,246 Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't say there was problems. 190 00:10:08,326 --> 00:10:11,126 Speaker 2: Like being her third pregnancy, it wasn't easy on her 191 00:10:11,246 --> 00:10:13,646 Speaker 2: as the you know, as the pregnancy went on. My 192 00:10:13,846 --> 00:10:16,045 Speaker 2: baby was also a lot bigger than hers, which was 193 00:10:16,165 --> 00:10:20,126 Speaker 2: a little bit uncomfortable. But yeah, aches and pains and 194 00:10:20,326 --> 00:10:23,165 Speaker 2: you know, just the normal stuff. But once she got 195 00:10:23,246 --> 00:10:26,406 Speaker 2: over her nausea and she actually was diagnosed with HG, 196 00:10:26,606 --> 00:10:28,925 Speaker 2: so she was really unwell once she got over that. 197 00:10:29,206 --> 00:10:32,966 Speaker 2: It was just planning for the delivery really. Yeah, it 198 00:10:33,086 --> 00:10:35,205 Speaker 2: was in the middle of it as well, so that 199 00:10:35,446 --> 00:10:36,246 Speaker 2: was quite tricky. 200 00:10:36,606 --> 00:10:39,926 Speaker 1: Yeah, what was the delivery process? Like during COVID, were 201 00:10:39,966 --> 00:10:41,526 Speaker 1: you able to be with her? 202 00:10:42,165 --> 00:10:44,806 Speaker 3: Well, we had planned for her to have a cesarean. 203 00:10:45,206 --> 00:10:47,726 Speaker 2: Her doctor thought that that would be better on her 204 00:10:48,006 --> 00:10:50,486 Speaker 2: body because she wanted to continue to have a family 205 00:10:50,606 --> 00:10:55,405 Speaker 2: after being a surrogate. So that was planned for the Wednesday, 206 00:10:55,606 --> 00:10:58,165 Speaker 2: and she actually went into labor on the Tuesday night, 207 00:10:58,405 --> 00:11:01,726 Speaker 2: so we were told for the cesarian we wouldn't be 208 00:11:01,766 --> 00:11:05,285 Speaker 2: all out in theater and her husband Sean was going 209 00:11:05,646 --> 00:11:07,205 Speaker 2: with her and we were going to wait in the 210 00:11:07,326 --> 00:11:09,726 Speaker 2: room on the ward. At that stage, we didn't know 211 00:11:09,726 --> 00:11:11,326 Speaker 2: if Goldie was a boy or a girl, so they 212 00:11:11,366 --> 00:11:12,926 Speaker 2: were just going to wheel her in with a little 213 00:11:12,926 --> 00:11:15,045 Speaker 2: bow in her head or a little beanie on. But 214 00:11:15,326 --> 00:11:18,646 Speaker 2: it changed and luckily enough, Kurt and Sean and I 215 00:11:18,846 --> 00:11:20,806 Speaker 2: were able to be in the room with Sophie while 216 00:11:20,886 --> 00:11:21,646 Speaker 2: she delivered. 217 00:11:21,806 --> 00:11:23,126 Speaker 3: So it was very special. 218 00:11:23,446 --> 00:11:25,925 Speaker 1: Oh well, that would have been amazing. 219 00:11:26,606 --> 00:11:27,766 Speaker 3: It was, Yeah, it was. 220 00:11:28,726 --> 00:11:30,685 Speaker 2: It was hard seeing her in so much pain and 221 00:11:30,766 --> 00:11:34,366 Speaker 2: there was absolutely nothing I could do. But yeah, she 222 00:11:34,566 --> 00:11:37,366 Speaker 2: did what she does best, and she'd done it twice before, 223 00:11:37,486 --> 00:11:39,326 Speaker 2: and yeah, it was very special. 224 00:11:39,726 --> 00:11:42,086 Speaker 1: So she ended up having a vaginal delivery. 