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Speaker 1: Said you're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on Makeup is My Therapy. I'm in love,

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Speaker 1: I'm obsessed and I'm don't even feel guilty. Body. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the formula. I'm Kelly McCarran, and today I am

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Speaker 1: chatting to the man who has colored the hair of

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Speaker 1: some of the world's biggest celebrities. He's done the entire

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Speaker 1: Beckham family's hair, David Bowie, Kylie Minogue, and his work

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Speaker 1: has been on the runways of Pridor, Mark Jacobs and

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Speaker 1: Louis Baton. Josh Wood has spent thirty years dominating London's

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Speaker 1: hair world, and now he's just landed in Melbourne with

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Speaker 1: the brand's new mecha store. But here's the thing. While

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Speaker 1: most celebrity colorists keep their secrets locked away, Josh decided

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Speaker 1: to give them all away, creating an at home range

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Speaker 1: that exploded during lockdown. He's here to tell us why

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Speaker 1: he's betting big on Australia and why hair color is

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Speaker 1: having its biggest moment yet. You have such beautiful skill,

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Speaker 1: But how welcome to you, beauty. We are thrilled to

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Speaker 1: have you here and congratulations on the Mecca Melbourne launch.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that you'd actually only been in Australia

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Speaker 1: for two weeks though.

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Speaker 2: Right on it on the work straight on the tour.

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Speaker 1: Very very busyah. Take us back though. So you started

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Speaker 1: as an apprentice, like everyone in here would. What was

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Speaker 1: your first big, oh shit, I've really messed this up moment?

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Speaker 1: And how did you fix it? Well?

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Speaker 2: I mean from sweeping floors in a salon in the

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Speaker 2: north of England, in Yorkshire. There were lots of those

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Speaker 2: moments actually where I kind of tripped up. I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize hairdressing was even for me. I just happened upon

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Speaker 2: getting a job in a salon sweeping up to earn

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Speaker 2: money on the weekend. There were a couple of really

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Speaker 2: I think pivotal moments. Firstly, when I thought, right, I

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Speaker 2: can really make a career out of this. It just

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Speaker 2: doesn't have to be a job for somebody that didn't

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Speaker 2: do particularly well at school. But really I think the

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Speaker 2: big turning point was I joined Vidalsa soon when I

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Speaker 2: realized I wanted to make a career out of it

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Speaker 2: and get a really good training and there was a

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Speaker 2: very famous hairdresser that at the time was doing all

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Speaker 2: the photo shoots and films, and that world of what

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Speaker 2: we now call session hairdressers didn't exist then, so he

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Speaker 2: was one of the first. And we were doing a

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Speaker 2: Vogue cover shoot and he said to me, can you

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Speaker 2: blow drive the model's hair? And I was happily away

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Speaker 2: with that blow dryer in hand, And at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day he said to me, have you ever

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Speaker 2: thought about doing color? And I said, well, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: good at it and I really enjoy it, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I could go in that direction. But why he said,

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Speaker 2: you really crap at blow drying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I was literally sitting here thinking, how did like

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Speaker 1: a really good blow dry give him? But that makes

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Speaker 1: so with that.

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Speaker 2: Nugget of career advice, I moved towards color.

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Speaker 1: That is a like sometimes that sort of feedback is

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Speaker 1: exactly what someone needs. And it wasn't give up completely.

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Speaker 1: It was just blow drying not for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just that world just wasn't for me.

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Speaker 1: You still haven't gotten any better at blow drying.

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Speaker 2: Now, you would not want me turning a blow dryer

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Speaker 2: on you.

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Speaker 1: It can't be worse than me. Well, actually, maybe not.

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Speaker 1: I love that story though. That's great. So thirty years

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Speaker 1: of doing this, what is the coolest hair transformation that

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Speaker 1: you've ever done? The one that you still think? I

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Speaker 1: cannot believe that I pulled that off or got to

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Speaker 1: do it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, thirty years is a long time to

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Speaker 2: be doing one thing. There's a lot of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's the ones that kind of you know when I

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Speaker 2: was thinking about it. It's actually since I've been in Australia,

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Speaker 2: I think a couple of the fashion shows that I

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Speaker 2: worked on, I've worked very closely with Mark Jacobs, and

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Speaker 2: he's got such an eye for color, like there's no

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Speaker 2: pulling any wool over his eyes, Like if it's not

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Speaker 2: exactly the right tone, he's on it straight away. And

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Speaker 2: I've done two or three shows with Mark, but one

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Speaker 2: in particular wered about thirty of the models and they

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Speaker 2: all had to be blonde and these different kind of

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Speaker 2: pastile shades and it was very very intense work. And

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Speaker 2: it was kind of weird because when I looked at

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Speaker 2: the show, and I stood at the show and I've

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Speaker 2: seen footage afterwards, somehow it doesn't identify that they're all

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Speaker 2: the same hair color. It's so weird that you've made

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Speaker 2: all these girls with different skin tones and different eye colors.

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Speaker 2: But there's just something so cohesive about a group of

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Speaker 2: people that look incredibly glamorous because it was all bleach

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Speaker 2: to bleach everybody's hair, do it pale? Pink?

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Speaker 1: Or did they know prior to the show that that's

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Speaker 1: what they were doing?

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Speaker 2: Okay, they only had to be cut. They were cast

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Speaker 2: for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were like, who's okay with their hair being

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Speaker 1: absolutely fried?

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Speaker 2: No, it wasn't fried at all. Actually no, No, we

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Speaker 2: were very gentle and slow and slow as they call it.

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Speaker 2: It was a very slow process. But nope, no frying whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: Actually very good, shiny, beautiful, conditioned hair. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go on have a look at this

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Speaker 1: show after the recorder because I really want to see

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Speaker 1: the photos.

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Speaker 2: And then there's a couple of you know, like real

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Speaker 2: high points. I've worked for many, many years with a

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Speaker 2: model called Kristen mcnenemy that when I first started working

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Speaker 2: with her, you know, like one of the supermodels, she

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Speaker 2: had black hair, and over the years we've now turned

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Speaker 2: her great. She is gray, but we've made her more gray,

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Speaker 2: and she has waistline hair and it's kind of almost

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Speaker 2: reinvented her career.

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Speaker 1: Wow, how do you make someone more gray?

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Speaker 2: You kind of weave in different kind of high lights

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Speaker 2: and low lights, and it's an optical illusion, but you

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Speaker 2: can actually make somebody look pretty silvery gray platinum.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I'm even thinking to myself, when I've overtoned, I can, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a little bit gray myself. So you've got a great

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Speaker 1: roster of clients. The late David Bowie to Victoria Beckham.

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Speaker 1: Most colors at your level would guard your secrets that

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Speaker 1: you've learned along the way with your life. You'd be

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Speaker 1: like absolutely not not giving that away. But you decided

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Speaker 1: to teach everyone how to do it themselves. How did

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Speaker 1: you and why did you decide to do that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've never been one for segmenting a market

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Speaker 2: or keeping It's not actually about secrets for me, It's

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Speaker 2: about enabling people to really feel the power of hair color.

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Speaker 2: And I really believe everybody deserves a good hair color,

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Speaker 2: wherever you're doing it, wherever, whatever. And I think also

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Speaker 2: as well, because I've been in the industry for such

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Speaker 2: a long time and only done one thing coloring, I

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Speaker 2: really think if I didn't democratize that knowledge I don't

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Speaker 2: know how fulfilling that would be coming towards, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of the autumn or winter of my career, it

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Speaker 2: feels like I think it's a really old fashioned attitude

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Speaker 2: not to collaborate and not to include everybody in that

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Speaker 2: kind of feeling that a really good hair color can

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Speaker 2: unlock for you, that confidence, giving that boost, that feeling special.

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Speaker 2: You know, the people that have been coloring hair at

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Speaker 2: home are starved of expert tips on knowledge. So for me,

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Speaker 2: it's not about giving trade secrets away. It's really about

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Speaker 2: modernizing the conversation around Everybody should have a good hair color.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't matter where you are in the world or

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Speaker 1: what you're doing. That's such a good point. There's something

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Speaker 1: very interesting about your career arc because you were doing

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Speaker 1: these massive fashion shows where you're sort of controlling every

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Speaker 1: single detail. Like you know, I've been backstage at these

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Speaker 1: sorts of shows in every single detail. You couldn't even

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Speaker 1: imagine the minuteness of it someone that hasn't seen that.

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Speaker 1: So to creating these products for people that you're never

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Speaker 1: going to meet, So how do you bottle up that

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Speaker 1: expertise so it works when you're not there?

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Speaker 2: It's a really great question. I think formulation conditions at

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Speaker 2: the core of everything that we do. Our Miracle system

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Speaker 2: has a in built shine complex, which is all about

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Speaker 2: strengthening and moisturizing hair. You can also add more conditioner

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Speaker 2: into the permanent hair color to create a reaction that

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Speaker 2: conditioning and coloring are happening at the same time. So

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Speaker 2: that old fashioned kind of idea that the more you

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Speaker 2: color your hair, the more you fry it is completely

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Speaker 2: the opposite with us. The more you color, the stronger

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Speaker 2: your hair's becoming, and the more hydrated your hair's becoming.

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Speaker 2: So for me, it's about expertise.

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Speaker 1: Because some people have to color their hair a lot

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Speaker 1: if they're trying to cover grays in particular, because they

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Speaker 1: come through so quickly.

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Speaker 2: I've got people that color their hair every ten days. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but again, I think unlocking the right hair color one

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Speaker 2: of the one of the biggest tips is identifying how

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Speaker 2: gray someone is and what color they are. Most people

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Speaker 2: have no idea what hair color they are. They say, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm nearly black and it's dark blonde. They say, I've

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Speaker 2: always been a blonde. It's brunette. I mean, like hair changes,

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Speaker 2: hair color changes throughout aging. So for me, the idea

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Speaker 2: that one is making things incredibly simple, really easy to understand.

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Speaker 2: Abc of coloring, but the most important thing is condition, condition, condition,

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Speaker 2: so it's.

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Speaker 1: Not then dry and different, like getting patchy and yeah,

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Speaker 1: because then it sticks to different parts. So I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to do my own hair. I might do you

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Speaker 1: do blonde?

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Speaker 2: No, We are very very clear about what you can

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Speaker 2: do at home. Yeah, but what you can't.

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Speaker 1: That's the advice that I always give people. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: just don't. I mean, of course, my mom does her

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Speaker 1: own blonde hair, and she does a great job. But

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Speaker 1: I would say for most people, just but.

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Speaker 2: If your mum's got a bit of gray, like if

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Speaker 2: it's dark to blonde, no way, No, she's pretty fair.

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Speaker 2: If it's a fairly light shehad, and you go into

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Speaker 2: or three shares lighter easier if you're gray and you

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Speaker 2: want to be blonde, easy, easy, easy. But that idea

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Speaker 2: that you can use a bleach at home, for me,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know there are products out there, and

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Speaker 2: I respect everybody's view, but for me, there's a moment

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Speaker 2: where you need to beat a path straight to the salon.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I completely agree, and my hair has thanked to me.

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Speaker 1: Since I made that decision and stopped showing at myself

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Speaker 1: during lockdown, your business grew an astronomical amount. Like I

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Speaker 1: had to double check the number and I'm not even

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Speaker 1: going to try to read it. It's two six and

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Speaker 1: thirty eight percent, Yes, year on year. What did that

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Speaker 1: explosion teach you about what people actually want from their

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Speaker 1: hair color experience?

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Speaker 2: You know, it was a really interesting one because it

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Speaker 2: was such a traumatic time for everyone. But one of

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Speaker 2: the first you know, the first time that we were

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Speaker 2: told everything's closed and you're in a lot of people's

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Speaker 2: a lot of women's reaction was shit, I'm gray. I

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Speaker 2: mean we had everything, we had things from Like my

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Speaker 2: husband doesn't even know I color my hair. I can't

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Speaker 2: go on zoom with gray hair.

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Speaker 1: People are wearing like a Fedora on zoom.

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Speaker 2: Like you know, a couple of like one woman was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I can curt with homeschooling, I can do

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Speaker 2: the meals. I am not going gray. So actually, my

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Speaker 2: whole working life had been having a conversation, a dialogue,

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Speaker 2: a consultation with somebody that wants to go to a salon.

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Speaker 2: We started talking to people that had never ever stepped

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Speaker 2: foot in a salon before, so it was like I

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Speaker 2: learned so much during that process. It was fascinating. I

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Speaker 2: think people look at the same images, whether it's in

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Speaker 2: a magazine or on Instagram or looking at celebrities. You know,

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Speaker 2: somebody that's coloring at home will look at a celebrity

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Speaker 2: in the same way that somebody that's going to a salon,

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Speaker 2: but they both believe they're going to get the same result.

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Speaker 1: And actually neither.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no. So for us it was a real

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Speaker 2: piece of education. I mean, we hired about twenty five

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Speaker 2: digital colorists. Some from our team in London had got

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Speaker 2: on those phones and got on those digital zoom consultations

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Speaker 2: and started to advise and actually taking the learns, you know,

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Speaker 2: really listening to people, I think in a way to

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Speaker 2: be honest with you was one of the reasons for

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Speaker 2: such success. I mean, okay, we were the only company

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Speaker 2: probably around that could post hair color through your letterbox,

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Speaker 2: which is rather handy, but for me, that would have

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Speaker 2: never worked if it wasn't linked to somebody asking for help.

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Speaker 2: And what was fascinating and really heartwarming was we found

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Speaker 2: people that had always colored at home would get on

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Speaker 2: a Facebook or a forum and be helping people that

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Speaker 2: had never colored their hair at home.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's so lovely, because yeah, someone that's been doing

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Speaker 1: it for thirty years or twenty probably good today. They're

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Speaker 1: very good at it. They can be the back by

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Speaker 1: themselves just by feel. We know that a lot of

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Speaker 1: listeners are experimenting with at home coloring, especially you know

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Speaker 1: there's a cost of living crisis, and we sort of

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Speaker 1: changed our perception of DIY beauty. I think through lockdown,

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Speaker 1: what are your top dos and don'ts for anyone who

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Speaker 1: is thinking about coloring their hair at home? And the

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Speaker 1: biggest mistake that you do see people making well First and.

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Speaker 2: Foremost, we never call it do it yourself. We call

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Speaker 2: it do it together. Because we are online. We are

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Speaker 2: We're at every touch point that somebody needs. We're in

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Speaker 2: the bathroom with them. So you can jump on the chat,

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Speaker 2: you can jump on chats, you can get tutorials, we

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Speaker 2: can even get a colorist to take you through what

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Speaker 2: you're doing. I wanted to really kind of modernize that

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Speaker 2: experience and stop that feeling that if you're doing something

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Speaker 2: at her it is less than or.

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Speaker 1: You get to a point you go, oh my goodness, what.

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Speaker 2: Have I done. The biggest tips, really the biggest challenges

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Speaker 2: that people have. As I've said, how gray am I,

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Speaker 2: They've no idea, and actually choosing the right shade for

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Speaker 2: you is base quite a lot on how gray you are.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing is most people choose a color

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Speaker 2: that's too dark. You have to look at a little

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Speaker 2: section of your hair. I generally say, look at it

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Speaker 2: around the temple and start to think about how many

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Speaker 2: gray hairs in comparison to how many dark hairs are

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Speaker 2: still there, and that'll give you a really broad idea

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Speaker 2: of how gray you are, and if in doubt, always

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Speaker 2: go a shade lighter. And the other thing is people think, well,

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Speaker 2: I've got all this goo in the bottle or in

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Speaker 2: the bowl, I've got to use it all. Like I'm

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Speaker 2: a big believer in just covering the gray and refreshing

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Speaker 2: the ends with a different product like a gloss, which

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Speaker 2: is just a semi permanent color. But you don't need

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Speaker 2: to refresh and comb the color through every single time

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Speaker 2: all the way to the ends of your hair. It

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Speaker 2: can dehydrate your hair. It's just it's not just not necessary.

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Speaker 2: So for me, it's a bit like thinking about makeup,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're not going to put a heavy concealer

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Speaker 2: over your whole face. Use the right weight of color,

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Speaker 2: the right product on the right piece of hair.

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Speaker 1: And what about someone that's wanting to do something drastic

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Speaker 1: so they're blonde and they want to go brinette.

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Speaker 2: Yeses, I mean, we're a brand that really believes that

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Speaker 2: we're there to help people tone their hair, gloss their hair,

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Speaker 2: cover gray. I think you can. I think you can

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Speaker 2: manage that if you're blonde. I think generally fifty percent

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Speaker 2: of the people are disappointed with the result because that, again,

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Speaker 2: it's quite a complex process. I mean, look blonde to black,

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Speaker 2: dead easy, Yeah, blonde to red fairly easy, blonde to

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Speaker 2: a really gorgeous brown or a sun kissed look back

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Speaker 2: to the salon, my dear, Yeah, you go.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to You don't realize that it's not just

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Speaker 1: yea brown.

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Speaker 2: It's made up of the multitude.

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Speaker 1: Of When I was a teenager, I would do box

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Speaker 1: Diyes on my hair and I'd put a red down first,

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Speaker 1: but then still sometimes it would still throw a bit

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Speaker 1: of green, just wasn't I mean, this was a long

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Speaker 1: time ago as well, so they and we've come a

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Speaker 1: long way in terms of formula. You have done fashion

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Speaker 1: Week with Chanelle and Birbery for years, so paint the picture.

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Speaker 1: You're backstage at Louis Vuitton, complete madness. You've got an

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Speaker 1: hour to totally change a model's hair color. What's going

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Speaker 1: through your head? Are you panicking? Or can you do it? So?

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Speaker 2: It doesn't actually work? Like?

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Speaker 1: Okay, it sounds good in theory though, sounds very exciting.

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Speaker 2: I like the setup you've given me, But you generally

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Speaker 2: are up two days solid and.

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Speaker 1: You sorry you're up. You're not sleeping for two days

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Speaker 1: two days.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're work in shifts, okay, but I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of needed there pretty much most of the time. And

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Speaker 2: you only get the girls released when you know. If

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Speaker 2: somebody's doing a show before the show that you're coloring for,

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Speaker 2: you obviously can't color them, yea. So they drip in

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Speaker 2: throughout the day and night, and quite often we might

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Speaker 2: do a little bit of pre work to help us,

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Speaker 2: and then they go off and do something else. But

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Speaker 2: we never left with an hour. They generally have got

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Speaker 2: at least three to four hours before the show. But

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Speaker 2: the minute that girl arrives or that guy arrives, we're

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Speaker 2: on them. And two or three of us will be

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Speaker 2: working that one person to get the result. And you've

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Speaker 2: got to remember every single thing has to be approved

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Speaker 2: by the designer. So every finish, every single look that

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Speaker 2: is done back, they go back into the fitting with

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Speaker 2: the hair color. Everything's photographed, documented, and then we get

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Speaker 2: a sign off or not. We get it sent back

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Speaker 2: and say they want lighter or do it.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, But I.

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Speaker 2: Guess because I've been doing it is there's not many

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Speaker 2: sendbacks anymore. Yeah, I could nail it pretty much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that you can. So you've launched into a Mecca

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Speaker 1: Burk Street. Very exciting. They're notoriously picky about partnerships, and

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Speaker 1: you are the first ever color brand to partner with Mecca.

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Speaker 1: Joe Horgan said that they were literally jumping up and

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Speaker 1: down when you said yes. What convinced you that Australia

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Speaker 1: is worth your very first international experts.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it's my first day here in Sydney,

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Speaker 2: so you've got to forgive me being having a love

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Speaker 2: fest with Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: Also, the weather he sucks in Sydney, so very valid.

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Speaker 2: And it's been really sunny in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that's very fair. I'm so I'm

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Speaker 1: living Sydney and I'm like team every single other state

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Speaker 1: at this point.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what can I say? I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 2: that Burke Street store. I mean I travel the world,

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Speaker 2: let me tell you, and I have not seen anything

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Speaker 2: like that ever. It is un believable. The quality of

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Speaker 2: the fixtures, the fittings, the ideas, the introduction to a

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00:18:45,905 --> 00:18:48,905
Speaker 2: younger people learning what their fragrance is or what skin

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Speaker 2: they've got, or it's mind blowing what they've captured in them.

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Speaker 2: It's a big location. We've also opened a salon there.

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Speaker 2: It's our first salon outside of the UK. Look, I

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Speaker 2: think really practical things kind of great that we all

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Speaker 2: speak English. It helps with hair color that you're not

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Speaker 2: trying to translate something into another language. That sometimes there's

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Speaker 2: a I mean I've done that. You know, one person's

365
00:19:12,745 --> 00:19:15,945
Speaker 2: buttery blonde is a different person's buttery blonde in other

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Speaker 2: parts of the world. Joe Marita, her team, they are

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Speaker 2: a dream to work with, straightforward, super supportive, nurturing. We

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Speaker 2: were incredibly nervous. I mean, we've got an incredible brand.

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Speaker 2: We have got a really strong salon business in the UK.

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Speaker 2: Our location in notting Hill and with the hotel clarages

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Speaker 2: and it's very precious to us. But it felt right,

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Speaker 2: It felt exactly the right fit. And since we've been here,

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Speaker 2: five of my team from the UK have relocated to

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Speaker 2: live in Australia and then we've we've trained some local hairdressers.

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Speaker 2: But when the Mecca team and the Joshua team got together,

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Speaker 2: it was like they'd always been together. Yeah, we've got

377
00:20:01,105 --> 00:20:03,025
Speaker 2: a lot to do, there's a lot to learn, there's

378
00:20:03,065 --> 00:20:04,545
Speaker 2: a lot there's a lot of you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: getting it right. But I really really like Mecha's approach

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Speaker 2: and I think that's why Mecca has been so successful

381
00:20:11,865 --> 00:20:14,865
Speaker 2: because it's exactly the same for us. Our customer, our

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00:20:14,905 --> 00:20:16,865
Speaker 2: client is at the center of everything that we do.

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Speaker 2: If they're not happy, we don't have a business. Yeah,

384
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Speaker 2: so sharing the similar values is really good for us.

385
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Speaker 1: And you said that you want to put hair color

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Speaker 1: back in the spotlight here in Australia. What are we

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Speaker 1: doing wrong?

388
00:20:29,545 --> 00:20:31,345
Speaker 2: I don't think there's I don't think there's any wrong.

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Speaker 1: No, what you can be bulling.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've been here a couple of weeks and

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Speaker 2: I've known, Look, Australian hairdresses are really good I know

392
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Speaker 2: a lot.

393
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Speaker 1: Of them, not a lot of duds.

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Speaker 2: No, I've got to be honest. They're really well trained.

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00:20:43,865 --> 00:20:46,705
Speaker 2: I know a lot of them. I think what we

396
00:20:46,745 --> 00:20:52,425
Speaker 2: are doing is finessing artistry, creativity. We're bringing a thirty

397
00:20:52,545 --> 00:20:56,785
Speaker 2: year experience of working in many, many, many different environments

398
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Speaker 2: to the high Street and I think that's accept. It's

399
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Speaker 2: super exciting for us to be here both creating services

400
00:21:06,745 --> 00:21:10,225
Speaker 2: and you know, linking everything that we do to our brand.

401
00:21:10,665 --> 00:21:12,785
Speaker 2: We look at things from a different lens as most

402
00:21:12,865 --> 00:21:16,385
Speaker 2: artists do. What we do is no better than anybody else,

403
00:21:16,385 --> 00:21:17,105
Speaker 2: it's just different.

404
00:21:17,785 --> 00:21:20,905
Speaker 1: Yeah, our hair is different though, isn't it? Or it's

405
00:21:21,025 --> 00:21:24,945
Speaker 1: just that our elements are so harsh? Or is that?

406
00:21:25,105 --> 00:21:26,865
Speaker 2: No? Hair is hair?

407
00:21:26,985 --> 00:21:27,505
Speaker 1: Hair is hair.

408
00:21:27,545 --> 00:21:29,585
Speaker 2: It's the same fabric all over the world, made up

409
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Speaker 2: of the same proteins.

410
00:21:30,665 --> 00:21:32,905
Speaker 1: But ow what, the sun doesn't make it different.

411
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Speaker 2: I think environmental damage is different.

412
00:21:35,185 --> 00:21:35,905
Speaker 1: I think U V.

413
00:21:37,105 --> 00:21:40,225
Speaker 2: But you know, you guys are so much more aware

414
00:21:40,425 --> 00:21:43,545
Speaker 2: of the sun and UV than we are. In Like,

415
00:21:43,665 --> 00:21:45,905
Speaker 2: you know, you see people that are the color of

416
00:21:46,065 --> 00:21:49,185
Speaker 2: a lobster in the UK. Yes, so if that's happening

417
00:21:49,225 --> 00:21:51,425
Speaker 2: to their skin, what's happening to their hair so true.

418
00:21:51,505 --> 00:21:53,945
Speaker 2: So you're not exposing yourself in a way that we

419
00:21:53,945 --> 00:21:55,905
Speaker 2: would expose ourselves.

420
00:21:55,425 --> 00:21:58,105
Speaker 1: And London is anyone from the UK when they get

421
00:21:58,105 --> 00:22:02,065
Speaker 1: to Australia, they're just yeah, sun worshipers. Where we stopped

422
00:22:02,105 --> 00:22:02,985
Speaker 1: doing that quite a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so interesting. I was chatting to a

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Speaker 2: woman the other day, got very gray hair, and she said,

425
00:22:07,625 --> 00:22:10,785
Speaker 2: you know, she said, I don't sun bake like you English.

426
00:22:10,985 --> 00:22:12,625
Speaker 2: I was like, it's exactly what we do. It's not

427
00:22:12,785 --> 00:22:17,265
Speaker 2: some bathing, it's some baking, biking, biking. So yeah, fabric

428
00:22:17,265 --> 00:22:20,545
Speaker 2: of the hair is exactly the same. I think you

429
00:22:21,065 --> 00:22:24,465
Speaker 2: in theory aren't getting as much environmental exposure as we

430
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Speaker 2: are in Europe. I think there is a bit of water.

431
00:22:28,585 --> 00:22:31,385
Speaker 2: I think also as well. I think when you are

432
00:22:31,385 --> 00:22:35,025
Speaker 2: in a sunny environment, even if you're not in the sun,

433
00:22:35,585 --> 00:22:40,545
Speaker 2: it's blonder, blonder, blonder, blonder blonder. If anything, We've been

434
00:22:40,585 --> 00:22:44,265
Speaker 2: doing quite a few make unders rather than make overs. Okay,

435
00:22:44,385 --> 00:22:47,265
Speaker 2: it's a kind of tonal difference. It's a bit cooler,

436
00:22:47,345 --> 00:22:49,425
Speaker 2: maybe a bit not cooler as in terms a bit

437
00:22:49,705 --> 00:22:52,745
Speaker 2: like Europe. There's a real moment for like a grow out.

438
00:22:53,225 --> 00:22:54,545
Speaker 1: Yeah, more lived in here.

439
00:22:54,625 --> 00:22:56,665
Speaker 2: Yeah, like people don't want to, like they don't want

440
00:22:56,665 --> 00:22:59,345
Speaker 2: to kind of have to do their highlights every six weeks. Yeah,

441
00:22:59,385 --> 00:23:01,425
Speaker 2: there's this, and there are some techniques that we do

442
00:23:01,465 --> 00:23:05,785
Speaker 2: that give you that kind of slightly less high maintenance look.

443
00:23:12,305 --> 00:23:15,505
Speaker 1: For thirty years, I'm sure that you've seen a million

444
00:23:15,545 --> 00:23:19,385
Speaker 1: different trends come and go. What's the one hair color

445
00:23:19,425 --> 00:23:21,785
Speaker 1: trend that you thought absolutely wouldn't work? But did.

446
00:23:22,345 --> 00:23:25,505
Speaker 2: Somebody said to me that I invented dip dying because

447
00:23:25,505 --> 00:23:27,745
Speaker 2: I did it in the nineties, but I didn't know

448
00:23:27,785 --> 00:23:30,345
Speaker 2: it was dip dying. I was doing a show and

449
00:23:30,385 --> 00:23:34,505
Speaker 2: that we'd put like red and blue and purple on

450
00:23:34,585 --> 00:23:37,345
Speaker 2: the ends of these girls hair. I don't know. I

451
00:23:37,345 --> 00:23:40,825
Speaker 2: think that's color in the ends of hair is really

452
00:23:40,865 --> 00:23:44,745
Speaker 2: interesting and I never ever ever thought people would pay

453
00:23:45,345 --> 00:23:47,225
Speaker 2: just to have the ends of their hair colored. And

454
00:23:47,225 --> 00:23:49,505
Speaker 2: that's not necessarily whether it's a weird color like a

455
00:23:49,545 --> 00:23:51,345
Speaker 2: blue or a pink or a like. You know, there's

456
00:23:51,345 --> 00:23:54,705
Speaker 2: a lot of like blonding in the ends as reverse balliage.

457
00:23:54,865 --> 00:23:59,105
Speaker 2: There's micro balliade. It's fascinating to me that that almost

458
00:23:59,465 --> 00:24:03,385
Speaker 2: it feels punky, which I quite like. Yeah, but it

459
00:24:03,545 --> 00:24:06,145
Speaker 2: is one for me that I was like, you jog

460
00:24:06,225 --> 00:24:09,025
Speaker 2: on with that one because nobody's going to want that one.

461
00:24:09,025 --> 00:24:11,385
Speaker 2: And I really to eat my words because there was

462
00:24:11,425 --> 00:24:13,785
Speaker 2: a plethora of people that wanted you.

463
00:24:13,745 --> 00:24:14,425
Speaker 1: Start seeing it.

464
00:24:14,585 --> 00:24:16,785
Speaker 2: Yes, I love it. Yeah, just at the time, I

465
00:24:16,865 --> 00:24:19,705
Speaker 2: was like, that's not going to take off. How wrong

466
00:24:19,825 --> 00:24:20,025
Speaker 2: was I?

467
00:24:21,825 --> 00:24:24,425
Speaker 1: What do you think is the next big thing in here?

468
00:24:24,745 --> 00:24:27,465
Speaker 2: I think there's a very lived in look. I think

469
00:24:27,505 --> 00:24:30,745
Speaker 2: there's a lot of techniques around, like root tap, root stretch.

470
00:24:31,465 --> 00:24:35,065
Speaker 2: A root tap is you highlight somebody said, right up

471
00:24:35,065 --> 00:24:37,225
Speaker 2: to the root like you would do normally, and then

472
00:24:37,265 --> 00:24:39,145
Speaker 2: you go in and you tap the roots with a

473
00:24:39,145 --> 00:24:42,145
Speaker 2: little bit of like a shadow. So it's kind of

474
00:24:42,265 --> 00:24:45,025
Speaker 2: it's lighter than you would be naturally, but it doesn't

475
00:24:45,025 --> 00:24:47,745
Speaker 2: look like you're highlighted right up to the root. Yeah,

476
00:24:47,785 --> 00:24:49,145
Speaker 2: it's got like a shadow.

477
00:24:49,425 --> 00:24:50,625
Speaker 1: Okay, there's a.

478
00:24:50,545 --> 00:24:53,345
Speaker 2: Lot of kind of like dark underneath with blonder toops

479
00:24:53,385 --> 00:24:58,025
Speaker 2: face framing. It's partial color, I think is what I'm

480
00:24:58,065 --> 00:25:02,465
Speaker 2: talking about is Nerbody's really not that norbody, But I

481
00:25:02,505 --> 00:25:04,265
Speaker 2: think the mood is that you don't have a full

482
00:25:04,305 --> 00:25:07,025
Speaker 2: head of highlights. It's a bit more like it's a

483
00:25:07,065 --> 00:25:14,625
Speaker 2: bit more contrasty, and it looks well, you know, hairline.

484
00:25:14,665 --> 00:25:16,825
Speaker 2: You know, if you do a hairlow hairline, or you

485
00:25:16,825 --> 00:25:18,785
Speaker 2: know you're doing you know, you're doing that kind of

486
00:25:18,905 --> 00:25:21,225
Speaker 2: very blond in the front. That's still maintenance because if

487
00:25:21,225 --> 00:25:23,265
Speaker 2: people tell your hair back, you've got to do the roots.

488
00:25:23,745 --> 00:25:27,145
Speaker 2: But it's not the full head mentality. That takes three

489
00:25:27,185 --> 00:25:30,945
Speaker 2: hours and it's quiet, labor intensive, and all of your

490
00:25:30,985 --> 00:25:33,345
Speaker 2: hair is colored, so all of your hair can feel

491
00:25:33,585 --> 00:25:36,745
Speaker 2: a different texture. People are wanting to leave bits of

492
00:25:36,785 --> 00:25:40,825
Speaker 2: their hair more natural, so there's a contrasting condition between

493
00:25:40,865 --> 00:25:43,825
Speaker 2: the piece that's colored and the piece that's natural. I mean,

494
00:25:44,385 --> 00:25:46,665
Speaker 2: I've yet to get around Sydney and have a good look.

495
00:25:46,705 --> 00:25:50,985
Speaker 2: But again, I think when the sun shining, it's nice

496
00:25:50,985 --> 00:25:55,105
Speaker 2: to feel bright and buzzy. But I do think there

497
00:25:55,105 --> 00:25:58,545
Speaker 2: are a few techniques that we're seeing coming through in

498
00:25:58,625 --> 00:26:04,825
Speaker 2: London or in Europe that are blonde without shouting that

499
00:26:04,865 --> 00:26:10,425
Speaker 2: you're blonde. It's more separated. It's obviously colored, but it's

500
00:26:10,585 --> 00:26:11,745
Speaker 2: not all colored.

501
00:26:11,905 --> 00:26:16,705
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, if you could do anyone's hair dead or

502
00:26:16,745 --> 00:26:20,065
Speaker 1: alive in the entire like universe, who would it be

503
00:26:20,105 --> 00:26:20,785
Speaker 1: and what would you do?

504
00:26:21,185 --> 00:26:23,145
Speaker 2: It's a really good question.

505
00:26:24,385 --> 00:26:25,265
Speaker 1: I can't take care of it.

506
00:26:25,305 --> 00:26:25,545
Speaker 2: For it.

507
00:26:25,625 --> 00:26:27,545
Speaker 1: I read it too with the producer and I was like,

508
00:26:27,625 --> 00:26:29,145
Speaker 1: that is an outstanding question.

509
00:26:29,265 --> 00:26:30,665
Speaker 2: Well, I've done a lot of people, and I've done

510
00:26:30,665 --> 00:26:32,785
Speaker 2: a lot of people that I really really wanted to

511
00:26:32,825 --> 00:26:36,985
Speaker 2: work with, and I've worked with them. But what's that comedian? Oh,

512
00:26:37,025 --> 00:26:42,625
Speaker 2: I'm desperate to get my hands on Celeste barber Y. Yes,

513
00:26:42,665 --> 00:26:46,825
Speaker 2: if you're watching with Josh Wood at Burke Street, mecha,

514
00:26:47,345 --> 00:26:48,305
Speaker 2: what would you do?

515
00:26:48,465 --> 00:26:50,705
Speaker 1: I love her humor, She's hilarious.

516
00:26:50,705 --> 00:26:51,585
Speaker 2: I love the way.

517
00:26:51,505 --> 00:26:53,945
Speaker 1: She's also lovely, really lovely.

518
00:26:54,145 --> 00:26:56,145
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I just I really think that

519
00:26:56,665 --> 00:27:01,905
Speaker 2: there's just something about what she's identifying with the beauty

520
00:27:02,025 --> 00:27:06,665
Speaker 2: community that so bang on. And I really I probably

521
00:27:06,665 --> 00:27:07,825
Speaker 2: more than do a hair, I'd like to have a

522
00:27:07,865 --> 00:27:09,665
Speaker 2: drink with her. That's I couldn't do a hair.

523
00:27:09,865 --> 00:27:12,825
Speaker 1: Have a drink, Yeah, have a yap, have a tipple

524
00:27:13,505 --> 00:27:14,585
Speaker 1: and do it. What are you going to do to

525
00:27:14,585 --> 00:27:14,865
Speaker 1: your hair?

526
00:27:14,865 --> 00:27:17,305
Speaker 2: Though? I don't know. I've got a few like little

527
00:27:17,385 --> 00:27:18,785
Speaker 2: Krameli toffee.

528
00:27:20,305 --> 00:27:23,145
Speaker 1: It's celast Do you heard it? You first? Josh wants

529
00:27:23,185 --> 00:27:26,225
Speaker 1: to do your hair? And I'm asking this because I'm

530
00:27:26,225 --> 00:27:28,945
Speaker 1: in this chair and you're an expert. What with your

531
00:27:28,985 --> 00:27:31,145
Speaker 1: expert I do you think is my perfect color?

532
00:27:31,385 --> 00:27:34,345
Speaker 2: Well, you're a blonde, definitely with that, I think so

533
00:27:34,465 --> 00:27:36,825
Speaker 2: too your eye color and skin tone.

534
00:27:37,065 --> 00:27:39,025
Speaker 1: People say, why don't you do this? I've been every

535
00:27:39,065 --> 00:27:40,625
Speaker 1: other color. I think I'm a blonde.

536
00:27:41,265 --> 00:27:43,985
Speaker 2: I don't know whether you should shouldn't do a single bleach?

537
00:27:44,665 --> 00:27:45,025
Speaker 1: Really?

538
00:27:45,305 --> 00:27:47,945
Speaker 2: Why I'm not young? Pretty out there having fun?

539
00:27:48,025 --> 00:27:50,745
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're so lovely. I am not that young,

540
00:27:50,825 --> 00:27:53,625
Speaker 1: and I don't want very pretty. Thank you. I don't

541
00:27:53,625 --> 00:27:54,985
Speaker 1: know if I can commit, though.

542
00:27:54,865 --> 00:27:56,985
Speaker 2: I'm a committed already. True.

543
00:27:57,385 --> 00:28:00,025
Speaker 1: True, that is so true, you reckon. I should do

544
00:28:00,025 --> 00:28:00,665
Speaker 1: a full bleach.

545
00:28:01,185 --> 00:28:04,465
Speaker 2: Look, I just think it would be more purposeful. Yeah,

546
00:28:04,585 --> 00:28:05,625
Speaker 2: I mean, and you don't have to do it all.

547
00:28:05,665 --> 00:28:07,585
Speaker 2: You could do the hairline and just the parts. It

548
00:28:07,585 --> 00:28:09,385
Speaker 2: looks like you don't have to do the underneath, because

549
00:28:09,385 --> 00:28:10,345
Speaker 2: nobody underneath.

550
00:28:10,825 --> 00:28:12,625
Speaker 1: I don't often get a full head anyway.

551
00:28:12,825 --> 00:28:14,225
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think you could go for it

552
00:28:14,305 --> 00:28:15,185
Speaker 2: all right, Maybe I'm going.

553
00:28:15,145 --> 00:28:17,865
Speaker 1: To do that for some much. Just why not have fun?

554
00:28:18,345 --> 00:28:20,465
Speaker 1: I'd lovely You've agreed that I'm a blonde, though I

555
00:28:20,465 --> 00:28:22,265
Speaker 1: was a bit scared that you'd say you should be

556
00:28:22,265 --> 00:28:25,585
Speaker 1: a chocolate brown, and then I'm a rats, although I

557
00:28:25,665 --> 00:28:28,265
Speaker 1: know what I would use if.

558
00:28:28,065 --> 00:28:30,705
Speaker 2: I was from your blonde starting point.

559
00:28:30,905 --> 00:28:33,865
Speaker 1: No, no, no, not from my blonde starting point. That's that's

560
00:28:33,865 --> 00:28:36,545
Speaker 1: a great lesson and great tip. Well, everyone is going

561
00:28:36,625 --> 00:28:38,945
Speaker 1: to love this conversation as much as I've loved having it.

562
00:28:39,265 --> 00:28:41,985
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and stories

563
00:28:41,985 --> 00:28:42,745
Speaker 1: and expertise.

564
00:28:43,225 --> 00:28:43,625
Speaker 2: Thank you.

565
00:28:44,305 --> 00:28:46,505
Speaker 1: I learned so much from that conversation, and I hope

566
00:28:46,545 --> 00:28:48,905
Speaker 1: you did too. I'm sure that you did. I can't

567
00:28:48,985 --> 00:28:51,545
Speaker 1: wait to go into the Mecca Burke Street store and

568
00:28:51,625 --> 00:28:53,785
Speaker 1: try this out for myself and see Josh and the

569
00:28:53,825 --> 00:28:56,905
Speaker 1: team in action. Whether you've never touched hair dye before

570
00:28:57,105 --> 00:28:59,985
Speaker 1: or you're already obsessed with at home color, Josh would

571
00:29:00,105 --> 00:29:03,385
Speaker 1: feels like a proper game changer. Be sure to check

572
00:29:03,425 --> 00:29:06,265
Speaker 1: us out on Instagram at You Beauty Podcast, have a

573
00:29:06,305 --> 00:29:09,345
Speaker 1: scroll through our YouTube channel and subscribe to our beauty newsletter.

574
00:29:09,745 --> 00:29:11,785
Speaker 1: You'll find all the links in the show notes and

575
00:29:11,865 --> 00:29:14,705
Speaker 1: make sure you follow us. We're all over Instagram and TikTok.

576
00:29:14,985 --> 00:29:17,025
Speaker 1: Once again, those links will be in the show notes.

577
00:29:17,305 --> 00:29:26,865
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week. Bye,