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Speaker 1: You're listening to a mom and me a podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: Hey out Louders, It's me, Jesse, Holly and I got

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Speaker 1: together recently to record a special interview for another podcast

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Speaker 1: that we have here at Mamma Mia called That's Incredible.

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Speaker 1: That's like a co listening podcast for parents and kids,

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Speaker 1: and the episode was all about creativity, what our creative

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Speaker 1: process was like, how we harness creativity, where we get

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Speaker 1: our ideas from, and how we deal with creative burnout,

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Speaker 1: which has been a big thing for me lately. It

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Speaker 1: was such an interesting chat if I do say to myself,

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Speaker 1: we thought we'd share it with you, so enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to a very special episode of That's Incredible.

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Speaker 2: It's all about creativity, and we've got some different hosts today.

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Speaker 2: There's me, I'm Holly Wayne Right, I'm Mea Friedman, and

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Speaker 2: I'm Jesse Stevens. And we're usually the hosts of Mama

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Speaker 2: Are Out Loud, but that's not all we do. We're

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Speaker 2: also authors, novelist, journalists, in the case of my talented

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Speaker 2: friends here, screenwriters and TV producers. So In short, we've

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Speaker 2: all made careers, some of us in some cases quite

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Speaker 2: long careers. Now Mia out of creativity, and it's also

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Speaker 2: at the core of what we like to do, and

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Speaker 2: we're not working. Mia it's a big fan of what

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Speaker 2: she calls creative rest. It might be playing with clothes

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Speaker 2: for me, I might be growing colorful things. We are

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Speaker 2: definitely creative people. Although Jesse is not creative in the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: That's a conversation. It's another time.

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Speaker 3: The thing is apparently girls often think that they don't

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Speaker 3: have permission to be creative. I remember sensing this a

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Speaker 3: bit in adolescence. I reckon it disappeared for a season,

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Speaker 3: and apparently that's actually proven.

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Speaker 4: That is something that happens.

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Speaker 1: Is that because it's seen as something for childhood that

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Speaker 1: you leave behind.

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Speaker 3: I think it's also about playing risk, Like I wonder

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Speaker 3: if we become risk averse.

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Speaker 1: Fear of being judged. Because Elizabeth Gilbert I think said,

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Speaker 1: when a man puts a work of creative work into

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Speaker 1: the world, people debate the work. When a woman puts

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Speaker 1: a work of creativity out into the world, they debate

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Speaker 1: whether she's worthy of putting anything out at all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember being in high school, and I love

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Speaker 3: public speaking.

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Speaker 4: It was my favorite thing.

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Speaker 3: I did a speech in front of the school and

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Speaker 3: I was so proud of myself, and I remember the

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Speaker 3: overwhelming response from other girls was like, who.

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Speaker 4: Does she think she is?

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Speaker 3: To her, it was very very that And it's this

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Speaker 3: idea that you kind of have to put it away,

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Speaker 3: or that imagination, as you say, mayor it's a little

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Speaker 3: bit for childhood. And that's such a loss, because teenage

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Speaker 3: girls are really really creative.

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Speaker 1: Yes smart.

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Speaker 2: So we wanted to talk to you and maybe your

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Speaker 2: daughters as well today about why that's just not true

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Speaker 2: and give a bit of insight into creativity and times

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Speaker 2: in our life when we've been more or less creative.

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Speaker 2: I want to know about you me, who is one

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Speaker 2: of the most creative people that I know, in almost

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Speaker 2: all areas of your life, If you have always always

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Speaker 2: been like that?

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Speaker 1: Yes, So it's taken lots of different forms my creativity.

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Speaker 1: I've always had a big imagination. But my earliest memory

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Speaker 1: of it was my mum got a call when I

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Speaker 1: was at preschool, so I would have been about two

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Speaker 1: or three. She got a call from my preschool saying

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Speaker 1: we're a bit worried we just need to talk to

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Speaker 1: you because it's the middle of winter and Maya keeps

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Speaker 1: coming to school and then she disappears in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the day and she's just wearing like a little

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Speaker 1: dress and it's freezing outside. And we've realized that she's

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Speaker 1: actually bringing spare changes of clothes to Kindy in her

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Speaker 1: little Kindy bag and getting changed throughout the day, and

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Speaker 1: it's not always seasonally appropriate. So I had to have

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Speaker 1: these Kindy bag inspections before I went to Kindy.

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Speaker 2: You pull out all that we should do them.

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Speaker 3: We should do them when you walk into the office.

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Speaker 3: You came in today with a suitcase, and we said,

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Speaker 3: allus case, what was in a suitcase?

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Speaker 1: As you know, if you've been to them on mere office,

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Speaker 1: you'll know that I've got a rack in my office

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Speaker 1: and I will often get changed during the day. I'm

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Speaker 1: having a really early dinner with girlfriends tonight, but I've

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Speaker 1: got to make sure that I've got enough time to

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Speaker 1: go home and put on another outfit, just because you

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Speaker 1: know anyway, so that I've always used clothes as a

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Speaker 1: form of creative expression, right, and there have been times

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Speaker 1: in my life when I haven't, And there've been times

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Speaker 1: when i've that's reflective of a really bad headspack.

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Speaker 2: Were you one of those kids, because I know I was,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know if you were, Jesse who I

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Speaker 2: always played imaginary games when I was a kid. I

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Speaker 2: always had like narratives going in my head and play

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Speaker 2: a lot of imaginary games. So I'd be off in

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Speaker 2: the corner playing and it would be my own invented world.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that was a sign for me

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Speaker 2: when I was young that I loved disappearing into that

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Speaker 2: and I'd just be off in a corner chattering to myself,

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Speaker 2: but I was in my own world. I'll do it

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Speaker 2: with cloth. Yeah, that's another point of which sometimes that

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Speaker 2: gets knocked out of you because it's a bit of

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Speaker 2: a weird thing to do. Let's be honest, right, And

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Speaker 2: there's a point of which someone in your family or

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Speaker 2: your friends would be like, why is holy talking.

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Speaker 1: To myself in like clone pretend? And then I guess.

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Speaker 2: As soon as I was a bit older and I

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Speaker 2: realized I could write those worlds down, I would fill

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Speaker 2: notebooks with stories and stories that included my friends. I

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Speaker 2: used to write these kind of like serialized stories that

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Speaker 2: had me and my friends do in these crazy things,

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Speaker 2: and so I think that it probably was in me

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Speaker 2: from a young age. But what I'd love to ask you, Jesse,

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Speaker 2: is I wonder if this sometimes when you're a kid,

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Speaker 2: we're kind of told you're either creative or your sort

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Speaker 2: of book smart, a bit scientific, a bit massy, and

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Speaker 2: you kind of have to pick right, you have to

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Speaker 2: pick a lane. I'm definitely the stereotypical. I was good

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Speaker 2: at English and writing and books, and I wasn't good

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Speaker 2: at science and maths and things. But Jesse is our

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Speaker 2: resident book smart person. I know me is about to

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Speaker 2: say I was good at maths too. Just hold it me,

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Speaker 2: as although I did.

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Speaker 1: Well in maths, I.

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Speaker 2: Want to go to Jesse and say, did you ever

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Speaker 2: feel that pressure to choose? And were you always like

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Speaker 2: a jewel Lain person.

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Speaker 3: I can remember being in year three and I was really,

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Speaker 3: really really shy kid and I barely spoke, and I

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Speaker 3: cried whenever I stood in front of the class. And

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Speaker 3: I remember the teacher, I remember her name, and I

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Speaker 3: remember her recognizing creativity in me and fostering it, and

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Speaker 3: that changed everything.

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Speaker 2: How did she do that?

