WEBVTT - SUNDAY SPECIAL: How Do I Know If I'm Drinking Too Much?

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on. Hello, out louders, it's

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<v Speaker 2>Holly popping up in your ears today to tell you

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<v Speaker 2>about our out Loud Sunday special. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>you've been listening to MID, but if not, why not.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the show that I host that is for gen

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<v Speaker 2>x women who are anything but and on MED. We

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<v Speaker 2>have all kinds of conversations about all kinds of things

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<v Speaker 2>that grown up women have to deal with, and one

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<v Speaker 2>of them that is very relevant at this time of

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<v Speaker 2>year is about alcohol. You might be well and truly

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<v Speaker 2>into the silly season now, Christmas parties, festive lunches, New Years,

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<v Speaker 2>all of that stuff, and how do you know if

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<v Speaker 2>your relationship with alcohol is getting a bit out of control.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the first episodes of MID I did because

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<v Speaker 2>I knew this was a big topic for gen X women,

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<v Speaker 2>was with Shana Juan from Sober in the Country, and

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<v Speaker 2>I talked to her about her story about how she

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<v Speaker 2>broke up with alcohol in midlife, how she did it,

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<v Speaker 2>what her life's like now, what had brought her to

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<v Speaker 2>that point, how do you know if you're drinking too much?

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<v Speaker 2>It's a really important conversation. And look, if you want

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<v Speaker 2>more Mid, jump over to the midfeed and there are

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<v Speaker 2>plenty of episodes about all kinds of things that affect

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<v Speaker 2>gen X women in that feed, and you can listen

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<v Speaker 2>via the link in our show notes. Gen X grew

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<v Speaker 2>up with the cool girls with the drink like the boys,

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<v Speaker 2>girls with beers and bladders and big fruity cocktails, weekends

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<v Speaker 2>of blurry bedtimes and painful mornings for what happened last

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<v Speaker 2>night and examining mystery bruises through a thickening head. Our

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<v Speaker 2>pinups weren't five am yoga girlies clutching smoothie. We swooned

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<v Speaker 2>over Kate Moss slinking out from somewhere, drinking one hand,

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<v Speaker 2>dart in the other, a footloose man at her side.

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<v Speaker 2>We were messy, sometimes made some bad calls, perhaps woke

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<v Speaker 2>up with the shame maybe, But that's what fun was,

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<v Speaker 2>we thought. Then we grew up and there was wine

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<v Speaker 2>o'clock and Hen's Nights and girls did and Margie's and

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<v Speaker 2>it's definitely six o'clock somewhere, and pop a bottle and

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<v Speaker 2>we get knocked down, but we get up again, and

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<v Speaker 2>then we didn't really go out anymore. But the wine

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<v Speaker 2>was still in the fridge. And maybe it gets you

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<v Speaker 2>through those witching hours between five and seven, But then

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<v Speaker 2>what then? Those hours can be hard and long without

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<v Speaker 2>the fridge doors swinging open and the sound of the

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<v Speaker 2>glug glug. Poor, best not think about it. Life's a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>You deserve a little treat. And it's been the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that's been there for you at all the big moments,

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<v Speaker 2>hand in yours as you've grown up, a symbol of summer,

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<v Speaker 2>of good times, of freedom and holidays and birthdays and

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<v Speaker 2>christenings and Sunday afternoons just because. And then maybe yes,

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<v Speaker 2>it's been there hand in yours, in the arguments that

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<v Speaker 2>should never have been and that thing that you didn't

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<v Speaker 2>mean to say to your kid, and the shortened temper

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<v Speaker 2>and the messy memories that you've chased away. It was

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<v Speaker 2>there at the breakup and on that night you did

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<v Speaker 2>what you said you wouldn't, and that one your friends

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<v Speaker 2>still talk about, and you wonder, I think I might

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<v Speaker 2>have outgrown you alcohol. Why are you still here? Hello,

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<v Speaker 2>and welcome to mid My name's Holly Wainwright and I

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<v Speaker 2>am mid midlife, mid family, mid identity crisis. Look, we're

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<v Speaker 2>here to have the conversations that interest Gen X women

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<v Speaker 2>because we are anything but mid And the only conversations

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<v Speaker 2>we've got time for are deep ones, helpful ones, ones

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<v Speaker 2>that make us we a little bit because we're snort

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<v Speaker 2>laughing so hard. All of that's okay. And today I'm

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<v Speaker 2>having one of those kind of conversations with Shanna. One

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<v Speaker 2>about Generation X is complicated relationship with alcohol. We drink

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<v Speaker 2>more than the generation above and the generation below. And

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<v Speaker 2>here's where I put up my hand and say that

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<v Speaker 2>I am not sober. I am not a sober member

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<v Speaker 2>of Generation X. Alcohol definitely plays a role in my life,

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<v Speaker 2>as I say to Shanna, but she told me that

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<v Speaker 2>ninety percent of the people who seek help from her

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<v Speaker 2>organization sober in the country or women aged between forty

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<v Speaker 2>and sixty.

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<v Speaker 1>That's us.

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<v Speaker 2>Friends. You might have heard Shanna speak before on Australian

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<v Speaker 2>Story or on MEA's No Filter. You might have seen

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<v Speaker 2>her accepting an award for Australian of the Year, Local

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<v Speaker 2>Hero or Mary Clare's Advocate of the Year. You might

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<v Speaker 2>have even seen her representing Australia on the international stage

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<v Speaker 2>at the funeral of the Queen of England. Because all

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<v Speaker 2>of those things have happened, Shanna is a big deal

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<v Speaker 2>in the sober world, not that you'd ever hear her

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<v Speaker 2>saying that, because she took her own life experience as

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<v Speaker 2>a former self described small town drunk and turned it

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<v Speaker 2>into an organization that helps others. It was twenty fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>when Shanna made the decision to give up drinking, a

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<v Speaker 2>decision that she says saved her life, and she started

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<v Speaker 2>Sober in the Country. It's a grassroots charity with a

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<v Speaker 2>simple mission to ensure all our mates know that it's

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<v Speaker 2>okay to say no to booze in the bush. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you want to hear the whole story about how

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<v Speaker 2>that happened, we'll put the link to Shanna's conversation on

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<v Speaker 2>no Filter in the show notes. But if you're thinking, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this is going to be about people who live in

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<v Speaker 2>the country, well it is, but not only because Shanner's

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<v Speaker 2>messages about alcohol are very relevant and might resonate with

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<v Speaker 2>you no matter where you are. Shanna, thank you so

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<v Speaker 2>much for coming on to talk to us on mid

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<v Speaker 2>I want to jump right in with this question, right,

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<v Speaker 2>because I've been told that around eighty percent of the

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<v Speaker 2>people who come to your peer support group, Sober in

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<v Speaker 2>the Country are women age between forty and sixty. Is

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<v Speaker 2>that true?

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<v Speaker 1>It is true, Holly, it is and it's a statistic

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<v Speaker 1>that never ceases to make me feel a bit sad.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, my age group are the greatest portion of

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<v Speaker 1>our peer support network, which we call the bush Tribe.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so tell me a little bit about the bush

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<v Speaker 2>Tribe first, so that people can get a picture of

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<v Speaker 2>what we're talking about. Give me a bit of a

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<v Speaker 2>snapshot of what you've been doing for the past gosh,

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<v Speaker 2>is it nine years now?

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<v Speaker 1>It's heading towards ten years since I personally said see

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<v Speaker 1>you later. Tabooze Sober in the Country was effectively registered

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<v Speaker 1>as a national charity in late twenty nineteen after Australian

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<v Speaker 1>Story did an episode on us. Myself is a human being.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been having these conversations since twenty fifteen, and so yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're heading on towards a decade.

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<v Speaker 2>Shanna, if you don't mind me asking how old were

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<v Speaker 2>you in twenty fifteen?

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<v Speaker 1>When you oh, shivers, are you going to make me

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<v Speaker 1>do that? I turned fifty pc years, so it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was around forty, around forty, yeah, around forty. Your own

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<v Speaker 2>story also fits into this kind of demo of the

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<v Speaker 2>forty to sixty year old women going hold on this

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<v Speaker 2>is not working.

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<v Speaker 1>It very much does. And as I read, and I've

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<v Speaker 1>probably said forty eight million times, I share my own

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<v Speaker 1>story of overcoming alcohol addiction and suffering from that battle,

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<v Speaker 1>not because it's unique and not because I'm special, but

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<v Speaker 1>precisely because of the opposite, because my story is horrifyingly,

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<v Speaker 1>horrifyingly common, and it's especially horrifyingly common in my age group.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so to to go back and just I

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<v Speaker 1>guess give you the blurb on the charity, so Sober

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<v Speaker 1>in the Country is a bush charity and we exist

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<v Speaker 1>to raise awareness and have conversations around alcohol heim in

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<v Speaker 1>rural and remote Australia. And our primary purpose in a

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<v Speaker 1>snapshot is to aim for a future rural Australia in

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<v Speaker 1>which our mates know it's always okay to say no, thanks,

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<v Speaker 1>no thanks, to be or not today right. Our okay

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<v Speaker 1>to say no hashtag is what we roll out with.

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<v Speaker 1>But of course, underneath that friendly, happy, very inclusive hashtag

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<v Speaker 1>is a much small serious chat. Your listeners might be thinking, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't need to listen to this if it's about

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<v Speaker 1>the bush. It's actually a universal chat. Alcohol harm is

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<v Speaker 1>an issue globally and nationally. We just happen to focus

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<v Speaker 1>on the rural sector. But this chat it's relevant to

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<v Speaker 1>any of your listeners in that space.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, when you talk about why you started sober

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<v Speaker 2>in the country, you talk about obviously the isolation that

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<v Speaker 2>people in the bush face when it comes to this,

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<v Speaker 2>and the sometimes lack of resources. But drinking isolates a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people no matter where they are right So

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<v Speaker 2>it's this thing of people feeling like they're struggling alone,

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<v Speaker 2>even if they are right in the middle of the city.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that everybody's story is individual, but as you've

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<v Speaker 2>already said, your particular story and coming to ask for

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<v Speaker 2>help when you're forty is quite typical. What's the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of average reason that a woman in our age group

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<v Speaker 2>finally goes it's time. I need to try and address this,

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<v Speaker 2>because I've also heard you say that it can take

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<v Speaker 2>twenty years for people to recognize that their relationship with

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<v Speaker 2>alcohol is problematic. Could you pay me a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a picture of a kind of average story that might

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<v Speaker 2>bring somebody to your door.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, do you know what, I'll use myself as an

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<v Speaker 1>example just because that way I can't get it wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>But I am very typical, as we've discussed with my demographics.

