1 00:00:05,646 --> 00:00:09,686 Speaker 1: You're listening to. 2 00:00:06,926 --> 00:00:12,605 Speaker 2: A Mother of Me podcast. Hi, it's Cassanne Lucidge here, 3 00:00:12,846 --> 00:00:15,726 Speaker 2: host of Diary of a Birth, and this summer we've 4 00:00:15,806 --> 00:00:18,965 Speaker 2: curated your delivery room playlist to bring you even more 5 00:00:19,046 --> 00:00:22,686 Speaker 2: unmissable birth stories. This summer, we're bringing you our favorite 6 00:00:22,726 --> 00:00:25,766 Speaker 2: episodes of Diary of a Birth right here in your feet. 7 00:00:26,206 --> 00:00:29,206 Speaker 2: That's your holiday listening, Sordid And if you're looking for 8 00:00:29,286 --> 00:00:32,605 Speaker 2: more to listen to, every Muma mea podcast is curating 9 00:00:32,646 --> 00:00:36,326 Speaker 2: your summer listening right across our network. From pop culture 10 00:00:36,366 --> 00:00:40,326 Speaker 2: to beauty to powerful interviews, there's something for everyone. Check 11 00:00:40,326 --> 00:00:46,205 Speaker 2: out the link in the show notes. Hi, I'm Cassania 12 00:00:46,285 --> 00:00:50,365 Speaker 2: Lukage and this is Diary of a Birth. Birth is 13 00:00:50,406 --> 00:00:54,365 Speaker 2: different all over the world, both culturally and financially. And 14 00:00:54,406 --> 00:00:56,686 Speaker 2: while I'm fairly familiar with the way the system works 15 00:00:56,726 --> 00:01:00,406 Speaker 2: here in Australia, what does pregnancy and birth look like 16 00:01:00,566 --> 00:01:07,206 Speaker 2: in a socially democratic society like Sweden. Today's mum had 17 00:01:07,206 --> 00:01:10,806 Speaker 2: her first two children here in Australia, and looking for adventure, 18 00:01:11,006 --> 00:01:14,046 Speaker 2: her and her Swedish partner flew across the world and 19 00:01:14,126 --> 00:01:20,246 Speaker 2: relocated to Sweden. Then she unexpectedly felt pregnant navigating pregnancy 20 00:01:20,366 --> 00:01:24,246 Speaker 2: halfway around the world wasn't always easy, especially with a 21 00:01:24,406 --> 00:01:26,926 Speaker 2: very unexpected complication during birth. 22 00:01:27,406 --> 00:01:30,366 Speaker 1: I just grabbed Gustaf and I was like, I can 23 00:01:30,406 --> 00:01:32,286 Speaker 1: feel everything, Please stop. 24 00:01:32,646 --> 00:01:34,286 Speaker 2: So let's meet today's mum. 25 00:01:34,766 --> 00:01:34,966 Speaker 3: Hi. 26 00:01:35,166 --> 00:01:38,086 Speaker 1: I'm Eliza and this is the diary of my birth 27 00:01:38,166 --> 00:01:41,446 Speaker 1: with August. 28 00:01:42,286 --> 00:01:44,646 Speaker 2: So you were a part of the mom and Maya family. 29 00:01:45,046 --> 00:01:45,286 Speaker 3: Yes. 30 00:01:45,526 --> 00:01:48,126 Speaker 1: So I'm the head of content at MoMA Mia and 31 00:01:48,206 --> 00:01:51,206 Speaker 1: it's so funny. This is actually my first podcast. I'm 32 00:01:51,206 --> 00:01:55,166 Speaker 1: normally behind the scenes, but I love this show and 33 00:01:55,526 --> 00:01:57,766 Speaker 1: I think every woman loves to tell their birth story, 34 00:01:57,846 --> 00:01:58,646 Speaker 1: So here I am. 35 00:01:58,966 --> 00:02:01,806 Speaker 2: As we know, every birth story is very different, and 36 00:02:01,846 --> 00:02:05,126 Speaker 2: I think what makes yours really interesting is that you 37 00:02:05,166 --> 00:02:08,685 Speaker 2: actually gave birth with your third child in Sweden. 38 00:02:09,246 --> 00:02:12,886 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was nothing that I had really expected. 39 00:02:13,446 --> 00:02:17,405 Speaker 1: So I had two kids and my husband and I 40 00:02:17,446 --> 00:02:20,446 Speaker 1: packed up our lives and we moved to Sweden during COVID. 41 00:02:20,606 --> 00:02:24,005 Speaker 1: My husband is Swedish, so it wasn't a random decision 42 00:02:24,085 --> 00:02:27,166 Speaker 1: or a random country. But we hopped on the plane. 43 00:02:27,206 --> 00:02:29,366 Speaker 1: There was only ten other people on the plane. It 44 00:02:29,405 --> 00:02:32,766 Speaker 1: was due at the height of the pandemic, and we 45 00:02:32,846 --> 00:02:37,566 Speaker 1: went just for a year for an adventure and we 46 00:02:37,726 --> 00:02:40,685 Speaker 1: arrived and we ended up loving it, and we both 47 00:02:40,766 --> 00:02:42,966 Speaker 1: ended up getting jobs that we didn't expect. It just 48 00:02:43,046 --> 00:02:47,085 Speaker 1: became great. Everything seemed to really be working for us. 49 00:02:47,125 --> 00:02:47,365 Speaker 3: There. 50 00:02:47,925 --> 00:02:49,846 Speaker 1: A couple of months in, it would have been like 51 00:02:49,965 --> 00:02:53,726 Speaker 1: six months in. At this time, it's like November in Sweden, 52 00:02:53,766 --> 00:02:56,646 Speaker 1: so it's starting to snow, it's starting to get really cold. 53 00:02:57,206 --> 00:03:01,805 Speaker 1: We just had such a great summer, and I started 54 00:03:01,805 --> 00:03:04,685 Speaker 1: feeling really sick and one day I was like, oh 55 00:03:04,726 --> 00:03:09,126 Speaker 1: my god, I'm pregnant. I was actually in a cubicle 56 00:03:09,206 --> 00:03:11,766 Speaker 1: at work, like I'd gone to work early because I 57 00:03:11,805 --> 00:03:14,365 Speaker 1: was like, what's going on with me? I just felt, 58 00:03:14,566 --> 00:03:17,365 Speaker 1: you know, you just know, And I did this pregnancy test, 59 00:03:17,446 --> 00:03:23,365 Speaker 1: and look, it wasn't something we had necessarily wanted. It 60 00:03:23,405 --> 00:03:26,966 Speaker 1: was definitely a surprise, and it was really hard. Like 61 00:03:27,006 --> 00:03:29,566 Speaker 1: I saw that test and I was across the other 62 00:03:29,645 --> 00:03:32,126 Speaker 1: side of the world on what we thought was this 63 00:03:32,245 --> 00:03:36,326 Speaker 1: adventure year. And we had also had discussions before where 64 00:03:36,326 --> 00:03:39,966 Speaker 1: we were like, oh, maybe our family's done. So you know, 65 00:03:40,286 --> 00:03:44,286 Speaker 1: this happened, and you know, you're thirty four and you're like, 66 00:03:44,406 --> 00:03:47,286 Speaker 1: of course, like we should do this, you know, but 67 00:03:47,446 --> 00:03:50,086 Speaker 1: you still felt so much guilt. I felt so much 68 00:03:50,126 --> 00:03:52,606 Speaker 1: guilt that I could fall pregnant when a lot of 69 00:03:52,606 --> 00:03:55,766 Speaker 1: my friends in Australia were trying to fall pregnant with 70 00:03:55,806 --> 00:03:59,526 Speaker 1: their first or second baby, and here I was with 71 00:03:59,566 --> 00:04:02,006 Speaker 1: a surprise baby. And so there was a lot like 72 00:04:02,046 --> 00:04:04,926 Speaker 1: it was a very hard pregnancy, those first couple of 73 00:04:04,966 --> 00:04:08,046 Speaker 1: weeks of oh my gosh, I'm across the other side 74 00:04:08,046 --> 00:04:10,446 Speaker 1: of the world. I'm away from my close family. I 75 00:04:10,526 --> 00:04:12,966 Speaker 1: still have my husband's family here, of course, but none 76 00:04:12,966 --> 00:04:16,126 Speaker 1: of my best friends are here. I've fallen pregnant when 77 00:04:16,126 --> 00:04:18,246 Speaker 1: a lot of other people would love to be pregnant. 78 00:04:18,326 --> 00:04:21,206 Speaker 1: I don't even know if I want this, So it 79 00:04:21,286 --> 00:04:24,366 Speaker 1: was a lot to take in. And then coupled with that, 80 00:04:24,565 --> 00:04:29,846 Speaker 1: I'm heading into my first winter in Stockholm, so the 81 00:04:29,885 --> 00:04:33,885 Speaker 1: temperature is minus twenty one degrees, you can't go outside. 82 00:04:34,445 --> 00:04:37,725 Speaker 1: I had never even experienced snow. I'd never seen snow before, 83 00:04:38,126 --> 00:04:43,166 Speaker 1: so the darkness, the coldness, coupled with this strange like 84 00:04:43,366 --> 00:04:46,366 Speaker 1: I don't know what's next for my life. And then 85 00:04:46,726 --> 00:04:50,486 Speaker 1: extreme morning sickness. So I was so sick to the 86 00:04:50,486 --> 00:04:55,166 Speaker 1: point I ended up in hospital quite a few times actually, 87 00:04:55,486 --> 00:04:59,246 Speaker 1: and there was one incident in hospital where my throat 88 00:04:59,366 --> 00:05:01,766 Speaker 1: was so sore. I ended up having strep throat and 89 00:05:02,126 --> 00:05:05,486 Speaker 1: I couldn't communicate with the doctors. And because it was 90 00:05:05,565 --> 00:05:07,606 Speaker 1: during COVID, you were only allowed to go to the hospital, 91 00:05:07,966 --> 00:05:10,486 Speaker 1: so my husband was at home looking after them. I 92 00:05:10,606 --> 00:05:13,366 Speaker 1: can barely communicate with the doctors. I just want to 93 00:05:13,406 --> 00:05:16,046 Speaker 1: go home. Like it was really really hard at the start, 94 00:05:16,366 --> 00:05:19,606 Speaker 1: but at their like ten week mark, we told my 95 00:05:19,726 --> 00:05:22,246 Speaker 1: mum and my dad as well as my in laws, 96 00:05:23,046 --> 00:05:26,966 Speaker 1: and they were so excited for us, and I think 97 00:05:27,005 --> 00:05:30,446 Speaker 1: at that point we were like, yes, lose this attitude. 