WEBVTT - The Ultimate Betrayal: Hannah Grundy's Deepfake Nightmare 0:00:09.925 --> 0:00:13.085 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.885 --> 0:00:16.845 Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.885 --> 0:00:18.485 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:18.725 --> 0:00:20.125 I was terrified all the time. 0:00:20.205 --> 0:00:21.725 You know, there's times where I'm meant to be at 0:00:21.765 --> 0:00:24.525 school by myself on the weekend, maybe to check. 0:00:24.325 --> 0:00:27.005 Something or be on some kind of function or something. 0:00:27.045 --> 0:00:30.325 I wouldn't go. We bought cameras for the house. I 0:00:30.365 --> 0:00:33.005 wore an Apple Watch that would tell Chris. 0:00:32.845 --> 0:00:34.765 When I arrived to school and when I got home 0:00:35.325 --> 0:00:37.645 it was summer, and I wouldn't give the windows open, 0:00:37.765 --> 0:00:39.765 just in case I was in a different room because 0:00:40.165 --> 0:00:43.765 the things that Andy had wrote about me were so graphic. 0:00:52.125 --> 0:00:55.925 From MoMA Mia, you're listening to No Filter. I'm Kate Langbrook, 0:00:56.325 --> 0:00:59.645 and that is the voice of one of the bravest 0:00:59.685 --> 0:01:05.125 women I have ever spoken to, Hannah Grundy. Hannah's story 0:01:05.205 --> 0:01:09.645 starts somewhere familiar for a lot of us. Early days 0:01:09.645 --> 0:01:13.445 of UNI, late nights out, making new friends over drinking games, 0:01:14.085 --> 0:01:16.765 or maybe you were pulling long shifts at casual jobs 0:01:17.285 --> 0:01:20.765 but forming friendships with colleagues into the early hours of 0:01:20.805 --> 0:01:24.245 the morn. Well, that was Hannah Grundy's life when she 0:01:24.485 --> 0:01:28.685 started studying at Sydney UNI over a decade ago, but 0:01:29.445 --> 0:01:33.805 she could never have imagined that those friendships would ultimately 0:01:33.925 --> 0:01:38.085 lead to the horrific unraveling of her life and the 0:01:38.205 --> 0:01:42.045 lives of dozens small women, many of them her friends. 0:01:43.325 --> 0:01:47.405 Hannah's nightmare, and it was a waking nightmare, began in 0:01:47.405 --> 0:01:53.525 August twenty twenty two when she stumbled upon violent degrading 0:01:54.125 --> 0:02:01.085 AI generated pornographic images of herself. These fake images had 0:02:01.125 --> 0:02:08.885 been posted on truly disturbing websites alongside graphic polls encouraging 0:02:09.685 --> 0:02:15.925 hairiness acts. The website also included her full name, her suburb, 0:02:16.245 --> 0:02:21.805 her Instagram handle. As Hannah and her partner Chris dove 0:02:21.925 --> 0:02:26.925 deeper into the site, they discovered more women they knew, 0:02:27.285 --> 0:02:34.645 friends and colleagues, and realized this wasn't random. Determined to 0:02:34.725 --> 0:02:39.325 uncover the source, they embarked on their own investigation, only 0:02:39.365 --> 0:02:43.685 to uncover the person behind it all was one of 0:02:43.725 --> 0:02:49.725 their closest friends. This story feels almost unreal. It's like 0:02:49.845 --> 0:02:54.245 something out of a dark thriller. Yet for nearly three years, 0:02:55.005 --> 0:03:00.445 Hannah and Chris live this piecing together each twisted detail, 0:03:00.645 --> 0:03:04.725 fighting against the faceless world of the Internet. And the 0:03:04.805 --> 0:03:09.805 unchecked power of AI. Hannah's story is a stark reminder 0:03:09.805 --> 0:03:13.365 of the damage anonymity and advanced technology can cause in 0:03:13.405 --> 0:03:17.925 the wrong hands. But more than that, it's a story 0:03:18.005 --> 0:03:23.885 of extraordinary resilience. What struck me most about Hannah was 0:03:23.925 --> 0:03:30.685 her unwavering strength, her courage, her relentless pursuit of justice, 0:03:31.645 --> 0:03:38.085 a powerful testament to personal and legal perseverance. And because 0:03:38.125 --> 0:03:41.925 Hannah is a school teacher, I had to start today's 0:03:41.965 --> 0:03:48.005 interview on my best behavior. Good afternoon, miss Grundy. 