225 00:11:42,006 --> 00:11:42,366 Speaker 3: She did. 226 00:11:42,686 --> 00:11:45,685 Speaker 2: Yep, Goldie decided to come early at thirty seven and 227 00:11:45,886 --> 00:11:49,126 Speaker 2: four days, so yeah. She At one point she said 228 00:11:49,366 --> 00:11:50,925 Speaker 2: while she was in labor, am I going to go 229 00:11:51,045 --> 00:11:53,086 Speaker 2: down and have a cesarian now? And said, no, you're 230 00:11:53,126 --> 00:11:56,766 Speaker 2: too far along. You'll deliver on the operating table. So yeah, 231 00:11:56,846 --> 00:11:59,086 Speaker 2: that's how it went, and it ended up going really well. 232 00:11:59,486 --> 00:12:03,726 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Goldie comes out. You see it's a girl. Yeah, 233 00:12:04,126 --> 00:12:07,685 Speaker 1: described to me that first moment of meeting her. 234 00:12:08,246 --> 00:12:11,846 Speaker 3: Oh, it was incredible. Like I said, I didn't. I 235 00:12:11,966 --> 00:12:15,246 Speaker 3: really struggled associating that Sophie was carrying my baby, not 236 00:12:15,326 --> 00:12:15,726 Speaker 3: her own. 237 00:12:16,086 --> 00:12:20,606 Speaker 2: And when I saw her head come out and she 238 00:12:20,886 --> 00:12:23,085 Speaker 2: was turning and I saw her little face, I just 239 00:12:23,285 --> 00:12:26,406 Speaker 2: instantly just thought, oh my god, that is my baby. 240 00:12:26,966 --> 00:12:30,166 Speaker 3: And I was yeah, I was down there and Kurt 241 00:12:30,526 --> 00:12:32,526 Speaker 3: was behind me holding my hand, and they. 242 00:12:32,486 --> 00:12:34,925 Speaker 2: Pulled her out and they said what is it, and 243 00:12:35,126 --> 00:12:37,646 Speaker 2: we both at the same time screamed, it's the girl. 244 00:12:38,326 --> 00:12:42,006 Speaker 2: And I just was hysterically crying. It was just the 245 00:12:42,285 --> 00:12:44,965 Speaker 2: best moment of my life. It was unbelievable. 246 00:12:45,366 --> 00:12:49,606 Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah, what was your sister and her husband 247 00:12:49,646 --> 00:12:52,405 Speaker 1: doing at this time? Were they crying as well? I 248 00:12:52,486 --> 00:12:54,286 Speaker 1: imagine it would have been a room full of emotion, 249 00:12:54,806 --> 00:12:55,206 Speaker 1: of course. 250 00:12:55,486 --> 00:12:58,606 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, the Midwives, it certainly was. 251 00:12:59,206 --> 00:13:03,286 Speaker 2: Sean was actually taking a video, so that was really handy, 252 00:13:03,806 --> 00:13:06,926 Speaker 2: but he was, Yeah, he was there, and I mean 253 00:13:06,966 --> 00:13:10,366 Speaker 2: it gets quite technical. I didn't want the baby to 254 00:13:10,446 --> 00:13:12,846 Speaker 2: be passed straight to me because I wanted Sophie's body 255 00:13:12,926 --> 00:13:15,766 Speaker 2: to recognize that she had birthed the baby, so she 256 00:13:15,926 --> 00:13:17,766 Speaker 2: had a little towel on her chest and they put 257 00:13:17,846 --> 00:13:20,526 Speaker 2: the baby on her, but immediately. 258 00:13:20,165 --> 00:13:21,925 Speaker 3: She was like, oh, this is too much. 259 00:13:22,165 --> 00:13:24,846 Speaker 2: So Goldie came to me and I had skin to 260 00:13:24,886 --> 00:13:30,086 Speaker 2: skin and I also induced slactation, so I was able 261 00:13:30,165 --> 00:13:32,086 Speaker 2: to breastfeed Goldie immediately. 262 00:13:32,766 --> 00:13:34,366 Speaker 1: Oh that would have been so special. 263 00:13:34,926 --> 00:13:35,846 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. 264 00:13:36,206 --> 00:13:39,045 Speaker 3: I just felt like it was really important for me 265 00:13:39,206 --> 00:13:42,686 Speaker 3: to bond with her. So, yeah, it was all happening. 