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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of the one that made the first move.

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Speaker 1: I was just painting one day in front of the

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Speaker 1: and I was standing in front of the easel and

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Speaker 1: it just came to me clear as a bell.

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Speaker 2: It was like, you need to do.

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Speaker 1: It right now. And I literally legged it to the

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Speaker 1: birth death marriages and got a divorce kid and then

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Speaker 1: served it to him. Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Kate Lanebrook and welcome to No Filter. I don't

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Speaker 2: think you could find anyone in Australia who doesn't absolutely

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Speaker 2: adore Poling. Now, even if people don't know, she's got

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Speaker 2: three names, and her name isn't just Poe. I mean

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Speaker 2: those are my words, not hers, And honestly, I think

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Speaker 2: it made her a little bit uncomfortable when I said

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Speaker 2: it to her face, but it's true. There's something about Poe.

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Speaker 2: She's one of those rare people who bring sunshine into

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Speaker 2: any room she walks into. Now you might know her

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Speaker 2: as an artist, a chef, a TV presenter. She wears

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Speaker 2: many hats, but that's just the public side of Poe.

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Speaker 2: Because behind the scenes. Her story is rich and deep

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Speaker 2: and at times painful. She spent years in the church

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Speaker 2: before walking away from it, which left her untangling years

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Speaker 2: of belief and identity. She's navigated profound grief, not just

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Speaker 2: in the traditional sense of loss, but also through the

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Speaker 2: heartbreak of two major relationship breakdowns. In this conversation, Poe

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Speaker 2: opens up about all of it, about the loneliness, the questioning,

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Speaker 2: the rebuilding. She says she's often felt like an alien

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Speaker 2: trying to work out where she fits. But through it all,

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Speaker 2: she's discovered something quite extraordinary, and she shares it an

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Speaker 2: ability to find beauty in the sorrow, light in the mess,

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Speaker 2: and humor in the most unexpected places. This is a

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Speaker 2: conversation about identity, resilience, creativity, CONGI, and what it means

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Speaker 2: to start over again and again. But we started with

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Speaker 2: a bit of a laugh as I needed Poe's help

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Speaker 2: on a very urgent problem I had. I need you

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Speaker 2: in a professional capacity as well as your divine personal self.

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Speaker 2: So after this, by the time people hear this, you

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Speaker 2: will have been on the Sampang show. Yes, you will

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Speaker 2: have been pushed into a Christmas tree, which is the

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Speaker 2: ultimate honor. On that show.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing that that was on my list.

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Speaker 3: Well, and who even knew that that was a thing.

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Speaker 2: I did the show last night and made the mistake

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Speaker 2: of having dinner with them after the show. Yes, I'm

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Speaker 2: very shabby. I'm wearing the same book. Oh so, Oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, you're hilarious. Yes, it's terrible. It comes.

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Speaker 1: Did you do Walk of Shame to work today?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I did exactly, and I thought I'll poell understand.

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Speaker 1: I totally understand. I love it.

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Speaker 2: What would you make someone who's hungover?

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Speaker 1: Oh congie? Oh the rice poy because it's got ginger,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's like very warming and slurpy.

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Speaker 2: Oh so not a fried thing?

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Speaker 1: No, oh yeah, I would do conji. And then you

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Speaker 1: have all the pickles and stuff like that with it.

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Speaker 2: Really okay because I am a bit pickled, are you?

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Speaker 2: So you don't need any more pickles? And you know

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Speaker 2: the other thing, because people were talking us, in fact,

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Speaker 2: everyone that I've mentioned that I'm going to be talking

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Speaker 2: to you, yeaes seed. Everyone's like, this will not come

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Speaker 2: as a surprise to you. Oh my god, I love Poe.

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Speaker 1: It's so lovely.

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Speaker 2: It's so lovely. But I need to know who hates Poe, who.

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Speaker 1: Hates po people out there? I'm sure, But do you

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Speaker 1: know what's really interesting? I think if you because on

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Speaker 1: my socials they don't really show up. Now that I've

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Speaker 1: now that I've said this, they will. And the more

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Speaker 1: commercial you become, the more invite of course. So when

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Speaker 1: I was at the ABC, I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: Nan haters Nan. Yeah, like on the ABC that stupid

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Speaker 1: girl and her fake last that kind of thing. And

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Speaker 1: also I saw that in that little cut she put

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Speaker 1: the salt in and the salt still on the table.

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Speaker 2: Oh I can't you know that kind of thing? Well

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Speaker 2: that not really.

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Speaker 3: You know, you say proper travel through life?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, deeply and resoundingly loved, which is very unusual from

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Speaker 2: someone who occupies a public space.

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Speaker 1: That makes me feel so uncomfortable, I know.

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Speaker 2: But it is quite an extraordinary thing. No one ever

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Speaker 2: goes op pos. She's very polarized.

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Speaker 3: It's just not a phrase that exists, is it.

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Speaker 1: Look, whenever I say this, I feel very self conscious

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Speaker 1: because it sounds like I'm giving myself a pat on

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Speaker 1: the back, But I'm not. I feel so loved by

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Speaker 1: the Australian public generally and I'm so grateful for it,

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Speaker 1: and I want to acknowledge it because I feel so.

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Speaker 2: Fortunate to have that.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know why, but there are lots of

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Speaker 1: people that are annoyed by me. They pop up once

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Speaker 1: in a while, not not lots a few.

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Speaker 2: People out there. I think maybe with your maybe with

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Speaker 2: your like market benchure, maybe with jam face, your cooking business,

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Speaker 2: there'd be some other people that are like I was

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Speaker 2: making those biscuits before Poe or some kind of like

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Speaker 2: little yeah, little yeah or something yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I've had people get really mad at me because

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Speaker 1: I couldn't come out and like, you know, sign a

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Speaker 1: napkin when I was in the middle of running the bakery.

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Speaker 1: I don't realize that they're not watching Telly. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: an accounted for body at work, do.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So and then they're like, you know, she snubbed me,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I didn't snub you. I just

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Speaker 1: was like in the middle of serving like thirty customers.

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Speaker 2: Well, because this is a very interesting thing about you

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Speaker 2: as well. So you're an artist. I think people know that.

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Speaker 2: I think so yeah, before you started like cooking, yes, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you have your own business. I do you live in Adelaide, Yes,

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Speaker 2: and your business is run by you? Yes, it is.

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Speaker 2: So you don't have a commercial kitchen where you've got minions. No. No.

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Speaker 1: So I tried to have a cafe and I had

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Speaker 1: it for about five years. I'm really bad with time.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so am I? Yeah? I think I had

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Speaker 2: it for about five yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I thought that's

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Speaker 2: what I was on.

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Speaker 3: The tax department will leave you.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm more good there.

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Speaker 1: So I had I had the farmer's market first, right,

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Speaker 1: because I wanted to just dip my toe into it.

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Speaker 2: And then and then.

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Speaker 1: It went really well. So we opened a cafe and

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Speaker 1: I found it. It was great for three years, but

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Speaker 1: I literally had to put my life on hold. It

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Speaker 1: felt like I had birth like quads overnight because I

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Speaker 1: and I was quite aware of this that I have

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Speaker 1: no skills in managing people and training as well. It's

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Speaker 1: so difficult, and because I've spent most of my life

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Speaker 1: working solo as an artist, it's always about just I

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Speaker 1: hand me expressing my love of a thing that I

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Speaker 1: love to do. And when it turned into that, I

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Speaker 1: hated it and I thought I had to go back

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Speaker 1: to the beginning. So I got rid of the cafe

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Speaker 1: and just went back to the farm, which I'd had

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Speaker 1: the whole time.

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Speaker 2: When you say we, who was we? Also?

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Speaker 1: So me my and my two business partners, which is

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Speaker 1: my ex and.

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Speaker 2: My hang on.

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Speaker 3: Which this is the other thing that people may may

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Speaker 3: know about you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you you were married, Yes, you were married

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Speaker 2: to Matt. Right, and you were married to Matt because

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Speaker 2: you seem to have these ten year cycles in your life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I do. Yeah, So Matt I was

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Speaker 1: with for ten years and then when John I was

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Speaker 1: twelve years Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right, so John I was your second husband and Matt

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Speaker 2: your first husband. You met while you were a mormal, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: which I find extraordinary because I was raised to Jehovah's

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Speaker 2: witness And you know, people always get those religions mixed up.

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Speaker 1: They do because they prosely both.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Run so which yeah? Door knock, yeah, door knock? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Did you do that?

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Speaker 1: I did do it did a month in my home town.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you were a little bad or sister yow and

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Speaker 2: you so you would knock on people's doors? And is

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Speaker 2: that the Church of Latter day Saints? It is?

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Speaker 3: So you would say you knock on the door.

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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm sister, I'm from the Church of that Day Saints.

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Speaker 1: Would you have a moment so that we could give

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Speaker 1: you a message? Right? And if they had a moment,

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Speaker 1: what would the message be, Well, we'd go in, we'd

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Speaker 1: present the Book of Mormons. So much it was like

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Speaker 1: just dissipated. I had a terrible memory, and which.

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Speaker 2: I think is a blessing, by the way, I think

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Speaker 2: so too. Do you know what?

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Speaker 1: I used to think that I was really resilient because

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Speaker 1: there's been a few things in my life that some

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Speaker 1: people would consider to be quite traumatic, but I have

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Speaker 1: I don't. I kind of just slip out of them

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty easily. And I used to think it's because

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Speaker 1: I was resilient, but I actually think.

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Speaker 2: You can't remember it. But you know, it's an interesting

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Speaker 2: thing about humans because we have a capacity to remember

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Speaker 2: the good things. That's why people have more than one child.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And also when you've broken up with someone, you

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Speaker 1: often find yourself reminiscing just the good times.

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Speaker 2: Yes, not the that's right. Yeah, but when you talk

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Speaker 2: about traumatic things, is one of them the breakup with

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Speaker 2: your first husband?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, both breakups, and then like like mum's passing, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was away for that.

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Speaker 2: Which was just shit. Were you overseas it was?

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Speaker 1: Yea.

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Speaker 2: What part of your life were you in when when

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Speaker 2: this happened. Where were you at? I was in a

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Speaker 2: really good place.

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Speaker 1: And I was in I was I was actually when

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Speaker 1: she got ill. Because mom and I have always had

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Speaker 1: this slightly spiky relationship.

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Speaker 2: And let me grapple with the concept of the daughter

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Speaker 2: having a spine exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's the same thing, isn't it. It's female female, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just always fe in the head. Oh my god, yes, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And also because you were raised as well by

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Speaker 2: your auntie Kim, who you were very close to.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so there was that tension between.

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Speaker 2: Your mum and yeah little.

