WEBVTT - 804 Days In An Iranian Prison: Kylie Moore-Gilbert [re-release] 0:00:10.405 --> 0:00:15.005 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges 0:00:15.045 --> 0:00:17.685 the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 0:00:17.765 --> 0:00:21.605 is recorded on. Hello Omeya Friedman and the team at 0:00:21.645 --> 0:00:24.685 Mamma Mea are bringing you over one hundred hours of 0:00:24.765 --> 0:00:27.365 the best of the best from across our award winning 0:00:27.405 --> 0:00:31.245 podcasts to give you the hot pod Summer of your dreams. 0:00:31.685 --> 0:00:34.565 Here at No Filter, we have selected the very best 0:00:34.605 --> 0:00:39.085 stories of human resilience, of escaping from colts and tsunamis, 0:00:39.205 --> 0:00:44.245 of surviving in prison, surviving a landslide, surviving a broken heart, 0:00:44.325 --> 0:00:47.125 and so much more. Today, I'm bringing you the story 0:00:47.165 --> 0:00:50.405 of Kylie Moore Gilbert, the Australian academic who spent eight 0:00:50.565 --> 0:00:54.525 hundred and four days in an Iranian prison. But that, 0:00:54.845 --> 0:00:57.485 believe it or not, was just the beginning of her story. 0:00:57.845 --> 0:01:01.445 In the time since we recorded this conversation, Kylie has 0:01:01.485 --> 0:01:05.605 remarried a guy called Sami Shah. He's a comedian, and 0:01:05.685 --> 0:01:08.725 she's given birth to a little girl called Leah. But 0:01:08.845 --> 0:01:10.845 the road to get to this point in her life, 0:01:10.885 --> 0:01:15.325 this happy point, has been really long and incredibly rocky. 0:01:15.885 --> 0:01:19.365 You won't believe this story that she's about to tell you. 0:01:24.445 --> 0:01:27.885 It was the twelfth of September twenty eighteen. An Australian 0:01:27.925 --> 0:01:31.485 academic Kylie more Gilbert, was making her way through Tehran's 0:01:31.605 --> 0:01:35.605 International Airport in Iran. She'd been in Iran for three 0:01:35.645 --> 0:01:39.085 weeks for a work trip. She was a lecturer at 0:01:39.285 --> 0:01:43.925 Melbourne University specializing in Islamic studies, and Kylie had been 0:01:43.965 --> 0:01:47.325 invited to the country by another university. All in all, 0:01:47.325 --> 0:01:50.325 she'd had a really great time there. But now she 0:01:50.445 --> 0:01:52.365 was on her way home, and if she was being honest, 0:01:52.845 --> 0:01:56.245 she was slightly relieved because for the past twenty four hours, 0:01:56.645 --> 0:02:00.125 Kylie couldn't help but feel like she was being watched, 0:02:00.965 --> 0:02:02.965 and she couldn't wait to get home to her husband 0:02:03.045 --> 0:02:08.685 and her parents and shake this feeling. She reached into 0:02:08.685 --> 0:02:12.005 a bag, pulled her passport out, and she was getting 0:02:12.045 --> 0:02:15.325 ready to check in at the airport after texting her 0:02:15.365 --> 0:02:18.845 parents to say I'll behind soon, when she felt a 0:02:18.885 --> 0:02:23.525 tap on the shoulder. What happened next, Well, that's for 0:02:23.605 --> 0:02:26.365 Kylie to tell you, but it would be eight one 0:02:26.445 --> 0:02:31.285 hundred and four days until she'd ever see her passport again. 0:02:34.085 --> 0:02:36.285 From Mom and Me, you're listening to No Filter, a 0:02:36.405 --> 0:02:40.045 podcast where people like Kylie tell their stories very candidly 0:02:40.645 --> 0:02:45.085 and aren't afraid to be vulnerable. My name is Miya Friedman. 