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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma

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Speaker 1: Me's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie. Here's a quick

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Speaker 1: snapshot into how my family Christmas will go. Now, everything

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Speaker 1: will seem fine until either I or my sister says

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Speaker 1: or does something that our dad doesn't like. The tensions

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Speaker 1: will amp up immediately, and he will then become this

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Speaker 1: authoritarian man of the house, advising that what he says goes,

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Speaker 1: while my sister and I act like fifteen year olds.

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Speaker 1: Our mum will try and diffuse the tension, but will

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Speaker 1: only serve to make the situation worse as a fight

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Speaker 1: between dad and daughter's escalates. Sound familiar. Today we look

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Speaker 1: into why family tensions between adult children and their parents

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Speaker 1: often intensify during the holiday season, and how we can

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Speaker 1: try to tame that complex web of emotions and expectations

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Speaker 1: that constrain even the strongest of relationships. But before we

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Speaker 1: jump into family matters, here's the latest from the Quikie newsroom. Monday,

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Speaker 1: December nine. Syrian rebels have overthrown the Bashah Alisade regime.

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Speaker 1: It's now unclear what will happen and who will run

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Speaker 1: the country. The rebels a collection of groups working together

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Speaker 1: known as the HTS, who have origins in Al Qaeda

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Speaker 1: and who the UN has named a terrorist organization aimed

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Speaker 1: to out Alisade, who is generally considered a dictator who

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Speaker 1: has absolute power to rule over the people. He came

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Speaker 1: to power in two thousand after the death of his father,

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Speaker 1: the family now having ruled the country for more than

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Speaker 1: fifty years. There are reports that Alisade has now fled Syria.

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Speaker 1: Many world powers have interests in Syria, with Israel and

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Speaker 1: the US wanting to see the end of the Alisade regime,

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Speaker 1: Iran and Russia wanting Alisade to remain in power, while Turkey,

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Speaker 1: who shares a border with Syria, also has their own

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Speaker 1: agenda in the region. Jewish community leaders have vowed to

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Speaker 1: rebuild a firebombed synagogue in Melbourne bigger and better than

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Speaker 1: it was before. A senior federal and state police meet

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Speaker 1: to determine the motive behind the attack. The ynagogue's three

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Speaker 1: buildings were damaged in the blaze, Police confirming they found

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Speaker 1: a bullet on the footpath near the buildings in Glenira.

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi, who held a press conference about

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Speaker 1: the attack yesterday, says they're looking into whether it could

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Speaker 1: be classified as a terrorism incident. The incident has caused

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Speaker 1: some political unrest in Canberra, with Cabinet Minister Murray Watt

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Speaker 1: accusing Opposition leader Peter Dutton of politicizing the incident, rejecting

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Speaker 1: Dutton's claims that mister Alberanzi hasn't done enough to address

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Speaker 1: anti Semitism, that the government has made Australia a less

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Speaker 1: safe place for Jewish people. Today marks the five year

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Speaker 1: anniversary of the Fakari White Island volcanic eruption that saw

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Speaker 1: twenty two people killed, including seventeen Australians. Maori prayer led

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Speaker 1: the Dawn Servers paying tribute to those who lost their

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Speaker 1: lives in the incident on December nine, twenty nineteen, when

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Speaker 1: forty seven people, mostly tourists, were exploring the active island

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Speaker 1: volcano in New Zealand's Bay of Plenty. Those who did

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Speaker 1: not die in the blast suffered serious burns. Many of

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Speaker 1: the survivors and their families have flown in for the service,

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Speaker 1: including reports Jesse Langford is at the event in Fakatane.

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Speaker 1: Then our twenty four year old suffered burns to almost

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Speaker 1: his entire body when the volcano erupted, waking up to

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Speaker 1: find that he had lost his parents and his sister.

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Speaker 1: Saltburn actor Barry Kyogan has hit back at trolls who've

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Speaker 1: been targeting him after he and singer Sabrina Carpenter broke

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Speaker 1: up amid rumors he cheated. He posted on social media

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Speaker 1: that he can only take so much, saying his name

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Speaker 1: has been dragged across the internet in ways he doesn't

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Speaker 1: usually respond to, but says he now has to because

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Speaker 1: it's getting to a place where there are too many

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Speaker 1: lines being crossed. He says of the hateful messages he's

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Speaker 1: been receiving, that no person should have to read them,

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Speaker 1: that their absolute lies being spread about him amid comments

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Speaker 1: about his appearance, his character, and his parenting, saying people

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Speaker 1: have been calling him a heroin baby, referring to his

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Speaker 1: late mother's substance abuse. Keogan says people have also been

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Speaker 1: intimidating his grandmother, who helped raise him and his two

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Speaker 1: year old son Brando, sitting outside their houses, saying that

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Speaker 1: is crossing a line That's what's going on in the

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Speaker 1: world today. Next, are you preparing for a family fight

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Speaker 1: this Christmas? Does Dad still get on your nerves? Does

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Speaker 1: Mum drive you wild? Do your adult kids make you

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Speaker 1: want to tear your hair out? We're going to speak

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Speaker 1: to a psychologist to try and find tools to navigate

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Speaker 1: those family get togethers.

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Speaker 2: Ah.

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Speaker 1: Christmas a time when families come together to enjoy each

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Speaker 1: other's company and resurface all those old tensions they've been

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Speaker 1: hanging on to for decades. Adult children frequently experience heightened

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Speaker 1: stress when returning home for the holidays, as they find

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Speaker 1: themselves reverting to childhood dynamics despite their independent adult lives now.

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Speaker 1: This phenomenon occurs because many parents struggle to view their

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Speaker 1: children as autonomous adults, continuing to offer unsolicited advice and

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Speaker 1: maintaining outdated expectations, and adult kids can revert back to

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Speaker 1: relying on their parents to be well exactly like their

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Speaker 1: parents have always been. A fact. This SNL s get

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Speaker 1: from twenty fourteen points out that some will fully take advantage. Joe,

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Speaker 1: We're home for Thanksgiving, y'all, and our parents are well

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Speaker 1: happy to die ya, so they're gonna treat us like queens.

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Speaker 2: This may be their house, but for the next four

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Speaker 2: days we about to run this bitch. Walk in the.

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Speaker 1: Door, hemma, bag to the vallet in case you wonder

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Speaker 1: when it's my dad day, head straight to the fridge

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Speaker 1: like I boss y'all. Held yea, my mom went to

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Speaker 1: costco in my husband.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna play real dirty, won't clean it up.

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Speaker 2: Then I roll up to the water laundry game. I'm

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Speaker 2: not gonna do.

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Speaker 1: A hold up for just once because I went back home.

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Speaker 2: BAA.

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Speaker 1: If I want something, I just hold up. I do

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Speaker 1: what I want, and I can't what I want because

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Speaker 1: my parents miss their doubt. The holiday season presents unique challenges.

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Speaker 1: There's the pressure to create a perfect family gathering, which

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Speaker 1: can lead to increased stress and disappointment the prolonged periods

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Speaker 1: are found. The interactions during this time can intensify existing tensions,

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Speaker 1: and for some adults, Christmas can trigger memories of past

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Speaker 1: family difficulties or trauma. These emotional wounds will often resurface

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Speaker 1: during the holiday season, making it particularly challenging for those

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Speaker 1: with complex family histories. Parents may also struggle to accept

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Speaker 1: that their adult children's lifestyle choices are not what they

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Speaker 1: hope for them. Things like their career parts, their relationship choices,

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Speaker 1: or even their personal appearance might be a trigger for them.

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Speaker 1: But this pressure for their kids to conform to previous

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Speaker 1: versions of themselves can also cause significant stress. Many parents

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Speaker 1: also unknowingly cross personal boundaries, offering unsolicited advice or criticism

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Speaker 1: about their adult children's life choices, and that can lead

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Speaker 1: to defensive reactions and emotional distancing. And of course, conflicts

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Speaker 1: can arise from divergent political views, religious beliefs, or lifestyle choices.

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Speaker 1: To help us break down how we can handle all

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Speaker 1: this is Relationships Australian New South Wales CEO Elizabeth Shaw.

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Speaker 1: She is also a practicing clinical and counseling psychologist. Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Why is it sometimes so very hard to break out

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Speaker 1: of that tension loop that we find ourselves in with

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Speaker 1: family members because this stuff can hang around for decades.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, sometimes it really comes down to the habitual

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Speaker 2: patterns where we just never do anything differently, you know,

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Speaker 2: so that we're in the loop. Because we are in

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Speaker 2: the loop, if you like, you know, so it's such

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Speaker 2: a well worn path and what's served up to us

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Speaker 2: is so familiar and our reaction is so familiar that

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Speaker 2: we just keep doing the same thing over and over again.

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Speaker 2: And so part of it is being able to step

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Speaker 2: out and say, well, if this is so predictable and

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Speaker 2: this is just the dance that you know, myself and

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Speaker 2: my parents, for example, always do what is it that

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Speaker 2: I could do differently? Because the other bad habit is

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Speaker 2: we get really preoccupied with the problem of the other person.

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Speaker 2: You know, why is that person always saying or doing

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Speaker 2: this annoying thing rather than and how does it play

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Speaker 2: into what I do? And maybe I'm doing a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff that's keeping the problem.

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Speaker 1: Going to Can we touch on first then this pressure

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Speaker 1: that seems to be on us, And I don't know

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Speaker 1: whether it's all fully media based, Like we see movies

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Speaker 1: about all these families coming together and they're all really

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Speaker 1: happy and everyone's trimming the tree and eating turkey, But

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Speaker 1: there's maybe a level of inadequacy that we feel when

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Speaker 1: our family gathering does not look like that. How do

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Speaker 1: we deal with that pressure?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it is the fantasy that we all have,

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Speaker 2: and it is the lovely image and something that we

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Speaker 2: hope is true or we hope will be true this year.

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Speaker 2: Then we just move towards it, sometimes quite unthinkingly. So

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Speaker 2: if there is repetitive disappointment, we also accept, well, that's

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Speaker 2: part of the deal, as if we can't change it.

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Speaker 2: And there's also obligations that, you know, even if I'd

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Speaker 2: prefer to do even the ritual differently, I feel caught

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Speaker 2: up in something that's bigger than me. So I think

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Speaker 2: there's this combination of hope and helplessness, you know, that

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Speaker 2: draws us towards the end of the year, and added

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Speaker 2: to that, you know, there's tiredness. But there's also stuff

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Speaker 2: that's accumulated through the year. There might have been other

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Speaker 2: family events or birthday moments or whatever it is that

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Speaker 2: have either accumulated hope or accumulated disappointments that can also

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Speaker 2: be loaded onto this next wave of family events that's

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Speaker 2: coming up.

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Speaker 1: How do we discuss with certain family members? And I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes this might be the parents of adult children

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Speaker 1: who would like to recreate Christmas in a similar model

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Speaker 1: each year like they were when they were kids, and

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Speaker 1: don't take into account the fact that their adult children

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Speaker 1: might have partners with other families, or that their parents

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Speaker 1: might be divorced, So they have two sets of families

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Speaker 1: to go to, like, how do we make people understand

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Speaker 1: that they're still important to us even if we don't

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Speaker 1: have the flexibility to just drop everything and be part

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Speaker 1: of that particular family event.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it's complicated because what you're also trying

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Speaker 2: to do is keep everybody engaged. So you're at the

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Speaker 2: same time trying to not make your parents perhaps spiral

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Speaker 2: out into reactivity. You're also trying to maybe keep your

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Speaker 2: new partner not spiraling out or they're in laws spiraling out.

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Speaker 2: So it can feel really delicate, and I think the

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Speaker 2: way forward is really for the couple, you know, being

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Speaker 2: the adult children, to make sure that they're really on

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Speaker 2: the same page, because what I've seen go really badly

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Speaker 2: wrong is when the couple themselves are really unresolved and

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Speaker 2: or reactive or well, if you don't get your parents

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Speaker 2: to fall into line, then you don't really love me,

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Speaker 2: or why should my parents fall into line? If your

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Speaker 2: parents aren't falling into line, that all makes the whole

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Speaker 2: thing a whole lot worse. So the first thing is

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Speaker 2: for the couple themselves to get onto the same page

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Speaker 2: and say, now that we've created a life together, how

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Speaker 2: do we want to show leadership in our family. How

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Speaker 2: do we want to explain to the world who we

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Speaker 2: are and what we're on about and what we need

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Speaker 2: going forward and invite collaboration. So I think that's really

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Speaker 2: critical because if you act it out through the in

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Speaker 2: laws again, you lose your power and you can lose

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Speaker 2: control of it. And then I think as a couple,

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Speaker 2: to be able to represent that to your extended families,

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Speaker 2: not necessarily you don't have to turn up as a

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Speaker 2: united front. If it depends on your family dynamics, what

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Speaker 2: would work. But I think then it would be going

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Speaker 2: to your parents and saying, look, I know this is

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Speaker 2: a break with tradition, and I know it can feel

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Speaker 2: disruptive and maybe I'm asking a lot, but I do

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Speaker 2: have this new partner and they mean a lot to me,

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Speaker 2: and I absolutely want to join in our rituals and

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Speaker 2: I enjoy them too. But now, families moving on, can

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Speaker 2: you work with me to make this work, because I

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Speaker 2: want everybody to kind of nut this out together. I

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Speaker 2: think if you present it from a position of holding

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Speaker 2: on to the best of what you all are and

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Speaker 2: where you'd like to hit and I think to be

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Speaker 2: able to say I've seen a lot of families fall

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Speaker 2: out over this stuff. I want that to happen to

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Speaker 2: our family. But you need to be able to say that,

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Speaker 2: not as a threat, but as a genuine you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm worried for us, or I want the best for us.

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Speaker 2: Can you help me out, Elizabeth?

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Speaker 1: I think the thing that we all want to know

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Speaker 1: how to handle is how do we prepare ourselves for

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Speaker 1: the triggers. There will be something that sets us off

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Speaker 1: and then it just changes the whole dynamic of the day.

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Speaker 1: But how do you stop yourself from reacting to those

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Speaker 1: same old triggers.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of very practical things you can do.

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Speaker 2: So first of all, I think to do a self

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Speaker 2: audit at this time of year. If you know you

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Speaker 2: get triggered, have you stopped to work out how to

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Speaker 2: not be triggered or have you just thought, oh god,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to get triggered again and again get into

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Speaker 2: the problem of the other person. They're going to say

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Speaker 2: that and it really gets to me and I'm sick

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Speaker 2: of them doing that instead of saying, actually, I can

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Speaker 2: choose to step out of the loop, and what can

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Speaker 2: I do to be far more empowered? So I think,

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Speaker 2: first of all get really clear what triggers you and

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Speaker 2: why and own that because somewhere behind the trigger is

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Speaker 2: not just that they're annoying, it's also that you're vulnerable

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Speaker 2: in that area. And how could you manage your vulnerability

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Speaker 2: without just getting defensive, because that's important. If you know

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Speaker 2: that this is difficult for you to manage, think about

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Speaker 2: who else is going to be at table? Do you

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Speaker 2: have allies with cousins or a sibling who knows this

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Speaker 2: vulnerability for you? You could say, look, if you know,

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Speaker 2: great uncle whatever says that same old thing, would you

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Speaker 2: mind stepping in? Or could you create a distraction, or

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Speaker 2: you know, if you see me getting triggered, can you

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Speaker 2: just suggest we do a walk in the garden for

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Speaker 2: a minute, download a meditation app that's three minutes long,

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Speaker 2: and just say got to go to the bathroom and

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Speaker 2: just take a time out. So I think it's being

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Speaker 2: empowered enough to self manage without creating coalitions and alliances

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Speaker 2: at the table, do it in a benevolent way. The

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Speaker 2: other thing that you can do is if there is

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Speaker 2: an important family member you know, someone who you value

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Speaker 2: but sets you off, or there's a habit in the dynamic,

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Speaker 2: is to actually ring them now and say, look, you

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Speaker 2: may or may not realize, but I find it really

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Speaker 2: hard when you say or do this or that, and

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Speaker 2: every year we kind of get into it, and I

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Speaker 2: want better for us. I'd like that not to happen.

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Speaker 2: Can you work with me on this? If you put

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Speaker 2: out an overture like that and they're a decent person,

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Speaker 2: they may well follow your lead if you ring them

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Speaker 2: and accuse them of things and say why do you

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Speaker 2: have to do that? Although sometimes that is what you

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Speaker 2: need to say, But then it might just be that

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Speaker 2: you have that same nasty conversation on the phone rather

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Speaker 2: than at the Christmas table. So I think it is

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Speaker 2: trying to genuinely solve the problem, either by self management

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Speaker 2: or management of the relationship in advance.

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Speaker 1: How do then also set up boundaries with family members

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Speaker 1: without it seemingly becoming confrontational, Like say, you know, you

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Speaker 1: in a relationship that your family doesn't approve of, or

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Speaker 1: they don't like something about your appearance. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you've got tattoos and they hate it, or maybe

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Speaker 1: your career choice is not what they wanted for you.

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Speaker 1: How do you stop the unsolicited advice or the judgment

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Speaker 1: that you might get from family members and set up

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Speaker 1: good boundaries.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, it's about both things. We can't always control

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Speaker 2: what other people say or do. We can control our

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Speaker 2: reaction to it, even though that's hard. So part of

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Speaker 2: it is saying something more directly outside of the moment

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Speaker 2: it might be. Look, whenever we cross paths, you comment

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Speaker 2: on my tattoos. I know they don't make you comfortable.

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Speaker 2: I know you wish I hadn't got them, but I

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Speaker 2: have got them, and I want you to respect You

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Speaker 2: know it's too late now, and it's upsetting that you

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Speaker 2: just keep mentioning it, and can I respectfully ask you

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Speaker 2: to stop. I think it is saying it upfront but

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Speaker 2: recognizing it's not their thing or you know, you may

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Speaker 2: not realize that every year when you ask me why

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Speaker 2: I'm still single in front of everyone, is actually very

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Speaker 2: provocative thing to say, and it hurts my feelings. And

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Speaker 2: if you've got questions, ask me now. So I think

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Speaker 2: get in first. A lot of people don't intend to

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Speaker 2: be nasty. They're not managing their own stuff, and these

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Speaker 2: family events often go for hours, so as the hours pass,

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Speaker 2: and realistically, maybe you don't have ours worth of conversation

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Speaker 2: people tend to spiral into well worn tracks, so I

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Speaker 2: think it's also keeping in play different sorts of conversations.

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Speaker 2: Talk about it in advance and have some well prepared

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Speaker 2: lines so to say, well, now this year, because I

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Speaker 2: know that I'll always be asked this or that question,

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Speaker 2: what's going to be my clever reply this year? Or

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Speaker 2: what am I going to do to distract from that?

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Speaker 2: And sometimes it is a very boundary line, like oh, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't really have anything new to say from last year,

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Speaker 2: which is a non answer, you know, but it's a

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Speaker 2: light answer. It's a boundary. It potentially can be the

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Speaker 2: end of the conversation. Or it might be oh, look,

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Speaker 2: I just don't discuss that private stuff in public, as

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Speaker 2: you know, let's take it offline, you know, let's talk

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Speaker 2: about it another time again. Just a light moment that

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Speaker 2: salvage is their pride because they've said the wrong thing,

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Speaker 2: but makes it really clear you're not going to go there.

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Speaker 2: Just have an answer. Or it might be oh, well,

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Speaker 2: here's the moment in the family lunch where we discuss

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Speaker 2: my tattoos, So let's get this out of the way.

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Speaker 2: If you can look sort of smiling and cheerful, but

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Speaker 2: firm in your response. Sometimes that can show leadership without

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Speaker 2: it looking defensive or angry.

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Speaker 1: Just finally, Elizabeth, what advice do you have for adult

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Speaker 1: children who may be choosing to not engage with their

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Speaker 1: parents this year, who've decided to step away from the

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Speaker 1: family entirely to give themself space to heal or to

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Speaker 1: understand what their own boundaries are. What advice do you

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Speaker 1: have for those people who are maybe wondering, you know,

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Speaker 1: is it time that I'm allowing myself to come back

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Speaker 1: into that family or should I remain separate, you know,

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Speaker 1: for my own sanity? What advice do you have for them?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think when there's been absolute harm done, stepping

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Speaker 2: back makes perfect sense. Or if you know that you're

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Speaker 2: in the middle of some work of your own and

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Speaker 2: you are vulnerable to being triggered and you don't have

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Speaker 2: confidence you can manage it differently. To be able to

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Speaker 2: say I'm going to be kind to myself this year

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Speaker 2: and not put myself in the path of it can

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Speaker 2: be really smart, I think, particularly if you just think

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Speaker 2: more harm would be done on both sides. The key

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Speaker 2: to it is to think about the longer term. If

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Speaker 2: you think, look I do want these people in my life,

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Speaker 2: but at the moment we're in a bad point and

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Speaker 2: I can't do this right now. Is to communicate that

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Speaker 2: so that you're in control of the narrative, to be

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Speaker 2: able to say I am going to participate in family events.

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Speaker 2: I'm not well placed to do it this year. I

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Speaker 2: don't feel up to it, really, you know, look forward

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Speaker 2: to rejoining in the future when we can progress some things,

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Speaker 2: or when I've progressed some things. I think trying to

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Speaker 2: keep that bigger picture, positive narrative and own i'm not

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Speaker 2: to it this year. I think it makes you a

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Speaker 2: smaller target in some ways. Sometimes it may be to

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Speaker 2: say I don't like what's happening between us right now.

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Speaker 2: I look forward to us being in a better spot,

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Speaker 2: but we're not there yet. I mean again, I think

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Speaker 2: it just keeps the relationship in play while you set

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Speaker 2: the boundary and see what you can achieve in advance

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Speaker 2: of the event. Ideally, it hopefully will be leaveage to say, look,

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Speaker 2: if we want to correct this, will you do some

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Speaker 2: work with me on the relationship during the next year

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Speaker 2: so that we can be in a better place to

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Speaker 2: come together in the future.

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Speaker 1: As Elizabeth advised research backs up the constructive engagement strategies

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Speaker 1: lead to better parent child relationships compared to confrontational or

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Speaker 1: avoidant approaches. Use clear, non confrontational language to help maintain

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Speaker 1: your boundaries while expressing your needs and concerns. Create organized,

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Speaker 1: predictable holiday gatherings with defined time frames and activities, so

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Speaker 1: for those who do feel the pressure at this time,

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Speaker 1: it can help reduce anxiety intension. Understand that family relationships

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Speaker 1: evolve and require ongoing adjustment from both parents and adult children.

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Speaker 1: To navigate those changing dynamics, parents must recognize their adult

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Speaker 1: children's independence, while adult children can work to establish healthy

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Speaker 1: boundaries without completely severing family ties. And if you aren't

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Speaker 1: able to navigate this on your own, speak to a

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Speaker 1: professional like Elizabeth. They might be able to find the

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Speaker 1: middle ground you've been searching for, allowing both generations to

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Speaker 1: maintain meaningful connections while preserving their emotional well being. And

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Speaker 1: may you have a happy and trigger free Christmas. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for taking the time to feed your mind with us today.

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Speaker 1: The quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our

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Speaker 1: executive producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by Teag and

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Speaker 1: Sadler