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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waders. This podcast was

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Speaker 1: recorded on to some he's known as the anonymous host.

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Speaker 1: Others have nicknamed him Casey. If you're listening to this podcast.

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Speaker 2: And you're a fan of true crime, you'll probably recognize

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Speaker 2: this voice.

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Speaker 3: Asking's indicating they'd applied the patches in the lead up

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Speaker 3: to their deaths Stranger Still, the evidence suggests that the

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Speaker 3: couple had ingested, but.

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Speaker 2: The host of Australian true crime podcast case File has

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Speaker 2: kept his identity secret for nine years and so far that's.

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Speaker 4: Been working pretty well for him.

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Speaker 2: Casey might not let us tell you his real name,

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Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean we can't tell you his story.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jemma Bass and this is True Crime Conversations amom

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Speaker 2: of Me, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes

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Speaker 2: by speaking to the people who know the most about them.

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Speaker 2: We've got a bit of a different episode for you today.

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Speaker 2: Case File is what you would call one of our

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Speaker 2: direct competitors. We both work in the Australian true crime

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Speaker 2: podcasting space and we're regularly up against them in the

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Speaker 2: various podcasting charts. They're wildly popular, often number one, with

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Speaker 2: people all over the world attracted to the podcast's distinct,

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Speaker 2: no frills approach to storytelling. It all started with one

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Speaker 2: typical Aussie bloke as he calls himself in his spare room,

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Speaker 2: deciding to give podcasting a go while recovering from a

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Speaker 2: sporting injury. Now the anonymous host and his team are

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Speaker 2: in the years of more than eight hundred thousand people

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Speaker 2: every month. He doesn't really do interviews, you'll only find

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Speaker 2: one or two on the internet, but we managed to

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Speaker 2: convinced him to come into Momma mea HQ for an

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Speaker 2: exclusive sit down chat. I don't know what I was

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Speaker 2: meeting him in real life. He wasn't not what I

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Speaker 2: was expecting. Probably more clean cut than the descriptor he

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Speaker 2: gives of being a typical Aussie bloke, but maybe that's

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Speaker 2: just me being too stereotypical. The feedback from my colleagues

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Speaker 2: who sneak to peak is that he's younger than they imagined.

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Speaker 4: Make of that what you will.

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Speaker 2: And when I say sneak to peak, several of my

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Speaker 2: colleagues not only hobbed, but chased this man down the

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Speaker 2: halls of our office. Honestly, there was more excitement in

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Speaker 2: here than when we have some Hollywood celebs grace our halls.

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Speaker 2: Please enjoy my chat with the anonymous host of case File.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to start with some quick fire questions, getting

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Speaker 2: to know you questions.

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Speaker 4: I will accept no comment if I have to.

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Speaker 3: Okay, sounds good, favorite sport, Rugby league, favorite food.

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Speaker 5: Toy.

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Speaker 4: That was a toughie. You had to think about that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was Indian maybe.

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Speaker 4: Favorite song and or artists.

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Speaker 3: Favorite song Flowers and You by touche A Moore, very specific.

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Speaker 3: It's getting quite the play at the moment. It's not new,

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Speaker 3: it's actually probably ten years old now. But good song.

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Speaker 2: Favorite thing to do on the weekend, golf, favorite place

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Speaker 2: in Australia, Blue Mountains, m TV.

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Speaker 3: Show cobra Qui what Yeah, just because it's so tacky

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Speaker 3: and cheesy, but they really lean into it. And I

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Speaker 3: was a fan of the Karate Kid movies when I

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Speaker 3: was young, so it's a bit of a nostalgia thing.

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Speaker 5: It's like it's bad, but it's good bad.

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Speaker 4: If you could have dinner with anyone alive or dead,

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Speaker 4: who would it be?

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Speaker 6: Kirk Cabaine Ooh, I'm hearing a music yeah, big music fan. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 6: or actually Kirk Cobaine or Cliff Burton original Metallica basis.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Well, there we go.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I've learned more about you in the

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Speaker 2: last few minutes than I can find on the entire Internet.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not actually allowed to tell listeners your name.

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Speaker 2: It's been nine years of you making case file. Have

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Speaker 2: you ever considered just revealing who you are? Or has

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Speaker 2: it become part of the brand?

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Speaker 3: Not really, No, I guess it has become part of it,

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Speaker 3: but inadvertently it's kind of like an accident because it

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Speaker 3: was never planned. It was never supposed to be a thing,

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Speaker 3: the anonymous hosting, but it just kind of took off

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Speaker 3: into a life of its own. I guess we have

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Speaker 3: started branching out. I've done a few live appearances in

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Speaker 3: recent times. There's no photo policy, and I still don't

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Speaker 3: reveal myself as such. It's more just the case, false

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Speaker 3: story and that sort of thing. I'm comfortable with that.

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Speaker 3: That's been fine, But yeah, I don't think I'll ever

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Speaker 3: be a personality, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's very fun trying to look at what people

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Speaker 2: have kind of found out about you? Is that fun

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Speaker 2: to watch people trying to work it out?

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Speaker 3: I did get a little bit of a kick out

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Speaker 3: of it, sort of initially. I haven't looked at it

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Speaker 3: for a few years now, but there were some weird

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Speaker 3: and wild theories.

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Speaker 5: There are out there.

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Speaker 3: Some I'm like, how do people even come up with that?

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Speaker 3: That is like completely made up?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: They stayed it like it's just so matter of fact.

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Speaker 3: It's eye opening.

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Speaker 4: Actually, well fans, is it fans that have nicknamed you Casey?

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Speaker 5: Yes? That came from listeners.

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Speaker 3: So just that came off the back of the anonymous

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Speaker 3: host thing, people like, well, who is this person?

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Speaker 5: What's going on?

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Speaker 3: And I can't remember if it was a Reddit thread

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Speaker 3: or a Facebook group maybe, but there's one of those,

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Speaker 3: and listeners just started using case and that sort of

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Speaker 3: took off.

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Speaker 2: It's probably more catchy to say than anonymous host, So

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Speaker 2: I can see.

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Speaker 3: Why that's a bit of a mouthful. Isn't it an

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Speaker 3: anonymous host? It doesn't really.

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Speaker 2: But you've taken on Casey as kind of like the

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Speaker 2: identity as well. You've got an Instagram handle, is that

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Speaker 2: you Casey?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: That's me for photography? Bad photography? Mind?

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Speaker 3: You on the iPhone is a bit of a hobby

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Speaker 3: of mine, particularly live music and stuff. So it's just

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Speaker 3: like a just something I like to do in a downtime,

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Speaker 3: play around with a few photos and stuff.

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Speaker 5: I thought, oh, I'm not as well put them.

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Speaker 3: Out there, I guess, and adopt the name yeah, and

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Speaker 3: just lean into the name yep.

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Speaker 4: Take me back to the start.

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Speaker 2: How did you find yourself sitting down and starting a podcast?

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Speaker 3: So it's something that I'd wanted to do for a

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Speaker 3: little while, a few years. I'd say I was a

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Speaker 3: pretty early adopter of podcasts.

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Speaker 4: So it's twenty sixteen, right.

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Speaker 3: That's when case fol started. But I've been listening to

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Speaker 3: podcasts since I think it's like two thousand and eight

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Speaker 3: to something like that. So my housemate at the time

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Speaker 3: put me onto them. I'd never heard of them, and

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Speaker 3: leaning back into that music theme, I discovered Alternative Press

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Speaker 3: had a podcast and it was just long form interviews

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Speaker 3: with a lot of the bands that I liked. I

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Speaker 3: thought it was really cool because up until that point

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Speaker 3: there'd never really been anything like that to get insight

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Speaker 3: into artists. It was a snippet in a magazine or

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Speaker 3: a little bit here or there, but to get this

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Speaker 3: really long form conversation. I was immediately drawn in loved it,

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Speaker 3: and so I'd been a fan for a few years

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Speaker 3: and that sort of branched out into other podcasts after that,

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Speaker 3: and it was always in my mind I thought this'd

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Speaker 3: be cool to do, and I played around with a

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Speaker 3: few ideas, maybe a rugby league one, maybe a music one.

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Speaker 3: I started looking into music pretty heavily, but obviously a

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Speaker 3: nightmare because you can't play music, podcast licensing, all that

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Speaker 3: sort of stuff, So I wasn't really sure how to

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Speaker 3: approach that. And I'd always been a consumer, I guess

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Speaker 3: of true crime from a young age. I remember back

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Speaker 3: I would have been like ten. I was babysat by

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Speaker 3: my auntie a lot back then, and she had this

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Speaker 3: whole shelf full of true crime magazines. I forget the

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Speaker 3: name of it, you know, but it was like a

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Speaker 3: weekly one available at their newsagents magazine. Yeah, so every

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Speaker 3: week one a new one would come out at the

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Speaker 3: magazine and it was like in long form on one case,

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Speaker 3: and she had a whole shelf of them. So it

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Speaker 3: was probably way too young to be reading about the

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Speaker 3: Yorkshire Ripper and other such cases. But so from a

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Speaker 3: young age, and I remember always having an interest in

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Speaker 3: the human.

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Speaker 5: Side of it, was like what causes it? How does

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Speaker 5: this happen? Even from such a young age.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I was throwing around terms like nature, verse,

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Speaker 3: nurture back then, but essentially that's what I was wondering

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Speaker 3: at that time, like how does this happen? It was

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Speaker 3: It wasn't like a lifelong thing, you know, I'd sort

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Speaker 3: of in and out of it. A book would come along,

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Speaker 3: like I think one of the first books I read

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Speaker 3: was Helter Skelter at true crime books that is.

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Speaker 5: And then there was.