266 00:13:42,766 --> 00:13:45,006 Speaker 1: And this is making me a bit emotional, Like I 267 00:13:45,165 --> 00:13:50,126 Speaker 1: just I'm such an EmPATH, Like I just imagine how 268 00:13:51,045 --> 00:13:52,606 Speaker 1: what a relief it would have been for you to 269 00:13:52,686 --> 00:13:55,285 Speaker 1: hold your child after eight years of trying to have 270 00:13:55,405 --> 00:13:58,246 Speaker 1: a baby and holding your baby for the first time 271 00:13:58,846 --> 00:14:02,086 Speaker 1: and being able to feed her. Yeah from your body. Yeah, 272 00:14:02,806 --> 00:14:04,685 Speaker 1: finally your body is doing well. 273 00:14:04,766 --> 00:14:05,806 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it thing. 274 00:14:05,846 --> 00:14:07,925 Speaker 2: Yeah, my FAD's doing something I needed it to do, 275 00:14:08,045 --> 00:14:12,205 Speaker 2: which was really big emotionally for me. Yeah, she was 276 00:14:12,526 --> 00:14:15,006 Speaker 2: born a little early, but she was big and she 277 00:14:15,285 --> 00:14:17,846 Speaker 2: was happy, and it was honestly just a dream contry. 278 00:14:18,045 --> 00:14:20,846 Speaker 2: I just could not believe that the moment that you know, 279 00:14:21,166 --> 00:14:23,446 Speaker 2: we've been fighting for for so long was actually there 280 00:14:23,526 --> 00:14:27,326 Speaker 2: and I was holding our baby Goldie is genetically mine 281 00:14:27,366 --> 00:14:30,085 Speaker 2: and Kurt's baby. So, yeah, it was unbelievable. 282 00:14:30,606 --> 00:14:33,486 Speaker 1: I often think about that because, you know, something I 283 00:14:33,526 --> 00:14:36,726 Speaker 1: think doesn't get talked about a lot is how much 284 00:14:36,806 --> 00:14:39,166 Speaker 1: you feel like your body is failing you. And it 285 00:14:39,726 --> 00:14:43,246 Speaker 1: is so frustrating because it feels like it's you know, 286 00:14:43,366 --> 00:14:45,086 Speaker 1: this is what this is what I'm supposed to be doing. 287 00:14:45,166 --> 00:14:46,526 Speaker 1: Why can't I do it? Why can't I do it? 288 00:14:46,526 --> 00:14:49,326 Speaker 1: It's just like this. You beat yourself up so much 289 00:14:49,486 --> 00:14:52,846 Speaker 1: when you go through that infertility. Yeah, so I can 290 00:14:52,966 --> 00:14:55,926 Speaker 1: just imagine that that feeling of relief and joy and 291 00:14:56,806 --> 00:14:57,205 Speaker 1: having that. 292 00:14:57,566 --> 00:14:57,766 Speaker 3: Yeah. 293 00:14:58,006 --> 00:15:01,166 Speaker 1: So Goldie is three now, Yeah, does she know that 294 00:15:01,646 --> 00:15:04,366 Speaker 1: her auntie Sophie carried her? Does she know any of 295 00:15:04,446 --> 00:15:04,846 Speaker 1: that yet? 296 00:15:05,086 --> 00:15:07,366 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah. We have a book that we read to her. 297 00:15:07,526 --> 00:15:11,406 Speaker 2: It's called The Very Kind Koala, and the Kind Koala has, 298 00:15:11,726 --> 00:15:13,486 Speaker 2: you know, a baby in her pouch and then once 299 00:15:13,566 --> 00:15:15,166 Speaker 2: the baby comes out of her pouch, she gives the 300 00:15:15,246 --> 00:15:18,806 Speaker 2: baby to the baby's mummy and daddy. So she understands 301 00:15:18,846 --> 00:15:21,606 Speaker 2: that she knows that her auntie, that she grew in 302 00:15:21,646 --> 00:15:25,526 Speaker 2: her auntie's belly, and she's known that forever. I show 303 00:15:25,566 --> 00:15:28,406 Speaker 2: her photos and videos and yeah, she understands that. I 304 00:15:28,446 --> 00:15:31,686 Speaker 2: think she thinks it's very normal and it's not. But 305 00:15:32,126 --> 00:15:32,926 Speaker 2: that's her normal. 