WEBVTT - From Husbands to Friends, Poh Ling Yeow Has Mastered Breakups

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on.

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<v Speaker 1>I was kind of the one that made the first move.

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<v Speaker 1>I was just painting one day in front of the

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<v Speaker 1>and I was standing in front of the easel and

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<v Speaker 1>it just came to me clear as a bell.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like, you need to do.

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<v Speaker 1>It right now. And I literally legged it to the

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<v Speaker 1>birth death marriages and got a divorce kid and then

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<v Speaker 1>served it to him. Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Kate Lanebrook and welcome to No Filter. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think you could find anyone in Australia who doesn't absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>adore Poling. Now, even if people don't know, she's got

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<v Speaker 2>three names, and her name isn't just Poe. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>those are my words, not hers, And honestly, I think

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<v Speaker 2>it made her a little bit uncomfortable when I said

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<v Speaker 2>it to her face, but it's true. There's something about Poe.

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<v Speaker 2>She's one of those rare people who bring sunshine into

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<v Speaker 2>any room she walks into. Now you might know her

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<v Speaker 2>as an artist, a chef, a TV presenter. She wears

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<v Speaker 2>many hats, but that's just the public side of Poe.

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<v Speaker 2>Because behind the scenes. Her story is rich and deep

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<v Speaker 2>and at times painful. She spent years in the church

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<v Speaker 2>before walking away from it, which left her untangling years

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<v Speaker 2>of belief and identity. She's navigated profound grief, not just

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<v Speaker 2>in the traditional sense of loss, but also through the

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<v Speaker 2>heartbreak of two major relationship breakdowns. In this conversation, Poe

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<v Speaker 2>opens up about all of it, about the loneliness, the questioning,

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<v Speaker 2>the rebuilding. She says she's often felt like an alien

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<v Speaker 2>trying to work out where she fits. But through it all,

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<v Speaker 2>she's discovered something quite extraordinary, and she shares it an

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<v Speaker 2>ability to find beauty in the sorrow, light in the mess,

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<v Speaker 2>and humor in the most unexpected places. This is a

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<v Speaker 2>conversation about identity, resilience, creativity, CONGI, and what it means

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<v Speaker 2>to start over again and again. But we started with

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of a laugh as I needed Poe's help

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<v Speaker 2>on a very urgent problem I had. I need you

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<v Speaker 2>in a professional capacity as well as your divine personal self.

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<v Speaker 2>So after this, by the time people hear this, you

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<v Speaker 2>will have been on the Sampang show. Yes, you will

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<v Speaker 2>have been pushed into a Christmas tree, which is the

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<v Speaker 2>ultimate honor. On that show.

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<v Speaker 1>It's amazing that that was on my list.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, and who even knew that that was a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I did the show last night and made the mistake

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<v Speaker 2>of having dinner with them after the show. Yes, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>very shabby. I'm wearing the same book. Oh so, Oh

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<v Speaker 2>my gosh, you're hilarious. Yes, it's terrible. It comes.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you do Walk of Shame to work today?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I did exactly, and I thought I'll poell understand.

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<v Speaker 1>I totally understand. I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>What would you make someone who's hungover?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh congie? Oh the rice poy because it's got ginger,

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<v Speaker 1>it's you know, it's like very warming and slurpy.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh so not a fried thing?

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<v Speaker 1>No, oh yeah, I would do conji. And then you

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<v Speaker 1>have all the pickles and stuff like that with it.

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<v Speaker 2>Really okay because I am a bit pickled, are you?

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<v Speaker 2>So you don't need any more pickles? And you know

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<v Speaker 2>the other thing, because people were talking us, in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone that I've mentioned that I'm going to be talking

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<v Speaker 2>to you, yeaes seed. Everyone's like, this will not come

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<v Speaker 2>as a surprise to you. Oh my god, I love Poe.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so lovely.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so lovely. But I need to know who hates Poe, who.

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<v Speaker 1>Hates po people out there? I'm sure, But do you

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<v Speaker 1>know what's really interesting? I think if you because on

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<v Speaker 1>my socials they don't really show up. Now that I've

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<v Speaker 1>now that I've said this, they will. And the more

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<v Speaker 1>commercial you become, the more invite of course. So when

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<v Speaker 1>I was at the ABC, I had a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>Nan haters Nan. Yeah, like on the ABC that stupid

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<v Speaker 1>girl and her fake last that kind of thing. And

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<v Speaker 1>also I saw that in that little cut she put

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<v Speaker 1>the salt in and the salt still on the table.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I can't you know that kind of thing? Well

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<v Speaker 2>that not really.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, you say proper travel through life?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, deeply and resoundingly loved, which is very unusual from

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<v Speaker 2>someone who occupies a public space.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes me feel so uncomfortable, I know.

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<v Speaker 2>But it is quite an extraordinary thing. No one ever

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<v Speaker 2>goes op pos. She's very polarized.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just not a phrase that exists, is it.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, whenever I say this, I feel very self conscious

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<v Speaker 1>because it sounds like I'm giving myself a pat on

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<v Speaker 1>the back, But I'm not. I feel so loved by

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian public generally and I'm so grateful for it,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to acknowledge it because I feel so.

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<v Speaker 2>Fortunate to have that.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't know why, but there are lots of

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<v Speaker 1>people that are annoyed by me. They pop up once

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<v Speaker 1>in a while, not not lots a few.

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<v Speaker 2>People out there. I think maybe with your maybe with

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<v Speaker 2>your like market benchure, maybe with jam face, your cooking business,

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<v Speaker 2>there'd be some other people that are like I was

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<v Speaker 2>making those biscuits before Poe or some kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>little yeah, little yeah or something yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And I've had people get really mad at me because

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't come out and like, you know, sign a

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<v Speaker 1>napkin when I was in the middle of running the bakery.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't realize that they're not watching Telly. I'm actually

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<v Speaker 1>an accounted for body at work, do.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So and then they're like, you know, she snubbed me,

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, I didn't snub you. I just

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<v Speaker 1>was like in the middle of serving like thirty customers.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, because this is a very interesting thing about you

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<v Speaker 2>as well. So you're an artist. I think people know that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think so yeah, before you started like cooking, yes, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you have your own business. I do you live in Adelaide, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and your business is run by you? Yes, it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So you don't have a commercial kitchen where you've got minions. No. No.

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<v Speaker 1>So I tried to have a cafe and I had

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<v Speaker 1>it for about five years. I'm really bad with time.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, so am I? Yeah? I think I had

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<v Speaker 2>it for about five yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I thought that's

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<v Speaker 2>what I was on.

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<v Speaker 3>The tax department will leave you.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I'm more good there.

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<v Speaker 1>So I had I had the farmer's market first, right,

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<v Speaker 1>because I wanted to just dip my toe into it.

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<v Speaker 2>And then and then.

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<v Speaker 1>It went really well. So we opened a cafe and

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<v Speaker 1>I found it. It was great for three years, but

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<v Speaker 1>I literally had to put my life on hold. It

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<v Speaker 1>felt like I had birth like quads overnight because I

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<v Speaker 1>and I was quite aware of this that I have

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<v Speaker 1>no skills in managing people and training as well. It's

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<v Speaker 1>so difficult, and because I've spent most of my life

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<v Speaker 1>working solo as an artist, it's always about just I

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<v Speaker 1>hand me expressing my love of a thing that I

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<v Speaker 1>love to do. And when it turned into that, I

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<v Speaker 1>hated it and I thought I had to go back

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<v Speaker 1>to the beginning. So I got rid of the cafe

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<v Speaker 1>and just went back to the farm, which I'd had

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<v Speaker 1>the whole time.

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<v Speaker 2>When you say we, who was we? Also?

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<v Speaker 1>So me my and my two business partners, which is

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<v Speaker 1>my ex and.

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<v Speaker 2>My hang on.

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<v Speaker 3>Which this is the other thing that people may may

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<v Speaker 3>know about you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you you were married, Yes, you were married

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<v Speaker 2>to Matt. Right, and you were married to Matt because

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<v Speaker 2>you seem to have these ten year cycles in your life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I do. Yeah, So Matt I was

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<v Speaker 1>with for ten years and then when John I was

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<v Speaker 1>twelve years Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, so John I was your second husband and Matt

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<v Speaker 2>your first husband. You met while you were a mormal, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>which I find extraordinary because I was raised to Jehovah's

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<v Speaker 2>witness And you know, people always get those religions mixed up.

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<v Speaker 1>They do because they prosely both.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Run so which yeah? Door knock, yeah, door knock? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Did you do that?

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<v Speaker 1>I did do it did a month in my home town.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, you were a little bad or sister yow and

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<v Speaker 2>you so you would knock on people's doors? And is

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<v Speaker 2>that the Church of Latter day Saints? It is?

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<v Speaker 3>So you would say you knock on the door.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, I'm sister, I'm from the Church of that Day Saints.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you have a moment so that we could give

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<v Speaker 1>you a message? Right? And if they had a moment,

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<v Speaker 1>what would the message be, Well, we'd go in, we'd

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<v Speaker 1>present the Book of Mormons. So much it was like

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<v Speaker 1>just dissipated. I had a terrible memory, and which.

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<v Speaker 2>I think is a blessing, by the way, I think

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<v Speaker 2>so too. Do you know what?

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<v Speaker 1>I used to think that I was really resilient because

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<v Speaker 1>there's been a few things in my life that some

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<v Speaker 1>people would consider to be quite traumatic, but I have

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. I kind of just slip out of them

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<v Speaker 1>pretty pretty easily. And I used to think it's because

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<v Speaker 1>I was resilient, but I actually think.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't remember it. But you know, it's an interesting

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<v Speaker 2>thing about humans because we have a capacity to remember

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<v Speaker 2>the good things. That's why people have more than one child.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, And also when you've broken up with someone, you

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<v Speaker 1>often find yourself reminiscing just the good times.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, not the that's right. Yeah, but when you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about traumatic things, is one of them the breakup with

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<v Speaker 2>your first husband?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, both breakups, and then like like mum's passing, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I was away for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Which was just shit. Were you overseas it was?

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<v Speaker 1>Yea.

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<v Speaker 2>What part of your life were you in when when

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<v Speaker 2>this happened. Where were you at? I was in a

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<v Speaker 2>really good place.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was in I was I was actually when

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<v Speaker 1>she got ill. Because mom and I have always had

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<v Speaker 1>this slightly spiky relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>And let me grapple with the concept of the daughter

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<v Speaker 2>having a spine exactly exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the same thing, isn't it. It's female female, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's just always fe in the head. Oh my god, yes, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And also because you were raised as well by

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<v Speaker 2>your auntie Kim, who you were very close to.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, so there was that tension between.

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<v Speaker 2>Your mum and yeah little.

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<v Speaker 1>Bit yeah yeah, not her sister, her auntie, her aunt Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so you're great auntie, yeah, my great auntie right, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's always been these little tensions and it just

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<v Speaker 1>is the way it is. And before she passed away,

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<v Speaker 1>she actually said to me, you know, I know, whenever

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<v Speaker 1>there's these rifts in the house with all the women,

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<v Speaker 1>you because her and Auntie just squabbled NonStop, and she says,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you need to think about the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>she came to live with us when your brother was born,

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<v Speaker 1>shortly after your brother was born, So she's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>been around our whole lives. Dad and I have never

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<v Speaker 1>really been on our own.

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<v Speaker 2>And so she came out from Malaysia with you, Yes

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<v Speaker 2>she did, which is an amazing uprooting. Is she devoted

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<v Speaker 2>her life to you, yeah, and your family, yeah, your brother. Yeah. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>She never had her own life. She never dated, never

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<v Speaker 1>had any relationships. She kind of just devoted herself to

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<v Speaker 1>my family. And she was adopted, and so she was

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<v Speaker 1>always kind of this outcast in the family in a way.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think she just found something.

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<v Speaker 2>With us that she really loved.

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<v Speaker 1>She was only supposed to come and help mum look

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<v Speaker 1>after my brother for a little while, but she ended

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<v Speaker 1>up never leaving because she loved it so much. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>being with us, and I think.

0:13:00.085 --> 0:13:03.045
<v Speaker 2>She's your mom loved that she did. I don't think she.

0:13:03.005 --> 0:13:07.365
<v Speaker 1>Knows any better because imagine having being young and having

0:13:07.725 --> 0:13:09.685
<v Speaker 1>like an older woman come and help you. It would

0:13:09.685 --> 0:13:12.725
<v Speaker 1>be divided, yeah, which is what it is back in

0:13:12.765 --> 0:13:16.965
<v Speaker 1>the day, right, Like it's quite common for grandparents extended family.

0:13:19.125 --> 0:13:20.005
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's right.

0:13:20.165 --> 0:13:22.885
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, And it's the other way, because you know,

0:13:22.885 --> 0:13:24.965
<v Speaker 1>I was reading this thing about how to raise independent

0:13:25.045 --> 0:13:30.085
<v Speaker 1>children recently and it's it's it's so hard. Now, that's

0:13:30.085 --> 0:13:35.045
<v Speaker 1>why there's just so many issues with the youth, because

0:13:35.445 --> 0:13:40.205
<v Speaker 1>the resources are half. So many single parents, yes, you know,

0:13:40.485 --> 0:13:44.165
<v Speaker 1>and it's across all so socioeconomic.

0:13:43.765 --> 0:13:47.205
<v Speaker 2>And even if it's not single parents. I remember reading

0:13:47.285 --> 0:13:53.125
<v Speaker 2>once the nuclear family is two people doing the work

0:13:53.165 --> 0:13:57.485
<v Speaker 2>of the tribe. That's right. Why did I think of

0:13:57.525 --> 0:14:00.885
<v Speaker 2>that when I had four children and my husband and

0:14:00.885 --> 0:14:05.765
<v Speaker 2>I would sometimes look like it is it's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:14:05.765 --> 0:14:09.125
<v Speaker 2>so you had this and particularly in Asian families. Well two.

0:14:09.485 --> 0:14:14.125
<v Speaker 2>So your auntie came without that familial lineage, yes, because

0:14:14.165 --> 0:14:16.845
<v Speaker 2>she was adopted. Yeah, yeah, so she was looking for

0:14:16.885 --> 0:14:18.325
<v Speaker 2>her place, I think so.

0:14:18.485 --> 0:14:22.845
<v Speaker 1>I mean, she was adopted as a baby, so she's

0:14:23.005 --> 0:14:25.645
<v Speaker 1>very loved by all the extended family. But there was

0:14:25.685 --> 0:14:29.365
<v Speaker 1>something about our situation that I think gave her purpose

0:14:30.125 --> 0:14:33.965
<v Speaker 1>and she really loved. Yeah, I think looking after my

0:14:34.005 --> 0:14:36.125
<v Speaker 1>brother and myself and me.

0:14:36.485 --> 0:14:40.365
<v Speaker 2>And so when you were overseas, your mom said to

0:14:40.445 --> 0:14:42.285
<v Speaker 2>you before you went away.

0:14:42.165 --> 0:14:45.965
<v Speaker 1>Yes, she said go and I checked in with her.

0:14:46.365 --> 0:14:48.245
<v Speaker 1>But I wish I hadn't. I wish I had just

0:14:48.445 --> 0:14:54.365
<v Speaker 1>used my intuition, and the way I had to unpack

0:14:54.405 --> 0:14:59.845
<v Speaker 1>it was to understand that I'm a bit of a

0:14:59.965 --> 0:15:04.845
<v Speaker 1>risk taker and I just took a really bad risk.

0:15:05.045 --> 0:15:07.245
<v Speaker 1>And I think if I had my way again, I

0:15:07.285 --> 0:15:08.925
<v Speaker 1>probably would have done the same thing, because it's my

0:15:09.045 --> 0:15:11.285
<v Speaker 1>nature to do that. Yes, And that's how I've been

0:15:11.325 --> 0:15:14.485
<v Speaker 1>able to get over it. Yes, it's just to accept

0:15:14.725 --> 0:15:17.885
<v Speaker 1>that that crap decision was probably always going to be

0:15:18.005 --> 0:15:20.325
<v Speaker 1>that crap decision? Do you know what I'm saying? Because

0:15:20.365 --> 0:15:21.045
<v Speaker 1>of my nature?

0:15:21.485 --> 0:15:24.165
<v Speaker 2>But how important do you think?

0:15:24.245 --> 0:15:24.325
<v Speaker 1>So?

0:15:24.485 --> 0:15:27.685
<v Speaker 2>This is always a thing in grief and loss and

0:15:27.725 --> 0:15:31.365
<v Speaker 2>farewelling someone who's you know, one of the only two

0:15:31.445 --> 0:15:34.965
<v Speaker 2>trees in your orchard? Yeah a parents, Yeah you've still

0:15:34.965 --> 0:15:38.645
<v Speaker 2>have got three trees. Would it have been more important

0:15:38.805 --> 0:15:43.045
<v Speaker 2>for her for you to be there or more important

0:15:43.085 --> 0:15:44.725
<v Speaker 2>for you to be there?

0:15:45.605 --> 0:15:47.925
<v Speaker 1>I think both. I think she would have loved it

0:15:47.965 --> 0:15:52.645
<v Speaker 1>if I was there. But it's interesting when I do

0:15:52.765 --> 0:15:57.285
<v Speaker 1>feel there is I definitely feel like people choose to go. Yes, Yeah,

0:15:57.685 --> 0:16:01.325
<v Speaker 1>I go because she waited till I was in a

0:16:01.365 --> 0:16:04.405
<v Speaker 1>position where I shouldn't have had any reception. I was

0:16:04.405 --> 0:16:10.685
<v Speaker 1>on some weird like hell in this I don't know

0:16:10.685 --> 0:16:11.085
<v Speaker 1>where I was.

0:16:11.125 --> 0:16:12.045
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where you were.

0:16:12.205 --> 0:16:17.045
<v Speaker 1>I was, I I was Where were you? I was

0:16:17.125 --> 0:16:22.445
<v Speaker 1>in Austria or like sound of music ish, No, No,

0:16:22.525 --> 0:16:26.405
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't in Austria. Where was I Vienna? I think

0:16:26.445 --> 0:16:31.925
<v Speaker 1>I was in Vienna? Yeah, Schnitzel, Yeah yeah, And so

0:16:32.005 --> 0:16:33.965
<v Speaker 1>Fay you said that, because that actually came to my

0:16:34.005 --> 0:16:37.005
<v Speaker 1>mind when I was trying to figure out I was anyway,

0:16:37.125 --> 0:16:40.045
<v Speaker 1>And so you know how funny it is like with

0:16:40.125 --> 0:16:42.965
<v Speaker 1>certain people they would know exactly the time, the place,

0:16:43.125 --> 0:16:45.765
<v Speaker 1>but I'm just I don't care anyway.

0:16:45.965 --> 0:16:49.925
<v Speaker 2>It's it's a feeling for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:16:49.925 --> 0:16:55.285
<v Speaker 1>And so I I had just gotten a text from

0:16:55.445 --> 0:16:59.725
<v Speaker 1>my god sister, Mum's goddaughter and she said, hey, I

0:16:59.765 --> 0:17:02.645
<v Speaker 1>think you should FaceTime your mom now, and I was

0:17:02.645 --> 0:17:05.005
<v Speaker 1>like okay. So I was like okay, good luck to

0:17:05.085 --> 0:17:07.925
<v Speaker 1>me and managed to talk and everyone was around her

0:17:07.965 --> 0:17:09.525
<v Speaker 1>at that point, and I was like, hi, Mom, and

0:17:09.565 --> 0:17:12.205
<v Speaker 1>I already made a decision. I said, hey, I'm going

0:17:12.245 --> 0:17:14.685
<v Speaker 1>to come home really really soon. And I really met

0:17:14.685 --> 0:17:16.365
<v Speaker 1>the next day, but I didn't want to sort of

0:17:16.605 --> 0:17:17.605
<v Speaker 1>stir her up too much.

0:17:17.885 --> 0:17:19.405
<v Speaker 2>She looked really really weak.

0:17:19.445 --> 0:17:21.445
<v Speaker 1>And she said no, no, no, she goes you just stay

0:17:21.485 --> 0:17:24.085
<v Speaker 1>and finish your thing. And I could feel she really

0:17:24.165 --> 0:17:26.365
<v Speaker 1>meant it, and I think it's because she knew she

0:17:26.405 --> 0:17:28.045
<v Speaker 1>wasn't going to be able to hang on for that long.

0:17:28.685 --> 0:17:32.525
<v Speaker 1>But pretty much after she spoke to me, like hours later,

0:17:32.565 --> 0:17:36.165
<v Speaker 1>she passed away, like maybe eight hours later, eight or

0:17:36.165 --> 0:17:36.765
<v Speaker 1>ten hours.

0:17:36.605 --> 0:17:38.485
<v Speaker 2>Like were you on the plane then or no?

0:17:38.725 --> 0:17:42.245
<v Speaker 1>I was asleep, so I'd gone to bed, and the

0:17:42.285 --> 0:17:44.885
<v Speaker 1>next day I was, yeah, I was about to come home,

0:17:45.525 --> 0:17:50.285
<v Speaker 1>but I yeah, then it was just like speedy get

0:17:50.365 --> 0:17:51.685
<v Speaker 1>on the first plane.

0:17:51.405 --> 0:17:55.645
<v Speaker 2>And where were you in relation to your personal relationships

0:17:55.645 --> 0:17:59.205
<v Speaker 2>at that time? Single? Sproken up with Johno?

0:17:59.805 --> 0:18:01.805
<v Speaker 1>And I was just, yeah, I've been in a really

0:18:01.845 --> 0:18:05.285
<v Speaker 1>good place for like years now.

0:18:05.405 --> 0:18:06.325
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah yeah.

0:18:07.245 --> 0:18:11.445
<v Speaker 1>Very single, Yeah, very single, A very single, very single

0:18:11.525 --> 0:18:14.525
<v Speaker 1>and not dating? You're not dating and.

0:18:14.485 --> 0:18:18.485
<v Speaker 3>Now not dating? No, I don't know how, Kate, No,

0:18:18.565 --> 0:18:18.965
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:18:19.085 --> 0:18:21.125
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I imagine, imagine if he.

0:18:21.085 --> 0:18:24.445
<v Speaker 1>Was single right now, how would you do it? I

0:18:24.565 --> 0:18:28.645
<v Speaker 1>literally how to do it? Like I don't have any solutions.

0:18:28.645 --> 0:18:32.125
<v Speaker 1>To keep asking people and they're like, you know, Raya whatever,

0:18:32.405 --> 0:18:34.205
<v Speaker 1>Like no, it's.

0:18:34.245 --> 0:18:37.005
<v Speaker 2>Just but how did you meet? Like John O? So

0:18:37.125 --> 0:18:37.605
<v Speaker 2>he was a.

0:18:37.645 --> 0:18:42.405
<v Speaker 1>Runner on Master Chef last season one was a member.

0:18:42.325 --> 0:18:45.605
<v Speaker 2>When you said that was two thousand and nine nine, ye,

0:18:45.885 --> 0:18:50.925
<v Speaker 2>where you sprang onto our greens and obviously you'd caught

0:18:51.085 --> 0:18:51.605
<v Speaker 2>his eye.

0:18:52.005 --> 0:18:53.405
<v Speaker 1>Yes, we caught each other's eyes.

0:18:53.525 --> 0:18:55.605
<v Speaker 3>And at what point did you realize that was going

0:18:55.685 --> 0:18:55.965
<v Speaker 3>to be.

0:18:58.085 --> 0:19:00.245
<v Speaker 1>I think it was he had kind of sort of

0:19:00.325 --> 0:19:02.805
<v Speaker 1>like thirty kind of personality, and I was like, Oh,

0:19:02.925 --> 0:19:03.805
<v Speaker 1>it's all the girls.

0:19:03.805 --> 0:19:04.925
<v Speaker 2>He's doing it to all the girls.

0:19:04.965 --> 0:19:06.965
<v Speaker 1>But then I kind of realized there was definitely some

0:19:07.085 --> 0:19:11.125
<v Speaker 1>kind of proper energy there. And it was interesting because

0:19:11.365 --> 0:19:14.845
<v Speaker 1>it became a very traditional kind of old fashioned courtship

0:19:14.965 --> 0:19:16.925
<v Speaker 1>because we're not allowed to frat nines with us with

0:19:17.005 --> 0:19:19.285
<v Speaker 1>the crew, no, Hjara really onto that.

0:19:19.925 --> 0:19:21.325
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, good old day.

0:19:21.645 --> 0:19:25.125
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah yeah, and there ever was such a thing.

0:19:25.485 --> 0:19:27.805
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so it was just like sort of reduced

0:19:27.805 --> 0:19:30.685
<v Speaker 1>to little cute looks across the yard. And he used

0:19:30.725 --> 0:19:34.445
<v Speaker 1>to travel us back and from the house to the

0:19:34.485 --> 0:19:38.565
<v Speaker 1>studio and so we'd sort of just have a little

0:19:38.565 --> 0:19:41.125
<v Speaker 1>look in the rearview vision mirror that was it, and

0:19:41.165 --> 0:19:44.005
<v Speaker 1>then say hi to each other, hello and goodbye. So

0:19:44.045 --> 0:19:47.805
<v Speaker 1>it's very cute, yeah, very bronze sisters. Oh my god,

0:19:47.845 --> 0:19:49.125
<v Speaker 1>it's so he just saw.

0:19:48.965 --> 0:19:51.165
<v Speaker 3>A glimpse of your stocking dangle.

0:19:53.485 --> 0:20:00.725
<v Speaker 2>And there is That's not all of my conversation with Poe.

0:20:01.405 --> 0:20:04.765
<v Speaker 2>Coming up after the break, we talk about the first

0:20:05.045 --> 0:20:10.125
<v Speaker 2>ever season of Mastershif, the very definitive decision for Poe

0:20:10.165 --> 0:20:15.245
<v Speaker 2>to leave her husband, her first husband, and Poe reveals

0:20:15.325 --> 0:20:20.085
<v Speaker 2>a sneaky intensity in her personality. What Don't Go Anywhere?

0:20:22.365 --> 0:20:26.205
<v Speaker 2>That was a remarkable season. Yeah, it wasn't that season one,

0:20:26.525 --> 0:20:27.045
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it was.

0:20:27.765 --> 0:20:29.645
<v Speaker 1>It was the thing like we all went into it

0:20:29.885 --> 0:20:33.405
<v Speaker 1>just not knowing what any reality TV wasn't even really

0:20:33.405 --> 0:20:37.205
<v Speaker 1>a big thing then, and so the word amongst the

0:20:37.245 --> 0:20:39.365
<v Speaker 1>crew was just like this is mad, like to do

0:20:39.405 --> 0:20:42.245
<v Speaker 1>a reality TV cooking show in Australia.

0:20:42.365 --> 0:20:44.685
<v Speaker 2>It's just such a weird idea.

0:20:45.605 --> 0:20:49.805
<v Speaker 1>And then as the show went on again through whispers

0:20:49.845 --> 0:20:52.245
<v Speaker 1>of the because we were on proper lockdown in season

0:20:52.605 --> 0:20:55.325
<v Speaker 1>for like the first few years, I think we were

0:20:55.365 --> 0:20:58.485
<v Speaker 1>all on proper lockdowns, like because it was you had

0:20:58.645 --> 0:21:01.485
<v Speaker 1>time ten minute two time to ten minute phone calls

0:21:01.525 --> 0:21:04.045
<v Speaker 1>a week or not prison, its proper prison.

0:21:04.205 --> 0:21:06.925
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, And like how long did the shooting of

0:21:06.965 --> 0:21:07.845
<v Speaker 2>the series take?

0:21:08.005 --> 0:21:08.965
<v Speaker 1>Five months?

0:21:09.365 --> 0:21:09.645
<v Speaker 2>Wow?

0:21:09.845 --> 0:21:12.525
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it went because I went all the way

0:21:12.565 --> 0:21:13.045
<v Speaker 1>to the end.

0:21:13.605 --> 0:21:16.245
<v Speaker 2>You sure did, I sure did. And then how was

0:21:16.285 --> 0:21:17.325
<v Speaker 2>that for your family?

0:21:19.605 --> 0:21:24.165
<v Speaker 1>They they loved it. They had no idea, obviously, no

0:21:24.205 --> 0:21:26.805
<v Speaker 1>one knew what it was going to be, but it

0:21:26.885 --> 0:21:32.285
<v Speaker 1>was such a It was such an amazing experience for me,

0:21:32.365 --> 0:21:34.525
<v Speaker 1>and I see it all the time now as a judge,

0:21:35.245 --> 0:21:39.885
<v Speaker 1>where people who have felt disconnected to their families find

0:21:39.925 --> 0:21:42.365
<v Speaker 1>connection when they come on the show because it's something

0:21:42.405 --> 0:21:46.365
<v Speaker 1>for the whole family to rally behind and they just.

0:21:48.365 --> 0:21:49.285
<v Speaker 2>Find a way to.

0:21:50.885 --> 0:21:53.765
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they just find that solidarity again, which is so nice.

0:21:53.885 --> 0:21:56.125
<v Speaker 1>And I didn't. It wasn't like my family was broken

0:21:56.165 --> 0:21:59.845
<v Speaker 1>up or anything. But I think my parents had always

0:21:59.885 --> 0:22:02.765
<v Speaker 1>been a bit worried about me because I've lived such

0:22:02.765 --> 0:22:04.245
<v Speaker 1>an unorthodox path.

0:22:04.565 --> 0:22:10.205
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and they were very orthodox in their desires for you.

0:22:10.205 --> 0:22:12.245
<v Speaker 1>No, I give them a lot of credit for that.

0:22:12.285 --> 0:22:14.685
<v Speaker 1>As migrant parents, they weren't sort of like you have

0:22:14.765 --> 0:22:17.125
<v Speaker 1>to be a doctor or an accountant or anything like that.

0:22:17.045 --> 0:22:20.685
<v Speaker 3>But they came to Australia because they wanted, yes for you.

0:22:20.845 --> 0:22:23.325
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, Kate, I was such a dunce student,

0:22:23.765 --> 0:22:27.645
<v Speaker 1>like I just kind of you want yeah, Yeah, I

0:22:27.685 --> 0:22:32.525
<v Speaker 1>was a little daydreamer, So I was terrible academically, which

0:22:32.605 --> 0:22:34.925
<v Speaker 1>is all it's about. When you're in an Asian country.

0:22:35.205 --> 0:22:38.325
<v Speaker 1>There's very little sort of focus on social or sport

0:22:38.485 --> 0:22:42.045
<v Speaker 1>or any kind of like social development activities. It's more

0:22:42.125 --> 0:22:45.965
<v Speaker 1>just all about academia. And I just failed, so dismally.

0:22:46.685 --> 0:22:49.285
<v Speaker 1>I was at the back, cutting up my graph paper

0:22:49.365 --> 0:22:54.005
<v Speaker 1>into noodles and scratching coins and making a little hawk

0:22:54.045 --> 0:23:08.725
<v Speaker 1>a store in the back, pencils to season at mass.

0:23:03.325 --> 0:23:04.445
<v Speaker 2>Always in my own little world.

0:23:06.605 --> 0:23:09.005
<v Speaker 1>So they're like, Okay, I think this is going to

0:23:09.045 --> 0:23:14.645
<v Speaker 1>be a but interesting food interesting, don't forget the season

0:23:16.005 --> 0:23:17.685
<v Speaker 1>because we had a lot of street store So I

0:23:17.765 --> 0:23:19.965
<v Speaker 1>used to love that was like a favorite thing of

0:23:20.005 --> 0:23:22.205
<v Speaker 1>mine to watch all the street vendors cook.

0:23:22.765 --> 0:23:24.405
<v Speaker 2>And so yeah, I would just do that.

0:23:24.725 --> 0:23:28.365
<v Speaker 1>And so yeah, my parents, my parents, my mum, I

0:23:28.365 --> 0:23:33.925
<v Speaker 1>think mainly recognize that I had a dubious academic future there.

0:23:34.485 --> 0:23:37.205
<v Speaker 1>And her brothers were already living in Adelaide.

0:23:37.605 --> 0:23:40.165
<v Speaker 2>They were borders. Yep, they were borders.

0:23:40.485 --> 0:23:45.245
<v Speaker 1>They finished school, studied, you know, had really you know,

0:23:45.285 --> 0:23:48.245
<v Speaker 1>went to university there, married there, so they were settled.

0:23:48.325 --> 0:23:50.765
<v Speaker 1>And back then it was quite easy to sponsor a

0:23:50.805 --> 0:23:54.165
<v Speaker 1>relative over. It's much harder now. So yeah, we came

0:23:54.245 --> 0:23:57.525
<v Speaker 1>over to infrastructure family.

0:23:57.565 --> 0:23:59.085
<v Speaker 2>And so you were like eight or nine?

0:23:59.445 --> 0:23:59.805
<v Speaker 1>Was nine?

0:23:59.805 --> 0:24:02.165
<v Speaker 2>I turned nine on the plane. Oh yeah.

0:24:02.445 --> 0:24:05.205
<v Speaker 1>So every time it's my birthdate, it's also the anniversary

0:24:05.365 --> 0:24:07.445
<v Speaker 1>of how long we've been in Estra.

0:24:07.605 --> 0:24:10.325
<v Speaker 2>And then I think this is so interesting because okay,

0:24:10.365 --> 0:24:16.965
<v Speaker 2>twofold one migrant families who either have two kind of responses,

0:24:16.965 --> 0:24:19.605
<v Speaker 2>because my parents were migrants as well, that either they

0:24:19.725 --> 0:24:24.325
<v Speaker 2>run to Australia yep, open arms and like land of opportunity,

0:24:24.765 --> 0:24:28.725
<v Speaker 2>or they enclave themselves. Yes, your parents sound like they

0:24:28.725 --> 0:24:31.245
<v Speaker 2>were like, this is the land of opportunity, Land of opportunity,

0:24:31.245 --> 0:24:33.205
<v Speaker 2>for sure. And you felt that even as a nine

0:24:33.245 --> 0:24:33.605
<v Speaker 2>year old.

0:24:33.645 --> 0:24:38.885
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, yes, yes, I remember. I felt like

0:24:38.965 --> 0:24:42.845
<v Speaker 1>my childhood had a very dark energy to it. I

0:24:42.925 --> 0:24:47.045
<v Speaker 1>felt very out of place. It's really weird, Like it's

0:24:47.085 --> 0:24:49.765
<v Speaker 1>so distinct to me. It's that feeling thing again right

0:24:50.205 --> 0:24:54.045
<v Speaker 1>where I just felt always like an alien, like I'd

0:24:54.045 --> 0:24:56.565
<v Speaker 1>been beamed in from somewhere else, right, like that you

0:24:56.685 --> 0:25:00.125
<v Speaker 1>didn't quite belong to you. No, No, I didn't understand

0:25:00.165 --> 0:25:02.285
<v Speaker 1>my world. Like when I went to school, everything was

0:25:02.325 --> 0:25:08.405
<v Speaker 1>just mumbo jumbo, and I remember just thinking I feel odd,

0:25:08.605 --> 0:25:10.965
<v Speaker 1>like I feel all the time, and it's how got

0:25:10.965 --> 0:25:13.885
<v Speaker 1>beamed in. And then as soon as my mum said

0:25:13.885 --> 0:25:17.245
<v Speaker 1>to me we're moving to Australia, it was like lightning

0:25:17.365 --> 0:25:20.285
<v Speaker 1>struck my head. I was like, oh my god, everything's

0:25:20.325 --> 0:25:22.765
<v Speaker 1>gonna make sense, everythings gonna be fine. Like it was

0:25:22.805 --> 0:25:26.005
<v Speaker 1>like a no. I always describe it as a knowing, right,

0:25:26.725 --> 0:25:29.685
<v Speaker 1>not an inkling, but like I knew. And then when

0:25:29.765 --> 0:25:33.365
<v Speaker 1>we landed, and I'm sorry if you've read or heard this,

0:25:33.445 --> 0:25:36.325
<v Speaker 1>but I always talk about how when we were just

0:25:36.405 --> 0:25:39.645
<v Speaker 1>traveling back to my uncle's house, I remember just I

0:25:39.685 --> 0:25:43.005
<v Speaker 1>felt like Alice in Wonderland. I remember even finding all

0:25:43.045 --> 0:25:47.845
<v Speaker 1>the street signs really beautiful, right. I was just enamored

0:25:47.925 --> 0:25:54.285
<v Speaker 1>with Australia immediately, in giness, the sparsness, those wide Adelaide roads, yeah,

0:25:54.605 --> 0:25:57.325
<v Speaker 1>compared to where you'd come from, which I imagine had

0:25:57.365 --> 0:26:01.405
<v Speaker 1>some density and yeah yeah, and that sort of. I

0:26:01.725 --> 0:26:04.365
<v Speaker 1>used to always find the humidity really.

0:26:06.165 --> 0:26:06.725
<v Speaker 2>Oppressive.

0:26:06.805 --> 0:26:10.725
<v Speaker 1>Oppressive, yeah, And I remember just loving like the dry

0:26:11.005 --> 0:26:11.805
<v Speaker 1>heat and.

0:26:13.645 --> 0:26:14.765
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so weird.

0:26:15.525 --> 0:26:21.565
<v Speaker 1>And right away, I I like, I was fine at school,

0:26:21.645 --> 0:26:27.005
<v Speaker 1>I performed really well. And did you speak English?

0:26:27.045 --> 0:26:30.885
<v Speaker 2>I did? Right, So your family spoke English? Yeah, you're right. Yeah,

0:26:30.925 --> 0:26:33.765
<v Speaker 2>So that would have made it easy. Yeah, heaps easier, Yeah,

0:26:33.765 --> 0:26:36.885
<v Speaker 2>heaps easy. But then often people like to focus on

0:26:36.965 --> 0:26:40.045
<v Speaker 2>their difference, like when they arrived, did you have a

0:26:40.765 --> 0:26:44.645
<v Speaker 2>sensation that you were not like the other ones? Yes?

0:26:44.925 --> 0:26:50.685
<v Speaker 1>I was incredibly shy, so I remember having Yeah, even

0:26:50.765 --> 0:26:55.325
<v Speaker 1>though I felt at home in Australia, still had that feeling,

0:26:55.445 --> 0:26:58.685
<v Speaker 1>but not in a way that felt dark. It was

0:26:58.845 --> 0:27:03.165
<v Speaker 1>like it was like I don't know how to explain it,

0:27:03.205 --> 0:27:07.845
<v Speaker 1>because all these kids just rallied around me and protected me.

0:27:07.965 --> 0:27:11.325
<v Speaker 1>It was so beautiful, like my experience coming to Australia

0:27:11.485 --> 0:27:17.405
<v Speaker 1>was beautiful. It was like textbook perfect. But I would

0:27:17.445 --> 0:27:19.805
<v Speaker 1>look at them they were my friends, but I would

0:27:19.805 --> 0:27:21.845
<v Speaker 1>look at them in all like I can never I

0:27:21.885 --> 0:27:24.725
<v Speaker 1>will never be able to be like you. Because Pip,

0:27:24.725 --> 0:27:27.605
<v Speaker 1>who was like sort of I guess, the leader of

0:27:27.645 --> 0:27:29.885
<v Speaker 1>the gang that I was in, she would ride to

0:27:29.885 --> 0:27:33.965
<v Speaker 1>school every morning, and I remember thinking that was amazing

0:27:34.005 --> 0:27:34.885
<v Speaker 1>because I could ride a.

0:27:34.805 --> 0:27:37.365
<v Speaker 2>Bike and just would you have been allowed to ride

0:27:37.365 --> 0:27:37.645
<v Speaker 2>a bike?

0:27:37.885 --> 0:27:41.965
<v Speaker 1>Probably not? No, not to school, no no. And I

0:27:42.005 --> 0:27:44.485
<v Speaker 1>remember thinking wow, for her to have that kind of

0:27:44.485 --> 0:27:47.285
<v Speaker 1>independence at her age was just mind blowing to me.

0:27:48.045 --> 0:27:51.845
<v Speaker 1>And then just to see like I used to find

0:27:52.485 --> 0:27:56.925
<v Speaker 1>things that were very ordinary, Like I would find a

0:27:56.965 --> 0:27:59.525
<v Speaker 1>way to think I could never be that cool. Like

0:27:59.565 --> 0:28:01.165
<v Speaker 1>she would open her lunch box and it was like

0:28:01.165 --> 0:28:06.925
<v Speaker 1>one of those refrigerated ones ylation, and I'd be like, oh,

0:28:07.005 --> 0:28:08.885
<v Speaker 1>that'd be cool enough to have a lunch box that

0:28:08.965 --> 0:28:12.885
<v Speaker 1>has I have resolation? What did you take it with

0:28:13.045 --> 0:28:15.165
<v Speaker 1>munch and never be cool enough to have a vegemite

0:28:15.285 --> 0:28:20.365
<v Speaker 1>sandwich and barbecue shapes and sultanas. It's just weird because

0:28:20.605 --> 0:28:23.565
<v Speaker 1>I had fried rice and that was just like oh my.

0:28:23.365 --> 0:28:27.765
<v Speaker 2>God, yeah yeah yeah, and a smell yeah, and it

0:28:27.805 --> 0:28:28.965
<v Speaker 2>was like yeah under.

0:28:28.805 --> 0:28:31.165
<v Speaker 1>The foil and eat things with a spoon. I was like,

0:28:31.325 --> 0:28:34.685
<v Speaker 1>bloody hell, I just want a sandwich. Yeah.

0:28:34.765 --> 0:28:40.485
<v Speaker 2>But at some point that became your strength. Yeah, it

0:28:40.605 --> 0:28:43.165
<v Speaker 2>took me a while. Well it does take a while.

0:28:43.925 --> 0:28:46.245
<v Speaker 2>But at what point did you Yeah, when were you

0:28:46.285 --> 0:28:49.965
<v Speaker 2>when you started to go, oh, these things that you

0:28:50.045 --> 0:28:54.685
<v Speaker 2>know to be an outlier or an observer in youth,

0:28:55.685 --> 0:28:59.285
<v Speaker 2>I think stands you in good stead as an adult. Okay,

0:28:59.485 --> 0:29:02.965
<v Speaker 2>sometimes so late, I would say.

0:29:02.765 --> 0:29:10.565
<v Speaker 1>When I was maybe nineteen or twenty, yeah, way past school,

0:29:10.805 --> 0:29:13.565
<v Speaker 1>and I think maybe going to Canada, I had a

0:29:13.565 --> 0:29:13.925
<v Speaker 1>lot to do.

0:29:14.845 --> 0:29:17.285
<v Speaker 3>Oh and what was the calling in Canada?

0:29:17.565 --> 0:29:21.085
<v Speaker 1>So I was in Utah, right, oh, China to the

0:29:21.085 --> 0:29:24.805
<v Speaker 1>Mormon find a husband, no joke, thinking maybe I might

0:29:24.845 --> 0:29:25.605
<v Speaker 1>find a husband.

0:29:25.725 --> 0:29:26.885
<v Speaker 2>When did you become a Mormon?

0:29:26.965 --> 0:29:30.285
<v Speaker 1>Then when I was sixteen? No, fifteen, fifteen, sixteen, yeah,

0:29:30.325 --> 0:29:30.725
<v Speaker 1>around then.

0:29:31.045 --> 0:29:32.365
<v Speaker 2>What religion were your parents?

0:29:33.245 --> 0:29:35.725
<v Speaker 1>We were sort of cultural Buddhists. I say culture Buddhist,

0:29:35.725 --> 0:29:38.125
<v Speaker 1>as in they didn't go to the temple. Auntie is

0:29:38.325 --> 0:29:42.365
<v Speaker 1>very staunch Buddhist, so I've been raised with that around

0:29:42.405 --> 0:29:47.405
<v Speaker 1>all the time. But also I find Chinese Malaysians are

0:29:47.485 --> 0:29:51.285
<v Speaker 1>quite sort of superstitious, so they'll you know, have hedged

0:29:51.285 --> 0:29:52.325
<v Speaker 1>their bets and have like.

0:29:53.765 --> 0:29:55.645
<v Speaker 2>A myriad of gods at their.

0:29:55.845 --> 0:29:58.165
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yees, covering their bases.

0:29:58.205 --> 0:30:03.845
<v Speaker 1>So like sure, good academic, right, you know, performance for

0:30:05.205 --> 0:30:07.845
<v Speaker 1>wealth and prosperity, all that kind of stuff, But it's

0:30:07.965 --> 0:30:11.645
<v Speaker 1>more for that rather and it's like a fear rather

0:30:11.685 --> 0:30:13.125
<v Speaker 1>than a philosophy.

0:30:12.645 --> 0:30:16.125
<v Speaker 2>You know me, so transactional, yeah yeah, yeah, bit of that.

0:30:16.565 --> 0:30:20.005
<v Speaker 1>And so that's how I got raised. So I wouldn't

0:30:20.045 --> 0:30:23.845
<v Speaker 1>say we were philosophically entrenched in like the teachings of Buddha,

0:30:23.925 --> 0:30:25.565
<v Speaker 1>but we were Buddhist most And.

0:30:25.525 --> 0:30:28.005
<v Speaker 2>Then how did them how did the Mormons find you?

0:30:28.485 --> 0:30:33.805
<v Speaker 1>So we got into some financial issues because my parents

0:30:33.805 --> 0:30:35.405
<v Speaker 1>had some businesses.

0:30:35.685 --> 0:30:40.325
<v Speaker 2>And we were in the doll drums and they came knocking.

0:30:40.565 --> 0:30:45.685
<v Speaker 2>Oh and who answered the door Me and mum and

0:30:45.765 --> 0:30:52.685
<v Speaker 2>invited the mean yeah wow yeah to clean cut, cute boys. Yeah.

0:30:52.685 --> 0:30:56.245
<v Speaker 2>Why they was American because they're doing their missionary service.

0:30:56.405 --> 0:30:59.285
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Australias would go somewhere else as well. You

0:30:59.325 --> 0:31:02.285
<v Speaker 1>don't always you can, you sometimes get called within your country,

0:31:02.605 --> 0:31:04.685
<v Speaker 1>but you just it literally gets pulled out of a hat.

0:31:05.085 --> 0:31:08.845
<v Speaker 1>Well through prayer and inspiration. Right, Yeah, that's the hat. Yeah,

0:31:08.845 --> 0:31:11.765
<v Speaker 1>that's the hat, like the sorting hat. That's the soft hat.

0:31:12.525 --> 0:31:15.565
<v Speaker 2>And so then you went started going to the church. Yes,

0:31:16.405 --> 0:31:18.645
<v Speaker 2>full on, it was full on. We commrely.

0:31:18.645 --> 0:31:21.405
<v Speaker 1>We got baptized and that was like that was us

0:31:21.805 --> 0:31:26.365
<v Speaker 1>because we lost a lot of family support during that time,

0:31:27.005 --> 0:31:31.885
<v Speaker 1>and so the church was this amazing social structure that

0:31:31.885 --> 0:31:33.445
<v Speaker 1>we got kind of helly dropped.

0:31:33.165 --> 0:31:34.365
<v Speaker 2>Into, right, and.

0:31:36.205 --> 0:31:37.645
<v Speaker 1>People were really kind to us.

0:31:38.125 --> 0:31:41.405
<v Speaker 2>They were really kind to us. Yeah, I'll never forget

0:31:41.445 --> 0:31:44.045
<v Speaker 2>that power of the church. You know when people like

0:31:44.165 --> 0:31:47.365
<v Speaker 2>to say, now religion is responsible for everything bad, all

0:31:47.405 --> 0:31:49.645
<v Speaker 2>the wars and whatever. I think it negates to a

0:31:49.685 --> 0:31:53.565
<v Speaker 2>certain extent, the sense of community that can come from

0:31:53.605 --> 0:31:54.085
<v Speaker 2>a church.

0:31:54.245 --> 0:31:55.725
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally, totally.

0:31:56.005 --> 0:31:57.165
<v Speaker 2>It's so weird religion.

0:31:57.325 --> 0:32:00.005
<v Speaker 1>Like the more I stand back now and I'm more

0:32:00.045 --> 0:32:03.165
<v Speaker 1>relaxed about it because I'm not fighting it because I'm

0:32:03.165 --> 0:32:06.965
<v Speaker 1>not in one, the more reasonable I am about it

0:32:07.005 --> 0:32:09.485
<v Speaker 1>in my head, and I think with a bit of

0:32:09.525 --> 0:32:11.765
<v Speaker 1>age as well, like you just everything just tends to

0:32:11.805 --> 0:32:13.525
<v Speaker 1>even out a bit more and you're less volatile on

0:32:13.565 --> 0:32:17.205
<v Speaker 1>your opinions. Because I feel like religion, even though I

0:32:17.285 --> 0:32:19.645
<v Speaker 1>resented it coming out of it and when I was

0:32:19.725 --> 0:32:23.205
<v Speaker 1>in it, because what happened was there was a cycle

0:32:23.245 --> 0:32:23.965
<v Speaker 1>of I loved it.

0:32:23.965 --> 0:32:24.765
<v Speaker 2>It was amazing.

0:32:25.165 --> 0:32:28.805
<v Speaker 1>But then what happened was my brain after going to

0:32:28.925 --> 0:32:34.605
<v Speaker 1>Canada and hanging out like my first bestie was trans

0:32:34.885 --> 0:32:35.165
<v Speaker 1>you know.

0:32:35.165 --> 0:32:40.285
<v Speaker 2>It literally blew my world apart, like so forbidden in

0:32:40.325 --> 0:32:40.805
<v Speaker 2>the church.

0:32:41.085 --> 0:32:43.205
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like I'd never had that kind of freedom before

0:32:43.245 --> 0:32:45.845
<v Speaker 1>because I'd lived at home before I went overseas.

0:32:45.805 --> 0:32:46.165
<v Speaker 2>So to.

0:32:48.565 --> 0:32:55.005
<v Speaker 1>Be in an environment where there was just so so

0:32:55.165 --> 0:32:59.805
<v Speaker 1>much gray as opposed to black and white, which is religion, right,

0:33:00.725 --> 0:33:05.245
<v Speaker 1>I just it completely flipped my brain. And then I

0:33:05.285 --> 0:33:08.005
<v Speaker 1>went home and then I met Matt and Matt was

0:33:08.125 --> 0:33:15.565
<v Speaker 1>just this incredible, doably intelligent, articulate, little sort of rebel

0:33:15.725 --> 0:33:18.445
<v Speaker 1>at church and I and we were really good friends

0:33:18.485 --> 0:33:22.045
<v Speaker 1>at first because we found solace, intellectual solace.

0:33:23.245 --> 0:33:23.885
<v Speaker 2>With each other.

0:33:24.285 --> 0:33:26.085
<v Speaker 1>So we used to just sit up and like, you know,

0:33:26.205 --> 0:33:29.085
<v Speaker 1>do you really reveal things? I watched David Attenborough because

0:33:29.125 --> 0:33:33.445
<v Speaker 1>these are dull is that rebellion? Well not really, I'm

0:33:33.485 --> 0:33:36.525
<v Speaker 1>just joking, but like, well, we don't believe in duwinn

0:33:36.525 --> 0:33:38.285
<v Speaker 1>In theory, so because it's.

0:33:38.285 --> 0:33:42.285
<v Speaker 2>Of course it's like the Witnesses creation, yeah, creation, yeah, yeah.

0:33:42.125 --> 0:33:46.485
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so all that kind of stuff. Like we just

0:33:46.605 --> 0:33:49.525
<v Speaker 1>explored sort of a world outside of the church. And

0:33:49.565 --> 0:33:55.285
<v Speaker 1>then ultimately when we got married, we chose to say

0:33:55.365 --> 0:33:57.405
<v Speaker 1>to our family, we're not getting married in the temple

0:33:57.845 --> 0:34:01.085
<v Speaker 1>where we're just going to get normal guarden righting, and

0:34:01.165 --> 0:34:03.245
<v Speaker 1>left the church. But yeah, we had to sort of

0:34:03.285 --> 0:34:06.765
<v Speaker 1>really coach each other out of that situation because it's

0:34:06.805 --> 0:34:08.805
<v Speaker 1>a lot, you know how it is, it's such a

0:34:08.845 --> 0:34:10.205
<v Speaker 1>stronghold on you, but.

0:34:10.285 --> 0:34:12.285
<v Speaker 2>Also you have to get to the point where it's

0:34:12.325 --> 0:34:15.205
<v Speaker 2>harder to stay, yes than it is to leave.

0:34:15.285 --> 0:34:18.605
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, what was your breaking point and when did you leave?

0:34:18.725 --> 0:34:21.285
<v Speaker 2>I think I always knew yeah. I always knew growing

0:34:21.365 --> 0:34:23.445
<v Speaker 2>up when you were talking about that sensation of not

0:34:23.525 --> 0:34:27.125
<v Speaker 2>feeling like you feeling like an alien, yeah, kind of

0:34:27.125 --> 0:34:29.925
<v Speaker 2>looking at people. I knew that I wasn't a good

0:34:29.965 --> 0:34:33.365
<v Speaker 2>Jehovah's witness and the ironies. I used to pray to

0:34:33.485 --> 0:34:37.525
<v Speaker 2>Jehovah to make me a good Jehovah's witness. Yeah, because

0:34:37.525 --> 0:34:41.925
<v Speaker 2>I knew that I wasn't. Yeah, he didn't. Wow, he didn't.

0:34:42.045 --> 0:34:43.565
<v Speaker 1>He didn't ask your prayer.

0:34:43.725 --> 0:34:47.845
<v Speaker 2>No, I didn't, didn't answer my prayer, didn't.

0:34:47.965 --> 0:34:50.005
<v Speaker 1>It's the evidence right there.

0:34:50.045 --> 0:34:52.285
<v Speaker 2>Well, you would think God, not that you think of

0:34:52.325 --> 0:34:52.885
<v Speaker 2>it like that.

0:34:52.925 --> 0:34:55.445
<v Speaker 3>At that time, I was like, oh okay, now I'm

0:34:55.445 --> 0:34:56.285
<v Speaker 3>gonna have to leave.

0:34:56.565 --> 0:34:59.525
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. But then so you were with Matt and

0:34:59.565 --> 0:35:02.605
<v Speaker 2>then this is the bit that is that most people

0:35:02.685 --> 0:35:07.925
<v Speaker 2>cannot comprehend that when you broke up with Match, he

0:35:08.045 --> 0:35:12.805
<v Speaker 2>ended up with bestie Sarah. Yeah right, yeah, okay, which

0:35:12.805 --> 0:35:15.645
<v Speaker 2>is a story that I know you must have. You

0:35:15.765 --> 0:35:17.925
<v Speaker 2>must have to tell this all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:35:17.965 --> 0:35:21.605
<v Speaker 2>but it is extraordinary. No, no one minds it. But

0:35:21.685 --> 0:35:24.445
<v Speaker 2>what we can't believe is that you don't mind it. Yeah.

0:35:24.525 --> 0:35:27.565
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think like the thing that like it's not

0:35:27.605 --> 0:35:30.605
<v Speaker 1>as amazing as you'd think. I don't think, because we

0:35:30.645 --> 0:35:33.645
<v Speaker 1>were we don't have any children, right number one, That

0:35:33.685 --> 0:35:37.765
<v Speaker 1>definitely helps. Yeah, b makes things less, you know, erotic

0:35:38.085 --> 0:35:41.645
<v Speaker 1>right there, the tension of that, yeah yeah. And I

0:35:41.685 --> 0:35:46.605
<v Speaker 1>think also at that point we were so broken together,

0:35:47.085 --> 0:35:49.405
<v Speaker 1>like we were bringing out the worst in each other.

0:35:49.525 --> 0:35:54.525
<v Speaker 1>It just was such a dysfunctional relationship and we knew it,

0:35:54.565 --> 0:35:55.845
<v Speaker 1>but we didn't know how to get out of it,

0:35:55.925 --> 0:35:58.485
<v Speaker 1>because even though we were out of the church, there

0:35:58.565 --> 0:36:01.685
<v Speaker 1>was still that sort of familial pressure and everyone thought

0:36:01.685 --> 0:36:03.445
<v Speaker 1>we were going in the opposite direction. Everyone's like, oh,

0:36:03.485 --> 0:36:05.285
<v Speaker 1>we go have babies, and we're like, we going me

0:36:05.365 --> 0:36:10.965
<v Speaker 1>all the way. So I think the reason why I

0:36:11.125 --> 0:36:14.005
<v Speaker 1>was kind of the one that made the first move.

0:36:14.285 --> 0:36:17.085
<v Speaker 1>I was just painting one day in front of the

0:36:17.365 --> 0:36:19.605
<v Speaker 1>and I was standing in front of the easel and

0:36:19.645 --> 0:36:22.405
<v Speaker 1>it just came to me clear as a bell. It

0:36:22.445 --> 0:36:24.805
<v Speaker 1>was like, you need to do it right now. And

0:36:24.885 --> 0:36:27.645
<v Speaker 1>I literally legged it to the birth death marriages and

0:36:27.645 --> 0:36:31.405
<v Speaker 1>got a divorced kid and then served it to him.

