WEBVTT - Two Weddings & A Guilt Trip 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.727 that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 0:00:23.807 --> 0:00:26.767 MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about. 0:00:26.847 --> 0:00:30.407 On Monday, the third of June. I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm. 0:00:30.207 --> 0:00:33.847 MEA Friedman and I'm Jemma Bath filling in for Jesse Stevens. 0:00:33.927 --> 0:00:36.087 I usually host one of our other podcasts. 0:00:35.727 --> 0:00:39.007 Through Crime Conversations. Welcome Jane you, thanks for having me. 0:00:39.087 --> 0:00:40.767 We're going to be hearing you a few times while 0:00:40.847 --> 0:00:45.287 Jesse's away. Yes on the show today, the uninvited guests 0:00:45.327 --> 0:00:46.847 at Britney Higgins's. 0:00:46.367 --> 0:00:48.967 Wedding were the paparazzi helicopters. 0:00:49.407 --> 0:00:53.007 Also why you're seeing embarrassing teen photos of very famous 0:00:53.007 --> 0:00:56.487 Australians all over your Instagram and why we love women 0:00:56.527 --> 0:00:58.207 supporting women until that. 0:00:58.207 --> 0:01:02.527 Woman is Angelina Jolie. But first, mea Friedman. In case 0:01:02.567 --> 0:01:04.647 you missed it, on this podcast, we like to stay 0:01:04.687 --> 0:01:07.047 across what's happening with very old men, and in the 0:01:07.087 --> 0:01:09.967 past few days there is some exciting breaking old news, 0:01:10.367 --> 0:01:12.487 both happy and sad for the old men in question. 0:01:12.687 --> 0:01:15.287 First of all, ninety three year old Rupert Murdoch got 0:01:15.287 --> 0:01:18.407 married for the fifth time, and seventy seven year old 0:01:18.447 --> 0:01:21.767 Donald Trump is officially a criminal, having been found guilty 0:01:22.167 --> 0:01:24.487 on all thirty four charges in one of several criminal 0:01:24.487 --> 0:01:27.327 cases that could send him to prison. Thank God, Jemma 0:01:27.367 --> 0:01:29.567 Barth is here to break this down, because jam you 0:01:29.607 --> 0:01:32.847 are also the news editor at Mama Mia. Who is 0:01:32.967 --> 0:01:35.567 the lucky lady who will get to be stepmother to 0:01:35.727 --> 0:01:39.567 children almost her own age? And will Donald Trump go 0:01:39.607 --> 0:01:41.847 to jail? Please God say yes? And can he still 0:01:41.847 --> 0:01:43.407 become president? Please God say no. 0:01:43.687 --> 0:01:47.087 Elena Zukhova is the lucky lady who has married into 0:01:47.087 --> 0:01:49.447 the Murdoch family. She is sixty seven. She is a 0:01:49.487 --> 0:01:54.287 retired Russian molecular biologist, which I think is pretty damn cool. 0:01:54.287 --> 0:01:57.007 Well, that's impressive, but I'm not buying that she's lucky 0:01:57.007 --> 0:02:01.207 to be marrying into the has nobody watched succession around 0:02:01.247 --> 0:02:01.647 this date. 0:02:02.367 --> 0:02:04.687 She met Murdoch at a party hosted by one of 0:02:04.767 --> 0:02:08.167 his ex wives and they've been together since last year, 0:02:08.287 --> 0:02:10.367 short engagement, happily married. 0:02:10.607 --> 0:02:12.687 Why does he have a better social life than me? 0:02:12.807 --> 0:02:15.087 And he's ninety three? I can't remember the last time 0:02:15.087 --> 0:02:17.407 I went to a party, i'd met someone new and excited. 0:02:17.407 --> 0:02:18.607 I met a new spouse. 0:02:18.647 --> 0:02:20.967 The number one question or people always ask is what's 0:02:21.007 --> 0:02:23.487 with the weddings? Group like, we're all very happy that 0:02:23.567 --> 0:02:25.767 you still have a vital and interesting love life. 0:02:26.127 --> 0:02:26.807 We're fine with. 0:02:26.767 --> 0:02:28.407 That, but what's with the weddings? 