WEBVTT - INBOX: The Unspoken Rules Of Where You're Allowed To Work From

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a Mother with mea podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm em Vernon.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm Michelle BATTERSWI.

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<v Speaker 2>These bizz Inbox episodes are our very own ask us anything,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's your chance to get free career advice, learn

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<v Speaker 2>how to navigate tricky colleagues, and ask a gun entrepreneur

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<v Speaker 2>like Mish not me, sorry about your small business or

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<v Speaker 2>just bit about your boss. I'll be in there for

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<v Speaker 2>that one. We'd like to hear those two. And also

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<v Speaker 2>the best part is that you can choose to be

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<v Speaker 2>completely anonymous.

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<v Speaker 3>M This week, I'll tell you if it's okay to

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<v Speaker 3>quit a job before you start, if the circumstances have changed. Plus,

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<v Speaker 3>we have a dilemma which every woman has faced at

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<v Speaker 3>some time. I bet. But first, M, I saw this

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<v Speaker 3>on TikTok the other day and I want your thoughts.

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<v Speaker 3>Is it through? Are gen z scared of the phone?

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<v Speaker 1>Gen zs are now taking classes on how to make

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<v Speaker 1>phone calls? So it's called telephobia, and it's a fear

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<v Speaker 1>or anxiety around making and receiving telephone calls. Seventy five

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<v Speaker 1>percent of them say they never answer a phone call.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is causing problems for when employers reach out

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<v Speaker 1>for interviews or gen zs have to make a phone

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<v Speaker 1>call to make a dentist appointment or something, and many

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<v Speaker 1>students struggle with phone interviews because they haven't had their

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<v Speaker 1>chance to practice.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I watched this TikTok as well, and I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like we've been having this conversation about gen z being

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<v Speaker 2>scared of phone calls for a really, really long time now,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think it boils down to, Firstly, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think it's all gen zs, Like I know some people

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<v Speaker 2>who can talk on the phone for hours, they're definitely

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<v Speaker 2>not scared. Some of them should be scared, And I

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<v Speaker 2>think it boils down to a lot of gen zs

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<v Speaker 2>getting into the workforce for the first time and actually

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<v Speaker 2>not being told how to navigate these kind of conversations.

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<v Speaker 2>Because a lot of us, in our private lives, we

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<v Speaker 2>don't on the phone. It's all just instant messaging, whether

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<v Speaker 2>it's on Facebook, Messenger, WhatsApp, or messages. So the first

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<v Speaker 2>time we actually have to have a proper formal conversation

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<v Speaker 2>is when we're interviewing for jobs. And because a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of us don't have practice calling people or like having

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<v Speaker 2>a big conversation over the phone. It's turned into this

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<v Speaker 2>weird thing of like older generations making fun of gen

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<v Speaker 2>zs for not being able to talk on the phone.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm like, you guys and teacher, so how are

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<v Speaker 2>we meant to know? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>I also just think it's like a universal generational like

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<v Speaker 3>bashing of the younger generation type thing, where it's like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>back in the day when they transition from letter writing

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<v Speaker 3>to the phone, like, were people Yeah, I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure you guys were awkward. Whoever, Like, is anyone here

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<v Speaker 2>who's listening, who's like went from letter writing to phones

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<v Speaker 2>for the first time.

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<v Speaker 3>I also feel like there are so many jobs where

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<v Speaker 3>you don't even need being able to speak on phone

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<v Speaker 3>as a skill, like you do so much from behind

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<v Speaker 3>your computer. It is written people are building companies using

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<v Speaker 3>chat GPT these days, where they're now not even writing

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<v Speaker 3>emails for themselves. I also think there's a bit of

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<v Speaker 3>everyone communicates differently anyway, just as human beings, Like some

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<v Speaker 3>people are really strong I don't even know if this

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<v Speaker 3>is the right word, like verbal communicators out loud, and

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<v Speaker 3>other people are more written. Other people are more visual,

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<v Speaker 3>Like even the way we learn, And I think as

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<v Speaker 3>a business owner or manager, it's also kind of your

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<v Speaker 3>responsibility to learn how different people work best and how

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<v Speaker 3>they like to communicate. And I also think in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of interviews, I've seen a lot of this conversation on

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<v Speaker 3>LinkedIn lately, actually people getting really shitty about like the

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<v Speaker 3>sorts of interviews that engineers are put through, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>where they have to complete live coding tasks and challengers.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait in front of people yes yes, no.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and people saying like how unfair that is because

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<v Speaker 3>they're obviously put under so much pressure and they've kind

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<v Speaker 3>of got people watching, you know, like how they're problem solving,

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<v Speaker 3>and it means there's a certain type of person that's

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<v Speaker 3>getting through that round. But you might actually be eliminating

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<v Speaker 3>some really brilliant people in the process. And I think

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<v Speaker 3>that can happen as well if you just have like

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<v Speaker 3>a rigid approach to any kind of interview. And I

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<v Speaker 3>mean I've interviewed young people before where I can sense

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<v Speaker 3>like they are fucking terrified on the phone, and I

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<v Speaker 3>try to really like look through that, like I can

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<v Speaker 3>tell this person's nervous. I can tell maybe they haven't

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<v Speaker 3>done this many times before. But do I see, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>potential in them underneath the fact that they're not really

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<v Speaker 3>like coping with the environment right now, and like actually

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<v Speaker 3>offering a bit of grace because to your point, like

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<v Speaker 3>especially the people that you know graduated school through COVID,

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<v Speaker 3>went to university through COVID, like it has affected people's

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<v Speaker 3>entry into the workforce.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, yeah, oh, that's such a good answer, because

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<v Speaker 2>that question really annoys me so much. I start yelling

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<v Speaker 2>at people. Get on the phone right now. I can

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<v Speaker 2>do it. I can show you. So we got this

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<v Speaker 2>anonymous DM on our instagram, so if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>submit any questions, please follow us at biz by Mama Mia.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's an interesting work dilemma, Mitsha. I'm not actually

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<v Speaker 2>sure what side you'll take on it, but Anonymous said,

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<v Speaker 2>recently I landed a new role. It was a great opportunity,

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<v Speaker 2>good career progression with the manager who I really resonated

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<v Speaker 2>with in the interviews. I handed in my notice at

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<v Speaker 2>my current job. However, the big boss at my new

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<v Speaker 2>role has let me know that my manager has now resigned.

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<v Speaker 2>I am really conflicted because I have already given my notice.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't go back to my previous role. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>concerned I won't have a mentor in my new role

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<v Speaker 2>and I will just have to absorb all of their

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<v Speaker 2>responsibilities and will be super overwhelmed this question. I actually

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<v Speaker 2>have no idea what this person should do, do you.

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<v Speaker 3>It obviously is playing on their mind quite a bit.

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<v Speaker 3>I think this is something that they can get ahead of, though,

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<v Speaker 3>and they can get clarity on, Like I wonder if

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<v Speaker 3>they have spoken to the hiring manager or this boss

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<v Speaker 3>and actually voiced their concerns, because I think they're very

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<v Speaker 3>valid questions for this person to ask, Like who will

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<v Speaker 3>I be reporting into now? Is you know that role

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<v Speaker 3>going to be replaced? Is there a manager in a

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<v Speaker 3>similar role that can kind of guide me and be

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<v Speaker 3>my point of contact in the meantime? Who will be

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<v Speaker 3>my point of contact? How many other people are on

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<v Speaker 3>the team, and like how is this manager's work being absorbed.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's also like a bit of a blessing

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<v Speaker 3>in the sense that this person will be starting pretty

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<v Speaker 3>close to the same time, like a manager is also

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<v Speaker 3>navigating things, and they might actually like have a bit

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<v Speaker 3>of a bond. There might be some camaraderie there as well.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>In the back of my mind. I'm also like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>they said I can't go back. I'm like wondering if

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<v Speaker 3>they actually could go back to their past job if

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<v Speaker 3>they actually wanted to. Like, I don't know if I

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<v Speaker 3>would really count that out as an option because it

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<v Speaker 3>kind of depends on the circumstances. It depends on how

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<v Speaker 3>they resigned, it depends on the relationship they have with people.

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<v Speaker 3>But like I had someone resign once and then change

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<v Speaker 3>their mind, and I was like, Yeah, no worries, you

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<v Speaker 3>can come back. It was like a situation that I

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<v Speaker 3>could understand. I think, really they just need to have

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<v Speaker 3>some conversations and it'll really put their mind at ease

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<v Speaker 3>because I think they'll probably be able to get the

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<v Speaker 3>sorts of answers that they want. And their fear might

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<v Speaker 3>be based on assumptions at the moment in terms of

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<v Speaker 3>not having that manager, but I'm assuming they also didn't

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<v Speaker 3>have a relationship with that manager as well, so like

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<v Speaker 3>it's not like that's being lost or maybe that manager

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<v Speaker 3>was the sole reason why they took the job. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>there's kind of a lot here that I don't know,

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<v Speaker 3>But I don't think it's weird for this person to

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<v Speaker 3>have conversations with the boss and the hiring manager and

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<v Speaker 3>try to get some clarity on a few things, like

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<v Speaker 3>as they're still working out their notice period, I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 3>like one hundred percent shut the door on their past

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<v Speaker 3>workplace as well, But that also depends on a lot

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<v Speaker 3>that I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's so true, because like maybe the job will

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<v Speaker 2>be better now, Like you don't know. It's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of like what ifs. But I think that's a really

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<v Speaker 2>good answer, And yeah, I would go back to my

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<v Speaker 2>workplace or even just say I'm not sure what's happening

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<v Speaker 2>with my new role. Do you mind if I extend

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<v Speaker 2>working here?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, or like, hey, something that I just could not

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<v Speaker 3>have predicted occurred with this offer, and it's no longer

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<v Speaker 3>feeling right for me, and you know the reasons why

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<v Speaker 3>I resigned, Like it depends on that.

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<v Speaker 2>This next question, I feel like I have a deeply

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<v Speaker 2>unpopular opinion on it, so I want.

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<v Speaker 3>To gain thoughts on Wait, I want to know what

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<v Speaker 3>yours is because I feel like the answer is so obvious.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, okay, no care. But anyway, if we got

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<v Speaker 2>this question and it said, I want to know if

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<v Speaker 2>it's okay to work from the hairdresser. I cannot fit

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<v Speaker 2>a three hour hair appointment in my schedule as a

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<v Speaker 2>busy single mum, and I have an appointment next week.

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<v Speaker 2>I have no meetings in that time, and we'll work

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<v Speaker 2>on email and slack the whole time in the chair.

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<v Speaker 2>But my managers have a habit of video calling for

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<v Speaker 2>a chat with questions, and I don't want to get

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<v Speaker 2>in trouble for being on camera with a head full

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<v Speaker 2>of foils, but as I'm working the whole time, is

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<v Speaker 2>it okay? So I read this and I was like, yeah, surely,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're doing your work, you can be at the hairdressers.

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<v Speaker 2>But then I did think about how her managers call

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<v Speaker 2>while she's in the chair, And firstly, no one looks

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<v Speaker 2>good at the hairdresser, So firstly they're gonna be like what,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they're gonna be like, oh, you're at the hairdressers. Personally,

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<v Speaker 2>if I were to be at the hairdressers while working,

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<v Speaker 2>I would ask my manager and just be like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't get an appointment any other time, is it

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<v Speaker 2>fine if I just go to the hairdressers while I'm

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<v Speaker 2>still like writing or working doing my work there, Because

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<v Speaker 2>it's like a really long appointment, just so if they

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<v Speaker 2>do call, they're not going to be shocked by where

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<v Speaker 2>you are. I think the jump scare of like doing

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<v Speaker 2>it without telling them you're doing it, and then them

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<v Speaker 2>seeing you on camera like that, I think that's a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a no go for me.

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<v Speaker 3>It's honestly so interesting because your perspective and even like

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<v Speaker 3>your kind of hesitancy around needing to ask permission to

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<v Speaker 3>do this has just highlighted the tension of like the

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<v Speaker 3>modern day workforce for me, Like we are currently recording

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<v Speaker 3>a podcast from our homes, you know, like we've given

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<v Speaker 3>advice on how to build a network remotely. We're all

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<v Speaker 3>in hybrid jobs where we work from home, and like

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<v Speaker 3>we're trusted to do our work. It should not matter

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<v Speaker 3>at all if you work from the hair dresser. Really, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>Like why does that matter? And it only matters if

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<v Speaker 3>people have really traditional, outdated views on what productivity looks like.

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<v Speaker 3>And it only matters if someone views productivity as sitting

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<v Speaker 3>behind your desk, Like for me to be productive, I

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<v Speaker 3>must sit in this chair. But as a society, we've

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<v Speaker 3>already like debunked that with the whole Like you can

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<v Speaker 3>work from home, you can have flexible work arrangements, Like

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<v Speaker 3>we already know that people should be trusted to be

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<v Speaker 3>able to do their job from their living room, so

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<v Speaker 3>why can they not be trusted to do their job

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<v Speaker 3>from the hairdresser, where if you're a woman and you're

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<v Speaker 3>going blonde, or maybe you're a guy, you're going to

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<v Speaker 3>be trapped there for five hours, and yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 3>really boring and I find like the hairdresser a very

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<v Speaker 3>productive place to get stuff done because you're just trapped

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<v Speaker 3>and there's really nothing else to do other than be

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<v Speaker 3>on your laptop. So I think it is one hundred

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<v Speaker 3>percent fine to work from the hairdresser. And if you've

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<v Speaker 3>got a manager who has an issue with that, it's

0:12:20.450 --> 0:12:24.929
<v Speaker 3>actually like a them problem. Sorry to any manager who

0:12:24.930 --> 0:12:28.210
<v Speaker 3>has an issue with it. I do think you should

0:12:28.250 --> 0:12:30.890
<v Speaker 3>definitely be transparent about it. I'm going to the hairdresser

0:12:30.970 --> 0:12:32.850
<v Speaker 3>on Friday. I'll be there for five hours, and my

0:12:32.970 --> 0:12:35.610
<v Speaker 3>calendar is blocked for five hours and it literally says

0:12:35.610 --> 0:12:39.290
<v Speaker 3>hair appointment. And I just won't take any meetings in

0:12:39.330 --> 0:12:42.089
<v Speaker 3>those five hours because I know, for me at the hairdresser,

0:12:42.130 --> 0:12:43.689
<v Speaker 3>I'm not going to be able to get on calls

0:12:43.690 --> 0:12:45.250
<v Speaker 3>like that's something I'm not going to be able to do,

0:12:45.530 --> 0:12:47.090
<v Speaker 3>but I'm going to be able to do a whole

0:12:47.170 --> 0:12:49.170
<v Speaker 3>bunch of other things. And so it's scheduled on a

0:12:49.250 --> 0:12:53.130
<v Speaker 3>day Fridays, where like people don't really put meetings in anyway,

0:12:53.290 --> 0:12:57.610
<v Speaker 3>you know, yeah. I just think it's like you're kind

0:12:57.610 --> 0:13:00.210
<v Speaker 3>of like feeding into the narrative as well, if like

0:13:00.290 --> 0:13:03.210
<v Speaker 3>you're hiding it from your boss, like it's making it

0:13:03.210 --> 0:13:06.010
<v Speaker 3>a bigger deal than it is. I would probably like

0:13:06.570 --> 0:13:09.090
<v Speaker 3>just check that you've got the kind of manager who like,

0:13:10.610 --> 0:13:13.450
<v Speaker 3>is it a dinosaur, I'm like gonna offend people?

0:13:14.090 --> 0:13:16.410
<v Speaker 2>So is it more like not really asking, it's more

0:13:16.490 --> 0:13:19.290
<v Speaker 2>just saying, hey, I have like a free day of

0:13:19.450 --> 0:13:21.610
<v Speaker 2>just like deep work on Friday. Some of it I'm

0:13:21.610 --> 0:13:23.650
<v Speaker 2>going to be doing at the hairdressers, just letting you.

0:13:23.610 --> 0:13:25.890
<v Speaker 3>Know yeah, or like, hey, I was planning to go

0:13:25.930 --> 0:13:28.650
<v Speaker 3>through like this is and this on Friday. Also really

0:13:28.730 --> 0:13:30.890
<v Speaker 3>need to book a hair appointment in. Is that something

0:13:30.890 --> 0:13:33.209
<v Speaker 3>you're okay with? Like just for the first time, I

0:13:33.250 --> 0:13:36.090
<v Speaker 3>would ask permission like that and then you kind of know,

0:13:36.330 --> 0:13:38.130
<v Speaker 3>all right, this person's fine with it, and then I

0:13:38.250 --> 0:13:40.610
<v Speaker 3>just continue to do that. But I would block it

0:13:40.650 --> 0:13:43.530
<v Speaker 3>in your calendar like every single time. It's not something

0:13:43.570 --> 0:13:45.530
<v Speaker 3>that you're hiding. Why would you need to hide it.

0:13:45.570 --> 0:13:48.050
<v Speaker 3>You're still productive and it's a great place to work from.

0:13:48.210 --> 0:13:52.290
<v Speaker 2>Ooh okay, I like this. Oh my god, I actually

0:13:52.330 --> 0:13:53.850
<v Speaker 2>do need a hair appointment.

0:13:53.530 --> 0:13:56.010
<v Speaker 3>So I find it funny when people have an issue

0:13:56.010 --> 0:13:57.610
<v Speaker 3>with that one. What else are you meant to do?

0:13:57.810 --> 0:14:00.250
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Maybe I'm just like a prude. Maybe like if

0:14:00.250 --> 0:14:02.330
<v Speaker 2>I were to call someone and there other hairdressers would

0:14:02.330 --> 0:14:03.610
<v Speaker 2>be like interesting.

0:14:03.970 --> 0:14:07.170
<v Speaker 3>See, but that's your condition. That's why there's this like

0:14:07.330 --> 0:14:11.850
<v Speaker 3>tension point because I think we all still battle a

0:14:11.930 --> 0:14:18.330
<v Speaker 3>little bit with traditional optics of productivity being I must

0:14:18.410 --> 0:14:22.930
<v Speaker 3>be sitted at a desk to work productively, but we've

0:14:22.970 --> 0:14:25.370
<v Speaker 3>got people sitting at coffee shops. You know, We've got

0:14:25.370 --> 0:14:28.410
<v Speaker 3>people replying to emails whilst they're on a bus. Like

0:14:28.890 --> 0:14:31.410
<v Speaker 3>it's a modern world, and like we embrace it in

0:14:31.530 --> 0:14:34.410
<v Speaker 3>so many ways, Like why can we not embrace the

0:14:34.450 --> 0:14:35.810
<v Speaker 3>hairdressers in the same way?

0:14:36.010 --> 0:14:38.250
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, Okay, that's so true. I want this

0:14:38.570 --> 0:14:41.130
<v Speaker 2>person to do the hairdresser and then tell us how

0:14:41.130 --> 0:14:43.690
<v Speaker 2>it went, and also send photos of your hair.

0:14:43.770 --> 0:14:46.610
<v Speaker 3>I want to start a trend where everyone is taking

0:14:46.650 --> 0:14:50.170
<v Speaker 3>like work from hairdresser Selfies.

0:14:51.650 --> 0:14:54.410
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for helping us clear the biz

0:14:54.410 --> 0:14:56.370
<v Speaker 2>in box. If you have a work question, please send

0:14:56.410 --> 0:14:58.650
<v Speaker 2>it our way. You can find a link to submit

0:14:58.690 --> 0:15:00.810
<v Speaker 2>your questions in our show notes and you can put

0:15:00.810 --> 0:15:03.290
<v Speaker 2>your name on it, or you can be completely anonymous.

0:15:03.330 --> 0:15:04.570
<v Speaker 2>It's completely your choice.

0:15:04.810 --> 0:15:07.290
<v Speaker 3>And if you missed any of our episodes, just scroll

0:15:07.370 --> 0:15:09.450
<v Speaker 3>back in your feed. We'll be back in the busy

0:15:09.610 --> 0:15:10.730
<v Speaker 3>box next week.

0:15:11.090 --> 0:15:25.410
<v Speaker 2>Bye Cia. Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land

0:15:25.450 --> 0:15:27.530
<v Speaker 2>and waters that this podcast is recorded on