98 00:05:30,846 --> 00:05:33,686 Speaker 1: We are so excited. We are already parents of two. 99 00:05:33,846 --> 00:05:36,445 Speaker 1: We know how to do this. We can bring this 100 00:05:36,565 --> 00:05:38,846 Speaker 1: child up. It is actually going to be okay. And 101 00:05:38,885 --> 00:05:41,606 Speaker 1: so that kind of put a lot of our you know, 102 00:05:41,646 --> 00:05:43,966 Speaker 1: it was still a cold to take in. It quahed 103 00:05:44,005 --> 00:05:46,405 Speaker 1: a lot of our worries. And then what was so 104 00:05:46,726 --> 00:05:49,645 Speaker 1: nice was we told the boys. So we have two 105 00:05:49,646 --> 00:05:53,606 Speaker 1: boys at that time, they would have been four and five, 106 00:05:53,765 --> 00:05:56,965 Speaker 1: so we had them quite close. Because you had them 107 00:05:57,005 --> 00:06:00,926 Speaker 1: so close, I never got to see the oldest really 108 00:06:01,046 --> 00:06:04,085 Speaker 1: understand that he was getting a younger brother. So it 109 00:06:04,166 --> 00:06:06,486 Speaker 1: was just incredible to be able to tell them and 110 00:06:06,526 --> 00:06:10,846 Speaker 1: They were like, what do you mean we got a baby? Like, wow, 111 00:06:11,005 --> 00:06:13,046 Speaker 1: how did the baby come? And I was like, oh, 112 00:06:13,086 --> 00:06:16,086 Speaker 1: you're six, we're not talking about that yet. But that 113 00:06:16,286 --> 00:06:20,046 Speaker 1: was really exciting. Like, so, what was so interesting about 114 00:06:20,046 --> 00:06:22,885 Speaker 1: this pregnancyre was that we were so nervous and scared 115 00:06:22,926 --> 00:06:25,606 Speaker 1: about it, but everyone around us was so excited. It 116 00:06:25,646 --> 00:06:28,046 Speaker 1: also just changed everything. It meant that we stayed in 117 00:06:28,286 --> 00:06:32,005 Speaker 1: Stockholm longer, and Yeah, it was really really incredible. 118 00:06:32,325 --> 00:06:34,726 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to go back a little bit to 119 00:06:35,526 --> 00:06:39,286 Speaker 2: the guilt thing because I actually find that really interesting 120 00:06:39,325 --> 00:06:43,246 Speaker 2: because I struggled to fall pregnant with my first and 121 00:06:43,846 --> 00:06:45,885 Speaker 2: I had a lot of friends who did fall pregnant 122 00:06:45,885 --> 00:06:48,566 Speaker 2: and hesitated telling me because they didn't want to make 123 00:06:48,565 --> 00:06:51,885 Speaker 2: me feel bad. It's interesting that you said that you 124 00:06:51,926 --> 00:06:54,405 Speaker 2: felt guilt. Was there someone in your life who was 125 00:06:54,526 --> 00:06:57,486 Speaker 2: really trying and you felt that guilt particularly? 126 00:06:58,046 --> 00:07:01,366 Speaker 1: Yeah, before we left to go to Sweden, two of 127 00:07:01,366 --> 00:07:05,126 Speaker 1: my best friends were both trying and we had had 128 00:07:05,246 --> 00:07:08,005 Speaker 1: lots of conversations, the three of us. They were both 129 00:07:08,005 --> 00:07:10,686 Speaker 1: trying for their second child, and we'd had a lot 130 00:07:10,726 --> 00:07:13,886 Speaker 1: of conversations like where they were like, it's just not working. 131 00:07:14,606 --> 00:07:18,246 Speaker 1: We're doing everything. What about this, and I was really 132 00:07:18,286 --> 00:07:21,766 Speaker 1: part of those conversations with them, and so when I 133 00:07:21,926 --> 00:07:27,006 Speaker 1: found out when it had been a surprise, I did 134 00:07:27,286 --> 00:07:31,046 Speaker 1: immediately go, oh my god. It is a really hard feeling. 135 00:07:31,486 --> 00:07:34,886 Speaker 1: But the irony actually was both of them were pregnant, 136 00:07:35,486 --> 00:07:38,686 Speaker 1: so I told them and they told me, and all 137 00:07:38,766 --> 00:07:43,046 Speaker 1: of our kids are actually around two weeks apart. So 138 00:07:43,566 --> 00:07:45,886 Speaker 1: it did all work out, but it doesn't for everyone, 139 00:07:45,926 --> 00:07:48,886 Speaker 1: and it is really hard. And I think what's really 140 00:07:48,926 --> 00:07:51,206 Speaker 1: hard about pregnancy is even I found this with my 141 00:07:51,326 --> 00:07:54,726 Speaker 1: first I have always been quite sick in my pregnancies 142 00:07:54,726 --> 00:07:57,286 Speaker 1: and I haven't loved it. And you have this like 143 00:07:57,486 --> 00:08:00,166 Speaker 1: internal struggle where you're so excited and you know how 144 00:08:00,246 --> 00:08:03,606 Speaker 1: lucky you are, but you also know people would want 145 00:08:03,606 --> 00:08:05,086 Speaker 1: to be in your place, so you don't want to 146 00:08:05,086 --> 00:08:07,526 Speaker 1: complain too much about it. I do think there is 147 00:08:07,566 --> 00:08:11,566 Speaker 1: this really interesting pool that we have when it comes 148 00:08:11,606 --> 00:08:14,886 Speaker 1: to like fertility privilege, because like I do think I 149 00:08:14,926 --> 00:08:19,446 Speaker 1: am very fortunate when it comes to like my fertility privilege, 150 00:08:19,486 --> 00:08:23,126 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean like every moment has been really easy. 151 00:08:23,406 --> 00:08:26,285 Speaker 2: I think the empathy that you show is really beautiful, 152 00:08:26,326 --> 00:08:29,006 Speaker 2: and I think that anyone that is struggling with fertility 153 00:08:29,206 --> 00:08:32,526 Speaker 2: and has that empathy that's kind of what a friendship needs. 154 00:08:33,006 --> 00:08:35,206 Speaker 2: I know this isn't really what this is about, but 155 00:08:35,966 --> 00:08:39,406 Speaker 2: I'm really fascinated by that because I remember counting the 156 00:08:39,446 --> 00:08:42,526 Speaker 2: amount of people that felt pregnant while we were trying, 157 00:08:43,446 --> 00:08:45,726 Speaker 2: and it like hurt every time, And it was one 158 00:08:45,726 --> 00:08:48,366 Speaker 2: of those things where it was like I'm really happy 159 00:08:48,366 --> 00:08:50,246 Speaker 2: for them, but I'm really sad for me. 160 00:08:50,846 --> 00:08:51,086 Speaker 1: Yeah. 161 00:08:51,206 --> 00:08:53,045 Speaker 2: So it's that kind of double edge sold and I'm 162 00:08:53,045 --> 00:08:54,766 Speaker 2: sure that you felt the same that You're like, I 163 00:08:54,806 --> 00:08:58,445 Speaker 2: feel really happy, but then I'm like this guilt of 164 00:08:58,846 --> 00:09:00,326 Speaker 2: you know, my friends who really want that. 165 00:09:00,686 --> 00:09:02,766 Speaker 1: But also I found like with my first, my first 166 00:09:02,806 --> 00:09:06,126 Speaker 1: took longer, and I do remember I'd see pregnant woman 167 00:09:06,165 --> 00:09:07,846 Speaker 1: walking down the street and I'd be like, oh, I 168 00:09:07,926 --> 00:09:12,206 Speaker 1: hate her. Yeah, And so it's one of those things 169 00:09:12,246 --> 00:09:14,766 Speaker 1: when you do go you know both sides. You're like, 170 00:09:14,806 --> 00:09:16,606 Speaker 1: I know that this person would be happy for me, 171 00:09:16,686 --> 00:09:21,486 Speaker 1: but I also would hate me. Like so it's so complicated. 172 00:09:21,806 --> 00:09:24,886 Speaker 1: It's just part of being women. And like the empathy 173 00:09:24,926 --> 00:09:27,046 Speaker 1: women do feel like You're right, like I do think 174 00:09:27,086 --> 00:09:33,046 Speaker 1: women are just socially can understand these situations probably better 175 00:09:33,045 --> 00:09:35,246 Speaker 1: than men. Like how hard it is to try, and 176 00:09:35,285 --> 00:09:38,006 Speaker 1: how hard it is to want something and not get it, 177 00:09:38,405 --> 00:09:41,886 Speaker 1: And so when that comes to you really easily, you 178 00:09:41,966 --> 00:09:43,166 Speaker 1: do feel guilt. 