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Speaker 1: Bit yeah yeah, not her sister, her auntie, her aunt Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you're great auntie, yeah, my great auntie right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So there's always been these little tensions and it just

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Speaker 1: is the way it is. And before she passed away,

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Speaker 1: she actually said to me, you know, I know, whenever

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Speaker 1: there's these rifts in the house with all the women,

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Speaker 1: you because her and Auntie just squabbled NonStop, and she says,

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Speaker 1: you know, you need to think about the fact that

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Speaker 1: she came to live with us when your brother was born,

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Speaker 1: shortly after your brother was born, So she's kind of

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Speaker 1: been around our whole lives. Dad and I have never

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Speaker 1: really been on our own.

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Speaker 2: And so she came out from Malaysia with you, Yes

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Speaker 2: she did, which is an amazing uprooting. Is she devoted

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Speaker 2: her life to you, yeah, and your family, yeah, your brother. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She never had her own life. She never dated, never

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Speaker 1: had any relationships. She kind of just devoted herself to

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Speaker 1: my family. And she was adopted, and so she was

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Speaker 1: always kind of this outcast in the family in a way.

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Speaker 1: And I think she just found something.

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Speaker 2: With us that she really loved.

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Speaker 1: She was only supposed to come and help mum look

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Speaker 1: after my brother for a little while, but she ended

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Speaker 1: up never leaving because she loved it so much. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: being with us, and I think.

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Speaker 2: She's your mom loved that she did. I don't think she.

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Speaker 1: Knows any better because imagine having being young and having

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Speaker 1: like an older woman come and help you. It would

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Speaker 1: be divided, yeah, which is what it is back in

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Speaker 1: the day, right, Like it's quite common for grandparents extended family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And it's the other way, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I was reading this thing about how to raise independent

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Speaker 1: children recently and it's it's it's so hard. Now, that's

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Speaker 1: why there's just so many issues with the youth, because

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Speaker 1: the resources are half. So many single parents, yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's across all so socioeconomic.

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Speaker 2: And even if it's not single parents. I remember reading

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Speaker 2: once the nuclear family is two people doing the work

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Speaker 2: of the tribe. That's right. Why did I think of

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Speaker 2: that when I had four children and my husband and

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Speaker 2: I would sometimes look like it is it's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so you had this and particularly in Asian families. Well two.

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Speaker 2: So your auntie came without that familial lineage, yes, because

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Speaker 2: she was adopted. Yeah, yeah, so she was looking for

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Speaker 2: her place, I think so.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she was adopted as a baby, so she's

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Speaker 1: very loved by all the extended family. But there was

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Speaker 1: something about our situation that I think gave her purpose

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Speaker 1: and she really loved. Yeah, I think looking after my

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Speaker 1: brother and myself and me.

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Speaker 2: And so when you were overseas, your mom said to

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Speaker 2: you before you went away.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she said go and I checked in with her.

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Speaker 1: But I wish I hadn't. I wish I had just

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Speaker 1: used my intuition, and the way I had to unpack

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Speaker 1: it was to understand that I'm a bit of a

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Speaker 1: risk taker and I just took a really bad risk.

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Speaker 1: And I think if I had my way again, I

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Speaker 1: probably would have done the same thing, because it's my

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Speaker 1: nature to do that. Yes, And that's how I've been

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Speaker 1: able to get over it. Yes, it's just to accept

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Speaker 1: that that crap decision was probably always going to be

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Speaker 1: that crap decision? Do you know what I'm saying? Because

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Speaker 1: of my nature?

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Speaker 2: But how important do you think?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: This is always a thing in grief and loss and

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Speaker 2: farewelling someone who's you know, one of the only two

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Speaker 2: trees in your orchard? Yeah a parents, Yeah you've still

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Speaker 2: have got three trees. Would it have been more important

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Speaker 2: for her for you to be there or more important

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Speaker 2: for you to be there?

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Speaker 1: I think both. I think she would have loved it

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Speaker 1: if I was there. But it's interesting when I do

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Speaker 1: feel there is I definitely feel like people choose to go. Yes, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I go because she waited till I was in a

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Speaker 1: position where I shouldn't have had any reception. I was

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Speaker 1: on some weird like hell in this I don't know

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Speaker 1: where I was.

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Speaker 2: I don't know where you were.

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Speaker 1: I was, I I was Where were you? I was

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Speaker 1: in Austria or like sound of music ish, No, No,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't in Austria. Where was I Vienna? I think

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Speaker 1: I was in Vienna? Yeah, Schnitzel, Yeah yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: Fay you said that, because that actually came to my

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Speaker 1: mind when I was trying to figure out I was anyway,

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Speaker 1: And so you know how funny it is like with

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Speaker 1: certain people they would know exactly the time, the place,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just I don't care anyway.

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Speaker 2: It's it's a feeling for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so I I had just gotten a text from

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Speaker 1: my god sister, Mum's goddaughter and she said, hey, I

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Speaker 1: think you should FaceTime your mom now, and I was

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Speaker 1: like okay. So I was like okay, good luck to

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Speaker 1: me and managed to talk and everyone was around her

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Speaker 1: at that point, and I was like, hi, Mom, and

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Speaker 1: I already made a decision. I said, hey, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to come home really really soon. And I really met

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Speaker 1: the next day, but I didn't want to sort of

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Speaker 1: stir her up too much.

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Speaker 2: She looked really really weak.

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Speaker 1: And she said no, no, no, she goes you just stay

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Speaker 1: and finish your thing. And I could feel she really

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Speaker 1: meant it, and I think it's because she knew she

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to be able to hang on for that long.

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Speaker 1: But pretty much after she spoke to me, like hours later,

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Speaker 1: she passed away, like maybe eight hours later, eight or

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Speaker 1: ten hours.

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Speaker 2: Like were you on the plane then or no?

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Speaker 1: I was asleep, so I'd gone to bed, and the

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Speaker 1: next day I was, yeah, I was about to come home,

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Speaker 1: but I yeah, then it was just like speedy get

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Speaker 1: on the first plane.

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Speaker 2: And where were you in relation to your personal relationships

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Speaker 2: at that time? Single? Sproken up with Johno?

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Speaker 1: And I was just, yeah, I've been in a really

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Speaker 1: good place for like years now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: Very single, Yeah, very single, A very single, very single

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Speaker 1: and not dating? You're not dating and.

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Speaker 3: Now not dating? No, I don't know how, Kate, No,

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I imagine, imagine if he.

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Speaker 1: Was single right now, how would you do it? I

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Speaker 1: literally how to do it? Like I don't have any solutions.

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Speaker 1: To keep asking people and they're like, you know, Raya whatever,

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Speaker 1: Like no, it's.

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Speaker 2: Just but how did you meet? Like John O? So

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Speaker 2: he was a.

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Speaker 1: Runner on Master Chef last season one was a member.

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Speaker 2: When you said that was two thousand and nine nine, ye,

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Speaker 2: where you sprang onto our greens and obviously you'd caught

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Speaker 2: his eye.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we caught each other's eyes.

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Speaker 3: And at what point did you realize that was going

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 1: I think it was he had kind of sort of

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Speaker 1: like thirty kind of personality, and I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's all the girls.

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Speaker 2: He's doing it to all the girls.

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Speaker 1: But then I kind of realized there was definitely some

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00:19:07,085 --> 00:19:11,125
Speaker 1: kind of proper energy there. And it was interesting because

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Speaker 1: it became a very traditional kind of old fashioned courtship

349
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Speaker 1: because we're not allowed to frat nines with us with

350
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Speaker 1: the crew, no, Hjara really onto that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good old day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah, and there ever was such a thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it was just like sort of reduced

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Speaker 1: to little cute looks across the yard. And he used

355
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Speaker 1: to travel us back and from the house to the

356
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Speaker 1: studio and so we'd sort of just have a little

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00:19:38,565 --> 00:19:41,125
Speaker 1: look in the rearview vision mirror that was it, and

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Speaker 1: then say hi to each other, hello and goodbye. So

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Speaker 1: it's very cute, yeah, very bronze sisters. Oh my god,

360
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Speaker 1: it's so he just saw.

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Speaker 3: A glimpse of your stocking dangle.

362
00:19:53,485 --> 00:20:00,725
Speaker 2: And there is That's not all of my conversation with Poe.

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00:20:01,405 --> 00:20:04,765
Speaker 2: Coming up after the break, we talk about the first

364
00:20:05,045 --> 00:20:10,125
Speaker 2: ever season of Mastershif, the very definitive decision for Poe

365
00:20:10,165 --> 00:20:15,245
Speaker 2: to leave her husband, her first husband, and Poe reveals

366
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Speaker 2: a sneaky intensity in her personality. What Don't Go Anywhere?

367
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Speaker 2: That was a remarkable season. Yeah, it wasn't that season one,

368
00:20:26,525 --> 00:20:27,045
Speaker 2: Yeah it was.

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Speaker 1: It was the thing like we all went into it

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Speaker 1: just not knowing what any reality TV wasn't even really

371
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Speaker 1: a big thing then, and so the word amongst the

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Speaker 1: crew was just like this is mad, like to do

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Speaker 1: a reality TV cooking show in Australia.

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Speaker 2: It's just such a weird idea.

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Speaker 1: And then as the show went on again through whispers

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00:20:49,845 --> 00:20:52,245
Speaker 1: of the because we were on proper lockdown in season

377
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Speaker 1: for like the first few years, I think we were

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Speaker 1: all on proper lockdowns, like because it was you had

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Speaker 1: time ten minute two time to ten minute phone calls

380
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Speaker 1: a week or not prison, its proper prison.

381
00:21:04,205 --> 00:21:06,925
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And like how long did the shooting of

382
00:21:06,965 --> 00:21:07,845
Speaker 2: the series take?

383
00:21:08,005 --> 00:21:08,965
Speaker 1: Five months?

384
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Speaker 2: Wow?

385
00:21:09,845 --> 00:21:12,525
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it went because I went all the way

386
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Speaker 1: to the end.

387
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Speaker 2: You sure did, I sure did. And then how was

388
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Speaker 2: that for your family?

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00:21:19,605 --> 00:21:24,165
Speaker 1: They they loved it. They had no idea, obviously, no

390
00:21:24,205 --> 00:21:26,805
Speaker 1: one knew what it was going to be, but it

391
00:21:26,885 --> 00:21:32,285
Speaker 1: was such a It was such an amazing experience for me,

392
00:21:32,365 --> 00:21:34,525
Speaker 1: and I see it all the time now as a judge,

393
00:21:35,245 --> 00:21:39,885
Speaker 1: where people who have felt disconnected to their families find

394
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Speaker 1: connection when they come on the show because it's something

395
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Speaker 1: for the whole family to rally behind and they just.

