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Speaker 1: You're listening to a mother Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded.

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Speaker 2: On Hello Hello Bump listeners, it's Grace here. So many

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Speaker 2: of you have been following my journey through pregnancy on

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Speaker 2: Hello Bump, and honestly, your support has my lot. The

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Speaker 2: dms that I've received, people asking for the questions about

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Speaker 2: pelvic floor physios or reaching out to hear my birth story,

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Speaker 2: You've been through all the ups and downs with me,

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Speaker 2: and the excitement and the nerves and basically everything. I've

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Speaker 2: shared everything of my journey along the way, So thank

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Speaker 2: you for listening, ah, and now I'm very excited to

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Speaker 2: share with you the next chapter. I recently sat down

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Speaker 2: with Kelly McCarran and Key re Searls on their podcast Eat, Sleep,

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Speaker 2: Repeat to share my birth story and what it's been

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Speaker 2: like becoming a parent and talking about the very intense

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Speaker 2: first six weeks of parenthood. So if you've been wondering

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Speaker 2: what happened after all those Hello Bump episodes, this is

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Speaker 2: where you'll find out. And I hope you enjoyed the episode.

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Speaker 2: And I'm recording this with my daughter Nora strapped to

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Speaker 2: my chest and you can probably hear some of her breathing.

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Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 3: So our guest today is a very special former colleague

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Speaker 3: turned friend of mine, Grace and also Kelly's.

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Speaker 1: But I tell myself, well, yet I'm working on it.

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Speaker 1: She's working on her becoming my real life friend.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, everyone needs Grace in their life. Grace is an actor,

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Speaker 3: like a real one, and a very good one at that.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: She was in Colin from Accounts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that showy, it's such a good show.

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Speaker 3: She's also a writer and a producer. She's also a

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Speaker 3: podcast host and an audio producer, a celebrant, she actually

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Speaker 3: married me and Charlie.

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Speaker 1: She's a real jack of all trades. I call myself

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Speaker 1: a jack of all trades, master of none. She's a

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Speaker 1: jack of all trades, master of everything, master.

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Speaker 3: Of everything, and she's also mastering being a brand new

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Speaker 3: first time mum to baby Nora. So Grace just has

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Speaker 3: something her. She's an old soul with there's quiet, calm

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Speaker 3: and coolness about her. I was immediately drawn to her

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Speaker 3: when we first met. She's sunshine in human form, and

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Speaker 3: I was so happy to learn that she was pregnant,

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Speaker 3: but her pregnancy wasn't all smooth sailing. More on that later.

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Speaker 3: And today we're speaking to her at six weeks postpartum.

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Speaker 3: She's in that blissful baby bubble meets what the actual

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Speaker 3: fuck trenches and I just know that she's going to

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Speaker 3: share so beautifully about her time so far as a

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Speaker 3: new mum. Welcome Grace six weeks in. How are you, Grace.

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Speaker 2: The answer to that question changes hour by hour, which yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you all know. I kind of do it

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Speaker 2: as like is it a good day or is it

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Speaker 2: a bad day, even though again the answer changes within that,

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Speaker 2: but today's a good day. You know, we went out

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Speaker 2: of the house. Her weight has gone up, which were

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Speaker 2: stoked about. Yes, I think I'm doing like a hybrid

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Speaker 2: version of my life, which is like a little bit

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Speaker 2: of work and then like with a child strap to me.

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Speaker 2: So that feels nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny, isn't it, How just like little pieces

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Speaker 3: of you that you get to still tap into, how

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Speaker 3: much they can make a difference, even though like.

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Speaker 1: The thought of quote unquote work.

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Speaker 3: With a new baby seems overwhelming, but just like little

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Speaker 3: tappens here and there, I think really just remind you like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm still me, even though I'm completely for someone else

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Speaker 3: at the moment, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: And I always knew that's what I was going to need,

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Speaker 2: and I just wasn't sure when I would be able

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Speaker 2: to even start experimenting without thirty minutes or that one hour.

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Speaker 2: And I think there was probably like four and a

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Speaker 2: half weeks and went ooh, I've got like half an hour.

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Speaker 2: Do I just like quickly try and write something?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Whatever. But I've been able to incorporate inside the house

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Speaker 2: grace activities, but haven't found time to like go back

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Speaker 2: to the gym or any I mean, I'm not six weeks,

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Speaker 2: so I would love to be able to go. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm a spin lady as well, key, so I have

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Speaker 2: to find time to do that.

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Speaker 3: Oh Grace. I did my first spin the other day

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Speaker 3: and it was glorious. I only have done it once,

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Speaker 3: but I cried after because it was just so like,

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Speaker 3: I haven't been able to do that for like a year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you were sick as well, like really sick.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So actually, on that note, you had a pretty

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Speaker 3: shit pregnancy.

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Speaker 2: I did. I did, like I was feeling nauseous when

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Speaker 2: I took the test like a little bit, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, I think with the pregnancy nausea,

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Speaker 2: you you sort of had this Hollywood idea of it

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Speaker 2: of like this, Oh cute, I vomited in a bin

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to take a test, and you don't realize, like,

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Speaker 2: what nausea all day? They can't be fixed by like

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Speaker 2: having another beer at four pm. What that actually feels

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Speaker 2: like all day every day? So I found out it

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Speaker 2: like five weeks obviously, as you do. And then the

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Speaker 2: nausea like ramped up week six, and then I started

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Speaker 2: vomiting from week seven and I was vomiting every day

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Speaker 2: from week seven to week twenty four, and then it

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Speaker 2: went to like three times a week, and I vomited

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Speaker 2: like the day I gave birth as well, So it

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Speaker 2: like went through the whole pregnancy. But the nausea, even

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Speaker 2: though the vomiting got less than nausea, twenty four of

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Speaker 2: nausea and never went away ever the whole time.

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Speaker 3: Oh it's just awful.

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Speaker 1: It's still sick for it actually like makes me a

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Speaker 1: little bit teary because it just is so debilitating. You've

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Speaker 1: just brought so much back I did not have it

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Speaker 1: for the entirety of my pregnancy. You had about twelve

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Speaker 1: weeks without the nausea, and people go, oh, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you get this beautiful baby at the end. It's true,

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Speaker 1: but it's a very long time to be sick all day,

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Speaker 1: every day. And when you're usually sick, like say you're

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Speaker 1: hungover or you've got a stomach bug, you vomit and

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Speaker 1: then you feel a little bit of relief, and you

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Speaker 1: also know that there's an end in sight. But there's

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Speaker 1: no end in sight.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: And I tried everything, and I think all of the

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Speaker 2: suggestions out there, I tried like every iteration of ginger.

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Speaker 2: I've tried to the point where I like, I just

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Speaker 2: can't have ginger at all. I tried the medications. I

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Speaker 2: tried different meals, like a different I tried like setting

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Speaker 2: an alarm in the middle of the night, because my

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Speaker 2: biggest trigger was in the morning. If I'd essentially fasted

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Speaker 2: for too long, just sleeping, just living my life like

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Speaker 2: a person, I would wake up and always vomit before breakfast.

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Speaker 2: And I went to the GP because the medication wasn't

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Speaker 2: really doing much. And the next level up of the

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Speaker 2: medication was the I think it's called adanzitron. It's like

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Speaker 2: the chemotherapy agent that helps you with nausea. And they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't give it to me because it's what they give

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Speaker 2: to people with hypermemesis. But because I didn't classify as hyperemesis,

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Speaker 2: because I could hold down water and I wasn't vomiting

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Speaker 2: more than three times in a day, I wasn't eligible

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Speaker 2: for the medication. And I was like, okay, yeah, that

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Speaker 2: makes sense. And then I did a podcast with Yanna Pittman,

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Speaker 2: Hello Bump, and I told her, and she's an obstectrix

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Speaker 2: register and she was horrified they didn't give it to me.

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Speaker 2: When you hear people go oh, you should have been

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Speaker 2: given that, or hey, that was actually really bad morning

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Speaker 2: sickness that you had. That's not normal. That's the stuff

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Speaker 2: that made me really emotional because you're battling that all

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Speaker 2: day every day, you don't feel like the person that

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Speaker 2: you are, and then someone like goes, oh, that's not pleasant,

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Speaker 2: and you go, no, it wasn't, thank you, because I

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Speaker 2: think with so many pregnancy symptoms, as you said, there

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Speaker 2: is this like yes, but it's you know, for the baby,

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Speaker 2: it's for the good of the baby. They're constantly trying

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Speaker 2: to push this silver lining to you, and when you're

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Speaker 2: the one dealing with it and living with it, it just

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Speaker 2: feels like so lonely.

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Speaker 3: I know that obviously this is, you know, the first pregnancy,

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Speaker 3: but I know that with Suki, my pregnancy was really

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Speaker 3: horrible and it definitely had an impact on I guess

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Speaker 3: my connection with her to some degree. It's difficult and

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Speaker 3: it might be hard for you to answer because you

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Speaker 3: don't have a benchmark, but I was constantly comparing to

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Speaker 3: Rue but I felt almost like this thing was happening

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Speaker 3: to me, but I wasn't really conscious of it. In

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Speaker 3: a lot of ways, I was because my body was

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Speaker 3: kind of failing me, I felt in a way, but

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Speaker 3: it was a weird kind of thing of not being

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Speaker 3: able to fully connect to the process that was happening.

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Speaker 3: Did you have anything like that with your pregnant.

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Speaker 2: I more found myself apologizing to my partner because I

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Speaker 2: felt like I'd taken away any joy from these kind

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Speaker 2: of few months of you know, you go, oh, we're

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Speaker 2: going to go to Wiskan and you do still have

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Speaker 2: those moments for sure, but then you feel like a

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Speaker 2: dark cloud of negativity. Yeah, misery and they're kind of

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Speaker 2: your care Like I couldn't go into my kitchen without vomiting,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't open the fridge. So it's those things where

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Speaker 2: you feel like it's meant to be exciting, like let's

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Speaker 2: go take bump pictures or yeah, I don't know, and

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Speaker 2: like that's one of the reasons, like we found out

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Speaker 2: the sex. I was probably always going to find out

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Speaker 2: the sex early because I wanted to start endowing what

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Speaker 2: was inside me with something like even just calling her

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Speaker 2: like we called her hey, lady, and we still call

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Speaker 2: her lady. Yeah, just little things like that that did

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Speaker 2: help me try and connect to it a little bit,

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Speaker 2: because Yeah, I think I said to Kelly one time

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Speaker 2: at the office, I was like, I've hated every second

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Speaker 2: of this.

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Speaker 1: We don't like to admit things like that because then

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Speaker 1: we've got people that like all of our love to them,

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Speaker 1: but they've struggled so much even fall pregnant or they've

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Speaker 1: had these things, so it's almost we feel like we

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Speaker 1: can't say that. But two things can always be true

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Speaker 1: at the same time, and it can be so miserable

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Speaker 1: and isolating and lonely. And I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: felt this, but I still feel a little bit of resentment.

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Speaker 1: Not resentment, but like I see people that really thrive

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Speaker 1: in their pregnancy, and I just think, oh, must be

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Speaker 1: fucking nice. Like I was miserable and I didn't feel

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Speaker 1: like myself and it's something that unfortunately, it doesn't come

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Speaker 1: really naturally and beautifully to everyone. No.

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Speaker 2: I kept being like, when am I going to look hot?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: When am I going to glow? When's this glowing version

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Speaker 2: of pregnant grace going to happen? Where you know my

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Speaker 2: hair is?

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Speaker 1: I thought that you looked really beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Ah, thank you, thank you. I think I had a

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Speaker 2: neat little bump.

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Speaker 1: My hair just always looks so healthy. O, your skin's

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Speaker 1: glowing to me.

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Speaker 2: No, I got perry a dermatitis, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: is that a pregnancy thing? It turns out like everything

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Speaker 2: is a pregnancy thing. I lost parts of my eyebrow,

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Speaker 2: Like I just got like a bald patch in there.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh what is that? That's pomones?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how was your birth after all?

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Speaker 3: That?

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Speaker 1: Was it good? Like we like, oh sweet relief.

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Speaker 2: Look, I had birth preferences, not plans preferences, and they

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Speaker 2: were yeah, it's like I don't want to be induced,

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Speaker 2: I don't want an epidural, and I don't want to

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Speaker 2: Caesar at all. And those were all the three things

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Speaker 2: that I got. So I ended up having to be

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Speaker 2: induced because they did a CTG scan on me, a

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Speaker 2: CTG monitoring on me one day when I because I

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Speaker 2: just felt like movements were off, but it was just

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Speaker 2: did a routine appointment. They said, well, why don't we

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Speaker 2: just took you up. When they did the scan, they

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Speaker 2: realized she hadn't grown since her thirty six weeks scan.

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Speaker 2: I was forty and three like at this point, and

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Speaker 2: they realized she hadn't grown in four weeks, and they said,

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Speaker 2: I think it's time to just get this child out.

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Speaker 2: Come back tomorrow. And so I came in, got to

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Speaker 2: be induced. I got with the tape, the gel thing,

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Speaker 2: and then I'd done two stretching sweeps as well, because

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to have a vaginal birth,

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what's going to happen. I'd done the pelvic

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Speaker 2: floor physio, I'd done peroneal message, I'd done the birth

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Speaker 2: classes like that's what was going to happen, and then

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Speaker 2: got induced, stayed in the hospital like went up to

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Speaker 2: like two centimeters. Then at like two am, they said, oh,

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Speaker 2: we could put the balloon catheter in you. I said,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't sound pleasant, or we can break your waters

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Speaker 2: in about four hours. When the doctor rounds next, I

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Speaker 2: was like, let's pick that option. Yeah, so then.

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Speaker 1: I'd rather a knitting needle than a balloon please. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it didn't sound very comfortable. And at this point,

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Speaker 2: like because the day before with the she hasn't grown.

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Speaker 2: It was just a lot of anxiety. They were trying

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Speaker 2: to get me to stay that night and induced that night,

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Speaker 2: and then my midwife had privately said to me, it's

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Speaker 2: just a really terrible idea to start an induction at nighttime,

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Speaker 2: Like I highly recommend you come back in the morning.

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Speaker 2: So like i'd come back, hadn't progressed. Then they broke

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Speaker 2: my waters at like six am. My partner came back

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Speaker 2: two hours, like oh, an hour later, they put me

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Speaker 2: on the drip. The drip just intensified everything one thousand

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Speaker 2: billion percent. And I'd had a planeting forought overnight. I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, I'll just try that paneting fought again.

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Speaker 2: That was great, and then that obviously did nothing. Morphine

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Speaker 2: was great. I had the best time, you know, i'd

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Speaker 2: have a contraction, which you still feel, but then I

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Speaker 2: would like pass out for the ninety seconds in between,

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Speaker 2: and then that kind of wore off, and then I

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Speaker 2: tried the gas, which the gas does nothing. I don't

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Speaker 2: know why that's recommended. And then I said, at one point, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to get better, is it. And they're like, no,

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Speaker 2: it's going to get worse. So I said, okay, let's

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Speaker 2: just do the epidural.

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Speaker 1: Get it into me.

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Speaker 2: Get it into me. And I don't know why I

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Speaker 2: was resisting it, because that is like God's gift to women.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It was great. It was great

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Speaker 2: right up until the exact moment that it wasn't and

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Speaker 2: it stopped working and then I could feel everything again,

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Speaker 2: and then that's kind of when the wheels fell off

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Speaker 2: mentally for me. It was about seven pm on the Thursday.

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Speaker 2: That routine appointment that had started everything was the tuesday.

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Speaker 2: I'd been induced on the Wednesday morning, so at this

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Speaker 2: point it's about thirty hours. They checked me up with

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Speaker 2: four centimeters dilated. I was like, oh my god. And

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Speaker 2: then they said, let's check again in two hours, and

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Speaker 2: they checked again and I was only five centimeters. They'd

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Speaker 2: done that, her heart rate and started going up and down,

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Speaker 2: and they did the little prick test to her head

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Speaker 2: to make sure like her sugars were okay, and she

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Speaker 2: was fine, so they said we can keep going. And

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Speaker 2: then I said, like, how long have I got left?

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Speaker 2: Do you think? And they were like soon, And then

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Speaker 2: my husband stepped in and said, you have to tell

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Speaker 2: Grace what soon means. Could I can tell she thinks

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Speaker 2: that means two hours? And they said, no, it's probably

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Speaker 2: like another ten hours. And my midwife's that I'd been

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Speaker 2: with the whole you know, pregnancy. They were about to

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Speaker 2: go off shift and another team was going to come in,

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Speaker 2: and at that point when you're just like, mentally everything

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Speaker 2: is terrible, It's it's so hard to talk about it

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Speaker 2: at this point because you know, now here mentally fine,

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Speaker 2: physically fine, you go. I should have just kept going,

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Speaker 2: but everything just felt really intense, and I was just

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Speaker 2: really really overwhelmed by the fact that I was feeling

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Speaker 2: contractions again even though I had the epidural.

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Speaker 1: And you thought, I cannot go through another ten hours

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Speaker 1: and also shift changes, of course they have to happen,

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Speaker 1: like it's just awful having to swap your like you

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Speaker 1: get really attached to someone, and then there's always the

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Speaker 1: changeover period and no one checks in on you during

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Speaker 1: the changeover period and everything is delayed. Of course it

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Speaker 1: has to happen, but it is one of the most

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Speaker 1: annoying things that happens in a hospital. I think that's stupid,

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Speaker 1: bloody changeover.

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Speaker 2: And I just didn't want an energy change in my room.

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Speaker 2: I know that sounds silly, but I was like, I

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Speaker 2: just don't want more people coming in. I don't want

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Speaker 2: like the handover to happen in front of me. You know,

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Speaker 2: your brain goes to weird places when you're in that space.

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Speaker 2: They kept leaving us for ten minutes to like have

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Speaker 2: chats of like what we wanted to do, and I said, well,

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Speaker 2: on that last check, I wished I hadn't progressed at all,

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Speaker 2: so the decision was easier, and Josh was like, I

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Speaker 2: think you want to see section. I was like, yes,

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Speaker 2: I think I do, but then everyone had to get

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Speaker 2: me to say it, and it was really hard to

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Speaker 2: say I want to see section because I just didn't

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Speaker 2: want that. I'm quite terrified of needles, terrified of I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to be in an o awake, Are we

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Speaker 2: the say person, yes, yes. But one of the beautiful

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Speaker 2: things that happened is when the doctor came in he

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Speaker 2: was going to do the sea section. She walked in

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Speaker 2: and she was the person who had broken my waters

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Speaker 2: on her shift beforehand, so she had lived a life

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Speaker 2: in between. You know, they've got to do like some

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Speaker 2: legal things, like they've got to say like, we don't

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Speaker 2: medically have to do this. She's fine, You're fine. And

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Speaker 2: then my midwife stepped in and said, oh, look she

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Speaker 2: has to say this. She goes, oh, yeah, I have to.

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Speaker 2: But you know, if this with me, I would have

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Speaker 2: had a sea section hours ago. Yeah. So I felt

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Speaker 2: a lot better because there's a part of you that

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Speaker 2: like martyr woman thing that's like, am I giving up?

341
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Speaker 2: Did I just like throw the towel in? Yeah, But

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Speaker 2: after that amount of hours and it was just all

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Speaker 2: a bit much. So at ten pm I got a

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Speaker 2: sea section on that Thursday night.

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Speaker 3: Just on that note when you said like about being

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Speaker 3: a martyr and feeling like, you know, you should be

347
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Speaker 3: doing it this way. On the flip side of that,

348
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Speaker 3: did you also feel like because I had this where

349
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Speaker 3: I felt like I'm so selfish and trying for a

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Speaker 3: bad birth. I just need to meet my baby, Like,

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Speaker 3: what if something were to go wrong now, Like I

352
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Speaker 3: had both of those things going on at the same time,

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Speaker 3: which was a really hard kind of mind space to

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Speaker 3: be in.

355
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Speaker 2: You're just punishing yourself. Oh yeah, from both sides. Yeah,

356
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Speaker 2: I had that. When they keep saying just monitor for

357
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Speaker 2: fetal movements, monitor for fetal movements. So that was my

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Speaker 2: least favorite thing. It just terrified me because they said, well,

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Speaker 2: has the pattern changed. I'm like, I don't think there

360
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Speaker 2: is a pattern. I've tried so hard to figure out

361
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Speaker 2: the pattern, but I just don't know it exists.

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Speaker 3: So talk to me about meeting Nora. I know obviously

363
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Speaker 3: it wasn't what you'd planned, but I don't know. My

364
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Speaker 3: c sections have been kind of beautiful.

365
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Speaker 2: I felt like I was quite drugged up by the

366
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Speaker 2: time I got in there. It was all like very

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Speaker 2: again because I'm like quite a medically anxious person and

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Speaker 2: I like to know what's going on, but then not

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Speaker 2: too much what's going on. So the first like fifteen

370
00:17:03,029 --> 00:17:05,389
Speaker 2: minutes were great, Like I had my midwife and the

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Speaker 2: student midwife who i'd been with the whole you know,

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Speaker 2: a few months, and then Josh was obviously there, and

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Speaker 2: then they were just talking to us and they said,

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Speaker 2: are you ready to meet your daughter? And before they

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Speaker 2: even finished that sentence, like her screams like filled the room.

376
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Speaker 2: And it's like, oh, makes me feel emotional because I

377
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Speaker 2: wasn't expecting it, and she wasn't even out of my womb,

378
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Speaker 2: like fully out of the womb. And was like, I'm

379
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Speaker 2: here because I've seen the photos later on, like her

380
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:35,149
Speaker 2: legs were still in there, and she was just screaming,

381
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Speaker 2: how very dare you?

382
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Speaker 1: I was comfortable, yeah.

383
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Speaker 2: And so Josh and I just like it kind of

384
00:17:40,629 --> 00:17:42,669
Speaker 2: took us by surprise and we were like, oh my god,

385
00:17:42,749 --> 00:17:44,789
Speaker 2: and we both looked at each other and like obviously

386
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:49,149
Speaker 2: started crying. And then when they bought her around and

387
00:17:49,149 --> 00:17:51,589
Speaker 2: put her on my chest, like she stopped crying like immediately,

388
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Speaker 2: and my breast just started lactating, like, oh, I actually

389
00:17:56,429 --> 00:17:59,389
Speaker 2: also lactated when they did the epidural, which is so weird.

390
00:17:59,789 --> 00:18:03,269
Speaker 1: They were like, your bodies are incredible, Yeah.

391
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Speaker 2: So weird. It's all very beautiful and wonderful. But then

392
00:18:06,269 --> 00:18:08,789
Speaker 2: she goes off for her checks, and then Josh had

393
00:18:08,869 --> 00:18:10,429
Speaker 2: went off with her as well, and then you sort

394
00:18:10,429 --> 00:18:13,629
Speaker 2: of left alone and the adrenaline of the moment is gone.

395
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Speaker 2: Did you have the shakes where you're yeah, Oh yeah

396
00:18:16,629 --> 00:18:18,269
Speaker 2: I did. And then I started to panic because I

397
00:18:18,309 --> 00:18:20,709
Speaker 2: didn't know what that was. And everyone said you're fine,

398
00:18:20,709 --> 00:18:23,749
Speaker 2: and I was like, cool, mindfulness, mindfulness, trying to be mindful,

399
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Speaker 2: and you can feel yourself.

400
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Speaker 1: Someone's inside me right now, Yeah.

401
00:18:26,869 --> 00:18:28,829
Speaker 2: Someone's inside me. And then they came over and they

402
00:18:28,829 --> 00:18:31,669
Speaker 2: were like, your blood pressure's rising, and I was petrified

403
00:18:31,709 --> 00:18:34,629
Speaker 2: of pre clamsier. So I was like, oh my god,

404
00:18:34,709 --> 00:18:36,589
Speaker 2: I'm going to hear the words hemorrhage and they're going

405
00:18:36,629 --> 00:18:39,029
Speaker 2: to like I'm just going to be put under for

406
00:18:39,109 --> 00:18:42,069
Speaker 2: some horrific surgery. So I kept saying to the people.

407
00:18:42,109 --> 00:18:44,149
Speaker 2: I was like, am I okay, is my blood pressure? Okay?

408
00:18:44,189 --> 00:18:46,069
Speaker 2: How many layers have they sewn up? Like? I just

409
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Speaker 2: kept going on this loop and then they ended up

410
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Speaker 2: giving me medication for the to bring the blood pressure down.

411
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Speaker 2: But because of that, because I'd had a spike, and

412
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Speaker 2: then I had to stay in hospital for five days

413
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Speaker 2: just to monitor that it wasn't going to develop into

414
00:18:58,269 --> 00:19:01,429
Speaker 2: postpartum pre clamsier, and I was on four hourly. I

415
00:19:01,469 --> 00:19:02,989
Speaker 2: don't know if this is normal. I was in four

416
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:07,389
Speaker 2: hourly vitals checks for blood pressure because I was quite anxious.

417
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Speaker 2: The automatic ones, the electronic odpressure monitors, would make me

418
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:14,389
Speaker 2: go way higher than the manual ones. So every time

419
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Speaker 2: they'd walk in, I said, please don't use the automatic one.

420
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Speaker 2: They're like, you'll be fine, and then it was like,

421
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Speaker 2: you know, one sixty over something.

422
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Speaker 3: Anyway, I was the same grace, like those ones are

423
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Speaker 3: so annoying, Like I'm just like through the manual one.

424
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Speaker 3: It takes two seconds.

425
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Speaker 2: We can Yeah, who was your obstrition? Her name was

426
00:19:29,509 --> 00:19:32,229
Speaker 2: doctor Christine. Because I was through the midwife program, I

427
00:19:32,309 --> 00:19:34,149
Speaker 2: just I did MGP. So I was just with my

428
00:19:34,189 --> 00:19:36,669
Speaker 2: midwives until that is the very end.

429
00:19:36,829 --> 00:19:38,149
Speaker 3: Good that you got into MGP.

430
00:19:38,829 --> 00:19:41,629
Speaker 2: Yeah, I called constantly to be like, am I on

431
00:19:41,629 --> 00:19:43,189
Speaker 2: the list? Am I on the list? And I found

432
00:19:43,189 --> 00:19:47,789
Speaker 2: out it sixteen weeks that I got into mgps's that's awesome.

433
00:19:48,149 --> 00:19:50,109
Speaker 3: That's a good tip for anyone at home thinking that

434
00:19:50,149 --> 00:19:55,149
Speaker 3: they might have missed the boat. Just to be persistent. Okay,

435
00:19:55,189 --> 00:19:57,789
Speaker 3: so I want to because I could see that you

436
00:19:58,549 --> 00:20:01,429
Speaker 3: obviously it's emotional talking about a birth, especially six weeks in,

437
00:20:01,589 --> 00:20:06,469
Speaker 3: but I wanted to touch on baby blues and have

438
00:20:06,589 --> 00:20:09,589
Speaker 3: you been able to rationalize and work through those emotions

439
00:20:09,629 --> 00:20:13,349
Speaker 3: of your birth not going what you thought it might go,

440
00:20:13,509 --> 00:20:16,989
Speaker 3: but still being, you know, a beautiful birth for baby Nora.

441
00:20:17,789 --> 00:20:19,549
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't feel at all like I had a

442
00:20:19,549 --> 00:20:22,709
Speaker 2: traumatic birth at all. I think I'm I just got

443
00:20:22,749 --> 00:20:25,749
Speaker 2: a bit hard on myself for sure. That could I

444
00:20:25,789 --> 00:20:28,509
Speaker 2: have done longer or it's just so hard to talk

445
00:20:28,509 --> 00:20:30,669
Speaker 2: about the headspace when you're not in it. In terms

446
00:20:30,709 --> 00:20:33,629
Speaker 2: of baby blues. Everyone warned me about day four or five,

447
00:20:33,749 --> 00:20:36,509
Speaker 2: but I was fine at day four and five. It

448
00:20:36,589 --> 00:20:38,989
Speaker 2: was when I got home, and I'd say like the

449
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:41,149
Speaker 2: first week and a half to first two weeks at home.

450
00:20:41,549 --> 00:20:43,429
Speaker 2: And that's why I reached out to u Key is

451
00:20:43,469 --> 00:20:45,829
Speaker 2: because I saw the post that I believe you wrote

452
00:20:45,869 --> 00:20:48,189
Speaker 2: Kelly about what it's like at three am as a

453
00:20:48,229 --> 00:20:52,349
Speaker 2: new parent. And I've never felt like everything about that

454
00:20:52,389 --> 00:20:54,829
Speaker 2: post was like how I was feeling, and I didn't

455
00:20:54,869 --> 00:20:58,389
Speaker 2: know how to articulate it. This feeling of you feel

456
00:20:58,429 --> 00:21:01,469
Speaker 2: completely different. You feel you're not sure if you're ever

457
00:21:01,509 --> 00:21:03,029
Speaker 2: going to go back to the person you were before,

458
00:21:03,069 --> 00:21:04,909
Speaker 2: and like, how can you because you have this thing.

459
00:21:05,389 --> 00:21:08,669
Speaker 1: You feel unhinged every single way.

460
00:21:09,189 --> 00:21:12,069
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, everything is a level fifteen out of ten

461
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:15,229
Speaker 2: of emotion. You're trying to figure out breastfeeding, which is

462
00:21:16,109 --> 00:21:18,949
Speaker 2: a near death experience in itself. Every single time, like

463
00:21:18,989 --> 00:21:21,509
Speaker 2: I was having, my nipples were bleeding, they got paper

464
00:21:21,509 --> 00:21:25,989
Speaker 2: cut tears over them. Also, this thing called a nipple vasospasm.

465
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:27,069
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard of them.

466
00:21:27,309 --> 00:21:29,949
Speaker 1: My girlfriend had that and she said that it was

467
00:21:29,989 --> 00:21:34,989
Speaker 1: more painful than contractions, like it, can you talk me

468
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:35,269
Speaker 1: through this?

469
00:21:35,309 --> 00:21:36,069
Speaker 3: I haven't heard of it.

470
00:21:36,309 --> 00:21:39,949
Speaker 2: So it's basically my boobs were like throbbing and my

471
00:21:40,029 --> 00:21:42,509
Speaker 2: nipples were throbbing, and I thought, maybe this is normal.

472
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:45,789
Speaker 2: But once you leave MGP care and you've got two

473
00:21:45,789 --> 00:21:49,029
Speaker 2: weeks with them postnatal, and then you can't use your

474
00:21:49,069 --> 00:21:51,589
Speaker 2: little twenty four to seven phone call anymore. So I

475
00:21:51,629 --> 00:21:53,709
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, my nipples are in pain.

476
00:21:53,789 --> 00:21:55,989
Speaker 2: I'm bleeding. It looks like she's actually going to rip

477
00:21:56,029 --> 00:21:59,109
Speaker 2: off my nipples. And I called a private lactation consultant

478
00:21:59,149 --> 00:22:01,109
Speaker 2: and midwife to come to the house because I was like,

479
00:22:01,149 --> 00:22:03,789
Speaker 2: I can't do this. And she came and I said, like,

480
00:22:03,869 --> 00:22:07,029
Speaker 2: my nipples are like really sore and she goes, oh,

481
00:22:07,069 --> 00:22:08,869
Speaker 2: do they turn white on the tips? And I said,

482
00:22:08,869 --> 00:22:11,069
Speaker 2: I've no idea, but I'll look next it happens, and

483
00:22:11,109 --> 00:22:13,069
Speaker 2: I did look, and so they do turn white. So

484
00:22:13,149 --> 00:22:15,829
Speaker 2: essentially a nipple face of spasm is you're losing circulation

485
00:22:15,989 --> 00:22:18,829
Speaker 2: to your nipples and they go white and throb and

486
00:22:18,869 --> 00:22:22,349
Speaker 2: then as the blood comes back in, it like throbs again.

487
00:22:22,429 --> 00:22:25,469
Speaker 2: So people with the condition that have like poor circulation

488
00:22:25,549 --> 00:22:27,429
Speaker 2: in their hands and feet, it can happen to them.

489
00:22:27,549 --> 00:22:29,709
Speaker 2: I've never had that condition, but this, so this was

490
00:22:29,789 --> 00:22:33,149
Speaker 2: just a big surprise, horrific.

491
00:22:32,749 --> 00:22:34,749
Speaker 3: Like I've had two babies and I've never heard of that.

492
00:22:34,989 --> 00:22:36,989
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's all these like woo woo ways to

493
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:39,109
Speaker 2: treat it, you know, there's like all these vitamins or

494
00:22:39,189 --> 00:22:41,269
Speaker 2: just make sure that you've got a hate pack you're

495
00:22:41,309 --> 00:22:43,829
Speaker 2: warm at all times. But then people say, like with

496
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:46,029
Speaker 2: the cuts, then to keep it open and put breast

497
00:22:46,029 --> 00:22:47,589
Speaker 2: milk on it. I was like, so am I am

498
00:22:47,629 --> 00:22:49,189
Speaker 2: I covering up? Or am I not covering up? And

499
00:22:49,229 --> 00:22:50,789
Speaker 2: then I went on too like a little forum and

500
00:22:50,829 --> 00:22:52,869
Speaker 2: asked if anyone else had had it, and they said, oh,

501
00:22:52,989 --> 00:22:55,029
Speaker 2: you can get medication for that. It's like a blood

502
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:58,629
Speaker 2: pressure medication that helps with the blood vessels constricting. I

503
00:22:58,669 --> 00:23:03,029
Speaker 2: was like, why wasn't that mentioned first all these like anyway,

504
00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:05,229
Speaker 2: so that got sorted a week ago.

505
00:23:05,629 --> 00:23:08,469
Speaker 3: I want woman to just be in pain. They're just

506
00:23:08,589 --> 00:23:12,029
Speaker 3: obsessed with it. It's just stopping so obsessed with us

507
00:23:12,029 --> 00:23:13,069
Speaker 3: being in pain.

508
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:15,029
Speaker 2: Or you should just be able to handle it.

509
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:18,229
Speaker 3: It's like, no, I've handled enough through my presancy that

510
00:23:18,229 --> 00:23:21,309
Speaker 3: I've done enough, all right, So should we start to

511
00:23:21,389 --> 00:23:24,749
Speaker 3: talk about the feeding journey? So no, it's been hard,

512
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:27,669
Speaker 3: and I don't want to upset you, but I want

513
00:23:27,709 --> 00:23:29,069
Speaker 3: to talk to you because I want to hype you

514
00:23:29,189 --> 00:23:30,789
Speaker 3: up as well, because I feel like you are doing

515
00:23:30,829 --> 00:23:34,149
Speaker 3: an amazing job. Also, off the back of that Stella

516
00:23:34,309 --> 00:23:37,069
Speaker 3: news today of Nora putting on three hundred grams and.

517
00:23:37,349 --> 00:23:40,189
Speaker 2: Three hundred grams, three hundred grams. If this is the

518
00:23:40,229 --> 00:23:43,389
Speaker 2: weird like identity shift, isn't it. You hear people talking

519
00:23:43,429 --> 00:23:46,029
Speaker 2: about parent things that like my baby ganda this much,

520
00:23:46,069 --> 00:23:47,509
Speaker 2: and then suddenly you're that bitch.

521
00:23:50,109 --> 00:23:53,149
Speaker 1: You're like bore you have kids, You're like who cares?

522
00:23:53,229 --> 00:23:55,309
Speaker 2: That's sacking, and like, oh.

523
00:23:55,029 --> 00:23:56,749
Speaker 1: Why would I even care about that? But then you

524
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:59,429
Speaker 1: have and you're like no, no, it's very important.

525
00:23:59,749 --> 00:24:02,349
Speaker 2: It's very important, and everyone also makes you feel like

526
00:24:02,429 --> 00:24:04,389
Speaker 2: it's super important. Well, it is, obviously you want your

527
00:24:04,429 --> 00:24:07,189
Speaker 2: child to be fine. So I was making a lot

528
00:24:07,189 --> 00:24:09,749
Speaker 2: like I was able to get colossterum before Nora Kane,

529
00:24:10,229 --> 00:24:13,229
Speaker 2: which my midwife milked for me, Like I could sometimes get.

530
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:16,909
Speaker 3: It, but really hard to do. It's so hard when

531
00:24:16,949 --> 00:24:19,069
Speaker 3: they do it, it's so much easier, and you're just like,

532
00:24:19,149 --> 00:24:19,869
Speaker 3: this is so.

533
00:24:20,069 --> 00:24:23,869
Speaker 1: Weird, Like I could do it now because I've breastfed

534
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:25,949
Speaker 1: and done that, but at the time, I was like

535
00:24:26,309 --> 00:24:28,149
Speaker 1: I never experienced that, And I.

536
00:24:28,069 --> 00:24:30,389
Speaker 3: Was like, yeah, I get what you mean, Like after

537
00:24:30,429 --> 00:24:33,589
Speaker 3: you've breastfed, you have a bit more of like an understanding.

538
00:24:33,829 --> 00:24:36,029
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think for me, in my brain, I

539
00:24:36,069 --> 00:24:38,909
Speaker 2: thought everything was going to come easy because that that's

540
00:24:38,909 --> 00:24:40,749
Speaker 2: what your body is made to do. You know. It's

541
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:44,109
Speaker 2: the same with the vaginal birth psychopath mentality that I

542
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:45,789
Speaker 2: had of like, well, you know, we were made to

543
00:24:45,789 --> 00:24:48,229
Speaker 2: do this, so that's what we should do. And it's like, well, no,

544
00:24:48,429 --> 00:24:52,989
Speaker 2: we've we've made so many medical advances to help women

545
00:24:53,149 --> 00:24:55,869
Speaker 2: and we should just lean into that. In the hospital,

546
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:59,269
Speaker 2: I was able to she would feed, but I now

547
00:24:59,349 --> 00:25:01,629
Speaker 2: like I know what actual sucking and swallowing is. I

548
00:25:01,629 --> 00:25:03,869
Speaker 2: don't know how much she was actually getting. And then

549
00:25:04,109 --> 00:25:07,229
Speaker 2: a midwife would help me pump in the evenings. I

550
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:10,389
Speaker 2: had a really wonderful night midwife, and she would pump

551
00:25:10,469 --> 00:25:12,389
Speaker 2: my breast for me and put it in a little

552
00:25:12,389 --> 00:25:15,709
Speaker 2: syringe to give to her. And then we weighed her

553
00:25:15,789 --> 00:25:18,149
Speaker 2: and she'd gone from two point eight nine to two

554
00:25:18,229 --> 00:25:21,829
Speaker 2: point five something, which she'd lost like she'd lost weight,

555
00:25:21,869 --> 00:25:23,869
Speaker 2: but she'd also lost weight in the womb, and then

556
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:27,069
Speaker 2: she'd lost weight right like a lot. So they said

557
00:25:27,429 --> 00:25:29,229
Speaker 2: she was really gentle with me, and I will always

558
00:25:29,269 --> 00:25:31,749
Speaker 2: appreciate this. She was trying to get me to give

559
00:25:31,829 --> 00:25:34,189
Speaker 2: her a bottle of formula, but she didn't know if

560
00:25:34,229 --> 00:25:37,109
Speaker 2: I was a strictly breast milk only person, which I'm

561
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:40,909
Speaker 2: I'm a FEDI is best person, and so she was like,

562
00:25:40,949 --> 00:25:42,749
Speaker 2: I really think she's hungry, and I think that you

563
00:25:42,749 --> 00:25:44,429
Speaker 2: should just do a bottle of formula.

564
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:46,549
Speaker 1: Yowed out to this queen.

565
00:25:47,149 --> 00:25:50,029
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was amazing. She was really really amazing. And

566
00:25:50,029 --> 00:25:52,469
Speaker 2: then we got home and I was yeah, feeding and

567
00:25:52,509 --> 00:25:54,589
Speaker 2: then I was getting these tears, which I was then

568
00:25:54,669 --> 00:25:56,149
Speaker 2: just you know, you're putting her on and she's just

569
00:25:56,229 --> 00:25:58,669
Speaker 2: damaging them more. And you know, when you were to

570
00:25:58,669 --> 00:26:01,629
Speaker 2: do something eight times a day, it's and it's painful,

571
00:26:01,669 --> 00:26:02,469
Speaker 2: it's so.

572
00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:05,869
Speaker 1: Depressed, and it takes so long when they're so small, Like, yes,

573
00:26:06,469 --> 00:26:09,229
Speaker 1: why do you take so long to eat? You don't

574
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:10,469
Speaker 1: have anything else to do?

575
00:26:10,949 --> 00:26:15,389
Speaker 2: That's a little faster, Yes, reframing it around. She's also

576
00:26:15,509 --> 00:26:18,269
Speaker 2: learning the new Skills slate because I felt like I

577
00:26:18,349 --> 00:26:20,069
Speaker 2: was failing. I was like, what's wrong with my boobs?

578
00:26:20,069 --> 00:26:21,909
Speaker 2: What's wrong with my nipps? Why can't I do this?

579
00:26:21,949 --> 00:26:24,709
Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense, but it's also just annoying, like

580
00:26:24,829 --> 00:26:28,069
Speaker 1: why do they come out useless where other species come

581
00:26:28,109 --> 00:26:30,189
Speaker 1: out and trot off? You don't even know how to

582
00:26:30,189 --> 00:26:31,029
Speaker 1: burp yourself.

583
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:33,149
Speaker 2: No, you need to rub your back. We need to

584
00:26:33,149 --> 00:26:34,869
Speaker 2: go up and down and up and down. And then

585
00:26:34,869 --> 00:26:36,429
Speaker 2: when they do get better at feeding, you've got to

586
00:26:36,429 --> 00:26:38,349
Speaker 2: spend like more time burping than like, well, this hasn't

587
00:26:38,349 --> 00:26:42,069
Speaker 2: sped up anything. No, but yeah, the private lactation consultant

588
00:26:42,069 --> 00:26:44,629
Speaker 2: that I paid three hundred and fifty dollars for was

589
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:47,469
Speaker 2: worth every single penny because she got a new technique

590
00:26:47,469 --> 00:26:50,549
Speaker 2: that it was just so much less painful, and the

591
00:26:50,589 --> 00:26:53,189
Speaker 2: weekly weigh ins. They just kept showing me on the

592
00:26:53,229 --> 00:26:57,229
Speaker 2: graph that she was dropping and they said, just add

593
00:26:57,229 --> 00:26:59,189
Speaker 2: another feed, just add another feed. I was like, I

594
00:26:59,189 --> 00:27:01,669
Speaker 2: don't know where to add another feed? Yeah, yeah, where

595
00:27:01,869 --> 00:27:03,389
Speaker 2: I'm on like a two and a half to three

596
00:27:03,389 --> 00:27:05,629
Speaker 2: and a half hour cycle, depending on the day. She's

597
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:08,749
Speaker 2: taking an hour to feed, and then she's asleep or whatever.

598
00:27:08,869 --> 00:27:11,109
Speaker 1: Well, she's having her tummy time that I'm also supposed

599
00:27:11,109 --> 00:27:13,789
Speaker 1: to do. And then when am I supposed to urinate

600
00:27:14,029 --> 00:27:16,989
Speaker 1: or go? Like, when am I supposed to sleep during

601
00:27:17,069 --> 00:27:19,989
Speaker 1: this time? It makes zero sense.

602
00:27:20,229 --> 00:27:21,789
Speaker 2: I don't know. And then I also just felt like

603
00:27:21,829 --> 00:27:24,869
Speaker 2: there was nothing in there, like she was getting assitated. Yeah,

604
00:27:24,909 --> 00:27:27,229
Speaker 2: and then they just kept saying, just put them back

605
00:27:27,229 --> 00:27:31,669
Speaker 2: on for your supply. It's like, this just feels so counterproductive.

606
00:27:32,069 --> 00:27:35,909
Speaker 2: She's distressed, I'm distressed. There's clearly nothing in there. So

607
00:27:36,029 --> 00:27:38,309
Speaker 2: then last week when we had another appointment at the

608
00:27:38,349 --> 00:27:41,349
Speaker 2: community health, they said just do two top ups, two

609
00:27:41,429 --> 00:27:43,789
Speaker 2: to three top ups a day, and again was a

610
00:27:43,869 --> 00:27:46,309
Speaker 2: very kind person who said, however you do that is

611
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:48,629
Speaker 2: up to you. You can either pump in the morning

612
00:27:48,629 --> 00:27:50,389
Speaker 2: when your supply is the best, or you can give

613
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:53,069
Speaker 2: her formula and that is that is completely up to you.

614
00:27:53,189 --> 00:27:55,509
Speaker 2: I'll let you make that decision. And so we made

615
00:27:55,509 --> 00:27:58,429
Speaker 2: the decision to do formula top ups. If anyone needs

616
00:27:58,469 --> 00:28:01,149
Speaker 2: to hear this just for mental health wise, I've felt

617
00:28:01,229 --> 00:28:04,269
Speaker 2: like four thousand percent better the past week, especially going

618
00:28:04,269 --> 00:28:06,469
Speaker 2: to weigh her and she's put on three hundred grams,

619
00:28:06,669 --> 00:28:08,149
Speaker 2: which is double what they wanted.

620
00:28:08,589 --> 00:28:11,629
Speaker 1: Oh that's so good, Grace, And I mean, you're an

621
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:15,589
Speaker 1: actual superhero. You're powering through your bleeding nipples.

622
00:28:15,989 --> 00:28:19,069
Speaker 2: It's awful. Did your nipples bleed and it would please?

623
00:28:19,229 --> 00:28:21,509
Speaker 2: Can you guys tell me about your nipples.

624
00:28:21,229 --> 00:28:25,309
Speaker 1: Like I used the shields, I was actually fine, like

625
00:28:25,389 --> 00:28:27,429
Speaker 1: after my nipples got used to it, so the first

626
00:28:27,429 --> 00:28:30,749
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, but Lenny was allergic to my milk

627
00:28:30,829 --> 00:28:34,829
Speaker 1: in the air. What really shitty pregnancy, shitty birth. Didn't

628
00:28:34,949 --> 00:28:37,229
Speaker 1: like so many things. He screams all the time. He

629
00:28:37,229 --> 00:28:39,549
Speaker 1: doesn't bloody sleep. But you know what, he was a

630
00:28:39,589 --> 00:28:43,189
Speaker 1: good feeder. He wasn't cluster feeding. I felt like I

631
00:28:43,229 --> 00:28:46,749
Speaker 1: was good at one thing. Turns out he was bloody allergic.

632
00:28:47,509 --> 00:28:50,509
Speaker 2: That's awful. I'm sorry that has so that is all.

633
00:28:50,669 --> 00:28:54,349
Speaker 1: Yeah, my nipples were after they got past that first sensitivity.

634
00:28:54,829 --> 00:28:58,189
Speaker 1: They were actually okay. Also, any other new mums that

635
00:28:58,229 --> 00:29:00,709
Speaker 1: are listening, I promise you that they will not forever

636
00:29:00,749 --> 00:29:01,789
Speaker 1: look like cow utters.

637
00:29:01,909 --> 00:29:03,429
Speaker 3: Lucy was over the other day, She's like, oh, yeah,

638
00:29:03,469 --> 00:29:05,789
Speaker 3: nipples look really different. They've kind of gone back to normal.

639
00:29:05,829 --> 00:29:08,589
Speaker 2: And I was like, I feel like I might have started

640
00:29:08,629 --> 00:29:11,869
Speaker 2: pointing in weird direct Is that a thing that happens?

641
00:29:12,309 --> 00:29:15,149
Speaker 3: I mean, Grace, from now on, they're going to point

642
00:29:15,189 --> 00:29:16,189
Speaker 3: in very different directions.

643
00:29:16,229 --> 00:29:19,069
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, just a gift stop.

644
00:29:19,069 --> 00:29:20,429
Speaker 3: They're going to be even more different.

645
00:29:20,989 --> 00:29:23,469
Speaker 2: That's what they don't tell you about. Like in pregnancy,

646
00:29:23,509 --> 00:29:26,549
Speaker 2: they go, everything's going to stop, all of your pregnancy symptoms.

647
00:29:26,749 --> 00:29:28,269
Speaker 2: You're going to feel like a normal human being. But

648
00:29:28,309 --> 00:29:31,189
Speaker 2: they don't talk about the new world of things that

649
00:29:31,309 --> 00:29:35,669
Speaker 2: hit you, which is postpartum bowel movements. I can't even

650
00:29:36,269 --> 00:29:38,589
Speaker 2: that's traumatic. I made a midnight phone call to my

651
00:29:38,629 --> 00:29:41,909
Speaker 2: midwife because I felt like it was at an actual emergency.

652
00:29:41,949 --> 00:29:45,429
Speaker 1: It wasn't because you both felt like anything in No, I.

653
00:29:45,349 --> 00:29:46,909
Speaker 2: Couldn't get anything out. Gross.

654
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:48,549
Speaker 3: I'm right there with you. Don't worry about that, Like

655
00:29:48,589 --> 00:29:49,869
Speaker 3: even if you have a c section.

656
00:29:50,229 --> 00:29:54,149
Speaker 1: The pop was hard poopa, though I was the opposite.

657
00:29:54,189 --> 00:29:56,589
Speaker 1: I couldn't really not, Grace, so.

658
00:29:56,509 --> 00:29:59,069
Speaker 2: For your body was just getting it out six weeks.

659
00:29:59,709 --> 00:30:02,309
Speaker 1: I have so many memories of sitting with Len on

660
00:30:02,349 --> 00:30:05,069
Speaker 1: the toilet if no one was there, and I thought,

661
00:30:05,069 --> 00:30:07,309
Speaker 1: this cannot be good for the baby to be breathing

662
00:30:07,349 --> 00:30:09,229
Speaker 1: this in right now. But I had no other option,

663
00:30:09,709 --> 00:30:14,029
Speaker 1: like some tis even be feeding with like catastrophic diary

664
00:30:14,229 --> 00:30:16,629
Speaker 1: coming out of my body for six weeks.

665
00:30:16,869 --> 00:30:19,509
Speaker 2: That is wild, wild.

666
00:30:19,709 --> 00:30:22,189
Speaker 3: And you had a lot of drugs too that usually

667
00:30:22,189 --> 00:30:24,869
Speaker 3: back you up because that's your issue. Yeah, that's the issue,

668
00:30:24,869 --> 00:30:27,109
Speaker 3: isn't it's actually the drugs, So drugs backing you up.

669
00:30:27,149 --> 00:30:30,429
Speaker 3: And also you're so dehydrated from breastfeeding, you can't keep

670
00:30:30,509 --> 00:30:33,909
Speaker 3: up the water intake. It's just a whole mess of

671
00:30:33,949 --> 00:30:37,029
Speaker 3: all of those things. Oh, I'm just so proud of you, Grace,

672
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:40,069
Speaker 3: Like I'm so toughed for you. Formula top ups are

673
00:30:40,069 --> 00:30:44,029
Speaker 3: the best, and I think that you introducing it at

674
00:30:44,069 --> 00:30:47,869
Speaker 3: the right time was genius and I'm just so excited.

675
00:30:47,949 --> 00:30:49,589
Speaker 3: It makes such a difference when you don't have to

676
00:30:49,629 --> 00:30:51,749
Speaker 3: worry about their weight and their feeding and they're happy.

677
00:30:52,269 --> 00:30:55,149
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not also being able to have the option

678
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:58,189
Speaker 2: of giving Nora to my partner to do one of

679
00:30:58,189 --> 00:31:02,749
Speaker 2: those feeds is incredible when you you know, it's so lovely,

680
00:31:02,749 --> 00:31:04,789
Speaker 2: all the beautiful cuddles, but you do get a bit

681
00:31:05,149 --> 00:31:07,549
Speaker 2: touchdown OWT, Yeah, how are.

682
00:31:07,389 --> 00:31:09,909
Speaker 1: You going with the lack of sleep, because you've also

683
00:31:09,949 --> 00:31:15,909
Speaker 1: been feeding her a lot. You look good, like your

684
00:31:15,949 --> 00:31:18,269
Speaker 1: eyes are not falling out of your head, so.

685
00:31:19,109 --> 00:31:20,829
Speaker 2: I feel like it could be worse.

686
00:31:21,109 --> 00:31:23,309
Speaker 1: Do you need a lot of sleep?

687
00:31:23,469 --> 00:31:25,829
Speaker 2: Like in general, I kind of like have been a

688
00:31:25,829 --> 00:31:29,589
Speaker 2: person who thrives in chaos of busyness in general, and

689
00:31:29,629 --> 00:31:32,909
Speaker 2: like when you're on like big projects or things, you

690
00:31:32,909 --> 00:31:34,789
Speaker 2: know you can push through in like four hours. Like

691
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:37,069
Speaker 2: I used to do this like crazy job on different

692
00:31:37,109 --> 00:31:39,709
Speaker 2: time zones and then I'd go to five fifteen forty

693
00:31:39,709 --> 00:31:42,749
Speaker 2: five classes because I was up anyway. So that kind

694
00:31:42,829 --> 00:31:43,989
Speaker 2: of you thrive.

695
00:31:43,749 --> 00:31:46,669
Speaker 1: On like adrenaline and chaos busy.

696
00:31:46,829 --> 00:31:48,869
Speaker 2: Yeah, which so this is a whole different world. But

697
00:31:49,349 --> 00:31:53,269
Speaker 2: the first week at home wasn't great because she wouldn't

698
00:31:53,349 --> 00:31:55,949
Speaker 2: sleep in the basinet. She'd only sleep like she's a

699
00:31:55,949 --> 00:32:00,469
Speaker 2: little velcrow baby. She'd only sleep on me or Josh.

700
00:32:00,669 --> 00:32:02,829
Speaker 2: And you know, then you're trying not to.

701
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:06,749
Speaker 1: Fall asleep, which is impossible when I'm so tired and

702
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:09,269
Speaker 1: you're sitting in the dark on a comfortable couch.

703
00:32:09,309 --> 00:32:10,109
Speaker 2: How do you like?

704
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:12,909
Speaker 1: But then you've got so much anxiety about falling to.

705
00:32:12,869 --> 00:32:16,309
Speaker 2: Sleep yep, yeah, all of the terrifying things that you read.

706
00:32:16,429 --> 00:32:19,309
Speaker 2: And then it was probably we'd been home for six days.

707
00:32:19,349 --> 00:32:23,269
Speaker 2: We'd had a weekend of family coming to visit, which

708
00:32:23,349 --> 00:32:26,829
Speaker 2: was just exhausting, and then we decided at like six thirty,

709
00:32:26,869 --> 00:32:28,669
Speaker 2: we just said, all right, let's just go to bed

710
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:31,069
Speaker 2: at six thirty. Who are we kidding? And we did

711
00:32:31,069 --> 00:32:35,069
Speaker 2: this like routine together at nighttime, like from six thirty

712
00:32:35,389 --> 00:32:38,509
Speaker 2: till six thirty, so basically twelve hours in bed and

713
00:32:38,589 --> 00:32:40,789
Speaker 2: just were like feeding and then putting her down straight away,

714
00:32:40,829 --> 00:32:42,709
Speaker 2: and we were doing it together, and then she just

715
00:32:42,749 --> 00:32:45,069
Speaker 2: stopped hating the basinette as much. So I feel like

716
00:32:45,109 --> 00:32:48,629
Speaker 2: we get like two and a half hour blocks and

717
00:32:48,669 --> 00:32:52,629
Speaker 2: then the odd four hour block of uninterrupted sleep.

718
00:32:52,989 --> 00:32:56,389
Speaker 1: That first four hour block, Oh oh, you.

719
00:32:56,349 --> 00:32:58,109
Speaker 2: Feel like a different person. That was not the case

720
00:32:58,189 --> 00:33:00,229
Speaker 2: last night. Sadly, she knew that you.

721
00:33:00,189 --> 00:33:02,589
Speaker 1: Were having a chat are the adults today? And she

722
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:05,749
Speaker 1: was like absolutely not, Mum, absolutely not.

723
00:33:06,349 --> 00:33:09,349
Speaker 2: She was just fussing before we jumped on and I

724
00:33:09,389 --> 00:33:10,709
Speaker 2: was like, I looked down at her. I was like,

725
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:13,669
Speaker 2: don't you let me have this? Let me have this?

726
00:33:13,789 --> 00:33:15,589
Speaker 1: And now she's just like Okay, I'm just gonna sit.

727
00:33:16,029 --> 00:33:17,469
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at.

728
00:33:17,349 --> 00:33:18,109
Speaker 3: Her little head.

729
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:19,149
Speaker 1: She's so cute.

730
00:33:19,549 --> 00:33:22,469
Speaker 3: I am obsessed with names. How did you pick her name?

731
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:28,189
Speaker 2: It's such an unemotional story. We were going through baby

732
00:33:28,309 --> 00:33:32,749
Speaker 2: names on the internet and just being like no, no, no,

733
00:33:33,229 --> 00:33:36,069
Speaker 2: and Nora was one that we both didn't say no to.

734
00:33:36,349 --> 00:33:38,149
Speaker 2: It wasn't like our favorite we had. We had a

735
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:41,029
Speaker 2: short list of three. We had Florence, which was my favorite,

736
00:33:41,069 --> 00:33:44,829
Speaker 2: and we had Aralia, which was Josh's favorite. Aralia was

737
00:33:44,989 --> 00:33:47,789
Speaker 2: because when we on our honeymoon, we went and did

738
00:33:47,789 --> 00:33:50,989
Speaker 2: a wine tour and the person running the tour in Bordeaux,

739
00:33:51,109 --> 00:33:53,669
Speaker 2: her name was Aralia and we're like, great name, great

740
00:33:53,709 --> 00:33:57,069
Speaker 2: paino NOAs excellent, and so we kind of kept that.

741
00:33:57,149 --> 00:33:59,109
Speaker 2: And then when I was pregnant, I was like, I

742
00:33:59,189 --> 00:34:01,869
Speaker 2: just don't think we have an Aralia, Like, I don't

743
00:34:01,869 --> 00:34:04,509
Speaker 2: think we're that fancy. I feel like it sounds a

744
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:08,109
Speaker 2: bit whankory. I get you. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful,

745
00:34:08,109 --> 00:34:10,389
Speaker 2: but it wasn't us. And then so we added Noura.

746
00:34:10,829 --> 00:34:14,109
Speaker 2: It was down the bottom on the list, and it

747
00:34:14,229 --> 00:34:16,789
Speaker 2: just slowly kind of kept up. And then there was

748
00:34:16,989 --> 00:34:19,309
Speaker 2: a girl at mum and Mia. She had a baby

749
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:22,109
Speaker 2: four months before me, and she called her daughter Florence,

750
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:24,109
Speaker 2: and we're in the same team, and I was like,

751
00:34:24,109 --> 00:34:26,389
Speaker 2: it's just a bit too close. Even though she wouldn't

752
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:28,149
Speaker 2: have cared, no one would have cared. But it does

753
00:34:28,189 --> 00:34:30,149
Speaker 2: just change it. It does change it.

754
00:34:30,509 --> 00:34:33,629
Speaker 3: And the thing is, Florence is a really popular name

755
00:34:33,789 --> 00:34:38,709
Speaker 3: these days, whereas I think Laura's still. Yeah, Noura's one

756
00:34:38,709 --> 00:34:40,749
Speaker 3: of those names that you don't hear all the time,

757
00:34:40,749 --> 00:34:42,429
Speaker 3: which I think is still has a bit of a

758
00:34:42,429 --> 00:34:46,589
Speaker 3: flare of uniqueness about it. Yes, I rode deep on

759
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:50,149
Speaker 3: the names Grace. I'm like obsessed with names and naming

760
00:34:50,229 --> 00:34:52,389
Speaker 3: babies and stuff. Does she have a middle name?

761
00:34:52,789 --> 00:34:55,589
Speaker 2: She has two middle names, so she has I'm a

762
00:34:55,629 --> 00:34:57,749
Speaker 2: grief person, as he would know. One of her middle

763
00:34:57,789 --> 00:35:00,349
Speaker 2: names is Katie, which is my best friend who died

764
00:35:00,989 --> 00:35:05,029
Speaker 2: almost four years ago. And the second middle name is Robin,

765
00:35:05,029 --> 00:35:08,149
Speaker 2: which is Josh's mum. And we did that to honor

766
00:35:08,149 --> 00:35:10,669
Speaker 2: his side of the family because thelast name is my

767
00:35:10,709 --> 00:35:11,669
Speaker 2: last name is Rubray.

768
00:35:11,949 --> 00:35:14,029
Speaker 1: I absolutely love that.

769
00:35:14,429 --> 00:35:16,309
Speaker 3: I couldn't let your last name go to away.

770
00:35:16,629 --> 00:35:20,509
Speaker 2: It's too pretty to not carry on. Yeah, I really

771
00:35:20,589 --> 00:35:22,709
Speaker 2: like it my last name, and I feel a lot

772
00:35:22,749 --> 00:35:24,629
Speaker 2: of identity to it. I'm sure people are just like

773
00:35:25,229 --> 00:35:26,949
Speaker 2: that thing of no matter what, it's a man's last

774
00:35:27,029 --> 00:35:28,629
Speaker 2: name and all of that stuff and say, well, no,

775
00:35:28,669 --> 00:35:31,189
Speaker 2: it's mine. It's what I was born with, and so

776
00:35:31,309 --> 00:35:33,589
Speaker 2: I really cared about it. Josh didn't really care about it,

777
00:35:34,189 --> 00:35:35,869
Speaker 2: so it was kind of an easy decision, but he

778
00:35:35,909 --> 00:35:38,349
Speaker 2: wanted to put his mum's name in there, so he

779
00:35:38,429 --> 00:35:40,949
Speaker 2: felt like there was a part of his family also

780
00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:44,429
Speaker 2: in there. But he's very advanced. He's like, it doesn't

781
00:35:44,469 --> 00:35:46,629
Speaker 2: make her any less mine if it's not my last name.

782
00:35:46,749 --> 00:35:49,709
Speaker 1: So h into toxic masculinity and that blow by the

783
00:35:49,749 --> 00:35:50,349
Speaker 1: sounds of it.

784
00:35:50,589 --> 00:35:52,349
Speaker 2: No, no, not.

785
00:35:52,309 --> 00:35:55,989
Speaker 3: At all, because you did mention Katie just then did

786
00:35:56,229 --> 00:35:59,549
Speaker 3: your grief around losing her and her not being there

787
00:35:59,549 --> 00:36:02,429
Speaker 3: for the experience? Did that have an impact on your

788
00:36:02,469 --> 00:36:04,789
Speaker 3: pregnancy at all? Because I know that my grief this

789
00:36:04,869 --> 00:36:08,789
Speaker 3: time around with Suki, my grief was really central to

790
00:36:09,189 --> 00:36:11,709
Speaker 3: my pregnancy. Just in case anyone else out there has

791
00:36:11,789 --> 00:36:14,589
Speaker 3: gone through something similar and as pregnant.

792
00:36:16,349 --> 00:36:20,069
Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely did have you know, she would have

793
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:21,949
Speaker 2: been one of the first people I told, or she

794
00:36:21,989 --> 00:36:24,949
Speaker 2: would have been Josh And I made jokes that she

795
00:36:24,949 --> 00:36:26,869
Speaker 2: she would have like wedged her way into a scan

796
00:36:26,989 --> 00:36:29,869
Speaker 2: at some point and that really sucks. But where it

797
00:36:29,909 --> 00:36:32,709
Speaker 2: impacted me the most, well, one was her mum, Like

798
00:36:32,749 --> 00:36:35,229
Speaker 2: I'm close with her family, and her mum made a

799
00:36:35,269 --> 00:36:39,469
Speaker 2: bunch of handmade clothes and a rug and she came

800
00:36:39,509 --> 00:36:41,749
Speaker 2: over to give them to me, and that was really hard.

801
00:36:42,229 --> 00:36:46,509
Speaker 2: Like we both got quite upset at that because she

802
00:36:46,549 --> 00:36:49,949
Speaker 2: feels that she won't get this opportunity to have this

803
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:52,989
Speaker 2: with Katie, and we were both I think we probably

804
00:36:52,989 --> 00:36:55,629
Speaker 2: were both leaning on each other in that moment of

805
00:36:56,349 --> 00:36:58,509
Speaker 2: the absence of that person. But where it probably showed

806
00:36:58,549 --> 00:37:01,069
Speaker 2: up the most is it's a very complicated reason how

807
00:37:01,189 --> 00:37:04,709
Speaker 2: Katie died. Katie got a blood clot from the astrosenic

808
00:37:04,709 --> 00:37:07,709
Speaker 2: har vaccines. So in terms of what are the chances

809
00:37:07,749 --> 00:37:11,349
Speaker 2: pregnancy complications, like, I didn't really have a way to

810
00:37:11,429 --> 00:37:14,749
Speaker 2: manage that anxiety because I've seen what are the chances

811
00:37:14,789 --> 00:37:17,429
Speaker 2: in real life, So I really struggled with that. And

812
00:37:17,749 --> 00:37:20,149
Speaker 2: I was giving birth at the same place that Katie died,

813
00:37:20,389 --> 00:37:23,149
Speaker 2: So that was probably the main reason I didn't want

814
00:37:23,149 --> 00:37:26,309
Speaker 2: to have a city section is obviously she was sick

815
00:37:26,349 --> 00:37:29,029
Speaker 2: when she came into hospital, but she had brain surgery

816
00:37:29,069 --> 00:37:32,269
Speaker 2: there to try and get this clot out, and I

817
00:37:32,309 --> 00:37:35,389
Speaker 2: was petrified. It was really petrified. Yeah, what's hard is you,

818
00:37:35,469 --> 00:37:37,109
Speaker 2: Like you look down at Nora and you go, well,

819
00:37:37,149 --> 00:37:39,949
Speaker 2: she represents a life that Katie's never going to witness,

820
00:37:40,029 --> 00:37:42,309
Speaker 2: and that's really hard. And I'm sure that would be

821
00:37:42,309 --> 00:37:46,749
Speaker 2: the same. It can just be very triggering environments depend Yeah,

822
00:37:47,069 --> 00:37:49,909
Speaker 2: So I told my midwife what happened, like they do

823
00:37:49,989 --> 00:37:52,629
Speaker 2: a big three hour like who are you, what's your

824
00:37:52,669 --> 00:37:54,949
Speaker 2: medical history, what's your mental health history? And I told

825
00:37:54,989 --> 00:37:57,669
Speaker 2: them about Katie and that I was obviously going to

826
00:37:57,669 --> 00:38:02,189
Speaker 2: be going into this hospital, and because she died in lockdown,

827
00:38:02,589 --> 00:38:05,109
Speaker 2: I was never able to go in. So I'd always

828
00:38:05,149 --> 00:38:08,829
Speaker 2: been piecing together visually what had happened, even though like,

829
00:38:08,869 --> 00:38:11,709
Speaker 2: I know what happened. And I said, so at one

830
00:38:11,709 --> 00:38:14,109
Speaker 2: point I might ask to see where the ICU is

831
00:38:14,469 --> 00:38:15,989
Speaker 2: because I'm just going to be weird and I'm just

832
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:18,829
Speaker 2: going to want to see it. Yeah, And she said, oh, well,

833
00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:20,629
Speaker 2: the birth center is actually on the same floor, so

834
00:38:20,709 --> 00:38:23,229
Speaker 2: I had to walk past it every single appointment, which

835
00:38:23,389 --> 00:38:28,189
Speaker 2: was good and weird, and you know, okay, yeah, yeah,

836
00:38:28,229 --> 00:38:30,469
Speaker 2: because all you've got is, you know, just these little

837
00:38:30,589 --> 00:38:35,229
Speaker 2: snapshots of other people's stories and you're kind of endowing

838
00:38:35,269 --> 00:38:38,429
Speaker 2: them as to her stories or you know, when I

839
00:38:38,469 --> 00:38:40,389
Speaker 2: was being wheeled into the C section, I was like

840
00:38:41,069 --> 00:38:42,789
Speaker 2: being wheeled through the corridors and you're like, am I

841
00:38:42,829 --> 00:38:45,789
Speaker 2: going to see something that says neurological? Oh or something

842
00:38:45,829 --> 00:38:48,749
Speaker 2: like that? Like it's I tried to, you know, dig

843
00:38:48,789 --> 00:38:51,069
Speaker 2: into the whimsy of it. That's you know, Norah's going

844
00:38:51,109 --> 00:38:53,149
Speaker 2: to take her first breath in the same place Katie

845
00:38:53,149 --> 00:38:56,069
Speaker 2: took her last. But it was you know, I think

846
00:38:56,789 --> 00:38:58,629
Speaker 2: you can keep saying that mantras so it feels like

847
00:38:58,669 --> 00:39:01,029
Speaker 2: it's it's it's real. But I think it was more

848
00:39:01,709 --> 00:39:04,269
Speaker 2: putting together the pieces of something that I wasn't physically

849
00:39:04,269 --> 00:39:07,909
Speaker 2: able to be there for, which was hard. It's so

850
00:39:08,069 --> 00:39:08,829
Speaker 2: hard grief.

851
00:39:08,869 --> 00:39:10,989
Speaker 3: As I know, you've been very kind to me during

852
00:39:11,509 --> 00:39:13,669
Speaker 3: my grief, which I thank you for. But it's just

853
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:16,949
Speaker 3: I think anytime you're bringing a baby in, it's another

854
00:39:17,069 --> 00:39:19,589
Speaker 3: level of like the wave that comes in of grief.

855
00:39:19,709 --> 00:39:23,549
Speaker 3: So but I'm really glad that Katie came up organically

856
00:39:23,549 --> 00:39:25,869
Speaker 3: because I was wanting to ask you about her, which I.

857
00:39:25,909 --> 00:39:27,589
Speaker 2: Go, I'll talk about it all the time, you know,

858
00:39:27,709 --> 00:39:29,789
Speaker 2: as you know, people stop asking at a certain point

859
00:39:29,789 --> 00:39:32,669
Speaker 2: and you're like, great, even though it's depressing, I'll talk

860
00:39:32,709 --> 00:39:33,149
Speaker 2: about it.

861
00:39:33,509 --> 00:39:36,349
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that's really important to us too, Like

862
00:39:36,429 --> 00:39:38,869
Speaker 3: we do ever want to stop talking about Charlie's mom,

863
00:39:38,909 --> 00:39:42,669
Speaker 3: Like it just seems like a disservice to them memory

864
00:39:42,749 --> 00:39:46,429
Speaker 3: and everything, especially when it's like sudden an accident, you know,

865
00:39:46,509 --> 00:39:47,269
Speaker 3: a medical thing.

866
00:39:47,429 --> 00:39:49,509
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I get it. People are like

867
00:39:49,709 --> 00:39:52,269
Speaker 2: scared that you're gonna cry, that they have to do something. Yeah,

868
00:39:52,269 --> 00:39:54,349
Speaker 2: you don't have to do anything. I'm just I'm just

869
00:39:54,389 --> 00:39:56,469
Speaker 2: gonna feel some feelings on the outside. Yeah, you don't

870
00:39:56,509 --> 00:39:57,229
Speaker 2: have to do anything.

871
00:39:57,429 --> 00:39:58,349
Speaker 3: You don't even have to touch me.

872
00:39:58,509 --> 00:40:02,429
Speaker 2: Just actually I prefer if you didn't listen, just not exactly.

873
00:40:02,989 --> 00:40:05,829
Speaker 3: Yeah, And just how we honor people, I think, Yeah,

874
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:08,749
Speaker 3: how we deal with grief is in this part of

875
00:40:08,789 --> 00:40:12,549
Speaker 3: the world is very sad. I want to change that.

876
00:40:12,989 --> 00:40:16,629
Speaker 2: It's lonely and it's behind closed doors, and it's you know,

877
00:40:16,669 --> 00:40:19,989
Speaker 2: they more from being someone's name to being your loss.

878
00:40:20,149 --> 00:40:23,349
Speaker 2: It's even how we just speak about it. But look,

879
00:40:23,389 --> 00:40:25,349
Speaker 2: I was the same until I joined the grief club.

880
00:40:25,429 --> 00:40:27,269
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I would say so sorry

881
00:40:27,309 --> 00:40:30,429
Speaker 2: with such sincerity that I would cure their sadness. You know,

882
00:40:30,509 --> 00:40:33,229
Speaker 2: I was really genuine about it. And then you know,

883
00:40:33,269 --> 00:40:35,109
Speaker 2: you just don't know until you know, and then you're

884
00:40:35,229 --> 00:40:38,469
Speaker 2: on that side and you'd go, oh, let's talk about them.

885
00:40:38,469 --> 00:40:39,469
Speaker 2: What do you want to do? Do you want to

886
00:40:39,469 --> 00:40:41,509
Speaker 2: talk about them? Do you want to like share a memory?

887
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:45,349
Speaker 2: Do you want to tell me about the horrific circumstances

888
00:40:45,389 --> 00:40:47,669
Speaker 2: that you found you in the grief club, Like the

889
00:40:47,709 --> 00:40:49,269
Speaker 2: conversations don't scare you anymore.

890
00:40:49,629 --> 00:40:54,029
Speaker 1: Everyone's so different. Our friend had lost her father in

891
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:58,429
Speaker 1: the most tragic sort of circumstances that you could lose someone,

892
00:40:58,789 --> 00:41:01,469
Speaker 1: and she wanted to talk to us about it, and

893
00:41:01,469 --> 00:41:05,869
Speaker 1: she wanted like she went into every single graphic detail.

894
00:41:06,029 --> 00:41:08,389
Speaker 2: It's the same as a birth story, like it's something

895
00:41:08,469 --> 00:41:11,589
Speaker 2: that's changed you. So you can't do it without going

896
00:41:11,629 --> 00:41:14,269
Speaker 2: from the start to the end exactly. You have to

897
00:41:14,349 --> 00:41:17,309
Speaker 2: just tell it how it happened, until it's been some

898
00:41:17,509 --> 00:41:19,469
Speaker 2: years and you can just be like, oh, yes, here

899
00:41:19,469 --> 00:41:20,509
Speaker 2: are the dot points.

900
00:41:20,869 --> 00:41:23,029
Speaker 1: Yeah, when people ask me about my birth story, I

901
00:41:23,029 --> 00:41:26,229
Speaker 1: still will go through every bloody detail if they'll let me, because.

902
00:41:25,949 --> 00:41:28,149
Speaker 2: It's the moment you became a different person. Now, that's

903
00:41:28,189 --> 00:41:28,989
Speaker 2: the same as grief.

904
00:41:29,309 --> 00:41:33,509
Speaker 3: It's an interesting parallel of grief and birth and motherhood,

905
00:41:33,549 --> 00:41:35,629
Speaker 3: isn't it Like they are all quite things that you

906
00:41:35,629 --> 00:41:38,269
Speaker 3: have an idea of from the outside, but then when

907
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:43,589
Speaker 3: you actually enter that stage or of your life, it's

908
00:41:43,869 --> 00:41:45,989
Speaker 3: so different from what you can imagine.

909
00:41:46,189 --> 00:41:48,229
Speaker 2: Yeah, a friend of mine had a newborn around the

910
00:41:48,269 --> 00:41:50,229
Speaker 2: same time like I was in that first year of

911
00:41:50,509 --> 00:41:53,989
Speaker 2: after Katie died, and we found a lot of commonality

912
00:41:54,029 --> 00:41:56,869
Speaker 2: in how we were living life at the time, even

913
00:41:56,909 --> 00:42:01,109
Speaker 2: though we were having such different experiences. It was the fog.

914
00:42:01,629 --> 00:42:04,029
Speaker 2: It's the fact that your life has changed, the fact

915
00:42:04,109 --> 00:42:08,069
Speaker 2: that the highs are like all of this love, but

916
00:42:08,469 --> 00:42:11,109
Speaker 2: you know, the newborn side is that there's an addition

917
00:42:11,389 --> 00:42:14,669
Speaker 2: rather than something being taken away, and then the lows

918
00:42:14,749 --> 00:42:17,269
Speaker 2: are I don't feel like the same person anymore, and

919
00:42:17,309 --> 00:42:21,389
Speaker 2: it's the same yea, even though it was completely different circumstances,

920
00:42:21,429 --> 00:42:24,509
Speaker 2: it was really nice to talk to someone who was

921
00:42:24,509 --> 00:42:26,429
Speaker 2: in that same confusion.

922
00:42:26,869 --> 00:42:31,429
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, I wanted to ask you about Josh, your partner,

923
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:34,509
Speaker 3: your husband, I should say, what's it been like to

924
00:42:34,549 --> 00:42:35,429
Speaker 3: see him as a father?

925
00:42:35,749 --> 00:42:39,589
Speaker 2: It's pretty special. It's really special. I actually remember when

926
00:42:39,629 --> 00:42:43,869
Speaker 2: we were getting ready for your wedding key and it

927
00:42:43,949 --> 00:42:46,549
Speaker 2: was something that you said, and I think Charlie said

928
00:42:46,549 --> 00:42:48,429
Speaker 2: it as well, of like watching each other beat parents.

929
00:42:48,469 --> 00:42:50,989
Speaker 2: He's just so special. Yeah, And I always remembered that.

930
00:42:51,429 --> 00:42:54,149
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say he's an annoying type A, but he's

931
00:42:54,189 --> 00:42:57,189
Speaker 2: definitely more type A than I am. Yeah. Yeah, And

932
00:42:57,269 --> 00:42:59,669
Speaker 2: he tries to hack a lot of things, and he's

933
00:42:59,709 --> 00:43:01,789
Speaker 2: like determined to get the sleeping thing right, and I'm

934
00:43:01,789 --> 00:43:04,309
Speaker 2: a little bit more like who knows what's going to happen.

935
00:43:04,749 --> 00:43:07,229
Speaker 2: Maybe the better analogy is he grew up in the city.

936
00:43:07,269 --> 00:43:09,149
Speaker 2: I grew up in the country, so I'm a bit

937
00:43:09,149 --> 00:43:12,629
Speaker 2: more free range of we'll figure it out whatever, walk

938
00:43:12,669 --> 00:43:15,069
Speaker 2: it off kind of vibe. And he like really wants

939
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:18,389
Speaker 2: to figure things out, Like every like useful piece of

940
00:43:18,509 --> 00:43:21,629
Speaker 2: technology that we have is something that he's researched and purchased,

941
00:43:21,629 --> 00:43:24,949
Speaker 2: like a sterilizer, whereas I'm on Facebook marketplace being like

942
00:43:24,949 --> 00:43:27,029
Speaker 2: we can get this half broken thing for free. How

943
00:43:27,069 --> 00:43:28,829
Speaker 2: good is he?

944
00:43:28,869 --> 00:43:31,509
Speaker 3: A chat GPT dad, because this is Charlie.

945
00:43:31,109 --> 00:43:33,749
Speaker 2: O'tosh Charlie.

946
00:43:33,789 --> 00:43:36,749
Speaker 3: Every night, let's repick a story via chat GEP.

947
00:43:37,069 --> 00:43:40,829
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so funny. That's so good. Yeah,

948
00:43:40,869 --> 00:43:44,389
Speaker 2: he's he's more playtime dad. Like I've changed five nappiece

949
00:43:44,509 --> 00:43:46,949
Speaker 2: in six weeks. I'll be honest. I like, that's his job.

950
00:43:47,069 --> 00:43:50,189
Speaker 2: That's a legend yeah, legendary. And because I'm milk lady

951
00:43:50,429 --> 00:43:53,909
Speaker 2: and he's true man who man, But he does like

952
00:43:53,989 --> 00:43:55,429
Speaker 2: he's the one who goes I think we should do

953
00:43:55,469 --> 00:43:57,229
Speaker 2: Tommy time. And he takes her and goes and does

954
00:43:57,269 --> 00:43:59,189
Speaker 2: it and then he like puts all the like black

955
00:43:59,229 --> 00:44:02,029
Speaker 2: and white things around her and plays with her. That

956
00:44:02,189 --> 00:44:05,389
Speaker 2: is really beautiful to see. Yeah, so I'm like, oh

957
00:44:05,469 --> 00:44:06,509
Speaker 2: I get some time off.

958
00:44:06,909 --> 00:44:08,389
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you very much.

959
00:44:08,429 --> 00:44:11,829
Speaker 2: I'll take it, thank you, unity le. He works for

960
00:44:11,869 --> 00:44:14,909
Speaker 2: the government, so he is sixteen weeks. Oh I know.

961
00:44:15,269 --> 00:44:18,589
Speaker 2: So it's insane. He took the first six weeks off

962
00:44:18,629 --> 00:44:21,309
Speaker 2: and now he's back at work this week. But then

963
00:44:21,549 --> 00:44:24,389
Speaker 2: we are going to embark on a very ambitious thing.

964
00:44:24,429 --> 00:44:27,189
Speaker 2: We're going to go traveling together as a family from

965
00:44:27,269 --> 00:44:29,629
Speaker 2: December start of December to mid January. We're going to

966
00:44:29,669 --> 00:44:31,309
Speaker 2: go to Ireland and Portugal and.

967
00:44:32,389 --> 00:44:33,789
Speaker 3: Oh my god, amazing.

968
00:44:34,989 --> 00:44:36,629
Speaker 1: If I was to do it all over again, I

969
00:44:36,629 --> 00:44:38,549
Speaker 1: think that that's a brilliant idea. And everyone I know

970
00:44:38,589 --> 00:44:40,429
Speaker 1: that's done it has said it was great. You're going

971
00:44:40,469 --> 00:44:42,749
Speaker 1: to have a newborn, a fresh little baby. May so

972
00:44:42,749 --> 00:44:44,109
Speaker 1: we do it in another country.

973
00:44:44,349 --> 00:44:46,589
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we sort of went, well, we don't have him.

974
00:44:46,629 --> 00:44:48,589
Speaker 2: We're renteds, we don't have a mortgage, so we don't

975
00:44:48,589 --> 00:44:50,869
Speaker 2: have like our I mean, we would love to, but

976
00:44:51,149 --> 00:44:53,669
Speaker 2: we're not in that financial position. When are we going

977
00:44:53,709 --> 00:44:55,909
Speaker 2: to have the same amount of time bulk of time

978
00:44:55,949 --> 00:44:59,229
Speaker 2: off again, because we only we only want to have one,

979
00:44:59,629 --> 00:45:02,229
Speaker 2: like she's perfect. Why I try again? Until like we

980
00:45:02,269 --> 00:45:05,109
Speaker 2: retire all long service leave or whatever, We're never going

981
00:45:05,189 --> 00:45:08,029
Speaker 2: to have paid time off again. So we're just as

982
00:45:08,149 --> 00:45:11,229
Speaker 2: chaotic because it's probably going to be. We are leaning

983
00:45:11,229 --> 00:45:12,629
Speaker 2: in and hopefully it's fine.

984
00:45:12,829 --> 00:45:17,029
Speaker 3: Toddlers, I would say, well, this is what Bingle said.

985
00:45:17,229 --> 00:45:19,389
Speaker 2: When they can move and when you're having to prep

986
00:45:19,469 --> 00:45:22,989
Speaker 2: full meals, it's all over. It's not amount of time.

987
00:45:23,469 --> 00:45:24,869
Speaker 3: When you're the milk lady, you can just do a

988
00:45:24,869 --> 00:45:27,589
Speaker 3: little top up with formula. Yeah, that's great, that's great.

989
00:45:28,029 --> 00:45:31,789
Speaker 1: Yes, you mentioned to me in the office one day

990
00:45:32,229 --> 00:45:35,869
Speaker 1: that you were one and done. What went into that

991
00:45:35,949 --> 00:45:38,229
Speaker 1: decision and do you still feel I mean, you've just

992
00:45:38,229 --> 00:45:40,429
Speaker 1: said so, I'm assuming you still feel the same way.

993
00:45:41,469 --> 00:45:43,749
Speaker 2: Yes, I do. The decision to be one and done

994
00:45:43,869 --> 00:45:47,389
Speaker 2: is a bit. It's like when Chapel Rohane said that

995
00:45:47,429 --> 00:45:49,949
Speaker 2: thing about all of her friends with kids, I hate

996
00:45:49,989 --> 00:45:53,109
Speaker 2: their life. I was a little bit that's kind of

997
00:45:53,149 --> 00:45:53,909
Speaker 2: the philosophy.

998
00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:58,829
Speaker 1: I'm wrong in some ways.

999
00:45:59,989 --> 00:46:03,069
Speaker 2: All of my friends and that have multiple kids, the

1000
00:46:03,509 --> 00:46:06,429
Speaker 2: identity shift that they've felt, the depths that they've gone to,

1001
00:46:06,549 --> 00:46:09,189
Speaker 2: that you're having conversations with them where they don't feel

1002
00:46:09,189 --> 00:46:12,269
Speaker 2: like themselves, whether their partner's gone back to work and

1003
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:14,629
Speaker 2: they've been very career people and they're like, I don't

1004
00:46:14,669 --> 00:46:18,989
Speaker 2: know who I am. I know that I need work

1005
00:46:19,029 --> 00:46:21,749
Speaker 2: and I need to feel like I'm doing something. And

1006
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:23,629
Speaker 2: that's not to say it's such a tricky thing, because

1007
00:46:23,629 --> 00:46:25,869
Speaker 2: also I'm aware, Key, you have two children, and I

1008
00:46:25,909 --> 00:46:27,829
Speaker 2: know that this is it's been so tricky for you

1009
00:46:27,909 --> 00:46:31,469
Speaker 2: this postpartum period as well. I don't want to lose

1010
00:46:31,509 --> 00:46:34,949
Speaker 2: a sense of identity and we wanted to always outnumber

1011
00:46:35,149 --> 00:46:37,629
Speaker 2: our children is one of the things we thought, and

1012
00:46:37,709 --> 00:46:40,869
Speaker 2: also financially, I don't know how that works, and I

1013
00:46:40,869 --> 00:46:43,069
Speaker 2: think if I did have two, it would be I

1014
00:46:43,069 --> 00:46:45,589
Speaker 2: would probably feel that pressure to take more time off work,

1015
00:46:45,669 --> 00:46:47,749
Speaker 2: or I would probably feel guilty. I was seeing a

1016
00:46:47,749 --> 00:46:50,109
Speaker 2: lot of my friends who were picking like a work

1017
00:46:50,149 --> 00:46:54,029
Speaker 2: thing and then punishing themselves for taking time away from

1018
00:46:54,029 --> 00:46:56,549
Speaker 2: the child, and I want to kind of, I guess

1019
00:46:56,829 --> 00:46:58,989
Speaker 2: do both well, and I'm probably going to do both

1020
00:46:59,069 --> 00:47:01,629
Speaker 2: at fifty percent, and that's okay. I don't know. It's

1021
00:47:01,629 --> 00:47:03,509
Speaker 2: such a tricky one to answer. Now that she's here.

1022
00:47:03,709 --> 00:47:07,629
Speaker 2: It felt less real when I was just before I

1023
00:47:07,669 --> 00:47:09,229
Speaker 2: was pregnant, and when I was pregnant by being like

1024
00:47:09,269 --> 00:47:11,629
Speaker 2: we just want one. Now, I definitely don't feel an

1025
00:47:11,709 --> 00:47:13,749
Speaker 2: urge to go again. I didn't feel that surge of like,

1026
00:47:13,749 --> 00:47:16,229
Speaker 2: oh my god, let's make a hundred, especially after a

1027
00:47:16,269 --> 00:47:19,589
Speaker 2: bad pregnancy. I think it's just wanting time to still

1028
00:47:19,789 --> 00:47:22,749
Speaker 2: feel like I'm getting to do the things that make

1029
00:47:22,829 --> 00:47:24,909
Speaker 2: me me, and that could change, like this could be

1030
00:47:24,989 --> 00:47:28,509
Speaker 2: I could find so much fulfillment in this that I

1031
00:47:28,589 --> 00:47:32,789
Speaker 2: don't need to keep climbing a career thing. But I'm

1032
00:47:32,829 --> 00:47:35,069
Speaker 2: so terrified of not having time to do that.

1033
00:47:35,429 --> 00:47:38,349
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that we were able to speak to you, Grace.

1034
00:47:38,389 --> 00:47:40,269
Speaker 3: I think they'll ending on one and done is really

1035
00:47:40,269 --> 00:47:40,829
Speaker 3: good as well.

1036
00:47:40,909 --> 00:47:43,589
Speaker 2: It feels controversial to talk about it because look, I

1037
00:47:43,629 --> 00:47:46,389
Speaker 2: have said this to some people and they do get offended,

1038
00:47:46,589 --> 00:47:48,989
Speaker 2: and so I feel it's hard to share it because

1039
00:47:49,149 --> 00:47:51,189
Speaker 2: I do find that some people get offended. It's weird,

1040
00:47:51,269 --> 00:47:54,149
Speaker 2: isn't it. But even like, yeah, it's a stress. You

1041
00:47:54,189 --> 00:47:56,749
Speaker 2: don't want to criticize anyone else's life choices.

1042
00:47:57,069 --> 00:48:00,589
Speaker 3: I've just had my second and I'm not offended by that, Grace.

1043
00:48:00,669 --> 00:48:03,789
Speaker 3: I think for me, it's like, yeah, everything that you've

1044
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:06,349
Speaker 3: said is right. Like I feel like I'm not doing

1045
00:48:06,389 --> 00:48:10,549
Speaker 3: well and I feel like had I realized what I

1046
00:48:10,589 --> 00:48:14,789
Speaker 3: would have been sacrificing in my relationship with Rue, that's

1047
00:48:14,829 --> 00:48:18,389
Speaker 3: something I wasn't expecting. So I think that Obviously I

1048
00:48:18,429 --> 00:48:23,429
Speaker 3: love Suki, She's like delicious, and I don't regret Suki.

1049
00:48:23,549 --> 00:48:26,309
Speaker 3: But I think that I'm jealous of people who have

1050
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:29,869
Speaker 3: enough awareness to be like, oh no, no, I'm one

1051
00:48:29,909 --> 00:48:32,109
Speaker 3: and done, because I think that that's a really responsible

1052
00:48:32,749 --> 00:48:35,789
Speaker 3: choice to make, and it's also honoring yourself.

1053
00:48:36,029 --> 00:48:38,829
Speaker 1: I think that anyone that gets offended by other people's

1054
00:48:38,909 --> 00:48:41,949
Speaker 1: life choices. I think it says more about them than you.

1055
00:48:42,509 --> 00:48:46,029
Speaker 1: There's no point judging someone else's decision, because if you

1056
00:48:46,149 --> 00:48:48,829
Speaker 1: have thoughts about someone else's that probably means you're not

1057
00:48:48,909 --> 00:48:50,509
Speaker 1: that comfortable with yours potentially.

1058
00:48:50,869 --> 00:48:53,269
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, the work is going to have to

1059
00:48:53,269 --> 00:48:54,949
Speaker 2: come into it from us, Like we're going to have

1060
00:48:54,989 --> 00:48:57,589
Speaker 2: to be way like very proactive with friends, or we're

1061
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:59,389
Speaker 2: going to have to be very proactive with playtime.

1062
00:48:59,549 --> 00:49:01,109
Speaker 1: Oh and you've got to play with them all the time.

1063
00:49:01,109 --> 00:49:05,229
Speaker 1: I would say that, but because you can't just go

1064
00:49:05,269 --> 00:49:07,989
Speaker 1: play with your brother, Oh lass.

1065
00:49:07,669 --> 00:49:09,869
Speaker 3: There is none but how nice when they get a

1066
00:49:09,909 --> 00:49:12,629
Speaker 3: bit and then you've got space in the car for

1067
00:49:12,669 --> 00:49:15,909
Speaker 3: their friends and you can have sleepovers. And look, I

1068
00:49:15,949 --> 00:49:17,869
Speaker 3: was an only child. I was lonely, but for many

1069
00:49:17,869 --> 00:49:20,589
Speaker 3: other reasons. But I had great cousins that I was

1070
00:49:20,589 --> 00:49:22,989
Speaker 3: around all of the time. So if you just make

1071
00:49:23,029 --> 00:49:25,589
Speaker 3: sure that you have a great set of friends with

1072
00:49:26,029 --> 00:49:31,669
Speaker 3: kids and they all kind of plunkin together, it's so fine.