Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: I was kind of the one that made the first move.
Speaker 1: I was just painting one day in front of the
Speaker 1: and I was standing in front of the easel and
Speaker 1: it just came to me clear as a bell.
Speaker 2: It was like, you need to do.
Speaker 1: It right now. And I literally legged it to the
Speaker 1: birth death marriages and got a divorce kid and then
Speaker 1: served it to him. Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Kate Lanebrook and welcome to No Filter. I don't
Speaker 2: think you could find anyone in Australia who doesn't absolutely
Speaker 2: adore Poling. Now, even if people don't know, she's got
Speaker 2: three names, and her name isn't just Poe. I mean
Speaker 2: those are my words, not hers, And honestly, I think
Speaker 2: it made her a little bit uncomfortable when I said
Speaker 2: it to her face, but it's true. There's something about Poe.
Speaker 2: She's one of those rare people who bring sunshine into
Speaker 2: any room she walks into. Now you might know her
Speaker 2: as an artist, a chef, a TV presenter. She wears
Speaker 2: many hats, but that's just the public side of Poe.
Speaker 2: Because behind the scenes. Her story is rich and deep
Speaker 2: and at times painful. She spent years in the church
Speaker 2: before walking away from it, which left her untangling years
Speaker 2: of belief and identity. She's navigated profound grief, not just
Speaker 2: in the traditional sense of loss, but also through the
Speaker 2: heartbreak of two major relationship breakdowns. In this conversation, Poe
Speaker 2: opens up about all of it, about the loneliness, the questioning,
Speaker 2: the rebuilding. She says she's often felt like an alien
Speaker 2: trying to work out where she fits. But through it all,
Speaker 2: she's discovered something quite extraordinary, and she shares it an
Speaker 2: ability to find beauty in the sorrow, light in the mess,
Speaker 2: and humor in the most unexpected places. This is a
Speaker 2: conversation about identity, resilience, creativity, CONGI, and what it means
Speaker 2: to start over again and again. But we started with
Speaker 2: a bit of a laugh as I needed Poe's help
Speaker 2: on a very urgent problem I had. I need you
Speaker 2: in a professional capacity as well as your divine personal self.
Speaker 2: So after this, by the time people hear this, you
Speaker 2: will have been on the Sampang show. Yes, you will
Speaker 2: have been pushed into a Christmas tree, which is the
Speaker 2: ultimate honor. On that show.
Speaker 1: It's amazing that that was on my list.
Speaker 3: Well, and who even knew that that was a thing.
Speaker 2: I did the show last night and made the mistake
Speaker 2: of having dinner with them after the show. Yes, I'm
Speaker 2: very shabby. I'm wearing the same book. Oh so, Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, you're hilarious. Yes, it's terrible. It comes.
Speaker 1: Did you do Walk of Shame to work today?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I did exactly, and I thought I'll poell understand.
Speaker 1: I totally understand. I love it.
Speaker 2: What would you make someone who's hungover?
Speaker 1: Oh congie? Oh the rice poy because it's got ginger,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's like very warming and slurpy.
Speaker 2: Oh so not a fried thing?
Speaker 1: No, oh yeah, I would do conji. And then you
Speaker 1: have all the pickles and stuff like that with it.
Speaker 2: Really okay because I am a bit pickled, are you?
Speaker 2: So you don't need any more pickles? And you know
Speaker 2: the other thing, because people were talking us, in fact,
Speaker 2: everyone that I've mentioned that I'm going to be talking
Speaker 2: to you, yeaes seed. Everyone's like, this will not come
Speaker 2: as a surprise to you. Oh my god, I love Poe.
Speaker 1: It's so lovely.
Speaker 2: It's so lovely. But I need to know who hates Poe, who.
Speaker 1: Hates po people out there? I'm sure, But do you
Speaker 1: know what's really interesting? I think if you because on
Speaker 1: my socials they don't really show up. Now that I've
Speaker 1: now that I've said this, they will. And the more
Speaker 1: commercial you become, the more invite of course. So when
Speaker 1: I was at the ABC, I had a lot of
Speaker 1: Nan haters Nan. Yeah, like on the ABC that stupid
Speaker 1: girl and her fake last that kind of thing. And
Speaker 1: also I saw that in that little cut she put
Speaker 1: the salt in and the salt still on the table.
Speaker 2: Oh I can't you know that kind of thing? Well
Speaker 2: that not really.
Speaker 3: You know, you say proper travel through life?
Speaker 2: Yeah, deeply and resoundingly loved, which is very unusual from
Speaker 2: someone who occupies a public space.
Speaker 1: That makes me feel so uncomfortable, I know.
Speaker 2: But it is quite an extraordinary thing. No one ever
Speaker 2: goes op pos. She's very polarized.
Speaker 3: It's just not a phrase that exists, is it.
Speaker 1: Look, whenever I say this, I feel very self conscious
Speaker 1: because it sounds like I'm giving myself a pat on
Speaker 1: the back, But I'm not. I feel so loved by
Speaker 1: the Australian public generally and I'm so grateful for it,
Speaker 1: and I want to acknowledge it because I feel so.
Speaker 2: Fortunate to have that.
Speaker 1: And I don't know why, but there are lots of
Speaker 1: people that are annoyed by me. They pop up once
Speaker 1: in a while, not not lots a few.
Speaker 2: People out there. I think maybe with your maybe with
Speaker 2: your like market benchure, maybe with jam face, your cooking business,
Speaker 2: there'd be some other people that are like I was
Speaker 2: making those biscuits before Poe or some kind of like
Speaker 2: little yeah, little yeah or something yeah.
Speaker 1: And I've had people get really mad at me because
Speaker 1: I couldn't come out and like, you know, sign a
Speaker 1: napkin when I was in the middle of running the bakery.
Speaker 1: I don't realize that they're not watching Telly. I'm actually
Speaker 1: an accounted for body at work, do.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So and then they're like, you know, she snubbed me,
Speaker 1: And I was like, I didn't snub you. I just
Speaker 1: was like in the middle of serving like thirty customers.
Speaker 2: Well, because this is a very interesting thing about you
Speaker 2: as well. So you're an artist. I think people know that.
Speaker 2: I think so yeah, before you started like cooking, yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you have your own business. I do you live in Adelaide, Yes,
Speaker 2: and your business is run by you? Yes, it is.
Speaker 2: So you don't have a commercial kitchen where you've got minions. No. No.
Speaker 1: So I tried to have a cafe and I had
Speaker 1: it for about five years. I'm really bad with time.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so am I? Yeah? I think I had
Speaker 2: it for about five yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I thought that's
Speaker 2: what I was on.
Speaker 3: The tax department will leave you.
Speaker 2: No, I'm more good there.
Speaker 1: So I had I had the farmer's market first, right,
Speaker 1: because I wanted to just dip my toe into it.
Speaker 2: And then and then.
Speaker 1: It went really well. So we opened a cafe and
Speaker 1: I found it. It was great for three years, but
Speaker 1: I literally had to put my life on hold. It
Speaker 1: felt like I had birth like quads overnight because I
Speaker 1: and I was quite aware of this that I have
Speaker 1: no skills in managing people and training as well. It's
Speaker 1: so difficult, and because I've spent most of my life
Speaker 1: working solo as an artist, it's always about just I
Speaker 1: hand me expressing my love of a thing that I
Speaker 1: love to do. And when it turned into that, I
Speaker 1: hated it and I thought I had to go back
Speaker 1: to the beginning. So I got rid of the cafe
Speaker 1: and just went back to the farm, which I'd had
Speaker 1: the whole time.
Speaker 2: When you say we, who was we? Also?
Speaker 1: So me my and my two business partners, which is
Speaker 1: my ex and.
Speaker 2: My hang on.
Speaker 3: Which this is the other thing that people may may
Speaker 3: know about you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you you were married, Yes, you were married
Speaker 2: to Matt. Right, and you were married to Matt because
Speaker 2: you seem to have these ten year cycles in your life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I do. Yeah, So Matt I was
Speaker 1: with for ten years and then when John I was
Speaker 1: twelve years Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, so John I was your second husband and Matt
Speaker 2: your first husband. You met while you were a mormal, Yeah,
Speaker 2: which I find extraordinary because I was raised to Jehovah's
Speaker 2: witness And you know, people always get those religions mixed up.
Speaker 1: They do because they prosely both.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Run so which yeah? Door knock, yeah, door knock? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Did you do that?
Speaker 1: I did do it did a month in my home town.
Speaker 2: Yes, you were a little bad or sister yow and
Speaker 2: you so you would knock on people's doors? And is
Speaker 2: that the Church of Latter day Saints? It is?
Speaker 3: So you would say you knock on the door.
Speaker 1: Hello, I'm sister, I'm from the Church of that Day Saints.
Speaker 1: Would you have a moment so that we could give
Speaker 1: you a message? Right? And if they had a moment,
Speaker 1: what would the message be, Well, we'd go in, we'd
Speaker 1: present the Book of Mormons. So much it was like
Speaker 1: just dissipated. I had a terrible memory, and which.
Speaker 2: I think is a blessing, by the way, I think
Speaker 2: so too. Do you know what?
Speaker 1: I used to think that I was really resilient because
Speaker 1: there's been a few things in my life that some
Speaker 1: people would consider to be quite traumatic, but I have
Speaker 1: I don't. I kind of just slip out of them
Speaker 1: pretty pretty easily. And I used to think it's because
Speaker 1: I was resilient, but I actually think.
Speaker 2: You can't remember it. But you know, it's an interesting
Speaker 2: thing about humans because we have a capacity to remember
Speaker 2: the good things. That's why people have more than one child.
Speaker 1: Yes, And also when you've broken up with someone, you
Speaker 1: often find yourself reminiscing just the good times.
Speaker 2: Yes, not the that's right. Yeah, but when you talk
Speaker 2: about traumatic things, is one of them the breakup with
Speaker 2: your first husband?
Speaker 1: Yeah, both breakups, and then like like mum's passing, you know,
Speaker 1: I was away for that.
Speaker 2: Which was just shit. Were you overseas it was?
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: What part of your life were you in when when
Speaker 2: this happened. Where were you at? I was in a
Speaker 2: really good place.
Speaker 1: And I was in I was I was actually when
Speaker 1: she got ill. Because mom and I have always had
Speaker 1: this slightly spiky relationship.
Speaker 2: And let me grapple with the concept of the daughter
Speaker 2: having a spine exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing, isn't it. It's female female, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just always fe in the head. Oh my god, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also because you were raised as well by
Speaker 2: your auntie Kim, who you were very close to.
Speaker 3: Yes, so there was that tension between.
Speaker 2: Your mum and yeah little.
Speaker 1: Bit yeah yeah, not her sister, her auntie, her aunt Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're great auntie, yeah, my great auntie right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there's always been these little tensions and it just
Speaker 1: is the way it is. And before she passed away,
Speaker 1: she actually said to me, you know, I know, whenever
Speaker 1: there's these rifts in the house with all the women,
Speaker 1: you because her and Auntie just squabbled NonStop, and she says,
Speaker 1: you know, you need to think about the fact that
Speaker 1: she came to live with us when your brother was born,
Speaker 1: shortly after your brother was born, So she's kind of
Speaker 1: been around our whole lives. Dad and I have never
Speaker 1: really been on our own.
Speaker 2: And so she came out from Malaysia with you, Yes
Speaker 2: she did, which is an amazing uprooting. Is she devoted
Speaker 2: her life to you, yeah, and your family, yeah, your brother. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She never had her own life. She never dated, never
Speaker 1: had any relationships. She kind of just devoted herself to
Speaker 1: my family. And she was adopted, and so she was
Speaker 1: always kind of this outcast in the family in a way.
Speaker 1: And I think she just found something.
Speaker 2: With us that she really loved.
Speaker 1: She was only supposed to come and help mum look
Speaker 1: after my brother for a little while, but she ended
Speaker 1: up never leaving because she loved it so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: being with us, and I think.
Speaker 2: She's your mom loved that she did. I don't think she.
Speaker 1: Knows any better because imagine having being young and having
Speaker 1: like an older woman come and help you. It would
Speaker 1: be divided, yeah, which is what it is back in
Speaker 1: the day, right, Like it's quite common for grandparents extended family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And it's the other way, because you know,
Speaker 1: I was reading this thing about how to raise independent
Speaker 1: children recently and it's it's it's so hard. Now, that's
Speaker 1: why there's just so many issues with the youth, because
Speaker 1: the resources are half. So many single parents, yes, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's across all so socioeconomic.
Speaker 2: And even if it's not single parents. I remember reading
Speaker 2: once the nuclear family is two people doing the work
Speaker 2: of the tribe. That's right. Why did I think of
Speaker 2: that when I had four children and my husband and
Speaker 2: I would sometimes look like it is it's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so you had this and particularly in Asian families. Well two.