179 00:09:43,566 --> 00:09:47,165 Speaker 2: Let's move on to being pregnant in Sweden. Now, obviously 180 00:09:47,165 --> 00:09:51,006 Speaker 2: you didn't speak the language. You had two small children 181 00:09:51,086 --> 00:09:55,206 Speaker 2: who were in daycare school. How did that process work? Yeah? 182 00:09:55,246 --> 00:09:57,526 Speaker 1: So I was working full time in Sweden. I was 183 00:09:57,566 --> 00:10:00,846 Speaker 1: working for Voke Scandinavia. It was all done in English, 184 00:10:00,926 --> 00:10:03,766 Speaker 1: so it's a very easy country to get around with English. 185 00:10:03,846 --> 00:10:07,966 Speaker 1: So I was very lazy learning Swedish. The Swedish system, 186 00:10:08,405 --> 00:10:12,886 Speaker 1: it's a social democratic system, so it's incredible. I kick 187 00:10:13,006 --> 00:10:17,246 Speaker 1: myself why I'm not still there? It's so incredible. All 188 00:10:17,285 --> 00:10:20,366 Speaker 1: of daycare, all of the schooling is paid for. So 189 00:10:20,446 --> 00:10:23,486 Speaker 1: I think our bills were probably equivalent of about one 190 00:10:23,566 --> 00:10:26,286 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars Australian a month a month, and 191 00:10:26,326 --> 00:10:31,366 Speaker 1: that's full time sorry for childcare for childcare. Yeah wow, yeah, 192 00:10:31,405 --> 00:10:34,325 Speaker 1: so I know, it's so silly. Why am I not there? Yeah? 193 00:10:34,366 --> 00:10:37,046 Speaker 1: So they're in childcare full time. I was working full time, 194 00:10:37,686 --> 00:10:41,566 Speaker 1: so it was all relatively quite easy in that sense 195 00:10:41,726 --> 00:10:43,366 Speaker 1: that you know, I had quite a lot of care 196 00:10:43,446 --> 00:10:47,606 Speaker 1: and support around that. The prenatal care was very different 197 00:10:47,686 --> 00:10:51,325 Speaker 1: in the sense that in Australia I had gone through 198 00:10:51,486 --> 00:10:55,285 Speaker 1: the private system, so I had an obstetrician who then 199 00:10:55,326 --> 00:10:58,206 Speaker 1: I saw every week of whatever you know when you 200 00:10:58,285 --> 00:11:02,366 Speaker 1: do it every eight weeks. But in Sweden, once again 201 00:11:02,486 --> 00:11:04,926 Speaker 1: it's you pay high taxes, but it does mean a 202 00:11:04,966 --> 00:11:09,686 Speaker 1: lot of that healthcare is free, so it's really rare 203 00:11:10,006 --> 00:11:12,646 Speaker 1: to have private I wouldn't even know how to go 204 00:11:12,686 --> 00:11:16,526 Speaker 1: about it. What the system is. It is a midwife program, 205 00:11:17,165 --> 00:11:20,925 Speaker 1: so you have a provider that you go to and 206 00:11:20,966 --> 00:11:23,366 Speaker 1: it's the same midwife and if she's away, there's two 207 00:11:23,446 --> 00:11:26,286 Speaker 1: others that you work with, so you're always meeting the 208 00:11:26,285 --> 00:11:30,526 Speaker 1: same midwife in a location near you. Actually those locations 209 00:11:30,806 --> 00:11:33,966 Speaker 1: normally then have a nurse who then you see afterwards 210 00:11:33,966 --> 00:11:36,445 Speaker 1: with your child, so it's quite nice. It's the before 211 00:11:36,526 --> 00:11:39,326 Speaker 1: and after care is all done in one space. Then 212 00:11:39,405 --> 00:11:42,366 Speaker 1: you do your scans at a hospital where then you 213 00:11:42,405 --> 00:11:45,766 Speaker 1: see a doctor at the scans. But what was interesting 214 00:11:46,006 --> 00:11:50,805 Speaker 1: is Sweden didn't do the blood test that you can 215 00:11:50,846 --> 00:11:52,246 Speaker 1: do in Australia to find out. 216 00:11:52,126 --> 00:11:53,406 Speaker 2: The sex the NBAT. 217 00:11:54,165 --> 00:11:57,766 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I had found out quite early the sex 218 00:11:57,766 --> 00:12:00,406 Speaker 1: of my first two boys. So it wasn't until a 219 00:12:00,446 --> 00:12:03,206 Speaker 1: scan at halfway scan that I found out the sex 220 00:12:03,405 --> 00:12:05,246 Speaker 1: when it came to August and he was another boy. 221 00:12:05,566 --> 00:12:08,806 Speaker 1: There were a few differences, Yeah, I think definitely. The 222 00:12:08,846 --> 00:12:13,246 Speaker 1: Swedish system is a lot more hands off in the 223 00:12:13,326 --> 00:12:16,446 Speaker 1: sense that there's not as many tests. They're just a 224 00:12:16,446 --> 00:12:19,325 Speaker 1: bit more chill, like just in general the society is 225 00:12:19,366 --> 00:12:20,126 Speaker 1: a lot more chill. 226 00:12:20,326 --> 00:12:23,126 Speaker 2: So yeah, because I mean it's fairly normal here in 227 00:12:23,165 --> 00:12:25,926 Speaker 2: Australia at that sort of ten eleven week mark to 228 00:12:26,086 --> 00:12:28,766 Speaker 2: do a NIT test. Yeah, you know, you do the 229 00:12:28,806 --> 00:12:30,966 Speaker 2: blood test for the genetic testing and you can find 230 00:12:31,165 --> 00:12:34,725 Speaker 2: out the sex. And like you, I was very impatient 231 00:12:34,726 --> 00:12:38,246 Speaker 2: and found out straight away. But they don't even offer that. 232 00:12:38,726 --> 00:12:40,646 Speaker 1: No, No, it wasn't even offered. 233 00:12:40,806 --> 00:12:43,486 Speaker 2: Did that frustrate you or were you okay with that? 234 00:12:43,566 --> 00:12:45,446 Speaker 1: Yes? I was like, what do you mean I have 235 00:12:45,486 --> 00:12:48,886 Speaker 1: to wait twenty weeks? How dare you? Yeah? So as 236 00:12:48,926 --> 00:12:53,246 Speaker 1: a really impatient person, it did frustrate me. I'm sure 237 00:12:53,285 --> 00:12:56,246 Speaker 1: if you looked into it more potentially, but it wasn't 238 00:12:56,246 --> 00:12:58,766 Speaker 1: even offered. Yeah, it was just interesting. There was just 239 00:12:58,886 --> 00:13:05,165 Speaker 1: little things. We never did the glucose test that tests okay, Yeah, 240 00:13:05,326 --> 00:13:08,766 Speaker 1: I think there's also different diseases in Sweden, so there 241 00:13:08,806 --> 00:13:11,086 Speaker 1: was different vaccinations that I had to receive, So there 242 00:13:11,165 --> 00:13:15,406 Speaker 1: was just some differences. It's really interesting giving birth in 243 00:13:15,446 --> 00:13:16,206 Speaker 1: a different place. 244 00:13:16,606 --> 00:13:19,725 Speaker 2: I just think it's fascinating to hear about the different systems. 245 00:13:19,766 --> 00:13:25,566 Speaker 2: And obviously Sweden have an incredible healthcare system and to 246 00:13:25,686 --> 00:13:28,446 Speaker 2: have it all that support is amazing, but to hear 247 00:13:28,486 --> 00:13:32,325 Speaker 2: those little, those little maya differences is quite interesting. 248 00:13:32,806 --> 00:13:35,405 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think when I went private in Australia, 249 00:13:35,886 --> 00:13:38,526 Speaker 1: each time you see your obstitution, you're doing a scan 250 00:13:38,566 --> 00:13:41,006 Speaker 1: and you're seeing the baby. I didn't see the baby 251 00:13:41,045 --> 00:13:44,366 Speaker 1: as much. I only saw the baby once or twice 252 00:13:44,766 --> 00:13:49,045 Speaker 1: on scans, So it was Yeah, it just is more chill. 253 00:13:49,206 --> 00:13:50,646 Speaker 1: I think that's the best way to say it. 254 00:13:50,886 --> 00:13:54,926 Speaker 2: And what about the actual birthing process. Is there a 255 00:13:54,966 --> 00:13:58,766 Speaker 2: bit more of a push first home births or midwa 256 00:13:58,846 --> 00:14:03,446 Speaker 2: free support or what is the general consensus of birth 257 00:14:03,686 --> 00:14:04,366 Speaker 2: in Sweden? 