0:03:48.885 --> 0:03:52.365 Good afternoon. Oh gosh, I haven't heard that for a 0:03:52.365 --> 0:03:53.005 while in class. 0:03:53.045 --> 0:03:55.965 To be honest, are you a first name teacher or 0:03:55.965 --> 0:03:56.805 a surname teacher? 0:03:56.805 --> 0:03:59.485 So I definitely a sturname teacher. But the girls don't. 0:03:59.245 --> 0:04:02.685 Often say the good afternoon, missus Grundy anymore. 0:04:02.845 --> 0:04:09.645 No, No, they're too resentful, they're too tired. Can you 0:04:09.885 --> 0:04:13.005 take me back in time to a place called the 0:04:13.005 --> 0:04:18.445 Manning Bar where something wonderful happened with you increase? Yeah. 0:04:18.565 --> 0:04:23.045 Look, I had just moved up to Sydney from Wollongong. 0:04:23.085 --> 0:04:23.885 I was very young. 0:04:25.445 --> 0:04:27.205 I had worked in bars for a couple of years 0:04:27.205 --> 0:04:29.165 down there, and so I thought it would be nice 0:04:29.205 --> 0:04:32.045 for me to work in Manning Bar because I could 0:04:32.045 --> 0:04:35.245 make some friends in Sydney that way, and that's pretty 0:04:35.285 --> 0:04:37.485 much where my core social group has come from. And 0:04:37.525 --> 0:04:40.285 when I was at Manning Bar, I met my partner Chris, 0:04:40.645 --> 0:04:42.885 and he was another bartender there, and we're going on 0:04:43.085 --> 0:04:44.365 I think thirteen years now. 0:04:44.605 --> 0:04:48.005 So okay, so you were both were you both students 0:04:48.045 --> 0:04:49.925 at the time and it was the UNI bar? 0:04:50.405 --> 0:04:52.365 Yeah, so were both students at Sydney Uni. 0:04:52.485 --> 0:04:54.525 I was taking signs at that point and he was 0:04:54.565 --> 0:04:58.325 taking engineering and maths, so our paths probably wouldn't have 0:04:58.325 --> 0:04:59.365 crossed otherwise. 0:05:00.565 --> 0:05:03.325 So very lucky to have worked there. 0:05:04.285 --> 0:05:08.245 You increase. Was it a love at first sight or 0:05:08.445 --> 0:05:10.285 was it you were hanging out in a group and 0:05:10.325 --> 0:05:13.205 then you kind of went I think he might like me. 0:05:14.125 --> 0:05:16.565 Look, he actually kept coming to the bar when I 0:05:16.645 --> 0:05:19.005 was working to put in his resume as he just 0:05:19.165 --> 0:05:22.085 moved up from Blue Blue Mountains, but the resume still 0:05:22.085 --> 0:05:23.685 said the Blue Mountains, so I kept. 0:05:23.485 --> 0:05:24.325 Putting it in the bin. 0:05:25.765 --> 0:05:30.685 It was silly, but he so wanted to work there 0:05:30.725 --> 0:05:35.125 that he and he just moved. So he eventually said 0:05:35.165 --> 0:05:37.565 he would work for free, and the bar manager said 0:05:37.565 --> 0:05:38.685 all right, then get him in. 0:05:39.165 --> 0:05:43.685 Really he is now, you said, the Manning Bar became 0:05:43.805 --> 0:05:49.325 such a one of those pivotal places like Central Perk. 0:05:49.605 --> 0:05:52.725 You know, it sounds like you all hung out and 0:05:52.765 --> 0:05:57.365 you made amazing lifelong friends. Can you tell me a 0:05:57.365 --> 0:05:59.645 little bit about your group from there? 0:06:00.085 --> 0:06:02.845 Yeah, I think you know, working in a bar, you 0:06:02.925 --> 0:06:05.445 end up working on the days where everyone else is 0:06:05.485 --> 0:06:08.365 going out. So you miss a Friday night, you missed 0:06:08.365 --> 0:06:09.805 the Saturday night, miss. 0:06:09.605 --> 0:06:10.485 All of the good nights. 0:06:10.645 --> 0:06:13.325 So when you work with a group of very young 0:06:13.365 --> 0:06:16.325 people that are your age at the bar, you always 0:06:16.365 --> 0:06:18.485 hang out together, so you go out for drinks afterwards, 0:06:18.565 --> 0:06:20.925 you stay back for drinks at the workplace. You know, 0:06:21.285 --> 0:06:23.485 Newtown is such a cool place to be and it's 0:06:23.525 --> 0:06:26.485 open all night. We would just hang out together. So 0:06:26.605 --> 0:06:30.165 we were a really really strong group of ten or 0:06:30.205 --> 0:06:35.565 fifteen people, and birthdays, we went on holidays together the 0:06:35.605 --> 0:06:36.725 whole time I wasn't Manning. 