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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast. Weight loss injections are

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Speaker 1: already here, but in the US they've just been approved

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Speaker 1: as daily pills. Now those tablets may be inching closer

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Speaker 1: to being available in Australia. As GLP one medicines move

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Speaker 1: from fridges and pen injections to something you can swallow

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Speaker 1: with your morning coffee, the questions about what they actually

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Speaker 1: do to our bodies are only getting louder. So what

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Speaker 1: if you could sit down with one of the pioneers

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Speaker 1: of the drug and just ask today we're doing just that.

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Speaker 1: It's the quickie for Thursday, April two. I'm Taylor Strano.

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Speaker 1: Here's Clare Murphy with the latest news headlines.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Taylor. In a speech broadcast on all major TV

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Speaker 2: and radio networks last night, Prime Minister Anthony al Benezi

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Speaker 2: urged all Australians to look out for one another, while

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Speaker 2: warning there may be difficult times ahead, but.

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Speaker 3: I understand that right now it's hard to be positive.

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Speaker 3: The war in the Middle East is cards the biggest

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Speaker 3: spike in petrol and diesel prices in history. Australia is

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Speaker 3: not an active participant in this war, but all Australians

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Speaker 3: are paying higher prices because of it. I know that

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Speaker 3: you're seeing this at the servo and at the supermarket,

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Speaker 3: and I understand farmers and truckies, small businesses and families

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Speaker 3: are doing it tough. And the reality is the economic

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Speaker 3: shocks caused by this war will be with us for months.

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Speaker 2: He urged people to consider getting public transport to work

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Speaker 2: instead of driving in a bid to preserve the nation's

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Speaker 2: fuel reserves, and told motorists heading on road trips over

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Speaker 2: Easter to only take as much petrol and diesel as

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Speaker 2: they needed.

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Speaker 3: You should go about your business and your life as normal.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy your Easter, and if you're hitting the road, don't

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Speaker 3: take more fuel than you need. Just fill up like

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Speaker 3: you normally would. Think of others in your community, in

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Speaker 3: the bush and in critical industries and overcoming weeks, if

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Speaker 3: you can switch to catching the train or bus or

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Speaker 3: tram to work, do so.

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Speaker 2: The PM also explained how his government was helping bring

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Speaker 2: the price of fuel down in the short term, while

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Speaker 2: admitting this would not be a short term issue.

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Speaker 3: Today, we cut the fuel excise in half, cutting the

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Speaker 3: tax on every leader of petrol by twenty six cents.

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Speaker 3: Those savings have started showing up at your petrol station

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Speaker 3: for our truck is We have cut the heavy vehicle

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Speaker 3: road user charge to zero. Both these measures will be

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Speaker 3: in place for the next three months. We are working

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Speaker 3: to bring the price of fuel down to make more

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Speaker 3: fuel here and to keep it on shore and get

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Speaker 3: more fuel here using our strong trading relationships with our

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Speaker 3: region to bring more petrol, diesel and fertilizer to Australia.

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Speaker 2: While the response to the Prime Minister's speech has been

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Speaker 2: regarded by some as something that could have been an

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Speaker 2: email rather than a meeting, some experts have said that

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Speaker 2: addressing the nation to tell them not to panic may

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Speaker 2: actually have the opposite effect. Meanwhile, in Western Australia, the

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Speaker 2: state government activated emergency powers, allowing it to force the

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Speaker 2: fuel industry to share information about its supply chains. The

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Speaker 2: move will allow the government to demand specific details about

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Speaker 2: where fuel is and where it's needed in a bid

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Speaker 2: to alleviate shortages in some areas. Premier Roger Cook said

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Speaker 2: the emergency powers declaration is not the same as the

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Speaker 2: one that was done during the pandemic, but was rather

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Speaker 2: targeted specifically at the fuel industry. Donald Trump has attended

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court in the US to hear arguments over

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Speaker 2: the legality of his directive to restrict birthright citizenship. The

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Speaker 2: justices were hearing the US administration's appeal of a lower

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Speaker 2: court's decision that blocked his executive order directing US agencies

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Speaker 2: not to recognize the citizenship of children born in the

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Speaker 2: United States if neither parent is a US citizen or

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Speaker 2: legal permanent resident, also called a green card holder. Trump

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Speaker 2: sat in the front row of the public gallery, making

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Speaker 2: him the first sitting president to attend an oral argument

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Speaker 2: at the Supreme Court. Also yesterday, Trump took to social

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Speaker 2: media to claim that Iran's new leader had asked the

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Speaker 2: US for a ceasefire. The US president wrote that Iran's

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Speaker 2: new regime president, who he says is much less radicalized

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Speaker 2: and far more intelligent than his predecessors, asked for the ceasefire,

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Speaker 2: Trump writing that they will consider it when the strait

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Speaker 2: of hull Wors is open, free and clear, saying until then,

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Speaker 2: the US is blasting Iran into oblivion. Iran doesn't actually

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Speaker 2: have a new president, Masud Pozeshkiin has been in the

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Speaker 2: role since twenty twenty four. Trump has also suggested that

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Speaker 2: the US will withdraw from the NATO military Alliance, calling

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Speaker 2: it a paper tiger after allies failed to back his

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Speaker 2: military action in Iran. He had asked for several countries

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Speaker 2: to come to the aid of the US to help

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Speaker 2: reopen the Strait of Hullors, but most responded that they

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Speaker 2: were not consulted about the military action to begin with

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Speaker 2: and didn't want to be drawn into a war that

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Speaker 2: had not been sanctioned. Jackie o Henderson's friend, business partner

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Speaker 2: and podcast co host Gemmer O'Neil, has revealed why she

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Speaker 2: deleted her Instagram in the wake of Henderson's bust up

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Speaker 2: with Karl Sandalan's O'Neil appeared on the podcast Instagram to

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Speaker 2: hit back at stories being written about her that she

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Speaker 2: was going quiet after Henderson's contract ended with radio network

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Speaker 2: ARN and reporting around her business, Jemmy Agency, which went

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Speaker 2: into voluntary liquidation last year owing debts of more than

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Speaker 2: half a million dollars. O'Neil explained that the level of

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Speaker 2: online abuse she was receiving became too much.

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Speaker 4: I stand by my integrity, I stand by my work,

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Speaker 4: and I stand by how I've conducted myself in business

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Speaker 4: over a very long career and what's been particularly hard

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Speaker 4: is seeing assumptions made about things like me apparently going quiet,

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Speaker 4: but the reality was that I was receiving a level

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Speaker 4: of online abuse that was quite frankly disgusting and felt

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Speaker 4: very scary.

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Speaker 2: She also revealed that there was more going on in

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Speaker 2: her personal life aside from what had been making headlines,

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Speaker 2: and just a warning that what you're about to hear

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Speaker 2: involves pregnancy.

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Speaker 4: Loss and so I made the decision to step back

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Speaker 4: from my personal Instagram to protect my mental health while

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Speaker 4: I was pregnant. Obviously, since then, I've been going through

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Speaker 4: something very personal with the loss of a baby. None

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Speaker 4: of that has anything to do with me having something

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Speaker 4: to hide. It was about me taking care of myself

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Speaker 4: during a very difficult moment.

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Speaker 2: It was revealed this week that Henderson, whose one hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollar contract was torn up after she told her

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Speaker 2: bosses at AARN she could no longer work with Sandalan's,

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Speaker 2: was now also suing her former employer for at least

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Speaker 2: eighty two million dollars in damages.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to the Next All Your GLP one Questions Answered.

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Speaker 1: GLP ones started life as diabetes medicine. Now they're being

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Speaker 1: prescribed for medical weight loss for people living with obesity disease.

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Speaker 1: With two thirds of Australians living with obesity, a new

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Speaker 1: way to treat the disease was welcomed when it first

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Speaker 1: arrived down Under around twenty nineteen, but the more popular

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Speaker 1: they've become, the more questions have followed. Today we have

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Speaker 1: rare access to someone who can actually answer those questions

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Speaker 1: from the inside. Professor Las Debier Nudsen is one of

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Speaker 1: the pioneers of GLP one science and now the chief

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Speaker 1: scientific advisor at the global healthcare company behind Ozebic, WGOVI

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Speaker 1: and secender Novo. Notice she's in Australia for the first

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Speaker 1: time and we've been given the chance to get answers

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Speaker 1: to all your questions now. As a reminder, this episode

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Speaker 1: is not telling you about what you should take or

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Speaker 1: how you should feel about your body. It's about giving

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Speaker 1: you a direct line to the science so you can

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Speaker 1: ask better questions of your own doctor, feel less at

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Speaker 1: the mercy of rumors, and understand why GLP ones have

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Speaker 1: become one of the most talked about areas in modern medicine. Lott,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. Before we actually talk about

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Speaker 1: any science, I want to speak to you about your

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Speaker 1: personal style, which is not something that I thought we

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Speaker 1: would John, but I'm glad we are. Folks might recognize

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Speaker 1: you from your very distinct style. You are always photographed

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Speaker 1: in pink. Can you tell us a bit about why

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Speaker 1: that is.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I wear pink for an actual reason, you know.

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Speaker 5: I wear pink to advertise for more women and girls

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Speaker 5: going into science. I've always been colorful, but it was

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Speaker 5: a big thing that kind of started a little bit

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Speaker 5: by coincident. You know, I was about to turn sixty.

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Speaker 5: I'm sixty two now, and I thought, you know, why

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Speaker 5: do I wear pink soup per work for an entire

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Speaker 5: week and just maybe also a chars as I'm proud

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Speaker 5: of being sixty. And then, you know, jilpi One became

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Speaker 5: famous and I started to get all these awards, which

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Speaker 5: is something I never had any kind of imagination or

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Speaker 5: desire for, and I thought I could also wear pink

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Speaker 5: for an award. So now it's just become a thing.

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Speaker 5: And I've also been in Hollywood and had my picture

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Speaker 5: with Leonard or DiCaprio in a pink dress, and I

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Speaker 5: met wonder World, and so then I get so much

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Speaker 5: feedback from women, from fathers, to daughters where the daughters

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Speaker 5: are thinking about going into science, or the dad wants

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Speaker 5: to inspire their daughters. So I get overwhelming feedback, a

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Speaker 5: little bit of negative as well. That's fine. I can

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Speaker 5: help a little bit more so. Now it's just become

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Speaker 5: a thing, you know. And for my career, you know,

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Speaker 5: there were very few female role models. So I want

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Speaker 5: to be a female role model for women and girls

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Speaker 5: in science and to show people that you know, you

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Speaker 5: can be who you are. Just be bold, be who

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Speaker 5: you are and be a little kind and where whatever

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Speaker 5: you want.

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Speaker 1: JLP one medications have gone from this niche treatment to

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Speaker 1: something that most of our audience have heard of, if

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Speaker 1: not a lot of them have used at some point.

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Speaker 1: If diet and exercise are still considered the gold standard

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Speaker 1: for health, why are we seeing such a strong shift

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Speaker 1: towards drug based approaches instead of just doubling down on

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Speaker 1: that messaging about lifestyle.

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Speaker 5: It's changing the dialogue because also the way these matters

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Speaker 5: are work right, they help you feel more cediated and

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Speaker 5: less hungry. They also change how you feel about food,

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Speaker 5: and some people are that live with obesity say you

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Speaker 5: have this food noise in their brains all the time.

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Speaker 5: And that really gets dramatically reduced when you use these medicines.

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Speaker 5: And then on top of that, you know there are

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Speaker 5: all the additional health benefits on the cardiovascular system, the liver,

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Speaker 5: of the kidney. So I think when people have tried

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Speaker 5: these medicines, then they get to feel that those are

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Speaker 5: the benefits.

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Speaker 1: Are we in danger of creating this narrative that bodies

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Speaker 1: can't function without medication? And what are the risks of

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Speaker 1: doing that long term? I know that we say diet

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Speaker 1: and exercise, but if that doesn't work for you, maybe

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Speaker 1: medication will. Is that also then reinforcing that, well, you

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Speaker 1: won't be able to do it without the medication.

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Speaker 5: Well, we have a problem in our societies, right. You know,

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Speaker 5: I've been working in this field for more than thirty

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Speaker 5: years and I'm just seeing obese city rates all over

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Speaker 5: the world just go up and up and up. You

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Speaker 5: could even say they're skywalkeeting. So we really have a problem,

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Speaker 5: and we probably need to talk much more about what

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Speaker 5: could help with prevention. How could we change the food

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Speaker 5: environment and make people more aware of how many calories

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Speaker 5: they would be consumed. I think that's a very important dialogue,

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Speaker 5: but that we don't talk enough about maybe we're being

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Speaker 5: too polite about how what is actually a healthy lifestyle.

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Speaker 5: So these medicines provide a solution, and there are many

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Speaker 5: people who desperately need them.

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Speaker 1: Some critics say the focus on JLP one risks turning

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Speaker 1: body image pressure into a medical issue that's been dressed

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Speaker 1: up as health How do you respond to those concerns?

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Speaker 1: And they you worried at all that this could become

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Speaker 1: a new version of diet culture when people are reaching

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Speaker 1: for these medications and they maybe don't need to address

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Speaker 1: it in that way.

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Speaker 5: So I respond to these concerns by focusing on the

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Speaker 5: people who actually really need these medicines, right, And we

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Speaker 5: have actually shown that you get good effects on the

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Speaker 5: heart and the brain when you are these medicines. So

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Speaker 5: to those people who are saying that excess body weight

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Speaker 5: is not a disease, but it is, because we've shown

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Speaker 5: that when you are on these medicines you get a

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Speaker 5: lower cardiovascular risk, so that means it is a disease.

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Speaker 1: What about people though, who maybe don't fall into the

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Speaker 1: category of needing medications like these for health reasons and

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Speaker 1: are more so in the camp of their accessing them

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Speaker 1: off the back of a body image issue.

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Speaker 5: I'm a scientist, right, so I obviously and I spent

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Speaker 5: thirty years developing this, so I obviously think that the

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Speaker 5: medicine should go to the ones who need them the

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Speaker 5: most and to the ones who are actually indicated what

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Speaker 5: the product is approved for. I would like to focus

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Speaker 5: on that. You know, the availability of the medicines have

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Speaker 5: really changed the dialogue. Yes, then there's also that dialogue

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Speaker 5: of whether it's driving an unhealthy side to too low

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Speaker 5: body weight. But I think the majority of the people

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Speaker 5: who take these medicines they truly need them. And then

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Speaker 5: I think it's a smaller issue than we think sometimes

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Speaker 5: when we hear it in the media, because I do

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Speaker 5: think that the majority of the people really need it

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Speaker 5: for the health benefits.

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Speaker 1: Laddie, this has been three decades of your life working

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Speaker 1: on this. You're clearly extremely proud of what you've been

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Speaker 1: able to produce in going to help curb the disease

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Speaker 1: of obesity. How do you feel when people who don't

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Speaker 1: have obesity are able to access and use these drugs

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Speaker 1: for maybe more of a cosmetic purpose in weight loss.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, obviously I don't approve of that, but you know,

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Speaker 5: it's also outside my control, and I know from the

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Speaker 5: data that the majority of the people who are using

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Speaker 5: these medicines really really need it.

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Speaker 1: We constantly see these headlines about the harrowing side effects.

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Speaker 1: So on one hand, people take medication to help aid

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Speaker 1: in their medical weight loss. But then on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: as this has become more popular in society, we started

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Speaker 1: to see side effect stories, so everything from severe gut

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Speaker 1: problems to blindness. Even in very very rare cases, there's

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Speaker 1: the chance of death. And then of course the other

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Speaker 1: things that you're warned about, like hair loss and it

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Speaker 1: changing your physical appearance as well. For people who are

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Speaker 1: watching all of this, reading these headlines, hearing these accounts,

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Speaker 1: how can they know that this class of medication is

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Speaker 1: genuinely being monitored for their safety.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the way to look at this is maybe to

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Speaker 5: actually start to go a little bit deeper than the

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Speaker 5: headlines and the media, because you hear all kinds of

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Speaker 5: things that get reported. And yes, it will change people's

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Speaker 5: appearance when you lose sweet, but the side effects are

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Speaker 5: very well documented and the common side effect is like

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Speaker 5: nausia and vomiting. There are other medicines who do the

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Speaker 5: same thing, and you can get used to it with time.

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Speaker 1: There is quite a lot of reporting around the mental

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Speaker 1: health effects of taking this medication. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: have reported they feel worse mentally after doing so. Is

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Speaker 1: there any scientific reasoning behind that?

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Speaker 5: I have to point to the actual clinical trial where

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Speaker 5: there's a control group to compare with, and in fact

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Speaker 5: people feel better. There's also you know, you mentioned real

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Speaker 5: world evidence earlier. You know, we have a lot of

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Speaker 5: real world evidence. Because this drug class is so widely used,

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Speaker 5: and the evidence point to the opposite, people are actually

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Speaker 5: handling their mental health better.

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Speaker 1: I think as well. When we talk about the long

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Speaker 1: term effects of taking a weight loss injection or a

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Speaker 1: weight loss medication, people are really curious about, well, can

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Speaker 1: you stay on it forever? And then what happens when

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Speaker 1: you come off it? Because people are really living in

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Speaker 1: fear that everything that they work towards while taking that

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Speaker 1: medication could be undone.

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Speaker 5: It is approved for chronic use, right, just like medicines

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Speaker 5: for diabetes or cardiovascular disease or high blood pressure. Right.

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Speaker 5: It's a little bit interesting because no one is suggesting

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Speaker 5: if you're well controlled on your diabetes medication that you

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Speaker 5: should stop it, right. It is actually the same here.

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Speaker 5: So I think we need to go through a little

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Speaker 5: bit of a dialogue on that obesity actually is a disease.

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Speaker 5: And you know people are different, right, and of course

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Speaker 5: there could be different subpopulations of people with obesity who

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Speaker 5: would be able to kind of like settle themselves in

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Speaker 5: the new level of body size and then be able

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Speaker 5: to manage on their own. Probably most people will not

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Speaker 5: unless they have a change of environment and maybe start

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Speaker 5: to see like an exercise coach or really or a

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Speaker 5: dietitian so they can somehow keep up with having a

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Speaker 5: different lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: When people talk about the stopping a drug and then

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Speaker 1: they quickly regained their weight, they feel like maybe their

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Speaker 1: metabolism is worse. Is that a proven scientific fact? Have

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Speaker 1: we studied at length what happens when people stop taking

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Speaker 1: this medication?

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Speaker 5: We have, Actually, there are a couple of studies so

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Speaker 5: with a large number of people where you look at

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Speaker 5: what happens up to a year after and I use

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Speaker 5: it quickly regain the weight. That's actually not what the

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Speaker 5: data shows. The data shows that one year after stopping

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Speaker 5: the treatment, the average is that that half the weight

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Speaker 5: is regained, but not all of it. But they will

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Speaker 5: start feeling more hungry because you know, what the medicine

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Speaker 5: helps you do is kind of settle on a new

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Speaker 5: body weight where you feel comfortable. You know, it's also

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Speaker 5: about things like walking ability, it's about being able to

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Speaker 5: have a good life. And you know that's actually reflected

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Speaker 5: in the questionnaires we've asked people in the clinical trial

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Speaker 5: that it all comes out in a positive score.

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Speaker 1: We've had a listener ask about so called zembic face.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you're familiar with this term. I

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Speaker 1: have heard it now, Okay, So, rapid changes in how

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Speaker 1: someone looks in through a lot of taking a JLP one.

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Speaker 1: What's the scientific explanation of those visible changes in some people?

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Speaker 1: Is there any evidence space that actually addresses that.

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Speaker 5: No, it's just weight loss, right, It's just when you

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Speaker 5: lose weight, of course it will be and if you

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Speaker 5: lose a lot of weight, it's going to be very visible.

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Speaker 5: And then you know, some people have the apple shape,

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Speaker 5: some people have the pear shape, right, and there are

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Speaker 5: some people who have more excess fat around their neck, right,

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Speaker 5: And if you have that, it's going to be more visible.

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Speaker 5: So it's just that the skin has been a different size, right,

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Speaker 5: So and when you lose weight, it's going to look different.

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Speaker 1: We have a question from someone who is an avid

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Speaker 1: Quickie listener. They want to know, do these medications make

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Speaker 1: you sad?

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Speaker 5: That's a really good question, and the answer is a

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Speaker 5: clear no, right because it comes back to the way

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Speaker 5: that they work on the brain, right, hunger and society,

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Speaker 5: but also changing how you feel about food. And then

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Speaker 5: there are some people who are saying, oh, but that's

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Speaker 5: going to damp and your likeness for everything. So data

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Speaker 5: doesn't show that. It's more that it creates a new

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Speaker 5: level in your brain. Right. And actually, when we ask

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Speaker 5: people how they feel, they feel better. They feel that

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Speaker 5: they are more able to actually manage life and manage work.

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Speaker 5: It's entirely opposite to that story which I have heard before.

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Speaker 5: People feel better.

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Speaker 1: Some people have described feeling like being addicted to a

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Speaker 1: jail paid one medication or terrified to stop it because

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Speaker 1: of that weight gain or regain that we were talking

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Speaker 1: about just before. Even if this isn't a classic drug addiction,

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Speaker 1: does it trouble you that the discovery that you've helped

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Speaker 1: pioneer can leave people feeling like they are dependent on it.

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Speaker 5: This is not drug addiction. Drug addiction is something entirely different,

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Speaker 5: which is very very dangerous if you are addicted to drugs,

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Speaker 5: and so this is different. I think this is about

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Speaker 5: people really wanting to be in that new health stage

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Speaker 5: and then they can get anxious about whether they can

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Speaker 5: actually get the medicines. But this to me as a scientist,

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Speaker 5: is very different from addiction, right, because addiction leads to

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Speaker 5: very dangerous behavior. This is wanting to be in that

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Speaker 5: size that you now have.

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Speaker 1: Recently, the FDA pointed to a couple of cases of

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Speaker 1: people using these drugs who had died. One of them

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Speaker 1: was by suicide. Now the FDA has said that nov

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Speaker 1: notice it wasn't directly from these drugs that caused these deaths,

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Speaker 1: but it did say that some reporting around side effects

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Speaker 1: was not clear and accurate. From your perspective, how does

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Speaker 1: something like that happen. Is it a breakdown somewhere between

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Speaker 1: when it goes out to public in the market and

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Speaker 1: from in the lab that it's not properly reported, or

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Speaker 1: do you think that these deaths are completely unrelated.

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Speaker 5: So interesting that you mentioned suicidal thoughts an FDA, because

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Speaker 5: the FDA has decided to remove the suicidal warning from

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00:21:04,175 --> 00:21:09,254
Speaker 5: the label so that's actually very rare a warning gets removed.

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Speaker 5: There will always be people when a medicine is used

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00:21:12,895 --> 00:21:16,054
Speaker 5: that widely, of course, so will be people who die

390
00:21:16,175 --> 00:21:19,134
Speaker 5: and experience side affection. As a scientist, I need to

391
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Speaker 5: look at the actual evidence in the clinical trial and

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Speaker 5: their death and cardiovascular deaths are significantly reduced, so it's

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Speaker 5: like twenty percent less. But you know, when millions use

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Speaker 5: the treatments, of course, so it will be some people

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Speaker 5: who die. Well.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about the pill because never Noticed has

397
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Speaker 1: launched the oral pill for weite loss in the US.

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Speaker 1: The version of that is now being assessed by the TGA.

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Speaker 1: Here is that something that we're likely to see available

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Speaker 1: widely to the public in Australia.

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Speaker 5: So I don't know when it's going to be available

402
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Speaker 5: in Australia right because obviously when we submitted it for approval,

403
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Speaker 5: we do mean to make it available.

404
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Speaker 1: Can you explain to us, with the introduction of an

405
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Speaker 1: oral version of the drug, how does that work? Is

406
00:22:06,175 --> 00:22:08,814
Speaker 1: it once a day, is it once a month? What's

407
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Speaker 1: the administration?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so we spent actually quite some time figuring out

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Speaker 5: how to get that to work because it is a

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Speaker 5: little bit unusual that you can take a medicine that's

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Speaker 5: meant to be an injectable and also make it allly

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Speaker 5: available and so you'd have to take it once a day.

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Speaker 1: More broadly, jailp ones have now been linked to everything

414
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Speaker 1: from heart health to dementia inflammation. Are we at risk

415
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Speaker 1: of promising too much to too many people?

416
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Speaker 5: It's about the evidence, right, and the evidence really does

417
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Speaker 5: support that this type of medicine is just very different

418
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Speaker 5: from anything we've seen before. It really does have benefits

419
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Speaker 5: on the heart, on the kidney, on the liver, even

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Speaker 5: people who have peripheral artery disease also they have a

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Speaker 5: benefit as well. People who have austa tritis, you know,

422
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Speaker 5: they can walk much better, people who have heart failure.

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Speaker 5: They can also exercise more. And we have a profoundly

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Speaker 5: lowered dach of inflammation. And I think mainly I think

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Speaker 5: the general problic do understand sort of like inflammation and

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Speaker 5: it's a good idea to dampen inflammation if you have

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Speaker 5: that right. So that is reduced up to fifty percent

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Speaker 5: when you're on these medicine. So I think the evidence

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Speaker 5: is there.

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Speaker 1: Are you worried that maybe some people will place taking

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00:23:25,455 --> 00:23:29,974
Speaker 1: medication above other aspects that could really be the solution

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00:23:30,094 --> 00:23:34,215
Speaker 1: to their complex health issues, like prevention, nutrition, mental health,

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Speaker 1: social factors. Is there a concern that people are going

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Speaker 1: to say, well, I can take the medicine and that'll

435
00:23:38,895 --> 00:23:41,655
Speaker 1: make me better over having to worry about all these

436
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Speaker 1: other factors.

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Speaker 5: I like to think about how you know, there wasn't

438
00:23:46,054 --> 00:23:50,334
Speaker 5: that option before, and now so many people cannot find

439
00:23:50,375 --> 00:23:54,934
Speaker 5: the right balance between society and the way we are

440
00:23:54,975 --> 00:23:58,935
Speaker 5: living and the food availability which is everywhere. So I'd

441
00:23:59,014 --> 00:24:01,854
Speaker 5: like to think more about how it actually helps a

442
00:24:01,895 --> 00:24:05,494
Speaker 5: lot of people. Of course, we should have a balanced dialogue,

443
00:24:05,854 --> 00:24:09,734
Speaker 5: nurance dialogue, so we should bring those issues up. But

444
00:24:09,814 --> 00:24:13,215
Speaker 5: there are just a lot of people who cannot find

445
00:24:13,254 --> 00:24:16,214
Speaker 5: the balance in society that we live in today.

446
00:24:16,695 --> 00:24:19,455
Speaker 1: Lot patients are trying to weigh up the risk and

447
00:24:19,494 --> 00:24:23,494
Speaker 1: benefits to maybe accessing one of these drugs in what

448
00:24:23,614 --> 00:24:27,254
Speaker 1: is a very noisy conversation, right We like we've talked

449
00:24:27,294 --> 00:24:29,694
Speaker 1: about We've seen lots of headlines, We've dug into some

450
00:24:29,734 --> 00:24:33,895
Speaker 1: of the details here today. In your view, how should

451
00:24:34,054 --> 00:24:39,014
Speaker 1: ordinary people navigate this conversation? What should they be looking at,

452
00:24:39,094 --> 00:24:41,694
Speaker 1: what should they be asking their gp when they have

453
00:24:41,814 --> 00:24:42,614
Speaker 1: this conversation.

454
00:24:43,294 --> 00:24:46,774
Speaker 5: Yeah, they should have a conversation with their GP about

455
00:24:46,774 --> 00:24:49,895
Speaker 5: their health and whether this is a solution for them

456
00:24:50,215 --> 00:24:53,215
Speaker 5: and get the right advice to how they should start

457
00:24:53,294 --> 00:24:56,254
Speaker 5: the medicines, how they should think about their diet and

458
00:24:56,294 --> 00:24:59,854
Speaker 5: their exercise. We're all using AI today, So actually the

459
00:25:00,494 --> 00:25:04,455
Speaker 5: chatiberty or cloud is actually really good to give you

460
00:25:04,734 --> 00:25:09,614
Speaker 5: to outline the evidence and have a discussion around these things.

461
00:25:09,695 --> 00:25:12,095
Speaker 5: You know, that's where last Lankers model is actually really

462
00:25:12,135 --> 00:25:13,814
Speaker 5: good at that. So it could be a way to

463
00:25:13,854 --> 00:25:16,655
Speaker 5: start if you don't want to go to a GP.

464
00:25:16,895 --> 00:25:20,695
Speaker 1: Keeping in mind that people an AI chat but for instance,

465
00:25:20,734 --> 00:25:23,494
Speaker 1: can only split out information to you after what you've

466
00:25:23,774 --> 00:25:26,574
Speaker 1: specifically asked it, so you could be very biased in

467
00:25:26,574 --> 00:25:28,654
Speaker 1: your line of questioning to AI, and it's going to

468
00:25:28,695 --> 00:25:31,534
Speaker 1: tell you what you want to know. If you could

469
00:25:31,574 --> 00:25:35,294
Speaker 1: clear up one major misconception something that you keep seeing

470
00:25:35,895 --> 00:25:39,095
Speaker 1: as a news article or a talking point on TikTok

471
00:25:39,094 --> 00:25:41,815
Speaker 1: and you go, that is just not correct. I want

472
00:25:41,854 --> 00:25:43,615
Speaker 1: to give you the opportunity. Now, what is the one

473
00:25:43,695 --> 00:25:46,815
Speaker 1: major misconception about golp ones that you'd like to clear up?

474
00:25:47,294 --> 00:25:50,215
Speaker 5: I think it's a story about how it was all

475
00:25:50,294 --> 00:25:53,734
Speaker 5: a chance discovery. I know, and we don't really know

476
00:25:53,975 --> 00:25:56,894
Speaker 5: how these medicines work on the brain or something like what.

477
00:25:57,254 --> 00:26:00,774
Speaker 5: We absolutely know how these medicines work, and it was

478
00:26:01,135 --> 00:26:05,334
Speaker 5: deliberately intended to be developed for obesity management, all the

479
00:26:05,375 --> 00:26:08,415
Speaker 5: way back to the nineties, and there's so much evidence.

480
00:26:08,655 --> 00:26:11,534
Speaker 1: Have you ever taken it yourself? Have you ever experienced

481
00:26:11,534 --> 00:26:11,894
Speaker 1: the drug?

482
00:26:12,094 --> 00:26:12,174
Speaker 3: No?

483
00:26:13,014 --> 00:26:14,054
Speaker 1: Is there a reason for that?

484
00:26:15,135 --> 00:26:17,814
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not indicated, right, I might be and I

485
00:26:18,054 --> 00:26:20,415
Speaker 5: is twenty I shouldn't be on these medicines.

486
00:26:20,935 --> 00:26:22,694
Speaker 1: We're not going to go into the specifics of the

487
00:26:22,734 --> 00:26:26,455
Speaker 1: costing of using and taking these medications, but it is

488
00:26:26,494 --> 00:26:28,694
Speaker 1: a big factor for a lot of people weighing up

489
00:26:28,734 --> 00:26:32,655
Speaker 1: whether or not they're able to access and sustain use,

490
00:26:32,935 --> 00:26:36,054
Speaker 1: is that it can be quite cost prohibitive if this

491
00:26:36,175 --> 00:26:40,215
Speaker 1: is designed to tackle a disease that plagues two thirds

492
00:26:40,254 --> 00:26:43,374
Speaker 1: of Australians, for instance. Does that frustrate you that it

493
00:26:43,774 --> 00:26:46,374
Speaker 1: is so expensive? Is that because of the way that

494
00:26:46,455 --> 00:26:49,455
Speaker 1: it's made. Is that just a marketing thing? Should it

495
00:26:49,534 --> 00:26:51,415
Speaker 1: not just be accessible for everybody?

496
00:26:51,854 --> 00:26:55,414
Speaker 5: Of course, it would be nice if accessible for everybody,

497
00:26:55,415 --> 00:26:58,494
Speaker 5: but the world doesn't work like that. And I cancer

498
00:26:58,574 --> 00:27:01,854
Speaker 5: treatments are way more expensive right, So it's also maybe

499
00:27:01,895 --> 00:27:04,254
Speaker 5: sometimes to have a little bit of a balanced dialogue

500
00:27:04,254 --> 00:27:09,295
Speaker 5: about how expensive is actually. But the price will go down, right,

501
00:27:09,415 --> 00:27:12,654
Speaker 5: and it will continue to go down because of the

502
00:27:12,774 --> 00:27:16,294
Speaker 5: larger availability. There'll be more different kinds of medications, and

503
00:27:16,334 --> 00:27:19,215
Speaker 5: that it happens like that all the time. When you

504
00:27:19,854 --> 00:27:22,935
Speaker 5: drug classes come to the market in the beginning, they're

505
00:27:22,935 --> 00:27:25,534
Speaker 5: more expensive because we do need to pay for all

506
00:27:25,614 --> 00:27:28,175
Speaker 5: the trials and everything that we did. We also need

507
00:27:28,215 --> 00:27:30,774
Speaker 5: to kind of pay for the medicines that didn't work out, right,

508
00:27:31,054 --> 00:27:33,254
Speaker 5: But it will become less expensive.

509
00:27:33,534 --> 00:27:37,655
Speaker 1: And finally, looking back, is there anything that you wish

510
00:27:37,655 --> 00:27:41,975
Speaker 1: had been handled differently as these drugs moved from research

511
00:27:42,375 --> 00:27:46,254
Speaker 1: into all the developments, looking into side effects and now

512
00:27:46,294 --> 00:27:49,094
Speaker 1: the real world spread of it, people are taking it

513
00:27:49,135 --> 00:27:51,134
Speaker 1: all across the world. Is there any point in that

514
00:27:51,215 --> 00:27:53,134
Speaker 1: timeline where you say, I wish we could have just

515
00:27:53,254 --> 00:27:55,975
Speaker 1: paused here, thought about that for a little bit longer,

516
00:27:56,375 --> 00:27:58,494
Speaker 1: or are you pretty happy with how it's progressed.

517
00:27:59,415 --> 00:28:02,695
Speaker 5: Sometimes I think about how it could have happened faster, right,

518
00:28:02,734 --> 00:28:06,214
Speaker 5: because it's taken a long time kind of get to

519
00:28:06,254 --> 00:28:09,574
Speaker 5: where we are today. But I don't think there's no

520
00:28:09,774 --> 00:28:13,494
Speaker 5: single piece I regret or nothing that we did wrong.

521
00:28:14,014 --> 00:28:17,894
Speaker 5: It could be good, I think, for to see the

522
00:28:18,294 --> 00:28:22,175
Speaker 5: evidence at the in totality, right, we tend to sort

523
00:28:22,175 --> 00:28:24,534
Speaker 5: of like I say, okay, so there's this one study

524
00:28:24,574 --> 00:28:27,455
Speaker 5: that shows this, another study that shows this, and the

525
00:28:27,494 --> 00:28:31,494
Speaker 5: whole system of drug approval are not set up to

526
00:28:31,655 --> 00:28:35,254
Speaker 5: kind of look at a medicine that has multiple benefits

527
00:28:35,294 --> 00:28:39,095
Speaker 5: at the same time. Also not the system with specialist right.

528
00:28:39,135 --> 00:28:41,815
Speaker 5: So I think many places in the world, and certainly

529
00:28:41,854 --> 00:28:45,175
Speaker 5: also here in Australia, the medical system is struggling a

530
00:28:45,215 --> 00:28:48,374
Speaker 5: little bit with these patients who then have maybe five

531
00:28:48,735 --> 00:28:51,775
Speaker 5: diseases at the same time. So that's something that maybe

532
00:28:51,815 --> 00:28:54,894
Speaker 5: we could have done differently to have more levels of

533
00:28:54,975 --> 00:28:57,855
Speaker 5: evidence within the same study, and now it gets very

534
00:28:58,295 --> 00:29:01,575
Speaker 5: scientifically nerded. But that's the only thing I can think

535
00:29:01,614 --> 00:29:03,495
Speaker 5: of other than that, you know, I think it's just

536
00:29:04,535 --> 00:29:07,894
Speaker 5: it's been important and everything we've done along the way,

537
00:29:07,975 --> 00:29:12,134
Speaker 5: and to actually have multiple pieces of evidence with really

538
00:29:12,215 --> 00:29:14,695
Speaker 5: long trial, I think that's super important.

539
00:29:15,815 --> 00:29:18,454
Speaker 1: Of course, this has been very informative, but it is

540
00:29:18,495 --> 00:29:21,854
Speaker 1: not gospel medical advice. If you've got more questions, you

541
00:29:21,935 --> 00:29:24,855
Speaker 1: need to reach out to your GP and to you

542
00:29:25,135 --> 00:29:27,415
Speaker 1: thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

543
00:29:27,495 --> 00:29:30,815
Speaker 1: us today. Hey, if this conversation has stirred up any

544
00:29:30,815 --> 00:29:34,255
Speaker 1: feelings for you, help is available. You can contact Lifeline

545
00:29:34,295 --> 00:29:38,974
Speaker 1: on thirteen eleven fourteen. A reminder the Easter Long weekend

546
00:29:39,055 --> 00:29:41,935
Speaker 1: is coming and the Quiki will be with you through

547
00:29:42,055 --> 00:29:46,255
Speaker 1: Good Friday and Easter Monday, delivering you some news headlines

548
00:29:46,295 --> 00:29:48,015
Speaker 1: so you can stay up to date with what is

549
00:29:48,055 --> 00:29:50,935
Speaker 1: happening in the world. But in saying that, you'll need

550
00:29:51,015 --> 00:29:53,015
Speaker 1: to make sure that you are following us wherever you

551
00:29:53,015 --> 00:29:55,455
Speaker 1: get your pods from, so you don't miss out. The

552
00:29:55,535 --> 00:29:58,975
Speaker 1: Quikie is produced by me Table Strano, Alaria Brophy and

553
00:29:59,094 --> 00:30:05,055
Speaker 1: Claire Murphy, with audio production by lou Hill. Mumma Mire

554
00:30:05,055 --> 00:30:08,455
Speaker 1: acknowledged the traditional owners of land and waters. This podcast

555
00:30:08,575 --> 00:30:09,255
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