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<v Speaker 1>So Shannawan enters the world or back then, Shannon Rowlands

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<v Speaker 1>enters the world bright eyed, bushy child. I've got the

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<v Speaker 1>world at my feet. I've got a loving family in

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<v Speaker 1>my case, which confuses a lot of people, right because

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<v Speaker 1>they think the only people who can end up suicidal

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<v Speaker 1>and almost dead from addiction are people who've had a

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<v Speaker 1>rotten childhood. That's a common misnomer. In my eighteenth year,

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<v Speaker 1>as we discuss and explore in Mamma Mea, I experience

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<v Speaker 1>multiple sexual assaults and rape and trauma. So I turned

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<v Speaker 1>to alcohol because it's prevalent, and it's abundant, and it's everywhere,

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<v Speaker 1>and I learn very quickly if I have a few drinks,

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<v Speaker 1>my inhibitions are dropped, My worries peer to go into

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<v Speaker 1>a different realm where they're not, as you know, prevalent

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<v Speaker 1>and ever constantine. Voila entering the era where I use

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<v Speaker 1>alcohol to self medicate. But because I'm beautiful and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>young and I'm perceived as a fun party girl. No

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<v Speaker 1>one perceives or looks at that as a red flag

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<v Speaker 1>or an issue because all of us in that age

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<v Speaker 1>group are partying really really hard. Yes, I mean you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like that's it was normal, wasn't it? It was normal?

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<v Speaker 2>And also I think that almost for our generation, because

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<v Speaker 2>I think this is shifting happily. But it was almost

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<v Speaker 2>like proving that you could party with the boys, whether

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<v Speaker 2>that was in your setting in the bush, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a very particular kind of testosterone fueled environment, but there

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<v Speaker 2>are testosterone fueled environments everywhere, and certainly I grew up

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<v Speaker 2>in a city in England and being able to drink

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<v Speaker 2>with the boys and being able to drink like a

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<v Speaker 2>bloke and being a good time party person was high status.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it was whether or not you were doing it

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<v Speaker 2>to cover up your own insecurities or to get past

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<v Speaker 2>the trauma from it was kind of irrelevant. It was

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<v Speaker 2>seen as a good time, So please go on. You

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<v Speaker 2>were saying it was seen like it wasn't a pride.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a badge of honor, hey, isn't it. It's like right,

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<v Speaker 1>So there's the trauma factor, there's that I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 1>fit in in this extremely male dominated environment where no

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<v Speaker 1>one's going to take me seriously. Maybe if I do

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<v Speaker 1>this it'll help and fit it. You know, I can

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<v Speaker 1>fit in exactly what you've just said. And so you

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<v Speaker 1>look at a person who ends up in addiction and

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<v Speaker 1>they don't wake up one day and think, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd quite like to be that person who's on the

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<v Speaker 1>edge of suicide and had enough with life and wants

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<v Speaker 1>to check out. But that's where I was at age forty,

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<v Speaker 1>and as I share anytime I do a keynote talk

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<v Speaker 1>or do social media posts or whatever, this is a

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<v Speaker 1>twenty year discent. It began here, but it ended there,

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<v Speaker 1>and so is the complex nature of alcohol abuse, me

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<v Speaker 1>huse and finally addiction. It's a sliding scale and it

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<v Speaker 1>begins over here, but it ends there. And for me,

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<v Speaker 1>I was in that absolute classic statistic of a person

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<v Speaker 1>who took between eighteen and twenty years to seek support.

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<v Speaker 1>And I believe that statistic is what it is because

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<v Speaker 1>of what we've just discussed over here. It's seen as

0:12:33.767 --> 0:12:37.807
<v Speaker 1>completely normal. But at the end, when you're the forty

0:12:37.847 --> 0:12:41.407
<v Speaker 1>year old woman passing out at a dinner party or

0:12:41.927 --> 0:12:46.167
<v Speaker 1>doing humiliating, you know, extremely embarrassing things in public. You're

0:12:46.167 --> 0:12:49.327
<v Speaker 1>no longer able to slip under that radar of party girl,

0:12:49.367 --> 0:12:52.927
<v Speaker 1>fun girl, because you're now you're now forty. It's not

0:12:52.967 --> 0:12:57.407
<v Speaker 1>so funny anymore. It's actually embarrassing and noticeable, which in

0:12:57.487 --> 0:13:01.447
<v Speaker 1>itself is a whole ridiculous issue of complexities, because it

0:13:01.527 --> 0:13:04.527
<v Speaker 1>really is. It shouldn't be age relevant, should it.

0:13:04.527 --> 0:13:07.007
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like it's not cute anymore, Like it

0:13:07.127 --> 0:13:10.447
<v Speaker 2>was cute there for a while, but now it's like, oh,

0:13:10.487 --> 0:13:12.367
<v Speaker 2>we should be worried about her. And if you throw

0:13:12.447 --> 0:13:15.327
<v Speaker 2>in that often, you know, for a lot of us,

0:13:15.447 --> 0:13:18.407
<v Speaker 2>these issues can they might take you through motherhood or

0:13:18.487 --> 0:13:21.447
<v Speaker 2>marriage or divorce or whatever. You know, you're kind of

0:13:21.487 --> 0:13:25.007
<v Speaker 2>juggling these things, but the alcohol use is still there.

0:13:26.127 --> 0:13:28.687
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to ask you the idea that it takes

0:13:28.727 --> 0:13:31.407
<v Speaker 2>between eighteen twenty years, and as you say that where

0:13:31.447 --> 0:13:33.487
<v Speaker 2>you may end up might be somewhere quite extreme.

0:13:34.287 --> 0:13:36.007
<v Speaker 1>But for some women it's not.

0:13:35.967 --> 0:13:38.527
<v Speaker 2>Necessarily that they're at a very extreme end, but it's

0:13:38.567 --> 0:13:41.647
<v Speaker 2>that they're unable to let go of that crutch. And yes,

0:13:42.327 --> 0:13:44.127
<v Speaker 2>I know that in your conversation with me, you do

0:13:44.207 --> 0:13:47.127
<v Speaker 2>talk about a rock bottom moment for you that brought

0:13:47.167 --> 0:13:49.007
<v Speaker 2>you to the point where you were like, this time,

0:13:49.047 --> 0:13:49.527
<v Speaker 2>I have.

0:13:49.447 --> 0:13:51.167
<v Speaker 1>To get help or I die.

0:13:51.487 --> 0:13:54.887
<v Speaker 2>Yes, do you think and does your experience talking to

0:13:54.927 --> 0:13:58.527
<v Speaker 2>women about this is that What is the usual catalyst

0:13:58.607 --> 0:14:01.087
<v Speaker 2>for somebody putting their hand up in this age bracket

0:14:01.087 --> 0:14:05.207
<v Speaker 2>and going, actually, I've got to change this or can

0:14:05.287 --> 0:14:07.087
<v Speaker 2>it sometimes be something less dramatic?

0:14:08.287 --> 0:14:10.647
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for raising that. Holy it's such

0:14:10.687 --> 0:14:15.247
<v Speaker 1>a great question. It can be one hundred things at

0:14:15.287 --> 0:14:18.447
<v Speaker 1>any given point in time. One of the most difficult

0:14:18.487 --> 0:14:23.727
<v Speaker 1>aspects of raising conversations around alcohol harm and addiction is

0:14:24.967 --> 0:14:28.847
<v Speaker 1>this pervasive message that we are fed that the only

0:14:28.927 --> 0:14:31.287
<v Speaker 1>reason you should ever quit alcohol is if you are

0:14:31.887 --> 0:14:34.767
<v Speaker 1>someone in addiction or you've had a rock bottom crisis moment.

0:14:35.247 --> 0:14:38.167
<v Speaker 1>And that is such rubbish. That is such a lie

0:14:38.247 --> 0:14:41.487
<v Speaker 1>that we are fed from society. So my answer to

0:14:41.567 --> 0:14:46.247
<v Speaker 1>that is no, and happily and thank god for advocates

0:14:46.367 --> 0:14:50.687
<v Speaker 1>like me or other charities or other social media influencers.

0:14:51.407 --> 0:14:54.607
<v Speaker 1>There are women across the globe and rural Australia and

0:14:54.687 --> 0:14:58.887
<v Speaker 1>inner city Australia who are now going Wow, thanks to

0:14:58.967 --> 0:15:02.407
<v Speaker 1>that awareness, that education, that information and that stuff that

0:15:02.527 --> 0:15:05.047
<v Speaker 1>is really resonating with me. I'm going to have a

0:15:05.047 --> 0:15:06.927
<v Speaker 1>good hard look at where I'm at with my drinking.

0:15:07.047 --> 0:15:09.967
<v Speaker 1>And I'm not in a rock bottom se scenario. But

0:15:10.047 --> 0:15:12.767
<v Speaker 1>when I think about it, and when I'm really honest

0:15:12.807 --> 0:15:16.887
<v Speaker 1>about it, I can't actually finish my workday without having

0:15:16.967 --> 0:15:20.607
<v Speaker 1>one or two big glasses of wine. Holy crap? Is

0:15:20.647 --> 0:15:23.007
<v Speaker 1>that a thing? Is that a problem? I don't know.

0:15:23.527 --> 0:15:27.367
<v Speaker 1>And what's so interesting about all the conversations we've generated

0:15:28.207 --> 0:15:31.207
<v Speaker 1>is that those people who've had the capacity to have

0:15:31.287 --> 0:15:34.207
<v Speaker 1>a really good, honest look at their relationship with alcohol,

0:15:34.847 --> 0:15:38.167
<v Speaker 1>they're going, I actually don't know how to do life

0:15:38.167 --> 0:15:41.287
<v Speaker 1>without alcohol. Whether it's one glass or one bottle or

0:15:41.287 --> 0:15:45.447
<v Speaker 1>three bottles, as was my case, doesn't matter if alcohol

0:15:45.647 --> 0:15:49.807
<v Speaker 1>is not serving your family, your health, your relationships, your finances,

0:15:49.847 --> 0:15:54.767
<v Speaker 1>your work life, balance, your whatever. And if it's an issue,

0:15:54.807 --> 0:15:57.167
<v Speaker 1>it's an issue, it doesn't have to be a rock

0:15:57.207 --> 0:16:01.167
<v Speaker 1>bottom moment. And so I would hazard a guess, Holly,

0:16:01.247 --> 0:16:04.847
<v Speaker 1>that historically we only looked at it when it was

0:16:04.887 --> 0:16:08.527
<v Speaker 1>a rock bottom crisis moment, because historically we've had this

0:16:09.647 --> 0:16:14.007
<v Speaker 1>booze worshiping mentality in Australia where you are a legend

0:16:14.047 --> 0:16:16.487
<v Speaker 1>if you're Holly or Shanna and you can drink two

0:16:16.527 --> 0:16:19.687
<v Speaker 1>bottles of wine without going into a coma. Or you're

0:16:19.687 --> 0:16:22.407
<v Speaker 1>the blokeout in the backyards at the cattle station who

0:16:22.407 --> 0:16:24.927
<v Speaker 1>can sink a bottle of rump and still be upright

0:16:24.967 --> 0:16:28.007
<v Speaker 1>and chase a beast. It's ridiculous, right. We just have

0:16:28.127 --> 0:16:32.767
<v Speaker 1>this hero worship of grog that has meant people didn't

0:16:32.767 --> 0:16:34.207
<v Speaker 1>seek help before because it.

0:16:34.127 --> 0:16:38.367
<v Speaker 2>Was you know, it's interesting, isn't it, Because it's complicated,

0:16:38.407 --> 0:16:41.767
<v Speaker 2>that hero worship, because as you've said about the party

0:16:41.807 --> 0:16:44.247
<v Speaker 2>girl and how there's a tipping point where she's no

0:16:44.327 --> 0:16:47.487
<v Speaker 2>longer to be celebrated but to be kind of pitied

0:16:47.487 --> 0:16:51.327
<v Speaker 2>and denigrated and maybe taken advantage of where there are

0:16:51.327 --> 0:16:54.527
<v Speaker 2>points in our life where we shift, so you can

0:16:54.567 --> 0:16:57.727
<v Speaker 2>move from party girl to like the mummy wine time idea.

0:16:57.847 --> 0:17:00.407
<v Speaker 2>And I'd love to explore that a bit because what

0:17:00.527 --> 0:17:02.727
<v Speaker 2>I noticed very much in my peer group, and I

0:17:02.727 --> 0:17:05.007
<v Speaker 2>want to be really honest here, I am not sober.

0:17:05.607 --> 0:17:08.127
<v Speaker 2>I do drink. I don't drink to excess, but it

0:17:08.247 --> 0:17:10.447
<v Speaker 2>is part of my social life, there is no question

0:17:10.527 --> 0:17:13.967
<v Speaker 2>about that. And so one of my interests in exploring

0:17:13.967 --> 0:17:16.847
<v Speaker 2>this is that idea of because there's all of my

0:17:16.927 --> 0:17:20.687
<v Speaker 2>peer group around me. We have all grown up with

0:17:20.727 --> 0:17:22.967
<v Speaker 2>alcohol being part of our identity because we're part of

0:17:23.007 --> 0:17:25.847
<v Speaker 2>that binge drinking culture, and we're all sort of stepping

0:17:25.887 --> 0:17:28.927
<v Speaker 2>back and questioning it a bit now and going, oh,

0:17:28.927 --> 0:17:31.567
<v Speaker 2>what does it look like without it? But once you've

0:17:31.607 --> 0:17:34.567
<v Speaker 2>moved out of party girl, sometimes what slips in there

0:17:34.727 --> 0:17:38.407
<v Speaker 2>is wine o' clock. Right, you're not going out anymore necessarily,

0:17:39.007 --> 0:17:41.167
<v Speaker 2>But maybe it's the big glass of wine that helps

0:17:41.207 --> 0:17:45.127
<v Speaker 2>you get the kids into the bath or whatever, or

0:17:45.447 --> 0:17:47.247
<v Speaker 2>it's the big glass of wine that is that. And

0:17:47.287 --> 0:17:50.087
<v Speaker 2>I know that I've had to unpick this that there

0:17:50.167 --> 0:17:54.087
<v Speaker 2>is the marcation point between work day or parenting day

0:17:54.207 --> 0:17:58.167
<v Speaker 2>and me time, relaxed time is a glass of wine.

0:17:58.327 --> 0:17:58.607
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:17:59.127 --> 0:18:01.287
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that the way that we talk about that,

0:18:01.447 --> 0:18:05.007
<v Speaker 2>and the memes and the jokes and their mummy juice

0:18:05.127 --> 0:18:07.647
<v Speaker 2>glasses that you can get and all that kind of stuff,

0:18:07.887 --> 0:18:10.007
<v Speaker 2>do you think that's almost as pun It's just as

0:18:10.087 --> 0:18:13.927
<v Speaker 2>dangerous as the kind of you idolizing the footballer who

0:18:13.927 --> 0:18:16.247
<v Speaker 2>can down twenty five beers on a flight kind of

0:18:16.447 --> 0:18:17.447
<v Speaker 2>drinking culture.

0:18:18.287 --> 0:18:21.047
<v Speaker 1>You know what, I'll just chuck it in here that

0:18:21.407 --> 0:18:24.927
<v Speaker 1>neither myself nor sober in the country. Are anti alcohol

0:18:25.087 --> 0:18:28.887
<v Speaker 1>prohibitionists in our approach? Right? My husband drinks a beer.

0:18:29.287 --> 0:18:31.727
<v Speaker 1>He loves a beer. He's one of these magical, bizarre

0:18:31.767 --> 0:18:34.407
<v Speaker 1>humans who can have one or two drinks and leave

0:18:34.407 --> 0:18:35.967
<v Speaker 1>it at that. Oh my god, I don't know how

0:18:36.007 --> 0:18:38.367
<v Speaker 1>people do it. Right. So anyway, I don't believe in

0:18:38.567 --> 0:18:41.847
<v Speaker 1>prohibition as effective. I don't think it's ever gonna work

0:18:41.887 --> 0:18:44.727
<v Speaker 1>if we go at things with extremes. So anyway, that's

0:18:44.727 --> 0:18:47.567
<v Speaker 1>that out of the way. So I don't judge you,

0:18:47.727 --> 0:18:51.727
<v Speaker 1>and I don't judge you. I don't judge anyone else. However,

0:18:52.327 --> 0:18:56.287
<v Speaker 1>I am always asking whether it's through again as myself

0:18:56.327 --> 0:19:00.207
<v Speaker 1>as a human, or through our social media. I'm always

0:19:00.247 --> 0:19:05.807
<v Speaker 1>saying and challenging people. Can we not glorify deadly drinking? Please?

0:19:06.287 --> 0:19:08.647
<v Speaker 1>Can we not do that with our social media? I'll

0:19:08.647 --> 0:19:12.327
<v Speaker 1>give you a class example, Holly. There's this trend that

0:19:12.447 --> 0:19:13.847
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's been and gone or if

0:19:13.887 --> 0:19:17.127
<v Speaker 1>it's still happening, but you know, there's massive Stanley sippy

0:19:17.127 --> 0:19:21.687
<v Speaker 1>cups and people make a meme where they pour at

0:19:21.767 --> 0:19:24.367
<v Speaker 1>least a bottle of wine into a monstrous cup. They

0:19:24.407 --> 0:19:27.847
<v Speaker 1>cut a tea bag string, right, and drop it and

0:19:27.927 --> 0:19:31.247
<v Speaker 1>so that they're pretending they're having a cuppa, And then

0:19:31.287 --> 0:19:34.047
<v Speaker 1>the meme is that they're at kids sport while not

0:19:34.087 --> 0:19:37.647
<v Speaker 1>sacrificing mummy juice or mummy wine. And I've got to

0:19:37.687 --> 0:19:40.727
<v Speaker 1>tell you, everything in me just wants to curl up

0:19:40.727 --> 0:19:44.727
<v Speaker 1>and die, and I just find myself going, please don't.

0:19:45.007 --> 0:19:47.127
<v Speaker 1>And the worst thing is I got to stick my

0:19:47.167 --> 0:19:49.767
<v Speaker 1>own hand in there and say, that is exactly what

0:19:49.847 --> 0:19:54.047
<v Speaker 1>I would have perpetuated once upon a time. Once upon

0:19:54.087 --> 0:19:57.087
<v Speaker 1>a time, I was the human who if someone else

0:19:57.127 --> 0:19:59.247
<v Speaker 1>sat down next to me and said, no thanks, I'm right,

0:19:59.647 --> 0:20:02.447
<v Speaker 1>I would have said, what you're not drinking? What's wrong

0:20:02.487 --> 0:20:06.487
<v Speaker 1>with you? Are you pregnant? Have you got a problem?

0:20:06.807 --> 0:20:09.767
<v Speaker 1>I was that ignorant person, and I in that and

0:20:09.807 --> 0:20:12.607
<v Speaker 1>I totally claim it because it's exactly what I did.

0:20:13.287 --> 0:20:17.527
<v Speaker 1>And I had no clue at the time how pernicious

0:20:18.007 --> 0:20:22.367
<v Speaker 1>and how much of the culture of idolizing alcohol that

0:20:22.567 --> 0:20:26.607
<v Speaker 1>was feeding into and so on the other side of

0:20:26.607 --> 0:20:29.887
<v Speaker 1>that fence. And when I see, like, I'm okay, I

0:20:29.967 --> 0:20:33.487
<v Speaker 1>haven't wanted a drink in ten years, What a bloody

0:20:33.487 --> 0:20:35.567
<v Speaker 1>beautiful thing that is. I don't care about it, don't

0:20:35.567 --> 0:20:37.447
<v Speaker 1>think about it, don't want it, donate it. I could

0:20:37.487 --> 0:20:40.847
<v Speaker 1>never do this job if that was the torture I

0:20:40.887 --> 0:20:43.887
<v Speaker 1>lived daily. What I do know, though, is that there

0:20:43.887 --> 0:20:47.327
<v Speaker 1>are people who do live with that hell and that

0:20:47.367 --> 0:20:51.207
<v Speaker 1>torture daily. So imagine, imagine one of your best mates

0:20:51.207 --> 0:20:54.407
<v Speaker 1>in your mummy circle is having a silent and deadly

0:20:54.447 --> 0:20:58.807
<v Speaker 1>battle and is quietly attending say AA meetings in city

0:20:59.527 --> 0:21:02.487
<v Speaker 1>and then going to soccer on a weekend and having

0:21:02.527 --> 0:21:05.687
<v Speaker 1>this shoved in their face twenty four to seven. Those

0:21:05.727 --> 0:21:07.807
<v Speaker 1>are the people I think of when I see those

0:21:07.847 --> 0:21:12.127
<v Speaker 1>memes that I just I just feel so bloody sad.

0:21:12.207 --> 0:21:15.847
<v Speaker 1>And I know the intent isn't evil and bad and dreadful.

0:21:15.927 --> 0:21:19.527
<v Speaker 1>I know that I get that, But regardless, the knock

0:21:19.567 --> 0:21:23.167
<v Speaker 1>on effect of that worshiping and the sharing of those

0:21:23.247 --> 0:21:27.567
<v Speaker 1>memes buy some really high level influences. It is contributing

0:21:27.567 --> 0:21:31.727
<v Speaker 1>to harm and there's no question about it. So what

0:21:31.847 --> 0:21:33.647
<v Speaker 1>do we do? How do we change it?