0:06:36.765 --> 0:06:39.165 That was just my core social group those kind of 0:06:39.165 --> 0:06:42.365 formative years. They are your best friends, so we hang 0:06:42.405 --> 0:06:44.045 out for all. 0:06:43.885 --> 0:06:46.005 Of our big occasions, even though our lives kind of 0:06:46.045 --> 0:06:47.765 went in separate directions. 0:06:47.845 --> 0:06:50.605 Yeah, and it's interesting because you and Chris ended up 0:06:50.645 --> 0:06:54.845 becoming a couple, and sometimes when that happens, you kind 0:06:54.885 --> 0:06:58.045 of move away a little bit from your single friends 0:06:58.125 --> 0:07:02.525 or from those friends that you met when you were single. 0:07:02.645 --> 0:07:04.565 But that didn't happen with you, guys. You kind of 0:07:04.605 --> 0:07:06.245 stayed tight with a core. 0:07:06.885 --> 0:07:07.045 Look. 0:07:07.125 --> 0:07:09.845 Yeah, we stayed very tight. I think it because we're 0:07:09.845 --> 0:07:12.365 all in different parts of our lives. So I guess 0:07:12.685 --> 0:07:14.685 some of us got married, and then some of us 0:07:14.685 --> 0:07:17.445 had babies, and some of us just stayed single and 0:07:17.445 --> 0:07:18.445 did all sorts of things. 0:07:18.485 --> 0:07:20.525 So it was almost like a family. 0:07:20.685 --> 0:07:23.005 You just if you saw one of them, even if 0:07:23.045 --> 0:07:25.445 you hadn't seen them for six months, seven months, it 0:07:25.525 --> 0:07:27.885 was like you hadn't had any time past. 0:07:29.245 --> 0:07:34.885 And so you and Chrease have. You're living your best lives, 0:07:35.125 --> 0:07:39.285 You've just bought a house, You're really embedded as a couple, 0:07:41.165 --> 0:07:44.685 and then do you get a strange message from someone. 0:07:45.085 --> 0:07:46.925 I had been getting a couple of strange things on 0:07:47.245 --> 0:07:49.725 all of my social media's and then they're kind of 0:07:50.365 --> 0:07:52.685 They've been closed for ten years since I became a teacher, 0:07:52.925 --> 0:07:56.805 and I started getting more random messages from men. But 0:07:56.885 --> 0:07:58.525 I just ignored them because I thought that's what it 0:07:58.605 --> 0:08:01.925 is to be a girl on the internet you just ignored. 0:08:02.525 --> 0:08:04.205 But I do remember saying to Chris, I think my 0:08:04.285 --> 0:08:08.445 email's turned up somewhere, or something has happened, something has happened, 0:08:08.485 --> 0:08:09.125 my name's come up. 0:08:09.125 --> 0:08:12.245 So because this is what was the nature of those messages. 0:08:12.805 --> 0:08:17.205 They were sexual or they were creepy, and they acted 0:08:17.285 --> 0:08:19.845 like they knew me. And there was a couple that 0:08:19.925 --> 0:08:22.525 had photos of me in them that were just taking 0:08:22.565 --> 0:08:27.685 off my account but like menacing. But right still, they 0:08:27.685 --> 0:08:30.485 didn't have enough in them for me to think it 0:08:30.565 --> 0:08:34.165 wasn't just that I had turned up somewhere and these 0:08:34.165 --> 0:08:35.325 were just random creeps. 0:08:35.365 --> 0:08:36.685 So I just deleted them straight away. 0:08:36.725 --> 0:08:38.765 It was kind of a this used to happen when 0:08:38.765 --> 0:08:42.205 my Facebook was open, ah, And so I got an 0:08:42.245 --> 0:08:44.405 email and it went to my spam folder. And this 0:08:44.525 --> 0:08:47.325 is in around twenty twenty two, it might've been twenty 0:08:47.365 --> 0:08:49.925 twenty one at the very end. And it just was 0:08:49.965 --> 0:08:53.045 a forward from another email to a woman who I 0:08:53.085 --> 0:08:55.885 won't say her name, and it said that there were 0:08:55.885 --> 0:08:59.525 pictures of her online and that he could help figure 0:08:59.525 --> 0:09:01.245 out who it was if we went to the police. 0:09:01.685 --> 0:09:03.605 And all mine was was just a forward of that, 0:09:03.685 --> 0:09:05.365 and it said this is happening. 0:09:05.005 --> 0:09:05.525 To you too. 0:09:05.565 --> 0:09:07.085 Hammer. Oh. 0:09:07.325 --> 0:09:11.365 I just thought that was so random that I didn't 0:09:11.405 --> 0:09:11.965 do anything. 