0:02:28.447 --> 0:02:31.207 The kids must be all the time just being like, dad, 0:02:31.527 --> 0:02:32.727 do you have to put a ring on it? 0:02:32.767 --> 0:02:35.687 Don't you think? I was quite shocked by the photos 0:02:35.687 --> 0:02:38.047 in how old he looked. He went through a phase 0:02:38.087 --> 0:02:41.127 when a couple of wives ago with Wendy Deng where 0:02:41.567 --> 0:02:45.047 she made him dye his hair like mahogany, that funny 0:02:45.047 --> 0:02:47.887 color that men dye their hair sometimes a hole. You 0:02:47.927 --> 0:02:50.687 were the one that suggested a few wives ago also 0:02:50.927 --> 0:02:53.487 that the reason he keeps getting engaged and getting married 0:02:53.687 --> 0:02:57.967 is because it means that you can put really clear 0:02:58.007 --> 0:03:01.127 parameters around the money. So no doubt there's a strict 0:03:01.127 --> 0:03:04.247 prenuptial whereas if he's just you know, having one night 0:03:04.287 --> 0:03:08.807 stands and having a complication situationship, it can get very 0:03:08.807 --> 0:03:10.207 complicated financially. 0:03:10.287 --> 0:03:12.207 I think that's probably exactly it, and it would be 0:03:12.287 --> 0:03:13.927 keeping lawyers very busy. 0:03:14.007 --> 0:03:15.287 I just think the man likes a party. 0:03:15.367 --> 0:03:17.807 He loves love guys, he loves love. What about that 0:03:17.847 --> 0:03:19.647 Trump man? H Trump? 0:03:19.767 --> 0:03:23.607 Okay, so last week we found out that Trump was 0:03:23.647 --> 0:03:27.167 guilty of thirty four counts of so many, so many 0:03:27.207 --> 0:03:30.567 counts of falsifying business records. 0:03:30.687 --> 0:03:31.847 What that actually means. 0:03:31.687 --> 0:03:35.287 Is he covered up the affair he had. 0:03:35.087 --> 0:03:37.607 With Stormy Daniels. It wasn't that he had an affair. 0:03:37.647 --> 0:03:40.447 It wasn't that he gave her hush money. It was 0:03:40.487 --> 0:03:43.647 the fact that he hid the hush money and falsified records. 0:03:43.647 --> 0:03:45.727 We had an affair, paid her off to be quiet, 0:03:45.767 --> 0:03:46.887 and then tried to cover it up. 0:03:46.927 --> 0:03:48.447 And then it was to cover up that got him 0:03:48.607 --> 0:03:51.007 exactly because he only paid her off when he was 0:03:51.087 --> 0:03:54.607 running for president. It's not like after they slept together. 0:03:55.127 --> 0:03:58.087 If your eyes are glazing about all these court cases 0:03:58.127 --> 0:04:01.407 and convictions and charges, the other time he was found 0:04:01.407 --> 0:04:04.767 guilty was a few months ago, and that was in 0:04:04.807 --> 0:04:08.687 a case about being a rapist, a civil case brought 0:04:08.767 --> 0:04:12.607 by Jen Carroll, who she says Trump raped. 0:04:12.247 --> 0:04:15.247 Her in a change room at Bergdoff's. I think it was. 0:04:15.687 --> 0:04:18.767 Many years ago. So it's quite interesting when you think 0:04:18.807 --> 0:04:22.007 about of all the things he's done wrong. The two 0:04:22.047 --> 0:04:26.047 cases where he's been convicted, Stormy Daniels and Agene Carroll, 0:04:26.247 --> 0:04:29.447 Like it's two women who have I would love to 0:04:29.447 --> 0:04:30.847 say brought him down, But he's not going to go 0:04:30.967 --> 0:04:32.967 Is he going to go to jail? No, I mean 0:04:33.087 --> 0:04:35.847 they're saying he could. With each count, you can face 0:04:35.887 --> 0:04:38.207 up to four years in prison. I highly doubt that's 0:04:38.247 --> 0:04:38.887 going to happen. 0:04:39.007 --> 0:04:41.127 Everybody says it's not there, so that if he wasn't 0:04:41.167 --> 0:04:43.247 Donald Trump, he wouldn't be going to jail because it's, 0:04:43.287 --> 0:04:45.767 you know, it's his first conviction. Ironic as that might seem. 0:04:46.047 --> 0:04:47.527 He's got the best lawyers in the world. It's a 0:04:47.567 --> 0:04:50.087 nonviolent offense. He's not going to go to jail. And 0:04:50.247 --> 0:04:53.407 disappointingly because on Friday when this news came through, for 0:04:53.447 --> 0:04:56.207 a while there was this sort of euphoria almost for 0:04:56.207 --> 0:04:56.887 a moment. 0:04:56.647 --> 0:04:58.767 Of like ding Dong l Witch's day, guilty. Guilty. 