396
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Speaker 2: Find a way to.

397
00:21:50,885 --> 00:21:53,765
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just find that solidarity again, which is so nice.

398
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Speaker 1: And I didn't. It wasn't like my family was broken

399
00:21:56,165 --> 00:21:59,845
Speaker 1: up or anything. But I think my parents had always

400
00:21:59,885 --> 00:22:02,765
Speaker 1: been a bit worried about me because I've lived such

401
00:22:02,765 --> 00:22:04,245
Speaker 1: an unorthodox path.

402
00:22:04,565 --> 00:22:10,205
Speaker 2: Yes, and they were very orthodox in their desires for you.

403
00:22:10,205 --> 00:22:12,245
Speaker 1: No, I give them a lot of credit for that.

404
00:22:12,285 --> 00:22:14,685
Speaker 1: As migrant parents, they weren't sort of like you have

405
00:22:14,765 --> 00:22:17,125
Speaker 1: to be a doctor or an accountant or anything like that.

406
00:22:17,045 --> 00:22:20,685
Speaker 3: But they came to Australia because they wanted, yes for you.

407
00:22:20,845 --> 00:22:23,325
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Kate, I was such a dunce student,

408
00:22:23,765 --> 00:22:27,645
Speaker 1: like I just kind of you want yeah, Yeah, I

409
00:22:27,685 --> 00:22:32,525
Speaker 1: was a little daydreamer, So I was terrible academically, which

410
00:22:32,605 --> 00:22:34,925
Speaker 1: is all it's about. When you're in an Asian country.

411
00:22:35,205 --> 00:22:38,325
Speaker 1: There's very little sort of focus on social or sport

412
00:22:38,485 --> 00:22:42,045
Speaker 1: or any kind of like social development activities. It's more

413
00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:45,965
Speaker 1: just all about academia. And I just failed, so dismally.

414
00:22:46,685 --> 00:22:49,285
Speaker 1: I was at the back, cutting up my graph paper

415
00:22:49,365 --> 00:22:54,005
Speaker 1: into noodles and scratching coins and making a little hawk

416
00:22:54,045 --> 00:23:08,725
Speaker 1: a store in the back, pencils to season at mass.

417
00:23:03,325 --> 00:23:04,445
Speaker 2: Always in my own little world.

418
00:23:06,605 --> 00:23:09,005
Speaker 1: So they're like, Okay, I think this is going to

419
00:23:09,045 --> 00:23:14,645
Speaker 1: be a but interesting food interesting, don't forget the season

420
00:23:16,005 --> 00:23:17,685
Speaker 1: because we had a lot of street store So I

421
00:23:17,765 --> 00:23:19,965
Speaker 1: used to love that was like a favorite thing of

422
00:23:20,005 --> 00:23:22,205
Speaker 1: mine to watch all the street vendors cook.

423
00:23:22,765 --> 00:23:24,405
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I would just do that.

424
00:23:24,725 --> 00:23:28,365
Speaker 1: And so yeah, my parents, my parents, my mum, I

425
00:23:28,365 --> 00:23:33,925
Speaker 1: think mainly recognize that I had a dubious academic future there.

426
00:23:34,485 --> 00:23:37,205
Speaker 1: And her brothers were already living in Adelaide.

427
00:23:37,605 --> 00:23:40,165
Speaker 2: They were borders. Yep, they were borders.

428
00:23:40,485 --> 00:23:45,245
Speaker 1: They finished school, studied, you know, had really you know,

429
00:23:45,285 --> 00:23:48,245
Speaker 1: went to university there, married there, so they were settled.

430
00:23:48,325 --> 00:23:50,765
Speaker 1: And back then it was quite easy to sponsor a

431
00:23:50,805 --> 00:23:54,165
Speaker 1: relative over. It's much harder now. So yeah, we came

432
00:23:54,245 --> 00:23:57,525
Speaker 1: over to infrastructure family.

433
00:23:57,565 --> 00:23:59,085
Speaker 2: And so you were like eight or nine?

434
00:23:59,445 --> 00:23:59,805
Speaker 1: Was nine?

435
00:23:59,805 --> 00:24:02,165
Speaker 2: I turned nine on the plane. Oh yeah.

436
00:24:02,445 --> 00:24:05,205
Speaker 1: So every time it's my birthdate, it's also the anniversary

437
00:24:05,365 --> 00:24:07,445
Speaker 1: of how long we've been in Estra.

438
00:24:07,605 --> 00:24:10,325
Speaker 2: And then I think this is so interesting because okay,

439
00:24:10,365 --> 00:24:16,965
Speaker 2: twofold one migrant families who either have two kind of responses,

440
00:24:16,965 --> 00:24:19,605
Speaker 2: because my parents were migrants as well, that either they

441
00:24:19,725 --> 00:24:24,325
Speaker 2: run to Australia yep, open arms and like land of opportunity,

442
00:24:24,765 --> 00:24:28,725
Speaker 2: or they enclave themselves. Yes, your parents sound like they

443
00:24:28,725 --> 00:24:31,245
Speaker 2: were like, this is the land of opportunity, Land of opportunity,

444
00:24:31,245 --> 00:24:33,205
Speaker 2: for sure. And you felt that even as a nine

445
00:24:33,245 --> 00:24:33,605
Speaker 2: year old.

446
00:24:33,645 --> 00:24:38,885
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, yes, I remember. I felt like

447
00:24:38,965 --> 00:24:42,845
Speaker 1: my childhood had a very dark energy to it. I

448
00:24:42,925 --> 00:24:47,045
Speaker 1: felt very out of place. It's really weird, Like it's

449
00:24:47,085 --> 00:24:49,765
Speaker 1: so distinct to me. It's that feeling thing again right

450
00:24:50,205 --> 00:24:54,045
Speaker 1: where I just felt always like an alien, like I'd

451
00:24:54,045 --> 00:24:56,565
Speaker 1: been beamed in from somewhere else, right, like that you

452
00:24:56,685 --> 00:25:00,125
Speaker 1: didn't quite belong to you. No, No, I didn't understand

453
00:25:00,165 --> 00:25:02,285
Speaker 1: my world. Like when I went to school, everything was

454
00:25:02,325 --> 00:25:08,405
Speaker 1: just mumbo jumbo, and I remember just thinking I feel odd,

455
00:25:08,605 --> 00:25:10,965
Speaker 1: like I feel all the time, and it's how got

456
00:25:10,965 --> 00:25:13,885
Speaker 1: beamed in. And then as soon as my mum said

457
00:25:13,885 --> 00:25:17,245
Speaker 1: to me we're moving to Australia, it was like lightning

458
00:25:17,365 --> 00:25:20,285
Speaker 1: struck my head. I was like, oh my god, everything's

459
00:25:20,325 --> 00:25:22,765
Speaker 1: gonna make sense, everythings gonna be fine. Like it was

460
00:25:22,805 --> 00:25:26,005
Speaker 1: like a no. I always describe it as a knowing, right,

461
00:25:26,725 --> 00:25:29,685
Speaker 1: not an inkling, but like I knew. And then when

462
00:25:29,765 --> 00:25:33,365
Speaker 1: we landed, and I'm sorry if you've read or heard this,

463
00:25:33,445 --> 00:25:36,325
Speaker 1: but I always talk about how when we were just

464
00:25:36,405 --> 00:25:39,645
Speaker 1: traveling back to my uncle's house, I remember just I

465
00:25:39,685 --> 00:25:43,005
Speaker 1: felt like Alice in Wonderland. I remember even finding all

466
00:25:43,045 --> 00:25:47,845
Speaker 1: the street signs really beautiful, right. I was just enamored

467
00:25:47,925 --> 00:25:54,285
Speaker 1: with Australia immediately, in giness, the sparsness, those wide Adelaide roads, yeah,

468
00:25:54,605 --> 00:25:57,325
Speaker 1: compared to where you'd come from, which I imagine had

469
00:25:57,365 --> 00:26:01,405
Speaker 1: some density and yeah yeah, and that sort of. I

470
00:26:01,725 --> 00:26:04,365
Speaker 1: used to always find the humidity really.

471
00:26:06,165 --> 00:26:06,725
Speaker 2: Oppressive.

472
00:26:06,805 --> 00:26:10,725
Speaker 1: Oppressive, yeah, And I remember just loving like the dry

473
00:26:11,005 --> 00:26:11,805
Speaker 1: heat and.

474
00:26:13,645 --> 00:26:14,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, so weird.

475
00:26:15,525 --> 00:26:21,565
Speaker 1: And right away, I I like, I was fine at school,

476
00:26:21,645 --> 00:26:27,005
Speaker 1: I performed really well. And did you speak English?

477
00:26:27,045 --> 00:26:30,885
Speaker 2: I did? Right, So your family spoke English? Yeah, you're right. Yeah,

478
00:26:30,925 --> 00:26:33,765
Speaker 2: So that would have made it easy. Yeah, heaps easier, Yeah,

479
00:26:33,765 --> 00:26:36,885
Speaker 2: heaps easy. But then often people like to focus on

480
00:26:36,965 --> 00:26:40,045
Speaker 2: their difference, like when they arrived, did you have a

481
00:26:40,765 --> 00:26:44,645
Speaker 2: sensation that you were not like the other ones? Yes?

482
00:26:44,925 --> 00:26:50,685
Speaker 1: I was incredibly shy, so I remember having Yeah, even

483
00:26:50,765 --> 00:26:55,325
Speaker 1: though I felt at home in Australia, still had that feeling,

484
00:26:55,445 --> 00:26:58,685
Speaker 1: but not in a way that felt dark. It was

485
00:26:58,845 --> 00:27:03,165
Speaker 1: like it was like I don't know how to explain it,

486
00:27:03,205 --> 00:27:07,845
Speaker 1: because all these kids just rallied around me and protected me.

487
00:27:07,965 --> 00:27:11,325
Speaker 1: It was so beautiful, like my experience coming to Australia

488
00:27:11,485 --> 00:27:17,405
Speaker 1: was beautiful. It was like textbook perfect. But I would

489
00:27:17,445 --> 00:27:19,805
Speaker 1: look at them they were my friends, but I would

490
00:27:19,805 --> 00:27:21,845
Speaker 1: look at them in all like I can never I

491
00:27:21,885 --> 00:27:24,725
Speaker 1: will never be able to be like you. Because Pip,

492
00:27:24,725 --> 00:27:27,605
Speaker 1: who was like sort of I guess, the leader of

493
00:27:27,645 --> 00:27:29,885
Speaker 1: the gang that I was in, she would ride to

494
00:27:29,885 --> 00:27:33,965
Speaker 1: school every morning, and I remember thinking that was amazing

495
00:27:34,005 --> 00:27:34,885
Speaker 1: because I could ride a.