0:09:12.045 --> 0:09:15.205 And then I kept getting I got another one and 0:09:15.245 --> 0:09:17.445 I ignored that too, And then the one that really 0:09:17.525 --> 0:09:20.205 kind of got me to act was one that was 0:09:20.205 --> 0:09:20.965 addressed to me. 0:09:21.885 --> 0:09:23.765 How much longer after the first one. 0:09:23.925 --> 0:09:27.485 I'd ignored them for about three months, it was only 0:09:27.845 --> 0:09:29.005 two at that point. 0:09:29.725 --> 0:09:31.725 But they just they didn't give me anything to do. 0:09:32.125 --> 0:09:34.885 They said, you know, if you have a police complaint, 0:09:35.045 --> 0:09:36.085 I will talk to the police. 0:09:36.125 --> 0:09:36.605 But I didn't. 0:09:36.605 --> 0:09:37.525 I didn't know what anything they. 0:09:37.485 --> 0:09:38.165 Were talking about. 0:09:38.725 --> 0:09:42.045 So the one that made me act it was addressed 0:09:42.125 --> 0:09:45.365 directly to me, and it said that a man was 0:09:45.365 --> 0:09:48.445 posting pictures of me online. It had a link in 0:09:48.485 --> 0:09:52.005 it and it said the above link contains disturbing material. 0:09:52.285 --> 0:09:56.565 Might beware. And I got that when I was home alone. 0:09:56.605 --> 0:09:57.725 And I know not to click a. 0:09:57.685 --> 0:09:59.965 Link from Suing. We've all learned that. 0:10:00.205 --> 0:10:03.605 Yeah, I just waited for my partner to get home 0:10:04.005 --> 0:10:04.925 until we opened it. 0:10:05.165 --> 0:10:06.165 We both looked at it. 0:10:06.325 --> 0:10:08.805 We sat with it for a second and we thought, look, 0:10:08.845 --> 0:10:11.285 best not to click that link. But if we just 0:10:11.485 --> 0:10:13.685 put the link into Google and search it, then that's 0:10:13.685 --> 0:10:17.005 a bit safer, and so when we did that, I mean, 0:10:17.085 --> 0:10:21.725 I'm you know, I still think it was I still 0:10:21.725 --> 0:10:23.605 thought it was fake, you know, I just I had 0:10:23.605 --> 0:10:26.445 no idea and kind of Chris went into the computer 0:10:26.525 --> 0:10:29.365 room and he did that, and I'm waiting there really 0:10:29.765 --> 0:10:34.005 like so shocked, and I just remember him. He turned 0:10:34.005 --> 0:10:36.765 the iPad to me and he. 0:10:36.805 --> 0:10:39.085 Just scrolled through and. 0:10:39.525 --> 0:10:42.045 It's a forum based kind of website, so it's post 0:10:42.045 --> 0:10:45.485 after post, and there was just like he would have 0:10:45.565 --> 0:10:50.085 easily done ten or fifteen photos of me of you. Yeah, 0:10:50.125 --> 0:10:51.485 pornographic photos of me. 0:10:51.605 --> 0:10:55.005 Yeah, so not photos of you, and yet photos of. 0:10:54.925 --> 0:10:59.605 You, Yeah, hardcore porn, degrading porn, violent porn of me. 0:11:00.565 --> 0:11:02.725 And then yeah, my face had been kind of superimposed 0:11:02.765 --> 0:11:06.205 on the women in them. 0:11:06.485 --> 0:11:12.845 So in that moment and after, what is that that 0:11:13.045 --> 0:11:17.365 is between you and Chris and the computer? Is it disbelief? 0:11:18.645 --> 0:11:20.885 I don't think it was disbelief because there were so 0:11:21.045 --> 0:11:27.125 many right pay real fear because it was immediately obvious 0:11:27.245 --> 0:11:32.045 that someone had spent hours and hours and hours doing it. 0:11:32.245 --> 0:11:36.645 You know, some of them were really pathetic efforts at photoshop, 0:11:36.845 --> 0:11:39.885 and then some of them are convincing AI And so 0:11:40.045 --> 0:11:44.245 this person had obviously spent many, many, many nights, and 0:11:44.285 --> 0:11:46.045 that's just on the first look of what we saw 0:11:46.445 --> 0:11:48.805 doing it, and so I was just, I think, really 0:11:48.845 --> 0:11:50.405 really scared at first. 0:11:51.205 --> 0:11:53.765 What did you do? What did you decide to do? 0:11:54.645 --> 0:11:58.925 Did you spend the night in discussing it or like what? 0:12:00.045 --> 0:12:02.445 That has got to be one of the most radical 0:12:02.565 --> 0:12:06.765 shifts in mood and one of those moments in which 0:12:06.765 --> 0:12:09.885 you know that your life is radically shifting. Course. 0:12:10.205 --> 0:12:12.885 Yeah, yeah, it definitely was, because look, I just started 0:12:12.925 --> 0:12:13.645 back at school that. 0:12:13.685 --> 0:12:15.765 Term and everything was going. 0:12:15.565 --> 0:12:19.725 So well for us, and it just crashed down on 0:12:19.805 --> 0:12:24.285 us like a ton of bricks. So I guess after 0:12:24.365 --> 0:12:27.605 i'd seen I think maybe that first page of posts 0:12:27.645 --> 0:12:30.685 the thread was ten to twelve pages at that point, 0:12:30.725 --> 0:12:33.645 it got larger and all sorts of other things came up. 0:12:33.845 --> 0:12:35.845 I just saw that one page and that many and 0:12:35.885 --> 0:12:38.205 I had to come into a different room because I 0:12:38.365 --> 0:12:41.965 just said, if I see any more of that, I 0:12:42.005 --> 0:12:44.925 think I would break down. I need to not see 0:12:44.965 --> 0:12:47.125 myself in those positions. I cannot deal with that. 0:12:47.205 --> 0:12:48.405 So I came in here. 0:12:48.485 --> 0:12:51.725 I came into the lounge room still freaking out. Chris 0:12:51.765 --> 0:12:54.485 went through it a bit more. I guess what we 0:12:54.605 --> 0:12:57.925 decided to do. We both kind of I guess, I 0:12:57.965 --> 0:12:59.005 don't know what we would say. 0:13:01.205 --> 0:13:03.725 We just wanted to be able to do something about it. 0:13:03.965 --> 0:13:07.645 So what ended up happening is Chris went through it 0:13:07.725 --> 0:13:11.165 enough that we stilled to notice that the same person 0:13:11.285 --> 0:13:14.005 was posting our friends as well from Manning Bar. 0:13:14.605 --> 0:13:17.645 So there were how many girls that you worked with 0:13:17.725 --> 0:13:18.845 at Manning Bar were. 0:13:18.725 --> 0:13:20.965 Also This is a hard one. 0:13:20.965 --> 0:13:22.325 I'm in the in the images. 0:13:22.205 --> 0:13:27.485 To the police had around sixty women on it. Twenty 0:13:27.565 --> 0:13:30.685 six went to court and we were in on what 0:13:30.805 --> 0:13:33.365 happened with us. But the ones that I saw that 0:13:33.405 --> 0:13:36.965 were my friends. There was two very close friends of mine, 0:13:37.085 --> 0:13:39.325 and then there was quite a few people that had 0:13:39.325 --> 0:13:41.725 either come to the bar who worked briefly at the bar, 0:13:42.365 --> 0:13:43.005 but they. 0:13:44.285 --> 0:13:46.765 Didn't show up as much. It was mainly two of 0:13:46.805 --> 0:13:47.845 my friends that were. 0:13:48.205 --> 0:13:51.445 So you worked out pretty quickly that the link was 0:13:51.885 --> 0:13:52.445 Manning Bar. 0:13:52.885 --> 0:13:55.685 What we worked at originally is that when you look 0:13:55.685 --> 0:13:57.645 at all the pictures, you can tell which photos they 0:13:57.645 --> 0:14:00.085 come from. I don't have a huge social media presence, 0:14:00.245 --> 0:14:03.645 so I could tell from a pornographic image, oh, actually 0:14:03.645 --> 0:14:06.325 that's my face from my engagement photo, or that's my 0:14:06.445 --> 0:14:12.605 face from women's wedding. So you do that, it started 0:14:12.645 --> 0:14:14.685 to look like it was just one of our friends. 0:14:15.245 --> 0:14:17.325 And then when we saw these other women, yeah, and 0:14:17.325 --> 0:14:22.125 we plugged them into Facebook. We just kept churning them 0:14:22.165 --> 0:14:25.085 into Facebook. And there was lots that weren't from Manny, 0:14:25.125 --> 0:14:27.925 but they were from other bars around Sydney and you 0:14:27.925 --> 0:14:29.765 could just put them into Facebook and see who had 0:14:29.845 --> 0:14:32.685 mutual friends with And so we did that the whole night. 0:14:32.885 --> 0:14:34.885 We just spent Christals on the couch with the iPad. 0:14:34.925 --> 0:14:37.805 I didn't want to see it, yeah, but he would 0:14:37.845 --> 0:14:39.445 yell out a name and I would plug it into 0:14:39.485 --> 0:14:42.805 my phone like Instagram and Facebook, and we'd write down 0:14:42.805 --> 0:14:44.765 all the people that were connected. And we just kept 0:14:44.765 --> 0:14:49.045 doing that and doing that until we got so small 0:14:49.125 --> 0:14:49.525 the group. 