0:04:58.807 --> 0:05:02.447 There's never been a convicted felon running for president before. 0:05:03.007 --> 0:05:05.687 But as has been shown in the days since, I mean, 0:05:05.727 --> 0:05:09.447 Trump always overturns political norms, like he can prove a 0:05:09.487 --> 0:05:12.127 thing wrong, and his popularity is in fact searched and 0:05:12.167 --> 0:05:13.807 so he probably is not going to prison and is 0:05:13.847 --> 0:05:15.327 still going to run, and he probably will win. 0:05:15.447 --> 0:05:17.247 And I in fact think that if he went to prison, 0:05:17.447 --> 0:05:19.727 his followers would quite like that because it would make 0:05:19.807 --> 0:05:20.687 him look really good in there. 0:05:20.727 --> 0:05:23.367 Off well, it buys into the conspiracy theory. So he 0:05:23.487 --> 0:05:24.287 says it's a fix. 0:05:24.607 --> 0:05:28.727 This was a disgrace. This was a rigged trial by 0:05:28.727 --> 0:05:33.327 a conflicted judge who was corrupted. There's a riged trial 0:05:33.367 --> 0:05:37.567 and disgrace. They wouldn't give us a venue change. We 0:05:37.567 --> 0:05:42.647 were at five percent or six percent in this district, 0:05:42.687 --> 0:05:43.367 in this area. 0:05:44.447 --> 0:05:45.287 This was a. 0:05:45.207 --> 0:05:49.367 Rigged, disgraceful trial. That the real verdict is going to 0:05:49.407 --> 0:05:53.727 be November fifth by the people, and they know what 0:05:53.847 --> 0:05:56.127 happened here, and everybody knows what happened here. 0:05:56.647 --> 0:05:59.727 It plays very clearly into the people who believe that 0:05:59.807 --> 0:06:02.407 this is all part of a conspiracy claim. 0:06:02.407 --> 0:06:04.487 If you from the Quickie did a brilliant episode on 0:06:04.527 --> 0:06:06.647 the Trump verdict, you can listen to that via the 0:06:06.687 --> 0:06:07.687 link in the show notes. 0:06:10.847 --> 0:06:12.447 There was another wedding over the weekend. 0:06:12.647 --> 0:06:15.247 Britney Higgins got married on the Gold Coast to her 0:06:15.327 --> 0:06:19.847 partner David Schiraz. She wore ature gown by an Australian designer. 0:06:20.287 --> 0:06:23.007 She said, I do at a loveliest station in the 0:06:23.007 --> 0:06:26.327 Corimbin Valley. She had everything you can imagine at a 0:06:26.367 --> 0:06:32.087 beautiful Australian wedding except perhaps paparazzi photos. She basically got 0:06:32.087 --> 0:06:35.887 the celebrity treatment. There were photos in the papers over 0:06:35.927 --> 0:06:40.407 the weekend of her vendors coming in, her cake being delivered. 0:06:41.287 --> 0:06:44.647 She was using umbrellas to shield her dress. To jog 0:06:44.687 --> 0:06:48.767 your memory. Britney Higgins is famous in quotation marks in 0:06:48.807 --> 0:06:52.647 Australia because she alleges that she was raped in Parliament 0:06:52.647 --> 0:06:55.807 House in twenty nineteen by a colleague. That is her 0:06:55.847 --> 0:06:57.007 claim to fame. 0:06:57.207 --> 0:06:59.727 Yeah. I was reading about how the Daily Mail paid 0:06:59.727 --> 0:07:04.167 fifteen hundred dollars to hire a helicopter to get aerial 0:07:04.207 --> 0:07:07.367 shots of the wedding, and I was like, that's a 0:07:07.407 --> 0:07:11.647 pretty interesting thing that we are but sending tabloid and 0:07:11.647 --> 0:07:16.127 paparazzi photographers to photograph the wedding of a rape victim. 0:07:16.567 --> 0:07:20.847 I understand that she is now for better and worse worse, 0:07:20.967 --> 0:07:25.007 she would say, a public figure, and that there is interest. 0:07:25.927 --> 0:07:27.967 What I'm interested to understand is do you think that 0:07:28.127 --> 0:07:32.047 interest is everybody wants a good thing to happen to her, 0:07:32.167 --> 0:07:35.527 and everybody wants to cheer on hopefully this new chapter 0:07:35.607 --> 0:07:38.927 in her life. Or do you think there's something a 0:07:38.927 --> 0:07:41.287 bit more malevolent about the interest. 