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Speaker 3: ABC had a like a tele dramatized based on true

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Speaker 3: events called Blue Murder.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I got right into that and tried to

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Speaker 3: find every book that I could on that case and

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Speaker 3: the players that were involved in that. So I've always

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Speaker 3: had an interest in it. And so around this time,

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Speaker 3: Cereal had been out for I think a few years

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Speaker 3: by this point, but I was a late adopter to Cereal,

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Speaker 3: and Making a Murderer was big at that time as well,

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Speaker 3: So true crime was sort of back bubbling bubbling, and

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Speaker 3: it just occurred to me just because I'd always had

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Speaker 3: from a young age and interest in it. I thought,

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Speaker 3: I wonder if that is some that would work on

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Speaker 3: a podcast, and I started researching. So this is twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 3: hard to imagine, but a very different landscape. Back then,

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Speaker 3: there was hardly any true crime podcasts, very different to today.

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Speaker 4: Especially in Australia.

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Speaker 5: I'm guessing I don't think there were any in Australia.

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Speaker 3: I could be wrong. There might have been something that

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Speaker 3: I just didn't find. I'm not saying case f I

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Speaker 3: was the first, but the handful that I did find

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Speaker 3: were a lot more formatted around that multiple hosts, round

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Speaker 3: table discussion format. There was obviously serial, the documentary style,

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Speaker 3: and then there was another one or two like that

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Speaker 3: that would play nine to one one calls and interview

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Speaker 3: clips and things like that. Now, at that time, I

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Speaker 3: was heavily influenced by a podcast called Hardcore History by

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Speaker 3: Dan Carlin. What I found so fascinating about that podcast

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Speaker 3: was the in depth storytelling by a single narrator. So

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Speaker 3: up until that point I'd only ever heard like interview

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Speaker 3: style podcasts. I thought that's what podcasts. Well, there was

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Speaker 3: Serial that was more documentary style, but I'd never really

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Speaker 3: heard anything like Hardcore History, which was just one voice,

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Speaker 3: no clips, no nothing, just his voice for like five

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Speaker 3: hours telling a story something complex, like a complex historical event,

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Speaker 3: and it was so compelling. I thought that just got

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Speaker 3: my mind ticking over. I was like, Oh, it showed

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Speaker 3: me that was possible. And when I was trying to

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Speaker 3: come up with the format and then looking what was

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Speaker 3: out there with true crime, I saw I couldn't find

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Speaker 3: anything out there like that, and so I just borrowed,

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Speaker 3: copied inspired by whatever you want to say, Dan Carlin's

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Speaker 3: hardcore History into true crime.

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Speaker 2: It just goes to show that sometimes it's the simplest

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Speaker 2: ideas that end up being gold because it really is

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Speaker 2: just your voice for an hour, sometimes an hour and

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Speaker 2: a half. There's no other audio apart from like a

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Speaker 2: bit of a music bed sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there is a music bed. Very rarely do

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Speaker 3: we play like interrogation clips or things like that. We

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Speaker 3: have done, but it's pretty rare that that all happened.

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Speaker 3: So usually it's just my voice.

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Speaker 2: Yep, you're listening to true crime conversations with me, Jemma Bath.

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Speaker 4: I'm speaking with the anonymous host of case File.

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Speaker 2: Up next, we go back to the start the making

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Speaker 2: of the very first episode of Case File. So take

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Speaker 2: me through recording that first episode.

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Speaker 4: Where are you? What does it look like? Do you

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Speaker 4: have a mic? Do you have a setup?

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Speaker 5: It was bad, It was very bad.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea what I was doing from a

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Speaker 3: technical standpoint.

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Speaker 5: One mention of the word.

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Speaker 3: One, there is enough essentials down the spine of those

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Speaker 3: who remember the case that dominated the television reports, radio

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Speaker 3: air waves, and print media of the day. One of

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Speaker 3: my hobbies is I played guitar bass guitar at home,

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Speaker 3: and I had a little interface that I could record

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Speaker 3: myself on garage on my Mac and so on. That interface,

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Speaker 3: which was designed to plug a guitar in it also

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Speaker 3: had like this little mic smaller than the size of

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Speaker 3: a five cent piece on it. I thought, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that'll do. So I just plugged that in to the laptop.

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Speaker 3: It was sitting on my desk nowhere in my mouth

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Speaker 3: over there somewhere, and I just started talking, did what

249
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Speaker 3: I could on garage band with my limited knowledge, and

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Speaker 3: then released it. It sounds awful, but so what I'm

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Speaker 3: very thankful for in those early days we got some

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Speaker 3: good constructive feedback in that. Look, this content is pretty good,

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Speaker 3: but this sounds awful. Can you get someone to do

254
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Speaker 3: something with your audio? I thought that's probably fair enough,

255
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Speaker 3: so I advertised for an audio producer on a freelance website.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, things up work, I think it was.

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Speaker 3: And it was hard to write that job the scriptum

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00:14:10,742 --> 00:14:12,822
Speaker 3: because I didn't know what I was asking for, because

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00:14:12,822 --> 00:14:14,702
Speaker 3: I had no knowledge of what I was doing. So

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Speaker 3: I put together something and probably twenty to thirty people applied,

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Speaker 3: and so I thought the best way to work this

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Speaker 3: out was I just had a one minute snippet from

263
00:14:24,502 --> 00:14:29,542
Speaker 3: an episode and the job description was fixed. This just

264
00:14:29,662 --> 00:14:31,302
Speaker 3: show me what you can do, basically. And then I

265
00:14:31,422 --> 00:14:35,102
Speaker 3: listened to it and there was one standout, which was

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Speaker 3: Mike Megus, who is still the current case for a

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00:14:37,862 --> 00:14:40,982
Speaker 3: producer to Next Day. Yeah, nine years on, so he

268
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Speaker 3: was one of the applicants. I listened to his snippet

269
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Speaker 3: head and shoulders above anyone else. Then I looked at

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Speaker 3: his resume. Worked at Pinewood Studios in the UK, worked

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Speaker 3: on this Star Wars movie, worked on this Disney movie.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, dear, no, no wonder, it sounds so good,

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Speaker 3: but I can't afford this. But I messaged him and

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Speaker 3: we got chatting, and he had actually just left Pinewood

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Speaker 3: Studios and was coming out as a freelancer. He hadn't

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Speaker 3: worked with podcasts before, so he was keen to just

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Speaker 3: try it and dip his toes into it, get experience

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Speaker 3: with podcasts, and he gave me a very favorable rate.

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Speaker 5: So thank you, Mike.

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Speaker 2: So you found him at a good time, a good time.

281
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Speaker 2: How many podcasts in were you hiring Mike?

282
00:15:27,142 --> 00:15:29,542
Speaker 5: Was? Episode seven was the first one he worked on.

283
00:15:30,342 --> 00:15:33,462
Speaker 2: And by that point, did you have an audience? What

284
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Speaker 2: did your audience look like in those early episodes.

285
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Speaker 3: I remember my goal when I released the first episode

286
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Speaker 3: was to get to one hundred, one hundred downloads, one

287
00:15:42,302 --> 00:15:46,062
Speaker 3: hundred downloads, and that happened in twenty four hours, and

288
00:15:46,262 --> 00:15:48,062
Speaker 3: so by the end of the first week it was

289
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Speaker 3: about one thousand, and it sort of slowly, just it

290
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Speaker 3: sort of came in blocks. So by six months we

291
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Speaker 3: were averaging fifty thousand plus an episode. Then by the

292
00:16:02,742 --> 00:16:04,262
Speaker 3: end of the first year it was two hundred and

293
00:16:04,302 --> 00:16:07,622
Speaker 3: fifty thousand an episode, and then before I knew it

294
00:16:07,662 --> 00:16:11,302
Speaker 3: into the second year was a million plus. Just was

295
00:16:11,342 --> 00:16:16,222
Speaker 3: like stages, It was very it almost didn't seem real

296
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Speaker 3: because there was no promotion.

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Speaker 5: There was nothing say how did.

298
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Speaker 2: You like, did you just go on to one of

299
00:16:22,382 --> 00:16:25,542
Speaker 2: the platforms and release it? Did you advertise it on

300
00:16:25,622 --> 00:16:26,302
Speaker 2: social media?

301
00:16:26,342 --> 00:16:26,422
Speaker 3: Like?

302
00:16:26,462 --> 00:16:27,342
Speaker 4: How did you get it out there?

303
00:16:27,382 --> 00:16:31,382
Speaker 3: It was I believe the first hosting platform was SoundCloud actually,

304
00:16:31,382 --> 00:16:34,302
Speaker 3: so I put it on SoundCloud and through there they

305
00:16:34,302 --> 00:16:36,702
Speaker 3: had an RSS capability, So it went out to Apple

306
00:16:36,742 --> 00:16:40,462
Speaker 3: and all the everywhere that you can get podcasts, set

307
00:16:40,542 --> 00:16:42,022
Speaker 3: up a Facebook.

308
00:16:41,542 --> 00:16:47,222
Speaker 5: Page and it just grew, it just grew. It was

309
00:16:47,262 --> 00:16:48,062
Speaker 5: just word of mouth.

310
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Speaker 4: What was the first episode on do you remember?

311
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Speaker 6: Yeah?

312
00:16:51,262 --> 00:16:53,822
Speaker 5: The first episode was the Wonder Beach Murders.

313
00:16:53,742 --> 00:16:56,022
Speaker 4: So a really infamous one.