258 00:14:04,846 --> 00:14:08,606 Speaker 1: It's very much whatever you want. It's not really a 259 00:14:08,606 --> 00:14:11,806 Speaker 1: push for anything. Like I said, they're very chill, like 260 00:14:11,886 --> 00:14:14,046 Speaker 1: they're so like, oh yeah, if you want to do formula, 261 00:14:14,206 --> 00:14:17,246 Speaker 1: do formula. If you don't want to breastfeed, whatever for me. 262 00:14:18,126 --> 00:14:21,326 Speaker 1: I had had an emergency CAESAR for my first birth, 263 00:14:21,566 --> 00:14:23,366 Speaker 1: so I had then had a plan caesar for my 264 00:14:23,446 --> 00:14:26,846 Speaker 1: second because it was within an eighteen month period, and 265 00:14:26,966 --> 00:14:29,526 Speaker 1: so with August, they weren't even going to let me 266 00:14:29,886 --> 00:14:32,926 Speaker 1: try a vaginal birth, which I was so happy with. 267 00:14:33,166 --> 00:14:37,486 Speaker 2: Okay, so you've spoken to your providers and you're locking 268 00:14:37,526 --> 00:14:41,446 Speaker 2: in your C section date. When did you do that? 269 00:14:41,886 --> 00:14:44,846 Speaker 1: So I think we locked in the date probably at 270 00:14:44,886 --> 00:14:47,686 Speaker 1: around the twenty week mark. They're like, okay, we'll put 271 00:14:47,686 --> 00:14:50,526 Speaker 1: you in for the ninth of August. And it was 272 00:14:50,646 --> 00:14:56,126 Speaker 1: all really planned and really quite simple and easy. I 273 00:14:56,206 --> 00:14:59,086 Speaker 1: did have some pretty bad oh by the end. I 274 00:14:59,166 --> 00:15:03,046 Speaker 1: was just like so heavy and the pressure. I was 275 00:15:03,046 --> 00:15:04,606 Speaker 1: in quite a lot of pain at the end, and 276 00:15:04,646 --> 00:15:06,246 Speaker 1: I did. There was a few times where I'm like, 277 00:15:06,446 --> 00:15:08,286 Speaker 1: I think I might be going into labor, Like it 278 00:15:08,326 --> 00:15:11,326 Speaker 1: really hurts, I can't walk anymore, you know, just that pain, 279 00:15:11,446 --> 00:15:14,366 Speaker 1: that heavy pain. And so I'd just turn up at 280 00:15:14,366 --> 00:15:16,606 Speaker 1: the hospital and be like I'm in pain, and they 281 00:15:16,686 --> 00:15:19,606 Speaker 1: be like, okay, come and lie down and we'll test you. 282 00:15:19,886 --> 00:15:24,206 Speaker 1: So it was quite good. Every time. They were so sweet. 283 00:15:24,326 --> 00:15:27,726 Speaker 1: Every time they would turn up, they'd be like, you're 284 00:15:27,726 --> 00:15:29,766 Speaker 1: just exhausted, like you have two kids in a full 285 00:15:29,806 --> 00:15:34,246 Speaker 1: time job and you're carrying a baby, like just go home. 286 00:15:34,286 --> 00:15:36,766 Speaker 1: But the system made you never feel like you were 287 00:15:36,806 --> 00:15:39,966 Speaker 1: overreacting or they were always just like no, it's always 288 00:15:39,966 --> 00:15:42,006 Speaker 1: better to be safe than sorry, which I found, like 289 00:15:42,046 --> 00:15:45,166 Speaker 1: you find in Australia as well. It was really lovely. 290 00:15:44,926 --> 00:15:46,166 Speaker 2: Care coming up. 291 00:15:46,726 --> 00:15:49,206 Speaker 1: Like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh, that was 292 00:15:49,406 --> 00:15:54,046 Speaker 1: really scary. It's really interesting. I think had August have 293 00:15:54,126 --> 00:15:57,646 Speaker 1: been my first, I would have found it probably hard 294 00:15:57,686 --> 00:15:59,086 Speaker 1: to want to have another baby. 295 00:16:03,446 --> 00:16:06,286 Speaker 2: You go in on your planned you're at your sort 296 00:16:06,286 --> 00:16:09,006 Speaker 2: of thirty nine week mark, tell me about the preparation. 297 00:16:09,686 --> 00:16:13,006 Speaker 1: So I am so ready to have this baby, oh 298 00:16:13,046 --> 00:16:17,206 Speaker 1: my god. Like I was huge and just felt so 299 00:16:17,366 --> 00:16:21,246 Speaker 1: heavy and so sore and so bloody tired. So I 300 00:16:21,366 --> 00:16:24,366 Speaker 1: was so ready to have this baby. Also, it was summer, 301 00:16:24,526 --> 00:16:28,926 Speaker 1: So summer in Sweden is incredible because everyone just shuts down. 302 00:16:29,206 --> 00:16:31,846 Speaker 1: So everyone goes on like a five week holiday because 303 00:16:31,886 --> 00:16:34,286 Speaker 1: it like is literally twenty two degrees which is like 304 00:16:34,326 --> 00:16:36,566 Speaker 1: a heat wave there, so they're all like yay, let's 305 00:16:36,606 --> 00:16:40,366 Speaker 1: get out there. No one's working. I'd had like four 306 00:16:40,366 --> 00:16:44,206 Speaker 1: weeks off where we'd traveled and you know, I'd waddled around, 307 00:16:44,686 --> 00:16:46,806 Speaker 1: but I'd had some really nice time with the boys, 308 00:16:46,846 --> 00:16:49,566 Speaker 1: who were then on holidays as well. We lived near 309 00:16:49,606 --> 00:16:51,686 Speaker 1: our in laws, so the boys were all planned to 310 00:16:51,686 --> 00:16:55,486 Speaker 1: go there. I'd bought like a cute little matching set 311 00:16:55,566 --> 00:16:58,926 Speaker 1: for the of the hospital, packed my bags. I was 312 00:16:59,406 --> 00:17:03,526 Speaker 1: really prepped. My parents were also gonna fly from Australia 313 00:17:03,566 --> 00:17:05,646 Speaker 1: to come, so once I was out of host but 314 00:17:05,726 --> 00:17:08,766 Speaker 1: all they would be there. So I was feeling like, 315 00:17:09,286 --> 00:17:11,686 Speaker 1: maybe probably a little bit arrogant, like I was, I've 316 00:17:11,726 --> 00:17:15,646 Speaker 1: got this, this is great. So I went in really calm, 317 00:17:15,806 --> 00:17:18,286 Speaker 1: expecting that it would all be fine, and that, like 318 00:17:18,526 --> 00:17:20,006 Speaker 1: I knew the drill a little bit. 319 00:17:20,046 --> 00:17:21,806 Speaker 2: You felt prepared and you were prepared. 320 00:17:22,246 --> 00:17:23,486 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us. 321 00:17:23,406 --> 00:17:26,766 Speaker 2: What happened when they gave you the spinal tap. 322 00:17:27,126 --> 00:17:30,646 Speaker 1: Yeah, so look that part I remember with my second 323 00:17:31,806 --> 00:17:34,606 Speaker 1: I remember walking in to have a caesar and being like, oh, wow, 324 00:17:34,646 --> 00:17:37,206 Speaker 1: this is a lot clinical than I thought, Like you're 325 00:17:37,206 --> 00:17:39,006 Speaker 1: going to labor and you're like, cool, I'm having a baby, 326 00:17:39,046 --> 00:17:42,046 Speaker 1: and you're in that mindset. And then I ended up 327 00:17:42,086 --> 00:17:45,086 Speaker 1: having emergency caesar, which was actually fine and beautiful and 328 00:17:45,126 --> 00:17:47,846 Speaker 1: I loved it. But then the second time around, having 329 00:17:47,846 --> 00:17:50,886 Speaker 1: a planned caesar, I realized that you're going in for 330 00:17:50,926 --> 00:17:55,366 Speaker 1: an operation, and I did actually find that quite nerve wracking. 331 00:17:55,526 --> 00:17:58,086 Speaker 1: And I do remember like shaking as you're getting because 332 00:17:58,086 --> 00:18:00,726 Speaker 1: you before I was in labor, so having a spinal 333 00:18:00,766 --> 00:18:03,846 Speaker 1: tap and when you're in labor it's kind of part 334 00:18:03,886 --> 00:18:06,965 Speaker 1: of it. But to go in cold and have that 335 00:18:07,006 --> 00:18:08,686 Speaker 1: in your back, like it is quite nerve wracking, Like 336 00:18:08,686 --> 00:18:11,686 Speaker 1: I'm quite scared of needles. I was, like, I was 337 00:18:11,726 --> 00:18:12,725 Speaker 1: a bit nervous about that. 338 00:18:13,046 --> 00:18:14,766 Speaker 2: Is gustaff with you at this point. 339 00:18:15,046 --> 00:18:17,766 Speaker 1: So you wheeled into the room. So your husband comes 340 00:18:17,806 --> 00:18:19,926 Speaker 1: with you. He's in his scrubs. You know, all the 341 00:18:19,966 --> 00:18:23,526 Speaker 1: doctors speak English. Obviously their first language is Swedish, so 342 00:18:23,566 --> 00:18:25,606 Speaker 1: they probably talk Swedish to each other, but everyone can 343 00:18:25,606 --> 00:18:29,166 Speaker 1: speak English to me. So I feel completely fine and 344 00:18:29,246 --> 00:18:32,086 Speaker 1: I'm you know, at ease beneath it. Us is so lovely. 