Speaker 1: Hi there, I'm Jemma Bath and you're listening to True
Speaker 1: Crime Conversations. Just a few weeks ago, an American serial
Speaker 1: killer was sentenced to life without parole. It brought to
Speaker 1: an end a case that spans decades, a case recovered
Speaker 1: in detail on this podcast in twenty twenty four, when
Speaker 1: there were only charges involved to recap in twenty eleven,
Speaker 1: A total of eleven human remains were found on or
Speaker 1: around Gilgo Beach on Long Island, New York. In twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three and twenty twenty four, one man was charged
Speaker 1: with murdering seven of them. His name is Rex Hueman,
Speaker 1: and he was a local architect who hid in plain
Speaker 1: sight for years before his eventual arrest in July twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three. He'd been using up to one hundred bonafones
Speaker 1: to lure women, mainly sex workers, before torturing them, killing
Speaker 1: them and burying some were dismembered. The women were aged
Speaker 1: between twenty and thirty four, and they were killed between
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three and twenty ten. Their names were Sandra Costia,
Speaker 1: Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Maureen Brainard Barnes, Melissa Barthelomy, Megan Waterman,
Speaker 1: and Amber Costello. We now know of an eighth victim,
Speaker 1: Karen Vegata, killed in nineteen ninety six, whom Human admitted
Speaker 1: to murdering earlier this year. To understand more about the
Speaker 1: evidence police found that led them to Human, how they
Speaker 1: caught him, and more about the victims by suggest dipping
Speaker 1: back into our original episode. It's linked in our show notes.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, we asked our original guest, Alexis Slipletter,
Speaker 1: who has a podcast called Unraveled, unpacking this case in detail,
Speaker 1: to come back on our show and fill us in
Speaker 1: on the latest from court.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 3: She is Alexis.
Speaker 1: Last time we spoke, it was October twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: At that point, Rex Human had been charged with six motors,
Speaker 1: and then a few months after our interview there was
Speaker 1: a seventh murder charge. Were you expecting that momentum to
Speaker 1: continue because there were eleven bodies found in and around
Speaker 1: Gilgo Beage.
Speaker 3: I was expecting that momentum to continue.
Speaker 4: I had always been of the mind that all of
Speaker 4: the remains found along Ocean Parkway were connected to Rex Hwermen.
Speaker 4: But in the months that followed I discovered that I
Speaker 4: was wrong about that.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit about that, because two
Speaker 1: of the three remaining motors that we haven't attributed were
Speaker 1: attributed to someone else.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 4: So there were two victims who had long been unidentified,
Speaker 4: and they were known as Peaches and Baby Dough, and
Speaker 4: they were linked genetically in I believe around like the
Speaker 4: early side of like the twenty tens, they were able
Speaker 4: to link them genetically in confirmed that they were a
Speaker 4: mother and daughter. Now, the remains were found really far
Speaker 4: apart from each other. The mother's torso was found in
Speaker 4: an area close to New York City, where her appendages
Speaker 4: were found along Ocean Parkway, and the toddler was found
Speaker 4: along Ocean Parkway about two hundred and fifty feet from
Speaker 4: the remains belonging to a woman named Valerie.
Speaker 3: Mack who rex Yuerman was charged with.
Speaker 4: Now, a little while after rex Huerman was charged with
Speaker 4: that seven victim, these two victims were identified as Tanya
Speaker 4: Jackson is the mother and Tatiana Dykes is the baby.
Speaker 4: And not long after that, the neighboring county to where
Speaker 4: the Long Island serial killer case basically is unfolding, which
Speaker 4: is called Suffolk County. The neighboring county in a different
Speaker 4: jurisdiction charged a different man with the murder of Tanya Jackson,
Speaker 4: who was known as Peaches. Nobody has been charged for
Speaker 4: the baby, and presumably, I mean we think obviously they
Speaker 4: believe if this man killed the mother, they killed the
Speaker 4: child as well. So it was a big shock to
Speaker 4: everybody familiar with the case. I don't think anyone was
Speaker 4: expecting that. I'm still in shock over it because there
Speaker 4: are so many coincidences tied to where these remains are found.
