WEBVTT - Lena’s Revenge, Harry’s Secret Tea & Clare Calls In 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.360 Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out loud. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:08.320 It's what women are talking about on Monday, the thirteenth 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:10.559 of July. My name is Holly Wayne right, and we 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:14.760 have a new family member. We do Claire Stephens, who's 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:16.639 our co host on this show, who was filling in 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.120 for her sister, Jesse Stephens, who is on matt leave. 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.239 Then Claire went on Matt Lee and she has had 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.320 a baby boy and she did not take your name advice. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.960 She didn't, but she did pick a very very cute name. 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.479 She called him Darcy, and now we have to call 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:33.479 him mister Darcy. 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:35.600 Who are you? 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:36.880 I'm m Vernon. 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:41.080 I'm replacing Claire who's been on Mattley, replacing Jesse, And 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:42.720 oh my god, can these twins get back. 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.199 To Welcome, Welcome to being on our Mondays and Wednesdays 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:45.680 with the same one. 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:46.120 I love you. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:47.680 I'm Amelia Lester. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.400 I'm sure you are going to hear from our Clare 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.200 Stephens soon. But in the interim, massive love from all 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:58.120 the out louders to you and little baby Darcy and Milda, Matilda, 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.840 Moondilda and all of you. 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.040 Here's what's made our agenda. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:11.480 If only Claire had taken a suggestion called the baby Brent. 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:16.240 I wouldn't be stumbling over these names. Darcy is very cute. Okay, 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:17.800 here's what's made our agenda for today. 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.559 The King did have Harry and Meg's round for tea 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:25.720 on the weekend, is I know, even though it was 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:27.800 a very bad week for Harry in many other ways, 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.840 including a very intriguing story about a journalist and a pill. 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.400 Plus, there's a new type of group activity that's gaining 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.880 traction and I am one hundred percent on board with 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:39.720 this one. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.200 And has Lena Dunham one at life? I share the 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:44.080 evidence with you. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:49.120 But first in case she missed it. Cruz Hewitt not 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.280 to be confused with Cruz Beckham, even though they actually 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.920 have a lot in common. Was that Wimbledon in the 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.560 finals of the boys tennis and I only found this 0:01:58.600 --> 0:01:59.040 out today. 0:01:59.040 --> 0:01:59.560 Did you know this? 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:04.080 I mean, but the name Cruise Hewett is confusing because 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.800 I think cruise is just a name for NEPO babies. 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:08.200 At this point, do. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.920 We know any real life cruises. I don't know the 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.640 cruise you're currently speaking about. I also didn't know Wilberden 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:16.960 was on so many things today. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:18.560 There's a lot of fashion. You've got to go look 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.359 at the Wimbledon fashion. It's been interested in very ott. 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:23.959 You're in the sports chair here at mum and me 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:25.799 are out loud, so you better. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.000 Step it up, okay. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.160 I was very interested in this because along with the 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.280 news that I read this morning that Angelina Jolie and 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.959 Brad Pitt's youngest children, they're twins, are about turn eighteen. Wow, 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.560 this is a big week for jen X because both 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:41.280 these bits. 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:42.360 Of news made me feel very old. 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.200 Because the reason that I'm invested in Cruz Hewitt, who 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.760 is the son to catch everybody up of Layton Hewitt 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:48.760 and Beck Hewitt. 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:50.880 I know Beck Hewett, Yes, there you going away? 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.919 Is that back in my Gossip magazine days they were 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:59.119 the Beckhams of Australia. So every one of these babies, 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.280 they've got three children. Cruise I think is the middle one, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.600 so they've got two girls and crews in the middle 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:10.160 got their own magazine deals when they were born. Leyton 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.160 and Beck's wedding was an enormous exclusive production at the 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.520 Sydney Opera House and at Taronga Zoo that they sold 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:18.720 to New Idea. And I was working at Women's Day 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.200 in those days. So it was like magazine wars and 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.320 we were trying to pap it and ruin their life. 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.080 I'm sorry, I'm what, But anyway, they. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.200 Were the biggest deal, the Hewitts when they got together. 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:33.680 I remember when I went to work at Women's Day, 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.200 the boss lady there said to me, We're going to 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.880 put beck Hewitt on the cover every second week because 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.280 she sells. It doesn't matter if she hasn't done anything, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.000 it doesn't matter if she hasn't gone anywhere, said anything, 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:46.840 just living her life. 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.960 We are doing a becuit cover every second week. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:50.880 Strategy were huge. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:56.280 Don't know Jan Anniston Magazine's time and then magazine died. 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:57.640 Was I part of that? 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:58.000 Probably? 0:03:58.080 --> 0:03:58.240 Yes? 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:05.360 Anyway, fast forward forward and Cruz Hewitt is seventeen years 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.760 old and he played in the finals at Wimbledon, not 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.040 in the men's but in the boys and that's huge. 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:13.839 He's following in his dad's footsteps. 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.240 That's really nice. So his dad's side of the family. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.160 I learned her all very very sporty, and he's going 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:21.000 very much down. You know what this reminds me of. 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.840 It reminds me of when we learned that Cody Simpson 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.000 was trying out for the Olympics and we were like, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.320 Cody Swims, He's meant to be singing. I know, does 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:31.120 it feel like this for you? 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.920 Well, except that Leyton Hewitt is a massive tennis player 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.320 and he's probably Australia's one of Australia's most famous ever 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.880 male tennis players, and the fact that his son is 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.440 a tennis player is not that surprising, but the fact 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.120 that he's at that level, that he's playing at Wimbledon 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.640 blew me away. And apparently Layton doesn't coach him. This 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:51.720 isn't a NEPO babysitch in that way. He's got his 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.080 own coach, his own team. But obviously Leyton and Beck 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.320 and the girls were there and the sidelines turning him on. 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.960 I'm he didn't win. Oh, just to spoiler, he didn't win, 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.440 but getting to the final is huge. Congrats to him 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:05.760 and I am officially old. 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:11.880 Has Lena Dunham won life? She was famesick according to 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.719 the title of her memoir, But now the girl's creator 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.600 has entered something of a golden age. And I got 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.120 thinking about this because there was a tweet this weekend. 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:23.640 It went out with a picture of Lena in this 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.159 beautiful blue CARDI flashing the VF victory sign. And this 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.880 was not Lena Dunnam's tweet. This was an observer's tweet, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.760 and the tweet read Adam Driver hasn't been seen in weeks, 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:38.640 Jack Antonoff maybe getting divorced Jenny Connor in Witness Protection 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.320 the headline at Taylor Swift's wedding. 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.279 You know, you that bitch when you cause all this conversation. 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.640 If that was about me, I'd have that framed in 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:48.239 my bedroom. 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:49.360 Yeah, it's good, is it it? 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.400 Let's unpack it, and then I want to figure out 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.200 how she wanted life. So, first of all, Adam Driver 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.680 hasn't been seen in weeks. I didn't know how true 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.640 this was. But ever since Lena's memoir came out and 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:03.640 mentioned that he threw a chair at the wall, that 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.920 was kind of the big headline from the book, they 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.040 had an argument he threw a chair at the wall 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.960 during the filming of Girls. It's true that Driver's star 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.440 has seemed a little bit dimmed since then. So he's 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.279 only said, in response to the chair throwing anecdote that 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.760 he's saving his side of the story for my book. 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:21.840 I don't that's all he said. 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:21.920 No. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:23.160 I think it was mostly a joke. 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:25.600 But I did look up headlines about him in the 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.599 past two weeks and there were two headlines. One he 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.600 is selling his Brooklyn Heights home, which Lena mentions was 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.520 opposite hers, so clearly he just wants to close the 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.400 chapter on that part of his life. Two that he 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.039 has an intense dinosaur movie coming to Prime Video. And 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.800 you're an entertainment person. Have you heard anything of his 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:46.200 intense dinosaur movie. 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.200 I haven't, but I do know he was in an 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.000 intense dinosaur movie a few years ago. I think it 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.120 was called sixty three. He's very good in it. But 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.000 there is a dinosaur movie coming out with Ann Hathway. 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:56.760 Maybe he's in that one. 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.200 I just think he's not quite where he used to be. 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:01.599 That's what I'm taking. It's quite hard to. 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:02.599 Act alongside dynasties. 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.120 I just have to check that I've got this narrative straight. 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:12.520 How much ex love interests are suffering indicates how well 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:13.000 we're doing. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:15.760 So is that what you're trying to say? 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:17.679 No, I think it's not that he's an ex love interest. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.280 It's that all the people that Lena maybe had beef 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.080 with who she outlined the beef's in her book. 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.440 However, subtly those people. 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.720 Are now not doing as well because Lena kind of 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:32.520 outlined her arguments with them in her book. 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.760 I feel like, as a person who's had previous exes, 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.640 if they had some sort of downfall, I obviously would 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.040 in publicly be happy about it. 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.720 But I will smile and I don't see. I don't 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:47.760 think there's anything wrong with that. 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.960 And to be clear, like Adam Driver is not her 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.160 ex love interest in real life. He played her love 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:55.960 interest on the show. It's sort of like if you 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.520 have a colleague, an ex colleague you don't really like, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.160 who's now doing badly, you're sort of happier about. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:02.760 They nearly did, didn't they? 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.120 In the book there was like one night when it 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.720 was going to happen and went no. 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.160 But the big piece of evidence here is around Jack Antonoff, 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.120 because news broke in the last few days that he 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.360 and wife Margaret Qually are in fact separated after three 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.360 years of marriage. They got married in this big ceremony Tellers, 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:23.480 which was there. 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:24.840 It was a huge deal. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:27.920 Now Jack doesn't come off so well only in his book, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.240 and now he's getting divorced coincidence. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.440 Not a coincidence. I'm going to say. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.520 This is years ago. These guys broke up, like ten 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:41.040 years ago. 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.120 Yeah, but an excellent. 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:44.160 X X isn't X. 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.360 And then there's the headline at Telisa's wedding, which is 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.600 because Lena gave a speech at the wedding and this 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.400 has been pretty well verified now where she said American football, 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.760 which is what Travis Kelsey plays, is just straight guys 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:01.120 re enacting gay porn. Apparently this drew both gasps and 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.000 lasts from the audience. Taylor loved it. Lena seemed to 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.679 reference it in a later Instagram saying she was available 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.280 for other weddings and by mitzvahs. So we kind of 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.720 can assume now that she did in fact say this. 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:17.120 She's she's clearly loving life right now. Everything's going her way. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.640 And how do you think Lena came through the fame 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.120 sick era and sort of just won everything. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.559 I really love how before Lena put out her memoir, 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.000 she probably saw mel Robbins getting in a lot of 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.719 traction for let them, and she was like. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.880 You know what, no, don't let them, never let them. Don't. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:40.839 And we're seeing what happens when you don't let them. 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.360 And what I think happened with her fame Sick memoir, 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:50.439 She've Come. She came across so likable because she reminded 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.959 herself when she was writing this that she was so unlikable, 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:55.679 and she doesn't shy away from that. 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:56.760 We always talk. 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.560 About the people she quote unquote burned in the memoir, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.160 but she also talked really honestly about herself as an 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.440 unlikable person, and she talked about how she cheated, and 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.040 she talked about how she didn't like people who didn't 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.280 like her, and she talked about how she thought she 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.520 was the best thing to give to art, and that 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.080 is all very unlikable things to say when you're talking 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.800 about yourself. And I think because she was so honest 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.400 in that aspect, it did the opposite where she came 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.480 across as someone who was just very honest and vulnerable, 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:25.760 and we liked that about her. 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:27.400 She is Anna bashadly herself. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.439 Think about the outfit she wore to Taylor's rehearsal dinner, 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.960 because yes, she did get invited to the smaller event 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:39.080 on Thursday night. It was a chartruse green satin skirt suit. 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.480 I saw someone describe it as looking like the Grinch's publicist. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:44.199 But that was a. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.359 Compliment, like she looked amazing. She is just fully herself 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:49.200 at this point. 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.560 Its age, This is all it is like she Lena 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.920 Dunham was so young when she became so successful, and 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.439 the world was horrible to her. And I mean, I 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.160 don't know if we read the same book, but I 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.520 didn't think that she burned Jack anton Off in that book. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:07.160 I thought she that was a very even description of 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.400 a long relationship falling apart. But still I think what 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.960 happened to her is the Internet and the world gave 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:15.520 her an absolute hiding and. 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.640 It was awful. And she describes that a lot in 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:18.080 that book. 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.320 And most tellingly, the whole book is dedicated to the 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.920 people who did not make it through fame, everybody from 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.800 Marilyn Monroe to Caroline Flack and lie and Payne and 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.319 Amy Winehouse, and it's the book is a story about 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.400 what happens when your life gets swallowed by this pursuit, 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.839 by your ambition, and then how much the world hates 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.480 ambitious women, which it generally does. And I think that 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.920 where Lena is now is she went away right and 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:46.360 this I'm not saying that's a good thing or a 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:46.640 bad thing. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:47.200 But she did. 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.360 This is how she got through fame. Yes, this is 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:50.560 your outlining the strategy. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.719 She went away and she grew up and she did 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.240 other work that wasn't all Lena focused. And I don't 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.360 mean again, I'm not criticizing her like because she wreckees 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.360 that for reasons that were entirely unfair. In my opinion, 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.239 she had become the story and the problem and everybody's 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:10.320 favorite whipping child in the sort of teens twenty teens. 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.959 I think this is age. She has just turned forty. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.720 She has written an extraordinarily good book. If this book 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.400 was just slandering people and dissing everybody and all that, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.040 it wouldn't have been the hit that it has been. 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.800 She executed the strategy of promoting the book brilliantly, and 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.800 now she can kind of just she's it's also how 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.200 you can be with fame and money when you don't 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.480 need it anymore, Like you can hold it lightly when 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.120 you're young and you're and you're hustling and you're trying 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.600 to get to where you need to go, you have 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:46.880 to hold it all so tightly. And I think now 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.920 she's like, I don't need it. I've got nothing to prove. 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.240 Everybody like Girls has had a whole revisionist history in 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.680 terms of now it's in the cannon as being seen 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.280 as a really important piece of art. You know, her 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.120 story inter sex with so many really important cultural moments. 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:02.679 I reckon now, she's kind of like me. 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.840 I agree, but I'm fascinated with how she pulled it off, because, 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.559 as you point out at the start of the book, 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:13.520 she lists scores of people who couldn't come through fame 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.640 and didn't emerge the other side actually thriving and healthy 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:22.440 and happy. And it got me thinking about what fame 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.720 does to you. And I happened to come across an 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.960 interview that came out today. This is Mick Jagger being 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.080 interviewed on the New York Times Interview podcast, and he 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:36.360 said something specifically that I thought immediately of Lena, because 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.960 it talks about the worst time in your life that 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:40.000 you can become famous. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.360 I think you're psychologically your your actual state of mind 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:51.760 is permanently damaged by this or affected or I mean, 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.760 I think when you're in your late twenties and early 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.240 thirties is a very tough time for people in this 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.559 business because it's a big ego trip. 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.960 Basically, what do you think about that idea that like, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.160 she became famous at an especially vulnerable time, the time 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.720 of life when you're meant to be sort of coalescing 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.400 around your sense of self and everyone's telling you how 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.480 great you are because they're making so much money off you, 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.160 and it really messes with your sense of self. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.240 And somehow she didn't let it do that. 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:24.640 Well she did, and now she didn't, you know what 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.240 I mean. I think that the story here is she 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.040 went through it. She would say, getting sober was a 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.040 massive part of it for her, That's what she One 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.960 of the things she says, retreating from the spotlight to 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.480 go and live in London a huge part of it, 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.880 making like, you know, disconnecting herself from In the book 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.960 she talks about this, she was being pushed to but 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:48.400 also she was feeding it too, like constant buying into 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.400 the attention economy basically, and now she's come out of 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.560 it the other side, able to harness the attention economy 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:55.280 when she wants it. 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:57.680 I'm a little bit wary of saying it's done. 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:02.640 Like, you know, the world was particularly awful to women 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.240 at that time, but it still is and I want 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.480 and it particularly awful to women as they age. So 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.160 I think that from here, you know, we're in a 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.400 moment where people are recognizing that we had a really 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.920 we have a really special genius in done them in 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.680 lots of ways. It doesn't necessarily mean they're not going 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:21.880 to turn on it next week. 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.520 Also, I completely agree. I also feel like her memoir 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.480 acts as like a security blanket for her, and like 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.960 it shows that you have to give to get. I 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.160 feel like if she didn't have the memoir come out, 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.440 and if she wasn't back on social media posting and 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.320 on sub stack posting, and then the news came out 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.000 that she made that joker Taylor Swift's wedding after we 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.240 haven't heard from her in so many years, it would 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.000 have done the opposite of what it did. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:46.640 People would have. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.440 Been so mad, so angry at her, would have gone 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.120 back through the archives and been like, this isn't the 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.440 first time Lena Dunham stole the spotlight from someone. And 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.800 I think it's because she gave so much of herself 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:02.920 in that memoir to us kind of I'm now grabbing 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.400 for like any little thing she will say outside of 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.920 that because we are so again obsessed with her. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.200 Yeah, and I think we're obsessed with her because she 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:15.600 has been radically honest with us and with herself. I 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.000 think part of what Mick Jagger is getting out there 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.640 when he says that fame can really damage you is 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.760 that you end up. It seems to me observationally that 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.320 a lot of famous people end up believing what all 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.200 the sort of hangers on are telling them. But Lena 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.560 had to sort of reject the obsequiousness and the flattery, 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.360 put herself in rehab, go through a lot of medical issues, 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.720 and realize that that was ultimately empty in a way 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:43.320 that many other celebrities don't. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.400 I think that's absolutely true. I think the wisdom. I 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.760 mean it sounds trite, but the book outlines all of 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.480 the pain, literal pain she's been through living with really 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.160 chronic illness for a long time. She must have a 0:16:55.160 --> 0:17:02.240 lot of perspective on what matters now. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.280 For those of us. And I am in this clad. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.840 I am in this group because I am obsessed with Antonoff, 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.840 like his music, I mean not him personally, and so 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.680 many people were really invested in that market Quali Jack 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.680 Antonov relationship there are so many famous songs about it. 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.280 And anyway, if you're obsessed with that, we're going to 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.160 talk about it on Scoreless Gossip tomorrow for subscribers with me. 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.040 And look, dare I say it? I've got a couple 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.399 more Tailor stift wedding updates. I got to mention the 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.040 ladies please please. First of all, we still haven't seen 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.960 the dress, and I don't understand why is there a 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:36.800 strategy here and what is going on? 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:41.480 I am so like over Look, I have a confession 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.360 to our manager. I removed myself from the Taylor swift 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:46.920 By channel because I'm just off it. 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:48.760 I'm off it. I want to talk about something else. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:49.160 I'm done. 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.359 What I am interested in is how every update we 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.439 get about the Taylor wedding is from the Kelsey Brothers 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.520 official Instagram page. And I want to know if there's 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.359 a war between the Kelsey Others marketing team and the 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.680 Tailor Nation marketing team. Try to be giving them everything 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:06.520 and Tailor Nation. 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:07.920 Hasn't posted anything about the wedding. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.800 I've been trying to find you a credible theory, Amelia. 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:13.720 Do you want to hear the closest I've got? Tell 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:19.080 me when they got engaged. There were thirteen days between 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:23.399 the proposal and the post about the proposal. Thirteen is 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.000 a big number for Taylor. Yeah, for reasons that I 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.880 don't know. I think we're on day ten. 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:30.120 It's a birthday date, and. 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.600 So were I think we're on day ten if my 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:35.600 maths is correct. 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.520 Not favorite tifused, yea, they. 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.520 Do, and so it mate. 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.080 She may we didn't know we were waiting for the 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.399 engagement pictures though, did we write? So that was but 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.879 it was thirteen days, so that's like almost two weeks 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.600 to kind of let everything, get the pictures back from. 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.200 The photographer, Yeah, go through them. 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:54.879 Let her. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.119 She was seen at a wedding of one of Travis's 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.560 former teammates on the weekend. Maybe she wanted to make 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:00.760 sure they got their moment. 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.680 Maybe Jayla was just photo bombing all of the nice 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:04.560