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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mumma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mummama's twice daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie. You may have never heard the name Nick

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Speaker 1: Fuentes before, but this past week you've probably heard his

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Speaker 1: new catchphrase.

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Speaker 3: It's your body, my choice.

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Speaker 1: That your body my choice comment has swept the Internet,

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Speaker 1: with men using it to troll women in the aftermath

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Speaker 1: of the presidential election that saw Donald Trump return to

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Speaker 1: the White House for his second non consecutive term. But

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Speaker 1: while there's a cohort of men screaming that they've won

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Speaker 1: against women, women are taking measures into their own hands,

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Speaker 1: signing up to a movement that started well before Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump ever sat behind the desk in the Oval Office.

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Speaker 1: For b Boy Sober, whatever you want to call it,

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Speaker 1: we find out why women are giving up on men

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. But before we do that, here's

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Speaker 1: the latest from the Quickie newsroom. Wednesday, November thirteenth. The

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Speaker 1: Archbishop of Canterbury has resigned after he failed to ensure

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Speaker 1: there was a proper investigation into allegations of abuse by

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Speaker 1: a volunteer at a Christian summer camp. Justin Welby, the

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Speaker 1: senior bishop for the Church of England, had faced calls

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Speaker 1: to step down after a report last week concluded that

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Speaker 1: he'd taken insufficient action to stop a person it describes

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Speaker 1: as arguably the church's most prolific serial abuser. In his

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Speaker 1: resignation letter, Welby said he must take a personal and

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Speaker 1: institutional responsibility for the lack of action on the heinous abuse.

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Speaker 1: He explained the last few days had renewed his long

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Speaker 1: felt and profound sense of shame at the historic safeguarding

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Speaker 1: failures of the Church of England. The Independent mac And

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Speaker 1: report outlined the abuse perpetrated by John Smith, a UK

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Speaker 1: lawyer who'd subjected more than one hundred boys and young

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Speaker 1: men to brutal and horrific physical and sexual abuse over

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Speaker 1: a forty year period. He was the chair of the

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Speaker 1: Iworn Trust, which funded Christian camps in Dorset. Wellby worked

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Speaker 1: at the camp as a dormitory officer before he was ordained.

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Speaker 1: Smith moved to Africa in nineteen eighty four and continued

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Speaker 1: to abuse young boys right up until his death in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Donald Trump is set to meet with Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden at the White House Wednesday, US time, but Millenia

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Speaker 1: will not be joining them, in what's being interpreted by

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Speaker 1: experts as a major snub Milania. Trump's decided not to

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Speaker 1: meet with Jill Biden in the traditional White House post

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Speaker 1: election meeting to discuss the handover of responsibilities. The tradition

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Speaker 1: was also not held after the last result in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: with mister Trump saying the election was rigged and refusing

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Speaker 1: to meet with Joe Biden for the handover. According to sources,

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Speaker 1: there's a scheduling conflict, but some media outlets are saying

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Speaker 1: she's actually angry over the raids the FBI undertook on

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Speaker 1: Trump's mar Lago resort in the document handling case. One

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Speaker 1: saw saying she's upset that Jill Biden's husband authorized the

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Speaker 1: FBI snooping through her underwedds. Queen Camilla says she's on

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Speaker 1: the mend after suffering a chest infection that forced her

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Speaker 1: to back out of several royal commitments. The seventy seven

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Speaker 1: year old missed last week's Remembrance Sunday event after calling

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Speaker 1: in sick, but she recently hosted a reception at her

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Speaker 1: Clarence House home for authors who'd been shortlisted for the

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Speaker 1: Booker Prize, telling writer Perceval Everett that she's on the mend,

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Speaker 1: but that these things always take a bit of time

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Speaker 1: to get rid of. She won't be attending the London

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Speaker 1: premiere of the Gladiator sequel this week. Disgraced actor Armie

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Speaker 1: Hammer has sat down with his mum on the latest

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Speaker 1: edition of his podcast to talk about the controversies that

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Speaker 1: essentially ended his career and a birthday present not many

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Speaker 1: mothers would give their sons. In twenty twenty one, an

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Speaker 1: anonymous woman came forward with allegation she'd had a four

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Speaker 1: year affair with Hammer, during which he sent her graphic

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Speaker 1: and violent messages on Instagram dms about cannibalism, rape fantasies,

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Speaker 1: and a design to drink her blood. Other women then

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Speaker 1: came forward with stories of emotional abuse, rape and sexual coercion.

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Speaker 1: Hammer checked himself into rehab as acting roles dried up.

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Speaker 1: His mom says his son has been cleared legally of

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Speaker 1: any wrongdoing.

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Speaker 2: You were completely exonerated, and we know why. It certainly

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Speaker 2: helps when you're an influencer that you've dated Army Hammer.

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Speaker 2: I'm not stupid. I'm your mother. Well, you know, I

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Speaker 2: even called you one time and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: let me just get this feet. Are there women out

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Speaker 2: there with ribs or limbs missing? That's what I want

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Speaker 2: to know as a mother. Yeah, because end of conversation,

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Speaker 2: if there are limbs or ribs missing, right, And let's

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Speaker 2: be honest. I think you learned not to put stupid

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Speaker 2: things in DMS because no one was eaten, no one

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Speaker 2: was raped, but you were stupid.

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Speaker 1: She then went on to explain that she decided to

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Speaker 1: help her son medically for his birthday.

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Speaker 4: What did you get?

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Speaker 2: So I call Army and I go, Army, what would

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Speaker 2: you like for your birthday this year? And he goes, oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, maybe money whatever. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, I believe I'm going to give you a

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Speaker 2: vessect to me.

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Speaker 1: She said of her gift. Yeah, I'm not stupid. Hammer

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Speaker 1: already has two children with his ex wife. That's what's

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Speaker 1: going on in the world today. Next women are taking

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Speaker 1: what men are telling them very seriously and deciding to

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Speaker 1: just opt out. The aftermath of Donald Trump's twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four presidential victory, has seen a disturbing surgeon online misogyny,

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Speaker 1: particularly centered around a twisted version of the pro choice

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Speaker 1: slogan my body, My Choice. The phrase has been weaponized

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Speaker 1: by men online into your body, my Choice, sparked by

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Speaker 1: white nationalists Nick Fuentes.

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Speaker 3: Hey, we control your bodies. Guess what. Guys win again? Okay,

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Speaker 3: men win again? And yes, we control your bodies. It's

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Speaker 3: your body, my choice. There will never ever be a

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Speaker 3: female president never. There will never be a female president ever.

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Speaker 3: Your body, our choice.

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Speaker 1: This isn't Fuentas's first brush with controversy. He's known for

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Speaker 1: promoting white supremacist ideologies, is a holocaust denier, and has

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Speaker 1: previously made inflammatory statements about women, including that they shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have the right to vote. The Institute for Strategic Dialogue

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Speaker 1: reports that within days of Trump's victory, the phrase your body,

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Speaker 1: my choice appeared in over fifty two thousand posts on Facebook,

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Speaker 1: and women across social media platforms have reported receiving threatening messages.

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Speaker 1: After Fuentez posted your body My Choice Forever on X,

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Speaker 1: a commentary responded saying, don't worry about it. No woman

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Speaker 1: will ever let you impregnate her. A man responded to

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Speaker 1: that saying we don't need permission. There are reports this

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Speaker 1: behavior has even spread into the school yard.

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Speaker 5: My god daughter Bean told me that yesterday in school,

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Speaker 5: the boys high school boys were chanting all day your body,

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Speaker 5: my choice, the fuck. My stance on treating other people

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Speaker 5: kindly is because I am a wildly optimistic person. So

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Speaker 5: fucking annoying, I know, and I choose to believe that

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Speaker 5: seventy two million people are not hateful and want to

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Speaker 5: make life harder for everybody else. But the line is

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Speaker 5: very clear. I want to make myself crystal clear. The

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Speaker 5: line is drawn that there is a difference between you

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Speaker 5: having a moral difference with other people and you wanting

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Speaker 5: to fucking control women.

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Speaker 1: Now, if you're thinking Nick Fuentes is another one of

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Speaker 1: those far right nutjobs existing on the fringes of the

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Speaker 1: American power structure, think again.

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump facing growing backlash todight to his dinner last

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Speaker 3: week with prominent white nationalist Nick Fuentes at his private

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Speaker 3: mar Lago club.

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Speaker 1: The dinner, which was also attended by Kanye West, sparked

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Speaker 1: significant backlash, with even Republican figures like Mike Pant's calling

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Speaker 1: for Trump to apologize. Trump later claimed he didn't know

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Speaker 1: Fuentez or his back around, describing the dinner as quick

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Speaker 1: and uneventful. In response to the wave of misogyny, many

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Speaker 1: American women are turning to an unexpected source of inspiration,

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Speaker 1: South Korea. This feminist four B movement, which gained prominence

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, advocates for women to abstain from four

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Speaker 1: key aspects of heterosexual relationships, dating, marriage, childbirth, and sexual

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Speaker 1: relations with men. Following Trump's election victory, Google searches for

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Speaker 1: four be searched by four hundred and fifty percent in

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Speaker 1: a single day, and social media platforms have been flooded

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Speaker 1: with women sharing their decision to join the movement, with

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Speaker 1: some documenting their breakups with Republican partners. Even this woman

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Speaker 1: who shaved her head while blasting those women who chose

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Speaker 1: to support the men who would restrict their rights.

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Speaker 2: I understand I've heard the message, louve and clear.

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Speaker 1: We all have.

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Speaker 4: Now women are going to have to just refuse to participate.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, if you're a man, I will not be responding

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 4: If you are a man, I will not.

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Speaker 5: Be talking to you.

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Speaker 3: I am promoting the Flourbe.

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Speaker 5: Movement from here on out.

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Speaker 1: But even before Trump won, young women were thinking of

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Speaker 1: removing themselves from the dating pool. Writer and co host

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Speaker 1: of Mama MIA's daily entertainment show The Spill, m Vernon

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Speaker 1: recently wrote about the boys Sober movement and how women

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Speaker 1: are so tired of dealing with men in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four that they're decentralizing them from their lives and focusing

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Speaker 1: on themselves. First, m I don't suppose you're surprised to

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Speaker 1: see a move towards movements like four B in the

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Speaker 1: wake of the Trump win. But do you think this

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Speaker 1: is a trend that will continue?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I feel like, especially with gen Z women, that

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Speaker 6: was probably the most prominent group that were already doing

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Speaker 6: the boy sober movement in a way that was focusing

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Speaker 6: on yourself. But I have interviewed a few girls. One

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Speaker 6: of the interviewers, Tarlie, who works among Maya, She actually

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Speaker 6: said that the reason why she when boy sober or

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Speaker 6: like I guess accidentally became boy sober, was because, like

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Speaker 6: it's just a scary place to be a woman right now,

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Speaker 6: especially a single WORL who's dating, especially on the apps.

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Speaker 4: Although it's like so accessible to date right now, it's

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Speaker 4: still a.

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Speaker 6: Dangerous place like you still have to put in safety

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Speaker 6: precautions and tell your friends where you are and maybe

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Speaker 6: have your friends tracking your phone and knowing who the

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Speaker 6: person you're about to meet is and like talking them

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Speaker 6: on socials just because we have to stay safe. And

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Speaker 6: it's that mental load of women having to do more

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Speaker 6: than men to keep themselves safe when they're dating. And

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Speaker 6: now I feel like it's just going to skyrocket, Like

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Speaker 6: it is already so hard, and why would we want

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Speaker 6: it to make it harder, Like I think the easy

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Speaker 6: way now is for women to just refuse to go

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Speaker 6: on dates and just focus on themselves and stay safe.

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Speaker 1: I've been with my partner forever in a day, so

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Speaker 1: I miss the whole dating app revolution. But does it

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Speaker 1: feel like dating apps in the beginning were like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is convenient, and then through the pandemic, it was like,

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Speaker 1: this is the only way I can connect with people.

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Speaker 1: But has it allowed and given permission for people to

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Speaker 1: behave poorly?

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Speaker 6: You're so right, I think apps firstly have done wonders

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Speaker 6: for I guess the dating universe. I know so many

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Speaker 6: women in my generation especially who have met their long

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Speaker 6: term partners via dating apps. The thing is, I think

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Speaker 6: there's a huge disconnect on what dating apps are meant

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Speaker 6: to be, Like no dating app has one rule of

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Speaker 6: what it's meant to provide. Some people use dating apps

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Speaker 6: to hook up, some people use dating apps to date

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Speaker 6: and find their life partners. Some people use dating apps

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Speaker 6: just to find friends. And it's that sort of disconnect

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Speaker 6: and being put into an environment where it's just so unnatural,

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Speaker 6: Like organically you would meet someone and you would get

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Speaker 6: to know them as a friend or just like vibe

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Speaker 6: with them with a group of friends before you start dating,

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Speaker 6: and with dating apps, you're very much like, this is

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Speaker 6: a date.

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Speaker 4: Are we mutually attracted to each other? Do I see

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Speaker 4: a future with you?

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Speaker 6: And I think that's the big disconnect that dating apps provide,

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Speaker 6: But it is starting to get oversaturated. I do think

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Speaker 6: people are able to feel like they can gamble with

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Speaker 6: other people's feelings to the point where they forget that

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Speaker 6: it's an act person on the other side of the phone.

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Speaker 6: And that starts right from like swiping right or left

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Speaker 6: on someone just based on their profile, versus feeling like

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Speaker 6: you can go someone or love.

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Speaker 4: Bomb someone because it doesn't feel so real.

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Speaker 6: It's all over the phone and you kind of forget

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Speaker 6: that there are feelings involved in this, and when that

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Speaker 6: isn't established, then people feel like I think they can

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Speaker 6: do whatever they want.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting to look at the world that singer

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Speaker 1: women now exist in, because it's not that the world

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Speaker 1: has ever been safer for women, but it does feel

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Speaker 1: particularly dangerous at this point in time, and we've seen

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Speaker 1: moves to change legislation in South Australia and in Queensland

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Speaker 1: to limit or recriminalize abortion. What is it for a

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Speaker 1: woman of your age who single and still outlooking for

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Speaker 1: people in the world? Does it feel like right now

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Speaker 1: is more dangerous than it's ever been.

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Speaker 4: It's really hard.

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Speaker 6: I feel like working in the industry, I think I

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Speaker 6: am more aware and see it more versus the people

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Speaker 6: I would end up dating. But yeah, there is something

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Speaker 6: in the air right now where it feels quite tedious

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Speaker 6: to date. And I don't just mean like the environment

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Speaker 6: that we're in with like the US election, what's happening

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Speaker 6: in Australia. But I think even having to talk about

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Speaker 6: those topics on a date, you kind of just don't

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Speaker 6: know where that conversation will take versus when you're with

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Speaker 6: your friends and stuff, like you have an idea of

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Speaker 6: like you already have established shared values and what things

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Speaker 6: mean to you, but when you're on a date, you

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Speaker 6: end up talking about like what's happening in society, like

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Speaker 6: what are the cultural movements? And when the cultural movements

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Speaker 6: are things that are so politically aligned, and also things

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Speaker 6: that if they don't agree on, it has a direct

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Speaker 6: impact on your life.

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Speaker 4: That is what gets really hard.

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Speaker 6: Because I would rather just not put myself in that

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Speaker 6: situation and have those conversations, and would rather the whole

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Speaker 6: thing blow over.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, I don't know when that

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Speaker 4: will be.

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Speaker 1: How do you also feel I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: saw there's a story in the US where a lot

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Speaker 1: of women of color have received this mass text message

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Speaker 1: telling them to report in to pick cotton, or the

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Speaker 1: comments from the Australian Senator Ralph Babbitt saying that you know,

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Speaker 1: he uses the N word freely because no one should

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Speaker 1: tell him, you know, how he can use his speech

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Speaker 1: as a woman of color. Do you feel like trump

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Speaker 1: Ism is encroaching on your life at all or does

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Speaker 1: it worry you that that might happen.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that is the main worry.

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Speaker 4: But that's something that I feel like has.

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Speaker 6: Stemmed from the beginning of when I first started dating

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Speaker 6: in my early twenties, Like there's nothing on a dating

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Speaker 6: profile where you can tick whether you're like, are you

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Speaker 6: a racist or not? Like that's you can't establish someone

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Speaker 6: from that point of view. It always happens like on

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Speaker 6: the second or third date, and you start finding out

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Speaker 6: these little things about them that you're like, oh, I

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Speaker 6: actually think that you might not be a good person.

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Speaker 6: And that doesn't mean like shared values, but it means

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Speaker 6: that you genuinely think that I am a lesser person

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Speaker 6: than you are. And that is when I feel like

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Speaker 6: the entire voice Sober movement comes into play, because you're

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Speaker 6: just going on these dates with these people who sometimes

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Speaker 6: good but sometimes really really shitty, and you're just going

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Speaker 6: date after date after date because we have so much

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Speaker 6: access to date with dating apps, and you just end

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Speaker 6: up becoming desensitized to everything. And it's certain things like this,

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Speaker 6: like racist behavior, microaggressions that I don't want to be

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Speaker 6: desensitized too. I want to call them out every single

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Speaker 6: time and show them that it's a real problem. But

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Speaker 6: when it's happening constantly, I think that's where I have

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Speaker 6: to literally take a break.

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Speaker 1: How do you see yourself moving around this world right

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Speaker 1: now as a single young woman. Do you feel like

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Speaker 1: it's best for you to just maybe step away from

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Speaker 1: dating and step away from apps and maybe focusing on yourself.

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Speaker 1: Are you still hopeful that you know there's somebody out

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Speaker 1: there for you?

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Speaker 6: It's really hard, Like I definitely think that everything I've

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Speaker 6: talked about today, like especially with the racism and microaggressions.

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Speaker 4: It is in the minority pool.

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Speaker 6: But that's a major thing for people who've never experienced

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Speaker 6: dating ever. But I also find taking a full break

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Speaker 6: from dating, especially in your late twenties. I'm twenty eight now,

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Speaker 6: is quite a brave thing to do. I think women

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Speaker 6: are constantly have their biological clock at the back of

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Speaker 6: the head. And I don't even know if I want

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Speaker 6: kids or not, or like what I want for my

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Speaker 6: future with a partner, but.

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Speaker 4: There's always these added pressures.

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Speaker 6: That you're constantly thinking about that I always feel like,

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Speaker 6: if I did take a break from dating, will I.

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Speaker 4: Be wasting time? Will I be losing time?

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Speaker 6: And I think the women who do choose to go

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Speaker 6: boy sober and kind of work out who they are

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Speaker 6: as a person on their own. I think it is

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Speaker 6: a really brave thing to do and I applaud them fully.

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Speaker 1: Trump Ism, as we learned back in twenty sixteen, will

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Speaker 1: bleed into Australian life. Mama me as US correspondent Emelia

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Speaker 1: Lester told us to expect that this will happen, and

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Speaker 1: we can already see its influence. There are reports the

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Speaker 1: Federal Liberal Party is consulting with Republican campaigners in the

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Speaker 1: US to find out how their strategy to win that

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Speaker 1: election worked so well, and Opposition leader Peter Dutton has

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Speaker 1: started using Trump phrases like asking if you feel like

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Speaker 1: you're better off now than you were four years ago.

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Speaker 1: Australian billionaire Gina Reinhart, who joined Trump for his post

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Speaker 1: election win celebrations at Marra Lago, reportedly told friends she

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Speaker 1: would like to see Australia learn from the Trump win

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Speaker 1: and reject everything that is left. And we've seen some

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Speaker 1: men in government, emboldened by the far right conservative views

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Speaker 1: being loud right now also reveal their stand on issues,

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Speaker 1: like Senator Ralph Babbitt, who posted to X and I

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Speaker 1: will warn you there is about to be some very

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Speaker 1: offensive language, so prepare yourself. He wrote in my house.

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Speaker 1: We say faggot, retard, and the N word, which he

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Speaker 1: did choose to partly blank out. He said, we're sick

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Speaker 1: of you. Wocast clowns, cry more, write an article, tweet

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Speaker 1: about me. No one cares what you think. Political analysts

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Speaker 1: note that Trump's success with male voters played a crucial

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Speaker 1: role in his victory, securing fifty five percent of the

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Speaker 1: male vote across age groups, and this gender gap in

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Speaker 1: voting patterns has highlighted deep divisions in American society, particularly

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Speaker 1: regarding women's rights and reproductive freedom. The Institute for Strategic

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Speaker 1: Dialogue warns that this trend of online harassment could extend

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Speaker 1: well beyond the election cycle. Their research has tracked a

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Speaker 1: significant increase in posts calling for the repeal of the

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Speaker 1: Nineteenth Amendment, which grants women the right to vote, alongside

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Speaker 1: other forms of misogynistic content. Women's rights advocates are particularly

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Speaker 1: concerned about the normalization of such behavior, noting that the

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Speaker 1: harassment campaign represents more than just online trolling. It does

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Speaker 1: reflect a broader challenge to women's autonomy and rights, and

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Speaker 1: many point to Trump's previous actions, including his Supreme Court appointments,

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Speaker 1: that would eventually lead to the overturning of Roe v.

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Speaker 1: Wade as evidence of the real world implications of his rhetoric.

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Speaker 1: Will the rise of movements like four B and Boy

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Speaker 1: Sober have any impact on how men view women in

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Speaker 1: a post Trump world. We don't know, but with options slimming,

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Speaker 1: women are choosing radical solutions in response to what they

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Speaker 1: perceive as an increasingly hostile social and political environment. As

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Speaker 1: for Nick Fuentes, he's learned that the Internet can be

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Speaker 1: just as cruel to you as you are in using

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Speaker 1: it to be cruel to others. After that video we

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Speaker 1: played you earlier, when viral netizens began sharing photos and

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Speaker 1: property records of Puentes's home, he's been doxed, the hacker

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Speaker 1: collective known as Anonymous, posting over the weekend that this

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Speaker 1: information has been shared with millions of women across every

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Speaker 1: social media platform. One woman claims she was pepper sprayed

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Speaker 1: after ringing the doorbell. Google Maps has now blurred the

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Speaker 1: image where his home is reportedly located. Thanks for taking

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Speaker 1: the time to feed your mind with us today. The

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Speaker 1: quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our executive

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Speaker 1: producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by Tiegan Sadler