WEBVTT - Becca Bloom Invites You To Her Rich Person Wedding 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.342 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:22.221 that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 0:00:22.262 --> 0:00:24.782 Mamma Mia. Out loud. It's what women are actually talking 0:00:24.782 --> 0:00:28.062 about on Friday, the fifth of September. I'm Holly Wayne Wright, 0:00:28.101 --> 0:00:30.342 and I'm remembering that we used to always say to 0:00:30.342 --> 0:00:32.902 our out louders on a Friday, this is your place 0:00:33.101 --> 0:00:35.102 on Friday for a bit of relaxation. 0:00:35.582 --> 0:00:36.542 I love it, a. 0:00:36.502 --> 0:00:39.782 Break from anything newsy. This is just a place where 0:00:39.781 --> 0:00:42.222 we do a bit of thinky, a bit of piss takery, 0:00:42.542 --> 0:00:45.781 bit of fun, a bit of yep recos for your weekend. 0:00:46.142 --> 0:00:47.942 So welcome, relax. 0:00:48.582 --> 0:00:51.622 You're wearing a cobalt blue shirt, which is the perfect vibe. 0:00:55.742 --> 0:00:57.622 And I am Jesse Stevens and. 0:00:57.702 --> 0:01:01.662 On today's show, this is what made our agenda. First, 0:01:01.742 --> 0:01:05.261 the Google doc that will instantly divide everyone listening into 0:01:05.301 --> 0:01:06.142 two types of. 0:01:06.062 --> 0:01:11.022 People, plus our love hate relationship with rich people's. 0:01:10.301 --> 0:01:14.142 And your weekly recommendations including a brilliant Netflix drama, a 0:01:14.222 --> 0:01:17.862 strange fitness fad, and something very fancy for your face. 0:01:18.422 --> 0:01:23.142 But first, in case you missed it, headphones are making 0:01:23.182 --> 0:01:27.182 your anxiety worse. How so, specially your noise canceling ones. 0:01:27.302 --> 0:01:29.382 Do either of you use noise canceling headphones? 0:01:29.542 --> 0:01:32.622 Yes, you can pry my air pods playing pink noise 0:01:32.662 --> 0:01:33.502 out of my colder. 0:01:33.742 --> 0:01:37.822 Really okay? So, according to a piece by a woman 0:01:37.902 --> 0:01:41.062 named l Jones on Substack, there is a growing body 0:01:41.102 --> 0:01:45.302 of evidence to suggest that noise canceling headphones are causing 0:01:45.742 --> 0:01:49.662 hearing problems in young people. But also the reliance on 0:01:49.742 --> 0:01:52.702 them is creeping, and she's saying that this is not 0:01:52.862 --> 0:01:56.262 a good thing. So first you use them on the train, 0:01:56.302 --> 0:01:58.022 and then maybe you're at work, you're trying to concentrate, 0:01:58.062 --> 0:02:00.342 you put on your pink noise whatever it is, and 0:02:00.422 --> 0:02:02.822 eventually you've got them in because the hum of the 0:02:02.862 --> 0:02:07.382 refrigerator is irritating you. Important caveat as well for people 0:02:07.422 --> 0:02:10.582 with neurological conditions or who are neu divergent. There's an 0:02:10.582 --> 0:02:13.342 obvious exception, right, for a long time people have needed 0:02:13.422 --> 0:02:16.022 this kind of stuff, but for most they could be 0:02:16.102 --> 0:02:20.022 doing more harm than good. So audiology departments are reporting 0:02:20.142 --> 0:02:22.062 that more and more young people are coming in to 0:02:22.102 --> 0:02:25.102 get their hearing checked, and when they do check the hearing, 0:02:25.181 --> 0:02:27.542 they say it's not an issue with your hearing, but 0:02:27.582 --> 0:02:30.542 with your listening, so the part of your brains. 0:02:31.181 --> 0:02:34.142 All children have that problem, the listening problem. It's just 0:02:34.462 --> 0:02:35.942 that they can't hear you when you tell them to 0:02:35.982 --> 0:02:37.022 do things they don't want to do. 0:02:37.222 --> 0:02:40.862 Yes, well, apparently the headphones are making it worse. So 0:02:41.222 --> 0:02:43.702 it's the processing of the sound. They're not doing it 0:02:43.742 --> 0:02:47.302 as much. Filtering out noise from the car alarm to 0:02:47.342 --> 0:02:50.742 the barking dog is a skill that strengthens with practice, 0:02:50.862 --> 0:02:53.262 which we have evolved to be able to do. And 0:02:53.342 --> 0:02:55.942 if you start to control for all of that, then 0:02:55.942 --> 0:02:58.942 when you are confronted with an unexpected noise like a 0:02:58.982 --> 0:03:03.061 door slamming, that leads to really high levels of anxiety. 0:03:03.702 --> 0:03:06.422 The suggestion is that we go back to wide headphones, 0:03:07.022 --> 0:03:09.262 or we walk around with nothing in our ears and 0:03:09.302 --> 0:03:11.742 we reconnect with our environment. 0:03:11.942 --> 0:03:14.982 What do we think. I've got those air pods that 0:03:15.262 --> 0:03:19.662 cancel surround sound, and I coveted them for ages. I 0:03:19.702 --> 0:03:22.382 heard someone fancy on a podcast talking about them once 0:03:22.462 --> 0:03:24.782 and I was like, that's what I need, and I 0:03:24.822 --> 0:03:27.902 bought them as a treat. Because they're expensive. I'm in 0:03:27.942 --> 0:03:30.782 a love hate relationship with them, which is why this 0:03:31.022 --> 0:03:35.022 does resonate because prosecco problems, it's like you put them 0:03:35.062 --> 0:03:39.262 in and you feel very disconnected from the world suddenly, 0:03:39.302 --> 0:03:40.702 and you're like, yeah, I wanted to listen to my 0:03:40.742 --> 0:03:42.982 podcast and my music, but I didn't necessarily want to 0:03:43.022 --> 0:03:46.382 be completely cut off from everybody else. But then the 0:03:46.422 --> 0:03:49.342 problem is you get addicted to them, and now if 0:03:49.342 --> 0:03:52.102 they're not in noise canceling, I don't feel like I 0:03:52.142 --> 0:03:54.702 can focus. So I think they're like, as you say, 0:03:54.702 --> 0:03:57.182 it's like it's a learning the other thing that's annoying 0:03:57.222 --> 0:04:01.422 about them. And again, prosecco problems, they turn down when 0:04:01.502 --> 0:04:04.222 someone talks to you, these fancy ones really, So if 0:04:04.222 --> 0:04:05.862 you come up to me and you're like, Holly, I 0:04:05.862 --> 0:04:08.702 needed a blah, it turns down. And the thing about 0:04:08.702 --> 0:04:09.942 that is I don't want to listen to you. I 0:04:09.942 --> 0:04:12.982 want to listen to my So I'm like, shut up, 0:04:13.062 --> 0:04:15.982 I've just missed the five really important words that Megan 0:04:16.022 --> 0:04:19.102 Markle just said in her latest four hour interview, so 0:04:19.142 --> 0:04:20.541 that you could tell me it was time to go 0:04:20.582 --> 0:04:22.261 and do some work. I don't know into it. 0:04:22.382 --> 0:04:25.462 I find them very claustrophobic. I don't like the feeling. 0:04:25.462 --> 0:04:28.421 I think it's interesting to think about how the ubiquity 0:04:28.421 --> 0:04:31.342 of them has changed our relationship with the world en 0:04:31.421 --> 0:04:34.421 mass and I think back to that Apple ad, which 0:04:34.462 --> 0:04:36.821 I know that you lot loved, but I was depressed 0:04:36.821 --> 0:04:40.701 by the Pedro Pascal where he's walking through a busy 0:04:40.741 --> 0:04:43.262 city street and the seasons past the four year passes, 0:04:43.262 --> 0:04:45.061 and I believe he's getting over a breakup and then 0:04:45.061 --> 0:04:48.381 he needs someone new. I found it profoundly depressing because, 0:04:48.582 --> 0:04:52.342 setting aside the dreaminess of Pedro Pascal, what you saw 0:04:52.421 --> 0:04:55.341 there was he was completely disconnected from all these amazing 0:04:55.381 --> 0:04:57.462 things that were happening around him because he had his 0:04:57.501 --> 0:04:59.821 air pods in, and it struck me as almost sinister. 0:05:00.101 --> 0:05:01.782 No one can sell me the end of the world 0:05:01.902 --> 0:05:02.342 like Pedro. 0:05:03.861 --> 0:05:06.182 I hate as well that I have friends who are 0:05:06.181 --> 0:05:08.582 dealing with you know, newborns or whatever at home, and 0:05:08.782 --> 0:05:12.022 one of them does headphones when they're trying to sleep whatever, 0:05:12.061 --> 0:05:13.782 which I semi get. But it's also like, at what 0:05:13.902 --> 0:05:16.662 point is our house being robbed and we don't know? 0:05:16.861 --> 0:05:19.821 At what point has a plane crashed in our backyard 0:05:20.101 --> 0:05:21.301 and we are not aware. 0:05:21.342 --> 0:05:22.181 They're not that good. 0:05:22.342 --> 0:05:27.022 I need to mention ear Wax look it's Friday. Yeah. 0:05:27.582 --> 0:05:30.901 I often think about the compacting of earwax that is 0:05:30.941 --> 0:05:33.902 happening when we jam those air pods into our areas. Now, 0:05:33.941 --> 0:05:36.421 this is not based in anything scientific apart from a 0:05:36.421 --> 0:05:38.861 feeling that I am compacting earwax. Is that just a 0:05:38.902 --> 0:05:39.462 me problem? 0:05:39.662 --> 0:05:41.222 No, that's a really good question. 0:05:41.262 --> 0:05:41.822 I wonder. 0:05:42.222 --> 0:05:45.662 No, But I wonder if constant wearing is not good right, 0:05:45.702 --> 0:05:48.141 because I've got friends who have talked about going to 0:05:48.181 --> 0:05:51.101 the doctor realizing they've got lots, get it all sorted, 0:05:51.101 --> 0:05:53.302 and suddenly everything's really loud, and it all is a 0:05:53.301 --> 0:05:53.941 great feeling. 0:05:54.061 --> 0:05:57.342 And some people, such as maybe me, go to sleep 0:05:57.381 --> 0:05:59.821 sometimes with the air pods in listening to the Ezra 0:05:59.902 --> 0:06:03.382 Cline podcast, and look, I know that's a sickness. But 0:06:03.462 --> 0:06:05.662 I just worry about the ear wax situation. 0:06:05.941 --> 0:06:07.782 I know. I would like a doctor to please tell 0:06:07.902 --> 0:06:10.262 us if we should be worried about that, if that's 0:06:10.301 --> 0:06:12.022 also making it worse for our ears. 0:06:12.222 --> 0:06:15.461 I will say that Jennifer Aniston was recently photographed with 0:06:15.662 --> 0:06:20.981 the old school apple wire earbuds, and it made me think, 0:06:21.142 --> 0:06:23.261 that's a woman that knows how to live. And if 0:06:23.301 --> 0:06:25.902 she's got the wired ones back, maybe we should all 0:06:25.941 --> 0:06:26.461 be doing. 0:06:26.262 --> 0:06:28.741 It, if only she was aspirational to the young people. 0:06:28.782 --> 0:06:32.301 Because the kids nag parents for air pods, right, you know, teenagers, 0:06:32.342 --> 0:06:35.701 tween ages, and they're very expensive and they are exceptionally 0:06:35.741 --> 0:06:38.941 easy to lose. So usually you resist and you resist, 0:06:38.981 --> 0:06:40.422 and then they might get a pair of old ones 0:06:40.462 --> 0:06:43.141 or whatever. But if the wired ones were still cool, 0:06:43.861 --> 0:06:45.181 there's so much more affordable. 0:06:45.582 --> 0:06:47.981 I've had wireless ones stolen off a pram, and I 0:06:48.061 --> 0:06:51.541 have had my air pods. I leave the box everywhere, 0:06:51.582 --> 0:06:53.181 like I just I've left the box on a plane 0:06:53.222 --> 0:06:55.342 and stuff. I get my wireless back in. 0:06:55.462 --> 0:06:58.462 I want to track a single left air bud as 0:06:58.462 --> 0:07:01.101 it traveled the world after I left it on a plane. 0:07:01.421 --> 0:07:05.342 Having a little adventure without you. Sit with me, friends, 0:07:05.702 --> 0:07:09.782 while we get very real about something. Approximately half you 0:07:09.862 --> 0:07:12.342 are going to find this very useful. What we're about 0:07:12.381 --> 0:07:15.381 to talk about. You're either already doing it or you 0:07:15.422 --> 0:07:18.622 will immediately start at Google doc when we stop talking today. 0:07:19.022 --> 0:07:22.021 The other half will throw their phone in the ocean. 0:07:22.102 --> 0:07:24.542 That's me, Yeah, here we go. Let me tell you 0:07:24.582 --> 0:07:28.422 why it's about death. I know it's Friday. I know 0:07:28.462 --> 0:07:30.581 we promised you fun, but I promise you This is 0:07:30.662 --> 0:07:34.222 very interesting and it may change your life. It starts 0:07:34.222 --> 0:07:37.862 with the newsletter, right. This newsletter was titled the Most 0:07:37.902 --> 0:07:40.781 Loving Thing You Can Do, and it's by Elie Lernon. 0:07:41.262 --> 0:07:43.461 Now she writes this newsletter called Pulling the Thread. She 0:07:43.582 --> 0:07:46.022 used to work for Goop, and I subscribe to this 0:07:46.102 --> 0:07:49.422 newsletter because I thought one day, one day, she's going 0:07:49.502 --> 0:07:51.142 to spill all the beans. 0:07:50.742 --> 0:07:53.382 About Okay, you're a prescribe for the Gossip and you 0:07:53.462 --> 0:07:53.862 got death. 0:07:53.982 --> 0:07:57.702 Yeah, because here we are. NDA's Alasia ain't never gonna 0:07:57.742 --> 0:08:00.261 tell us what really went down at Goop. But she's 0:08:00.302 --> 0:08:02.342 also a writer and a speaker, and she's been on 0:08:02.381 --> 0:08:04.862 no filter. She's like, she's a really interesting woman. Anyway, 0:08:05.381 --> 0:08:07.982 As I say, this newsletter was called the most Loving 0:08:08.022 --> 0:08:10.862 Thing You can Do. She writes that eight years ago 0:08:11.222 --> 0:08:14.982 she lost her brother in law, her brother's beloved partner, Pete, 0:08:15.062 --> 0:08:19.021 and she says, every year, to honor Pete's passing, I 0:08:19.102 --> 0:08:22.102 do a little bit of personal housekeeping that might strike 0:08:22.142 --> 0:08:25.622 you as morbid, but I believe it's actually the most 0:08:25.662 --> 0:08:27.742 loving thing you can do for the people you love. 0:08:28.381 --> 0:08:31.222 In August, every year, I go through a document that 0:08:31.342 --> 0:08:33.742 is shared with my husband and my brother and I 0:08:33.902 --> 0:08:39.862 update any critical information in the event I might unexpectedly die. Now, 0:08:39.982 --> 0:08:42.062 what do you think. I'll tell you what she puts 0:08:42.062 --> 0:08:43.662 in it. But what's your first reactions? 0:08:43.822 --> 0:08:46.902 My reaction is to sit down and do that would 0:08:46.902 --> 0:08:50.022 be to accept an inevitability. I am not prepared yet 0:08:50.102 --> 0:08:50.662 to accept. 0:08:51.262 --> 0:08:53.382 This is the two types of people argument, Amelia. How 0:08:53.422 --> 0:08:54.542 are you feeling about it so far? 0:08:54.662 --> 0:08:56.902 I hate opening Google docs at the best of times. 0:08:57.102 --> 0:08:57.982 Alone one about death? 0:08:58.142 --> 0:09:01.422 Okay, here we go. She talks about how the practicalities 0:09:01.422 --> 0:09:03.942 of death, from immediate arrangements to the cancelation of so 0:09:04.022 --> 0:09:07.422 many parts of someone's life, everything from credit cards to 0:09:07.502 --> 0:09:11.022 bank accounts to social media accounts, are often beyond the 0:09:11.062 --> 0:09:14.702 abilities of the closest mourners right when somebody loses somebody, 0:09:15.062 --> 0:09:18.862 And also it's really hard to uncover and excavate, she writes. 0:09:19.102 --> 0:09:21.022 You want the people you love to be able to 0:09:21.102 --> 0:09:24.542 mourn without needing to hack into your email account. You 0:09:24.582 --> 0:09:27.302 don't want your partner or siblings guessing where you might 0:09:27.342 --> 0:09:30.382 have bank accounts. Most importantly, you want to give your 0:09:30.382 --> 0:09:32.902 people the opportunity to honor you in the way you 0:09:32.942 --> 0:09:36.662 would most appreciate. Nobody wants to guess about that. Here's 0:09:36.702 --> 0:09:38.302 an example of just some of the things she lists 0:09:38.342 --> 0:09:42.102 in this Google doc. Email passwords, right, so email accounts 0:09:42.102 --> 0:09:45.262 and passwords, phone and computer codes. So this is my 0:09:45.302 --> 0:09:48.502 passcode to my iPhone, this is my password to my computer. 0:09:48.982 --> 0:09:52.502 Mortgage details, other debts, life insurance, home insurance, car insurance, 0:09:52.502 --> 0:09:55.542 club and gym memberships. And then there's some less practical, 0:09:55.622 --> 0:09:58.062 more personal stuff like I would like my organs to 0:09:58.062 --> 0:10:00.222 be donated, yes, no, that kind of stuff. I would 0:10:00.262 --> 0:10:02.622 like my body to be buried or cremated, yes, snow, 0:10:02.942 --> 0:10:05.022 I would like to be buried in this location. So 0:10:05.102 --> 0:10:08.262 basically your wishes. Put it all in one document that 0:10:08.302 --> 0:10:11.381 the people closest to you you know exactly where it is. 0:10:11.942 --> 0:10:14.142 And she says, this is the most loving thing you 0:10:14.182 --> 0:10:14.582 can do. 0:10:15.302 --> 0:10:21.102 Thoughts, it's clearly a brilliant idea and a very important 0:10:21.462 --> 0:10:23.582 thing to do. And there are a lot of people 0:10:23.622 --> 0:10:26.302 I know whose families have been torn apart by trying 0:10:26.302 --> 0:10:28.822 to make these decisions by committee in the wake of 0:10:28.862 --> 0:10:33.062 someone's death. That would just be awful. But it's a 0:10:33.102 --> 0:10:35.662 really hard conversation to broach with someone I know that 0:10:35.702 --> 0:10:38.862 there are books that are basically like here's what to 0:10:38.902 --> 0:10:41.982 do if I die? And it's like a spreadsheet, but 0:10:42.102 --> 0:10:43.702 it's like a little organizer. 0:10:44.302 --> 0:10:46.022 What birthday do you go? 0:10:46.422 --> 0:10:47.782 Happy eightieth dad? 0:10:48.022 --> 0:10:48.662 Here's a gift? 0:10:48.982 --> 0:10:50.822 Like, how do you even see. 0:10:50.742 --> 0:10:51.342 The tricky part? 0:10:51.502 --> 0:10:53.582 Broach that? And I think the other reason why people 0:10:53.582 --> 0:10:57.182 are hesitant is because they're actually crippled with indecision about 0:10:57.182 --> 0:10:59.502 some of those things. Obviously there are quite clear things 0:10:59.502 --> 0:11:01.662 like here's my email password, blah blah blah. But the 0:11:01.702 --> 0:11:04.462 thing of where do I want to be buried? How 0:11:04.462 --> 0:11:07.102 do I want to be remembered? What do you want 0:11:07.102 --> 0:11:09.102 the music? I'm like, I have no idea. 0:11:09.542 --> 0:11:11.702 It's not compulsory that you put all that stuff in. 0:11:11.822 --> 0:11:13.302 You could just do the practical things. 0:11:13.462 --> 0:11:16.662 And her point is really clever, which is we all 0:11:17.182 --> 0:11:21.102 think this is, you know, a privilege. But some people 0:11:21.542 --> 0:11:24.622 you know obviously have a diagnosis or something which changes 0:11:24.662 --> 0:11:26.662 how the rest of their life looks. But most of 0:11:26.742 --> 0:11:28.862 us are going, we'll live forrages. I don't need to 0:11:28.862 --> 0:11:30.822 think about that. But she's saying, no, my brother in 0:11:30.902 --> 0:11:34.622 law drop dead and left his family with a lot 0:11:34.622 --> 0:11:37.702 of admin. So I suppose I see some people in 0:11:37.742 --> 0:11:40.382 this life stage going okay, let's get the death stuff 0:11:40.382 --> 0:11:41.702 out of the way, so we can go on living 0:11:41.702 --> 0:11:43.942 and we don't have to think about it anymore. But 0:11:44.062 --> 0:11:46.702 I also think that the two types of people is 0:11:47.342 --> 0:11:50.182 some are so comfortable with dying. There are people in 0:11:50.222 --> 0:11:54.102 my life at all different ages who are so comfortable 0:11:54.342 --> 0:11:58.182 with that reality they can talk about it. And then 0:11:58.182 --> 0:12:00.822 there are others. Again, some of them are young, some 0:12:00.862 --> 0:12:03.102 of them are old who will just never come to 0:12:03.182 --> 0:12:05.022 terms with it and it's always going to be something 0:12:05.062 --> 0:12:07.542 that they try to avoid. And I think I'm in 0:12:07.582 --> 0:12:08.262 the latter camp. 0:12:08.502 --> 0:12:10.742 Look as you were talking, Holly, I realized I was 0:12:10.822 --> 0:12:14.462 physically recoiling from my microphone. So that speaks to my 0:12:14.462 --> 0:12:17.062 own personal comfort with this subject. But it did put 0:12:17.102 --> 0:12:19.662 to mind a New Yorker story from twenty ten that 0:12:19.702 --> 0:12:22.102 has stayed with me for fifteen years. Maybe it's the 0:12:22.142 --> 0:12:25.062 most powerful article I've ever read. It was by the 0:12:25.102 --> 0:12:27.822 physician a tool Go one day, who writes a lot 0:12:27.862 --> 0:12:31.462 about public health and about how individuals can live healthier lives. 0:12:31.702 --> 0:12:33.542 But this article is called letting Go, and it was 0:12:33.542 --> 0:12:36.502 about the importance of talking to people you love about 0:12:36.702 --> 0:12:39.782 what they value in life and what they are prepared 0:12:39.782 --> 0:12:41.742 to put up with when it comes to medical care, 0:12:42.222 --> 0:12:45.662 and he makes the point that people, until very recently, 0:12:45.742 --> 0:12:48.982 dying was typically a very brief process, and these days, 0:12:49.102 --> 0:12:52.422 a catastrophic sudden illness is of course possible, and we 0:12:52.462 --> 0:12:55.302 all know people to whom that's happened, but it's much 0:12:55.422 --> 0:12:57.982 rarer than it used to be. So as a result, 0:12:58.142 --> 0:13:02.222 the dying process has become incredibly prolonged, and we sort 0:13:02.222 --> 0:13:06.182 of expect doctors and medical practitioners to do everything they 0:13:06.262 --> 0:13:08.982 can to prolong it, even when we or our loved 0:13:08.982 --> 0:13:11.462 ones might not want that. And he tells this one 0:13:11.502 --> 0:13:13.822 story that I will never forget in this article, which 0:13:13.862 --> 0:13:17.542 is this daughter spoke to her dying father about what 0:13:17.662 --> 0:13:20.862 he wanted in terms of medical care, and he said. 0:13:20.862 --> 0:13:23.742 The conversation was agonizing. There's no sugarcoating it. It was 0:13:23.862 --> 0:13:26.862 incredibly difficult for both this daughter and her father, and 0:13:26.902 --> 0:13:29.142 he had this illness, and she said, what are you 0:13:29.142 --> 0:13:31.382 prepared to put up with? He said, as long as 0:13:31.422 --> 0:13:33.862 I can keep eating chocolate ice cream, I'm watching football 0:13:33.902 --> 0:13:35.622 on TV. I want to stick around and I want 0:13:35.622 --> 0:13:37.982 to fight. But when I can't do those things anymore, 0:13:37.982 --> 0:13:40.102 I don't want to be here. And so it became 0:13:40.142 --> 0:13:42.782 a litmus test whenever he had a surgery, it was like, well, 0:13:42.822 --> 0:13:44.702 will he be able to eat chocolate ice cream and 0:13:44.742 --> 0:13:47.542 watch football and TV after this? If yes, go ahead. 0:13:47.622 --> 0:13:50.142 And then eventually it got to the point where he 0:13:50.182 --> 0:13:53.142 couldn't eat anymore. He couldn't eat chocolate ice cream, he 0:13:53.142 --> 0:13:55.422 couldn't eat anything. So at that point they knew he 0:13:55.422 --> 0:13:58.782 had to move to hospice. It's just the most powerful idea. 0:13:58.982 --> 0:14:01.262 This is really interesting because it's the thing is there 0:14:01.302 --> 0:14:03.382 are different groups of people who talk about this in 0:14:03.422 --> 0:14:03.982 a different way. 0:14:04.062 --> 0:14:04.262 Right. 0:14:04.422 --> 0:14:08.822 What you're describing there in terms of is like they 0:14:08.862 --> 0:14:10.982 often call it a need of advanced care. Where you 0:14:11.102 --> 0:14:13.542 get somebody who is, you know, maybe edging towards that 0:14:13.582 --> 0:14:15.422 part of their life to write down or their wishes 0:14:15.462 --> 0:14:18.302 in case things happen to them which are more about 0:14:18.342 --> 0:14:20.782 their own care and as you say, at what place 0:14:20.782 --> 0:14:24.462 they want intervention. That's also a really difficult conversation to 0:14:24.502 --> 0:14:27.222 breach with people. But what an excellent filter. 0:14:27.622 --> 0:14:29.582 Yeah, and it can be called a living will. 0:14:29.662 --> 0:14:32.342 It can be called a living will exactly. And when 0:14:32.382 --> 0:14:35.142 I interviewed this amazing woman called doctor Jackie Bailey on 0:14:35.222 --> 0:14:39.462 mid last year, she said, ideally everybody who's older should 0:14:39.502 --> 0:14:40.822 have one of those, and she said, you know, if 0:14:40.822 --> 0:14:43.822 they're not googled dot kind of people, output in a 0:14:43.862 --> 0:14:45.622 plastic folder, keep it on top of the fridge, tell 0:14:45.622 --> 0:14:47.302 everybody where it is, and just leave it there. And 0:14:47.302 --> 0:14:48.982 it's got that kind of stuff and if you care 0:14:49.022 --> 0:14:50.902 about it, the funeral stuff and all those kind of things, 0:14:50.942 --> 0:14:53.102 and maybe some of these things that Alice Lehman is 0:14:53.142 --> 0:14:57.182 talking about too. The tricky part is, as you've touched on, Jesse, 0:14:57.502 --> 0:14:59.382 is there are two types of people. I know because 0:14:59.422 --> 0:15:02.342 I'm in this live stage where most of my peer 0:15:02.382 --> 0:15:05.542 group is going through various degrees of issues with their 0:15:05.582 --> 0:15:10.182 parents around illness, health, ongoing, quality of life, and dying. 0:15:10.862 --> 0:15:14.302 And there are some people whose parents are fighting fit 0:15:14.342 --> 0:15:16.262 at the moment, but they are death cleaning like crazy, 0:15:16.302 --> 0:15:18.662 you know, clearing out the garage, clearing out the attic, 0:15:19.182 --> 0:15:21.942 deciding to downside, making all these very practive decisions, and 0:15:21.982 --> 0:15:23.302 they're like, I don't want you to have to worry 0:15:23.342 --> 0:15:25.462 about this. And then there's the second group of people 0:15:25.542 --> 0:15:28.302 to the two types of people argument, who are like, going, 0:15:28.422 --> 0:15:30.702 I want to live my life exactly as I've always 0:15:30.742 --> 0:15:32.582 lived my life for as long as I possibly can, 0:15:32.902 --> 0:15:34.862 and then when something goes pair shaped, we'll deal with 0:15:34.902 --> 0:15:37.302 it then, right. And the thing is is that, as 0:15:37.342 --> 0:15:40.462 any adult children of parents will say, is that can 0:15:40.502 --> 0:15:43.502 be that can be very difficult for them when the 0:15:43.542 --> 0:15:46.982 inevitable happens. But is it fair to try and force 0:15:47.062 --> 0:15:50.502 someone into a very difficult conversation to make your life 0:15:50.542 --> 0:15:52.582 more convenient? You know what I mean? And I'm being 0:15:52.622 --> 0:15:54.342 flippant when I say that, because I know there's a 0:15:54.342 --> 0:15:56.582 lot more to it than Oh, it would be convenient 0:15:56.622 --> 0:15:58.182 for me if I knew what all the passwords were 0:15:58.222 --> 0:16:00.062 and I knew exactly what you wanted to do. But 0:16:00.782 --> 0:16:04.182 it's difficult. But what Dr Jackie Bailey suggested to me, 0:16:04.222 --> 0:16:06.262 because she said, some people who are very uncomfortable with 0:16:06.262 --> 0:16:08.542 talking about death, you've got to provoke them into it. 0:16:08.582 --> 0:16:11.302 This was one of her tips. So she said, for example, 0:16:11.422 --> 0:16:14.062 if your parents or some person that you love who's 0:16:14.102 --> 0:16:16.702 going through this, you know, for example that maybe they 0:16:16.702 --> 0:16:20.382 are very non religious, provoke them with something like so 0:16:20.462 --> 0:16:25.982 obviously you'd want a priest to come, or I know 0:16:26.022 --> 0:16:29.302 what song you'd like? You love blah blah blah, and 0:16:29.422 --> 0:16:31.782 you'd be like Daisies by Justin Biebe. You'd like that 0:16:31.782 --> 0:16:33.942 would you know whatever, and they'll be like what, And 0:16:33.982 --> 0:16:37.742 she said, provoke them into talking about it, because that's 0:16:37.822 --> 0:16:39.782 often a way to kind of get the ball rolling 0:16:39.822 --> 0:16:42.102 in a fashion that's a bit more accessible. And then 0:16:42.142 --> 0:16:44.302 the other thing she said, which is to the elast 0:16:44.342 --> 0:16:48.382 learmon thing, is she's encouraging people who aren't elderly to 0:16:48.462 --> 0:16:52.302 do this in case of unexpected eventualities. Doctor Bailey told 0:16:52.342 --> 0:16:54.102 me that we should all be doing it anyway, because 0:16:54.142 --> 0:16:56.022 then we'll have a better understanding of what it's like 0:16:56.062 --> 0:16:58.222 for our parents. Like if you've done it yourself. 0:16:58.702 --> 0:16:59.862 Oh, that's such a good point. 0:17:00.102 --> 0:17:03.062 If you've done it yourself, then then you know like 0:17:03.182 --> 0:17:05.702 what it's like and how confronting it is and things 0:17:05.742 --> 0:17:08.182 for your parents. But the thing is is for elderly people, 0:17:08.702 --> 0:17:11.182 it is so fronting to suddenly be told, well, think 0:17:11.182 --> 0:17:13.381 about it, mum, Like how many someone's do you think 0:17:13.422 --> 0:17:14.981 you've got? You know what I mean? Like it's so 0:17:15.341 --> 0:17:17.661 up close, and some people are comfortable and some people 0:17:17.702 --> 0:17:18.262 just start. 0:17:18.061 --> 0:17:21.182 Huh yeah, I think too. The living will thing is 0:17:21.422 --> 0:17:23.542 really interesting. And I was speaking to someone last year 0:17:23.742 --> 0:17:27.982 about AI advancements and they were saying that there is 0:17:28.222 --> 0:17:32.542 this new technology that they're developing, which is basically the 0:17:32.581 --> 0:17:36.741 way that AI can scan your medical records, your preferences, 0:17:36.742 --> 0:17:40.901 conversations you've had with doctors, whatever, and predict what you 0:17:40.942 --> 0:17:44.381 would want at a stage. So someone who for example, 0:17:44.581 --> 0:17:46.782 the one that I think about a lot is dementia, 0:17:46.942 --> 0:17:49.382 and that can progress really fast, and it's really hard 0:17:49.381 --> 0:17:52.142 when someone gets a diagnosis to go, all right, what 0:17:52.141 --> 0:17:55.981 are you like? Talk about just you know, worse nightmare, 0:17:56.022 --> 0:17:57.821 what you don't even want to think about down the track, 0:17:57.861 --> 0:18:00.581 But it's going what would this person want? And that's 0:18:00.581 --> 0:18:02.382 the thing that families are grappling with all the time. 0:18:02.381 --> 0:18:03.901 Would they want to be here? Would they want to 0:18:03.942 --> 0:18:04.341 be here? 0:18:04.462 --> 0:18:07.782 And the ambiguity of dementia and the way it makes 0:18:07.821 --> 0:18:10.622 ambiguous what the persons suffering from it would want has 0:18:10.661 --> 0:18:13.861 come up just this week because Bruce Willis's wife is 0:18:13.982 --> 0:18:16.341 under all sorts of scrutiny because she's come out and 0:18:16.381 --> 0:18:20.101 said that she lives separately from Bruce Willis because she 0:18:20.302 --> 0:18:22.621 thinks that their children need a little bit of space 0:18:22.661 --> 0:18:25.142 from him, and she said that that's best for them, 0:18:25.141 --> 0:18:26.782 but she's facing a lot of flag for it. 0:18:26.901 --> 0:18:29.221 Yeah, And to be fair, she said that They've built 0:18:29.621 --> 0:18:31.982 a beautiful, comfortable home for him, with everything he'd want. 0:18:32.022 --> 0:18:34.821 It's not just like off you go, Bruce. But yeah, 0:18:34.861 --> 0:18:37.941 so much criticism. It's really interesting. We'll put a link 0:18:37.982 --> 0:18:40.141 to the newsletter about the Google doc in the show 0:18:40.141 --> 0:18:43.261 notes and to the interview do to Jackie Bailey. And 0:18:43.341 --> 0:18:46.022