0:14:50.445 --> 0:14:53.525 So how small was the group that you narrowed it 0:14:53.565 --> 0:14:53.925 down to? 0:14:54.125 --> 0:14:57.605 Look, we very early in the night narrowed it down 0:14:57.645 --> 0:15:03.165 to three, and we were sure it would be some 0:15:03.205 --> 0:15:04.845 of them more than others, you know what I mean, 0:15:04.925 --> 0:15:09.165 Like we were just really hoping, I guess that it 0:15:09.325 --> 0:15:10.685 would be some of them other than others. 0:15:10.685 --> 0:15:12.125 But these three kind of work together. 0:15:12.125 --> 0:15:14.605 They're very good friends that've been in lots of bars together, 0:15:14.645 --> 0:15:16.645 so it was quind of hard to discern them. But 0:15:16.685 --> 0:15:20.205 what ended up happening is who it was post of 0:15:20.245 --> 0:15:23.285 these was completely random people off the internet. 0:15:22.925 --> 0:15:26.405 And then it just became very obvious. Right, Yeah, so 0:15:26.445 --> 0:15:28.485 we got it down to the one that night. 0:15:28.685 --> 0:15:31.325 Yeah, so you knew that night who it was. 0:15:31.485 --> 0:15:31.685 Yeah. 0:15:33.125 --> 0:15:38.685 And even though I mean, the images are bad enough, 0:15:39.005 --> 0:15:42.645 but there was a rolling poll I understand up at 0:15:42.645 --> 0:15:48.765 the top of the page that was basically saying inviting 0:15:48.845 --> 0:15:52.325 men to vote or to participate in saying how they 0:15:52.365 --> 0:15:54.045 would like to rape the women. 0:15:54.325 --> 0:15:56.245 Mine was called the Destruction of Hannah. 0:15:56.325 --> 0:15:59.645 And then at the top there was a poll and 0:15:59.685 --> 0:16:03.245 it said how would you rape Hannah? And then it 0:16:03.285 --> 0:16:06.925 had you know, seven or six options. They were very graphic, 0:16:07.525 --> 0:16:10.045 and then hundreds and hundreds of men had vote on it. 0:16:10.965 --> 0:16:14.845 So at the end of this night, the Eve of 0:16:14.925 --> 0:16:19.285 Destruction really wasn't it of your life as you knew it. 0:16:20.485 --> 0:16:23.845 You've narrowed it down already, so straight away you start 0:16:23.925 --> 0:16:28.165 ditch digging, really, which is interesting, and you've narrowed it 0:16:28.205 --> 0:16:30.005 down to who you think it is, I. 0:16:29.925 --> 0:16:32.405 Guess at the same time, and this is like Chris 0:16:32.485 --> 0:16:34.245 is a hero for this as well he made a 0:16:34.285 --> 0:16:37.645 doc that had because we got worried. We didn't really 0:16:37.685 --> 0:16:40.245 realize how long this person had been doing it of me, 0:16:40.765 --> 0:16:43.765 Like maybe he just did it all this wrong, right, 0:16:43.925 --> 0:16:46.325 so what if you know it takes it down or 0:16:46.365 --> 0:16:49.205 what Chris, every time you saw a quote about me, 0:16:49.245 --> 0:16:52.565 he takes screenshot put in a folder. And so what 0:16:52.605 --> 0:16:54.805 we did was we made a dock and we had 0:16:55.125 --> 0:16:58.885 all of the women that we had gone through, and 0:16:58.925 --> 0:17:01.765 then it was and then how they were linked to me, 0:17:02.045 --> 0:17:04.245 how they were linked to this person, the links to 0:17:04.285 --> 0:17:06.605 the posts and then the screenshots. 0:17:06.045 --> 0:17:07.085 To the post and everything. 0:17:07.485 --> 0:17:09.725 And so that's kind of how we busied our ourselves 0:17:09.765 --> 0:17:12.605 that night, because I guess the idea was I was 0:17:12.645 --> 0:17:14.645 going to go to the police office in the morning, 0:17:14.725 --> 0:17:15.885 and you just want to be able. 0:17:15.725 --> 0:17:19.045 To yeah, of course somewhat with and I. 0:17:19.405 --> 0:17:21.125 It was feel better at the time because it was 0:17:21.165 --> 0:17:24.605 so scared and there's nothing really you can do except 0:17:24.605 --> 0:17:27.245 that then yeah. 0:17:27.325 --> 0:17:29.725 Yeah, there's nowhere else to turn, but also you don't 0:17:29.765 --> 0:17:31.725 know where to go. Yeah. 0:17:31.765 --> 0:17:34.525 Look, I've never been and I'm so lucky for this 0:17:34.605 --> 0:17:37.045 a victim of a crime, and I've never been in 0:17:37.085 --> 0:17:38.405 trouble for a crime either. 