306 00:15:33,326 --> 00:15:35,085 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is her normal, and I think it's a 307 00:15:35,166 --> 00:15:39,366 Speaker 1: beautiful way to explain it. Coming up, it. 308 00:15:39,406 --> 00:15:42,526 Speaker 2: Still doesn't seem real. It's I just cannot believe it 309 00:15:42,606 --> 00:15:45,566 Speaker 2: actually happened. And even though he was still IVF, it's 310 00:15:45,806 --> 00:15:49,206 Speaker 2: an absolute miracle for me to be able to actually 311 00:15:49,286 --> 00:15:52,406 Speaker 2: feel pregnant and carry him for something we never ever 312 00:15:52,486 --> 00:15:53,566 Speaker 2: thought was possible. 313 00:15:57,446 --> 00:16:00,486 Speaker 1: Then you decided to have a second child. 314 00:16:01,166 --> 00:16:04,606 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we knew that we wouldn't do surregacy again. 315 00:16:04,766 --> 00:16:07,206 Speaker 2: Sophie and Sean going to continue with building their family, 316 00:16:07,326 --> 00:16:09,806 Speaker 2: and it's not something that we would ever expect them 317 00:16:09,886 --> 00:16:13,286 Speaker 2: to do for us. Again, to look at surrogacy overseas, 318 00:16:13,366 --> 00:16:16,246 Speaker 2: you're looking at two three hundred thousand dollars. At that point, 319 00:16:16,366 --> 00:16:20,205 Speaker 2: we were just so grateful to be parents and to 320 00:16:20,326 --> 00:16:25,366 Speaker 2: have Goldie. But I had nine I think nine embryos saved. 321 00:16:26,006 --> 00:16:29,326 Speaker 2: So we decided that we would transfer those embryos to me, 322 00:16:29,686 --> 00:16:33,166 Speaker 2: and with no expectation that they would work. Of course, 323 00:16:33,286 --> 00:16:37,206 Speaker 2: we'd had so many failed transfers, so we transferred an 324 00:16:37,326 --> 00:16:44,326 Speaker 2: embryo and it actually took so we were just over 325 00:16:44,406 --> 00:16:48,126 Speaker 2: the moon, but unfortunately that ended in a miscarriage, and 326 00:16:48,726 --> 00:16:51,766 Speaker 2: that miscarriage was a genetic issue with the embryo. It 327 00:16:51,846 --> 00:16:53,606 Speaker 2: was a complete fluke and it had nothing to do 328 00:16:53,686 --> 00:16:57,806 Speaker 2: with my body. But that pregnancy gave us hope which 329 00:16:57,846 --> 00:17:02,166 Speaker 2: we'd never had, so we decided to try again, which 330 00:17:02,246 --> 00:17:05,886 Speaker 2: resulted in a failed transfer, and then the it's fair 331 00:17:05,966 --> 00:17:09,086 Speaker 2: after that has resulted in my son, who I had 332 00:17:09,526 --> 00:17:12,806 Speaker 2: three weeks ago, so massive tourna events. 333 00:17:13,406 --> 00:17:15,406 Speaker 1: I had to bring this up because, you know, I 334 00:17:16,006 --> 00:17:21,086 Speaker 1: after so many years, Yeah, to finally be carrying a baby, 335 00:17:21,246 --> 00:17:23,566 Speaker 1: to finally have a pregnancy, Yeah. 336 00:17:23,886 --> 00:17:27,326 Speaker 2: It's still it still doesn't seem real. It's I just 337 00:17:27,486 --> 00:17:30,246 Speaker 2: cannot believe it actually happened. And even though he was 338 00:17:30,246 --> 00:17:33,606 Speaker 2: still IVF, it's an absolute miracle. Ivf's normal to me, 339 00:17:34,606 --> 00:17:37,766 Speaker 2: but for me to be able to actually fell pregnant 340 00:17:37,846 --> 00:17:40,886 Speaker 2: and carry him was something we never ever thought that 341 00:17:41,526 --> 00:17:42,086 Speaker 2: was possible. 342 00:17:42,726 --> 00:17:46,766 Speaker 1: Well, he's here, he is, He's here and happy. I'm 343 00:17:46,806 --> 00:17:50,406 Speaker 1: sure Sophie was thrilled for you to be experiencing pregnancy 344 00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:50,846 Speaker 1: as well. 345 00:17:51,446 --> 00:17:55,006 Speaker 2: She was. She actually when he was born, and she 346 00:17:55,166 --> 00:17:58,206 Speaker 2: came and met him the day was born. That's I 347 00:17:58,246 --> 00:18:00,406 Speaker 2: think when it hit her, so soph and I were 348 00:18:00,446 --> 00:18:00,846 Speaker 2: I think. 