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Speaker 3: So I would write store fictional stories of things for

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Speaker 3: other teachers. I would write the stories and I was

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Speaker 3: a terrible speller, and they would just circle the bad spelling,

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Speaker 3: and then I would get disheartened. And she didn't care

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Speaker 3: about the spelling. She just thought that it was great

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Speaker 3: that I was writing stories. And then she encouraged me.

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Speaker 3: I remember there was like a plaything and she actually

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Speaker 3: gave me a role or whatever and got me to

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Speaker 3: do I have this weird memory. I don't know why

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Speaker 3: it's stuck. You know those things you're like, is this significant?

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Speaker 3: She was reading a story to the class. It was

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Speaker 3: a description in a book and it was saying that

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Speaker 3: there were so many flies that the indigenous person in

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Speaker 3: the book was closing their eyes so that the flies

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Speaker 3: didn't get in. And as she was reading, she looked

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Speaker 3: at me and I was trying to do it like

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Speaker 3: close my eyes. She could clearly see that I understood imagery,

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Speaker 3: and like there was.

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Speaker 1: A real wow because she were empathetic with the story

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Speaker 1: the character.

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Speaker 4: I must have been really little when that happened.

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Speaker 3: I find that my journey since has been about trying

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Speaker 3: to get back to five because the way it was

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Speaker 3: beaten out of me. I feel like with essays and stuff,

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Speaker 3: perfectionism meant I wanted to get really good marks. You

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Speaker 3: felt like you had to write the same way, and

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Speaker 3: you put the creativity to the side, and then the

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Speaker 3: inner critic gets so so loud that the creativity is

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Speaker 3: totally stifled.

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Speaker 4: I feel like all of it is.

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Speaker 3: I sit down sometimes during writing my fiction book and

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Speaker 3: I would go, I wish I was five and I

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Speaker 3: could just sit there on my little I had a

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Speaker 3: little desk and a little stool and a pen, well

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Speaker 3: a pensilks didn't have a pen license, and I would

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Speaker 3: write stories.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that you guys talk about writing a lot,

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Speaker 1: like you know, I loved poetry in English and everything,

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Speaker 1: but creativity for me hasn't been something that has required skill.

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Speaker 1: Like one of my fondest memories and what I used

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Speaker 1: to love doing was cutting things out of magazines to

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Speaker 1: decorate my school diaries and stuff, and decorating my folders

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Speaker 1: and my locker and my bedroom, you know, putting posters.

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Speaker 1: I still to this day love to blue tack things

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Speaker 1: up and play with my personal space, whether it's my

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Speaker 1: bedroom or my office or my wardrobe. I like rearranging

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Speaker 1: what I can see. To me, that's a form.

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Speaker 2: Of pace, and you're definitely like a sort of three

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Speaker 2: sixty creative in that way, right, You're always looking at

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Speaker 2: the way things look and wanting to change them and

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Speaker 2: thinking of new ways to do things. Because one of

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Speaker 2: the things about creativity is it's not just about obviously

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Speaker 2: creating art. Whether that's oh, you want to be a

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Speaker 2: writer or you want to be a painter or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Creative thinking is probably becoming more and more important all

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Speaker 2: the time because the machines are not yet as good

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Speaker 2: at that as we are. They may become that if

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Speaker 2: we don't foster creativity in kids. I'm not in a

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Speaker 2: prescriptive way, but don't encourage them to think big picture

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Speaker 2: and live in their imagination for a while and think, well,

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Speaker 2: what would make this better? How could this be solved?

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Speaker 2: What is a different way of saying this. If we

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Speaker 2: don't do that, then you lose something very important that

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Speaker 2: isn't really about writing stories or painting pictures.

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Speaker 3: And you know what else we lose is the flow skate.

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Speaker 3: So you might remember being a kid and whole afternoons

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Speaker 3: disappeared and we would play imagine getting dressed up and

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Speaker 3: Claire and I would play a game.