0:17:38.525 --> 0:17:39.485 So I didn't even know. 0:17:39.485 --> 0:17:41.645 Really what you do with it, but I knew it 0:17:41.685 --> 0:17:45.085 wasn't an emergency, so I just thought, like, we leave 0:17:45.085 --> 0:17:47.485 it for tonight, we sit on this, and then tomorrow morning, 0:17:47.965 --> 0:17:49.885 fresher minds, we get up. 0:17:49.805 --> 0:17:50.245 And we go. 0:17:51.245 --> 0:17:52.525 How did you sleep that night? 0:17:52.805 --> 0:17:55.365 Not well? Not well? 0:17:55.485 --> 0:17:56.725 I mean I was went to be at school the 0:17:56.765 --> 0:17:58.405 next day and it's like one of those really nice 0:17:58.485 --> 0:18:00.405 days where I think it was a swimming carnival and 0:18:00.445 --> 0:18:02.885 that's like precious day because you go and you just 0:18:02.965 --> 0:18:05.565 cheer on the girls, and so you call in and 0:18:05.605 --> 0:18:07.885 I just said I was sick. But yeah, I don't 0:18:07.885 --> 0:18:09.045 think I slept much that night. 0:18:09.925 --> 0:18:12.765 So you woke up in the morning and you were 0:18:12.805 --> 0:18:14.765 resolved to go to the police. Were you and Chris 0:18:14.805 --> 0:18:16.405 going together to the police? 0:18:16.805 --> 0:18:21.005 No, Look, I wanted to go by myself. I still didn't, 0:18:21.205 --> 0:18:23.485 I guess maybe get the gravity. 0:18:23.085 --> 0:18:26.005 Of it, and I really thought that they would separate 0:18:26.085 --> 0:18:27.725 us anyway. I don't know. I don't know how. 0:18:27.725 --> 0:18:29.085 I woke up just in them like they were going 0:18:29.125 --> 0:18:31.405 to interrogate youll what's I mean? Right? 0:18:31.645 --> 0:18:34.085 And I guess I was feeling very I can do this, 0:18:34.085 --> 0:18:36.965 this will be fun, understand me. 0:18:37.645 --> 0:18:38.125 When I go. 0:18:38.565 --> 0:18:40.965 So now, I called them in the morning just in 0:18:41.005 --> 0:18:43.725 case I don't know what you do, and they just said, no, 0:18:43.845 --> 0:18:45.885 rock on in, like come in whenever. Because I thought, 0:18:45.885 --> 0:18:48.565 maybe you need to make an appointment for something like this. 0:18:49.365 --> 0:18:50.485 They just had come on in. 0:18:50.845 --> 0:18:55.205 Or that there's a special squad or yeah, yeah. 0:18:54.365 --> 0:18:58.405 I got dressed, took my little document. I just had 0:18:58.405 --> 0:19:00.125 it on my phone though, and. 0:19:00.205 --> 0:19:03.405 I took my laptop too, and then I drove down there. Yeah, 0:19:03.445 --> 0:19:04.125 and I saw. 0:19:03.925 --> 0:19:07.525 Them because what you were about to tell the police 0:19:08.445 --> 0:19:12.765 was that you had done the preliminary work, the detective work, 0:19:14.325 --> 0:19:18.085 and you had worked out who the person was, and 0:19:18.165 --> 0:19:19.445 who was that person. 0:19:19.805 --> 0:19:22.205 After we'd done all of our little detective work, we 0:19:22.325 --> 0:19:25.645 realized it was our very good friend. His name's Andy Hayler, 0:19:26.045 --> 0:19:31.365 Andrew Hayler. He has been at that point our friend 0:19:31.525 --> 0:19:34.365 for ten years. He was part of that very core 0:19:34.445 --> 0:19:38.605 group at Manning Bar. You know, when I started at 0:19:38.605 --> 0:19:41.405 the bar, I started as just a bartender, and he 0:19:41.445 --> 0:19:43.605 taught me to be a bar supervisor and then the 0:19:43.685 --> 0:19:45.085 venue manager there. 0:19:45.925 --> 0:19:48.725 He was someone that and. 0:19:48.685 --> 0:19:50.445 It still chokes me out thinking about it, because I 0:19:50.485 --> 0:19:55.605 really cared about him and I really had my best 0:19:55.645 --> 0:19:57.285 interests at hand. 0:19:57.325 --> 0:20:01.125 I guess it's still very weird to think about. 0:20:02.405 --> 0:20:08.405 So not only had you discovered these, you know, violent images, 0:20:09.565 --> 0:20:13.205 total breach of your privacy or whatever, but the knowledge 0:20:13.245 --> 0:20:14.805 that you were about to go to the police with 0:20:15.005 --> 0:20:16.725 that it was one of your dearest friends. 