Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mama Mia out Loud and to our Friday's show where
Speaker 2: we take a bit of a break from the news
Speaker 2: cycle and breath out Today. Friends, is Friday, the seventh
Speaker 2: of June. I'm Holly Wainwright, And if you missed Monday's show,
Speaker 2: you'll miss us talking about why it really is finally
Speaker 2: time to cancel Brad Pitt And this one got quite
Speaker 2: a lot of opinions going. Should we raise the age
Speaker 2: of social media access to sixty?
Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman And on Wednesday we talked about rodent
Speaker 1: boyfriends and also the difference between female and male billionaires,
Speaker 1: and we also had a bit of a dispute about that.
Speaker 1: Listen to those episodes via a link in our show notes.
Speaker 3: And I'm Burnham. I'm filling in for Jesse again today.
Speaker 3: You can always hear me on this Bill Entertainment Daily pickhause.
Speaker 2: An on today's show, is Everybody Beautiful? A mass experiment
Speaker 2: in the MoMA Mea office certainly suggests that they don't
Speaker 2: feel it. Also thanks to watch and read and do
Speaker 2: this weekend, which include a very sweary puppet, a viral book,
Speaker 2: and a self helpy app. And Best and Worse, which
Speaker 2: include a very embarrassing partner wagging work and MEA's new boss,
Speaker 2: but first, Mia Friedman.
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, Independent MPs want to fine
Speaker 1: businesses twenty five thousand dollars if they don't accept cash
Speaker 1: from their customers in a bid to stop the move
Speaker 1: to going fully cashless. Except they're not going to pay
Speaker 1: that twenty five thousand dollar fine in cash would be
Speaker 1: my bet. Former National ZMP Andrew g on Monday introduced
Speaker 1: a private member's bill that would require businesses to offer
Speaker 1: cash as a form of payment. Some starts to make
Speaker 1: you feel smart. In two thousand and seven, about seventy
Speaker 1: percent of all trans actions were made with cash, but
Speaker 1: this is now fallen to thirteen percent. Wow.
Speaker 2: So thirteen percent of anything you buy or pay for
Speaker 2: is cash.
Speaker 1: Yeow. So banks and large retailers have been given until
Speaker 1: October by the Competition Watchdog to find a way to
Speaker 1: ensure the continued movement of cash around the country. I
Speaker 1: don't know why they need to, Like, can't you just
Speaker 1: get money out of an ATM, you don't need a
Speaker 1: credit card necessarily. Why do we need cash? Apart from
Speaker 1: buskers who I honestly feel so upset for the.
Speaker 3: Time of them have their tap on little thing.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, that's true, some of them do have any
Speaker 1: I mean even at lemonade stands.
Speaker 2: Apparently, why do we need cash? Like, what's the reason
Speaker 2: for this? Why do they want it?
Speaker 1: The arguments in favor of having cash are that it
Speaker 1: is often favored by older people, people who don't want
Speaker 1: to keep their money in banks. They might want to
Speaker 1: keep it I don't know, under their bed or in
Speaker 1: their pocket. And also I can't remember the third thing.
Speaker 2: But no, it's about privacy. So some people don't feel
Speaker 2: comfortable with the level of surveillance that comes with paying
Speaker 2: for everything. To this day, I'm not saying that's true, but
Speaker 2: it's like, if you pay for everything with a card,
Speaker 2: then everything you do can be tracked, right, Whereas if
Speaker 2: you get money out of the bank and then you
Speaker 2: just spend that money, it can't be traced. That's the
Speaker 2: whole point of cash, and that's why that's used in
Speaker 2: more sinister ways. But like a lot of people are
Speaker 2: uncomfortable with the level of surveillance that comes with cash. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And the other reason is rural areas, places that don't
Speaker 2: always have such stable Internet connections all of that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. They want people to still be able to
Speaker 2: operate in cash. It's very true.
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw what happened when there was optist
Speaker 1: blackout last year and people couldn't buy their coffee. It
Speaker 1: was devastating. No, but people often don't have cash. The
Speaker 1: only time I use cash now, I've realized, is when
Speaker 1: I go to my alterationist because she doesn't accept cards
Speaker 1: or any kind of FPOs, which is a nightmare. So
Speaker 1: literally the only time I go to the bank is
Speaker 1: when I have to get my clothes altered.
Speaker 2: I live in the regions obviously, and our local service
Speaker 2: station servo. I remember once their like digital stuff was
Speaker 2: down and I didn't have cash, so I couldn't get
Speaker 2: any petrol, and she said, always have a fifty in
Speaker 2: your wallet because and she was saying that joining the
Speaker 2: bushfires in our neighborhood, which was very badly affected by
Speaker 2: that terrible summer of bushfires, and all the services went out,
Speaker 2: all the internet services went out, and so many people
Speaker 2: who were trying to get away, would go to the
Speaker 2: servo wanted petrol, but they couldn't pay for it, and
Speaker 2: so she was saying, you know, they were asking can
Speaker 2: I just have it for free? And she was like, well,
Speaker 2: I can't just give you all that.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting and they say them so in case
Speaker 1: of emergency. Future terrorism will be about internet going down
Speaker 1: and then we won't be able to pay for anything.
Speaker 1: Do you even know what cash is?
Speaker 2: Not?
Speaker 3: Really? I haven't owned a wallet in probably ten years.
Speaker 3: I have never used cash. I remember one time, I
Speaker 3: think it was last year, where my card expired so
Speaker 3: it wasn't working, and I walked over to my mum's
Speaker 3: work because I was like, you need to give me
Speaker 3: your card and she was like, why didn't you just
Speaker 3: use cash? And I'm like, I don't know how to
Speaker 3: do that, Like I physically don't know who will take it,
Speaker 3: because I've never seen anyone take cash. Like I don't
Speaker 3: like own cash. I don't have any cash on me ever.
Speaker 2: I got really really irritated by my coworkers this week.