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Speaker 1: But I used to make up dances.

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Speaker 4: Yes, of course you did.

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Speaker 3: And the way that time because you are so involved

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Speaker 3: in something and you are this incredible focus that doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel like focus because it's so re energizing, that state

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Speaker 3: of flow when you are playing.

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Speaker 1: But I was also very lonely because there were no screens.

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Speaker 1: I had my brother were.

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Speaker 2: Lonely because there were no screens. Yes, yes, I had.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't text my children.

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Speaker 2: Listening to this put your fingers in your ears were

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Speaker 2: all screens.

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Speaker 1: I was lonely because there were no screens. No, but

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Speaker 1: there was no option. So I think one of the

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Speaker 1: things that Foster's creativity is bored them. Yes, and I'm

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Speaker 1: never bored now really, But then I was bored all

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Speaker 1: the time because there was nothing on television, there was

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Speaker 1: no streaming, there was no internet. I had no siblings,

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of friends. So I would

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Speaker 1: make up dancers and I would, you know, I would

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Speaker 1: be forced to be creative. I was never imaginative in

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Speaker 1: the way that you two were, And to this day,

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Speaker 1: I'm not like I'm or of anyone that can write

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Speaker 1: fiction because I don't ever make up stories in my head.

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Speaker 1: I like the real world, but I like physically expressing myself,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it's doing a dance or dressing myself for.

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Speaker 2: In a minute, we're going to come back, and I

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Speaker 2: want to know from Jesse and Meher and I'll be

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Speaker 2: taking notes about how they keep themselves creative when there's

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Speaker 2: so much pressure these days to do a million other things.

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Speaker 2: All right, I need to hear about your hacks because

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Speaker 2: I write books. We all do lots of things, and

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Speaker 2: we've all written books. But I am in the middle

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Speaker 2: of writing my fifth novel, and I have to say

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Speaker 2: my creative process has been heart this time. Right, I've

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Speaker 2: had a bit of writer's block. I found it hard

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Speaker 2: to get him flow. There are a million things distracting me.

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Speaker 2: I've got a million thoughts in my head. I want

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Speaker 2: to know if there have been times in your life

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Speaker 2: when you've had a bit of a block me and

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Speaker 2: how you've managed to unblock it.

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Speaker 4: You've talked to Baud anxiety being a block for you.

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Speaker 1: I've got an image of a toilet plunger when I

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Speaker 1: had a really bad anxiety attack that went for like

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Speaker 1: almost two weeks, and I was diagnosed and everything. I

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Speaker 1: was really worried that I wouldn't be able to write anymore. Ironically,

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Speaker 1: when I was writing, it was the only time I

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Speaker 1: wasn't anxious because that state of concentration and flow that

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Speaker 1: I will get into if I was writing and you know,

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Speaker 1: this is writing articles for Mamma Mia, I don't write fiction.

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Speaker 1: It helped my anxiety.

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Speaker 3: So is that creative rest? You know how you recently

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Speaker 3: brought up that term. I wonder if for you that

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Speaker 3: was almost respite.

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Speaker 1: It was just a distraction, really, and so now my

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Speaker 1: creative rest. I were two hats at MMA MAYA half

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Speaker 1: of me is the co founder of the business, and

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Speaker 1: then half of me is making content like podcasts with

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Speaker 1: you guys and writing and social and stuff. The making

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Speaker 1: of the stuff is the stuff I love, and that's probably,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, thirty percent of my job, maybe forty percent,

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Speaker 1: always trying to get it to be more, and the

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Speaker 1: other part of my job really drains me because it

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Speaker 1: is the opposite of being creative. I mean, sometimes you

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Speaker 1: can have creative solutions to problems, and it's creative for

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Speaker 1: me having ideas that I don't necessarily have to execute.

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Speaker 1: But for me, creativity doesn't also have to be creative.

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Speaker 1: Rest can come from doing a puzzle while I'm listening

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Speaker 1: to an audiobook, or going for a walk while I'm

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Speaker 1: listening to a podcast, or rearranging my wardrobe, or walking

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Speaker 1: around a shopping center and looking at clothes. Someone else

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Speaker 1: has said, it's also about regulating emotionally, regulating For me,

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Speaker 1: creativity regulates me emotionally, and I need it to sort

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Speaker 1: of function it and even keel if that makes sense,

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Speaker 1: if you ever.

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Speaker 2: Struggle to deal creativity, Jesse, because you certainly from the

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Speaker 2: outside seem like an incredibly prolific producer of things, of

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Speaker 2: creative projects.

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Speaker 3: I think you can produce a project without having any creativity,

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Speaker 3: and that's the saddest thing you can create, because it's

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Speaker 3: really it costs you a lot. And the thing that

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Speaker 3: gets in the way of creativity more than anything else,

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Speaker 3: it is your worst nightmare that you have to let

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Speaker 3: go of, is perfectionism.

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Speaker 4: And may you taught me that?

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Speaker 2: And girls do suffer from that more than boys statistically, right,

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Speaker 2: So it's another reason why maybe little girls stop playing

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Speaker 2: and building and inventing things, is they're like, but it's

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Speaker 2: not good.

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Speaker 4: It's not good, enfet.

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Speaker 2: It's not as good as the one that I've seen

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Speaker 2: on social or the one that that influence is making,

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Speaker 2: or the one my brother's making, or so I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to not do it. So how do you overcome that?

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Speaker 3: And I remember it kicking in in adolescence. It was

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Speaker 3: like I would handwrite these stories or I I loved drawing,

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Speaker 3: I loved painting. And then I remember something happened one

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Speaker 3: day where I would like start writing on a page

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Speaker 3: and then I'd be like, my handwriting isn't neat enough.

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Speaker 3: I need to redo that, like and it would and

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Speaker 3: it was awful. It's like you can't get into that

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Speaker 3: state of psych reda batars, Yeah, exactly. So I have

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Speaker 3: found a few things help. I think handwriting is really good.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not just talking about writing. I'm talking about anything.

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Speaker 3: If you feel like you creatively need to get something

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Speaker 3: out a pencil and paper or pen and paper.

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Speaker 1: It's right like that.

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Speaker 4: Oh, so it's so freeing.

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Speaker 3: I think going for a walk or being in a

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Speaker 3: certain space with absolutely no input, and by that I

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Speaker 3: mean spend time in your head. I think we're talking

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Speaker 3: about this when we're away. We were snorkeling, and I

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Speaker 3: love snorkeling, and I love swimming because there's nothing else

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Speaker 3: and it's like my brain. When my mind wanders, it

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Speaker 3: goes to such interesting places, and I miss that from childhood.

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Speaker 3: You don't let your brain do that if it's just input, input, input, So.

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Speaker 2: True, Can I ask you just a little bit back

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Speaker 2: on the critic, because if we think that maybe some

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Speaker 2: little girls and girls are stopping being creative because they're

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Speaker 2: worried about what people are going to say to them. Yea,

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Speaker 2: as you've said, Jesse, when you were at school, though,

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Speaker 2: like who do you think you are? Or whatever? Have

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Speaker 2: you learned anything that's useful about how to not care

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Speaker 2: quite so much about that and still be true to

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Speaker 2: what you want to.

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Speaker 3: Do a few things. I think done is better than perfect.

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Speaker 3: You can't edit or rearrange something that you haven't started.

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Speaker 3: You've got to just put something down. Sometimes creativity can

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Speaker 3: be just for you. It's not a performance. It's not

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Speaker 3: for other people to judge. And you can draw something,

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Speaker 3: or you can make something and go the best feeling.

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Speaker 3: And I, as we say, we've all written books. I

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Speaker 3: can tell you can write a book and you can

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Speaker 3: get a great review or sell x many copies. There

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Speaker 3: is nothing like the feeling of feeling proud of something

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Speaker 3: you have created. There's nothing else that's going to make

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Speaker 3: you the teacher giving your yeah. And in fact, it's

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Speaker 3: in the doing. It's like in the doing of something.

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Speaker 3: So the thing that's helped me the most has been

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Speaker 3: playing with my now nine month old, so watching her,

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Speaker 3: and it's at the moment the developmental stage is putting

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Speaker 3: ball in roundhole, right, So I just show her how

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Speaker 3: to do it, and then she doesn't do it and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, no, the ball goes in there.

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Speaker 4: But then I'm like, no, no, No. The thing is

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Speaker 4: the playing.

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Speaker 3: The thing is that she picks the ball up to

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Speaker 3: eat it and then she throws it at the dog,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, it's.

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Speaker 4: The journey, not the destination.

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Speaker 3: I love sitting on the floor with her and playing

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Speaker 3: with toys.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 1: Watching her exploring.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Mia, what's the best advice you've ever been given

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Speaker 2: about not caring about what other people think?

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Speaker 1: It's that thing of dance, like no one's watching, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I had a lovely time going to a like an

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Speaker 1: all female disco club recently, which that felt really creative,

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Speaker 1: like everyone's got disco for grenups, yeah, and everyone was

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Speaker 1: just dancing and it was just fun because no one felt,

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Speaker 1: oh my being judged. Like, as women and as girls,

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Speaker 1: we learn very quickly when we're girls to be watching

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Speaker 1: ourselves from the outside and judging ourselves before someone else

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Speaker 1: judges us. And I'm watching at the moment my daughter,

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Speaker 1: who is very creative, and you'll go from thing to things.

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Speaker 1: So she was like sea glass, hunting for ages and

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Speaker 1: collecting sea glass. Now she's just started painting, and I'm

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Speaker 1: so envious because she's just having a go. She's just like,

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Speaker 1: got these canvases and she's just doing all these kinds

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Speaker 1: of things, and I'm just like, wow, I would feel

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Speaker 1: too vulnerable to put something on canvas. I'm very into

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Speaker 1: low stakes creativity, like baking something, making a cake, rearranging

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Speaker 1: some pillows on my couch, moving some furniture around, Like

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Speaker 1: I really like those little light touch bits of creativity.

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Speaker 3: Holly, how have you with a daughter who is going

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Speaker 3: into adolescence. How do you make sure that she doesn't

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Speaker 3: let that critic steal creativity from her?

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Speaker 2: Well, one of the things I talked to her about

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Speaker 2: a lot, because I think it's there's a point that

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Speaker 2: girls go through, as you just said me away, suddenly

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Speaker 2: they feel very visible and everybody's looking and judging, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes it can be a bit sad for moms and dads,

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Speaker 2: I guess, to see their little creative swirling around girls.

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Speaker 2: You know, a lot of girls will be literally dancing

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Speaker 2: like nobody's watching, playing with their friends, scrapping, not caring

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Speaker 2: about stuff, dancing around, creating plays, doing all those things,

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Speaker 2: and then suddenly it's like closed down. No oh no,

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Speaker 2: it's not cool. It's not and it can be a

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Speaker 2: bit heartbreaking even to watch it. We make sure that

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Speaker 2: in our house it's very clearly explicitly a silly space, right,

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Speaker 2: a great word. In our house, you can be as

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Speaker 2: silly and goofy and uncool as you want. You can

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Speaker 2: try out ideas that you might not want to say

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Speaker 2: out loud anywhere else. Nobody's judging you for whatever. Of

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Speaker 2: course that isn't truth. The siblings judge each other all

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Speaker 2: the time. But in theory you can try out anything

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Speaker 2: you want. What's hard. I think it's really interesting what

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Speaker 2: you say, Jesse, because what I see about my daughter,

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Speaker 2: who I don't think she thinks is herself as very

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Speaker 2: creative anymore, but I know it's in there, and she's

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Speaker 2: been writing stories for school she's at high school now

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00:19:08,007 --> 00:19:10,607
Speaker 2: and she is a bit pas paralyzed by that, like

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Speaker 2: it's not perfect, be embarrassed if I had to read

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Speaker 2: this out in front of people. So I think all

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Speaker 2: of that stuff about reinforcing this is just for you.

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Speaker 2: And as you said me, I just have a go

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Speaker 2: Like that is just so important because once you lose

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Speaker 2: touch with that part of yourself and you lose confidence

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Speaker 2: in it, it's hard to reconnect to it sometimes and

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Speaker 2: if and adults find that too, So it's really important

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Speaker 2: to almost create a safe space for yourself to be

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Speaker 2: this is where I get to be.

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Speaker 1: Keep the stakes low, yeah, you know, and silencing that

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Speaker 1: in a critic takes work.

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Speaker 4: I think I had something from Michelle Obama once.

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Speaker 3: I think it was her who said, like, the rest

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Speaker 3: of the world for the rest of your life is.

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Speaker 4: Going to tell you're an idiot.

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Speaker 3: In your home is where there's just unconditional love and

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Speaker 3: unconditional support for everything that you do. And I really

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Speaker 3: liked that idea. And I also wish that at that

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Speaker 3: adolescent stage someone had told me that creativity is messiness.

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Speaker 3: That's actually what it is, and you might not seek

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Speaker 3: someone else's creativity and go Wow, that's amazing.

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Speaker 4: I could never do that.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: Creativity is mess working through stages, and it is always imperfect,

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Speaker 3: and the spelling errors a part of it, and the

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Speaker 3: color that turned wrong on the canvas is part of it.

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Speaker 2: And I think for parents listening to this, it's very hard.

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Speaker 2: I find it very hard, and probably because a large

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Speaker 2: part of my professional life has been correcting other people's

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Speaker 2: mistakes as an editor. You know, when my daughter does

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Speaker 2: get me to read her school story, I find it

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00:20:37,167 --> 00:20:39,527
Speaker 2: very hard to resist the red penage, right, which is

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00:20:39,567 --> 00:20:41,727
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, And you have to walk a

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00:20:41,767 --> 00:20:45,967
Speaker 2: line between obviously we want them to do well, but

443
00:20:46,007 --> 00:20:50,367
Speaker 2: also just addressing the content in its purest form. Like

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00:20:50,487 --> 00:20:52,487
Speaker 2: if the first thing my daughter hears when I pick

445
00:20:52,527 --> 00:20:54,527
Speaker 2: up a piece of paper something she's written, is like

446
00:20:54,807 --> 00:20:58,087
Speaker 2: you've spelt that wrong. Immediately her shoulders go down, her

447
00:20:58,167 --> 00:20:59,647
Speaker 2: head goes like you said.

448
00:20:59,447 --> 00:21:01,287
Speaker 1: With the teacher that circled the spelling STU.

449
00:21:01,367 --> 00:21:03,087
Speaker 2: So it came about the spelling and not the idea

450
00:21:03,287 --> 00:21:05,447
Speaker 2: we need to be And it's very hard because you know,

451
00:21:05,887 --> 00:21:09,407
Speaker 2: parenting is competitive now. Schools are very demanding now. But

452
00:21:09,647 --> 00:21:12,207
Speaker 2: you've also got a police You're in a policeman a bit.

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00:21:12,327 --> 00:21:15,367
Speaker 1: I think I have a Lego question for you both.

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00:21:16,047 --> 00:21:18,647
Speaker 1: When you were kids, I still like to build things

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00:21:18,687 --> 00:21:21,367
Speaker 1: with Lego. Now we buy those kids and do it

456
00:21:21,407 --> 00:21:24,967
Speaker 1: as a family project. But did you like using the

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00:21:25,007 --> 00:21:27,647
Speaker 1: bricks to just build your own creations or did you

458
00:21:27,727 --> 00:21:31,487
Speaker 1: like following the instructions to build a specific thing? Jesse, Yes,

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00:21:32,527 --> 00:21:33,767
Speaker 1: you like to build your own theme.

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00:21:33,887 --> 00:21:37,407
Speaker 3: No, because I needed to do it perfectly, and I

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00:21:37,447 --> 00:21:39,927
Speaker 3: wish that I hadn't like, I wish that I had

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00:21:40,007 --> 00:21:44,247
Speaker 3: let myself do more play with it, but instead.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to build my own thing.

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00:21:46,527 --> 00:21:47,207
Speaker 1: Of course you did.

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00:21:47,327 --> 00:21:50,687
Speaker 2: My son loves to build a model like exactly how

466
00:21:50,727 --> 00:21:53,647
Speaker 2: it is. I like to follow instructions and I always

467
00:21:53,687 --> 00:21:55,767
Speaker 2: say take it apart and try and make something else

468
00:21:55,807 --> 00:21:58,447
Speaker 2: from it, and he's like, no, it's perfect. Well yeah,

469
00:21:58,487 --> 00:21:59,447
Speaker 2: but you could make it better.

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00:21:59,647 --> 00:22:02,607
Speaker 1: I only ever want to follow directions. I find it

471
00:22:02,647 --> 00:22:05,167
Speaker 1: really intimidating that idea. I wonder if I'm scared of

472
00:22:05,207 --> 00:22:07,447
Speaker 1: being judged. I don't know. You say you love beg

473
00:22:07,447 --> 00:22:09,047
Speaker 1: on the floor playing. I found that one of the

474
00:22:09,047 --> 00:22:10,287
Speaker 1: whole had as parts of parenting.

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00:22:10,367 --> 00:22:11,047
Speaker 2: I hated it.

476
00:22:11,207 --> 00:22:13,047
Speaker 3: You also had three kids, and I'm in the early stage.

477
00:22:13,207 --> 00:22:15,767
Speaker 1: No, no, only one at a time. But I never

478
00:22:15,927 --> 00:22:18,007
Speaker 1: liked it, even from the beginning. I just didn't like

479
00:22:18,047 --> 00:22:20,407
Speaker 1: And when it's like tell me a story, I'm like, no,

480
00:22:20,687 --> 00:22:22,527
Speaker 1: can I read you a story? I don't know if

481
00:22:22,807 --> 00:22:25,887
Speaker 1: I just don't trust my imagination. But there's so many

482
00:22:25,927 --> 00:22:28,887
Speaker 1: different ways of being creative.

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00:22:29,047 --> 00:22:30,087
Speaker 4: Yes, like my.

484
00:22:30,047 --> 00:22:33,847
Speaker 1: Son's super creative. He makes creative breakfasts. Yeah like that, Yeah,

485
00:22:33,847 --> 00:22:34,727
Speaker 1: which is very handy.

486
00:22:35,087 --> 00:22:37,447
Speaker 2: Thank you. I think we've all learned a lot about

487
00:22:37,447 --> 00:22:40,807
Speaker 2: creativity and I've got some acts. Thank you out louders

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00:22:40,807 --> 00:22:43,407
Speaker 2: for listening to this special episode of That's Incredible all

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00:22:43,447 --> 00:22:46,167
Speaker 2: about creativity. We hope it's been helpful to you and

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00:22:46,247 --> 00:22:48,887
Speaker 2: maybe your daughter if they're listening with you, to harness

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00:22:48,927 --> 00:22:51,807
Speaker 2: their creativity too. Thank you for joining us, and thank

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00:22:51,847 --> 00:22:53,167
Speaker 2: you the Lego. Goodbye,