WEBVTT - The Biggest Try-Hards In Paris 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.727 that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to 0:00:23.767 --> 0:00:27.127 Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday's show where 0:00:27.167 --> 0:00:29.207 we take a break from the news cycle and we 0:00:29.327 --> 0:00:34.687 all exhale. Today is Friday, the second of August, about 0:00:34.687 --> 0:00:37.407 which I am not going to comment, And I am 0:00:37.407 --> 0:00:39.007 Holly Wainwright, I'm Mere. 0:00:38.807 --> 0:00:40.567 Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:40.567 --> 0:00:43.087 And on the show today, the Olympic village is full 0:00:43.127 --> 0:00:46.167 of losers in the nicest possible way. What can we 0:00:46.287 --> 0:00:49.007 learn about how to handle failure from the people who 0:00:49.127 --> 0:00:53.407 try the hardest. Plus, we're recommending a brand new fiction thriller. 0:00:53.807 --> 0:00:57.607 MIA's spotted a rising new talent, and Jesse's cooked something. 0:00:59.687 --> 0:01:00.887 Would we call it cooking? 0:01:02.047 --> 0:01:04.287 She wanted something up and she's recommending it to us. 0:01:04.647 --> 0:01:07.087 And in our best and Worse of the week, Jesse's 0:01:07.087 --> 0:01:10.527 strange stomach. MIA's house is full of estrogen again. And 0:01:10.647 --> 0:01:13.127 I had a feminist failure by the side of the road, 0:01:13.607 --> 0:01:15.367 but first me a freedman. 0:01:15.887 --> 0:01:18.567 In case you missed it, which you would have if 0:01:18.567 --> 0:01:21.047 you didn't listen to Monday's episode or you're not in 0:01:21.087 --> 0:01:23.807 the Outluders facebook group. There is a lot of debate 0:01:23.927 --> 0:01:27.407 about how to say the word gymnast. 0:01:26.767 --> 0:01:28.647 Jim nas gymnast. 0:01:29.167 --> 0:01:32.207 Is the a silent or is it emphasized? 0:01:32.527 --> 0:01:34.967 And I have heard commentators say it both ways. I 0:01:35.167 --> 0:01:38.127 have made the observation that the British seem to say 0:01:38.247 --> 0:01:41.167 gymnasts and the Americans seem to say gymnast. 0:01:42.447 --> 0:01:45.887 Babe? Is it gymnastics? Maybe if you're a key, we 0:01:46.007 --> 0:01:48.767 perhaps our fence QUEWI listeners. Maybe if you're a key, 0:01:48.767 --> 0:01:52.367 we perhaps it's gymnastics. But for most of us it's gymnastics. 0:01:52.727 --> 0:01:56.167 I don't agree. Do you know who would know? Shout 0:01:56.167 --> 0:01:58.847 out to out louder Trenor, whose son Jesse Moore is 0:01:58.887 --> 0:02:02.367 competing in the Games. Jesse is the only man in 0:02:02.407 --> 0:02:08.807 the artistic gymnastics men's situation representing Australia. So good on, Jesse. 0:02:08.927 --> 0:02:10.367 We have an out louder in the Olympics. 0:02:10.647 --> 0:02:14.767 We do anyway. We asked Trenor, who's right me or Jesse. 0:02:15.087 --> 0:02:19.527 Here's what she said, Hi, there, Mia, Holly and Jesse. 0:02:19.887 --> 0:02:23.887 I'm Trenor Moore, mother of Jesse Moore. Male gymnast and 0:02:24.047 --> 0:02:27.807 I hear your debating how to say gymnasts, Jesse. 0:02:27.887 --> 0:02:31.887 What do you think, Ah, I think it's gymnast with 0:02:31.927 --> 0:02:34.767 an AA. I don't think it's really a debate really, 0:02:36.087 --> 0:02:39.447 So then you've heard it from the gymnast himself. 0:02:40.127 --> 0:02:41.927 Do you know our out louder who won our books, 0:02:41.927 --> 0:02:44.087 our signed books because she's so lucky, because she was 0:02:44.207 --> 0:02:46.647 listening to us in the most interesting place, and she 0:02:46.727 --> 0:02:49.487 was listening to us in Antarctica with the penguins. Yeah, 0:02:49.607 --> 0:02:52.567 I asked her. She's called Sophie Counsel. I asked her 0:02:52.767 --> 0:02:54.287 because there was a picture of her in Antarctica with 0:02:54.287 --> 0:02:57.607 the penguins. I said, which of the hosts do the 0:02:57.607 --> 0:03:00.367 penguins agree with most often? Is it MEA? Is it Jesse? 0:03:00.527 --> 0:03:00.807 Is it me? 0:03:01.647 --> 0:03:04.007 And you know what she said? She said, the penguins 0:03:04.047 --> 0:03:06.567 would like to respectfully disagree with all of you and 0:03:06.567 --> 0:03:10.127 request more conversations about fish and we vero much. 0:03:11.847 --> 0:03:14.407 The story I can't stop thinking about this week concerns 0:03:14.407 --> 0:03:18.927 a man named Harry Garside. We watched him during what 0:03:18.967 --> 0:03:21.087 I reckon He might identify as one of the lowest 0:03:21.087 --> 0:03:24.647 moments of his life. Harry Garside is an Olympic boxer 0:03:24.727 --> 0:03:27.447 and in Tokyo he won a bronze medal, making him 0:03:27.447 --> 0:03:29.887 the first Australian to win a medal in boxing at 0:03:29.887 --> 0:03:32.687 the Olympics in more than thirty years. And this year 0:03:32.767 --> 0:03:35.367 Paris twenty twenty four was going to be his year. 0:03:35.687 --> 0:03:38.487 He wanted to be the first Australian to win an 0:03:38.567 --> 0:03:41.367 Olympic gold medal in boxing and he was in a 0:03:41.447 --> 0:03:44.567 very good position to win it. And then earlier this 0:03:44.647 --> 0:03:48.207 week he suffered a shocking defeat. This is what he 0:03:48.327 --> 0:03:52.407 said in a post match interview. Two decades dedicated to 0:03:52.487 --> 0:03:55.487 one dream, and it's over, just like that. The interviewer 0:03:55.487 --> 0:03:57.287 asked how he was feeling, and he said, I feel 0:03:57.287 --> 0:03:59.687 pretty numb right now. But I'm sure the next month 0:03:59.767 --> 0:04:02.647 or two will be quite challenging, quite hard. I fear 0:04:02.687 --> 0:04:04.887 that my mind will get the better of me. I 0:04:04.927 --> 0:04:07.167 feel like I've let myself down and I let a 0:04:07.207 --> 0:04:09.967 few people down. Mate. But what do you do? The 0:04:10.007 --> 0:04:12.607 interviewer asked a few more questions and he repeated that 0:04:12.647 --> 0:04:14.567 he was feeling like a failure right now and that 0:04:14.647 --> 0:04:16.567 he didn't even know what to say. He said, I 0:04:16.607 --> 0:04:18.767 know sportsmen are just meant to say the right things. 0:04:18.807 --> 0:04:21.207 But deep down inside, mate, I fear for what the 0:04:21.247 --> 0:04:23.927 next few months look like for myself. I'm sure there 0:04:23.927 --> 0:04:26.087 will be some dark times and I just have to 0:04:26.127 --> 0:04:28.727 prepare for that. Now. This is not the post match 0:04:28.807 --> 0:04:31.967 interview you usually hear. And he followed up with a 0:04:32.007 --> 0:04:35.247 post on his Instagram and here's what he said. 0:04:35.127 --> 0:04:37.207 Beating myself up for the past couple of hours and 0:04:37.207 --> 0:04:40.407 so forward, and had a couple of screams, a couple 0:04:40.447 --> 0:04:43.287 of cries, and then I went and got some food 0:04:43.287 --> 0:04:44.687 and I was eating a cookie, and I just had 0:04:44.687 --> 0:04:49.967 this realization that absolutely this sucks. Like we all hate failing, 0:04:50.047 --> 0:04:53.167 we all hate not succeeding, we all hate shooting for 0:04:53.207 --> 0:04:54.727 the stars and falling in our face. 0:04:54.847 --> 0:04:58.567 Absolutely, there's no genying that. But I had this realization 0:04:58.687 --> 0:05:01.047 that I went on a two decade journey to try 0:05:01.087 --> 0:05:03.567 and get that gold medal, and yes, I didn't get 0:05:03.567 --> 0:05:05.967 that gold medal, but I've become my own friend in 0:05:05.967 --> 0:05:08.447 that journey and being kind to myself. 0:05:09.247 --> 0:05:11.007 The side reminds us of is that there are more 0:05:11.007 --> 0:05:14.647 than ten thousand athletes inside that Olympic village, and most 0:05:14.727 --> 0:05:17.887 of those athletes will go home profoundly disappointed. They've trained 0:05:17.927 --> 0:05:20.567 their whole lives for a moment, and they probably lost. 0:05:21.087 --> 0:05:24.127 You don't get to that level without being fiercely competitive, 0:05:24.167 --> 0:05:26.047 and as much as we hear them say I'm just 0:05:26.127 --> 0:05:28.567 proud to be here and represent my country, the goal 0:05:28.927 --> 0:05:33.687 is to win. Did you find his words refreshing? Because 0:05:33.727 --> 0:05:36.087 I'm pretty confronting to listen to Holly, What did you think? 0:05:36.367 --> 0:05:38.087 I love that he said it. I particularly like that 0:05:38.127 --> 0:05:39.847 second quote where he said he felt better after he 0:05:39.887 --> 0:05:41.847 had eaten the cookie, because haven't we all been there. 0:05:42.247 --> 0:05:43.607 I thought the whole thing was going to be like 0:05:43.647 --> 0:05:45.607 and now I can eat cookies, and I was like, yeah, 0:05:46.007 --> 0:05:47.127 but that wasn't the point. 0:05:48.167 --> 0:05:51.047 I think it's really refreshing anytime you hear sports people 0:05:51.087 --> 0:05:53.487 being honest, because in order to be as focused as 0:05:53.487 --> 0:05:55.487 they have to be to get to where they are, 0:05:55.687 --> 0:05:59.367 they follow very narrow scripts, which is why, as you said, 0:05:59.407 --> 0:06:01.567 this is not what they normally say. So anytime they're 0:06:01.567 --> 0:06:03.847 going to be really honest, I love it. It always 0:06:04.007 --> 0:06:07.087 absolutely kills me at the end of football games, big finals, 0:06:07.087 --> 0:06:08.687 where you'll see all the men fall to the floor 0:06:08.727 --> 0:06:13.207 and cry like, it kills me because I don't agree 0:06:13.207 --> 0:06:15.887 with you that every one of those ten thousand athletes 0:06:15.887 --> 0:06:17.927 will be devastated when they don't walk out with gold. 0:06:18.007 --> 0:06:20.247 Most of them won't even be expecting to, not near 0:06:20.047 --> 0:06:22.687 the right. So there are ten thousand athletes there, there 0:06:22.687 --> 0:06:25.847 are about a thousand medals, so the odds are you're 0:06:25.847 --> 0:06:28.367 not going to get one, and the favorite's going into 0:06:28.487 --> 0:06:30.687 every single sport. We know who they are. They're the 0:06:30.687 --> 0:06:32.767 people whose names we know. They're the ones going to 0:06:32.847 --> 0:06:34.967 win the medals. Most of the other ones we don't 0:06:35.007 --> 0:06:37.967 know their names. If we think that the only point 0:06:37.967 --> 0:06:40.287 of the Olympic Games or any sporting endeavor is to 0:06:40.367 --> 0:06:43.207 win gold, then what are all those other people doing there? 0:06:43.287 --> 0:06:44.607 And I'm trying to win gold? 0:06:44.607 --> 0:06:46.847 I don't agree with that. I think there's an enormous 0:06:46.847 --> 0:06:51.527 amount of importance about trying, about participating, about like I don't. 0:06:51.567 --> 0:06:53.167 I think you've got to be there because you love 0:06:53.207 --> 0:06:55.127 what you do. They're all not going to win gold 0:06:55.167 --> 0:06:56.727 and they all know it, right, so why are they 0:06:56.807 --> 0:06:57.647 bothering otherwise? 0:06:57.767 --> 0:07:03.047 I think there's what you know is likely, but there's 0:07:03.047 --> 0:07:06.447 always hope, right because there are always upsets. Look at 0:07:06.447 --> 0:07:10.207 Steve Bradbury in the Winter Olympics when literally everybody fell 0:07:10.207 --> 0:07:13.447 down and he won gold. That's what makes the Olympics 0:07:13.447 --> 0:07:16.487 exciting because you never know. It all does come down 0:07:16.527 --> 0:07:18.167 to how things happen in the day, and. 0:07:18.367 --> 0:07:20.087 The reason we all know his name is because that's 0:07:20.087 --> 0:07:20.887 happened so rarely. 0:07:21.127 --> 0:07:24.687 It happens so rarely. You're right, it does happen, so really, 0:07:24.727 --> 0:07:26.967 But my point is that it does happen. So everybody's 0:07:26.967 --> 0:07:29.567 got the hope that they're going to be either Simone 0:07:29.567 --> 0:07:32.007 Biles or Steve Bradbury or somewhere in the middle. Like, 0:07:32.207 --> 0:07:35.487 I don't think anybody goes to the Olympics or any 0:07:35.567 --> 0:07:39.767 kind of competition or anything thinking that they won't win, 0:07:40.047 --> 0:07:42.887 or not trying to win and do their best and 0:07:42.967 --> 0:07:46.287 hoping beyond hope that somehow they'll be able to dig 0:07:46.327 --> 0:07:47.367 deep and pull something back. 0:07:47.447 --> 0:07:49.567 And in order to get there, they've won a lot. 0:07:49.727 --> 0:07:53.207 Yeah, every one of those ten thousand people, these are 0:07:53.247 --> 0:07:55.167 the best people in the world. And what they do. 0:07:55.687 --> 0:07:58.167 Focusing so intently only on the ones who went gold 0:07:58.207 --> 0:08:01.367 and saying everyone else there as a loser just entirely 0:08:01.407 --> 0:08:03.847 discounts why they're doing what they're doing. 0:08:03.887 --> 0:08:05.727 I disagree. Oh, I think they're doing it to win. 0:08:06.087 --> 0:08:08.687 I think that's what gets you through. That's what gets 0:08:08.687 --> 0:08:12.007 you through the inn early mornings, the pain, the sacrifice, 0:08:12.087 --> 0:08:15.447 the all of those things. The disappointments is that you've 0:08:15.487 --> 0:08:19.207 got this burning desire. You're not doing it for lolls. 0:08:19.287 --> 0:08:20.967 You want to win. You've got a hunger and a 0:08:21.007 --> 0:08:23.447 competitiveness that you and I, for example, don't have. 0:08:23.727 --> 0:08:27.127 And what we see as well is people who peak. 0:08:27.607 --> 0:08:31.087 And then there's always that decision, like saying Ian Thorpe, 0:08:31.287 --> 0:08:33.647 who competed in two thousand, right, And then there's a 0:08:33.647 --> 0:08:36.007 decision for anyone who's at the Ian thought level whether 0:08:36.007 --> 0:08:39.007 they go on to do another Olympics. And sometimes I 0:08:39.087 --> 0:08:40.647 go on and do another Olympics, and they have a 0:08:40.687 --> 0:08:44.207 Simone Bars experience, right, and they win gold again. And 0:08:44.367 --> 0:08:47.087 sometimes you watch someone who was top of their field 0:08:47.647 --> 0:08:49.687 now in the middle of their field, and you think 0:08:49.767 --> 0:08:52.767 even the winners have to experience fails. I like underdogs. 0:08:52.767 --> 0:08:54.447 I know I'm a bleeding heart, but I do like 0:08:54.527 --> 0:08:57.167 Simone Biles is amazing. But it's not even interesting to 0:08:57.247 --> 0:09:00.007 me that story because it's like, oh, she's amazing, She's 0:09:00.047 --> 0:09:00.487 gonna win. 0:09:00.567 --> 0:09:04.447 That's what's so ironic. She's come back in Paris as 0:09:04.927 --> 0:09:07.967 not quite an underdog, but pretty much ad and that 0:09:08.047 --> 0:09:10.247 was what was interesting about her dog because she said 0:09:10.687 --> 0:09:13.127 she was an underdog when she went to her first 0:09:13.287 --> 0:09:16.127 international competition, I think the world, when she was fifteen, 0:09:16.407 --> 0:09:19.327 and she said, every meet I've been to since, I've 0:09:19.327 --> 0:09:21.887 been expected to win. So she hasn't been an underdog 0:09:21.967 --> 0:09:27.167 since until now. Again where it's like she completely wiped 0:09:27.167 --> 0:09:30.207 the slate clean by what happened in Tokyo for herself 0:09:30.207 --> 0:09:32.607 as much as everybody else, and she almost got that 0:09:32.647 --> 0:09:35.247 redemption story that you're right, it wasn't boring anymore. That's 0:09:35.247 --> 0:09:37.327 why we got a docco about sim Biles and everyone 0:09:37.367 --> 0:09:38.087 was watching. 0:09:37.967 --> 0:09:40.207 Winning, winning, winning, gold, gold, gold, like me. 0:09:41.007 --> 0:09:42.287 I guess the question though, it was like, what do 0:09:42.367 --> 0:09:45.927 we watch rid the race finishes, The race finishes, We 0:09:46.007 --> 0:09:49.487 don't follow the people who came sick into the locker room. 0:09:49.727 --> 0:09:51.807 We watched the podium and then we watched the winner, 0:09:51.967 --> 0:09:54.647 and they don't get the interviews. And the one that 0:09:55.007 --> 0:09:58.047 generally gets the interview gets the sponsors is all over 0:09:58.087 --> 0:10:00.407 every poster. If you've been around airports lately, it's like 0:10:00.447 --> 0:10:03.727 Arian Tipmas her face is everywhere. Harry Garside, his face 0:10:03.807 --> 0:10:06.687 was everywhere, and it's because they were gold medal hopefuls, right, 0:10:06.727 --> 0:10:10.087 And I've really been thinking about what the village looks 0:10:10.207 --> 0:10:12.647 like for people who You're right, Holly, there are some 0:10:12.687 --> 0:10:14.167 who would have been happy to be in a heat 0:10:14.247 --> 0:10:16.247 because you know your personal best and all that, but 0:10:16.287 --> 0:10:18.487 there are a lot of people where there have been upsets. 0:10:18.887 --> 0:10:21.727 And strangely, around the same time as I saw this 0:10:21.887 --> 0:10:25.367 Harry Garside clip which has since gone viral, I opened 0:10:25.407 --> 0:10:28.607 a newsletter that I subscribed to by Kate Lever and 0:10:28.887 --> 0:10:31.607 the headline was what I Do when I'm Sad? And 0:10:31.647 --> 0:10:34.487 I clicked so fast because I'm always fascinated by this, 0:10:35.047 --> 0:10:37.887 and she wrote about putting on a playlist called Dramatic 0:10:37.927 --> 0:10:40.607 Girlies that has music from Taylor and Lana del Rey, 0:10:40.967 --> 0:10:44.287 or having a shower cry. I've been thinking, you know, 0:10:44.847 --> 0:10:48.247 we're talking about an Olympian. You've just lost, your dreams 0:10:48.247 --> 0:10:51.287 are shattered. What do you do? What do you two 0:10:51.407 --> 0:10:53.727 do when you're sad, when you've had like a shit 0:10:53.847 --> 0:10:57.487 day and when you're feeling like you're absolute lowest. What 0:10:57.607 --> 0:10:58.007 do you do? 0:10:58.527 --> 0:11:02.487 There's two ways to approach it. One is to lean 0:11:02.527 --> 0:11:05.407 into the sadness and just really go with it and 0:11:05.487 --> 0:11:10.207 play sad music. Have a shower. Cry music is the 0:11:10.247 --> 0:11:13.047 thing that will make me like it's almost like marinating 0:11:13.087 --> 0:11:16.607 in my sadness or turning up the volume in my sadness. 0:11:16.807 --> 0:11:19.927 Sometimes what sad music will do is let me access 0:11:20.167 --> 0:11:22.967 crying and my sadness more because I just I'm like, 0:11:22.967 --> 0:11:25.527 I'm just going to really feel it. Yeah, And then 0:11:25.567 --> 0:11:27.967 the other way is going, okay, how do I cheer 0:11:27.967 --> 0:11:30.487 myself up? And so they are two very different approaches 0:11:30.767 --> 0:11:33.007 to when you're feeling sad. 0:11:33.407 --> 0:11:34.727 And what do you do to cheer yourself up? I 0:11:34.767 --> 0:11:36.527 feel like I need to get myself out of a funk, 0:11:36.647 --> 0:11:37.207 like what do you do? 0:11:37.807 --> 0:11:41.767 I will go to Westfield I used to sadly I 0:11:41.807 --> 0:11:45.247 don't anymore. Going online never makes me feel happy, but 0:11:45.327 --> 0:11:49.087 I will because what I reach for is distraction and 0:11:49.167 --> 0:11:51.447 that's not necessarily the best thing, because sometimes the best 0:11:51.447 --> 0:11:54.687 way through sadness is through it, not around it or 0:11:54.847 --> 0:11:57.847 burrowing underneath it or trying to jump over it. You've 0:11:57.887 --> 0:11:59.607 just got to go through it. And I think that 0:11:59.647 --> 0:12:05.567 distraction will be my go to. I will often be 0:12:05.727 --> 0:12:08.687 with my dogs because there's something very sort of I 0:12:08.727 --> 0:12:12.247 don't know, Yeah, you can cry into a dog. Quite 0:12:12.247 --> 0:12:15.407 will being with Luna helps me a lot. I think 0:12:15.447 --> 0:12:19.287 about the spiritual rest of being around someone who just 0:12:19.327 --> 0:12:21.807 gives you pure joy. And I was going to say, 0:12:21.807 --> 0:12:23.527 because she doesn't need anything from me, but she needs 0:12:23.527 --> 0:12:26.567 so much because she's a baby. But it's like, you 0:12:26.687 --> 0:12:30.927 have to be very present. You can't be super self indulgent, 0:12:31.287 --> 0:12:32.767 or you can with your own baby, but when you're 0:12:32.927 --> 0:12:34.367 looking after someone else's. 0:12:34.127 --> 0:12:36.607 Baby, Holly, clearly Harry went and got a cookie. 0:12:36.807 --> 0:12:40.847 Yeah, bless him. I'm totally but hard relate. Listen. I 0:12:40.847 --> 0:12:43.047 think about this a lot because I know you guys 0:12:43.087 --> 0:12:45.087 like to laugh at me for being like, of the 0:12:45.127 --> 0:12:47.967 three of us, I'm missus participation medal, right, I'm like, 0:12:48.807 --> 0:12:51.727 I think we should absolutely celebrate everybody who has worked 0:12:51.767 --> 0:12:54.767 that frickin' hard. I hate watching a football game when 0:12:54.807 --> 0:12:58.047 it's six nil and somebody's running away with it. I like, yeah, 0:12:58.047 --> 0:13:02.687 I like there's a lot of dignity and importance in 0:13:02.927 --> 0:13:04.847 trying hard. And one of the things that's hard about 0:13:04.967 --> 0:13:07.807 sport is the results are so binary. And I don't 0:13:07.807 --> 0:13:10.887 think it is an accident that a field that I'm 0:13:10.927 --> 0:13:14.207 in and that attracts me the most, it's much less binary. 0:13:14.327 --> 0:13:16.487 Like you can't really just win or lose at doing 0:13:16.527 --> 0:13:18.967 creative pursuits, right. I know that you can. There are 0:13:19.007 --> 0:13:21.767 awards and things, but it's so subjective. You know, this 0:13:21.847 --> 0:13:23.967 book's good because of this, but this one's also good 0:13:23.967 --> 0:13:25.967 because of that. I love the way that person does that. 0:13:25.967 --> 0:13:28.647 That TV shows great because blah blah. Like I'm not 0:13:28.687 --> 0:13:32.007 really just into winning winning, winning, It's not what motivates me. 0:13:33.127 --> 0:13:36.207 But I think that's because I don't see myself as 0:13:36.247 --> 0:13:38.487 a winner, whereas I think people who are hyper competitive 0:13:38.487 --> 0:13:40.687 always do. They see themselves as a person on the 0:13:40.687 --> 0:13:45.407 gold podium. I see myself bronze at best. That's fine, 0:13:45.767 --> 0:13:46.767 But the thing is, I. 0:13:46.687 --> 0:13:48.007 Think that makes you happier. 0:13:48.127 --> 0:13:50.807 But I've had some really big disappointments in my career 0:13:50.847 --> 0:13:52.767 where I have lost. I haven't lost an Olympic medal, 0:13:52.807 --> 0:13:55.087 but after my second book, I pretty much lost my 0:13:55.127 --> 0:13:57.047 publishing deal. I've had things I thought were going to 0:13:57.127 --> 0:13:59.727 be successful and they weren't. I've had all kinds of 0:13:59.727 --> 0:14:03.247 big setbacks like that, And it's really hard. 0:14:04.327 --> 0:14:05.247 If you thought the. 0:14:05.167 --> 0:14:07.967 Only value in doing what you do is that I'm 0:14:07.967 --> 0:14:10.407 going to get a gold medal for it, then there 0:14:10.447 --> 0:14:12.647 would be no point in doing it. I think that 0:14:12.807 --> 0:14:15.207 the growth and the important thing and the thing that 0:14:15.247 --> 0:14:17.687 we actually love about watching sport and athletes that we 0:14:17.727 --> 0:14:21.127 don't admit is we love seeing that. We love seeing 0:14:21.167 --> 0:14:23.207 the fact that, like, you know, the people who are 0:14:23.207 --> 0:14:24.887 getting up at four am and swimming every day, they 0:14:24.967 --> 0:14:27.527 might never win gold, but like the commitment to do 0:14:27.607 --> 0:14:31.167 that is astounding. And like so anyway, to my point 0:14:31.247 --> 0:14:33.327 is I do love a tryer, and I do I 0:14:33.327 --> 0:14:35.287 think there's lots of dignity and losing and I think 0:14:35.287 --> 0:14:37.487 there's no shame in silver, is what I'm saying. But 0:14:38.287 --> 0:14:40.367 what I do when I've had those kind of setbacks 0:14:40.407 --> 0:14:43.487 and they've been significant, is I retreat when I'm really upset. 0:14:43.527 --> 0:14:47.407 I retreat every time, Like I remember getting a phone 0:14:47.447 --> 0:14:51.127 call that gave me very bad professional news, and I 0:14:51.207 --> 0:14:53.487 will put on a brave face and get through the day, 0:14:53.607 --> 0:14:56.007 and then I will retreat. 0:14:56.167 --> 0:14:58.607 And I got And when I say retreat, do you 0:14:58.967 --> 0:15:01.487 retreat to your family or away from your family too? 0:15:01.567 --> 0:15:03.167 Like do you like being completely on your own for 0:15:03.207 --> 0:15:04.007 a little bit to plays? 0:15:04.487 --> 0:15:08.567 And I might reach out to somebody surprising who is 0:15:08.607 --> 0:15:11.327 going to tell me me, like for advice, but not 0:15:11.407 --> 0:15:14.247 necessarily someone who's just going to tell me it's all 0:15:14.247 --> 0:15:18.327 going to be great and you're amazing. Sometimes in my life, 0:15:18.327 --> 0:15:21.407 I've definitely reached for unhealthy ways to deal with feeling 0:15:21.447 --> 0:15:24.407 sad or losing. Definitely jumped into a big glass of 0:15:24.407 --> 0:15:28.007 wine on occasion, Definitely eaten too much chocolate on occasion, 0:15:28.127 --> 0:15:31.527 Definitely taken it out on my other half, like I'm 0:15:31.567 --> 0:15:35.087 not some kind of post a child for. 0:15:35.127 --> 0:15:38.687 I agree with Holly that there's something that happens when 0:15:38.727 --> 0:15:43.967 you try your absolute hardest at something, regardless of the outcome. 0:15:44.127 --> 0:15:46.127 There is some self esteem, which is what I think 0:15:46.167 --> 0:15:48.487 he realized in that second clip. Doesn't mean that the 0:15:48.607 --> 0:15:51.887 loss is any less hard, because you know it's a loss, 0:15:51.887 --> 0:15:54.087 and there's disappointment and you can hope and all of that. 0:15:54.527 --> 0:15:56.967 Even the winners lose, Like there's no such thing as 0:15:57.007 --> 0:15:59.247 someone who just wins, even though it can look that 0:15:59.287 --> 0:16:01.727 way regardless of the result. There's been points in my 0:16:01.767 --> 0:16:03.927 life where I've gone, oh, I've worked really hard at this, 0:16:04.767 --> 0:16:10.247 but I have experienced the same those like monumental failures. 0:16:10.487 --> 0:16:14.127 And what he spoke to in that clip that I 0:16:14.207 --> 0:16:16.527 resonated with was a real sense of shame, Like I 0:16:16.607 --> 0:16:18.207 felt embarrassment. 0:16:17.607 --> 0:16:20.047 One hundred percent, and that's why I retreat right, Yes, 0:16:20.127 --> 0:16:22.127 And it's interesting because do you ever look at and 0:16:22.127 --> 0:16:23.607 I'm going to get their names wrong, but the two 0:16:23.687 --> 0:16:26.647 swimmers who won gold and silver earlier this week, who 0:16:26.647 --> 0:16:28.887 were like best friend and training partner, Marianne and Molly, 0:16:28.967 --> 0:16:32.407 but it changed the order that everyone was expecting. When 0:16:32.807 --> 0:16:35.087 Molly asked Arianne to come and stand on the gold 0:16:35.167 --> 0:16:37.847 podium with her, she looked a little bit uncomfortable about doing. 0:16:37.647 --> 0:16:38.367 It, but she did it. 0:16:38.727 --> 0:16:41.487 If there's any embarrassment there, it wouldn't have been for 0:16:41.527 --> 0:16:43.647 her and her performance. But it's what she thinks other 0:16:43.647 --> 0:16:45.687 people are thinking that she's thinking, do you know what 0:16:45.687 --> 0:16:47.887 I mean? Yes, she must be so embarrassed. 0:16:48.247 --> 0:16:50.287 You know what I mean exactly right, And it's like 0:16:50.367 --> 0:16:53.607 you feel as though that's being projected. And what I 0:16:53.647 --> 0:16:56.407 respect so much about Harry Garside, right, in order to 0:16:56.407 --> 0:16:59.327 go to the Olympics and in order to be that hungry, 0:16:59.367 --> 0:17:01.447 and he posted something before he went and he's like, 0:17:01.447 --> 0:17:03.647 I'm there to win a gold medal, Like, that's what 0:17:03.687 --> 0:17:06.407 I'm doing. You are putting yourself out there to be 0:17:06.847 --> 0:17:10.127 as touchwood to go. I am trying the hardest I 0:17:10.127 --> 0:17:13.127 can possibly try and if I failed failed vulnerable you 0:17:13.167 --> 0:17:16.407 know I tried, whereas the easiest thing and the less 0:17:16.447 --> 0:17:19.367 courageous thing is to not try. And I know we're 0:17:19.407 --> 0:17:22.007 in this moment now where it's like talk about it. 0:17:22.007 --> 0:17:23.247 You've got to talk about it. You've got to talk 0:17:23.247 --> 0:17:26.407 about it. Call someone and don't be alone. There was 0:17:26.407 --> 0:17:29.007 this research that came out recently that Emily Vernon wrote 0:17:29.007 --> 0:17:31.527 about from Mamma Mayor about how when something really awful 0:17:31.527 --> 0:17:35.047 happens to women, often they don't tell their immediate friends 0:17:35.047 --> 0:17:37.247 about it, even though they have this intimacy and they've 0:17:37.247 --> 0:17:40.447 probably had fourteen conversations, they haven't brought it up. And 0:17:40.527 --> 0:17:44.127 I think it's intentional, because I think distraction is. 0:17:45.047 --> 0:17:47.487 About when you tell someone it's real. When you're a link, 0:17:47.967 --> 0:17:50.687 there's no option with that. Listening to harrogasaid, I was 0:17:50.727 --> 0:17:56.447 thinking about the public nature of not meeting your goals 0:17:56.487 --> 0:18:01.407 in the most public forum imaginable, and I was thinking 0:18:01.447 --> 0:18:04.127 that sometimes, because you know, we're talking about what I do, 0:18:04.167 --> 0:18:07.367 and I'm sad, that's kind of very different to when 0:18:07.727 --> 0:18:10.447 there's a definitive point of a working towards maybe for 0:18:10.487 --> 0:18:13.847 four years, maybe for twenty years, I didn't get the 0:18:13.887 --> 0:18:16.327 result that I wanted, and I know that that is 0:18:16.367 --> 0:18:18.767 the end of my road. Like he said, he's done, 0:18:18.887 --> 0:18:20.807 like he can't keep he won't be able to compete 0:18:20.807 --> 0:18:22.847 at the next Olympics. So he might be able to 0:18:22.887 --> 0:18:25.167 reach other goals, but the goal of an Olympic gold 0:18:26.167 --> 0:18:30.927 is forever gone. And that idea of a definitive end 0:18:31.047 --> 0:18:34.927 point to a dream. I don't know whether that's more 0:18:35.047 --> 0:18:38.887 or less cruel than when a dream peters out slowly. 0:18:39.007 --> 0:18:41.527 And I was thinking about in real life when that 0:18:41.607 --> 0:18:46.367 happens for regular people, like perhaps realizing that you won't 0:18:46.407 --> 0:18:50.607 be able to conceive a child yourself, or when a 0:18:50.767 --> 0:18:55.967 marriage ends, or when someone you love dies or someone 0:18:56.007 --> 0:18:58.527 you're estranged frum dies and you realize there will be 0:18:58.607 --> 0:19:02.127 no reconciliation or you will not be able to correct 0:19:02.447 --> 0:19:04.047 whatever it was. If it's a parent that you had 0:19:04.087 --> 0:19:06.767 a terrible relationship with, and it's like the dream of 0:19:06.807 --> 0:19:09.647 them being the parent that I always hope that might 0:19:09.807 --> 0:19:14.527 become even as an adult that's gone, that can't happen anymore. 0:19:15.167 --> 0:19:18.487 It's almost like about mourning the past because it's all 0:19:18.567 --> 0:19:21.327 the time you'd spent dreaming, but also mourning the future. 0:19:21.327 --> 0:19:23.967 Because there will never be a time when it is fixed. 0:19:24.887 --> 0:19:27.087 There will never be a time when you feel complete 0:19:27.127 --> 0:19:29.447