Speaker 4: I find it really hard to believe that two different
Speaker 4: people would have chosen such precise locations for this.
Speaker 1: And then the third victim, known as Asian Doe. No
Speaker 1: one has been charged over that death.
Speaker 4: No one has been charged with the death of Asian Doe.
Speaker 4: There is a renewed push once again to try to
Speaker 4: figure out who they are. Although when I was attending
Speaker 4: in court the plea hearing for Rex Hereman, so when
Speaker 4: he pled guilty, there was a giant press conference afterwards,
Speaker 4: and one of my colleagues asked the district attorney whether
Speaker 4: or not the DA believed that Rex Huremen could be
Speaker 4: responsible for the murder of Asian Doe. And the district
Speaker 4: attorney has sort of like an interesting personality. But he
Speaker 4: said this to my colleague, he said, it doesn't matter
Speaker 4: what I believe, it matters what I can prove. And
Speaker 4: it kind of made us feel like they believe he
Speaker 4: did that they haven't proven it yet, and especially because
Speaker 4: in these batches of evidence that the district attorney was
Speaker 4: sharing with the public along the way, you know, over
Speaker 4: the three years since he'd been arrested, to go along
Speaker 4: with all the new indictments, there are many many Google
Speaker 4: searches that have been provided to the public that rex
Speaker 4: hu Weermen made and a lot of them were about
Speaker 4: Asian victims.
Speaker 3: And a lot of them are about Asian.
Speaker 4: Trans victims, which many people believe that Asian doe was
Speaker 4: living their life as a woman because they were biologically
Speaker 4: male but found in women's clothing.
Speaker 1: Human was going to trial, that was what we've been
Speaker 1: waiting for. He'd pled not guilty. It was shaping up
Speaker 1: to be enormous. The sheer scope of you know, the
Speaker 1: number of victims, the years he was active, the evidence.
Speaker 1: Can you kind of help paint that picture because at
Speaker 1: one point his defense team wanted five different trials, like
Speaker 1: this was going to be huge.
Speaker 4: It was going to be huge because with every new arrest,
Speaker 4: I mean with every new indictment they made. You know,
Speaker 4: he was indicted for the murder of a woman named
Speaker 4: Santra Costia.
Speaker 3: She was murdered in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 4: Prior to that, the earliest victim we all thought that
Speaker 4: he was responsible for was nineteen ninety six, So the
Speaker 4: timeline of when he was murdering kept broadening, and so
Speaker 4: did them. A lot of these victims were dismembered, some
Speaker 4: of them were not. With Sandra Costia, the woman that
Speaker 4: he was indicted for the seventh victim, she had sharp
Speaker 4: force injuries and was left in the woods, not where
Speaker 4: any of the other victims were found. For a long time,
Speaker 4: everyone thought a different serial killer was responsible. So for
Speaker 4: that reason, we're talking so many geographic areas, so many
Speaker 4: different mos and his attorney did attempt to sever the
Speaker 4: trials into five separate trials. He attempted several times to
Speaker 4: get evidence thrown out because the evidence against him is
Speaker 4: vast as well. But there was new DNA technology that
Speaker 4: was used in a lot of this DNA analysis, so
Speaker 4: it was going to be huge. That's why I mean
Speaker 4: it took three years, all of the pre trial hearings.
Speaker 4: It was going to be a massive trial and it
Speaker 4: was going to be complicated. But the evidence against him
Speaker 4: is overwhelming, So I think he saw the writing on
Speaker 4: the wall.
Speaker 1: Did you think human was going to change his play,
Speaker 1: that that is something that hey would do.
Speaker 4: My instinct was no, But I heard early on from
Speaker 4: a source that he was considering that.
Speaker 3: Because I was of the mind that, well, what does
Speaker 3: he have to lose? You know, we don't have the death.
Speaker 4: Penalty in New York State, so why not why not
Speaker 4: sit there through the attention and the media circus and
Speaker 4: soak all of that in.