0:36:32.125 --> 0:36:36.805
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, with dinner with really badly cooked meat in

0:36:36.845 --> 0:36:39.605
<v Speaker 1>three no, no, yeah, and.

0:36:40.485 --> 0:36:42.525
<v Speaker 2>Live was a relief for both of you.

0:36:42.565 --> 0:36:46.965
<v Speaker 1>No, Matt was I don't know what it is with guys.

0:36:47.005 --> 0:36:49.925
<v Speaker 1>I felt like he was blindsided. I was so bad

0:36:50.285 --> 0:36:54.085
<v Speaker 1>in the caves, yes, where men thought we were fine

0:36:54.245 --> 0:36:56.365
<v Speaker 1>and we were like, have you not heard I've been

0:36:56.365 --> 0:37:02.005
<v Speaker 1>desperately Yeah. Yeah, I think the male propensity to sweep

0:37:02.005 --> 0:37:05.005
<v Speaker 1>things under the rug is very high like that that

0:37:05.525 --> 0:37:08.005
<v Speaker 1>this threshold is quite high. So anyway, he was still

0:37:08.085 --> 0:37:15.405
<v Speaker 1>quite blindsided. But I think when he him and Sarah

0:37:15.445 --> 0:37:19.925
<v Speaker 1>started to when they were together, I I was like,

0:37:20.005 --> 0:37:23.485
<v Speaker 1>if I choose to be angry with this, it's like

0:37:24.045 --> 0:37:28.325
<v Speaker 1>I'm going backwards because I'm the one that initiated this.

0:37:28.565 --> 0:37:32.525
<v Speaker 1>I'm the one that is saying I don't want this anymore.

0:37:32.765 --> 0:37:35.405
<v Speaker 1>And it was because I felt like I was turning

0:37:35.405 --> 0:37:36.765
<v Speaker 1>into something that I wasn't.

0:37:36.805 --> 0:37:39.285
<v Speaker 2>I was such a ball of rage.

0:37:39.805 --> 0:37:43.885
<v Speaker 1>Anything could set me off, right, Yeah, angry poet, Oh

0:37:43.925 --> 0:37:47.165
<v Speaker 1>my god. I was like throwing chairs and smashing chairs

0:37:47.165 --> 0:37:50.445
<v Speaker 1>on the ground. I was psycho. Yeah, and I was like,

0:37:50.525 --> 0:37:53.365
<v Speaker 1>this is not good. No, that's not good.

0:37:53.485 --> 0:37:55.885
<v Speaker 2>That is not me. Also hard to imagine. Yeah.

0:37:55.885 --> 0:37:59.045
<v Speaker 1>People always say that there is.

0:38:03.925 --> 0:38:06.685
<v Speaker 2>You seemed and yang.

0:38:07.645 --> 0:38:10.725
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, there's a very intense site to me personality. Yeah,

0:38:10.765 --> 0:38:13.605
<v Speaker 1>because I think when you're creative.

0:38:13.205 --> 0:38:16.085
<v Speaker 2>There has to be I do, Yeah, I do.

0:38:16.325 --> 0:38:18.285
<v Speaker 1>There has to be an intensity because for you to

0:38:19.245 --> 0:38:21.725
<v Speaker 1>you have to be self driven, your you know, your

0:38:21.765 --> 0:38:24.525
<v Speaker 1>standards have to you have to create your own bars

0:38:24.525 --> 0:38:28.845
<v Speaker 1>of measure. So like I think within that there has

0:38:28.965 --> 0:38:31.725
<v Speaker 1>to be I don't know, people call it passion, but

0:38:31.805 --> 0:38:38.645
<v Speaker 1>there is so much new neuroticism and I don't know, obsessiveness.

0:38:38.685 --> 0:38:40.725
<v Speaker 2>You know, you have to have those things and you

0:38:40.845 --> 0:38:47.085
<v Speaker 2>need a launching place for your art to catapult from. Yeah.

0:38:47.165 --> 0:38:50.885
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think running away from something, whether it's

0:38:50.885 --> 0:38:53.245
<v Speaker 1>from within, is a great inspiration.

0:38:54.325 --> 0:38:57.765
<v Speaker 2>Well do you think, Yeah, it's all about demons and

0:38:57.845 --> 0:39:01.965
<v Speaker 2>work avoidance and sometimes the work is yourself, yes, and

0:39:02.005 --> 0:39:05.805
<v Speaker 2>that you can find it yeah yeah yeah yeah clean house,

0:39:05.885 --> 0:39:08.165
<v Speaker 2>in the in the in the in the streets, yeah yeah,

0:39:08.205 --> 0:39:08.925
<v Speaker 2>all that all that.

0:39:09.365 --> 0:39:12.845
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah.

0:39:13.285 --> 0:39:16.485
<v Speaker 2>After this short break, we talk about our shared love

0:39:16.605 --> 0:39:21.445
<v Speaker 2>for the late great Cal Wilson. Plus I surprised Poe

0:39:21.845 --> 0:39:25.645
<v Speaker 2>with a message from her Master Chift co star Julie Goodwin,

0:39:26.085 --> 0:39:33.405
<v Speaker 2>don't go anywhere. So then you decided to? So yeah,

0:39:33.405 --> 0:39:34.245
<v Speaker 2>I was cool with it.

0:39:34.325 --> 0:39:37.165
<v Speaker 1>Like it was. It was really fast the turnover, because

0:39:37.205 --> 0:39:40.685
<v Speaker 1>I think we were already in that friendship stage, even

0:39:40.725 --> 0:39:44.045
<v Speaker 1>though we didn't want to deny. So the transition was way.

0:39:44.725 --> 0:39:47.245
<v Speaker 1>It sounds so much more dramatic than it really was.

0:39:47.325 --> 0:39:50.205
<v Speaker 1>I was still pissed, like I'm not gonna deny that,

0:39:50.965 --> 0:39:53.925
<v Speaker 1>but I knew I was gonna. I knew that for

0:39:54.045 --> 0:39:56.405
<v Speaker 1>me to hold on to it, it was such a

0:39:56.565 --> 0:39:59.485
<v Speaker 1>vivid it was like a picture in my brain. I

0:39:59.525 --> 0:40:02.645
<v Speaker 1>was like a picture of me holding onto the garbage.

0:40:02.485 --> 0:40:05.085
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, no, let the garbage go. Let

0:40:05.085 --> 0:40:05.565
<v Speaker 2>the garbage.

0:40:05.565 --> 0:40:10.805
<v Speaker 1>No, I shouldn't call Matte garbage. He's like, probably one

0:40:10.845 --> 0:40:11.925
<v Speaker 1>of the most precious people.

0:40:11.725 --> 0:40:12.125
<v Speaker 2>In my life.

0:40:12.125 --> 0:40:13.525
<v Speaker 3>But those feelings are garbage.

0:40:13.565 --> 0:40:16.005
<v Speaker 1>The feelings are garbage, and what I was turning into

0:40:16.125 --> 0:40:18.925
<v Speaker 1>was garbage. So I was like I would be going

0:40:18.925 --> 0:40:21.685
<v Speaker 1>in reverse. So I was like, I have to find

0:40:21.685 --> 0:40:24.525
<v Speaker 1>a way to accept this. And it wasn't even that hard.

0:40:24.685 --> 0:40:27.125
<v Speaker 1>I was just like, oh, this is not that hard.

0:40:28.045 --> 0:40:31.285
<v Speaker 2>The once you let it go, yeah, everything kind of

0:40:31.285 --> 0:40:33.245
<v Speaker 2>found an ease to it. Yeah.

0:40:33.525 --> 0:40:38.405
<v Speaker 1>I think it was just I felt like this release

0:40:39.245 --> 0:40:43.085
<v Speaker 1>and everything fell into place. It was so but even

0:40:43.125 --> 0:40:46.365
<v Speaker 1>the way that we broke up met what Matt was

0:40:46.365 --> 0:40:49.245
<v Speaker 1>a real gentleman about it, Like he left me a

0:40:49.245 --> 0:40:50.005
<v Speaker 1>lot of stuff.

0:40:50.005 --> 0:40:51.805
<v Speaker 2>He left me zed our dog.

0:40:53.245 --> 0:40:55.885
<v Speaker 1>And the funny, the thing that most people find even weirder,

0:40:56.005 --> 0:40:59.685
<v Speaker 1>is that he moved across the street, okay, and Sarah

0:40:59.725 --> 0:41:01.645
<v Speaker 1>lived around the corner from me, so we lived in

0:41:01.685 --> 0:41:04.565
<v Speaker 1>this little triangle and we just sort of it was

0:41:04.605 --> 0:41:05.525
<v Speaker 1>funny because we.

0:41:05.405 --> 0:41:08.765
<v Speaker 2>Were aware of that it was unusual. It was unusual.

0:41:08.885 --> 0:41:11.045
<v Speaker 1>And he says, is it weird if I move and

0:41:11.365 --> 0:41:13.125
<v Speaker 1>across the street, And I actually said I would love

0:41:13.125 --> 0:41:15.885
<v Speaker 1>it if you did, because I feel like us completely

0:41:15.925 --> 0:41:19.045
<v Speaker 1>separating after living in each other's pockets is so unhealthy.

0:41:20.285 --> 0:41:24.925
<v Speaker 1>I actually think it's okay, and we kind of nursed

0:41:24.965 --> 0:41:26.725
<v Speaker 1>each other through the breakup.

0:41:27.325 --> 0:41:30.365
<v Speaker 2>It is interesting because often you think that he's a

0:41:30.405 --> 0:41:33.605
<v Speaker 2>person in a relationship that you've loved and that's meant

0:41:33.685 --> 0:41:35.445
<v Speaker 2>more to you than anyone, and then when.

0:41:35.245 --> 0:41:37.325
<v Speaker 3>You say for the relationship, they're just gone.

0:41:37.725 --> 0:41:38.725
<v Speaker 1>How can that be?

0:41:39.085 --> 0:41:42.805
<v Speaker 2>It is? I always had associated it with a level

0:41:42.845 --> 0:41:47.525
<v Speaker 2>of passion. Yeah, that if you felt so passionate about

0:41:47.565 --> 0:41:51.365
<v Speaker 2>the person, you couldn't be here to see them. So

0:41:51.485 --> 0:41:54.805
<v Speaker 2>maybe if you didn't have that passion and you'd outgrown it, yeah,

0:41:55.005 --> 0:41:57.125
<v Speaker 2>it makes it easier. But then maybe it's also just

0:41:57.165 --> 0:42:00.445
<v Speaker 2>a great philosophy to have. Yeah, I don't know, I

0:42:00.485 --> 0:42:01.845
<v Speaker 2>don't know what it is, but.

0:42:02.005 --> 0:42:04.765
<v Speaker 1>It was like as soon it was almost like, as

0:42:04.765 --> 0:42:08.685
<v Speaker 1>sooner as I was willing to do the deed, which

0:42:08.765 --> 0:42:15.205
<v Speaker 1>was get divorced, my whole body and mind, everything clicked

0:42:15.645 --> 0:42:18.805
<v Speaker 1>and it was like okay, it was like really easy.

0:42:19.525 --> 0:42:22.325
<v Speaker 2>And then did everything else open up to you? Because

0:42:22.685 --> 0:42:25.805
<v Speaker 2>from that point on you've been stratospheric?

0:42:26.325 --> 0:42:27.165
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:42:27.165 --> 0:42:28.485
<v Speaker 2>I did that interesting.

0:42:28.565 --> 0:42:32.685
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I had an amazing exhibition afterwards. And then Sarah

0:42:32.725 --> 0:42:35.725
<v Speaker 1>was the one that said to me, hey, I think

0:42:35.725 --> 0:42:37.005
<v Speaker 1>you should apply for this thing.

0:42:37.525 --> 0:42:37.805
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:42:37.925 --> 0:42:40.085
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I remember it was on my little knocker.

0:42:40.205 --> 0:42:42.725
<v Speaker 2>Oh really knock the brick.

0:42:44.245 --> 0:42:46.845
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I was like, what is this and she goes,

0:42:46.965 --> 0:42:49.325
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, it's so weird. Po I don't even

0:42:49.445 --> 0:42:53.685
<v Speaker 1>really know, she said. But all I know is these

0:42:53.725 --> 0:42:56.045
<v Speaker 1>words are so chilling to me still to this day,

0:42:56.445 --> 0:43:00.165
<v Speaker 1>because the choice of words is so unusual. She said,

0:43:00.605 --> 0:43:02.685
<v Speaker 1>I don't know really what it is, but I think

0:43:02.725 --> 0:43:05.365
<v Speaker 1>you'll be great at it, and I think you're going

0:43:05.445 --> 0:43:07.005
<v Speaker 1>to be there till the end.

0:43:07.365 --> 0:43:07.525
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

0:43:07.805 --> 0:43:08.965
<v Speaker 1>She didn't say you're gonna win it.

0:43:09.405 --> 0:43:09.565
<v Speaker 2>Ah.

0:43:09.925 --> 0:43:11.445
<v Speaker 1>I was there to here there.

0:43:12.285 --> 0:43:12.525
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:43:12.925 --> 0:43:15.445
<v Speaker 2>And then it was the start of everything. The end

0:43:15.645 --> 0:43:18.525
<v Speaker 2>was the start of it there and it's how we

0:43:18.605 --> 0:43:21.485
<v Speaker 2>know you. Yeah, And the other thing I was going

0:43:21.565 --> 0:43:27.445
<v Speaker 2>to say about your migrant parents is the affirmation of

0:43:27.725 --> 0:43:31.565
<v Speaker 2>who you were and the acceptance and how the viewers

0:43:31.645 --> 0:43:34.845
<v Speaker 2>just went, we love this woman to have for them

0:43:34.885 --> 0:43:38.405
<v Speaker 2>to have their fledging little Poe, their little strange cuckoo,

0:43:38.725 --> 0:43:41.525
<v Speaker 2>the cuckoo in the knees, to see her being so

0:43:41.685 --> 0:43:46.005
<v Speaker 2>widely loved in this land that they had chosen, How

0:43:46.125 --> 0:43:47.365
<v Speaker 2>beautiful that is.

0:43:47.725 --> 0:43:49.365
<v Speaker 1>Well, I was kind of on my way to talking

0:43:49.405 --> 0:43:51.445
<v Speaker 1>about that and I got lost, because we love a

0:43:51.525 --> 0:43:56.005
<v Speaker 1>chat we do. That was that it was so impactful

0:43:56.005 --> 0:43:59.445
<v Speaker 1>for me. I was thirty five at that point, so

0:43:59.605 --> 0:44:05.645
<v Speaker 1>like a grown woman, and it's still it did so

0:44:05.845 --> 0:44:09.885
<v Speaker 1>much for me, for my fam, for me relationship with

0:44:09.925 --> 0:44:12.765
<v Speaker 1>my family, because they finally went, oh, her wild and

0:44:12.765 --> 0:44:15.925
<v Speaker 1>willy ways have panned out. She is going to be okay.

0:44:16.445 --> 0:44:19.245
<v Speaker 1>And after that, my parents just left me alone because

0:44:19.245 --> 0:44:20.685
<v Speaker 1>they've always been a little bit like what are you

0:44:20.725 --> 0:44:23.605
<v Speaker 1>to do with this? You know, you know, just always

0:44:23.685 --> 0:44:27.765
<v Speaker 1>nagging you need money about yeah, like you know, getting

0:44:27.805 --> 0:44:31.165
<v Speaker 1>more stable. But I'd always managed to hustle, like I'm

0:44:31.165 --> 0:44:33.125
<v Speaker 1>not afraid of hard work. So they've always known I

0:44:33.125 --> 0:44:37.845
<v Speaker 1>would be okay, but you know, one failed relationship, you know,

0:44:38.165 --> 0:44:40.885
<v Speaker 1>and being on my own and you know, being a

0:44:40.885 --> 0:44:43.165
<v Speaker 1>bit traditional, They're like, you know, I guess hoping that

0:44:43.205 --> 0:44:45.165
<v Speaker 1>I'll find someone else and all that kind of stuff.

0:44:45.205 --> 0:44:47.925
<v Speaker 2>Did they want a grand child? Did they put that

0:44:47.965 --> 0:44:49.045
<v Speaker 2>pressure on you?

0:44:49.285 --> 0:44:50.645
<v Speaker 1>Mum mentioned it quite a bit.

0:44:50.885 --> 0:44:51.645
<v Speaker 2>Dad never.

0:44:53.245 --> 0:44:55.405
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think she really wanted one. But my brother

0:44:55.445 --> 0:44:55.765
<v Speaker 1>had four.

0:44:55.845 --> 0:44:58.565
<v Speaker 2>So you made up for everyone, Thank you, brother, I

0:44:58.645 --> 0:45:03.845
<v Speaker 2>didn't you? Yes, Yes, someone has to just just for

0:45:03.965 --> 0:45:05.925
<v Speaker 2>quiet in your family. Yeah.

0:45:06.365 --> 0:45:09.965
<v Speaker 1>So like for me, I think I've all always had

0:45:10.325 --> 0:45:15.125
<v Speaker 1>such a sort of creative, sort of chaotic way of

0:45:15.165 --> 0:45:21.285
<v Speaker 1>approaching life. It was so affirming for me to be

0:45:21.405 --> 0:45:28.445
<v Speaker 1>this in an environment where my brain type excelled because

0:45:28.605 --> 0:45:33.085
<v Speaker 1>it compresses the chaos, compresses into clarity. When I'm in

0:45:33.125 --> 0:45:39.365
<v Speaker 1>that sort of slightly highly charged panic situation, pressure makes diamonds. Yeah.

0:45:39.445 --> 0:45:44.005
<v Speaker 1>So I found that environment really exhilarating, and it made

0:45:44.045 --> 0:45:47.765
<v Speaker 1>me realize that all these things that I'd fought about

0:45:47.805 --> 0:45:55.485
<v Speaker 1>myself and fought or had kind of resisted about yourself,

0:45:56.005 --> 0:45:58.405
<v Speaker 1>Why am I like this? Why am I so disorganized?

0:45:58.445 --> 0:46:00.645
<v Speaker 1>Or why am I always this this and this. I

0:46:00.685 --> 0:46:02.845
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh wow, there is a place for it,

0:46:03.485 --> 0:46:08.005
<v Speaker 1>and it made me understand that it's it's also what

0:46:09.165 --> 0:46:13.005
<v Speaker 1>makes me creative. Yeah, so it was. Yeah, it did

0:46:13.085 --> 0:46:16.125
<v Speaker 1>so many things for me, like for my self esteem.

0:46:16.525 --> 0:46:20.045
<v Speaker 2>Would you like to know what the winner, who was

0:46:20.085 --> 0:46:24.365
<v Speaker 2>there till the end with you, thought of you, Julie. Yeah,

0:46:24.605 --> 0:46:25.365
<v Speaker 2>have a listen to this.

0:46:26.805 --> 0:46:29.205
<v Speaker 4>I'm so glad that I got to go through Master

0:46:29.285 --> 0:46:32.805
<v Speaker 4>Chef with Poe and be at the end standing next

0:46:32.805 --> 0:46:36.685
<v Speaker 4>to her. It's hard to describe, actually what a generous

0:46:37.045 --> 0:46:40.605
<v Speaker 4>spirit of a human being she is. I just love

0:46:40.605 --> 0:46:42.405
<v Speaker 4>her to death and I have ever since I met her.

0:46:42.485 --> 0:46:49.485
<v Speaker 4>She's hilariously funny, she's quirky and unique, she's insanely creative

0:46:49.805 --> 0:46:51.285
<v Speaker 4>and just a.

0:46:51.085 --> 0:46:54.605
<v Speaker 2>Gorgeous, gorgeous human being. I trust her, I love her.

0:46:54.645 --> 0:46:58.085
<v Speaker 4>She's my friend. And yeah, thank you for asking me

0:46:58.125 --> 0:46:59.325
<v Speaker 4>to say a few words about her.

0:46:59.525 --> 0:46:59.845
<v Speaker 2>Cheers.

0:47:00.205 --> 0:47:08.325
<v Speaker 5>Oh my gosh, jus, but oh my god, Poe's all

0:47:08.405 --> 0:47:10.365
<v Speaker 5>those things extraordinary.

0:47:10.525 --> 0:47:11.765
<v Speaker 1>She's so creative.

0:47:11.925 --> 0:47:14.885
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I think you don't get a sense of how

0:47:14.885 --> 0:47:18.325
<v Speaker 2>the world sees you, because of course you're looking at

0:47:18.325 --> 0:47:21.245
<v Speaker 2>the world through the prism of your own eyes. That

0:47:21.405 --> 0:47:24.885
<v Speaker 2>is how the world sees you and I also we

0:47:25.045 --> 0:47:30.125
<v Speaker 2>had a very dear joint friend we do, Cal Wilson. Yeah,

0:47:31.165 --> 0:47:34.485
<v Speaker 2>and you met Cal. I love the concept of people

0:47:34.525 --> 0:47:38.405
<v Speaker 2>who are open to new friendships throughout their life. You know,

0:47:38.485 --> 0:47:40.365
<v Speaker 2>some people go, well, this is my posse and this

0:47:40.485 --> 0:47:41.765
<v Speaker 2>is You're not that person.

0:47:42.085 --> 0:47:43.925
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm always adding.

0:47:44.125 --> 0:47:47.565
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you met Cal in the jungle. Yeah, she

0:47:47.725 --> 0:47:51.285
<v Speaker 2>was my bunkie and you became such a significant person

0:47:51.605 --> 0:47:52.485
<v Speaker 2>in her life.

0:47:52.805 --> 0:47:55.925
<v Speaker 1>I don't even actually know think I knew that, which

0:47:56.005 --> 0:48:01.005
<v Speaker 1>is so sad in a way, like I never dared

0:48:01.045 --> 0:48:03.165
<v Speaker 1>to think that, you know, because I yeah, because of

0:48:03.205 --> 0:48:07.965
<v Speaker 1>that thing where she's so established and but I adored her.

0:48:08.165 --> 0:48:11.685
<v Speaker 2>But Cow was the same. Cal was a quirky like

0:48:11.845 --> 0:48:14.245
<v Speaker 2>Cal also spend a lot of her time, I think,

0:48:14.285 --> 0:48:19.125
<v Speaker 2>feeling like she didn't really fit, and then when she

0:48:19.245 --> 0:48:23.765
<v Speaker 2>met you, it was like you rose to meet each other. Yeah.

0:48:23.805 --> 0:48:26.485
<v Speaker 1>She was my little piece of solace in the jungle.

0:48:26.525 --> 0:48:28.045
<v Speaker 1>As soon as I saw her walking and I was like,

0:48:28.085 --> 0:48:30.045
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, this is going to be okay, you know,

0:48:30.245 --> 0:48:32.285
<v Speaker 1>because you've done it and you're I.

0:48:32.245 --> 0:48:34.085
<v Speaker 2>Haven't done the jungle. Oh you haven't. Oh no, I

0:48:34.125 --> 0:48:37.565
<v Speaker 2>haven't done I'd never do the jungle. Look, you might

0:48:37.685 --> 0:48:45.365
<v Speaker 2>like to eat testicles, but you know that's not for

0:48:45.445 --> 0:48:46.045
<v Speaker 2>me yet.

0:48:47.045 --> 0:48:50.525
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so when you get in there, you do you do? Yeah,

0:48:50.565 --> 0:48:52.525
<v Speaker 1>you do sort of put your radar out. And like

0:48:52.565 --> 0:48:54.285
<v Speaker 1>as soon as I saw her, and you're I was

0:48:54.325 --> 0:48:57.085
<v Speaker 1>going to be fine, and yeah, she's I think we

0:48:57.165 --> 0:49:01.525
<v Speaker 1>actually got closer outside of it in a way because

0:49:01.525 --> 0:49:03.325
<v Speaker 1>you know, you miked up and all that kind of stuff.

0:49:03.765 --> 0:49:04.925
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, what a.

0:49:06.565 --> 0:49:14.165
<v Speaker 1>Divine human. And I say, I don't use the word divine.

0:49:14.645 --> 0:49:18.085
<v Speaker 1>I'm not just throwing that out there. I say divine

0:49:18.205 --> 0:49:23.805
<v Speaker 1>because she's literally godly in her ability to love and

0:49:23.925 --> 0:49:32.085
<v Speaker 1>give like infinitely, you know. At her memorial, it was

0:49:32.125 --> 0:49:34.885
<v Speaker 1>so funny because I was really I wanted to talk

0:49:34.925 --> 0:49:39.605
<v Speaker 1>about how she's such a little pebbler, like, you know,

0:49:39.645 --> 0:49:44.205
<v Speaker 1>she'd always give, you know, give you little gifts. And

0:49:44.245 --> 0:49:47.165
<v Speaker 1>when she passed away, and she was very crafty, very crafty,

0:49:47.765 --> 0:49:51.445
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize, but at every corner of my house

0:49:51.485 --> 0:49:56.005
<v Speaker 1>there's a little cow thing she's given me. And it's

0:49:56.045 --> 0:49:58.245
<v Speaker 1>so strange because I'd only known her for a couple

0:49:58.245 --> 0:50:00.645
<v Speaker 1>of years at that point, and I was like, how

0:50:00.685 --> 0:50:03.285
<v Speaker 1>she managed to infiltrate my entire house even though I've

0:50:03.325 --> 0:50:07.325
<v Speaker 1>only seen her like a handful of times essentially, and

0:50:07.365 --> 0:50:10.805
<v Speaker 1>we were really close. So at the memorial, I wanted

0:50:10.845 --> 0:50:13.085
<v Speaker 1>to talk about that, and I was like, I don't

0:50:13.125 --> 0:50:16.085
<v Speaker 1>want to brag that she's given me so many presents.

0:50:17.085 --> 0:50:20.845
<v Speaker 1>Everyone about it and I was like, yeah, it's okay.

0:50:21.085 --> 0:50:23.525
<v Speaker 1>But then also, oh my god, how did she have

0:50:23.605 --> 0:50:28.925
<v Speaker 1>this capacity to love everyone so hard and thoroughly and

0:50:29.005 --> 0:50:32.725
<v Speaker 1>make space so much space for people and proper space,

0:50:32.885 --> 0:50:34.645
<v Speaker 1>like thoughtful.

0:50:35.525 --> 0:50:38.165
<v Speaker 2>Where you know, Like, but I think you have the

0:50:38.205 --> 0:50:41.245
<v Speaker 2>same capacity. Okay, thank you. I think you do.

0:50:41.485 --> 0:50:42.125
<v Speaker 1>It's so kind.

0:50:42.245 --> 0:50:45.165
<v Speaker 2>I think that's what people respond to about you is

0:50:45.205 --> 0:50:48.485
<v Speaker 2>there's a certain openness. And I think a lot of

0:50:48.485 --> 0:50:51.845
<v Speaker 2>people as you travel through life with its slings and

0:50:51.965 --> 0:50:54.565
<v Speaker 2>arrows and the pains, and as my mother says, in

0:50:54.605 --> 0:50:57.005
<v Speaker 2>a classic mother way, the longer you live, the more

0:50:57.125 --> 0:50:59.965
<v Speaker 2>bad things are going to happen to you. It's true,

0:51:00.325 --> 0:51:03.925
<v Speaker 2>but it is true, it's true. How do you retain

0:51:04.405 --> 0:51:10.125
<v Speaker 2>this openness to the world, the soft under belly.

0:51:10.525 --> 0:51:14.525
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I'm always like that. And I think I've

0:51:14.525 --> 0:51:16.645
<v Speaker 1>always been like that since I was a kid, even

0:51:16.685 --> 0:51:18.725
<v Speaker 1>though I was shy. I think I've always been very

0:51:19.325 --> 0:51:22.405
<v Speaker 1>I think curiosity. That is the main word that comes

0:51:22.405 --> 0:51:26.285
<v Speaker 1>to my mind. I'm curious about how I can feel more,

0:51:26.645 --> 0:51:30.405
<v Speaker 1>what experiences I can put myself into. I'm very greedy

0:51:30.605 --> 0:51:33.045
<v Speaker 1>for because i think a lot of people think that,

0:51:33.245 --> 0:51:36.005
<v Speaker 1>you know, I've landed in this position of you know,

0:51:36.205 --> 0:51:38.765
<v Speaker 1>working in the media because I'm greedy for attention, but

0:51:39.285 --> 0:51:41.645
<v Speaker 1>I'm really not. I mean a lot. I really love

0:51:42.325 --> 0:51:45.525
<v Speaker 1>being acknowledged and recognized for things that I think I'm

0:51:45.725 --> 0:51:47.965
<v Speaker 1>decent at that I've worked very hard at, you know,

0:51:48.165 --> 0:51:53.205
<v Speaker 1>being okay at. But it's more that my greed for

0:51:53.765 --> 0:51:55.125
<v Speaker 1>life experiences.

0:51:55.805 --> 0:51:58.325
<v Speaker 2>But how are you not how does that not get

0:51:58.365 --> 0:52:00.885
<v Speaker 2>replaced with fear, you know, because a lot of people

0:52:00.925 --> 0:52:04.485
<v Speaker 2>are held back by the fear of failure or the

0:52:04.485 --> 0:52:07.245
<v Speaker 2>fear of success. Yeah, I love.

0:52:09.565 --> 0:52:14.005
<v Speaker 1>I love new feelings, like experiencing new kinds of feelings,

0:52:14.045 --> 0:52:15.005
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm so curious.

0:52:15.085 --> 0:52:16.765
<v Speaker 2>Like even when I was going through.

0:52:16.525 --> 0:52:19.485
<v Speaker 1>Grief, and I think it's the age, it hit me

0:52:19.525 --> 0:52:22.085
<v Speaker 1>at a really good age. And also being on my

0:52:22.285 --> 0:52:24.645
<v Speaker 1>own was great as well, to be able to process

0:52:24.685 --> 0:52:27.885
<v Speaker 1>grief on my own because I was just so hyper

0:52:28.005 --> 0:52:32.125
<v Speaker 1>aware of all these privileges that I had, Like, wow,

0:52:32.285 --> 0:52:34.725
<v Speaker 1>I can process this without a husband and children, So

0:52:34.765 --> 0:52:38.205
<v Speaker 1>I can completely immerse myself in this without having to.

0:52:38.125 --> 0:52:39.605
<v Speaker 2>Look after any worry of that.

0:52:39.765 --> 0:52:44.045
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the luxury of that, and really deep dive into

0:52:44.085 --> 0:52:46.405
<v Speaker 1>it and within it. I was still able to find

0:52:46.645 --> 0:52:50.645
<v Speaker 1>so many, so much beauty in the sorrow, like I

0:52:50.725 --> 0:52:53.845
<v Speaker 1>really could. And I think it's because I'm always searching

0:52:53.925 --> 0:52:59.965
<v Speaker 1>for it. I'm not afraid of feeling so like, you know,

0:53:00.845 --> 0:53:04.965
<v Speaker 1>fear all the whole gamut. I love it. I love

0:53:05.325 --> 0:53:07.165
<v Speaker 1>because it's what it is to be human. So if

0:53:07.205 --> 0:53:08.565
<v Speaker 1>you're not going to feel, what the hell are you

0:53:08.605 --> 0:53:09.325
<v Speaker 1>going to do? Right?

0:53:09.885 --> 0:53:18.685
<v Speaker 2>I think? Yeah, I love you.

0:53:18.885 --> 0:53:22.085
<v Speaker 1>I love you too, and I you know, I've it's

0:53:22.165 --> 0:53:25.805
<v Speaker 1>been embarrassing because because we've met properly through another dear

0:53:25.845 --> 0:53:26.245
<v Speaker 1>friend of.

0:53:28.005 --> 0:53:31.525
<v Speaker 2>The other Kate, the other Kate Sebrann, and my son

0:53:31.645 --> 0:53:32.965
<v Speaker 2>is going out with her daughter.

0:53:33.325 --> 0:53:39.165
<v Speaker 1>And I've actually spent some time with who's absolutely gorgeous

0:53:39.205 --> 0:53:48.125
<v Speaker 1>and so your son, do you think, yeah, ah, that's interesting, Yeah, but.

0:53:46.565 --> 0:53:47.125
<v Speaker 2>But yeah it was.

0:53:47.765 --> 0:53:51.165
<v Speaker 1>I've secretly always wanted to be your friend, So that

0:53:51.325 --> 0:53:54.205
<v Speaker 1>was really it was so lovely to meet you that day.

0:53:54.365 --> 0:53:56.005
<v Speaker 1>And we had such a fun day, didn't we.

0:53:56.165 --> 0:53:57.085
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it was the greatest.

0:53:57.165 --> 0:54:06.125
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was so spontaneous.

0:54:02.125 --> 0:54:05.325
<v Speaker 2>So Poe and I kept up the jibber jabber long

0:54:05.405 --> 0:54:09.805
<v Speaker 2>after we had stopped recording. And who is one of

0:54:09.845 --> 0:54:14.125
<v Speaker 2>those people that you could talk to anywhere, anytime, for

0:54:14.285 --> 0:54:16.965
<v Speaker 2>any amount of time. There's so much that we didn't

0:54:17.005 --> 0:54:19.885
<v Speaker 2>get up to. By the way, I believe her to

0:54:19.925 --> 0:54:23.365
<v Speaker 2>be much more Buddhist than she thinks she is if

0:54:23.405 --> 0:54:25.845
<v Speaker 2>you listen to the tale of what she's learnt about

0:54:25.925 --> 0:54:28.925
<v Speaker 2>loss and life. And we didn't get onto her love

0:54:28.965 --> 0:54:31.645
<v Speaker 2>of bees, and we didn't get onto how she makes

0:54:31.645 --> 0:54:35.365
<v Speaker 2>his amazing jam tarts. I mean, there's so much. Poe

0:54:35.405 --> 0:54:37.805
<v Speaker 2>is currently one of the judges on Master Chef. You

0:54:37.845 --> 0:54:40.405
<v Speaker 2>can watch the series Monday to Wednesday at seven thirty

0:54:40.405 --> 0:54:43.805
<v Speaker 2>pm on ten and ten Play. The executive producer of

0:54:43.845 --> 0:54:48.085
<v Speaker 2>No Filter is Nama Brown. The senior producer is Grace Ruvret.

0:54:48.765 --> 0:54:51.925
<v Speaker 2>Audio production is by Jacob Brown and I'm your host,

0:54:52.205 --> 0:54:55.885
<v Speaker 2>Kate lane Brook. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening.