Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to bathera mea out loud.
Speaker 2: It's what women are actually talking about on Friday, the
Speaker 2: thirty first of July.
Speaker 1: My name's Holly Wayine Wright.
Speaker 3: I'm me a Friedman and I'm.
Speaker 1: M Vernham and here's what made our gender.
Speaker 4: For today's show, Dolly Alderton has shared her single women
Speaker 4: manifesto for anyone who is struggling with dating right now,
Speaker 4: which I think is every single person.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not really you're not a single person.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm not a single Oh every single person.
Speaker 1: I'm a single He's.
Speaker 2: An English fun The biggest best selling books tend to
Speaker 2: have one thing in common, and it's not great news
Speaker 2: for women.
Speaker 3: Or is it. And it's Friday, so we've got the
Speaker 3: things that we've actually been buying and wearing and slapping
Speaker 3: on our faces. Yay, it's recos.
Speaker 2: But first Emily Vernon, Oh my god, are actually Oh?
Speaker 1: But first me a Friedman?
Speaker 3: No Christ on a bike. This is what happens when
Speaker 3: I don't have a fidget toy. Things just turn to
Speaker 3: ship and.
Speaker 1: You've got a seating chart update for me.
Speaker 5: I'm so.
Speaker 1: Friday. It's Friday.
Speaker 3: I cannot work with amateurs.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about as much. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4: We do have a seating update, so if you if
Speaker 4: you don't know, you should have because last week we
Speaker 4: talked about where we sit on the podcast and Holly
Speaker 4: said quite aggressively that she'd love to sit in the
Speaker 4: middle seat. There's a power seat, the seed that I'm
Speaker 4: sitting in currently, that me and you were sitting in
Speaker 4: last week.
Speaker 3: I was, but then I remember that I prefer my
Speaker 3: profile to my front on, so it's not the power
Speaker 3: seat for me.
Speaker 4: You wanted to give it to me, So we did
Speaker 4: a poll out louders on our Instagram. Also, if you
Speaker 4: don't follow us on Instagram, please follow us because we
Speaker 4: do a lot of socials on that behind the scenes,
Speaker 4: lot of behind the scenes, and we asked you to
Speaker 4: vote on who you think should get the middle seat.
Speaker 4: Eighty seven percent of people vot and thinks you should
Speaker 4: be here.
Speaker 3: That's not fair.
Speaker 1: I'm here, and yet here I am.
Speaker 3: Well, that's like us bringing a knife to a gunfight
Speaker 3: because Holly is always the favorite. Like whatever time, anyway,
Speaker 3: wait taken, keep voting, keep voting.
Speaker 1: Maybe one day we'll get that.
Speaker 3: Anyway, In case you missed it, I have news about
Speaker 3: leg hair. Tokyo is having a very brutal summer. I
Speaker 3: was there probably about a month or six weeks ago,
Speaker 3: and I crammed my trip in quickly because I knew
Speaker 3: it was going to be super hot at this time
Speaker 3: of year. And so it is forty degrees over forty
Speaker 3: degrees most days, and the governor has told public servants
Speaker 3: that they can ditch the suit and wear shorts to work. Oh, however,
Speaker 3: it's not that nice. Thirty percent of Japanese women say
Speaker 3: they I don't like it, and some are even claiming
Speaker 3: leg hair harassment.
Speaker 1: Oh, leg hair harassment. How does that go?
Speaker 3: Well, there is a word for it, which I love.
Speaker 3: It's called sunnihara, and that buying the Japanese words for
Speaker 3: shin and harassment together, which I love. But the twist
Speaker 3: is that this term was actually not coined by women.
Speaker 3: It was pioneered by men's hair removal clinic in Japan
Speaker 3: in twenty fourteen. So it's like the manufactured insecurity playbook
Speaker 3: aimed at men for once welcome boys. We've been here
Speaker 3: since about nineteen twenty exactly.
Speaker 1: God, I love.
Speaker 4: When I was reading about this, I saw an interview
Speaker 4: with someone who does work at a hair removal clinic
Speaker 4: in Japan, and they said that they have had an
Speaker 4: uptick in men wanting to remove their leg hair to
Speaker 4: make the women around them feel more comfortable.
Speaker 3: It's true because Japanese people are very polite. I'm here
Speaker 3: to testify. I experienced it myself.
Speaker 2: I'm still stuck on what leg hair harassment looks like.
Speaker 2: Is it that you might be on a train and
Speaker 2: their leg hair may rub up against your leg or
Speaker 2: is it just looking at it?
Speaker 3: Looking at it's visual? I think it's visual. I don't know.
Speaker 3: They wouldn't be touching on a train. I mean, even
Speaker 3: though the train can be quite crowded. It's not so
Speaker 3: much that I think that it's just they don't want
Speaker 3: to see it. It's considered too intimate. They don't want
Speaker 3: to see men's leg hair.
Speaker 1: I like a hairy leg on a man. I I'm
Speaker 1: just going to say it.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: What's the feeling about it? I mean, I know you
Speaker 1: like hairy chat.
Speaker 2: I like it's just the general hairiness. The thing that's
Speaker 2: funny is that Brent, my partner, he hates wearing long pants.
Speaker 2: It's like one of those schoolboys who would just like
Speaker 2: to wear shorts all the time. And so there is
Speaker 2: like one month in the middle of winter in it
Speaker 2: now where he will have to wear long pants and
Speaker 2: he just it's like he's a dog wearing clothes. You
Speaker 2: know how you always say about Jesse when she's wearing Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just like he's always like pulling out it, like
Speaker 2: he would wear shorts all the time. And sometimes you
Speaker 2: just have to say not appropriate. Baby, if we're going
Speaker 2: to a fancy restaurant, you're going to a wedding, something
Speaker 2: no one needs to see you. So I'm happy to
Speaker 2: hear about this because now I've got a new term
Speaker 2: to say, don't harass people.
Speaker 1: True if you like hair.
Speaker 3: The great news about Brent is that it's actually the
Speaker 3: same pair of pants just zips the bottom to the shorts.
Speaker 3: You know, the pants like cargoy pants that zip and
Speaker 3: become musical.
Speaker 2: He pulls them off like he's a bushwalker. And they
Speaker 2: have those like pants that can be short or can
Speaker 2: be long.
Speaker 3: Can also be made into a tint if you need
Speaker 3: shelter in an emergency.
Speaker 1: Same, Oh my god, I want a pay bless him.
Speaker 1: Keep your leg hair to yourself.
Speaker 2: You might have seen some headlines around about the UK
Speaker 2: book charts and specifically the takeaway that dead women sell books.
Speaker 2: Author Wendy Jones made an Instagram post that traveled with
Speaker 2: speed about how on any given week, So the particular
Speaker 2: week that she was talking about. In Britain, they post
Speaker 2: the Sunday Times bestseller list every week. We don't really
Speaker 2: have an exact equivalent of that here, but they post
Speaker 2: a Sunday Times bestseller list every week. And she wrote
Speaker 2: a post and then subsequently a Financial Times feature about
Speaker 2: how in that particular week, but pretty much in every week.
Speaker 2: Seven to nine of the books in the top ten
Speaker 2: fiction all featured a dead woman of some kind. Now, right,
Speaker 2: so everybody goes, WHOA, that's terrible, and obviously it is.
Speaker 2: Titles range from historical fiction to domestic noire, police procedurals,
Speaker 2: so on and so on and so on. Writers from
Speaker 2: Robert Galbraith, who is JK Rowling, She's in the top ten,
Speaker 2: but also Lisa Jewel, Dan Brown, lots of different kinds
Speaker 2: of writers.
Speaker 3: Now, sorry, did you say that JK Rowling is Robert Gulbraith. Yes,
Speaker 3: she doesn't write under her name.
Speaker 2: Well, she has a series of books like crime books
Speaker 2: that she writes under Robert Galbraith, and they do very
Speaker 2: well and she's in the top ten. Okay, right, So
Speaker 2: Wendy wrote this post. She said, eighty four percent of
Speaker 2: the books people brought and read in the UK this
Speaker 2: week involved a woman being murdered for entertainment. What is
Speaker 2: going on here?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: On the face of it, that's very confronting. We've talked
Speaker 2: a lot about people talk a lot about how throwing
Speaker 2: a body in the beginning of a TV show or
Speaker 2: a movie, and very often the female body is a
Speaker 2: trope that's been with us forever and it's kind of disgusting.
Speaker 2: But the nuance in this list, a lot of writers
Speaker 2: came out and said, hold on. Most of the people
Speaker 2: who've written these books, not necessarily these specific books, but
Speaker 2: the books that populate these lists are written by women.
Speaker 2: Most of the people who buy these books are women.
Speaker 2: More than eighty percent of the fiction buying public a
Speaker 2: female right. So if women are writing these books and
Speaker 2: women are consuming these books, what does that say about
Speaker 2: the idea that a lot of them are about female crime?
Speaker 2: Because it kind of up ends the neat narrative that
Speaker 2: like men are using violence against women as a tantalizing
Speaker 2: plot point before I get into whether or not the
Speaker 2: same is true here in Australia, What are our first
Speaker 2: thoughts about that?
Speaker 4: Well, when I was reading about this, I was thinking
Speaker 4: of my favorite books, and two books I came into
Speaker 4: mind was Mela Luca that we did for book club
Speaker 4: and a book that I've given for the book giveaway
Speaker 4: that we're doing right now at Mama Mia Yellow Face
Speaker 4: by R. F. Kuan, and they both center around a
Speaker 4: woman's death. And when I was trying to analyze why
Speaker 4: I found those books so appealing and why they're my
Speaker 4: favorite books, I think it's because it's when I read
Speaker 4: about a woman's death in a book and a novel,
Speaker 4: it's so different to what we experience in real life,
Speaker 4: where the whole story is revolved around that and her life,
Speaker 4: and like the investigation into a death and like the
Speaker 4: ramifications of what happens after she dies. It's like a
Speaker 4: full story with all of these characters just focusing on
Speaker 4: her death and her as a person, and that's never
Speaker 4: reflected in real life, where it's kind of like feels
Speaker 4: a bit of like a takeaway moment.
Speaker 3: What do you mean I don't understand?
Speaker 4: As in, like when a character dies in a book
Speaker 4: and that whole story's revolved around that death. It's something
Speaker 4: that I've never seen happen in real life, where if
Speaker 4: a woman dies in real life, we just know her name,
Speaker 4: what happened, and then we move on to the next woman.
Speaker 3: Well, so you feel like it's behind the scenes a
Speaker 3: little I feel like it's behind.
Speaker 4: The scenes a little bit. And it also like shows
Speaker 4: that when you immerse yourself in a story, you feel
Speaker 4: like that there are all these people that exist who
Speaker 4: want to find out why she died, how she died,
Speaker 4: what her life.
Speaker 3: But couldn't you do that without immerse yourself in a
Speaker 3: story without someone dying.
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: I think it's more about like the control, and it's
Speaker 4: something that's so different that's reflected in real life. And
Speaker 4: I think it's similar to why so many women love
Speaker 4: true crime in the same vein, because there's all this
Speaker 4: research and attention put on the story that they haven't seen.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's a name for this, and it's called threat rehearsal.
Speaker 3: So it's that women we're sort of programmed in a
Speaker 3: way to retell stories about terrible things happening to other
Speaker 3: women and read them and you know, through word of mouth,
Speaker 3: rehearse and prepare ourselves and protect ourselves against that happening
Speaker 3: to us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe it's that, But I also think it's just
Speaker 4: about the focus, Like it's just the focus on the
Speaker 4: woman's life, and I find that.
Speaker 1: Like always just a character.
Speaker 2: Like it's interesting because some of the writers who've come
Speaker 2: out to defend, well, not defend, I don't want this
Speaker 2: to sound in any way like people are defending frivolous
Speaker 2: use of women's lives or violence against women or whatever,
Speaker 2: but defend the fact that this is such an explored
Speaker 2: topic in fiction. Some of them have said something very
Speaker 2: similar to what you're saying, and which is that The
Speaker 2: thing is is that very often in true crime detective
Speaker 2: procedural books, you get an answer, so you get you
Speaker 2: get the crime, and then you get investigation of it,
Speaker 2: and then you get the baddie gets caught. Like that's
Speaker 2: nearly always what happens, right, and that's very satisfying, and
Speaker 2: we like stories that like justice is done, good bang.
Speaker 2: And the thing is too is a lot of these
Speaker 2: books are very different in terms, even the two you
Speaker 2: mentioned then, right, Samala Luka, which was the biggest selling
Speaker 2: day in Australia last year, written by an Indigenous author.
Speaker 2: It focused on the death of an Indigenous woman investigated
Speaker 2: by an Indigenous cop. It was really interesting about a
Speaker 2: particular community yellow Face. That's an accidental death, different thing altogether, right,
Speaker 2: So it's in a way saying all these books have
Speaker 2: something in common. It isn't necessarily true in Australia though,
Speaker 2: right If you look at the best selling books of
Speaker 2: last year, they do bear this out, generally speaking. Jane
Speaker 2: Harper last one out right crime book, Gravity, Let Me
Speaker 2: Go by Trent Dalton crime book, right, Mad Mabel by
Speaker 2: Sally Herpworth Crime Book. But those three books are so different,
Speaker 2: like they're so different in what they are, what they're
Speaker 2: trying to say, how they explore it, the tone. It
Speaker 2: feels like a very simplistic way to look at that,
Speaker 2: because if women are writing most of these books and
Speaker 2: buying most of these books for all kinds of different reasons.
Speaker 2: Another reason is just about stakes, right, is that when
Speaker 2: you're writing or reading fiction, you often want the stakes
Speaker 2: to be very high. And the true crime obsession that
Speaker 2: has sort of gripped everybody over the past twenty years
Speaker 2: has spun off into lots of different directions, and it
Speaker 2: feels like something that we want to investigate for the
Speaker 2: reason that you said threat rehearsal. We want to see
Speaker 2: resolutions too, but also we know that it's real life
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: It's relatable.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's kind of like proof too when it
Speaker 4: does happen in real life. It's kind of proof of
Speaker 4: like when you sear these stories of you going like oh,
Speaker 4: when I hear these stories, it's like, I want to
Speaker 4: know what to do if I'm in that situation. Yeah,
Speaker 4: or it's proved that, like it does happen to women
Speaker 4: in real life as well.
Speaker 2: That's what Sally said. I asked, So, I asked Sally Hepworth.
Speaker 2: She has got obviously one of the best selling books
Speaker 2: of last year. I'd Mabel still is in the best
Speaker 2: selling top ten. That book has been so huge. She
Speaker 2: often writes crime, not always women on women, but she
Speaker 2: writes crime, but her books are so much more than that.
Speaker 2: And I said to her, why do you think women
Speaker 2: love to read about this? And she said pretty much
Speaker 2: what he has said. She said, we know it's a
Speaker 2: real life threat in our lives. We know it's something
Speaker 2: that happens and we want to protect ourselves almost by
Speaker 2: exploring it in a way that is safe and accessible.
Speaker 3: It's not just novels, though, And what disturbs me more
Speaker 3: is the genre of TV shows which have been going
Speaker 3: for a really long time. And Laura in Order, for example,
Speaker 3: is pretty much always that it's a what's called procedural
Speaker 3: there's a murder at the beginning, it's almost always a woman.
Speaker 3: True crime podcasts almost always tell gruesome stories about women.
Speaker 1: What disturbs me the.
Speaker 3: Most, and I can't believe this is actually on air,
Speaker 3: is Laura and Order SVU. I can't like Special Victims Unit.
Speaker 3: That's a show entirely about the crimes around sexual assault
Speaker 3: murder of women. And to me, that is just the
Speaker 3: most I mean, I guess it's an aspect of threat rehearsal,
Speaker 3: and I don't know what the demographic breakdown is between
Speaker 3: male and female viewers of that, but to me, that
Speaker 3: is just like sexual assault porn. It's I find that
Speaker 3: really grotesque.
Speaker 2: I agree, And I also think when we were just
Speaker 2: talking about why women are the biggest consumers of true
Speaker 2: crime content, which they generally are, and the biggest readers
Speaker 2: of these kind of crime books, women are smart Newsplash.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone needing that book.
Speaker 2: And we can tell when we're consuming content whether our
Speaker 2: lives and our safety is being taken almost in a
Speaker 2: titillating fashion. If you watch like old movies from the
Speaker 2: seventies and eighties about that have crimes in them, the
Speaker 2: gratuitous nature of the way that women will turn up
Speaker 2: in those shows horor in horrific circumstances, you can almost
Speaker 2: feel that it is designed to be exciting, right, what
Speaker 2: do you mean exploitative? So it'll be you know, let's
Speaker 2: open on a shot of a naked woman in a
Speaker 2: shit and then something terrible happens to her.
Speaker 1: You know, it's still that like those shows are.
Speaker 2: But I feel like what I'm getting to is that
Speaker 2: I think that women can understand deeply the difference between
Speaker 2: that kind of exploitative violence and reading a book that
Speaker 2: thoughtfully explains a story that does feature a death.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? They're not necessarily the
Speaker 1: same thing.
Speaker 3: Do you have pressure to put dead bodies in your
Speaker 3: stories in your novel I have had.
Speaker 2: I have had that because the thing that's interesting is
Speaker 2: that crime as a genre has become so enormous. Remember,
Speaker 2: publishing is a business, right, So most publishers want, obviously
Speaker 2: one to published books that sell, and the most sure
Speaker 2: fire way of doing that, in as far as anything
Speaker 2: is sure fire, is to.
Speaker 1: Look at what's sold before.
Speaker 2: So that's why when there is one, you know, cozy
Speaker 2: crime as they call it, that's what Richard Osmond writes.
Speaker 3: For example, he doesn't write books where women are murdered.
Speaker 1: Well, a lot.
Speaker 2: Different people are murdered, sometimes women, sometimes men, but they're
Speaker 2: not it's they call it cozy crime. And sal might
Speaker 2: be a little bit cozy crime in what she does,
Speaker 2: which is that there might be there'll probably be a
Speaker 2: crime as part of the storyline. Yeah, but they're very
Speaker 2: character whosome. It's not gratuitous, it's not gory. And then
Speaker 2: the plot of the book is much more about the characters,
Speaker 2: the procedures that they'll have something to say. If you
Speaker 2: think about Mad Mabel by Sally Hepworth, right, there is
Speaker 2: a woman's death in that book, but that book has
Speaker 2: so many interesting things to say about what can happen
Speaker 2: to a young woman. And the hero is female and
Speaker 2: all the great characters are female, and it's a very
Speaker 2: it's a very feminist book, right, really anyway, crime being
Speaker 2: massive and now splintering off into some kind of procedural cozy,
Speaker 2: all these kinds of genres. Everybody's like, we want more
Speaker 2: of that, more of that. I kind of think maybe
Speaker 2: we're getting to a tipping point with it.
Speaker 3: To me, it's about what is propulsive about a book
Speaker 3: is mystery and unraveling a mystery, so you keep turning
Speaker 3: the pages to find out what happened. Like even with Yesteryear,
Speaker 3: I can't remember if anyone was murdered in that or not,
Speaker 3: but I kept turning the pages to find out how
Speaker 3: this time shift thing happened and to unravel the mystery
Speaker 3: of what was seated at the beginning. And there's no
Speaker 3: higher stakes than someone dying, And particularly when you then
Speaker 3: get to know their character through the course of the
Speaker 3: book and you know that someone's died or you know
Speaker 3: that they've died, then it's really propulsive. So isn't it,
Speaker 3: in part way just a fictional device. It's a plot device.
Speaker 1: It absolutely is.
Speaker 2: But then I think that's one of the things that
Speaker 2: people object to, is they like, we're using.
Speaker 3: We care more about the murder of women than we
Speaker 3: do about the murder of men. Is that when I
Speaker 3: say we care more, I mean it feels higher stakes,
Speaker 3: like or is it that women relate more? Because well,
Speaker 3: I think female readers, and.
Speaker 4: If the audience is female readers, I personally would care
Speaker 4: more if it was woman who died versus a man
Speaker 4: who died. But I understand what you were saying about
Speaker 4: comparing it with the TV show. I do feel like
Speaker 4: they're two separate audiences. And with the TV show, like,
Speaker 4: even when I see these books get made into movies
Speaker 4: and TV show, I noticed that they have to lean
Speaker 4: way more into the cozy to not make it so extrested.
Speaker 4: I was thinking about that with The Thursday Murder Club,
Speaker 4: and they had to in the show. They had to
Speaker 4: really lean into the cozy element of it and the
Speaker 4: setup and the set design and stuff for the death
Speaker 4: to not seem so like.
Speaker 3: So it's not it's the death almost is not a
Speaker 3: main character. Like when you just said that about Mad
Speaker 3: Mabel and sales books, I was like, wait, did people
Speaker 3: just sell it write books where women die? Like I
Speaker 3: couldn't even think of a single yeah example of that,
Speaker 3: Because you're right, that's not the point. That's kind of
Speaker 3: like a plot point, but it is not the point,
Speaker 3: it's not the central narrative.
Speaker 4: No, exactly out loud as in a moment, a single
Speaker 4: girl's manifesto that everyone needs to read.
Speaker 3: You keep saying manifesto, but maybe that's okay?
Speaker 4: Is it manifesto? Manifest isn't there an esther? No, so good? Okra,
Speaker 4: Sorry wait wait, I've got the giggles.
Speaker 3: Wait you can have the giggles. It's sorry, Okay, okay, okay, manifesto. Sorry, sorry,
Speaker 3: you thought it was manifesto.
Speaker 1: I thought it was manifesto.
Speaker 2: It is really not like this is in my mind
Speaker 2: it's manifesto.
Speaker 3: There is in it.
Speaker 4: There's just not two manifesto manifesto.
Speaker 1: Moving on now, she's got the giggle.
Speaker 3: It's okay. We'll add it to the list of things
Speaker 3: none of us can pronounce.
Speaker 1: To say this word so many more time.
Speaker 3: Do you have other words that you can't pronounce?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, permanent, I say sometimes say is a permanent? But
Speaker 1: it's fine. You're amongst friends.
Speaker 3: Oh, exciting news for me. The premiere of Victoria and
Speaker 3: resigned this week.
Speaker 1: We can't go back there, come back there.
Speaker 5: No, I don't want to be thirty again, but I
Speaker 5: would take forty four. I think I think it's life
Speaker 5: starts at forty four.
Speaker 1: Who tell me why why forty four was so good?
Speaker 5: Because you come into yourself in a way that you're
Speaker 5: not You're no longer trying to please everybody else. I
Speaker 5: do have some girls now that I've mentored who are
Speaker 5: in their early thirties who've gotten to it sooner, But
Speaker 5: for me, it was forty four where I lucked in.
Speaker 3: That was Oprah on Keihy Palmer's podcast last week. She
Speaker 3: was asked by Keiki if she'd go back to being thirty.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the context is, but it was
Speaker 3: a really interesting question because what she said about the
Speaker 3: ideal age, she was very specific forty four, and it
Speaker 3: made me think and wonder about that, about the age
Speaker 3: that you'd go back to if you could choose, And
Speaker 3: I really liked her reasoning. You know, there was recently
Speaker 3: a survey where two thousand people in America, men and women,
Speaker 3: were asked what age they'd be forever if they could choose.
Speaker 3: And what's really interesting is that it was thirty.
Speaker 1: Six, thirty six.
Speaker 3: What happens at thirty six, Well, it's a little hard
Speaker 3: to say, because if you had separated that between men
Speaker 3: and women, It would probably be different because women are
Speaker 3: more likely if you say what age would they like
Speaker 3: to be and what age do they think is the
Speaker 3: best age if you ask them sort of obviously the
Speaker 3: older they are, the more ages they have to choose from.
Speaker 3: But women who are older will say fifties, and that's
Speaker 3: much older than men will say usually a younger age.
Speaker 3: And the reason this is, which I think is so interesting,
Speaker 3: it's around freedom. But it's sort of been speculated that
Speaker 3: that's the first time than it's not about your body
Speaker 3: and how you look. It's the first time people aren't
Speaker 3: demanding things of you because your kids have grown up,
Speaker 3: you might be divorced, or you might you're not in
Speaker 3: that kind of high need state if you've had kids,
Speaker 3: and if you haven't had kids, you're not probably thinking
Speaker 3: about having kids because that's off the table. So it's
Speaker 3: really interesting because you might think that every person would
Speaker 3: say the age that society tells you you're most valuable,
Speaker 3: which for women would be probably twenties, right.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 4: I love this question. It's a question that I always
Speaker 4: play with like my extended family, like we always do
Speaker 4: this at every family Readunia, and there's so many of us.
Speaker 4: But It's really interesting when I ask like my older
Speaker 4: aunties and uncles, especially all of them above fifty, because
Speaker 4: I've noticed a lot of my uncles would say their
Speaker 4: age that they'd go back to, or their like glory
Speaker 4: age was always in their twenties or like late teens,
Speaker 4: and it's always around like friends, being in school, doing bought,
Speaker 4: being like the best in college, no responsibilities, no responsibilities.
Speaker 4: And for all my aunties, it's always in their like
Speaker 4: mid thirties early forties, where they still have their kids
Speaker 4: at home and it's always surrounded my family. And for men,
Speaker 4: it's like when I was single, and yeah, that's to
Speaker 4: look after.
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
Speaker 2: What about how do you feel about the idea that
Speaker 2: life starts at forty four, which is still fourteen years
Speaker 2: away for you, so you're not even living real life here.
Speaker 4: I feel like the older I get, the further it
Speaker 4: moves up, Like you guys like, oh no, it's actually fifty.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's actually sixty.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 3: What do you think about the trade off between as
Speaker 3: a woman, Obviously, if you're younger, your body might look better,
Speaker 3: so physically you might get more validation from society about
Speaker 3: how you look, but mentally is your twenties, your happiest.
Speaker 2: Well, I know any women who would say twenties exactly,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say twenties.
Speaker 1: I would like, it wouldn't even occur to me.
Speaker 3: But for me, and women don't. Women don't take twenties generally.
Speaker 2: So I think that tells you that that isn't important, really,
Speaker 2: isn't it, Because when I think about what age I
Speaker 2: would go back to, it's impossible to unpick it from
Speaker 2: your own life, because I think I might choose to
Speaker 2: go to freedom years, in which case it would be
Speaker 2: about thirty two for me definitely at post thirty would
Speaker 2: have to be And then I think, oh, but what
Speaker 2: about little kid these years? Because now I'm old, My
Speaker 2: kids are old enough that.
Speaker 3: I would nostalgic for those, So I'm like.
Speaker 1: That would be forty two.
Speaker 2: And then I think, maybe like when my parents are
Speaker 2: really healthy, you know what I mean, Like I can.
Speaker 2: It's about traveling back to a time in your life,
Speaker 2: and I think to Oprah's point, I mean, it's it
Speaker 2: would be very cheesy to say right now, I'm living
Speaker 2: my best life right now, but in lots of ways
Speaker 2: I am like, you know, she's right about your feeling
Speaker 2: a certain level of self assurance, and you know your
Speaker 2: careers in a certain place, and you're doing things you
Speaker 2: want to do and all those things.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do.
Speaker 2: And all the young petarents who we work with would
Speaker 2: kill me for that answer. But there is a bit
Speaker 2: of me these days. I watched the kids move away.
Speaker 2: That's like I'd like to travel back to them being
Speaker 2: really little. I'd like to take a holiday there. I'd
Speaker 2: like to, like, yes, the year, you know, I'd like
Speaker 2: to take a holiday for just a few days when
Speaker 2: the kids were really little and cute, and take a
Speaker 2: holiday when I was like, my parents are really well
Speaker 2: and we were having lots of adventures together, and I'd
Speaker 2: love to take little holidays in bits.
Speaker 3: Of Oh, that would be so lovely. I mean, that's
Speaker 3: what grandparenting is, I guess it is. It's like taking
Speaker 3: a little holiday in little children so you.
Speaker 1: Can give them back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that. It's so interesting what you said.
Speaker 3: I'm about men say teens or early twenties. No, women, no,
Speaker 3: say that. So the biggest group was women, saying fifties
Speaker 3: and twenties were the smallest group out of four hundred
Speaker 3: and sixty sixth women who asked the question. Eleven said
Speaker 3: they were happiest before they were twenty eleven women, do.
Speaker 2: You think that part of that twenty Do you think
Speaker 2: that tells us that the whole idea of the youth
Speaker 2: and beauty piece that you mentioned before me that.
Speaker 1: It just fucks with us. Yeah, so like one.
Speaker 2: Of us ever feel fontiful. So when you're wrestling with
Speaker 2: all that and am I enough? And am I good enough?
Speaker 2: Which which I'm not going to pretend goes away magically,
Speaker 2: I don't think that's true. I think you're always wrestling
Speaker 2: with it to a point. But it's interesting that when
Speaker 2: we've got the most of that, we're still really riddled
Speaker 2: with anxiety about it. We don't long for those days.
Speaker 2: How many times people say I wouldn't be a teenager
Speaker 2: again for a quid?
Speaker 3: I think what's interesting also about your fifties is that
Speaker 3: a lot of your choices have closed off right, and
Speaker 3: there can be a lot of angst with a lot
Speaker 3: of choice. That's why women should never have been given
Speaker 3: the vote or control over our own finances or deciding
Speaker 3: we marry. So in your twenties it's about who you're
Speaker 3: going to be, and in your thirties, You're a bit
Speaker 3: like am I doing this right? And the very wise stage?
Speaker 3: Jennifer and Neiston once said you need to have therapin
Speaker 3: your thirties so that you can enjoy your forties. And
Speaker 3: I think that's true too, because by you forties, I
Speaker 3: get why Oprah said forty four, because I think when
Speaker 3: you go into your late forties, I personally had a
Speaker 3: lot of doubt creep back in again, like I found
Speaker 3: with perimenopause and everything. Who am I identity? I got
Speaker 3: really lost again in my late forties and early fifties.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm getting back to it mostly now,
Speaker 3: but I found that time almost reminiscent of my twenties
Speaker 3: in that who am I? Am I doing this right?
Speaker 3: What am I meant to be? I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2: Does this make you hopeful for your future?
Speaker 1: For my forties? Yeah, can't wait?
Speaker 3: Yeah, way, forties are really good.
Speaker 4: Also, Dolly Alderton has an agony on column in the
Speaker 4: Sunday Times where she answers dilemmas, and last week someone
Speaker 4: wrote in saying, dear Dolly, I'm thirty two with a
Speaker 4: great career, but very very single. So this woman who
Speaker 4: wrote in say that she loves her career. She's found
Speaker 4: her place at work, but it's not the source of
Speaker 4: her joy, and all she wants to do is get
Speaker 4: into a long term loving relationship. And she also has
Speaker 4: kids on her mind, and she says that she doesn't
Speaker 4: want kids unless she finds someone who's like a partner
Speaker 4: that she can have kids with. So Dolly gave a
Speaker 4: list of advice, and some of the things she says
Speaker 4: was get ahead of your fertility, like.
Speaker 3: Just her manifesto, not.
Speaker 1: Yet, it's not her manifesto yet.
Speaker 4: Some of the other things she said was get ahead
Speaker 4: of your fertility, make single girlfriends who are also in
Speaker 4: their thirties.
Speaker 2: Sorry, what does that mean, get ahead of your fertility,
Speaker 2: freeze your eggs, or just like check it out, just get.
Speaker 4: Get a handle and get a handle on it before
Speaker 4: you meet someone. Make single girlfriends who are also in
Speaker 4: their thirties asked to be set up, which I know
Speaker 4: Amelia would definitely say yes.
Speaker 1: To change the pattern.
Speaker 4: So don't just date your type or people in your
Speaker 4: area or people on the same app that you're using.
Speaker 4: Don't obsess over your age. And then she wrote, write
Speaker 4: a single girl's manifesto. So she said when in years
Speaker 4: even twenty twenty two, she got together with a friend
Speaker 4: over Spicy Marks and they wrote everything that they wanted
Speaker 4: from dating, and she said the premise was what we
Speaker 4: would accept from dating and what we wouldn't how we
Speaker 4: wanted to balance the task of looking for a partner
Speaker 4: while remaining present and grateful in our lives as they were.
Speaker 3: I love that because it's not about what they wanted
Speaker 3: in a man particularly or a partner. It was what
Speaker 3: they wanted in the process, in.
Speaker 4: The process of dating, And she says, I think it
Speaker 4: helped us shed some panic and find more calm, joyful
Speaker 4: intention in our single dim. When I read this manifesto
Speaker 4: exactly what she said, I immediately felt calm, Like it's
Speaker 4: one of those big pieces where you read all of
Speaker 4: these little points that she has and it makes you
Speaker 4: realize there are women also in their thirties who are
Speaker 4: going through the same thing you're going through mentally we're dating,
Speaker 4: and then putting it all on a piece of paper
Speaker 4: just makes you go, okay, okay, kind of tellus, tell
Speaker 4: us what's on there. So she shared hers and her friends,
Speaker 4: and she said, we are open to connecting with people
Speaker 4: we least expect. We are not driven by long held
Speaker 4: ideas of who our future partners should be.
Speaker 3: No DJs, no preconceptions except DJs.
Speaker 1: DJs.
Speaker 4: We recognize that any self esteem issues and past experience
Speaker 4: with rejection are entirely our jobs to address and not
Speaker 4: the responsibility of a man.
Speaker 1: We are dating. That's very therapy, that's very therapy.
Speaker 4: We do not convince ourselves that we like a man
Speaker 4: we are not interested in because he has withdrawn his attention.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Or I would always like people just because
Speaker 3: they liked me. I felt this was somehow obliged to
Speaker 3: like them back.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, somebody like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, oh, he likes me, And it didn't
Speaker 3: occur to me that you don't like him, I think
Speaker 3: because I'd internalized that idea about you don't want to
Speaker 3: make him out uncomfortable or embarrassed. You don't want to
Speaker 3: disappoint a man.
Speaker 5: So to.
Speaker 4: We know that Aaron Taylor Johnson is the exception and
Speaker 4: not the rule, and that most men under the age
Speaker 4: of thirty two are not emotionally advanced or equipped with
Speaker 4: enough self knowledge to commit in the way we want
Speaker 4: to deserve.
Speaker 2: So that is her stay away from younger men. So
Speaker 2: Aaron Taylor Johnson is a young British actor who ran
Speaker 2: away with the director Sam Wood. She's called Yeah Yes,
Speaker 2: and he starred in a movie that she made and
Speaker 2: he was really young.
Speaker 3: I think he was like nineteen.
Speaker 1: He was really young.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so they're still married to the age difference
Speaker 2: was really significant and they're very happy, happily married and
Speaker 2: have kids whatever. And I think the point of that
Speaker 2: is that when a lot of women get newly single
Speaker 2: and they get you get into some situationships with hot
Speaker 2: young men.
Speaker 1: He's a bit of a like a patron stay. They're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but look at what happened with Aaron Taylor Wood.
Speaker 2: And I think she's making the point. Yeah, but that's
Speaker 2: not the normal. Yeah, they're usually just trying a few
Speaker 2: things on Bridget Jones four, one hundred and two.
Speaker 4: What about we run a mile from men who are
Speaker 4: nasty about their ex girl, that's a huge one.
Speaker 2: You should have that tattooed on your hands and mother's
Speaker 2: that's the other thing one of the lines that my
Speaker 2: I think my.
Speaker 1: Mother probably told me.
Speaker 2: Of course, like a man who isn't nice to his
Speaker 2: mother one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: This has become such a thing. When I was having
Speaker 4: drinks with my friends. My friend had just gone on
Speaker 4: a date with this guy and she was like, it
Speaker 4: was perfect, it was amazing. He called his ex girlfriend crazy,
Speaker 4: and then we were like, ah, yeah, so you.
Speaker 1: See him again. I went on a date with a
Speaker 1: guy once.
Speaker 2: We went to yom Cha, right, and he was putting
Speaker 2: loads of chili on his dumplings and he was saying, Oh,
Speaker 2: it's so nice to be able to put chili on
Speaker 2: my dumplings because my ex girlfriend hated chili. And then
Speaker 2: he said, so sometimes I just put it in things
Speaker 2: just to piss her off because she.
Speaker 3: Was all which is very okay. I think it's very
Speaker 3: Brad Pitt coated as well. We're talking about that on
Speaker 3: yesterday's subscriber episode about how well wouldn't that be a
Speaker 3: red flag for his new girlfriend that none of his
Speaker 3: keeps trying to sue his ex wife and none of
Speaker 3: his kids are speaking to him.
Speaker 4: We hope and wish that the women we know and
Speaker 4: love are granted all the things we want most. We
Speaker 4: celebrate when these things happen. We know that it takes
Speaker 4: nothing from us and our future.
Speaker 2: That's a mantra that you repeat to yourself while rocking
Speaker 2: in a corner because your friend is, you know, having
Speaker 2: something that you want.
Speaker 4: But it's such a it's such a very true and
Speaker 4: Dolly said that two months after they both wrote this manifesto,
Speaker 4: friend met her husband.
Speaker 3: I really like this because what it does is that
Speaker 3: it really formalizes an attitude about a process. Rather than
Speaker 3: looking at the end point of that process and the
Speaker 3: outcome that you want, it's actually looking at the journey
Speaker 3: and the experience that you want to have along the way,
Speaker 3: and how you can try and make sure you don't
Speaker 3: sort of make too many wrong turns and go down
Speaker 3: to too many dead ends. And it's about it's all
Speaker 3: about we. It's about what we want, not what he
Speaker 3: should be. Jesse made a list.
Speaker 1: But she did make the list.
Speaker 2: She Didni Boley told her to do it because she
Speaker 2: also made a list.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Jesse wrote a list.
Speaker 2: And then she said that when she and Lucramen dating
Speaker 2: for a while and she looked back at the list, Yeah, a.
Speaker 1: Lot of the things were on there.
Speaker 3: That was more about what she wanted in a partner,
Speaker 3: Wasn't it like humor? I just think kindness is the
Speaker 3: most top underrated virtue in a partner. Kindness top of
Speaker 3: the list every time, and nice shoulders.
Speaker 1: And leg hair.
Speaker 4: After the break, our very best rerecos to help set
Speaker 4: up your weekend.
Speaker 5: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 3: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 4: It is Friday, and we want to set up your
Speaker 4: weekend with our very best recommendations.
Speaker 1: Who wants to go? I will?
Speaker 2: Mine's a little bit funny on first pass. It's do
Speaker 2: you call them hairbands, hair elastics, hair ties, hair tied?
Speaker 3: I never say hair ties. I think that feels American.
Speaker 4: Hair is a big one you put over your Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's hair tie, elastics, hair elastic.
Speaker 3: No, maybe I say hair band in headband is the
Speaker 3: one that you put over their hair band?
Speaker 1: I say a hairband, They say hair lackeys. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure short for elastic.
Speaker 3: Anyway. I know that sounds a little bit like sad
Speaker 3: just saying it's a hair tye. But I have found
Speaker 3: a type of hair tie that is a cult and
Speaker 3: a collectible. There are seven hundred color combinations and there
Speaker 3: are seasonal drops. What I know they're called kiniki headbands
Speaker 3: wire hair bands, which almost always makes me think of
Speaker 3: Kiniki and Grease, the character the kind of do weeby one.
Speaker 3: I first discovered them when I ordered a bunch of
Speaker 3: pillows from a friend of the pod Jumbled, which is
Speaker 3: a fantastic store in Orange and they're online. They self
Speaker 3: fashion Homewar's art. I buy loads of things from there,
Speaker 3: and so I ordered a whole lot of pillows for
Speaker 3: my couch and they they sent just a few of
Speaker 3: these just as a little present. And I've never seen
Speaker 3: anything like them. They are brightly colored.
Speaker 1: I thought they were like bracelets, yes.
Speaker 3: And that's why I like them. They're brightly colored, they
Speaker 3: have a backstory. They're woven, not molded, so they're very
Speaker 3: very good and gentle on your hair. There they have
Speaker 3: over sixty interwoven threads and they are made on Korean
Speaker 3: vintage looms from the nineteen sixties that were originally built
Speaker 3: to make upholstery webbing. That's some little fun fact research
Speaker 3: no metal, no snag, no crease, but the fact that
Speaker 3: they come in all these amazing colors. I wear them
Speaker 3: all day every day, like I just choose some nice
Speaker 3: colored ones and it doesn't leave that sort of red
Speaker 3: you know, valley around your cut off your circulation around
Speaker 3: your wrist. They're decoratives.
Speaker 1: They're like thin scrunchies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they don't crease your hair when you put.
Speaker 1: By like that.
Speaker 2: So the thing that I lose most often in my house.
Speaker 2: I'm always running around my house going has anyone seen
Speaker 2: a hair tie?
Speaker 1: I need some of those.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a word for the feeling, the very specific, intense
Speaker 3: feeling of when you need a hair tye because you
Speaker 3: just have to put your hair back. I feel like
Speaker 3: there needs to be a word for that out louders
Speaker 3: help us out because it is. It's such a specific
Speaker 3: feeling and it's actually quite unbearable. It is that you
Speaker 3: can't find the hair tye.
Speaker 1: Really angry.
Speaker 3: It does desperate even.
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm also recommending a product. It is a blush.
Speaker 4: I'm wearing it right now. It's from Merit and it's
Speaker 4: in the color Fox, but they have thirteen different shades.
Speaker 2: Can I put my hand up and ask what merit is?
Speaker 2: Because I've seen this everywhere, but I've never.
Speaker 1: It's seen it.
Speaker 4: You would have seen it all over your TikTok. It's
Speaker 4: like the It's Girl beauty brand of the season. It
Speaker 4: came into Australia recently in the past few years. You
Speaker 4: can buy their products from their website and they now
Speaker 4: ship directly to Australia. It is kind of I would
Speaker 4: say pricey aside, the blush itself is forty eight dollars.
Speaker 1: That is exy rasy for me. It's fine for some
Speaker 1: other people.
Speaker 3: Did you buy it from the website?
Speaker 4: I bought it from the website when they came into Australia.
Speaker 1: But it's one of those blushes that I use for everything.
Speaker 3: Is there anywhere I can touch it?
Speaker 1: I've got it on my desk.
Speaker 3: No, But like, is it sold in a shop or only.
Speaker 1: You can't get it?
Speaker 4: I thought you could get into four but it's only
Speaker 4: in the USA, so it's only their website you can
Speaker 4: get it from. I bought it after our beauty editor
Speaker 4: Aaron recommended it.
Speaker 3: How did you know if you were buying online what
Speaker 3: color to get? If there were thirteen different colors.
Speaker 1: Of blood have?
Speaker 4: They put them in like little category so they have
Speaker 4: like a pop of color category, and then in a
Speaker 4: neutrals category and then in a darker category. And I
Speaker 4: always go neutraols with blush because I feel like with
Speaker 4: my skin tone and they sit better. So this is
Speaker 4: kind of like a warm talk. You can also see
Speaker 4: which ones are cool which ones are warm depending on
Speaker 4: your color here and is it a stick, is it
Speaker 4: a powder? What is it's a little pot. It's a
Speaker 4: cream blush. I've also got it on my eyelids and
Speaker 4: on my lips, so I use it for all three.
Speaker 4: And that's why I feel like I will keep buying
Speaker 4: it because the price point for me is extually.
Speaker 1: But because I use it for all three, I like it.
Speaker 3: Have you got anything on over it on your lips?
Speaker 1: Just lined it. I've just lined my lips.
Speaker 3: And then it looks quite moist.
Speaker 1: It's all in the middle. Yeah, because it's creamy.
Speaker 2: Then you've got a bit of a shimmer on your cheek.
Speaker 2: It's very nice, I have to say.
Speaker 4: And then because it's so good for travel, you just
Speaker 4: need the one pot for all three. They have so
Speaker 4: many different shades. So if you want to check it out,
Speaker 4: highly recommend it to marry It will put a link
Speaker 4: to the website for you.
Speaker 2: I am recommending something that I have a suspicion i've
Speaker 2: recommended before, but that's because I love it and it's
Speaker 2: been a way a long time and it's back. And
Speaker 2: that is the new season of Kitchen Cabinet with Annabel Crab.
Speaker 3: Who's she interviewing.
Speaker 2: First episode was the Prime Minister Now, so em said
Speaker 2: to me, what's kitchen cabinet?
Speaker 1: And I went, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: And then our social producer test was like, what's kitchen cabinet?
Speaker 2: And they thought it was a cooking show. So I
Speaker 2: need to just quickly explain me and I would know
Speaker 2: that it's not quite a cooking show. And it kind
Speaker 2: of is too. It's a show where Annimal Crab who
Speaker 2: obviously has all the credibility as a political reporter at
Speaker 2: the ABC. She was for years, so she's very well
Speaker 2: versed in that world.
Speaker 3: And also someone who is an outstanding cook.
Speaker 1: Yes, loves cooking and baking.
Speaker 3: She's author of cookbooks.
Speaker 2: She has a show that she's been doing for years
Speaker 2: and years where she goes to a politician's house and
Speaker 2: they have to cook her dinner and she brings dessert
Speaker 2: and over the course of this quite short half hour,
Speaker 2: over the course of the episode, they have dinner and
Speaker 2: she you know, gets to the bottom of them.
Speaker 1: Right, do they talk politics?
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: The thing that's interesting about the show is in recent
Speaker 2: years it became quite it's become quite controversial because they
Speaker 2: do talk politics, but it isn't seven thirty, like she
Speaker 2: isn't grilling them. So, for example, the first episode of
Speaker 2: this one was with the Prime Minister as it should be,
Speaker 2: I guess, and she goes to the lodge and Albo
Speaker 2: cooks for her in the lodge kitchen.
Speaker 3: What does he cook?
Speaker 2: And they so the politician chooses what they're going to cook,
Speaker 2: and they always choose something that's going to tell us story.
Speaker 2: So he cooks a traditional Italian or a keta actually
Speaker 2: my mom makes this, or a ketti pasta with broccoli
Speaker 2: and Anchovi's, Oh, we love. He makes that, and obviously
Speaker 2: he has Italian heritage, so that's his thing. And she
Speaker 2: brings him homemade wagon Wheel biscuits because he grew up
Speaker 2: near a biscuit factory in Marrickville. Right over the course
Speaker 2: of this short interview, you discover that Albo is very
Speaker 2: anal like obsessed with the.
Speaker 3: Word I didn't expect to hear. I'm just imagining. I
Speaker 3: was thinking about wagon wheel to say that, and I
Speaker 3: was thinking about beautiful pasta, and now we're talking about.
Speaker 1: He is obsessed with prosit process.
Speaker 2: He doesn't like any of his food to touch each
Speaker 2: other except for Pastor that's allowed obviously, and he doesn't
Speaker 2: like Amanavella in his kitchen with him.
Speaker 1: So, like, it's one of those shows watching you just.
Speaker 2: Learn about the person and then when they sit down,
Speaker 2: she does grill him a bit on politics in terms
Speaker 2: of she says, what do you think young Albo would think?
Speaker 2: You know, the one who protested about X y Z.
Speaker 2: What do you think he'd think about you?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 2: Like, so she doesn't age would you like to go
Speaker 2: back to Yes, she does bring that, but it's not
Speaker 2: a grilling.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: That's why it became kind of controversial in recent years
Speaker 2: because I think as our political discourse has become more heated,
Speaker 2: a lot of people are like, how very dare you
Speaker 2: go to this person's house and present them like a human.
Speaker 2: So during the course of this season, she's going to
Speaker 2: go to all the politicians' houses. Right, whether or not
Speaker 2: she's got Hanson, nobody quite knows. Maybe me or no,
Speaker 2: She's not going to tell me, but she's the second
Speaker 2: one was with Angus Taylor, said, the leader of the opposition.
Speaker 2: In the past, she's been to Barnaby Joyce's house, she's
Speaker 2: been to Scomo's house, she's been a Pete Dunton's house.
Speaker 2: She goes to everyone's house.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the reason I like it do you get to
Speaker 1: see the house? A You get to see the house.
Speaker 2: And the thing that's funny about this is Albo's dog
Speaker 2: is just constantly running up and down the stairs behind them.
Speaker 3: And you're just getting steps in.
Speaker 1: What's Toto doing?
Speaker 2: I don't know anyway, But is that, even without the grilling,
Speaker 2: you learn so much about somebody. So I remember in
Speaker 2: Pete Dutton's one, she was asking him questions about his
Speaker 2: time as a police officer and stuff that was really
Speaker 2: revealing to his character without her sitting there and going
Speaker 2: you think this, and you think that. So I find
Speaker 2: it really interesting. I also think it never does any
Speaker 2: harm us any harm to remember that everybody is human,
Speaker 2: whether you like them or not, or agree them or not.
Speaker 2: And I really find it. I really like the format.
Speaker 2: I really like that. Not everybody does, but I do anyway.
Speaker 1: So it's back.
Speaker 2: It's been off air for a year, for a good
Speaker 2: few years. I'm delighted to see it back. The first
Speaker 2: two are up and then it's going to drop week
Speaker 2: to week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I watch this.
Speaker 3: I agree with you. I have absolutely no time for
Speaker 3: people who want to not humanize anyone not you know
Speaker 3: that everything has to be antagonistic, and that if you
Speaker 3: somehow talk to someone you don't agree with, that means
Speaker 3: you're endorsing everything they've ever said, everything they've ever done.
Speaker 2: And even if you watch it, like I think I've
Speaker 2: probably watched all of them, and I never walk away going, oh,
Speaker 2: you know what, I really agree with all that guy's
Speaker 2: policies now that I really couldn't agree with before, because
Speaker 2: I'm a smart human being who can handle that, and
Speaker 2: most people are like I can handle hearing that point
Speaker 2: of view without it meaning that I've signed off on
Speaker 2: that point of view.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It drives me crazy because these people only say
Speaker 3: it about the people they disagree with. They're very happy
Speaker 3: for the people they agree with to be portrayed in
Speaker 3: whatever positive light, but if they don't agree somehow, it
Speaker 3: means that that can't No one can have a comboise so.
Speaker 2: Be I mean, you know, Annabel Krab, who has bags
Speaker 2: of credibility in political reporting, she like, her questions are great.
Speaker 2: She's not you know, she's not in any way letting
Speaker 2: everybody off the hook. Like and also she does it
Speaker 2: very She always does across the political spectrum. So she'll
Speaker 2: going to a Green's house, a national house, a labor house,
Speaker 2: a liberal house. It's like, I find that really interesting. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: it's a great show. It's back and also part of
Speaker 2: the fun it is seeing what Annabel bakes. How is
Speaker 2: she such a good baker who makes their own wagon wheel?
Speaker 4: That's insane. I need to see those immediately. It's on
Speaker 4: ABC IVW Friends.
Speaker 3: She's just phenomenal.
Speaker 2: Oh, We've got one more reco because there's a new
Speaker 2: Mama Mia show this week, and I believe that it's
Speaker 2: for your people, em and by that I mean the
Speaker 2: young one.
Speaker 4: So Mom and Mia, we have a new gen Z podcast.
Speaker 4: It's a comedy podcast. It's hosted by two girls here
Speaker 4: in the office.
Speaker 1: Live and Live.
Speaker 2: Oh you'll know at least one of the Lives because
Speaker 2: she is so great on social it's so funny.
Speaker 4: Live James if you you might know her name. She's
Speaker 4: always on our Instagram. She does these video explainers and
Speaker 4: she's so good at them. Live Coleman also really funny.
Speaker 4: They're both in their twenties and what they do is
Speaker 4: they go through the comments and all of these viral
Speaker 4: tiktoks and viral Instagram videos and they kind of do
Speaker 4: it a big explainer on what's happening about this viral
Speaker 4: moment just through the comments and the dynamic is so good,
Speaker 4: so funny.
Speaker 1: I think the first episode comes out this week.
Speaker 3: It does came out yesterday. It's I love this show
Speaker 3: because I learn, like I don't understand a lot of it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but it's you know how sometimes you can just be like,
Speaker 3: what's that I don't understand? And I just listened to
Speaker 3: this and it keeps me. I feel like it keeps
Speaker 3: me in touch with what gen Z's are talking about.
Speaker 1: And they're so themselves.
Speaker 4: Live James recently did an explainer on The Odyssey before
Speaker 4: you go watch it. Oh, I loved it, and it's
Speaker 4: so funny because she pronounces all the names wrong and
Speaker 4: she's like, you know what, I don't care.
Speaker 1: It went absolutely via.
Speaker 2: I love that. We said that in the promo for
Speaker 2: it was like with Sada, there weren't enough shows out
Speaker 2: there that were hosted by two.
Speaker 1: Two women called live in their twenties. Try to get
Speaker 1: it's true. You have to find a gap in the mask.
Speaker 3: Now I have a listen, we'll put a link in
Speaker 3: our show notes.
Speaker 1: That is all we have time for today.
Speaker 2: Out loudert, thank you for being with us all week.
Speaker 2: It has been a joy as ever. Thank you to
Speaker 2: our team and we will be back into your ears
Speaker 2: on Monday.
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye.
Speaker 4: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
Speaker 4: which we have recorded this podcast.