0:21:35.567 --> 0:21:37.687
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to know how you know if you've got

0:21:37.687 --> 0:21:41.447
<v Speaker 2>a problem with alcohol, particularly when wine culture is everywhere

0:21:41.487 --> 0:21:45.167
<v Speaker 2>around you telling you it's normal, that's coming up after

0:21:45.207 --> 0:21:51.047
<v Speaker 2>the break, if you are struggling, Because we've already discussed

0:21:51.087 --> 0:21:52.967
<v Speaker 2>this for most of us, it might take a long

0:21:53.007 --> 0:21:55.607
<v Speaker 2>time for us to because you say, and I heard

0:21:55.647 --> 0:21:58.087
<v Speaker 2>you talk to me about this, that for ten years now,

0:21:58.727 --> 0:22:01.847
<v Speaker 2>since you've become sober, as you say, you haven't been

0:22:01.887 --> 0:22:04.007
<v Speaker 2>battling with it, but you battled for twenty years, like

0:22:04.047 --> 0:22:06.727
<v Speaker 2>as in battling with the urge that you battled for

0:22:06.727 --> 0:22:10.807
<v Speaker 2>twenty years before that. Right, So, people who are questioning

0:22:10.847 --> 0:22:13.327
<v Speaker 2>their drinking or realizing that it's making their life hard,

0:22:13.367 --> 0:22:15.407
<v Speaker 2>but they're kind of trying to picture what life might

0:22:15.447 --> 0:22:17.607
<v Speaker 2>look like on the other side. And I really want

0:22:17.647 --> 0:22:20.087
<v Speaker 2>to talk to you about that in a minute. If

0:22:20.087 --> 0:22:22.887
<v Speaker 2>they're seeing everywhere around them and I'm sure that I'm

0:22:22.927 --> 0:22:25.607
<v Speaker 2>guilty of this in my social circle. Oh I really

0:22:25.647 --> 0:22:28.247
<v Speaker 2>need a wine. Oh time to you know the mummy

0:22:28.287 --> 0:22:31.287
<v Speaker 2>paw that's this big and all those things. It's like, oh, okay,

0:22:31.327 --> 0:22:33.287
<v Speaker 2>maybe I don't have a problem. Maybe it's all fine.

0:22:33.327 --> 0:22:36.047
<v Speaker 2>Maybe everybody's like this. It's like a because you're always

0:22:36.047 --> 0:22:40.927
<v Speaker 2>in a battle of justification, right with your own behaviors

0:22:40.927 --> 0:22:44.127
<v Speaker 2>that you kind of know deep down are not serving

0:22:44.167 --> 0:22:47.727
<v Speaker 2>you anymore, but you're looking for validation at every turn.

0:22:48.407 --> 0:22:52.087
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, And that's such a common thing. Something that's

0:22:52.207 --> 0:22:55.407
<v Speaker 1>really encouraging. That I would love your listeners to understand

0:22:55.487 --> 0:23:00.087
<v Speaker 1>is that when we all choose to make the smallest changes,

0:23:00.447 --> 0:23:02.327
<v Speaker 1>you will see me bang on about these through our

0:23:02.327 --> 0:23:06.087
<v Speaker 1>socials as well. We're not anti alcohol, we're just anti

0:23:06.127 --> 0:23:09.047
<v Speaker 1>alcohol harm. And when we make small changes, whether it's

0:23:09.047 --> 0:23:12.927
<v Speaker 1>through social media or for instance, here's an example, Let's

0:23:12.967 --> 0:23:16.887
<v Speaker 1>say Ladies Day at the Rugby is coming, almost inevitably,

0:23:16.967 --> 0:23:19.567
<v Speaker 1>what we will see is an invitation that's gets dropped

0:23:19.567 --> 0:23:22.127
<v Speaker 1>into the stratosphere that says all you can drink tickets

0:23:22.127 --> 0:23:26.047
<v Speaker 1>two hundred dollars, blah blah blah. When we see a

0:23:26.127 --> 0:23:30.207
<v Speaker 1>change as simple as drinks tickets two hundred dollars, non

0:23:30.247 --> 0:23:34.087
<v Speaker 1>alcoholic options fifty five dollars or one hundred dollars or

0:23:34.087 --> 0:23:36.367
<v Speaker 1>whatever the hell it might be, there's suddenly there's this

0:23:36.927 --> 0:23:41.367
<v Speaker 1>inclusion for a non drinker. How powerful, how simple, how effective?

0:23:41.847 --> 0:23:45.047
<v Speaker 1>But because once again, at a societal level, at almost

0:23:45.047 --> 0:23:48.327
<v Speaker 1>every turn, it's in our faces that the expectation is

0:23:48.367 --> 0:23:51.887
<v Speaker 1>holy and Shanner and every single person is drinking, drinking, drinking, drinking.

0:23:52.487 --> 0:23:54.247
<v Speaker 1>When you're the one not drinking, you feel like an

0:23:54.247 --> 0:23:59.047
<v Speaker 1>absolute friggin weirdo, and you already are struggling with this battle,

0:23:59.087 --> 0:24:02.087
<v Speaker 1>as you said before, and for some people it's been

0:24:02.167 --> 0:24:05.367
<v Speaker 1>going on for a decade and they're still working it

0:24:05.407 --> 0:24:09.327
<v Speaker 1>out and they're floundering and they're struggling. And instead of

0:24:09.327 --> 0:24:14.727
<v Speaker 1>of having people at every corner trying to metaphorically jam

0:24:14.767 --> 0:24:18.527
<v Speaker 1>alcohol down our necks, if we've got leaders and people

0:24:19.207 --> 0:24:22.047
<v Speaker 1>and influencers saying if you're not drinking, it's okay, it's

0:24:22.087 --> 0:24:24.367
<v Speaker 1>okay to say no, it's all good. Have one of these,

0:24:24.447 --> 0:24:27.647
<v Speaker 1>have a zero ol beer or have a sparkling water.

0:24:28.927 --> 0:24:32.647
<v Speaker 1>Suddenly that terror that I'm feeling as a human contemplating

0:24:32.647 --> 0:24:37.327
<v Speaker 1>where I'm at is massively reduced, and it's normalized, and

0:24:37.367 --> 0:24:41.847
<v Speaker 1>there's just so many ways we can make positive inroads.

0:24:42.167 --> 0:24:45.167
<v Speaker 2>That's a really interesting point about things like that. It's like,

0:24:45.207 --> 0:24:48.047
<v Speaker 2>if it's right from the get go, or you cannot drink,

0:24:48.087 --> 0:24:50.367
<v Speaker 2>and it's this one hundred percent. And it's interesting because

0:24:50.407 --> 0:24:53.567
<v Speaker 2>I think generations younger than us a nailing this. You know,

0:24:53.567 --> 0:24:56.727
<v Speaker 2>they're saying that non alcoholic drinks is the fastest growing

0:24:56.767 --> 0:24:57.967
<v Speaker 2>sector and all that stuff.

0:24:58.327 --> 0:25:02.847
<v Speaker 1>Can I quickly add if someone is in the contemplation phase,

0:25:02.887 --> 0:25:06.607
<v Speaker 1>they're reducing them moderating their switching drinks whatever whatever you

0:25:06.727 --> 0:25:09.247
<v Speaker 1>mentioned earlier, Holly, and I think this is a super

0:25:09.247 --> 0:25:13.487
<v Speaker 1>important one. To have alcohol free or zero elk beer,

0:25:13.527 --> 0:25:18.727
<v Speaker 1>wine and spirits. Can you please just be super careful

0:25:18.767 --> 0:25:22.207
<v Speaker 1>with those if that's your choice. And I say that

0:25:22.367 --> 0:25:26.047
<v Speaker 1>because those of us who've battled and are at the

0:25:26.367 --> 0:25:32.047
<v Speaker 1>more problematic addiction stage of alcohol, right when we're consuming

0:25:32.087 --> 0:25:35.447
<v Speaker 1>things that replicate perfectly the taste and the smell and

0:25:35.487 --> 0:25:38.807
<v Speaker 1>the ritual of alcohol at five pm, where do you reckon?

0:25:38.847 --> 0:25:42.687
<v Speaker 1>That can go very very quickly. So just be really

0:25:42.767 --> 0:25:46.607
<v Speaker 1>mindful of falling for the marketing behind those drinks, which

0:25:46.647 --> 0:25:50.807
<v Speaker 1>is extremely cleverly designed to say, if you're chasing some moderation,

0:25:51.367 --> 0:25:54.207
<v Speaker 1>do this, try that, do this, Just be super careful

0:25:54.287 --> 0:25:55.647
<v Speaker 1>of replicating alcohol.

0:25:55.807 --> 0:25:58.327
<v Speaker 2>Do they have a place in helping you in a

0:25:58.407 --> 0:26:01.847
<v Speaker 2>social transition? Do you think, I mean some people, for

0:26:01.967 --> 0:26:04.367
<v Speaker 2>some people who have that kind of issue of I'm

0:26:04.367 --> 0:26:06.847
<v Speaker 2>standing around at a barbecue, at least I've got a

0:26:06.927 --> 0:26:07.687
<v Speaker 2>drink in my hand.

0:26:07.927 --> 0:26:11.047
<v Speaker 1>They absolutely do for some And so the whole thing

0:26:11.087 --> 0:26:14.487
<v Speaker 1>with the spectrum of alcohol addiction, zero ELK drinks, etc.

0:26:14.847 --> 0:26:17.287
<v Speaker 1>There's no black and white. There's only a million shades

0:26:17.327 --> 0:26:20.727
<v Speaker 1>of gray. I could tell you firsthand of endless stories

0:26:20.767 --> 0:26:24.327
<v Speaker 1>of people who are at that other problematic end towards

0:26:24.367 --> 0:26:27.727
<v Speaker 1>you know, the chronic addiction, end stage addiction, and they've

0:26:27.767 --> 0:26:30.727
<v Speaker 1>turned to zero elk imitation drinks and they've had a

0:26:30.727 --> 0:26:34.167
<v Speaker 1>relapse that they haven't come back from. They're really, really,

0:26:34.207 --> 0:26:36.647
<v Speaker 1>really problematic in that regard. They have a place for

0:26:36.767 --> 0:26:41.127
<v Speaker 1>some Absolutely they really do. If in doubt have a

0:26:41.167 --> 0:26:44.847
<v Speaker 1>sparkling soda, water and lemon. Don't go near stuff that

0:26:44.927 --> 0:26:48.767
<v Speaker 1>imitates alcohol is just it can be very, very dangerous.

0:26:49.007 --> 0:26:50.967
<v Speaker 1>I'm ten years in and I will not touch them

0:26:50.967 --> 0:26:53.647
<v Speaker 1>with a barge pole. Absolutely will not go near them.

0:26:54.487 --> 0:26:57.527
<v Speaker 2>Seana, if someone's listening to this and they know that

0:26:57.567 --> 0:27:00.327
<v Speaker 2>their relationship with alcohol is tipping or has tipped into

0:27:00.407 --> 0:27:04.167
<v Speaker 2>unhealthy territory, and they're saying to themselves, but you know,

0:27:04.287 --> 0:27:06.927
<v Speaker 2>I can do dry July if I have to, or

0:27:07.007 --> 0:27:10.007
<v Speaker 2>I don't drink Monday to Wednesday, or I don't or

0:27:10.047 --> 0:27:12.407
<v Speaker 2>you know, I only drink blood. You know, I think

0:27:12.407 --> 0:27:17.127
<v Speaker 2>we put a lot of excuses justifications things around our drinking,

0:27:17.247 --> 0:27:20.447
<v Speaker 2>even if we deep down know We've talked about how

0:27:20.447 --> 0:27:23.847
<v Speaker 2>there's a sort of a spectrum, but is there a

0:27:23.967 --> 0:27:26.847
<v Speaker 2>question you should ask yourself to know whether or not

0:27:26.967 --> 0:27:28.687
<v Speaker 2>you do need to put your hand up for help?

0:27:28.767 --> 0:27:29.847
<v Speaker 2>Or is it not that simple?

0:27:30.287 --> 0:27:31.807
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what I used to do? I used

0:27:31.847 --> 0:27:33.367
<v Speaker 1>to google? Am I an alcohol?

0:27:33.847 --> 0:27:35.887
<v Speaker 2>About a lot of people listening to this A.

0:27:36.047 --> 0:27:39.247
<v Speaker 1>Lot of people, right, I'll tell you the litmus test, Holly.

0:27:39.327 --> 0:27:42.247
<v Speaker 1>That seems to be pretty fail proof. If you think

0:27:42.287 --> 0:27:44.767
<v Speaker 1>there's a problem, there's probably a problem.

0:27:44.887 --> 0:27:45.127
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:27:45.167 --> 0:27:50.047
<v Speaker 1>Honestly, people without an issue or problem with alcohol don't

0:27:50.087 --> 0:27:52.447
<v Speaker 1>ask themselves if they have a problem or an issue

0:27:52.487 --> 0:27:54.647
<v Speaker 1>with alcohol. It's that simple.

0:27:54.807 --> 0:27:57.447
<v Speaker 2>If you're in your forties fifties and you're realizing that

0:27:57.487 --> 0:28:00.607
<v Speaker 2>you need to address alcohol, likely alcohol has been part

0:28:00.647 --> 0:28:03.367
<v Speaker 2>of your identity, as we've already discussed in various ways,

0:28:03.367 --> 0:28:06.647
<v Speaker 2>whether that's party girl, mum culture, whatever, it is wine

0:28:06.687 --> 0:28:09.607
<v Speaker 2>time for a long time. And one of the things

0:28:09.607 --> 0:28:12.367
<v Speaker 2>that I know to be true is this thing of like,

0:28:12.487 --> 0:28:14.447
<v Speaker 2>but who am I without drinking?

0:28:14.527 --> 0:28:14.607
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:28:14.727 --> 0:28:18.167
<v Speaker 2>How do I celebrate without drinking? Alcohol has been with

0:28:18.247 --> 0:28:22.927
<v Speaker 2>me at every birthday, party, every wedding, every summer holiday.

0:28:23.287 --> 0:28:26.927
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like it's become in our culture and

0:28:27.007 --> 0:28:30.407
<v Speaker 2>in some other cultures around the world, it's synonymous with celebration,

0:28:30.607 --> 0:28:34.127
<v Speaker 2>with relaxation, with having good time. And I imagine that

0:28:34.127 --> 0:28:36.607
<v Speaker 2>this must be particularly tricky in the bush in a

0:28:36.647 --> 0:28:39.247
<v Speaker 2>way because pubs are kind of like the community center,

0:28:39.367 --> 0:28:42.047
<v Speaker 2>aren't they. They're like, they're the place where everybody goes.

0:28:42.087 --> 0:28:45.327
<v Speaker 2>It's where you meet people, it's where everybody connects. So

0:28:45.927 --> 0:28:48.607
<v Speaker 2>what do you say to people who are struggling with

0:28:48.607 --> 0:28:50.727
<v Speaker 2>that thing of like, but who even am I if

0:28:50.767 --> 0:28:53.487
<v Speaker 2>I'm not drinking? And can I be in the world?

0:28:54.087 --> 0:28:56.327
<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to tackle this one as a city

0:28:56.447 --> 0:29:00.007
<v Speaker 1>versus rural issue because this is where the really obvious

0:29:00.047 --> 0:29:03.247
<v Speaker 1>gap happens. So let's say you, as Holly, decide you're

0:29:03.287 --> 0:29:07.407
<v Speaker 1>going to become a human who doesn't drink, and you

0:29:08.007 --> 0:29:11.047
<v Speaker 1>have the option. Let's say if you're in let's say

0:29:11.047 --> 0:29:15.207
<v Speaker 1>you're in Bondi or inner city Sydney, right, and it's

0:29:15.287 --> 0:29:20.287
<v Speaker 1>weird for you in your yoga class or your surfing group,

0:29:20.607 --> 0:29:24.167
<v Speaker 1>or your book club or whatever. Course, everyone's a raging

0:29:24.207 --> 0:29:25.807
<v Speaker 1>piss head book.

0:29:25.607 --> 0:29:28.127
<v Speaker 2>Clubs, right, and that's another place where everyone goes, Oh

0:29:28.167 --> 0:29:29.407
<v Speaker 2>you mean wine club.

0:29:29.207 --> 0:29:33.367
<v Speaker 1>Like, yeah, exactly exactly. So Holly decides, you know what,

0:29:33.447 --> 0:29:35.807
<v Speaker 1>I actually can't do this because there's too much grog.

0:29:35.847 --> 0:29:40.087
<v Speaker 1>In all of these situations, the beauty is you might

0:29:40.127 --> 0:29:42.687
<v Speaker 1>be able to go one suburb over and find a

0:29:42.727 --> 0:29:46.407
<v Speaker 1>new surf club, a new book club, a new yoga class.

0:29:46.887 --> 0:29:49.567
<v Speaker 1>You might actually be able to find this plethora of

0:29:49.647 --> 0:29:52.327
<v Speaker 1>face to face recovery support meetings because you're in the

0:29:52.407 --> 0:29:55.847
<v Speaker 1>city where there is such a notion as anonymity. Praise

0:29:55.927 --> 0:30:02.487
<v Speaker 1>be how wonderful you suddenly have choices, services, support, options, connection.

0:30:03.327 --> 0:30:07.927
<v Speaker 1>Now let's take case studies Shannawan, a woman who has

0:30:08.007 --> 0:30:11.447
<v Speaker 1>indeed had alcohol heart and soul and center of her identity,

0:30:11.807 --> 0:30:15.727
<v Speaker 1>her whole life as the wild party girl. Who is

0:30:15.767 --> 0:30:20.607
<v Speaker 1>she without alcohol? Well, bloody good question. I'm still figuring

0:30:20.647 --> 0:30:23.167
<v Speaker 1>that out ten years down the track. And what I

0:30:23.207 --> 0:30:26.247
<v Speaker 1>will tell you is it in rural and regional and

0:30:26.327 --> 0:30:30.007
<v Speaker 1>even some of our bigger regional cities, right, it is

0:30:30.167 --> 0:30:35.167
<v Speaker 1>an incredibly difficult journey for people because we do not

0:30:35.287 --> 0:30:37.887
<v Speaker 1>have the option of being anonymous. We do not have

0:30:37.927 --> 0:30:42.207
<v Speaker 1>the option of changing our crowd, our gathering places, our

0:30:42.247 --> 0:30:46.127
<v Speaker 1>friends groups, our schools, yoga classes. Whatever. What you get

0:30:46.287 --> 0:30:48.367
<v Speaker 1>is what you get, and you've got it for life.

0:30:48.407 --> 0:30:51.647
<v Speaker 1>And so you have to learn to be a sober

0:30:51.727 --> 0:30:55.207
<v Speaker 1>human in that environment, or you can pack up and

0:30:55.247 --> 0:30:58.447
<v Speaker 1>start a brand new life somewhere else. Those are your

0:30:58.447 --> 0:30:59.167
<v Speaker 1>two options.

0:30:59.407 --> 0:31:04.287
<v Speaker 2>I've heard you call that pulling a geographical.

0:31:03.207 --> 0:31:07.047
<v Speaker 1>Pulling a geographical right, and that's really not ideal, and

0:31:07.087 --> 0:31:10.767
<v Speaker 1>it breaks my heart that that should even be away.

0:31:11.127 --> 0:31:13.207
<v Speaker 1>Someone has to learn to deal with this. But I've

0:31:13.247 --> 0:31:18.367
<v Speaker 1>seen it happen because a person newly sober is struggling

0:31:18.407 --> 0:31:22.487
<v Speaker 1>so badly to find their feet and be accepted now

0:31:22.527 --> 0:31:24.447
<v Speaker 1>as a non drinking person, that they go this is

0:31:24.487 --> 0:31:26.727
<v Speaker 1>so hard. I'm just going to start again. And I

0:31:27.527 --> 0:31:29.967
<v Speaker 1>have to confess that when I gave up alcohol, I

0:31:29.967 --> 0:31:32.887
<v Speaker 1>said to my husband, mate, I need to leave this town.

0:31:33.167 --> 0:31:34.727
<v Speaker 1>I need to leave this place. I got to go.

0:31:34.767 --> 0:31:37.007
<v Speaker 1>I gotta go. I just don't want to be here

0:31:37.047 --> 0:31:40.327
<v Speaker 1>anymore because everyone thinks this, and everyone's been gossiping about

0:31:40.327 --> 0:31:43.847
<v Speaker 1>me anyway, and you know, God Almighty, the things that

0:31:43.887 --> 0:31:47.287
<v Speaker 1>I heard about myself, and it's pretty hardcore.

0:31:47.447 --> 0:31:49.767
<v Speaker 2>It must be terrible. And also all those people are

0:31:49.807 --> 0:31:51.527
<v Speaker 2>still there, and they've got a picture in the head

0:31:51.567 --> 0:31:54.087
<v Speaker 2>of who you are, and you've got to almost convince

0:31:54.447 --> 0:31:57.047
<v Speaker 2>them or yourself that you're not that person anymore.

0:31:57.527 --> 0:32:00.927
<v Speaker 1>And my beautiful, beautiful, wise husband said to me, sweetheart,

0:32:00.967 --> 0:32:05.047
<v Speaker 1>you've been running from yourself and doing geographicals your whole life.

0:32:05.287 --> 0:32:09.087
<v Speaker 1>You have to face yourself. God damn it. That so

0:32:09.247 --> 0:32:12.167
<v Speaker 1>annoying and so wise. I'm not saying that's the anset

0:32:12.287 --> 0:32:14.487
<v Speaker 1>for everyone, but that was what we decided to do,

0:32:15.447 --> 0:32:17.887
<v Speaker 1>and it was an easy holly for me to face

0:32:17.967 --> 0:32:21.087
<v Speaker 1>my community that i'd been. I mean, here's the irony.

0:32:21.127 --> 0:32:23.367
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I was the person everyone shouted drinks to

0:32:23.487 --> 0:32:25.887
<v Speaker 1>because I performed like a monkey. Yeah, And that was

0:32:25.927 --> 0:32:27.847
<v Speaker 1>all fun and games, wasn't it. But when it was

0:32:27.847 --> 0:32:31.327
<v Speaker 1>a problem, I was mocked and shunned and talked about.