496
00:27:34,805 --> 00:27:37,365
Speaker 2: Bike and just would you have been allowed to ride

497
00:27:37,365 --> 00:27:37,645
Speaker 2: a bike?

498
00:27:37,885 --> 00:27:41,965
Speaker 1: Probably not? No, not to school, no no. And I

499
00:27:42,005 --> 00:27:44,485
Speaker 1: remember thinking wow, for her to have that kind of

500
00:27:44,485 --> 00:27:47,285
Speaker 1: independence at her age was just mind blowing to me.

501
00:27:48,045 --> 00:27:51,845
Speaker 1: And then just to see like I used to find

502
00:27:52,485 --> 00:27:56,925
Speaker 1: things that were very ordinary, Like I would find a

503
00:27:56,965 --> 00:27:59,525
Speaker 1: way to think I could never be that cool. Like

504
00:27:59,565 --> 00:28:01,165
Speaker 1: she would open her lunch box and it was like

505
00:28:01,165 --> 00:28:06,925
Speaker 1: one of those refrigerated ones ylation, and I'd be like, oh,

506
00:28:07,005 --> 00:28:08,885
Speaker 1: that'd be cool enough to have a lunch box that

507
00:28:08,965 --> 00:28:12,885
Speaker 1: has I have resolation? What did you take it with

508
00:28:13,045 --> 00:28:15,165
Speaker 1: munch and never be cool enough to have a vegemite

509
00:28:15,285 --> 00:28:20,365
Speaker 1: sandwich and barbecue shapes and sultanas. It's just weird because

510
00:28:20,605 --> 00:28:23,565
Speaker 1: I had fried rice and that was just like oh my.

511
00:28:23,365 --> 00:28:27,765
Speaker 2: God, yeah yeah yeah, and a smell yeah, and it

512
00:28:27,805 --> 00:28:28,965
Speaker 2: was like yeah under.

513
00:28:28,805 --> 00:28:31,165
Speaker 1: The foil and eat things with a spoon. I was like,

514
00:28:31,325 --> 00:28:34,685
Speaker 1: bloody hell, I just want a sandwich. Yeah.

515
00:28:34,765 --> 00:28:40,485
Speaker 2: But at some point that became your strength. Yeah, it

516
00:28:40,605 --> 00:28:43,165
Speaker 2: took me a while. Well it does take a while.

517
00:28:43,925 --> 00:28:46,245
Speaker 2: But at what point did you Yeah, when were you

518
00:28:46,285 --> 00:28:49,965
Speaker 2: when you started to go, oh, these things that you

519
00:28:50,045 --> 00:28:54,685
Speaker 2: know to be an outlier or an observer in youth,

520
00:28:55,685 --> 00:28:59,285
Speaker 2: I think stands you in good stead as an adult. Okay,

521
00:28:59,485 --> 00:29:02,965
Speaker 2: sometimes so late, I would say.

522
00:29:02,765 --> 00:29:10,565
Speaker 1: When I was maybe nineteen or twenty, yeah, way past school,

523
00:29:10,805 --> 00:29:13,565
Speaker 1: and I think maybe going to Canada, I had a

524
00:29:13,565 --> 00:29:13,925
Speaker 1: lot to do.

525
00:29:14,845 --> 00:29:17,285
Speaker 3: Oh and what was the calling in Canada?

526
00:29:17,565 --> 00:29:21,085
Speaker 1: So I was in Utah, right, oh, China to the

527
00:29:21,085 --> 00:29:24,805
Speaker 1: Mormon find a husband, no joke, thinking maybe I might

528
00:29:24,845 --> 00:29:25,605
Speaker 1: find a husband.

529
00:29:25,725 --> 00:29:26,885
Speaker 2: When did you become a Mormon?

530
00:29:26,965 --> 00:29:30,285
Speaker 1: Then when I was sixteen? No, fifteen, fifteen, sixteen, yeah,

531
00:29:30,325 --> 00:29:30,725
Speaker 1: around then.

532
00:29:31,045 --> 00:29:32,365
Speaker 2: What religion were your parents?

533
00:29:33,245 --> 00:29:35,725
Speaker 1: We were sort of cultural Buddhists. I say culture Buddhist,

534
00:29:35,725 --> 00:29:38,125
Speaker 1: as in they didn't go to the temple. Auntie is

535
00:29:38,325 --> 00:29:42,365
Speaker 1: very staunch Buddhist, so I've been raised with that around

536
00:29:42,405 --> 00:29:47,405
Speaker 1: all the time. But also I find Chinese Malaysians are

537
00:29:47,485 --> 00:29:51,285
Speaker 1: quite sort of superstitious, so they'll you know, have hedged

538
00:29:51,285 --> 00:29:52,325
Speaker 1: their bets and have like.

539
00:29:53,765 --> 00:29:55,645
Speaker 2: A myriad of gods at their.

540
00:29:55,845 --> 00:29:58,165
Speaker 3: Yeah yees, covering their bases.

541
00:29:58,205 --> 00:30:03,845
Speaker 1: So like sure, good academic, right, you know, performance for

542
00:30:05,205 --> 00:30:07,845
Speaker 1: wealth and prosperity, all that kind of stuff, But it's

543
00:30:07,965 --> 00:30:11,645
Speaker 1: more for that rather and it's like a fear rather

544
00:30:11,685 --> 00:30:13,125
Speaker 1: than a philosophy.

545
00:30:12,645 --> 00:30:16,125
Speaker 2: You know me, so transactional, yeah yeah, yeah, bit of that.

546
00:30:16,565 --> 00:30:20,005
Speaker 1: And so that's how I got raised. So I wouldn't

547
00:30:20,045 --> 00:30:23,845
Speaker 1: say we were philosophically entrenched in like the teachings of Buddha,

548
00:30:23,925 --> 00:30:25,565
Speaker 1: but we were Buddhist most And.

549
00:30:25,525 --> 00:30:28,005
Speaker 2: Then how did them how did the Mormons find you?

550
00:30:28,485 --> 00:30:33,805
Speaker 1: So we got into some financial issues because my parents

551
00:30:33,805 --> 00:30:35,405
Speaker 1: had some businesses.

552
00:30:35,685 --> 00:30:40,325
Speaker 2: And we were in the doll drums and they came knocking.

553
00:30:40,565 --> 00:30:45,685
Speaker 2: Oh and who answered the door Me and mum and

554
00:30:45,765 --> 00:30:52,685
Speaker 2: invited the mean yeah wow yeah to clean cut, cute boys. Yeah.

555
00:30:52,685 --> 00:30:56,245
Speaker 2: Why they was American because they're doing their missionary service.

556
00:30:56,405 --> 00:30:59,285
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Australias would go somewhere else as well. You

557
00:30:59,325 --> 00:31:02,285
Speaker 1: don't always you can, you sometimes get called within your country,

558
00:31:02,605 --> 00:31:04,685
Speaker 1: but you just it literally gets pulled out of a hat.

559
00:31:05,085 --> 00:31:08,845
Speaker 1: Well through prayer and inspiration. Right, Yeah, that's the hat. Yeah,

560
00:31:08,845 --> 00:31:11,765
Speaker 1: that's the hat, like the sorting hat. That's the soft hat.

561
00:31:12,525 --> 00:31:15,565
Speaker 2: And so then you went started going to the church. Yes,

562
00:31:16,405 --> 00:31:18,645
Speaker 2: full on, it was full on. We commrely.

563
00:31:18,645 --> 00:31:21,405
Speaker 1: We got baptized and that was like that was us

564
00:31:21,805 --> 00:31:26,365
Speaker 1: because we lost a lot of family support during that time,

565
00:31:27,005 --> 00:31:31,885
Speaker 1: and so the church was this amazing social structure that

566
00:31:31,885 --> 00:31:33,445
Speaker 1: we got kind of helly dropped.

567
00:31:33,165 --> 00:31:34,365
Speaker 2: Into, right, and.

568
00:31:36,205 --> 00:31:37,645
Speaker 1: People were really kind to us.

569
00:31:38,125 --> 00:31:41,405
Speaker 2: They were really kind to us. Yeah, I'll never forget

570
00:31:41,445 --> 00:31:44,045
Speaker 2: that power of the church. You know when people like

571
00:31:44,165 --> 00:31:47,365
Speaker 2: to say, now religion is responsible for everything bad, all

572
00:31:47,405 --> 00:31:49,645
Speaker 2: the wars and whatever. I think it negates to a

573
00:31:49,685 --> 00:31:53,565
Speaker 2: certain extent, the sense of community that can come from

574
00:31:53,605 --> 00:31:54,085
Speaker 2: a church.

575
00:31:54,245 --> 00:31:55,725
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally.

576
00:31:56,005 --> 00:31:57,165
Speaker 2: It's so weird religion.

577
00:31:57,325 --> 00:32:00,005
Speaker 1: Like the more I stand back now and I'm more

578
00:32:00,045 --> 00:32:03,165
Speaker 1: relaxed about it because I'm not fighting it because I'm

579
00:32:03,165 --> 00:32:06,965
Speaker 1: not in one, the more reasonable I am about it

580
00:32:07,005 --> 00:32:09,485
Speaker 1: in my head, and I think with a bit of

581
00:32:09,525 --> 00:32:11,765
Speaker 1: age as well, like you just everything just tends to

582
00:32:11,805 --> 00:32:13,525
Speaker 1: even out a bit more and you're less volatile on

583
00:32:13,565 --> 00:32:17,205
Speaker 1: your opinions. Because I feel like religion, even though I

584
00:32:17,285 --> 00:32:19,645
Speaker 1: resented it coming out of it and when I was

585
00:32:19,725 --> 00:32:23,205
Speaker 1: in it, because what happened was there was a cycle

586
00:32:23,245 --> 00:32:23,965
Speaker 1: of I loved it.

587
00:32:23,965 --> 00:32:24,765
Speaker 2: It was amazing.

588
00:32:25,165 --> 00:32:28,805
Speaker 1: But then what happened was my brain after going to

589
00:32:28,925 --> 00:32:34,605
Speaker 1: Canada and hanging out like my first bestie was trans

590
00:32:34,885 --> 00:32:35,165
Speaker 1: you know.

591
00:32:35,165 --> 00:32:40,285
Speaker 2: It literally blew my world apart, like so forbidden in

592
00:32:40,325 --> 00:32:40,805
Speaker 2: the church.

593
00:32:41,085 --> 00:32:43,205
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I'd never had that kind of freedom before

594
00:32:43,245 --> 00:32:45,845
Speaker 1: because I'd lived at home before I went overseas.

595
00:32:45,805 --> 00:32:46,165
Speaker 2: So to.

596
00:32:48,565 --> 00:32:55,005
Speaker 1: Be in an environment where there was just so so

597
00:32:55,165 --> 00:32:59,805
Speaker 1: much gray as opposed to black and white, which is religion, right,

598
00:33:00,725 --> 00:33:05,245
Speaker 1: I just it completely flipped my brain. And then I

599
00:33:05,285 --> 00:33:08,005
Speaker 1: went home and then I met Matt and Matt was

600
00:33:08,125 --> 00:33:15,565
Speaker 1: just this incredible, doably intelligent, articulate, little sort of rebel

601
00:33:15,725 --> 00:33:18,445
Speaker 1: at church and I and we were really good friends

602
00:33:18,485 --> 00:33:22,045
Speaker 1: at first because we found solace, intellectual solace.

603
00:33:23,245 --> 00:33:23,885
Speaker 2: With each other.

604
00:33:24,285 --> 00:33:26,085
Speaker 1: So we used to just sit up and like, you know,

605
00:33:26,205 --> 00:33:29,085
Speaker 1: do you really reveal things? I watched David Attenborough because

606
00:33:29,125 --> 00:33:33,445
Speaker 1: these are dull is that rebellion? Well not really, I'm

607
00:33:33,485 --> 00:33:36,525
Speaker 1: just joking, but like, well, we don't believe in duwinn

608
00:33:36,525 --> 00:33:38,285
Speaker 1: In theory, so because it's.

609
00:33:38,285 --> 00:33:42,285
Speaker 2: Of course it's like the Witnesses creation, yeah, creation, yeah, yeah.

610
00:33:42,125 --> 00:33:46,485
Speaker 1: Yeah, so all that kind of stuff. Like we just

611
00:33:46,605 --> 00:33:49,525
Speaker 1: explored sort of a world outside of the church. And

612
00:33:49,565 --> 00:33:55,285
Speaker 1: then ultimately when we got married, we chose to say

613
00:33:55,365 --> 00:33:57,405
Speaker 1: to our family, we're not getting married in the temple

614
00:33:57,845 --> 00:34:01,085
Speaker 1: where we're just going to get normal guarden righting, and

615
00:34:01,165 --> 00:34:03,245
Speaker 1: left the church. But yeah, we had to sort of

616
00:34:03,285 --> 00:34:06,765
Speaker 1: really coach each other out of that situation because it's

617
00:34:06,805 --> 00:34:08,805
Speaker 1: a lot, you know how it is, it's such a

618
00:34:08,845 --> 00:34:10,205
Speaker 1: stronghold on you, but.

619
00:34:10,285 --> 00:34:12,285
Speaker 2: Also you have to get to the point where it's

620
00:34:12,325 --> 00:34:15,205
Speaker 2: harder to stay, yes than it is to leave.

621
00:34:15,285 --> 00:34:18,605
Speaker 1: Absolutely, what was your breaking point and when did you leave?

622
00:34:18,725 --> 00:34:21,285
Speaker 2: I think I always knew yeah. I always knew growing

623
00:34:21,365 --> 00:34:23,445
Speaker 2: up when you were talking about that sensation of not

624
00:34:23,525 --> 00:34:27,125
Speaker 2: feeling like you feeling like an alien, yeah, kind of

625
00:34:27,125 --> 00:34:29,925
Speaker 2: looking at people. I knew that I wasn't a good

626
00:34:29,965 --> 00:34:33,365
Speaker 2: Jehovah's witness and the ironies. I used to pray to

627
00:34:33,485 --> 00:34:37,525
Speaker 2: Jehovah to make me a good Jehovah's witness. Yeah, because

628
00:34:37,525 --> 00:34:41,925
Speaker 2: I knew that I wasn't. Yeah, he didn't. Wow, he didn't.

629
00:34:42,045 --> 00:34:43,565
Speaker 1: He didn't ask your prayer.

630
00:34:43,725 --> 00:34:47,845
Speaker 2: No, I didn't, didn't answer my prayer, didn't.

631
00:34:47,965 --> 00:34:50,005
Speaker 1: It's the evidence right there.

632
00:34:50,045 --> 00:34:52,285
Speaker 2: Well, you would think God, not that you think of

633
00:34:52,325 --> 00:34:52,885
Speaker 2: it like that.

634
00:34:52,925 --> 00:34:55,445
Speaker 3: At that time, I was like, oh okay, now I'm

635
00:34:55,445 --> 00:34:56,285
Speaker 3: gonna have to leave.

636
00:34:56,565 --> 00:34:59,525
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. But then so you were with Matt and

637
00:34:59,565 --> 00:35:02,605
Speaker 2: then this is the bit that is that most people

638
00:35:02,685 --> 00:35:07,925
Speaker 2: cannot comprehend that when you broke up with Match, he

639
00:35:08,045 --> 00:35:12,805
Speaker 2: ended up with bestie Sarah. Yeah right, yeah, okay, which

640
00:35:12,805 --> 00:35:15,645
Speaker 2: is a story that I know you must have. You

641
00:35:15,765 --> 00:35:17,925
Speaker 2: must have to tell this all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

642
00:35:17,965 --> 00:35:21,605
Speaker 2: but it is extraordinary. No, no one minds it. But

643
00:35:21,685 --> 00:35:24,445
Speaker 2: what we can't believe is that you don't mind it. Yeah.

644
00:35:24,525 --> 00:35:27,565
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like the thing that like it's not

645
00:35:27,605 --> 00:35:30,605
Speaker 1: as amazing as you'd think. I don't think, because we

646
00:35:30,645 --> 00:35:33,645
Speaker 1: were we don't have any children, right number one, That

647
00:35:33,685 --> 00:35:37,765
Speaker 1: definitely helps. Yeah, b makes things less, you know, erotic

648
00:35:38,085 --> 00:35:41,645
Speaker 1: right there, the tension of that, yeah yeah. And I

649
00:35:41,685 --> 00:35:46,605
Speaker 1: think also at that point we were so broken together,

650
00:35:47,085 --> 00:35:49,405
Speaker 1: like we were bringing out the worst in each other.

651
00:35:49,525 --> 00:35:54,525
Speaker 1: It just was such a dysfunctional relationship and we knew it,

652
00:35:54,565 --> 00:35:55,845
Speaker 1: but we didn't know how to get out of it,

653
00:35:55,925 --> 00:35:58,485
Speaker 1: because even though we were out of the church, there

654
00:35:58,565 --> 00:36:01,685
Speaker 1: was still that sort of familial pressure and everyone thought

655
00:36:01,685 --> 00:36:03,445
Speaker 1: we were going in the opposite direction. Everyone's like, oh,

656
00:36:03,485 --> 00:36:05,285
Speaker 1: we go have babies, and we're like, we going me

657
00:36:05,365 --> 00:36:10,965
Speaker 1: all the way. So I think the reason why I

658
00:36:11,125 --> 00:36:14,005
Speaker 1: was kind of the one that made the first move.

659
00:36:14,285 --> 00:36:17,085
Speaker 1: I was just painting one day in front of the

660
00:36:17,365 --> 00:36:19,605
Speaker 1: and I was standing in front of the easel and

661
00:36:19,645 --> 00:36:22,405
Speaker 1: it just came to me clear as a bell. It

662
00:36:22,445 --> 00:36:24,805
Speaker 1: was like, you need to do it right now. And

663
00:36:24,885 --> 00:36:27,645
Speaker 1: I literally legged it to the birth death marriages and

664
00:36:27,645 --> 00:36:31,405
Speaker 1: got a divorced kid and then served it to him.

665
00:36:32,125 --> 00:36:36,805
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, with dinner with really badly cooked meat in

666
00:36:36,845 --> 00:36:39,605
Speaker 1: three no, no, yeah, and.

667
00:36:40,485 --> 00:36:42,525
Speaker 2: Live was a relief for both of you.

668
00:36:42,565 --> 00:36:46,965
Speaker 1: No, Matt was I don't know what it is with guys.

669
00:36:47,005 --> 00:36:49,925
Speaker 1: I felt like he was blindsided. I was so bad

670
00:36:50,285 --> 00:36:54,085
Speaker 1: in the caves, yes, where men thought we were fine

671
00:36:54,245 --> 00:36:56,365
Speaker 1: and we were like, have you not heard I've been

672
00:36:56,365 --> 00:37:02,005
Speaker 1: desperately Yeah. Yeah, I think the male propensity to sweep

673
00:37:02,005 --> 00:37:05,005
Speaker 1: things under the rug is very high like that that

674
00:37:05,525 --> 00:37:08,005
Speaker 1: this threshold is quite high. So anyway, he was still

675
00:37:08,085 --> 00:37:15,405
Speaker 1: quite blindsided. But I think when he him and Sarah

676
00:37:15,445 --> 00:37:19,925
Speaker 1: started to when they were together, I I was like,

677
00:37:20,005 --> 00:37:23,485
Speaker 1: if I choose to be angry with this, it's like

678
00:37:24,045 --> 00:37:28,325
Speaker 1: I'm going backwards because I'm the one that initiated this.

679
00:37:28,565 --> 00:37:32,525
Speaker 1: I'm the one that is saying I don't want this anymore.

680
00:37:32,765 --> 00:37:35,405
Speaker 1: And it was because I felt like I was turning

681
00:37:35,405 --> 00:37:36,765
Speaker 1: into something that I wasn't.

682
00:37:36,805 --> 00:37:39,285
Speaker 2: I was such a ball of rage.

683
00:37:39,805 --> 00:37:43,885
Speaker 1: Anything could set me off, right, Yeah, angry poet, Oh

684
00:37:43,925 --> 00:37:47,165
Speaker 1: my god. I was like throwing chairs and smashing chairs

685
00:37:47,165 --> 00:37:50,445
Speaker 1: on the ground. I was psycho. Yeah, and I was like,

686
00:37:50,525 --> 00:37:53,365
Speaker 1: this is not good. No, that's not good.

687
00:37:53,485 --> 00:37:55,885
Speaker 2: That is not me. Also hard to imagine. Yeah.

688
00:37:55,885 --> 00:37:59,045
Speaker 1: People always say that there is.

689
00:38:03,925 --> 00:38:06,685
Speaker 2: You seemed and yang.

690
00:38:07,645 --> 00:38:10,725
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there's a very intense site to me personality. Yeah,

691
00:38:10,765 --> 00:38:13,605
Speaker 1: because I think when you're creative.

692
00:38:13,205 --> 00:38:16,085
Speaker 2: There has to be I do, Yeah, I do.

693
00:38:16,325 --> 00:38:18,285
Speaker 1: There has to be an intensity because for you to

694
00:38:19,245 --> 00:38:21,725
Speaker 1: you have to be self driven, your you know, your

695
00:38:21,765 --> 00:38:24,525
Speaker 1: standards have to you have to create your own bars

696
00:38:24,525 --> 00:38:28,845
Speaker 1: of measure. So like I think within that there has

697
00:38:28,965 --> 00:38:31,725
Speaker 1: to be I don't know, people call it passion, but

698
00:38:31,805 --> 00:38:38,645
Speaker 1: there is so much new neuroticism and I don't know, obsessiveness.

699
00:38:38,685 --> 00:38:40,725
Speaker 2: You know, you have to have those things and you

700
00:38:40,845 --> 00:38:47,085
Speaker 2: need a launching place for your art to catapult from. Yeah.

701
00:38:47,165 --> 00:38:50,885
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think running away from something, whether it's

702
00:38:50,885 --> 00:38:53,245
Speaker 1: from within, is a great inspiration.

703
00:38:54,325 --> 00:38:57,765
Speaker 2: Well do you think, Yeah, it's all about demons and

704
00:38:57,845 --> 00:39:01,965
Speaker 2: work avoidance and sometimes the work is yourself, yes, and

705
00:39:02,005 --> 00:39:05,805
Speaker 2: that you can find it yeah yeah yeah yeah clean house,

706
00:39:05,885 --> 00:39:08,165
Speaker 2: in the in the in the in the streets, yeah yeah,

707
00:39:08,205 --> 00:39:08,925
Speaker 2: all that all that.

708
00:39:09,365 --> 00:39:12,845
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

709
00:39:13,285 --> 00:39:16,485
Speaker 2: After this short break, we talk about our shared love

710
00:39:16,605 --> 00:39:21,445
Speaker 2: for the late great Cal Wilson. Plus I surprised Poe

711
00:39:21,845 --> 00:39:25,645
Speaker 2: with a message from her Master Chift co star Julie Goodwin,

712
00:39:26,085 --> 00:39:33,405
Speaker 2: don't go anywhere. So then you decided to? So yeah,

713
00:39:33,405 --> 00:39:34,245
Speaker 2: I was cool with it.

714
00:39:34,325 --> 00:39:37,165
Speaker 1: Like it was. It was really fast the turnover, because

715
00:39:37,205 --> 00:39:40,685
Speaker 1: I think we were already in that friendship stage, even

716
00:39:40,725 --> 00:39:44,045
Speaker 1: though we didn't want to deny. So the transition was way.

717
00:39:44,725 --> 00:39:47,245
Speaker 1: It sounds so much more dramatic than it really was.

718
00:39:47,325 --> 00:39:50,205
Speaker 1: I was still pissed, like I'm not gonna deny that,

719
00:39:50,965 --> 00:39:53,925
Speaker 1: but I knew I was gonna. I knew that for

720
00:39:54,045 --> 00:39:56,405
Speaker 1: me to hold on to it, it was such a

721
00:39:56,565 --> 00:39:59,485
Speaker 1: vivid it was like a picture in my brain. I

722
00:39:59,525 --> 00:40:02,645
Speaker 1: was like a picture of me holding onto the garbage.

723
00:40:02,485 --> 00:40:05,085
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, let the garbage go. Let

724
00:40:05,085 --> 00:40:05,565
Speaker 2: the garbage.

725
00:40:05,565 --> 00:40:10,805
Speaker 1: No, I shouldn't call Matte garbage. He's like, probably one

726
00:40:10,845 --> 00:40:11,925
Speaker 1: of the most precious people.

727
00:40:11,725 --> 00:40:12,125
Speaker 2: In my life.

728
00:40:12,125 --> 00:40:13,525
Speaker 3: But those feelings are garbage.

729
00:40:13,565 --> 00:40:16,005
Speaker 1: The feelings are garbage, and what I was turning into

730
00:40:16,125 --> 00:40:18,925
Speaker 1: was garbage. So I was like I would be going

731
00:40:18,925 --> 00:40:21,685
Speaker 1: in reverse. So I was like, I have to find

732
00:40:21,685 --> 00:40:24,525
Speaker 1: a way to accept this. And it wasn't even that hard.

733
00:40:24,685 --> 00:40:27,125
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, this is not that hard.

734
00:40:28,045 --> 00:40:31,285
Speaker 2: The once you let it go, yeah, everything kind of

735
00:40:31,285 --> 00:40:33,245
Speaker 2: found an ease to it. Yeah.

736
00:40:33,525 --> 00:40:38,405
Speaker 1: I think it was just I felt like this release

737
00:40:39,245 --> 00:40:43,085
Speaker 1: and everything fell into place. It was so but even

738
00:40:43,125 --> 00:40:46,365
Speaker 1: the way that we broke up met what Matt was

739
00:40:46,365 --> 00:40:49,245
Speaker 1: a real gentleman about it, Like he left me a

740
00:40:49,245 --> 00:40:50,005
Speaker 1: lot of stuff.

741
00:40:50,005 --> 00:40:51,805
Speaker 2: He left me zed our dog.

742
00:40:53,245 --> 00:40:55,885
Speaker 1: And the funny, the thing that most people find even weirder,

743
00:40:56,005 --> 00:40:59,685
Speaker 1: is that he moved across the street, okay, and Sarah

744
00:40:59,725 --> 00:41:01,645
Speaker 1: lived around the corner from me, so we lived in

745
00:41:01,685 --> 00:41:04,565
Speaker 1: this little triangle and we just sort of it was

746
00:41:04,605 --> 00:41:05,525
Speaker 1: funny because we.

747
00:41:05,405 --> 00:41:08,765
Speaker 2: Were aware of that it was unusual. It was unusual.

748
00:41:08,885 --> 00:41:11,045
Speaker 1: And he says, is it weird if I move and

749
00:41:11,365 --> 00:41:13,125
Speaker 1: across the street, And I actually said I would love

750
00:41:13,125 --> 00:41:15,885
Speaker 1: it if you did, because I feel like us completely

751
00:41:15,925 --> 00:41:19,045
Speaker 1: separating after living in each other's pockets is so unhealthy.

752
00:41:20,285 --> 00:41:24,925
Speaker 1: I actually think it's okay, and we kind of nursed

753
00:41:24,965 --> 00:41:26,725
Speaker 1: each other through the breakup.

754
00:41:27,325 --> 00:41:30,365
Speaker 2: It is interesting because often you think that he's a

755
00:41:30,405 --> 00:41:33,605
Speaker 2: person in a relationship that you've loved and that's meant

756
00:41:33,685 --> 00:41:35,445
Speaker 2: more to you than anyone, and then when.

757
00:41:35,245 --> 00:41:37,325
Speaker 3: You say for the relationship, they're just gone.

758
00:41:37,725 --> 00:41:38,725
Speaker 1: How can that be?

759
00:41:39,085 --> 00:41:42,805
Speaker 2: It is? I always had associated it with a level

760
00:41:42,845 --> 00:41:47,525
Speaker 2: of passion. Yeah, that if you felt so passionate about

761
00:41:47,565 --> 00:41:51,365
Speaker 2: the person, you couldn't be here to see them. So

762
00:41:51,485 --> 00:41:54,805
Speaker 2: maybe if you didn't have that passion and you'd outgrown it, yeah,

763
00:41:55,005 --> 00:41:57,125
Speaker 2: it makes it easier. But then maybe it's also just

764
00:41:57,165 --> 00:42:00,445
Speaker 2: a great philosophy to have. Yeah, I don't know, I

765
00:42:00,485 --> 00:42:01,845
Speaker 2: don't know what it is, but.

766
00:42:02,005 --> 00:42:04,765
Speaker 1: It was like as soon it was almost like, as

767
00:42:04,765 --> 00:42:08,685
Speaker 1: sooner as I was willing to do the deed, which

768
00:42:08,765 --> 00:42:15,205
Speaker 1: was get divorced, my whole body and mind, everything clicked

769
00:42:15,645 --> 00:42:18,805
Speaker 1: and it was like okay, it was like really easy.

770
00:42:19,525 --> 00:42:22,325
Speaker 2: And then did everything else open up to you? Because

771
00:42:22,685 --> 00:42:25,805
Speaker 2: from that point on you've been stratospheric?

772
00:42:26,325 --> 00:42:27,165
Speaker 1: Yeah?

773
00:42:27,165 --> 00:42:28,485
Speaker 2: I did that interesting.

774
00:42:28,565 --> 00:42:32,685
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had an amazing exhibition afterwards. And then Sarah

775
00:42:32,725 --> 00:42:35,725
Speaker 1: was the one that said to me, hey, I think

776
00:42:35,725 --> 00:42:37,005
Speaker 1: you should apply for this thing.

777
00:42:37,525 --> 00:42:37,805
Speaker 2: Wow.

778
00:42:37,925 --> 00:42:40,085
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember it was on my little knocker.

779
00:42:40,205 --> 00:42:42,725
Speaker 2: Oh really knock the brick.

780
00:42:44,245 --> 00:42:46,845
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was like, what is this and she goes,

781
00:42:46,965 --> 00:42:49,325
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's so weird. Po I don't even

782
00:42:49,445 --> 00:42:53,685
Speaker 1: really know, she said. But all I know is these

783
00:42:53,725 --> 00:42:56,045
Speaker 1: words are so chilling to me still to this day,

784
00:42:56,445 --> 00:43:00,165
Speaker 1: because the choice of words is so unusual. She said,

785
00:43:00,605 --> 00:43:02,685
Speaker 1: I don't know really what it is, but I think

786
00:43:02,725 --> 00:43:05,365
Speaker 1: you'll be great at it, and I think you're going

787
00:43:05,445 --> 00:43:07,005
Speaker 1: to be there till the end.

788
00:43:07,365 --> 00:43:07,525
Speaker 2: Oh.

789
00:43:07,805 --> 00:43:08,965
Speaker 1: She didn't say you're gonna win it.

790
00:43:09,405 --> 00:43:09,565
Speaker 2: Ah.

791
00:43:09,925 --> 00:43:11,445
Speaker 1: I was there to here there.

792
00:43:12,285 --> 00:43:12,525
Speaker 4: Yeah.

793
00:43:12,925 --> 00:43:15,445
Speaker 2: And then it was the start of everything. The end

794
00:43:15,645 --> 00:43:18,525
Speaker 2: was the start of it there and it's how we

795
00:43:18,605 --> 00:43:21,485
Speaker 2: know you. Yeah, And the other thing I was going

796
00:43:21,565 --> 00:43:27,445
Speaker 2: to say about your migrant parents is the affirmation of

797
00:43:27,725 --> 00:43:31,565
Speaker 2: who you were and the acceptance and how the viewers

798
00:43:31,645 --> 00:43:34,845
Speaker 2: just went, we love this woman to have for them

799
00:43:34,885 --> 00:43:38,405
Speaker 2: to have their fledging little Poe, their little strange cuckoo,

800
00:43:38,725 --> 00:43:41,525
Speaker 2: the cuckoo in the knees, to see her being so

801
00:43:41,685 --> 00:43:46,005
Speaker 2: widely loved in this land that they had chosen, How

802
00:43:46,125 --> 00:43:47,365
Speaker 2: beautiful that is.

803
00:43:47,725 --> 00:43:49,365
Speaker 1: Well, I was kind of on my way to talking

804
00:43:49,405 --> 00:43:51,445
Speaker 1: about that and I got lost, because we love a

805
00:43:51,525 --> 00:43:56,005
Speaker 1: chat we do. That was that it was so impactful

806
00:43:56,005 --> 00:43:59,445
Speaker 1: for me. I was thirty five at that point, so

807
00:43:59,605 --> 00:44:05,645
Speaker 1: like a grown woman, and it's still it did so

808
00:44:05,845 --> 00:44:09,885
Speaker 1: much for me, for my fam, for me relationship with

809
00:44:09,925 --> 00:44:12,765
Speaker 1: my family, because they finally went, oh, her wild and

810
00:44:12,765 --> 00:44:15,925
Speaker 1: willy ways have panned out. She is going to be okay.

811
00:44:16,445 --> 00:44:19,245
Speaker 1: And after that, my parents just left me alone because

812
00:44:19,245 --> 00:44:20,685
Speaker 1: they've always been a little bit like what are you

813
00:44:20,725 --> 00:44:23,605
Speaker 1: to do with this? You know, you know, just always

814
00:44:23,685 --> 00:44:27,765
Speaker 1: nagging you need money about yeah, like you know, getting

815
00:44:27,805 --> 00:44:31,165
Speaker 1: more stable. But I'd always managed to hustle, like I'm

816
00:44:31,165 --> 00:44:33,125
Speaker 1: not afraid of hard work. So they've always known I

817
00:44:33,125 --> 00:44:37,845
Speaker 1: would be okay, but you know, one failed relationship, you know,

818
00:44:38,165 --> 00:44:40,885
Speaker 1: and being on my own and you know, being a

819
00:44:40,885 --> 00:44:43,165
Speaker 1: bit traditional, They're like, you know, I guess hoping that

820
00:44:43,205 --> 00:44:45,165
Speaker 1: I'll find someone else and all that kind of stuff.

821
00:44:45,205 --> 00:44:47,925
Speaker 2: Did they want a grand child? Did they put that

822
00:44:47,965 --> 00:44:49,045
Speaker 2: pressure on you?

823
00:44:49,285 --> 00:44:50,645
Speaker 1: Mum mentioned it quite a bit.

824
00:44:50,885 --> 00:44:51,645
Speaker 2: Dad never.

825
00:44:53,245 --> 00:44:55,405
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she really wanted one. But my brother

826
00:44:55,445 --> 00:44:55,765
Speaker 1: had four.

827
00:44:55,845 --> 00:44:58,565
Speaker 2: So you made up for everyone, Thank you, brother, I

828
00:44:58,645 --> 00:45:03,845
Speaker 2: didn't you? Yes, Yes, someone has to just just for

829
00:45:03,965 --> 00:45:05,925
Speaker 2: quiet in your family. Yeah.

830
00:45:06,365 --> 00:45:09,965
Speaker 1: So like for me, I think I've all always had

831
00:45:10,325 --> 00:45:15,125
Speaker 1: such a sort of creative, sort of chaotic way of

832
00:45:15,165 --> 00:45:21,285
Speaker 1: approaching life. It was so affirming for me to be

833
00:45:21,405 --> 00:45:28,445
Speaker 1: this in an environment where my brain type excelled because

834
00:45:28,605 --> 00:45:33,085
Speaker 1: it compresses the chaos, compresses into clarity. When I'm in

835
00:45:33,125 --> 00:45:39,365
Speaker 1: that sort of slightly highly charged panic situation, pressure makes diamonds. Yeah.

836
00:45:39,445 --> 00:45:44,005
Speaker 1: So I found that environment really exhilarating, and it made

837
00:45:44,045 --> 00:45:47,765
Speaker 1: me realize that all these things that I'd fought about

838
00:45:47,805 --> 00:45:55,485
Speaker 1: myself and fought or had kind of resisted about yourself,

839
00:45:56,005 --> 00:45:58,405
Speaker 1: Why am I like this? Why am I so disorganized?

840
00:45:58,445 --> 00:46:00,645
Speaker 1: Or why am I always this this and this. I

841
00:46:00,685 --> 00:46:02,845
Speaker 1: was like, oh wow, there is a place for it,

842
00:46:03,485 --> 00:46:08,005
Speaker 1: and it made me understand that it's it's also what

843
00:46:09,165 --> 00:46:13,005
Speaker 1: makes me creative. Yeah, so it was. Yeah, it did

844
00:46:13,085 --> 00:46:16,125
Speaker 1: so many things for me, like for my self esteem.

845
00:46:16,525 --> 00:46:20,045
Speaker 2: Would you like to know what the winner, who was

846
00:46:20,085 --> 00:46:24,365
Speaker 2: there till the end with you, thought of you, Julie. Yeah,

847
00:46:24,605 --> 00:46:25,365
Speaker 2: have a listen to this.

848
00:46:26,805 --> 00:46:29,205
Speaker 4: I'm so glad that I got to go through Master

849
00:46:29,285 --> 00:46:32,805
Speaker 4: Chef with Poe and be at the end standing next

850
00:46:32,805 --> 00:46:36,685
Speaker 4: to her. It's hard to describe, actually what a generous

851
00:46:37,045 --> 00:46:40,605
Speaker 4: spirit of a human being she is. I just love

852
00:46:40,605 --> 00:46:42,405
Speaker 4: her to death and I have ever since I met her.

853
00:46:42,485 --> 00:46:49,485
Speaker 4: She's hilariously funny, she's quirky and unique, she's insanely creative

854
00:46:49,805 --> 00:46:51,285
Speaker 4: and just a.

855
00:46:51,085 --> 00:46:54,605
Speaker 2: Gorgeous, gorgeous human being. I trust her, I love her.

856
00:46:54,645 --> 00:46:58,085
Speaker 4: She's my friend. And yeah, thank you for asking me

857
00:46:58,125 --> 00:46:59,325
Speaker 4: to say a few words about her.

858
00:46:59,525 --> 00:46:59,845
Speaker 2: Cheers.

859
00:47:00,205 --> 00:47:08,325
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, jus, but oh my god, Poe's all

860
00:47:08,405 --> 00:47:10,365
Speaker 5: those things extraordinary.

861
00:47:10,525 --> 00:47:11,765
Speaker 1: She's so creative.

862
00:47:11,925 --> 00:47:14,885
Speaker 2: Sometimes I think you don't get a sense of how

863
00:47:14,885 --> 00:47:18,325
Speaker 2: the world sees you, because of course you're looking at

864
00:47:18,325 --> 00:47:21,245
Speaker 2: the world through the prism of your own eyes. That

865
00:47:21,405 --> 00:47:24,885
Speaker 2: is how the world sees you and I also we

866
00:47:25,045 --> 00:47:30,125
Speaker 2: had a very dear joint friend we do, Cal Wilson. Yeah,

867
00:47:31,165 --> 00:47:34,485
Speaker 2: and you met Cal. I love the concept of people

868
00:47:34,525 --> 00:47:38,405
Speaker 2: who are open to new friendships throughout their life. You know,

869
00:47:38,485 --> 00:47:40,365
Speaker 2: some people go, well, this is my posse and this

870
00:47:40,485 --> 00:47:41,765
Speaker 2: is You're not that person.

871
00:47:42,085 --> 00:47:43,925
Speaker 1: No, I'm always adding.

872
00:47:44,125 --> 00:47:47,565
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you met Cal in the jungle. Yeah, she

873
00:47:47,725 --> 00:47:51,285
Speaker 2: was my bunkie and you became such a significant person

874
00:47:51,605 --> 00:47:52,485
Speaker 2: in her life.

875
00:47:52,805 --> 00:47:55,925
Speaker 1: I don't even actually know think I knew that, which

876
00:47:56,005 --> 00:48:01,005
Speaker 1: is so sad in a way, like I never dared

877
00:48:01,045 --> 00:48:03,165
Speaker 1: to think that, you know, because I yeah, because of

878
00:48:03,205 --> 00:48:07,965
Speaker 1: that thing where she's so established and but I adored her.

879
00:48:08,165 --> 00:48:11,685
Speaker 2: But Cow was the same. Cal was a quirky like

880
00:48:11,845 --> 00:48:14,245
Speaker 2: Cal also spend a lot of her time, I think,

881
00:48:14,285 --> 00:48:19,125
Speaker 2: feeling like she didn't really fit, and then when she

882
00:48:19,245 --> 00:48:23,765
Speaker 2: met you, it was like you rose to meet each other. Yeah.

883
00:48:23,805 --> 00:48:26,485
Speaker 1: She was my little piece of solace in the jungle.

884
00:48:26,525 --> 00:48:28,045
Speaker 1: As soon as I saw her walking and I was like,

885
00:48:28,085 --> 00:48:30,045
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is going to be okay, you know,

886
00:48:30,245 --> 00:48:32,285
Speaker 1: because you've done it and you're I.

887
00:48:32,245 --> 00:48:34,085
Speaker 2: Haven't done the jungle. Oh you haven't. Oh no, I

888
00:48:34,125 --> 00:48:37,565
Speaker 2: haven't done I'd never do the jungle. Look, you might

889
00:48:37,685 --> 00:48:45,365
Speaker 2: like to eat testicles, but you know that's not for

890
00:48:45,445 --> 00:48:46,045
Speaker 2: me yet.

891
00:48:47,045 --> 00:48:50,525
Speaker 1: Okay, so when you get in there, you do you do? Yeah,

892
00:48:50,565 --> 00:48:52,525
Speaker 1: you do sort of put your radar out. And like

893
00:48:52,565 --> 00:48:54,285
Speaker 1: as soon as I saw her, and you're I was

894
00:48:54,325 --> 00:48:57,085
Speaker 1: going to be fine, and yeah, she's I think we

895
00:48:57,165 --> 00:49:01,525
Speaker 1: actually got closer outside of it in a way because

896
00:49:01,525 --> 00:49:03,325
Speaker 1: you know, you miked up and all that kind of stuff.

897
00:49:03,765 --> 00:49:04,925
Speaker 2: But yeah, what a.

898
00:49:06,565 --> 00:49:14,165
Speaker 1: Divine human. And I say, I don't use the word divine.

899
00:49:14,645 --> 00:49:18,085
Speaker 1: I'm not just throwing that out there. I say divine

900
00:49:18,205 --> 00:49:23,805
Speaker 1: because she's literally godly in her ability to love and

901
00:49:23,925 --> 00:49:32,085
Speaker 1: give like infinitely, you know. At her memorial, it was

902
00:49:32,125 --> 00:49:34,885
Speaker 1: so funny because I was really I wanted to talk

903
00:49:34,925 --> 00:49:39,605
Speaker 1: about how she's such a little pebbler, like, you know,

904
00:49:39,645 --> 00:49:44,205
Speaker 1: she'd always give, you know, give you little gifts. And

905
00:49:44,245 --> 00:49:47,165
Speaker 1: when she passed away, and she was very crafty, very crafty,

906
00:49:47,765 --> 00:49:51,445
Speaker 1: I didn't realize, but at every corner of my house

907
00:49:51,485 --> 00:49:56,005
Speaker 1: there's a little cow thing she's given me. And it's

908
00:49:56,045 --> 00:49:58,245
Speaker 1: so strange because I'd only known her for a couple

909
00:49:58,245 --> 00:50:00,645
Speaker 1: of years at that point, and I was like, how

910
00:50:00,685 --> 00:50:03,285
Speaker 1: she managed to infiltrate my entire house even though I've

911
00:50:03,325 --> 00:50:07,325
Speaker 1: only seen her like a handful of times essentially, and

912
00:50:07,365 --> 00:50:10,805
Speaker 1: we were really close. So at the memorial, I wanted

913
00:50:10,845 --> 00:50:13,085
Speaker 1: to talk about that, and I was like, I don't

914
00:50:13,125 --> 00:50:16,085
Speaker 1: want to brag that she's given me so many presents.

915
00:50:17,085 --> 00:50:20,845
Speaker 1: Everyone about it and I was like, yeah, it's okay.

916
00:50:21,085 --> 00:50:23,525
Speaker 1: But then also, oh my god, how did she have

917
00:50:23,605 --> 00:50:28,925
Speaker 1: this capacity to love everyone so hard and thoroughly and

918
00:50:29,005 --> 00:50:32,725
Speaker 1: make space so much space for people and proper space,

919
00:50:32,885 --> 00:50:34,645
Speaker 1: like thoughtful.

920
00:50:35,525 --> 00:50:38,165
Speaker 2: Where you know, Like, but I think you have the

921
00:50:38,205 --> 00:50:41,245
Speaker 2: same capacity. Okay, thank you. I think you do.

922
00:50:41,485 --> 00:50:42,125
Speaker 1: It's so kind.

923
00:50:42,245 --> 00:50:45,165
Speaker 2: I think that's what people respond to about you is

924
00:50:45,205 --> 00:50:48,485
Speaker 2: there's a certain openness. And I think a lot of

925
00:50:48,485 --> 00:50:51,845
Speaker 2: people as you travel through life with its slings and

926
00:50:51,965 --> 00:50:54,565
Speaker 2: arrows and the pains, and as my mother says, in

927
00:50:54,605 --> 00:50:57,005
Speaker 2: a classic mother way, the longer you live, the more

928
00:50:57,125 --> 00:50:59,965
Speaker 2: bad things are going to happen to you. It's true,

929
00:51:00,325 --> 00:51:03,925
Speaker 2: but it is true, it's true. How do you retain

930
00:51:04,405 --> 00:51:10,125
Speaker 2: this openness to the world, the soft under belly.

931
00:51:10,525 --> 00:51:14,525
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm always like that. And I think I've

932
00:51:14,525 --> 00:51:16,645
Speaker 1: always been like that since I was a kid, even

933
00:51:16,685 --> 00:51:18,725
Speaker 1: though I was shy. I think I've always been very

934
00:51:19,325 --> 00:51:22,405
Speaker 1: I think curiosity. That is the main word that comes

935
00:51:22,405 --> 00:51:26,285
Speaker 1: to my mind. I'm curious about how I can feel more,

936
00:51:26,645 --> 00:51:30,405
Speaker 1: what experiences I can put myself into. I'm very greedy

937
00:51:30,605 --> 00:51:33,045
Speaker 1: for because i think a lot of people think that,

938
00:51:33,245 --> 00:51:36,005
Speaker 1: you know, I've landed in this position of you know,

939
00:51:36,205 --> 00:51:38,765
Speaker 1: working in the media because I'm greedy for attention, but

940
00:51:39,285 --> 00:51:41,645
Speaker 1: I'm really not. I mean a lot. I really love

941
00:51:42,325 --> 00:51:45,525
Speaker 1: being acknowledged and recognized for things that I think I'm

942
00:51:45,725 --> 00:51:47,965
Speaker 1: decent at that I've worked very hard at, you know,

943
00:51:48,165 --> 00:51:53,205
Speaker 1: being okay at. But it's more that my greed for

944
00:51:53,765 --> 00:51:55,125
Speaker 1: life experiences.

945
00:51:55,805 --> 00:51:58,325
Speaker 2: But how are you not how does that not get

946
00:51:58,365 --> 00:52:00,885
Speaker 2: replaced with fear, you know, because a lot of people

947
00:52:00,925 --> 00:52:04,485
Speaker 2: are held back by the fear of failure or the

948
00:52:04,485 --> 00:52:07,245
Speaker 2: fear of success. Yeah, I love.

949
00:52:09,565 --> 00:52:14,005
Speaker 1: I love new feelings, like experiencing new kinds of feelings,

950
00:52:14,045 --> 00:52:15,005
Speaker 1: Like I'm so curious.

951
00:52:15,085 --> 00:52:16,765
Speaker 2: Like even when I was going through.

952
00:52:16,525 --> 00:52:19,485
Speaker 1: Grief, and I think it's the age, it hit me

953
00:52:19,525 --> 00:52:22,085
Speaker 1: at a really good age. And also being on my

954
00:52:22,285 --> 00:52:24,645
Speaker 1: own was great as well, to be able to process

955
00:52:24,685 --> 00:52:27,885
Speaker 1: grief on my own because I was just so hyper

956
00:52:28,005 --> 00:52:32,125
Speaker 1: aware of all these privileges that I had, Like, wow,

957
00:52:32,285 --> 00:52:34,725
Speaker 1: I can process this without a husband and children, So

958
00:52:34,765 --> 00:52:38,205
Speaker 1: I can completely immerse myself in this without having to.

959
00:52:38,125 --> 00:52:39,605
Speaker 2: Look after any worry of that.

960
00:52:39,765 --> 00:52:44,045
Speaker 1: Yeah, the luxury of that, and really deep dive into

961
00:52:44,085 --> 00:52:46,405
Speaker 1: it and within it. I was still able to find

962
00:52:46,645 --> 00:52:50,645
Speaker 1: so many, so much beauty in the sorrow, like I

963
00:52:50,725 --> 00:52:53,845
Speaker 1: really could. And I think it's because I'm always searching

964
00:52:53,925 --> 00:52:59,965
Speaker 1: for it. I'm not afraid of feeling so like, you know,

965
00:53:00,845 --> 00:53:04,965
Speaker 1: fear all the whole gamut. I love it. I love

966
00:53:05,325 --> 00:53:07,165
Speaker 1: because it's what it is to be human. So if

967
00:53:07,205 --> 00:53:08,565
Speaker 1: you're not going to feel, what the hell are you

968
00:53:08,605 --> 00:53:09,325
Speaker 1: going to do? Right?

969
00:53:09,885 --> 00:53:18,685
Speaker 2: I think? Yeah, I love you.

970
00:53:18,885 --> 00:53:22,085
Speaker 1: I love you too, and I you know, I've it's

971
00:53:22,165 --> 00:53:25,805
Speaker 1: been embarrassing because because we've met properly through another dear

972
00:53:25,845 --> 00:53:26,245
Speaker 1: friend of.

973
00:53:28,005 --> 00:53:31,525
Speaker 2: The other Kate, the other Kate Sebrann, and my son

974
00:53:31,645 --> 00:53:32,965
Speaker 2: is going out with her daughter.

975
00:53:33,325 --> 00:53:39,165
Speaker 1: And I've actually spent some time with who's absolutely gorgeous

976
00:53:39,205 --> 00:53:48,125
Speaker 1: and so your son, do you think, yeah, ah, that's interesting, Yeah, but.

977
00:53:46,565 --> 00:53:47,125
Speaker 2: But yeah it was.

978
00:53:47,765 --> 00:53:51,165
Speaker 1: I've secretly always wanted to be your friend, So that

979
00:53:51,325 --> 00:53:54,205
Speaker 1: was really it was so lovely to meet you that day.

980
00:53:54,365 --> 00:53:56,005
Speaker 1: And we had such a fun day, didn't we.

981
00:53:56,165 --> 00:53:57,085
Speaker 2: Oh, it was the greatest.

982
00:53:57,165 --> 00:54:06,125
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so spontaneous.

983
00:54:02,125 --> 00:54:05,325
Speaker 2: So Poe and I kept up the jibber jabber long

984
00:54:05,405 --> 00:54:09,805
Speaker 2: after we had stopped recording. And who is one of

985
00:54:09,845 --> 00:54:14,125
Speaker 2: those people that you could talk to anywhere, anytime, for

986
00:54:14,285 --> 00:54:16,965
Speaker 2: any amount of time. There's so much that we didn't

987
00:54:17,005 --> 00:54:19,885
Speaker 2: get up to. By the way, I believe her to

988
00:54:19,925 --> 00:54:23,365
Speaker 2: be much more Buddhist than she thinks she is if

989
00:54:23,405 --> 00:54:25,845
Speaker 2: you listen to the tale of what she's learnt about

990
00:54:25,925 --> 00:54:28,925
Speaker 2: loss and life. And we didn't get onto her love

991
00:54:28,965 --> 00:54:31,645
Speaker 2: of bees, and we didn't get onto how she makes

992
00:54:31,645 --> 00:54:35,365
Speaker 2: his amazing jam tarts. I mean, there's so much. Poe

993
00:54:35,405 --> 00:54:37,805
Speaker 2: is currently one of the judges on Master Chef. You

994
00:54:37,845 --> 00:54:40,405
Speaker 2: can watch the series Monday to Wednesday at seven thirty

995
00:54:40,405 --> 00:54:43,805
Speaker 2: pm on ten and ten Play. The executive producer of

996
00:54:43,845 --> 00:54:48,085
Speaker 2: No Filter is Nama Brown. The senior producer is Grace Ruvret.

997
00:54:48,765 --> 00:54:51,925
Speaker 2: Audio production is by Jacob Brown and I'm your host,

998
00:54:52,205 --> 00:54:55,885
Speaker 2: Kate lane Brook. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening.