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Speaker 1: You're listening to a mother Mia podcast. You blame yourself,

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Speaker 1: you do because you're like, I've been born into this world,

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Speaker 1: I've been given this body. Why aren't you doing what

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Speaker 1: I need you to do? It should be so natural.

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Speaker 2: There's a certain image many of us have of what

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Speaker 2: life is supposed to look like when we fall in love, marriage, travel,

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Speaker 2: a home, maybe children when the time feels right. Well,

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Speaker 2: for Chloe Fisher, most of that dream came true. She

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Speaker 2: met and married the love of her life, Paul Fisher,

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Speaker 2: better known to the world as the DJ Fisher, and

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Speaker 2: together they built this extraordinary, glamorous, joy filled life that

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Speaker 2: most people only ever see on social media. The parties,

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Speaker 2: the tours, the beaches, the big laughs. But behind the

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Speaker 2: posts and the public love story was another story Entirely

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Speaker 2: four years, Chloe and Paul tried desperately to have a baby.

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Speaker 2: Their journey was marked by IVF, miscarriage, and loss after loss,

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Speaker 2: until their hearts were so broken they weren't sure how

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Speaker 2: to keep going. In this conversation, we talk about how

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Speaker 2: Chloe held on too love through grief, and what it's

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Speaker 2: like to keep showing up for each other when your

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Speaker 2: dreams keep falling. Apart. We talk about her deep and

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Speaker 2: lovely friendship with Elid Pullen, whose own story of loss

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Speaker 2: and motherhood forged a bond that helped them both survive,

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Speaker 2: and what it means to find light again after years

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Speaker 2: of darkness. And we talk about joy because today Chloe

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Speaker 2: is the mum of her daughter Bobby, and she's pregnant again.

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Speaker 2: She's living proof that love and hope can return even

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Speaker 2: after everything you thought was lost. Here is Chloe Fisher

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Speaker 2: your book, which is such a beautiful book, by the way,

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Speaker 2: always you, Thank you, and a lot of it's unexpected

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Speaker 2: because it's also a great resource for women who are

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Speaker 2: having fertility issues or have But also you are very

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Speaker 2: philosophical in it about things that are meant to be

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Speaker 2: and things that are not meant to be. And I

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Speaker 2: often think it's easy for people to talk about painful

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Speaker 2: things when they've had a happy outcome. But you were

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Speaker 2: talking about great, deep soul life pain when you were

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Speaker 2: not assured of a happy outcome. I find that interesting

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Speaker 2: And what drove you to do that?

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's a crazy question. I just got four boody

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Speaker 1: goose bumps. I'm going to probably cry this podcast, by

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Speaker 1: the way, I'm so emotional in this pregnancy, but.

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Speaker 2: I'm very pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that's that question is actually a heavy hitter

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Speaker 1: because there were for sure times where I thought it's

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Speaker 1: not going to happen, Like it's not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: And it went on for four years, and I definitely

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Speaker 1: I always had this belief and I always had this

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Speaker 1: deep down gut feeling that it would happen. But never

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Speaker 1: in a million years would I expect the road that

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Speaker 1: I traveled. And you know, I feel like when I

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Speaker 1: got on the podcast, it was almost it was never

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Speaker 1: going to be an easy fix because Elerdie, my podcast partner,

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Speaker 1: sadly lost her partner, and you know, we kind of

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Speaker 1: started around that and I was just studying my fertility

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Speaker 1: journey really around that point.

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Speaker 2: And was that around the time lad was also having

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Speaker 2: Chumpy's baby.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So we lost Chumpy and then about six or

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Speaker 1: twelve months later we started the podcast because we were like,

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about this, and we need to

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Speaker 1: talk about these really heavy topics. And then she did

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Speaker 1: retrieved his sperm through post mortem sperm retrieval, and then

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Speaker 1: she started IVF and it was around the same time

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Speaker 1: that we did start IVF together. But yeah, look, it's

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Speaker 1: a funny one because thinking about that question in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: if I would have known that my journey was going

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Speaker 1: to be the way that it was, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I would have talked about it, because I really

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Speaker 1: did think. I didn't think that it was going to

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Speaker 1: pan out the way that it did. It's a funny

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Speaker 1: one because as it evolved, I just I became more

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Speaker 1: and more invested in the more I spoke about it

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Speaker 1: in real time. And it's crazy because you know, we

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Speaker 1: don't I'm not on the podcast every single week at

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Speaker 1: the moment, just because I just needed a break. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I would never speak the way that I

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Speaker 1: speak now back then, Like back then we were so

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Speaker 1: not that we're not raw. Now, I think I'm just

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Speaker 1: like more ahead when I'm thinking, rather than just getting

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Speaker 1: on there and just spilling. Because we were recording everything

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Speaker 1: in real time as it was happening, Like I had

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Speaker 1: a miscarriage, We'd get on and record an episode the

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Speaker 1: next day and record that heaviness, and you know it

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Speaker 1: was Eli is trying to support me. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: support her through grief, and it just became this we

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Speaker 1: just it became us and it kind of has become

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Speaker 1: my purpose over time.

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Speaker 2: Well. It's also I find it unusual in like a

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Speaker 2: modern woman, and you're very modern woman, that you always

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Speaker 2: had this calling to be a mom. It's very unusual.

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Speaker 2: I think I certainly didn't have it. My daughter doesn't

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Speaker 2: have it. But from a very young age, you were

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Speaker 2: always like, I want to be a mom. You wrote

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Speaker 2: in your book about doing the time capsule with your girlfriends,

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Speaker 2: the six of you who are still really close, yes,

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Speaker 2: and where you would see yourself five years from then,

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Speaker 2: and what had you written?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'll be the first one to haven't had a family.

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Speaker 1: It was a no brainer. It was something that every

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Speaker 1: single one of my friends they were like, yeah, Chloe,

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Speaker 1: Like not that I'm not career driven, but I always

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Speaker 1: knew I just wanted to be a mother. And my

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Speaker 1: mom has I'm one of four, so she's been a mom,

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Speaker 1: you know since I can remember, obviously, but she hasn't

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Speaker 1: had like a full on job. Yeah, she hasn't had

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Speaker 1: a full on job. And I always just saw myself

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Speaker 1: as that, Like I really did see myself as being

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Speaker 1: a mum. And I we were never taught in school

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Speaker 1: that it might be, it might be hard, or it

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Speaker 1: might be difficult for some people. We just we weren't

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Speaker 1: taught about that, and we weren't taught about how things work.

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Speaker 1: It worked, and I was pretty young, you know, like

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Speaker 1: Paul and I met when I was twenty and he

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Speaker 1: was twenty seven, and you know, we spoke of kids

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Speaker 1: all the time. I think that I was obviously much

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Speaker 1: more keen on kids than he was. But eventually, over time,

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Speaker 1: you know, he was like, no, this is what I want.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, one friend would fall pregnant, and

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Speaker 1: another friend would fall pregnant, and then we fell pregnant

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Speaker 1: actually for the very first time on our wedding, at

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Speaker 1: our wedding, not at the wedding, after the wedding.

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Speaker 2: Well, very close to the wedding, because it was it

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Speaker 2: was a honeymoon pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was literally on that trip and well.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say that was also marred by

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Speaker 2: you know, I was saying earlier that so much of

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Speaker 2: your life is marked by beautiful winds and really painful losses,

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Speaker 2: and that happened with your grandmother on that trip as well,

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Speaker 2: on your wedding trip.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a really tough part of the story

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Speaker 1: for me to write with Ali, and it was even

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Speaker 1: harder to actually read. I think that that that part

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Speaker 1: got me and I still think every time I read

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Speaker 1: that part, I will become quite upset. You know, it

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Speaker 1: brings up so much guilt. I always think about, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I didn't get married, or if my wedding wasn't

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Speaker 1: in Bali, maybe she'd still be alive. You know, So your.

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Speaker 2: Grandma had a heart episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it wasn't at my wedding. It was like

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Speaker 1: a day or two after. And she'd always had respiratory issues,

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Speaker 1: but she was like, I'm not missing my first grandchild's wedding,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm going. My pop stayed home in Australia because

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Speaker 1: he wasn't well enough to travel. But I really I

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Speaker 1: think that she must have been one of the first

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Speaker 1: people in Bali to get COVID before anyone knew about it,

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Speaker 1: because this was on the twentieth of February twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: and then the borders shut down on the seventh of

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Speaker 1: March and we were still kind of like all there

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Speaker 1: at that point, and I just don't think, you know,

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Speaker 1: she had these respiratory issues. We called the ambulance the

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Speaker 1: hotel oxygen system was faulty, so she wasn't able to

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Speaker 1: get oxygen, and the traffic, if you know Bali, is horrific.

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Speaker 1: So the ambulance took quite a long time to arrive,

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Speaker 1: and then sadly, she passed away in the ambulance to

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Speaker 1: the hospital because she wasn't she just didn't have oxygen,

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Speaker 1: and they put it down to a heart attack in

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Speaker 1: the end. But yeah, I was at the other end

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Speaker 1: when the ambulance pulled up to the hospital and I

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Speaker 1: remember them opening the doors and I just looked at

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Speaker 1: her and I'm like, oh my god, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I actually cannot believe that this is Like Paul didn't

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Speaker 1: even pause him with me because I'm like, don't worry,

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Speaker 1: she's probably a little unwell, but like I'll go with

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Speaker 1: my sisters and we'll just make sure she's okay. And

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Speaker 1: I called him straight away. I'm like, this is not good.

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Speaker 1: This is really bad. And so she was told my

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Speaker 1: pop that morning and he booked her on the first

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Speaker 1: flight home to Australia, so she was meant to leave

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Speaker 1: that night and then the next phone call that he

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Speaker 1: got from us was that she'd passed away. And you

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Speaker 1: can only imagine that. Yeah, and then I found out

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Speaker 1: I was pregnant.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so then of course there's a silver lining

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Speaker 2: on what has been a very dark cloud. And yet

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Speaker 2: again that was not to be.

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Speaker 1: That was my first miscarriage. Can't remember exactly how old

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Speaker 1: I was, but at the time, I was like, that's

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Speaker 1: so weird. I'm so young. Why am I having a miscarriage?

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Speaker 2: You know, well, that is and because of course it's

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Speaker 2: become a very common experience for women now to have

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Speaker 2: fertility issues. And yet the prevailing wisdom in the world

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Speaker 2: is that you've spend so long trying not to get

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Speaker 2: pregnant exactly, that the world hasn't really caught up yet,

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Speaker 2: aside from IVF clinics who were cleaning up, but hasn't

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Speaker 2: caught up with the fact that now there are all

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Speaker 2: these attendant issues with fertility and women.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I find myself scratching my head a lot about

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Speaker 1: that because always seems to remind me like, he wasn't

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Speaker 1: like this back in my day. But it's weird, it

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Speaker 1: really is, like, and I find, you know, the IVF

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Speaker 1: clinics like can't even keep up that many people need

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Speaker 1: fertility assistance and it's sad, and it's expensive, and it seems,

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Speaker 1: you know, something that should be so natural. And there

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Speaker 1: are so many beautiful families in the world that would

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Speaker 1: do anything, anything to have a baby, and you know

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Speaker 1: they might not be in a position that they can

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Speaker 1: do it, and that you know, then there's people that

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Speaker 1: fell pregnant that are not so much wanting a kid,

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Speaker 1: and it seriously breaks my heart. And you know, at

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Speaker 1: some point in my life, I would like to start

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Speaker 1: some sort of a charity for families who.

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Speaker 2: Need to go through that process.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when I find time with your speech time, because

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Speaker 1: there's already swim where there's your building company, there's your

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Speaker 1: your husband's career and dejaying, there's your baby Bobby, and

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Speaker 1: there's another baby Moni's way as we speak. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: know I've got a problem. There's a lot going on

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Speaker 1: in my life.

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Speaker 2: Well, sooner or later, I think, Yeah, it'll sort itself

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Speaker 2: out at some way. At some point, I think when

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Speaker 2: you embark on a big life, there are points at

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Speaker 2: which you go, oh, there's a wrong way, turn back sign.

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Speaker 2: But you're not one to see a wrong way turn

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Speaker 2: back sign and turn back.

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Speaker 1: I know I'm working on that. I am pretty good

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Speaker 1: at saying no. That's what I've been working on over

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Speaker 1: the years. You know, I have to say no. I

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Speaker 1: can't say yes to everything. But yeah, I think once

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Speaker 1: the next baby comes along, I will for sure be

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Speaker 1: able to, you know, pull up the handbrake a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to you know, it's going to be an

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Speaker 1: interesting family dynamic with the two under two and living

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Speaker 1: on the road. So interesting.

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Speaker 2: But you know, how does your husband feel about it?

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Speaker 2: Because he's also had a huge trajectory from when you

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Speaker 2: first met as as sort of carefree. He was a

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Speaker 2: surfer boy, you were a cheeky winker.

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Speaker 1: In a bar. Yeah. He when I found out that

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Speaker 1: I was pregnant with the second one, he was like,

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. And then just recently he's like, I want

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Speaker 1: eight kids. I'm like, we won't be having eight. I'm

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Speaker 1: really sorry. You know, we are so obsessed with Bobby.

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Speaker 1: You know, we work so hard to get her and

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Speaker 1: it was a really long time and she's the joy

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Speaker 1: in our life. Like she is hands down the best

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Speaker 1: thing that's ever happened to us. And you know, we're

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Speaker 1: adaptable and we're just and you know, we've just we

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Speaker 1: do spend half our time in Obeza, usually from June

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Speaker 1: through October. So I have never really done you know,

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Speaker 1: I've had babysitting help here and there, and I've never

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Speaker 1: really done the nanny full time thing because I've always

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Speaker 1: just thought, you know, I've wanted this for so long,

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Speaker 1: like this is my job, this is my calling, this

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Speaker 1: is what I meant to be doing. But we have

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Speaker 1: had to get help next year because I was just thinking,

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Speaker 1: He's like, you're going to be breastfeeding. How are you

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Speaker 1: going to have a crazy one and a half year

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Speaker 1: old two year old running around while you're trying to breastfeed?

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Speaker 1: And I you know, Paul does still go on the road.

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Speaker 1: I don't go. I haven't really gone on the road

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Speaker 1: as much consistently. I'll pick a base, stay there. He

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Speaker 1: would travel in and out between, yeah, Australia, La and Ibiza.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm for sure going to need some help.

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Speaker 1: And learning to get help is also another thing because

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Speaker 1: I'm very organized and I'm very not controlling, but I

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Speaker 1: find it really hard to delegate tasks.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but it's essential because the anchor of your life

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Speaker 2: is you and Fisher, and I think it's it's calling

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Speaker 2: that you have as well that you need to be

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Speaker 2: with your husband.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he is seriously the We're very lucky what

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Speaker 1: we have. You know, I think it doesn't come around

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Speaker 1: every day, the type of relationship that we have. We're

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Speaker 1: very supportive, and you know, he's just taught me. He

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Speaker 1: works his absolute ass off, and like, I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: inspired by me and I'm inspired by him. And it's

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Speaker 1: we do have this like really amazing ebb and flow

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Speaker 1: in which I've got along with the ride for his

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Speaker 1: career and you know, I've had some pretty exciting peaks

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Speaker 1: in my career recently, and like we're just kind of

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Speaker 1: like learning to do that dance of like whose turn

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Speaker 1: it is to peak and whose turn it is to babysit? Ye, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's great because we just love being together.

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Speaker 2: When you first met him and you were twenty and

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Speaker 2: you were in Bali and you were on a girl's trip,

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Speaker 2: he was there on a surfing trip. Yeah, and you'd

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Speaker 2: seen him the day before, you'd clocked him. Yeah, tell

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Speaker 2: me about that night when you connected.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I'd always been in the surfing industry because

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Speaker 1: my best friend Laura, she's a professional surfar. My brother

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Speaker 1: is a surfer and he was on the tour, and

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Speaker 1: so i'd kind of seen him, not him around, because

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Speaker 1: he was never on the tour that my brother was on,

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Speaker 1: but i'd seen videos because he was a bit of Alaric,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he used to make his own videos

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Speaker 1: and that's what he was known for, this crazy guy.

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Speaker 1: So I recognized his face the day before I was

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Speaker 1: I had actually been in a long term relationship out

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Speaker 1: of high school with my high school sweetheart for a

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Speaker 1: few years before that, and we had just split up

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Speaker 1: because we're like, we're so young, let's go and explore

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Speaker 1: and see what happens and if we're drawn together again

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Speaker 1: later than we are. But so this was my very

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Speaker 1: first girl's trip away. And then that night, we're at

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Speaker 1: a bar called Alley Kats in Poppy's Lane in Coutera.

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Speaker 1: If you know that bar, you know it's pretty.

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Speaker 2: Gross in the thick of it.

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Speaker 1: In the thick of it. And I was sitting at

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Speaker 1: one side of the bar with all my girlfriends, just drinking,

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Speaker 1: and he was at the other side of the bar

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Speaker 1: with a few boys that I knew from Marubra. And

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Speaker 1: I do remember this and it's so cringe, but I

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00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,320
Speaker 1: do remember looking at him and I don't know why

305
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Speaker 1: I did it, but I like did the head nod,

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Speaker 1: like hey with my head, and I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: I must have been very confident and had a few

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Speaker 1: drinks that night, and I he reckons he was just

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Speaker 1: not drinking that night. He was just having meatballs for dinner,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, who is this girl? And anyone else

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Speaker 1: see that that girl over there? Give me the nod.

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Speaker 1: And then seriously, half an hour later I was at

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Speaker 1: their table talking them because I knew some of his

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Speaker 1: friends and them were on the cooter surfboard down the street.

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Speaker 1: Then we're at the Bounty and then that old trip,

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Speaker 1: like we were really inseparable. I mean, I think I

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Speaker 1: met him and I was like, yeah, you're fine. We

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Speaker 1: just had the best n i'd ever got, like I've

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Speaker 1: got a girl's trip ahead of me. And he just

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Speaker 1: kept on. This is before iPhones or anything. Like he

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00:18:17,399 --> 00:18:19,279
Speaker 1: had a BlackBerry. I swear to god, he had a

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Speaker 1: full BlackBerry with all the letters on it didn't have

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Speaker 1: any messages. Yeah, exactly. Well, it was back in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, so it was quite a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: I think I got him Instagram on that trip actually

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Speaker 1: because I was like, we're gonna have to contact somehow,

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Speaker 1: and then yeah, we just kept on running into each other.

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Speaker 1: And he then went from Bali to Hawaii at the

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Speaker 1: end of the year and was in the surfing competitions

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Speaker 1: over there. My brother was over there, my friend Laura

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Speaker 1: was over there, and I remember telling my brother before

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Speaker 1: he went on that trip, I said, yeah, I met

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Speaker 1: this guy in Bali and his name's Poor Fisher and

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00:18:55,399 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 1: port Cooper said, Nah, hopefully it's not the Poor Fisher

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Speaker 1: that I know, and Laura said the exact same thing,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I think it is. But I

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00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 1: saw a difference him and I still to this day

338
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 1: do see a different side of him, like to what

339
00:19:08,919 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 1: everyone else sees. You know. He yes, he is finn

340
00:19:12,879 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 1: and loud and crazy and Alarican, but he's seriously the softest,

341
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,919
Speaker 1: most kind hearted, loving family oriente like I struggle to

342
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 1: getting out to socialize. I swear to God when we're

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Speaker 1: home because he just wants to be with us. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: he said say to Laura that trip. I met him

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Speaker 1: in the June. This was in the November, and he said,

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Speaker 1: I'll marry that girl one day. And I'm like, that's

347
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 1: a big call to say that after knowing someone that

348
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 1: we live in different countries, but he reckons he said

349
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Speaker 1: that to Laura. She remembers it, so yeah.

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Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere. After the break, Chloe shares how taking

351
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,439
Speaker 2: a big risk and a chance on love changed everything

352
00:19:53,639 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 2: for her and Paul, I thought this is so romantic,

353
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Speaker 2: so romantic when he came back to surprise you and

354
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Speaker 2: turned up at your girlfriend's house.

355
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so that was that was after this trip,

356
00:20:13,879 --> 00:20:16,199
Speaker 1: so the November. So we just spoke every day. But

357
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,999
Speaker 1: he lived in La or in California surfing and I

358
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,759
Speaker 1: lived in Australia. I was working at ACP Magazines at

359
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: the time, and I was like, this is just never

360
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: going to work. But we were so drawn to each

361
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: other that we just it was so natural. We just

362
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: loved speaking with each other. And he said to me

363
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Speaker 1: one day, I'm going pig hunting for a few days,

364
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Speaker 1: so you're not going to hear from me. I'm going

365
00:20:36,679 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 1: out into the bush in Hawaii, so like I'm not

366
00:20:38,919 --> 00:20:41,400
Speaker 1: going to be able to speak to you. And I said, oh, okay, cool, yep,

367
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Speaker 1: no worries, go for it. And he asked my brother

368
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: for our dress to send me flowers for Christmas. Turns

369
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Speaker 1: out he was just getting the address because he just

370
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Speaker 1: went straight to the airport and got on the next

371
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Speaker 1: flight to Sydney and turned up on my mum and

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Speaker 1: dad's doorstep that next morning and was like, I'm here

373
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Speaker 1: to see Chloe and my family. My mom was like,

374
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Speaker 1: who are you? Yeah, and I hadn't made it home

375
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: from work yet, so Mum's calling me, what are you doing?

376
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: What are you doing? I'm not coming home, going to

377
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: Laura's for dinner. So she actually had to bring him

378
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Speaker 1: to Laura's and was like, I don't know what to

379
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: do with this guy, but like, he's here to see Chloe.

380
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Speaker 1: Apparently you know him. Can he hang here? And so yeah,

381
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Speaker 1: I went to Laura's to pick her up for dinner,

382
00:21:22,919 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 1: and sure enough I walked into the house and he

383
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: was there to surprise me. And we really have been

384
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: together ever since. We did long distance for a really

385
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Speaker 1: long time.

386
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Speaker 2: And then you went to the States with him.

387
00:21:36,159 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I had like another big trip planned for

388
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Speaker 1: some of the girls twenty firsts, and we went there

389
00:21:42,679 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: in the May of the following year, and I just decided,

390
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,479
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just going to book a one

391
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 1: way ticket and I quit my job, took the risk, broke.

392
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: I got there, he lost his job, Both of us broke.

393
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: Well when I started, what was his job?

394
00:22:00,879 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 1: Then he was sponsored for surfing. Yeah, he was answered

395
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: by the shoe bran Reef all right. So honestly, within

396
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 1: weeks of me arriving, he got let down, like let

397
00:22:12,399 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: go from the team and that's when he started Djane.

398
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 1: He'd always been Djane, but not like making a career

399
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 1: of it and putting his head down. So he started. Yeah,

400
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: back in like twenty fourteen, seriously, he was in a

401
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: duo called Cut Snake with another Aussie guy, and then

402
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: a few years later he separated from that duo and

403
00:22:33,639 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: started Fisher.

404
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: Now, this I think is very good to hear, because

405
00:22:38,399 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 2: I think there's a real tendency to look at people's

406
00:22:41,399 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 2: lives and they look so perfect and in retrospect everything

407
00:22:45,159 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 2: seems like it's been a clear path. But at the

408
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,959
Speaker 2: time it was not a clear path. You were just

409
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 2: too broke Aussies having a tilt at something overseas. Really

410
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 2: you didn't know each other that well, I guess, Yeah,

411
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 2: though you did feel that intense connection.

412
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was actually quite hard for me at the start,

413
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: because I, like I said at the beginning, I'm such

414
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,039
Speaker 1: a homebody. So the uncertainty for me, I really struggled with,

415
00:23:13,879 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: like when am I going home to Australia, What's next?

416
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: Like and yeah, that is something that I really found hard.

417
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: He like that. And I also didn't have a job,

418
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: and I couldn't work in America because I didn't have

419
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: a working visa. So that's when I started working on

420
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 1: my swimwear label, which I owned for seven or eight years.

421
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,719
Speaker 1: I actually just sold it before our wedding in twenty twenty,

422
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: and so I made and designed and manufactured swimwear because

423
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: I was like, I got to do something. I can't

424
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: sit back and I would never expect anyone to support me.

425
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: So I honestly we lived off nothing like I actually

426
00:23:50,639 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: don't even know how we made money, because you know,

427
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: when he was in the duo, you get like a

428
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: couple of thousand dollars and you split that by two

429
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: and then you have to pay for your accommodation, your flights,

430
00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: you travel like and yeah, so you know, we are

431
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: very We lived down in Oceanside in California and ate

432
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: baked beans on toast for dinner, two minute noodles. Lived

433
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: with my mum and dad when we'd come back to Australia,

434
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: and he wo, he always reminds me of that, you know,

435
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: He's like, I can't believe I'm a thirty year old

436
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: man living with my girlfriend's parents in the front room

437
00:24:23,159 --> 00:24:25,959
Speaker 1: at their house with three other siblings and a dog.

438
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: It's just like, it's quite funny to look back on,

439
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: but we did it.

440
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: I guess though. The through line, the through line with

441
00:24:32,919 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 2: both of you is you're both very family oriented people,

442
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: and I take that to refer to your extended family

443
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 2: as well, that you or your chosen family are friends

444
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 2: who you travel with and you've navigated so much of

445
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: life with. Was there a moment where you said to Paul,

446
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: I want to start our own family.

447
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think naturally. The closer we got to getting married,

448
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: I was sort of just like, oh, we should, you know,

449
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: we should just wait because I kind of want to

450
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: fit my wedding dress and like, let's just get past

451
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,999
Speaker 1: the wedding. And that was just in my mind. But

452
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: I was only speaking of to someone about this the

453
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: other day, like we'd never in our whole relationship ever

454
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: really I think probably at the beginning I was on

455
00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: the pill, but other than that, there was no contraception.

456
00:25:19,879 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: But I didn't realize it was. I thought it was

457
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 1: kind of hard to fell pregnant, like, and people that

458
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: I tell now, they're like, you never used any sort

459
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: of contraception for like seven years and you never felt pregnant,

460
00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, but I just I didn't

461
00:25:35,159 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: even think to look into it, like how does it work?

462
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: You know? So when we naturally felt pregnant at our wedding,

463
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, how easy was that?

464
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,279
Speaker 1: Like that was just the easiest thing ever. And then

465
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: it was just like all downhill from there until it

466
00:25:49,159 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: became uppealing twenty twenty four.

467
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 2: And that first loss. How was that? And how was

468
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 2: that for your relationship?

469
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a shock. I actually, you know, I

470
00:26:01,679 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: remember it really clearly because I told all my friends.

471
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: It was actually a weird one because it was during

472
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: COVID as well, so you couldn't have partners in scanned.

473
00:26:11,159 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: You couldn't have partners like anywhere around you, So it

474
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: was a very isolating experience, and you know, the partners

475
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: struggle just as much like emagency, like dropping your partner

476
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: in the front of a doctor's surgery or a hospital

477
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: to go and have a DNC by yourself, and you

478
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,759
Speaker 1: just sit in the car and wait for her to

479
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: come out, and wait for her to walk out of there.

480
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: Like it was really tough, and I was really I

481
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: was very hesitant to share my experience. We've obviously got

482
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: a platform on social media that we have a strong following,

483
00:26:46,879 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: and that was all organic through you know, like our

484
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: travels and his career and you know, just bits and

485
00:26:52,159 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: pieces that we've done. So it was a bit scary

486
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,999
Speaker 1: and daunting because our audiences were so big. And just

487
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: one day after, I was sort of in recovery mode,

488
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, I'm going to talk about

489
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: this because I'm feeling pretty low and I'm feeling pretty down,

490
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: and maybe this might make me feel a little bit better,

491
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: to get it off my chest. And that was sort

492
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: of a turning point when I did that, the influx

493
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: of messages, it really made me feel less alone, absolutely

494
00:27:23,879 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: because when I spoke of it, the amount of people

495
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 1: that messaged me and said that they had had a miscarriage,

496
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: friends that I never knew about. I was like, oh

497
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 1: my god, this is way too common. Why are people

498
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: not talking about this more?

499
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: Okay, So, Chloe, why do you think that is that

500
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:51,519
Speaker 2: there is such a silence from women about pregnancy loss.

501
00:27:52,159 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: Honestly, I actually just I wonder if it's because if

502
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: you talk about it, then you feel a little bit

503
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: like you feel like a little bit like you're a victim.

504
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, poor me. You don't want to kind

505
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,999
Speaker 1: of like make people feel sorry for you because you

506
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: know you're going through it, but for me, And it's

507
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: a weird thing too, it is, it is, it is,

508
00:28:14,679 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: but it isn't weird to talk about. Like I find

509
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: it easy to talk about now because because I've been

510
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: speaking about it for so long, But it's very emotional,

511
00:28:23,879 --> 00:28:26,999
Speaker 1: and sometimes maybe people don't want to like open up

512
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: the wounds again, perhaps because you know you go through it,

513
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,759
Speaker 1: you want to go through that. You know, you go

514
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: through the ups and the downs and all of that

515
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,999
Speaker 1: alone pretty much or with your partner or with your family.

516
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: But by the end of my journey, when I had

517
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: my fourth miscarriage, I was almost not wanting to tell

518
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: people because I was like, I don't want people to

519
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,999
Speaker 1: feel sorry for me anymore. So over people like getting

520
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: upset as well my family would get really upset. My

521
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: mom was just beside herself and she struggled so much,

522
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: and so like I would be like, oh my god,

523
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to have this. Like people would get

524
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: win that. I was like, you know, having a bleed,

525
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: and then they check in on you every day, and

526
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: like it's amazing, it's beautiful, but it's a lot. Sometimes

527
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: it's just easier to go through that alone, you know,

528
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: because sometimes the emotions of others actually weigh you down

529
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: as well, even though it's coming from a good place.

530
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: That's true. And also I think a girlfriend of mine

531
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: said to me once, who'd had three miscarriages, She said

532
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: to me, I feel so ashamed and that it's illogical.

533
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: We know it's illogical, but when anyone who's experienced anything

534
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 2: with their body betraying them in a way that you

535
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,759
Speaker 2: don't expect your body to is familiar. I think with

536
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: that sensation, yeah, with that feeling, and also with pregnancy, there's,

537
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: like you alluded to before as well, there's the partner.

538
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: So did you ever have the sense or did you

539
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: ever have the conversation with Paul as you had these

540
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,719
Speaker 2: ensuing miscarriages that you were taking him into a life

541
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,279
Speaker 2: where he might not be able to be a father.

542
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I for sure had. There was a few really

543
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: low moments in the journey where I was thinking, you really,

544
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: you blame yourself? You do because you're like, I've been

545
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: born into this world, I've been given this body. Why

546
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: aren't you doing what I need you to do? It

547
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: should be so natural, And in our case, we didn't

548
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: really have answers for a very long time. So I

549
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,799
Speaker 1: was always I mean, at the end of the day,

550
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: he was like, I'm here to support you whatever happens,

551
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,239
Speaker 1: Like I know, even if it becomes at the end

552
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: of the line and we end up adopting a child,

553
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: Like I knew that we would get a child at

554
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: some point. That was a no brainer for me. But yeah,

555
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: it was so so upsetting watching him. I think it

556
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: was the third miscarriage. We lost a set of twins

557
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: and he canceled like these big string of shows over season,

558
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: like what I did at the start, and with my

559
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,279
Speaker 1: first miscarriage. He actually was debating whether or not to

560
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: talk about it on social media, like he's got two

561
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: million followers or whatever, and he was like, oh my god,

562
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,479
Speaker 1: do I do this? And I think it is this

563
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,279
Speaker 1: weird sense of being ashamed, like people are almost embarrassed

564
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: to talk about it in a way, And we both

565
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: just decided, nah, like what, like, what's the worst that's

566
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: going to happen here? People might become a little bit

567
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: more understanding of him canceling this show if he explains

568
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,999
Speaker 1: the truth and I said, you have to tell the truth,

569
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: and he did, and it was he said, he's never

570
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: experienced an outreach like it from other men. Su isn't

571
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: that beautiful?

572
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: What did the other men say?

573
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: Thank you for talking about this. I've been through this

574
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: as well, and I haven't told anyone about it. And

575
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,039
Speaker 1: just you know, it's so amazing to see people in

576
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: the public, a public figure like yourself talking about these

577
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: real life, raw, vulnerable moments that not many people talk about.

578
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: You usually see the high lights, but you don't see

579
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: the low lights. His life looks like it's like sunshine

580
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: and rainbows, but behind this phone right now, he's going

581
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: through one of the most traumatic events that he's gone through.

582
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,719
Speaker 1: So for him to be able to share that moment

583
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: and for other men to be able to be like,

584
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: oh shit, other men go through this too, because it's

585
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: just as much as a taboo topic for women as

586
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: it is met, it's actually a bit more taboo for

587
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,759
Speaker 1: men to talk about. I can't imagine them on smoker going, oh,

588
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: I'm going through a miscarriage at home, Like.

589
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 2: No, you just wouldn't hear about it, and because so

590
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: much about physicality is a mystery to them anyway, Totally.

591
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard. It's really really hard. And I

592
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: think that that's one tip that I always say when

593
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: people said, what is a piece of advice, I'm like,

594
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,959
Speaker 1: learn about it, Like knowledge is power, And I feel

595
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: like talking about miscarriage is hard, and it's actually probably

596
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: never going to get easier. But the more you understand

597
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: it and the more you know, you will know someone

598
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: who's going to have a miscarriage at some point in

599
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: your life, whether it's your sister, your cousin, your best friend.

600
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,799
Speaker 1: And you do need to know this stuff, like you

601
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: do need to know how to be able to support

602
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: people because most of the time they're going to do

603
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: this alone. They're going to do it in silent and

604
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: you actually probably won't even know about it. But I

605
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: think just I watched that documentary called Misunderstandings of Miscarriage,

606
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: and I think It's one of the most amazing documentaries

607
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:34,279
Speaker 1: I've ever seen by Tahina Manis, and it's great. I

608
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: tell everyone you should watch it. It's just so insightful

609
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: and it's just learning about it. And that's like when

610
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 1: I was going through all my fertility stuff, when my

611
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: friends would go away and they'd do their research about

612
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: things that were happening to me, and they'd come to

613
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: me and be like, oh, I was looking this up.

614
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: And they're not trying to like tell me what to do,

615
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: but they're just trying to say, I'm learning about this

616
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: from a deeper level, on the.

617
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: Really acutely personal level. For instance, when you went in

618
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: to look at the heartbeats of the twins and the

619
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: heartbeats weren't there. Where do you get the strength from

620
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: in that moment?

621
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: I still remember that that moment so vividly. I was

622
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: in the waiting room before and there's it's of women's

623
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: ultrasound clinics. There's women all in there pregnant and looking

624
00:34:21,759 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: at their photos of their babies. And I actually didn't

625
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 1: go in thinking that there was anything rock. I actually

626
00:34:28,279 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: didn't even know there was twins at that point. And

627
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: I remember Paul was with me, and we were sitting

628
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: in there and they were just there's no easy way

629
00:34:37,799 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: of ripping that band aid off. But you just know

630
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: as soon as the room goes a little bit silent,

631
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 1: and you know what, the only thing that really gave

632
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: me like a bit of comfort in that moment. And

633
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: it's like so sad because it still makes me really upset,

634
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: But the two of them were like right next to

635
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: each other, and that was like they were cuddling, and

636
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, life, Like can why,

637
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: like you can't be this cruel? Like I knew that

638
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: I'd lot like there was you know, I knew that

639
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: there was something bad had gone wrong, but I didn't

640
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: really know the depth of that. But and I had

641
00:35:14,279 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: never seen the two of them together in my uterus,

642
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: and that was so tough. And I remember just thinking,

643
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: you just how do I even put one foot in

644
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: front of the other to get to the car?

645
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 2: How do you?

646
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: How do you?

647
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 2: Is it blind? You just cry?

648
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: It's a definitely a blur. It's very foggy. I still

649
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: to this day, I look back and even when I

650
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: was reading my book back, I felt like that wasn't me,

651
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, I can't believe that that person went

652
00:35:52,279 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: through that and the body, I feel like, has got

653
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: this weird and amazing way of getting you through these

654
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: these crazy life experiences, you know, I think, and I

655
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: always say Greek like, grief is not linear. It hits

656
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,519
Speaker 1: you at the weirdest times, and you could be having

657
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: the best day of your life and you will see

658
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: something like I always talk in the book about feathers.

659
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: I'll see a feather, I'm like, what is that? What

660
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: does that mean? Is there another baby on the horizon?

661
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: Like is there something like? I always look for signs,

662
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: and I just I've found myself, especially now being pregnant.

663
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,479
Speaker 1: I'm so emotional, so you can do nothing and I'll

664
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: just end up in tears. And I always think about

665
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: and all the babies that I lost for boys as well,

666
00:36:42,799 --> 00:36:45,959
Speaker 1: which is like it's like I always scratched my head

667
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: and I think maybe I just couldn't carry boys because

668
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: Bobby I was convinced was a boy my whole pregnancy

669
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: there was I would have bet my house on it,

670
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: this is one hundred percent a boy. And then when

671
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: I gave birth and Paul told me it's a girl,

672
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: it was just like, oh my goodness. I got my

673
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: little mini me, my little angels. So yeah, I don't know.

674
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: I don't know why I couldn't carry boys. Maybe that

675
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: is that is a reason. I'm not sure, so who knows.

676
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: We'll see what happens with this one.

677
00:37:18,279 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: Coming up after this short break, Chloe recounts the scary

678
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: complications she experienced during her first birth, even the birth

679
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 2: of Bobby, who is not a boy, And in that

680
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: beautiful moment after it, once again, you had the really

681
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: descent into I guess the darkness of your physical response

682
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: to the birth. You had that in the intense bleeding.

683
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I had. The birth was I think, you know,

684
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,479
Speaker 1: as standard as you can get. Birth is crazy. It's

685
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: just like I didn't expect it to be that crazy,

686
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: but is crazy. It was. I remember screaming like, I'm

687
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: never so animal.

688
00:38:10,759 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: It's animal.

689
00:38:11,759 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I was like, I'm never doing this

690
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 1: ever again. This is the worst thing in my entire life. However,

691
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it again because I'm The connection

692
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: that I had with Paul was like something that I've

693
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: never experienced ever in my entire life. Like I think

694
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: this is so weird to say this, but I actually

695
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: think it was better than my wedding day, Like it

696
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: was just like that was just incredible. But yeah, then

697
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: things sort of took a turn about half an hour

698
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: after I had given birth to Bobby, and I kind

699
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: of handed Bobby off to Paul, which apparently is a

700
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: red flag in the medical room in the labor suite

701
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: when a mother hands a baby away. And Elidie was

702
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: there my best year and she was actually on her

703
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: way out to get mc donald's for us all. She

704
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: was on her way to get happy meals and as

705
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: she was walking out the room, she's like, I don't

706
00:39:09,279 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: know if I should say this, but like you look

707
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: like shit, Like you look you're not looking good. And

708
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: she said to the midwife like she's white, and I

709
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: remember her saying that. And then the next thing I

710
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: remember is like button was pressed. They pressed down on

711
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 1: my belly because they had just stitched me back up

712
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: because I had had an episiotomy, And when they pressed

713
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 1: on my stomach, Paul said that the amount of blood

714
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: and clots that just came out was something like a

715
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: horror film. And it was like within two seconds, it

716
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: was like, Paul, give her a kiss, Chloe, give the

717
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: baby a kiss. We're going we've got to go to

718
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: theater immediately. And I remember them running down the hallways.

719
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: It was seriously like it was like in a movie.

720
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: And I remember holding onto my midwife's hand and it

721
00:40:00,759 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: was that moment that I was thinking, I'm going to

722
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: die here, This is this how I'm dying, because I

723
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: was kind of, you know, I was just like going

724
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: in and out of consciousness. I was there enough to

725
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: know that something bad had happened, but not really no

726
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: one really had told me other than the fact that

727
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: they're like, we need to get you to theater immediately.

728
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: My weed wife said, when you're not going to die,

729
00:40:20,279 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: We're going to save you. But it was definitely a

730
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: feeling of like this is it for me? And then yeah,

731
00:40:27,759 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: I just had basically when my placenta came off the

732
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: wall of my uterus and my uterus didn't contract and

733
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: it like closes that hole up, so my uterus was

734
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: sort of still open and they'd stitched me up and

735
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: it was just fully bleeding out internally and I lost

736
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: a lot of blood, and so they had to open

737
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: me back up, get the blood out, and then give

738
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: me two blood transfusions. And then it took me a

739
00:40:52,279 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: while to recover from that. Like I was so weak,

740
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't even I just remember when I got taken

741
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: out and I was in ICU that night. They was

742
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: bringing the baby down and Paul's just like telling me

743
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: after just what knew lay there pretty much lifeless, and

744
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: the midwife's hand like holding the baby on my boob

745
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: and like actually feeding the baby from my boob. He's like,

746
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 1: it was just crazy, but yeah, it was. It was

747
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: pretty traumatic.

748
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 2: And then you had a period of postpartum after that

749
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 2: as well, which is probably not surprising given those traumas.

750
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had this moment where I don't know, I

751
00:41:36,279 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: just envisioned everything that it was meant to be, and

752
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: it was, in the end the opposite of that. And

753
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: I remember being eventually when I made it back up

754
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: to the maternity ward, I didn't want to see anyone.

755
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: I was like so white and so and I'm quite

756
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: I've got quite olive skin, so for the color of

757
00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:00,280
Speaker 1: me was ridiculous. It was sickening, and looking back at photos,

758
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: I was so swollen and I didn't want to see anyone.

759
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,439
Speaker 1: It was really weird and it really caught me off garden.

760
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: I remember my family wanting to visit and I didn't

761
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: even want to see I literally wanted to see nobody

762
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: except for Paul and my baby. And it was so

763
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 1: confusing to me because I was like, what is going on?

764
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: This is all I've ever wanted, But I'm scared to

765
00:42:20,759 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: leave the hospital. I'm scared. I don't want to see people.

766
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: I can't even talk on the phone to my mum

767
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,999
Speaker 1: or my family without balling my eyes out. I don't

768
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: actually know what's wrong. There's nothing. There is something wrong, obviously,

769
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: but I've got this beautiful, healthy baby. I'm trying to

770
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: keep alive while keeping myself alive. And I remember Elodie

771
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: said to me, I think you've got like the baby.

772
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: You've got this sink called baby blues. And it wasn't

773
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: full blown depression. It definitely wasn't that. And I'm not

774
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: going to say that I had postpartum depression or anything,

775
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: but I definitely had a period of maybe a couple

776
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: of weeks where I've one hundred percent had this thing

777
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: called baby blues, I guess you could say. And it

778
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: eventually lifted. But I did really find the postpartum healing

779
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: process almost as bad as the labor because I had

780
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: the episiotomy, and it was that, on top of the

781
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: blood loss, the weakness I felt, I really struggled to

782
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: just keep me alive. But then it's so funny. You

783
00:43:21,799 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: go home from the hospital and you're like, oh my gosh,

784
00:43:24,759 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: I've got to keep a child alive. Now.

785
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 2: It's almost like you can't believe you're allowed to leave

786
00:43:30,279 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: a hospital, Like you're not allowed to drive a car

787
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,039
Speaker 2: without a license, but anyone can take a baby home.

788
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: It's so crazy, like you just life is so wild

789
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: and it's so funny because I thought I was so prepared,

790
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: like I'm like, how hard can it be? And then

791
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: it was like ah, me in the face literally, and

792
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, it was crazy.

793
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 2: It's also thank goodness for led again because you in

794
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 2: you telling that, I'm struck by how you've been rewarded

795
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: for the love that you showed her in her darkest hour,

796
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 2: like even being one of the movers to get the

797
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: is it post.

798
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: Mortem sperm retrieval?

799
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, from Chumpy that you were thinking like that obviously,

800
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: because you've always been very motivated by motherhood. But there's

801
00:44:26,279 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: such a finite window to harvest sperm that you were

802
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: thinking of that when she of course, would have been

803
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: so overwhelmed by grief at the time, that wouldn't have

804
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: been her thoughts that you speak in your book very

805
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: candidly about kind of reconciling the losses that you'd had

806
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: with the babies you and Paul. That's saying maybe if

807
00:44:48,799 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: you'd had your own baby, you wouldn't have been able

808
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 2: to be as present and involved with Elerdy and Chumpy's daughter, Minnie,

809
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,519
Speaker 2: who's so important to you.

810
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 1: I feel that, really, really deeply still to this day,

811
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: because I know how crazy the hood is and I

812
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 1: know how busy everyone is, and there's no way if

813
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: we had we were pregnant together. At one point we were,

814
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: I think my second pregnancy. She was pregnant with Minnie,

815
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: so I was a few weeks behind, and there's just

816
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: no way that if I had that baby, there's no

817
00:45:23,799 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: way we would have been able to be there for

818
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 1: el or be in Minnie's life the way that we were,

819
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: because we were so whenever we were in Australia, Minnie

820
00:45:32,759 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: was our daughter as well, and we'd bring them on

821
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: trips with us, and knowing how chaotic it is to

822
00:45:38,279 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: have your own child, that wouldn't have been the case.

823
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,999
Speaker 1: If we had a baby back at the same time,

824
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: one hundred percent.

825
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: And do you think having Mini there as well was

826
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: a beacon of what could be for you and Paul.

827
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Minnie, Minnie saved us all in so many ways.

828
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: I remember when I had one of my miscarriages and

829
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,999
Speaker 1: all I wanted was Minni literally, that is, I didn't

830
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: want to say anyone. All I wanted was this little girl.

831
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: She is that she is still one of the biggest

832
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: joys in our life as well, Like she's absolutely utterly

833
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: obsessed with Poor He's the best father figure to her.

834
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, she Yeah, we love her so much. And

835
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: people often get confused because they thought we had Minni

836
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: so much in our life previously, that people thought that

837
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: she was our child and then they always they do

838
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: say these days, like what about the other daughter? But

839
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: but as you know, though, like you know, as kids

840
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,479
Speaker 1: get older, you're not as cool anymore, or you don't

841
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: want to be hung out with, as you know. But

842
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: it's really beautiful to see Minnie and Bobby together. Bobby's

843
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: obsessed with Minni. She calls her Mimi, and everything's Mimi, Mimi,

844
00:46:43,759 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: where are you Mimi? But yeah, it is really beautiful,

845
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: the kind of modern family that we've created together.

846
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: Yes, and that even as you've filled the well for them,

847
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 2: when you've needed a drink, you've gone to the well,

848
00:47:01,279 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 2: and the well has had plenty for you as well.

849
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: We do have a really good support system up here

850
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: on the Gold Coast.

851
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: And I saw eld came out the other day and

852
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: she went she did a hard launch with a new

853
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: boyfriend or new partner or whatever. Yeah, how's how's that

854
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: been in the mix as well?

855
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's just like really naturally just we we actually

856
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: knew him previously, Like he's not a stranger. He's actually

857
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 1: the brother of one of our really good friends. So

858
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: of course we don't worry. We did the background work. No,

859
00:47:36,279 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: he's so lovely and like he like he's so good

860
00:47:39,759 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: with the girls, and it's it's it's so nice, like

861
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: genuinely touches my heart seeing how happy and that sparkle

862
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 1: back in L's eyes, And you know, I just I'm

863
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: really excited to see how it makes me cry, look crying,

864
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,879
Speaker 1: how it unfolds for her because she deserves to have

865
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,999
Speaker 1: that love again. You know, it's been a really long time,

866
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 1: and you know, I feel and each to their own

867
00:48:04,279 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: and exactly what I said before, grief is not linear

868
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: and people grieve in different ways. Some people move on

869
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: really fast, but it wasn't the case for l And

870
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 1: it was really important because she obviously had many that

871
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 1: if she was going to bring someone into her life,

872
00:48:17,279 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: it had to be the right kind of person. And yeah,

873
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: I think he's just that. It's very very special.

874
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: Because you know so much about grief. How much of

875
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: that do you take with you? I know you said

876
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 2: you think about the little ones that you lost, how

877
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: much do you take forward into your life, Like, now

878
00:48:41,799 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 2: you're on the cusp of this new life, how do

879
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 2: you reconcile that with the loss you've had?

880
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: Like, I don't think anything's going to be able to,

881
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 1: you know, cover up or what's happened. It is what

882
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: it is, And I don't know. I just always think

883
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: that you have to keep moving forward, and I really try.

884
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: You know, I can only really speak for myself on

885
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 1: this one, because I've had miscourriages and I have lost

886
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: my grandmother and my grandfather and stuff like that, but

887
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 1: I haven't had a really really crazy, crazy loss of

888
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: a partner, for example. So I think that that grief

889
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: would be much harder one to move forward with. But

890
00:49:28,759 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. I always I just allow my body

891
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: to feel it when I want to feel it. If

892
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: I'm having a shit day, I let myself have a

893
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: shit day. If I want to have a few tears

894
00:49:37,799 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: and just get in the shower and cry, I do that.

895
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just ebb and flow, and like there's

896
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 1: no right or wrong way of dealing with grief. Everyone

897
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: deals with it completely differently. And I really just try

898
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: and look on the bright side and I try to

899
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: make some sort of happiness out of every situation as

900
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: much as I can. And you know, we're very lucky

901
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: to live in this world, and I'm healthy, my family's healthy,

902
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: and like I know that everyone isn't that blessed. But

903
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 1: that's like a whole reason why I'm just like, keep going, Chloe,

904
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: you know, light, And I kind of tell myself, like

905
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: life does go on, and you do need to evolve

906
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: and be really grateful and really present with what you have.

907
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 1: And I'm trying not to get myself down or get

908
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 1: bogged down in the heavy, heavy grief.

909
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 2: And let it wash over you. Yeah, yeah, and then

910
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 2: keep moving forward. Yeah, if you could. And I think

911
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,760
Speaker 2: a lot of people have taken strength from you sharing

912
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 2: your own stories. If you could go back to yourself,

913
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 2: for instance, you on the beach putting the two white

914
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: roses on the sand for the twins. If you could

915
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 2: go back to that Chloe and say something to her,

916
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: what would you say.

917
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:12,240
Speaker 1: I'd probably say, don't give up. I know you won't,

918
00:51:12,799 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: but something will happen for you in some way, shape

919
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: or form. And don't think that the path is going

920
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: to be smooth, because there's so many different endings that

921
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: could have been a possibility. And be open to change,

922
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: and be open and resilient to whatever life throws at you,

923
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: because you still have some curveballs in the road. But

924
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: try and just keep putting one foot in front of

925
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: the other, because it is going to work out in

926
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:40,519
Speaker 1: the end, even if.

927
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 2: You're putting that one foot in front of the other.

928
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 1: On the toe, one toe in front of the other.

929
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, one toe, one toe, Oh, Chloe Fisher. I

930
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 2: wish you every happiness.

931
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thanks so much for having me

932
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: on here, and I'm glad that we got to get

933
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: on here and have this chat.

934
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: Yes, appreciate it and it will mean a lot to

935
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 2: a lot of people thank you. We can't wait to

936
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,439
Speaker 2: see the new member, the new little fisherman or Fisher girl.

937
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 2: Yes next year. There's something about speaking with someone who's

938
00:52:17,279 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 2: lived through such loss and still radiates hope and is

939
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: not afraid to share the stories of that loss, which

940
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: is sometimes what we hang on to, as though speaking

941
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: it aloud somehow reflects poorly on us or brings with

942
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: it the attendant shame. What stays with me after talking

943
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: to Chloe Fisher is her ability to hold both the

944
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 2: grief and the joy, to speak about miscarriage and IVF

945
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 2: and heartbreak with grace, to still find laughter and light

946
00:52:51,799 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 2: on the other side, and be mindful of those who

947
00:52:54,759 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 2: are still on the negative side of that equation. Chloe's

948
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: memoir Always You is out now, and if you or

949
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: someone you love is walking through fertility challenges or pregnancy loss,

950
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,879
Speaker 2: or if they're crawling through you can find support through

951
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,959
Speaker 2: the Pink Elephant support network. We've linked them in our

952
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 2: show notes. Thanks for listening to No Filter. The executive

953
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: producer of No Filter is Nama Brown, The senior producer

954
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 2: is bre Player. Audio production is by Tina Mattloff, and

955
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: video editing is by Josh Green. This episode was recorded

956
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: at Session in Progress Studios. I am your host Kate Langbrook,

957
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: and I will see you next Monday. Mamma Mia acknowledges

958
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,439
Speaker 2: the traditional owners of the land and waters that this

959
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:48,919
Speaker 2: podcast is recorded on