Speaker 1: Hard work works, yes, and I think the trick is
Speaker 1: to apply it to something that comes a bit more naturally.
Speaker 1: Everyone thinks, oh, I just want to be happy. I
Speaker 1: just want to be happy. But I like to say,
Speaker 1: I think you want to be fulfilled. I hired a
Speaker 1: x NYPD Oh my God, forensic scientist.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Sees the YA Podcast.
Speaker 3: Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too
Speaker 3: rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then
Speaker 3: we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize
Speaker 3: there's more than one way. So this is a platform
Speaker 3: to hear and explore the stories of those who found
Speaker 3: lives They adore, the good, bad and ugly. The best
Speaker 3: and worst day will bear all the facets of seizing
Speaker 3: your ya. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah,
Speaker 3: a lawyer turned funentrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels
Speaker 3: to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar. CZA
Speaker 3: is a series of conversations on finding a life you
Speaker 3: love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment
Speaker 3: along the way.
Speaker 2: Lovely Neighborhood, Welcome to twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Oh my God, that doesn't even sound like a real thing.
Speaker 2: How wild that we are a twenty twenty five already.
Speaker 2: I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas, if you celebrate,
Speaker 2: and a wonderful Holidays, and that your year is off
Speaker 2: to a flying start. I worked out a couple of
Speaker 2: days ago that the first episode of this show came
Speaker 2: out in twenty eighteen, and I never ever dreamed that
Speaker 2: we'd still be here in twenty twenty five. So firstly,
Speaker 2: just wanted to say the most heartfelt thank you to
Speaker 2: all of you who keep coming back every year and
Speaker 2: who have made the past few years with CZA so incredible.
Speaker 2: It feels a bit like I've grown up with some
Speaker 2: of you, having shared moments and milestones in real time,
Speaker 2: definitely overshared on most of those fronts, and who have
Speaker 2: gone through so many different life chapters since we started,
Speaker 2: including of course having our beautiful little teddy Bear, who
Speaker 2: you've all embraced so warmly, which I really appreciate. Anyway,
Speaker 2: after two blissful weeks off full of very analog playta
Speaker 2: and forgetting what day or time it is, which is
Speaker 2: exactly what holidays are for, we are back with a
Speaker 2: very special episode to start the year. Although, as an aside,
Speaker 2: to all my fellow parents out there, how are you
Speaker 2: all feeling Christmas? With a little one? Infinitely more magical,
Speaker 2: But saying goodbye to nap some holidays or lying down
Speaker 2: at all was a root awakening for me, so rips
Speaker 2: lost Sundays for the next a while and sending thoughts
Speaker 2: and prayers to you all. As for our guest, I
Speaker 2: couldn't think of anyone more special to help us start
Speaker 2: a new year than my very best friend Ebony Beggs,
Speaker 2: whose story embodies the idea of beautiful new beginnings, both
Speaker 2: in itself and in the fact that this was her
Speaker 2: first time properly telling the story in her first podcast
Speaker 2: interview ever, which you would absolutely not know from how
Speaker 2: eloquent she is as you will hear, She's just one
Speaker 2: of the most inspiring people, and I'm so excited to
Speaker 2: have her on the show. Finally, some of you may
Speaker 2: remember we had the incredible opportunity of doing a live
Speaker 2: episode at south By Southwest last year with all Pacive
Speaker 2: and Novertel, and I finally peer pressured Ebb into being
Speaker 2: my guest there because as it was live, I could
Speaker 2: promise it wouldn't be recorded, but then, unsurprisingly, as I
Speaker 2: knew she would, she blew us all away and I
Speaker 2: just had to rerecord it to start your twenty twenty
Speaker 2: five with a bang. So here we are. You will
Speaker 2: already have heard me talk or rave should I say
Speaker 2: about Ebb and her sister Ashley's exquisite women's label, uphem
Speaker 2: which is revolutionizing the professional woman's wardrobe with a high quality,
Speaker 2: slow fashion ethos and life changing technical fabrics that you
Speaker 2: will hear. They have gone to the ends of the
Speaker 2: earth to source think non crush, no iron shirts, machine
Speaker 2: washable silk, I mean literally changing the game for the busy,
Speaker 2: modern working woman. In this episode, we tell the story
Speaker 2: of how eb and ash left seriously high flying careers
Speaker 2: in New York mind you to bring this dream to life.
Speaker 2: And even more interesting, there's a dash of Diane von Furstenberg,
Speaker 2: chemical poisoning, NYPD detectives, Parisian exchanges, which yes, indeed is
Speaker 2: where we fell in love all those years ago back
Speaker 2: at UNI. There's pretty much a bit of everything in
Speaker 2: this episode. Ebb still doesn't believe it herself, but it
Speaker 2: is the most fascinating story and I hope you guys
Speaker 2: enjoy it as much as I did. Ebb, my love,
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: So we have actually already done this conversation. We've had
Speaker 2: this beautiful conversation in Sydney when we did a live
Speaker 2: show at south By Southwest and it was the first
Speaker 2: time you'd ever done something like that. It was the
Speaker 2: first podcast you'd ever done, and it was so good
Speaker 2: that I just had to do it again. Like we
Speaker 2: didn't record on the day, and I was like, this
Speaker 2: needs to live somewhere.
Speaker 1: Expectation management keep it low. Already already close to canceling.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so before we get into any of the story,
Speaker 2: when you're best friends with someone, you can forget how
Speaker 2: extraordinary they are. And that was one of those days
Speaker 2: where I got to rehear your story in chronological order
Speaker 2: and hear you tell some of the incredible things that
Speaker 2: you've done with you firm that I didn't even know,
Speaker 2: but to hear how eloquent and intelligent and clever and
Speaker 2: creative you are, Like, it's such a nice reminder when
Speaker 2: you're so close to somebody, but to everyone else who's
Speaker 2: going to hear that and going to think the same thing.
Speaker 2: I think they really need to remember that we've spent
Speaker 2: a lot of today, a lot of the last week,
Speaker 2: and a lot of the weeks before that. Are you going,
Speaker 2: I don't really think we should do it? Like should
Speaker 2: I do it? Even like two hours beforehand?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the old doubt monster you've been shuting on me
Speaker 1: the last two weeks just said, just always managed to
Speaker 1: find its way to tell you it's just not the
Speaker 1: right time or it's not there's just excuses.
Speaker 2: You just can.
Speaker 4: You've got to work hard to put that doubt monster at.
Speaker 2: Bay, an't you? So sometimes it's just like calling a friend.
Speaker 2: I'm Sarah.
Speaker 1: It's just monsters. I have my failure today today, got
Speaker 1: to cancel. But no, it's yeah, it's been a big,
Speaker 1: big doubt monster week for me. I'm just very glad
Speaker 1: that I can.
Speaker 2: I'm honored that we made it here today and a privilege.
Speaker 1: No thank you though, for having me on this beautiful podcast.
Speaker 1: I've watched you grow and blossom into this incredible, amazing
Speaker 1: woman that you are, and I am just on it
Speaker 1: to be on your journey in any small way.
Speaker 2: My gosh, Well, I love you so much and I'm
Speaker 2: so proud of your story and it is so interesting
Speaker 2: to have heard how many times you sort of thought
Speaker 2: it wasn't good enough, or that you wouldn't do justice
Speaker 2: to the show, or like, and guys, when you hear
Speaker 2: the story, you will be so surprised that that's the
Speaker 2: dialogue that goes through Ebb's head. And I think it
Speaker 2: goes through everyone's head. You just don't hear it that often.
Speaker 2: All you hear is like the shiny stuff in the bio,
Speaker 2: that's the stuff that makes the articles, or like you're
Speaker 2: on the cover of the AFR and like you don't
Speaker 2: see how much negative self chatter happens to every person
Speaker 2: before those articles come out. So I think it was
Speaker 2: important to start with that and how close, like how
Speaker 2: many times you sort of like I keep thinking of
Speaker 2: reasons not to do it, even though there really were
Speaker 2: no reasons not to do it. And I was sort
Speaker 2: of like, I want this story to be out in
Speaker 2: the world. Not enough of the neighborhood hurt it the
Speaker 2: first time around, and I want that to be like
Speaker 2: in the interwebs forever, and for you also to then
Speaker 2: look back in five years and go, oh my god,
Speaker 2: that's how I felt then, you.
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, absolutely terrifying, but let's let's do it.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm proud of it. You've done that the hard thing,
Speaker 2: and you've created upham, which is just I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: we'll get to the whole story of it, but first
Speaker 2: just have to acknowledge that I am wearing. You've can
Speaker 2: do squats, I can lift my child, I can sit
Speaker 2: for an hour. I'm so unbelievably comfortable, and yet I
Speaker 2: look so chic, gorgeous. You've just created like I don't
Speaker 2: just oh my god.
Speaker 1: Oh we that's our organic cotton crepe, which we treat
Speaker 1: with a lovely mint botanical that reduces odor.
Speaker 2: I need that right now in summer.
