WEBVTT - Meet The Anonymous Host Of Casefile 0:00:11.542 --> 0:00:16.142 You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges 0:00:16.222 --> 0:00:19.662 the traditional owners of land and waders. This podcast was 0:00:19.702 --> 0:00:24.942 recorded on to some he's known as the anonymous host. 0:00:26.022 --> 0:00:31.302 Others have nicknamed him Casey. If you're listening to this podcast. 0:00:31.262 --> 0:00:34.862 And you're a fan of true crime, you'll probably recognize 0:00:34.862 --> 0:00:35.382 this voice. 0:00:35.502 --> 0:00:38.342 Asking's indicating they'd applied the patches in the lead up 0:00:38.422 --> 0:00:42.822 to their deaths Stranger Still, the evidence suggests that the 0:00:42.862 --> 0:00:44.182 couple had ingested, but. 0:00:44.182 --> 0:00:47.262 The host of Australian true crime podcast case File has 0:00:47.342 --> 0:00:51.862 kept his identity secret for nine years and so far that's. 0:00:51.582 --> 0:00:53.262 Been working pretty well for him. 0:00:53.702 --> 0:00:55.982 Casey might not let us tell you his real name, 0:00:56.902 --> 0:01:08.462 but that doesn't mean we can't tell you his story. 0:01:08.902 --> 0:01:12.382 I'm Jemma Bass and this is True Crime Conversations amom 0:01:12.382 --> 0:01:15.702 of Me, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes 0:01:16.102 --> 0:01:18.942 by speaking to the people who know the most about them. 0:01:19.382 --> 0:01:22.102 We've got a bit of a different episode for you today. 0:01:22.862 --> 0:01:25.422 Case File is what you would call one of our 0:01:25.862 --> 0:01:29.622 direct competitors. We both work in the Australian true crime 0:01:29.662 --> 0:01:32.742 podcasting space and we're regularly up against them in the 0:01:32.822 --> 0:01:39.222 various podcasting charts. They're wildly popular, often number one, with 0:01:39.302 --> 0:01:42.542 people all over the world attracted to the podcast's distinct, 0:01:42.822 --> 0:01:47.142 no frills approach to storytelling. It all started with one 0:01:47.382 --> 0:01:51.622 typical Aussie bloke as he calls himself in his spare room, 0:01:51.742 --> 0:01:54.582 deciding to give podcasting a go while recovering from a 0:01:54.622 --> 0:01:58.982 sporting injury. Now the anonymous host and his team are 0:01:58.982 --> 0:02:02.302 in the years of more than eight hundred thousand people 0:02:02.502 --> 0:02:07.862 every month. He doesn't really do interviews, you'll only find 0:02:07.902 --> 0:02:10.422 one or two on the internet, but we managed to 0:02:10.462 --> 0:02:13.302 convinced him to come into Momma mea HQ for an 0:02:13.302 --> 0:02:17.702 exclusive sit down chat. I don't know what I was 0:02:18.302 --> 0:02:21.382 meeting him in real life. He wasn't not what I 0:02:21.422 --> 0:02:25.462 was expecting. Probably more clean cut than the descriptor he 0:02:25.502 --> 0:02:28.142 gives of being a typical Aussie bloke, but maybe that's 0:02:28.222 --> 0:02:32.302 just me being too stereotypical. The feedback from my colleagues 0:02:32.302 --> 0:02:35.382 who sneak to peak is that he's younger than they imagined. 0:02:35.542 --> 0:02:36.862 Make of that what you will. 0:02:37.782 --> 0:02:41.182 And when I say sneak to peak, several of my 0:02:41.302 --> 0:02:45.742 colleagues not only hobbed, but chased this man down the 0:02:45.782 --> 0:02:49.502 halls of our office. Honestly, there was more excitement in 0:02:49.542 --> 0:02:53.542 here than when we have some Hollywood celebs grace our halls. 0:02:54.622 --> 0:02:58.022 Please enjoy my chat with the anonymous host of case File. 0:02:59.862 --> 0:03:02.582 I'm going to start with some quick fire questions, getting 0:03:02.582 --> 0:03:03.622 to know you questions. 0:03:03.902 --> 0:03:06.782 I will accept no comment if I have to. 0:03:07.262 --> 0:03:12.942 Okay, sounds good, favorite sport, Rugby league, favorite food. 0:03:14.982 --> 0:03:15.182 Toy. 0:03:15.382 --> 0:03:16.982 That was a toughie. You had to think about that. 0:03:17.102 --> 0:03:19.222 Yeah, it was Indian maybe. 0:03:19.462 --> 0:03:21.262 Favorite song and or artists. 0:03:22.222 --> 0:03:27.342 Favorite song Flowers and You by touche A Moore, very specific. 0:03:27.822 --> 0:03:30.422 It's getting quite the play at the moment. It's not new, 0:03:30.462 --> 0:03:33.022 it's actually probably ten years old now. But good song. 0:03:33.942 --> 0:03:38.742 Favorite thing to do on the weekend, golf, favorite place 0:03:38.822 --> 0:03:44.422 in Australia, Blue Mountains, m TV. 0:03:44.262 --> 0:03:49.942 Show cobra Qui what Yeah, just because it's so tacky 0:03:50.182 --> 0:03:54.422 and cheesy, but they really lean into it. And I 0:03:54.502 --> 0:03:56.062 was a fan of the Karate Kid movies when I 0:03:56.102 --> 0:03:58.582 was young, so it's a bit of a nostalgia thing. 0:03:58.742 --> 0:04:00.822 It's like it's bad, but it's good bad. 0:04:01.942 --> 0:04:04.382 If you could have dinner with anyone alive or dead, 0:04:04.502 --> 0:04:05.142 who would it be? 0:04:06.502 --> 0:04:13.622 Kirk Cabaine Ooh, I'm hearing a music yeah, big music fan. Yeah, well, 0:04:13.862 --> 0:04:18.782 or actually Kirk Cobaine or Cliff Burton original Metallica basis. 0:04:18.902 --> 0:04:20.502 Okay, Well, there we go. 0:04:20.542 --> 0:04:22.262 I feel like I've learned more about you in the 0:04:22.342 --> 0:04:24.822 last few minutes than I can find on the entire Internet. 0:04:25.942 --> 0:04:28.022 And I'm not actually allowed to tell listeners your name. 0:04:28.582 --> 0:04:32.582 It's been nine years of you making case file. Have 0:04:32.702 --> 0:04:36.182 you ever considered just revealing who you are? Or has 0:04:36.222 --> 0:04:37.262 it become part of the brand? 0:04:37.662 --> 0:04:41.702 Not really, No, I guess it has become part of it, 0:04:41.782 --> 0:04:44.462 but inadvertently it's kind of like an accident because it 0:04:44.542 --> 0:04:48.502 was never planned. It was never supposed to be a thing, 0:04:49.102 --> 0:04:51.142 the anonymous hosting, but it just kind of took off 0:04:51.182 --> 0:04:53.382 into a life of its own. I guess we have 0:04:53.462 --> 0:04:56.262 started branching out. I've done a few live appearances in 0:04:56.342 --> 0:05:01.382 recent times. There's no photo policy, and I still don't 0:05:02.342 --> 0:05:06.302 reveal myself as such. It's more just the case, false 0:05:06.382 --> 0:05:09.542 story and that sort of thing. I'm comfortable with that. 0:05:09.542 --> 0:05:11.702 That's been fine, But yeah, I don't think I'll ever 0:05:11.742 --> 0:05:15.582 be a personality, so to speak. 0:05:16.342 --> 0:05:20.742 Well, it's very fun trying to look at what people 0:05:20.782 --> 0:05:23.782 have kind of found out about you? Is that fun 0:05:23.822 --> 0:05:25.982 to watch people trying to work it out? 0:05:26.302 --> 0:05:27.902 I did get a little bit of a kick out 0:05:27.942 --> 0:05:30.942 of it, sort of initially. I haven't looked at it 0:05:30.982 --> 0:05:34.102 for a few years now, but there were some weird 0:05:34.142 --> 0:05:35.902 and wild theories. 0:05:35.542 --> 0:05:36.502 There are out there. 0:05:37.262 --> 0:05:39.422 Some I'm like, how do people even come up with that? 0:05:39.422 --> 0:05:41.262 That is like completely made up? 0:05:41.382 --> 0:05:41.582 Yeah? 0:05:41.622 --> 0:05:44.302 They stayed it like it's just so matter of fact. 0:05:45.182 --> 0:05:46.662 It's eye opening. 0:05:46.662 --> 0:05:50.462 Actually, well fans, is it fans that have nicknamed you Casey? 0:05:51.262 --> 0:05:52.782 Yes? That came from listeners. 0:05:53.742 --> 0:05:57.462 So just that came off the back of the anonymous 0:05:57.462 --> 0:05:59.782 host thing, people like, well, who is this person? 0:05:59.782 --> 0:06:00.382 What's going on? 0:06:00.462 --> 0:06:03.262 And I can't remember if it was a Reddit thread 0:06:03.342 --> 0:06:07.822 or a Facebook group maybe, but there's one of those, 0:06:08.342 --> 0:06:11.582 and listeners just started using case and that sort of 0:06:11.622 --> 0:06:12.022 took off. 0:06:12.182 --> 0:06:14.902 It's probably more catchy to say than anonymous host, So 0:06:14.982 --> 0:06:15.662 I can see. 0:06:15.462 --> 0:06:17.902 Why that's a bit of a mouthful. Isn't it an 0:06:17.942 --> 0:06:20.542 anonymous host? It doesn't really. 0:06:20.982 --> 0:06:23.262 But you've taken on Casey as kind of like the 0:06:23.382 --> 0:06:26.622 identity as well. You've got an Instagram handle, is that 0:06:26.742 --> 0:06:27.582 you Casey? 0:06:27.662 --> 0:06:27.862 Yeah? 0:06:27.902 --> 0:06:32.502 That's me for photography? Bad photography? Mind? 0:06:32.542 --> 0:06:34.462 You on the iPhone is a bit of a hobby 0:06:34.502 --> 0:06:37.822 of mine, particularly live music and stuff. So it's just 0:06:37.942 --> 0:06:40.822 like a just something I like to do in a downtime, 0:06:40.982 --> 0:06:42.582 play around with a few photos and stuff. 0:06:42.702 --> 0:06:46.102 I thought, oh, I'm not as well put them. 0:06:45.942 --> 0:06:48.622 Out there, I guess, and adopt the name yeah, and 0:06:48.662 --> 0:06:50.022 just lean into the name yep. 0:06:50.862 --> 0:06:51.902 Take me back to the start. 0:06:52.022 --> 0:06:56.462 How did you find yourself sitting down and starting a podcast? 0:06:56.982 --> 0:06:59.462 So it's something that I'd wanted to do for a 0:06:59.462 --> 0:07:01.222 little while, a few years. I'd say I was a 0:07:01.302 --> 0:07:03.622 pretty early adopter of podcasts. 0:07:03.822 --> 0:07:05.382 So it's twenty sixteen, right. 0:07:05.462 --> 0:07:07.822 That's when case fol started. But I've been listening to 0:07:07.902 --> 0:07:10.062 podcasts since I think it's like two thousand and eight 0:07:10.182 --> 0:07:14.542 to something like that. So my housemate at the time 0:07:14.742 --> 0:07:17.422 put me onto them. I'd never heard of them, and 0:07:17.982 --> 0:07:22.022 leaning back into that music theme, I discovered Alternative Press 0:07:22.382 --> 0:07:25.102 had a podcast and it was just long form interviews 0:07:25.142 --> 0:07:26.942 with a lot of the bands that I liked. I 0:07:26.942 --> 0:07:30.022 thought it was really cool because up until that point 0:07:30.062 --> 0:07:33.302 there'd never really been anything like that to get insight 0:07:33.622 --> 0:07:36.862 into artists. It was a snippet in a magazine or 0:07:37.542 --> 0:07:39.062 a little bit here or there, but to get this 0:07:39.142 --> 0:07:43.022 really long form conversation. I was immediately drawn in loved it, 0:07:43.582 --> 0:07:48.262 and so I'd been a fan for a few years 0:07:48.422 --> 0:07:51.342 and that sort of branched out into other podcasts after that, 0:07:51.422 --> 0:07:53.622 and it was always in my mind I thought this'd 0:07:53.662 --> 0:07:55.582 be cool to do, and I played around with a 0:07:55.582 --> 0:07:59.702 few ideas, maybe a rugby league one, maybe a music one. 0:08:00.222 --> 0:08:04.342 I started looking into music pretty heavily, but obviously a 0:08:04.462 --> 0:08:07.822 nightmare because you can't play music, podcast licensing, all that 0:08:07.822 --> 0:08:09.942 sort of stuff, So I wasn't really sure how to 0:08:10.222 --> 0:08:16.262 approach that. And I'd always been a consumer, I guess 0:08:16.342 --> 0:08:19.222 of true crime from a young age. I remember back 0:08:20.302 --> 0:08:23.542 I would have been like ten. I was babysat by 0:08:23.582 --> 0:08:26.182 my auntie a lot back then, and she had this 0:08:26.222 --> 0:08:29.142 whole shelf full of true crime magazines. I forget the 0:08:29.222 --> 0:08:30.542 name of it, you know, but it was like a 0:08:30.582 --> 0:08:35.542 weekly one available at their newsagents magazine. Yeah, so every 0:08:35.542 --> 0:08:37.142 week one a new one would come out at the 0:08:37.182 --> 0:08:39.622 magazine and it was like in long form on one case, 0:08:39.902 --> 0:08:41.582 and she had a whole shelf of them. So it 0:08:41.662 --> 0:08:44.702 was probably way too young to be reading about the 0:08:44.822 --> 0:08:49.982 Yorkshire Ripper and other such cases. But so from a 0:08:50.022 --> 0:08:54.382 young age, and I remember always having an interest in 0:08:54.622 --> 0:08:56.422 the human. 0:08:56.182 --> 0:08:58.062 Side of it, was like what causes it? How does 0:08:58.102 --> 0:09:00.022 this happen? Even from such a young age. 0:09:00.022 --> 0:09:00.182 You know. 0:09:00.462 --> 0:09:03.462 I don't think I was throwing around terms like nature, verse, 0:09:03.582 --> 0:09:06.982 nurture back then, but essentially that's what I was wondering 0:09:07.182 --> 0:09:10.702 at that time, like how does this happen? It was 0:09:10.782 --> 0:09:13.742 It wasn't like a lifelong thing, you know, I'd sort 0:09:13.742 --> 0:09:17.142 of in and out of it. A book would come along, 0:09:17.782 --> 0:09:20.902 like I think one of the first books I read 0:09:20.942 --> 0:09:23.982 was Helter Skelter at true crime books that is. 0:09:24.822 --> 0:09:26.462 And then there was. 0:09:26.502 --> 0:09:31.942 ABC had a like a tele dramatized based on true 0:09:31.942 --> 0:09:33.302 events called Blue Murder. 0:09:33.462 --> 0:09:34.182 Yeah, I remember that. 0:09:34.542 --> 0:09:38.222 Yeah, So I got right into that and tried to 0:09:38.222 --> 0:09:40.382 find every book that I could on that case and 0:09:41.462 --> 0:09:43.902 the players that were involved in that. So I've always 0:09:43.902 --> 0:09:47.462 had an interest in it. And so around this time, 0:09:49.022 --> 0:09:51.022 Cereal had been out for I think a few years 0:09:51.022 --> 0:09:53.382 by this point, but I was a late adopter to Cereal, 0:09:53.902 --> 0:09:57.142 and Making a Murderer was big at that time as well, 0:09:57.182 --> 0:10:02.062 So true crime was sort of back bubbling bubbling, and 0:10:02.862 --> 0:10:05.662 it just occurred to me just because I'd always had 0:10:05.902 --> 0:10:07.822 from a young age and interest in it. I thought, 0:10:08.102 --> 0:10:11.262 I wonder if that is some that would work on 0:10:11.262 --> 0:10:15.582 a podcast, and I started researching. So this is twenty fifteen, 0:10:16.382 --> 0:10:19.182 hard to imagine, but a very different landscape. Back then, 0:10:19.222 --> 0:10:22.742 there was hardly any true crime podcasts, very different to today. 0:10:22.542 --> 0:10:23.502 Especially in Australia. 0:10:23.542 --> 0:10:27.022 I'm guessing I don't think there were any in Australia. 0:10:27.262 --> 0:10:28.742 I could be wrong. There might have been something that 0:10:28.782 --> 0:10:30.502 I just didn't find. I'm not saying case f I 0:10:30.662 --> 0:10:34.022 was the first, but the handful that I did find 0:10:34.902 --> 0:10:39.382 were a lot more formatted around that multiple hosts, round 0:10:39.382 --> 0:10:43.582 table discussion format. There was obviously serial, the documentary style, 0:10:43.622 --> 0:10:46.222 and then there was another one or two like that 0:10:46.222 --> 0:10:48.382 that would play nine to one one calls and interview 0:10:48.382 --> 0:10:51.502 clips and things like that. Now, at that time, I 0:10:51.542 --> 0:10:54.982 was heavily influenced by a podcast called Hardcore History by 0:10:55.102 --> 0:10:59.422 Dan Carlin. What I found so fascinating about that podcast 0:10:59.702 --> 0:11:04.862 was the in depth storytelling by a single narrator. So 0:11:04.942 --> 0:11:08.182 up until that point I'd only ever heard like interview 0:11:08.222 --> 0:11:11.382 style podcasts. I thought that's what podcasts. Well, there was 0:11:11.462 --> 0:11:13.702 Serial that was more documentary style, but I'd never really 0:11:13.742 --> 0:11:16.782 heard anything like Hardcore History, which was just one voice, 0:11:16.862 --> 0:11:19.742 no clips, no nothing, just his voice for like five 0:11:19.782 --> 0:11:25.982 hours telling a story something complex, like a complex historical event, 0:11:26.942 --> 0:11:29.462 and it was so compelling. I thought that just got 0:11:29.462 --> 0:11:33.342 my mind ticking over. I was like, Oh, it showed 0:11:33.382 --> 0:11:35.942 me that was possible. And when I was trying to 0:11:35.942 --> 0:11:38.102 come up with the format and then looking what was 0:11:38.142 --> 0:11:41.102 out there with true crime, I saw I couldn't find 0:11:41.142 --> 0:11:45.822 anything out there like that, and so I just borrowed, 0:11:45.942 --> 0:11:49.342 copied inspired by whatever you want to say, Dan Carlin's 0:11:49.382 --> 0:11:52.302 hardcore History into true crime. 0:11:53.582 --> 0:11:56.142 It just goes to show that sometimes it's the simplest 0:11:56.182 --> 0:12:00.582 ideas that end up being gold because it really is 0:12:00.662 --> 0:12:03.142 just your voice for an hour, sometimes an hour and 0:12:03.182 --> 0:12:06.222 a half. There's no other audio apart from like a 0:12:06.222 --> 0:12:07.742 bit of a music bed sometimes. 0:12:08.022 --> 0:12:11.982 Yeah, so there is a music bed. Very rarely do 0:12:12.062 --> 0:12:16.062 we play like interrogation clips or things like that. We 0:12:16.502 --> 0:12:19.582 have done, but it's pretty rare that that all happened. 0:12:19.582 --> 0:12:21.102 So usually it's just my voice. 0:12:21.262 --> 0:12:27.662 Yep, you're listening to true crime conversations with me, Jemma Bath. 0:12:28.102 --> 0:12:30.782 I'm speaking with the anonymous host of case File. 0:12:31.342 --> 0:12:34.062 Up next, we go back to the start the making 0:12:34.222 --> 0:12:40.262 of the very first episode of Case File. So take 0:12:40.262 --> 0:12:43.062 me through recording that first episode. 0:12:43.182 --> 0:12:44.982 Where are you? What does it look like? Do you 0:12:44.982 --> 0:12:46.262 have a mic? Do you have a setup? 0:12:46.662 --> 0:12:48.662 It was bad, It was very bad. 0:12:48.982 --> 0:12:51.462 I had no idea what I was doing from a 0:12:51.502 --> 0:12:53.782 technical standpoint. 0:12:54.302 --> 0:12:55.422 One mention of the word. 0:12:55.262 --> 0:12:57.302 One, there is enough essentials down the spine of those 0:12:57.342 --> 0:13:00.102 who remember the case that dominated the television reports, radio 0:13:00.102 --> 0:13:03.142 air waves, and print media of the day. One of 0:13:03.182 --> 0:13:05.862 my hobbies is I played guitar bass guitar at home, 0:13:05.942 --> 0:13:09.062 and I had a little interface that I could record 0:13:09.142 --> 0:13:13.382 myself on garage on my Mac and so on. That interface, 0:13:13.422 --> 0:13:16.382 which was designed to plug a guitar in it also 0:13:16.422 --> 0:13:19.582 had like this little mic smaller than the size of 0:13:19.622 --> 0:13:22.942 a five cent piece on it. I thought, oh, yeah, 0:13:23.262 --> 0:13:26.502 that'll do. So I just plugged that in to the laptop. 0:13:26.542 --> 0:13:29.142 It was sitting on my desk nowhere in my mouth 0:13:29.222 --> 0:13:34.462 over there somewhere, and I just started talking, did what 0:13:34.542 --> 0:13:37.622 I could on garage band with my limited knowledge, and 0:13:37.662 --> 0:13:44.262 then released it. It sounds awful, but so what I'm 0:13:44.342 --> 0:13:47.662 very thankful for in those early days we got some 0:13:47.742 --> 0:13:52.382 good constructive feedback in that. Look, this content is pretty good, 0:13:52.422 --> 0:13:55.382 but this sounds awful. Can you get someone to do 0:13:55.462 --> 0:13:59.022 something with your audio? I thought that's probably fair enough, 0:13:59.062 --> 0:14:04.182 so I advertised for an audio producer on a freelance website. 0:14:04.302 --> 0:14:06.062 Yeah, things up work, I think it was. 0:14:06.542 --> 0:14:10.262 And it was hard to write that job the scriptum 0:14:10.742 --> 0:14:12.822 because I didn't know what I was asking for, because 0:14:12.822 --> 0:14:14.702 I had no knowledge of what I was doing. So 0:14:15.822 --> 0:14:20.102 I put together something and probably twenty to thirty people applied, 0:14:20.302 --> 0:14:22.062 and so I thought the best way to work this 0:14:22.182 --> 0:14:24.462 out was I just had a one minute snippet from 0:14:24.502 --> 0:14:29.542 an episode and the job description was fixed. This just 0:14:29.662 --> 0:14:31.302 show me what you can do, basically. And then I 0:14:31.422 --> 0:14:35.102 listened to it and there was one standout, which was 0:14:35.142 --> 0:14:37.782 Mike Megus, who is still the current case for a 0:14:37.862 --> 0:14:40.982 producer to Next Day. Yeah, nine years on, so he 0:14:41.742 --> 0:14:43.822 was one of the applicants. I listened to his snippet 0:14:44.062 --> 0:14:47.102 head and shoulders above anyone else. Then I looked at 0:14:47.142 --> 0:14:51.302 his resume. Worked at Pinewood Studios in the UK, worked 0:14:51.302 --> 0:14:53.542 on this Star Wars movie, worked on this Disney movie. 0:14:53.582 --> 0:14:57.622 I'm like, oh, dear, no, no wonder, it sounds so good, 0:14:57.622 --> 0:15:01.782 but I can't afford this. But I messaged him and 0:15:01.822 --> 0:15:05.262 we got chatting, and he had actually just left Pinewood 0:15:05.262 --> 0:15:08.262 Studios and was coming out as a freelancer. He hadn't 0:15:08.262 --> 0:15:11.782 worked with podcasts before, so he was keen to just 0:15:13.502 --> 0:15:15.662 try it and dip his toes into it, get experience 0:15:15.702 --> 0:15:19.622 with podcasts, and he gave me a very favorable rate. 0:15:19.822 --> 0:15:20.702 So thank you, Mike. 0:15:20.822 --> 0:15:23.422 So you found him at a good time, a good time. 0:15:23.622 --> 0:15:26.062 How many podcasts in were you hiring Mike? 0:15:27.142 --> 0:15:29.542 Was? Episode seven was the first one he worked on. 0:15:30.342 --> 0:15:33.462 And by that point, did you have an audience? What 0:15:33.502 --> 0:15:35.462 did your audience look like in those early episodes. 0:15:37.222 --> 0:15:39.982 I remember my goal when I released the first episode 0:15:40.062 --> 0:15:42.262 was to get to one hundred, one hundred downloads, one 0:15:42.302 --> 0:15:46.062 hundred downloads, and that happened in twenty four hours, and 0:15:46.262 --> 0:15:48.062 so by the end of the first week it was 0:15:48.342 --> 0:15:54.462 about one thousand, and it sort of slowly, just it 0:15:54.622 --> 0:15:57.982 sort of came in blocks. So by six months we 0:15:57.982 --> 0:16:02.662 were averaging fifty thousand plus an episode. Then by the 0:16:02.742 --> 0:16:04.262 end of the first year it was two hundred and 0:16:04.302 --> 0:16:07.622 fifty thousand an episode, and then before I knew it 0:16:07.662 --> 0:16:11.302 into the second year was a million plus. Just was 0:16:11.342 --> 0:16:16.222 like stages, It was very it almost didn't seem real 0:16:16.262 --> 0:16:17.382 because there was no promotion. 0:16:17.542 --> 0:16:19.502 There was nothing say how did. 0:16:19.382 --> 0:16:22.342 You like, did you just go on to one of 0:16:22.382 --> 0:16:25.542 the platforms and release it? Did you advertise it on 0:16:25.622 --> 0:16:26.302 social media? 0:16:26.342 --> 0:16:26.422 Like? 0:16:26.462 --> 0:16:27.342 How did you get it out there? 0:16:27.382 --> 0:16:31.382 It was I believe the first hosting platform was SoundCloud actually, 0:16:31.382 --> 0:16:34.302 so I put it on SoundCloud and through there they 0:16:34.302 --> 0:16:36.702 had an RSS capability, So it went out to Apple 0:16:36.742 --> 0:16:40.462 and all the everywhere that you can get podcasts, set 0:16:40.542 --> 0:16:42.022 up a Facebook. 0:16:41.542 --> 0:16:47.222 Page and it just grew, it just grew. It was 0:16:47.262 --> 0:16:48.062 just word of mouth. 0:16:48.622 --> 0:16:50.822 What was the first episode on do you remember? 0:16:51.062 --> 0:16:51.262 Yeah? 0:16:51.262 --> 0:16:53.822 The first episode was the Wonder Beach Murders. 0:16:53.742 --> 0:16:56.022 So a really infamous one. 0:16:56.342 --> 0:17:00.702 Yeah, infamous Australian one. And I guess I covered that 0:17:00.782 --> 0:17:03.662 one because it was a case that I'd heard a 0:17:03.662 --> 0:17:09.262 lot about growing up. It was sort of almost mythical 0:17:09.342 --> 0:17:11.422 in a way, the way it was about an urban 0:17:11.542 --> 0:17:14.062 legend of not an urban legend, obviously it's real case, 0:17:14.102 --> 0:17:16.142 but the way it was spoken about growing up, it 0:17:16.182 --> 0:17:20.142 was almost like that. And I realized I knew nothing 0:17:20.142 --> 0:17:22.582 about it, so I thought that was a good place 0:17:22.622 --> 0:17:26.902 to start. Just as this wasn't planned, This wasn't supposed 0:17:26.902 --> 0:17:30.502 to go to an audience This was a project that 0:17:30.742 --> 0:17:34.662 I was doing while I was off work injured, so 0:17:34.782 --> 0:17:36.622 it was literally just to fill in the time until 0:17:36.622 --> 0:17:38.302 I went back to work. So I didn't get crazy 0:17:38.342 --> 0:17:41.422 because this was my third serious rehab from an injury 0:17:41.422 --> 0:17:45.262 in quick succession, and that can be a pretty dark 0:17:45.302 --> 0:17:47.782 and lonely time, especially for someone who likes to play sport, 0:17:47.902 --> 0:17:51.382 keep fit active. It's almost sort of part of my identity. 0:17:51.502 --> 0:17:56.102 So being stuck through the rehab process it was pretty tough. 0:17:56.182 --> 0:17:58.182 That third one was a pretty serious injury too. So 0:17:59.982 --> 0:18:02.222 I'd been wanting to start a podcast for a few years. 0:18:02.222 --> 0:18:07.062 I thought, well, this is my chance, and yeah, I 0:18:07.782 --> 0:18:09.862 none of this was planned. 0:18:10.702 --> 0:18:11.382 Maybe do three. 0:18:11.262 --> 0:18:15.302 Episodes as your podcast started to grow. I know you're 0:18:15.342 --> 0:18:17.982 anonymous to the world, but your loved ones they would 0:18:17.982 --> 0:18:19.782 have known that you were starting a podcast. What did 0:18:19.782 --> 0:18:20.382 they think about it? 0:18:20.382 --> 0:18:20.542 All? 0:18:20.782 --> 0:18:21.222 Not many. 0:18:21.942 --> 0:18:24.102 I kept it pretty much well on the down low. 0:18:25.262 --> 0:18:27.462 I told a few friends and they kind of just 0:18:27.542 --> 0:18:32.302 laughed at it, said, though, that's stupid, what are you doing. 0:18:32.382 --> 0:18:35.222 What are you doing that for? Basically, you know, in 0:18:35.222 --> 0:18:39.422 a friendly banter tight way, I guess, But yeah, I 0:18:39.502 --> 0:18:42.222 kept it pretty well on the down low, just something 0:18:42.222 --> 0:18:46.102 that I just did put my head down and just 0:18:46.222 --> 0:18:48.182 kept putting it out there. No one I worked with 0:18:48.302 --> 0:18:49.182 knew about it. 0:18:49.902 --> 0:18:51.502 So you ended up going back to work and you 0:18:51.502 --> 0:18:53.422 were doing this on the side, yep. 0:18:53.902 --> 0:18:56.382 Yep, So I went back to eventually got back to work, 0:18:57.622 --> 0:19:01.022 and yeah, just on the days off and you or 0:19:01.062 --> 0:19:04.582 after work even Yeah, kept working on case file and 0:19:04.622 --> 0:19:08.142 it kept growing and growing and growing. Eventually I realized 0:19:08.142 --> 0:19:12.822 that I needed help yep. So we got our first 0:19:13.462 --> 0:19:18.582 researcher and writer to assist, and yeah, from there, the 0:19:18.622 --> 0:19:21.942 team has just gradually grown and yeah, now we have 0:19:23.102 --> 0:19:27.822 two full time audio producers, three full time researchers, writers, 0:19:27.862 --> 0:19:29.662 and additional freelancers as well. 0:19:29.822 --> 0:19:35.342 Wow, prior to hiring a researcher to obviously help you 0:19:35.382 --> 0:19:39.422 write those scripts because they're long, they're detailed, how much 0:19:40.022 --> 0:19:42.782 work were you putting into that script? 0:19:43.022 --> 0:19:43.902 Because it's. 0:19:45.302 --> 0:19:48.502 It's hard to get that amount of detail, and like, 0:19:48.542 --> 0:19:51.222 if you get anything wrong, people are going to pick 0:19:51.302 --> 0:19:52.902 up on it. 0:19:52.942 --> 0:19:53.582 Is it ours? 0:19:53.862 --> 0:19:53.982 Oh? 0:19:54.502 --> 0:19:58.622 Yeah, it was a non stop It was literally I 0:19:58.622 --> 0:20:00.782 didn't have anything else in life. I go to work 0:20:00.822 --> 0:20:03.942 and I come home and like I'd work shift work, 0:20:03.982 --> 0:20:07.342 So sometimes after a night shift, I'd literally just not sleep. 0:20:08.702 --> 0:20:13.062 Because it was that full on. So, yeah, it was a. 0:20:14.862 --> 0:20:16.742 Lot, a lot of there's still a lot of work now, 0:20:16.742 --> 0:20:20.702 but obviously it's much smoother in operation with having such 0:20:20.702 --> 0:20:22.662 a talented team working on it now. 0:20:22.702 --> 0:20:24.462 But yeah, back then it was pretty full long. 0:20:24.702 --> 0:20:29.142 Given it's your baby, though, it's your case file is 0:20:29.182 --> 0:20:34.822 your child? Do you struggle to give it to other people? 0:20:34.902 --> 0:20:36.662 Are you very close to it still in terms of 0:20:36.702 --> 0:20:38.582 the writing of those scripts and the research and how 0:20:38.582 --> 0:20:39.422 the process goes. 0:20:39.862 --> 0:20:41.742 No, I've got a lot of faith in the team, 0:20:41.982 --> 0:20:45.382 So it's once it's been very fortunate just to find 0:20:45.422 --> 0:20:48.902 such talented and hard working people who I trust. So 0:20:49.662 --> 0:20:51.942 once these people have my trust, it's I'm happy to 0:20:51.982 --> 0:20:56.102 step away. And so the writing and research team now 0:20:56.262 --> 0:20:59.982 is fully led by women. All the rids of researchers 0:20:59.982 --> 0:21:03.782 are women. The head writer, Millie is in charge of 0:21:03.862 --> 0:21:07.862 all the cases, what we're covering, what's the release schedule, 0:21:07.982 --> 0:21:12.142 all of that. Mike's in charge of the production side 0:21:12.142 --> 0:21:15.502 of it, the audio production, what music goes on, and 0:21:15.662 --> 0:21:19.662 sort of the audio production elements. So yeah, and I 0:21:19.742 --> 0:21:23.182 have full trust in the whole team to do that 0:21:23.422 --> 0:21:23.902 because this. 0:21:23.942 --> 0:21:26.862 Is no longer well and truly no longer your side hustle, 0:21:26.902 --> 0:21:30.902 this is your job, right When were you able to 0:21:30.942 --> 0:21:34.742