Speaker 3: I didn't see a downside for him.
Speaker 4: But the more I've under gootten to know sort of
Speaker 4: his life through interviews with people who knew him, and
Speaker 4: I've you know, developed a friendship with Rex Chruerman's wife's attorney.
Speaker 4: His name is Bob Macedonia, and I talked to him
Speaker 4: quite frequently. I realized that people like Hureman are much
Speaker 4: more on a spectrum than I believed initially, in that
Speaker 4: he did appear to do this to spare his own
Speaker 4: family fur their embarrassment because a lot more evidence was
Speaker 4: going to be paraded out publicly had he gone a trial,
Speaker 4: and I think a lot of that was going to
Speaker 4: make things look way worse. So weirdly, I mean, I
Speaker 4: didn't think men like him were capable of caring about
Speaker 4: their families, but it seems to some degree he is,
Speaker 4: or at least he's capable of making these decisions to
Speaker 4: control a narrative around him.
Speaker 1: Because in the last year or so, we have learned
Speaker 1: a lot more about human's wife and daughter, in particular
Speaker 1: because they spoke to a documentary ride what did you
Speaker 1: learn about them?
Speaker 3: Saying that, Wow, So I was.
Speaker 4: In that documentary and I was fascinated. You know, we
Speaker 4: have never seen the aftermath of an arrest of a
Speaker 4: serial killer who was living a double life that up
Speaker 4: close and personally before and that deal for them came
Speaker 4: together so quickly, so we really saw them in shock
Speaker 4: at first, in total denial. So what I've learned about
Speaker 4: that family is that his wife had no idea. Their
Speaker 4: marriage was very traditional as far as like their gender roles.
Speaker 4: She didn't ask questions. He was the breadwinner. He went
Speaker 4: into the city. He commuted about an hour and a
Speaker 4: half each day. He had kind of a separate life
Speaker 4: in Manhattan and because he sort of had control of
Speaker 4: their household in relationships. He would buy her ticket to
Speaker 4: go somewhere and say you're going on this trip, bring
Speaker 4: the kids, And he was doing these things when she
Speaker 4: wasn't home. It's hard to believe that someone could hide
Speaker 4: that much from their spouse and children, but it seems
Speaker 4: he has. And the timeline fits together where he murdered
Speaker 4: a woman days before he married her, and he was
Speaker 4: murdering far long before he married her. So in my opinion,
Speaker 4: I think he chose her because he knew he could
Speaker 4: get away with this with the type of personality she had.
Speaker 1: Well, he certainly has been hiding in planes for decades,
Speaker 1: so that wouldn't be a surprise. Now, can you talk
Speaker 1: us through how news of this plea deal played out?
Speaker 1: How close to trial was he and how did you
Speaker 1: find out it was happening. You said you had a
Speaker 1: bit of an inkling.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I knew beforehand.
Speaker 4: I had heard from a source long before, probably you know,
Speaker 4: six months before it actually happened. And I asked, you know,
Speaker 4: the DA at one of the court appearances about it,
Speaker 4: you know, during one of the press briefings afterwards, and
Speaker 4: then people started asking about it saying, oh, is that
Speaker 4: really on the table? Is that really going to happen?
Speaker 4: And then the rumors kept circulating. So I knew, and
Speaker 4: the trial I think was going to take place. I
Speaker 4: mean they were talking about twenty twenty six, but I
Speaker 4: mean it's hard to know. I mean, the judge was
Speaker 4: getting impatient with all of the pre trial hearings. But
Speaker 4: you know, probably a handful of months out the trial
Speaker 4: was set to start.
Speaker 1: Did we know that he was going to admit to
Speaker 1: an eighth victim as part of that play?
Speaker 3: Do we suspected it?
Speaker 4: We didn't know for sure until we were there, until
Speaker 4: it happened, But every one suspected that he murdered Karen Vergatta.
Speaker 4: That's the woman he admitted to killing, and you know
Speaker 4: that was part of the deal. I always believe that
Speaker 4: he was responsible for her murder. So a lot of
Speaker 4: us who follow the case suspected that, but we weren't
Speaker 4: sure till that day.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us what the actual play deal that
Speaker 2: he agreed to was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So he admitted to the victims.
