Speaker 1: You're listening to a mom and me a podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: Hey out Louders, It's me, Jesse, Holly and I got
Speaker 1: together recently to record a special interview for another podcast
Speaker 1: that we have here at Mamma Mia called That's Incredible.
Speaker 1: That's like a co listening podcast for parents and kids,
Speaker 1: and the episode was all about creativity, what our creative
Speaker 1: process was like, how we harness creativity, where we get
Speaker 1: our ideas from, and how we deal with creative burnout,
Speaker 1: which has been a big thing for me lately. It
Speaker 1: was such an interesting chat if I do say to myself,
Speaker 1: we thought we'd share it with you, so enjoy.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to a very special episode of That's Incredible.
Speaker 2: It's all about creativity, and we've got some different hosts today.
Speaker 2: There's me, I'm Holly Wayne Right, I'm Mea Friedman, and
Speaker 2: I'm Jesse Stevens. And we're usually the hosts of Mama
Speaker 2: Are Out Loud, but that's not all we do. We're
Speaker 2: also authors, novelist, journalists, in the case of my talented
Speaker 2: friends here, screenwriters and TV producers. So In short, we've
Speaker 2: all made careers, some of us in some cases quite
Speaker 2: long careers. Now Mia out of creativity, and it's also
Speaker 2: at the core of what we like to do, and
Speaker 2: we're not working. Mia it's a big fan of what
Speaker 2: she calls creative rest. It might be playing with clothes
Speaker 2: for me, I might be growing colorful things. We are
Speaker 2: definitely creative people. Although Jesse is not creative in the kitchen.
Speaker 2: That's a conversation. It's another time.
Speaker 3: The thing is apparently girls often think that they don't
Speaker 3: have permission to be creative. I remember sensing this a
Speaker 3: bit in adolescence. I reckon it disappeared for a season,
Speaker 3: and apparently that's actually proven.
Speaker 4: That is something that happens.
Speaker 1: Is that because it's seen as something for childhood that
Speaker 1: you leave behind.
Speaker 3: I think it's also about playing risk, Like I wonder
Speaker 3: if we become risk averse.
Speaker 1: Fear of being judged. Because Elizabeth Gilbert I think said,
Speaker 1: when a man puts a work of creative work into
Speaker 1: the world, people debate the work. When a woman puts
Speaker 1: a work of creativity out into the world, they debate
Speaker 1: whether she's worthy of putting anything out at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember being in high school, and I love
Speaker 3: public speaking.
Speaker 4: It was my favorite thing.
Speaker 3: I did a speech in front of the school and
Speaker 3: I was so proud of myself, and I remember the
Speaker 3: overwhelming response from other girls was like, who.
Speaker 4: Does she think she is?
Speaker 3: To her, it was very very that And it's this
Speaker 3: idea that you kind of have to put it away,
Speaker 3: or that imagination, as you say, mayor it's a little
Speaker 3: bit for childhood. And that's such a loss, because teenage
Speaker 3: girls are really really creative.
Speaker 1: Yes smart.
Speaker 2: So we wanted to talk to you and maybe your
Speaker 2: daughters as well today about why that's just not true
Speaker 2: and give a bit of insight into creativity and times
Speaker 2: in our life when we've been more or less creative.
Speaker 2: I want to know about you me, who is one
Speaker 2: of the most creative people that I know, in almost
Speaker 2: all areas of your life, If you have always always
Speaker 2: been like that?
Speaker 1: Yes, So it's taken lots of different forms my creativity.
Speaker 1: I've always had a big imagination. But my earliest memory
Speaker 1: of it was my mum got a call when I
Speaker 1: was at preschool, so I would have been about two
Speaker 1: or three. She got a call from my preschool saying
Speaker 1: we're a bit worried we just need to talk to
Speaker 1: you because it's the middle of winter and Maya keeps
Speaker 1: coming to school and then she disappears in the middle
Speaker 1: of the day and she's just wearing like a little
Speaker 1: dress and it's freezing outside. And we've realized that she's
Speaker 1: actually bringing spare changes of clothes to Kindy in her
Speaker 1: little Kindy bag and getting changed throughout the day, and
Speaker 1: it's not always seasonally appropriate. So I had to have
Speaker 1: these Kindy bag inspections before I went to Kindy.
