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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: So many new things are happening. We're in a new studio.

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Speaker 1: We thought we could have our laptops, but we now

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Speaker 1: have got iPads.

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Speaker 2: I feel like a boomer. It took me so long

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Speaker 2: to set this iPad up.

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Speaker 1: I brought my own iPad to be shocked to hear.

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Speaker 3: I feel like we're three and on a plane. Don't

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Speaker 3: put Pepper Peka.

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Speaker 1: When I was off for a while, I was catching

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Speaker 1: up with you guys by watching the show on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: and I was looking at everybody's laptops and it looked

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Speaker 1: like you're in a meeting. There's something about it, really.

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Speaker 3: It's like when you're sitting and having dinner with someone

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Speaker 3: and someone picks up their phone strap the connection and.

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Speaker 1: It's very when you're actually behind the mic, I find

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Speaker 1: that my eye is always drawn, even though I don't.

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Speaker 1: It's like a safety I'm like some other hosts. I

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of notes. It's a safety thing,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. And it's like I even find that when

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Speaker 1: I've got my phone, I have to turn it upside down,

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Speaker 1: so my eye doesn't doesn't get trained.

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Speaker 3: So now what you can do is you can watch

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Speaker 3: your bluey on your iPad.

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Speaker 1: We watch a super fight and then I can take

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Speaker 1: a photo with my iPad out.

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Speaker 2: At a wedding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, welcome to MoMA. Me are out loud? What

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Speaker 3: women are actually talking about? On Wednesday, the eleventh of June,

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Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens, I'm Mere Friedman.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Vana filling in for Holly.

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Speaker 3: Today and on the show Today, the Project First and

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Speaker 3: now Q and A. Should we be mourning the loss

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Speaker 3: of the panel show and what will replace it? Plus

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Speaker 3: how did wife guys get such a bad rap? I'm

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Speaker 3: ready to fight you both on that and Sydney Sweeney's

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Speaker 3: bathwater and Bonnie Blue locking herself in a glass cage

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Speaker 3: empowerment or oppression with a price tag.

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Speaker 2: But first, and in case you missed it, Channel nine

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Speaker 2: journalist Lauren Tomasi was shot by a rubber bullet by

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Speaker 2: authorities while reporting on the protest happening in Los Angeles

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Speaker 2: against the immigration raids. This is what she said on

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Speaker 2: the event.

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Speaker 4: We were reporting on the Today Show all morning. The

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Speaker 4: situation on the ground in downtown LA. My cameraman, Jimmy

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Speaker 4: and I had started by that detention center in downtown

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Speaker 4: LA and there was you know, a few skirmishes here

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Speaker 4: and there, and a little bit of chaos moments as

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Speaker 4: we went throughout the morning. But it was about five

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Speaker 4: o'clock local time there were suddenly just thousands of protesters

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Speaker 4: on the streets of downtown LA, and we felt that

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Speaker 4: presence of the LAPD and law enforcement really ramp up.

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Speaker 4: Jimmy and I went live. We were doing a cross

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Speaker 4: into the program, and police started pushing their way up

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Speaker 4: the street. They'd begun firing tear gas canisters and those

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Speaker 4: rubber bullets, and we moved onto the sidewalk and really

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Speaker 4: tried to stay out of the way. What you saw

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Speaker 4: that report was at the end of that live cross

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Speaker 4: we'd moved off to the side of the road. We're

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Speaker 4: at the side of police. I had my back to

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Speaker 4: those LAPD offices. I was really focused on the camera

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Speaker 4: and you know, finishing that report telling what was happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I got hit. Jimmy scooped me up and we

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Speaker 4: made our way as quickly as possible. Yeah, a bit

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Speaker 4: of a shock.

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Speaker 2: Since then, three more journalists have been reported being injured

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Speaker 2: by authorities. An ABC cameraman was injured while filming a

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Speaker 2: group of protesters when police opened fire with less than

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Speaker 2: lethal rounds. He was hit in the chest, but not

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Speaker 2: seriously injured as he was wearing a bulletproof vest. Another

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Speaker 2: ABC journalist, Lauren Day, was injured via tear gas, and

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Speaker 2: a British journalist, Nick Stern, needed an emergency surgery after

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Speaker 2: being hit with a plastic bullet. So this video has

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Speaker 2: gone absolutely viral. I saw it all over my TikTok

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Speaker 2: and I think I watched it about ten times. Jesse,

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Speaker 2: why are these protests actually happening?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that for a lot of people that

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Speaker 3: got the protests on their radar right because LA at

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Speaker 3: the moment, there are a number of protests because of

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Speaker 3: this bill that Trump has pushed and we talked about

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Speaker 3: it on the show last week. But basically Trump wants

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Speaker 3: three thousand arrests nationally a day for immigrants like he

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Speaker 3: sees them as illegal immigrants. So it's actually said three thousand,

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Speaker 3: so it's like immigration raids in LA. The people that

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Speaker 3: have gone to protest are basically saying we don't agree

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Speaker 3: with this.

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Speaker 1: So you may have been hearing about ICE raids, which

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Speaker 1: stands for Immigration Customs Enforcement. So that's the body like

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Speaker 1: border security here and the Australian Federal Police that looks

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Speaker 1: after border security and immigration, and so anyone that is

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Speaker 1: seen to be breaching the immigration laws in the US.

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Speaker 1: And there are many, many thousands of people there on

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Speaker 1: that basis, they're basically rounding them up and deporting them.

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Speaker 1: And there were protests in LA. There are protests that

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Speaker 1: have now spread all over the US. And the bigger

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Speaker 1: picture there is that LA is probably the most democratic state,

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Speaker 1: the most left leaning state in America. Its governor is

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Speaker 1: a guy called Gavin Newsom. That's the equivalent of the

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Speaker 1: premiere of a state in Australia. And Trump hates him.

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Speaker 1: He's a potential future Democratic candidate for president. And so

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Speaker 1: it's now just become this thing where Trump is sending

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Speaker 1: in the National Guards, sending in the Marines, making this

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Speaker 1: big show of force because he loves a spectacle. As

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Speaker 1: we're recording this news is breaking that curfew has been

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Speaker 1: imposed on downtown LA and President Trump has defended deploying

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Speaker 1: the military and called the protesters animals and a foreign enemy.

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Speaker 3: Which is the first time in sixty years that a

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Speaker 3: president because there's particular powers that a president has that

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Speaker 3: they very rarely use, like similar to Australia. Actually there

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Speaker 3: are state laws and things within the remit of a

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Speaker 3: governor and then there are things that a president can

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Speaker 3: do but often don't because they're kind of just trusting.

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Speaker 3: It happened during COVID. It was really complicated in the

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Speaker 3: US that a governor had the rules and it was

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Speaker 3: like there was fifty different countries and same in Australia's.

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Speaker 3: And so Trump has gone, I am sending in the

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Speaker 3: National Guard. Why is that such a big deal? Because

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Speaker 3: it escalates and a lot of people are saying they

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Speaker 3: are trained. Like the reason you would send in a

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Speaker 3: national guard is if there was life a war, or

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Speaker 3: if there was some kind of unrest, civil unrest or

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Speaker 3: serious uprising, which Newsom says, this doesn't warrant that at

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Speaker 3: all is going to escalate. And that's why this video

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Speaker 3: in that context is so critical because it does look

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Speaker 3: like it's escalating and that's something we saw on camera.

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Speaker 3: Even if she wasn't the Australian reporter wasn't a reporter,

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Speaker 3: if she was a civilian who was there and demonstrating

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Speaker 3: peacefully on the sidewalk. On the sidewalk, they still shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be shot with a rubber bullet like that. I think

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Speaker 3: is just a taste.

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Speaker 1: Of She's clearly media exactly right.

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Speaker 3: That's a taste of what's happening and not what's meant

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Speaker 3: to happen in a civil democracy.

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Speaker 1: In case you missed it, two big TV panel shows

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Speaker 1: were acts this week. Iconic ones The Project and also

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Speaker 1: Q and A. Both were acted because their audiences had

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Speaker 1: shrunk to the point of being unsustainable to keep making them.

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Speaker 1: Channel ten officially announced the cancelation of The Project after

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Speaker 1: a sixteen year run. One episode is going to air

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Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks. June twenty seven, and the

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Speaker 1: ABC this morning announced that it was acting Q and A,

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Speaker 1: which was its flagship panel debate program that has been

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Speaker 1: around for nearly seventeen years now. Sarah Harris and or

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Speaker 1: laid Ali will be leaving Network ten, and there are

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Speaker 1: dozens of people behind the scenes on both shows who

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Speaker 1: will be either made redundant or be redeployed. It's never

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Speaker 1: a good day when people lose their jobs in any industry.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to why we think people stop

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Speaker 1: watching these shows. Jesse, it's close to home. You're a

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Speaker 1: regular panelist on the project. You were there the day

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Speaker 1: before it was acted. Yeah, coincidence.

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Speaker 3: I know, it's exactly right. They saw me and they

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Speaker 3: went this, good.

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Speaker 1: God, how are you doing. It's not it's awful.

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Speaker 3: It's really sad. It's sad for a few reasons. I'm

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Speaker 3: sad for my friends who are losing their jobs. I'm

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Speaker 3: sad for myself because I really.

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Speaker 5: Liked that job.

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Speaker 3: And I'm sad because it was a staple of Australian television.

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Speaker 3: Another feeling I'm having. I just need a very quick rant.

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Speaker 1: Please.

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Speaker 3: For months, if not years, certain publications and certain commentators

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Speaker 3: and individuals have gleefully reported on the ratings of the project.

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Speaker 3: They have been it's been like every time there's a

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Speaker 3: dip or they're kind of like there are rumors of acting.

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Speaker 3: They have just reported and reported and had this strange

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Speaker 3: hatred of the show that seems totally unfounded. You don't

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Speaker 3: have to love it, But I don't know why they

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Speaker 3: were cheering so much for it to be axed.

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Speaker 1: It's weird when the media cheers for shows to be.

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Speaker 3: Axed, especially Australian made shows that employ Australians who are

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Speaker 3: like creating a show for view, Like it's just a

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Speaker 3: very very strange vibe, which I know the media does sometimes.

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Speaker 3: But what's really irked me is that since it's been axed,

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Speaker 3: those same people and those same publications are writing like

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Speaker 3: these eulogies of just like, guys, this is a really

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Speaker 3: sad day for Australian media.

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Speaker 5: And in fact, you know.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people got their start on the project

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Speaker 3: and for writers' rooms it's really important and the producers

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Speaker 3: going to lose it and I'm like, you weren't helping

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Speaker 3: with your fist in the air, going acts some acts,

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Speaker 3: some acts them.

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Speaker 1: Like that's kind of what the media does though, Like

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Speaker 1: I remember that it used to happen a lot when

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Speaker 1: the leaders of political parties were changing all the time.

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Speaker 1: It was like they were gunning for it because it's

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Speaker 1: a story, it's something to write about, it's something to

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Speaker 1: talk about. But then it actually happens and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's when everyone has their nostalgia, so they're just meeting

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Speaker 1: the audience need and not that not that it was

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Speaker 1: canceled because the media was writing about it, but I've

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Speaker 1: been thinking a lot about it, and you know, you

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Speaker 1: and I, Jesse, you have both done the project, you

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Speaker 1: a lot more than me. I did it a long

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Speaker 1: time ago, and before that, I did the panel and

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Speaker 1: then I did Q and A a few times, and

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Speaker 1: you've done Q and A. I used to love watching

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Speaker 1: those shows, but I don't watch either of them anymore,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's because for me, podcasts have replaced

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Speaker 1: panel shows. Podcasts and social media have completely disrupted the

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Speaker 1: panel show format.

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Speaker 3: For me, it's more social media. There is a sense

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Speaker 3: now I hear a lot of people say this that

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Speaker 3: if the news is important, not urgent enough, it will

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Speaker 3: find me. That didn't used to be possible. You would

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Speaker 3: have to opt in, whether it was opening a newspaper

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Speaker 3: or appointment viewing, whereas now you know. We did a

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Speaker 3: subscriber episode yesterday with Clare Murphy and Holly talking about

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Speaker 3: the project being axed, and Claire was saying she does

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Speaker 3: consume the project, but it's all through social media, and

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Speaker 3: of course that's not monetized. There aren't ad dollars in

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Speaker 3: watching a small clip on social media, and that's kind

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Speaker 3: of meant that we don't feel any urgency or fomo.

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Speaker 5: It's like the opposite. Now there is no phomo for did.

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Speaker 1: You ever watch those shows?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 2: But like exactly what cler Murphy're saying. So what I

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Speaker 2: would do is like I would see clips on TikTok

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Speaker 2: and Q and A. If I saw a clip on

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Speaker 2: TikTok and make me feel really, really smart, So I

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Speaker 2: tell people that, yeah, I watched Q and A, when

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Speaker 2: really I did it.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, that's but you did watch it, but

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Speaker 1: you watched it on a clip of it on social media.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So that's why I was so surprising because I always

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Speaker 2: thought that young people did watch Q and A because

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Speaker 2: we all wanted to be smart and with the project

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Speaker 2: because it had that like underlining sense of humor with

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Speaker 2: new it was easy to understand and digest. But I

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Speaker 2: think we were all just watching clips and just telling

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Speaker 2: people that we were actually watching the full show.

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Speaker 5: So am I have a question for you?

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Speaker 3: Because the project, in particular, you were who they were

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Speaker 3: trying to get right. They were always news done differently.

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Speaker 3: They were trying to appeal to a younger audience, which

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Speaker 3: worked sixteen seventeen years ago, but then their younger audiences

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Speaker 3: moved to a different medium and they failed to capture them.

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Speaker 1: But it's not just the younger audiences that moved to

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Speaker 1: a different medium. We all did because back then it

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Speaker 1: was revolutionary to have unscripted conversation about current events and

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Speaker 1: pop culture and politics and.

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Speaker 3: To merge light and shade. Yeah, the project I think

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Speaker 3: pioneered and now has infiltrated podcasting. But is there any

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Speaker 3: format that's getting you back to free to air television?

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Speaker 2: Sampang Tonight really yes, I love Sampang Tonight. I just

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Speaker 2: find it's so much fun and so funny, and he's

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Speaker 2: really really funny. So I think I'm driven by the

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Speaker 2: actual personalities of the shows, right, and I find that

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Speaker 2: really interesting. But I think with free to air TV,

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Speaker 2: it's the timing, like you have to watch it at

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Speaker 2: that time and that's not my scrolling time, Like that's

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Speaker 2: not my downtime. My downtime is like nine thirty PM

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Speaker 2: in bed, And.

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Speaker 1: The change of viewing exactly appointment viewing. You can only

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Speaker 1: have around sort of big events like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: awards shows or the finale of Master Chef or Maths,

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Speaker 1: you feel.

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Speaker 2: Like you've got so if you miss it, Whereas like

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Speaker 2: with shows that happen every week. You don't really get

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Speaker 2: that Fomo.

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Speaker 3: We touched on this in yesterday's subscriber episode, but I

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Speaker 3: think it's worth pausing on what's lost, because what is

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Speaker 3: lost is rigor a certain code of ethics that these

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Speaker 3: programs adhere to, whether it's fact checkers, whether it's lawyers,

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Speaker 3: like what goes to air on the project went through

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Speaker 3: a lot of hands, and now if news is being

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Speaker 3: shared through the opinion of us individuals, well, I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: about social media even more so. I mean, we have

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Speaker 3: a team and you know, and we are bound by

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Speaker 3: certain ethics and we'll get in trouble if we breach them.

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Speaker 3: Whereas if you're on social media and you're kind of

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Speaker 3: just yelling into your.

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Speaker 2: Phone and you're spitting a pinion like it's fat.

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Speaker 3: Yes exactly. I mean that's what's replacing it.

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Speaker 1: That's I also have to say, as someone who's been

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Speaker 1: running a media company for almost the same amount of

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Speaker 1: time as those two shows, you got to evolve, Like

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Speaker 1: if Mum and mea was still a website, we would

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Speaker 1: have been probably disrupted and canceled a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: We became podcasts, and now we're becoming vodcasts and We're

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Speaker 1: doing new and different things all the time, and I

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Speaker 1: think that the one thing that's certain in media is

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Speaker 1: that you're going to be disrupted, and that's why you

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Speaker 1: do always have to evolve. And if you wait until

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Speaker 1: you start losing audience, it's too late to evolve. You've

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Speaker 1: actually got to evolve when things are going really well.

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Speaker 2: So was it surprising to you.

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Speaker 1: No, because I thought, and I don't want to sound

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Speaker 1: like a dick going h like, I'm a basic bitch,

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Speaker 1: and I stopped watching those shows because they felt so

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Speaker 1: of their time and even ahead of their time when

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Speaker 1: they launched, but then they stayed the same. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you think of the world sixteen seventeen years ago,

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Speaker 1: literally pre podcasts and pre social media, you can't then

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Speaker 1: be doing the same format. And so I'm sad that

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Speaker 1: they've been canceled. There's some great people working on those shows,

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Speaker 1: but I think that you got to keep changing. It's exhausting,

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Speaker 1: but I mean that's the reality of working in media today.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately or fortunately.

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Speaker 3: I talked about how I felt about this in more

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Speaker 3: depth on yesterday's subscriber episode, and again shout out to

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Speaker 3: everyone who lost their jobs.

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Speaker 5: That's just a shitty day.

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Speaker 3: But you can find that subscriber episode via the link

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Speaker 3: in our show notes in case you missed it. A

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Speaker 3: judge has thrown out Justin Baldonie's four hundred million that's

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Speaker 3: US dollars defamation suit against Blake Lively.

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Speaker 1: This good day for Blake Lively.