345 00:18:32,446 --> 00:18:34,326 Speaker 1: She explains what she's going to do. She puts a 346 00:18:34,366 --> 00:18:37,246 Speaker 1: spinal tap in, she moves me into the room, and 347 00:18:37,286 --> 00:18:40,126 Speaker 1: then what they do is to test that the area 348 00:18:40,286 --> 00:18:44,086 Speaker 1: is numb to cut, they use ice. So with a 349 00:18:44,406 --> 00:18:47,686 Speaker 1: C section, you still can feel the tugging because you 350 00:18:47,726 --> 00:18:50,806 Speaker 1: are awake. It's just you don't feel the pain and 351 00:18:50,966 --> 00:18:53,846 Speaker 1: new that and I know how it feels, so it's 352 00:18:53,926 --> 00:18:56,246 Speaker 1: quite a strange sensation because you are numb, but you 353 00:18:56,326 --> 00:18:59,726 Speaker 1: still know that they're there. So they're doing the ice 354 00:18:59,846 --> 00:19:03,006 Speaker 1: tests and you can feel one part of you feels 355 00:19:03,006 --> 00:19:04,886 Speaker 1: the ice is cold, and then the other parts just 356 00:19:04,966 --> 00:19:07,886 Speaker 1: kind of not me to feel it. She just kept 357 00:19:07,926 --> 00:19:09,406 Speaker 1: doing it to me and I was like, no, I 358 00:19:09,406 --> 00:19:11,566 Speaker 1: can still feel it. I can still feel it. So 359 00:19:11,566 --> 00:19:15,286 Speaker 1: they put more in, They put more of the anesthetic in, 360 00:19:16,006 --> 00:19:19,006 Speaker 1: and this just keeps happening for about maybe forty minutes. 361 00:19:19,646 --> 00:19:22,286 Speaker 1: At this point, you're so desperate to have a baby. 362 00:19:22,806 --> 00:19:27,126 Speaker 1: I'm kind of also confused because you know that it's 363 00:19:27,126 --> 00:19:29,966 Speaker 1: not meant to be cold, but you know that you 364 00:19:30,046 --> 00:19:34,086 Speaker 1: still can feel it. So by this point I also 365 00:19:34,206 --> 00:19:37,086 Speaker 1: was just so desperate to have this baby that I 366 00:19:37,126 --> 00:19:40,486 Speaker 1: was like, I think it's working. Because they were like, oh, look, 367 00:19:40,526 --> 00:19:43,166 Speaker 1: maybe we have to come back and try again if 368 00:19:43,206 --> 00:19:45,606 Speaker 1: you don't think it's working. And I was like, no, 369 00:19:45,806 --> 00:19:47,646 Speaker 1: I think it's working, and they're like, yeah, we've given 370 00:19:47,686 --> 00:19:50,046 Speaker 1: you quite a lot like it should be working. So 371 00:19:50,086 --> 00:19:52,806 Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, I think it's working. Let's go, 372 00:19:53,126 --> 00:19:54,086 Speaker 1: so they believed you. 373 00:19:54,486 --> 00:19:56,886 Speaker 2: They believe that you still felt that because I think 374 00:19:56,926 --> 00:19:58,806 Speaker 2: I've heard stories of people who were like I can 375 00:19:58,846 --> 00:20:01,766 Speaker 2: feel pain, Like no, no, no, it's fine. They were 376 00:20:02,366 --> 00:20:03,446 Speaker 2: reassuring you. 377 00:20:03,686 --> 00:20:06,806 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were reassuring, and they were like, Okay, we've 378 00:20:06,846 --> 00:20:09,646 Speaker 1: put this in, we'll try again, We'll give you more time. 379 00:20:10,406 --> 00:20:12,686 Speaker 1: This exchange had gone on four forty minutes, and they 380 00:20:12,686 --> 00:20:14,886 Speaker 1: were like this, it's been forty minutes now, like we 381 00:20:15,086 --> 00:20:17,686 Speaker 1: kind of have to either call it and cry and 382 00:20:17,766 --> 00:20:20,166 Speaker 1: come back this afternoon or we give it like five 383 00:20:20,206 --> 00:20:23,286 Speaker 1: more minutes. And I was like, no, I think I 384 00:20:23,326 --> 00:20:26,886 Speaker 1: can't feel anything, so like let's go. They obviously start 385 00:20:26,886 --> 00:20:29,846 Speaker 1: the operation and a C section takes about eight minutes, 386 00:20:29,926 --> 00:20:33,286 Speaker 1: so it's incredibly fast, and it is it's so incredible 387 00:20:33,286 --> 00:20:36,086 Speaker 1: because it's like, within eight minutes, you have this baby. 388 00:20:36,326 --> 00:20:39,166 Speaker 1: And so they put up the screen. I'm holding Gustav's 389 00:20:39,206 --> 00:20:42,366 Speaker 1: hand and they're cutting and you can still like feel 390 00:20:42,366 --> 00:20:44,726 Speaker 1: a little bit. And then there's just one point where 391 00:20:45,046 --> 00:20:48,126 Speaker 1: I will never forget this moment. I just grabbed Gustaff 392 00:20:48,246 --> 00:20:51,086 Speaker 1: and I was like I can feel every like I 393 00:20:51,086 --> 00:20:55,326 Speaker 1: can feel everything, Please stop. And at that point they 394 00:20:55,326 --> 00:20:58,886 Speaker 1: all start speaking Swedish. They rush, they push good stuff 395 00:20:58,926 --> 00:21:00,806 Speaker 1: out of the room and they go, okay, we need 396 00:21:00,846 --> 00:21:03,646 Speaker 1: to put you under. So they put me under general 397 00:21:03,646 --> 00:21:06,126 Speaker 1: anesthetic and I'm completely then knocked out. 398 00:21:06,446 --> 00:21:08,726 Speaker 2: So you felt them cut you open? 399 00:21:09,326 --> 00:21:13,286 Speaker 1: Yeah, So what I had felt was I think they'd 400 00:21:13,286 --> 00:21:16,046 Speaker 1: done one layer, that it had worked, but then it 401 00:21:16,126 --> 00:21:18,926 Speaker 1: was like, I don't know the medical facts, but there 402 00:21:18,966 --> 00:21:21,446 Speaker 1: are a few different layers that they cut through, and 403 00:21:21,486 --> 00:21:24,046 Speaker 1: it was maybe the third layer that I could feel, 404 00:21:24,366 --> 00:21:27,086 Speaker 1: and at that point I was just I will never 405 00:21:27,166 --> 00:21:30,166 Speaker 1: forget the grip on my husband. I was just like 406 00:21:31,126 --> 00:21:34,286 Speaker 1: I can feel this, Please help, Yeah, screamed and I 407 00:21:34,366 --> 00:21:36,246 Speaker 1: just remember like no, no, no, no, no stop. So 408 00:21:36,246 --> 00:21:39,086 Speaker 1: I like, yeah, it was all over for me. They 409 00:21:39,206 --> 00:21:42,366 Speaker 1: knocked me out so quickly. I was under general anesthetic. 410 00:21:42,566 --> 00:21:45,286 Speaker 1: So during that time they then continued to operate where 411 00:21:45,286 --> 00:21:49,126 Speaker 1: I was completely knocked out. August was then born and 412 00:21:49,166 --> 00:21:51,406 Speaker 1: he was examined and given to my husband to do 413 00:21:51,486 --> 00:21:55,206 Speaker 1: skin on skin, and then I woke up maybe half 414 00:21:55,246 --> 00:21:57,966 Speaker 1: an hour later. And I woke up and I was like, oh, 415 00:21:58,046 --> 00:22:00,086 Speaker 1: I really needed that sleep, and they're like, you have 416 00:22:00,126 --> 00:22:04,726 Speaker 1: a baby. I was like, oh, okay, because you're so disorientated, 417 00:22:04,886 --> 00:22:08,246 Speaker 1: you know when you up from a operation and you're 418 00:22:08,246 --> 00:22:10,806 Speaker 1: a bit disorientated. I wake up and I was like, oh, oh, 419 00:22:10,846 --> 00:22:14,766 Speaker 1: I have a baby. It was bizarre. It was really bizarre. 420 00:22:15,126 --> 00:22:17,166 Speaker 2: Bizarre's definitely one would I just want to go back. 421 00:22:17,206 --> 00:22:21,166 Speaker 2: So they were very very fast with this. You said 422 00:22:21,246 --> 00:22:25,926 Speaker 2: I feel this, and the anetheist comes and just basically 423 00:22:25,966 --> 00:22:28,686 Speaker 2: knocks you out. There was no yeah, are you ready 424 00:22:28,726 --> 00:22:30,486 Speaker 2: to be knocked out? It was like no, we're putting 425 00:22:30,526 --> 00:22:30,886 Speaker 2: you under. 426 00:22:31,446 --> 00:22:34,126 Speaker 1: It was a flurry and it was good stuff. You 427 00:22:34,166 --> 00:22:35,886 Speaker 1: have to leave. You can't be here for here. We 428 00:22:35,966 --> 00:22:38,686 Speaker 1: need to put her under. And you feel like you're 429 00:22:38,726 --> 00:22:41,846 Speaker 1: in a medical show where it's that flurry around you. 430 00:22:41,926 --> 00:22:44,686 Speaker 1: And it was like okay, like everyone out, We've got 431 00:22:44,686 --> 00:22:49,406 Speaker 1: to put her under. When I woke up, I didn't 432 00:22:49,486 --> 00:22:52,166 Speaker 1: kind of realize the extent of what I'd gone through. 433 00:22:52,206 --> 00:22:52,806 Speaker 3: A little bit. 434 00:22:53,046 --> 00:22:57,046 Speaker 1: I had August. He was safe, he was really great baby, 435 00:22:57,206 --> 00:23:00,646 Speaker 1: he fed really well. So I don't think it was 436 00:23:00,726 --> 00:23:04,006 Speaker 1: until like a couple of months later when things got hard. 437 00:23:04,166 --> 00:23:06,966 Speaker 1: You know, when you're waking up and night like I'd 438 00:23:07,046 --> 00:23:10,046 Speaker 1: have flashbacks and be like, oh that was really scary. 439 00:23:10,766 --> 00:23:15,046 Speaker 1: It's really interesting. I think had August have been my first. 440 00:23:16,046 --> 00:23:18,166 Speaker 1: I would have found it probably hard to want to 441 00:23:18,206 --> 00:23:21,406 Speaker 1: have another baby. Maybe. Yeah, it's one of those things 442 00:23:21,446 --> 00:23:25,566 Speaker 1: if I think about too long, it was quite scary. Yeah, 443 00:23:25,606 --> 00:23:28,806 Speaker 1: but in the moment, like the next day, and because 444 00:23:28,846 --> 00:23:31,046 Speaker 1: you have a baby, you kind of just soldier on 445 00:23:31,166 --> 00:23:31,446 Speaker 1: a bit. 446 00:23:31,806 --> 00:23:34,286 Speaker 2: I completely understand that. I'm just thinking about how quickly 447 00:23:34,326 --> 00:23:39,366 Speaker 2: that happened. And obviously or probably not entirely cognizant of 448 00:23:39,406 --> 00:23:42,606 Speaker 2: what's going on, but has good stuff told you what 449 00:23:42,886 --> 00:23:45,366 Speaker 2: he felt when he was basically pushed out of the room. 450 00:23:45,766 --> 00:23:48,486 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like, it happened so quickly. He's like, 451 00:23:48,526 --> 00:23:50,566 Speaker 1: I just was not allowed to be there. And then 452 00:23:50,606 --> 00:23:52,526 Speaker 1: he's like, but it was nice, like I got to 453 00:23:52,566 --> 00:23:55,366 Speaker 1: have Orgie and I knew you were safe. Like he 454 00:23:55,446 --> 00:23:59,926 Speaker 1: knew it was bad, but no one felt endangered. Yeah, 455 00:23:59,966 --> 00:24:02,806 Speaker 1: so it was just more, oh my god, like what's happening. 456 00:24:02,806 --> 00:24:05,726 Speaker 1: It was also just so quick. I think, yeah, you 457 00:24:05,886 --> 00:24:09,206 Speaker 1: probably loved that he got to have the baby first. 458 00:24:10,726 --> 00:24:13,926 Speaker 1: But it's funny when you wake up and you're so drugged. 459 00:24:14,126 --> 00:24:18,206 Speaker 1: There's video of me and like what I'm saying, it's 460 00:24:18,246 --> 00:24:22,606 Speaker 1: like almost comical. It's like one of those like hilarious comedies. 461 00:24:22,646 --> 00:24:27,286 Speaker 1: Where the person wakes up on painkillers and what I'm saying, 462 00:24:27,326 --> 00:24:28,846 Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. I'm embarrassed. 463 00:24:29,646 --> 00:24:31,926 Speaker 2: Did you wake up and go, am I pregnant? Or 464 00:24:32,006 --> 00:24:32,886 Speaker 2: have I had a baby? 465 00:24:32,966 --> 00:24:35,606 Speaker 1: Like I was just like that was the first sleep 466 00:24:35,686 --> 00:24:41,246 Speaker 1: of my life. And I was like, it was really 467 00:24:41,326 --> 00:24:43,846 Speaker 1: good that it happened like this, Like I just really 468 00:24:43,926 --> 00:24:46,246 Speaker 1: needed a sleep. And because I was like, you've literally 469 00:24:46,286 --> 00:24:47,766 Speaker 1: been out for thirty minutes. 470 00:24:48,166 --> 00:24:49,646 Speaker 2: It must have been a really good nap. 471 00:24:50,766 --> 00:24:53,766 Speaker 1: It was a great thirty minute nap, but it was 472 00:24:54,166 --> 00:24:55,686 Speaker 1: not ideal what happened to. 473 00:24:55,726 --> 00:25:00,366 Speaker 2: Know, and then August came and how soon after you 474 00:25:00,406 --> 00:25:02,246 Speaker 2: woke up or you able to hold him? 475 00:25:02,726 --> 00:25:04,726 Speaker 1: They put him on my chest pretty soon. And so 476 00:25:04,806 --> 00:25:07,046 Speaker 1: that's where the like video of me and he's on 477 00:25:07,086 --> 00:25:09,486 Speaker 1: my chest and I'm like, aren't you cute? Where did 478 00:25:09,566 --> 00:25:12,486 Speaker 1: you get this little beanie from? Like that's quite funny 479 00:25:12,486 --> 00:25:16,006 Speaker 1: footage because I'm still very like coming to after the 480 00:25:16,046 --> 00:25:18,806 Speaker 1: general anesthetic. So he was on my chest straight away. 481 00:25:18,886 --> 00:25:21,406 Speaker 1: I could start feeding him straight away. I also knew 482 00:25:21,406 --> 00:25:24,166 Speaker 1: the drill that often with cesareans, you can't get up 483 00:25:24,206 --> 00:25:26,726 Speaker 1: and walk after twenty four hours. I knew that my 484 00:25:26,846 --> 00:25:30,366 Speaker 1: recovery would be like that. It was interesting. The next day, 485 00:25:30,446 --> 00:25:33,846 Speaker 1: the Anethodus came and spoke to me and she said, look, 486 00:25:33,886 --> 00:25:37,606 Speaker 1: I honestly did everything right. If I had to do that, Docige, 487 00:25:37,606 --> 00:25:39,686 Speaker 1: I would still do it again. And I said, why 488 00:25:39,686 --> 00:25:41,646 Speaker 1: do you think this happened to me? And she just said, 489 00:25:41,766 --> 00:25:45,446 Speaker 1: I'm quite tall, and she's like, sometimes it's to do 490 00:25:45,566 --> 00:25:49,126 Speaker 1: with height. But it had worked the other two times 491 00:25:49,126 --> 00:25:51,686 Speaker 1: that I'd had it, so yeah. She was like, I 492 00:25:51,806 --> 00:25:56,286 Speaker 1: really don't understand what went wrong, and you know, she guess. 493 00:25:56,326 --> 00:25:59,646 Speaker 1: She apologized for what happened and tried to talk me 494 00:25:59,726 --> 00:26:02,046 Speaker 1: through it. But at the end of the day, like 495 00:26:02,606 --> 00:26:06,206 Speaker 1: I got a healthy baby and I'm healthy, so it 496 00:26:06,326 --> 00:26:07,006 Speaker 1: was all fine. 497 00:26:07,326 --> 00:26:09,686 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, you can also acknowledge the fact 498 00:26:09,686 --> 00:26:12,286 Speaker 2: that that's quite a kind of crazy. You're in a 499 00:26:12,326 --> 00:26:16,006 Speaker 2: different country, you don't speak the language, there's people around you. 500 00:26:16,206 --> 00:26:18,926 Speaker 2: All of a sudden, there's a flurry of activity, and 501 00:26:18,966 --> 00:26:20,886 Speaker 2: then you wake up and there's a baby. 502 00:26:21,326 --> 00:26:21,606 Speaker 3: Yeah. 503 00:26:21,766 --> 00:26:25,086 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was really crazy, and it's really interesting. 504 00:26:25,126 --> 00:26:28,286 Speaker 1: In Sweden, they have this tradition where once you and 505 00:26:28,326 --> 00:26:30,006 Speaker 1: they all talk about it, like as soon as you 506 00:26:30,006 --> 00:26:32,366 Speaker 1: get pregnant, they're like, oh my god, you get the sandwiches. 507 00:26:33,366 --> 00:26:35,206 Speaker 1: You have this baby, and they wheel you back to 508 00:26:35,246 --> 00:26:38,326 Speaker 1: your room and they have these like little sandwiches that 509 00:26:38,366 --> 00:26:40,806 Speaker 1: everyone gets, and they put these little Swedish flags in 510 00:26:40,846 --> 00:26:45,006 Speaker 1: the sandwich and they give you like fake champagne, and 511 00:26:45,046 --> 00:26:47,126 Speaker 1: so you go and you have your like it's just 512 00:26:47,206 --> 00:26:50,046 Speaker 1: it's this weird tradition, and so I was just like, 513 00:26:50,326 --> 00:26:52,606 Speaker 1: I have his baby and now I'm having my fake 514 00:26:52,686 --> 00:26:56,046 Speaker 1: champagne and my sandwich with a Swedish flag, and this 515 00:26:56,246 --> 00:26:56,726 Speaker 1: is lovely. 516 00:26:57,086 --> 00:26:58,646 Speaker 2: I mean, the least they could do is give you 517 00:26:58,686 --> 00:27:00,766 Speaker 2: after all. 518 00:27:00,566 --> 00:27:03,766 Speaker 1: That, Yeah, I know I needed it. What was interesting 519 00:27:03,806 --> 00:27:06,166 Speaker 1: with the recovery though, I do think it did take 520 00:27:06,246 --> 00:27:11,006 Speaker 1: longer because they definitely don't give you as hard painkillers 521 00:27:11,046 --> 00:27:14,046 Speaker 1: as Australia. It was really hard to get. Like I 522 00:27:14,086 --> 00:27:16,606 Speaker 1: was like, I need something stronger than panad all, like 523 00:27:17,046 --> 00:27:21,686 Speaker 1: this is really sore. In Australia, they would constantly make 524 00:27:21,726 --> 00:27:25,406 Speaker 1: sure you're not in pain, especially after a Caesar. But 525 00:27:25,806 --> 00:27:28,366 Speaker 1: I found in Sweden I was literally like can I 526 00:27:28,406 --> 00:27:30,206 Speaker 1: please have more? Can I please have more? And it 527 00:27:30,246 --> 00:27:32,726 Speaker 1: was it was actually a real fight to get anything 528 00:27:32,726 --> 00:27:35,846 Speaker 1: stronger than a panatole. So I don't know why that is, 529 00:27:36,246 --> 00:27:37,566 Speaker 1: but that was something. 