349 00:18:00,726 --> 00:18:02,606 Speaker 3: In a bit of denial the whole time, even though 350 00:18:02,686 --> 00:18:03,486 Speaker 3: my belly. 351 00:18:03,286 --> 00:18:06,406 Speaker 2: Was growing, and it wasn't until he was born and 352 00:18:06,526 --> 00:18:08,806 Speaker 2: she kind of saw me in the hospital and I 353 00:18:08,926 --> 00:18:11,926 Speaker 2: think it kind of hit her then that, Yeah, she 354 00:18:12,086 --> 00:18:13,286 Speaker 2: actually was pregnant. 355 00:18:12,926 --> 00:18:13,566 Speaker 3: At the same time. 356 00:18:14,046 --> 00:18:14,406 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 357 00:18:14,806 --> 00:18:17,486 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we were pregnant together. She had a daughter, 358 00:18:17,606 --> 00:18:20,606 Speaker 2: Valley in March. So yeah, it was very special. 359 00:18:20,886 --> 00:18:23,886 Speaker 1: That's so special. Yeah, that's something that you kind of 360 00:18:23,966 --> 00:18:27,166 Speaker 1: dream of as a sister, like being pregnant together, like 361 00:18:27,286 --> 00:18:31,486 Speaker 1: having babies together. I feel like that's such a normal 362 00:18:31,606 --> 00:18:34,326 Speaker 1: process to think of, and to have that after so 363 00:18:34,486 --> 00:18:36,966 Speaker 1: much time would have been a really special bond for 364 00:18:37,086 --> 00:18:37,566 Speaker 1: the two of you. 365 00:18:37,966 --> 00:18:39,006 Speaker 3: Yeah, we were so lucky. 366 00:18:39,206 --> 00:18:42,526 Speaker 2: We have experienced so much together, but then to experience 367 00:18:42,606 --> 00:18:45,006 Speaker 2: pregnancies together was really special. Yeah. 368 00:18:45,526 --> 00:18:48,806 Speaker 1: And he's here now, Freddie three weeks old, making some 369 00:18:48,926 --> 00:18:50,006 Speaker 1: noise in the background. 370 00:18:50,326 --> 00:18:51,366 Speaker 3: Yeah, hiccuffing. 371 00:18:51,926 --> 00:18:53,246 Speaker 1: Is Goldie a good big sister. 372 00:18:53,806 --> 00:18:56,166 Speaker 3: She is a good big sister. She loves him. 373 00:18:56,406 --> 00:18:58,486 Speaker 2: She's hit three at the same time. So it was 374 00:18:58,486 --> 00:19:00,566 Speaker 2: a bit of an interesting journey there. But with regards 375 00:19:00,606 --> 00:19:03,006 Speaker 2: of being a sister, Yeah, she's great. 376 00:19:03,526 --> 00:19:06,046 Speaker 1: And what about any advice you would have for people 377 00:19:06,206 --> 00:19:12,366 Speaker 1: going through you know, infertility and keeping going after all 378 00:19:12,446 --> 00:19:12,966 Speaker 1: that time. 379 00:19:13,806 --> 00:19:17,646 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well, my advice is probably a bit controversial, 380 00:19:17,726 --> 00:19:20,606 Speaker 2: but I think there's a lot of toxic positivity around 381 00:19:21,326 --> 00:19:24,806 Speaker 2: infertility and trying for a baby, and I personally think 382 00:19:24,886 --> 00:19:27,766 Speaker 2: that there's more strength in letting go than there is 383 00:19:28,046 --> 00:19:32,246 Speaker 2: in continuing to keep killing yourself trying to have a baby. 384 00:19:32,726 --> 00:19:35,846 Speaker 3: So I actually found peace. 385 00:19:35,646 --> 00:19:38,166 Speaker 2: In looking at what my life would look like without 386 00:19:38,206 --> 00:19:41,606 Speaker 2: children and the positive, you know life that I could 387 00:19:41,686 --> 00:19:44,766 Speaker 2: lead with Kurt, it was my nightmare. I didn't the 388 00:19:44,886 --> 00:19:47,446 Speaker 2: last thing I wanted was to you know, not have children. 389 00:19:47,886 --> 00:19:49,766 Speaker 2: But I felt like that gave me some peace that 390 00:19:49,886 --> 00:19:52,086 Speaker 2: if worst came to worse, I could still be happy. 391 00:19:52,366 --> 00:19:54,246 Speaker 1: I don't think that's controversial at all. I think that 392 00:19:54,326 --> 00:19:56,646 Speaker 1: that's actually a really wonderful take. 393 00:19:57,046 --> 00:19:58,326 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. 394 00:19:58,406 --> 00:20:00,766 Speaker 2: I just know a podcast about you know, people that 395 00:20:00,886 --> 00:20:03,446 Speaker 2: chose to live their life child free, and I really 396 00:20:03,566 --> 00:20:07,166 Speaker 2: just found that so helpful that along with have other 397 00:20:07,286 --> 00:20:09,566 Speaker 2: interests in your life, it's so easy for it to 398 00:20:09,686 --> 00:20:13,326 Speaker 2: just consume everything, and it does anyway, but there's got 399 00:20:13,366 --> 00:20:15,926 Speaker 2: to be something else that you're putting your focus on 400 00:20:16,006 --> 00:20:16,366 Speaker 2: as well. 401 00:20:16,886 --> 00:20:19,206 Speaker 3: It's too hard to do otherwise. 402 00:20:19,886 --> 00:20:23,086 Speaker 1: Yeah, And is Freddie a good baby? Is he treating 403 00:20:23,166 --> 00:20:23,446 Speaker 1: you well? 404 00:20:23,966 --> 00:20:26,686 Speaker 2: He is. He hasn't really woken up yet, so I 405 00:20:26,766 --> 00:20:29,566 Speaker 2: don't want to talk too soon, but he's eating and 406 00:20:30,046 --> 00:20:32,566 Speaker 2: sleeping and pooling and doing all the things. 407 00:20:32,406 --> 00:20:34,726 Speaker 3: That you want your baby to do. So yeah, it's 408 00:20:34,806 --> 00:20:36,166 Speaker 3: it's a dreams so far. 409 00:20:36,806 --> 00:20:39,206 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's 410 00:20:39,326 --> 00:20:42,606 Speaker 1: really remarkable to hear about. You know, what a beautiful 411 00:20:42,646 --> 00:20:44,726 Speaker 1: thing for your sister to do for you, and what 412 00:20:44,846 --> 00:20:47,566 Speaker 1: a way to bond the two of you. So thank 413 00:20:47,606 --> 00:20:50,046 Speaker 1: you so much for sharing your story. And I'm so 414 00:20:50,286 --> 00:20:53,686 Speaker 1: happy that you know you've got your two babies, and 415 00:20:54,206 --> 00:20:56,686 Speaker 1: you know, even after all of those hard years, you're 416 00:20:56,726 --> 00:20:58,205 Speaker 1: able to still have your family. 417 00:20:58,766 --> 00:21:00,646 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're so lucky. Thank you for having me. 418 00:21:06,246 --> 00:21:08,886 Speaker 1: Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Casenulu Kitsch. 419 00:21:09,286 --> 00:21:12,286 Speaker 1: If you like our show, don't forget to subscribe and rate. 420 00:21:12,526 --> 00:21:15,286 Speaker 1: It goes a long way to allowing us to continue 421 00:21:15,406 --> 00:21:19,686 Speaker 1: sharing your stories. This episode was produced by Ella Maitland 422 00:21:19,806 --> 00:21:23,926 Speaker 1: and myself Casenula Kitsch, with audio production by Tina. 423 00:21:23,726 --> 00:21:36,806 Speaker 2: Mattalov, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. 424 00:21:36,926 --> 00:21:40,286 Speaker 2: We have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of 425 00:21:40,366 --> 00:21:43,806 Speaker 2: the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their elders 426 00:21:43,926 --> 00:21:47,766 Speaker 2: past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal 427 00:21:47,846 --> 00:21:49,486 Speaker 2: and Torres Rate Islander cultures.