Speaker 1: But yet we don't like to wash out and it's
Speaker 1: very often, so why shouldn't we treat it with a
Speaker 1: gorgeous mint botanical that can stop you from absorbing sense
Speaker 1: on your on your fabrics.
Speaker 2: So, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: Anyway we can get.
Speaker 2: More of that, we'll get there. And I mean the
Speaker 2: way that you've chosen fabrics and been so discerning about
Speaker 2: fabrics that work hard for you in ways that I
Speaker 2: didn't even know. Now I appreciate that difference so much
Speaker 2: because I think you have never smelled in your whole
Speaker 2: entire life. It's just not possible. Well, speaking of there
Speaker 2: are chapters of our life together where you know I've
Speaker 2: smelled Well, okay, let's go back. You know, I love
Speaker 2: to go back to the very beginning and trace through
Speaker 2: all the chapters were and many many, I mean new
Speaker 2: fems a recent chapter for you. So all the chapters
Speaker 2: were you were on different pathways or were a different person.
Speaker 2: So let's go back to childhood. What was baby Ebony?
Speaker 2: Like many little Ebb who you know had that first
Speaker 2: dream if I want to be an astronaut or a
Speaker 2: space cowboy, whatever you wanted to be, Like, what was
Speaker 2: that person? What did you think your future would look like?
Speaker 2: And yeah, what were your hopes and dreams?
Speaker 1: I think little eb was she liked a lot of
Speaker 1: creative things, Like she was always building things or making things,
Speaker 1: little dresses for dolls, or creating. I remember in primary
Speaker 1: school doing silkscreen cotton T shirts that said love is
Speaker 1: love or choose love or something like that. Like I
Speaker 1: had this really obsession with the word love and wanted
Speaker 1: it on lots of T shirts. And I think I
Speaker 1: made these and maybe in grade six and sold them
Speaker 1: to friends and family in my neighborhood and it was
Speaker 1: just like a little, really simple play thing, cotton t shirts.
Speaker 1: I think I've always really been attracted to fabrics and colors,
Speaker 1: and that was what I was gravitated towards when I
Speaker 1: was little, and then I think going through school, it
Speaker 1: was always about the arts.
Speaker 4: That was what gave me life.
Speaker 1: Sitting in the art room, making pottery or like clay work,
Speaker 1: all of that was just what I was really really
Speaker 1: drawn to as a young person. As a child, I
Speaker 1: think looking at artwork and trying to decipher what the
Speaker 1: artist was telling me was absolutely what I would most
Speaker 1: connect with out of any other type of subject or
Speaker 1: anything in the world.
Speaker 2: Really, Oh my gosh, it is so cool to me
Speaker 2: that I met you in a really academic chapter of
Speaker 2: your life that was very like commercial fine and it's
Speaker 2: law like heavy academia. But now where you are versus
Speaker 2: where you started in textiles and fabrics and art, like
Speaker 2: Lord is just such a random.
Speaker 1: Dim I know, And it was I think what we
Speaker 1: all a lot of us did when you got good grades.
Speaker 1: And I think at that stage of my life, I
Speaker 1: was like, great, I'm going to go out in the
Speaker 1: world and be a businesswoman and make money and support
Speaker 1: my family, and that really really drove me for a
Speaker 1: very long time. I think that path to riches, which
Speaker 1: I think you start to change what riches look like
Speaker 1: as you go older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when would you say, like I think when
Speaker 2: where children, we follow those natural inclinations of I'm interested
Speaker 2: in art, so I'll do art, and you kind of
Speaker 2: choose your hobbies and you choose the subjects that you
Speaker 2: like based on those things, and then at some point
Speaker 2: the decision making process gets really convoluted and influenced by
Speaker 2: like shoulds and success and objective kind of measures of
Speaker 2: what your life is society, Like, when did you decide,
Speaker 2: Like I think anyone who's interested in the arts, there
Speaker 2: is always this idea of but can you make a
Speaker 2: career of it? Treated as something that's not going to
Speaker 2: make you money? What age do you think you started
Speaker 2: to think that can't be my full time job, like
Speaker 2: I've got to have something else.
Speaker 1: I think it was had to be when you're choosing
Speaker 1: your Uni degree, really like eleven year twelve, I'm choosing
Speaker 1: my subjects. I was definitely art was my strongest subjects,
Speaker 1: and all of the arts and humanities were I guess
Speaker 1: I didn't know enough about what the pathways were.
Speaker 4: At that stage.
Speaker 1: All I knew was that law you could make money
Speaker 1: and art. It was uncertain.
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not that you can't still certain, right Like I
Speaker 1: think for some people they do, and they do really well.
Speaker 4: But I think it was a slam dunk.
Speaker 2: In the end.
Speaker 1: It was just like, well, of course, let's do arts
Speaker 1: law and go on to do a law degree, which
Speaker 1: I think was the hardest time of my life.
Speaker 2: Part of that was obviously the best time in your life.
Speaker 2: I found the most important person found each other.
Speaker 4: We found each other at each other because we.
Speaker 2: Were literally like we met in this chapter, because we
Speaker 2: were wearing like the exact same outfit many times not
Speaker 2: on purpose, and before we even really knew each other.
Speaker 2: I think I turned up. I ran into you at
Speaker 2: Chadstone when you were doing one of your seventeen part
Speaker 2: time jobs. We were in the same outfit and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, that's the hot, smart, clever
Speaker 2: girl from UNI and my best friends with I just
Speaker 2: happened to be wearing the same shoes as Smer, but
Speaker 2: it was bright yellow ballot for bright yellow. I actually
Speaker 2: think they did like it's there's sliding doors moment, and
Speaker 2: ours was the yellow Belope.
Speaker 4: What you wear matters in life. It might not have
Speaker 4: been best friends.
Speaker 2: Was bright yellow. It all comes back to fashion. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the thing exactly. So I met you in chapter
Speaker 2: and you have constantly been one of the hardest workers
Speaker 2: that I know. And in the context of you will
Speaker 2: find something that you don't find particularly comfortable or that
Speaker 2: is a totally foreign entity to you, and you'll just
Speaker 2: learn everything that you can about it, and even though
Speaker 2: you find it hard, and even though you're like at
Speaker 2: the start, you're like, I have no idea about that,
Speaker 2: You'll just go and do it, and you'll become amazing
Speaker 2: at it. And like I don't always think something might
Speaker 2: come as art different so natural that comes to you,
Speaker 2: like it's an extension of your body. But things like
Speaker 2: certain legal subjects, I would find you wouldn't necessarily find
Speaker 2: it easy, but you would excel and be brilliant because
Speaker 2: you would just work really hard at it and you
Speaker 2: wouldn't stop until you just research the fuck out of it,
Speaker 2: or until we went on a study trip together and
Speaker 2: just like works so hard that we took our laptops
Speaker 2: to the toilet. Because you can take a break, but
Speaker 2: you've always applied yourself. And I think it's a great
Speaker 2: example of you can be an arty person who's not
Speaker 2: necessarily legal minded and still be good at law with
Speaker 2: hard work.
Speaker 1: I think it is a huge lesson that we all
Speaker 1: know and learn that hard work works, yes, And I
Speaker 1: think the trick is to apply it to something that
Speaker 1: comes a bit more naturally. Because I think I was
Speaker 1: going down that path of law teaching myself to be
Speaker 1: a really analytical person. I think those skills have been
Speaker 1: so valuable for me in life and business now. But
Speaker 1: that was hard, I think, and it is hard to
Speaker 1: do it for a long time, even if you do
Speaker 1: think you're good at it, or you might be good
Speaker 1: at it. I think it is a square peg round
Speaker 1: hole situation for me anyway it was.
Speaker 2: I've seen you be a square peg in a lot
Speaker 2: of round holes but still be able to fit yourself
Speaker 2: into them. But that's an incredible skill and that a
Speaker 2: lot of people give up before. They can feel like
Speaker 2: we silo ourselves and go, oh, I'm arty, so I
Speaker 2: couldn't do this, or I'm academic, so I couldn't do
Speaker 2: that creative thing. I think, actually, if you try a
Speaker 2: lot of different things. You can do a lot of
Speaker 2: different things, and you're amazing at that. But what went
Speaker 2: through your mind while you were doing your law degree?
Speaker 2: Was there a point where you were like, oh, maybe
Speaker 2: I don't want to be a lawyer? Like what did
Speaker 2: you do?
Speaker 5: Probably immediately, I probably do the whole degree staying power, No, immediately,
Speaker 5: was it really?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I really believe that I really struggled through it.
Speaker 2: I really forced myself through it.
Speaker 1: And I feel like the first two years was just
Speaker 1: like I was just dragging myself through that degree. And
Speaker 1: I loved so many parts of like UNI itself, Like
Speaker 1: I love that, you know, the friendships we made, and
Speaker 1: the social component of UNI, and the lifestyle I loved.
Speaker 1: I had so many part time jobs, and I loved
Speaker 1: all of my work, Like I was able to work
Speaker 1: in all these different industries that I found and made,
Speaker 1: Like from retail, I worked at Chanel, I worked at inw.
Speaker 2: For a while, Like we did the motor shows.
Speaker 4: Motor shows, so many, so random random.
Speaker 1: I liked all of that part of UNI a lot
Speaker 1: more than the degree itself, and I think I don't
Speaker 1: regret having the degree.
Speaker 2: But I knew from very early on that law was
Speaker 2: not going to be for me. I did not know
Speaker 2: it was that early. But that's really interesting because I
Speaker 2: also think that when you know that something's not for you,
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people stop there and they go, well,
Speaker 2: i'll quit. But if you don't know what else you're
Speaker 2: going to do instead, like you've got to do something, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the time's going to pass anyway. Yeah, I knew that.
Speaker 4: I would never have regretted completing it.
Speaker 1: Like I knew that, given that I didn't know what
Speaker 1: exactly I wanted to do at that stage, I thought,
Speaker 1: this is fine for now.
Speaker 2: It will tick a.
Speaker 1: Few boxes, It ticks a few ego things as well,
Speaker 1: you know, it makes a resume look pretty. It was
Speaker 1: fine for that time of my life. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: knew it was not going to be a long term situation.
Speaker 2: So when did you decide that you'd try management consulting
Speaker 2: and not follow that momentum that kind of like conveyable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I was never really heard of management
Speaker 1: consulting before. But I was working as a paralegal at
Speaker 1: Free Hills in one on one Collins Street at the.
Speaker 2: Time, Yes, for good Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I so I did that for two years before
Speaker 1: finishing my law.
Speaker 2: Degree, and I always used to see some.
Speaker 1: Of the management's consultants from BCG where I worked for
Speaker 1: a while, go up to the level fifty two or
Speaker 1: whatever it was, and I was just more intrigued by it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what is management consulting?
Speaker 4: Anyone can answer that? No, kidding, I know what it is.
Speaker 2: In fact, most management consultants are like, there's like a
Speaker 2: lot of Excel modeling and a lot of business and
Speaker 2: I still don't get it.
Speaker 1: Doctors for businesses is the easiest side to explain it,
Speaker 1: like doctors for businesses. And that process of going so
Speaker 1: going through the interview process for that and then finally
Speaker 1: getting a grad job at BCG, I think it was
Speaker 1: one of a really proud moment for me in my life.
Speaker 1: I never really imagined what a life would look like
Speaker 1: outside of the law because I hadn't done a business
Speaker 1: degree or anything like that, and my arts degree didn't
Speaker 1: really show any open up paths either. So when I
Speaker 1: went through that process, which was grueling interview process of
Speaker 1: case studies where they test your math skills on the spot,
Speaker 1: which is pretty hard for an arts graduate to be
Speaker 1: able to do, like on the spot mental math I found.
Speaker 1: But yeah, when I will never forget the day I
Speaker 1: got a call that I got the grad job.
Speaker 4: I squealed with delight.
Speaker 1: I was on the floor, was crying with excitement, and
Speaker 1: I just thought, this is the right step. It's not
Speaker 1: maybe what I want to do forever, but this is
Speaker 1: such a great step for me right now, and I'm
Speaker 1: so glad I did it.
Speaker 2: You're again, like such an amazing reminder that you don't
Speaker 2: have to go into something and always think it's going
Speaker 2: to be forever for it to be worthy. Like I
Speaker 2: think people assume it's a waste of time if you
Speaker 2: already know you're not going to be in it forever,
Speaker 2: Like why would you do it? Because stepping stones like
Speaker 2: that whole staircasing, you don't need to jump to the top.
Speaker 2: You just need to take the next step and that
Speaker 2: will lead to all of the next things that followed.
Speaker 1: Also, just at that really early stage of your career,
Speaker 1: it's just like what do you need to learn?
Speaker 4: Like what else do you want to learn?
Speaker 1: And what we had done sixty year degrees, arts law
Speaker 1: and with honors. We had learned so much, and I
Speaker 1: still felt like there was still a big gap for
Speaker 1: me in terms of learning, but not what I could
Speaker 1: learn in a lecture theater. It was more what could
Speaker 1: be learned out there in the world, and in this case,
Speaker 1: it was just going into big businesses and seeing what
Speaker 1: help they needed.
Speaker 2: I think one of the coolest things at that time
Speaker 2: was watching you go. I had it to a much
Speaker 2: lesser extent of going into commercial law and not having
Speaker 2: a commerce degree, but that's very common, whereas going into
Speaker 2: management consulting without any commerce or finance background or finance
Speaker 2: subjects is much more rare. And I remember distinctly watching
Speaker 2: you go, these are the skills I'm going to need
Speaker 2: for this interview process and these tests and this like
Speaker 2: the grueling process. These are the skills I don't have.
Speaker 2: These are skills I'm going to need. And you just
Speaker 2: studied so hard, Like I remember you sitting down and
Speaker 2: sitting down with like your boyfriend's dad, your boyfriend at
Speaker 2: the times of dad, and you know, like just being
Speaker 2: like grilled me on these things. As it was so
Speaker 2: inspiring to watch you go. I don't have that commerce
Speaker 2: brain yet, but I will, and obviously you did by
Speaker 2: the time you interviewed for it. But that was like
Speaker 2: that blew me away because I hadn't had those leaps
Speaker 2: in trying to fit myself into it, Like I was
Speaker 2: the round peg for the round hole. I'd started for
Speaker 2: seven years to go into law, So it wasn't as
Speaker 2: big a jump where as you were, like early you
Speaker 2: decided to do something scary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I never really thought about it as
Speaker 1: being big and scary at the time, I think, which
Speaker 1: is amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just I felt like it was just the right
Speaker 1: path and it was something that I needed to do
Speaker 1: to get through the hurdles of proving myself. I guess
Speaker 1: looking back at that time, like with what I know now,
Speaker 1: there's this kind of overarching theme of that it's it's
Speaker 1: never as hard as it looks or it's never as
Speaker 1: hard as as it seems to be. And I think
Speaker 1: we do that to ourselves a little bit, just the
Speaker 1: same way I did it today with doing this podcast
Speaker 1: with you. I'm like, oh, you know, it's in my head,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it's going to be this really grueling,
Speaker 1: difficult thing for me to do, but it's just our
Speaker 1: mind playing tricks on us. We really have to, you know,
Speaker 1: manage that process a lot more mental rigor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And I think we also get scared of
Speaker 2: the concept in its macro form, like all of the steps,
Speaker 2: whereas the only thing you actually have to do is
Speaker 2: the first small step. Yeah, if you don't think about that,
Speaker 2: you just think about the big thing. Yeah, like oh
Speaker 2: my god, the whole thing is scary, but it's like
Speaker 2: you only have to do one day's today's worth of it,
Speaker 2: or the first sentence and then the rest of it came. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And something I've always said is how do you eat
Speaker 1: an elephant?
Speaker 2: And it's one bite at a time. I always those.
Speaker 1: Tasks as like, Okay, how are you going to eat
Speaker 1: the elephant? And just like one bite, Just like think
Speaker 1: of one bite.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: And that's how I've always thought about these big curly
Speaker 1: time where you just like just take one bite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard you say that, but I love that
Speaker 2: so much. I thought that about at the start of
Speaker 2: MATCHA that it was like I didn't have to And
Speaker 2: it's actually Nick who helped me with that, because I
Speaker 2: was like, well, how are we going to ship to Afghanistan?
Speaker 2: And he was like, well, babe, we're not even we
Speaker 2: don't even have a business. You don't worry about that.
Speaker 2: Like I was eight bound and steps ahead, and he
Speaker 2: was like, you just need to sell one bag. Once
Speaker 2: you have enough like infrastructure to sell, you can sell tens,
Speaker 2: like just one.
Speaker 4: One, sell one. It's such a good way of thinking
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 2: It's an elephant. Yeah, it's the elephant. Yeah. So BCG
Speaker 2: was a an incredibly formative chapter for you, very very
Speaker 2: long hours, very demanding, but hugely like impressive, Like you
Speaker 2: worked in some such cool things and you were like
Speaker 2: constantly traveling around and like what's a common here and there?
Speaker 2: So tell us about that chapter and then how you
Speaker 2: knew when there was a chance to jump.
Speaker 1: It was a crazy two or three years, I guess
Speaker 1: of you know, those early analysts type days. We were
Speaker 1: working ninety hour weeks on projects, often flying to I
Speaker 1: was in Melbourne at the time, planning to Sydney for work,
Speaker 1: and then I was living in Sydney, flying in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: I learned a lot, Like I learned how to use
Speaker 1: Excel pretty really well, pretty well. I'm going to have
Speaker 1: to say that I'm pretty good at it now and
Speaker 1: that all of my colleagues would probably be like, I
Speaker 1: can't believe she could use Excel anyway. Yeah, And It
Speaker 1: was actually the first time in my life where I
Speaker 1: was quite attuned to I know this sounds a bit crazy,
Speaker 1: but it's it planned at the seeds for UFEM. This
Speaker 1: time of my life, I started to think a lot
Speaker 1: about gender inequality. And I know this sounds a bit strange,
Speaker 1: but it was my now husband and partner at the time,
Speaker 1: and we were both in these professional roles doing really
Speaker 1: grueling hours, and I just couldn't help but think that
Speaker 1: it was so much easier for him, and what society
Speaker 1: expected of him was so different to what society expected
Speaker 1: from me as a junior professional. And I could see
Speaker 1: him effortlessly kind of not effortlessly, but a ninety hour
Speaker 1: week for him was a bit different than a nine
Speaker 1: hour week for me because I had a certain level
Speaker 1: of grooming that you have to do every day to
Speaker 1: be at that standard to be professional in the professional
Speaker 1: woman in the workplace we had, you had a lot
Speaker 1: more to think about in terms of like what you're
Speaker 1: wearing on these days as well, like you're presenting in
Speaker 1: senior client meetings, and it's a largely male dominated field.
Speaker 1: There was so much complexity to kind of thinking through
Speaker 1: the day that I knew my husband. Never never, not once,
Speaker 1: so like not showing too much skin, to what color
Speaker 1: you should wear, what type of fabrics should I wear,
Speaker 1: heels should I not? So many micro decisions that I
Speaker 1: think really way down on you, especially when you're really tired.
Speaker 1: And that's pre kids realization, because I don't really think
Speaker 1: equality gender equality ever came. It was never something I
Speaker 1: really considered until that time of my life. And I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, once going in and out of running and
Speaker 1: out of like senior client meetings, and my pants ripped
Speaker 1: because for whatever reason.
Speaker 4: They were not stretchy enough.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking what a pain act to go
Speaker 1: and get them repair and dry cleaners and all of
Speaker 1: these things that just added to this to do list
Speaker 1: that almost like sends you off the edge. So it's
Speaker 1: actually back then the early seeds started planting around this.
Speaker 1: This has got to be something better for women that
Speaker 1: are professional women in society that want to have a
Speaker 1: certain level of the way that they come across to
Speaker 1: the world, but also require a high level of comfort functionality.
Speaker 1: Even something so subtle as the temperature of a fabric
Speaker 1: on your body can make a difference of how you
Speaker 1: feel in the day. Is it a cold hand, feel
Speaker 1: or a hot hand feel, so all of these little things.
Speaker 1: That time at BCG. I thought a lot about those things. Actually,
Speaker 1: I was always trying to find what's the edge? How
Speaker 1: can I keep on top of this all when I'm
Speaker 1: already behind compared to my male peers.
Speaker 2: It just felt like that.
Speaker 1: And I don't know whether that's universal or not, but
Speaker 1: I definitely had that, and looking at my partner at
Speaker 1: the time, it just felt so much easier. I'd always
Speaker 1: wanted to make that leap into a creative field, and
Speaker 1: the best combination I think of creativity and then business
Speaker 1: and retail was going into this fashion space. And I
Speaker 1: knew that having been at BCG for two years. They
Speaker 1: kind of talk about is it time to do an
Speaker 1: MBA or is it time to do a ce comment
Speaker 1: And for me, having done so much study before, I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not the right person.
Speaker 2: For I'm not the right person.
Speaker 1: Everyone who's done them it's so much hard work and
Speaker 1: so much fun as well, but it was not for me.
Speaker 1: So they're so supportive that the company itself is so
Speaker 1: supportive at you trying to craft your own journey in
Speaker 1: the business. And at the time I said, I want
Speaker 1: to go overseas. I want to get experience in fashion
Speaker 1: or retail. Can you help me?
Speaker 4: And they did.
Speaker 1: I had arranged a two week kind of meeting schedule
Speaker 1: over there with them, and they set up a bunch
Speaker 1: of interviews and I remember going into the airport and
Speaker 1: I was kind of, did this all really flippantly in
Speaker 1: a way like I'd been thinking? Maybe it wasn't flippant.
Speaker 1: Six months of thinking about it, maybe three months of
Speaker 1: planning it and telling talking to people about who can
Speaker 1: I meet for a job in New York? And I
Speaker 1: told my my boyfriend and my husband, and he said, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm going to go to New York and get
Speaker 1: a job.
Speaker 4: And he's like you are.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, cool, bye, And I'm getting on the plane.
Speaker 4: I've got to New York and go buy.
Speaker 1: The bookstore at the at the airport and pick up
Speaker 1: a book, read it on the way on the plane.
Speaker 1: And I get to arrive in New York and it's
Speaker 1: all very you know, Alicia Keys, and I was.
Speaker 4: Just Cote Jungle, like I'm here, I'm meant to be here.
Speaker 1: I was just one hundred percent believe, but like I
Speaker 1: knew I was meant to be there.
Speaker 4: I was like, this is great. So much energy in
Speaker 4: that city.
Speaker 1: I was like, there are so many things here to do,
Speaker 1: so much to learn. And I walked into one of
Speaker 1: my first interviews, which was interesting because BCG had set
Speaker 1: this up for me through a partner in New York.
Speaker 1: And she said, Oh, I've got an interview, but I
Speaker 1: can't tell you who it's with. And I was like,
Speaker 1: how on earth am I meant to prepare for an
Speaker 1: interview when I can't even know the company? And this
Speaker 1: is obviously me who likes to like over prepare for these.
Speaker 2: Types of things.
Speaker 1: I've walked into the BCG offices and a gentleman walks
Speaker 1: in and he was introduced to me as so. His
Speaker 1: name was Palla Reva and he was the ex head
Speaker 1: of merchandising at Tory Birch.
Speaker 4: And then he sat down.
Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, have you heard of the brand
Speaker 1: Diane von Furstenberg.
Speaker 4: And I reached into my handbag.
Speaker 1: And pulled out the book that I bought at the airport,
Speaker 1: and it was her memoir, her autobiography, but a complete
Speaker 1: and utter coincidence. I was three quarters of the way
Speaker 1: through the book, I'm like, well.
Speaker 2: As it happened. It happened.
Speaker 4: I got the job, and it was the best time
Speaker 4: of my life.
Speaker 2: It was so much fun. I was just in clover.
Speaker 2: It's like the most extrawd improbable but also probable, amazing,
Speaker 2: serendipitous story. And I think if you had told yourself,
Speaker 2: like back in the T shirt making, you know, six
Speaker 2: year old everny days, that you would end up working
Speaker 2: alongside a pioneering, like globally recognized leading name in fashion,
Speaker 2: like literally not just at Diane von Furstenberg the brand,
Speaker 2: but alongside Diane von Furstenburg, the person in New York.
Speaker 2: Would never have believed it. No way, But like I
Speaker 2: always think, all the dots connect like backwards now they
Speaker 2: all make sense, like everything was leading you to that point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it was so meant to be so fortunate.
Speaker 4: It was so fortunate. It was a dream come true.
Speaker 4: It was my dream job.
Speaker 1: I was twenty six, I think, living in New York
Speaker 1: in the West Village, wearing my wrap dresses to work
Speaker 1: every day, which were just such beautiful garments. I mean,
Speaker 1: the story of the rap dress is just so iconic.
Speaker 1: It's the seventies, the feminist movement. We wanted to wear
Speaker 1: like soft jerseys that feel beautiful on the body but
Speaker 1: also feel relaxed and you can move in them and
Speaker 1: they're stretch and it's just such a beautiful story and
Speaker 1: iconic dress. I was so good to get behind it
Speaker 1: and to work in that house of the mass, the
Speaker 1: madness and the wonder and the creativity and the color
Speaker 1: and the fun and the print, and with such brilliant
Speaker 1: people as well.
Speaker 4: I learned so so much there about brand.
Speaker 2: I just remember that chapter being like we'd be facetiming
Speaker 2: and you'd just be like, hold on, Dan and wants
Speaker 2: to give me some apples from my orchid. I'm like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck is your Like, I'm just going to
Speaker 2: like an Oscars after party, Like I'm just gonna go.
Speaker 2: I was like, who are you? What did you do
Speaker 2: with my best friend from the summit.
Speaker 1: It was like a different human and it feels like
Speaker 1: a very it's a very long time ago, but it
Speaker 1: was great, what an.
Speaker 2: Amazing and we all went to visit you like one
Speaker 2: hundred million because it was just a chapter and so
Speaker 2: fun but in the true kind of representation of CZDA
Speaker 2: and also what we spoke about so much in Sydney,
Speaker 2: being a big pillar of an overtell and that difference
Speaker 2: and that like some of us have a pivotal moment
Speaker 2: between like that fast pace of life and then the
Speaker 2: slow life, and like what we think of as success
Speaker 2: and the pinnacle of momentum and busy, and I mean
Speaker 2: New York is that that's like the fastest you've ever
Speaker 2: gone and the fastest you'll ever go again. It's amazing,
Speaker 2: But like often there is this inevitable moment where you
Speaker 2: can't keep up with it and where things come into
Speaker 2: very sharp focus. And again serendipitous moments, not the path
Speaker 2: you thought that would happen, totally unexpected, out of the blue.
Speaker 2: What happened out of the blue.
Speaker 1: I started to feel unwell, really strange symptoms, which a
Speaker 1: lot of people early on.
Speaker 2: Was like stress, it's stress, it's stress, you're working too much. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we were just like, it's burnout, babe.
Speaker 1: And it was very easy to believe that for a
Speaker 1: long time, and then it just kept going on. I
Speaker 1: remember taking I took myself to Miami for a weekend
Speaker 1: or something to rest, and it just nothing felt right.
Speaker 1: I had all these strange symptoms. I wake up in
Speaker 1: the morning, had lost feelings in my limbs, I was
Speaker 1: having like strange siezures, like in my eyes, really strange headaches,
Speaker 1: all unexplainable, so many other symptoms that I had. I
Speaker 1: remember having a long list of them at the time.
Speaker 1: It was really really hard to work out what was
Speaker 1: going on, and I ended up taking some time off
Speaker 1: work because I eventually did some neurological scans and they
Speaker 1: had found some lesions on my brain which they were
Speaker 1: saying that would lead to a multiple sclerosis diagnosis. And
Speaker 1: at the time I think hearing that, I must have
Speaker 1: been twenty eight, and I was there with my fiancee
Speaker 1: and my family was back in Australia, and I.
Speaker 4: Was super scared.
Speaker 1: I took time off work, I took sick leave, and
Speaker 1: I just didn't get I wasn't getting any better.
Speaker 2: I was getting some.
Speaker 1: Treatment at the time in the hospital, and the treatment
Speaker 1: didn't do anything. I just started to realize that maybe
Speaker 1: it just didn't feel right. Something didn't feel right. So
Speaker 1: I started going down this path of you know, I
Speaker 1: think when you find out you've got some sort of illness,
Speaker 1: you holistically clean up your life, like you start learning
Speaker 1: about wellness and you clean up your diet. I was
Speaker 1: doing a lot of yoga, all the things that you're
Speaker 1: told to do when you're kind of at a burnout,
Speaker 1: I guess, but I think I was more burnt out
Speaker 1: from the stress of thinking I was really sick. So
Speaker 1: one day I think I was reading about maybe mold toxicity,
Speaker 1: and I had someone come in test the apartment for mold,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't that.
Speaker 4: And then.
Speaker 2: My sister that's right, came over actually and had the
Speaker 2: same symptoms.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Ash moved into our apartment and within about
Speaker 1: I don't know, four to six weeks, she starts waking
Speaker 1: up with numb limbs and starting having these strange things
Speaker 1: in her eyes and sieges, just.
Speaker 2: Strange like neurology urological type symptoms.
Speaker 1: And it was almost the most validating part of the
Speaker 1: whole journey and being sick, I was like, this isn't me,
Speaker 1: this is external to me. Actually, I hired a x NYPD.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, forensic scientist.
Speaker 2: What is your life? Is that?
Speaker 1: What is that even to come in and do it?
Speaker 1: So obviously it wasn't mold. Is there some other kind
Speaker 1: of substance in the apartment? Because what else could it be? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I vividly remember I was in the apartment on
Speaker 1: my own at the time, and he did the test.
Speaker 1: He was started to have a reaction even in the apartment.
Speaker 1: Stop it yeah, eyes, itchy eyes or something. He's like,
Speaker 1: there's something going on in here. And I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's scary. I think it was that time. Then I
Speaker 1: was caught up Ashley and I called up Matt and
Speaker 1: we were like, let's get out of here. Don stick
Speaker 1: at an hotel, Let's just get out. Well, let's not
Speaker 1: wait a week for these results to find out.
Speaker 2: What this is. It's something something. Yeah, we get out.
Speaker 2: We book a hotel.
Speaker 1: At the time, I was very much in my real
Speaker 1: health and wellness mode because I was trying to work
Speaker 1: out how to get better.
Speaker 2: I have a story about that letter continue.
Speaker 5: I don't know what.
Speaker 2: I don't want to know what that stories. But it
Speaker 2: was just our funny trip that we had in that
Speaker 2: chapter that was that that's a good one. Yeah. And
Speaker 2: I was coming back from Brooklyn. Actually I was.
Speaker 1: I went to a mushroom workshop on a rooftop farm
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn.
Speaker 2: That's right, you wanted to do? Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I was reaching in this time. I was getting pulled
Speaker 1: towards nature. I was like go hiking, go to farms,
Speaker 1: go like it was like some farming.
Speaker 2: It was like remember the Urban Farming Show. I had
Speaker 2: a big urban farming chapter. There are many a waiting,
Speaker 2: many chapters.
Speaker 1: It was so fun though, but it was like I
Speaker 1: needed to be in nature, and I think because New
Speaker 1: York was so not I mean, you have Central Park,
Speaker 1: but we were in we were in downtown, so it's
Speaker 1: not as easily accessible. But Okay, this call from the
Speaker 1: forensic scientist from the NYPD and he says, in my pity,
Speaker 1: and he says, we've found extremely high levels of a
Speaker 1: chemical called methylene chloride in your apartment and wait for it.
Speaker 1: Because you're of child bearing age, I highly recommend you
Speaker 1: get out.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know that double as
Speaker 2: like twenty hild bearing age. Come on. But anyway, that
Speaker 2: was not go back and check the numbers to seriously,
Speaker 2: I'm busy. I'm busy with.
Speaker 1: So that was a huge, like what the moment for us.
Speaker 1: The three of us actually all walked into an emergency
Speaker 1: ward in the hospital in New York and.
Speaker 4: They had like the whole team of.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what, like experts, expert, yeah, forensics
Speaker 1: that come in and we're doing tests on us to
Speaker 1: see if it was going to be something that they
Speaker 1: were going to see in the whole building. For example,
Speaker 1: they would need to be kind of ready for it
Speaker 1: if they're going to have one hundred people come in
Speaker 1: from a building.
Speaker 2: Like the CDC comes in and it's like, why is
Speaker 2: there not a documentary about you? I actually, let's produce
Speaker 2: that twenty five project. Let's do the story. It was
Speaker 2: because your vent, your apartment was like over the vent,
Speaker 2: so why it wasn't the entire building?
Speaker 4: So we never really got to the cruxit.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: In the US, it's like, great, who are you going
Speaker 1: to sue? And we found that the building was blaming
Speaker 1: the landlord. The landlord was leaving the building. There were
Speaker 1: other factors at play. There could have been a meth
Speaker 1: lab hot in the building here.
Speaker 2: We love that, We love that, which would have also lucrative,
Speaker 2: you know, which could.
Speaker 1: Have completely you know, gone away by the time I
Speaker 1: had to shut down the building. I think for the
Speaker 1: day that we had announced that there was a leak,
Speaker 1: it could have been simple as coming from a dry cleaning.
Speaker 1: And that also brings me back to some of the
Speaker 1: issues I had with dry cleaning, chemicals and things like that.
Speaker 4: So it was such a.
Speaker 1: Big, huge moment of like, wow, chemicals did this to us.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was almost six months into sick leave in the
Speaker 1: I had taken a lot of time off and I
Speaker 1: was so unwell, and it was such a great finding.
Speaker 4: I was like, this is easy, Like we get out
Speaker 4: of this.
Speaker 1: We get better, and that was my time to I
Speaker 1: went hiking in Portugal, we went to we did our
Speaker 1: wood trip in La so health and wellness and guys.
Speaker 2: We were both I mean, I was like post Africa.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. Yeah, it was beautiful that we went through
Speaker 2: major health crisis at a similar time, because yeah, you
Speaker 2: need your bestie to understand why you're like forensically reading
Speaker 2: the ingredients and everything, like it's a buzzkill. Recovery from
Speaker 2: a serious health crisis is a full time job.
Speaker 4: It was so much work.
Speaker 1: We were long SMOOTHI long smoothie dolls.
Speaker 2: Like it's it's a drainer. It changes your lifestyle, it's expensive,
Speaker 2: you have to do research, and like to be with
Speaker 2: someone else doing it firstly normalizes it. It makes it
Speaker 2: a lot easier. You're both passionate about the same things,
Speaker 2: but you're also going through that whole detachment of your
Speaker 2: identity from your productivity, and like both of us, our
Speaker 2: brain was reflected, our work was affected. And to go
Speaker 2: on this like liberating trip where we both knew we
Speaker 2: were getting better as well, it was like so positive
Speaker 2: but just so fucking funny that we were like, soa babes,
Speaker 2: do you want to go to like Whole Foods? Which
Speaker 2: is so much fun? But it was like the only
Speaker 2: things that we would do was like Hollo food stores.
Speaker 4: What we really wanted to do.
Speaker 2: That's all we want to do. Sleep well and sleep,
Speaker 2: drink water, be in nature, detox and we were just
Speaker 2: like health and like all the places we went to
Speaker 2: on our list for like, we didn't drink. We were
Speaker 2: just not interested. It was beautiful, but it was I
Speaker 2: think it's so reassuring for anyone. I think there are
Speaker 2: many people who probably have had medical scenarios where something
Speaker 2: in their gut is telling them it's not what people
Speaker 2: think it is, or maybe no one knows what it is,
Speaker 2: and that uncertainty, but you knowing it's something like I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of people who feel quite alone
Speaker 2: and isolated when they're in a situation like that.
Speaker 4: So isolating. Yeah, you're so isolating.
Speaker 1: You don't even really have the medical profession on your
Speaker 1: side in that sat because you're if there's something inside
Speaker 1: of you saying this isn't right, and you've got doctors
Speaker 1: telling you no, this is what you need to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got no one. Yeah, like your family obviously want
Speaker 1: to listen to what the doctors say, like they don't,
Speaker 1: we don't know, we're not equipped. It was such a huge,
Speaker 1: like a vindication, Yeah, and just to know. And also
Speaker 1: it does show the gaps in just modern medicine too.
Speaker 1: It was kind of it's a it's a bit of
Speaker 1: a gray area that modern western medicine doesn't really know
Speaker 1: how to treat long term chemical exposures at all. There
Speaker 1: wasn't really anything that doctors could say apart from time
Speaker 1: and be away from the exposure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even to think that it's only because you
Speaker 2: took it upon yourself, because you were like, I don't
Speaker 2: think it's MS. I don't think that's what it is. Like,
Speaker 2: a lot of people wouldn't necessarily have that gut instinct
Speaker 2: or belief to go and find a detective who could
Speaker 2: like help you find the answer and then to remove yourself, Like,
Speaker 2: if it's kept staying in that apartment, you would have
Speaker 2: kept having the symptanes. So I just remember what just
Speaker 2: huge life affirming relief that was for you. So good.
Speaker 2: But then it led to this beautiful new chapter of
Speaker 2: yours that has embraced the slow life in But it's
Speaker 2: been like the most perfect full circle back to yeah,
Speaker 2: chemical free, yeah, slow living. Yeah, go back to that
Speaker 2: initial observation about what a women missing. Yeah, But before
Speaker 2: we actually get to that, what I love is that
Speaker 2: you had ideas back at Uni. We were like, we
Speaker 2: want to just run a business together. And the names
Speaker 2: that you had in your brain were like you day
Speaker 2: goddesses in ancient Greek figurines of empowered females. And it's
Speaker 2: so funny to me that you had those inklings like
Speaker 2: a decade ago. So U day is short for you deneumonia,
Speaker 2: which is a Greek term for and I'm not saying
Speaker 2: pronouncing it right, but it's a Greek term for the
Speaker 2: idea of fulfillment, which I think is a really good
Speaker 2: way to think of, another way to think of happiness.
Speaker 2: So like we often everyone thinks, oh, I just want
Speaker 2: to be happy, I just want to be happy, But
Speaker 2: I like to say, I think you want to be fulfilled,
Speaker 2: and I think that's so different if you kind of
Speaker 2: switch your mindset to thinking about fulfillment. I've always had
Speaker 2: a really big interest in classical Greek mythology and the language,
Speaker 2: the literature, and there are so many interesting words from
Speaker 2: Greek philosophyics that I think we should be we can
Speaker 2: bring into our lives. And I think that was some
Speaker 2: of the words that we used to talk about back
Speaker 2: at Uni. And I love that that thread has been
Speaker 2: there and now you've found a home for it. And
Speaker 2: I think anyone listening you'll know that threads are coming
Speaker 2: up frequently along the way, and you don't have to
Speaker 2: necessarily have found where they're going to live yet, but
Speaker 2: hold on to them, like write them down. Notice that
Speaker 2: that's where your point of interest is, because now you
Speaker 2: finally they tie together. Yeah, but you couldn't have had
Speaker 2: this idea at nineteen, Like you wouldn't have executed it
Speaker 2: the way you have, and the timing all conspires to
Speaker 2: work out the way it was meant to. But it's
Speaker 2: just so interesting that like even the name you Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the sort of like origins of that name already
Speaker 2: in your brain a long time ago.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's like, if we think about it, that's
Speaker 1: sixteen years ago.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I said a decade. It's like nearly two.
Speaker 4: It's nearly too.
Speaker 2: We keep thinking we're younger. I think I'm not. What
Speaker 2: are we were the two kids embarrassing people, stare at me,
Speaker 2: Stop looking at me, Stop looking at me. So it's
Speaker 2: born about this beautiful about.
Speaker 1: So she is the name itself. She's a Greek goddess
Speaker 1: and she is actually one of Zeus's granddaughters, and she
Speaker 1: was well known for supporting other women.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: So she was calling out to us, my sister and
Speaker 1: I because I think we had always had this idea
Speaker 1: that was brewing over the last sixteen or so years
Speaker 1: that there was something out there for us to do
Speaker 1: that required us to call on new fem and support women.
Speaker 4: And we really.
Speaker 1: We've really started to, I guess, think about how do
Speaker 1: we alleviate that very magical moment every day that we
Speaker 1: get dressed and make that a moment of beauty and
Speaker 1: joy that inspires you to kind of or propels you
Speaker 1: into your day with strength and wisdom and magnetism. We
Speaker 1: do that with so much. I guess it's a lot
Speaker 1: of knowledge that we're building and over time, knowledge about
Speaker 1: fabrications and knowledge about the chemicals that we use in
Speaker 1: the industry or we don't, but that is that are
Speaker 1: being used and or how we can use. I love
Speaker 1: the intersection of heritage and innovation, like I love thinking
Speaker 1: about these beautiful old heritage mills. Was just at one
Speaker 1: that has been around since eighteen forty two, a French mill.
Speaker 1: I work with one that has been around since sixteen
Speaker 1: sixty three. It's the fifteenth generation, the same family that
Speaker 1: makes these most beautiful wool that is from Australia into
Speaker 1: the most gorgeous fabrics that just really feel different when
Speaker 1: you wear them, and they really there's a certain energy
Speaker 1: I think that you can get from being discerning about
Speaker 1: those types of things that can bring you into.
Speaker 4: Your best self.
Speaker 1: So the intersection of heritage and then thinking about innovation.
Speaker 1: So like the set that you're wearing today. I love
Speaker 1: cotton and I love wool. Two favorite by far fibers
Speaker 1: to work with this is cotton crape. And one of
Speaker 1: my bugbears about knitwear and cotton is that one the
Speaker 1: more you wash usually it doesn't really last very long, right,
Speaker 1: like they shrink or they change shape. And then also
Speaker 1: cotton and it hasn't got the best odor resistance compared
Speaker 1: to wool.
Speaker 4: So we worked.
Speaker 1: With a Swiss technology company called high Q who co
Speaker 1: developed with Patagonia a botanical treatment. So it's derived from
Speaker 1: peppermint and it is a deodorizer for cottons. So we
Speaker 1: apply that to our cotton crepes, which mean that instead
Speaker 1: of having to wash something maybe every one or two weeks,
Speaker 1: if you're wearing it on a weekly kind of cycle,
Speaker 1: you can stretcher that out to four to six weeks,
Speaker 1: which is so great from so many angles, like from
Speaker 1: your usability. You don't have time to wash all the time.
Speaker 1: You don't want to have to go to dry cleaners
Speaker 1: all the time. You're a busy woman. So I think
Speaker 1: for us, it's marrying these two things, and how do
Speaker 1: we create the most elevated, timeless, comfortable, functional garments that
Speaker 1: we could possibly make for this busy, remarkable woman that
Speaker 1: we dress.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it just I beam with pride every
Speaker 2: time I talk about it, because I know how long
Speaker 2: this has been brewing in your orbit, but how beautifully
Speaker 2: and despite a daily doubt monster that I get. The
Speaker 2: behind the scenes of what you have created is exquisite.
Speaker 2: It is like nothing gets released that hasn't been painstakingly researched,
Speaker 2: like you have gone to literally the ends of the
Speaker 2: earth in an industry that you had never been part
Speaker 2: of to find mills whose supply chain you have complete
Speaker 2: visibility over, and the technical nature of fabrics like I
Speaker 2: thought I understood fast fashion versus slow fashion before, but
Speaker 2: having been alongside and watched you choose fabrics that make
Speaker 2: like it sound, sometimes fashion seems really superficial because it
Speaker 2: just is like what you look like whatever, And then
Speaker 2: you realize, actually, it's so deep, deeply intertwined with your confidence,
Speaker 2: but also with the commodity of time. It's so much
Speaker 2: about time. And you spoke about this in Sydney and
Speaker 2: it blew my mind. I had never thought about the
Speaker 2: fact that we're all looking for happiness and wealth and
Speaker 2: health and blah blah blah. But actually there's lots of
Speaker 2: ways to measure our time on this earth. But actually
Speaker 2: the universal thing that we all have that's we have
Speaker 2: the same amount of that's limited is time. It's time,
Speaker 2: and that's being so weaved into every decision you've made.
Speaker 1: Yeah, time is just the ultimate measure, I think, where
Speaker 1: it is all about how we choose our time, what
Speaker 1: we do with our time.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: That for me, when we talk about that moment in
Speaker 1: the morning getting ready, and I compare myself with our
Speaker 1: colleague or my partner and how it's ten minutes to
Speaker 1: get ready for them, what if it's ten minutes for me?
Speaker 1: And what should that look like? And how can I
Speaker 1: still feel great and powerful and confident but only taking
Speaker 1: tens of time? And I think part of that is
Speaker 1: having that uniform for you. What's your uniform in your mind?
Speaker 1: Or what does that look like over a week. It's
Speaker 1: never going to be as simple as it is for
Speaker 1: how men dress. We have a monthly cycle to deal with, yeah,
Speaker 1: which changes everything from week to week. So that's another
Speaker 1: thing that I'm constantly thinking about. Is, for example, you
Speaker 1: know your last week of your cycle, They're the days
Speaker 1: where you want to have some stretch in your garments.
Speaker 1: You want to have breatheability movement in those days. If
Speaker 1: it's a warm weather, in those days, you want a
Speaker 1: cold hand feel of the fabric.
Speaker 2: And the temperature of fabric.
Speaker 1: The temperature of fabric you need cold hand, feel so
Speaker 1: so much softness in that one week, even the two
Speaker 1: weeks so between nobulation and when you get your period.
Speaker 1: Knowing that when you're getting ready in the morning, there's
Speaker 1: like lots of tricks that we could kind of you know,
Speaker 1: you can plan ahead for you, Like I think, I
Speaker 1: know I'm going to need that type of outfit if
Speaker 1: I'm traveling that week, because I know that I'm going
Speaker 1: to feel like that. You ever have those moments when
Speaker 1: you're traveling and you've packed the wrong thing and I
Speaker 1: wish I had that, Yeah, And that's because of the
Speaker 1: tempt to change your cycle.
Speaker 4: There are so many things at play.
Speaker 1: But then you move into the first part of your
Speaker 1: cycle and then it's like confidence where there I want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want that. I want it to.
Speaker 1: Feel really polished, sharp. Yeah, I don't necessarily care so
Speaker 1: much about stretch. Right now, I can deal with that.
Speaker 1: I can feel strong and powerful without stretching my garment
Speaker 1: on those days. It's a really complicated thought process that
Speaker 1: goes into how we get dressed in the morning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we take it for granted. I think we
Speaker 2: assume we just pick out stuff and then just chuck
Speaker 2: it on. But then watching the way that you have
Speaker 2: considered every touch point of someone's lifestyle in the development
Speaker 2: of each garment, Like the fact that there's washable silk,
Speaker 2: Like I didn't buy silk before you because I was, like,
Speaker 2: you have to dry clean it every time you have to.
Speaker 2: You can't. Like the way that you steam it, like
Speaker 2: you can't iron it, blah blah blah. And then like
Speaker 2: the non crushed fabrics, like ironing and steaming and dry
Speaker 2: cleaning is the bane of my existence, and that you
Speaker 2: often sacrifice the clean cut of a look of something
Speaker 2: because I'm like, I won't do silk, I won't do whatever,
Speaker 2: I won't do woolves because they peel or whatever exactly.
Speaker 2: It kind of removed all those obstacles from exquisite fashion.
Speaker 2: I mean, ironing is something I think that just has
Speaker 2: to go. Yeah, like we can make beautifully cut pieces
Speaker 2: and not iron.
Speaker 1: I even believe that, for you know, years, fifty years
Speaker 1: even more, men's shirts have got so much more technology
Speaker 1: in them to be iron free, non iron but not
Speaker 1: in women's shirts. And how just kills me because I
Speaker 1: think there's nothing better than a woman in like a crisp,
Speaker 1: wide blue striped shirt.
Speaker 4: Just really crisp, lovely. It's very classic.
Speaker 1: It's very elegant and easy, and we have so many
Speaker 1: options to my shirts. They're everywhere, but no one wants
Speaker 1: to iron their shirt.
Speaker 2: They're high maintenance, high maintenance. I remember you had a
Speaker 2: beautiful herring bone shirt when you were I think it
Speaker 2: was like one of the earliest times I've ever seen you.
Speaker 2: That would have been corporate Freehills days. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: was like, mate, I just saw you in trackies like
Speaker 2: gray on gray with food stains and this clean cuts this,
Speaker 2: but it was like elevated, like it just transformed. It's
Speaker 2: very transforming. A white any type of shirt really I love.
Speaker 2: But the effort that went into that shirt.
Speaker 1: Effort had time now once once and then it's.
Speaker 2: Done one and done one.
Speaker 1: And so that's the men's tailor that we work with
Speaker 1: on our shirts. And there's so much technology that goes
Speaker 1: into this that you can't even We just don't see
Speaker 1: it when we're just buying something off the rack. But
Speaker 1: what makes a shirt super wrinkly. There's a few things.
Speaker 1: So there's like the fabric and then there's the seams,
Speaker 1: so you put it in the wash. The cotton and
Speaker 1: the seams will pucker, get smaller, get bigger, and that
Speaker 1: will course it wrinkles. And then there's the fabric too
Speaker 1: that'll just depending on what fabric is, it'll wrinkle or
Speaker 1: it won't. And we've selected these fabrics that are low wrinkle.
Speaker 1: And the maker actually puts in special fusings in the
Speaker 1: seams so that the seams don't fuse the same with
Speaker 1: the packets, so the collars and the cuffs. So we
Speaker 1: have a shirt that we can sell that you can
Speaker 1: put in the wash and hang it up after on
Speaker 1: a hanger and you can wear it.
Speaker 2: There's no ironing. I literally like I want to marry you.
Speaker 4: I need more of these.
Speaker 2: No ironing iron It's got to go.
Speaker 1: And it's only really now like after having kids kids
Speaker 1: and your to do list becomes immense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your wardrobe is so low priority, especially with little kids,
Speaker 2: that we need to be winning those minutes everywhere, Like
Speaker 2: how can we win those minutes in our day? That's
Speaker 2: how we win the minutes. Legit, look at this, this
Speaker 2: is my like filthy nursing bra. You look beautiful. I
Speaker 2: won the minute because this was on a hangar and
Speaker 2: I just threw it on gorgeous like but no shit.
Speaker 2: That is a real life example. I went from like
Speaker 2: zero to hero in fourteen and a half seconds because
Speaker 2: of these fabric good I'm glad, like my best friend created.
Speaker 2: This blows my mind. I don't know how the doubt
Speaker 2: monster like you are just like incredible, Oh like incredible.
Speaker 2: Do you look now at what you have created, now
Speaker 2: that you've done a few collections and know that there
Speaker 2: are incredibly discerning people who wear a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of corporate ware, who can have access to any
Speaker 2: brand that they like, and they choose yours now repeatedly
Speaker 2: that you've been around for so long, like proper, like
Speaker 2: like the governor general proper which amazing corporate like important
Speaker 2: people whose suits and appearance really matters and who are
Speaker 2: incredibly busy. How does that feel now knowing they choose
Speaker 2: your stuff? Like like, it's not us just rebuying it
Speaker 2: was you went straight to strangers paying money.
Speaker 1: It's always so flattering, And whenever someone comes back and
Speaker 1: does their wardrobe haul, I'm just always so flattered, and
Speaker 1: I'm it's always a nice reminder that something's working and
Speaker 1: that we can always get better and grow from where
Speaker 1: we are. There's not a lot of I guess sitting
Speaker 1: around and thinking and reflecting and ceting, celebrating.
Speaker 2: Really yet that's the really hard part of it business.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I think we're constantly kind of trying
Speaker 1: to refine the offering and finding new technologies to bring
Speaker 1: to women. One that is kind of top of mind
Speaker 1: at the moment is I've got a bit of a
Speaker 1: bug bear with polyester.
Speaker 2: As you might know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that you get like a.
Speaker 2: B in your bonnet and then you're like, I'm just
Speaker 2: I'm going to fix this for women everywhere, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I love you.
Speaker 1: My polyester bugbear is a lot more I guess about
Speaker 1: microplastics in the ocean, and it's also it's such a
Speaker 1: big issue.
Speaker 2: Every time you watch.
Speaker 1: Something with polyester, it's releasing microplastics in the ocean and
Speaker 1: we're really hurting our sea life. And I think we're
Speaker 1: very accustomed to buying polyester now because of fast fashion,
Speaker 1: and there's a certain price point that comes with that.
Speaker 1: So there's a what I really hope for going like
Speaker 1: going forward, is how can we continue to offer all
Speaker 1: of the functionality things like with stretches, distance, but also
Speaker 1: in natural fibers. So how do we keep leaning into wool,
Speaker 1: teaching people about how beautiful wool is, how you can
Speaker 1: wear wool. I'm wearing a wool jacket on a forty
Speaker 1: degree day in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: I actually haven't had to delayer. We haven't have we yet, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's breathable. Yeah, and I'm not even that shiny.
Speaker 2: I don't think we're both shiny. Were a real life example.
Speaker 2: We are literally walking bill walls right now. You're the
Speaker 2: best billboard on the most beautiful billboard.
Speaker 1: So I think teaching about wool those learning more about
Speaker 1: natural fibers and going back to that space of quality
Speaker 1: of a quantity. Learning a lot from men's wear too.
Speaker 1: Men really invest in pieces that they wear over a
Speaker 1: long time. We women, we do like fashion, which I
Speaker 1: think is normal, but I think there's a lot more
Speaker 1: to say that we can do get more longevity out
Speaker 1: of more investment pieces in our wardrobes.
Speaker 2: I think we're moving back to the staple wardrobe. We
Speaker 2: kind of cycle in, you know a couple of items
Speaker 2: that are more seasonal, but we keep the staple blazers
Speaker 2: and the staple, like, you know, longer term expensive investment pieces.
Speaker 2: I think that's becoming more of a thing rather over
Speaker 2: fast fashion, which is amazing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But another thing that I just want to touch on
Speaker 2: before we finish is, I mean the impossibility of work
Speaker 2: life balance at the start of a business, but also
Speaker 2: with two kids who arrived very close together, and the
Speaker 2: idea that you know you have made some decisions recently,
Speaker 2: that there is a constant conflict between what your business
Speaker 2: needs and what your like wellbeing needs. I can we
Speaker 2: do six collections a year? Probably not? No, do we
Speaker 2: want to? Yes? Would it be great? Amazing? But like there, Yeah,
Speaker 2: what is your take on work life balance and are
Speaker 2: you getting any at the moment? I mean, we have
Speaker 2: many bees to each other at least once a day.
Speaker 2: Gone for women supporting women. Absolutely Ah. I actually I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm really living my best life at the moment.
Speaker 2: Was not hard to say out loud, so hard to
Speaker 2: say this for you. I know I can't live. I
Speaker 2: just said that I deserve it because you have had
Speaker 2: like how many years now, and it was amazing, shit show.
Speaker 2: You're my wonder woman. Every time I complain, I'm like,
Speaker 2: she has two, she has two, shared them close together,
Speaker 2: and a business. And I did my business when I
Speaker 2: had zero, so.
Speaker 1: You have one and a big business too, so like
Speaker 1: that's a lot to juggle.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of juggle, same babe, I don't it Okay,
Speaker 2: So I have probably never felt so fulfilled as I
Speaker 2: am right now, you Daimonia.
Speaker 1: It's always like something that is never constant. It stretches
Speaker 1: and changes every day. Yeah, Like I know for a
Speaker 1: fact that what my sister and I are doing, like
Speaker 1: we are so driven.
Speaker 2: Ashley loves the word ikey guy. I love I'm sure
Speaker 2: you love the guy.
Speaker 1: It's very isn't it. It's exactly sees the A. Isn't
Speaker 1: it finding your what drives you every day?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like your reason to reason to exist, reason
Speaker 2: to be, your reason to be, reason to Japanese guys.
Speaker 2: There's a beautiful book about it, Be a Picky Guy.
Speaker 2: I love that because I feel like I've definitely found
Speaker 2: my ikey guy. You found it, and now it's just
Speaker 2: how do you build?
Speaker 1: I think with a family, it's kind of building process
Speaker 1: and systems and structure and routine. Yeah, which is so
Speaker 1: different to pre kid life because you kind of thrive
Speaker 1: on spontaneity and doing fun things and just traveling here
Speaker 1: at the drop of a hat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but forward to push the boundary because no one
Speaker 2: suffers when you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I think for now there is I have
Speaker 1: a balance. It changes, but there is balance there. But
Speaker 1: because I'm so grounded in what I think we're trying
Speaker 1: to achieve, it you fem with my like so Ash
Speaker 1: and I working together every day for the same purpose.
Speaker 1: And then I have I guess owning your own business
Speaker 1: is good in the sense that I do have some flexibility.
Speaker 2: I can pick my kids.
Speaker 1: Up from KINDI I love them, and I feel like
Speaker 1: I've started to I think you really need to design
Speaker 1: your life the way you want it to be.
Speaker 4: It's like it's a design project.
Speaker 2: It is literally it's an Excel spreadsheets, such as how
Speaker 2: I'm going to optimize. So shifted from Excel spreadsheets.
Speaker 4: To like a big drawing.
Speaker 1: But I think like designing your life, and I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm at a in a phase where we're in
Speaker 1: a nest bubble with little kids two and four, and
Speaker 1: I've got a cute little veggie patch which I love
Speaker 1: and that gives me joy on my Sundays, and I
Speaker 1: chat to you and my other good friends on the
Speaker 1: phone whenever I get a spare moment that we're not
Speaker 1: with kids, and that's.
Speaker 2: Like once a quarter. So yeah, yelling at each other
Speaker 2: through like screaming babies.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's the first time in my life where
Speaker 1: I haven't felt the need for holidays and things like that,
Speaker 1: which is because I feel like I've really designed my
Speaker 1: my life at home.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not to say it's no.
Speaker 1: It is so hard with kids, right, Like it's unbelievably hard,
Speaker 1: but it's still very fulfilling fulfillment.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you found you found your ya.
Speaker 1: You are for now I am seizing my AA and
Speaker 1: I know it's going to change, but for now I am.
Speaker 2: I mean, I need a whole separate episode on working
Speaker 2: with your sister, working with family, more on like the
Speaker 2: fact that I haven't even mentioned that you also tried
Speaker 2: to do medicine at one point. I'll put that in
Speaker 2: the in and out it. There's so much more, and
Speaker 2: then friendship and then friendship evolutions into motherhood, and then
Speaker 2: we could do a whole season baby episode on the
Speaker 2: motherhood juggle. There is so much mother whole juggle is big,
Speaker 2: that's like it deserves we should we should do one
Speaker 2: big because you will also allow me through our chat
Speaker 2: to expose my shoot show, which I don't always let
Speaker 2: all the way out of the bag.
Speaker 4: I need it. We need to let that out.
Speaker 2: I think we need to do and I can't pull
Speaker 2: that out. I think I think we completely think needs
Speaker 2: to hear it. I mean they see it sometimes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just let go of the voice notes just published so much. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that'd be a great a great time. I need like
Speaker 2: at least a five part series within my love, but
Speaker 2: that seems like the perfect place to finish it today
Speaker 2: because I am just I felt like this needed to
Speaker 2: live somewhere, and I'm so so you. I'm so honored
Speaker 2: that you push through the doubt monster today to tell it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, because you're incredible and the journey has been
Speaker 2: amazing and you family's exquisite. Thank you.
Speaker 4: I'm it's just so honored to be here.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I love you.
Speaker 2: It's funny how when you know someone so well, it's
Speaker 2: really easy to forget how brilliant they are, especially when
Speaker 2: you're conversing in baby talk among all your kids climbing
Speaker 2: all over you most of the time. But I I
Speaker 2: really loved hearing this as much the second time as
Speaker 2: I did the first airb is just such an extraordinary
Speaker 2: human being, so talented and doing such amazing things, So
Speaker 2: it's just been amazing to finally be able to sing
Speaker 2: her praises on the show and to convince her that
Speaker 2: it's a story worth telling. Having close friends on the
Speaker 2: show also really exposes my own self doubt and internal chatter,
Speaker 2: which I love because it is too easy to skate
Speaker 2: over that when you curate your own online story, so
Speaker 2: I kind of like that it throws me in the
Speaker 2: deep end a little bit as well. You all know
Speaker 2: it took EB a little bit to quieten the self
Speaker 2: doubt monster for this one, so even more than usual.
Speaker 2: Please share the episode if you enjoyed, tagging at UFM
Speaker 2: dot co, eu p h e M E dot co
Speaker 2: and check out their incredible range at the link in
Speaker 2: the show notes. In the meantime, I hope your year
Speaker 2: is off to a beautiful start, and as always, we
Speaker 2: love having you involved in planning. So if there's anyone
Speaker 2: you want to hear from, or anything you want to
Speaker 2: hear about in any of the segments, please shoot me
Speaker 2: an email or a DM. You may have seen the
Speaker 2: very sad, devastating, so crushing news that our dear Ange
Speaker 2: has moved into State this week. Oh my gosh, I've
Speaker 2: barely spoken about it in this episode just because it's
Speaker 2: too painful. It's just too soon, guys, But rest assured
Speaker 2: she will still be making yeas of our lives appearances,
Speaker 2: whether remotely or of course, we will be visiting each other.
Speaker 2: And yes, you have definitely not heard the last from
Speaker 2: our dear Dear, and seize the baby. We'll be back too.
Speaker 2: He is to a big, bright and beautiful twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: and I hope you
Speaker 3: Are all seizing your ya