530 00:27:37,326 --> 00:27:39,686 Speaker 2: Because, as I understand it, if you have a caesar 531 00:27:40,006 --> 00:27:43,126 Speaker 2: in Australia, they'll give you like an endo or something 532 00:27:43,206 --> 00:27:44,806 Speaker 2: for the first day or so. 533 00:27:45,326 --> 00:27:48,446 Speaker 1: Or even longer. I think if you're like they in Australia, 534 00:27:48,646 --> 00:27:50,606 Speaker 1: they just make sure that you're just not in pain 535 00:27:50,726 --> 00:27:53,646 Speaker 1: at all. So I think in Australia you're on a 536 00:27:53,846 --> 00:27:58,166 Speaker 1: very much tight schedule of like ending panadol where possible, 537 00:27:58,206 --> 00:28:01,126 Speaker 1: like every four hours, you're taking painkillers, so you're never 538 00:28:01,166 --> 00:28:05,046 Speaker 1: in pain. In Sweden, they didn't even offer endome. That's 539 00:28:05,086 --> 00:28:08,526 Speaker 1: my one piece of feedback for the Swedish medical system. 540 00:28:09,246 --> 00:28:12,846 Speaker 1: That recovery was really hard. What was also really interesting 541 00:28:13,326 --> 00:28:17,046 Speaker 1: about Sweden was they are really into skin to skin, 542 00:28:17,846 --> 00:28:20,606 Speaker 1: so they actually don't even give you a cot in 543 00:28:20,646 --> 00:28:21,006 Speaker 1: the room. 544 00:28:21,046 --> 00:28:21,486 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 545 00:28:21,686 --> 00:28:23,846 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you go back to your room and there's 546 00:28:23,886 --> 00:28:26,606 Speaker 1: nowhere to put the baby down, and you don't stay 547 00:28:26,646 --> 00:28:29,766 Speaker 1: in the hospital as long. Well, you know, in Australia 548 00:28:29,806 --> 00:28:32,766 Speaker 1: I stayed in hospital maybe five nights with the caesar, 549 00:28:33,366 --> 00:28:34,926 Speaker 1: but in Sweden they kind of want you to go 550 00:28:35,046 --> 00:28:38,246 Speaker 1: home as soon as you can. Yeah, they don't have 551 00:28:38,326 --> 00:28:40,326 Speaker 1: cots because it's all like the baby needs to be 552 00:28:40,366 --> 00:28:43,286 Speaker 1: on your chest. Basically the whole time. So I found 553 00:28:43,366 --> 00:28:45,486 Speaker 1: that's really strange because I was like, God, I just 554 00:28:45,526 --> 00:28:48,726 Speaker 1: put him down for one second, but there's nowhere to 555 00:28:48,726 --> 00:28:52,766 Speaker 1: put him down to encourage that like connection. The other 556 00:28:52,766 --> 00:28:55,006 Speaker 1: thing that was really interesting is that they don't swaddle. 557 00:28:55,646 --> 00:28:59,086 Speaker 1: So I had like taken my little swaddles from Australia. 558 00:28:59,126 --> 00:29:02,566 Speaker 1: I'd made all my friends like, send me the materials 559 00:29:02,606 --> 00:29:06,846 Speaker 1: that you like. I love the little Fraser Jersey ones 560 00:29:07,406 --> 00:29:09,646 Speaker 1: and so I was like swaddling him and they're like, 561 00:29:09,686 --> 00:29:11,926 Speaker 1: what are you doing to your child? And I was like, 562 00:29:12,166 --> 00:29:14,166 Speaker 1: all the ways you wake up, this is my plan. 563 00:29:14,326 --> 00:29:18,966 Speaker 1: It's the more I reflex totally, and they just did. 564 00:29:19,006 --> 00:29:21,366 Speaker 1: They were like, oh this Australian that wants to put 565 00:29:21,366 --> 00:29:23,886 Speaker 1: a baby down and swaddle it. There was just a 566 00:29:23,926 --> 00:29:26,206 Speaker 1: few cultural differences as well. 567 00:29:26,526 --> 00:29:30,606 Speaker 2: How old was Augie when you came back to Australia. 568 00:29:30,446 --> 00:29:33,246 Speaker 1: So he was one when we moved back, which is 569 00:29:33,286 --> 00:29:36,006 Speaker 1: ironic that he's a Swedish citizen what they all are, 570 00:29:36,126 --> 00:29:38,726 Speaker 1: but he was actually born in Sweden and he's going 571 00:29:38,726 --> 00:29:41,926 Speaker 1: to probably be the worst at Swedish well after me, 572 00:29:42,246 --> 00:29:42,766 Speaker 1: after me. 573 00:29:43,486 --> 00:29:47,006 Speaker 2: Final question the post care, did you get like a 574 00:29:47,126 --> 00:29:50,886 Speaker 2: nurse coming in after you, like you got home. 575 00:29:51,406 --> 00:29:55,166 Speaker 1: It's very similar to Australia. They come I think maybe 576 00:29:55,366 --> 00:29:58,566 Speaker 1: two weeks after you come home and just see how 577 00:29:58,566 --> 00:30:01,446 Speaker 1: you're going with the baby at home in your own environment. 578 00:30:02,246 --> 00:30:05,446 Speaker 1: Then at the six week mark you see your midwa 579 00:30:06,046 --> 00:30:10,526 Speaker 1: and then you continue with the nurse with the baby, 580 00:30:10,646 --> 00:30:13,966 Speaker 1: so if you have any questions, and it was quite 581 00:30:14,006 --> 00:30:17,246 Speaker 1: regular checkups with the nurse and you know, she would 582 00:30:17,406 --> 00:30:22,006 Speaker 1: weigh the baby, very very similar, very similar process to Australia. 583 00:30:22,126 --> 00:30:23,966 Speaker 1: But it was great because you kind of had this 584 00:30:24,086 --> 00:30:26,846 Speaker 1: one nurse that you were assigned to and so if 585 00:30:26,886 --> 00:30:30,606 Speaker 1: we had any problems with Orgie's health or there was 586 00:30:30,606 --> 00:30:34,206 Speaker 1: a question we had, we would just call her. So 587 00:30:34,326 --> 00:30:37,366 Speaker 1: that was really really great. And then in terms of me, 588 00:30:37,806 --> 00:30:41,726 Speaker 1: it was the same midwife afterwards. I think that care 589 00:30:41,846 --> 00:30:45,726 Speaker 1: probably stopped after about maybe ten weeks, but it was 590 00:30:45,766 --> 00:30:48,166 Speaker 1: still good that there was one person you could go to. 591 00:30:48,766 --> 00:30:51,766 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing 592 00:30:51,766 --> 00:30:56,606 Speaker 2: your story and it's yeah, fascinating to hear that cultural difference, 593 00:30:56,686 --> 00:30:58,406 Speaker 2: but terrifying as well. 594 00:30:58,606 --> 00:31:02,286 Speaker 1: With that, Caesar, thank you so much. 595 00:31:07,126 --> 00:31:10,086 Speaker 2: So what does a team do when a spinal tap 596 00:31:10,166 --> 00:31:13,446 Speaker 2: doesn't work? To get the answer, we asked our favorite 597 00:31:13,446 --> 00:31:16,486 Speaker 2: obstetrician and gynecologist, doctor Bronwin divine. 598 00:31:16,806 --> 00:31:19,806 Speaker 3: Look, you can have an experience an esidus. Who's done 599 00:31:19,966 --> 00:31:23,366 Speaker 3: you know, thousands of these and just some women they've 600 00:31:23,406 --> 00:31:27,166 Speaker 3: had their spinal anesthetic can still feel pain and people 601 00:31:27,246 --> 00:31:30,046 Speaker 3: when they've had a spinal or an epidural. Those regional 602 00:31:30,046 --> 00:31:32,846 Speaker 3: blocks are designed to take away the sensation of pain 603 00:31:32,886 --> 00:31:36,806 Speaker 3: and temperature because those nerve fibers run together. The way 604 00:31:36,846 --> 00:31:38,726 Speaker 3: that the block works is to block the pain and 605 00:31:38,766 --> 00:31:41,086 Speaker 3: temperature fibers, which is why they always test with ice. 606 00:31:41,126 --> 00:31:43,806 Speaker 3: They say, this feel cold here. It's definitely cold up 607 00:31:43,806 --> 00:31:46,006 Speaker 3: here on your face, but down here on your tummy 608 00:31:46,046 --> 00:31:49,166 Speaker 3: and below where your legs are. No, it doesn't feel cold. Yep, No, 609 00:31:49,206 --> 00:31:51,086 Speaker 3: it doesn't feel cold. So that's why they're testing it 610 00:31:51,086 --> 00:31:54,846 Speaker 3: with temperature, because pain and temperature are affected the same 611 00:31:54,966 --> 00:31:58,766 Speaker 3: way by those regional blocks. But if someone can feel 612 00:31:58,806 --> 00:32:03,486 Speaker 3: pain during surgery, it's absolutely traumatic for that person. It 613 00:32:03,526 --> 00:32:07,806 Speaker 3: can result in terrible ptas and you know, flashbacks and 614 00:32:07,846 --> 00:32:10,726 Speaker 3: things like that. It's just not okay. It's one of 615 00:32:10,766 --> 00:32:12,326 Speaker 3: those things that just can't happen. 