Speaker 2: Oh God, that's it. That's the segment. That's all I've
Speaker 2: got today, that's all we've got time for today. It
Speaker 2: was about a story that ran on Mama Mia written
Speaker 2: by Jemma Bath, who you might have heard on Monday's
Speaker 2: show filling in for our Jesse, and it was about
Speaker 2: something quite specific that I think is actually about something
Speaker 2: much broader. The story that Jemma wrote was called Dan
Speaker 2: photographed sixty women in the Mama Mea office. We all
Speaker 2: said the same thing, and it was about the day
Speaker 2: or days as it turned out, that all of Mamma
Speaker 2: MIA's editorial team got their pictures taken. It was for
Speaker 2: new headshots. And as I'm sure you can understand from
Speaker 2: the term headshots, they're like the pictures that get taken
Speaker 2: that then go at the top of all the little
Speaker 2: articles so you can see the people who wrote them.
Speaker 2: They might be used in professional decks on LinkedIn their
Speaker 2: life crusted. Yes you look serious, So there you're like
Speaker 2: professional headshots. And although I know that not every body's
Speaker 2: job requires them to have their picture taken like that,
Speaker 2: think about sort of formal photograph situations like maybe you're
Speaker 2: in a wedding party, maybe you're at somebody's birthday, maybe
Speaker 2: it's the girl's weekend away.
Speaker 1: Going on a dating app.
Speaker 2: Going on a dating app, you need the yeah, all
Speaker 2: of those kind of things, think about all of those times.
Speaker 2: Here's Jem talking about the article.
Speaker 4: The idea for this article was sparked by my own
Speaker 4: headshot session with Dan, actually, because while I was in
Speaker 4: the room with him, he was directing me to, you know,
Speaker 4: lift my chin and look this way, and I made
Speaker 4: a comment like off the calf of oh yes, because
Speaker 4: I don't want to double chin, and he kind of
Speaker 4: sighed and was like, oh, yeah, I've heard that one before.
Speaker 4: And when I prompted him, he said most of the
Speaker 4: people were most of the women that had come into
Speaker 4: that room today had also said that remark, and we'd
Speaker 4: all also talked about our wrinkles and our hair sitting
Speaker 4: the wrong way. And I did a bit of an
Speaker 4: impromptu interview with him while getting my photo taken, and
Speaker 4: I realized just how much we all bloody hate ourselves
Speaker 4: or how we look at least, and the men in
Speaker 4: our office, apparently we're in and out of that photo
Speaker 4: shoot in two minutes, didn't care at all about the photos,
Speaker 4: barely looked at them. And then the women on average
Speaker 4: were getting sixty to eighty shots per person. And then
Speaker 4: the number one thing we would all say to Dan,
Speaker 4: was it's not you, it's me. You know that trope
Speaker 4: that we're all, you know, people pleasers, and it's not
Speaker 4: Dan's fault. We are all just not good enough. I
Speaker 4: include myself in that, because when Dan showed me the photos,
Speaker 4: all I could see was the bad stuff. I looked
Speaker 4: a little bit fatter, a little bit rinklier than I felt,
Speaker 4: and I thought my smile was too big. And then
Speaker 4: when I left the room, I started observing my colleagues
Speaker 4: and there were hair straighteners out all over the office.
Speaker 4: Everyone was touching up full faces of makeup that they
Speaker 4: don't usually have. We're all spending ages kind of fixing.
Speaker 2: Ourselves for our turn.
Speaker 4: So I knew that there was a story in it,
Speaker 4: but I didn't realize how hard it was going to
Speaker 4: be to actually get people to participate. No one wanted
Speaker 4: to share their headshot with me. I had to basically
Speaker 4: corner people in the office. They all had horrible things
Speaker 4: to say about themselves, really mean things, and this from
Speaker 4: people that I perceived to be really confident and really
Speaker 4: outwardly happy in their own skin. I had positive comments
Speaker 4: from probably two people really who enjoyed the experience, But
Speaker 4: then I had other colleagues saying things like their photos
Speaker 4: were never going to see the light of day, another
Speaker 4: one who said that they had a hair appointment especially
Speaker 4: for it, but they were just trying to pick the
Speaker 4: least bad shot. I'd love to say that there was
Speaker 4: a silver lining good ending to this story, but basically
Speaker 4: my findings were that even in twenty twenty four, we
Speaker 4: are picking apart our own appearances in agonizing detail, and
Speaker 4: the beauty tropes that we've been marinating in have just
Speaker 4: as much of a stranglehold on us as ever. So
Speaker 4: a bit of a downer for your Friday, But after
Speaker 4: writing this story, I'm trying to be a bit kinder
Speaker 4: to myself because I looked at my colleagues headshots and
Speaker 4: I thought they were all beautiful. So hopefully calling all
Speaker 4: of this out will make us realize what we're doing
Speaker 4: and we can all just be a little bit better,
Speaker 4: because we can't be this hung up on a headshot.
Speaker 2: And my first I heard on the grapevine you were
Speaker 2: one of the most time maintenance of all of the headshotters.
Speaker 2: Tell me what happened with you in these photos.
Speaker 3: I love getting my photo taken, Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3: I love the whole experience of it.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 3: Firstly, I'm not one of those people who's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I just like threw something on and went to out
Speaker 3: my friend. I put like effort in. I put my
Speaker 3: makeup on, did my hair, and chose my outfit. Even
Speaker 3: though my shirt had a hole in it was fine.
Speaker 3: I just loved the experience of just like being there,
Speaker 3: being in front of the camera doing like a little
Speaker 3: quirky thing.
Speaker 2: I just love it.
Speaker 3: And I think it's because I don't get it in
Speaker 3: my everyday life as much as much as other people.
Speaker 3: And I think it all boils down to not having
Speaker 3: a partner, Like there's no one in my life who
Speaker 3: would just candidly ever take a photo of me.
Speaker 2: So why did you have to have two photo shoots
Speaker 2: for this?
Speaker 3: Because I loved it so much.
Speaker 2: Oh it wasn't because you hated your picture.
Speaker 3: And there was a deeper meaning. So from since I
Speaker 3: was younger, I don't like seeing my photos through someone
Speaker 3: else's lens. So for me, it's not really the act
Speaker 3: of taking the photo, it's the editing that happens after it.
Speaker 3: I remember when I was around sixteen, I went to
Speaker 3: one of my friend's birthday parties, and it was like
Speaker 3: one of those big sixteen. She had a professional photographer
Speaker 3: and I saw the photos on the camera and then
Speaker 3: she posted them all on her Facebook page and tagged
Speaker 3: us all in it, and they were the edited versions.
