Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother with mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm em Vernon.
Speaker 3: And I'm Michelle BATTERSWI.
Speaker 2: These bizz Inbox episodes are our very own ask us anything,
Speaker 2: so it's your chance to get free career advice, learn
Speaker 2: how to navigate tricky colleagues, and ask a gun entrepreneur
Speaker 2: like Mish not me, sorry about your small business or
Speaker 2: just bit about your boss. I'll be in there for
Speaker 2: that one. We'd like to hear those two. And also
Speaker 2: the best part is that you can choose to be
Speaker 2: completely anonymous.
Speaker 3: M This week, I'll tell you if it's okay to
Speaker 3: quit a job before you start, if the circumstances have changed. Plus,
Speaker 3: we have a dilemma which every woman has faced at
Speaker 3: some time. I bet. But first, M, I saw this
Speaker 3: on TikTok the other day and I want your thoughts.
Speaker 3: Is it through? Are gen z scared of the phone?
Speaker 1: Gen zs are now taking classes on how to make
Speaker 1: phone calls? So it's called telephobia, and it's a fear
Speaker 1: or anxiety around making and receiving telephone calls. Seventy five
Speaker 1: percent of them say they never answer a phone call.
Speaker 1: But this is causing problems for when employers reach out
Speaker 1: for interviews or gen zs have to make a phone
Speaker 1: call to make a dentist appointment or something, and many
Speaker 1: students struggle with phone interviews because they haven't had their
Speaker 1: chance to practice.
Speaker 2: Okay, I watched this TikTok as well, and I feel
Speaker 2: like we've been having this conversation about gen z being
Speaker 2: scared of phone calls for a really, really long time now,
Speaker 2: and I think it boils down to, Firstly, I don't
Speaker 2: think it's all gen zs, Like I know some people
Speaker 2: who can talk on the phone for hours, they're definitely
Speaker 2: not scared. Some of them should be scared, And I
Speaker 2: think it boils down to a lot of gen zs
Speaker 2: getting into the workforce for the first time and actually
Speaker 2: not being told how to navigate these kind of conversations.
Speaker 2: Because a lot of us, in our private lives, we
Speaker 2: don't on the phone. It's all just instant messaging, whether
Speaker 2: it's on Facebook, Messenger, WhatsApp, or messages. So the first
Speaker 2: time we actually have to have a proper formal conversation
Speaker 2: is when we're interviewing for jobs. And because a lot
Speaker 2: of us don't have practice calling people or like having
Speaker 2: a big conversation over the phone. It's turned into this
Speaker 2: weird thing of like older generations making fun of gen
Speaker 2: zs for not being able to talk on the phone.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, you guys and teacher, so how are
Speaker 2: we meant to know? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I also just think it's like a universal generational like
Speaker 3: bashing of the younger generation type thing, where it's like, well,
Speaker 3: back in the day when they transition from letter writing
Speaker 3: to the phone, like, were people Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sure you guys were awkward. Whoever, Like, is anyone here
Speaker 2: who's listening, who's like went from letter writing to phones
Speaker 2: for the first time.
Speaker 3: I also feel like there are so many jobs where
Speaker 3: you don't even need being able to speak on phone
Speaker 3: as a skill, like you do so much from behind
Speaker 3: your computer. It is written people are building companies using
Speaker 3: chat GPT these days, where they're now not even writing
Speaker 3: emails for themselves. I also think there's a bit of
Speaker 3: everyone communicates differently anyway, just as human beings, Like some
Speaker 3: people are really strong I don't even know if this
Speaker 3: is the right word, like verbal communicators out loud, and
Speaker 3: other people are more written. Other people are more visual,
Speaker 3: Like even the way we learn, And I think as
Speaker 3: a business owner or manager, it's also kind of your
Speaker 3: responsibility to learn how different people work best and how
Speaker 3: they like to communicate. And I also think in terms
Speaker 3: of interviews, I've seen a lot of this conversation on
Speaker 3: LinkedIn lately, actually people getting really shitty about like the
Speaker 3: sorts of interviews that engineers are put through, for example,
Speaker 3: where they have to complete live coding tasks and challengers.
Speaker 2: Wait in front of people yes yes, no.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and people saying like how unfair that is because
Speaker 3: they're obviously put under so much pressure and they've kind
Speaker 3: of got people watching, you know, like how they're problem solving,
Speaker 3: and it means there's a certain type of person that's
Speaker 3: getting through that round. But you might actually be eliminating
Speaker 3: some really brilliant people in the process. And I think
Speaker 3: that can happen as well if you just have like
Speaker 3: a rigid approach to any kind of interview. And I
Speaker 3: mean I've interviewed young people before where I can sense
Speaker 3: like they are fucking terrified on the phone, and I
Speaker 3: try to really like look through that, like I can
Speaker 3: tell this person's nervous. I can tell maybe they haven't
Speaker 3: done this many times before. But do I see, you know,
Speaker 3: potential in them underneath the fact that they're not really
Speaker 3: like coping with the environment right now, and like actually
Speaker 3: offering a bit of grace because to your point, like
Speaker 3: especially the people that you know graduated school through COVID,
Speaker 3: went to university through COVID, like it has affected people's
Speaker 3: entry into the workforce.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, oh, that's such a good answer, because
Speaker 2: that question really annoys me so much. I start yelling
Speaker 2: at people. Get on the phone right now. I can
Speaker 2: do it. I can show you. So we got this
Speaker 2: anonymous DM on our instagram, so if you want to
Speaker 2: submit any questions, please follow us at biz by Mama Mia.
Speaker 2: And it's an interesting work dilemma, Mitsha. I'm not actually
Speaker 2: sure what side you'll take on it, but Anonymous said,
Speaker 2: recently I landed a new role. It was a great opportunity,
Speaker 2: good career progression with the manager who I really resonated
Speaker 2: with in the interviews. I handed in my notice at
Speaker 2: my current job. However, the big boss at my new
Speaker 2: role has let me know that my manager has now resigned.
Speaker 2: I am really conflicted because I have already given my notice.
Speaker 2: I can't go back to my previous role. And I'm
Speaker 2: concerned I won't have a mentor in my new role
Speaker 2: and I will just have to absorb all of their
Speaker 2: responsibilities and will be super overwhelmed this question. I actually
Speaker 2: have no idea what this person should do, do you.
Speaker 3: It obviously is playing on their mind quite a bit.
Speaker 3: I think this is something that they can get ahead of, though,
Speaker 3: and they can get clarity on, Like I wonder if
Speaker 3: they have spoken to the hiring manager or this boss
Speaker 3: and actually voiced their concerns, because I think they're very
Speaker 3: valid questions for this person to ask, Like who will
Speaker 3: I be reporting into now? Is you know that role
Speaker 3: going to be replaced? Is there a manager in a
Speaker 3: similar role that can kind of guide me and be
Speaker 3: my point of contact in the meantime? Who will be
Speaker 3: my point of contact? How many other people are on
Speaker 3: the team, and like how is this manager's work being absorbed.
Speaker 3: I think there's also like a bit of a blessing
Speaker 3: in the sense that this person will be starting pretty
Speaker 3: close to the same time, like a manager is also
Speaker 3: navigating things, and they might actually like have a bit
Speaker 3: of a bond. There might be some camaraderie there as well.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: In the back of my mind. I'm also like, well,
Speaker 3: they said I can't go back. I'm like wondering if
Speaker 3: they actually could go back to their past job if
Speaker 3: they actually wanted to. Like, I don't know if I
Speaker 3: would really count that out as an option because it
Speaker 3: kind of depends on the circumstances. It depends on how
Speaker 3: they resigned, it depends on the relationship they have with people.
Speaker 3: But like I had someone resign once and then change
Speaker 3: their mind, and I was like, Yeah, no worries, you
Speaker 3: can come back. It was like a situation that I
Speaker 3: could understand. I think, really they just need to have
Speaker 3: some conversations and it'll really put their mind at ease
Speaker 3: because I think they'll probably be able to get the
Speaker 3: sorts of answers that they want. And their fear might
Speaker 3: be based on assumptions at the moment in terms of
Speaker 3: not having that manager, but I'm assuming they also didn't
Speaker 3: have a relationship with that manager as well, so like
Speaker 3: it's not like that's being lost or maybe that manager
Speaker 3: was the sole reason why they took the job. You know,
Speaker 3: there's kind of a lot here that I don't know,
Speaker 3: But I don't think it's weird for this person to
Speaker 3: have conversations with the boss and the hiring manager and
Speaker 3: try to get some clarity on a few things, like
Speaker 3: as they're still working out their notice period, I wouldn't
Speaker 3: like one hundred percent shut the door on their past
Speaker 3: workplace as well, But that also depends on a lot
Speaker 3: that I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true, because like maybe the job will
Speaker 2: be better now, Like you don't know. It's a lot
Speaker 2: of like what ifs. But I think that's a really
Speaker 2: good answer, And yeah, I would go back to my
Speaker 2: workplace or even just say I'm not sure what's happening
Speaker 2: with my new role. Do you mind if I extend
Speaker 2: working here?
Speaker 3: Yeah, or like, hey, something that I just could not
Speaker 3: have predicted occurred with this offer, and it's no longer
Speaker 3: feeling right for me, and you know the reasons why
Speaker 3: I resigned, Like it depends on that.
Speaker 2: This next question, I feel like I have a deeply
Speaker 2: unpopular opinion on it, so I want.
Speaker 3: To gain thoughts on Wait, I want to know what
Speaker 3: yours is because I feel like the answer is so obvious.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, no care. But anyway, if we got
Speaker 2: this question and it said, I want to know if
Speaker 2: it's okay to work from the hairdresser. I cannot fit
Speaker 2: a three hour hair appointment in my schedule as a
Speaker 2: busy single mum, and I have an appointment next week.
Speaker 2: I have no meetings in that time, and we'll work
Speaker 2: on email and slack the whole time in the chair.
Speaker 2: But my managers have a habit of video calling for
Speaker 2: a chat with questions, and I don't want to get
Speaker 2: in trouble for being on camera with a head full
Speaker 2: of foils, but as I'm working the whole time, is
Speaker 2: it okay? So I read this and I was like, yeah, surely,
Speaker 2: if you're doing your work, you can be at the hairdressers.
Speaker 2: But then I did think about how her managers call
Speaker 2: while she's in the chair, And firstly, no one looks
Speaker 2: good at the hairdresser, So firstly they're gonna be like what,
Speaker 2: and then they're gonna be like, oh, you're at the hairdressers. Personally,
Speaker 2: if I were to be at the hairdressers while working,
Speaker 2: I would ask my manager and just be like, hey,
Speaker 2: I can't get an appointment any other time, is it
Speaker 2: fine if I just go to the hairdressers while I'm
Speaker 2: still like writing or working doing my work there, Because
Speaker 2: it's like a really long appointment, just so if they
Speaker 2: do call, they're not going to be shocked by where
Speaker 2: you are. I think the jump scare of like doing
Speaker 2: it without telling them you're doing it, and then them
Speaker 2: seeing you on camera like that, I think that's a
Speaker 2: bit of a no go for me.
Speaker 3: It's honestly so interesting because your perspective and even like
Speaker 3: your kind of hesitancy around needing to ask permission to
Speaker 3: do this has just highlighted the tension of like the
Speaker 3: modern day workforce for me, Like we are currently recording
Speaker 3: a podcast from our homes, you know, like we've given
Speaker 3: advice on how to build a network remotely. We're all
Speaker 3: in hybrid jobs where we work from home, and like
Speaker 3: we're trusted to do our work. It should not matter
Speaker 3: at all if you work from the hair dresser. Really, yes,
Speaker 3: Like why does that matter? And it only matters if
Speaker 3: people have really traditional, outdated views on what productivity looks like.
Speaker 3: And it only matters if someone views productivity as sitting
Speaker 3: behind your desk, Like for me to be productive, I
Speaker 3: must sit in this chair. But as a society, we've
Speaker 3: already like debunked that with the whole Like you can
Speaker 3: work from home, you can have flexible work arrangements, Like
Speaker 3: we already know that people should be trusted to be
Speaker 3: able to do their job from their living room, so
Speaker 3: why can they not be trusted to do their job
Speaker 3: from the hairdresser, where if you're a woman and you're
Speaker 3: going blonde, or maybe you're a guy, you're going to
Speaker 3: be trapped there for five hours, and yeah, it's a
Speaker 3: really boring and I find like the hairdresser a very
Speaker 3: productive place to get stuff done because you're just trapped
Speaker 3: and there's really nothing else to do other than be
Speaker 3: on your laptop. So I think it is one hundred
Speaker 3: percent fine to work from the hairdresser. And if you've
Speaker 3: got a manager who has an issue with that, it's
Speaker 3: actually like a them problem. Sorry to any manager who
Speaker 3: has an issue with it. I do think you should
Speaker 3: definitely be transparent about it. I'm going to the hairdresser
Speaker 3: on Friday. I'll be there for five hours, and my
Speaker 3: calendar is blocked for five hours and it literally says
Speaker 3: hair appointment. And I just won't take any meetings in
Speaker 3: those five hours because I know, for me at the hairdresser,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to be able to get on calls
Speaker 3: like that's something I'm not going to be able to do,
Speaker 3: but I'm going to be able to do a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of other things. And so it's scheduled on a
Speaker 3: day Fridays, where like people don't really put meetings in anyway,
Speaker 3: you know, yeah. I just think it's like you're kind
Speaker 3: of like feeding into the narrative as well, if like
Speaker 3: you're hiding it from your boss, like it's making it
Speaker 3: a bigger deal than it is. I would probably like
Speaker 3: just check that you've got the kind of manager who like,
Speaker 3: is it a dinosaur, I'm like gonna offend people?
Speaker 2: So is it more like not really asking, it's more
Speaker 2: just saying, hey, I have like a free day of
Speaker 2: just like deep work on Friday. Some of it I'm
Speaker 2: going to be doing at the hairdressers, just letting you.
Speaker 3: Know yeah, or like, hey, I was planning to go
Speaker 3: through like this is and this on Friday. Also really
Speaker 3: need to book a hair appointment in. Is that something
Speaker 3: you're okay with? Like just for the first time, I
Speaker 3: would ask permission like that and then you kind of know,
Speaker 3: all right, this person's fine with it, and then I
Speaker 3: just continue to do that. But I would block it
Speaker 3: in your calendar like every single time. It's not something
Speaker 3: that you're hiding. Why would you need to hide it.
Speaker 3: You're still productive and it's a great place to work from.
Speaker 2: Ooh okay, I like this. Oh my god, I actually
Speaker 2: do need a hair appointment.
Speaker 3: So I find it funny when people have an issue
Speaker 3: with that one. What else are you meant to do?
Speaker 2: Oh? Maybe I'm just like a prude. Maybe like if
Speaker 2: I were to call someone and there other hairdressers would
Speaker 2: be like interesting.
Speaker 3: See, but that's your condition. That's why there's this like
Speaker 3: tension point because I think we all still battle a
Speaker 3: little bit with traditional optics of productivity being I must
Speaker 3: be sitted at a desk to work productively, but we've
Speaker 3: got people sitting at coffee shops. You know, We've got
Speaker 3: people replying to emails whilst they're on a bus. Like
Speaker 3: it's a modern world, and like we embrace it in
Speaker 3: so many ways, Like why can we not embrace the
Speaker 3: hairdressers in the same way?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Okay, that's so true. I want this
Speaker 2: person to do the hairdresser and then tell us how
Speaker 2: it went, and also send photos of your hair.
Speaker 3: I want to start a trend where everyone is taking
Speaker 3: like work from hairdresser Selfies.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for helping us clear the biz
Speaker 2: in box. If you have a work question, please send
Speaker 2: it our way. You can find a link to submit
Speaker 2: your questions in our show notes and you can put
Speaker 2: your name on it, or you can be completely anonymous.
Speaker 2: It's completely your choice.
Speaker 3: And if you missed any of our episodes, just scroll
Speaker 3: back in your feed. We'll be back in the busy
Speaker 3: box next week.
Speaker 2: Bye Cia. Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land
Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on