616 00:32:12,486 --> 00:32:12,686 Speaker 2: You know. 617 00:32:12,726 --> 00:32:15,886 Speaker 3: You hear these stories of people waking up under anesthesia 618 00:32:15,926 --> 00:32:18,926 Speaker 3: when they're having other operations, and how traumatic that is. 619 00:32:19,326 --> 00:32:22,846 Speaker 3: You know, it's one of the absolute no, no, no, 620 00:32:23,046 --> 00:32:25,966 Speaker 3: this cannot happen when people are having surgery. They cannot 621 00:32:26,006 --> 00:32:29,326 Speaker 3: have the feeling of pain when they're having surgery performed 622 00:32:29,326 --> 00:32:32,766 Speaker 3: on them. So we try very hard to do our 623 00:32:32,766 --> 00:32:35,966 Speaker 3: cesarean sections under regional block because it is much much 624 00:32:36,006 --> 00:32:40,086 Speaker 3: safer for the mum doing a caesar under general anesthetic. 625 00:32:40,526 --> 00:32:43,846 Speaker 3: A pregnant woman, particularly a heavily pregnant woman, will have 626 00:32:44,446 --> 00:32:48,366 Speaker 3: quite a lot of airway compromise just by dint of 627 00:32:48,446 --> 00:32:51,166 Speaker 3: being pregnant and the extra fluid in her body, and 628 00:32:51,646 --> 00:32:53,006 Speaker 3: you know the fact that she's got a lot of 629 00:32:53,046 --> 00:32:55,206 Speaker 3: pressure in her abdomen and lots of things like that. 630 00:32:55,326 --> 00:32:58,806 Speaker 3: So putting an endotra keel to you, which is what 631 00:32:58,806 --> 00:33:00,646 Speaker 3: you have to have when you have a general anesthetic 632 00:33:01,006 --> 00:33:05,086 Speaker 3: into someone when they have those extra complications of being pregnant, 633 00:33:05,206 --> 00:33:08,486 Speaker 3: can be quite risky for the pregnant woman, and so 634 00:33:09,086 --> 00:33:12,046 Speaker 3: it's become very much the norm to have caesarean sections 635 00:33:12,086 --> 00:33:16,406 Speaker 3: performed under regional block. And an epidural takes quite a 636 00:33:16,446 --> 00:33:18,726 Speaker 3: long time to go in, so that's why when people 637 00:33:18,766 --> 00:33:21,366 Speaker 3: are having caesars that are either done electively or they've 638 00:33:21,366 --> 00:33:23,006 Speaker 3: got to be done as an emergency and there is 639 00:33:23,046 --> 00:33:26,246 Speaker 3: no epidural present, anesodis will try and put a spinal 640 00:33:26,286 --> 00:33:28,526 Speaker 3: in because it can work very quickly and you can 641 00:33:28,566 --> 00:33:30,646 Speaker 3: get the spinal in quickly. It's a lot safer for 642 00:33:30,686 --> 00:33:34,806 Speaker 3: the mum. But if a spinal is not effective, then 643 00:33:34,846 --> 00:33:38,086 Speaker 3: we really have to abandon it and go to a 644 00:33:38,166 --> 00:33:41,126 Speaker 3: general anesthetic. And when that's the case, you know it's 645 00:33:41,166 --> 00:33:43,966 Speaker 3: quite a high risk situation. The anesodis is always going 646 00:33:44,006 --> 00:33:46,246 Speaker 3: to be quite tense about it. They need to get 647 00:33:46,286 --> 00:33:48,806 Speaker 3: the partner out of the room because it's absolutely horrible 648 00:33:48,886 --> 00:33:52,486 Speaker 3: seeing your loved one sort of become paralyzed and go 649 00:33:52,566 --> 00:33:56,006 Speaker 3: off to sleep and be unresponsive. So they usually rush 650 00:33:56,046 --> 00:33:57,846 Speaker 3: the partner out of the room and that's quite traumatic 651 00:33:57,886 --> 00:34:00,126 Speaker 3: for them because they had every intention they were going 652 00:34:00,166 --> 00:34:02,646 Speaker 3: to be there to see their baby being born. And 653 00:34:02,686 --> 00:34:05,486 Speaker 3: then you know, because you know the surgery is already started, 654 00:34:05,606 --> 00:34:07,606 Speaker 3: the initiencies under a lot of pressure to get that 655 00:34:07,646 --> 00:34:09,886 Speaker 3: person to sleep very very quickly, but they have to 656 00:34:09,926 --> 00:34:12,766 Speaker 3: be very careful. They need to do some pre oxygenation 657 00:34:13,046 --> 00:34:16,046 Speaker 3: and make sure that you know, they've got absolutely perfect 658 00:34:16,085 --> 00:34:18,526 Speaker 3: access to the airway and things like that, so it's 659 00:34:18,926 --> 00:34:22,366 Speaker 3: it really is quite a high stress, high tense situation. 660 00:34:22,966 --> 00:34:26,885 Speaker 2: And what about navigating different cultural requests in your practice. 661 00:34:27,205 --> 00:34:29,805 Speaker 3: Australia is a very multicultural society, so we care for 662 00:34:29,966 --> 00:34:32,725 Speaker 3: lots and lots of people from many different cultures and 663 00:34:32,806 --> 00:34:36,805 Speaker 3: often there are specific requests that people have because they're 664 00:34:36,886 --> 00:34:40,565 Speaker 3: used to a different procedure or a different process. I've 665 00:34:40,605 --> 00:34:43,926 Speaker 3: certainly looked after Swedish women in pregnancy, and I have 666 00:34:44,006 --> 00:34:45,966 Speaker 3: a German couple who come to see me at the 667 00:34:45,966 --> 00:34:48,685 Speaker 3: moment and they've had their first child in Germany, and 668 00:34:48,766 --> 00:34:51,645 Speaker 3: so they'll often come and say to me when we're 669 00:34:51,685 --> 00:34:54,926 Speaker 3: in Germany, they did this test, do you offer that test? 670 00:34:55,006 --> 00:34:57,926 Speaker 3: And you know when do I do this particular test 671 00:34:58,006 --> 00:35:00,805 Speaker 3: and sometimes bring the antinatal card from Germany and do 672 00:35:00,886 --> 00:35:03,405 Speaker 3: a comparison to make sure that you know the things 673 00:35:03,446 --> 00:35:06,085 Speaker 3: that they're used to are being offered here. I think 674 00:35:06,125 --> 00:35:09,605 Speaker 3: in the Nordic countries, where the public health system is 675 00:35:09,725 --> 00:35:13,046 Speaker 3: so well supported, it doesn't really make a lot of 676 00:35:13,046 --> 00:35:15,246 Speaker 3: sense to do anything but go through the public system. 677 00:35:15,326 --> 00:35:17,886 Speaker 3: But I guess also because a lot of healthcare is 678 00:35:17,886 --> 00:35:20,765 Speaker 3: state funded, you know, they may not offer quite as 679 00:35:20,846 --> 00:35:23,526 Speaker 3: many of the very expensive tests that we sort of 680 00:35:23,526 --> 00:35:28,326 Speaker 3: take for granted here like the NPT. Certainly you do find, 681 00:35:28,565 --> 00:35:31,565 Speaker 3: you know, say people come from a culture that's a 682 00:35:31,605 --> 00:35:34,526 Speaker 3: resource poor country or a non Western culture where things 683 00:35:34,565 --> 00:35:37,886 Speaker 3: are very very different, there can be specific requests of 684 00:35:37,966 --> 00:35:42,365 Speaker 3: things that you haven't really encountered before, and so we 685 00:35:42,446 --> 00:35:46,085 Speaker 3: try as absolutely hard as we can to help people, 686 00:35:46,366 --> 00:35:48,966 Speaker 3: you know, achieve the birth that they want and do 687 00:35:49,046 --> 00:35:51,406 Speaker 3: that in the most culturally sensitive way. So if we 688 00:35:51,526 --> 00:35:56,526 Speaker 3: need to make policy adjustments and procedure adjustments within the 689 00:35:56,565 --> 00:35:57,846 Speaker 3: realms of safety, we'll do that. 690 00:36:01,366 --> 00:36:03,605 Speaker 2: Diary of a Birth was hosted by me because Anu 691 00:36:03,685 --> 00:36:07,645 Speaker 2: loo Kit with expert input Bronwyn Devine and while we 692 00:36:07,725 --> 00:36:09,926 Speaker 2: have you here, we're on the hunt to share powerful 693 00:36:10,085 --> 00:36:15,245 Speaker 2: underrepresented stories from people of all cultures, backgrounds and abilities, 694 00:36:15,446 --> 00:36:18,765 Speaker 2: so please get in touch. This episode was produced by 695 00:36:18,806 --> 00:36:23,125 Speaker 2: Tina Mattalov and myself Cassania Lukitch, with audio production by 696 00:36:23,205 --> 00:36:24,006 Speaker 2: Leah Porges. 697 00:36:31,286 --> 00:36:34,406 Speaker 1: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. 698 00:36:34,526 --> 00:36:37,886 Speaker 2: We have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of 699 00:36:37,966 --> 00:36:41,446 Speaker 2: the Eora nation. We pay our respects to their elders 700 00:36:41,526 --> 00:36:45,406 Speaker 2: past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal 701 00:36:45,406 --> 00:36:47,125 Speaker 2: and Torres Raight Islander cultures,