Speaker 2: So your auntie came without that familial lineage, yes, because
Speaker 2: she was adopted. Yeah, yeah, so she was looking for
Speaker 2: her place, I think so.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was adopted as a baby, so she's
Speaker 1: very loved by all the extended family. But there was
Speaker 1: something about our situation that I think gave her purpose
Speaker 1: and she really loved. Yeah, I think looking after my
Speaker 1: brother and myself and me.
Speaker 2: And so when you were overseas, your mom said to
Speaker 2: you before you went away.
Speaker 1: Yes, she said go and I checked in with her.
Speaker 1: But I wish I hadn't. I wish I had just
Speaker 1: used my intuition, and the way I had to unpack
Speaker 1: it was to understand that I'm a bit of a
Speaker 1: risk taker and I just took a really bad risk.
Speaker 1: And I think if I had my way again, I
Speaker 1: probably would have done the same thing, because it's my
Speaker 1: nature to do that. Yes, And that's how I've been
Speaker 1: able to get over it. Yes, it's just to accept
Speaker 1: that that crap decision was probably always going to be
Speaker 1: that crap decision? Do you know what I'm saying? Because
Speaker 1: of my nature?
Speaker 2: But how important do you think?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 2: This is always a thing in grief and loss and
Speaker 2: farewelling someone who's you know, one of the only two
Speaker 2: trees in your orchard? Yeah a parents, Yeah you've still
Speaker 2: have got three trees. Would it have been more important
Speaker 2: for her for you to be there or more important
Speaker 2: for you to be there?
Speaker 1: I think both. I think she would have loved it
Speaker 1: if I was there. But it's interesting when I do
Speaker 1: feel there is I definitely feel like people choose to go. Yes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I go because she waited till I was in a
Speaker 1: position where I shouldn't have had any reception. I was
Speaker 1: on some weird like hell in this I don't know
Speaker 1: where I was.
Speaker 2: I don't know where you were.
Speaker 1: I was, I I was Where were you? I was
Speaker 1: in Austria or like sound of music ish, No, No,
Speaker 1: I wasn't in Austria. Where was I Vienna? I think
Speaker 1: I was in Vienna? Yeah, Schnitzel, Yeah yeah, And so
Speaker 1: Fay you said that, because that actually came to my
Speaker 1: mind when I was trying to figure out I was anyway,
Speaker 1: And so you know how funny it is like with
Speaker 1: certain people they would know exactly the time, the place,
Speaker 1: but I'm just I don't care anyway.
Speaker 2: It's it's a feeling for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And so I I had just gotten a text from
Speaker 1: my god sister, Mum's goddaughter and she said, hey, I
Speaker 1: think you should FaceTime your mom now, and I was
Speaker 1: like okay. So I was like okay, good luck to
Speaker 1: me and managed to talk and everyone was around her
Speaker 1: at that point, and I was like, hi, Mom, and
Speaker 1: I already made a decision. I said, hey, I'm going
Speaker 1: to come home really really soon. And I really met
Speaker 1: the next day, but I didn't want to sort of
Speaker 1: stir her up too much.
Speaker 2: She looked really really weak.
Speaker 1: And she said no, no, no, she goes you just stay
Speaker 1: and finish your thing. And I could feel she really
Speaker 1: meant it, and I think it's because she knew she
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be able to hang on for that long.
Speaker 1: But pretty much after she spoke to me, like hours later,
Speaker 1: she passed away, like maybe eight hours later, eight or
Speaker 1: ten hours.
Speaker 2: Like were you on the plane then or no?
Speaker 1: I was asleep, so I'd gone to bed, and the
Speaker 1: next day I was, yeah, I was about to come home,
Speaker 1: but I yeah, then it was just like speedy get
Speaker 1: on the first plane.
Speaker 2: And where were you in relation to your personal relationships
Speaker 2: at that time? Single? Sproken up with Johno?
Speaker 1: And I was just, yeah, I've been in a really
Speaker 1: good place for like years now.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Very single, Yeah, very single, A very single, very single
Speaker 1: and not dating? You're not dating and.
Speaker 3: Now not dating? No, I don't know how, Kate, No,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I imagine, imagine if he.
Speaker 1: Was single right now, how would you do it? I
Speaker 1: literally how to do it? Like I don't have any solutions.
Speaker 1: To keep asking people and they're like, you know, Raya whatever,
Speaker 1: Like no, it's.
Speaker 2: Just but how did you meet? Like John O? So
Speaker 2: he was a.
Speaker 1: Runner on Master Chef last season one was a member.
Speaker 2: When you said that was two thousand and nine nine, ye,
Speaker 2: where you sprang onto our greens and obviously you'd caught
Speaker 2: his eye.
Speaker 1: Yes, we caught each other's eyes.
Speaker 3: And at what point did you realize that was going
Speaker 3: to be.
Speaker 1: I think it was he had kind of sort of
Speaker 1: like thirty kind of personality, and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's all the girls.
Speaker 2: He's doing it to all the girls.
Speaker 1: But then I kind of realized there was definitely some
Speaker 1: kind of proper energy there. And it was interesting because
Speaker 1: it became a very traditional kind of old fashioned courtship
Speaker 1: because we're not allowed to frat nines with us with
Speaker 1: the crew, no, Hjara really onto that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good old day.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah, and there ever was such a thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it was just like sort of reduced
Speaker 1: to little cute looks across the yard. And he used
Speaker 1: to travel us back and from the house to the
Speaker 1: studio and so we'd sort of just have a little
Speaker 1: look in the rearview vision mirror that was it, and
Speaker 1: then say hi to each other, hello and goodbye. So
Speaker 1: it's very cute, yeah, very bronze sisters. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's so he just saw.
Speaker 3: A glimpse of your stocking dangle.
Speaker 2: And there is That's not all of my conversation with Poe.
Speaker 2: Coming up after the break, we talk about the first
Speaker 2: ever season of Mastershif, the very definitive decision for Poe
Speaker 2: to leave her husband, her first husband, and Poe reveals
Speaker 2: a sneaky intensity in her personality. What Don't Go Anywhere?
Speaker 2: That was a remarkable season. Yeah, it wasn't that season one,
Speaker 2: Yeah it was.
Speaker 1: It was the thing like we all went into it
Speaker 1: just not knowing what any reality TV wasn't even really
Speaker 1: a big thing then, and so the word amongst the
Speaker 1: crew was just like this is mad, like to do
Speaker 1: a reality TV cooking show in Australia.
Speaker 2: It's just such a weird idea.
Speaker 1: And then as the show went on again through whispers
Speaker 1: of the because we were on proper lockdown in season
Speaker 1: for like the first few years, I think we were
Speaker 1: all on proper lockdowns, like because it was you had
Speaker 1: time ten minute two time to ten minute phone calls
Speaker 1: a week or not prison, its proper prison.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And like how long did the shooting of
Speaker 2: the series take?
Speaker 1: Five months?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it went because I went all the way
Speaker 1: to the end.
Speaker 2: You sure did, I sure did. And then how was
Speaker 2: that for your family?
Speaker 1: They they loved it. They had no idea, obviously, no
Speaker 1: one knew what it was going to be, but it
Speaker 1: was such a It was such an amazing experience for me,
Speaker 1: and I see it all the time now as a judge,
Speaker 1: where people who have felt disconnected to their families find
Speaker 1: connection when they come on the show because it's something
Speaker 1: for the whole family to rally behind and they just.
Speaker 2: Find a way to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just find that solidarity again, which is so nice.
Speaker 1: And I didn't. It wasn't like my family was broken
Speaker 1: up or anything. But I think my parents had always
Speaker 1: been a bit worried about me because I've lived such
Speaker 1: an unorthodox path.
Speaker 2: Yes, and they were very orthodox in their desires for you.
Speaker 1: No, I give them a lot of credit for that.
Speaker 1: As migrant parents, they weren't sort of like you have
Speaker 1: to be a doctor or an accountant or anything like that.
Speaker 3: But they came to Australia because they wanted, yes for you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Kate, I was such a dunce student,
Speaker 1: like I just kind of you want yeah, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was a little daydreamer, So I was terrible academically, which
Speaker 1: is all it's about. When you're in an Asian country.
Speaker 1: There's very little sort of focus on social or sport
Speaker 1: or any kind of like social development activities. It's more
Speaker 1: just all about academia. And I just failed, so dismally.
Speaker 1: I was at the back, cutting up my graph paper
Speaker 1: into noodles and scratching coins and making a little hawk
Speaker 1: a store in the back, pencils to season at mass.
Speaker 2: Always in my own little world.
Speaker 1: So they're like, Okay, I think this is going to
Speaker 1: be a but interesting food interesting, don't forget the season
Speaker 1: because we had a lot of street store So I
Speaker 1: used to love that was like a favorite thing of
Speaker 1: mine to watch all the street vendors cook.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I would just do that.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, my parents, my parents, my mum, I
Speaker 1: think mainly recognize that I had a dubious academic future there.
Speaker 1: And her brothers were already living in Adelaide.
Speaker 2: They were borders. Yep, they were borders.
Speaker 1: They finished school, studied, you know, had really you know,
Speaker 1: went to university there, married there, so they were settled.
Speaker 1: And back then it was quite easy to sponsor a
Speaker 1: relative over. It's much harder now. So yeah, we came
Speaker 1: over to infrastructure family.
Speaker 2: And so you were like eight or nine?
Speaker 1: Was nine?
Speaker 2: I turned nine on the plane. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: So every time it's my birthdate, it's also the anniversary
Speaker 1: of how long we've been in Estra.
Speaker 2: And then I think this is so interesting because okay,
Speaker 2: twofold one migrant families who either have two kind of responses,
Speaker 2: because my parents were migrants as well, that either they
Speaker 2: run to Australia yep, open arms and like land of opportunity,
Speaker 2: or they enclave themselves. Yes, your parents sound like they
Speaker 2: were like, this is the land of opportunity, Land of opportunity,
Speaker 2: for sure. And you felt that even as a nine
Speaker 2: year old.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, yes, I remember. I felt like
Speaker 1: my childhood had a very dark energy to it. I
Speaker 1: felt very out of place. It's really weird, Like it's
Speaker 1: so distinct to me. It's that feeling thing again right
Speaker 1: where I just felt always like an alien, like I'd
Speaker 1: been beamed in from somewhere else, right, like that you
Speaker 1: didn't quite belong to you. No, No, I didn't understand
Speaker 1: my world. Like when I went to school, everything was
Speaker 1: just mumbo jumbo, and I remember just thinking I feel odd,
Speaker 1: like I feel all the time, and it's how got
Speaker 1: beamed in. And then as soon as my mum said
Speaker 1: to me we're moving to Australia, it was like lightning
Speaker 1: struck my head. I was like, oh my god, everything's
Speaker 1: gonna make sense, everythings gonna be fine. Like it was
Speaker 1: like a no. I always describe it as a knowing, right,
Speaker 1: not an inkling, but like I knew. And then when
Speaker 1: we landed, and I'm sorry if you've read or heard this,
Speaker 1: but I always talk about how when we were just
Speaker 1: traveling back to my uncle's house, I remember just I
Speaker 1: felt like Alice in Wonderland. I remember even finding all
Speaker 1: the street signs really beautiful, right. I was just enamored
Speaker 1: with Australia immediately, in giness, the sparsness, those wide Adelaide roads, yeah,
Speaker 1: compared to where you'd come from, which I imagine had
Speaker 1: some density and yeah yeah, and that sort of. I
Speaker 1: used to always find the humidity really.
Speaker 2: Oppressive.
Speaker 1: Oppressive, yeah, And I remember just loving like the dry
Speaker 1: heat and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so weird.
Speaker 1: And right away, I I like, I was fine at school,
Speaker 1: I performed really well. And did you speak English?
Speaker 2: I did? Right, So your family spoke English? Yeah, you're right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So that would have made it easy. Yeah, heaps easier, Yeah,
Speaker 2: heaps easy. But then often people like to focus on
Speaker 2: their difference, like when they arrived, did you have a
Speaker 2: sensation that you were not like the other ones? Yes?
Speaker 1: I was incredibly shy, so I remember having Yeah, even
Speaker 1: though I felt at home in Australia, still had that feeling,
Speaker 1: but not in a way that felt dark. It was
Speaker 1: like it was like I don't know how to explain it,
Speaker 1: because all these kids just rallied around me and protected me.
Speaker 1: It was so beautiful, like my experience coming to Australia
Speaker 1: was beautiful. It was like textbook perfect. But I would
Speaker 1: look at them they were my friends, but I would
Speaker 1: look at them in all like I can never I
Speaker 1: will never be able to be like you. Because Pip,
Speaker 1: who was like sort of I guess, the leader of
Speaker 1: the gang that I was in, she would ride to
Speaker 1: school every morning, and I remember thinking that was amazing
Speaker 1: because I could ride a.
Speaker 2: Bike and just would you have been allowed to ride
Speaker 2: a bike?
Speaker 1: Probably not? No, not to school, no no. And I
Speaker 1: remember thinking wow, for her to have that kind of
Speaker 1: independence at her age was just mind blowing to me.
Speaker 1: And then just to see like I used to find
Speaker 1: things that were very ordinary, Like I would find a
Speaker 1: way to think I could never be that cool. Like
Speaker 1: she would open her lunch box and it was like
Speaker 1: one of those refrigerated ones ylation, and I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that'd be cool enough to have a lunch box that
Speaker 1: has I have resolation? What did you take it with
Speaker 1: munch and never be cool enough to have a vegemite
Speaker 1: sandwich and barbecue shapes and sultanas. It's just weird because
Speaker 1: I had fried rice and that was just like oh my.
Speaker 2: God, yeah yeah yeah, and a smell yeah, and it
Speaker 2: was like yeah under.
Speaker 1: The foil and eat things with a spoon. I was like,
Speaker 1: bloody hell, I just want a sandwich. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But at some point that became your strength. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: took me a while. Well it does take a while.
Speaker 2: But at what point did you Yeah, when were you
Speaker 2: when you started to go, oh, these things that you
Speaker 2: know to be an outlier or an observer in youth,
Speaker 2: I think stands you in good stead as an adult. Okay,
Speaker 2: sometimes so late, I would say.
Speaker 1: When I was maybe nineteen or twenty, yeah, way past school,
Speaker 1: and I think maybe going to Canada, I had a
Speaker 1: lot to do.
Speaker 3: Oh and what was the calling in Canada?
Speaker 1: So I was in Utah, right, oh, China to the
Speaker 1: Mormon find a husband, no joke, thinking maybe I might
Speaker 1: find a husband.
Speaker 2: When did you become a Mormon?
Speaker 1: Then when I was sixteen? No, fifteen, fifteen, sixteen, yeah,
Speaker 1: around then.
Speaker 2: What religion were your parents?
Speaker 1: We were sort of cultural Buddhists. I say culture Buddhist,
Speaker 1: as in they didn't go to the temple. Auntie is
Speaker 1: very staunch Buddhist, so I've been raised with that around
Speaker 1: all the time. But also I find Chinese Malaysians are
Speaker 1: quite sort of superstitious, so they'll you know, have hedged
Speaker 1: their bets and have like.
Speaker 2: A myriad of gods at their.
Speaker 3: Yeah yees, covering their bases.
Speaker 1: So like sure, good academic, right, you know, performance for
Speaker 1: wealth and prosperity, all that kind of stuff, But it's
Speaker 1: more for that rather and it's like a fear rather
Speaker 1: than a philosophy.
Speaker 2: You know me, so transactional, yeah yeah, yeah, bit of that.
Speaker 1: And so that's how I got raised. So I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say we were philosophically entrenched in like the teachings of Buddha,
Speaker 1: but we were Buddhist most And.
Speaker 2: Then how did them how did the Mormons find you?
Speaker 1: So we got into some financial issues because my parents
Speaker 1: had some businesses.
Speaker 2: And we were in the doll drums and they came knocking.
Speaker 2: Oh and who answered the door Me and mum and
Speaker 2: invited the mean yeah wow yeah to clean cut, cute boys. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Why they was American because they're doing their missionary service.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Australias would go somewhere else as well. You
Speaker 1: don't always you can, you sometimes get called within your country,
Speaker 1: but you just it literally gets pulled out of a hat.
Speaker 1: Well through prayer and inspiration. Right, Yeah, that's the hat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the hat, like the sorting hat. That's the soft hat.
Speaker 2: And so then you went started going to the church. Yes,
Speaker 2: full on, it was full on. We commrely.
Speaker 1: We got baptized and that was like that was us
Speaker 1: because we lost a lot of family support during that time,
Speaker 1: and so the church was this amazing social structure that
Speaker 1: we got kind of helly dropped.
Speaker 2: Into, right, and.
Speaker 1: People were really kind to us.
Speaker 2: They were really kind to us. Yeah, I'll never forget
Speaker 2: that power of the church. You know when people like
Speaker 2: to say, now religion is responsible for everything bad, all
Speaker 2: the wars and whatever. I think it negates to a
Speaker 2: certain extent, the sense of community that can come from
Speaker 2: a church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker 2: It's so weird religion.
Speaker 1: Like the more I stand back now and I'm more
Speaker 1: relaxed about it because I'm not fighting it because I'm
Speaker 1: not in one, the more reasonable I am about it
Speaker 1: in my head, and I think with a bit of
Speaker 1: age as well, like you just everything just tends to
Speaker 1: even out a bit more and you're less volatile on
Speaker 1: your opinions. Because I feel like religion, even though I
Speaker 1: resented it coming out of it and when I was
Speaker 1: in it, because what happened was there was a cycle
Speaker 1: of I loved it.
Speaker 2: It was amazing.
Speaker 1: But then what happened was my brain after going to
Speaker 1: Canada and hanging out like my first bestie was trans
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: It literally blew my world apart, like so forbidden in
Speaker 2: the church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I'd never had that kind of freedom before
Speaker 1: because I'd lived at home before I went overseas.
Speaker 2: So to.
Speaker 1: Be in an environment where there was just so so
Speaker 1: much gray as opposed to black and white, which is religion, right,
Speaker 1: I just it completely flipped my brain. And then I
Speaker 1: went home and then I met Matt and Matt was
Speaker 1: just this incredible, doably intelligent, articulate, little sort of rebel
Speaker 1: at church and I and we were really good friends
Speaker 1: at first because we found solace, intellectual solace.
Speaker 2: With each other.
Speaker 1: So we used to just sit up and like, you know,
Speaker 1: do you really reveal things? I watched David Attenborough because
Speaker 1: these are dull is that rebellion? Well not really, I'm
Speaker 1: just joking, but like, well, we don't believe in duwinn
Speaker 1: In theory, so because it's.
Speaker 2: Of course it's like the Witnesses creation, yeah, creation, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so all that kind of stuff. Like we just
Speaker 1: explored sort of a world outside of the church. And
Speaker 1: then ultimately when we got married, we chose to say
Speaker 1: to our family, we're not getting married in the temple
Speaker 1: where we're just going to get normal guarden righting, and
Speaker 1: left the church. But yeah, we had to sort of
Speaker 1: really coach each other out of that situation because it's
Speaker 1: a lot, you know how it is, it's such a
Speaker 1: stronghold on you, but.
Speaker 2: Also you have to get to the point where it's
Speaker 2: harder to stay, yes than it is to leave.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, what was your breaking point and when did you leave?
Speaker 2: I think I always knew yeah. I always knew growing
Speaker 2: up when you were talking about that sensation of not
Speaker 2: feeling like you feeling like an alien, yeah, kind of
Speaker 2: looking at people. I knew that I wasn't a good
Speaker 2: Jehovah's witness and the ironies. I used to pray to
Speaker 2: Jehovah to make me a good Jehovah's witness. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: I knew that I wasn't. Yeah, he didn't. Wow, he didn't.
Speaker 1: He didn't ask your prayer.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't, didn't answer my prayer, didn't.
Speaker 1: It's the evidence right there.
Speaker 2: Well, you would think God, not that you think of
Speaker 2: it like that.
Speaker 3: At that time, I was like, oh okay, now I'm
Speaker 3: gonna have to leave.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. But then so you were with Matt and
Speaker 2: then this is the bit that is that most people
Speaker 2: cannot comprehend that when you broke up with Match, he
Speaker 2: ended up with bestie Sarah. Yeah right, yeah, okay, which
Speaker 2: is a story that I know you must have. You
Speaker 2: must have to tell this all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but it is extraordinary. No, no one minds it. But
Speaker 2: what we can't believe is that you don't mind it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like the thing that like it's not
Speaker 1: as amazing as you'd think. I don't think, because we
Speaker 1: were we don't have any children, right number one, That
Speaker 1: definitely helps. Yeah, b makes things less, you know, erotic
Speaker 1: right there, the tension of that, yeah yeah. And I
Speaker 1: think also at that point we were so broken together,
Speaker 1: like we were bringing out the worst in each other.
Speaker 1: It just was such a dysfunctional relationship and we knew it,
Speaker 1: but we didn't know how to get out of it,
Speaker 1: because even though we were out of the church, there
Speaker 1: was still that sort of familial pressure and everyone thought
Speaker 1: we were going in the opposite direction. Everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we go have babies, and we're like, we going me
Speaker 1: all the way. So I think the reason why I
Speaker 1: was kind of the one that made the first move.
Speaker 1: I was just painting one day in front of the
Speaker 1: and I was standing in front of the easel and
Speaker 1: it just came to me clear as a bell. It
Speaker 1: was like, you need to do it right now. And
Speaker 1: I literally legged it to the birth death marriages and
Speaker 1: got a divorced kid and then served it to him.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, with dinner with really badly cooked meat in
Speaker 1: three no, no, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Live was a relief for both of you.
Speaker 1: No, Matt was I don't know what it is with guys.
Speaker 1: I felt like he was blindsided. I was so bad
Speaker 1: in the caves, yes, where men thought we were fine
Speaker 1: and we were like, have you not heard I've been
Speaker 1: desperately Yeah. Yeah, I think the male propensity to sweep
Speaker 1: things under the rug is very high like that that
Speaker 1: this threshold is quite high. So anyway, he was still
Speaker 1: quite blindsided. But I think when he him and Sarah
Speaker 1: started to when they were together, I I was like,
Speaker 1: if I choose to be angry with this, it's like
Speaker 1: I'm going backwards because I'm the one that initiated this.
Speaker 1: I'm the one that is saying I don't want this anymore.
Speaker 1: And it was because I felt like I was turning
Speaker 1: into something that I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I was such a ball of rage.
Speaker 1: Anything could set me off, right, Yeah, angry poet, Oh
Speaker 1: my god. I was like throwing chairs and smashing chairs
Speaker 1: on the ground. I was psycho. Yeah, and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is not good. No, that's not good.
Speaker 2: That is not me. Also hard to imagine. Yeah.
Speaker 1: People always say that there is.
Speaker 2: You seemed and yang.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there's a very intense site to me personality. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think when you're creative.
Speaker 2: There has to be I do, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1: There has to be an intensity because for you to
Speaker 1: you have to be self driven, your you know, your
Speaker 1: standards have to you have to create your own bars
Speaker 1: of measure. So like I think within that there has
Speaker 1: to be I don't know, people call it passion, but
Speaker 1: there is so much new neuroticism and I don't know, obsessiveness.
Speaker 2: You know, you have to have those things and you
Speaker 2: need a launching place for your art to catapult from. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think running away from something, whether it's
Speaker 1: from within, is a great inspiration.
Speaker 2: Well do you think, Yeah, it's all about demons and
Speaker 2: work avoidance and sometimes the work is yourself, yes, and
Speaker 2: that you can find it yeah yeah yeah yeah clean house,
Speaker 2: in the in the in the in the streets, yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: all that all that.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: After this short break, we talk about our shared love
Speaker 2: for the late great Cal Wilson. Plus I surprised Poe
Speaker 2: with a message from her Master Chift co star Julie Goodwin,
Speaker 2: don't go anywhere. So then you decided to? So yeah,
Speaker 2: I was cool with it.
Speaker 1: Like it was. It was really fast the turnover, because
Speaker 1: I think we were already in that friendship stage, even
Speaker 1: though we didn't want to deny. So the transition was way.
Speaker 1: It sounds so much more dramatic than it really was.
Speaker 1: I was still pissed, like I'm not gonna deny that,
Speaker 1: but I knew I was gonna. I knew that for
Speaker 1: me to hold on to it, it was such a
Speaker 1: vivid it was like a picture in my brain. I
Speaker 1: was like a picture of me holding onto the garbage.
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, let the garbage go. Let
Speaker 2: the garbage.
Speaker 1: No, I shouldn't call Matte garbage. He's like, probably one
Speaker 1: of the most precious people.
Speaker 2: In my life.
Speaker 3: But those feelings are garbage.
Speaker 1: The feelings are garbage, and what I was turning into
Speaker 1: was garbage. So I was like I would be going
Speaker 1: in reverse. So I was like, I have to find
Speaker 1: a way to accept this. And it wasn't even that hard.
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, this is not that hard.
Speaker 2: The once you let it go, yeah, everything kind of
Speaker 2: found an ease to it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it was just I felt like this release
Speaker 1: and everything fell into place. It was so but even
Speaker 1: the way that we broke up met what Matt was
Speaker 1: a real gentleman about it, Like he left me a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: He left me zed our dog.
Speaker 1: And the funny, the thing that most people find even weirder,
Speaker 1: is that he moved across the street, okay, and Sarah
Speaker 1: lived around the corner from me, so we lived in
Speaker 1: this little triangle and we just sort of it was
Speaker 1: funny because we.
Speaker 2: Were aware of that it was unusual. It was unusual.
Speaker 1: And he says, is it weird if I move and
Speaker 1: across the street, And I actually said I would love
Speaker 1: it if you did, because I feel like us completely
Speaker 1: separating after living in each other's pockets is so unhealthy.
Speaker 1: I actually think it's okay, and we kind of nursed
Speaker 1: each other through the breakup.
Speaker 2: It is interesting because often you think that he's a
Speaker 2: person in a relationship that you've loved and that's meant
Speaker 2: more to you than anyone, and then when.
Speaker 3: You say for the relationship, they're just gone.
Speaker 1: How can that be?
Speaker 2: It is? I always had associated it with a level
Speaker 2: of passion. Yeah, that if you felt so passionate about
Speaker 2: the person, you couldn't be here to see them. So
Speaker 2: maybe if you didn't have that passion and you'd outgrown it, yeah,
Speaker 2: it makes it easier. But then maybe it's also just
Speaker 2: a great philosophy to have. Yeah, I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't know what it is, but.
Speaker 1: It was like as soon it was almost like, as
Speaker 1: sooner as I was willing to do the deed, which
Speaker 1: was get divorced, my whole body and mind, everything clicked
Speaker 1: and it was like okay, it was like really easy.
Speaker 2: And then did everything else open up to you? Because
Speaker 2: from that point on you've been stratospheric?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I did that interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had an amazing exhibition afterwards. And then Sarah
Speaker 1: was the one that said to me, hey, I think
Speaker 1: you should apply for this thing.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember it was on my little knocker.
Speaker 2: Oh really knock the brick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was like, what is this and she goes,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's so weird. Po I don't even
Speaker 1: really know, she said. But all I know is these
Speaker 1: words are so chilling to me still to this day,
Speaker 1: because the choice of words is so unusual. She said,
Speaker 1: I don't know really what it is, but I think
Speaker 1: you'll be great at it, and I think you're going
Speaker 1: to be there till the end.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: She didn't say you're gonna win it.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 1: I was there to here there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then it was the start of everything. The end
Speaker 2: was the start of it there and it's how we
Speaker 2: know you. Yeah, And the other thing I was going
Speaker 2: to say about your migrant parents is the affirmation of
Speaker 2: who you were and the acceptance and how the viewers
Speaker 2: just went, we love this woman to have for them
Speaker 2: to have their fledging little Poe, their little strange cuckoo,
Speaker 2: the cuckoo in the knees, to see her being so
Speaker 2: widely loved in this land that they had chosen, How
Speaker 2: beautiful that is.
Speaker 1: Well, I was kind of on my way to talking
Speaker 1: about that and I got lost, because we love a
Speaker 1: chat we do. That was that it was so impactful
Speaker 1: for me. I was thirty five at that point, so
Speaker 1: like a grown woman, and it's still it did so
Speaker 1: much for me, for my fam, for me relationship with
Speaker 1: my family, because they finally went, oh, her wild and
Speaker 1: willy ways have panned out. She is going to be okay.
Speaker 1: And after that, my parents just left me alone because
Speaker 1: they've always been a little bit like what are you
Speaker 1: to do with this? You know, you know, just always
Speaker 1: nagging you need money about yeah, like you know, getting
Speaker 1: more stable. But I'd always managed to hustle, like I'm
Speaker 1: not afraid of hard work. So they've always known I
Speaker 1: would be okay, but you know, one failed relationship, you know,
Speaker 1: and being on my own and you know, being a
Speaker 1: bit traditional, They're like, you know, I guess hoping that
Speaker 1: I'll find someone else and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Did they want a grand child? Did they put that
Speaker 2: pressure on you?
Speaker 1: Mum mentioned it quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Dad never.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she really wanted one. But my brother
Speaker 1: had four.
Speaker 2: So you made up for everyone, Thank you, brother, I
Speaker 2: didn't you? Yes, Yes, someone has to just just for
Speaker 2: quiet in your family. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So like for me, I think I've all always had
Speaker 1: such a sort of creative, sort of chaotic way of
Speaker 1: approaching life. It was so affirming for me to be
Speaker 1: this in an environment where my brain type excelled because
Speaker 1: it compresses the chaos, compresses into clarity. When I'm in
Speaker 1: that sort of slightly highly charged panic situation, pressure makes diamonds. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I found that environment really exhilarating, and it made
Speaker 1: me realize that all these things that I'd fought about
Speaker 1: myself and fought or had kind of resisted about yourself,
Speaker 1: Why am I like this? Why am I so disorganized?
Speaker 1: Or why am I always this this and this. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh wow, there is a place for it,
Speaker 1: and it made me understand that it's it's also what
Speaker 1: makes me creative. Yeah, so it was. Yeah, it did
Speaker 1: so many things for me, like for my self esteem.
Speaker 2: Would you like to know what the winner, who was
Speaker 2: there till the end with you, thought of you, Julie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: have a listen to this.
Speaker 4: I'm so glad that I got to go through Master
Speaker 4: Chef with Poe and be at the end standing next
Speaker 4: to her. It's hard to describe, actually what a generous
Speaker 4: spirit of a human being she is. I just love
Speaker 4: her to death and I have ever since I met her.
Speaker 4: She's hilariously funny, she's quirky and unique, she's insanely creative
Speaker 4: and just a.
Speaker 2: Gorgeous, gorgeous human being. I trust her, I love her.
Speaker 4: She's my friend. And yeah, thank you for asking me
Speaker 4: to say a few words about her.
Speaker 2: Cheers.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, jus, but oh my god, Poe's all
Speaker 5: those things extraordinary.
Speaker 1: She's so creative.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I think you don't get a sense of how
Speaker 2: the world sees you, because of course you're looking at
Speaker 2: the world through the prism of your own eyes. That
Speaker 2: is how the world sees you and I also we
Speaker 2: had a very dear joint friend we do, Cal Wilson. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you met Cal. I love the concept of people
Speaker 2: who are open to new friendships throughout their life. You know,
Speaker 2: some people go, well, this is my posse and this
Speaker 2: is You're not that person.
Speaker 1: No, I'm always adding.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you met Cal in the jungle. Yeah, she
Speaker 2: was my bunkie and you became such a significant person
Speaker 2: in her life.
