Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out loud.
Speaker 2: It's what women are talking about on Monday, the thirteenth
Speaker 2: of July. My name is Holly Wayne right, and we
Speaker 2: have a new family member. We do Claire Stephens, who's
Speaker 2: our co host on this show, who was filling in
Speaker 2: for her sister, Jesse Stephens, who is on matt leave.
Speaker 2: Then Claire went on Matt Lee and she has had
Speaker 2: a baby boy and she did not take your name advice.
Speaker 3: She didn't, but she did pick a very very cute name.
Speaker 3: She called him Darcy, and now we have to call
Speaker 3: him mister Darcy.
Speaker 2: Who are you?
Speaker 4: I'm m Vernon.
Speaker 3: I'm replacing Claire who's been on Mattley, replacing Jesse, And
Speaker 3: oh my god, can these twins get back.
Speaker 2: To Welcome, Welcome to being on our Mondays and Wednesdays
Speaker 2: with the same one.
Speaker 4: I love you.
Speaker 5: I'm Amelia Lester.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you are going to hear from our Clare
Speaker 2: Stephens soon. But in the interim, massive love from all
Speaker 2: the out louders to you and little baby Darcy and Milda, Matilda,
Speaker 2: Moondilda and all of you.
Speaker 1: Here's what's made our agenda.
Speaker 2: If only Claire had taken a suggestion called the baby Brent.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be stumbling over these names. Darcy is very cute. Okay,
Speaker 1: here's what's made our agenda for today.
Speaker 2: The King did have Harry and Meg's round for tea
Speaker 2: on the weekend, is I know, even though it was
Speaker 2: a very bad week for Harry in many other ways,
Speaker 2: including a very intriguing story about a journalist and a pill.
Speaker 3: Plus, there's a new type of group activity that's gaining
Speaker 3: traction and I am one hundred percent on board with
Speaker 3: this one.
Speaker 6: And has Lena Dunham one at life? I share the
Speaker 6: evidence with you.
Speaker 2: But first in case she missed it. Cruz Hewitt not
Speaker 2: to be confused with Cruz Beckham, even though they actually
Speaker 2: have a lot in common. Was that Wimbledon in the
Speaker 2: finals of the boys tennis and I only found this
Speaker 2: out today.
Speaker 1: Did you know this?
Speaker 6: I mean, but the name Cruise Hewett is confusing because
Speaker 6: I think cruise is just a name for NEPO babies.
Speaker 5: At this point, do.
Speaker 3: We know any real life cruises. I don't know the
Speaker 3: cruise you're currently speaking about. I also didn't know Wilberden
Speaker 3: was on so many things today.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of fashion. You've got to go look
Speaker 2: at the Wimbledon fashion. It's been interested in very ott.
Speaker 6: You're in the sports chair here at mum and me
Speaker 6: are out loud, so you better.
Speaker 4: Step it up, okay.
Speaker 2: I was very interested in this because along with the
Speaker 2: news that I read this morning that Angelina Jolie and
Speaker 2: Brad Pitt's youngest children, they're twins, are about turn eighteen. Wow,
Speaker 2: this is a big week for jen X because both
Speaker 2: these bits.
Speaker 1: Of news made me feel very old.
Speaker 2: Because the reason that I'm invested in Cruz Hewitt, who
Speaker 2: is the son to catch everybody up of Layton Hewitt
Speaker 2: and Beck Hewitt.
Speaker 4: I know Beck Hewett, Yes, there you going away?
Speaker 2: Is that back in my Gossip magazine days they were
Speaker 2: the Beckhams of Australia. So every one of these babies,
Speaker 2: they've got three children. Cruise I think is the middle one,
Speaker 2: so they've got two girls and crews in the middle
Speaker 2: got their own magazine deals when they were born. Leyton
Speaker 2: and Beck's wedding was an enormous exclusive production at the
Speaker 2: Sydney Opera House and at Taronga Zoo that they sold
Speaker 2: to New Idea. And I was working at Women's Day
Speaker 2: in those days. So it was like magazine wars and
Speaker 2: we were trying to pap it and ruin their life.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm what, But anyway, they.
Speaker 2: Were the biggest deal, the Hewitts when they got together.
Speaker 2: I remember when I went to work at Women's Day,
Speaker 2: the boss lady there said to me, We're going to
Speaker 2: put beck Hewitt on the cover every second week because
Speaker 2: she sells. It doesn't matter if she hasn't done anything,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if she hasn't gone anywhere, said anything,
Speaker 2: just living her life.
Speaker 1: We are doing a becuit cover every second week.
Speaker 4: Strategy were huge.
Speaker 1: Don't know Jan Anniston Magazine's time and then magazine died.
Speaker 1: Was I part of that?
Speaker 4: Probably?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Anyway, fast forward forward and Cruz Hewitt is seventeen years
Speaker 2: old and he played in the finals at Wimbledon, not
Speaker 2: in the men's but in the boys and that's huge.
Speaker 2: He's following in his dad's footsteps.
Speaker 3: That's really nice. So his dad's side of the family.
Speaker 3: I learned her all very very sporty, and he's going
Speaker 3: very much down. You know what this reminds me of.
Speaker 3: It reminds me of when we learned that Cody Simpson
Speaker 3: was trying out for the Olympics and we were like,
Speaker 3: Cody Swims, He's meant to be singing. I know, does
Speaker 3: it feel like this for you?
Speaker 2: Well, except that Leyton Hewitt is a massive tennis player
Speaker 2: and he's probably Australia's one of Australia's most famous ever
Speaker 2: male tennis players, and the fact that his son is
Speaker 2: a tennis player is not that surprising, but the fact
Speaker 2: that he's at that level, that he's playing at Wimbledon
Speaker 2: blew me away. And apparently Layton doesn't coach him. This
Speaker 2: isn't a NEPO babysitch in that way. He's got his
Speaker 2: own coach, his own team. But obviously Leyton and Beck
Speaker 2: and the girls were there and the sidelines turning him on.
Speaker 2: I'm he didn't win. Oh, just to spoiler, he didn't win,
Speaker 2: but getting to the final is huge. Congrats to him
Speaker 2: and I am officially old.
Speaker 6: Has Lena Dunham won life? She was famesick according to
Speaker 6: the title of her memoir, But now the girl's creator
Speaker 6: has entered something of a golden age. And I got
Speaker 6: thinking about this because there was a tweet this weekend.
Speaker 6: It went out with a picture of Lena in this
Speaker 6: beautiful blue CARDI flashing the VF victory sign. And this
Speaker 6: was not Lena Dunnam's tweet. This was an observer's tweet,
Speaker 6: and the tweet read Adam Driver hasn't been seen in weeks,
Speaker 6: Jack Antonoff maybe getting divorced Jenny Connor in Witness Protection
Speaker 6: the headline at Taylor Swift's wedding.
Speaker 5: You know, you that bitch when you cause all this conversation.
Speaker 4: If that was about me, I'd have that framed in
Speaker 4: my bedroom.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's good, is it it?
Speaker 6: Let's unpack it, and then I want to figure out
Speaker 6: how she wanted life. So, first of all, Adam Driver
Speaker 6: hasn't been seen in weeks. I didn't know how true
Speaker 6: this was. But ever since Lena's memoir came out and
Speaker 6: mentioned that he threw a chair at the wall, that
Speaker 6: was kind of the big headline from the book, they
Speaker 6: had an argument he threw a chair at the wall
Speaker 6: during the filming of Girls. It's true that Driver's star
Speaker 6: has seemed a little bit dimmed since then. So he's
Speaker 6: only said, in response to the chair throwing anecdote that
Speaker 6: he's saving his side of the story for my book.
Speaker 5: I don't that's all he said.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 5: I think it was mostly a joke.
Speaker 6: But I did look up headlines about him in the
Speaker 6: past two weeks and there were two headlines. One he
Speaker 6: is selling his Brooklyn Heights home, which Lena mentions was
Speaker 6: opposite hers, so clearly he just wants to close the
Speaker 6: chapter on that part of his life. Two that he
Speaker 6: has an intense dinosaur movie coming to Prime Video. And
Speaker 6: you're an entertainment person. Have you heard anything of his
Speaker 6: intense dinosaur movie.
Speaker 3: I haven't, but I do know he was in an
Speaker 3: intense dinosaur movie a few years ago. I think it
Speaker 3: was called sixty three. He's very good in it. But
Speaker 3: there is a dinosaur movie coming out with Ann Hathway.
Speaker 3: Maybe he's in that one.
Speaker 6: I just think he's not quite where he used to be.
Speaker 6: That's what I'm taking. It's quite hard to.
Speaker 4: Act alongside dynasties.
Speaker 2: I just have to check that I've got this narrative straight.
Speaker 2: How much ex love interests are suffering indicates how well
Speaker 2: we're doing.
Speaker 1: So is that what you're trying to say?
Speaker 5: No, I think it's not that he's an ex love interest.
Speaker 6: It's that all the people that Lena maybe had beef
Speaker 6: with who she outlined the beef's in her book.
Speaker 5: However, subtly those people.
Speaker 6: Are now not doing as well because Lena kind of
Speaker 6: outlined her arguments with them in her book.
Speaker 3: I feel like, as a person who's had previous exes,
Speaker 3: if they had some sort of downfall, I obviously would
Speaker 3: in publicly be happy about it.
Speaker 4: But I will smile and I don't see. I don't
Speaker 4: think there's anything wrong with that.
Speaker 6: And to be clear, like Adam Driver is not her
Speaker 6: ex love interest in real life. He played her love
Speaker 6: interest on the show. It's sort of like if you
Speaker 6: have a colleague, an ex colleague you don't really like,
Speaker 6: who's now doing badly, you're sort of happier about.
Speaker 1: They nearly did, didn't they?
Speaker 2: In the book there was like one night when it
Speaker 2: was going to happen and went no.
Speaker 6: But the big piece of evidence here is around Jack Antonoff,
Speaker 6: because news broke in the last few days that he
Speaker 6: and wife Margaret Qually are in fact separated after three
Speaker 6: years of marriage. They got married in this big ceremony Tellers,
Speaker 6: which was there.
Speaker 5: It was a huge deal.
Speaker 6: Now Jack doesn't come off so well only in his book,
Speaker 6: and now he's getting divorced coincidence.
Speaker 3: Not a coincidence. I'm going to say.
Speaker 1: This is years ago. These guys broke up, like ten
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but an excellent.
Speaker 5: X X isn't X.
Speaker 6: And then there's the headline at Telisa's wedding, which is
Speaker 6: because Lena gave a speech at the wedding and this
Speaker 6: has been pretty well verified now where she said American football,
Speaker 6: which is what Travis Kelsey plays, is just straight guys
Speaker 6: re enacting gay porn. Apparently this drew both gasps and
Speaker 6: lasts from the audience. Taylor loved it. Lena seemed to
Speaker 6: reference it in a later Instagram saying she was available
Speaker 6: for other weddings and by mitzvahs. So we kind of
Speaker 6: can assume now that she did in fact say this.
Speaker 6: She's she's clearly loving life right now. Everything's going her way.
Speaker 6: And how do you think Lena came through the fame
Speaker 6: sick era and sort of just won everything.
Speaker 3: I really love how before Lena put out her memoir,
Speaker 3: she probably saw mel Robbins getting in a lot of
Speaker 3: traction for let them, and she was like.
Speaker 4: You know what, no, don't let them, never let them. Don't.
Speaker 3: And we're seeing what happens when you don't let them.
Speaker 3: And what I think happened with her fame Sick memoir,
Speaker 3: She've Come. She came across so likable because she reminded
Speaker 3: herself when she was writing this that she was so unlikable,
Speaker 3: and she doesn't shy away from that.
Speaker 4: We always talk.
Speaker 3: About the people she quote unquote burned in the memoir,
Speaker 3: but she also talked really honestly about herself as an
Speaker 3: unlikable person, and she talked about how she cheated, and
Speaker 3: she talked about how she didn't like people who didn't
Speaker 3: like her, and she talked about how she thought she
Speaker 3: was the best thing to give to art, and that
Speaker 3: is all very unlikable things to say when you're talking
Speaker 3: about yourself. And I think because she was so honest
Speaker 3: in that aspect, it did the opposite where she came
Speaker 3: across as someone who was just very honest and vulnerable,
Speaker 3: and we liked that about her.
Speaker 5: She is Anna bashadly herself.
Speaker 6: Think about the outfit she wore to Taylor's rehearsal dinner,
Speaker 6: because yes, she did get invited to the smaller event
Speaker 6: on Thursday night. It was a chartruse green satin skirt suit.
Speaker 6: I saw someone describe it as looking like the Grinch's publicist.
Speaker 5: But that was a.
Speaker 6: Compliment, like she looked amazing. She is just fully herself
Speaker 6: at this point.
Speaker 2: Its age, This is all it is like she Lena
Speaker 2: Dunham was so young when she became so successful, and
Speaker 2: the world was horrible to her. And I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know if we read the same book, but I
Speaker 2: didn't think that she burned Jack anton Off in that book.
Speaker 2: I thought she that was a very even description of
Speaker 2: a long relationship falling apart. But still I think what
Speaker 2: happened to her is the Internet and the world gave
Speaker 2: her an absolute hiding and.
Speaker 1: It was awful. And she describes that a lot in
Speaker 1: that book.
Speaker 2: And most tellingly, the whole book is dedicated to the
Speaker 2: people who did not make it through fame, everybody from
Speaker 2: Marilyn Monroe to Caroline Flack and lie and Payne and
Speaker 2: Amy Winehouse, and it's the book is a story about
Speaker 2: what happens when your life gets swallowed by this pursuit,
Speaker 2: by your ambition, and then how much the world hates
Speaker 2: ambitious women, which it generally does. And I think that
Speaker 2: where Lena is now is she went away right and
Speaker 2: this I'm not saying that's a good thing or a
Speaker 2: bad thing.
Speaker 1: But she did.
Speaker 6: This is how she got through fame. Yes, this is
Speaker 6: your outlining the strategy.
Speaker 2: She went away and she grew up and she did
Speaker 2: other work that wasn't all Lena focused. And I don't
Speaker 2: mean again, I'm not criticizing her like because she wreckees
Speaker 2: that for reasons that were entirely unfair. In my opinion,
Speaker 2: she had become the story and the problem and everybody's
Speaker 2: favorite whipping child in the sort of teens twenty teens.
Speaker 2: I think this is age. She has just turned forty.
Speaker 2: She has written an extraordinarily good book. If this book
Speaker 2: was just slandering people and dissing everybody and all that,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have been the hit that it has been.
Speaker 2: She executed the strategy of promoting the book brilliantly, and
Speaker 2: now she can kind of just she's it's also how
Speaker 2: you can be with fame and money when you don't
Speaker 2: need it anymore, Like you can hold it lightly when
Speaker 2: you're young and you're and you're hustling and you're trying
Speaker 2: to get to where you need to go, you have
Speaker 2: to hold it all so tightly. And I think now
Speaker 2: she's like, I don't need it. I've got nothing to prove.
Speaker 2: Everybody like Girls has had a whole revisionist history in
Speaker 2: terms of now it's in the cannon as being seen
Speaker 2: as a really important piece of art. You know, her
Speaker 2: story inter sex with so many really important cultural moments.
Speaker 1: I reckon now, she's kind of like me.
Speaker 6: I agree, but I'm fascinated with how she pulled it off, because,
Speaker 6: as you point out at the start of the book,
Speaker 6: she lists scores of people who couldn't come through fame
Speaker 6: and didn't emerge the other side actually thriving and healthy
Speaker 6: and happy. And it got me thinking about what fame
Speaker 6: does to you. And I happened to come across an
Speaker 6: interview that came out today. This is Mick Jagger being
Speaker 6: interviewed on the New York Times Interview podcast, and he
Speaker 6: said something specifically that I thought immediately of Lena, because
Speaker 6: it talks about the worst time in your life that
Speaker 6: you can become famous.
Speaker 8: I think you're psychologically your your actual state of mind
Speaker 8: is permanently damaged by this or affected or I mean,
Speaker 8: I think when you're in your late twenties and early
Speaker 8: thirties is a very tough time for people in this
Speaker 8: business because it's a big ego trip.
Speaker 6: Basically, what do you think about that idea that like,
Speaker 6: she became famous at an especially vulnerable time, the time
Speaker 6: of life when you're meant to be sort of coalescing
Speaker 6: around your sense of self and everyone's telling you how
Speaker 6: great you are because they're making so much money off you,
Speaker 6: and it really messes with your sense of self.
Speaker 5: And somehow she didn't let it do that.
Speaker 2: Well she did, and now she didn't, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. I think that the story here is she
Speaker 2: went through it. She would say, getting sober was a
Speaker 2: massive part of it for her, That's what she One
Speaker 2: of the things she says, retreating from the spotlight to
Speaker 2: go and live in London a huge part of it,
Speaker 2: making like, you know, disconnecting herself from In the book
Speaker 2: she talks about this, she was being pushed to but
Speaker 2: also she was feeding it too, like constant buying into
Speaker 2: the attention economy basically, and now she's come out of
Speaker 2: it the other side, able to harness the attention economy
Speaker 2: when she wants it.
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit wary of saying it's done.
Speaker 2: Like, you know, the world was particularly awful to women
Speaker 2: at that time, but it still is and I want
Speaker 2: and it particularly awful to women as they age. So
Speaker 2: I think that from here, you know, we're in a
Speaker 2: moment where people are recognizing that we had a really
Speaker 2: we have a really special genius in done them in
Speaker 2: lots of ways. It doesn't necessarily mean they're not going
Speaker 2: to turn on it next week.
Speaker 3: Also, I completely agree. I also feel like her memoir
Speaker 3: acts as like a security blanket for her, and like
Speaker 3: it shows that you have to give to get. I
Speaker 3: feel like if she didn't have the memoir come out,
Speaker 3: and if she wasn't back on social media posting and
Speaker 3: on sub stack posting, and then the news came out
Speaker 3: that she made that joker Taylor Swift's wedding after we
Speaker 3: haven't heard from her in so many years, it would
Speaker 3: have done the opposite of what it did.
Speaker 4: People would have.
Speaker 3: Been so mad, so angry at her, would have gone
Speaker 3: back through the archives and been like, this isn't the
Speaker 3: first time Lena Dunham stole the spotlight from someone. And
Speaker 3: I think it's because she gave so much of herself
Speaker 3: in that memoir to us kind of I'm now grabbing
Speaker 3: for like any little thing she will say outside of
Speaker 3: that because we are so again obsessed with her.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think we're obsessed with her because she
Speaker 6: has been radically honest with us and with herself. I
Speaker 6: think part of what Mick Jagger is getting out there
Speaker 6: when he says that fame can really damage you is
Speaker 6: that you end up. It seems to me observationally that
Speaker 6: a lot of famous people end up believing what all
Speaker 6: the sort of hangers on are telling them. But Lena
Speaker 6: had to sort of reject the obsequiousness and the flattery,
Speaker 6: put herself in rehab, go through a lot of medical issues,
Speaker 6: and realize that that was ultimately empty in a way
Speaker 6: that many other celebrities don't.
Speaker 2: I think that's absolutely true. I think the wisdom. I
Speaker 2: mean it sounds trite, but the book outlines all of
Speaker 2: the pain, literal pain she's been through living with really
Speaker 2: chronic illness for a long time. She must have a
Speaker 2: lot of perspective on what matters now.
Speaker 1: For those of us. And I am in this clad.
Speaker 2: I am in this group because I am obsessed with Antonoff,
Speaker 2: like his music, I mean not him personally, and so
Speaker 2: many people were really invested in that market Quali Jack
Speaker 2: Antonov relationship there are so many famous songs about it.
Speaker 2: And anyway, if you're obsessed with that, we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about it on Scoreless Gossip tomorrow for subscribers with me.
Speaker 6: And look, dare I say it? I've got a couple
Speaker 6: more Tailor stift wedding updates. I got to mention the
Speaker 6: ladies please please. First of all, we still haven't seen
Speaker 6: the dress, and I don't understand why is there a
Speaker 6: strategy here and what is going on?
Speaker 3: I am so like over Look, I have a confession
Speaker 3: to our manager. I removed myself from the Taylor swift
Speaker 3: By channel because I'm just off it.
Speaker 4: I'm off it. I want to talk about something else.
Speaker 4: I'm done.
Speaker 3: What I am interested in is how every update we
Speaker 3: get about the Taylor wedding is from the Kelsey Brothers
Speaker 3: official Instagram page. And I want to know if there's
Speaker 3: a war between the Kelsey Others marketing team and the
Speaker 3: Tailor Nation marketing team. Try to be giving them everything
Speaker 3: and Tailor Nation.
Speaker 4: Hasn't posted anything about the wedding.
Speaker 2: I've been trying to find you a credible theory, Amelia.
Speaker 2: Do you want to hear the closest I've got? Tell
Speaker 2: me when they got engaged. There were thirteen days between
Speaker 2: the proposal and the post about the proposal. Thirteen is
Speaker 2: a big number for Taylor. Yeah, for reasons that I
Speaker 2: don't know. I think we're on day ten.
Speaker 4: It's a birthday date, and.
Speaker 1: So were I think we're on day ten if my
Speaker 1: maths is correct.
Speaker 5: Not favorite tifused, yea, they.
Speaker 4: Do, and so it mate.
Speaker 2: She may we didn't know we were waiting for the
Speaker 2: engagement pictures though, did we write? So that was but
Speaker 2: it was thirteen days, so that's like almost two weeks
Speaker 2: to kind of let everything, get the pictures back from.
Speaker 1: The photographer, Yeah, go through them.
Speaker 4: Let her.
Speaker 2: She was seen at a wedding of one of Travis's
Speaker 2: former teammates on the weekend. Maybe she wanted to make
Speaker 2: sure they got their moment.
Speaker 6: Maybe Jayla was just photo bombing all of the nice
Speaker 6: shuts of the dress.
Speaker 1: It's true photo shopping her out.
Speaker 4: You know who's not considered.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're probably getting picture approval from all
Speaker 1: the famous people.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's why I couldn't go. But they're
Speaker 3: not thinking about their boomer auntie who just wants to
Speaker 3: post a Facebook album. And I think when it comes
Speaker 3: to weddings. We really need to consider that group of people.
Speaker 6: Okay, here's the second update. Melissa Ganna Lee wrote in
Speaker 6: the Huffington Post this weekend about the fact that her
Speaker 6: husband deleted their invitation to tail.
Speaker 1: Us this wedding dory.
Speaker 5: Amelia T screamed when I read.
Speaker 9: So.
Speaker 6: Melissa's husband's name is Garrett. He's a well known music producer.
Speaker 6: Melissa just scrolling through Instagram photos of the wedding as
Speaker 6: it's happening, you know, just like sitting on the couch,
Speaker 6: and she says something to her husband about the wedding.
Speaker 5: And then he.
Speaker 6: Says, Oh, I got a text, but I thought it
Speaker 6: was spam.
Speaker 5: Oh no, what I asked, in total disbelief.
Speaker 6: Yeah, remember I told you I got a text from
Speaker 6: her manager, but I didn't respond to it. It didn't
Speaker 6: sound like him. And then Melissa's screams it was probably
Speaker 6: an assistant. Oh, Garrett said, seemingly apologetic. Now, because Melissa
Speaker 6: is a psychotherapist, she did not murder her husband. Instead,
Speaker 6: she took some deep breaths and left the room to
Speaker 6: work through her anger. But what would you have done
Speaker 6: in this situation?
Speaker 3: This story makes a great case on why you should
Speaker 3: never marry a.
Speaker 4: Man because I know every woman.
Speaker 3: I know every woman in a long term relationship has
Speaker 3: some version of this story. What makes it worse, and
Speaker 3: Melissa writes this in the post, is that not only
Speaker 3: did they just like did he like not reply to
Speaker 3: the message, but he completely deleted it, so they didn't
Speaker 3: even RSVP No, they didn't even get a no from that.
Speaker 2: That I would be garrett. I would be Garrett. I
Speaker 2: delete nearly every message in my inbox. If I don't
Speaker 2: know the number, I'm not responding, I would believe it
Speaker 2: was spam.
Speaker 1: Everything is spam.
Speaker 6: If you got a text and it was like, Hi,
Speaker 6: I'm Bad Bunny's manager. I heard you're a fan. He
Speaker 6: wants to invite you on his yacht next month.
Speaker 5: Would you really delete it?
Speaker 1: Or would you not?
Speaker 5: Maybe ask a follow up question, the only bad Bunny?
Speaker 9: Would you? This is a.
Speaker 3: Lie because you gave all your details away to Harry Styles.
Speaker 4: That is so message right I did?
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, you're fair fair, No, she's this is outrage.
Speaker 1: I would be calling Madison's as she was. She was
Speaker 1: scrolling looking at the picture, calling Madison Square gun.
Speaker 5: Stop the wedding.
Speaker 1: Oh I forgot the other theory a Melia that I
Speaker 1: got for you again.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 2: Mia has said that there's no way that Vogue is
Speaker 2: on the inside of the wedding pictures, but Vogue seemed
Speaker 2: to be suggesting that they are. That They've got lots
Speaker 2: of insider pictures of Taylor's dress and Taylor's fittings, and
Speaker 2: they have said to us per the New York Times,
Speaker 2: that they will be releasing them, but they can't until Taylor.
Speaker 5: Releases Oh so she did.
Speaker 2: Release interesting and then the behind the scenes designer pictures
Speaker 2: will come through.
Speaker 1: Vogue is the theory.
Speaker 3: After the break the new group activity that only requires
Speaker 3: you to do one simple thing. So there's a new
Speaker 3: type of social club on the block and young people
Speaker 3: are eagerly waiting to sign up to it. You only
Speaker 3: have to do one thing, and that is absolutely nothing.
Speaker 3: That is your one thing you have to do. So
Speaker 3: it started in New York where a reiki practitioner named
Speaker 3: Malia Simone started a group called Club Rest Stop, where
Speaker 3: for about two hours on a weekend, a group of
Speaker 3: people gather in a park. They do some listening to soundbarts,
Speaker 3: they do some deep breathing, and the one rule is
Speaker 3: is that you have to lie down and close your eyes.
Speaker 2: This is the best bit of yoga, right, You know
Speaker 2: when you go to a yoga class and everyone just
Speaker 2: likes the last five minutes, yeah, ash ashtanga, ashtanga, sevassina vasa,
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm really sorry all the yogi's Anyway,
Speaker 2: whenever you go to a yoga class and it's time
Speaker 2: for that part and you see the people, like some
Speaker 2: people start to pack up and leave.
Speaker 3: Like that's the best part of yoga. You get to
Speaker 3: lie down that bit. I once caught myself snort.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: And sometimes they come and give you a little blanky sometimes.
Speaker 1: Anyway, we digress.
Speaker 3: So we're getting these social groups now, and they mainly
Speaker 3: do this on weekends. But it's like two hours of
Speaker 3: your time. You go to a park and you're meant
Speaker 3: to lie down and do nothing, and it's for people
Speaker 3: who want to retire from hustle culture.
Speaker 6: I'm glad they mainly do it on weekends because I
Speaker 6: feel like most people would have a tough time selling
Speaker 6: it to their Monday to Friday job boss that they.
Speaker 5: Need to go and lie in the park for two hours.
Speaker 1: I've got to leave early. I've got my lie down class.
Speaker 3: Well, I've actually been practicing a version of this, because
Speaker 3: Malia says that she knows it's a big commitment. But
Speaker 3: if you are in, if you're going to the and
Speaker 3: you have a lot of meetings and things to do,
Speaker 3: just take five minutes before that meeting to just do
Speaker 3: absolutely nothing. So literally just sit there and do nothing.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if you guys notice, but I
Speaker 3: do do this before my record. I go to I
Speaker 3: go into the kitchen and I look out the window
Speaker 3: for like three minutes.
Speaker 5: Is that so you think that sort of clears your head.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: I think what it does is that it makes me
Speaker 3: interested in other things other than myself.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 2: I hate to bring this up because we have already
Speaker 2: had one mention of this man today, mister Bunny Bad Bunny.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: Yes, but famously, on this world tour that is ongoing,
Speaker 2: the first thing he does on the whole show, which
Speaker 2: is like a three hour extravaganza blah, he shoots up
Speaker 2: and he just stands there. He stands there and he
Speaker 2: doesn't move, and he doesn't talk, and he doesn't do
Speaker 2: anything for like a full i'd say two minutes.
Speaker 5: Does it make people uncomfortable?
Speaker 2: Yes, but he does it. And I've heard lots of
Speaker 2: people say it's he's centering himself. He's like taking it
Speaker 2: all in, But it actually feels a bit weird. And
Speaker 2: now I know that, mister bunny in an arena is
Speaker 2: just you staring out of the window before a record.
Speaker 1: On a Monday morning. Yes, so I should want to.
Speaker 3: Go up to you and go like this, I should
Speaker 3: do it. I should do what he does, and do
Speaker 3: it on company time and the next time we're recording,
Speaker 3: I was paying for those exactly, and you go, hey, everyone,
Speaker 3: welcome to out loud.
Speaker 4: I'm just going to see here two minutes.
Speaker 6: I feel like what all of these sort of habits
Speaker 6: are circling around is this concept of cognitive endurance. I
Speaker 6: read an article about this in the Nine newspapers this
Speaker 6: weekend which says, basically, cognitive endurance means how many seconds
Speaker 6: you can be looking into space without looking at your phone.
Speaker 6: That's basically the definition of cognitive endurance. And Priya Parker,
Speaker 6: who's the author of a book called the Art of Gathering,
Speaker 6: who you may have heard some interviews with. She's all
Speaker 6: about like how to more intentionally get together with other people.
Speaker 6: She kicked this off because about a decade ago, she
Speaker 6: had this club in New York.
Speaker 5: I had friends involved with it.
Speaker 6: And she'd say, you've got to leave your phone at home,
Speaker 6: and we're going to get on the subway and go
Speaker 6: to a random New York neighborhood and wander around that
Speaker 6: neighborhood for twelve hours before going home, no phone, no prep.
Speaker 6: The idea was just you're going to randomly explore the neighborhood.
Speaker 4: But what do you do on the subway?
Speaker 6: The subway just takes you to a random neighborhood that
Speaker 6: you then explore.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not on the phone on the subway because
Speaker 4: you left your friend.
Speaker 5: Oh, I guess that's interesting. You left your phone at home.
Speaker 6: But the idea is, like ten years ago, cognitive endurance
Speaker 6: was going somewhere for twelve hours without your phone.
Speaker 5: I don't think you could do that today.
Speaker 6: Like this, it's interesting that this group that you're talking
Speaker 6: about is now.
Speaker 5: Two hours because basically, our.
Speaker 6: Attention has gotten so shot that even two hours of
Speaker 6: not looking at our phone feels immense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 4: What a Taylorswift post her wedding dress in those two hours?
Speaker 6: True?
Speaker 2: I am this is really interesting because I think the
Speaker 2: one of the things that everybody's grappling with that we
Speaker 2: know that even though we might do a lot of
Speaker 2: downtime with our phones, like our screen times tell us
Speaker 2: that we spend anywhere between four to eight to twenty
Speaker 2: three hours ago looking at our phones and bedrodding is
Speaker 2: the whole thing and all that. It's like very much,
Speaker 2: there's like a laziness associated with phone scrolling that we
Speaker 2: all know about recognizing ourselves and can point to it
Speaker 2: is not rest.
Speaker 1: It is not rest.
Speaker 2: It is not recharged like that that time is not
Speaker 2: And I was at a book event last week. This
Speaker 2: amazing radical Amantha Imba, who I've interviewed a few times
Speaker 2: on various mom and Mere podcasts, has a book called
Speaker 2: The Energy Game, and it's about burnout. Essentially, it's about
Speaker 2: how to avoid burnout and why burnout is at an
Speaker 2: all time high and all those things. And she makes
Speaker 2: the point that there are these different kinds of energy
Speaker 2: banks that we all have, and our phone SAPs all
Speaker 2: of them in different ways. So it SAPs our social
Speaker 2: energy because often we'll be interacting in group chats and
Speaker 2: messaging or whatever and feeling like we're socializing and thinking
Speaker 2: of what to say and worrying about whether someone didn't
Speaker 2: get back to us, wonder at whether 'ing, you know,
Speaker 2: worrying about whether it's our ten to respond physical energy,
Speaker 2: I guess is an argument, not really except for the
Speaker 2: fact that we all know this, and the technic and
Speaker 2: the shoulders that I really get, and our emotional energy
Speaker 2: in that we all know, we're all familiar with how
Speaker 2: the doom scroll of like every awful thing in the world,
Speaker 2: poppy dog, every awful thing in the world, hot ran gardening.
Speaker 2: You know that it's it's an emotional role, rage bait,
Speaker 2: you know, tear bait, all that kind of stuff, and
Speaker 2: that it's sapping all our energy banks without us even
Speaker 2: doing anything. So it makes total sense that we detoxing
Speaker 2: from it, and we all know this, but it's just
Speaker 2: getting harder and harder to do it, and so making
Speaker 2: a social gathering that centers around it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the gym buddy, Yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 2: walk buddy who makes you do it right?
Speaker 6: And don't you think that like in twenty twenty six,
Speaker 6: asking twelve hours without your phone people, I just think
Speaker 6: literally wouldn't say yes anymore. They would just think that
Speaker 6: they'd come up with a list of reasons why that's
Speaker 6: literally impossible.
Speaker 1: We'd say, We'd say we wouldn't feel safe.
Speaker 2: We'd say we're worried about I don't know, our kids,
Speaker 2: our friends, our partners who can't get in touch with us. Yeah,
Speaker 2: all of these things that now are so deeply ingrained
Speaker 2: in the fabric of our lives, but only a few
Speaker 2: years ago was not Yeah.
Speaker 3: But I also feel like sometimes scrolling on my phone
Speaker 3: on TikTok is like my version of rest, and even
Speaker 3: though my brain is going like, that's where I feel RESTful.
Speaker 3: And it's so funny that to avoid the brain rot
Speaker 3: from scrolling, like I've been told that I need to
Speaker 3: actually rest, would stay on my phone and stare at
Speaker 3: a wall. But then ten years ago, when we didn't
Speaker 3: have smartphones, doing that was seen as like something so
Speaker 3: lazy and not productive. So it feels like there's always
Speaker 3: something new to complain about and to tell people.
Speaker 4: That you're just being lazy.
Speaker 2: I think scrolling your tiktoks as a treat is rest,
Speaker 2: but doing it in every available moment that you're not
Speaker 2: looking at something else is draining.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean, so like, if.
Speaker 2: You go, I've got to do this and this today,
Speaker 2: and then I've got I get twenty minutes to just
Speaker 2: scroll my handsome men. Gardening is like a little treat, right,
Speaker 2: But the fact that so much of our day is
Speaker 2: constantly plugging that in is part of what's making us exalt.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So if I don't want to join the two hours
Speaker 6: in the park group, which I don't, I can think
Speaker 6: of many excuses as to why I don't want to
Speaker 6: do that. Did you come away from talking to the
Speaker 6: author of the Energy Game with a sense of how
Speaker 6: we can be protecting ourselves a bit more?
Speaker 2: Well, she's got all these theories about how you've got
Speaker 2: to protect your energy, but you can protect your energy,
Speaker 2: you can boost your energy. And obviously rest is important,
Speaker 2: but rest means different things to different people.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The most important thing that I took away from that,
Speaker 2: and I think we've talked about this before, is that
Speaker 2: we all compare ourselves to each other. Of course we do, right,
Speaker 2: and that includes in terms of resting. Is that somebody's
Speaker 2: rest might literally be lying on the couchy in ther book,
Speaker 2: but other people might find that almost impossible to do.
Speaker 3: I know you and mea previously have talked about the
Speaker 3: seven types of rest, yes for different people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I discovered that my active I think my
Speaker 2: gardening is active rest.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, So I find it RESTful and I find it
Speaker 2: energizing in a way that no, I don't. I very
Speaker 2: rarely give myself permission to lie still. And I think
Speaker 2: that's probably like fifteen years of parenting plus work. Is
Speaker 2: that there's always something to do, right, There's always something,
Speaker 2: some load of washing, some meal, something some lura to do.
Speaker 2: So lying down feels I need to work on that,
Speaker 2: but it feels forbidden.
Speaker 1: Whereas do you.
Speaker 4: Think that's a generational thing as well?
Speaker 1: Well maybe, but.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it kind of creeps up
Speaker 2: on you. And then whereas I think active rest is
Speaker 2: you can kind of tell your self that you're still
Speaker 2: doing something, but you're resting.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's not healthy. There's nothing I'd love more
Speaker 2: than to land the couch and me to walk. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but men don't seem to have a problem. No, men
Speaker 2: love resting famously. I think I could join this social club.
Speaker 2: I think I'd be really good at it. It plays
Speaker 2: to my strength.
Speaker 3: You've got an analog bag. I've got an analog bag.
Speaker 3: I think I could join rest club, but like two
Speaker 3: to three times a day?
Speaker 1: Could you do it?
Speaker 4: Amelia?
Speaker 6: Absolutely not. It makes me auntsy thinking about it. Remember
Speaker 6: when we had our tel Stra outage last week? Yeah,
Speaker 6: I had to stare out the window on the bus.
Speaker 6: I think that's the most I've concentrated in a long time, honestly,
Speaker 6: Like that bus ride and now what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1: I was like, what twenty minutes?
Speaker 6: Yeah, Taylor Swift is asking us to practice cognitive endurance
Speaker 6: around her wedding. She's saying, so, guys, not everything happens
Speaker 6: immediately in life. Sometimes you've got to wait for nice things.
Speaker 6: She's really just asking us to practice.
Speaker 1: She really is.
Speaker 2: She's making us better people, Amelia. After the Break the
Speaker 2: Doves one. If you don't know what I'm talking about,
Speaker 2: you haven't been listening to our incessant updates about what's
Speaker 2: going on with Prince Harry in London. You'll be happy
Speaker 2: to hear that that trip is over. So this might
Speaker 2: be the last time.
Speaker 1: We're talking about it for a while.
Speaker 2: But also, lots of stuff happened screw Taylor's wedding friends,
Speaker 2: the photo that I really want is the one of
Speaker 2: the King with Harry and Meg's and the children at
Speaker 2: High Grove that got taken on Friday. God I help,
Speaker 2: We'll get to see that picture one day. We know
Speaker 2: that it exists, right this, we know for sure. We've
Speaker 2: been going on about it for weeks that Prince Harry
Speaker 2: was going to London, He's going to Britain to do
Speaker 2: some events around the Invictors Games, which is in Birmingham
Speaker 2: this time next year, and that Meghan and the kids
Speaker 2: were meant to go, and would they wouldn't they meet
Speaker 2: the King?
Speaker 1: Would they?
Speaker 2: Wouldn't they stay at Buckingham Palace and all that, and
Speaker 2: so on and so forth. Leaks and official statements at
Speaker 2: various times said yes they're coming, No they're not. Yes,
Speaker 2: Meg's will be doing some public events with him, No
Speaker 2: they won't. We talked about this a lot last week.
Speaker 2: The Hawks were the people who were like, absolutely not.
Speaker 2: William was the leader of the Hawks, saying, Dad, if
Speaker 2: you meet that annoying little brother of mine, I'm going.
Speaker 1: To be so mad.
Speaker 3: You're not invited to my birthday exactly, You're not invited
Speaker 3: to the kid's birthdays anyway.
Speaker 5: I have a polo tournament to go to dad. That's
Speaker 5: actually true, he did so.
Speaker 2: William was leading the Hawks in No apparently Charles and
Speaker 2: people in the Charles camp were the Doves, saying like
Speaker 2: he is my son and I want to see him.
Speaker 2: And lots of royal commentators have been very overly invested
Speaker 2: in this, possibly including myself. Anyway, it did happen on Friday.
Speaker 5: Do you identify as one hawk or dove?
Speaker 1: Definitely your dove.
Speaker 2: I want this family to heal, That's what I want.
Speaker 2: I understand why they won't, and also I want them
Speaker 2: to basically step down and turn.
Speaker 1: I bring him to a republic, but that's not going
Speaker 1: to happen. But I understand it.
Speaker 5: Kind of a dove hawk clime.
Speaker 2: I understand why William and Kate do not trust Harry.
Speaker 2: I very much understand it. But life is short, your
Speaker 2: dad's getting old, and those poor little Californian kids need
Speaker 2: to come and understand some things about England. Anyway, Friday afternoon,
Speaker 2: Charles and Queen Camilla hosted Harry and Meghan and the
Speaker 2: kids who are seven and five actching a limit at
Speaker 2: High Grove House.
Speaker 6: You kind of glossed over a huge fact there Queen Camilla,
Speaker 6: the same Queen Camilla that Harry has maligned repeatedly.
Speaker 2: Harry has slagged Camilla quite a lot in his book.
Speaker 2: He made it sound like she threw him under the
Speaker 2: bus with some leaking to the press when she was
Speaker 2: trying to get some preferential treatment. But then, to be honest,
Speaker 2: he threw everyone under the bus in that book, including
Speaker 2: his dad. His dad doesn't come out of it well.
Speaker 2: So I think this says a lot about Charles that
Speaker 2: he did this. No images are expected, so it wasn't
Speaker 2: in London. It was at Charles's favorite, beloved High gro
Speaker 2: Of House, and it was quite the cloak and dagger
Speaker 2: operation because as Tom Sykes, who is an obsessed who
Speaker 2: is the Royalist, and is an obsessive hawk to the
Speaker 2: point that I think he needs to check himself into
Speaker 2: some kind of beak beak rescue plate.
Speaker 3: When I talk about this story to my friends at drinks,
Speaker 3: can I just confirm the pronunciation Gloucestershire, Gloucester, Gloucestershire, You guys, Gloucestershire,
Speaker 3: Gloucestershire just kind of trails off at Gloucestershire.
Speaker 2: He writes that he was following Harry at the NEC
Speaker 2: in Birmingham on Friday, and that two things struck him.
Speaker 2: He said, first that Harry was very happy and considering
Speaker 2: the week he'd had, which we're going to get to
Speaker 2: in a minute, that seemed weird.
Speaker 3: Harry looked like shockingly happy, very gleamy and very good looking.
Speaker 2: And the second, Sykes writes that about midday the place
Speaker 2: started emptying. All the photographers mysteriously disappeared and everyone was like, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe they've gone to the Polo to see William and
Speaker 2: Catherine canoodling, which they did. They did some canoodling friends
Speaker 2: is the.
Speaker 4: I do know a.
Speaker 3: So Prince William said, I'll show you a happy marriage.
Speaker 5: Did that.
Speaker 2: But also they were going to High Grove and High
Speaker 2: Grove had a great smoke screen going on because they
Speaker 2: were hosting a party for Chanel on that day, because
Speaker 2: it's very fancy there, and Chanell had rented the estate
Speaker 2: for an event that was running from eleven to three,
Speaker 2: and so all the traffic going in and out everyone
Speaker 2: thought it was just that, but really one of those
Speaker 2: cars had Megs and the kids and they were.
Speaker 1: Smuggling them in.
Speaker 3: I need like a Crown spinoff episode of just Harrie's
Speaker 3: five days five tumultuous days, and they were tumultuous because
Speaker 3: this happened.
Speaker 2: So they got their meeting, and there will be no
Speaker 2: photos released unfortunately, unless, of course, Harry proves that he
Speaker 2: really is the scumbag that William thinks he is and
Speaker 2: just releases them in his Christmas card.
Speaker 1: He could he could do that, but apparently.
Speaker 2: The Sunday Times said that Charles is like blood is blood,
Speaker 2: and I know that there's all this dr and I
Speaker 2: know that we can't trust Harry not to leak to
Speaker 2: the press, but he's my son, and I'm not having
Speaker 2: this hashtag no content, no contact business going on in
Speaker 2: my family.
Speaker 1: Do we sympathize?
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I wonder how he sold it to Camilla, because Charles
Speaker 6: might say blood is blood, but Camilla is not blood,
Speaker 6: and he's said horrible things about her, and I just
Speaker 6: wonder how Charles.
Speaker 5: Sold it to her.
Speaker 6: I think maybe he said, look, you can have one
Speaker 6: of the Chanel gift bags from the event one side
Speaker 6: for you.
Speaker 3: So Charles wouldn't want this photo to be I think
Speaker 3: a photo is a whole other level, right, Like knowing
Speaker 3: that the meeting happened is one thing, but like a
Speaker 3: happy photo of them all.
Speaker 5: Is very Harry and Meggs would want the photo.
Speaker 1: I think that Harry Meggs would want it out for sure.
Speaker 4: But you can't have it two ways.
Speaker 3: You can't like yell at the Kardashians for posting your
Speaker 3: photo and then yell at your dad for not doing so.
Speaker 2: Harry has been doing that kind of thing anyway. I
Speaker 2: just have to tell you this story quickly because it
Speaker 2: actually also taps into our fame conversation before. So before
Speaker 2: the happy meeting, Harry had a bad week. I think
Speaker 2: we talked about it on the show, how he lost
Speaker 2: this big case that he's been prostituting about on the show.
Speaker 5: I don't think we talked about it on the.
Speaker 2: Show a few times against the Daily Mail, right yeap.
Speaker 2: And basically one of his defenses in that court case
Speaker 2: that had been going on and on is that the
Speaker 2: leaked details that the male had about things that Harry
Speaker 2: was doing this is quite a long time ago, could
Speaker 2: only have come through illegal means like phone tapping, because
Speaker 2: his social circle was tight lipped, sealed shut and impenetrable,
Speaker 2: safe of informat.
Speaker 6: My favorite bit from the court case, I know we
Speaker 6: won't go into it, but he apparently when he was
Speaker 6: on the stand, he spat into the microphone. I've never
Speaker 6: been to a carnival, because apparently the male reported he
Speaker 6: went to a carnival. And then unfortunately the barrister for
Speaker 6: the male stood up and quoted from Spare a time
Speaker 6: that Harry had been.
Speaker 8: Memoirs.
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, so he loses this case, and
Speaker 2: we did talk about there were some serious repercussions to that,
Speaker 2: but it also meant that everyone who was involved in
Speaker 2: that case could suddenly start talking, and one of them
Speaker 2: is Charlotte Griffiths. I'm going to play you a little
Speaker 2: bit of Charlotte Griffiths, who must have written this big
Speaker 2: expose that she wanted to publish like months ago and
Speaker 2: just waiting for the verdict to come in. This is
Speaker 2: her talking about what she was about to tell us
Speaker 2: all about Harry's not so leaky social circle.
Speaker 9: I'm Charlotte Griffiths, and I'm the person who received those
Speaker 9: embarrassing Facebook messages from Prince Harry which I exchanged very
Speaker 9: many years ago in twenty eleven. I'm about the same
Speaker 9: age as Prince Harry. I was in his wider social
Speaker 9: circle for a time. I've been spending time in Eitha
Speaker 9: with a few of his mates and you know, we
Speaker 9: formed a friendship, and on the way home from this weekend,
Speaker 9: he sent me a Facebook message introducing himself and I'd
Speaker 9: pretty much forgotten all about them, but they came to
Speaker 9: light in the Prince Harry and Daily Mail trial.
Speaker 6: The person who chose the music for that deserves an oscar.
Speaker 6: It was a mix between chilling true crime.
Speaker 4: I was like and then as like perfection.
Speaker 5: That's that's the exact right.
Speaker 1: It's so good.
Speaker 2: The messages that she's talking about kind of embarrassing for Harry.
Speaker 2: They say things like I miss our movie, snuggles and
Speaker 2: just throws away pull night drinking before he was going
Speaker 2: to various royal events and basically just being.
Speaker 5: Not hung over. It the trooping of.
Speaker 3: Exactly much do you know. Megan's like, God, damn, I know,
Speaker 3: so embarrassing.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing is that she also goes on
Speaker 2: saying that video that if he'd googled her she was
Speaker 2: working for The Mail, then she was a reporter and
Speaker 2: she wasn't. She wasn't reporting necessarily on Harry. But if
Speaker 2: he was so paranoid about his social circle. You'd think
Speaker 2: he might have googled her before anything else. This is
Speaker 2: a really good story, this little bit. Then I promise
Speaker 2: we shall move on. According to the table plan, on
Speaker 2: the night that Charlotte.
Speaker 6: Meets the Prince, this is at the hunting week. This
Speaker 6: is at the hunting week. If you met me, what
Speaker 6: is a hunting weekend?
Speaker 2: This is the way that posh people, really posh people
Speaker 2: in Britain and invite each other to their country houses
Speaker 2: for hunting shooting. According to the table planned, Charlotte writes,
Speaker 2: the Prince and I were to sit next to each
Speaker 2: other at dinner, and because Harry was doubtless wary about
Speaker 2: being introduced to an H and M clad stranger, said
Speaker 2: she was wearing a dress from H and M. He
Speaker 2: decided to kick start our relationship by subjecting me to
Speaker 2: a little test. From his pocket, he removed a small
Speaker 2: white pill. He held it up to my face, popped
Speaker 2: it onto my tongue, and said, with a smile, now
Speaker 2: I know I can trust you. So began a short
Speaker 2: and utterly surreal friendship with the abuliantly young man who
Speaker 2: was third in line to the throne. She says, take
Speaker 2: the white pill was a loyalty test. It was almost
Speaker 2: certainly paracetamol, she says, not wanting to get sued again
Speaker 2: rather than something more sinister. But I couldn't be entirely sure.
Speaker 6: First question, and when you go away with your young
Speaker 6: people friends for the weekend, do you always have a
Speaker 6: seating plan for dinner on Friday night or only sometimes?
Speaker 3: Well, if I was to invite a print, have a
Speaker 3: seating plan and he'd always be seated near me, So
Speaker 3: I think that was just really smart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a seating plan.
Speaker 2: Charlotte's sitting there, She says that the first thing he
Speaker 2: does is this, and it's his trust test.
Speaker 5: And how bad is this?
Speaker 6: Because I saw some remarks online that were like this
Speaker 6: is really bad because she didn't give consent, and like
Speaker 6: it could have been anything like how serious?
Speaker 1: She says.
Speaker 2: She says in this story, And again I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that everything that Charlotte Griffith says is verbatim, but Harry's
Speaker 2: always kind of denied and dismissed Charlotte's claims, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure this one too. But the messages were deemed real
Speaker 2: in the court, and they did find against Harry that
Speaker 2: did show that his social circle was leaky and that he.
Speaker 5: Was and she left him on red ultimate, yes.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that she he was sort of reckless in
Speaker 2: his messaging. But she says in this that she spat
Speaker 2: it out into a hanky, because that's what you would
Speaker 2: say if somebody, if you were reporting this story, like
Speaker 2: nearly twenty years later, when you are a mother of
Speaker 2: three and you know all of those I definitely.
Speaker 1: Did not Inhale.
Speaker 2: I did not take that bill. But it's an interesting
Speaker 2: idea of a trust test. We were talking before about
Speaker 2: fame and how much it messes with you. There is nothing.
Speaker 2: There's a level of fame obviously that the royals have,
Speaker 2: particularly in Britain and in those kind of social circles,
Speaker 2: the kind where they're inviting each other to their country houses.
Speaker 1: They that's why they.
Speaker 2: All hang around with other aristocrats and posh people, right,
Speaker 2: is they don't want things to leak out. So the
Speaker 2: idea of a trust test is kind of interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's different ways to go about it, though.
Speaker 1: What would you do pills to people?
Speaker 2: You could just tell them fake things and see what
Speaker 2: leaked out, like the famous Wagatha Christie case that happened
Speaker 2: in Britain.
Speaker 1: When that's a former football.
Speaker 3: Great because I'm so good at lying, so I could
Speaker 3: just tell a bunch of actually, then I would forget
Speaker 3: what lie I told to which person she wouldn't know.
Speaker 3: You'll have to just have to do the watermark route
Speaker 3: that Taylor Swift did on all their wedding invitations.
Speaker 2: She does boast about how tightly lipped her friend circles Holly.
Speaker 6: Do you think this is really bad for Harry, the
Speaker 6: fact that this story has come out?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I think that in Britain, so Charlotte Griffith said that
Speaker 2: one of the things she was really worried about, and
Speaker 2: obviously her story goes on about a lot of other stuff.
Speaker 2: She said she was really worried about the backlash she'd get,
Speaker 2: but that actually most of the commentary has been very supportive.
Speaker 2: I think that fortunately or unfortunately for Harry, the public
Speaker 2: will goodwill for him in the UK is relatively low.
Speaker 2: But I think that what has saved his terrible week,
Speaker 2: because he had this week of terrible press, the finding
Speaker 2: against him, people coming out with stories.
Speaker 1: Like this, all of that was Charles meeting him.
Speaker 2: I think that then it meant that he could He's
Speaker 2: done his last public engagement. Now he went and did
Speaker 2: goat yogurt with which sounds ridiculous, but it was with
Speaker 2: the children from bereaved military families, which is a great
Speaker 2: thing for a royal to be doing, particularly one who
Speaker 2: runs Invictis game.
Speaker 6: He said to a kid there that they make a
Speaker 6: lemon drizzle cake every year on Diana's birthday.
Speaker 4: Ah.
Speaker 2: So I think that I think that it is probably
Speaker 2: right that the Hawks were all worried that the King,
Speaker 2: meaning Harry, kind of gave Harry a bit more of
Speaker 2: a free pass, and they would all like him to disappear,
Speaker 2: and I think it probably does.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 2: I think this stuff is embarrassing, but it is also
Speaker 2: a long time ago. And he writes in Spare a
Speaker 2: lot about how he was lost before he met Megs,
Speaker 2: doesn't he He writes that he was smoking too much dope
Speaker 2: and drinking a lot and wandering around in the world aimlessly,
Speaker 2: and then he met Meghan.
Speaker 6: I just hope Camilla got a Schnelle hand creamer out
Speaker 6: of the whole thing.
Speaker 2: I really want him to release this picture at the
Speaker 2: same time that Taylor releases the wedding dress.
Speaker 1: What a week it'll be Christmas.
Speaker 2: We were about to sign off, except that literally, while
Speaker 2: we've been recording this show, the beautiful Claire Stevens, who
Speaker 2: we told you at the top of the show, has
Speaker 2: given birth to a baby who isn't called Brent, it's
Speaker 2: called Darcy.
Speaker 1: Has sent us a voice Mariage.
Speaker 7: Hi, out louder, is Claire here. You've probably all forgotten
Speaker 7: about me by now. I was hosting out Loud till
Speaker 7: just over a week ago.
Speaker 4: But there's so much that has happened since then.
Speaker 7: There's been a wedding of some description. I'm not sure
Speaker 7: they've talked about it much on the show, but I
Speaker 7: know that that's kind of been distracting people. But I
Speaker 7: just thought, in case anybody was interested, I did have
Speaker 7: a little man Darcy. On Friday afternoon. I was watching
Speaker 7: Love Island and then I paused Love Island and quickly.
Speaker 4: Had a baby.
Speaker 7: And then I got Macs and it was lovely.
Speaker 1: Then I got back to Love Island.
Speaker 7: But I just wanted to say a huge thank you
Speaker 7: to all the out louders who were so supportive during
Speaker 7: pregnancy and so lovely.
Speaker 1: And I've also.
Speaker 7: Read the story of my previous birth and how it
Speaker 7: was a little bit traumatic and kind of checked in
Speaker 7: before I gave birth for a second time. I just
Speaker 7: think it's the most incredible community of women, and I
Speaker 7: feel very, very lucky to have been in your ears
Speaker 7: for the last few months.
Speaker 4: Darcy's really freaking cute.
Speaker 7: I have to say, like I'm actually not biased, like
Speaker 7: he's actually perfect, which I said. I did say to
Speaker 7: my husband. I said, it's a shame that we're not
Speaker 7: a trad wife family having fifteen children, because our children
Speaker 7: are pretty cute. Anyway, I just wanted to say hello,
Speaker 7: and Darcy says hello and thank you for all the
Speaker 7: support over the last few months, and I will check
Speaker 7: in through.
Speaker 2: By God, I could cry another little Stephen's baby, so
Speaker 2: many of them.
Speaker 1: He is really cute.
Speaker 2: Out loud As class shared pictures on Instagram, so we're
Speaker 2: not telling any tales here. This baby is so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Old babies are beautiful, particularly, and so is the macis run.
Speaker 1: And Claire is so right.
Speaker 2: We are so lucky to have a community like you
Speaker 2: out loud As, who are so supportive of all the
Speaker 2: various things that happened to us. Before we go, we
Speaker 2: have one more thing to tell you, Amelia, and I
Speaker 2: have one more thing to tell you Anyway, Amelia, something
Speaker 2: that both of us have been working on at Mama
Speaker 2: Maya for a few months now has just come into
Speaker 2: the world. It's not a baby. In fact, it's at
Speaker 2: the opposite end of the list story, the.
Speaker 5: End of the life story.
Speaker 4: Let's say adjacent.
Speaker 1: Okay, tell people what it is.
Speaker 6: Adjacent to having babies, Perry, menopause is not the end.
Speaker 5: It's not the end.
Speaker 1: It's a new beginning.
Speaker 6: Adjacent to having babies is perimenopause, and this is something
Speaker 6: people have a lot of questions about. So we decided
Speaker 6: to find out everything you wanted to know about perimenopause
Speaker 6: but didn't know how to ask.
Speaker 2: Some of the sessions are hosted by me. Some of
Speaker 2: them are hosted by Amelia. Amelia gets to ask all
Speaker 2: the good questions. Lee Campbell's doing some of them. Unleashed
Speaker 2: Kats Mahoney's doing some of them, and they're twenty five
Speaker 2: leading perimenopause experts across the twenty sessions of the Very
Speaker 2: Pery on demand series.
Speaker 6: There's so many of these experts and I did a
Speaker 6: number of interviews for it, including with a sleep expert,
Speaker 6: including with someone on how your brain changes.
Speaker 5: And that's why I.
Speaker 6: Can't finish that sentence. And I found that after each session,
Speaker 6: I was telling my friends about all the fascinating facts
Speaker 6: that I had learned in the sessions, which were explaining
Speaker 6: so much about why we're feeling the way we are
Speaker 6: collectively in our forties. So I think it's people are
Speaker 6: going to get.
Speaker 4: A lot out of it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: It is very pery on demand, is bingeable, so you
Speaker 2: can watch it whenever you want to in your trackies
Speaker 2: with a cup of tea. You can watch it more
Speaker 2: than once, all of those kind of things. You click
Speaker 2: the link in our show notes to get access, and
Speaker 2: you can save forty dollars for a limited time on
Speaker 2: the whole very pery on demand, And that really is
Speaker 2: it for today.
Speaker 3: Friends, and think you want to add him, No.
Speaker 1: We love you outladas.
Speaker 4: We'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 5: Bye.
Speaker 3: Mamammy acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which
Speaker 3: we have recorded this podcast.