Speaker 2: You pull out all that we should do them.
Speaker 3: We should do them when you walk into the office.
Speaker 3: You came in today with a suitcase, and we said,
Speaker 3: allus case, what was in a suitcase?
Speaker 1: As you know, if you've been to them on mere office,
Speaker 1: you'll know that I've got a rack in my office
Speaker 1: and I will often get changed during the day. I'm
Speaker 1: having a really early dinner with girlfriends tonight, but I've
Speaker 1: got to make sure that I've got enough time to
Speaker 1: go home and put on another outfit, just because you
Speaker 1: know anyway, so that I've always used clothes as a
Speaker 1: form of creative expression, right, and there have been times
Speaker 1: in my life when I haven't, And there've been times
Speaker 1: when i've that's reflective of a really bad headspack.
Speaker 2: Were you one of those kids, because I know I was,
Speaker 2: and I don't know if you were, Jesse who I
Speaker 2: always played imaginary games when I was a kid. I
Speaker 2: always had like narratives going in my head and play
Speaker 2: a lot of imaginary games. So I'd be off in
Speaker 2: the corner playing and it would be my own invented world.
Speaker 2: And I think that that was a sign for me
Speaker 2: when I was young that I loved disappearing into that
Speaker 2: and I'd just be off in a corner chattering to myself,
Speaker 2: but I was in my own world. I'll do it
Speaker 2: with cloth. Yeah, that's another point of which sometimes that
Speaker 2: gets knocked out of you because it's a bit of
Speaker 2: a weird thing to do. Let's be honest, right, And
Speaker 2: there's a point of which someone in your family or
Speaker 2: your friends would be like, why is holy talking.
Speaker 1: To myself in like clone pretend? And then I guess.
Speaker 2: As soon as I was a bit older and I
Speaker 2: realized I could write those worlds down, I would fill
Speaker 2: notebooks with stories and stories that included my friends. I
Speaker 2: used to write these kind of like serialized stories that
Speaker 2: had me and my friends do in these crazy things,
Speaker 2: and so I think that it probably was in me
Speaker 2: from a young age. But what I'd love to ask you, Jesse,
Speaker 2: is I wonder if this sometimes when you're a kid,
Speaker 2: we're kind of told you're either creative or your sort
Speaker 2: of book smart, a bit scientific, a bit massy, and
Speaker 2: you kind of have to pick right, you have to
Speaker 2: pick a lane. I'm definitely the stereotypical. I was good
Speaker 2: at English and writing and books, and I wasn't good
Speaker 2: at science and maths and things. But Jesse is our
Speaker 2: resident book smart person. I know me is about to
Speaker 2: say I was good at maths too. Just hold it me,
Speaker 2: as although I did.
Speaker 1: Well in maths, I.
Speaker 2: Want to go to Jesse and say, did you ever
Speaker 2: feel that pressure to choose? And were you always like
Speaker 2: a jewel Lain person.
Speaker 3: I can remember being in year three and I was really,
Speaker 3: really really shy kid and I barely spoke, and I
Speaker 3: cried whenever I stood in front of the class. And
Speaker 3: I remember the teacher, I remember her name, and I
Speaker 3: remember her recognizing creativity in me and fostering it, and
Speaker 3: that changed everything.
Speaker 2: How did she do that?
Speaker 3: So I would write store fictional stories of things for
Speaker 3: other teachers. I would write the stories and I was
Speaker 3: a terrible speller, and they would just circle the bad spelling,
Speaker 3: and then I would get disheartened. And she didn't care
Speaker 3: about the spelling. She just thought that it was great
Speaker 3: that I was writing stories. And then she encouraged me.
Speaker 3: I remember there was like a plaything and she actually
Speaker 3: gave me a role or whatever and got me to
Speaker 3: do I have this weird memory. I don't know why
Speaker 3: it's stuck. You know those things you're like, is this significant?
Speaker 3: She was reading a story to the class. It was
Speaker 3: a description in a book and it was saying that
Speaker 3: there were so many flies that the indigenous person in
Speaker 3: the book was closing their eyes so that the flies
Speaker 3: didn't get in. And as she was reading, she looked
Speaker 3: at me and I was trying to do it like
Speaker 3: close my eyes. She could clearly see that I understood imagery,
Speaker 3: and like there was.
Speaker 1: A real wow because she were empathetic with the story
Speaker 1: the character.
Speaker 4: I must have been really little when that happened.
Speaker 3: I find that my journey since has been about trying
Speaker 3: to get back to five because the way it was
Speaker 3: beaten out of me. I feel like with essays and stuff,
Speaker 3: perfectionism meant I wanted to get really good marks. You
Speaker 3: felt like you had to write the same way, and
Speaker 3: you put the creativity to the side, and then the
Speaker 3: inner critic gets so so loud that the creativity is
Speaker 3: totally stifled.
Speaker 4: I feel like all of it is.
Speaker 3: I sit down sometimes during writing my fiction book and
Speaker 3: I would go, I wish I was five and I
Speaker 3: could just sit there on my little I had a
Speaker 3: little desk and a little stool and a pen, well
Speaker 3: a pensilks didn't have a pen license, and I would
Speaker 3: write stories.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you guys talk about writing a lot,
Speaker 1: like you know, I loved poetry in English and everything,
Speaker 1: but creativity for me hasn't been something that has required skill.
Speaker 1: Like one of my fondest memories and what I used
Speaker 1: to love doing was cutting things out of magazines to
Speaker 1: decorate my school diaries and stuff, and decorating my folders
Speaker 1: and my locker and my bedroom, you know, putting posters.
Speaker 1: I still to this day love to blue tack things
Speaker 1: up and play with my personal space, whether it's my
Speaker 1: bedroom or my office or my wardrobe. I like rearranging
Speaker 1: what I can see. To me, that's a form.
Speaker 2: Of pace, and you're definitely like a sort of three
Speaker 2: sixty creative in that way, right, You're always looking at
Speaker 2: the way things look and wanting to change them and
Speaker 2: thinking of new ways to do things. Because one of
Speaker 2: the things about creativity is it's not just about obviously
Speaker 2: creating art. Whether that's oh, you want to be a
Speaker 2: writer or you want to be a painter or whatever.
Speaker 2: Creative thinking is probably becoming more and more important all
Speaker 2: the time because the machines are not yet as good
Speaker 2: at that as we are. They may become that if
Speaker 2: we don't foster creativity in kids. I'm not in a
Speaker 2: prescriptive way, but don't encourage them to think big picture
Speaker 2: and live in their imagination for a while and think, well,
Speaker 2: what would make this better? How could this be solved?
Speaker 2: What is a different way of saying this. If we
Speaker 2: don't do that, then you lose something very important that
Speaker 2: isn't really about writing stories or painting pictures.
Speaker 3: And you know what else we lose is the flow skate.
Speaker 3: So you might remember being a kid and whole afternoons
Speaker 3: disappeared and we would play imagine getting dressed up and
Speaker 3: Claire and I would play a game.
Speaker 1: But I used to make up dances.
Speaker 4: Yes, of course you did.
Speaker 3: And the way that time because you are so involved
Speaker 3: in something and you are this incredible focus that doesn't
Speaker 3: feel like focus because it's so re energizing, that state
Speaker 3: of flow when you are playing.
Speaker 1: But I was also very lonely because there were no screens.
Speaker 1: I had my brother were.
Speaker 2: Lonely because there were no screens. Yes, yes, I had.
Speaker 1: I couldn't text my children.
Speaker 2: Listening to this put your fingers in your ears were
Speaker 2: all screens.
Speaker 1: I was lonely because there were no screens. No, but
Speaker 1: there was no option. So I think one of the
Speaker 1: things that Foster's creativity is bored them. Yes, and I'm
Speaker 1: never bored now really, But then I was bored all
Speaker 1: the time because there was nothing on television, there was
Speaker 1: no streaming, there was no internet. I had no siblings,
Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of friends. So I would
Speaker 1: make up dancers and I would, you know, I would
Speaker 1: be forced to be creative. I was never imaginative in
Speaker 1: the way that you two were, And to this day,
Speaker 1: I'm not like I'm or of anyone that can write
Speaker 1: fiction because I don't ever make up stories in my head.
Speaker 1: I like the real world, but I like physically expressing myself,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's doing a dance or dressing myself for.
Speaker 2: In a minute, we're going to come back, and I
Speaker 2: want to know from Jesse and Meher and I'll be
Speaker 2: taking notes about how they keep themselves creative when there's
Speaker 2: so much pressure these days to do a million other things.
Speaker 2: All right, I need to hear about your hacks because
Speaker 2: I write books. We all do lots of things, and
Speaker 2: we've all written books. But I am in the middle
Speaker 2: of writing my fifth novel, and I have to say
Speaker 2: my creative process has been heart this time. Right, I've
Speaker 2: had a bit of writer's block. I found it hard
Speaker 2: to get him flow. There are a million things distracting me.
Speaker 2: I've got a million thoughts in my head. I want
Speaker 2: to know if there have been times in your life
Speaker 2: when you've had a bit of a block me and
Speaker 2: how you've managed to unblock it.
Speaker 4: You've talked to Baud anxiety being a block for you.
Speaker 1: I've got an image of a toilet plunger when I
Speaker 1: had a really bad anxiety attack that went for like
Speaker 1: almost two weeks, and I was diagnosed and everything. I
Speaker 1: was really worried that I wouldn't be able to write anymore. Ironically,
Speaker 1: when I was writing, it was the only time I
Speaker 1: wasn't anxious because that state of concentration and flow that
Speaker 1: I will get into if I was writing and you know,
Speaker 1: this is writing articles for Mamma Mia, I don't write fiction.
Speaker 1: It helped my anxiety.
Speaker 3: So is that creative rest? You know how you recently
Speaker 3: brought up that term. I wonder if for you that
Speaker 3: was almost respite.
Speaker 1: It was just a distraction, really, and so now my
Speaker 1: creative rest. I were two hats at MMA MAYA half
Speaker 1: of me is the co founder of the business, and
Speaker 1: then half of me is making content like podcasts with
Speaker 1: you guys and writing and social and stuff. The making
Speaker 1: of the stuff is the stuff I love, and that's probably,
Speaker 1: I don't know, thirty percent of my job, maybe forty percent,
Speaker 1: always trying to get it to be more, and the
Speaker 1: other part of my job really drains me because it
Speaker 1: is the opposite of being creative. I mean, sometimes you
Speaker 1: can have creative solutions to problems, and it's creative for
Speaker 1: me having ideas that I don't necessarily have to execute.
Speaker 1: But for me, creativity doesn't also have to be creative.
Speaker 1: Rest can come from doing a puzzle while I'm listening
Speaker 1: to an audiobook, or going for a walk while I'm
Speaker 1: listening to a podcast, or rearranging my wardrobe, or walking
Speaker 1: around a shopping center and looking at clothes. Someone else
Speaker 1: has said, it's also about regulating emotionally, regulating For me,
Speaker 1: creativity regulates me emotionally, and I need it to sort
Speaker 1: of function it and even keel if that makes sense,
Speaker 1: if you ever.
Speaker 2: Struggle to deal creativity, Jesse, because you certainly from the
Speaker 2: outside seem like an incredibly prolific producer of things, of
Speaker 2: creative projects.
Speaker 3: I think you can produce a project without having any creativity,
Speaker 3: and that's the saddest thing you can create, because it's
Speaker 3: really it costs you a lot. And the thing that
Speaker 3: gets in the way of creativity more than anything else,
Speaker 3: it is your worst nightmare that you have to let
Speaker 3: go of, is perfectionism.
Speaker 4: And may you taught me that?
Speaker 2: And girls do suffer from that more than boys statistically, right,
Speaker 2: So it's another reason why maybe little girls stop playing
Speaker 2: and building and inventing things, is they're like, but it's
Speaker 2: not good.
Speaker 4: It's not good, enfet.
Speaker 2: It's not as good as the one that I've seen
Speaker 2: on social or the one that that influence is making,
Speaker 2: or the one my brother's making, or so I'm just
Speaker 2: going to not do it. So how do you overcome that?
Speaker 3: And I remember it kicking in in adolescence. It was
Speaker 3: like I would handwrite these stories or I I loved drawing,
Speaker 3: I loved painting. And then I remember something happened one
Speaker 3: day where I would like start writing on a page
Speaker 3: and then I'd be like, my handwriting isn't neat enough.
Speaker 3: I need to redo that, like and it would and
Speaker 3: it was awful. It's like you can't get into that
Speaker 3: state of psych reda batars, Yeah, exactly. So I have
Speaker 3: found a few things help. I think handwriting is really good.
Speaker 3: And I'm not just talking about writing. I'm talking about anything.
Speaker 3: If you feel like you creatively need to get something
Speaker 3: out a pencil and paper or pen and paper.
Speaker 1: It's right like that.
Speaker 4: Oh, so it's so freeing.
Speaker 3: I think going for a walk or being in a
Speaker 3: certain space with absolutely no input, and by that I
Speaker 3: mean spend time in your head. I think we're talking
Speaker 3: about this when we're away. We were snorkeling, and I
Speaker 3: love snorkeling, and I love swimming because there's nothing else
Speaker 3: and it's like my brain. When my mind wanders, it
Speaker 3: goes to such interesting places, and I miss that from childhood.
Speaker 3: You don't let your brain do that if it's just input, input, input, So.
Speaker 2: True, Can I ask you just a little bit back
Speaker 2: on the critic, because if we think that maybe some
Speaker 2: little girls and girls are stopping being creative because they're
Speaker 2: worried about what people are going to say to them. Yea,
Speaker 2: as you've said, Jesse, when you were at school, though,
Speaker 2: like who do you think you are? Or whatever? Have
Speaker 2: you learned anything that's useful about how to not care
Speaker 2: quite so much about that and still be true to
Speaker 2: what you want to.
Speaker 3: Do a few things. I think done is better than perfect.
Speaker 3: You can't edit or rearrange something that you haven't started.
Speaker 3: You've got to just put something down. Sometimes creativity can
Speaker 3: be just for you. It's not a performance. It's not
Speaker 3: for other people to judge. And you can draw something,
Speaker 3: or you can make something and go the best feeling.
Speaker 3: And I, as we say, we've all written books. I
Speaker 3: can tell you can write a book and you can
Speaker 3: get a great review or sell x many copies. There
Speaker 3: is nothing like the feeling of feeling proud of something
Speaker 3: you have created. There's nothing else that's going to make
Speaker 3: you the teacher giving your yeah. And in fact, it's
Speaker 3: in the doing. It's like in the doing of something.
Speaker 3: So the thing that's helped me the most has been
Speaker 3: playing with my now nine month old, so watching her,
Speaker 3: and it's at the moment the developmental stage is putting
Speaker 3: ball in roundhole, right, So I just show her how
Speaker 3: to do it, and then she doesn't do it and
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, the ball goes in there.
Speaker 4: But then I'm like, no, no, No. The thing is
Speaker 4: the playing.
Speaker 3: The thing is that she picks the ball up to
Speaker 3: eat it and then she throws it at the dog,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, it's.
Speaker 4: The journey, not the destination.
Speaker 3: I love sitting on the floor with her and playing
Speaker 3: with toys.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 1: Watching her exploring.
Speaker 2: Yes, Mia, what's the best advice you've ever been given
Speaker 2: about not caring about what other people think?
Speaker 1: It's that thing of dance, like no one's watching, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had a lovely time going to a like an
Speaker 1: all female disco club recently, which that felt really creative,
Speaker 1: like everyone's got disco for grenups, yeah, and everyone was
Speaker 1: just dancing and it was just fun because no one felt,
Speaker 1: oh my being judged. Like, as women and as girls,
Speaker 1: we learn very quickly when we're girls to be watching
Speaker 1: ourselves from the outside and judging ourselves before someone else
Speaker 1: judges us. And I'm watching at the moment my daughter,
Speaker 1: who is very creative, and you'll go from thing to things.
Speaker 1: So she was like sea glass, hunting for ages and
Speaker 1: collecting sea glass. Now she's just started painting, and I'm
Speaker 1: so envious because she's just having a go. She's just like,
Speaker 1: got these canvases and she's just doing all these kinds
Speaker 1: of things, and I'm just like, wow, I would feel
Speaker 1: too vulnerable to put something on canvas. I'm very into
Speaker 1: low stakes creativity, like baking something, making a cake, rearranging
Speaker 1: some pillows on my couch, moving some furniture around, Like
Speaker 1: I really like those little light touch bits of creativity.
Speaker 3: Holly, how have you with a daughter who is going
Speaker 3: into adolescence. How do you make sure that she doesn't
Speaker 3: let that critic steal creativity from her?
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things I talked to her about
Speaker 2: a lot, because I think it's there's a point that
Speaker 2: girls go through, as you just said me away, suddenly
Speaker 2: they feel very visible and everybody's looking and judging, and
Speaker 2: sometimes it can be a bit sad for moms and dads,
Speaker 2: I guess, to see their little creative swirling around girls.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of girls will be literally dancing
Speaker 2: like nobody's watching, playing with their friends, scrapping, not caring
Speaker 2: about stuff, dancing around, creating plays, doing all those things,
Speaker 2: and then suddenly it's like closed down. No oh no,
Speaker 2: it's not cool. It's not and it can be a
Speaker 2: bit heartbreaking even to watch it. We make sure that
Speaker 2: in our house it's very clearly explicitly a silly space, right,
Speaker 2: a great word. In our house, you can be as
Speaker 2: silly and goofy and uncool as you want. You can
Speaker 2: try out ideas that you might not want to say
Speaker 2: out loud anywhere else. Nobody's judging you for whatever. Of
Speaker 2: course that isn't truth. The siblings judge each other all
Speaker 2: the time. But in theory you can try out anything
Speaker 2: you want. What's hard. I think it's really interesting what
Speaker 2: you say, Jesse, because what I see about my daughter,
Speaker 2: who I don't think she thinks is herself as very
Speaker 2: creative anymore, but I know it's in there, and she's
Speaker 2: been writing stories for school she's at high school now
Speaker 2: and she is a bit pas paralyzed by that, like
Speaker 2: it's not perfect, be embarrassed if I had to read
Speaker 2: this out in front of people. So I think all
Speaker 2: of that stuff about reinforcing this is just for you.
Speaker 2: And as you said me, I just have a go
Speaker 2: Like that is just so important because once you lose
Speaker 2: touch with that part of yourself and you lose confidence
Speaker 2: in it, it's hard to reconnect to it sometimes and
Speaker 2: if and adults find that too, So it's really important
Speaker 2: to almost create a safe space for yourself to be
Speaker 2: this is where I get to be.
Speaker 1: Keep the stakes low, yeah, you know, and silencing that
Speaker 1: in a critic takes work.
Speaker 4: I think I had something from Michelle Obama once.
Speaker 3: I think it was her who said, like, the rest
Speaker 3: of the world for the rest of your life is.
Speaker 4: Going to tell you're an idiot.
Speaker 3: In your home is where there's just unconditional love and
Speaker 3: unconditional support for everything that you do. And I really
Speaker 3: liked that idea. And I also wish that at that
Speaker 3: adolescent stage someone had told me that creativity is messiness.
Speaker 3: That's actually what it is, and you might not seek
Speaker 3: someone else's creativity and go Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 4: I could never do that.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: Creativity is mess working through stages, and it is always imperfect,
Speaker 3: and the spelling errors a part of it, and the
Speaker 3: color that turned wrong on the canvas is part of it.
Speaker 2: And I think for parents listening to this, it's very hard.
Speaker 2: I find it very hard, and probably because a large
Speaker 2: part of my professional life has been correcting other people's
Speaker 2: mistakes as an editor. You know, when my daughter does
Speaker 2: get me to read her school story, I find it
Speaker 2: very hard to resist the red penage, right, which is
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, And you have to walk a
Speaker 2: line between obviously we want them to do well, but
Speaker 2: also just addressing the content in its purest form. Like
Speaker 2: if the first thing my daughter hears when I pick
Speaker 2: up a piece of paper something she's written, is like
Speaker 2: you've spelt that wrong. Immediately her shoulders go down, her
Speaker 2: head goes like you said.
Speaker 1: With the teacher that circled the spelling STU.
Speaker 2: So it came about the spelling and not the idea
Speaker 2: we need to be And it's very hard because you know,
Speaker 2: parenting is competitive now. Schools are very demanding now. But
Speaker 2: you've also got a police You're in a policeman a bit.
Speaker 1: I think I have a Lego question for you both.
Speaker 1: When you were kids, I still like to build things
Speaker 1: with Lego. Now we buy those kids and do it
Speaker 1: as a family project. But did you like using the
Speaker 1: bricks to just build your own creations or did you
Speaker 1: like following the instructions to build a specific thing? Jesse, Yes,
Speaker 1: you like to build your own theme.
Speaker 3: No, because I needed to do it perfectly, and I
Speaker 3: wish that I hadn't like, I wish that I had
Speaker 3: let myself do more play with it, but instead.
Speaker 2: I'd like to build my own thing.
Speaker 1: Of course you did.
Speaker 2: My son loves to build a model like exactly how
Speaker 2: it is. I like to follow instructions and I always
Speaker 2: say take it apart and try and make something else
Speaker 2: from it, and he's like, no, it's perfect. Well yeah,
Speaker 2: but you could make it better.
Speaker 1: I only ever want to follow directions. I find it
Speaker 1: really intimidating that idea. I wonder if I'm scared of
Speaker 1: being judged. I don't know. You say you love beg
Speaker 1: on the floor playing. I found that one of the
Speaker 1: whole had as parts of parenting.
Speaker 2: I hated it.
Speaker 3: You also had three kids, and I'm in the early stage.
Speaker 1: No, no, only one at a time. But I never
Speaker 1: liked it, even from the beginning. I just didn't like
Speaker 1: And when it's like tell me a story, I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: can I read you a story? I don't know if
Speaker 1: I just don't trust my imagination. But there's so many
Speaker 1: different ways of being creative.
Speaker 4: Yes, like my.
Speaker 1: Son's super creative. He makes creative breakfasts. Yeah like that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is very handy.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I think we've all learned a lot about
Speaker 2: creativity and I've got some acts. Thank you out louders
Speaker 2: for listening to this special episode of That's Incredible all
Speaker 2: about creativity. We hope it's been helpful to you and
Speaker 2: maybe your daughter if they're listening with you, to harness
Speaker 2: their creativity too. Thank you for joining us, and thank
Speaker 2: you the Lego. Goodbye,