Speaker 3: And I saw that my skin was lightened in the
Speaker 3: edited versions. What And I immediately went, I look so good,
Speaker 3: Like I look really good. And from then all my
Speaker 3: Instagram photos, i'd always lighten my skin a little bit
Speaker 3: when I edit it. And then I went through this
Speaker 3: whole thing, I was like, this is a bit fucked
Speaker 3: up what I'm doing. So now I always think, like,
Speaker 3: I just don't like someone editing my own photo. So
Speaker 3: that's where I whenever to play.
Speaker 2: So do you mean like, because the way that this
Speaker 2: works is the obvios. The photographer in the room takes
Speaker 2: like lots of pictures then whittles them down to like
Speaker 2: a few pictures. I mean, I don't know if this
Speaker 2: is exactly how this works, but it's often how it works.
Speaker 2: And then you go, I like that one, not that one.
Speaker 2: You're like, you want to edit them down?
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, I'll just like save the raw version. I
Speaker 3: don't like my photos to be edited, right.
Speaker 1: Like you mean retouched.
Speaker 3: That's what I edited, retouched like brighton. I don't like
Speaker 3: any like hues like.
Speaker 2: That, and that's why.
Speaker 3: That's the reason why otherwise a whole actual taking photo
Speaker 3: experiences I love.
Speaker 2: So you were so you got your picture taken twice
Speaker 2: because you liked it so much and you like the
Speaker 2: picture that you've got in.
Speaker 3: The end, Yeah, I love the picture, but I also
Speaker 3: wanted something different because I was like, this is a
Speaker 3: fun experience. I'll do it again, and I got the
Speaker 3: girls in the office to do my makeup, hairto.
Speaker 1: You're a freak, I say that with all my love. No,
Speaker 1: you're an outlier, is what I mean. Because that's unusual. Right,
Speaker 1: Most people hate getting their photo taken, including me. When
Speaker 1: I was listening to Jemma talk about it and reading
Speaker 1: her article, I was like, why is this a surprise?
Speaker 1: She nailed it. And when I was thinking about why
Speaker 1: it is, it's because having your photo taken is a
Speaker 1: very vulnerable moment, because you are submitting, consciously or unconsciously
Speaker 1: to measuring yourself next to the beauty standard that there
Speaker 1: is for women. And guess what, not a single one
Speaker 1: of us, even Margo Robbie, matches up to that standard
Speaker 1: meets that standard. That's because that standard is so unrealistic,
Speaker 1: it's so face tuned, it's so you know, retouched, whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it, it actually isn't a human person.
Speaker 1: So I think that there is a vulnerability in that,
Speaker 1: and there's also a you know you're going to fail
Speaker 1: going in like it's a test that you cannot win.
Speaker 2: Do you really think that all of us, all ages,
Speaker 2: shape sizes, all the different things, we are all trying
Speaker 2: to be Margo Robbie in her head?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I don't mean Margaret. I mean that even
Speaker 1: Margot Robbie feels that way. I don't mean that we're
Speaker 1: all trying to look like Margot Robbie.
Speaker 2: But I mean that when I say that, I mean,
Speaker 2: well that beautiful.
Speaker 1: We're all trying to look like a beauty standard that
Speaker 1: is overwhelmingly light skinned, thin, young, flawless, big lips, all
Speaker 1: these different features, trying to look like that. But then,
Speaker 1: why don't you like pictures of yourself? I don't mean
Speaker 1: every single one of those things, But for you, what
Speaker 1: do you see when you look at a picture of yourself?
Speaker 1: Did you enjoy having your photo taken?
Speaker 3: I don't love.
Speaker 2: Having my photo taken, although I don't hate it because
Speaker 2: it's part of my job and it happens a lot, right,
Speaker 2: which I know it sounds like a bit wanky, but
Speaker 2: it's true. Like we've got our pictures taken for the show,
Speaker 2: we get our pictures taken for a portrait, we get
Speaker 2: our pictures taken to promote the show on social every day.
Speaker 2: So I have become much less precious about it. I
Speaker 2: used to be spos They much more precious about it.
Speaker 2: Because one of the reasons why I found this really
Speaker 2: interesting that Jemma found that all these women hated looking
Speaker 2: at pictures of themselves and thought they looked awful is
Speaker 2: I was surprised for the same reason that she was.
Speaker 2: I know, you say you're not, and I'm sure you're right,
Speaker 2: because to my mind, we've lived for however long now
Speaker 2: in this much more body confident culture. So all these young,
Speaker 2: mostly young women who are out there, they're mostly younger
Speaker 2: millennials or Gen Z's, they are much more visible than
Speaker 2: we ever were at that age because they take pictures
Speaker 2: of themselves endlessly. Everything you do, you're having your picture taken.
Speaker 1: Right, Why do they then do with those people exactly
Speaker 1: what I.
Speaker 2: Mean well, but no they don't. These girls don't do
Speaker 2: that at all, but they do get editorial approval of
Speaker 2: those pictures, do you know what I mean? Like selfie
Speaker 2: culture and growing up in selfie culture means that you
Speaker 2: get to choose which pictures you put up, right, So
Speaker 2: that's the difference. But they are much more photographed and
Speaker 2: visible than we ever were growing up. They're much more
Speaker 2: familiar with their faces, their angles, what they like, what
Speaker 2: they don't like, and so I find that really interesting
Speaker 2: because I thought that they would be much more comfortable
Speaker 2: with the process.
Speaker 1: When someone takes your picture, it's not in your control.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that m says, Like I often
Speaker 1: look at the pictures that women I know post of themselves,
Speaker 1: and to me, what they think reflects them or what
Speaker 1: they want to reflect them doesn't look to me like
Speaker 1: the them that I know. And I've heard other people
Speaker 1: say that about me. Sometimes the way you want to
Speaker 1: be perceived or the way you think you look is
Speaker 1: different to how other people see you. But to me,
Speaker 1: what you said just then whole is at the crux
Speaker 1: of this, because I think it is a very specific
Speaker 1: trap that we are now in. We're being punished twice
Speaker 1: in many ways because the whole body positivity movement and
Speaker 1: this idea of everybody is beautiful and beauty. You know,
Speaker 1: you're beautiful and everybody's beautiful, and you're beautiful without makeup,
Speaker 1: and you're beautiful when you're old. And that scene in
Speaker 1: the Barbie movie where Mico Robbie of all people, looks
Speaker 1: at that old lady at the bus stop and goes,
Speaker 1: you're so beautiful.
Speaker 2: I know it. That's bullshit.
Speaker 1: No, it's not bullshit. Do you know why it's bullshit?
Speaker 1: Because it is gaslighting us that we live, we marinate
Speaker 1: in a sea of beauty standards for women, and that
Speaker 1: to say that that's not the case is deliver us.
Speaker 3: But we're also like posting these same photos on our Instagram.
Speaker 3: So you're saying, like the photos that you post of
Speaker 3: yourself on your Instagram, you don't think any of them
Speaker 3: you look really good in.
Speaker 1: Show me the proof that everybody's beautiful. Show me how
Speaker 1: society confirms that.
Speaker 2: What that idea is that everybody's beautiful as bullshit. Is
Speaker 2: buying into something that's being pushed on us about what
Speaker 2: beauty is, and what we all actually know is that
Speaker 2: everybody is beautiful, Like you know very well that when
Speaker 2: you love someone and you like someone, they are more
Speaker 2: beautiful to you. What the whole point of that thing
Speaker 2: of Barbie looking at the older lady with the wrinkles
Speaker 2: and going you're beautiful is deliberately subversive because they are
Speaker 2: like your grandparent with their wrinkly skin and their creepy hands,
Speaker 2: is beautiful to you because you know who they are.
Speaker 2: So I think if we're pushing back on the everyone
Speaker 2: is beautiful idea, then we're buying into the narrow beauty
Speaker 2: standard that only belongs to point zero nine of the population.
Speaker 1: I just feel like it's tricking us. And I agree
Speaker 1: with what you're saying, like people who society doesn't confirm
Speaker 1: is a beautiful a beautiful to me. But then what
Speaker 1: does that mean as the person who your child might
Speaker 1: think is beautiful, or your partner or your friend or
Speaker 1: your dog. If every message that you get from the
Speaker 1: rest of society in every waking moment of your life
Speaker 1: is that you are not beautiful because you do not
Speaker 1: conform to this beauty standard that is impossible for any
Speaker 1: woman to conform to you, right, it then just means
Speaker 1: that you're failing twice because you feel bad about it
Speaker 1: that you're not meeting the beauty standard, and then you're
Speaker 1: told no, but actually you are beautiful. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: but why should I believe you? How can I believe
Speaker 1: you that I'm beautiful?
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that deep.
Speaker 3: I honestly think, like, sometimes I just feel really good,
Speaker 3: so I want to post a photo on Instagram so
Speaker 3: my ex boyfriend will see it sesars for the every
Speaker 3: day for the rest of his life. I honestly think
Speaker 3: I look at photos of myself on my Instagram more
Speaker 3: than any other person because I just want to see
Speaker 3: it from other people's perspective. I'm like, yep, that personal
Speaker 3: think I look good. Yep, that personal think.
Speaker 2: I look good.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's that deep of me going beautiful
Speaker 3: not beautiful.
Speaker 2: So you really only consider what you look like through
Speaker 2: the lens of what other people think you look like.
Speaker 3: Yeah on Instagram. Yeah, But if I'm taking like a
Speaker 3: professional shot and I'm posting it myself, sometimes I'm like, no,
Speaker 3: I want to look like how I feel like. I
Speaker 3: want people to perceive me.
Speaker 1: But when you look in the mirror, do you go
Speaker 1: I'm beautiful? No?
Speaker 2: Who does that That's what I mean.
Speaker 1: If the body positivity movement, of which I'm a big
Speaker 1: supporter and proponent, but if it's been so effective and
Speaker 1: done so much for women, why are we all having
Speaker 1: more surgery than we all ever have? Why we face
Speaker 1: tuning and filtering and doing all of those things for
Speaker 1: our photos.
Speaker 3: Why just because I see myself and I'm not saying
Speaker 3: I'm beautiful doesn't mean I'm also saying I'm ugly. I'm
Speaker 3: just like seeing myself and I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, okay, you're neutral.
Speaker 3: I'm neutral. It's like I'm just posting photos and I
Speaker 3: enjoy my life.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what, how where we should be. Because the
Speaker 2: reason that, no, she's not that unusual. I think that,
Speaker 2: Like the reason why that article irritated me so much
Speaker 2: was the notion that all these smart young women that
Speaker 2: I work with, not just young women, all these smart
Speaker 2: women that I work with are wasting so much and like,
Speaker 2: put your makeup on, walk in, smile at the camera,
Speaker 2: and walk sucking.
Speaker 3: Out and get on the way.
Speaker 1: Right. Don't blame the player, blame the game. But you're
Speaker 1: you're making the political personal. You're saying all you need
Speaker 1: to do is stop wasting time. Instead of going hang
Speaker 1: on the systems.
Speaker 2: How do we change the system. The way we change
Speaker 2: the system is to stop buying into the idea that
Speaker 2: there's only this tiny, tiny little square of beauty and
Speaker 2: all the rest of us live outside it. The way
Speaker 2: to change the system is to say, sorry, there's all
Speaker 2: kinds of beautiful, and you might be selling us one
Speaker 2: theory about it, and we'll in twit to a point.
Speaker 2: We are all beautiful, and all those women are and
Speaker 2: I mean you can go and put your lippy on
Speaker 2: and everything. I'm not suggesting that you just roll in
Speaker 2: out of bed, because we're all trying to project an
Speaker 2: image of ourselves, particularly in a professional situation, that we're
Speaker 2: comfortable with. But the idea that it's such an awful, agonizing,
Speaker 2: painful process, I'm guilty of it too, for sure. But
Speaker 2: it's that thing of every time I'm with my friends
Speaker 2: and we have our picture taken because it's somebody's fiftieth
Speaker 2: or it's somebody's you know, whatever event, someone will always
Speaker 2: say I don't want to go on the end. I
Speaker 2: don't want people to see my arm. I don't want
Speaker 2: people to see my stomach. I don't want people to
Speaker 2: have my thing, and we all, as Jemma says in
Speaker 2: this story, are in such a cycle of self hatred.
Speaker 2: The answer to it is not to let go of
Speaker 2: the idea of beautiful. The answer to it is to
Speaker 2: expand the idea of beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's time for some recommendations and things to get stuck
Speaker 1: into on the weekend. I'm going to go first because
Speaker 1: I haven't spoken enough today. You can hear my voices
Speaker 1: giving out.
Speaker 3: I love a viral book.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get me to read a novel, but
Speaker 1: if someone says everybody's talking about it, then I will.
Speaker 2: It's a book called All Fours.
Speaker 1: By Miranda July. I've heard of her, but I've not
Speaker 1: read her work before. She's a New York Times bestselling author,
Speaker 1: and she's written other books called The First Bad Man
Speaker 1: is apparently her most favorite one. But it is about
Speaker 1: a woman up ending her life, a woman in midlife.
Speaker 1: She's a semi famous artist. You never really get to
Speaker 1: the bottom of what she's famous for. But she announces
Speaker 1: her plan to drive cross country from LA to New
Speaker 1: York for work and just to see some friends. And
Speaker 1: then she decides to just exit the freeway and she
Speaker 1: just stays where she is for two weeks and what
Speaker 1: happens to her there and then what happens afterwards. It's
Speaker 1: about perimenopause, it's about sex, it's about relationships, it's about
Speaker 1: a particular time in life. It is so so good.
Speaker 2: Great, what's your echo?
Speaker 3: I am recommending an app it's called DAILI oh that
Speaker 3: I want you both to download after this episode. It's
Speaker 3: a self care app. So it's basically.
Speaker 1: About us downloaded after being recommended on this podcast. She's
Speaker 1: none of them.
Speaker 2: I think that thinks we need help.
Speaker 3: You need you need this app. It's basically just like
Speaker 3: a kind of productivity, but it's also a life tracker app.
Speaker 3: I use it and it's helped my depression so much.
Speaker 3: It's literally like a diary entry, so he says, as
Speaker 3: a diary entry used to track my sleep, my menstrual cycle.
Speaker 3: You put in your daily habit and you tick them
Speaker 3: off as you go every day, and sometimes when it
Speaker 3: gets really bad, it's like really specific, like have you
Speaker 3: showered today? Literally, and then you can also put in
Speaker 3: how well you slept last night, what time you went
Speaker 3: to bed, and then would help. It helps because it
Speaker 3: helps you formulate patterns of behavior and it gives you
Speaker 3: the statistics. So for example, last night, I slept terribly,
Speaker 3: and I put in my app I step terribly, and
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, just sing, you also slept really badly
Speaker 3: on this day and this day, and then the next
Speaker 3: day you're also really anxious. So I went into my
Speaker 3: calendar and I was like, what happened on these days?
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, I was feeling in for
Speaker 3: out loud. So it helps you track all those things.
Speaker 3: I know that two days before my period. For the
Speaker 3: past six months, I'm always really angry as a base
Speaker 3: level of motion. So it kind of helps you, like
Speaker 3: see that beforehand. So when you're feeling that, you kind
Speaker 3: of know and put like words to it. So good
Speaker 3: Daleio you downloaded on Apple or Google Play if you
Speaker 3: have an Android.
Speaker 2: Somebody is tracking that shit, I know, but you need.
Speaker 1: People put all that shit on their Instagram. Anyway, she
Speaker 1: just said it on a podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm recommending a show on Netflix called Eric. Now, if
Speaker 2: Jesse was here, she might say to me, is this
Speaker 2: one of your ship recommendations? And look, it's not, but
Speaker 2: it won't be for everybody.
Speaker 3: Because it's dark.
Speaker 2: Yes, it has Benedict cumberbatchanette who obviously is fantastic. It
Speaker 2: is dark, though right it won't be for everybody. What
Speaker 2: it's about is it's a drama, and it's about a
Speaker 2: couple who are played by Benedict Comberbatch and Gabby Hoffman,
Speaker 2: and they are both fantastic who are kind of at
Speaker 2: each other. It's the eighties. They're living in New York.
Speaker 2: He is the creator and head puppeteer on a show
Speaker 2: that's basically Sesame Street. It's not that it's called Good
Speaker 2: Morning Sunshine or Hello Sunshine or something, so you see
Speaker 2: behind the scenes of how that works. But when he
Speaker 2: goes home, him and his wife argue like cat and dog.
Speaker 2: He drinks a lot, et cetera. One day, their little
Speaker 2: boy goes missing on the way to school, and it's
Speaker 2: about what happens after that.
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 2: Edgars trimes, I'm working up a new puppet.
Speaker 3: But we can get him on the show that a
Speaker 3: girl will see.
Speaker 1: You'll know how much we wanted to come home really crazy.
Speaker 3: He's the monster that every child wants when they are
Speaker 3: lost and need to be found.
Speaker 1: This is Abig's idea.
Speaker 2: I want to make it real. I'm out yeah, you
Speaker 2: would definitely be out. But it's amazing because what happens is,
Speaker 2: so the little boy used to go to work with
Speaker 2: his dad and he had started sketching and drawing his
Speaker 2: own puppet that he was going to be on this show.
Speaker 2: And Cumberbatch's character starts losing it, obviously because he's in
Speaker 2: a state about trying to find his son and decides
Speaker 2: he's got to create this poppet and put it on
Speaker 2: the show and it will bring his son home. But
Speaker 2: because at the same time he's having a mental breakdown
Speaker 2: because his son's missing and he's drinking straight vodka all day,
Speaker 2: this puppet kind of comes to life and appears to him.
Speaker 2: So it's really weird. It's really interesting. It's one of
Speaker 2: the most original shows I've seen. Along the side, you've
Speaker 2: got the investigation of, obviously, what happens to the Sun.
Speaker 2: It's very like New York eighties. Brent and I just
Speaker 2: kept saying to each other that nobody seems very bothered
Speaker 2: that this kid's gone missing. The parents do, obviously, but
Speaker 2: it's like there was a period in American history where
Speaker 2: kids were on the side of milk cartons and the
Speaker 2: missing kids, whether it was as common as the media
Speaker 2: reported it to be or not is a bit disp
Speaker 2: you did, but it was a think and it's set
Speaker 2: in that time and it's just a really original, weird,
Speaker 2: button pushing show. Come for Batch is amazing. Gabby Hoffman
Speaker 2: is amazing.
Speaker 1: Like her she's I remember her from Transparent if you were.
Speaker 1: Do you know this is number one in Netflix and
Speaker 1: lots of countries around the world and it is actually
Speaker 1: written by Abby Morgan who wrote The Split, and I'm
Speaker 1: a massive fan of hers.
Speaker 2: Really original, just very different, very so we're really enjoying it.
Speaker 2: But as I say, it might give you a nightmas.
Speaker 3: Out loud as.
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to us every day of
Speaker 1: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Mum and mea subscriber.
Speaker 1: Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and
Speaker 1: support us. And a big thank you to all our
Speaker 1: current subscribers.
Speaker 3: It is time for best and Worst of the week, miya.
Speaker 1: So my worst of the week is something that happened
Speaker 1: first on Sex and the City or was made famous
Speaker 1: and just like that. Actually the last season, do you
Speaker 1: remember when Charlotte had a flash period when she was
Speaker 1: wearing the white Oh.
Speaker 2: Yes, I had a bloody flashing period.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm meant to be in menopause. I got
Speaker 1: home and had blood all down the back of.
Speaker 3: My trucks, and I'm always like, don't people feel it?
Speaker 1: I don't know why I didn't feel it and no
Speaker 1: one said anything. And I'm now so embarrassed because I
Speaker 1: was like walking around.
Speaker 2: I would be so freaked out if that happened now
Speaker 2: because I'm not having periods anymore. I know that would
Speaker 2: freak me out.
Speaker 1: I know it was not ideal.
Speaker 2: I've had it.
Speaker 3: Happen to three women. I know three women which happened
Speaker 3: to them in public, and they were like, it's embarrassing
Speaker 3: because i feel like I've just got my period for
Speaker 3: the first time, Like I'm a correct a year old girl.
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm fifty two. How have I still got
Speaker 1: like blood on my clothes? Anyway, So that was my worst.
Speaker 1: My best is that we announced last week and new
Speaker 1: CEO for Mom and Me, which is very exp for
Speaker 1: people who might not know. I'm not the CEO of
Speaker 1: MoMA Mia. I'm a co founder. My husband until last
Speaker 1: week was the CEO. He's my co founder, and we've
Speaker 1: been looking for a new CEO for quite some time.
Speaker 1: Jason stepped up into a exec chairman role. We appointed
Speaker 1: Nat Harvey. She's amazing. She came from Channel seven. She
Speaker 1: was the national sales director there. She's been here for
Speaker 1: a few months in a different role and she has
Speaker 1: been handed the reins and I'm very excited.
Speaker 2: She your boss. You a great question.
Speaker 1: We're kind of each other's bosses because Jason and I
Speaker 1: know still own the company and are responsible for it,
Speaker 1: but I'm running things past her and it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: It's like it's a really she's got to put her
Speaker 1: stamp on things. I'm like, how do you want to
Speaker 1: do this? And how do you want to do that?
Speaker 1: And I'm just thrilled also that I don't always have
Speaker 1: to sort of be because Jace was never the face
Speaker 1: of the company. That sort of more fell to me,
Speaker 1: and I never wanted to be that. I just want
Speaker 1: to be able to do my thing. So I'm very excited.
Speaker 1: She's got so much energy, she's cool. Yeah, she's terrific.
Speaker 1: I think she's maybe forty, so I'm older than her.
Speaker 2: She's my boss.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of her boss, but I just love being
Speaker 1: told what to do, so I'm very excited. I can
Speaker 1: tell you what you can. I always listen to you go.
Speaker 3: My worst was recently I turned twenty.
Speaker 2: Eighth man and is that satin return or is that
Speaker 2: twenty seven? It's sat in return? I thought, so, oh,
Speaker 2: you better put that in your freaking tracking oup. My
Speaker 2: saturn returning throwing up my life.
Speaker 3: I think it's between twenty and one fire for the
Speaker 3: whole year.
Speaker 2: Just force quits.
Speaker 3: It is the first birthday of mine where I felt
Speaker 3: like I can't be excited for wall. It's a great
Speaker 3: day what it is. Firstly, the biggest thing, which I
Speaker 3: don't know why I have an issue with, was no one.
Speaker 2: Got me a birthday cake.
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't have a single birthday cake on my birthday, and.
Speaker 2: I love doing what your mother doing to me.
Speaker 3: On I had a dinner with my friends, my parents,
Speaker 3: and few other friends, a few different celebrations. Not one cake,
Speaker 3: not one cake inside, and I was more embarrassed that
Speaker 3: I didn't have a cake. And I was kind of
Speaker 3: like annoyed at my friends and family for not telling
Speaker 3: me they weren't bringing a cake so I could bring
Speaker 3: my own cake.
Speaker 1: My mother in law baked her own cake for her
Speaker 1: birth day.
Speaker 3: I would have done that. I just assumed someone would
Speaker 3: tell me.
Speaker 1: She said, I felt like cake, so I made one.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. She goes, no, No,
Speaker 1: that's not She's much better cook than any of us.
Speaker 3: She's taking it better than I take you are.
Speaker 2: You're feeling bad about twenty eight? Is that what you're
Speaker 2: telling me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm feeling bad about being twenty eight. I feel
Speaker 3: like it's also when you're single alone, it feels like
Speaker 3: I'm forcing people to celebrate me.
Speaker 2: Like I'm the ones of friends and you've got a
Speaker 2: lovely close family.
Speaker 3: One I had to like book the dinner. I'm the
Speaker 3: one who had to like tell people you created this
Speaker 3: day to come have dinner to celebrate me. It's so weird.
Speaker 3: I feel so weird about it.
Speaker 1: So because your parents don't organize it, your partner doesn't
Speaker 1: organize it. All the guys that you're dating don't organize.
Speaker 3: It, not one of them, and I've been with one
Speaker 3: for like a month now. I like to come on.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, is this why I need to be
Speaker 3: in a relationship? Because I just maybe I'll do it
Speaker 3: for the birthday next year and then but yeah, anyway,
Speaker 3: that makes your cake. Anyway, My best is straight after
Speaker 3: my birthday, literally the day after I got the flu,
Speaker 3: and I got a week off.
Speaker 1: God, you must love your job.
Speaker 2: I do tell it's my favorite thing. Ever when fill
Speaker 2: in hosts bitch about work and since they're going like you.
Speaker 3: Have nothing to do with it. I was sick, so
Speaker 3: I had the flu.
Speaker 1: So it's better that having the flu than coming to work.
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, wait to be human. Because as
Speaker 3: podcast hosts, and because I host a daily podcast, I
Speaker 3: physically couldn't come into work because firstly, you have to
Speaker 3: sound good and I sounded dreadful. Plus I didn't want
Speaker 3: to get anyone else sick, so I can't work from
Speaker 3: home in my job. Technically I could really wanted to try,
Speaker 3: but I didn't want to try it there. It was
Speaker 3: a first.
Speaker 2: Go on, not what we're doing a podcast with your
Speaker 2: boss at all.
Speaker 3: I'm feeling great right now.
Speaker 1: Not our heroes wear cakes and some of us wear masks.
Speaker 3: It was the first time I've ever taken sick leave
Speaker 3: I think in years, and I made the decision.
Speaker 2: I'll just check, you can check.
Speaker 3: I made the decision. I put my foot down. I
Speaker 3: was like, I'm going to get one hundred percent better
Speaker 3: before I go into work.
Speaker 2: It's called rest.
Speaker 3: I've never done this before, but resting when you're on
Speaker 3: well is the best experience. I came back into work.
Speaker 3: You need to try. You need to get sick and
Speaker 3: try it. I came back into I can take over
Speaker 3: the way you go home. You get me sick again,
Speaker 3: I will gladly take sick leave again. I will gladly
Speaker 3: take work off again, and you'll.
Speaker 2: Have to find another I cannot wait for the fallout
Speaker 2: from that conversation. My worst. We've kind of touched on
Speaker 2: this on the show before, but the arrogance of voice notes.
Speaker 2: My god, you people, not you people. There's someone in
Speaker 2: my life at the moment who keeps sending me voice notes.
Speaker 3: I don't like that, and they do They not know
Speaker 3: you get paid to do this voice notes for free.
Speaker 2: This is like, it's not a hey, I just want
Speaker 2: to tell you about something that's happened in my life.
Speaker 2: They're trying to get something done, and every time I
Speaker 2: open my thing there's a freaking voice note there. And
Speaker 2: I'm doing things. I'm busy, I'm trying to multitask, and
Speaker 2: I have to to listen to this thing. Go and
Speaker 2: find my bag, find my bloody AirPods, make sure they're connected.
Speaker 2: Spend like no, send me a text message like a
Speaker 2: proper human, just saying hey, is this day okay?
Speaker 3: Like, yes it is.
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear your voice. Not the arrogance
Speaker 2: of thinking like people loved to bitch about phones. I'd
Speaker 2: rather she just called me. Just call me and we'll
Speaker 2: sort it out and put the phone down. Move on.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 4: I feel like you're.
Speaker 3: Saying two different completely, Like what's the difference between a
Speaker 3: phone call and a voice note?
Speaker 2: Because I have to, like, well, a I get to
Speaker 2: choose whether or not I answer the phone, and on
Speaker 2: the phone we can have this thing called synchronous. Is
Speaker 2: that what we're calling it? Synchronous synchronous communication where we
Speaker 2: can solve an issue there and then I'm doing another thing,
Speaker 2: or I'm getting my coffee or I'm working and I
Speaker 2: see I've got a voice note for this person. I
Speaker 2: have to stop my life listen to the voice note.
Speaker 1: That is it different to a text because they're both
Speaker 1: asynchronous For.
Speaker 2: It, I don't need to put my ear buds in
Speaker 2: and stop what I'm doing?
Speaker 1: Extra thing, isn't it? But most voice transcribe it for
Speaker 1: you because you can read faster than we can listen.
Speaker 3: Yes, maybe they're taking the piss out of your job
Speaker 3: and they're like, look, I can do it too.
Speaker 2: No they're not. They're just being lazy and going I
Speaker 2: don't want to type.
Speaker 1: No, it's doing that's saying sorry, I've sent a long email.
Speaker 1: I didn't have time to write a short one to
Speaker 1: be like that. Yes, so I can't be bothered to text,
Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna but I do it in the cart,
Speaker 1: which is also.
Speaker 2: Really pay voice notes. Don't leave me a voice notes.
Speaker 2: I love you, but don't I get the point If
Speaker 2: it's the catch up, you know when we talked about it,
Speaker 2: when someone's like, here's what's going on in my life,
Speaker 2: and I can choose when to listen to it. But
Speaker 2: if we're actually trying to organize something, no, don't do it. Okay,
Speaker 2: the arrogance of voice notes, that's my worst, my best.
Speaker 2: This is just a Brent appreciate ocean moment. Right last
Speaker 2: Friday night, in the town I live in, every year
Speaker 2: they have this little festival and it's like a speech festival.
Speaker 2: It's called a night and anyone can enter. Everyone can
Speaker 2: do a five minute speech like a public speaking yeah,
Speaker 2: and it can be about anything, but it can't be
Speaker 2: longer than five minutes, which is great.
Speaker 3: I love that idea.
Speaker 2: And you have to do PowerPoint slides and there are
Speaker 2: this many of them and they move quickly and it's
Speaker 2: great during that you're so you go and they split
Speaker 2: it up so it's not too boring, and there's wine
Speaker 2: and there's noodles and you know, and basically you Sait
Speaker 2: and I watched us talk about like everything from design
Speaker 2: to ADHD. The ADHD speech was great. It was called
Speaker 2: do I have ADHD? Or Am I an Asshole? Was fantastic.
Speaker 1: Now that makes sense because I thought you were at
Speaker 1: a school speech night and you sent me a slide
Speaker 1: a photo of that slide Do I have ADHD? Or
Speaker 1: Am I an Asshole?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well that seems little school and they
Speaker 2: like travel and this and that, you know, design things
Speaker 2: that people are into seaweed. Brent did one, because Brent
Speaker 2: always does. He did one about air guitar. And there
Speaker 2: is a little known thing about Brent because I do
Speaker 2: not advertise this for very obvious reasons.
Speaker 3: I think you should that.
Speaker 2: When I first met Brent, which is nearly twenty years ago,
Speaker 2: on our very first date, he told me that he
Speaker 2: had entered a professional air guitar competition before and that
Speaker 2: he was joking, and I went, lol, except I didn't
Speaker 2: say that, because we didn't say that. Then you genuinely like, actually,
Speaker 2: she said horror, horror, horror, a pirate. But he wasn't joking.
Speaker 2: And one of his hobbies for the first couple of
Speaker 2: years of our relationship was entering professional air guitar competitions
Speaker 2: and I had to go and watch. You probably don't
Speaker 2: know this, but there's a worldwide air guitar championship in
Speaker 2: Finland every year. I didn't know, and Australia sends one person, Brent.
Speaker 2: It wasn't Brent. He never made it to the finals.
Speaker 2: He's very upset. He's a competitors held in camera every year.
Speaker 2: Big deal, right Anyway, I have always been deeply ashamed
Speaker 2: about this about my Brent, because he's a great guy.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, that's the most mortifying shit. No one
Speaker 2: needs to know about that. And then on Friday night
Speaker 2: he gave a speech for five minutes in front of
Speaker 2: all these people that we know and many that we don't,
Speaker 2: about his professional air guitar career, and then at the
Speaker 2: end of it, he did thirty seconds of a guitar.
Speaker 3: I love him.
Speaker 2: And what I realized, which I have realized obviously over
Speaker 2: the course of our relationship, is that although it's mortifying
Speaker 2: to me because I'm much more interested in my own
Speaker 2: self image than he is, one of the very best
Speaker 2: things about Brent and people like Brent is being cool
Speaker 2: is so far down his list of priorities. It isn't
Speaker 2: there right. He just is like, I like doing this.
Speaker 2: Who gives a shit, I'm doing it, And it's one
Speaker 2: of the things that actually makes him a really excellent person.
Speaker 2: He doesn't pretend to be someone he isn't. He doesn't like.
Speaker 1: Very attractive quality.
Speaker 2: He's very who he is, and sometimes who he is
Speaker 2: is really embarrassing, but hey, that's life. And so I
Speaker 2: watched him do it, and instead of dying, which I
Speaker 2: thought I was going to, I was like, do I
Speaker 2: really have to come? And then I was like, no,
Speaker 2: support him supporting me or supports you. I actually had
Speaker 2: like tears of laughter, enjoy running down my face, and
Speaker 2: I was like, look at that freaking idiot. Go I
Speaker 2: love him.
Speaker 3: I thought he was great. Can I be honest like
Speaker 3: I thought he was great? And I was like, I
Speaker 3: think it's a risky you posted it because a lot
Speaker 3: of single women follow you.
Speaker 2: I don't think so, A lot a lot of women
Speaker 2: just gave me this anyway, that's my best for the week.
Speaker 2: I loved it. That is all we Oh, it's not
Speaker 2: all we have time for.
Speaker 1: We also are going to tell you what else we've
Speaker 1: got on our podcast this week. Because we all freelance, freestyle,
Speaker 1: side hustle on other shows, we all cheat on this one.
Speaker 1: On No Filter this week, I interviewed Raina Cohen and
Speaker 1: we discussed the idea of what if our friends are
Speaker 1: our soulmates? It's really interesting. It's about the idea of
Speaker 1: prioritizing friendships over having a partner. And you should have
Speaker 1: had a significant other who was a friend or going
Speaker 1: to have your birthday cakere you?
Speaker 2: Should you need a comment?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Who did you talk to me?
Speaker 2: I talked to Katherine May, who is an author, a
Speaker 2: British author who I love because she wrote a book
Speaker 2: called Wintering that went really nuts. Joining me I'm always
Speaker 2: speaking about that. It was about rest and burnout. So
Speaker 2: you would have liked to m company at this episode,
Speaker 2: but no, it was about burnout. And she has a
Speaker 2: very clear way of defining burnout, which is what happens
Speaker 2: to you when you consistently deprioritize your own needs. And
Speaker 2: a lot of midlife women obviously are doing that. They're caring,
Speaker 2: they're working, they're caring, they're working. And then she has
Speaker 2: this sort of radical point that all the things we're
Speaker 2: told to do to cure it slow down. Dahl basically,
Speaker 2: you know, meditate, you do this, and that is almost
Speaker 2: impossible when you've got a lot of responsibilities and was
Speaker 2: almost certainly like designed by a guy. She was like
Speaker 2: she once went on this meditation retreat and the guy
Speaker 2: who was leading it was like, so three times a day,
Speaker 2: just take your half an hour and she's like.
Speaker 4: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Who's looking after your children? Like what's going anyway? So
Speaker 2: it's a really really great episode, if I say so myself,
Speaker 2: but that's not because of me, it's kind of hers.
Speaker 2: Great Catherine may burnout. What did you do this week?
Speaker 3: This week, I did a lot of things. I wasn't
Speaker 3: resting this week, just so you know, Just so you know,
Speaker 3: we talked all about a lot of things on the spill.
Speaker 3: It's obviously a daily podcast, but one of my favorite
Speaker 3: episodes we did was earlier in the week. We talked
Speaker 3: about Northwest as Simba in the Lion King thirtieth Reunion
Speaker 3: thirtieth Concerts, Northwest being Kim Kardashian west Child.
Speaker 2: A lot of snarky tone about that poor kid.
Speaker 3: No, you don't feel bad.
Speaker 2: It's not her fault. It is her fault.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry from what I heard on this bill. Kim
Speaker 1: got her her own like she was in the proper
Speaker 1: Broadway production of The Linking Right, which I've seen many times.
Speaker 1: The costumes are amazing. Hudson was in there, it was huge,
Speaker 1: but she got a special costume designed for Northwest, so
Speaker 1: Northwest looked like she was in a completely different show.
Speaker 2: Every other costume I mean, crikey, but this is this
Speaker 2: North's fault. Anyway.
Speaker 3: Anyway, we talked about and we talked about Northwest, the
Speaker 3: biggest ever baby out there right now, She's not even
Speaker 3: trying to hide it. And the secondhand embarrassment I got
Speaker 3: from her performance.
Speaker 2: That is all we have time for today. I think
Speaker 2: we've talked a lot for Friday. It's been very fun.
Speaker 2: Thank you to you and for filling in for Jesse.
Speaker 2: You've been great. Thank you.
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to log this in my app tonight.
Speaker 1: Take it rost day off.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Thank you to our team that is
Speaker 2: the amazing Emma Ling Gazillous, the assistant producer Charlie Blackman,
Speaker 2: audio producer Leah Porges, and our brand manager Kerry Scott Jackson.
Speaker 2: We'll see you all next week. Goodbye bye. You're beautiful.
Speaker 2: Have I told you lately? You're beautiful? Mea, You're so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mama Mia subscribers listening. If you
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing
Speaker 2: to Momma Mia is the very best way to do it.
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description.