0:02:46.405 --> 0:02:49.965 After being detained and then arrested at the airport, Kylie 0:02:50.005 --> 0:02:54.085 Moore Gilbert spent eight hundred and four days incarcerated in 0:02:54.205 --> 0:02:59.165 Tehran's Evin and Quai Chak prisons for espionage, a crime 0:02:59.685 --> 0:03:03.405 she never committed. During those two and a half years 0:03:03.645 --> 0:03:06.165 that she spent in prison, most of it in solitary 0:03:06.165 --> 0:03:10.765 confinement from the ages of thirty one to almost thirty four, 0:03:11.405 --> 0:03:15.605 Kylie had no bed, no mattress, no pillow, no tampons, 0:03:16.085 --> 0:03:19.285 and for some of it no lights and no windows 0:03:19.325 --> 0:03:23.325 and no toilets. Kylie was completely cut off from the 0:03:23.365 --> 0:03:27.165 outside world. She was an innocent Australian stuck in a 0:03:27.205 --> 0:03:31.765 harsh foreign prison with no way of getting home. And 0:03:31.805 --> 0:03:35.125 she joins me now for a very special episode of 0:03:35.165 --> 0:03:38.445 No Filter. Kylie, tell me a little bit about what 0:03:38.485 --> 0:03:41.605 your life was like before September twenty eighteen when you 0:03:41.645 --> 0:03:42.325 went to Iran. 0:03:42.565 --> 0:03:45.045 I think I was living a pretty regular life really. 0:03:45.405 --> 0:03:49.045 I am originally from New South Wales. I'd spent several 0:03:49.165 --> 0:03:52.165 years living overseas, mainly in the UK, but I'd moved 0:03:52.205 --> 0:03:54.765 back to Australia and moved to Melbourne. I did my 0:03:54.805 --> 0:03:57.805 PhD at Melbourne UNI, and I was at that time 0:03:57.845 --> 0:04:01.685 working then as a lecture at Melbourne UNI, lecturing in 0:04:01.765 --> 0:04:05.365 Middle East history and politics. I had recently bought a 0:04:05.405 --> 0:04:10.445 house in the far flng Dandenong Rangers, quite a commute 0:04:10.485 --> 0:04:14.005 from Melbourne, but you know, as a young person trying 0:04:14.005 --> 0:04:15.565 to get my foot on the housing ladder, that was 0:04:15.645 --> 0:04:18.965 the best I could do. I'd recently got married, so 0:04:19.005 --> 0:04:21.205 I was in my early thirties, and I guess living 0:04:21.245 --> 0:04:23.805 a pretty regular life, you know, starting off my career, 0:04:24.285 --> 0:04:27.365 starting you know, a relationship, buying a house. So I 0:04:27.445 --> 0:04:30.285 was in that kind of that place, and I thought 0:04:30.285 --> 0:04:32.285 I was going to Iran for three weeks and that 0:04:32.405 --> 0:04:34.525 my life would continue in that vein afterwards. 0:04:35.285 --> 0:04:38.725 Iran's not somewhere that most people would visit, certainly not 0:04:38.765 --> 0:04:40.885 for a holiday. But you were going for work. What 0:04:40.885 --> 0:04:41.765 were you doing there? 0:04:41.885 --> 0:04:44.885 So I'd been invited to go to Iran actually by 0:04:44.925 --> 0:04:49.205 an Iranian university and they were running a program for 0:04:49.485 --> 0:04:54.005 scholars in my field to learn more about Shia Islam 0:04:54.045 --> 0:04:56.445 in Iran, and it's the majority religion of Iran. But 0:04:56.485 --> 0:04:59.845 it's actually a minority sect within Islam more. 0:04:59.725 --> 0:05:03.325 Broadly, so I guess. 0:05:03.045 --> 0:05:07.765 It was a soft cultural outreach program being run by 0:05:07.765 --> 0:05:11.565 an Iranian university to try to link themselves more strongly 0:05:11.645 --> 0:05:15.445 to foreign universities and build research contacts, that kind of thing, 0:05:15.965 --> 0:05:18.125 And I just thought it would be really interesting. I'd 0:05:18.165 --> 0:05:21.805 always wanted to visit Iran, and my research wasn't on 0:05:21.845 --> 0:05:24.365 Iran at all. It wasn't on Shia Islam at all, 0:05:24.725 --> 0:05:28.165 but I had touched on Shia Islam in other research 0:05:28.205 --> 0:05:30.405 projects i'd done, so it was sort of relevant to me. 0:05:30.485 --> 0:05:34.045 And yeah, I just thought, why not, Like if someone 0:05:34.045 --> 0:05:36.525 invites you to go to an interesting and exotic foreign 0:05:37.005 --> 0:05:40.645 location for work, and the university approved my trip and 0:05:40.685 --> 0:05:42.965 paid for the flights and everything, so why not, Like 0:05:43.205 --> 0:05:45.765 I thought it would be a good professional opportunity. 0:05:46.285 --> 0:05:48.965 The day you would do to flay home, you're arrested 0:05:49.005 --> 0:05:51.685 at the airport. What are your memories of that day? 0:05:52.045 --> 0:05:56.845 I remember the arrest itself quite well, although the day 0:05:57.165 --> 0:06:00.085 in the lead up to the arrest, I was quite anxious, 0:06:00.485 --> 0:06:04.485 and I think I was I cottoned on. As you 0:06:04.525 --> 0:06:06.325 know from the book, I knew that something was wrong 0:06:06.365 --> 0:06:08.325 before I was arrested. I just never in a million 0:06:08.405 --> 0:06:12.685 years thought that i'd be on a flight list, banned 0:06:13.005 --> 0:06:17.685 from living the country. And I, you know, some men 0:06:17.725 --> 0:06:20.365 had come to my hotel the day before and asked 0:06:20.725 --> 0:06:23.885 about me, asked what my room number was, this kind 0:06:23.965 --> 0:06:26.405 of thing to the receptionist, and he actually told me 0:06:26.485 --> 0:06:28.485 he gave me heads up about it. So I was 0:06:28.525 --> 0:06:31.005 already nervous from that, and I thought, Okay, it's good 0:06:31.005 --> 0:06:33.085 I'm leaving the country. I don't know who these men 0:06:33.125 --> 0:06:35.605 are or what they want, but I'm flying out anyway, 0:06:35.725 --> 0:06:37.965 so as long as I avoid them until then, it'll 0:06:38.005 --> 0:06:41.165 be okay. So I was a little bit highly strung. 0:06:41.245 --> 0:06:43.405 I didn't really sleep very much that night the night 0:06:43.445 --> 0:06:47.085 before my flight, and you know, nobody came up to 0:06:47.085 --> 0:06:48.965 me during the day or anything. The men didn't come 0:06:49.005 --> 0:06:50.685 back to the hotel while I was there. And I 0:06:50.725 --> 0:06:52.885 went to the airport with all my stuff, checked my 0:06:52.885 --> 0:06:56.805 baggage in and I was walking to immigration with my 0:06:56.885 --> 0:07:00.885 passport ready to be stamped, when people who I later 0:07:00.965 --> 0:07:05.605 learned were the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps i LGC approached 0:07:05.605 --> 0:07:07.365 me and touched me on the shoulder and took me 0:07:07.405 --> 0:07:10.445 away to an interrogation room inside the air and told 0:07:10.445 --> 0:07:14.245 me I wouldn't be making my flight. So my memory 0:07:14.245 --> 0:07:15.965 in the lead up was just sort of one of 0:07:16.005 --> 0:07:20.245 anxiety and being ready to leave the country, saying okay, something, 0:07:20.245 --> 0:07:22.525 he is not right. It's good that I'm living today. 0:07:23.085 --> 0:07:25.725 But the actual moment of the arrest itself is quite 0:07:25.725 --> 0:07:29.165 sharp in my memory. And you know, I was interrogated 0:07:29.165 --> 0:07:33.045 for several hours in that airport room before being moved elsewhere, 0:07:33.165 --> 0:07:34.965 and yeah, I remember it quite vividly. 0:07:35.405 --> 0:07:37.045 Where were you taken from the airport? 0:07:37.725 --> 0:07:41.005 I was first taken to a kind of a safe house, 0:07:41.725 --> 0:07:46.885 an apartment clearly controlled or owned by the IRGC in 0:07:47.045 --> 0:07:53.405 northern Tehran. It was clearly used for filming purposes. 0:07:54.165 --> 0:07:55.445 The living room of the apartment was. 0:07:55.445 --> 0:07:59.045 Set up like a film studio, and I wasn't filmed there, 0:07:59.085 --> 0:08:02.645 so I'm not sure why. But actually I was allowed 0:08:02.645 --> 0:08:05.125 to take a nap for an hour amidst all the 0:08:05.165 --> 0:08:07.325 film paraphernalia. 0:08:06.645 --> 0:08:08.125 So I got to see it up close. 0:08:08.525 --> 0:08:11.085 So they were clearly using it, I guess, to film 0:08:11.125 --> 0:08:13.965 prisoners or false confessions or something like that. It was 0:08:14.165 --> 0:08:18.645 clearly used for interrogations in other security related purposes, and 0:08:18.685 --> 0:08:23.365 I was interrogated there overnight without you know, with one 0:08:23.365 --> 0:08:29.445 hour's sleep at dawn, and after that interrogation, I was 0:08:29.885 --> 0:08:32.205 you know, almost passed up from fatigue by that point, 0:08:32.245 --> 0:08:35.565 and I was taken to a hotel also under their 0:08:35.565 --> 0:08:39.045 control in Tehran, and I was there for one week, 0:08:39.205 --> 0:08:42.365 interrogated on a daily basis by the same group of people. 0:08:42.445 --> 0:08:46.565 What were they asking you, Kylie, Like, what was their accusation? 0:08:47.125 --> 0:08:52.005 I think they weren't clear at that point what they 0:08:52.005 --> 0:08:55.885 were wanting to accuse me of. They were interested in 0:08:55.965 --> 0:08:59.045 recruiting me as some sort of informa or spire to 0:08:59.125 --> 0:09:02.445 work for them, because they asked me about it within 0:09:02.485 --> 0:09:04.805 the first twenty four hours. They kind of informally sounded 0:09:04.845 --> 0:09:07.565 me out, which was bizarre to me because I had 0:09:07.565 --> 0:09:09.485 no idea who they were or what was going on, 0:09:09.645 --> 0:09:12.405 so I kind of didn't take it seriously. At that point, 0:09:12.925 --> 0:09:16.605 they had decided I was suspicious and they were just 0:09:16.685 --> 0:09:18.925 digging to try to figure out why and what they 0:09:18.965 --> 0:09:24.245 could get on me, so they asked me about absolutely everything. Really, 0:09:24.325 --> 0:09:26.645 it was when they got into all of my email accounts, 0:09:27.205 --> 0:09:30.125 and I initially had given them fake passwords or hadn't 0:09:30.125 --> 0:09:32.725 told them about my primary email address. But in the 0:09:32.805 --> 0:09:34.565 end they got all of it out, and I gave 0:09:34.645 --> 0:09:37.645 them the passwords because I didn't really have a. 0:09:37.685 --> 0:09:38.645 Choice at that point. 0:09:39.085 --> 0:09:42.165 And when they went through my emails, they found messages 0:09:42.205 --> 0:09:45.925 from people, They found topics or subjects or information that 0:09:45.965 --> 0:09:48.605 then they were able to expand upon in the interrogation, 0:09:49.165 --> 0:09:51.645 and it kind of snowballed from there. But you know, 0:09:51.685 --> 0:09:54.125 they initially wanted to know about my research, what I 0:09:54.205 --> 0:09:56.685 was doing in Iran, the research trip I'd taken to 0:09:56.685 --> 0:10:02.005 Bahrain from my PhD a few years earlier, visits to 0:10:02.085 --> 0:10:07.485 Israel that i'd made, my ex husband and his links 0:10:07.525 --> 0:10:11.765 to Israel, even everything even including my family history and 0:10:11.805 --> 0:10:14.325 what my great grandparents were doing and stuff like that, 0:10:14.445 --> 0:10:16.725 which I didn't know very much about at all. They 0:10:16.725 --> 0:10:19.445 were really digging around everywhere they could at that point. 0:10:19.925 --> 0:10:23.605 When you were in the hotel and previously in the 0:10:23.685 --> 0:10:26.445 safe house, and even when you were being interrogated at 0:10:26.445 --> 0:10:29.925 the airport, what did you think was going to happen? 0:10:30.405 --> 0:10:33.485 I had no conception whatsoever that I would be spect 0:10:33.525 --> 0:10:37.645 to prison. I just like I would not have believed 0:10:37.765 --> 0:10:41.485 it if had they told me, because I'd done nothing wrong. 0:10:42.205 --> 0:10:45.285 I thought, Okay, this is a misunderstanding. I will explain 0:10:45.325 --> 0:10:47.005 to them that I've done nothing wrong. I'll show them 0:10:47.005 --> 0:10:49.445 that I'm innocent. They'll interrogate me and then they'll let 0:10:49.485 --> 0:10:51.045 me go in and get back on the plane and 0:10:51.045 --> 0:10:55.205 fly back to Australia. So I cooperated them at the beginning. 0:10:55.245 --> 0:10:57.365 I tried to answer their questions because I thought, well, 0:10:57.365 --> 0:10:59.365 I've got nothing to hide, I haven't done anything. So 0:11:00.005 --> 0:11:01.765 you know that when they're finished with me, when they've 0:11:01.805 --> 0:11:03.525 asked me all the questions they have to ask, they're 0:11:03.565 --> 0:11:05.885 just going to let me go home. And they were 0:11:05.965 --> 0:11:07.765 lying to me and telling me that as well, so, 0:11:08.205 --> 0:11:11.045 especially in the hotel, led me to believe that once 0:11:11.085 --> 0:11:13.845 I'd cooperated and done everything they needed me to do, 0:11:15.045 --> 0:11:17.405 then they would actually themselves buy me a ticket and 0:11:17.445 --> 0:11:20.525 put me on a plane. So I was naive, and 0:11:20.565 --> 0:11:22.365 at the beginning that's what I thought would happen. 0:11:23.085 --> 0:11:27.125 It was just you alone in a room with up 0:11:27.165 --> 0:11:30.725 to a dozen men. Were you worried feel safety? Did 0:11:30.725 --> 0:11:32.805 they hurt you? Were you worried that you would be 0:11:33.005 --> 0:11:33.965 sexually assaulted? 0:11:34.325 --> 0:11:35.125 Yes? I was. 0:11:35.645 --> 0:11:38.405 This was one of my first fears. 0:11:38.445 --> 0:11:41.845 One of the first times that I felt physically unsafe 0:11:42.245 --> 0:11:45.645 was when there was a large scrum of men around 0:11:45.725 --> 0:11:48.605 me and I because I didn't know who they were, 0:11:48.685 --> 0:11:51.165 they wouldn't tell me who they were. They weren't wearing uniforms, 0:11:51.405 --> 0:11:51.805 they were. 0:11:51.725 --> 0:11:54.165 All playing clothes. I didn't speak fasty. 0:11:54.245 --> 0:11:56.965 They were all quite aggressive and hostile in the way 0:11:56.965 --> 0:12:01.085 they were speaking with one another. And there was somebody 0:12:01.125 --> 0:12:04.765 who was an appointed translator, but A didn't speak fluent English, 0:12:04.765 --> 0:12:08.605 but B didn't translate anything other than a direct request 0:12:08.645 --> 0:12:12.005 of me into English. So I was just bewildered by 0:12:12.005 --> 0:12:14.405 what was going on. And there were so many men, 0:12:14.525 --> 0:12:19.765 and they were quite hostile and aggressive, and I was actually, 0:12:20.285 --> 0:12:22.725 you know, when they put me in the hotel, I 0:12:22.765 --> 0:12:25.045 didn't really sleep the first night because I was afraid 0:12:25.045 --> 0:12:26.805 that one of them would come in and do something 0:12:26.805 --> 0:12:28.405 to me, or they would come back in the middle 0:12:28.405 --> 0:12:31.405 of the night, or I later learned actually they were 0:12:31.405 --> 0:12:35.725 cameras everywhere in that hotel. In my bedroom, they were 0:12:35.805 --> 0:12:40.325 hidden cameras, so they would have been watching me get undressed, 0:12:41.205 --> 0:12:43.365 this kind of thing. I hope there weren't cameras in 0:12:43.405 --> 0:12:46.725 the showers, but I wouldn't know, so, you know, I 0:12:46.885 --> 0:12:48.365 definitely had that fear. 0:12:48.525 --> 0:12:50.365 You know, these are highly highly. 0:12:50.125 --> 0:12:54.005 Religious men that see Western women uncovered. I mean I 0:12:54.085 --> 0:12:56.525 was wearing a hdehob, but not at all of the 0:12:56.605 --> 0:12:59.525 level of hitjob that they would advocate. They you know, 0:12:59.645 --> 0:13:02.285 they would have seen me as fair game maybe, and 0:13:02.765 --> 0:13:04.845 I was being in the middle, you know, being a 0:13:04.845 --> 0:13:07.285 scholar of the Middle East. I have encountered these kinds 0:13:07.325 --> 0:13:09.245 of people before, and I know that often they are 0:13:09.405 --> 0:13:10.725 quite they can be. 0:13:10.925 --> 0:13:14.805 They see Western women as objects. 0:13:14.245 --> 0:13:18.885 Of harassment sometimes, and I did feel quite afraid that 0:13:18.925 --> 0:13:20.565 they would assault me. 0:13:20.965 --> 0:13:25.925 You were taken to Evan prison and put into solitary confinement. 0:13:26.845 --> 0:13:30.045 What was it like physically when you were taken there? 0:13:30.085 --> 0:13:32.205 And did you know that's where you were going? 0:13:32.725 --> 0:13:35.405 No, I had no idea a that I was going 0:13:35.445 --> 0:13:37.325 to prison and be that happy to put in solitary 0:13:38.005 --> 0:13:41.405 I actually when they put me in the solitary cell, 0:13:41.645 --> 0:13:44.285 they'd given me the prison uniform to change into, and 0:13:44.365 --> 0:13:46.925 I just thought this was like a change room for 0:13:47.005 --> 0:13:50.165 the uniform. It was so small, like couldn't it didn't 0:13:50.205 --> 0:13:52.405 even cross my mind I would have to sleep in there. 0:13:52.965 --> 0:13:54.525 I literally thought, she's put me. 0:13:54.445 --> 0:13:56.485 In the room, close the door, I'm going to get changed, 0:13:56.525 --> 0:13:58.765 and then she's going to take me to the real cell. 0:13:59.325 --> 0:14:02.325 It was tiny, It had no window, no natural light. 0:14:02.485 --> 0:14:04.445 There was just a light on twenty four hours a 0:14:04.485 --> 0:14:07.365 day in the ceiling, a very bright led sort of thing. 0:14:08.045 --> 0:14:13.205 No furniture, no stimulation whatsoever, designed to torment you, designed 0:14:13.245 --> 0:14:17.365 to break you for the interrogation, so complete sort of 0:14:17.485 --> 0:14:21.965 sensory deprivation you could there was nothing to do whatsoever. 0:14:22.125 --> 0:14:24.525 The only object in the room was a telephone for 0:14:24.605 --> 0:14:26.925 calling the guards. But because I couldn't speak Fasting and 0:14:26.965 --> 0:14:28.645 they couldn't speak English. 0:14:28.605 --> 0:14:31.165 If I called them. 0:14:30.325 --> 0:14:32.365 Nothing would happen because I'm saying I need to go 0:14:32.405 --> 0:14:34.405 to the toilet, and they didn't understand what that meant 0:14:34.405 --> 0:14:35.765 did so they would just hang up on me. 0:14:35.885 --> 0:14:39.245 And so I was just in this horrible box. 0:14:39.285 --> 0:14:42.965 Unable to communicate with anyone and not really understanding what 0:14:43.045 --> 0:14:43.525 was going on. 0:14:43.845 --> 0:14:45.165 How did you go to the toilet? 0:14:45.885 --> 0:14:48.445 Initially I would bang on the door and they didn't 0:14:48.565 --> 0:14:50.685 like that. They didn't like any making of noise. So 0:14:50.765 --> 0:14:52.365 they would come and open the door and I would 0:14:52.445 --> 0:14:54.925 be sort of toilet toilet and they understood that, and 0:14:55.045 --> 0:14:58.405 they would take me to the bathroom only when they 0:14:58.445 --> 0:15:00.805 had time or when they felt like it. So I 0:15:00.845 --> 0:15:03.285 would be blindfolded as well when I was taken to 0:15:03.325 --> 0:15:06.325 the bathroom, so that I wouldn't see the hallways or 0:15:06.325 --> 0:15:07.485 the other rooms. 0:15:07.205 --> 0:15:07.885 In the facility. 0:15:08.845 --> 0:15:10.525 But that did you know, after a while I had 0:15:10.565 --> 0:15:14.045 seen everything. But for that first month, I was very 0:15:14.165 --> 0:15:17.525 heavily blindfolded and escorted by the arm to the toilet 0:15:17.645 --> 0:15:20.605 and given one square of toilet paper. And if I 0:15:20.645 --> 0:15:22.485 spent more than sort of thirty seconds in there, they'd 0:15:22.525 --> 0:15:24.445 bang on the door and yell at me. And you know, 0:15:24.685 --> 0:15:26.965 going to the toilet was a fraud experience in and 0:15:26.965 --> 0:15:27.525 of itself. 0:15:27.965 --> 0:15:29.285 What about getting a period? 0:15:30.005 --> 0:15:33.245 Oh my god, Miah, this was a nightmare, Kylie. 0:15:33.285 --> 0:15:36.605 I'm just like, I know, these are such like basic questions, 0:15:36.645 --> 0:15:40.285 but of course that's it's like your basic dignity was 0:15:40.325 --> 0:15:42.925 taken away. How did you cope with these very basic 0:15:43.045 --> 0:15:44.245 needs that you would have had. 0:15:44.445 --> 0:15:47.405 Honestly, every female prisoner in there, you can have an 0:15:47.445 --> 0:15:50.125 hour's long discussion about these things with them. I've heard 0:15:50.245 --> 0:15:55.525 countless horror stories, like principally, Iran doesn't believe in tampons. 0:15:56.045 --> 0:15:58.405 It's very difficult to get tampons in Iran because they 0:15:58.445 --> 0:16:02.085 believe that it takes a woman's virginity. There's all these 0:16:02.125 --> 0:16:06.805 superstitions about tampons. So the prison guards basically banned tampons 0:16:06.885 --> 0:16:10.525 because they said only an immoral woman would. 0:16:10.325 --> 0:16:11.045 Use such a thing. 0:16:11.805 --> 0:16:15.005 And it's actually a very pervasive idea even, you know, 0:16:15.125 --> 0:16:18.085 with other prisoners I discussed and many of them, especially 0:16:18.205 --> 0:16:21.405 older ones or ones who hadn't traveled abroad, believed that, 0:16:22.005 --> 0:16:25.485 you know, no man would want to marry you if 0:16:25.485 --> 0:16:28.765 you were a single woman, if you'd used tampons for 0:16:28.885 --> 0:16:29.445 your period. 0:16:30.005 --> 0:16:32.965 So they used these terrible, huge. 0:16:32.725 --> 0:16:36.085 Fat nappy pads that looked like they belonged like in 0:16:36.125 --> 0:16:38.725 continents pads for elderly people. This was all we were 0:16:38.725 --> 0:16:42.965 given for our periods, and actually I had many fights 0:16:42.965 --> 0:16:45.245 over it because they would give me one at a time. 0:16:45.645 --> 0:16:46.965 You know, they wouldn't give me a packet. 0:16:47.165 --> 0:16:50.245 They'd come and doll out one every time I and 0:16:50.325 --> 0:16:52.725 even communicating that that's what I needed when I didn't 0:16:52.725 --> 0:16:55.725 speak for you know, it was very difficult, it was, 0:16:56.725 --> 0:16:59.445 and it was a very unhygienic place. The toilets were 0:16:59.565 --> 0:17:04.845 very very dirty. There was no toilet paper to clean yourself. 0:17:04.885 --> 0:17:07.525 I wasn't allowed to shower at the beginning except once 0:17:07.565 --> 0:17:10.765 every three days, So cleaning yourself it was Yeah, it 0:17:10.805 --> 0:17:12.165 was a nightmare. I mean, I'm not going to go 0:17:12.165 --> 0:17:18.165 into the gritty details, but it just these feminine hygiene. 0:17:17.605 --> 0:17:21.485 Issues were huge until. 0:17:21.325 --> 0:17:24.285 It got marginally better when I was allowed to make 0:17:24.405 --> 0:17:27.525 certain grocery purchases once a month on a shopping list. 0:17:27.765 --> 0:17:31.005 Maybe after six months or so or seven months of 0:17:31.005 --> 0:17:33.645 my incarceration, the embassy dropped some cash off at the 0:17:33.685 --> 0:17:36.485 prison and I was able to make a shopping list 0:17:36.525 --> 0:17:39.805 that someone would go and purchase and deliver to the prison, 0:17:40.325 --> 0:17:42.965 one of the IGC guys, not the embassy, And I 0:17:43.085 --> 0:17:46.645 put on pads, like a Western brand of pads, and 0:17:46.845 --> 0:17:48.805 a few times that got delivered to me, and that 0:17:48.805 --> 0:17:52.565 that was much better. But yeah, we were banned from 0:17:52.685 --> 0:17:56.205 any cleaning products. So even with that money, we weren't 0:17:56.205 --> 0:18:00.445 able to buy bleach or bathroom spray or disinfectant because 0:18:00.445 --> 0:18:02.445 they said, oh, if you'd buy that, you'll drink it 0:18:02.485 --> 0:18:05.485 and kill yourself and so. And I used to fight 0:18:05.525 --> 0:18:07.645 them and say, well, you come and put it in there, 0:18:07.685 --> 0:18:10.125 you sprayed around in them, take it away and I 0:18:10.125 --> 0:18:10.925 won't touch it. 0:18:10.845 --> 0:18:12.965 But just spray it so I can clean the toilet 0:18:13.085 --> 0:18:18.285 or whatever. But you know, they refused, So this was 0:18:18.365 --> 0:18:19.045 really difficult. 0:18:19.125 --> 0:18:23.125 It was dealing with the sanitary situation, especially, Yeah, when 0:18:23.125 --> 0:18:23.605 you had your. 0:18:23.525 --> 0:18:28.285 Period, when you were in solitary confinement and there were 0:18:28.325 --> 0:18:32.485 just four walls, what did you literally do every day? 0:18:33.245 --> 0:18:34.325 So a lot of the. 0:18:34.285 --> 0:18:37.725 Days I was taken to interrogation and I actually wanted 0:18:37.765 --> 0:18:41.685 to go because even though that was obviously very unpleasant 0:18:42.605 --> 0:18:46.525 and a very hostile atmosphere normally, and I felt constantly 0:18:46.565 --> 0:18:49.365 under siege and under attack there in that interrogation room, 0:18:49.765 --> 0:18:52.005 it was still better than being left alone inside my 0:18:52.005 --> 0:18:53.965 own head for hours and hours in that room, in 0:18:54.005 --> 0:18:58.725 that solid confinement cell. And toward the end of my interrogations, 0:18:58.765 --> 0:19:02.085 they came less and less frequently, and every weekend there'd 0:19:02.165 --> 0:19:03.925 be two or three days where I would be just 0:19:04.045 --> 0:19:06.085 on my own and you wouldn't know when they're coming, 0:19:06.125 --> 0:19:08.525 so you'd be anticipating that the interrogators might come for 0:19:08.605 --> 0:19:11.445 you every day, and some days they did, some days 0:19:11.485 --> 0:19:11.925 they didn't. 0:19:12.445 --> 0:19:13.485 So when I was left on. 0:19:13.405 --> 0:19:16.765 My own for those days on end where I didn't 0:19:16.805 --> 0:19:20.805 go anywhere, it was basically like psychological torture, you know, 0:19:21.125 --> 0:19:23.365 I was The first week was the worst until I 0:19:23.485 --> 0:19:25.685 developed psychological coping mechanisms. 0:19:26.085 --> 0:19:27.725 But I was bouncing off the walls. 0:19:27.765 --> 0:19:30.485 My brain was thinking at a million miles an hour 0:19:30.805 --> 0:19:34.765 over all sorts of subjects. Rapped by guilt, rapped by regret. 0:19:34.925 --> 0:19:36.645 I should have done this differently, I should have done 0:19:36.685 --> 0:19:41.445 that differently. Fear about the future, anxiety, worry, it was 0:19:41.525 --> 0:19:44.405 all rolling through my brain at an intense speed. And 0:19:45.245 --> 0:19:48.965 you know, I would try and play games with myself. 0:19:49.525 --> 0:19:53.045 I would try and memorize or recite things that I 0:19:53.085 --> 0:19:56.285 thought I could memorize, try to remember the lyrics of songs, 0:19:56.885 --> 0:20:01.245 try to remember my times tables. But you know, it 0:20:01.285 --> 0:20:03.885 was really really hard, and a lot of my memories 0:20:04.085 --> 0:20:07.005 sort of blanked out for like some of that period, 0:20:07.205 --> 0:20:10.765 I think from the trauma of all because being left 0:20:10.765 --> 0:20:14.485 alone inside your own head with zero stimulation whatsoever and. 0:20:14.405 --> 0:20:18.565 No natural light, no control. 0:20:18.725 --> 0:20:21.085 I didn't even have control over my own toothbrush. I 0:20:21.125 --> 0:20:22.965 didn't even have control over whether I could take a 0:20:23.045 --> 0:20:24.925 shower or go to the toilet. I had control over 0:20:25.005 --> 0:20:29.165 nothing whatsoever. It's designed to break you, and it really 0:20:29.205 --> 0:20:32.445 is very effective. It really really does make you suffer 0:20:32.605 --> 0:20:33.165 so much. 0:20:33.805 --> 0:20:37.805 You mentioned psychological coping mechanisms that you developed. 0:20:37.805 --> 0:20:42.925 What were they somehow my brain managed to slow itself down, 0:20:44.165 --> 0:20:47.765 not for the first couple of weeks, but over time, slowly. 0:20:47.925 --> 0:20:51.365 After about the two week mark, I kind of started 0:20:51.365 --> 0:20:54.965 to inhabit this like send you asleep semi awake state, 0:20:55.725 --> 0:21:00.485 not really meditation. But it wasn't a deliberate thing I 0:21:00.525 --> 0:21:03.165 was trying to do, Like I'm very bad at meditation, 0:21:03.245 --> 0:21:06.645 but a few times I tried to meditate, and you know, 0:21:06.685 --> 0:21:08.125 I just couldn't turn off my brain. 0:21:08.245 --> 0:21:09.925 But after about. 0:21:09.765 --> 0:21:13.125