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Speaker 1: From Mamma Mia.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Spill your daily pop culture fix. I'm

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Speaker 2: Laura Brodneck and I'm m Vernon, and welcome to a

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Speaker 2: very special, brutally honored review that we had to pretty

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Speaker 2: much release midweek. We usually wait till Friday, but this

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Speaker 2: Friday is a public holiday. But also I know I

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Speaker 2: couldn't wait another second to talk about this show, and

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Speaker 2: you also couldn't wait to talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, can I tell you about my relationship

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Speaker 3: with this show?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Do you want to?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's in the title, but do

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Speaker 2: you want to tell people what it is? In case

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Speaker 2: you just clicked in blindly.

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Speaker 3: The show is Love Story? Is that it is a

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Speaker 3: Jeff love story or jfk Carolyn?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so the overall series is going to be

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Speaker 2: love Story. So it's the new series in the Ryan

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Speaker 2: Murphy universe. It was originally going to be American love story,

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Speaker 2: like we have American Crime Story, and at the last

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Speaker 2: minute they dropped the American I guess because they wanted

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Speaker 2: to do different love stories.

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Speaker 1: But it's love Story. Colin Yes, John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior and Carolyn Bassett official name. Okay, So that's

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about today. Please continue with your story.

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Speaker 3: So I was like avoiding the show from the beginning

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Speaker 3: because cool, Well, I'm one of those people like I'm

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Speaker 3: obsessed with the Kennedys and the Kennedy family.

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Speaker 1: Really before this show?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, how have we never talked about this? I'm obsessed.

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Speaker 1: I love that you still got some mysteries about you.

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Speaker 3: I am obsessed with them. Oh my god, Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad I didn't start off the way I

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Speaker 2: planned to before you said that, because I was going

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Speaker 2: to say, did you know about the Kennedy's below?

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Speaker 3: And I like, in my heart of hearts, I genuinely

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Speaker 3: thought when I was younger that I would marry Jack Schlossberg.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you still could. It could be a reality.

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Speaker 3: That's as fan single, right, I don't know, but he

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Speaker 3: is like very into his like elect politics right now. Yesh,

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Speaker 3: he's busy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's gone from his busy days anyway.

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Speaker 3: So, because I knew it was love story, and I

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Speaker 3: knew Ryan Murphy does his big series, I knew the

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Speaker 3: whole series would be focused on their relationship. I didn't

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Speaker 3: know much about Carolyn Bassett. I only really knew a

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Speaker 3: lot about like the Kennedy family, so I was thinking, like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if this is for me. However, Saturday morning,

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Speaker 3: I woke up at ten AM was like, Oh, I

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Speaker 3: think I'm just gonna put on one episode. I'll watch it.

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Speaker 3: Don't know what happened, except then it was six PM,

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Speaker 3: and I've watched all nine episodes.

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Speaker 1: In one day. Can I tell you I've watched every

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Speaker 1: episode at least three times? Stop.

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Speaker 2: I just I got you know how you just get

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Speaker 2: in a spiral of the show and you can't think

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Speaker 2: of anything else. So I would watch them, and then

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Speaker 2: while I was waiting for the next episode to come out,

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Speaker 2: I would rewatch the other episodes because I love a

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Speaker 2: good rewatch.

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Speaker 3: I am so obsessed with her as a person.

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Speaker 1: Really, with Carolyn, or with Sarah Pigeon or both uh.

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Speaker 3: With Sarah Pigeon is amazing. Carolyn Bissett as her that

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Speaker 3: character like, she is the character in my head. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: even though we've seen her in different things, especially as

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Speaker 3: a brunette, she is the character in my head. She

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Speaker 3: also made me realize that the Hannah Montana like revealed

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Speaker 3: things real because her as a brunette looks like a

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Speaker 3: different person.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, Yeah, like completely.

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Speaker 2: When I heard that it was going to be Sarah Pigeon,

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Speaker 2: I had only seen her in the new I Know

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Speaker 2: We Did Last Summer where she plays Stevie and talk

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Speaker 2: about being like, I know, the whole point of being

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Speaker 2: actresses that you embody different people. But the switch from that,

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Speaker 2: even just the way she moves and walks and obviously

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Speaker 2: how she looks, yes, is just so dramatically different. I

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Speaker 2: could never picture her playing Carolyne and she just does

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Speaker 2: a complete like she's morphs into being her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, when you told me that she was in

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Speaker 3: I Know what she did last Summer too, I was like, no,

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Speaker 3: she's not, And I was like, no, she's not. That's

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Speaker 3: a different person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, she's absolutely amazing in it. The whole story

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Speaker 3: just blew me away, Like there was so much of

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Speaker 3: that era that I just never knew about. But it's

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Speaker 3: like a I guess it's like kind of an in

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Speaker 3: between generation of like in between me and my parents,

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Speaker 3: where they also didn't know much about it, but everything

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Speaker 3: that happened with the two of them, especially with the

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Speaker 3: paparazzi and the deaths and stuff was just like top

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Speaker 3: page news, like she was known as the Diana of America.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I was only a kid when they got

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Speaker 2: married and when they died, so I don't remember anything

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Speaker 2: of it, but years later, just because I think like

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Speaker 2: she's she's always brought up as a star, icons I

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Speaker 2: feel like I always knew more about her than him.

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Speaker 1: And there was a lot of controversy when this show was.

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Speaker 2: Announced, one because everyone was excited to see who Love

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Speaker 2: Story would be about, and when it was Carolyn and

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Speaker 2: John obviously just because they died in such a tragic

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Speaker 2: way and it has been many decades now, but because

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Speaker 2: their family and friends are still alive and people still

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Speaker 2: talk about them and they've had a real reckoning with

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Speaker 2: like paparazzi in fame culture and all these things. Is

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Speaker 2: that a lot of people were very against it, and

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Speaker 2: obviously the Kennedy family and her family are still very

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Speaker 2: against it. But I think once you saw the show,

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Speaker 2: they sort of warmed to them a little bit. So

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Speaker 2: Sarah Pigeon was cast first as Carolyn, and they went

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Speaker 2: through like an extensive casting process to the point where

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Speaker 2: they were even sliding into influencers DMS. Anyone who looked

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Speaker 2: like Carolyn Bessett and saying like the casting director being like,

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Speaker 2: can you send in a tape because a lot of

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Speaker 2: those tapes have been released now all the girls are like,

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Speaker 2: here's my audition for Carolyn that I was asked to

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Speaker 2: send in, and I'm glad they didn't go that way.

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Speaker 2: That's an intense part for someone who hasn't acted before.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Sarah Pision plays her so well. Yes, Like

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Speaker 3: some of the scenes where she's just like on the

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Speaker 3: floor crying, screaming. I'm like, that's the horror girl coming

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Speaker 3: out of her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, because she has acted for a while, but

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Speaker 2: this is like I know you did last Summer, which

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Speaker 2: came out over a year ago now, and then this

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Speaker 2: her two big breakout roles. So they cast her and

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Speaker 2: it is one of those things like, uh, they always

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Speaker 2: say like you're best with the colored hair you're born with,

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Speaker 2: which I've always believed.

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Speaker 3: But she just looks so good as a blonde, so

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Speaker 3: much better as a blonde.

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Speaker 1: God got it wrong. She wasn't meant to be anet.

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Speaker 3: You're actually right, she's like one of the only people

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Speaker 3: who looks better with dyed hair.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's like they always said, like, never go one shade

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Speaker 2: dark or lighter then your natural hair color, and that

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Speaker 2: everything I know is Alie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not true. She's amazing as better as a blonde.

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Speaker 1: So they cast her, and then they could not find

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Speaker 1: an actor for John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Jr. They went through extensive casting process. They cast

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Speaker 2: in it far and wide. They were literally going up

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Speaker 2: to men on the street and being like, hey, he's

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Speaker 2: just wait a second, so do you look like this man?

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Speaker 2: And then they got down to the wire of like

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Speaker 2: I think I'm about to start shooting in a and

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Speaker 2: they didn't have him, which I can't understand how they

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Speaker 2: like they yeah, exactly. So they had everyone else cast

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Speaker 2: and they had were moving ahead like they were like

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Speaker 2: Sarah Pitchins said she would go into fittings and be

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Speaker 2: in production meetings and stuff, and she's like, have we

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Speaker 2: found the guy yet? And so finally Ryan Murphy, who

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Speaker 2: is obviously very at touched to this show, but he's

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Speaker 2: more like the overarching source, like he's not writing and

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Speaker 2: directing the episodes or anything like that. He was like,

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Speaker 2: go back to the very first pile of pictures that

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Speaker 2: came in for the very first round of auditions, go

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Speaker 2: back through them and see who you missed. And that's

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Speaker 2: how they found Paul Anthony Kelly, who's in his late

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Speaker 2: thirties and has been trying to be an actor for

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Speaker 2: like fifteen years and just never got off the ground.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, and they just cast him because

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Speaker 3: he's hot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's really hot, because he looks like John Fanny.

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Speaker 3: I only want it, like, and we've said this so

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Speaker 3: many times, I only want my movies and TV shows

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Speaker 3: to have hot people, so.

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Speaker 2: Fair and hotness can also just be a vibe exactly.

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Speaker 2: And he looks so much like him, it's absolutely crazy.

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Speaker 3: Like I've seen photos of like the comparisons, and then

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Speaker 3: sometimes I'll see a photo of Jfkjune and I'm like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: that's the actor, and then I'll see a photo of

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Speaker 3: Paul and I'm like, oh that's jfkg Yeah.

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Speaker 1: For our young friend Paul.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what the future holds for him, because

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Speaker 2: he's good in this, but I wouldn't say he's the

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Speaker 2: strongest actor. Yeah, I mean it is his first big role.

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Speaker 2: He might get better. It's not a huge one to

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Speaker 2: have straight at the door. But I think he's kind

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Speaker 2: of his cachet is that he looks like John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy junior and he's super hot.

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Speaker 3: But I think this whole season is just about Karen

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Speaker 3: beerseet oh, like he's like the guy who's there, I guess.

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Speaker 3: But that's why I binged it in one whole day,

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Speaker 3: because it isn't all just about the love story. It's

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Speaker 3: actually about her and her relationship with like being a

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Speaker 3: public figure, which was so interesting and so scary, I

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Speaker 3: do think, and I'll talk about this later, because there

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Speaker 3: were certain parts where I felt like was so unnecessary,

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Speaker 3: and I think that plays into how would these kind

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Speaker 3: of show similar to like American Crime Story, how we

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Speaker 3: are kind of becoming as a society with tragedy. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it must be so hard for the Kennedy is

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Speaker 3: like Carolyn Kennedy who's still alive, who actually lost her

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Speaker 3: daughter in December last year.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking of that watching Grace Gummer play her,

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Speaker 2: and I think Grace did an incredible job of playing

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Speaker 2: her and having that emotion in there. But I was

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Speaker 2: thinking that as we watched her on screen lose her mother,

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Speaker 2: lose her brother, and when there's scenes of the little

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Speaker 2: kids running around, thinking like Oh my god, that little

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Speaker 2: girl was recently a grown up adult with like a

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Speaker 2: life at a family of her own, and then she

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Speaker 2: so sadly died.

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Speaker 3: And I, yeah, just like Carolyn Kennedy in particular, I

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Speaker 3: feel like has been through so much hardship, with like

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Speaker 3: a dad and uncle being assassinated, her mom dying when

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Speaker 3: she was young, her brother dying, now a daughter dying,

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Speaker 3: and like the Cole Kennedy Curse has literally like surrounded her. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Like she's been the one person the.

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Speaker 1: Story that the Kennedy Curse are wild, it's actually wild.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that she's still very much here and

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Speaker 3: she was the usmbassador in Australia for like the last

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Speaker 3: few years, like she was, she's like in our lives still. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And I think it is something like a bit icky

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Speaker 3: watching that play out on TV, Like it doesn't feel

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Speaker 3: as separated as say, for example, The Crown, where the

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Speaker 3: show was actually such a nice way to portray the

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Speaker 3: royal family. Yeah, it was just just like there are

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Speaker 3: certain parts, especially towards the end of the show, there's

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Speaker 3: certain scenes where I was like, I wish they didn't

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Speaker 3: do that because I actually feel sick watching this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was interesting for something that's love story.

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Speaker 2: It'll see if Ryan Murphy shows it's like American crime,

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Speaker 2: American horror that are so dark, and love story was

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Speaker 2: meant to be like a little bit of the antidote

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Speaker 2: to that.

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Speaker 1: They chose a love story that is also wrapped up

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Speaker 1: in tragedy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So going back to the beginning, obviously we start off

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Speaker 2: with them just before they go on the plane, and

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Speaker 2: when I saw that, I was like, oh Jesus, like,

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Speaker 2: we're really getting straight into this. But then when we

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Speaker 2: go back seven years earlier, and these are the episodes

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Speaker 2: that I've rewatched over and over again, that's so good.

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Speaker 2: I could watch a fifty episode fifty not fifteen episode

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Speaker 2: series of Carolyn Bassett, like the character of her living

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Speaker 2: in that messy studio apartment in New York, hooking with models,

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Speaker 2: going on.

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Speaker 1: Her friend before she met girl. Yeah, because it's actually

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Speaker 1: the more interesting part of her working at Calvin Klein.

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Speaker 1: Like all those scenes, I was like, hook them to

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Speaker 1: my veins.

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Speaker 2: I love this and so interesting how they kind of

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Speaker 2: frame those early days, because the thing about Caroline and

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Speaker 2: John is that all their friends and family talk about

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Speaker 2: wanting privacy for them, and I know that, Like their

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Speaker 2: immediate family have really stuck to that, but their wider

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Speaker 2: circle and family and friends have given so many interviews,

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Speaker 2: written so many books about them have like and that's

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Speaker 2: where they got all the information from.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like there's even so many like ex boyfriends

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Speaker 3: and ex partners, which we'll probably get into it bit later.

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Speaker 3: But I feel like it's wild to see someone and they.

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Speaker 3: I think what the show does really well is portray

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Speaker 3: not only has she had to handle the press and

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Speaker 3: the paparazzi, but how like her nearest and dearest had

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Speaker 3: to handle as well, with the sister and stuff who

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Speaker 3: also died in the plane crash. Everyone just forgets about her. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: And I think that's what they did really well.

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Speaker 1: But should we get into the yes, let's get the

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Speaker 1: first meeting.

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Speaker 2: So there's been differing stories over the years of how

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Speaker 2: they actually met because Carolyn and John never confirmed it.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting. There's so much footage of John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior talking. Of course, because the man loved a camera,

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Speaker 2: he loved a speech, he loved guest starring on a

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Speaker 2: TV show, will he tried to be an actor, So

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Speaker 2: there's heaps of footage of him. There's only cumulatively like

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Speaker 2: eight minutes of Carolyn Bassett talking, and it's only if

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Speaker 2: she's just caught coming out of vent or something and

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Speaker 2: she gives a quick like, oh, I love the show

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Speaker 2: kind of. There's not much about her, and they never

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Speaker 2: really talked about exactly how they met. They always wanted

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Speaker 2: to keep it for themselves. But there's two different stories.

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Speaker 2: One is that he went into Calvin Klein to be

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Speaker 2: fitted for suits and they pulled Carolyn in, And this

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Speaker 2: is someone who used to work with her said this

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Speaker 2: pulled her in to help fit him because she was

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Speaker 2: the most evervescent woman on the floor at the time

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Speaker 2: in the and working in like the fitting room with

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Speaker 2: like prestige clients. And they said he left with four

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Speaker 2: suits and her phone number. The other story that a

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Speaker 2: lot of people tells that they met at the fundraiser,

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Speaker 2: So the producers of Love Story decided to go with

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Speaker 2: that as the more popular story, But there's no evidence

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Speaker 2: that Calvin Klein introduced them.

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Speaker 3: It was like a main character in the shit.

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Speaker 2: I loved that as well. I love the whole Calvin

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Speaker 2: client situation. So we have their meeting or did we think.

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Speaker 3: I loved their meeting. It reminded me of like really

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Speaker 3: old school rom com where the girl knows she's hot yep,

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Speaker 3: and knows that she can get anyone she wants, and

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Speaker 3: the whole like meet cute of the situation where Calvin

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Speaker 3: introduced her to him and he asked for her number

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Speaker 3: and she's like, you know where I work?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like bringing my number. Strange.

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Speaker 2: That is such a good point, Emily, because we keep

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Speaker 2: talking about why people can't make rom coms and why

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Speaker 2: meetings in new rom coms now like no one can

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Speaker 2: nail the meet cute. No one can.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: The last time someone nailed a meet cute in like

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Speaker 2: a new age rom com was set it up on Netflix,

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, five or six years ago, that's so

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Speaker 2: true desert since then.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And we all go like, I think as a collective,

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Speaker 3: we've all moved to make rom coms closer to reality.

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Speaker 3: So we all go that would never happen in real life,

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Speaker 3: like girls will be like falling over to give them. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, it's not meant to be real life,

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Speaker 3: it's meant to be a fantasy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the thing is this moment, like they'd meet cute

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Speaker 2: and Love Story doesn't feel crazy. It feels very rooted

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Speaker 2: in reality, probably because it is, but it just it

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Speaker 2: felt big and you could actually see that instance spark

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Speaker 2: between them. Take no modern rom comms, yes, take this

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Speaker 2: is not even a rom com and it's.

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Speaker 3: A really sad story and it's so good.

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Speaker 2: And so then we have their first date at the

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Speaker 2: restaurant that's a real restaurant New York and apparently like

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Speaker 2: it's a three hour wait to get in at the

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Speaker 2: moment because everyone watched Love Story.

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Speaker 3: It's like when Taylor Swift went to our Fair restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's just like that.

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Speaker 2: So that's been like a staple in New York, that

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Speaker 2: restaurant for a long time.

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Speaker 3: But now it's for a laminated menu.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What a fun date though, just to go and like

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Speaker 2: sit it like a like an excellent you know, excellent

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Speaker 2: Apparently the food's amazing, not that I'll ever get a

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Speaker 2: table there ever, again, just to like, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like have just beers and like a lumbonade menu and

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Speaker 2: like that whole kind of how it's decorated and everything.

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Speaker 3: And I know for sure, Oh Kennedy has never touched

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Speaker 3: the laminated menu.

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Speaker 1: That's his favorite place, he said, he's what he took

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Speaker 1: them there.

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Speaker 3: If anything, the menus are laminated.

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Speaker 2: We don't know if the whole bike getting stolen thing

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Speaker 2: is true, but apparently it is.

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Speaker 3: He loved riding bikes.

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Speaker 1: He did love riding bikes, and they loved the back

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Speaker 1: of a cat. Yep. He's just I think that's such

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Speaker 1: an interesting way to he's like the boy next door. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's like he is just like the he's he's a

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Speaker 1: quintessential dumb blonde, except he's not a woman or nor blonde,

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Speaker 1: but he has that old school dumb blonde kind of

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Speaker 1: mentality that movies used to like really attach themselves to.

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Speaker 1: And you have a blonde girl on this who's the

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Speaker 1: smart one and who's like, you know, setting the stakes

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Speaker 1: and like, who is so cross everything that's happening, and

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Speaker 1: he's just a bumbling boy.

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Speaker 3: It's so cute. And but even like that first date

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Speaker 3: it was very rom com s with him arriving so late,

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Speaker 3: she's like looking beautiful, she's storming out, and him going please, Caroline,

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Speaker 3: please just give me like a few seconds, like please,

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Speaker 3: I mean, and the fact that she he like gives

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Speaker 3: him a second chance, which like now in rom coms,

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Speaker 3: that never happened. It has to be like this whole

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Speaker 3: deal of win your back. And she was like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 2: I think having his bike stolen really set who they

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Speaker 2: were straight away, because you can see like at first,

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Speaker 2: he kind of tries to present himself as a kind

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Speaker 2: of every man, but when he gets his bike stolen

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Speaker 2: and the fact that it's happened so many times, it

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Speaker 2: really sets up his character that like he's out in

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Speaker 2: the world, He's going to this cheap little restaurant, he's

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Speaker 2: riding his bike. He's not like the rest of his family,

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Speaker 2: except that he gets his bike stolen all the time

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Speaker 2: because he's so rich and nothing matters to him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 2: Kind of shows you exactly who he is, like who

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Speaker 2: was trying to be versus who he actually is.

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Speaker 3: That's so true. And how she takes a piss out

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Speaker 3: of him immediately, Yeah exactly, and he kind of likes it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: And then we have a little plot twist by the

385
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Speaker 2: name of Daryl Hannah who arrives back in his apartments

386
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Speaker 2: And do you know who Daryl Hannah was before this?

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Speaker 1: No?

388
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Speaker 2: Oh, I gosh, kill a big. Yes, she's in Kill

389
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Speaker 2: Bill one and two. Iconic actress model. Now she's like

390
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Speaker 2: an activist.

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Speaker 3: So she was like super super famous.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so she got her big breakout role in

393
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Speaker 2: Blade Runner with Harrison Ford. Seen it She's a Blade Runner,

394
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Speaker 2: which came out in nineteen eighty four. You definitely won't

395
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Speaker 2: birl And I wasn't even born then. And then she

396
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 2: was in Splash with Tom Hanks also before both of

397
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Speaker 2: us were born. I'm just trying to paint a picture

398
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Speaker 2: how famous she was and then went onto a bunch

399
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Speaker 2: of other movies. But she was an iconic Hollywood girl

400
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Speaker 2: along with also being like an incredible actress.

401
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 1: And they dated on it.

402
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Speaker 3: So were they like a power couple?

403
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,760
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, very much. So. So we know John F.

404
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 2: Kennedy loved a famous lady he had cooked up with

405
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 2: Madonna celebrity he dated Sarah Jessica Parker. Sara Jessica Parker

406
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 2: will never talk about it because she's such a lady.

407
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,960
Speaker 2: But she once said to Andy Cohen, who's her really

408
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 2: good friend, the only person who can ask her. He's like,

409
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,400
Speaker 2: what was it like to kiss John F. Kennedy Jr.

410
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: And Sarah Jessica Parker normally never answers that question, but

411
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Speaker 2: one time only she said whatever you think.

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Speaker 1: It was like whatever you imagine. It was like it

413
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Speaker 1: was exactly like that, And I was like, girl, I

414
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 1: know exactly what you're saying.

415
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:55,760
Speaker 3: As if they didn't write this into the Sex and

416
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 3: the City storyline, I know.

417
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So in the produce said that they did look

418
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 1: at one stage of having like more of John's famous

419
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,439
Speaker 1: ex girlfriends, like I mean, Healing dated Madonna briefly, but

420
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,440
Speaker 1: they had like a back and forth and like Sarah

421
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:09,720
Speaker 1: Jessica Parker and if you're.

422
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Speaker 3: In this show, when she started listing names of his exes, I'm.

423
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,920
Speaker 1: Like, what, Yeah, that's all real. This man I know, Well,

424
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 1: he was a man about town. Yeah, he was like that.

425
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,679
Speaker 2: He loved see like the when they could say he

426
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 2: was like the Prince, Like there's an autobiography about him

427
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,040
Speaker 2: called The Reluctant Prince, And I was like, he didn't

428
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 2: see that reluctant when he first kind of you know,

429
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,160
Speaker 2: like early twenties kind of out and out and about

430
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,879
Speaker 2: in the town. And I guess that there was so

431
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 2: much he had to take on by being a Kennedy,

432
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,199
Speaker 2: like the expectation and living in the public eye. That

433
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,400
Speaker 2: he was also one of the Kennedy family members who

434
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 2: really lent into the fame of it more so than

435
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 2: like a lot of his cousins and siblings and things

436
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 2: like that. So Daryl Hannah shows up played by Dre Hemingway,

437
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 2: who I have loved for so many years. Like talk

438
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,159
Speaker 2: about the ultimate cool it girl, and so in that case,

439
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 2: she would have been the perfect person to play Darryl

440
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 2: because they're both activists, models, that kind of that cool

441
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 2: ick girl thing that you can't teach. But of course,

442
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 2: as we know now, Dale Hannah very very upset with

443
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 2: her portrayal on the show. She did you read her essay?

444
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,359
Speaker 3: I did read her essay and I read it, which is,

445
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,919
Speaker 3: I think the opposite of what most people did. I

446
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 3: read it before I watched the show, right, So I

447
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 3: read it and I was like, this is insane. Like

448
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 3: she pretty much listed everything that her character in the

449
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,439
Speaker 3: show did and like rebutted all of it. Yeah, I

450
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 3: was like, I wasn't snorting coke, I wasn't like showing

451
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 3: up to someone's funeral unannouns like, I wasn't doing these things.

452
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,199
Speaker 3: I wasn't like this crazy party girl. Yeah, and I

453
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 3: was like, how bad could it be? It was bad.

454
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, I didn't think it was that bad.

455
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:38,880
Speaker 1: The way she was portrayed in the show.

456
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 3: She was so unlikable.

457
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:41,879
Speaker 1: Was she I didn't think?

458
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,439
Speaker 2: Okay, Maybe because I've been such a Dalhannah fangirl for

459
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 2: such a long time, and I feel like I know

460
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 2: so much about her, Like I've watched so many interviews

461
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 2: with her, I've read so much about her.

462
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 1: Maybe I was just projecting things in my mind.

463
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 3: I didn't know anything about her, and I was like,

464
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 3: who was this crazy?

465
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,959
Speaker 2: Actors they do make her seem a little bit kind

466
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 2: of self centered, but I kind of agree with everything.

467
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 1: So she shows up in John's apartment. They've broken up.

468
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,679
Speaker 2: They were very on and off for many years, so

469
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,719
Speaker 2: they were on an off period when he had his

470
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 2: first date with Carolyn, and they kind of just get

471
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 2: back together because I guess the thing is the show

472
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 2: makes it feel like he hates her from the moment

473
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,520
Speaker 2: she comes back into his life. Yeah, but they were

474
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 2: together for such a long time and he got back

475
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 2: with her even though he'd already met Carolyn. So I

476
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 2: was like, give the girl a break.

477
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 3: But then you're also seeing like the footage of him

478
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 3: constantly sending Carolyn Flowers while he's with Daryl Hannah.

479
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're like, Okay, the man's the problem.

480
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 3: You're just not a good guy.

481
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 1: You're just bad as always. Yeah.

482
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 2: So Darlehnna, if anyone hasn't read it, wrote an essay

483
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,880
Speaker 2: for The New York Times, a brilliant essay exactly calling

484
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 2: out the show's behavior and yes, robutting everything, but also

485
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 2: saying it's really damaging not only to be judging up

486
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 2: this story, but she said she uses her fame in

487
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 2: things now because she's such an activist and she's an

488
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 2: environmentalist and all these things that she uses her fame,

489
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 2: and it's very damaging that way. I also thought it

490
00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 2: very classy of her not to say anything about the act,

491
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 2: not to say anything about dre Hemingway. Yeah, because obviously

492
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 2: it's not her fault.

493
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: She's just a good job.

494
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 3: And it must be so disheartening thinking like that era

495
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 3: of your life is like done in dusted, and there's

496
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 3: no way it could be like dug up, and even

497
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 3: if it is, like how would they do it? And

498
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 3: they did in like the most like wildest way. That's

499
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 3: so opposite of your character. Also the fact that she

500
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 3: was with them for so long and then like he

501
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 3: passed away, Like going through all of that, plus seeing

502
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 3: it play out on TV must have been so harmful.

503
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

504
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 2: And it's also like, I didn't dislike the character in

505
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 2: the show, but I can see why she was meant

506
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 2: to come across as the anti Carolyn Bessett.

507
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she was.

508
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 3: Meant to hate her so you could love Carolyn Moore.

509
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And so that's why they have her like

510
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 2: using his family and wooms to smoke crack, showing up

511
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: to the set and actually everything she did, I was

512
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 2: a bit like, she came to support you, She came

513
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 2: to she came.

514
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 3: To do that coming out on the balcony.

515
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and she was really She's like, I didn't

516
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: I did not go to Jackie's Week uninvited. Apparently Jackie

517
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,239
Speaker 2: Kenny didn't even have a problem with her, So they

518
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 2: really kind of that. What I thought was interesting of

519
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 2: love story is in some ways it's so progressive and

520
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 2: in some ways it's so aggressive because it wants you

521
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: to be on Carolyn Bessett's side so much and to

522
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 2: see her as this hero in this story. And to

523
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,679
Speaker 2: do that, the show makes every other woman very unlikable,

524
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: woman around her very unlikable and like an antagonist to her,

525
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: like we see in the Calvin Kleines showroom at the

526
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 2: start where there's the other her seat, like the person

527
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 2: who's seen you to her, like sort of calling her

528
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 2: out and like making her life difficult at work. And

529
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 2: then she shows her up in front of Calvin Klein.

530
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: It's like a win for her.

531
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: And then even with Carolyn Kennedy, who's played by Grace

532
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 1: Gummer and is so good in this, like, they also

533
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: make her more of an antagonist to Carolyne. And then

534
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: Daryl Hannah.

535
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: Is also that like they've made her this caricature of

536
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: a spoilt blonde actress.

537
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 1: That's so true, So they'd they've made.

538
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 2: Every woman around her a villain except for Laura and

539
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 2: her sister. And that is because obviously we go into

540
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: it knowing that she passes away at the end with

541
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,400
Speaker 2: her they deal it with Jackie Kennedy.

542
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 3: What amazing also.

543
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: Because they also some people have said she's not great.

544
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: I'm like I thought she was.

545
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 3: I thought she was amazing. But I also did it

546
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 3: and I was gonna talk about this later with like

547
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 3: the friendship stuff. In a few episodes, she has like

548
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,719
Speaker 3: this best friend at work and she's in the opening

549
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 3: scene where then they elevated together talking about dating and

550
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: sex and stuff, and she's like a Asian woman of color,

551
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 3: like shorter than Karlyn, and like that was part of

552
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 3: the show where like she was talking about like dating

553
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 3: and like how a guy wouldn't call her back, and

554
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 3: Karlyen's like, you're beautiful, You're beautiful, and then like that's

555
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 3: all we saw of her. Women of color, She's just

556
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 3: like every other girl.

557
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 2: They're really trying to build her up as ups Darryl

558
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 2: Hannah the villain when John killed her dog, which really happened,

559
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 2: by the way, that really happened. So in the show

560
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 2: it shows the dog Hank, all right, p Hank. It

561
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 2: chose Hank getting off the leash in Tribeca. It actually

562
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: happened in Central Park. John did let go of the leash,

563
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 2: the dog did get hit by car, and he did

564
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 2: have the dog cremated, and he did fly with the

565
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 2: dog's ashes to Daryl Hannah where she was in La

566
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: to have a funeral. And then afterwards in one of

567
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: the books, the many books that John's friends wrote about him.

568
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: They said that he was furious with Daryl because his

569
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 2: mom took a turn for the worst while he was

570
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: in LA with her, so he had to fly back

571
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 2: quickly to New York. And he was like, I can't

572
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 2: believe that she made me come to a dog's funeral.

573
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 2: My mom's got cancer. And the friends were like, but

574
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: you killed her dog. Also like, so it's actually the

575
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 2: least you could do with it.

576
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: And then another dog like a few days later, Yeah, Friday.

577
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: The dogs of this the dogs of this story would

578
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: have a lot to.

579
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 3: Which I heard. Then he named the dog Friday, And

580
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 3: I don't know why I have this front fact to

581
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 3: my head. He named the dog Friday because it was

582
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: the only day of the week he could bring his

583
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: dog to work.

584
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 1: Wow. When he was working at the he the magazine

585
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 1: he owned, Yeah.

586
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 3: His own workplace.

587
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 2: He's such a simple boy. At the end of the day,

588
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 2: he was just really just just getting through life. So

589
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 2: after the death of Jackie, we see Carolyn and John

590
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 2: come back together and really start their romance. And this

591
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: is again one of my favorite parts. Before like it

592
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: got out that they were dating. That scene with a

593
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: cocktail party and he walks past and puts an olive

594
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: in her hand.

595
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: He keeps going, it's.

596
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 2: Really the only time that man is sexy. The rest

597
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 2: of the time he's just a bit of a goof.

598
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god. It was really nice. And I when

599
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: he comes to her apartment, yeah, like it was was

600
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: a raining.

601
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: Or did I just assume, well, well it was raining metaphorica.

602
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 3: And she and he was like having like a panic attack,

603
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: and she puts her hand on his heart, yeah, breath,

604
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 3: And I was like, and then I was sitting there

605
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 3: watching it and I'm going, it's gonna be okay.

606
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: Job, You're like, I would also be very soothed. And

607
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: Carol Lombersett was helping me through a panic attack.

608
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 3: And you know what I love most about them? Great

609
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: high ratio. Oh yes, perfect.

610
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: They can hit each other in the eyes. But he's

611
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 2: like slightly taller, but not much.

612
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 3: And when she wears heels are like the same height.

613
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: I only dream of that with him being able to

614
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: look slightly off. What's that like? You were like, not

615
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: how having to like stream time? Yeah, oh my god,

616
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: I can never be Yeah, our heigh ratios are really off.

617
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: So then we get more in depth into their relationship.

618
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: And he also takes her to Hyannas, which is the

619
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 2: big Kennedy family compound, which is a very I mean

620
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: here I am telling you Kennedy facts and these are

621
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: your people. That compound is a real place. And having

622
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: that quiz at the table was a very famous Kennedy

623
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: tradition that all the families do, but in particular Ethel

624
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 2: Kennedy would have that quiz of like current affairs and

625
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: politics and everything.

626
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: So and it.

627
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 3: Also shows how strong the women in the Kennedy family are,

628
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 3: Like both Ethel Kennedy and Jackie Kennedy married into that

629
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: family and they just became the Kennedys.

630
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean their husbands are with the sustains.

631
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 3: But like the fact that like it just feels like

632
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 3: they've been there for that whole life. Yes, And it's

633
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 3: like they had to learn really quickly. And I think

634
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 3: that's what they wanted from their children. That's why they

635
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 3: had so much pressure on their children to find a

636
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 3: partner who came from like a quote unquote ordinary life

637
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 3: so they could be built into the Kennedy family where

638
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 3: Kennedy can be their whole thing. I think that's why

639
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 3: they also didn't like John dating like actresses and stuff,

640
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: because she didn't want anyone who has already had their

641
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: own power to come into the fan exactly.

642
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 2: There's that whole thing of like you have to be

643
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 2: almost like nothing beforehand so then you can become a Kennedy.

644
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: That's why when Taylor Swift was dating a Kenny, remember that.

645
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: But when she was dating Bond, she dated Connor Kennedy,

646
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 2: one of like the new the new wave of Kennedy,

647
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, girl, get out of there. She's two

648
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: blonde women around that family traditionally have like quite a

649
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: bad time. And also Origin telling Taylor Swift that she

650
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: has to not be tell us off, she has to

651
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 2: be Taylor Kennedy. She wouldn't have handled that, So it's

652
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: always for the best.

653
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 3: But the compound thing is, I think when you first

654
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 3: start to see, oh, he's actually quite a bad boyfriend.

655
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so people have been very angry about that.

656
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 3: I'm so angry. I was like tallying up how many

657
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: times I would have broken up with it.

658
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: I'm not.

659
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: I think there was about like, oh, just the weekend alone,

660
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 3: probably eight.

661
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, when he's not getting her a lot of information

662
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: until they're actually arriving at the destination. I was like, sorry,

663
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: what is this crazy rich Asians where you don't tell

664
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: your girlfriend what she's walking until until she's actually there. Men, prepare,

665
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: you've got a crazy rich family who notoriously treats people badly,

666
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: Like let the girl know before him what she's walking into.

667
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't fight with her after about it. He's like,

668
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: I like that we're not allowed to watch TV. And

669
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 3: she's like, that's fine, but tell me we're not allowed

670
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: to watch TV.

671
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would just been walking on eggshells. So a

672
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: lot of people are upset about the breakfast thing, not

673
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 2: signing her up for breakfast.

674
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,239
Speaker 3: And his name was on the breakfast thing.

675
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: Well, he said he didn't want to wake her up

676
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: a but also why did he wake me up?

677
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 3: Wake me up?

678
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: Oh, just let you know what's happening.

679
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: So imagine because in that moment where she's like wandering

680
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: through the house and like just those three terrifying women

681
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: are sitting.

682
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: There not even there.

683
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: Imagine.

684
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine waking up in a strange house full of

685
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: people who are judging you, and you know that you're

686
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: essentially auditioning to be in the family this weekend and

687
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: being left with no clue of like what the protocol is,

688
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: what you should be doing, and then you're guys off

689
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: being dragged behind a boat.

690
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, absolutely foul behavior. I I'm not even joking.

691
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 3: I broke out into a cold sweat at their dinner

692
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: party table when Ethel started asking political questions and everyone

693
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 3: knew the answers except Corc.

694
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: So they changed it slightly.

695
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: So apparently in real life, the first time Carolyn went,

696
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: Ethel asked her about what she thought of the assault

697
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: rifle band potential band, and she apparently didn't answer fast

698
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 2: enough because she was quite nervous, and then she is, well,

699
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: maybe you should look.

700
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: It up, deer.

701
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: But apparently they became like quite close in the years

702
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 2: after that, and that scene of like Carolyn going to

703
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: Ethel and saying that she doesn't know how she'll quote

704
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: with being and Kennedy wife really happened, and they would

705
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: have these visits. But the first time she went to

706
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: visit her, apparently she brought a friend and Ethel's like,

707
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: what are you two yet to face me alone?

708
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: I'm terrified Jesus.

709
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: But I was like, I think you have to, I

710
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: think to marry into the cursed Kennedy family. You have

711
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 2: to it's like sink or swim. You have to become

712
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 2: like that tough too.

713
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 3: And like she had to take a scarf off, and

714
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: I'm like, the scarff made the outfit.

715
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: I was just sitting there in a full jacket and

716
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: she's gonna like bare shoulders and she's like, are you cold?

717
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: Like she's literally the only one who doesn't have a

718
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: jacket on.

719
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously she's cold.

720
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: So it looks like from that moment that they're going

721
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: to break up, but instead John proposers, Yeah, what did

722
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: you think of the proposal scene?

723
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: Firstly, that boat area, I get C six or maybe

724
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: I riding like.

725
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: Okay, so no one proposed to Emily on a boat.

726
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 3: That boat it was like a little rickety kind of thing,

727
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh my god, they're really like moving

728
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: with the ocean on that boat, like I would.

729
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: Your thought during the proposal.

730
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 3: Scene, well, the way he like framed it, he was

731
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,239
Speaker 3: like my mom used to love coming here. I'm like,

732
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 3: you're nowhere? Where are you?

733
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: Well, no, they're in the off the That's a beautiful

734
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: area that you can only access if you own one

735
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: of those multi No, it's like a beautiful area of

736
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: Massachusetts that you can only access if you own one

737
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: of those like beautiful billion dollar compound mansion.

738
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 3: Well, congrats if you have that, I don't want it.

739
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: You don't want to go looked it looked.

740
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: Not my they live in New York, I would.

741
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: Have been, Yeah, when you live in New York, you

742
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: don't have like that many if they can't go to

743
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: the Hampton's or anywhere like that crowded.

744
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 3: I think I would. I think Carolyn, yeah, would have

745
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: preferred being proposed to in the apartment.

746
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: Potentially, Yes, anyway, glad she said, not yet so in

747
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: real life.

748
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: Again, his friends and her friends down have biography. As

749
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: they've written, those people should not be complaining about a

750
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: TV show, is all I'm going to say on that,

751
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: because a lot of them were very happy to spill

752
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: their guys.

753
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: They would have minted it from Yeah, I mean.

754
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: All their friends.

755
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: Obviously just a small group of people that have written books.

756
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: But there's quite a lot of sore stories out there

757
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: that have been given by their friends and family, and

758
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: like his former assistant and people who she used to

759
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: work with, a Calvin Klein, they've all told all the

760
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: stories and so apparently he did.

761
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't Jackie's ring that he proposed with. It was

762
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: a new ring.

763
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 3: I love that ring.

764
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: Oh, with the kind of all the stories and everything

765
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: in the year.

766
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 3: It was really it was so hurt because she doesn't

767
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 3: wear jewelry.

768
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: Actually, such a cool guy, I know I could never

769
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: I've got ten rings on like you doing all the time.

770
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: I need them to mask me. So apparently he did

771
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: say to her, fishing is better with a partner. Will

772
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: you be my partner? That's how he proposed to her,

773
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: and she said, and she's.

774
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 3: Like, I don't eat fish.

775
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: Apparently allegedly she said I'll have to think about it

776
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: and then waited three weeks.

777
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: Can you blame her? A weird proposal?

778
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: So, but not not even that I think she was.

779
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the proposal. I think at that stage,

780
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: if you be with that guy that you're like, that's

781
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: just how John talks Crazy John. Instead of saying, will

782
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: you marry me? I love you?

783
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 3: You know what, John would have loved what ai Oh.

784
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: My god, gentleman, I love He would have been like, hey, Caroline,

785
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: it's me with a hat.

786
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: Caroline would be like, okay, job, that's so great that

787
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: silly boy. I love him so much, such a fun boy.

788
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: But you know that's fine. But so she could take it.

789
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: I feel it. I think she was fully across as bullshit.

790
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: And apparently her saying I have to think about it

791
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: just made him even more intensely want to marry her.

792
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,959
Speaker 3: So for three like the one woman who doesn't want him.

793
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

794
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: When people like she's not playing, It's like, yeah, exactly,

795
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: she's not playing. That's why he likes it, because she

796
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 2: was like, I'll walk away from this and so, which

797
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 2: leads us to the big fight scene in the park

798
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: and the streets. Have you seen the real life photos

799
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: of this?

800
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: Yes?

801
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 3: And I'm obsessed.

802
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: Yes, So the fight scene, the photos of that are

803
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: while the real life photos and video I.

804
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 3: Think when I first saw the real life photos and

805
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: video because I saw the photos before the show, right

806
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: when they were starting to go viral, as like the

807
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: show was picking.

808
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: Out because they just filmed.

809
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: They filmed all around New York, so people were just

810
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: filming them, like people who just like, Hey, I'm on

811
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 2: my launch break and I think they're filming a TV

812
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: show and it would just be the Love Story.

813
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 3: Cast and it was literally the Love story cast, and

814
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 3: they could easily tell what was going on because they

815
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 3: were wearing the exact same outfit. And I think that

816
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 3: was when when they first started filming, everyone was like,

817
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 3: I wonder how they're going to do the fight scene,

818
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 3: and I was like, what's this fight scene? And I

819
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 3: looked it up, and seeing something so physical from people

820
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: who you've never even heard speak before is so wild.

821
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: Those photos of them having the fight, which when of course,

822
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 2: just went everywhere and.

823
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 3: Was tied up and then she took it out and

824
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: whipped it and then tied it.

825
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: Back up, and how she like runs after him, and

826
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: like at one sage, they're both just screaming at full

827
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: pace at each other. So I'm like there was no conversation.

828
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: They were just both screaming and they're.

829
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: Like start tackling each other, yeah, and hera rigging off

830
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: her yeah, and then he's looking so sad on.

831
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: The They famously had that fight all through New York,

832
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: so they were at the park and they had it

833
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: there and like apparently they just did not care. There

834
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: was so there's so many accounts of people from that

835
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: day who have talked about it and they were just

836
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: like they were just screaming at each other like they

837
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 2: just it's like they completely forgot where they were. And

838
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: then they fought all the way down the street and

839
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: then then he sat on the edge of the street

840
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: in the gutter and they were still fighting. So in

841
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: the show they made it about her not accepting his

842
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: proposal and their like potential marriage and all their differences,

843
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: and it was they used the fight as a catalyst

844
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: to have them finally become engaged.

845
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they were already engaged at the actual.

846
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: Fight, right, yes, And so in the actual fight in

847
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: real life, they were already engaged. And allegedly what the

848
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: fight was thanks to all these friends who have given

849
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: Tellow's a ludily, what the fight was about is like

850
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: she was yelling at him that he never stands up

851
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 2: for himself, because what had happened was they had gone

852
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 2: to a friend's wedding and they were put at the

853
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: table next to a New York Times journalist who was

854
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: there covering it for the New York Times. Do you

855
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: know if you have a high society wedding, you can

856
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: get it covered by the New York Times.

857
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: It's a big deal.

858
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: And they come to the event and like write about it,

859
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: and so they were like they got there and they

860
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: were really shocked. They were at this particular table and

861
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: the New York Times journalist was next to John. And

862
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: then afterwards, apparently Carolyn got really upset because she thought

863
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: it was a shitty move to use them for more

864
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: publicity by their friend. And then she apparently wanted John

865
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: to say something and call out their friends for using

866
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: them for publicity and being like, oh, we'll get so

867
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: much more space than the New York Times if the

868
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 2: person the journalist sits next to John F. Kennedy Junior,

869
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 2: and she had been begging him to be out of

870
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: the spotlight more and then he wouldn't say anything to

871
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: the friends. This is all like what people said later on,

872
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: And so she was screaming at him for like basically

873
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 2: not looking after their relationship and not standing up for

874
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: them to this friend who would use them for publicity.

875
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 3: Which is so fair. But I also feel like John F. Kennedy,

876
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 3: all he would have known from his whole life is

877
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 3: like friends using him. Yeah, And also he's a man,

878
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 3: and men are like I know, like Dave's a bit

879
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 3: of an asshole and he's really mean and he's super

880
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 3: problematic but he's been my friends into kindyaden, So what

881
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: are you gonna do?

882
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: That's just what he does, classic Daves.

883
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 3: So he's got like the mix of being Kennedy plus

884
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 3: being a man.

885
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was really great for him.

886
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 3: But that like fight, like the real fight, if that's

887
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: really the catalyst, is like the whole overarching storyline of

888
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: their love story. And I think Caroline Kennedy in the

889
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 3: show says it really well how he wanted her because

890
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 3: she didn't want this life. Yeah, and now you're mad

891
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 3: at her for the still not wanting it, Yeah, exactly,

892
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: and like he was just so annoying towards the end.

893
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: Then we get.

894
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: Into the wedding itself, which again I don't really remember

895
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: coverage at the Times as a child, but I've since

896
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,240
Speaker 2: wrote about it, and apparently the world was beyond shocked

897
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 2: when that first wedding photo got rich because I think

898
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: it was like a week later. Yeah, they couldn't believe

899
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: that they had pulled off this secret wedding on the island.

900
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: What did we think of that? In the build up

901
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: and the whole the secrecy of it.

902
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 3: I loved it. Yeah, I love the secret wedding like

903
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 3: it's those kind of scenes that I love creative people.

904
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: I'm like, I love how you took this one bit

905
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 3: of information and just ran with it. Similar to the

906
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 3: fight paparazzi photos, Like they looked at every single paparazzi

907
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 3: photo from that fight and incorporated into the actual show.

908
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and had it all in there. So if you

909
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: had photographed the TV fight.

910
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 3: The photos would have looked exactly exactly the same, Like

911
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 3: them in the park, them sitting on the bench, them

912
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 3: sitting on the like gutter on the ground. Them hugging

913
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 3: at the end.

914
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did hug at the end.

915
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 2: That's really cute because nothing because they never gave interviews

916
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: about the wedding. They only ever released that one photo

917
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 2: later on. Obviously a few friends gave interviews about it.

918
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: This is like much. This is I think even after

919
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: their deaths when they were like writing books and stuff

920
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: about them, we didn't know much about the wedding. So

921
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 2: they had to really piece it together. One thing is

922
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 2: that she had Lauren and Carolyn, who her two maids

923
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 2: of honor.

924
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: But obviously the.

925
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 2: Show they had to sort of get the drama up

926
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: a little bit. But the designer and usisso gave an

927
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 2: interview the other day because they're like, did the dress

928
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 2: thing really happened. He's like, no, I just took Caroline

929
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: into the bathroom and we just zipped it up, and

930
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: she was fine. Because that's the whole thing where she's like,

931
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: if we leave now, maybe two hours late. I'm like,

932
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 2: why am I so stressed about this fake wedding?

933
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

934
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 1: Two hours late?

935
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 3: Two hours late? And like they were all like in

936
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 3: the heat, yeah, and like southern oh my god. But

937
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 3: the actual like scenery of it I think was done

938
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 3: really well. Like it was such a tiny little chapel

939
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 3: in the countryside and then the wedding only had like

940
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 3: thirty five people. Yeah, and the scene of them dancing

941
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 3: and they get like lifted in the air.

942
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

943
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: Because actually, I think years later some photos of their

944
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: actual wedding came out and she was wearing his jacket.

945
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: They were and they were having that much because.

946
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: There's that photo of her with his jacket on her

947
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 3: shoulders and she's like leaning into them.

948
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: Like, oh my god, Oh I know. It's so.

949
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: I think they were saying that one of the reasons

950
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: they had the whole plotline of it being two hours late,

951
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: one was to add like a little bit of drama.

952
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: But the second was because famously there's all candles in

953
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: the church because there's no electricity, and so they were

954
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: trying to explain why it could have looked like that,

955
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 2: but apparently it wasn't that dramatic. They didn't sleep on

956
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: the beach and have sex on the beach, so sad

957
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,479
Speaker 2: John made them sleep in separate rooms.

958
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: Actually they're like, he's very traditional, solid.

959
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: But also that's the kind of part where it's interesting,

960
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: is like obviously that little placard comes up before every

961
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: episode of like this is based on real people, but

962
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 2: it's a fictionalized version. But then like with as you're saying,

963
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: with the fight, there's some moments where it is to

964
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: the letter real life, and then sometimes they just do

965
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: completely make up make up things about it.

966
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 4: They like sprinkle some Emily Henry and they were like,

967
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 4: let's have them have sex on the beach, and let's

968
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: have Daryl Hannah be crazy, and they had had these

969
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 4: So then it makes it harder, I think, for people

970
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 4: to understand what's real and what's not when some parts

971
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 4: of it are completely fictionalized.

972
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: Yea, and intentionally so to make it more of a

973
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: love story.

974
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true. But I think when the show

975
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 3: started to get really dark for me, it was after

976
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 3: yeah wedding, where I think, like you even see, like

977
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 3: the tone completely changes where they're now back to their lives,

978
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 3: but now as a married couple, and he has so

979
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 3: many like high demands for his job working for The George,

980
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 3: which later got shut down after he died, so you

981
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: could tell from the beginning of the launch of the

982
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 3: magazine it was really only kept alive because his name

983
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 3: was attached to it essentially, and doing that while she

984
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: literally couldn't get a job because she was just being

985
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 3: hounded by paparazzi all the time. And I think the

986
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 3: more private she became, the more intense it got, until

987
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 3: she was just pretty much living in the house, like

988
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 3: in the loft in New York, which I found out

989
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: because I was so into real because that apartment's beautiful

990
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 3: rights like a beautiful loft. He bought it in nineteen

991
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 3: ninety four seven hundred thousand dollars. What when he died

992
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: it sold for two point five million, and now it's

993
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: doubled in price.

994
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: Wow, I bet we could have been living in a lot.

995
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 3: We could have been the oh my god. Anyway, that's

996
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: besides point.

997
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: That's the big takeaway from the show, how real estate

998
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: prices have blued over the last twenty years, and so

999
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: she was like stuck.

1000
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 3: In the loft going through extreme depression. All these headlines

1001
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 3: about how she is like crazy party girl, how she's

1002
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 3: addicted to drugs, how she has like all these fights

1003
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: with other Kennedy family members were going everywhere. What I

1004
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 3: really enjoyed was the scene with her and her sister

1005
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 3: at the cafe Yeah, where they're like trying to hide

1006
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 3: their faces with their hair but trying not to look

1007
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,479
Speaker 3: like they're showing any emotions in the conversation they're having.

1008
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 3: And the fact of her sister said Nane has been

1009
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: reading all of this in the news and she's like,

1010
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 3: why don't she just call me? And she's like, well,

1011
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 3: I feel like she thinks you're too famous to just

1012
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 3: be called.

1013
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also I think, actually, so fair, so fair, But.

1014
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 3: In reality, you're just seeing her in the house by herself,

1015
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 3: talking to no.

1016
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: One, yeah exactly.

1017
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: It's interesting because when I first kind of heard of

1018
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 2: Karleen Bessett was obviously after she had passed away. When

1019
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: I became an adult, my sort of had become this

1020
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 2: huge popular figure like the Zeitgeiston because but mostly because

1021
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: of her fashion. So I was always like, oh, people

1022
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: just loved her because she looked incredible and she was

1023
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: so stylish and and people were obsessed with their love story,

1024
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 2: which was true.

1025
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 1: But there definitely was a big.

1026
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: Moment in time there which had been forgotten in the

1027
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 2: last two decades after she became this bigger girl after

1028
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 2: her death that people did that, like the magazine articles

1029
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: and newspapers did write awful things about her. They were like,

1030
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: she's an ice princess. She's so cold, she's so difficult,

1031
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 2: she won't talk to anyone, she does nothing. She married

1032
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: and now she does nothing. Like that was a real

1033
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: story around.

1034
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: Her, and it's just so sad watching like that episodes

1035
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: after the wedding and comparing it to her character in

1036
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: the first episode where she was like top of her game,

1037
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 3: like loved her job, was going out every night, like

1038
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 3: cooking up with guys. I had this like tiny studio apartment,

1039
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 3: and how much she had to change herself to fit

1040
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: into like this new role as a Kennedian woman.

1041
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting, like there's almost like two different Carolines in

1042
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: the show, and obviously she goes. She says to John

1043
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: like I've changed everything in my life and you've changed nothing.

1044
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 2: But it's almost like in the first few episodes you

1045
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 2: see her as he saw her, Like it's almost like

1046
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: you're seeing the Carolyn threat. It's almost like the first

1047
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 2: part of the story is almost through his eyes, where

1048
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 2: she's like so sure of herself and so confident and

1049
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: like so like and like this mystery that will never

1050
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 2: be sold. And then it's like later on the show,

1051
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 2: you see that character through Carolyn's own eyes of like

1052
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 2: I'm insecure and I don't know what to do and

1053
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: my life is falling apart.

1054
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 3: And he's getting annoyed with it, and she's like, this

1055
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 3: is the same person, Like I wasn't a different person

1056
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 3: back then. You married the same person. Yeah, I'm just

1057
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 3: showing the side of me now. And what I thought

1058
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: was like a bit like icky but like quite clever

1059
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: showing the Princess Diana death. Yeah, And how they both

1060
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 3: reacted to that in such different ways, like Carolyn seeing

1061
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 3: like that could be me and John seeing like this

1062
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 3: is exactly what's been happening to my family, and like

1063
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 3: he knows that even though he loves being famous and

1064
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 3: love the cameras that like that's like the other side

1065
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 3: of it, Yeah, but not wanting to admit it to

1066
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 3: her because he doesn't want to freak her out.

1067
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, it's kind of like it's interesting again

1068
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: how they chose this to be their first big love story.

1069
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: The Ryan Murphy universe obviously is incredible love story, but

1070
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's mostly there's other very public love stories

1071
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 2: that are more kind of like that romancy type stuff,

1072
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: whereas this one is so mard with like tragedy and

1073
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: upset and as exactly so, then we're moving into like

1074
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: the last episode, and there's no official record that they

1075
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: were separated at the time of their deaths. A few

1076
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: people are given different accounts. Some people said that he

1077
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 2: was just staying at a hotel for a few nights.

1078
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: Someone else was like, no, no, he was at a

1079
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: party saying he was divorcing her, and then someone else

1080
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 2: was like a family friend of Carolyn's was like no, no,

1081
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: like they were working through it, they were living together,

1082
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: so we'll never actually, no, this is like the.

1083
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 3: Stuff that like annoys me, especially with their family still

1084
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 3: being very much like alive and well it's like, if

1085
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 3: none of that part about their relationship was true, this

1086
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 3: must be so heartbreaking to see. Yeah, it portrayed in

1087
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 3: a way that they were on the verge of a

1088
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 3: separation before they died, exactly.

1089
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 2: And that's that's overall the thinking about the show, Like

1090
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: I know you and I both love it, and like

1091
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: I've always thought Carolyn Bessett was incredible, and Darryl Hunter

1092
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 2: and all the women in this I've always thought were great,

1093
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 2: and so I'm watching it through that lens. But then

1094
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 2: there's also this thing in the back of my head

1095
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: is like Carolyn would hate this, Like she would absolutely

1096
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 2: hate that this show exists. She would hate that everyone's

1097
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: talking about it, she would hate that we were doing

1098
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 2: this podcast. She would hate everything about it, which is

1099
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: the other really hard thing. Sometimes there's public figures like

1100
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 2: actresses and things like that, who I know, no one

1101
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: likes having their own story taken away from them, but

1102
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: there's some who have put their stories out there. But

1103
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 2: she very carefully didn't put her story out there deliberately.

1104
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: Thing very deliberately.

1105
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: And so then we move into because I was always like,

1106
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: are they going to show their death or are they

1107
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 1: just gonna show like them kissing and they're like having

1108
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: their final kiss and then getting on that.

1109
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 3: I thought that too, because I'm like, I wouldn't put

1110
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 3: it past Ryan Murphy. Yeah, show a death.

1111
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: Well, I just thought because it was love story, maybe

1112
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 2: we wouldn't get into the aftermath of their deaths the

1113
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: way we did.

1114
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 3: It really shocked me because I'm watching this last episode.

1115
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: They're in the plane, so you get like from the

1116
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 3: start of the series where we see them getting on

1117
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 3: the plane and the plane like starts spiraling and then

1118
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 3: you don't really you don't see the crash at all.

1119
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1120
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 3: I think the last thing you see is like them

1121
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: sitting together and her like telling him to breathe. Ye again,

1122
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 3: I thought it would end there. Yeah, And it was

1123
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 3: only halfway through. And then at that point I was like, oh,

1124
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 3: I really don't want to be looking at everyone's grief. Oh.

1125
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 2: And this is the part where it really hit me

1126
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: because up until this you're just living in a bit

1127
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: of a New York girlf fantasy and then kind of

1128
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 2: like an intense marriage. But then it turns into this

1129
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 2: story of absolute family tragedy, which sadly is so much

1130
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: to do with the Kennedy family, and we get that

1131
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 2: incredible powerful scene between Carolyn's mother Anne played by Constant Zimmer,

1132
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 2: who is just if anyone hasn't watched Unreal or House

1133
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: of Cards or Agents of Shields.

1134
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: I mean, she's in heaps of stuff. I lover in that,

1135
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: you know.

1136
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 2: I once hung out with her on a film set

1137
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: in Canada with Constance for like two days, and then

1138
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: when she came to a Stray host a live podcast

1139
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: with her before I did this podcast, so I was like,

1140
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: my friend, Constance, you look at and she's she's such

1141
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: a good actress. And then Grace Gummer, I mean, of course,

1142
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: Grace Gumma is one of Meryl Streep's three powerhouse acting doors.

1143
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 3: When I see Grace Gummer on screen, I'm like, that's

1144
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 3: my whole Streap incarnated.

1145
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: Isn't it.

1146
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: But also her sisters Louisa and Mammy are also so

1147
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: Meryl Strop just gave birth and there's a boy, but

1148
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: we don't talk about him as much.

1149
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: Meryl Strip just.

1150
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: Gave birth to three versions of herself. Yeah, three versions

1151
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: of herself. Her were all incredible actresses. So watching Grace

1152
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: Gummer and Constant Zima have that emotional scene across the

1153
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: table in Carolyn and John's apartment is so incredible, also

1154
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: slightly fictionalized, but at this point in time, I'm almost

1155
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: like I just have them, letting almost all the real.

1156
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: Life stuff go.

1157
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I thought it was really powerful how Karen's

1158
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 2: mother was talking about Carolyn being blamed for everything, because

1159
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 2: that is what happened to the point where there was

1160
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: a hairstylist sitting next to her in the salon when

1161
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 2: she was getting her nails do before she went on

1162
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: the plane, who gave.

1163
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: A tell all interview.

1164
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: This is what I mean, like everyone was so wanting

1165
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 2: to talk about them, This is why we have all

1166
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: this information. And she said that Karen was like very

1167
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 2: visibly flustered and upset, and she did get her nails

1168
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: painted three different times, and she said her phone kept ringing,

1169
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 2: and she kept getting more intense about answering the phone

1170
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 2: and saying, like I said, I was getting a pedicure.

1171
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: The more you call me, the longer it's going to take.

1172
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 2: So then that story just went everywhere, and then she

1173
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 2: was being blamed for the plane crash. And look, we're

1174
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: not getting into who was at fault for the plane crash,

1175
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 2: but obviously the official report of why the plane went

1176
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: down is spatial disorientation, which is like in the haze

1177
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 2: and light, not knowing what's up and down and the.

1178
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 3: Which is like a real thing, especially for inexperience.

1179
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: Well, that's the.

1180
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 2: Thing because there's information that's come out that he hadn't

1181
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 2: clocked enough hours the flight instructor was supposed to be

1182
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: with him, that he couldn't read the instruments properly yet

1183
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: that's why he had to rely on like visual cues

1184
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: of like to fly the plane.

1185
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: So a lot of like red flags.

1186
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 3: And it's also like one of those things where I'm like,

1187
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 3: this is like what happens when rich people can do

1188
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 3: whatever they want. Yeah, because like any other person and

1189
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 3: my dad used to be a pilot, any other person

1190
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 3: like that wouldn't even be allowed, Like they wouldn't even

1191
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 3: be there to take off. And the fact that in

1192
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 3: like obviously it would have been different in real life,

1193
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 3: but in the show they portrayed as that not even

1194
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 3: being a bigger issue.

1195
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, they all just get in the plane and he

1196
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 2: like flies, I know what she does, say where's the

1197
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 2: flight instructor? And it's like I told him not to

1198
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: come and like in knowing what's going to happen. Watching that,

1199
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 2: it's like watching the start of a horror movie is

1200
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: like watching Final Destination, being like, don't get on the plane.

1201
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 2: Everything about this is going to go wrong. And he

1202
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,959
Speaker 2: was held to account a little bit because Carolyn's mother

1203
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: sued his estate for wrongful death and they ended up

1204
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 2: settling out of court for allegedly like a huge amount

1205
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 2: of money because basically she was like, this man's reckless

1206
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 2: actions cost me both my daughters, and so she wanted compensation,

1207
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 2: and so that she ended up.

1208
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: Like suing his estate.

1209
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: Wow, and from what we know, like getting quite a

1210
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: huge sum of money.

1211
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I did really enjoy that conversation that

1212
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 3: they had across the table. Yeah, but I just and

1213
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 3: thely think that they should have ended at that point

1214
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: when they were in the plane.

1215
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess then that was so into that's the thing.

1216
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 2: You either had to end when they went up in

1217
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: the plane and have them just kind of soar into

1218
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: the sky and then a placard'd come up and say

1219
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: like Carolyn and John lost their lives on this day

1220
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 2: in Yeah, watching them on the plane was a lot,

1221
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: and then maybe have a montage of them but I

1222
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: also think like once you were you maybe needed to

1223
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 2: see the grief of the family and see like their

1224
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: bodies were cremated and they were throwing off the side

1225
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 2: of the ship into the waters near Martha's vineyard, and

1226
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 2: so all of that was like what really happened. And

1227
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 2: I guess it was a way for them to have

1228
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 2: that final like footage of John and Carolyn sitting in

1229
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 2: the area that you don't want to go to got

1230
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 2: emily their final restue.

1231
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 3: That was much nicer than being in the boat.

1232
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, sitting upon in that area and sort of seeing

1233
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: them as if like now they live here in eternity,

1234
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: these two people who were so in love and like

1235
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 2: this is their story. And that's why having Constant Zimmer's

1236
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: voice over of like, do not come to my grave,

1237
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 2: I do not die my story that that classic palm

1238
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 2: kind of to show that they do they have lived forever,

1239
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 2: which in a way they have, you know, at least

1240
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: in like culture and conversation and history and all those things.

1241
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 2: It was kind of a way I guess they were like,

1242
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 2: there's no happy way to end the story because it

1243
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: doesn't have a happy ending. So instead we'll just show

1244
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 2: them as if they're stuck in this place forever, like

1245
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 2: young beautiful and a love forever, in this untouched place.

1246
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 2: But it was a lot. I was very emotional in

1247
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 2: that last eye.

1248
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, goh, I cried so much, not even just.

1249
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 2: Have their death, which is very sad. I think watching

1250
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,479
Speaker 2: Grace Gummer as Carolyn and just the thought of losing

1251
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: a sibling.

1252
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 3: And just the thought that like, she's still alive and.

1253
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 2: Is very much and is still recovering from her daughter's death,

1254
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 2: and this TV show came out.

1255
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, what are you gonna do?

1256
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: Well?

1257
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing about being a Kennedy, right,

1258
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 2: That's always been the high and the low is that

1259
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 2: they have so much money and access and power, and

1260
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: with that they also have well the Kennedy curse and

1261
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 2: they and also this idea that everyone that family, their

1262
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: life has been public fodder. Yeah when they were born.

1263
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's an interesting thing. But overall, I mean,

1264
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 2: I know Caroline would.

1265
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 3: Have hated this show, but we hated this show. Yeah,

1266
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 3: But what do you think that that season is going

1267
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 3: to be?

1268
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1269
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 2: I think it's been reported that it's going to be

1270
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Taylor, but that's only a rumor.

1271
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: I think I think they've got a bit more one

1272
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: and like.

1273
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 3: My you know how I want who Zach Efron and

1274
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 3: Vanessa Hudgens.

1275
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: I think I mean never say never with Ryan Murphy,

1276
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: never say never. He'll be like who can I get?

1277
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 1: Naomi WA's and Greece scummy. There's two big star players

1278
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: in this now.

1279
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 2: But interesting that they have said that, like they're gonna

1280
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: do more seasons of love Story, They're gonna pick more

1281
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: iconic love stories. I heard one of the producers the

1282
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 2: other day say on a red carpet when they were

1283
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 2: doing some promo for it, that they wanted to be

1284
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 2: a story that no one expects, which is why I

1285
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:55,240
Speaker 2: don't think.

1286
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 3: It'll be.

1287
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 2: Maybe I reckon be someone. Also, the fact that they

1288
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: took out American means they've opened it up to other people.

1289
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 2: So I'm excited. But also, just make another not a

1290
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: spin off of her because the Carolin would hate it.

1291
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: But we just need more shows about eat girls in

1292
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,439
Speaker 2: New York living in messy apartments. I want so sick

1293
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 2: of rich older women who are married having to deal

1294
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 2: with murder. It's like that's all that's on TV now.

1295
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.

1296
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: Give me an et girl an apartment. This is why

1297
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 2: we still talk about sex and the city, because nothing

1298
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 2: has replaced it. So true, so love story, loved it,

1299
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: loved every second.

1300
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 3: I loved her, loved her amazing. Thank you so much

1301
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 3: for listening to the Spill today. Do not forget that

1302
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 3: our show Tomorrow Morning dropped at seven am. It's Morning Teeth,

1303
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 3: It's really really good. Make sure you tune in. The

1304
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 3: Spill is produced by Maniciatar and with video production by

1305
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 3: Michael Keane. And we will see you tomorrow.

1306
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: Bye bye