314
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Speaker 3: Yeah, infamous Australian one. And I guess I covered that

315
00:17:00,782 --> 00:17:03,662
Speaker 3: one because it was a case that I'd heard a

316
00:17:03,662 --> 00:17:09,262
Speaker 3: lot about growing up. It was sort of almost mythical

317
00:17:09,342 --> 00:17:11,422
Speaker 3: in a way, the way it was about an urban

318
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Speaker 3: legend of not an urban legend, obviously it's real case,

319
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Speaker 3: but the way it was spoken about growing up, it

320
00:17:16,182 --> 00:17:20,142
Speaker 3: was almost like that. And I realized I knew nothing

321
00:17:20,142 --> 00:17:22,582
Speaker 3: about it, so I thought that was a good place

322
00:17:22,622 --> 00:17:26,902
Speaker 3: to start. Just as this wasn't planned, This wasn't supposed

323
00:17:26,902 --> 00:17:30,502
Speaker 3: to go to an audience This was a project that

324
00:17:30,742 --> 00:17:34,662
Speaker 3: I was doing while I was off work injured, so

325
00:17:34,782 --> 00:17:36,622
Speaker 3: it was literally just to fill in the time until

326
00:17:36,622 --> 00:17:38,302
Speaker 3: I went back to work. So I didn't get crazy

327
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Speaker 3: because this was my third serious rehab from an injury

328
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Speaker 3: in quick succession, and that can be a pretty dark

329
00:17:45,302 --> 00:17:47,782
Speaker 3: and lonely time, especially for someone who likes to play sport,

330
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Speaker 3: keep fit active. It's almost sort of part of my identity.

331
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Speaker 3: So being stuck through the rehab process it was pretty tough.

332
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Speaker 3: That third one was a pretty serious injury too. So

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00:17:59,982 --> 00:18:02,222
Speaker 3: I'd been wanting to start a podcast for a few years.

334
00:18:02,222 --> 00:18:07,062
Speaker 3: I thought, well, this is my chance, and yeah, I

335
00:18:07,782 --> 00:18:09,862
Speaker 3: none of this was planned.

336
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Speaker 5: Maybe do three.

337
00:18:11,262 --> 00:18:15,302
Speaker 2: Episodes as your podcast started to grow. I know you're

338
00:18:15,342 --> 00:18:17,982
Speaker 2: anonymous to the world, but your loved ones they would

339
00:18:17,982 --> 00:18:19,782
Speaker 2: have known that you were starting a podcast. What did

340
00:18:19,782 --> 00:18:20,382
Speaker 2: they think about it?

341
00:18:20,382 --> 00:18:20,542
Speaker 4: All?

342
00:18:20,782 --> 00:18:21,222
Speaker 5: Not many.

343
00:18:21,942 --> 00:18:24,102
Speaker 3: I kept it pretty much well on the down low.

344
00:18:25,262 --> 00:18:27,462
Speaker 3: I told a few friends and they kind of just

345
00:18:27,542 --> 00:18:32,302
Speaker 3: laughed at it, said, though, that's stupid, what are you doing.

346
00:18:32,382 --> 00:18:35,222
Speaker 3: What are you doing that for? Basically, you know, in

347
00:18:35,222 --> 00:18:39,422
Speaker 3: a friendly banter tight way, I guess, But yeah, I

348
00:18:39,502 --> 00:18:42,222
Speaker 3: kept it pretty well on the down low, just something

349
00:18:42,222 --> 00:18:46,102
Speaker 3: that I just did put my head down and just

350
00:18:46,222 --> 00:18:48,182
Speaker 3: kept putting it out there. No one I worked with

351
00:18:48,302 --> 00:18:49,182
Speaker 3: knew about it.

352
00:18:49,902 --> 00:18:51,502
Speaker 4: So you ended up going back to work and you

353
00:18:51,502 --> 00:18:53,422
Speaker 4: were doing this on the side, yep.

354
00:18:53,902 --> 00:18:56,382
Speaker 3: Yep, So I went back to eventually got back to work,

355
00:18:57,622 --> 00:19:01,022
Speaker 3: and yeah, just on the days off and you or

356
00:19:01,062 --> 00:19:04,582
Speaker 3: after work even Yeah, kept working on case file and

357
00:19:04,622 --> 00:19:08,142
Speaker 3: it kept growing and growing and growing. Eventually I realized

358
00:19:08,142 --> 00:19:12,822
Speaker 3: that I needed help yep. So we got our first

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00:19:13,462 --> 00:19:18,582
Speaker 3: researcher and writer to assist, and yeah, from there, the

360
00:19:18,622 --> 00:19:21,942
Speaker 3: team has just gradually grown and yeah, now we have

361
00:19:23,102 --> 00:19:27,822
Speaker 3: two full time audio producers, three full time researchers, writers,

362
00:19:27,862 --> 00:19:29,662
Speaker 3: and additional freelancers as well.

363
00:19:29,822 --> 00:19:35,342
Speaker 2: Wow, prior to hiring a researcher to obviously help you

364
00:19:35,382 --> 00:19:39,422
Speaker 2: write those scripts because they're long, they're detailed, how much

365
00:19:40,022 --> 00:19:42,782
Speaker 2: work were you putting into that script?

366
00:19:43,022 --> 00:19:43,902
Speaker 4: Because it's.

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00:19:45,302 --> 00:19:48,502
Speaker 2: It's hard to get that amount of detail, and like,

368
00:19:48,542 --> 00:19:51,222
Speaker 2: if you get anything wrong, people are going to pick

369
00:19:51,302 --> 00:19:52,902
Speaker 2: up on it.

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00:19:52,942 --> 00:19:53,582
Speaker 4: Is it ours?

371
00:19:53,862 --> 00:19:53,982
Speaker 6: Oh?

372
00:19:54,502 --> 00:19:58,622
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a non stop It was literally I

373
00:19:58,622 --> 00:20:00,782
Speaker 3: didn't have anything else in life. I go to work

374
00:20:00,822 --> 00:20:03,942
Speaker 3: and I come home and like I'd work shift work,

375
00:20:03,982 --> 00:20:07,342
Speaker 3: So sometimes after a night shift, I'd literally just not sleep.

376
00:20:08,702 --> 00:20:13,062
Speaker 5: Because it was that full on. So, yeah, it was a.

377
00:20:14,862 --> 00:20:16,742
Speaker 3: Lot, a lot of there's still a lot of work now,

378
00:20:16,742 --> 00:20:20,702
Speaker 3: but obviously it's much smoother in operation with having such

379
00:20:20,702 --> 00:20:22,662
Speaker 3: a talented team working on it now.

380
00:20:22,702 --> 00:20:24,462
Speaker 5: But yeah, back then it was pretty full long.

381
00:20:24,702 --> 00:20:29,142
Speaker 2: Given it's your baby, though, it's your case file is

382
00:20:29,182 --> 00:20:34,822
Speaker 2: your child? Do you struggle to give it to other people?

383
00:20:34,902 --> 00:20:36,662
Speaker 2: Are you very close to it still in terms of

384
00:20:36,702 --> 00:20:38,582
Speaker 2: the writing of those scripts and the research and how

385
00:20:38,582 --> 00:20:39,422
Speaker 2: the process goes.

386
00:20:39,862 --> 00:20:41,742
Speaker 3: No, I've got a lot of faith in the team,

387
00:20:41,982 --> 00:20:45,382
Speaker 3: So it's once it's been very fortunate just to find

388
00:20:45,422 --> 00:20:48,902
Speaker 3: such talented and hard working people who I trust. So

389
00:20:49,662 --> 00:20:51,942
Speaker 3: once these people have my trust, it's I'm happy to

390
00:20:51,982 --> 00:20:56,102
Speaker 3: step away. And so the writing and research team now

391
00:20:56,262 --> 00:20:59,982
Speaker 3: is fully led by women. All the rids of researchers

392
00:20:59,982 --> 00:21:03,782
Speaker 3: are women. The head writer, Millie is in charge of

393
00:21:03,862 --> 00:21:07,862
Speaker 3: all the cases, what we're covering, what's the release schedule,

394
00:21:07,982 --> 00:21:12,142
Speaker 3: all of that. Mike's in charge of the production side

395
00:21:12,142 --> 00:21:15,502
Speaker 3: of it, the audio production, what music goes on, and

396
00:21:15,662 --> 00:21:19,662
Speaker 3: sort of the audio production elements. So yeah, and I

397
00:21:19,742 --> 00:21:23,182
Speaker 3: have full trust in the whole team to do that

398
00:21:23,422 --> 00:21:23,902
Speaker 3: because this.

399
00:21:23,942 --> 00:21:26,862
Speaker 2: Is no longer well and truly no longer your side hustle,

400
00:21:26,902 --> 00:21:30,902
Speaker 2: this is your job, right When were you able to

401
00:21:30,942 --> 00:21:34,742
Speaker 2: kind of be like, Okay, goodbye, former career, I'm doing this.

402
00:21:35,702 --> 00:21:38,982
Speaker 3: So case fil was released in episode one in January

403
00:21:39,022 --> 00:21:42,302
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen. It was the end of twenty seventeen where

404
00:21:42,302 --> 00:21:46,382
Speaker 3: I took leave without pay from my job for a year,

405
00:21:47,102 --> 00:21:49,782
Speaker 3: just to I was very on the fence and uming

406
00:21:49,862 --> 00:21:51,942
Speaker 3: and a ring and I don't know what to do.

407
00:21:52,262 --> 00:21:55,582
Speaker 3: This is, so I thought I'd take the year leave

408
00:21:55,622 --> 00:21:59,702
Speaker 3: without pay. And that year went so quick it's unbelievable.

409
00:21:59,822 --> 00:22:02,462
Speaker 3: Was almost like I blinked and then works ringing me,

410
00:22:03,102 --> 00:22:07,142
Speaker 3: are you coming back? And I still wasn't sure at

411
00:22:07,142 --> 00:22:10,342
Speaker 3: that stage. I requested another six months and they said

412
00:22:11,422 --> 00:22:14,982
Speaker 3: either coming back or you're leaving, And so ultimately I

413
00:22:15,102 --> 00:22:17,182
Speaker 3: just decided to leave and try it full time.

414
00:22:17,222 --> 00:22:19,902
Speaker 5: And yeah, so still able to do it. Now?

415
00:22:20,862 --> 00:22:23,262
Speaker 2: What were you sure about? What made you think so hard?

416
00:22:24,262 --> 00:22:25,502
Speaker 2: Did you love your former career?

417
00:22:26,942 --> 00:22:28,982
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say that it was just more stable. I

418
00:22:28,982 --> 00:22:34,502
Speaker 3: guess so because it was it's the unknown a podcast,

419
00:22:34,582 --> 00:22:37,342
Speaker 3: So I don't know, especially back then in two thousand

420
00:22:37,382 --> 00:22:41,862
Speaker 3: and seventeen, it was just it was very much outside

421
00:22:41,902 --> 00:22:44,942
Speaker 3: of my comfort zone, I guess, and I just wasn't

422
00:22:44,982 --> 00:22:47,182
Speaker 3: sure about it. It was like, ah, this is a big

423
00:22:47,262 --> 00:22:51,662
Speaker 3: risk and pressure, but it was good. It was the

424
00:22:51,702 --> 00:22:52,782
Speaker 3: best decision I made.

425
00:22:52,862 --> 00:22:54,862
Speaker 2: This is a bit of a nerdy behind the scenes question,

426
00:22:55,342 --> 00:22:58,782
Speaker 2: but it's pretty common knowledge that advertisers get a bit

427
00:22:58,822 --> 00:23:01,502
Speaker 2: scared of true crime as a genre because we talk

428
00:23:01,542 --> 00:23:07,302
Speaker 2: about murder, blood gore, you know, often deeply harrowing content.

429
00:23:07,982 --> 00:23:13,102
Speaker 2: Has that been a challenge for you in trying to monetize.

430
00:23:12,382 --> 00:23:14,902
Speaker 3: It has been relayed back to me a little bit,

431
00:23:14,942 --> 00:23:18,342
Speaker 3: But from what I've picked up over the years, that

432
00:23:18,502 --> 00:23:21,662
Speaker 3: is a very much Australian thing, right, not so much

433
00:23:21,662 --> 00:23:25,542
Speaker 3: in the US. And we're very fortunate where we have

434
00:23:25,662 --> 00:23:30,462
Speaker 3: such a big audience in the US. It was actually

435
00:23:30,542 --> 00:23:33,622
Speaker 3: half our audience for a number of years was US based.

436
00:23:33,662 --> 00:23:36,342
Speaker 3: It's okay, it's sort of come back a little bit now.

437
00:23:36,382 --> 00:23:40,102
Speaker 3: I think it's even Australia thirty five percent Australia thirty

438
00:23:40,142 --> 00:23:43,662
Speaker 3: five percent US roughly. So we've always had that big

439
00:23:43,782 --> 00:23:48,862
Speaker 3: US audience and the US advertisers don't have that same viewpoint.

440
00:23:49,382 --> 00:23:54,222
Speaker 2: I'm interested to know, like male female split for your podcast,

441
00:23:54,262 --> 00:23:55,982
Speaker 2: do you have a lot of is it mainly women?

442
00:23:56,022 --> 00:23:56,702
Speaker 4: Is it mainly men?

443
00:23:56,982 --> 00:24:00,662
Speaker 5: I believe it's seventy thirty female.

444
00:24:00,782 --> 00:24:02,382
Speaker 4: Seventy percent female?

445
00:24:02,462 --> 00:24:05,942
Speaker 5: Yes, wow, I mean I don't know how accurate that is.

446
00:24:06,022 --> 00:24:07,702
Speaker 3: I don't know how they measure that, but that's the

447
00:24:07,742 --> 00:24:10,902
Speaker 3: stats that come up on our dashboard. Yep, Yeah, it

448
00:24:10,942 --> 00:24:12,862
Speaker 3: was seventy seventy thirty.

449
00:24:13,062 --> 00:24:14,062
Speaker 4: Because we're a bit skewed.

450
00:24:14,062 --> 00:24:17,582
Speaker 2: Obviously we're a women's media company doing a podcast, but

451
00:24:17,782 --> 00:24:20,702
Speaker 2: we have the most male listeners of all the podcasts

452
00:24:20,702 --> 00:24:21,502
Speaker 2: on our network.

453
00:24:21,902 --> 00:24:23,582
Speaker 5: Oh, because a lot of.

454
00:24:23,622 --> 00:24:26,342
Speaker 2: Men don't listen to our the podcast, but they listen

455
00:24:26,422 --> 00:24:29,342
Speaker 2: to us. So that's why I'm so curious to hear it,

456
00:24:29,342 --> 00:24:31,862
Speaker 2: because I do hear that it's women mainly that like

457
00:24:31,902 --> 00:24:33,662
Speaker 2: to listen to true crime podcasts.

458
00:24:33,862 --> 00:24:37,862
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's certainly the case for us. The live show

459
00:24:37,862 --> 00:24:41,942
Speaker 3: that we did in Australia in November in Melbourne, that

460
00:24:42,062 --> 00:24:46,422
Speaker 3: was it was probably ninety plus women in the audience.

461
00:24:47,702 --> 00:24:52,542
Speaker 3: So yeah, very much skewed towards mostly female listeners.

462
00:24:53,662 --> 00:24:55,702
Speaker 4: Fans of case File.

463
00:24:55,902 --> 00:24:58,822
Speaker 2: The og might not realize, but you have about, if

464
00:24:58,862 --> 00:25:02,662
Speaker 2: I'm correct, twenty one other podcasts under kind of the

465
00:25:02,702 --> 00:25:06,902
Speaker 2: banner of case File presents smaller you know, like the

466
00:25:06,982 --> 00:25:10,382
Speaker 2: Easy Street Murders. You've got like a kind of serie

467
00:25:10,662 --> 00:25:14,142
Speaker 2: on that particular case. How did that come about in

468
00:25:14,222 --> 00:25:15,982
Speaker 2: terms of like branching out and doing that.

469
00:25:16,502 --> 00:25:19,462
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's something that I had thought about pretty

470
00:25:19,502 --> 00:25:23,222
Speaker 3: early on. Once Case File started getting successful, I was

471
00:25:23,262 --> 00:25:26,662
Speaker 3: really interested. As much as my vision for Case fil

472
00:25:26,742 --> 00:25:29,702
Speaker 3: was the style that we do now, I also obviously

473
00:25:29,742 --> 00:25:32,622
Speaker 3: really like Cereal and that style as well, and I

474
00:25:32,702 --> 00:25:36,142
Speaker 3: was interested in trying to do some of that long form, investigative,

475
00:25:36,262 --> 00:25:39,182
Speaker 3: deep dive stuff. And so that's basically how it came about.

476
00:25:39,222 --> 00:25:42,462
Speaker 3: The Case File presents idea, let's give a platform to

477
00:25:42,582 --> 00:25:46,102
Speaker 3: other people to tell their stories. So you know, we

478
00:25:46,142 --> 00:25:48,462
Speaker 3: have like Vicki Petratus, who's done a number well known

479
00:25:48,462 --> 00:25:53,422
Speaker 3: true crime author journalists, pis whoever sort of has a story,

480
00:25:54,182 --> 00:25:56,462
Speaker 3: and we're able to provide that platform, give them an

481
00:25:56,502 --> 00:25:58,822
Speaker 3: audience to elevate their stories.

482
00:25:59,422 --> 00:26:01,542
Speaker 4: And do you work really closely with those podcasts?

483
00:26:01,662 --> 00:26:04,262
Speaker 3: Depends on the show, okay, it just it depends on

484
00:26:04,302 --> 00:26:06,222
Speaker 3: the show, depends on the creator. Some people are like,

485
00:26:06,422 --> 00:26:08,822
Speaker 3: let me alone, I'll send you when I'm done, and

486
00:26:08,862 --> 00:26:10,982
Speaker 3: I'm happy with that because I've obviously put that I

487
00:26:11,062 --> 00:26:14,782
Speaker 3: trust them enough to offer them the opportunity. So I

488
00:26:14,862 --> 00:26:17,222
Speaker 3: believe that they can do it, but other people wanted

489
00:26:17,222 --> 00:26:19,382
Speaker 3: more hands on approach and can you help me outit this?

490
00:26:19,502 --> 00:26:21,542
Speaker 5: And what do you think of this? And so it

491
00:26:21,622 --> 00:26:22,542
Speaker 5: just depends on the show.

492
00:26:22,982 --> 00:26:25,982
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be as involved or as uninvolved as

493
00:26:26,302 --> 00:26:26,982
Speaker 3: they want me to be.

494
00:26:27,982 --> 00:26:29,502
Speaker 2: And this is news to me. But I found out

495
00:26:29,502 --> 00:26:33,982
Speaker 2: today that Case File has a game. Yes, so you

496
00:26:33,982 --> 00:26:36,142
Speaker 2: can play case File board game.

497
00:26:36,182 --> 00:26:39,862
Speaker 3: It's a board game. Yeah, so Goliath, the board game company,

498
00:26:39,862 --> 00:26:42,262
Speaker 3: reached out to us and wanted to do a game,

499
00:26:42,302 --> 00:26:45,142
Speaker 3: and we were a bit unsure about that. Obviously, had

500
00:26:45,182 --> 00:26:48,422
Speaker 3: to just see what they had in mind. But obviously

501
00:26:48,462 --> 00:26:52,582
Speaker 3: it's a completely fictional storyline, and you know, we're happy

502
00:26:52,582 --> 00:26:55,462
Speaker 3: with what they came up with. And yeah, so that's

503
00:26:55,622 --> 00:26:58,862
Speaker 3: They've just released a version two, so they must be

504
00:26:58,942 --> 00:27:01,662
Speaker 3: happy enough with our version one went. Version two is

505
00:27:01,702 --> 00:27:04,062
Speaker 3: only available in the US at this time.

506
00:27:04,102 --> 00:27:04,302
Speaker 5: Though.

507
00:27:04,862 --> 00:27:06,902
Speaker 4: What's your lens?

508
00:27:07,062 --> 00:27:10,742
Speaker 2: Every podcast has like a bit of a lens as

509
00:27:10,742 --> 00:27:13,582
Speaker 2: to how they pick a story or a case that

510
00:27:13,582 --> 00:27:14,822
Speaker 2: they're going to cover.

511
00:27:14,982 --> 00:27:17,102
Speaker 4: Do you have a way to pick?

512
00:27:17,222 --> 00:27:22,702
Speaker 3: There's no one lens I would say, other than we

513
00:27:22,942 --> 00:27:27,022
Speaker 3: don't do a case just because it's gruesome, or to

514
00:27:27,382 --> 00:27:29,822
Speaker 3: cover the gore or you know, big gratrudus or anything

515
00:27:29,902 --> 00:27:33,142
Speaker 3: like that. There's got to be a reason for it. Like,

516
00:27:34,382 --> 00:27:38,622
Speaker 3: I'm personally close to unsolved cases, so I like covering

517
00:27:38,662 --> 00:27:41,302
Speaker 3: those and giving those a voice. But there's reasons to

518
00:27:41,342 --> 00:27:46,862
Speaker 3: cover other stories as well, you know, the societal impacts,

519
00:27:47,622 --> 00:27:53,742
Speaker 3: justice system issues, wrongful convictions, problems with police investigations, voices

520
00:27:53,742 --> 00:27:59,342
Speaker 3: who were ignored, under represented community. There's many, many different reasons.

521
00:27:59,422 --> 00:28:01,782
Speaker 3: It just depends on the case. Yeah, but generally there

522
00:28:01,782 --> 00:28:04,462
Speaker 3: has to be a reason. There's some sort of forensic

523
00:28:04,502 --> 00:28:08,662
Speaker 3: element that's interesting to put out there, or the genetic

524
00:28:08,702 --> 00:28:11,742
Speaker 3: genealogy stuff that's become big in recent years, that sort

525
00:28:11,782 --> 00:28:12,102
Speaker 3: of thing.

526
00:28:12,782 --> 00:28:17,222
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you find that there are certain kind of

527
00:28:17,222 --> 00:28:20,742
Speaker 2: styles that your audience prefers. I'll give you an example

528
00:28:20,782 --> 00:28:23,062
Speaker 2: from our side. Whenever we do an episode about a cult,

529
00:28:23,822 --> 00:28:27,022
Speaker 2: it goes really well. Okay, do you have kind of

530
00:28:27,102 --> 00:28:29,662
Speaker 2: episodes that you know are going to go well before

531
00:28:29,702 --> 00:28:30,782
Speaker 2: you've even put them out?

532
00:28:31,542 --> 00:28:37,462
Speaker 3: Not really, We're pretty each episode is pretty on par

533
00:28:37,622 --> 00:28:41,302
Speaker 3: with another episode. Yeah, they all do pretty well. So

534
00:28:42,022 --> 00:28:45,262
Speaker 3: we don't really have an insight into this particular case.

535
00:28:46,422 --> 00:28:49,782
Speaker 3: We'll do better than this particular case. Nothing like that

536
00:28:49,782 --> 00:28:52,022
Speaker 3: that doesn't come that doesn't factor into the decision.

537
00:28:52,062 --> 00:28:53,342
Speaker 4: Meaning, are there.

538
00:28:53,182 --> 00:28:56,302
Speaker 2: Any episodes I know you've done over three hundred but

539
00:28:57,022 --> 00:28:58,302
Speaker 2: that you're particularly proud of.

540
00:28:59,982 --> 00:29:02,222
Speaker 3: But the ones that stand out to me would be

541
00:29:02,262 --> 00:29:08,062
Speaker 3: one like the unsolved murder of Britney Phillips, which is

542
00:29:08,102 --> 00:29:11,742
Speaker 3: a US case and I touched them earlier that unsolved

543
00:29:11,742 --> 00:29:16,142
Speaker 3: cases are the ones that are closest to me. And

544
00:29:16,342 --> 00:29:19,582
Speaker 3: Maggie Zingman, who is Brittany's mother, came across her story

545
00:29:20,102 --> 00:29:23,982
Speaker 3: in that she couldn't get any coverage for her daughter's

546
00:29:24,022 --> 00:29:28,302
Speaker 3: unsolved murder that happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, And so she's

547
00:29:28,302 --> 00:29:33,062
Speaker 3: been driving around for fifteen eighteen years whatever it was

548
00:29:33,102 --> 00:29:36,542
Speaker 3: at the time when we actually covered the case. She's

549
00:29:36,542 --> 00:29:39,462
Speaker 3: got her car decked out in like a rap with

550
00:29:39,502 --> 00:29:43,022
Speaker 3: all the details of her daughter's crime and just driving around.

551
00:29:43,182 --> 00:29:47,542
Speaker 3: She's been to every state in the continental US multiple times,

552
00:29:47,662 --> 00:29:50,062
Speaker 3: just driving around. She calls a caravan to catch a killer,

553
00:29:50,182 --> 00:29:53,902
Speaker 3: just raising awareness, just you never know, someone might know

554
00:29:53,982 --> 00:29:58,222
Speaker 3: something somewhere. And despite that, she was unable to get

555
00:29:58,222 --> 00:30:02,062
Speaker 3: any sort of national coverage or anything. So we were

556
00:30:02,062 --> 00:30:04,742
Speaker 3: put in touch and we were able to cover that

557
00:30:04,742 --> 00:30:05,702
Speaker 3: story on Case File.

558
00:30:06,582 --> 00:30:07,942
Speaker 5: I forget when that was released.

559
00:30:07,982 --> 00:30:09,662
Speaker 3: It was a few years ago now, But to this day,

560
00:30:09,782 --> 00:30:12,822
Speaker 3: Maggie will still will email me and say she still

561
00:30:12,862 --> 00:30:16,262
Speaker 3: gets people emailing her because they've heard the Case File episode.

562
00:30:16,302 --> 00:30:20,422
Speaker 3: And there's been no sort of groundbreaking tips at this point,

563
00:30:20,462 --> 00:30:22,382
Speaker 3: but there's been a few things here and there, and

564
00:30:22,582 --> 00:30:24,462
Speaker 3: she's just so appreciative of that coverage.

565
00:30:24,502 --> 00:30:28,502
Speaker 5: So to me, that's something very worthwhile.

566
00:30:29,022 --> 00:30:31,622
Speaker 2: I find it so interesting that you worked closely with

567
00:30:31,902 --> 00:30:35,462
Speaker 2: a family member to create that script. I'm guessing do

568
00:30:35,502 --> 00:30:38,862
Speaker 2: you do that often? Do you have family members or

569
00:30:38,942 --> 00:30:42,182
Speaker 2: people that were close to the crime involved in the

570
00:30:42,182 --> 00:30:43,422
Speaker 2: crafting of the episode.

571
00:30:43,822 --> 00:30:46,662
Speaker 3: Yeah, not every episode, but it does definitely happen. And

572
00:30:46,862 --> 00:30:51,102
Speaker 3: I guess because we have that single storyteller style, we

573
00:30:51,142 --> 00:30:53,622
Speaker 3: don't include interview clips that might not be overly apparent

574
00:30:53,982 --> 00:30:58,302
Speaker 3: that we do that, but it does happen, Yeah, you

575
00:30:58,342 --> 00:31:01,062
Speaker 3: know often, will have. I mean, at this point, we

576
00:31:01,182 --> 00:31:04,422
Speaker 3: get unfortunately, way more emails than we could ever get

577
00:31:04,422 --> 00:31:09,702
Speaker 3: to for from family members or advocates or friends or

578
00:31:09,702 --> 00:31:13,382
Speaker 3: family who requesting us to cover cases. I wish I

579
00:31:13,382 --> 00:31:16,262
Speaker 3: could get to all of them, but it's just not

580
00:31:16,422 --> 00:31:17,582
Speaker 3: possible at this point.

581
00:31:18,302 --> 00:31:21,742
Speaker 2: Are there any stories that haunt you? Obviously every story

582
00:31:21,822 --> 00:31:23,422
Speaker 2: is usually horrible.

583
00:31:24,702 --> 00:31:28,222
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean all the unsolved ones,

584
00:31:28,302 --> 00:31:30,142
Speaker 3: I mean they all haunt you. They will have an

585
00:31:30,142 --> 00:31:34,662
Speaker 3: effect at some level. The unsolved ones where we work

586
00:31:34,702 --> 00:31:40,822
Speaker 3: with family are particularly harder than others. I would say, yeah,

587
00:31:41,422 --> 00:31:43,142
Speaker 3: the Brittany Phillips one I just touched on. I was

588
00:31:43,182 --> 00:31:45,262
Speaker 3: lucky enough to meet Maggie in person last year at

589
00:31:45,302 --> 00:31:47,462
Speaker 3: Crime Con for the first time, so that was really

590
00:31:47,502 --> 00:31:50,662
Speaker 3: good to meet her in person. The series that I

591
00:31:50,702 --> 00:31:53,462
Speaker 3: released last year on the Case File Presents Platform Missing

592
00:31:53,502 --> 00:31:56,622
Speaker 3: Neam that I that took me over four years to

593
00:31:56,622 --> 00:32:01,102
Speaker 3: put together that series, So obviously that four years that

594
00:32:01,182 --> 00:32:01,902
Speaker 3: had an effect.

595
00:32:02,662 --> 00:32:02,862
Speaker 5: Yep.

596
00:32:03,502 --> 00:32:05,862
Speaker 2: It's so interesting because like at the start of the chat,

597
00:32:06,022 --> 00:32:08,382
Speaker 2: you were talking about, you know, seeing the books in

598
00:32:08,422 --> 00:32:12,902
Speaker 2: your aunties and being like, oh, yeah, true crime and

599
00:32:12,942 --> 00:32:16,382
Speaker 2: now it's you live breathe talk about it every day.

600
00:32:17,942 --> 00:32:19,182
Speaker 4: Does that have an effect on you?

601
00:32:20,782 --> 00:32:21,502
Speaker 5: I guess it does.

602
00:32:22,742 --> 00:32:25,702
Speaker 3: Obviously has because I can't consume any true crime stuff

603
00:32:25,702 --> 00:32:29,462
Speaker 3: anymore outside of what's required for work. So people might

604
00:32:29,462 --> 00:32:32,622
Speaker 3: be talking about the latest Netflix series or whatever, there's.

605
00:32:32,822 --> 00:32:34,742
Speaker 5: I haven't watched any of them. I've got no idea.

606
00:32:35,022 --> 00:32:38,262
Speaker 3: It's just not something that I can do outside of

607
00:32:38,382 --> 00:32:42,142
Speaker 3: what's required for work now, so I've got to seek

608
00:32:42,182 --> 00:32:46,022
Speaker 3: other sort of avenues to unwind and stuff. But yeah,

609
00:32:46,102 --> 00:32:49,262
Speaker 3: so I guess it's hard to say. I guess when

610
00:32:49,262 --> 00:32:51,782
Speaker 3: you're living every day.

611
00:32:51,862 --> 00:32:55,662
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can still watch the Netflix shows and I

612
00:32:55,742 --> 00:32:57,422
Speaker 2: live and breathe true crime every day.

613
00:32:57,422 --> 00:32:59,822
Speaker 4: So I think it just is different people.

614
00:33:00,342 --> 00:33:02,502
Speaker 5: Yeah, it just depends on There's no sort of right

615
00:33:02,622 --> 00:33:03,302
Speaker 5: or wrong answer.

616
00:33:03,582 --> 00:33:06,862
Speaker 2: Yeah, has your research ever I know you were talking

617
00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:09,262
Speaker 2: about Britney's moum, but has it ever kind of led

618
00:33:09,262 --> 00:33:12,822
Speaker 2: to a break through or helped an investigation?

619
00:33:13,982 --> 00:33:15,782
Speaker 3: I don't think so, not that I know of, Like

620
00:33:15,862 --> 00:33:18,422
Speaker 3: that Case File episode hasn't directly led to a case

621
00:33:18,502 --> 00:33:22,262
Speaker 3: being solved. Obviously, we've covered unsolved cases that have then

622
00:33:22,462 --> 00:33:25,142
Speaker 3: become solved, not because of the case fil coverage, but

623
00:33:25,222 --> 00:33:28,462
Speaker 3: that has happened. We've definitely received tips over the years,

624
00:33:29,022 --> 00:33:31,182
Speaker 3: you know, I've had tips come directly to me and

625
00:33:31,582 --> 00:33:35,302
Speaker 3: I'm like, I can't I'm not an investigative agency, Like

626
00:33:35,342 --> 00:33:38,542
Speaker 3: I can't do anything with this, and sort of encourage

627
00:33:38,582 --> 00:33:41,742
Speaker 3: those people to contact the relevant law enforcement agency.

628
00:33:42,582 --> 00:33:44,422
Speaker 2: That's a lot of pressure on you though, as well,

629
00:33:44,462 --> 00:33:47,222
Speaker 2: getting tips through your email and you're like, I'm just

630
00:33:47,302 --> 00:33:48,182
Speaker 2: toasting a podcast.

631
00:33:48,302 --> 00:33:49,782
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean.

632
00:33:51,782 --> 00:33:53,622
Speaker 3: I get it's tough too because a lot of these

633
00:33:53,622 --> 00:33:56,062
Speaker 3: cases are decades old, and so from the point of

634
00:33:56,142 --> 00:33:58,142
Speaker 3: view of the person like, well, the police don't care,

635
00:33:58,182 --> 00:34:00,862
Speaker 3: they're not doing anything. That's probably their perception. Whether that's

636
00:34:00,902 --> 00:34:03,062
Speaker 3: the truth or not, I don't know, it could be different.

637
00:34:03,142 --> 00:34:06,702
Speaker 3: But if there is ever something I could actually do

638
00:34:06,822 --> 00:34:08,502
Speaker 3: to help a case, of course I would do it.

639
00:34:08,542 --> 00:34:11,582
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think I definitely don't want to be

640
00:34:11,622 --> 00:34:13,942
Speaker 3: overreaching and trying to take on the role of an

641
00:34:13,942 --> 00:34:17,582
Speaker 3: investigative agency. I think the first port of call is

642
00:34:17,622 --> 00:34:18,102
Speaker 3: the police.

643
00:34:18,942 --> 00:34:24,022
Speaker 2: And yeah, you've no doubt watched the True Crime Space

644
00:34:24,302 --> 00:34:27,422
Speaker 2: explode over the last nine years. I mean, we're here,

645
00:34:27,462 --> 00:34:31,782
Speaker 2: we've popped up and plenty of other podcasts. Do you

646
00:34:31,862 --> 00:34:33,942
Speaker 2: fixate on the charts? I mean you're usually at the

647
00:34:33,982 --> 00:34:35,462
Speaker 2: top of them, so you don't need to have to worry.

648
00:34:35,582 --> 00:34:40,222
Speaker 2: But is it interesting watching it explode and all these

649
00:34:40,342 --> 00:34:44,142
Speaker 2: new podcasts in your kind of space come up?

650
00:34:44,342 --> 00:34:44,582
Speaker 5: Yeah?

651
00:34:44,662 --> 00:34:48,342
Speaker 3: It still remains one of the most popular, I believe

652
00:34:48,542 --> 00:34:51,462
Speaker 3: of the podcast categories, and there's been all sorts of

653
00:34:51,542 --> 00:34:55,182
Speaker 3: shows that have popped up since and continue to be popular.

654
00:34:55,302 --> 00:34:58,422
Speaker 3: And yeah, obviously there was In Australia we have the

655
00:34:58,462 --> 00:35:01,782
Speaker 3: Teacher's Pet which has led to a result, So there's

656
00:35:01,822 --> 00:35:03,542
Speaker 3: been a lot that has happened over the years.

657
00:35:03,582 --> 00:35:07,062
Speaker 2: Yeah, why do you think Case File still dominates all

658
00:35:07,062 --> 00:35:07,742
Speaker 2: these years later?

659
00:35:07,862 --> 00:35:09,702
Speaker 5: That's a great question. I have no idea.

660
00:35:11,302 --> 00:35:13,422
Speaker 3: It's almost like every day I wake up, I'm like,

661
00:35:13,542 --> 00:35:18,302
Speaker 3: is this the day where everyone stops listening? Or it's hard?

662
00:35:19,462 --> 00:35:23,862
Speaker 3: It doesn't seem real. And it's pretty rare to have

663
00:35:23,982 --> 00:35:26,062
Speaker 3: been for a show to be at the top for

664
00:35:26,102 --> 00:35:29,902
Speaker 3: so long too. I mean, obviously we have regular early episodes,

665
00:35:29,982 --> 00:35:33,302
Speaker 3: so those bigger sort of investigative shows like Your Teachers

666
00:35:33,342 --> 00:35:36,622
Speaker 3: pattern stuff that are limited run, they can't say the

667
00:35:36,662 --> 00:35:42,222
Speaker 3: top because they're not there. Yeah, they're short runs, so

668
00:35:42,262 --> 00:35:46,342
Speaker 3: we have that to our advantage. But yeah, I don't know,

669
00:35:46,382 --> 00:35:49,382
Speaker 3: and we don't take it for granted. We continue just

670
00:35:49,422 --> 00:35:52,742
Speaker 3: to put our heads down, work really hard and try

671
00:35:52,862 --> 00:35:55,942
Speaker 3: to continually improve the episodes and what we're doing, and

672
00:35:56,942 --> 00:35:59,302
Speaker 3: as long as people keep listening, we will keep doing it.

673
00:35:59,582 --> 00:36:02,342
Speaker 2: Well, you've obviously met some of your audience in real life.

674
00:36:02,462 --> 00:36:05,422
Speaker 2: You've done a few in person chats, but do you

675
00:36:05,462 --> 00:36:07,742
Speaker 2: get a lot of feedback from audience of where they're

676
00:36:07,782 --> 00:36:08,342
Speaker 2: listening and.

677
00:36:10,102 --> 00:36:11,102
Speaker 4: Why love the show.

678
00:36:12,542 --> 00:36:16,302
Speaker 3: The most common feedback that I have gotten from people

679
00:36:16,622 --> 00:36:19,222
Speaker 3: in both in person people email in and write comments

680
00:36:19,222 --> 00:36:22,982
Speaker 3: and stuff, is just they appreciate the no nonsense storytelling,

681
00:36:23,022 --> 00:36:27,662
Speaker 3: I guess, the empathetic storytelling. There's no banter or chit chat,

682
00:36:27,702 --> 00:36:30,662
Speaker 3: so I guess they like that about our style as well.

683
00:36:32,062 --> 00:36:34,902
Speaker 3: And just what I touched on before that it's not

684
00:36:35,022 --> 00:36:39,702
Speaker 3: just we're not just telling stories about gratuitous violences. Generally

685
00:36:40,182 --> 00:36:44,702
Speaker 3: something else to it, some sort of impact somewhere, judicial system,

686
00:36:44,942 --> 00:36:49,982
Speaker 3: criminal justice system, police whatever. And yeah, that's I guess

687
00:36:49,982 --> 00:36:53,142
Speaker 3: the most the most common feedback that I've gotten.

688
00:36:53,502 --> 00:36:56,022
Speaker 2: I have a feeling you accompany many people on their

689
00:36:56,102 --> 00:36:57,342
Speaker 2: road trips.

690
00:36:57,462 --> 00:36:59,902
Speaker 3: In terms of where they listen. Yeah, yeah, road trips

691
00:37:00,182 --> 00:37:03,742
Speaker 3: is very popular. Gym walks runs, that sort of thing

692
00:37:03,822 --> 00:37:05,262
Speaker 3: is very popular as well.

693
00:37:06,062 --> 00:37:07,742
Speaker 5: And it's funny.

694
00:37:07,742 --> 00:37:13,022
Speaker 3: Actually, Anthony the other audio bridge was at a friend's

695
00:37:13,022 --> 00:37:17,782
Speaker 3: house recently and he's popped out of the car and

696
00:37:17,822 --> 00:37:18,742
Speaker 3: he's heard my voice.

697
00:37:19,662 --> 00:37:20,782
Speaker 5: He's like, what's going on here?

698
00:37:21,302 --> 00:37:23,462
Speaker 3: And it turns out a neighbor of his friend was

699
00:37:23,502 --> 00:37:29,502
Speaker 3: in the garage doing a workout and had Case File laring. So, yeah,

700
00:37:30,142 --> 00:37:32,182
Speaker 3: that's never happened to me. I've never bumped into anyone

701
00:37:32,222 --> 00:37:34,742
Speaker 3: listening to case File really, no, well.

702
00:37:34,622 --> 00:37:35,222
Speaker 5: Not that I know of.

703
00:37:36,022 --> 00:37:38,342
Speaker 2: Yeah, you haven't seen it on their phone. I've done

704
00:37:38,382 --> 00:37:40,702
Speaker 2: that a few times where I've seen our podcast.

705
00:37:40,382 --> 00:37:43,342
Speaker 5: On someone's phone. Yeah, no, no, never.

706
00:37:44,102 --> 00:37:48,062
Speaker 2: Because your voice is very familiar now, like you've done

707
00:37:48,102 --> 00:37:52,542
Speaker 2: over three hundred episodes, and you didn't have any audio training.

708
00:37:52,262 --> 00:37:53,142
Speaker 4: Did you.

709
00:37:53,182 --> 00:37:56,822
Speaker 2: No, But I think most people that listen would be

710
00:37:56,862 --> 00:37:59,342
Speaker 2: able to recognize your voice in a lineup.

711
00:38:00,182 --> 00:38:04,102
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe, but some people don't know. At an event

712
00:38:04,142 --> 00:38:07,262
Speaker 3: only last week and I was talking to someone and

713
00:38:07,422 --> 00:38:09,622
Speaker 3: I mentioned I was from case File. There was a

714
00:38:09,622 --> 00:38:12,942
Speaker 3: podcast event and they were like, oh, a famous voice,

715
00:38:12,982 --> 00:38:16,502
Speaker 3: so who does the voice? And so they had no

716
00:38:16,582 --> 00:38:19,982
Speaker 3: idea that it was. I'd say that's me, and they

717
00:38:19,982 --> 00:38:23,862
Speaker 3: were like, oh, you sound very sefferent in real life.

718
00:38:24,182 --> 00:38:26,862
Speaker 4: So you do tell people that you come across that you.

719
00:38:26,782 --> 00:38:30,862
Speaker 3: Are not everyone, but in that environment, I was okay

720
00:38:32,182 --> 00:38:35,022
Speaker 3: to talk about it that particular event, but it's not

721
00:38:35,062 --> 00:38:37,782
Speaker 3: something or I just freely disclosed and day to day

722
00:38:37,822 --> 00:38:39,102
Speaker 3: on the street or anything like that.

723
00:38:39,262 --> 00:38:45,862
Speaker 2: No, next I ask the anonymous host of case File

724
00:38:46,062 --> 00:38:48,382
Speaker 2: who he will reveal his identity to.

725
00:38:52,382 --> 00:38:53,062
Speaker 4: Nerdy again.

726
00:38:53,262 --> 00:38:55,502
Speaker 2: But I was at the Australian Podcast Awards and I

727
00:38:55,542 --> 00:38:57,942
Speaker 2: hear you were too. I was, but I wouldn't have

728
00:38:58,062 --> 00:38:59,582
Speaker 2: known it because I didn't know what you learn.

729
00:38:59,622 --> 00:39:02,062
Speaker 5: I was just lurking in the shadows at the back

730
00:39:02,102 --> 00:39:02,702
Speaker 5: of the room there.

731
00:39:02,902 --> 00:39:06,022
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you don't well, I don't remember you getting up.

732
00:39:06,062 --> 00:39:08,822
Speaker 2: Case File Presents at least got an award that night.

733
00:39:08,862 --> 00:39:11,502
Speaker 5: From memory, we were nominated, didn't didn't win.

734
00:39:11,702 --> 00:39:13,062
Speaker 4: Would you have gotten up if you won?

735
00:39:14,022 --> 00:39:14,982
Speaker 5: No?

736
00:39:14,982 --> 00:39:17,582
Speaker 3: No, I think members of the a cast team were

737
00:39:17,622 --> 00:39:19,102
Speaker 3: going to step in and do that for us.

738
00:39:19,822 --> 00:39:20,662
Speaker 5: So that was easy.

739
00:39:20,702 --> 00:39:24,742
Speaker 3: Street and Troubled Warders were both nominated in different categories.

740
00:39:24,902 --> 00:39:28,182
Speaker 2: So you are still very careful in terms of like

741
00:39:28,262 --> 00:39:30,542
Speaker 2: you'll do certain things, like you'll stand in front of

742
00:39:30,542 --> 00:39:33,382
Speaker 2: an intimate audience, but you won't get up on a

743
00:39:33,382 --> 00:39:34,942
Speaker 2: stage in a podcasting awards.

744
00:39:36,182 --> 00:39:36,422
Speaker 6: Yeah.

745
00:39:37,022 --> 00:39:37,502
Speaker 5: I don't know why.

746
00:39:37,502 --> 00:39:41,902
Speaker 3: It probably seems a bit contradictory. No, it clever and

747
00:39:41,942 --> 00:39:43,662
Speaker 3: in saying that, if I was at that award show

748
00:39:43,702 --> 00:39:47,502
Speaker 3: and bumped into you and you introduce yourself, Like at

749
00:39:47,542 --> 00:39:51,342
Speaker 3: that sort of environment, I would have said who I was?

750
00:39:51,462 --> 00:39:54,622
Speaker 2: Yeah, well i'll recognize you now now you will. Yes,

751
00:39:56,062 --> 00:39:58,942
Speaker 2: Where do you think the future of podcasting is going?

752
00:39:59,022 --> 00:40:01,422
Speaker 2: Is someone that's been in the world for so long

753
00:40:01,502 --> 00:40:03,502
Speaker 2: because it is so saturated.

754
00:40:02,942 --> 00:40:07,062
Speaker 3: Now, I think from what I read and see, everything

755
00:40:07,142 --> 00:40:11,982
Speaker 3: seems to be pointing towards video. Videos come a very

756
00:40:12,022 --> 00:40:15,222
Speaker 3: big thing, which I don't know what kind of Well,

757
00:40:15,422 --> 00:40:18,222
Speaker 3: video is not podcasting, though, it's a different thing.

758
00:40:18,382 --> 00:40:20,262
Speaker 4: You'll have to get a good silhouette.

759
00:40:20,382 --> 00:40:23,862
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we've just made changes to our YouTube channel

760
00:40:23,902 --> 00:40:26,222
Speaker 3: so we release on YouTube as well. So as of

761
00:40:26,302 --> 00:40:29,862
Speaker 3: the first episode we've released this year, we've incorporated sort

762
00:40:29,862 --> 00:40:32,942
Speaker 3: of pitches and maps and different things that will overlay

763
00:40:32,982 --> 00:40:35,822
Speaker 3: on the screen and it's kind of like an animated

764
00:40:36,222 --> 00:40:40,582
Speaker 3: studio silhouette of a person recording. So we've made some tweaks,

765
00:40:41,142 --> 00:40:42,942
Speaker 3: leaning into the video a bit more, doing what we

766
00:40:42,982 --> 00:40:46,102
Speaker 3: can because obviously we are limited. But yeah, it's a

767
00:40:46,182 --> 00:40:49,622
Speaker 3: very different landscape now than was to when Case File started.

768
00:40:51,142 --> 00:40:53,862
Speaker 3: I find it now when we release case File present shows.

769
00:40:53,862 --> 00:40:58,022
Speaker 3: Sometimes even though we have a massive audience to advertise

770
00:40:58,102 --> 00:41:03,702
Speaker 3: that too, sometimes it can not take it's just very

771
00:41:03,742 --> 00:41:07,062
Speaker 3: hard to break through now. I think there's so many

772
00:41:07,182 --> 00:41:12,902
Speaker 3: established shows launching a new show much tougher. Not to

773
00:41:12,902 --> 00:41:14,582
Speaker 3: say it can't be done, of course it can be,

774
00:41:15,262 --> 00:41:17,622
Speaker 3: it's just much tougher now. I think the barrier to

775
00:41:17,782 --> 00:41:19,542
Speaker 3: entry is a little bit higher now.

776
00:41:19,702 --> 00:41:23,862
Speaker 2: So if you were to try and release your episode

777
00:41:23,902 --> 00:41:28,022
Speaker 2: one from twenty sixteen now and do what you did now.

778
00:41:27,822 --> 00:41:30,262
Speaker 3: I think that would be what the original It would

779
00:41:30,302 --> 00:41:33,022
Speaker 3: turn out to what the original thought was three episodes,

780
00:41:33,022 --> 00:41:35,502
Speaker 3: and I'd be back to work. Yeah, I couldn't see

781
00:41:35,502 --> 00:41:38,102
Speaker 3: it taking off now, just with how bad the audio

782
00:41:38,302 --> 00:41:40,942
Speaker 3: was as well. So I think there's a much higher

783
00:41:42,142 --> 00:41:46,742
Speaker 3: level of quality now audio production and just the product,

784
00:41:46,742 --> 00:41:48,342
Speaker 3: the shows themselves, the content.

785
00:41:49,102 --> 00:41:49,662
Speaker 5: Yeah.

786
00:41:49,822 --> 00:41:50,742
Speaker 4: Do you still love it?

787
00:41:51,582 --> 00:41:52,942
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah still.

788
00:41:54,982 --> 00:41:56,942
Speaker 3: As I said, I wake up every day just so

789
00:41:57,782 --> 00:42:00,462
Speaker 3: I can't believe that the show has the audience that

790
00:42:00,542 --> 00:42:02,542
Speaker 3: it has, and that I get to work with such

791
00:42:02,582 --> 00:42:05,742
Speaker 3: a talented group of people and people listen, and that

792
00:42:05,822 --> 00:42:06,502
Speaker 3: we get to do this.

793
00:42:06,622 --> 00:42:08,422
Speaker 5: Yeah, very fortunate.

794
00:42:08,822 --> 00:42:12,302
Speaker 2: So you've just come back from summer break in February,

795
00:42:12,782 --> 00:42:13,382
Speaker 2: lucky bugger.

796
00:42:13,742 --> 00:42:16,302
Speaker 3: Yes, although that is a bit of a misconception. I

797
00:42:16,502 --> 00:42:18,862
Speaker 3: like to clear up that we've been bombarded with one

798
00:42:18,902 --> 00:42:21,342
Speaker 3: star review, so we've taken too long off. I can

799
00:42:21,342 --> 00:42:25,102
Speaker 3: assure everyone we have been working very hard. I mean,

800
00:42:25,382 --> 00:42:27,542
Speaker 3: of course we had two weeks off over the Christmas

801
00:42:27,542 --> 00:42:29,982
Speaker 3: New Year period itself, but as soon as the last

802
00:42:30,022 --> 00:42:32,542
Speaker 3: episode came out last year, we would have wrapped that

803
00:42:32,622 --> 00:42:34,702
Speaker 3: up in October, so as soon as that was sort

804
00:42:34,742 --> 00:42:36,822
Speaker 3: of done and recorded, might not have been released yet,

805
00:42:36,862 --> 00:42:38,462
Speaker 3: but we were straight onto twenty twenty five.

806
00:42:38,942 --> 00:42:41,102
Speaker 4: So listeners rest assured you were working.

807
00:42:41,182 --> 00:42:44,062
Speaker 3: You just went related to Yeah, we sort of need

808
00:42:44,062 --> 00:42:46,542
Speaker 3: that three month lead in just to get ready for

809
00:42:47,102 --> 00:42:50,822
Speaker 3: the new year, because otherwise it can In past years

810
00:42:50,822 --> 00:42:53,622
Speaker 3: it's just been a nightmare. We've barely been days ahead.

811
00:42:53,742 --> 00:42:55,702
Speaker 3: Like I've finished recording an episode, got to get it

812
00:42:55,702 --> 00:42:58,182
Speaker 3: to Mike. He's got three days to put the audio production,

813
00:42:58,262 --> 00:43:01,542
Speaker 3: get it out and that's not a good way to operate. Stressful,

814
00:43:02,022 --> 00:43:03,422
Speaker 3: so we try and keep ahead of that.

815
00:43:03,502 --> 00:43:05,982
Speaker 2: Now, So what can we expect. What are some of

816
00:43:05,982 --> 00:43:07,462
Speaker 2: the episodes that you have coming up?

817
00:43:08,022 --> 00:43:12,622
Speaker 3: Listeners can expect I think more of what they have

818
00:43:12,742 --> 00:43:15,342
Speaker 3: come to know and love about Case File, as varied

819
00:43:15,422 --> 00:43:19,022
Speaker 3: cases from Australia from around the world. There's all sorts

820
00:43:19,062 --> 00:43:24,222
Speaker 3: of different cases more recent older. We are launching with

821
00:43:24,262 --> 00:43:28,622
Speaker 3: the two parter on the Night Caller, which was the

822
00:43:28,662 --> 00:43:34,142
Speaker 3: serial offender Eric Agacook in Perth, Western Australia, and I

823
00:43:34,182 --> 00:43:37,902
Speaker 3: think what's interesting about that case is just such a

824
00:43:37,902 --> 00:43:39,982
Speaker 3: different time when that was happening, and you have this

825
00:43:40,102 --> 00:43:45,942
Speaker 3: prolific serial offender just wreaking havoc across the city, and

826
00:43:46,062 --> 00:43:48,582
Speaker 3: yet they didn't put it together that it was the

827
00:43:48,622 --> 00:43:53,782
Speaker 3: same offender. I mean, there's multiple wrongful convictions despite a

828
00:43:53,862 --> 00:43:57,382
Speaker 3: confession from Eric A. Gocook in this case after he

829
00:43:57,422 --> 00:44:00,502
Speaker 3: was eventually caught and he confessed, and they put together, oh,

830
00:44:00,542 --> 00:44:03,582
Speaker 3: this was all the same guy. There's people sitting in

831
00:44:03,582 --> 00:44:06,182
Speaker 3: prison for his crimes and despite a full detailed confession

832
00:44:06,182 --> 00:44:09,782
Speaker 3: that it still took a while for those guys to

833
00:44:09,782 --> 00:44:12,262
Speaker 3: get out. I just's certain things about that case that

834
00:44:12,342 --> 00:44:13,062
Speaker 3: blow my mind.

835
00:44:13,862 --> 00:44:16,782
Speaker 4: Do you ever struggle to hold back your opinion in

836
00:44:16,822 --> 00:44:17,622
Speaker 4: your script writing?

837
00:44:17,782 --> 00:44:17,982
Speaker 5: Oh?

838
00:44:18,102 --> 00:44:21,662
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I have plenty of opinions on those cases,

839
00:44:22,222 --> 00:44:24,942
Speaker 3: but yeah, very mindful that that's not what case follows about.

840
00:44:25,222 --> 00:44:26,742
Speaker 5: It's going to remain neutral.

841
00:44:26,902 --> 00:44:30,222
Speaker 3: Just tell it, just tell the facts, And sometimes I

842
00:44:30,222 --> 00:44:33,662
Speaker 3: think people forget that. So like if we are very

843
00:44:33,662 --> 00:44:37,302
Speaker 3: common gripe for listeners and that we'll get emails about

844
00:44:37,422 --> 00:44:40,342
Speaker 3: is about the use of polygraph tests. So if we

845
00:44:40,502 --> 00:44:43,422
Speaker 3: mention in a case like you know, certain suspect was

846
00:44:43,422 --> 00:44:45,582
Speaker 3: brought in given a polygraph test and passed and failed

847
00:44:45,822 --> 00:44:49,702
Speaker 3: or whatever, people write in like furious, this is junk science.

848
00:44:49,742 --> 00:44:56,942
Speaker 3: It's been debunked. We're not advocating, just that's what happened. Yeah,

849
00:44:56,982 --> 00:45:01,382
Speaker 3: So even though we don't give opinions, people can sometimes

850
00:45:01,462 --> 00:45:03,942
Speaker 3: hear things and think that we are. But yeah, just

851
00:45:04,142 --> 00:45:07,822
Speaker 3: keep it neutral. This is what happened. And that's case

852
00:45:07,822 --> 00:45:08,622
Speaker 3: file basically.

853
00:45:09,542 --> 00:45:11,342
Speaker 2: And I know you said you can secret from your

854
00:45:11,342 --> 00:45:13,702
Speaker 2: friends and family, but I'm assuming they know what you do.

855
00:45:13,782 --> 00:45:15,182
Speaker 4: Now what do they think they know?

856
00:45:15,382 --> 00:45:19,542
Speaker 3: Now? Yeah, Yeah, they're pretty sort of blown away by

857
00:45:19,582 --> 00:45:22,782
Speaker 3: it as well. Some of them can't believe it. They

858
00:45:22,822 --> 00:45:23,742
Speaker 3: hear my voice a lot.

859
00:45:24,542 --> 00:45:25,182
Speaker 4: Do they listen?

860
00:45:26,502 --> 00:45:30,502
Speaker 3: Some do, Some don't, Yeah, some sort of. Some are

861
00:45:30,502 --> 00:45:32,742
Speaker 3: turned off by my voice actually because they can't take

862
00:45:32,782 --> 00:45:35,822
Speaker 3: it seriously because they know it's me, you know. Some an'

863
00:45:35,862 --> 00:45:38,422
Speaker 3: into true crime and stuff like that. Yeah, but quite

864
00:45:38,422 --> 00:45:39,822
Speaker 3: a few friends and family do listen.

865
00:45:39,942 --> 00:45:42,702
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank you for coming into the studio. I

866
00:45:42,702 --> 00:45:45,302
Speaker 2: know it was a bit of a treck for you.

867
00:45:45,662 --> 00:45:47,062
Speaker 2: That's not giving too much away, is it.

868
00:45:47,382 --> 00:45:50,622
Speaker 5: No bad traffic, very bad traffic.

869
00:45:51,062 --> 00:45:58,262
Speaker 2: Everyone can keep listening to you, but just call you Casey.

870
00:45:59,422 --> 00:46:01,742
Speaker 4: Thanks to Casey for telling us his story.

871
00:46:02,022 --> 00:46:05,022
Speaker 2: True Crime Conversations is a Mum of Meer podcast hosted

872
00:46:05,062 --> 00:46:08,302
Speaker 2: and produced by me Jemma Bath and Tarlie Blackman, with

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Speaker 2: audio design by Jacob Brown.

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Speaker 4: Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back next week

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Speaker 4: with another True Crime Conversation.