Speaker 1: I don't even actually know think I knew that, which
Speaker 1: is so sad in a way, like I never dared
Speaker 1: to think that, you know, because I yeah, because of
Speaker 1: that thing where she's so established and but I adored her.
Speaker 2: But Cow was the same. Cal was a quirky like
Speaker 2: Cal also spend a lot of her time, I think,
Speaker 2: feeling like she didn't really fit, and then when she
Speaker 2: met you, it was like you rose to meet each other. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She was my little piece of solace in the jungle.
Speaker 1: As soon as I saw her walking and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is going to be okay, you know,
Speaker 1: because you've done it and you're I.
Speaker 2: Haven't done the jungle. Oh you haven't. Oh no, I
Speaker 2: haven't done I'd never do the jungle. Look, you might
Speaker 2: like to eat testicles, but you know that's not for
Speaker 2: me yet.
Speaker 1: Okay, so when you get in there, you do you do? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you do sort of put your radar out. And like
Speaker 1: as soon as I saw her, and you're I was
Speaker 1: going to be fine, and yeah, she's I think we
Speaker 1: actually got closer outside of it in a way because
Speaker 1: you know, you miked up and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: But yeah, what a.
Speaker 1: Divine human. And I say, I don't use the word divine.
Speaker 1: I'm not just throwing that out there. I say divine
Speaker 1: because she's literally godly in her ability to love and
Speaker 1: give like infinitely, you know. At her memorial, it was
Speaker 1: so funny because I was really I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about how she's such a little pebbler, like, you know,
Speaker 1: she'd always give, you know, give you little gifts. And
Speaker 1: when she passed away, and she was very crafty, very crafty,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize, but at every corner of my house
Speaker 1: there's a little cow thing she's given me. And it's
Speaker 1: so strange because I'd only known her for a couple
Speaker 1: of years at that point, and I was like, how
Speaker 1: she managed to infiltrate my entire house even though I've
Speaker 1: only seen her like a handful of times essentially, and
Speaker 1: we were really close. So at the memorial, I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about that, and I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to brag that she's given me so many presents.
Speaker 1: Everyone about it and I was like, yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 1: But then also, oh my god, how did she have
Speaker 1: this capacity to love everyone so hard and thoroughly and
Speaker 1: make space so much space for people and proper space,
Speaker 1: like thoughtful.
Speaker 2: Where you know, Like, but I think you have the
Speaker 2: same capacity. Okay, thank you. I think you do.
Speaker 1: It's so kind.
Speaker 2: I think that's what people respond to about you is
Speaker 2: there's a certain openness. And I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people as you travel through life with its slings and
Speaker 2: arrows and the pains, and as my mother says, in
Speaker 2: a classic mother way, the longer you live, the more
Speaker 2: bad things are going to happen to you. It's true,
Speaker 2: but it is true, it's true. How do you retain
Speaker 2: this openness to the world, the soft under belly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm always like that. And I think I've
Speaker 1: always been like that since I was a kid, even
Speaker 1: though I was shy. I think I've always been very
Speaker 1: I think curiosity. That is the main word that comes
Speaker 1: to my mind. I'm curious about how I can feel more,
Speaker 1: what experiences I can put myself into. I'm very greedy
Speaker 1: for because i think a lot of people think that,
Speaker 1: you know, I've landed in this position of you know,
Speaker 1: working in the media because I'm greedy for attention, but
Speaker 1: I'm really not. I mean a lot. I really love
Speaker 1: being acknowledged and recognized for things that I think I'm
Speaker 1: decent at that I've worked very hard at, you know,
Speaker 1: being okay at. But it's more that my greed for
Speaker 1: life experiences.
Speaker 2: But how are you not how does that not get
Speaker 2: replaced with fear, you know, because a lot of people
Speaker 2: are held back by the fear of failure or the
Speaker 2: fear of success. Yeah, I love.
Speaker 1: I love new feelings, like experiencing new kinds of feelings,
Speaker 1: Like I'm so curious.
Speaker 2: Like even when I was going through.
Speaker 1: Grief, and I think it's the age, it hit me
Speaker 1: at a really good age. And also being on my
Speaker 1: own was great as well, to be able to process
Speaker 1: grief on my own because I was just so hyper
Speaker 1: aware of all these privileges that I had, Like, wow,
Speaker 1: I can process this without a husband and children, So
Speaker 1: I can completely immerse myself in this without having to.
Speaker 2: Look after any worry of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the luxury of that, and really deep dive into
Speaker 1: it and within it. I was still able to find
Speaker 1: so many, so much beauty in the sorrow, like I
Speaker 1: really could. And I think it's because I'm always searching
Speaker 1: for it. I'm not afraid of feeling so like, you know,
Speaker 1: fear all the whole gamut. I love it. I love
Speaker 1: because it's what it is to be human. So if
Speaker 1: you're not going to feel, what the hell are you
Speaker 1: going to do? Right?
Speaker 2: I think? Yeah, I love you.
Speaker 1: I love you too, and I you know, I've it's
Speaker 1: been embarrassing because because we've met properly through another dear
Speaker 1: friend of.
Speaker 2: The other Kate, the other Kate Sebrann, and my son
Speaker 2: is going out with her daughter.
Speaker 1: And I've actually spent some time with who's absolutely gorgeous
Speaker 1: and so your son, do you think, yeah, ah, that's interesting, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2: But yeah it was.
Speaker 1: I've secretly always wanted to be your friend, So that
Speaker 1: was really it was so lovely to meet you that day.
Speaker 1: And we had such a fun day, didn't we.
Speaker 2: Oh, it was the greatest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so spontaneous.
Speaker 2: So Poe and I kept up the jibber jabber long
Speaker 2: after we had stopped recording. And who is one of
Speaker 2: those people that you could talk to anywhere, anytime, for
Speaker 2: any amount of time. There's so much that we didn't
Speaker 2: get up to. By the way, I believe her to
Speaker 2: be much more Buddhist than she thinks she is if
Speaker 2: you listen to the tale of what she's learnt about
Speaker 2: loss and life. And we didn't get onto her love
Speaker 2: of bees, and we didn't get onto how she makes
Speaker 2: his amazing jam tarts. I mean, there's so much. Poe
Speaker 2: is currently one of the judges on Master Chef. You
Speaker 2: can watch the series Monday to Wednesday at seven thirty
Speaker 2: pm on ten and ten Play. The executive producer of
Speaker 2: No Filter is Nama Brown. The senior producer is Grace Ruvret.
Speaker 2: Audio production is by Jacob Brown and I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Kate lane Brook. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening.