Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia. Out loud. It's what women are actually talking
Speaker 2: about on Friday, the fifth of September. I'm Holly Wayne Wright,
Speaker 2: and I'm remembering that we used to always say to
Speaker 2: our out louders on a Friday, this is your place
Speaker 2: on Friday for a bit of relaxation.
Speaker 1: I love it, a.
Speaker 2: Break from anything newsy. This is just a place where
Speaker 2: we do a bit of thinky, a bit of piss takery,
Speaker 2: bit of fun, a bit of yep recos for your weekend.
Speaker 2: So welcome, relax.
Speaker 1: You're wearing a cobalt blue shirt, which is the perfect vibe.
Speaker 1: And I am Jesse Stevens and.
Speaker 2: On today's show, this is what made our agenda. First,
Speaker 2: the Google doc that will instantly divide everyone listening into
Speaker 2: two types of.
Speaker 1: People, plus our love hate relationship with rich people's.
Speaker 3: And your weekly recommendations including a brilliant Netflix drama, a
Speaker 3: strange fitness fad, and something very fancy for your face.
Speaker 3: But first, in case you missed it, headphones are making
Speaker 3: your anxiety worse. How so, specially your noise canceling ones.
Speaker 3: Do either of you use noise canceling headphones?
Speaker 1: Yes, you can pry my air pods playing pink noise
Speaker 1: out of my colder.
Speaker 3: Really okay? So, according to a piece by a woman
Speaker 3: named l Jones on Substack, there is a growing body
Speaker 3: of evidence to suggest that noise canceling headphones are causing
Speaker 3: hearing problems in young people. But also the reliance on
Speaker 3: them is creeping, and she's saying that this is not
Speaker 3: a good thing. So first you use them on the train,
Speaker 3: and then maybe you're at work, you're trying to concentrate,
Speaker 3: you put on your pink noise whatever it is, and
Speaker 3: eventually you've got them in because the hum of the
Speaker 3: refrigerator is irritating you. Important caveat as well for people
Speaker 3: with neurological conditions or who are neu divergent. There's an
Speaker 3: obvious exception, right, for a long time people have needed
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff, but for most they could be
Speaker 3: doing more harm than good. So audiology departments are reporting
Speaker 3: that more and more young people are coming in to
Speaker 3: get their hearing checked, and when they do check the hearing,
Speaker 3: they say it's not an issue with your hearing, but
Speaker 3: with your listening, so the part of your brains.
Speaker 2: All children have that problem, the listening problem. It's just
Speaker 2: that they can't hear you when you tell them to
Speaker 2: do things they don't want to do.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, apparently the headphones are making it worse. So
Speaker 3: it's the processing of the sound. They're not doing it
Speaker 3: as much. Filtering out noise from the car alarm to
Speaker 3: the barking dog is a skill that strengthens with practice,
Speaker 3: which we have evolved to be able to do. And
Speaker 3: if you start to control for all of that, then
Speaker 3: when you are confronted with an unexpected noise like a
Speaker 3: door slamming, that leads to really high levels of anxiety.
Speaker 3: The suggestion is that we go back to wide headphones,
Speaker 3: or we walk around with nothing in our ears and
Speaker 3: we reconnect with our environment.
Speaker 2: What do we think. I've got those air pods that
Speaker 2: cancel surround sound, and I coveted them for ages. I
Speaker 2: heard someone fancy on a podcast talking about them once
Speaker 2: and I was like, that's what I need, and I
Speaker 2: bought them as a treat. Because they're expensive. I'm in
Speaker 2: a love hate relationship with them, which is why this
Speaker 2: does resonate because prosecco problems, it's like you put them
Speaker 2: in and you feel very disconnected from the world suddenly,
Speaker 2: and you're like, yeah, I wanted to listen to my
Speaker 2: podcast and my music, but I didn't necessarily want to
Speaker 2: be completely cut off from everybody else. But then the
Speaker 2: problem is you get addicted to them, and now if
Speaker 2: they're not in noise canceling, I don't feel like I
Speaker 2: can focus. So I think they're like, as you say,
Speaker 2: it's like it's a learning the other thing that's annoying
Speaker 2: about them. And again, prosecco problems, they turn down when
Speaker 2: someone talks to you, these fancy ones really, So if
Speaker 2: you come up to me and you're like, Holly, I
Speaker 2: needed a blah, it turns down. And the thing about
Speaker 2: that is I don't want to listen to you. I
Speaker 2: want to listen to my So I'm like, shut up,
Speaker 2: I've just missed the five really important words that Megan
Speaker 2: Markle just said in her latest four hour interview, so
Speaker 2: that you could tell me it was time to go
Speaker 2: and do some work. I don't know into it.
Speaker 3: I find them very claustrophobic. I don't like the feeling.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to think about how the ubiquity
Speaker 1: of them has changed our relationship with the world en
Speaker 1: mass and I think back to that Apple ad, which
Speaker 1: I know that you lot loved, but I was depressed
Speaker 1: by the Pedro Pascal where he's walking through a busy
Speaker 1: city street and the seasons past the four year passes,
Speaker 1: and I believe he's getting over a breakup and then
Speaker 1: he needs someone new. I found it profoundly depressing because,
Speaker 1: setting aside the dreaminess of Pedro Pascal, what you saw
Speaker 1: there was he was completely disconnected from all these amazing
Speaker 1: things that were happening around him because he had his
Speaker 1: air pods in, and it struck me as almost sinister.
Speaker 2: No one can sell me the end of the world
Speaker 2: like Pedro.
Speaker 3: I hate as well that I have friends who are
Speaker 3: dealing with you know, newborns or whatever at home, and
Speaker 3: one of them does headphones when they're trying to sleep whatever,
Speaker 3: which I semi get. But it's also like, at what
Speaker 3: point is our house being robbed and we don't know?
Speaker 3: At what point has a plane crashed in our backyard
Speaker 3: and we are not aware.
Speaker 2: They're not that good.
Speaker 1: I need to mention ear Wax look it's Friday. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I often think about the compacting of earwax that is
Speaker 1: happening when we jam those air pods into our areas. Now,
Speaker 1: this is not based in anything scientific apart from a
Speaker 1: feeling that I am compacting earwax. Is that just a
Speaker 1: me problem?
Speaker 3: No, that's a really good question.
Speaker 2: I wonder.
Speaker 3: No, But I wonder if constant wearing is not good right,
Speaker 3: because I've got friends who have talked about going to
Speaker 3: the doctor realizing they've got lots, get it all sorted,
Speaker 3: and suddenly everything's really loud, and it all is a
Speaker 3: great feeling.
Speaker 1: And some people, such as maybe me, go to sleep
Speaker 1: sometimes with the air pods in listening to the Ezra
Speaker 1: Cline podcast, and look, I know that's a sickness. But
Speaker 1: I just worry about the ear wax situation.
Speaker 3: I know. I would like a doctor to please tell
Speaker 3: us if we should be worried about that, if that's
Speaker 3: also making it worse for our ears.
Speaker 1: I will say that Jennifer Aniston was recently photographed with
Speaker 1: the old school apple wire earbuds, and it made me think,
Speaker 1: that's a woman that knows how to live. And if
Speaker 1: she's got the wired ones back, maybe we should all
Speaker 1: be doing.
Speaker 2: It, if only she was aspirational to the young people.
Speaker 2: Because the kids nag parents for air pods, right, you know, teenagers,
Speaker 2: tween ages, and they're very expensive and they are exceptionally
Speaker 2: easy to lose. So usually you resist and you resist,
Speaker 2: and then they might get a pair of old ones
Speaker 2: or whatever. But if the wired ones were still cool,
Speaker 2: there's so much more affordable.
Speaker 3: I've had wireless ones stolen off a pram, and I
Speaker 3: have had my air pods. I leave the box everywhere,
Speaker 3: like I just I've left the box on a plane
Speaker 3: and stuff. I get my wireless back in.
Speaker 1: I want to track a single left air bud as
Speaker 1: it traveled the world after I left it on a plane.
Speaker 2: Having a little adventure without you. Sit with me, friends,
Speaker 2: while we get very real about something. Approximately half you
Speaker 2: are going to find this very useful. What we're about
Speaker 2: to talk about. You're either already doing it or you
Speaker 2: will immediately start at Google doc when we stop talking today.
Speaker 2: The other half will throw their phone in the ocean.
Speaker 2: That's me, Yeah, here we go. Let me tell you
Speaker 2: why it's about death. I know it's Friday. I know
Speaker 2: we promised you fun, but I promise you This is
Speaker 2: very interesting and it may change your life. It starts
Speaker 2: with the newsletter, right. This newsletter was titled the Most
Speaker 2: Loving Thing You Can Do, and it's by Elie Lernon.
Speaker 2: Now she writes this newsletter called Pulling the Thread. She
Speaker 2: used to work for Goop, and I subscribe to this
Speaker 2: newsletter because I thought one day, one day, she's going
Speaker 2: to spill all the beans.
Speaker 3: About Okay, you're a prescribe for the Gossip and you
Speaker 3: got death.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because here we are. NDA's Alasia ain't never gonna
Speaker 2: tell us what really went down at Goop. But she's
Speaker 2: also a writer and a speaker, and she's been on
Speaker 2: no filter. She's like, she's a really interesting woman. Anyway,
Speaker 2: As I say, this newsletter was called the most Loving
Speaker 2: Thing You can Do. She writes that eight years ago
Speaker 2: she lost her brother in law, her brother's beloved partner, Pete,
Speaker 2: and she says, every year, to honor Pete's passing, I
Speaker 2: do a little bit of personal housekeeping that might strike
Speaker 2: you as morbid, but I believe it's actually the most
Speaker 2: loving thing you can do for the people you love.
Speaker 2: In August, every year, I go through a document that
Speaker 2: is shared with my husband and my brother and I
Speaker 2: update any critical information in the event I might unexpectedly die. Now,
Speaker 2: what do you think. I'll tell you what she puts
Speaker 2: in it. But what's your first reactions?
Speaker 3: My reaction is to sit down and do that would
Speaker 3: be to accept an inevitability. I am not prepared yet
Speaker 3: to accept.
Speaker 2: This is the two types of people argument, Amelia. How
Speaker 2: are you feeling about it so far?
Speaker 1: I hate opening Google docs at the best of times.
Speaker 1: Alone one about death?
Speaker 2: Okay, here we go. She talks about how the practicalities
Speaker 2: of death, from immediate arrangements to the cancelation of so
Speaker 2: many parts of someone's life, everything from credit cards to
Speaker 2: bank accounts to social media accounts, are often beyond the
Speaker 2: abilities of the closest mourners right when somebody loses somebody,
Speaker 2: And also it's really hard to uncover and excavate, she writes.
Speaker 2: You want the people you love to be able to
Speaker 2: mourn without needing to hack into your email account. You
Speaker 2: don't want your partner or siblings guessing where you might
Speaker 2: have bank accounts. Most importantly, you want to give your
Speaker 2: people the opportunity to honor you in the way you
Speaker 2: would most appreciate. Nobody wants to guess about that. Here's
Speaker 2: an example of just some of the things she lists
Speaker 2: in this Google doc. Email passwords, right, so email accounts
Speaker 2: and passwords, phone and computer codes. So this is my
Speaker 2: passcode to my iPhone, this is my password to my computer.
Speaker 2: Mortgage details, other debts, life insurance, home insurance, car insurance,
Speaker 2: club and gym memberships. And then there's some less practical,
Speaker 2: more personal stuff like I would like my organs to
Speaker 2: be donated, yes, no, that kind of stuff. I would
Speaker 2: like my body to be buried or cremated, yes, snow,
Speaker 2: I would like to be buried in this location. So
Speaker 2: basically your wishes. Put it all in one document that
Speaker 2: the people closest to you you know exactly where it is.
Speaker 2: And she says, this is the most loving thing you
Speaker 2: can do.
Speaker 3: Thoughts, it's clearly a brilliant idea and a very important
Speaker 3: thing to do. And there are a lot of people
Speaker 3: I know whose families have been torn apart by trying
Speaker 3: to make these decisions by committee in the wake of
Speaker 3: someone's death. That would just be awful. But it's a
Speaker 3: really hard conversation to broach with someone I know that
Speaker 3: there are books that are basically like here's what to
Speaker 3: do if I die? And it's like a spreadsheet, but
Speaker 3: it's like a little organizer.
Speaker 2: What birthday do you go?
Speaker 3: Happy eightieth dad?
Speaker 1: Here's a gift?
Speaker 3: Like, how do you even see.
Speaker 2: The tricky part?
Speaker 3: Broach that? And I think the other reason why people
Speaker 3: are hesitant is because they're actually crippled with indecision about
Speaker 3: some of those things. Obviously there are quite clear things
Speaker 3: like here's my email password, blah blah blah. But the
Speaker 3: thing of where do I want to be buried? How
Speaker 3: do I want to be remembered? What do you want
Speaker 3: the music? I'm like, I have no idea.
Speaker 2: It's not compulsory that you put all that stuff in.
Speaker 2: You could just do the practical things.
Speaker 3: And her point is really clever, which is we all
Speaker 3: think this is, you know, a privilege. But some people
Speaker 3: you know obviously have a diagnosis or something which changes
Speaker 3: how the rest of their life looks. But most of
Speaker 3: us are going, we'll live forrages. I don't need to
Speaker 3: think about that. But she's saying, no, my brother in
Speaker 3: law drop dead and left his family with a lot
Speaker 3: of admin. So I suppose I see some people in
Speaker 3: this life stage going okay, let's get the death stuff
Speaker 3: out of the way, so we can go on living
Speaker 3: and we don't have to think about it anymore. But
Speaker 3: I also think that the two types of people is
Speaker 3: some are so comfortable with dying. There are people in
Speaker 3: my life at all different ages who are so comfortable
Speaker 3: with that reality they can talk about it. And then
Speaker 3: there are others. Again, some of them are young, some
Speaker 3: of them are old who will just never come to
Speaker 3: terms with it and it's always going to be something
Speaker 3: that they try to avoid. And I think I'm in
Speaker 3: the latter camp.
Speaker 1: Look as you were talking, Holly, I realized I was
Speaker 1: physically recoiling from my microphone. So that speaks to my
Speaker 1: own personal comfort with this subject. But it did put
Speaker 1: to mind a New Yorker story from twenty ten that
Speaker 1: has stayed with me for fifteen years. Maybe it's the
Speaker 1: most powerful article I've ever read. It was by the
Speaker 1: physician a tool Go one day, who writes a lot
Speaker 1: about public health and about how individuals can live healthier lives.
Speaker 1: But this article is called letting Go, and it was
Speaker 1: about the importance of talking to people you love about
Speaker 1: what they value in life and what they are prepared
Speaker 1: to put up with when it comes to medical care,
Speaker 1: and he makes the point that people, until very recently,
Speaker 1: dying was typically a very brief process, and these days,
Speaker 1: a catastrophic sudden illness is of course possible, and we
Speaker 1: all know people to whom that's happened, but it's much
Speaker 1: rarer than it used to be. So as a result,
Speaker 1: the dying process has become incredibly prolonged, and we sort
Speaker 1: of expect doctors and medical practitioners to do everything they
Speaker 1: can to prolong it, even when we or our loved
Speaker 1: ones might not want that. And he tells this one
Speaker 1: story that I will never forget in this article, which
Speaker 1: is this daughter spoke to her dying father about what
Speaker 1: he wanted in terms of medical care, and he said.
Speaker 1: The conversation was agonizing. There's no sugarcoating it. It was
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult for both this daughter and her father, and
Speaker 1: he had this illness, and she said, what are you
Speaker 1: prepared to put up with? He said, as long as
Speaker 1: I can keep eating chocolate ice cream, I'm watching football
Speaker 1: on TV. I want to stick around and I want
Speaker 1: to fight. But when I can't do those things anymore,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be here. And so it became
Speaker 1: a litmus test whenever he had a surgery, it was like, well,
Speaker 1: will he be able to eat chocolate ice cream and
Speaker 1: watch football and TV after this? If yes, go ahead.
Speaker 1: And then eventually it got to the point where he
Speaker 1: couldn't eat anymore. He couldn't eat chocolate ice cream, he
Speaker 1: couldn't eat anything. So at that point they knew he
Speaker 1: had to move to hospice. It's just the most powerful idea.
Speaker 2: This is really interesting because it's the thing is there
Speaker 2: are different groups of people who talk about this in
Speaker 2: a different way.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: What you're describing there in terms of is like they
Speaker 2: often call it a need of advanced care. Where you
Speaker 2: get somebody who is, you know, maybe edging towards that
Speaker 2: part of their life to write down or their wishes
Speaker 2: in case things happen to them which are more about
Speaker 2: their own care and as you say, at what place
Speaker 2: they want intervention. That's also a really difficult conversation to
Speaker 2: breach with people. But what an excellent filter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it can be called a living will.
Speaker 2: It can be called a living will exactly. And when
Speaker 2: I interviewed this amazing woman called doctor Jackie Bailey on
Speaker 2: mid last year, she said, ideally everybody who's older should
Speaker 2: have one of those, and she said, you know, if
Speaker 2: they're not googled dot kind of people, output in a
Speaker 2: plastic folder, keep it on top of the fridge, tell
Speaker 2: everybody where it is, and just leave it there. And
Speaker 2: it's got that kind of stuff and if you care
Speaker 2: about it, the funeral stuff and all those kind of things,
Speaker 2: and maybe some of these things that Alice Lehman is
Speaker 2: talking about too. The tricky part is, as you've touched on, Jesse,
Speaker 2: is there are two types of people. I know because
Speaker 2: I'm in this live stage where most of my peer
Speaker 2: group is going through various degrees of issues with their
Speaker 2: parents around illness, health, ongoing, quality of life, and dying.
Speaker 2: And there are some people whose parents are fighting fit
Speaker 2: at the moment, but they are death cleaning like crazy,
Speaker 2: you know, clearing out the garage, clearing out the attic,
Speaker 2: deciding to downside, making all these very practive decisions, and
Speaker 2: they're like, I don't want you to have to worry
Speaker 2: about this. And then there's the second group of people
Speaker 2: to the two types of people argument, who are like, going,
Speaker 2: I want to live my life exactly as I've always
Speaker 2: lived my life for as long as I possibly can,
Speaker 2: and then when something goes pair shaped, we'll deal with
Speaker 2: it then, right. And the thing is is that, as
Speaker 2: any adult children of parents will say, is that can
Speaker 2: be that can be very difficult for them when the
Speaker 2: inevitable happens. But is it fair to try and force
Speaker 2: someone into a very difficult conversation to make your life
Speaker 2: more convenient? You know what I mean? And I'm being
Speaker 2: flippant when I say that, because I know there's a
Speaker 2: lot more to it than Oh, it would be convenient
Speaker 2: for me if I knew what all the passwords were
Speaker 2: and I knew exactly what you wanted to do. But
Speaker 2: it's difficult. But what Dr Jackie Bailey suggested to me,
Speaker 2: because she said, some people who are very uncomfortable with
Speaker 2: talking about death, you've got to provoke them into it.
Speaker 2: This was one of her tips. So she said, for example,
Speaker 2: if your parents or some person that you love who's
Speaker 2: going through this, you know, for example that maybe they
Speaker 2: are very non religious, provoke them with something like so
Speaker 2: obviously you'd want a priest to come, or I know
Speaker 2: what song you'd like? You love blah blah blah, and
Speaker 2: you'd be like Daisies by Justin Biebe. You'd like that
Speaker 2: would you know whatever, and they'll be like what, And
Speaker 2: she said, provoke them into talking about it, because that's
Speaker 2: often a way to kind of get the ball rolling
Speaker 2: in a fashion that's a bit more accessible. And then
Speaker 2: the other thing she said, which is to the elast
Speaker 2: learmon thing, is she's encouraging people who aren't elderly to
Speaker 2: do this in case of unexpected eventualities. Doctor Bailey told
Speaker 2: me that we should all be doing it anyway, because
Speaker 2: then we'll have a better understanding of what it's like
Speaker 2: for our parents. Like if you've done it yourself.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's such a good point.
Speaker 2: If you've done it yourself, then then you know like
Speaker 2: what it's like and how confronting it is and things
Speaker 2: for your parents. But the thing is is for elderly people,
Speaker 2: it is so fronting to suddenly be told, well, think
Speaker 2: about it, mum, Like how many someone's do you think
Speaker 2: you've got? You know what I mean? Like it's so
Speaker 2: up close, and some people are comfortable and some people
Speaker 2: just start.
Speaker 3: Huh yeah, I think too. The living will thing is
Speaker 3: really interesting. And I was speaking to someone last year
Speaker 3: about AI advancements and they were saying that there is
Speaker 3: this new technology that they're developing, which is basically the
Speaker 3: way that AI can scan your medical records, your preferences,
Speaker 3: conversations you've had with doctors, whatever, and predict what you
Speaker 3: would want at a stage. So someone who for example,
Speaker 3: the one that I think about a lot is dementia,
Speaker 3: and that can progress really fast, and it's really hard
Speaker 3: when someone gets a diagnosis to go, all right, what
Speaker 3: are you like? Talk about just you know, worse nightmare,
Speaker 3: what you don't even want to think about down the track,
Speaker 3: But it's going what would this person want? And that's
Speaker 3: the thing that families are grappling with all the time.
Speaker 3: Would they want to be here? Would they want to
Speaker 3: be here?
Speaker 1: And the ambiguity of dementia and the way it makes
Speaker 1: ambiguous what the persons suffering from it would want has
Speaker 1: come up just this week because Bruce Willis's wife is
Speaker 1: under all sorts of scrutiny because she's come out and
Speaker 1: said that she lives separately from Bruce Willis because she
Speaker 1: thinks that their children need a little bit of space
Speaker 1: from him, and she said that that's best for them,
Speaker 1: but she's facing a lot of flag for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to be fair, she said that They've built
Speaker 2: a beautiful, comfortable home for him, with everything he'd want.
Speaker 2: It's not just like off you go, Bruce. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so much criticism. It's really interesting. We'll put a link
Speaker 2: to the newsletter about the Google doc in the show
Speaker 2: notes and to the interview do to Jackie Bailey. And
Speaker 2: obviously of these issues you're grappling with right now, out
Speaker 2: Louder is just sending you enormous love.
Speaker 3: Can I throw in an additional recommendation too. I read
Speaker 3: a book a few years ago called Staring at the
Speaker 3: Sun by doctor Irvin D. Yellam, and it is about
Speaker 3: overcoming the dread of death and death anxiety. He's a
Speaker 3: therapist who worked with people with quite profound death anxiety.
Speaker 3: I think about it all the time. If there's someone
Speaker 3: in your life who broaches that is an issue that
Speaker 3: they find like stressing at any stage, it can just
Speaker 3: be a useful thing. Sometimes it's better to look at
Speaker 3: in the eye.
Speaker 2: I think we've made our own version of this really
Speaker 2: at Muma mea a sort of template to help start
Speaker 2: your off prompts some of these conversations if they're difficult,
Speaker 2: or if you want to do this yourself, and we'll
Speaker 2: put a link to that in the show notes too.
Speaker 1: Out Louders in a moment why we're so obsessed with
Speaker 1: rich people's weddings. There's an influencer who's taking the idea
Speaker 1: of extravagant nuptials to whole new heights, and surprisingly the
Speaker 1: internet loves it.
Speaker 3: Out Louders, We've got a listener dilemma, and we need
Speaker 3: your collective wisdom to help us and our partners at
Speaker 3: UI solve it. Please, here's the problem from our listener.
Speaker 3: I'm in a really awkward situation and need some advice. Yesterday,
Speaker 3: one of my close friends accidentally sent me a screenshot
Speaker 3: that has left me feeling completely betrayed. The screenshot showed
Speaker 3: our recent and private text conversation where I'd been venting
Speaker 3: about my relationship. I shared some pretty intimate details about
Speaker 3: our issues. But what made my stomach drop was seeing
Speaker 3: that she had clearly screenshot at our private chat to
Speaker 3: share it with someone else. She'd obviously been forwarding my
Speaker 3: personal relationship details to someone when she accidentally sent the
Speaker 3: screenshot to me instead. I don't think she has figured
Speaker 3: out what she's done yet. I trusted her with some
Speaker 3: really private information that I'd never told anyone, and now
Speaker 3: I know she was planning to share it all behind
Speaker 3: my back. Should I confront her about that accidental screenshot
Speaker 3: and call her out? Or do I quietly distance myself
Speaker 3: and never confide in her again. I'm angry, I'm hurt.
Speaker 3: The question is what do you do next?
Speaker 1: That's so bad. I'm so sorry. That's such a betrayal
Speaker 1: and it must feel so awful. I think you got
Speaker 1: to call her out for it, for sure, And my
Speaker 1: warning to you is that she's probably going to get defensive.
Speaker 1: You're probably not going to get the heartfelt apology that
Speaker 1: you're hoping for, and there'll probably be some kind of
Speaker 1: excuse made, if not an outright denial. But you have
Speaker 1: to confront her, and then you have to move on.
Speaker 3: And then I think not share details with her anymore.
Speaker 3: She's clearly someone who can't be trusted. The fact she
Speaker 3: hasn't noticed it yet. Oh, it's just also awful. But
Speaker 3: I think you have to say something because I'm trying
Speaker 3: to look at this from another angle, going is there
Speaker 3: another reason she might have screenshot the text? And I
Speaker 3: can't think of one.
Speaker 2: So Pollyanna had on possible excuse? Oh, I was going
Speaker 2: to forward it to a relationship counselor friend of mine
Speaker 2: who would treat it with much discretion but maybe have
Speaker 2: some very useful advice.
Speaker 3: Or it was an accidental screenshot, or I do think
Speaker 3: something I was.
Speaker 2: In a hurry and I didn't see it, but like
Speaker 2: she might have a reason like that. But as you say,
Speaker 2: merely whether or not you're going to believe it.
Speaker 1: There is one caveat I can think of is if
Speaker 1: she feels her friend is an actual danger, which has
Speaker 1: happened to a friend of mine in the past, maybe
Speaker 1: she's seeking some advice from someone on whether it intervene
Speaker 1: more pro actively.
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, that's actually really true.
Speaker 2: It's true. Not that I want to start like making
Speaker 2: excuses for this person, because it is a terrible thing
Speaker 2: to do, but sometimes being the person who has to
Speaker 2: handle all the heaviness of someone else's really difficult situation
Speaker 2: is hard and you need to share that load. But
Speaker 2: in general, I think it's clear what's happened here. You
Speaker 2: need to work out if you can forgive it at all.
Speaker 2: Out louders, what would you do next? Share your thoughts
Speaker 2: in the Mama Mia outloud Facebook group, and also if
Speaker 2: you have a dilemma. Send it to us at out
Speaker 2: loud at mamamea dot com dot au. We would love
Speaker 2: to help you.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about weddings. We're entering wedding season
Speaker 1: and specifically I want to talk about rich people's weddings,
Speaker 1: happy days, What could be better? There is a rich
Speaker 1: person wedding that we understand happened this past weekend. It
Speaker 1: was an influencer no One as Becca Bloom on TikTok,
Speaker 1: real name Rebecca mar She only joined TikTok in January,
Speaker 1: but she already has four million followers, and the Wall
Speaker 1: Street Journal recently crowned her the Queen of Rich Talk now.
Speaker 1: Becker is very wealthy. The money comes largely from her parents.
Speaker 1: They founded a tech company in China before she was born.
Speaker 1: She grew up in the San Francisco area, and she
Speaker 1: herself is doing very well financially. She sold a tech
Speaker 1: company in high school for about three hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and she currently works at some kind of
Speaker 1: fintech company. She hasn't said what company that is. She's
Speaker 1: also engaged now married to an executive at Amazon, so
Speaker 1: clearly there's a lot of money floating around there, and
Speaker 1: we are talking a lot of money. So for instance,
Speaker 1: just to give you some ideas, she feeds her cat Cavia.
Speaker 1: The cat prefers actually sushi grade salmon, but will put
Speaker 1: that aside. It doesn't who doesn't. She goes on date
Speaker 1: nights with her fiance, stopping by jewelers to get diamonds.
Speaker 1: He gives her surprise channel boots. They watch White Lotus
Speaker 1: in their private cinema, you know, regular date night stuff.
Speaker 2: So I'd never heard of her, right, Jesse was like,
Speaker 2: oh she.
Speaker 1: Do you love her? Jesse?
Speaker 3: She is all over my feed. She's got a very
Speaker 3: calming voice, and as someone who is revolted by conspicuous
Speaker 3: consumption and could not care less about designer anything, can't
Speaker 3: pronounce any of the things she's talking about. I must
Speaker 3: say there is something quite charismatic about her.
Speaker 2: Definitely, But my head fell off because I didn't know
Speaker 2: she was and you directed me to her. And she's
Speaker 2: funny and she's clever and she's very good creator. But
Speaker 2: I was like, I am watching a woman. She was like,
Speaker 2: I think the one I watched she was put my
Speaker 2: jewelry on with me. While I recommend five books you
Speaker 2: should read immediately, and then she's literally piling on millions
Speaker 2: of dollars literal millions of dollars of van kleef Arpel
Speaker 2: and how you say it, yeah, and all this stuff
Speaker 2: while she's telling me to read The Righteous Mind by
Speaker 2: Jonathan Hid And I'm like, what weird third dimension have
Speaker 2: I moved into? Now? And then she's like, as she said,
Speaker 2: I'm feeding my dog. I've got these special plates for them.
Speaker 2: I'm going to play it up while I taught to you.
Speaker 2: And You're like, I didn't know this world existed? Am
Speaker 2: I happy I've stumbled on it? I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: Well, this is what I want to talk about. Because
Speaker 1: a lot of people feel the same way as Jesse.
Speaker 1: They love her, They find her calming. Her wedding is
Speaker 1: going to be insane. We haven't actually seen the photos
Speaker 1: yet because she hasn't posted them, but we believe it
Speaker 1: was on this past weekend at an eighteenth century broker
Speaker 1: state on Lake Como. Was estimated to cost five hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars for two hundred guests. But the Internet loves
Speaker 1: her so A sample comment on one of her posts is,
Speaker 1: when I say eat the rich, I would never mean you.
Speaker 2: Beca gets a free pass because she's funny in charm well,
Speaker 2: is that why?
Speaker 1: I have another theory as to why so. I wanted
Speaker 1: to compare the sort of adoration that she gets to
Speaker 1: the reception that Lauren Bezos get out the world's Smallest
Speaker 1: violin got to her nupshaws to Jeff Bezos and Venice recently,
Speaker 1: and I think we can safely say most people were
Speaker 1: ridiculing them, were disgusted by the show of wealth, the
Speaker 1: phone party on the yacht, all of that. I'm just
Speaker 1: more interested in why she gets a pass or influences
Speaker 1: like Beca Bloom get a pass when other rich people's
Speaker 1: weddings are really put under the microscope.
Speaker 3: I reckon that Becka's self awareness, the way she wears
Speaker 3: it and owns it with a bit of a sense
Speaker 3: of humor, is incredibly refreshing for people. What people don't
Speaker 3: like is rich people who pretend they're not really.
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's qualifies Bezos. I don't know.
Speaker 2: No one was being modest to being right.
Speaker 3: There is something about that It felt like it was papped,
Speaker 3: and there were elements of that wedding that we got
Speaker 3: access to. But Becka has this vibe of you're at
Speaker 3: your really rich friend's house who you quite like, even
Speaker 3: though they're really really rich, and they're showing you all
Speaker 3: the jewelry, and you're kind of just they're going, oh
Speaker 3: my goodness, she has.
Speaker 2: A wedding tree. Tell us what a wedding tree is.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'd never heard of a wedding tree. It's sort
Speaker 3: of like a Christmas tree, Holly, And what people do
Speaker 3: is they put all their gifts for your wedding under it.
Speaker 3: Except this isn't like a toaster.
Speaker 2: No, I don't need no toasters.
Speaker 3: Ermez, the hatress, Silence, and also a Chanel bag which
Speaker 3: she does unboxings, which I must be clear, I feel
Speaker 3: physically sick.
Speaker 2: I was watching I do not like it. I was
Speaker 2: watching her do some of those and she opens something
Speaker 2: from Mez or whatever, and it was like, this is
Speaker 2: a wedding present to myself for committing to doing my best.
Speaker 2: She's not even really pretending that she's getting married because
Speaker 2: she wants to marry this guy. It's like, this is
Speaker 2: another scene in my life, and we get a lot
Speaker 2: of presents for it. She must also be getting paid
Speaker 2: by all these jewelry brands, so she's not.
Speaker 3: Vinal No, apparently not. Apparently not.
Speaker 2: She is an ambassador for Van kliefer Pell.
Speaker 1: Anyway back to your point.
Speaker 2: Get back to your point. Can I just on your
Speaker 2: theory though, Can I just say there's very valid reasons
Speaker 2: for disapproving of Bezos. We probably don't know that much
Speaker 2: about where Mars mony.
Speaker 1: Know where she works.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I think that, you know, really a lot
Speaker 2: of the ridicule we have for Bezos and that wedding
Speaker 2: and the showiness of that and the five day extravaganza
Speaker 2: and all the people who went to it is also
Speaker 2: kind of to do with And I'm just going to
Speaker 2: gesture broadly and go the world right now, and we
Speaker 2: can kind of hold the Bezoses of the world who
Speaker 2: are at Donald Trump's inauguration, who are, you know, decimating
Speaker 2: traditional industries around them? We can kind of hold them
Speaker 2: accountable for it, right Whereas Beca Bloom we're just like,
Speaker 2: who knows, Maybe she got all that money by lovely means,
Speaker 2: And I'm really happy for her diamonds.
Speaker 3: So it's interesting that her proximity to Amazon as well,
Speaker 3: the fact that her husband is an Amazon executive kind
Speaker 3: of doesn't seem to taint her image. But when I
Speaker 3: started being served videos of her, it was her telling
Speaker 3: me what it was like to grow up that rich.
Speaker 3: And there's an element of like purviness. She was just
Speaker 3: born into this wild life.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: Great segue. I think this is about how we feel
Speaker 1: about gold diggers, and I'm sorry to use the term,
Speaker 1: but I'm throwing it on the table because I think
Speaker 1: that's why what's going on here.
Speaker 2: But she's not a gold digger, right exactly.
Speaker 1: So the Bezos wedding is about this idea that Lauren
Speaker 1: Bezos is marrying up. And it turns out there's a
Speaker 1: word for it, when you marry into a different social class.
Speaker 1: It's called hypergamy, not to be confused with bigamy. Hypergamy,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. And we've
Speaker 1: got a number of examples of that floating around right now.
Speaker 1: There's Lauren Bezos, there's Huma Aberdeen, who is the Democratic
Speaker 1: operative who married a Sorrows recently, and Milania Trump is
Speaker 1: arguably a kind of archetype of that too. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of different feelings going around about how we
Speaker 1: should feel about these women who are marrying up. If
Speaker 1: you look at Cold Her Daddy. That podcast kind of
Speaker 1: frames marrying up as a smart business decision. It does.
Speaker 1: Or think of the TikTok that blew up. Let's have
Speaker 1: a listen to it.
Speaker 3: I'm looking for a Man in Finance Trust don six
Speaker 3: five Finance Trust Fun six five.
Speaker 2: That was a banger of last summer, I think in it.
Speaker 1: It's also the movie in Aura, movie Materialists. All of
Speaker 1: these movies and pop culture moments are about embracing the
Speaker 1: idea of marrying up as a smart thing to do
Speaker 1: as a woman in a world where the system has
Speaker 1: rigged against you. Inequality has never been more rampant, And
Speaker 1: yet we also hate women who do that. We also
Speaker 1: feel disdain for them.
Speaker 3: They can't trust them.
Speaker 1: We can't trust them. Becca Bloom didn't do that. She
Speaker 1: grew up rich. Yeah, she's marrying a rich guy. But
Speaker 1: that's actually kind of beside the point. I think that
Speaker 1: money comes from her family, and from familial wealth.
Speaker 2: That is so depressing.
Speaker 3: I think too. I was reading this piece in the
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal about her that was saying, we live
Speaker 3: in an age of such status anxiety that even the
Speaker 3: really rich don't feel like they have enough. Like there's
Speaker 3: a real to be able to look down the barrel
Speaker 3: of a camera and go, I am really rich. I've
Speaker 3: always been rich, I will always be rich. Come and
Speaker 3: have a look at my house. Is like the reason
Speaker 3: why her content goes viral is because she's exceptionally rich.
Speaker 3: Like there was one that she did recently. She needed
Speaker 3: wedding shoes or whatever, and so she just got on
Speaker 3: her private jet and went to Paris. I didn't know
Speaker 3: that people did that. And there's such normally a wall
Speaker 3: up and a privacy about wealth where people who are
Speaker 3: low income or middle income do talk about money. They
Speaker 3: talk about salary, and they talk about rent, and they
Speaker 3: talk about mortgages. But when people edge into those kind
Speaker 3: of upper echelons, it becomes a little bit kind of.
Speaker 2: Her wall will come up. Like she's only been doing
Speaker 2: this since January. She is putting a massive target on
Speaker 2: her head in many ways.
Speaker 1: No, but think of say the Sofia Richie Grange wedding,
Speaker 1: which was another real celebrity wedding moment. She got married
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, and that was kind of like
Speaker 1: the crowning of quiet luxury, Like that was the culmination
Speaker 1: of that trend. She got married in a number of
Speaker 1: different design and dresses. I think she now created three
Speaker 1: of them for the weekend. She was very celebrated on
Speaker 1: the internet. And that's because she's Linel Richie's daughter. She's
Speaker 1: rich herself.
Speaker 2: But do you think the people who because and obviously
Speaker 2: when Becka Bloom's wedding photos dropped, because everybody's been very
Speaker 2: invested in the journey. She's tried on twenty million dresses
Speaker 2: and all the jewels and d da da da da,
Speaker 2: when they drop, will everybody be watching it with aspiration?
Speaker 2: All they've watching it like a sort of freak show almost.
Speaker 3: That's what's bizarre, is it that I seem to be
Speaker 3: laced with some aspiration? It's not how I watch it.
Speaker 3: But if we view weddings as content now, which is
Speaker 3: really what they are, they're a great content strategy for
Speaker 3: at least six months. You know, you do the tryons,
Speaker 3: you do the venue. She's going to have so much
Speaker 3: content out of this.
Speaker 1: That's why we say, will you take me as your
Speaker 1: content strategy?
Speaker 2: Because it's literal, but it is literally that right. Like
Speaker 2: I know this is an unpopular thing to say, but
Speaker 2: choosing a place that you have no connection to not
Speaker 2: that I mean, maybe I'm wrong, maybe she has a
Speaker 2: deep connection to it, but like a beautiful villa and
Speaker 2: Lake Como as your film set.
Speaker 3: You're just saying that, Holly, because you've started learning Italian,
Speaker 3: so you think you're like, you don't even do Dui
Speaker 3: lingo every day.
Speaker 2: It's like, this is the film set for what I'm
Speaker 2: imagining here, because you're so right. You know, we're obsessed
Speaker 2: with this stuff, and we know that weddings in ordinary
Speaker 2: people's lives give them a content strategy for six weeks
Speaker 2: at least. But if you contrast this with say Charlie
Speaker 2: XCX's wedding, which was in the northern summer in London
Speaker 2: this year, where they went to the town hall, Hackney
Speaker 2: town Hall, which is a very cool place to get married.
Speaker 2: It used to be Chelsea town Hall, but no, that's
Speaker 2: Hackney town Hall and you wear a short dress and
Speaker 2: then you go to the pub and you have a
Speaker 2: pint in the city and then you just have a
Speaker 2: party with your mates. Now, obviously that's very true to
Speaker 2: Charlie XCX's brand, but to me it feels like an
Speaker 2: actual wedding that's about getting married to somebody and celebrating
Speaker 2: your mates these kind of weddings, and I know that
Speaker 2: you could argue that I'm jealous and dah da da dah,
Speaker 2: but they just feel like a performance. There doesn't feel
Speaker 2: like there's anything real about it. And the idea that
Speaker 2: you can invite all mom and Dad's rich, rich friends
Speaker 2: and they'll put presents under your tree.
Speaker 1: You don't need performances.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's levels, isn't there.
Speaker 3: I reckon too that there's something distinctly American about this phenomenon.
Speaker 3: Becka Bloom doesn't exist in the UK, and she does
Speaker 3: not exist in Australia.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true, and.
Speaker 3: You'll imagine how different it would look in the UK
Speaker 3: because there's such a sense of new money and old money.
Speaker 2: I think about royal we.
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about weddings. I'm talking about content on
Speaker 3: TikTok and the idea that there's transparency. Like in the UK,
Speaker 3: there's a real sense of privacy. I'm thinking about Saltburn
Speaker 3: and the way that there is a certain amount of
Speaker 3: wealth that becomes very very private. But if Becka Bloom
Speaker 3: existed in Australia, she would have a much larger target
Speaker 3: on her back. I think and in the US. There's
Speaker 3: a thing about the American dream and aspiration. And if
Speaker 3: I just work hard enough, I too will have my
Speaker 3: wedding in like Como with my gift tree. After the break,
Speaker 3: we've got some recommendations just in time for your weekend,
Speaker 3: including Holly's very fancy beauty.
Speaker 2: I feel like Beca Blooms exactly right.
Speaker 3: We've got Becker Bloom over here with a present under
Speaker 3: a gift tree.
Speaker 2: Bloom.
Speaker 1: What did she say?
Speaker 3: She said, I'm giving it to myself for trying.
Speaker 2: For committing to trying my best.
Speaker 3: That's why Holly bought her self a balm.
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 2: of the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 2: five days a week, and a huge thank you to
Speaker 2: all our current.
Speaker 3: Subscrib Before we get to recommendations, I need to tell
Speaker 3: you about ned the snail. A woman in New Zealand.
Speaker 3: Her name is Gizelle. She was hanging in her garden
Speaker 3: like you, Holly, and she noticed a snail.
Speaker 2: I see snails. Oh my god, you know what I
Speaker 2: do with them?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: No, I can't say Actually, I don't kill them. Don't worry.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to kill them, but just put you
Speaker 2: move them up. I throw them. I picked them off
Speaker 2: because they're eating your things. Okay, pick them off, throw
Speaker 2: them in the hedge.
Speaker 3: Well that's what Gizelle was going to do, Holly, and
Speaker 3: Gizelle is very into the environment. So you're allowed to
Speaker 3: throw your snail as long as you don't track that
Speaker 3: hard gentless exactly right. So she was just going to
Speaker 3: kind of move the snail along, was her euphemism, when
Speaker 3: she noticed something unusual about Ned, and that was that
Speaker 3: Ned had a shell that spiraled to the right. The
Speaker 3: reason that's interesting is that nearly all snails on their
Speaker 3: shell spirals to the left.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I did How closely are you looking
Speaker 2: at this? Okale?
Speaker 3: Well, I should say that Gizelle was primed to notice
Speaker 3: this because she works for the New Zealand geographic magazine. Right,
Speaker 3: so she knew this.
Speaker 2: She's she's nail fluent, she knows she understand the significance
Speaker 2: of shells.
Speaker 3: Hang on, this is interesting. What's the big deal. Why
Speaker 3: do we care that the snail shell's gone the wrong way? Well,
Speaker 3: it's Ned's penis allow me to explain his reproductive organs
Speaker 3: won't line up with other snails because their shell is
Speaker 3: the other way. It's kind of like he's programmed the
Speaker 3: opposite way around and in order for Ned to meet
Speaker 3: a lovely like partner. I know this is very heteronormative.
Speaker 3: We've not even asked Ned about his preferences where the
Speaker 3: consent exactly. But if Ned wants to procreate.
Speaker 2: Doesn't it every snail. It doesn't make little baby snails
Speaker 2: exactly eat my cabbages.
Speaker 3: If he wants to, then he needs to find a
Speaker 3: snail with the same shell. Right, So people in music
Speaker 3: this would only happen in New Zealand. In New Zealand
Speaker 3: are being encouraged to find Ned a lady friend. They
Speaker 3: are looking for a snail with a shell that spirals
Speaker 3: to the left. Giselle has of course acknowledged that they
Speaker 3: will need to be compatible personality wise and the sparks.
Speaker 1: Will have far Can we help? Can we look?
Speaker 3: Thank you, Amelia? That's what I thought, because we're not far,
Speaker 3: are we We're not.
Speaker 1: Far from snail to New Zealand exactly.
Speaker 3: The one on a plane. I think that if someone
Speaker 3: finds a little lady.
Speaker 1: They're not protection going to be cool with them.
Speaker 2: No, they're not.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's just I feel like Ned couldn't get in,
Speaker 3: but I feel like Nora could get out.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be rude, Ned, but you're not
Speaker 2: an endangered species. If Ned does not get to procreate,
Speaker 2: the garden snails will be fine. But then we're the
Speaker 2: ones at the left side, they'll be all right. It's
Speaker 2: very cute, but I'm sorry one less snail to chew
Speaker 2: my cabbages. I'm here for it.
Speaker 1: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun. This is my
Speaker 1: best recommendation.
Speaker 3: It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
Speaker 3: weekend with our best recods. Holly, please go first.
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you my beck at bloom Reco
Speaker 2: my beca bloom Star recommendation. I'm currently obsessed with cheeks.
Speaker 2: You don't know like where it's come from, but I
Speaker 2: go through phases when it comes to beauty and skin things,
Speaker 2: and at the minute, I'm like, I've noticed it because
Speaker 2: we're always on video. I've noticed that if I've got
Speaker 2: color in my face, I just look more alive.
Speaker 3: That's a good so like a blush.
Speaker 2: So I bought this thing because and this is the
Speaker 2: most twenty twenty five midlife sentence you'll ever read. I
Speaker 2: saw Naomi Watts recommend this in Miranda July's newsletter. It's
Speaker 2: a bomb by a brand called Jones Road. Now, Jones
Speaker 2: Road is Bobby Brown, you know, she's a very famous yep.
Speaker 2: But she's got her own brand. She's had it for
Speaker 2: a few years now, but it's only just become available
Speaker 2: to be shipped to Australia, so it's available in Australia now.
Speaker 2: And this barmb, it's called Miracle balm, is kind of
Speaker 2: controversial because some people think it's great and some people
Speaker 2: think it's a bit of nonsense, a bit of Emperor's
Speaker 2: New clothes, because it's kind of like a blush or
Speaker 2: a highlighter, or almost like a lip barmb. But it's
Speaker 2: for your face and it comes in thirteen different shades,
Speaker 2: and even the ones that are quite pigmented are quite sheer.
Speaker 2: But it makes you feel like plump top and dewy,
Speaker 2: and it gives you a bit.
Speaker 3: Of a shine, but it doesn't give you a lot
Speaker 3: of pigment.
Speaker 2: Not a lot of pigment. They've got some of them
Speaker 2: have got more pigment than others, and some are almost clear.
Speaker 2: But I just I love I've been putting it on
Speaker 2: and it just it kind of makes me feel like
Speaker 2: So it's she they say on their marketing. You can
Speaker 2: either wear it. You could wear it with a bare
Speaker 2: face if you're like got gorgeous skin like Naomi What's
Speaker 2: you could put it on a bare face and it
Speaker 2: just gives you a bit of or you can put
Speaker 2: it over foundation, or you can put it on halfway
Speaker 2: through the day to kind of pick you up. Blah
Speaker 2: blah blah.
Speaker 3: And it's very much.
Speaker 2: It's got a highlighter, yeah, and it's kind of glowy,
Speaker 2: and it comes in quite a big pot, so it'll
Speaker 2: lasts your long time. But it is expensive. It's seventy bucks, okay, right,
Speaker 2: and they come in all these different shades. And then
Speaker 2: at the moment if you're shipping that, like my shipping
Speaker 2: was about fifteen dollars, but if you'd spent loads of
Speaker 2: money you get free shipping obviously. But anyway, I really
Speaker 2: like it, So I'm putting that butt because I know
Speaker 2: that's a lot of money. There is also lots of
Speaker 2: dupes of it because it's become really famous and fantastic.
Speaker 2: So you can also buy Revolution Balm Glow and you
Speaker 2: can buy that in lots of shades too, at like
Speaker 2: a price line, and it's very similar, a very similar product.
Speaker 2: There are quite a few of them now, but this
Speaker 2: is the one that everyone says is the best, and
Speaker 2: you can get that at price line. Revolution do really
Speaker 2: good things. I love the highlighter and that is literally
Speaker 2: fourteen bucks and in fact it's on so at the
Speaker 2: minute for nine dollars. So there you go, and you
Speaker 2: can probably does Becker Bloom have a dupe version of
Speaker 2: a van plet van rpels thrice around the neck chain?
Speaker 2: I don't think so, Amelia.
Speaker 3: What's your recommendation?
Speaker 1: Okay? So mine is a thing called a laughing yoga.
Speaker 3: It just doesn't seem that you are a million no, I've.
Speaker 1: Got like a real hippie street.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay. So it's done in my neighborhood by a lovely
Speaker 1: lady named Timoco. But you can look up places to
Speaker 1: practice it across Australia on the laughing yoga website Laughter
Speaker 1: Yoga Dash Australia dot org has classes. Basically, it's not
Speaker 1: really yoga at all. You stand around in a circle
Speaker 1: and you basically just laugh together. You do various exercises
Speaker 1: that are meant to trigger laughter. But the good news
Speaker 1: is that fake laughter and real laughter actually have the
Speaker 1: same effects on the body. Basically, they're a form of
Speaker 1: breath work. Like laughter is a form of breath work.
Speaker 1: You're taking in a whole ton of oxygen and then
Speaker 1: that's calming down your nervous system.
Speaker 2: So there's a group of I'm assuming mostly women, maybe
Speaker 2: not standing in a circle.
Speaker 1: I did take my partner along.
Speaker 2: Do you tell jokes like how do they like laugh?
Speaker 2: How do you have a comedian like?
Speaker 1: How so, for instance, one of them is you go
Speaker 1: ha ha ha ha ha. Because you're all doing it
Speaker 1: in this sort of circle together, it feels really silly.
Speaker 1: I took my partner and my best friend, and then
Speaker 1: we just felt so silly we just actually started laughing.
Speaker 1: And then by the end, laughter it it is contagious
Speaker 1: and it is sort of generative, like it builds on itself.
Speaker 1: So by the end you're practically hysterical and there are
Speaker 1: tears rolling down your face. And it's true that afterwards
Speaker 1: you feel incredibly calm because you're just taking in all
Speaker 1: this good oxygen and you didn't even have to do
Speaker 1: a downward dog.
Speaker 2: Ha ha ha ha.
Speaker 3: I like that as an idea. I like that a
Speaker 3: lot more than breathwork.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like a lot more than actual yoga
Speaker 1: because it doesn't involve corse strength.
Speaker 2: Do you have to do any bending around and stuff?
Speaker 1: You don't. You just start in this circle and you
Speaker 1: don't even really need to wear yoga clothes for it,
Speaker 1: because again, you're not moving that much.
Speaker 2: Don't have to wear soft pants, you don't.
Speaker 1: This class was followed by a sound bath, which was
Speaker 1: also lovely, where you lie down and the practitioner uses
Speaker 1: various singing bowls to create great sound frequencies that are
Speaker 1: meant to hum along with your body. But you don't
Speaker 1: have to do that. You can also just walk away
Speaker 1: from it and feel amazing and relaxed.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's amazing. I am recommending a drama on Netflix
Speaker 3: call Hostel with a lot of the out louders have
Speaker 3: messaged me about.
Speaker 2: If it ever comes down to a choice, you'll make
Speaker 2: the right one.
Speaker 1: You can't allow the French to dictate terms.
Speaker 2: You were meant to be the politician people could trust her.
Speaker 2: Nothing will distract me. Prime Minister for your husband has
Speaker 2: been abducted.
Speaker 1: Abil you need to resign this prime minister by tomorrow.
Speaker 3: I scrolled past it the first few times, and then
Speaker 3: I even read the synopsis and went, yeah, just kind
Speaker 3: of didn't grab me. Gave it ten minutes totally in
Speaker 3: It stars Saran Jones. She's this British actress who's in
Speaker 3: every British crime show.
Speaker 2: She's particularly an everything tense. Yeah, it's like she specializes,
Speaker 2: you know, intense things. Since which was the one.
Speaker 3: The Summer Green show it was called vigils Enough that
Speaker 3: was so so good. The premise is basically that she
Speaker 3: is the UK Prime Minister and her husband is a
Speaker 3: doctor who is working overseas and he is captured and
Speaker 3: held hostage, and it's about why these people are angry,
Speaker 3: what they want. Julie Delpi plays the President of France Swoon,
Speaker 3: who's also blackmailed, and she is before sunset. I've got
Speaker 3: a watch all of them.
Speaker 2: So heaven. And I know this is a sidebar because
Speaker 2: I'm watching this too, Jesse. Watching these two women in
Speaker 2: these really powerhouse roles is great. But Julie Delpi seeing her,
Speaker 2: I have not think I'd seen her much lately. No
Speaker 2: she looks amazing sidebar, but she looks amazing, French cool,
Speaker 2: the red lip, the red limp, fantastic. She and the
Speaker 2: tension between them and the story about her so good.
Speaker 3: It's great, And at no point is it even referenced
Speaker 3: or explored that they both happen to be female world leaders.
Speaker 1: It just is.
Speaker 3: It is such a good show. Really enjoyed it, and
Speaker 3: it's a mini It's five episodes, so it doesn't drag
Speaker 3: on non really good.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question This is not a
Speaker 2: spoiler's question, but so I'm an episode at the end
Speaker 2: of episode four, I've got one left, but I have
Speaker 2: to wait till I get home because Brent and I
Speaker 2: are watching it. Is the ending satisfying? Did they stick
Speaker 2: the landing?
Speaker 3: I found it's satisfying. Yes, But I would love to
Speaker 3: talk to people about the end of episode one. It
Speaker 3: just starts conversations between you and your partner where you
Speaker 3: look at each other and you go, hang on, would
Speaker 3: you quit your job?
Speaker 1: Yes? Save my life?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting conversation.
Speaker 2: A massive thank you to all of you out loud
Speaker 2: As for being here with us this week. We do
Speaker 2: appreciate you, and to our fabulous team. Of course we're
Speaker 2: putting it together. Oh a reminder, if you'd like to
Speaker 2: watch us as well as listen to us, we do
Speaker 2: all look spiffing today, don't we yea, and you can
Speaker 2: check out my blowy cheeks exactly right. Then, Remember that
Speaker 2: our episodes are all now on YouTube and you can
Speaker 2: actually watch them anytime. Just go in there look for
Speaker 2: Mama and me are out loud. You'll find it. We
Speaker 2: brush our hair, Jesse and Amelia reather out.
Speaker 3: A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Speaker 3: Ruth Devine, executive producers Emmeline Gazillis and Sasha tanic As.
Speaker 1: Senior audio producer is Leah Porge's video producer Josh Green,
Speaker 1: and our junior content producers are Coco and Tessa.
Speaker 3: Out loud as We know you're not ready to say goodbye.
Speaker 3: And we have a subscriber episode that we did yesterday
Speaker 3: which is all about family drama and if you could
Speaker 3: cut off your parents completely. It is a dilemma that
Speaker 3: was sent in from a listener.
Speaker 2: It is would you yes or no?
Speaker 3: You can listen via the link in our show notes.
Speaker 2: Jesse, I also want to tell all the out Louders
Speaker 2: about the extra episode of No Filter that dropped last
Speaker 2: week where you interview an amazing guy called Dr Muhammad
Speaker 2: Mustafa or Dr Moe as he's called kind of everywhere
Speaker 2: because he's a doctor from Western Australia and he has
Speaker 2: been over to Gaza twice since the war volunteering working
Speaker 2: in hospitals, particularly with children. So he's got this mission,
Speaker 2: I guess might be the right word, to establish a
Speaker 2: children's hospital in Gaza, a mobile children's hospital, and he
Speaker 2: wants it to be separate from government, separate from politics,
Speaker 2: and he's really pushing hard for that. I just thought
Speaker 2: it was an amazing conversation. I thought Dr Moe was
Speaker 2: so interesting and it's also that's also on YouTube if
Speaker 2: you want to watch it rather than.
Speaker 3: Listen, shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening.
Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us,
Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description