0:32:31.367 --> 0:32:34.367
<v Speaker 1>And that's the paradox of what happens with drinkers. We're

0:32:34.407 --> 0:32:38.327
<v Speaker 1>funny one minute and we're ostracized the next. And crueler

0:32:38.407 --> 0:32:42.687
<v Speaker 1>again is that we can be ostracized further socially and

0:32:42.767 --> 0:32:45.887
<v Speaker 1>not just geographically, because we've chosen to be so bad.

0:32:45.887 --> 0:32:50.047
<v Speaker 1>And that's uncomfortable because in rural communities people are massive,

0:32:50.047 --> 0:32:52.247
<v Speaker 1>massive drinkers, and they don't know what to do with me.

0:32:52.967 --> 0:32:55.407
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to sound like I'm full of myself here.

0:32:55.447 --> 0:32:57.247
<v Speaker 1>That's the last thing I ever want to sound like.

0:32:57.287 --> 0:33:01.007
<v Speaker 1>But I would like to think that the advocacy that

0:33:01.087 --> 0:33:04.207
<v Speaker 1>I have been doing in the rural space has provided

0:33:04.287 --> 0:33:06.687
<v Speaker 1>a beacon. I guess for a lot of women who've

0:33:06.687 --> 0:33:09.847
<v Speaker 1>come after me to know how to navigate is to

0:33:10.327 --> 0:33:13.927
<v Speaker 1>better manage that situation, because it is brutal and it's

0:33:14.007 --> 0:33:16.607
<v Speaker 1>really really hard. And I can say, hand on heart

0:33:16.647 --> 0:33:19.567
<v Speaker 1>it is easier for those who've come behind because a

0:33:19.647 --> 0:33:23.167
<v Speaker 1>decade of sober in the country and conversations and then

0:33:23.167 --> 0:33:25.927
<v Speaker 1>of course Australian of the Year and Marie Claire stuff

0:33:25.967 --> 0:33:28.487
<v Speaker 1>and whatnot, there's been a lot of media, there's been

0:33:28.527 --> 0:33:31.567
<v Speaker 1>a lot of publicity in our message has been heard

0:33:31.687 --> 0:33:35.007
<v Speaker 1>nationally and so thank God for that because my only

0:33:35.127 --> 0:33:41.087
<v Speaker 1>wish ever has been that someone someone else like me,

0:33:41.207 --> 0:33:44.847
<v Speaker 1>would not go through the hell I've experienced in becoming

0:33:44.927 --> 0:33:46.007
<v Speaker 1>sober in the country.

0:33:47.207 --> 0:33:49.887
<v Speaker 2>All Right, so maybe you've decided you do need to

0:33:49.927 --> 0:33:53.167
<v Speaker 2>do something about your drinking, but I want to know

0:33:53.207 --> 0:33:56.087
<v Speaker 2>what that looks like on the other side. If alcohol

0:33:56.087 --> 0:33:59.807
<v Speaker 2>has always been your fun, your socializing, your release, your

0:33:59.887 --> 0:34:04.207
<v Speaker 2>coping mechanism, how does life work without it? That's coming

0:34:04.287 --> 0:34:10.847
<v Speaker 2>up next? Has it changed? Like obviously you know that

0:34:10.927 --> 0:34:12.847
<v Speaker 2>the work that you've done has changed it for people

0:34:12.887 --> 0:34:15.767
<v Speaker 2>come behind you, But you now living almost a decade

0:34:16.487 --> 0:34:19.767
<v Speaker 2>as the sober person, do you still have to struggle

0:34:19.807 --> 0:34:22.287
<v Speaker 2>with all that stuff in terms of other people's perceptions

0:34:22.367 --> 0:34:24.447
<v Speaker 2>or have people Because what I'm thinking about is a

0:34:24.447 --> 0:34:27.647
<v Speaker 2>woman listening to this who's imagining her social life and

0:34:27.687 --> 0:34:30.087
<v Speaker 2>her social group and her whether it's in the country,

0:34:30.087 --> 0:34:33.047
<v Speaker 2>whether it's in the city, small town, whatever, and she's

0:34:33.087 --> 0:34:36.487
<v Speaker 2>thinking it's going to be so hard. Does it get easier?

0:34:36.607 --> 0:34:40.047
<v Speaker 2>Do people give you a frickin' break after a while

0:34:40.807 --> 0:34:43.367
<v Speaker 2>and support you rather than make things harder.

0:34:44.207 --> 0:34:46.167
<v Speaker 1>What we hear again and again and again through the

0:34:46.207 --> 0:34:49.127
<v Speaker 1>eight hundred people, just even in our peer support network,

0:34:49.327 --> 0:34:51.767
<v Speaker 1>those who get some runs on the board and get

0:34:51.767 --> 0:34:54.567
<v Speaker 1>a year or two under their belt, the common refrain

0:34:54.727 --> 0:35:00.607
<v Speaker 1>is it gets easier. Hang in there, have hope, don't

0:35:00.647 --> 0:35:04.207
<v Speaker 1>give up, because what eventually happens. And I'll tell you

0:35:04.247 --> 0:35:07.767
<v Speaker 1>what if you ever want to know, if you ever

0:35:07.807 --> 0:35:11.767
<v Speaker 1>want to know who you're truest, truest friends are get sober,

0:35:12.807 --> 0:35:16.567
<v Speaker 1>Get sober, and watch what happens. And again I'll use

0:35:16.607 --> 0:35:19.207
<v Speaker 1>myself as an example. I am a case in point.

0:35:20.047 --> 0:35:24.367
<v Speaker 1>Very quickly, once we choose sobriety, two things happen our

0:35:24.407 --> 0:35:27.647
<v Speaker 1>friends and families and those who really do care about

0:35:27.647 --> 0:35:31.887
<v Speaker 1>our welfare, our mental health and us as humans can

0:35:31.967 --> 0:35:35.487
<v Speaker 1>do nothing but get around us and support us quickly

0:35:35.687 --> 0:35:38.327
<v Speaker 1>because they're so relieved that we're seeking to change, right,

0:35:38.367 --> 0:35:41.167
<v Speaker 1>because most of us who give up had an unhealthy

0:35:41.167 --> 0:35:43.287
<v Speaker 1>thing going on, or in my case, we were at

0:35:43.407 --> 0:35:46.327
<v Speaker 1>absolute rock bottom, whatever end of the spectrum it is.

0:35:47.047 --> 0:35:49.567
<v Speaker 1>When people see someone trying to do something to better

0:35:49.607 --> 0:35:53.967
<v Speaker 1>their health, their circumstances, whatever, true friends wrap around. Right.

0:35:55.127 --> 0:35:59.647
<v Speaker 1>Often big drinking buddies and those upon who we relied

0:35:59.647 --> 0:36:03.047
<v Speaker 1>on to just have big drinking sessions and no meaningful,

0:36:03.367 --> 0:36:07.127
<v Speaker 1>real interaction beyond just getting on the source, they drop away.

0:36:07.727 --> 0:36:10.007
<v Speaker 1>And at first that hurts because we used to think

0:36:10.087 --> 0:36:14.247
<v Speaker 1>upon those groups as our friends. But it's pretty evident

0:36:14.647 --> 0:36:18.607
<v Speaker 1>quickly that that friendship group was actually based on nothing

0:36:18.607 --> 0:36:23.007
<v Speaker 1>more than just getting drunk. Yes, there's nothing meaningful behind it,

0:36:23.047 --> 0:36:27.167
<v Speaker 1>and that's pretty brutal and confronting once you're seeing the

0:36:27.207 --> 0:36:29.807
<v Speaker 1>truth of that. But myself and many many many before

0:36:29.927 --> 0:36:34.007
<v Speaker 1>and after me, have seen quickly that wow, they were

0:36:34.007 --> 0:36:34.727
<v Speaker 1>not my mates.

0:36:35.087 --> 0:36:38.967
<v Speaker 2>You know that is so relevant, This idea that like,

0:36:39.047 --> 0:36:40.567
<v Speaker 2>but this is what me and my friends do. We

0:36:40.647 --> 0:36:43.007
<v Speaker 2>get together and we drink and that's what we do, right,

0:36:43.687 --> 0:36:46.047
<v Speaker 2>And I think a lot of women don't necessarily mean me.

0:36:46.127 --> 0:36:49.007
<v Speaker 2>I mean this is but although sometimes indeed we do.

0:36:49.407 --> 0:36:52.367
<v Speaker 2>But the idea that what would we do without? Is

0:36:52.367 --> 0:36:54.767
<v Speaker 2>there fun to be had? Can life still be fun

0:36:54.807 --> 0:36:56.727
<v Speaker 2>in midlife? With our alcohol shower.

0:36:57.207 --> 0:37:00.607
<v Speaker 1>Bloody oath? It can be? Holly? Do you know what?

0:37:01.047 --> 0:37:03.247
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god? And again I'll use our group as

0:37:03.287 --> 0:37:07.167
<v Speaker 1>a reference point. I mean, we see people dropping comments

0:37:07.207 --> 0:37:09.847
<v Speaker 1>and they might have been struggling for a couple of years,

0:37:09.847 --> 0:37:13.207
<v Speaker 1>and eventually when they come through the hard slog, and

0:37:13.247 --> 0:37:15.327
<v Speaker 1>there is a hard slog for a lot of these people,

0:37:15.647 --> 0:37:19.807
<v Speaker 1>it's rarely an overnight, you know, transition, right, But when

0:37:19.847 --> 0:37:21.887
<v Speaker 1>they come out the other side of all that hardship,

0:37:22.607 --> 0:37:24.567
<v Speaker 1>people are suddenly going, oh my god, you guys, It's

0:37:24.607 --> 0:37:26.287
<v Speaker 1>been two years since I've had a drink, and I've

0:37:26.327 --> 0:37:29.247
<v Speaker 1>saved like god knows how many tens of thousands of

0:37:29.287 --> 0:37:33.847
<v Speaker 1>dollars and I've started running. And guess what my kids think.

0:37:33.927 --> 0:37:37.207
<v Speaker 1>I'm an awesome mum because I'm present and i am

0:37:37.287 --> 0:37:40.847
<v Speaker 1>here and I'm available and I'm not useless every Sunday.

0:37:41.047 --> 0:37:43.007
<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't say that as though every mummy is that

0:37:43.007 --> 0:37:45.927
<v Speaker 1>it hasn't dream right, you know what I'm saying. I'm

0:37:46.007 --> 0:37:50.687
<v Speaker 1>speaking generally. Or we see dads dropping in and saying

0:37:50.687 --> 0:37:52.847
<v Speaker 1>I've lost my beer gut and I've got a six pack,

0:37:52.887 --> 0:37:55.087
<v Speaker 1>and my wife reckons I'm the shes look at me,

0:37:55.207 --> 0:37:59.767
<v Speaker 1>go it's gorgeous. We see so many beautiful, beautiful stories

0:37:59.847 --> 0:38:06.287
<v Speaker 1>of families restored, health, restored, lives actually restored. And I

0:38:06.327 --> 0:38:08.527
<v Speaker 1>feel like I sound like an evangelist here, but I

0:38:08.567 --> 0:38:11.487
<v Speaker 1>feel like an evangelists sometimes. I want to stand on

0:38:11.527 --> 0:38:13.127
<v Speaker 1>the top of the mountain and say, you guys, you

0:38:13.127 --> 0:38:17.927
<v Speaker 1>don't understand. What's on the other side is amazing. There's happiness,

0:38:18.247 --> 0:38:23.287
<v Speaker 1>there's clarity, there's presence of mind. Yeah, there's fitness. There's

0:38:23.367 --> 0:38:27.247
<v Speaker 1>all of these wonderful, wonderful things. I think that in

0:38:27.327 --> 0:38:31.807
<v Speaker 1>sobriety circles what can happen is because there is so

0:38:31.967 --> 0:38:34.767
<v Speaker 1>much hardship and that a focus on the bad things

0:38:34.807 --> 0:38:38.087
<v Speaker 1>and the rock bottom, that we forget the magical moments

0:38:38.127 --> 0:38:40.847
<v Speaker 1>that come. I have to tell you, whenever I do

0:38:40.927 --> 0:38:44.567
<v Speaker 1>a keynote, I always finish with that point and I say,

0:38:44.807 --> 0:38:47.567
<v Speaker 1>you know, for magical Unicorn was to land on my

0:38:47.647 --> 0:38:50.567
<v Speaker 1>shoulder and say, Shanna, wan, I grant thee the wish

0:38:50.607 --> 0:38:54.927
<v Speaker 1>to drink like a normal human from henceforth. Ping I'd say, no,

0:38:55.047 --> 0:38:57.287
<v Speaker 1>you bugger off and take that wish and stick it

0:38:57.327 --> 0:39:01.407
<v Speaker 1>in your jumper. Thanks, mister unicorn. I literally would never

0:39:01.487 --> 0:39:05.647
<v Speaker 1>go back to alcohol for all the money in the world, ever, ever, ever.

0:39:06.327 --> 0:39:09.687
<v Speaker 1>So you know, I think it's super important that people

0:39:09.767 --> 0:39:14.007
<v Speaker 1>listening who are in that contemplation phase understand the good

0:39:14.007 --> 0:39:16.967
<v Speaker 1>stuff that can happen and the change. You know what

0:39:17.087 --> 0:39:20.207
<v Speaker 1>I see again and again, Holly, is that friendship groups

0:39:20.247 --> 0:39:24.327
<v Speaker 1>and what not change drastically, and so I'm no longer

0:39:24.367 --> 0:39:28.087
<v Speaker 1>surrounded by humans on the grog. I'm surrounded by people

0:39:28.167 --> 0:39:32.607
<v Speaker 1>in my friendship groups who are very health focused, motivated,

0:39:33.007 --> 0:39:36.967
<v Speaker 1>They're achieving things, they're doing things. They're very inspiring people

0:39:37.007 --> 0:39:37.287
<v Speaker 1>to me.

0:39:38.047 --> 0:39:41.087
<v Speaker 2>I'd love to ask you, Shan before we go, if

0:39:41.087 --> 0:39:43.807
<v Speaker 2>somebody is listening to this, and it's not necessarily themselves

0:39:43.847 --> 0:39:46.047
<v Speaker 2>that they're worried about, but somebody in their lives who

0:39:46.047 --> 0:39:50.807
<v Speaker 2>they love, who they know, is struggling, or they can

0:39:50.847 --> 0:39:53.847
<v Speaker 2>see that alcohol is their relationship with alcohol has become

0:39:53.887 --> 0:39:57.047
<v Speaker 2>unhealthy or has been for a while. What can you

0:39:57.087 --> 0:39:58.647
<v Speaker 2>do and should you do anything?

0:39:59.647 --> 0:40:02.767
<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh, it's a really important question and it's probably

0:40:02.767 --> 0:40:06.527
<v Speaker 1>one of the most heartbreaking things that I see until

0:40:06.567 --> 0:40:10.087
<v Speaker 1>with on a daily basis in communities or just witness

0:40:10.447 --> 0:40:14.047
<v Speaker 1>and it is our most frequently asked question. The answer is,

0:40:14.327 --> 0:40:19.967
<v Speaker 1>you definitely need to, above all else, equip yourself with knowledge,

0:40:20.567 --> 0:40:26.007
<v Speaker 1>information tools, and an education and awareness. If you are

0:40:26.087 --> 0:40:29.527
<v Speaker 1>someone who cares about a human struggling, whether it's just

0:40:29.607 --> 0:40:32.567
<v Speaker 1>with a bit of red flag drinking or end stage addiction,

0:40:33.847 --> 0:40:35.847
<v Speaker 1>like jump on our website for starters and have a

0:40:35.847 --> 0:40:38.647
<v Speaker 1>look at the family and friends section or just google

0:40:38.687 --> 0:40:41.607
<v Speaker 1>what do I do if someone I love is you know,

0:40:41.687 --> 0:40:47.047
<v Speaker 1>red flag or problematic drinking? Because oftentimes, with the very

0:40:47.087 --> 0:40:51.207
<v Speaker 1>best of intentions, we do all the wrong things right,

0:40:51.807 --> 0:40:55.447
<v Speaker 1>my husband did the things that are common mistakes, covering

0:40:55.487 --> 0:40:59.687
<v Speaker 1>for me, lying for me, even sometimes enabling me unwittingly,

0:41:00.047 --> 0:41:02.567
<v Speaker 1>and there's a lot of contention around that topic of

0:41:02.687 --> 0:41:05.927
<v Speaker 1>enabling even so we don't have enough time to even

0:41:06.047 --> 0:41:10.607
<v Speaker 1>cover that. But please absolutely see help and support. And

0:41:10.647 --> 0:41:13.967
<v Speaker 1>in the same way someone with the issue around drinking

0:41:14.127 --> 0:41:18.607
<v Speaker 1>seeks peer support. Family members need their own peer support too,

0:41:18.767 --> 0:41:22.407
<v Speaker 1>because for every person impacted by addiction, the seven closest

0:41:22.727 --> 0:41:27.807
<v Speaker 1>people to them are equally impacted. Another really really awful statistic.

0:41:28.287 --> 0:41:30.807
<v Speaker 1>So you know, jump on our website, have a look

0:41:30.847 --> 0:41:34.327
<v Speaker 1>at the resources an info because it is really really

0:41:34.367 --> 0:41:37.767
<v Speaker 1>fragile territory and it's very very tricky. But there are

0:41:37.807 --> 0:41:41.287
<v Speaker 1>certain things that are better to say than others. There

0:41:41.287 --> 0:41:44.127
<v Speaker 1>are certain things that are better to do than others.

0:41:44.247 --> 0:41:47.167
<v Speaker 1>And I remember when it was May. I'll give you

0:41:47.167 --> 0:41:50.327
<v Speaker 1>an example. Someone very close to me came to me

0:41:50.527 --> 0:41:53.727
<v Speaker 1>one day in the morning very intelligently, because usually after

0:41:53.767 --> 0:41:56.687
<v Speaker 1>five o'clock it was anyone's guess what state I would be.

0:41:56.727 --> 0:41:59.567
<v Speaker 1>And I was an after five blackout drinker. That was

0:41:59.567 --> 0:42:03.727
<v Speaker 1>what I did. I was a workaholic by day, alcoholic

0:42:03.967 --> 0:42:06.807
<v Speaker 1>after five anyway, And she came to me one morning

0:42:06.847 --> 0:42:09.727
<v Speaker 1>and she said, Chen, we know that you're not well,

0:42:10.607 --> 0:42:13.447
<v Speaker 1>we know that you're struggling. We love you very very much,

0:42:13.487 --> 0:42:16.687
<v Speaker 1>but just to be clear, our family can't come and

0:42:16.727 --> 0:42:19.287
<v Speaker 1>have dinner and do anything with you of an evening

0:42:19.327 --> 0:42:23.487
<v Speaker 1>anymore because it's really upsetting and it's too difficult. Yep,

0:42:23.727 --> 0:42:26.327
<v Speaker 1>I know it makes you want to cry. It's too

0:42:26.367 --> 0:42:29.327
<v Speaker 1>hard for us to see you in this much pain

0:42:29.407 --> 0:42:31.287
<v Speaker 1>and torment, and we know that must have.

0:42:31.327 --> 0:42:33.847
<v Speaker 2>Been hard for them to say that to you, I mean,

0:42:34.487 --> 0:42:37.127
<v Speaker 2>unbelievably hard for you to hear. But also that would

0:42:37.167 --> 0:42:38.087
<v Speaker 2>take a lot.

0:42:37.927 --> 0:42:41.887
<v Speaker 1>Of it was really courageous, And what I will never

0:42:41.967 --> 0:42:45.287
<v Speaker 1>forget is the fact that they said, we know you're sick,

0:42:45.567 --> 0:42:48.247
<v Speaker 1>we know you're struggling, we know you can't help this,

0:42:49.047 --> 0:42:51.247
<v Speaker 1>and that is the truth. Really, at end stage addiction,

0:42:51.367 --> 0:42:55.247
<v Speaker 1>you actually can't even you can't even help what you're doing.

0:42:56.247 --> 0:43:00.327
<v Speaker 1>It's dreadful. It's a horrific, horrific thing. But the compassion

0:43:00.807 --> 0:43:03.927
<v Speaker 1>in the delivery took the worst of this sting out

0:43:03.927 --> 0:43:06.447
<v Speaker 1>of it. And when she'd left, it was one of

0:43:06.487 --> 0:43:09.527
<v Speaker 1>the reasons, among a handful of other reasons, that I

0:43:09.647 --> 0:43:14.807
<v Speaker 1>finally went shit, I'm in really big trouble here. If

0:43:14.847 --> 0:43:18.007
<v Speaker 1>people are not game to bring children to my home

0:43:18.567 --> 0:43:21.887
<v Speaker 1>after five o'clock, that's probably one of the most horrifying,

0:43:22.367 --> 0:43:25.927
<v Speaker 1>horrifying things imaginable for me to hear. And then I

0:43:25.967 --> 0:43:27.167
<v Speaker 1>heard some gossip.

0:43:27.567 --> 0:43:30.047
<v Speaker 2>Oh it makes me want to cry for you, because

0:43:30.047 --> 0:43:31.887
<v Speaker 2>just because I also think that, I mean, it's not

0:43:31.927 --> 0:43:34.687
<v Speaker 2>like you wouldn't have already been wallowing in the shame

0:43:34.767 --> 0:43:37.447
<v Speaker 2>of it, and then that would be and I'm sure

0:43:37.447 --> 0:43:39.007
<v Speaker 2>as your friend would have been like, I don't want

0:43:39.047 --> 0:43:41.847
<v Speaker 2>to add to this, you know, but at the same time, anyway, sorry,

0:43:41.927 --> 0:43:42.567
<v Speaker 2>I'm interrupted.

0:43:42.727 --> 0:43:45.567
<v Speaker 1>No, no, not at all. And look, it broke my

0:43:45.687 --> 0:43:49.887
<v Speaker 1>heart because I was always actually super careful around children.

0:43:50.247 --> 0:43:54.807
<v Speaker 1>Weirdly enough, that was my one the one place that

0:43:54.927 --> 0:43:57.607
<v Speaker 1>I was really good was if kids were involved. I

0:43:57.687 --> 0:44:01.407
<v Speaker 1>never allowed myself to be crazy shant. But anyway, it

0:44:01.447 --> 0:44:03.327
<v Speaker 1>was it was a fair call and it was a

0:44:03.327 --> 0:44:06.247
<v Speaker 1>fair point. And then I heard someone gossiping about me,

0:44:07.007 --> 0:44:08.887
<v Speaker 1>believe it or not, at my own house, with my

0:44:08.887 --> 0:44:11.967
<v Speaker 1>own because they thought I was asleep, And so these

0:44:12.007 --> 0:44:14.647
<v Speaker 1>things just kept happening and adding up and it was

0:44:14.727 --> 0:44:16.927
<v Speaker 1>no longer I mean, plus the fact that I was

0:44:16.927 --> 0:44:20.047
<v Speaker 1>in emergency every bloody five minutes, I mean, I was

0:44:20.167 --> 0:44:22.887
<v Speaker 1>just headed for death. That's not even a question mark.

0:44:22.967 --> 0:44:26.927
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, back to your question, Holly, Oh, it's really

0:44:26.927 --> 0:44:30.607
<v Speaker 1>tricky territory. And I just so strongly advise people, if

0:44:30.647 --> 0:44:34.087
<v Speaker 1>you are fortunate enough to live in a city where

0:44:34.087 --> 0:44:37.287
<v Speaker 1>there are l and non face to face support meetings,

0:44:37.527 --> 0:44:40.767
<v Speaker 1>just go, go and sit and learn from people with

0:44:40.927 --> 0:44:45.447
<v Speaker 1>experience and lived experience. Nothing will be more powerful for

0:44:45.527 --> 0:44:48.967
<v Speaker 1>you to find your way through. Just go and give

0:44:49.007 --> 0:44:53.087
<v Speaker 1>it a crack. Jump on an online group, get help, learn,

0:44:53.487 --> 0:44:59.007
<v Speaker 1>equip yourself. And whilst compassion is necessary and while the

0:44:59.047 --> 0:45:01.527
<v Speaker 1>people you love in addiction are not bad people, they

0:45:01.527 --> 0:45:04.007
<v Speaker 1>are very sick and you actually have to learn to

0:45:04.047 --> 0:45:08.807
<v Speaker 1>protect yourself and put some very serious boundaries in places

0:45:09.047 --> 0:45:11.207
<v Speaker 1>that it's just a sad fact.

0:45:11.647 --> 0:45:15.207
<v Speaker 2>Did your relationship with that loved one survive? Yeah, the

0:45:15.207 --> 0:45:16.967
<v Speaker 2>one who was brave enough to say that to you?

0:45:17.007 --> 0:45:19.607
<v Speaker 1>And oh my god, I'm going to cry telling you this.

0:45:21.647 --> 0:45:24.407
<v Speaker 1>Oh it always gets me. It's a really beautiful story.

0:45:24.447 --> 0:45:27.647
<v Speaker 1>It was actually my sister in law and two years

0:45:27.727 --> 0:45:30.127
<v Speaker 1>later she made me the godmom of her little boy.

0:45:31.007 --> 0:45:35.087
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I know, sorry, I wasn't even going to

0:45:35.167 --> 0:45:37.367
<v Speaker 1>drop that in there, but it always makes me cry.

0:45:37.527 --> 0:45:40.967
<v Speaker 1>And so I think that that is a really gorgeous

0:45:43.247 --> 0:45:47.087
<v Speaker 1>story of such hope and restoration that can happen because

0:45:47.847 --> 0:45:50.647
<v Speaker 1>I thought that relationship was done. I thought it was

0:45:50.807 --> 0:45:56.247
<v Speaker 1>never going to be repairable. And sorry, and that's you know,

0:45:56.327 --> 0:45:59.807
<v Speaker 1>that's here's the beautiful take home lesson for people holy

0:46:00.007 --> 0:46:03.407
<v Speaker 1>like you know you might think, and I guess this

0:46:03.607 --> 0:46:06.407
<v Speaker 1>is definitely aimed more so at people who resonate with

0:46:06.527 --> 0:46:10.567
<v Speaker 1>me where it's just it seems as so there's no hope,

0:46:10.607 --> 0:46:15.927
<v Speaker 1>there's no redemption, there's no alternative. There is there is.

0:46:16.087 --> 0:46:18.527
<v Speaker 1>And you know the other thing my husband said to

0:46:18.567 --> 0:46:22.807
<v Speaker 1>me when I begged him to leave this town, he said, sweetheart,

0:46:23.807 --> 0:46:27.087
<v Speaker 1>you'll see that in time when people observe who you

0:46:27.167 --> 0:46:31.287
<v Speaker 1>become and who you are and who I see, the

0:46:31.327 --> 0:46:34.647
<v Speaker 1>girl I love is who they're going to start seeing.

0:46:34.887 --> 0:46:37.087
<v Speaker 1>And you just have to hang in there. And he said,

0:46:37.127 --> 0:46:40.647
<v Speaker 1>once people discover who the shan is that we know,

0:46:41.007 --> 0:46:44.607
<v Speaker 1>those of you closest to you know, watch what will happen.

0:46:45.247 --> 0:46:48.407
<v Speaker 1>And you know something, Holly, I've had that redemption and

0:46:48.487 --> 0:46:53.167
<v Speaker 1>I've had that restoration, and I mean, gosh, imagine imagine

0:46:53.207 --> 0:46:57.367
<v Speaker 1>being an Australian of the Year recipient and going back

0:46:57.407 --> 0:47:00.727
<v Speaker 1>into your town with that. I mean, it's unimaginable really

0:47:00.767 --> 0:47:03.687
<v Speaker 1>to me that that even happened. And again, that's not

0:47:03.727 --> 0:47:05.327
<v Speaker 1>why I do what I do. It's not why I

0:47:05.327 --> 0:47:08.847
<v Speaker 1>did what I did, but I guess I do always

0:47:08.927 --> 0:47:13.327
<v Speaker 1>hope that it's a story that we will encourage others

0:47:13.367 --> 0:47:13.647
<v Speaker 1>to know.

0:47:15.567 --> 0:47:19.847
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, thank you for telling the story. Thank you for

0:47:19.927 --> 0:47:22.247
<v Speaker 2>doing what you do. With sober in the country, with

0:47:22.607 --> 0:47:26.007
<v Speaker 2>the peer support group. I mean, it's just it's amazing

0:47:26.087 --> 0:47:28.767
<v Speaker 2>because I know that there will be so many women

0:47:28.807 --> 0:47:32.167
<v Speaker 2>listening to this who they'll either be thinking about themselves,

0:47:32.287 --> 0:47:34.527
<v Speaker 2>or they'll be thinking about their partner, or they'll be

0:47:34.567 --> 0:47:38.407
<v Speaker 2>thinking about their friends. And it's just so helpful. And

0:47:38.487 --> 0:47:41.567
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for sharing. Obviously, Shanna, we will

0:47:41.607 --> 0:47:44.047
<v Speaker 2>put in our show notes for this episode all of

0:47:44.087 --> 0:47:46.967
<v Speaker 2>the links to all of your resources, and so if

0:47:46.967 --> 0:47:49.727
<v Speaker 2>it has raised issues for people, they can go there.

0:47:49.767 --> 0:47:51.527
<v Speaker 2>There's also a lot of resources on there for people

0:47:51.567 --> 0:47:54.487
<v Speaker 2>who aren't in the country. Absolutely, thank you so much

0:47:54.527 --> 0:47:55.367
<v Speaker 2>for this conversation.

0:47:55.967 --> 0:47:59.127
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for having me, Holleen. I just really appreciate

0:47:59.207 --> 0:48:00.807
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity and I wish I could give you a

0:48:00.847 --> 0:48:01.407
<v Speaker 1>little cuddle.

0:48:05.447 --> 0:48:08.847
<v Speaker 2>When we finished that conversation, everyone in the studio was

0:48:08.887 --> 0:48:12.047
<v Speaker 2>in tea. And if you're ending this the same way,

0:48:12.407 --> 0:48:15.047
<v Speaker 2>maybe because it struck a chord with you about your drinking,

0:48:15.127 --> 0:48:18.047
<v Speaker 2>or about someone in your life shrinking, or someone who

0:48:18.127 --> 0:48:20.567
<v Speaker 2>used to be in your live strinking. I want you

0:48:20.607 --> 0:48:23.407
<v Speaker 2>to know that, friend, you're not alone. As Shanner so

0:48:23.527 --> 0:48:26.767
<v Speaker 2>eloquently puts it, you're up against the world in some ways,

0:48:26.807 --> 0:48:29.487
<v Speaker 2>and you're past and everything you've ever been told about

0:48:29.487 --> 0:48:32.727
<v Speaker 2>having a good time. You're not broken, and you are

0:48:32.807 --> 0:48:35.647
<v Speaker 2>not weak. You're going to find links in our show

0:48:35.687 --> 0:48:39.407
<v Speaker 2>notes to organizations that can help you, including Shannon's of course.

0:48:40.487 --> 0:48:43.367
<v Speaker 2>And next week we're having a conversation that's for you

0:48:43.527 --> 0:48:46.127
<v Speaker 2>if you're one of the very many midlife women who

0:48:46.167 --> 0:48:50.407
<v Speaker 2>are just tired all the time. It's about burnout, and

0:48:50.447 --> 0:48:53.927
<v Speaker 2>it's with the important and beautiful writer Catherine May. I

0:48:54.007 --> 0:48:57.047
<v Speaker 2>cannot wait for you to hear that. I was dying

0:48:57.087 --> 0:48:59.127
<v Speaker 2>to talk to Katherine. If you've ever heard of the

0:48:59.127 --> 0:49:01.287
<v Speaker 2>book Wintering, lots of people have heard of it. She

0:49:01.407 --> 0:49:04.327
<v Speaker 2>wrote it. It's amazing. Anyway, you'll hear me gosh about

0:49:04.327 --> 0:49:06.887
<v Speaker 2>that next week. I want to thank my excellent producer,

0:49:06.887 --> 0:49:09.567
<v Speaker 2>to Elsabezaz for making these shows with me. I want

0:49:09.567 --> 0:49:11.647
<v Speaker 2>to thank you for listening to them. If you love

0:49:11.767 --> 0:49:14.167
<v Speaker 2>mid share it with someone who needs to hear it.

0:49:14.447 --> 0:49:15.407
<v Speaker 2>We'll see you next week.