0:07:41.527 --> 0:07:43.127 I think it's a bit of column a bit of 0:07:43.127 --> 0:07:45.047 colum b. I mean, I know, I was excited to 0:07:45.047 --> 0:07:46.767 see her name in a headline for a good reason, 0:07:46.967 --> 0:07:49.767 for a change. I was like, oh, lovely, Britney got married, 0:07:49.887 --> 0:07:51.687 and that's honestly all I thought about it. Then I 0:07:51.687 --> 0:07:53.647 looked at the headlines a bit closer, and I noticed 0:07:53.727 --> 0:07:56.967 that there seems to be a bit of snark behind 0:07:56.967 --> 0:07:59.567 the way some people are covering this news in their 0:07:59.607 --> 0:08:01.847 headlines and in their articles themselves. 0:08:02.207 --> 0:08:04.687 The snark that I noticed because agreed, I saw the 0:08:04.727 --> 0:08:07.727 picture shed on her official channels, and then by as 0:08:07.767 --> 0:08:11.767 is obviously traditional millennial weddings, everybody waits for her to 0:08:11.767 --> 0:08:14.847 post and then they can all post it. So Brittany 0:08:14.887 --> 0:08:18.767 and David posted her husband David beautiful pictures, and then 0:08:19.167 --> 0:08:20.847 various people who are at the wedding posted too. 0:08:20.727 --> 0:08:23.207 And I was like, oh, who was there? I married 0:08:23.247 --> 0:08:25.207 my best friend. She did and it was glorious. 0:08:25.247 --> 0:08:28.047 But one of the things that I noticed immediately in 0:08:28.087 --> 0:08:30.647 all the coverage, and it's obviously clicking really well if 0:08:30.647 --> 0:08:32.927 you ever want to see, Like obviously we work in 0:08:32.967 --> 0:08:34.847 digital media, we understand this, but I'm sure you all 0:08:34.887 --> 0:08:37.607 do too. If Britney Higgins's wedding is still at the 0:08:37.607 --> 0:08:39.047 top of the Daily Mail and still at the top 0:08:39.087 --> 0:08:40.527 of all the news sites a couple of days after 0:08:40.567 --> 0:08:43.327 it's happened, it means that people are interested and they're clicking. 0:08:43.607 --> 0:08:45.967 And one of the things that you'll see in particularly 0:08:46.047 --> 0:08:48.327 the Mail and the Australian coverage, I have to say, 0:08:48.847 --> 0:08:51.207 is a lot of mention of how much everything costs. 0:08:51.327 --> 0:08:53.967 So there's lots of use of the word lavish in everything. 0:08:54.247 --> 0:08:56.487 There are quotes about how much the dress must have been. 0:08:56.727 --> 0:08:58.487 There are quotes about how much it costs to hire 0:08:58.527 --> 0:09:01.367 that vineyard, there are quotes about how much it costs 0:09:01.367 --> 0:09:03.807 to hire you know, the cars and the secure. 0:09:04.487 --> 0:09:08.207 Because every wedding is expensive, and every celebrity wedding. 0:09:07.967 --> 0:09:11.447 Is well she is it a celebrity, That's the question. 0:09:11.967 --> 0:09:14.167 I think that the people who are big supporters of 0:09:14.167 --> 0:09:17.087 Brittany and let's not pretend that this news story and 0:09:17.127 --> 0:09:21.167 all its various twists and turns and court cases and 0:09:21.207 --> 0:09:25.607 countercourt cases and libel actions and defamation trials and civil suits. 0:09:25.647 --> 0:09:28.847 Has not consumed the news media for the past or 0:09:29.007 --> 0:09:32.367 five years. Almost she has become a public figure, and 0:09:32.407 --> 0:09:35.367 I think that those who have always supported and rooted 0:09:35.367 --> 0:09:38.247 for her, like you Jem, were like, this is gorgeous. 0:09:38.247 --> 0:09:40.007 She's just living a life, getting on with her life. 0:09:40.007 --> 0:09:42.847 This is an important milestone, Hurrah. I hate to give 0:09:42.887 --> 0:09:46.367 credence to the commenters, but you can see the tone 0:09:46.407 --> 0:09:48.447 that's leading to the snark about the money. 0:09:48.527 --> 0:09:51.607 The dog whistle is about. What it is about the fact. 0:09:51.327 --> 0:09:55.727 That she famously got settlements from the Australian government after 0:09:56.407 --> 0:10:00.887 her trial collapsed, and that she's spending this money on 0:10:00.927 --> 0:10:03.887 this lavish wedding and this lavish lifestyle that she and 0:10:03.967 --> 0:10:07.607 David are leading. And I think that is what's behind 0:10:07.607 --> 0:10:10.047 the snarky tone out. 0:10:09.847 --> 0:10:14.607 Like she's this incredibly rich woman that has taken millions 0:10:14.647 --> 0:10:16.527 upon millions from the Australian government. 0:10:16.887 --> 0:10:19.207 I want to just tell you what she received. She 0:10:19.247 --> 0:10:19.767 had a two. 0:10:19.647 --> 0:10:22.007 Point four million dollar settlement, which does sound like a 0:10:22.007 --> 0:10:24.367 lot of money, but when you actually break that down, 0:10:24.527 --> 0:10:29.407 it's four hundred thousand dollars for hurt distress, humiliation. It's 0:10:29.487 --> 0:10:32.887 one point four to eight million in earning capacity. 0:10:32.967 --> 0:10:34.527 Two hundred lost earning. 0:10:34.287 --> 0:10:37.367 Capacity, earning capacity, a bunch of money for medical, past 0:10:37.407 --> 0:10:40.207 and future domestic assistance, and then two hundred and forty 0:10:40.207 --> 0:10:43.927 five thousand in legal costs. So when you actually break 0:10:43.967 --> 0:10:46.247 it all down, like, yes, she received a big payment, 0:10:46.247 --> 0:10:47.487 but why shouldn't. 0:10:47.087 --> 0:10:50.967 She have well, And also it's worth noting that this 0:10:51.007 --> 0:10:55.087 is still going on. There's a claim from Linda Reynolds, 0:10:55.127 --> 0:10:56.927 her former boss, to try and get some of that 0:10:56.967 --> 0:10:59.087 money back as far as I understand it, right, so 0:10:59.127 --> 0:11:02.447 it's still not settled. What's interesting is I was examining 0:11:02.487 --> 0:11:04.807 my own response to this, right, and I was, as 0:11:04.847 --> 0:11:06.767 I say, it was all over my feed from these 0:11:06.847 --> 0:11:10.327 beautiful pictures, and I thought, how lovely. But there was 0:11:10.367 --> 0:11:12.287 a bit of me when I then saw the pap 0:11:12.327 --> 0:11:16.287 shots of them having to shield themselves under umbrellas, which 0:11:16.327 --> 0:11:18.447 is very what soap stars and movie stars do. 0:11:18.727 --> 0:11:22.367 Interestingly, though, whole we are very familiar with seeing those 0:11:22.407 --> 0:11:26.247 pictures from the days when women's magazines like Women's Day 0:11:26.327 --> 0:11:30.047 and Women's Weekly or People magazine would get exclusives. So 0:11:30.367 --> 0:11:33.767 I think we need to just check our muscle memory, 0:11:33.847 --> 0:11:37.327 because it used to be that those umbrellas signified was 0:11:37.407 --> 0:11:40.807 and fair enough that they have been paid and they 0:11:40.847 --> 0:11:43.607 need to protect the exclusive of the media channel that 0:11:43.647 --> 0:11:47.407 they've sold their wedding to. Now that's not as far 0:11:47.407 --> 0:11:49.567 as we know, No, it could be. I don't think 0:11:49.567 --> 0:11:53.327 that's what's happening here. This is more just about literally 0:11:53.407 --> 0:11:58.647 the privacy of a woman whose privacy has been I mean, 0:11:58.727 --> 0:12:01.167 my god, not only the things that we've heard in 0:12:01.247 --> 0:12:04.887 court and heard her have to recount under evidence, but 0:12:04.967 --> 0:12:09.687 also the leaking of text messages, phone records. It's quite 0:12:09.807 --> 0:12:11.367 extraordinary what's happened to her. 0:12:11.567 --> 0:12:13.727 You're write me that when I see the black umbrellas 0:12:13.727 --> 0:12:16.607 and I see all that stuff, I think, oh, celebrity treatment. 0:12:17.127 --> 0:12:19.207 You're absolutely right, it's not that. But there was a 0:12:19.207 --> 0:12:21.727 bit of me examining my own reaction that was like, 0:12:21.807 --> 0:12:24.327 I wonder, why, when you've been subject to all of 0:12:24.367 --> 0:12:27.647 that scrutiny that you just explained, you might not choose 0:12:27.807 --> 0:12:31.087 to sneak off in inverted commas and have some kind 0:12:31.087 --> 0:12:34.047 of very private, quiet wedding, because surely the last thing 0:12:34.087 --> 0:12:35.127 you'd want was all that attention. 0:12:35.567 --> 0:12:37.447 But then I kind of had to check myself and 0:12:37.567 --> 0:12:38.527 I the same thing. 0:12:38.887 --> 0:12:41.407 But I had to check myself, which I often do 0:12:41.647 --> 0:12:43.607 when I feel myself feeling, you know, one of those 0:12:43.687 --> 0:12:46.287 kind of judgy little knots that you get sometimes when 0:12:46.287 --> 0:12:49.887 you're scrolling social media, And I was like, why the 0:12:49.927 --> 0:12:54.247 fuck should she Why shouldn't she get what every young 0:12:54.367 --> 0:12:56.927 woman who wants that kind of wedding wants, which is 0:12:57.447 --> 0:13:00.047 to be able to celebrate it with everybody and exactly 0:13:00.087 --> 0:13:01.967 the way she wants it to do, and celebrate her 0:13:01.967 --> 0:13:04.927 love publicly. And in a way it's a radical act 0:13:04.967 --> 0:13:09.527 because we'd like to define Britney Higgins and maybe other 0:13:09.767 --> 0:13:12.687 rape victims too, by their worst day, by the worst 0:13:12.727 --> 0:13:15.167 thing that happened to them, by what we used to 0:13:15.207 --> 0:13:17.567 love to shame women for. You know that there's some 0:13:17.647 --> 0:13:19.887 kind of shame attached to what she should hide away 0:13:19.927 --> 0:13:23.007 happened to her. So when I was examining my reaction, 0:13:23.087 --> 0:13:26.367 I was like, this is actually brilliant that she's She's 0:13:26.447 --> 0:13:28.327 just living her life. And it's the same with this 0:13:28.367 --> 0:13:31.207 move to France, which is also weaponized by the press 0:13:31.247 --> 0:13:32.687 that don't like her as being like. 0:13:32.927 --> 0:13:35.407 They've run away to a lavish chateau. If you say 0:13:35.407 --> 0:13:37.327 the word chateau. It always sounds very lavish. 0:13:37.367 --> 0:13:39.567 Actually looks more like a crumbling farmhouse in the country, 0:13:39.567 --> 0:13:43.007 but still chateau. And she, you know, has posted about 0:13:43.007 --> 0:13:45.927 that and about their life and what it looks like now. 0:13:46.567 --> 0:13:49.287 And it's such a positive thing really to be able 0:13:49.327 --> 0:13:51.887 to go, you know what, I survived all that shit. 0:13:52.207 --> 0:13:54.647 I survived it and now I'm living my life and 0:13:54.687 --> 0:13:56.167 I will not be defined by it. 0:13:56.727 --> 0:13:58.967 She has lived the last few years. 0:13:59.247 --> 0:14:00.407 Only doing things like. 0:14:00.407 --> 0:14:03.607 Cork cases, appearing in the media, doing all this stuff. 0:14:03.847 --> 0:14:05.567 Why on earth would she not have a big wedding. 0:14:05.567 --> 0:14:06.887 I actually think it would have been a bit sad 0:14:06.927 --> 0:14:09.007 or if she had a small wedding in heat Away, 0:14:09.047 --> 0:14:10.327 because this is her moment. 0:14:10.127 --> 0:14:11.487 To actually celebrate herself. 0:14:11.767 --> 0:14:20.967 Why wouldn't Shell. 0:14:18.047 --> 0:14:20.287 Thirty six months now? If you've seen this number on 0:14:20.327 --> 0:14:22.807 your socials this week shared by a lot of influential 0:14:22.887 --> 0:14:27.007 parents like Zoe Foster, Blake, Guy Sbastian, Kate Richie, Steph, 0:14:27.047 --> 0:14:30.727 Claire Smith, and Megan Gail, which I haven't to be honest, 0:14:30.767 --> 0:14:33.287 which shows that my algorithm knows I don't consume much 0:14:33.327 --> 0:14:37.607 parenting content. But after our conversation this morning, a lot 0:14:37.607 --> 0:14:39.527 of people were talking about it, so we wanted to 0:14:39.527 --> 0:14:42.127 cover it on the show today. You might, like me, 0:14:42.367 --> 0:14:44.407 be wondering what it's all about, And there was a 0:14:44.447 --> 0:14:47.807 Muma Mere story about this over the weekend which explained it. 0:14:48.367 --> 0:14:51.767 All of these people are sharing throwback photos of themselves 0:14:52.207 --> 0:14:55.807 around the age of thirteen to throw their support behind 0:14:55.807 --> 0:14:58.167 a new campaign to raise the age at which kids 0:14:58.207 --> 0:15:02.007 can legally access social media. At the moment, the age 0:15:02.007 --> 0:15:04.447 that you can get social media is thirteen, although it's 0:15:04.447 --> 0:15:06.647 not like applying for a driver's license or trying to 0:15:06.687 --> 0:15:09.447 get into a pub. You don't need any proof of 0:15:09.487 --> 0:15:12.047 your age. You just have to say when your birthday is. 0:15:12.127 --> 0:15:15.167 So that seems a little problematic and a little bit 0:15:15.207 --> 0:15:19.047 porous as far as boundaries go. But the campaign aims 0:15:19.087 --> 0:15:22.927 to buy teens thirty six months or three more years 0:15:23.047 --> 0:15:27.407 away from social media to help safeguard their digital future. 0:15:27.927 --> 0:15:29.647 So it would raise the minimum age to have a 0:15:29.647 --> 0:15:32.967 social media account up to sixteen, which is interestingly the 0:15:33.007 --> 0:15:36.167 same age that you can legally start having sex. The 0:15:36.167 --> 0:15:38.367 new movement is called thirty six months, as I said, 0:15:38.367 --> 0:15:40.407 and it believes that kids need more time to develop 0:15:40.487 --> 0:15:44.287 healthy and secure identities before they're exposed to the minefield 0:15:44.407 --> 0:15:47.927 of social media. I've signed this petition. I saw it 0:15:48.087 --> 0:15:50.927 of you, yeah, I did. My kids are out the 0:15:50.927 --> 0:15:53.727 other side of it. Like for me, the horse has 0:15:53.767 --> 0:15:57.807 bolted very much. And my kids are you know, twenty six, 0:15:58.527 --> 0:16:03.327 eighteen and almost sixteen. But my eldest children were not 0:16:03.647 --> 0:16:07.607 on social when they were really young, and they really 0:16:07.807 --> 0:16:11.167 benefited from not is that because you stopped them or 0:16:11.207 --> 0:16:13.847 they weren't interesting. It just didn't really exist. I was 0:16:13.887 --> 0:16:16.087 more I mean, as anyone, but obviously not Luca because 0:16:16.127 --> 0:16:18.207 he's twenty six. He wasn't very interested because he was 0:16:18.247 --> 0:16:19.727 a boy and he was twenty six, and it was 0:16:19.767 --> 0:16:22.287 pre Instagram pretty much, or Instagram was just kind of 0:16:22.287 --> 0:16:25.767 starting back then. Certainly Instagram wasn't a very interesting place 0:16:25.807 --> 0:16:30.247 for boys anyway. And then my daughter there's also Snapchat, 0:16:30.327 --> 0:16:32.927 and of course there is Instagram. She's definitely been affected 0:16:32.967 --> 0:16:36.247 by Instagram and the people who are most passionate about 0:16:36.287 --> 0:16:38.447 the need for the age to be lifted. Interestingly, as 0:16:38.487 --> 0:16:42.967 a lot of teenagers who are older and who've said, oh, yeah, 0:16:43.167 --> 0:16:45.967 you know, it's really bad because it's not just the 0:16:46.007 --> 0:16:51.047 imagery that you're exposed to, it's also the you know, 0:16:51.367 --> 0:16:54.407 every time you put a photo up or someone puts 0:16:54.407 --> 0:16:56.487 a photo up of you, it's all the commentary that 0:16:56.567 --> 0:17:00.847 happens underneath that. And for girls, it's this incredible emphasis 0:17:00.887 --> 0:17:04.447 on appearance. It's the use of face tune and what 0:17:04.487 --> 0:17:06.887 that does, scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and looking at 0:17:06.887 --> 0:17:11.327 images of people that don't exist. And then there's really 0:17:11.327 --> 0:17:14.447 insidious things like on Snapchat there's a feature called snapmaps, 0:17:14.447 --> 0:17:16.887 which I've talked about lots of times, which a lot 0:17:16.967 --> 0:17:19.647 of parents would have no idea about, because most teenagers 0:17:19.767 --> 0:17:24.567 use Snapchat as just their form of messaging. The way 0:17:24.607 --> 0:17:28.087 snap maps works, everybody that you follow you can see 0:17:28.087 --> 0:17:30.367 where they are on a map of your area. So 0:17:30.807 --> 0:17:32.847 you can see when everybody's at someone's house and you 0:17:32.887 --> 0:17:35.327 didn't get invited. You can see when everybody's at a party. 0:17:35.727 --> 0:17:38.007 You've got situations where girls will be like, oh no, 0:17:38.087 --> 0:17:40.407 I can't come over. Mom says I've got to stay 0:17:40.447 --> 0:17:42.487 at home, and then you see everybody's over at Sophie's 0:17:42.487 --> 0:17:46.207 house on snap maps. And the idea of this campaign 0:17:46.647 --> 0:17:49.607 is that kids at age thirteen just aren't equipped to 0:17:49.727 --> 0:17:51.847 deal with all of that. I mean, adults aren't equipped 0:17:51.847 --> 0:17:54.967 to deal with it. Holly you've got kids in the 0:17:55.007 --> 0:17:58.447 crosshairs of this age. Why are you surprised that I 0:17:58.487 --> 0:18:00.967 signed the petition and will use it. I thought that 0:18:01.087 --> 0:18:06.887 you were on my team. Maybe I've switched teams. Tell me. 0:18:09.327 --> 0:18:12.687 A bit facetious, because so my daughter's fourteen. She got 0:18:12.687 --> 0:18:15.327 her first phone when she went to high school. I 0:18:15.407 --> 0:18:17.967 was relatively proud of myself for holding out to high 0:18:18.007 --> 0:18:20.247 school because in the particularly when we lived in Sydney, 0:18:20.287 --> 0:18:21.727 it was certainly the case. There are lots of primary 0:18:21.727 --> 0:18:25.127 school kids who had phones. And where all this is 0:18:25.167 --> 0:18:27.607 coming from, well not where it's coming from. But part 0:18:27.647 --> 0:18:29.967 of the movement for this change is to do with 0:18:30.007 --> 0:18:32.527 that Jonathan Hype book. He's written a book called The 0:18:32.567 --> 0:18:35.607 Anxious Generation, and we talked about an essay that he'd 0:18:35.607 --> 0:18:38.127 written in The Atlantic called end the Phone based Childhood Now, 0:18:38.287 --> 0:18:41.847 which was about how basically smartphones of ruined degeneration right, 0:18:41.967 --> 0:18:44.447 and one of his calls to action in there is 0:18:44.487 --> 0:18:47.447 that parents need to band together. That's a lot of 0:18:47.487 --> 0:18:51.727 what this campaign is about. It's about normalizing and mobilizing 0:18:51.887 --> 0:18:54.687 parental groups to be able to go because what happens 0:18:54.727 --> 0:18:57.367 is your kid says I want a phone, I want snapchat, whatever, 0:18:57.727 --> 0:19:00.527 and you say no, and they say everybody's got it, 0:19:00.567 --> 0:19:02.527 and if I don't have it, I'll be ostracized. And 0:19:02.567 --> 0:19:06.247 in often cases that's relatively true. But what Height argues 0:19:06.367 --> 0:19:09.727 is the only way to change that apart from these 0:19:09.727 --> 0:19:13.647 systemic changes that we're talking about, like proper age gating 0:19:13.847 --> 0:19:16.887 and raising the age and tech companies taking responsibility for 0:19:16.967 --> 0:19:19.647 their irresponsible algorithms and all those things. But he's saying, 0:19:19.647 --> 0:19:22.887 at a grassroots level, you have to convince other parents 0:19:22.887 --> 0:19:25.727 to get on board with you and be like, Okay, none. 0:19:25.607 --> 0:19:28.567 Of us will buy a phone. It's not fair. And 0:19:28.607 --> 0:19:29.527 that's why i'm parents. 0:19:29.527 --> 0:19:31.767 And that's interesting because when I joke and say I 0:19:31.767 --> 0:19:35.007 thought you're on my team, it's not because I don't agree. 0:19:35.407 --> 0:19:37.447 I think smartphones have ruined all of us to be 0:19:37.487 --> 0:19:42.487 honest and politics and democracy and social discourse and many 0:19:42.527 --> 0:19:45.367