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Speaker 3: A good day for Blake Lively. Indeed, this pertains to

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Speaker 3: Baldoni accusing Blake Lively and her husband Ryan Reynolds, as

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Speaker 3: well as their publicist and also The New York Times

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Speaker 3: of basically orchestrating a the smear campaign against him and

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Speaker 3: trying to destroy his career. Let's take a few steps backwards,

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Speaker 3: because this all started with Blake Lively's lawsuit against Baldoni

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Speaker 3: and his production company, and this is yet to be

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Speaker 3: tried in a court of law. That case is still

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Speaker 3: going ahead, and this surprised everyone at the time. Baldonian

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Speaker 3: his team then launched this countersuit and I remember us

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Speaker 3: talking about how bizarre the figure was. It just seemed

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Speaker 3: plucked out of thin air to have more than it's

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Speaker 3: more than six hundred million Australian dollars of him talking

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Speaker 3: about sort of damage to his reputation and career, and

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Speaker 3: a judge found that there wasn't enough proof of extortion

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Speaker 3: or defamation. In fact, the judge said these alleged wrongful

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Speaker 3: threats sounded more like legal negotiations. So when Blake Lively's

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Speaker 3: team pushed back, that was actually just how a court

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Speaker 3: case goes. Because remember we talked a little while ago

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Speaker 3: about the Taylor Swift texts, and there was an allegation

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Speaker 3: it never got admitted into court that Blake Lively's team

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Speaker 3: said to Taylor Swift, show your support or we're going

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Speaker 3: to release all that text messages. He was basically talking

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Speaker 3: about that kind of stuff which has been dismissed. Lively's

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Speaker 3: team has called this a total victory and they await

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Speaker 3: their day in court, which is going to be in

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Speaker 3: March twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: So her suit against him is still going ahead stands,

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Speaker 1: but what's been dismissed is his countersuit against her.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you were Blake Lively, I think you'd be

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Speaker 3: feeling pretty vindicated today.

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Speaker 1: Out Loud is in a moment what is a wife

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Speaker 1: guy and how has this seemingly lovely term become an insult.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about the term wife guy and

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Speaker 1: how it's become a bit of an insult. Firstly, in

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Speaker 1: case you're not familiar with the term, a wife guy

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Speaker 1: is essentially someone whose personality is formed by his role

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Speaker 1: as a husband.

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Speaker 3: His identity is like, yeah, about he's married to.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and about being married, and about his wife, and

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Speaker 1: just about the fact that she is his wife. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of his personality. So it first came to prominence

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Speaker 1: around the time that Me Too was happening, when there

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Speaker 1: was this all this talk about shitty men, and there

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Speaker 1: were these men who were like, I'm not shitty. I

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Speaker 1: love my wife. And there was a guy in particularly

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Speaker 1: guy called Robbie Tripp who had a wife who was

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Speaker 1: sort of curvy, and he's like, I love my curvy wife,

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Speaker 1: and he started posting this content about his curvy wife

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Speaker 1: as if he was some kind of a hero. It's

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Speaker 1: actually a woman who was a woman. And when I

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Speaker 1: went back and looked at this, she was not even curvy.

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Speaker 1: She's probably a size ten anyway. Some of the more

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Speaker 1: high profile examples of wife guys would be Prince Harry

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Speaker 1: Asap Rocky, who is the partner of Real Sap.

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Speaker 3: I was going to let no, we're leaving that in editors,

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Speaker 3: we are not not editing that out Sorry a sap rocky.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's one of those things that I don't say

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Speaker 1: out loud a lot a dollars, sorry a p rocky

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Speaker 1: sat Nick Jonas is pronounced phonetically, try and move on.

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Speaker 1: Ryan Reynolds, John Legend, husband of Christy Tek and Ryan Reynolds,

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Speaker 1: of course, husband of like lovely Barack Obama, husband of

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Speaker 1: Michelle Travis Kelcey, partner of Taylor Swift. And David Beckham,

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Speaker 1: husband of Posh. So all of those men are not

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Speaker 1: only not emasculated by their successful partners. Often their partners

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Speaker 1: are more successful in high profile than they are, but

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Speaker 1: they actually rejoice in it, right, So they seem to

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Speaker 1: be delighted by the fact that they are married to

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Speaker 1: these exceptional women. And this is bad, Well, it can

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Speaker 1: become bad, And this I'm going to give you an

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Speaker 1: example of how it's become bad. The patron saint of

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Speaker 1: ye guys in its pejorative form would probably be Brooklyn Beckham,

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Speaker 1: who has dozens of tattoos of his wife, Nicola Peltz

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Speaker 1: Beckham all over his body, and his whole personality is

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Speaker 1: like eighty percent being married and twenty percent hot sauce. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: No, that's very true.

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Speaker 1: So once U put a time, these guys would have

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Speaker 1: been called pussy whipped. Now sometimes they're called cucks. But

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Speaker 1: it has become a bit of a If you look

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Speaker 1: at the Brooklyn Beckham example, he's such a wife guy,

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Speaker 1: it means that their whole personality is really just about

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Speaker 1: being married. And there was a piece that you shared

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Speaker 1: with us from The Atlantic this week written by a

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Speaker 1: wife guy who was protesting that he's meant to feel

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Speaker 1: embarrassed about being a wife guy and how he gets

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Speaker 1: teased about it. Mate.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a really nice piece because I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this man really likes his wife. That's so nice. And

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize that it could be the opposite. And

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Speaker 2: I feel like the latest example I heard of what

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Speaker 2: I would assume as a wife guy is Walton Goggins

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Speaker 2: because of all the rumors that he had allegedly cheated

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Speaker 2: on his wife with his co star, and everyone thought

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00:20:20,222 --> 00:20:22,862
Speaker 2: that happened because all of his comments on his wife's

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Speaker 2: Instagram was so full of I love you so much.

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Speaker 2: You're the best thing that ever happened to me. You're

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Speaker 2: my ocean, my river, my lake.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a red flat.

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Speaker 2: So I thought wife guy now is like if a

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Speaker 2: man shows too much love towards his wife publicly, he's

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Speaker 2: secretly cheating.

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Speaker 3: We are being so insincere if we think that a

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Speaker 3: wife guy is just a man who loves his wife.

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Speaker 5: That is not what a wife guy means.

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Speaker 3: When I hear that, it conjures up an image of

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Speaker 3: someone I follow on Instagram. Right, this is not a

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Speaker 3: famous person. This is an acquaintance. And he is a

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00:20:52,942 --> 00:20:56,021
Speaker 3: wife guy. And what he does is he shares so

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00:20:56,222 --> 00:20:59,782
Speaker 3: many beautiful pictures of his wife and she is maybe

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00:20:59,782 --> 00:21:01,542
Speaker 3: she's walking around in like a jumper but like no

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00:21:01,621 --> 00:21:03,941
Speaker 3: pants on, like a little underpants, and she looks really sexy.

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Speaker 2: So what did he do?

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Speaker 5: Exactly exactly right?

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00:21:06,141 --> 00:21:06,782
Speaker 1: How did they do wrong?

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Speaker 5: That's what I'm like, what have you done?

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Speaker 3: And she's walking around like on the beach and just

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Speaker 3: he just loves taking photos and talking about how beautiful

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Speaker 3: she is, right, And I'm just like, oh, Madams mcmapy,

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Speaker 3: men like you before, and you're cheating on it. I

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Speaker 3: have no EVI you think he's cheating it, and I

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00:21:20,901 --> 00:21:21,901
Speaker 3: do think he's cheating on it.

435
00:21:22,061 --> 00:21:23,942
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, just it seems like he's sort

436
00:21:23,982 --> 00:21:27,662
Speaker 1: of objectifying her as a way to make himself look better.

437
00:21:27,742 --> 00:21:30,582
Speaker 1: Like the subtext is, look what I.

438
00:21:30,581 --> 00:21:32,861
Speaker 5: Got, Look what I got? Who's it for?

439
00:21:33,222 --> 00:21:35,022
Speaker 3: Right? There is something about and I found this with

440
00:21:35,061 --> 00:21:37,262
Speaker 3: the Atlantic piece. I'm like, it's so lovely that you

441
00:21:37,302 --> 00:21:40,581
Speaker 3: love your wife. I don't care that much and I don't.

442
00:21:40,982 --> 00:21:43,702
Speaker 3: It's like when someone wants to thrust onto you their

443
00:21:43,702 --> 00:21:46,102
Speaker 3: relationship and it's like, I don't feel it because I'm

444
00:21:46,141 --> 00:21:48,021
Speaker 3: not in it. So it's more like a thing for

445
00:21:48,061 --> 00:21:49,782
Speaker 3: you to discuss and tell each other how much you

446
00:21:49,821 --> 00:21:54,502
Speaker 3: love each other. But if someone is performing it on Instagram,

447
00:21:54,661 --> 00:21:57,782
Speaker 3: the reason it smells in authentic is because we have

448
00:21:57,901 --> 00:22:00,821
Speaker 3: data points that support that, Like there are so many

449
00:22:00,861 --> 00:22:04,061
Speaker 3: examples of people who go full I love my wife,

450
00:22:04,141 --> 00:22:06,782
Speaker 3: the post that I love my baby. Remember, like Adam

451
00:22:06,861 --> 00:22:09,542
Speaker 3: Levine was a mad wife guy and then boom cheating

452
00:22:09,702 --> 00:22:12,381
Speaker 3: on her with like text messages. There are so many

453
00:22:12,422 --> 00:22:15,181
Speaker 3: examples of men like that. We're using evidence to don't

454
00:22:15,182 --> 00:22:15,502
Speaker 3: you just.

455
00:22:15,502 --> 00:22:18,061
Speaker 1: Mean that men who love their wife also sometimes cheat

456
00:22:18,061 --> 00:22:18,702
Speaker 1: on their wife?

457
00:22:18,861 --> 00:22:23,821
Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's a particular kind of performance. It's

458
00:22:23,821 --> 00:22:26,221
Speaker 3: a particular kind of performance that the men that I

459
00:22:26,381 --> 00:22:29,741
Speaker 3: know in my own relationships, the men who put me

460
00:22:29,782 --> 00:22:32,502
Speaker 3: on Instagram the quickest were the ones who also ghosted

461
00:22:32,542 --> 00:22:35,422
Speaker 3: me the fastest. Well do you feel that to be true?

462
00:22:35,422 --> 00:22:37,342
Speaker 3: And as our professional data.

463
00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:40,662
Speaker 2: I think all men should be wife guys because as

464
00:22:40,702 --> 00:22:43,821
Speaker 2: a single woman, the amount of time I've spent scrolling

465
00:22:43,821 --> 00:22:46,742
Speaker 2: on men's instagrams before I find out they've been married

466
00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:50,101
Speaker 2: for nine years is ridiculous. Because there's also no such

467
00:22:50,182 --> 00:22:51,862
Speaker 2: thing as husband girls, right.

468
00:22:51,702 --> 00:22:54,142
Speaker 1: Because everyone I know, I know them.

469
00:22:54,262 --> 00:22:56,782
Speaker 2: Everyone is a husband girl though, and it's not even

470
00:22:56,782 --> 00:22:59,782
Speaker 2: a term, because that's just every woman in a relationship

471
00:22:59,821 --> 00:23:02,061
Speaker 2: who posts about her life because a husband or a

472
00:23:02,061 --> 00:23:05,381
Speaker 2: partner will automatically be in there. Everyone is a husband.

473
00:23:05,702 --> 00:23:08,302
Speaker 2: But then you go on a woman's Instagram and you

474
00:23:08,302 --> 00:23:11,422
Speaker 2: can pinpost on Instagram. I guarantee you the first three

475
00:23:11,462 --> 00:23:14,542
Speaker 2: posts will be a pin of her wedding day, her engagement,

476
00:23:14,782 --> 00:23:16,461
Speaker 2: the last trip they took to Buslona.

477
00:23:17,182 --> 00:23:20,302
Speaker 1: That's about her. That's here's me in my wedding dress,

478
00:23:20,621 --> 00:23:23,262
Speaker 1: and also here's me on my trip to Barcelona in

479
00:23:23,262 --> 00:23:25,782
Speaker 1: a bikini and he just happens to be there. So

480
00:23:25,861 --> 00:23:29,422
Speaker 1: what's the term for a woman I've never thought about

481
00:23:29,422 --> 00:23:31,621
Speaker 1: it before in terms of giving it a name. But

482
00:23:31,661 --> 00:23:33,461
Speaker 1: I can think of two people I know who do

483
00:23:33,542 --> 00:23:39,382
Speaker 1: exactly this, their husband girls, and they post hot shots

484
00:23:39,422 --> 00:23:43,302
Speaker 1: of their husbands all the time and talk about their

485
00:23:43,422 --> 00:23:48,782
Speaker 1: husbands in a way that's I don't want to say objectifying, but.

486
00:23:48,821 --> 00:23:52,381
Speaker 5: That subversive, doesn't it It feels.

487
00:23:52,022 --> 00:23:53,822
Speaker 1: Like, oh no to me, just feels like a flex,

488
00:23:54,141 --> 00:23:56,022
Speaker 1: the same kind of flex as a husband guy.

489
00:23:56,222 --> 00:23:57,621
Speaker 2: So are they both hot husbands?

490
00:23:57,901 --> 00:23:58,061
Speaker 4: Yeah?

491
00:23:58,061 --> 00:24:00,582
Speaker 2: Because I think that's different to being a husband girl.

492
00:24:00,621 --> 00:24:03,302
Speaker 2: I think if you're posting your hot husband, everyone should

493
00:24:03,302 --> 00:24:05,022
Speaker 2: be doing that because you're doing that for the girls.

494
00:24:05,022 --> 00:24:07,782
Speaker 2: You're not doing that to show that you're doing something.

495
00:24:07,581 --> 00:24:09,222
Speaker 1: Well, you mean, like as a public service.

496
00:24:09,341 --> 00:24:12,022
Speaker 2: I think what a husband's girl is more like all

497
00:24:12,061 --> 00:24:14,861
Speaker 2: the photos on the Instagram stories will be like the

498
00:24:14,982 --> 00:24:17,022
Speaker 2: husband with the kids and the husband doing that. And

499
00:24:17,061 --> 00:24:19,262
Speaker 2: if you notice, like even when women go on holidays

500
00:24:19,262 --> 00:24:21,861
Speaker 2: with families, all the photos are husbands and kids because

501
00:24:21,861 --> 00:24:23,262
Speaker 2: she's the one taking the photos.

502
00:24:23,782 --> 00:24:27,261
Speaker 3: What's implicit in this, like especially the wife guy terminology,

503
00:24:27,302 --> 00:24:30,702
Speaker 3: what's implicit is that in a heterosexual relationship, men should

504
00:24:30,702 --> 00:24:33,022
Speaker 3: have the upper hand. Like that's how culturally we understand

505
00:24:33,022 --> 00:24:35,222
Speaker 3: it is that men should have the power. So then

506
00:24:35,341 --> 00:24:38,381
Speaker 3: when it looks like a man is worshiping a woman,

507
00:24:38,742 --> 00:24:39,422
Speaker 3: we're like, what.

508
00:24:39,502 --> 00:24:40,341
Speaker 5: Is going on here?

509
00:24:40,341 --> 00:24:42,302
Speaker 3: And like we get a magnifying glass out and try

510
00:24:42,302 --> 00:24:46,262
Speaker 3: and understand it. We see them as a cock or emasculated,

511
00:24:46,581 --> 00:24:50,702
Speaker 3: or as somehow betraying the social order. Like that's why

512
00:24:50,742 --> 00:24:53,941
Speaker 3: these terms in and of themselves are pretty sexist. But

513
00:24:54,022 --> 00:24:56,421
Speaker 3: I do think that there's something to a type of

514
00:24:56,542 --> 00:25:00,741
Speaker 3: man who is performing his hetero relationship in order to

515
00:25:00,901 --> 00:25:04,262
Speaker 3: just get attention and applause from other people, from everyone

516
00:25:04,302 --> 00:25:05,221
Speaker 3: except his wife.

517
00:25:05,422 --> 00:25:05,742
Speaker 6: Yeah.

518
00:25:05,782 --> 00:25:08,661
Speaker 1: I mean, we're all performing our personalities on social media, right,

519
00:25:08,982 --> 00:25:12,141
Speaker 1: whether you got a profile or not. Everybody's deciding what

520
00:25:12,222 --> 00:25:15,101
Speaker 1: they put out there. And for some people it's their

521
00:25:15,182 --> 00:25:17,662
Speaker 1: kids that are their identity. For some people it's their

522
00:25:17,661 --> 00:25:20,022
Speaker 1: work that's their identity. For some people it's their face

523
00:25:20,141 --> 00:25:22,861
Speaker 1: or their body, that their ass that's their identity. But

524
00:25:22,982 --> 00:25:25,901
Speaker 1: for some women it's their husbands, and for some men

525
00:25:26,022 --> 00:25:28,661
Speaker 1: it's their wives. And I think that the term wife

526
00:25:28,661 --> 00:25:31,942
Speaker 1: guy is interesting because, as you say, it is kind

527
00:25:31,982 --> 00:25:35,981
Speaker 1: of subversive, because we can think of a million examples

528
00:25:36,022 --> 00:25:38,782
Speaker 1: of men who are really emasculated by their partners, who

529
00:25:38,782 --> 00:25:43,302
Speaker 1: are beautiful, successful, or just you know, don't want to

530
00:25:43,422 --> 00:25:45,542
Speaker 1: talk about how much they love their partners because they'll

531
00:25:45,581 --> 00:25:48,142
Speaker 1: be seen as soft. So I think it stands out.

532
00:25:48,462 --> 00:25:50,101
Speaker 2: What I also want to talk about is the different

533
00:25:50,182 --> 00:25:54,141
Speaker 2: levels of embarrassments between the wife guy and the husband girl.

534
00:25:54,422 --> 00:25:57,061
Speaker 2: Because in the Atlantic piece, the wife guy he's embarrassed

535
00:25:57,061 --> 00:25:58,661
Speaker 2: because his friends take the piss out of him for

536
00:25:58,702 --> 00:26:01,702
Speaker 2: loving his wife so much. Whereas with my friends who

537
00:26:01,702 --> 00:26:04,302
Speaker 2: are like posting about their partners all the time, the

538
00:26:04,302 --> 00:26:07,382
Speaker 2: embarrassment comes when they break up and they realize they

539
00:26:07,381 --> 00:26:10,702
Speaker 2: have to archive a shitload more of Pope then their partner.

540
00:26:11,381 --> 00:26:13,662
Speaker 3: So true, and actually I'm thinking about it. A wife

541
00:26:13,742 --> 00:26:16,381
Speaker 3: guy posts and as this guy said, like his friends

542
00:26:16,422 --> 00:26:18,141
Speaker 3: are kind of rolling their eyes. I've seen it with

543
00:26:18,182 --> 00:26:20,742
Speaker 3: male friends and they kind of go, I'll look at you,

544
00:26:20,821 --> 00:26:23,222
Speaker 3: old ball and chain or like all of those revolting

545
00:26:23,341 --> 00:26:26,302
Speaker 3: like ridiculous terms. Whereas if I were to post a

546
00:26:26,341 --> 00:26:28,302
Speaker 3: picture of Lucra and I and do some kind of

547
00:26:28,581 --> 00:26:31,342
Speaker 3: Academy Award acceptance speech for how much I love him,

548
00:26:31,782 --> 00:26:32,381
Speaker 3: the fire.

549
00:26:32,182 --> 00:26:34,262
Speaker 5: Emojis I would give from my gap, yeah, they.

550
00:26:34,182 --> 00:26:38,342
Speaker 3: Would be there, outbeat goals, love hearts, love you guys.

551
00:26:38,542 --> 00:26:42,581
Speaker 3: They have you would comment, Mum and Dad would comment

552
00:26:42,702 --> 00:26:45,462
Speaker 3: it would reshare and be like couple goals and the

553
00:26:45,661 --> 00:26:47,381
Speaker 3: encouragement would be beautiful.

554
00:26:48,262 --> 00:26:51,141
Speaker 1: After the break, one of Hollywood's rising stars is selling

555
00:26:51,182 --> 00:26:53,862
Speaker 1: her bathwater, and one of the most famous only fan

556
00:26:53,982 --> 00:26:56,702
Speaker 1: stars has said that she wants to do a repulsive

557
00:26:56,782 --> 00:26:58,502
Speaker 1: sex stunt. What the hell is going on?

558
00:26:59,381 --> 00:27:02,702
Speaker 3: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of MUMMYA

559
00:27:02,742 --> 00:27:06,302
Speaker 3: out Loud just for MUMMYA subscribers. Follow the link in

560
00:27:06,341 --> 00:27:08,342
Speaker 3: the show notes to get your daily dose of out

561
00:27:08,341 --> 00:27:14,622
Speaker 3: Loud and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

562
00:27:16,101 --> 00:27:19,101
Speaker 3: I'm uncomfortable about a few stories this week that I

563
00:27:19,141 --> 00:27:21,902
Speaker 3: think exists on the same continuum, and I want both

564
00:27:21,901 --> 00:27:24,502
Speaker 3: of your help in working out what to think. Right.

565
00:27:25,381 --> 00:27:27,742
Speaker 3: We're going to start with Sydney Sweeney. She's twenty seven

566
00:27:27,821 --> 00:27:31,502
Speaker 3: years old. You might know her from Euphoria the White Lotus.

567
00:27:31,621 --> 00:27:34,022
Speaker 3: She was in that any One but You movie with

568
00:27:34,141 --> 00:27:35,782
Speaker 3: the handsome man, Big Star Big.

569
00:27:36,782 --> 00:27:37,902
Speaker 5: I have a soft spot for her.

570
00:27:38,061 --> 00:27:40,022
Speaker 3: She was great in The Handmaid's Tale. Remember that that

571
00:27:40,141 --> 00:27:41,701
Speaker 3: was like she remembered that. Yeah, she was in one

572
00:27:41,702 --> 00:27:44,782
Speaker 3: of the early seasons. She was great anyway, over the weekend,

573
00:27:45,302 --> 00:27:50,222
Speaker 3: Sweeney's limited edition bath soap went live online Go bust

574
00:27:50,302 --> 00:27:53,821
Speaker 3: e commerce sounds good exactly, which was created with her

575
00:27:53,942 --> 00:27:58,101
Speaker 3: very own bathwater. Now it was created in collaboration with

576
00:27:58,462 --> 00:28:03,542
Speaker 3: men's hygiene brand Doctor Squatch, which is designed to encourage

577
00:28:03,542 --> 00:28:04,942
Speaker 3: men to wash, which.

578
00:28:04,702 --> 00:28:05,582
Speaker 5: Is a noble pursuit.

579
00:28:05,621 --> 00:28:06,101
Speaker 1: I think it is.

580
00:28:07,022 --> 00:28:07,981
Speaker 2: We need Doctor Squash.

581
00:28:09,182 --> 00:28:11,901
Speaker 3: So here's just a little taste of the ad.

582
00:28:12,462 --> 00:28:15,381
Speaker 7: Hello, you dirty little boys, are you interested in my

583
00:28:15,502 --> 00:28:20,542
Speaker 7: body watch? Well you can't have it because this isn't

584
00:28:20,581 --> 00:28:22,462
Speaker 7: from boys, it's from men.

585
00:28:22,621 --> 00:28:22,901
Speaker 4: All right.

586
00:28:22,942 --> 00:28:24,141
Speaker 5: Any questions about.

587
00:28:23,901 --> 00:28:25,901
Speaker 1: Can you For those who are just listening, can you

588
00:28:25,942 --> 00:28:27,421
Speaker 1: explain what the ad looked like?

589
00:28:27,581 --> 00:28:27,861
Speaker 5: Yes?

590
00:28:27,982 --> 00:28:31,702
Speaker 3: So the ad is beautiful Sidney Sweeney laying in a bathtub,

591
00:28:32,101 --> 00:28:33,902
Speaker 3: And as the story goes, she says she was laying

592
00:28:33,901 --> 00:28:36,421
Speaker 3: in the bathtub doing the ad, and then she pitched

593
00:28:36,422 --> 00:28:38,342
Speaker 3: the idea, I think we should put a drop of

594
00:28:38,342 --> 00:28:40,382
Speaker 3: my bath water in the soap and make that a

595
00:28:40,742 --> 00:28:42,302
Speaker 3: promotional tool.

596
00:28:42,622 --> 00:28:45,422
Speaker 1: Right, So a bit salt, burn a bit salt when

597
00:28:45,422 --> 00:28:47,862
Speaker 1: he drinks the bath water, exactly of his love interest.

598
00:28:48,262 --> 00:28:51,421
Speaker 3: So the bar of soap retails for eight US dollars,

599
00:28:51,462 --> 00:28:53,422
Speaker 3: which is about twelve Australian dollars.

600
00:28:53,462 --> 00:28:53,782
Speaker 5: I don't know.

601
00:28:53,782 --> 00:28:55,502
Speaker 3: If I was going to put myself in some bath water,

602
00:28:55,982 --> 00:28:57,461
Speaker 3: I'd be charging at least fifteen.

603
00:28:57,582 --> 00:28:59,262
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter at salt Out now right.

604
00:28:59,462 --> 00:29:02,342
Speaker 3: The resale value on eBay now is like close to

605
00:29:02,382 --> 00:29:04,062
Speaker 3: three thousand Australian dollars.

606
00:29:04,302 --> 00:29:06,622
Speaker 1: It's interesting because when I was first reading about this,

607
00:29:06,902 --> 00:29:11,181
Speaker 1: and the Internet is obviously buzzing about it, I was like, ooh, yuck,

608
00:29:11,342 --> 00:29:13,782
Speaker 1: why would she do this? She doesn't need to do this.

609
00:29:14,982 --> 00:29:17,862
Speaker 1: Having heard the ad and the tone and thinking about

610
00:29:17,862 --> 00:29:20,822
Speaker 1: it a little bit more, there is a kind of

611
00:29:20,862 --> 00:29:22,822
Speaker 1: a rogue humor about it.

612
00:29:23,142 --> 00:29:24,302
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, there is.

613
00:29:24,661 --> 00:29:26,982
Speaker 3: On the cover of the Bar of Soap, it says

614
00:29:27,062 --> 00:29:28,382
Speaker 3: smells like morning wood.

615
00:29:28,702 --> 00:29:28,862
Speaker 7: Oh.

616
00:29:29,502 --> 00:29:31,422
Speaker 3: Some of the commentary since, like The New York posted

617
00:29:31,422 --> 00:29:34,142
Speaker 3: a review and they were like joking about like I

618
00:29:34,182 --> 00:29:35,742
Speaker 3: took a bite of it and it doesn't taste as

619
00:29:35,742 --> 00:29:38,342
Speaker 3: good as I expected it to, like that kind of stuff,

620
00:29:38,822 --> 00:29:40,542
Speaker 3: Like it gets pretty icky pretty fast.

621
00:29:40,622 --> 00:29:42,622
Speaker 2: Right when I first saw the ad, I thought it

622
00:29:42,742 --> 00:29:44,941
Speaker 2: was like an snl skit, Like, I thought it was

623
00:29:45,022 --> 00:29:47,542
Speaker 2: a full joke. And then when I found out it

624
00:29:47,582 --> 00:29:49,902
Speaker 2: was real, that's when I got a bit weird about it.

625
00:29:50,502 --> 00:29:53,421
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, why did you get weird about it because.

626
00:29:53,102 --> 00:29:55,742
Speaker 2: I felt like everything about Sidney Sweeney and she's talked

627
00:29:55,742 --> 00:29:59,142
Speaker 2: about her looks for a while now, and it's always

628
00:29:59,182 --> 00:30:03,021
Speaker 2: in the sense of I'm a really good actor. I

629
00:30:03,102 --> 00:30:05,542
Speaker 2: just want to get roles from my acting. And then

630
00:30:05,862 --> 00:30:08,422
Speaker 2: the funny part about her talking about her looks would

631
00:30:08,422 --> 00:30:10,102
Speaker 2: always be done in a way where she's in on

632
00:30:10,142 --> 00:30:12,582
Speaker 2: the joke, like when she was on SNL and things like.

633
00:30:12,542 --> 00:30:14,702
Speaker 1: That, he talks about a booth yeah, yeah.

634
00:30:14,742 --> 00:30:17,461
Speaker 2: And then now that she's making money off this, it

635
00:30:17,502 --> 00:30:20,422
Speaker 2: feels like that the joke has escaped her in a way. Yeah,

636
00:30:20,462 --> 00:30:22,302
Speaker 2: and I'm going back to talking about her looks and

637
00:30:22,342 --> 00:30:23,862
Speaker 2: she's like infiltrated that.

638
00:30:23,942 --> 00:30:28,182
Speaker 1: Well, not even her looks, more like rubbing her, yeah,

639
00:30:28,222 --> 00:30:31,702
Speaker 1: her sexuality, rubbing her on your body. But couldn't you say, well,

640
00:30:31,782 --> 00:30:33,342
Speaker 1: good for her, she's making the money.

641
00:30:33,502 --> 00:30:34,782
Speaker 2: If she was just making money and it was just

642
00:30:34,822 --> 00:30:36,661
Speaker 2: a bar soap that you're selling to everyone. But because

643
00:30:36,702 --> 00:30:40,262
Speaker 2: the soap is marketed towards men, that's where I felt

644
00:30:40,342 --> 00:30:42,982
Speaker 2: really weird about it. It's like she's trying.

645
00:30:42,822 --> 00:30:44,262
Speaker 1: Because it touched her naked body.

646
00:30:44,422 --> 00:30:47,142
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like a company owned by men. It's

647
00:30:47,142 --> 00:30:50,502
Speaker 3: not like a women own Sydney Sweeney owned brand entirely.

648
00:30:50,742 --> 00:30:52,221
Speaker 3: It feels like I felt icky.

649
00:30:52,262 --> 00:30:54,582
Speaker 2: And even all the comments from men who weren't able

650
00:30:54,622 --> 00:30:56,982
Speaker 2: to buy the soap were really weird, like they missed

651
00:30:57,022 --> 00:30:59,342
Speaker 2: out on Beyonce tickets or something like. I saw her

652
00:30:59,382 --> 00:31:03,022
Speaker 2: comments of men going I tried from minute one, no chance,

653
00:31:03,222 --> 00:31:04,102
Speaker 2: what a joke.

654
00:31:04,142 --> 00:31:05,822
Speaker 1: Like ause if they have owner sp it's like they're

655
00:31:05,902 --> 00:31:08,742
Speaker 1: so upset that they didn't get away soap. It also

656
00:31:08,862 --> 00:31:12,502
Speaker 1: is in a month where we've had a stalker crash

657
00:31:12,502 --> 00:31:16,382
Speaker 1: into Jennifer Andiston's house and be arrested. Taylor Swift has

658
00:31:16,422 --> 00:31:18,862
Speaker 1: just been you know, her stalk has been in court

659
00:31:18,902 --> 00:31:22,542
Speaker 1: as well. We know that famous women are sexualized and

660
00:31:22,622 --> 00:31:24,661
Speaker 1: stalked a lot.

661
00:31:24,582 --> 00:31:25,902
Speaker 5: And people want a piece of them.

662
00:31:26,062 --> 00:31:28,502
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just I mean, I guess you could

663
00:31:28,542 --> 00:31:32,182
Speaker 1: say it's incredibly subversive, but it Yeah, it does make

664
00:31:32,182 --> 00:31:32,982
Speaker 1: me uncomfortable.

665
00:31:33,182 --> 00:31:33,462
Speaker 5: Yeah.

666
00:31:33,542 --> 00:31:36,022
Speaker 3: So I am now about to take you into a

667
00:31:36,022 --> 00:31:39,342
Speaker 3: whole other stratosphere right and explained to a story that

668
00:31:39,382 --> 00:31:41,622
Speaker 3: has dominated TikTok over the last few days. Then I'm

669
00:31:41,622 --> 00:31:43,542
Speaker 3: going to explain how these things I think are related.

670
00:31:44,142 --> 00:31:45,102
Speaker 5: Do we remember.

671
00:31:44,822 --> 00:31:46,862
Speaker 3: Bonnie Blue sex troll Sextroll.

672
00:31:46,982 --> 00:31:48,421
Speaker 5: Interesting title. She'd love that.

673
00:31:48,582 --> 00:31:52,582
Speaker 3: She's a twenty six year old OnlyFans creator. She's British six.

674
00:31:52,982 --> 00:31:55,742
Speaker 1: She's twenty six. Sorry I'm putting it out there. I

675
00:31:55,782 --> 00:31:57,221
Speaker 1: don't think she's twenty six anyway.

676
00:31:57,502 --> 00:32:00,102
Speaker 3: She's twenty six according to the Google, but Mea said

677
00:32:00,142 --> 00:32:02,062
Speaker 3: she's not. So you know, who would you listen to?

678
00:32:02,661 --> 00:32:04,582
Speaker 3: She is British, which she's been living in Australia and

679
00:32:04,622 --> 00:32:07,382
Speaker 3: a little while ago, remember she got deported from Fiji

680
00:32:07,422 --> 00:32:09,542
Speaker 3: and then Australia. So like working visa.

681
00:32:09,382 --> 00:32:11,981
Speaker 1: Ish shoes and school is school is.

682
00:32:12,102 --> 00:32:15,142
Speaker 3: She wants barely llegal men to be part of her

683
00:32:15,502 --> 00:32:16,902
Speaker 3: Only Fans channel and she films them.

684
00:32:16,942 --> 00:32:18,461
Speaker 5: Blah blah blah. Highly controversial.

685
00:32:19,182 --> 00:32:22,502
Speaker 3: So this was the latest stunt that she was promoting.

686
00:32:22,782 --> 00:32:25,902
Speaker 6: What challenges do you have next, Bonnie Blues petting Zoo.

687
00:32:26,142 --> 00:32:28,582
Speaker 6: I am going to be in a glass box tied

688
00:32:28,702 --> 00:32:30,822
Speaker 6: up and it's going to be open for the public.

689
00:32:31,462 --> 00:32:34,421
Speaker 5: Oh my god, meet in the barks.

690
00:32:34,422 --> 00:32:37,382
Speaker 6: But people can join me to may touch me, just

691
00:32:37,462 --> 00:32:39,502
Speaker 6: look at me. Where I'm going to be in the

692
00:32:39,502 --> 00:32:40,822
Speaker 6: center of London in a house.

693
00:32:41,142 --> 00:32:44,782
Speaker 5: Oh oh okay, right, okay. So I was seeing like

694
00:32:44,862 --> 00:32:46,782
Speaker 5: David Blaine. I mean, I'd love to be on the

695
00:32:46,822 --> 00:32:48,222
Speaker 5: back of a lorry in a glass.

696
00:32:47,902 --> 00:32:51,421
Speaker 6: Box my way through the London, right, that would probably

697
00:32:51,422 --> 00:32:52,462
Speaker 6: be illegal.

698
00:32:52,302 --> 00:32:54,462
Speaker 5: Probably I want to do two thousand.

699
00:32:54,422 --> 00:32:58,702
Speaker 3: People were horrified. They said that this promotes rape culture,

700
00:32:58,782 --> 00:33:02,582
Speaker 3: and videos have been circulating on TikTok contrasting her statements

701
00:33:02,582 --> 00:33:06,462
Speaker 3: with like historical images from the Suffragettes or the way

702
00:33:06,502 --> 00:33:09,542
Speaker 3: in which women would be punished in the town square

703
00:33:09,742 --> 00:33:11,062
Speaker 3: and how that would turn sexual.

704
00:33:12,062 --> 00:33:13,142
Speaker 5: And it might seem unusual.

705
00:33:13,222 --> 00:33:14,862
Speaker 1: What's it good to do with the suffragettes?

706
00:33:15,142 --> 00:33:16,102
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's like.

707
00:33:16,262 --> 00:33:18,982
Speaker 3: This is what our grandmothers, our grandmothers fork for us

708
00:33:19,342 --> 00:33:22,862
Speaker 3: to have sexual freedom and empowerment, but also the like.

709
00:33:23,222 --> 00:33:25,622
Speaker 1: To be molested by two thousand men in a glass box.

710
00:33:25,702 --> 00:33:26,342
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

711
00:33:26,382 --> 00:33:26,701
Speaker 6: Money.

712
00:33:27,262 --> 00:33:30,622
Speaker 3: Now, it might seem strange to put these two stories together,

713
00:33:30,702 --> 00:33:33,182
Speaker 3: and of course we should say as well. Bonnie Blue

714
00:33:33,182 --> 00:33:35,981
Speaker 3: has since canceled her glass box stunt.

715
00:33:36,182 --> 00:33:37,181
Speaker 5: But hear me out.

716
00:33:37,382 --> 00:33:40,221
Speaker 3: These are two women in very different ways for filling

717
00:33:40,222 --> 00:33:42,941
Speaker 3: male fantasies for money. So they are profiting off the

718
00:33:42,982 --> 00:33:47,342
Speaker 3: sexualization of women or themselves the consumers of both of

719
00:33:47,382 --> 00:33:48,142
Speaker 3: these products.

720
00:33:48,542 --> 00:33:48,782
Speaker 5: Men.

721
00:33:49,062 --> 00:33:50,542
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to be stuck in a lift with

722
00:33:51,062 --> 00:33:54,022
Speaker 3: But in a way, both of these decisions are positioned

723
00:33:54,222 --> 00:33:56,902
Speaker 3: as empowering to some. These women would describe what they're

724
00:33:56,902 --> 00:34:00,102
Speaker 3: doing as empowering, right, And they cash.

725
00:33:59,902 --> 00:34:03,142
Speaker 1: Why would they describe it as empowering because they're making money.

726
00:34:03,142 --> 00:34:06,222
Speaker 1: They're making money off their bodies instead of men making

727
00:34:06,782 --> 00:34:08,942
Speaker 1: money off their sexual.

728
00:34:08,661 --> 00:34:11,261
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they would say, agency I'm making a choice.

729
00:34:11,462 --> 00:34:12,861
Speaker 3: This has nothing to do with anyone else.

730
00:34:12,902 --> 00:34:15,341
Speaker 1: We would have been making money off their bodies and

731
00:34:15,702 --> 00:34:19,462
Speaker 1: from sex and sexuality since the beginning of time. But

732
00:34:19,741 --> 00:34:21,821
Speaker 1: just because you're making money out of something, does that

733
00:34:22,022 --> 00:34:24,862
Speaker 1: mean that it's empowering? Well, I guess, And what is

734
00:34:24,902 --> 00:34:25,941
Speaker 1: empowering even means?

735
00:34:25,982 --> 00:34:28,902
Speaker 3: And it's been rebranded as empowerment. It didn't used to

736
00:34:29,382 --> 00:34:32,701
Speaker 3: one hundred, two hundred years ago be branded as empowerment, right,

737
00:34:32,781 --> 00:34:35,822
Speaker 3: And so I want to know, is this hurting the cause?

738
00:34:35,942 --> 00:34:39,022
Speaker 3: Is this hurting the feminist cause? Or can it kind

739
00:34:39,062 --> 00:34:43,701
Speaker 3: of be defended with the language of like girl boss feminism?

740
00:34:43,982 --> 00:34:44,902
Speaker 5: And what do you think?

741
00:34:45,422 --> 00:34:48,902
Speaker 2: I actually, I don't think it's hurting the feminine cause,

742
00:34:49,142 --> 00:34:52,982
Speaker 2: but I do think what you did the comparison with Playboy,

743
00:34:53,542 --> 00:34:56,422
Speaker 2: it is similar, but not to this extent, like I

744
00:34:56,462 --> 00:34:59,702
Speaker 2: think for me, it's the men who are so upset

745
00:34:59,701 --> 00:35:01,941
Speaker 2: about not buying the soap bars, similar to the men

746
00:35:02,102 --> 00:35:06,461
Speaker 2: standing in lines to go have sex with women. It's

747
00:35:06,822 --> 00:35:09,741
Speaker 2: the fact that when now realizing that the demand and

748
00:35:09,862 --> 00:35:12,982
Speaker 2: for these acts are still so so high with men

749
00:35:13,342 --> 00:35:15,301
Speaker 2: that we probably might know through a friend of a

750
00:35:15,302 --> 00:35:18,261
Speaker 2: friend of a friend, and that kind of terrifies.

751
00:35:17,781 --> 00:35:20,901
Speaker 3: Me, Like I'm thinking of the Bonnie Blue example and

752
00:35:21,382 --> 00:35:26,142
Speaker 3: basically putting her body on the line to fulfill a

753
00:35:26,422 --> 00:35:30,821
Speaker 3: male rape fantasy in a public place with a big

754
00:35:30,862 --> 00:35:34,382
Speaker 3: smile on her face, as though that isn't something that

755
00:35:34,422 --> 00:35:37,582
Speaker 3: women have been subjected to that is the most traumatic

756
00:35:37,942 --> 00:35:41,381
Speaker 3: incident of their lives. And then to make money off

757
00:35:41,422 --> 00:35:43,261
Speaker 3: it or to platform it, like it just feels so

758
00:35:44,221 --> 00:35:44,942
Speaker 3: sickening to me.

759
00:35:45,142 --> 00:35:47,542
Speaker 1: Can we take feminism completely out of it because it

760
00:35:47,622 --> 00:35:50,381
Speaker 1: drives me crazy when a woman does a thing and

761
00:35:50,422 --> 00:35:53,062
Speaker 1: we use it as a way to debate whether feminism

762
00:35:53,102 --> 00:35:57,542
Speaker 1: works or not. Because feminism is just about men and

763
00:35:57,582 --> 00:36:01,422
Speaker 1: women having equal rights. That's literally all it is. Now,

764
00:36:01,661 --> 00:36:03,901
Speaker 1: just because a woman does a thing, it doesn't mean

765
00:36:03,942 --> 00:36:06,261
Speaker 1: that thing is a feminist thing because a woman did it.

766
00:36:06,902 --> 00:36:09,741
Speaker 1: This is just about capitalism. It's just about money. It's

767
00:36:09,781 --> 00:36:13,022
Speaker 1: about Sidney Sweeney making money off her body, which she

768
00:36:13,102 --> 00:36:15,782
Speaker 1: has every right to do, and it is about Bonnie

769
00:36:15,781 --> 00:36:18,461
Speaker 1: Blue making money off her body, which she has every

770
00:36:18,542 --> 00:36:21,221
Speaker 1: right to do, and to try and dress it up

771
00:36:21,382 --> 00:36:23,582
Speaker 1: or dress it down or turn it into something that

772
00:36:23,622 --> 00:36:28,622
Speaker 1: it's not in terms of feminism and being empowering or

773
00:36:28,661 --> 00:36:29,622
Speaker 1: not empowering.

774
00:36:29,701 --> 00:36:33,301
Speaker 3: I mean, but what happens when Sidney Sweeney then, and

775
00:36:33,342 --> 00:36:35,821
Speaker 3: she's talked about this in the context of Hollywood, when

776
00:36:35,862 --> 00:36:37,661
Speaker 3: she says I want to be taken seriously, which is

777
00:36:37,661 --> 00:36:39,502
Speaker 3: something that she said, I want to be taken seriously

778
00:36:39,582 --> 00:36:40,862
Speaker 3: as a producer.

779
00:36:40,982 --> 00:36:43,742
Speaker 1: Although she's getting very bad advice, and I shouldn't patron

780
00:36:43,741 --> 00:36:46,661
Speaker 1: I say she's making very bad decisions because I think

781
00:36:46,701 --> 00:36:51,142
Speaker 1: that making money is not the same as being empowered. Well,

782
00:36:51,181 --> 00:36:53,982
Speaker 1: I guess it is for some people, but you know,

783
00:36:54,102 --> 00:36:58,022
Speaker 1: the word empowered makes it seem like something much bigger

784
00:36:58,022 --> 00:37:00,582
Speaker 1: than it is. I mean, yes, power in our society

785
00:37:00,622 --> 00:37:04,302
Speaker 1: comes from having money and having attention, and Sidney Sweeney

786
00:37:04,302 --> 00:37:06,702
Speaker 1: and Bonnie Blue both know how to do those things

787
00:37:06,942 --> 00:37:10,142
Speaker 1: really really, really well. But it's very cheating. I mean,

788
00:37:10,181 --> 00:37:13,782
Speaker 1: I've got different problems with obviously, it's hard to compare

789
00:37:14,022 --> 00:37:16,942
Speaker 1: both of them, but the whole Bonnie Blue and Annie

790
00:37:16,982 --> 00:37:18,861
Speaker 1: Knight does it as well. The good news is that

791
00:37:19,022 --> 00:37:22,821
Speaker 1: Bonnie Blue's now been removed from Only Fans because this

792
00:37:22,942 --> 00:37:27,261
Speaker 1: extreme challenge content Only Fans has happily decided that that's

793
00:37:27,302 --> 00:37:30,701
Speaker 1: not good for the world, and so they've removed her.

794
00:37:30,942 --> 00:37:34,102
Speaker 1: But you know, last week, Annie Knight did a stunt

795
00:37:34,142 --> 00:37:36,422
Speaker 1: where she wanted to sleep with one thousand men in

796
00:37:36,422 --> 00:37:38,221
Speaker 1: a day, and she ended up in hospital and that

797
00:37:38,382 --> 00:37:43,342
Speaker 1: was everywhere, and it's like, I just find it grotesque

798
00:37:43,382 --> 00:37:46,062
Speaker 1: this thing that they have to do these stunts because

799
00:37:46,102 --> 00:37:48,221
Speaker 1: everything in the world has to be more and more

800
00:37:48,261 --> 00:37:51,502
Speaker 1: extreme to get attention, right, It's not enough to just

801
00:37:51,701 --> 00:37:54,261
Speaker 1: have sex with one person on camera. You have to

802
00:37:54,302 --> 00:37:56,901
Speaker 1: have sex with one hundred people. And then when I

803
00:37:56,942 --> 00:37:59,861
Speaker 1: interviewed Annie a year or two ago, she was having

804
00:37:59,902 --> 00:38:03,221
Speaker 1: sex with like five hundred people in a year. Now

805
00:38:03,261 --> 00:38:06,102
Speaker 1: it's one thousand people in a day, and now Bonnie

806
00:38:06,102 --> 00:38:09,142
Speaker 1: Blue wants to top that by being two thousand people. Firstly,

807
00:38:09,181 --> 00:38:11,582
Speaker 1: I don't believe it's actually happening, and it's just like

808
00:38:11,622 --> 00:38:14,902
Speaker 1: I don't believe Body Blues twenty six. And secondly, I

809
00:38:14,902 --> 00:38:18,622
Speaker 1: think it's debasing, dehumanizing, extremism.

810
00:38:18,982 --> 00:38:21,261
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually change my answer. I do think it

811
00:38:21,302 --> 00:38:25,701
Speaker 2: is harming feminism because I think exactly what you said, Jesse, like,

812
00:38:25,781 --> 00:38:30,102
Speaker 2: it is perpetuating this male rape fantasy, and by them

813
00:38:30,261 --> 00:38:33,462
Speaker 2: doing this, we actually see how many men have this

814
00:38:33,582 --> 00:38:36,702
Speaker 2: fantasis and are now really open with that fantasy because

815
00:38:36,781 --> 00:38:38,781
Speaker 2: it's framed in a way where they're saying, no, I'm

816
00:38:38,822 --> 00:38:42,102
Speaker 2: empowering her because she feels empowered when this happens, and

817
00:38:42,142 --> 00:38:44,062
Speaker 2: I think that is what's impacting everything.