Speaker 4: He was charged with killing seven of them, and then
Speaker 4: he admitted to Karen Vergatta, who he was just accepting
Speaker 4: responsibility for and in return he is receiving three consecutive
Speaker 4: life sentences. He cannot be prosecuted any further for any
Speaker 4: of these eight victims. However, he can be prosecuted if
Speaker 4: any other murder victims are linked to him in the future,
Speaker 4: like when his DNA is put in codis. If there
Speaker 4: are any other hits, he can be prosecuted for any
Speaker 4: other crimes, which again makes me think that the district
Speaker 4: attorney believes there are more victims. And what's odd in
Speaker 4: what really ruffleds some feathers was that part of this
Speaker 4: deal was that he is to cooperate with the FBI's
Speaker 4: Behavioral Science Unit, which means he's going to be interviewed
Speaker 4: by the FBI. And part of the deal is that
Speaker 4: he's supposed to be completely candid and honest. But a
Speaker 4: serial killer doesn't care about deals or what their commitments.
Speaker 4: We can never know whether he'll be telling the truth.
Speaker 4: And I think that bothered a lot of people too,
Speaker 4: because he's fascinated by the FBI. They found a copy
Speaker 4: of mind Hunter in his house. In his planning document,
Speaker 4: he was taking notes from mind Hunter, and if you're
Speaker 4: not familiar, mind Hunter was written by a former FBI
Speaker 4: agent named John Douglas, who basically was a founding member
Speaker 4: of the FBI's Behavioral Sciences Unit and coined the term
Speaker 4: serial killer. So a lot of people think that Rex
Speaker 4: Yeerman's very excited by this and it's giving him some
Speaker 4: narcissistic validation.
Speaker 1: It's hard because I can say why people would be
Speaker 1: upset by that. But then on the other side, we
Speaker 1: do need to look from people like these so that
Speaker 1: we can catch them in the future and stop them
Speaker 1: in the future.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is value in it, I think, especially because
Speaker 4: serial killers like Rex Hewerman are very rare. There are
Speaker 4: other kind of serial killers, you know, there used to
Speaker 4: be more, you know, but because of technology, serial killers
Speaker 4: operating through digital means, like Rex Huerman was bringing women
Speaker 4: into his house to murder them.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's not really happening anymore.
Speaker 4: The most recent serial killer prior to his arrest was
Speaker 4: I think the Golden State Killer, and he stopped murdering
Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty six, but then, you know, he murdered
Speaker 4: ten people and then it was cold, right, and they
Speaker 4: didn't know who he was. But for people to be
Speaker 4: murdering into two thousand and nine twenty ten, the way
Speaker 4: he was, it's highly highly unusual now, so I think, yeah,
Speaker 4: I think the FBI wants to understand like the compulsive
Speaker 4: nature of his crimes because he didn't really have the
Speaker 4: self preservation, in the self control to stop when he
Speaker 4: should have.
Speaker 1: And the fact that he got away with it for
Speaker 1: that long. Given the world we live in and how
Speaker 1: connected we are and you know, the Internet, it is
Speaker 1: quite unbelievable.
Speaker 3: Really, it's really disturbing. It's really disturbing.
Speaker 4: And you know, because he stopped in twenty ten, it
Speaker 4: really would have been impossible, you know now with the
Speaker 4: way our phones are, cameras are everywhere tracking. I think
Speaker 4: he really got lucky in that time period because he
Speaker 4: was using burner phones and he was using you know,
Speaker 4: sock puppet emails, you know, fake email accounts. But that's
Speaker 4: still now. I feel like if someone was doing that
Speaker 4: right now, they'd be caught. So it's unusual, which is good.
Speaker 4: We should say, yes, right, that's very good.
Speaker 1: Up next, Alexis takes us inside Human's plea hearing, describing
Speaker 1: the atmosphere in the courtroom and what he said during
Speaker 1: the proceedings. You are right at the court for the
Speaker 1: plea hearing at four forty five am to be there
Speaker 1: well at all unfolded, which means you did get to
Speaker 1: see everything. What was that experience like? What was that
Speaker 1: room like when you walked into it? So for the
Speaker 1: sentencing or for the plea hearing, plea hearing. So the
Speaker 1: plea hearing, it was.
Speaker 4: A really it was strange, Like it was more intense
Speaker 4: than the sentencing.
Speaker 3: It was a longer day.
Speaker 4: It was really stressful, and people were there for I
Speaker 4: mean we were there for like hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 4: It was it was intense, you know, it was strange.
Speaker 4: It's it was strange that he was admitting it. It's
Speaker 4: just it's all just very shocking. I still can't believe
Speaker 4: that he did it in the cottom and he admitted it.
Speaker 2: Did he verbally admit it in that hearing.
Speaker 4: So what he did was he provided an allocution, and
Speaker 4: sometimes allocutions are the the deal that is made is
Speaker 4: that they are going to go into detail about what
Speaker 4: they did there on the spot. It's my understanding that
Speaker 4: prior to his plea, he did what was called a proffer,
Speaker 4: which you basically admit everything. It can't be used against
Speaker 4: you in court, it's just for it to strike a
Speaker 4: plea deal. But in court he did an allocution with
Speaker 4: yes or no answers or one word answers. So the
Speaker 4: DA would ask, you know, did you do this, did
Speaker 4: you cause the death of Megan Waterman or Melissa Bartholomy
Speaker 4: on this date? Yes, he would say, and then they
Speaker 4: would say by what means and he would say strangulation,
Speaker 4: And they did that eight times in a row. But
Speaker 4: he wasn't required to go into any further detail. He
Speaker 4: really just admitted that he did it and said how
Speaker 4: he did it.
Speaker 2: And the families were old they to hear of that.
Speaker 2: How did they react?
Speaker 4: I'm not sure all the families were there, you know.
Speaker 4: It's very emotional, you know. I still I don't know
Speaker 4: how the families do it, you know, sitting close to
Speaker 4: a man who took the life of your daughter or sister,
Speaker 4: it's like the thoughts unbearable. The families are strong and
Speaker 4: do everything with grace. So there are things that are said,
Speaker 4: you know, especially during the sentencing. It was a lot
Speaker 4: of things were said by the family in the room.
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, it was. It's devastating to witness, you know,
Speaker 3: and you don't wish it on anyone.
Speaker 2: The play hearing was obviously the first step. Then we
Speaker 2: had the sentencing.
Speaker 1: Did you, as someone that has worked on this case
Speaker 1: for so long, did you think that that play hearing
Speaker 1: gave you or anyone their closure?
Speaker 3: No, I don't think. I don't think closure is possible.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like, was something so senseless in something so I mean,
Speaker 3: he's so pathetic.
Speaker 4: It's like he's this giant man targeting small women to
Speaker 4: feel powerful and in control. And it's what he did
Speaker 4: wasn't hard. What he did was cowardly, you know. So
Speaker 4: I think it's just I can't imagine closure is ever
Speaker 4: going to be had. It's like we don't know the
Speaker 4: rest of it.
Speaker 3: We'll never know.
Speaker 4: But I think for the families, it's like for them
Speaker 4: it was a demarcation line, like I'm done with you.
Speaker 4: I'm going to be focusing on my loved one's memory
Speaker 4: and now I don't have to think about you anymore
Speaker 4: because you're going to be in a cage.
Speaker 1: After cold there were a huge number of press conferences.
Speaker 1: He's defense his wife, who we hadn't really heard from
Speaker 1: the DA. What stood out to you the most from
Speaker 1: that flurry of press conferences?
Speaker 4: So his wife Asa Allerup did address the media. You know,
Speaker 4: she hasn't done much of that. And what I thought
Speaker 4: was really interesting is like the second she was done,
Speaker 4: she had a prepared statement that she read from and
Speaker 4: immediately reporters were questioning, again, how could you not know?
Speaker 3: How did you not know it was happening right in
Speaker 3: front of you?
Speaker 4: And there is still so much suspicion looming over her.
Speaker 4: And what I want to keep conveying is that, you know,
Speaker 4: it's unbelievable for people that she couldn't have known, but
Speaker 4: clearly she didn't because if the district attorney had evidence
Speaker 4: that she had knowledge or was involved, he would have
Speaker 4: delighted in charging her. So they have gone over every
Speaker 4: shred of evidence, her cell phones, her computers. There's just
Speaker 4: no indication that she knew. And I think what, I
Speaker 4: don't think she should be blamed for not knowing. What
Speaker 4: I do think that should do with scare people that
Speaker 4: you could be living with someone lying to you to
Speaker 4: that degree. I mean she was, and she's not the
Speaker 4: first woman to be duped by a serial killer like this.
Speaker 1: Well, she really is a form of a victim in
Speaker 1: all of these too. She's had her life rip to
Speaker 1: shreds as well.
Speaker 4: She has, and you know, she starts as a victim, right,
Speaker 4: and then for every decision she since the arrest, it's
Speaker 4: hard to blame her for all of it. You know,
Speaker 4: the shock, trauma, desperation processing this. I don't know that
Speaker 4: my decisions would be sound. I don't know that I
Speaker 4: would be able to trust my instincts about anything. People
Speaker 4: think her participating in the documentary that the optics were
Speaker 4: poor there. Maybe they were, but maybe she was out
Speaker 4: of options. It's just really hard to judge her after
Speaker 4: the shock and trauma of these revelations that she was
Speaker 4: exposed to.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a bit about the sentencing that only happened
Speaker 1: a week ago from when we're talking. Yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to start with human because we did he briefly from him.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the word cowardly before. I feel like that
Speaker 1: kind of needs to be repeated again here with what
Speaker 1: he said, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So everyone was wondering whether or not he would speak,
Speaker 4: because the defendant is often given that opportunity, and when
Speaker 4: he said yes, was surprised and he began to speak
Speaker 4: and the judge yelled at him.
Speaker 3: The judge was very intense and told him to stand up.
Speaker 4: So then there was like awkward five seconds where he's
Speaker 4: like trying to stand up and he began speaking. He
Speaker 4: said something to the effect of, you know, and I'm paraphrasing,
Speaker 4: my words have no meaning. I am responsible for the
Speaker 4: words that were said today. I'm going to leave it there.
Speaker 4: And he sat back down and the judge looked at
Speaker 4: him sort of annoyed and said, you know, I know
Speaker 4: you're probably sorry for what you put your family through,
Speaker 4: but are you a little sorry for what for murdering
Speaker 4: these innocent women? And he sort of was like yeah,
Speaker 4: but it was so hollow and strange.
Speaker 3: It's like, why say anything at all? I couldn't understand.
Speaker 2: Did he look remosetful at all?
Speaker 4: No, he does not care. This man could not care less.
Speaker 4: It's not funny at all. It's just this man doesn't care.
Speaker 4: He would have done it a million more times. After
Speaker 4: he murdered Melissa Bartholemy, he called to torture her family like,
Speaker 4: this guy loves hurting women, and this guy does not
Speaker 4: feel bad about it. It doesn't matter that he has a daughter,
Speaker 4: their age of when he was killing them, It doesn't
Speaker 4: matter that he's married to a woman.
Speaker 3: He doesn't care.
Speaker 1: In the sentencing, we also had the chance to hear
Speaker 1: from the victims. That's the chance to stand up and
Speaker 1: tell this man what they've done to their lives in
Speaker 1: the form of a victim impact statement. Was that emotional
Speaker 1: hearing from so many family members in that courtroom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 4: It was long too, It was you know, I think
Speaker 4: there were about sixteen total. And yeah, some some made
Speaker 4: you like want to give them a high five because
Speaker 4: they just said the exact right thing that you know,
Speaker 4: just hit him where it hurts.
Speaker 3: You know, these men are narcissists.
Speaker 4: So one of the victim's cousins, her name's Jasmine Robinson,
Speaker 4: basically went over the planning document that rex Huermann had
Speaker 4: written in two thousand about like don't leave DNA behind,
Speaker 4: don't leave her behind, and she's like, well, you didn't
Speaker 4: do that, You couldn't do that, and totally just like
Speaker 4: mocked him, and you could tell he was getting like
Speaker 4: so mad.
Speaker 3: But every single one was compelling.
Speaker 4: Some made you cry, Some made you furious for how
Speaker 4: articulate they were in explaining just the devastation what this
Speaker 4: had done to their lives. You know, Megan Waterman's daughter
Speaker 4: spoke and it's just she lost her mom when she
Speaker 4: was two, and she is left with this like what
Speaker 4: who would I have been? What would I have my
Speaker 4: life have been like had I not had my mom
Speaker 4: ripped from me? And I think that's a really valid
Speaker 4: question and it's so unfair.
Speaker 1: I read that there was even applause when he was
Speaker 1: taken from the room.
Speaker 4: Oh, there was more than that. There was applause. There
Speaker 4: was applause. There were screams from the family saying I
Speaker 4: can't wait till you get raped in jail. Then they
Speaker 4: all started chanting ogre as he was walking out of
Speaker 4: the room, and it was the whole thing was intense
Speaker 4: like that. It was like the energy, the entire hearing.
Speaker 4: You know. One of the victims, Melissa Bartholomey's sister, who
Speaker 4: received the calls, the taunting calls that were made from
Speaker 4: her sister, her murdered sister's phone because he had her phone.
Speaker 3: That's how he called her family.
Speaker 4: So first it's hope, right, she's missing, and now she's
Speaker 4: calling me and she said something like it's been seventeen years.
Speaker 3: Since we spoke.
Speaker 4: And then she's like demanded that he looked at her
Speaker 4: because he'd just been looking ahead like a coward. There
Speaker 4: were a lot of intense moments during her during her
Speaker 4: impact statement, but it was very almost primal.
Speaker 3: I don't know how to explain it over for you.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Do you think, knowing that he is behind bars, he's
Speaker 1: been sentenced without murders, is this over for you? Because
Speaker 1: you know, we don't know how many more there are
Speaker 1: out there. You've been working on this case for so
Speaker 1: many years. What does this mean for you? I don't
Speaker 1: think it's ever going to be over.
Speaker 4: I think it's part of who I am because it's
Speaker 4: not just about this killer and these victims. It's about
Speaker 4: the way women are treated. It's about violence against women.
Speaker 4: It's about sex workers, the demonization of them and not
Speaker 4: the clients or the men who push them and force
Speaker 4: them and traffic them and make them do sex work,
Speaker 4: which is what was happening for the majority of these women. Right.
Speaker 4: So it's never going to be over. I'm always going
Speaker 4: to be speaking out about that. And as long as
Speaker 4: there are victims I believe are connected to him, like
Speaker 4: Asian Doe, who haven't seen justice, I'll always be monitoring
Speaker 4: and tracking. I wish I could do more, you know.
Speaker 4: It's kind of contingent upon what investigators do, whether there's
Speaker 4: any story left here.
Speaker 3: So I do feel like.
Speaker 4: Though, this law enforcement team that has brought him to
Speaker 4: justice is phenomenal, and I'm sure they won't stop if
Speaker 4: they believe he's responsible for more. But it's also not
Speaker 4: done for me because I have a book coming out
Speaker 4: about the case early next year, so I'm gonna be
Speaker 4: probably talking about it for a while because, like I said,
Speaker 4: the implications, it's not him, it's society, you know, and
Speaker 4: I think that's what I'm going to be talking about
Speaker 4: a lot.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Alexis. We really appreciate your updates.
Speaker 1: Of course, thank you to Alexis for joining us on
Speaker 1: this episode. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us
Speaker 1: a rating or review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It
Speaker 1: really helps people define the show. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: I'll be back on Thursday with another true crime Conversation
Speaker 4: Zero