818
00:38:44,261 --> 00:38:47,381
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I also think remember that that's also not feminism.

819
00:38:47,382 --> 00:38:49,502
Speaker 1: To be clear, that is a bad thing for women

820
00:38:49,622 --> 00:38:53,422
Speaker 1: and a bad thing for and men understanding consent. But

821
00:38:53,701 --> 00:38:54,982
Speaker 1: that's not what feminism is.

822
00:38:55,022 --> 00:38:56,582
Speaker 5: I suppose it's like put women aside.

823
00:38:56,582 --> 00:38:57,821
Speaker 3: And I actually want to talk about the men for

824
00:38:57,822 --> 00:39:01,861
Speaker 3: a minute, because the cultural conversations that happened after adolescence, right,

825
00:39:01,902 --> 00:39:07,102
Speaker 3: we're about young boys who are lonely, who are being

826
00:39:07,221 --> 00:39:10,982
Speaker 3: radicalized online, toxic masculine, all of those things that have

827
00:39:11,102 --> 00:39:13,582
Speaker 3: been discussed, and we go, how do we fix this?

828
00:39:13,622 --> 00:39:15,341
Speaker 3: It's one of the biggest Every time Mum Maya writes

829
00:39:15,342 --> 00:39:19,182
Speaker 3: an article about the crisis of young boys, it goes

830
00:39:19,181 --> 00:39:22,381
Speaker 3: off because people are really invested in this question. Now,

831
00:39:22,462 --> 00:39:24,941
Speaker 3: capitalism has its clause in it, and it's going you're

832
00:39:24,942 --> 00:39:29,301
Speaker 3: telling me there's a demographic of like disenfranchised young men

833
00:39:29,422 --> 00:39:32,461
Speaker 3: who have these revolting fantasies. I've got an idea sell

834
00:39:32,502 --> 00:39:35,421
Speaker 3: to them, Like, let's not try and change them, and

835
00:39:35,462 --> 00:39:38,701
Speaker 3: not only let's sell to them, let's get women to

836
00:39:38,781 --> 00:39:39,381
Speaker 3: sell to them.

837
00:39:39,661 --> 00:39:40,981
Speaker 5: Like that to me is.

838
00:39:41,102 --> 00:39:43,301
Speaker 1: Yeah, and gas lighting us further by going under the

839
00:39:43,342 --> 00:39:44,982
Speaker 1: guise of female empower.

840
00:39:45,102 --> 00:39:48,901
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly, as if Sidney Sweeney is the winner here.

841
00:39:49,221 --> 00:39:51,342
Speaker 5: No, I don't think Sidney Sweeney is the winner.

842
00:39:51,382 --> 00:39:53,622
Speaker 3: I think it's the dirty guy who's like, I've got

843
00:39:53,622 --> 00:39:56,422
Speaker 3: some of Sydney Sweeney's bath and licking it. It's like,

844
00:39:56,542 --> 00:40:01,261
Speaker 3: you're disgusting. If I went to Luca's search history and

845
00:40:01,342 --> 00:40:04,102
Speaker 3: I saw Sidney Sweeney's bathwater and he spent two thousand

846
00:40:04,102 --> 00:40:06,862
Speaker 3: dollars amount money on that woman's bathwater, I would.

847
00:40:06,622 --> 00:40:07,982
Speaker 1: Go, now, how much the soap is?

848
00:40:08,062 --> 00:40:08,181
Speaker 4: Now?

849
00:40:08,261 --> 00:40:10,941
Speaker 3: Well, with the resale value value, I would go, Look,

850
00:40:11,102 --> 00:40:13,461
Speaker 3: we need to have a serious dinner table conversation because

851
00:40:13,462 --> 00:40:14,181
Speaker 3: I'm not impressed.

852
00:40:14,942 --> 00:40:18,902
Speaker 2: Before we go, have you two heard about the haunted

853
00:40:18,982 --> 00:40:22,542
Speaker 2: house trends, So you start by saying a haunted house,

854
00:40:22,701 --> 00:40:24,942
Speaker 2: but and then you fill in the blank with something

855
00:40:24,982 --> 00:40:28,062
Speaker 2: that haunts you but isn't typically scary. So, for example,

856
00:40:28,661 --> 00:40:30,702
Speaker 2: a haunted house, but it's a room full of people

857
00:40:30,781 --> 00:40:32,982
Speaker 2: asking you to tell them a fun fact about yourself,

858
00:40:34,542 --> 00:40:34,982
Speaker 2: and this.

859
00:40:34,902 --> 00:40:36,582
Speaker 5: Lie two triths in a line, So good.

860
00:40:36,902 --> 00:40:39,422
Speaker 2: A haunted house, but it's just you and another person

861
00:40:39,502 --> 00:40:41,701
Speaker 2: in adjoining bathroom stalls, and both of you need to

862
00:40:41,741 --> 00:40:43,622
Speaker 2: poop but are waiting for the other person to leave.

863
00:40:45,342 --> 00:40:46,622
Speaker 5: Okay, I've got one. I've got one.

864
00:40:46,741 --> 00:40:50,062
Speaker 3: My haunted house is walking in and seeing all the

865
00:40:50,102 --> 00:40:53,582
Speaker 3: text messages that I sent to someone who dumped me

866
00:40:53,701 --> 00:40:58,062
Speaker 3: after dark, especially after midnight, like all the text messages

867
00:40:58,062 --> 00:41:00,821
Speaker 3: that I sent maybe after a drink or two. That

868
00:41:00,902 --> 00:41:03,022
Speaker 3: to me is something I never need to confront. That's

869
00:41:03,022 --> 00:41:04,142
Speaker 3: scarier than any ghost.

870
00:41:04,382 --> 00:41:08,102
Speaker 1: So mine would be a haunted house full of people

871
00:41:08,102 --> 00:41:11,941
Speaker 1: who canceled me. That's such a good one. And I've

872
00:41:11,942 --> 00:41:17,261
Speaker 1: got another one, A haunted house full of people scrolling

873
00:41:17,302 --> 00:41:20,102
Speaker 1: through their phones looking for something that they really need

874
00:41:20,142 --> 00:41:22,901
Speaker 1: to show me, and I just have to stand there

875
00:41:22,982 --> 00:41:25,661
Speaker 1: while they all scroll and they can't find it.

876
00:41:25,781 --> 00:41:28,221
Speaker 3: Then they all find the YouTube video, which actually is

877
00:41:28,261 --> 00:41:30,142
Speaker 3: three and a half minutes long, but you'll like it.

878
00:41:30,221 --> 00:41:33,142
Speaker 5: Just just keep keep, just wait till the end. Just wait.

879
00:41:33,261 --> 00:41:37,582
Speaker 3: Mine is also seeing my legs poke through my jeans

880
00:41:37,582 --> 00:41:39,261
Speaker 3: in the middle of winter when I've not looked at

881
00:41:39,261 --> 00:41:41,102
Speaker 3: them for a while, and the like texture of my

882
00:41:41,181 --> 00:41:43,262
Speaker 3: skin and also just like a little bit of shocking

883
00:41:43,342 --> 00:41:45,542
Speaker 3: ankle hair Like that's pretty terrifying.

884
00:41:45,741 --> 00:41:46,661
Speaker 5: How about you, em.

885
00:41:46,781 --> 00:41:49,821
Speaker 2: Okay, mine would be a haunted house full of the

886
00:41:49,942 --> 00:41:52,461
Speaker 2: men who rejected me by saying they found someone else

887
00:41:52,582 --> 00:41:53,381
Speaker 2: with the someone else.

888
00:41:54,942 --> 00:41:56,261
Speaker 5: That's so true.

889
00:41:56,661 --> 00:41:58,622
Speaker 1: Out Louders, we want to hear what your haunted house

890
00:41:58,661 --> 00:42:01,461
Speaker 1: would be. Tell us on Instagram or in the out

891
00:42:01,462 --> 00:42:02,461
Speaker 1: Louders Facebook group.

892
00:42:02,982 --> 00:42:04,861
Speaker 3: A big thank you to all of you the out

893
00:42:04,862 --> 00:42:07,582
Speaker 3: Louders for listening to today's show and our fabulous team

894
00:42:07,701 --> 00:42:11,622
Speaker 3: for putting this show together. Studios are styled with furniture

895
00:42:11,622 --> 00:42:14,462
Speaker 3: from Fenton and Fenton. Visit Fenton and Fenton dot com

896
00:42:14,502 --> 00:42:17,502
Speaker 3: dot au. We will be back in your ears tomorrow.

897
00:42:17,542 --> 00:42:19,381
Speaker 5: Bye bye.

898
00:42:20,022 --> 00:42:23,301
Speaker 1: Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening. If you

899
00:42:23,422 --> 00:42:25,782
Speaker 1: love the show and want to support us as well,

900
00:42:25,982 --> 00:42:28,502
Speaker 1: subscribing to Mama Miya is the very best way to

901
00:42:28,542 --> 00:42:30,942
Speaker 1: do so. There is a link in the episode description.