0:20:17.885 --> 0:20:20.485 Yeah, we just couldn't believe it either, even that night, 0:20:20.925 --> 0:20:23.165 Like I remember, I was lying in bed and having 0:20:23.165 --> 0:20:26.605 a chat about it, and it just it was so 0:20:26.805 --> 0:20:30.165 obvious from how many women he had posted it had 0:20:30.205 --> 0:20:34.245 to be him, but we couldn't believe it. And it 0:20:34.285 --> 0:20:37.485 took us so long still to believe it. I mean, 0:20:37.525 --> 0:20:40.405 you know it's to be true, but I just I 0:20:41.325 --> 0:20:43.245 just couldn't. I still can't make sense of it. And 0:20:43.245 --> 0:20:45.845 I think an interesting to me and Chris were saying it. 0:20:45.845 --> 0:20:46.245 At that time. 0:20:46.245 --> 0:20:47.805 We were planning a wedding and it really got put 0:20:47.805 --> 0:20:50.525 to a side because of this. But the way that 0:20:50.525 --> 0:20:52.645 it makes people understand how close he was to us 0:20:52.765 --> 0:20:54.765 is we were going to invite thirty people, just both 0:20:54.765 --> 0:20:57.165 of us together, thirty and he was one of them. 0:20:57.645 --> 0:21:01.565 So it was one of our including our family, closest friends. 0:21:01.645 --> 0:21:04.565 It unbelievable. 0:21:11.725 --> 0:21:15.325 After this short break, Hannah tells me what happened after 0:21:15.405 --> 0:21:18.845 she went to the police and how she didn't get 0:21:18.845 --> 0:21:25.965 the help she was hoping for. So you went to 0:21:26.005 --> 0:21:30.245 the police station, you told them, you showed them your folder, 0:21:30.405 --> 0:21:34.125 you showed them the images. Were you talking to one 0:21:34.165 --> 0:21:36.525 person behind the desk? Did they take you into a room? 0:21:37.205 --> 0:21:39.965 Was it a woman? Was it a man? What happens? 0:21:40.045 --> 0:21:42.245 So I just turned up and I think that I 0:21:42.245 --> 0:21:44.765 don't think they I don't know whether they picked a 0:21:44.765 --> 0:21:46.685 woman or a man because of what was happening, but 0:21:46.725 --> 0:21:49.685 it was a female constable and they put me in 0:21:50.045 --> 0:21:51.525 a room that was right next. 0:21:51.325 --> 0:21:52.245 To the front desk. 0:21:52.925 --> 0:21:55.805 So as I was giving my statement, and as I 0:21:55.845 --> 0:21:58.805 was showing them these naked pictures of me and like 0:21:59.285 --> 0:22:05.445 really incredibly violent and degrading positions, there would be a 0:22:05.645 --> 0:22:08.525 conflict at the front desk and someone would come in. 0:22:09.685 --> 0:22:10.685 I'm a police officer. 0:22:10.805 --> 0:22:11.565 Yeah yeah, yeah. 0:22:11.645 --> 0:22:13.405 He would have to leave to go deal with something 0:22:13.405 --> 0:22:14.965 like at one point, some guy was yelling at the front. 0:22:15.005 --> 0:22:17.125 I understand that's what the police is about. I get 0:22:17.245 --> 0:22:19.845 it's a very hard job. But I'm just sitting here 0:22:20.485 --> 0:22:24.205 in this little room alone. 0:22:24.005 --> 0:22:26.885 And they couldn't get the website up on their computer. 0:22:27.005 --> 0:22:29.085 I don't know if that's because they have a porn filter. 0:22:29.205 --> 0:22:33.605 So they were phone, Oh, of all the times to 0:22:33.685 --> 0:22:34.645 have take issues. 0:22:35.525 --> 0:22:37.405 And so then they told me that they thought the 0:22:37.405 --> 0:22:39.365 website had gone down, and I said, well, I'm on 0:22:39.445 --> 0:22:42.525 it on my phone. So I went through it on 0:22:42.565 --> 0:22:45.605 my phone and oh, saying I just don't want to 0:22:45.645 --> 0:22:48.765 see it. Please don't show me it at all. I 0:22:49.125 --> 0:22:51.045 cannot see any more of that stuff. 0:22:51.765 --> 0:22:53.565 And she repeatedly. 0:22:52.965 --> 0:22:55.245 Turned the phone around to show me things and make 0:22:55.765 --> 0:22:57.645 out what I looked like in the photos. 0:22:58.325 --> 0:22:58.925 What do you mean? 0:23:01.085 --> 0:23:05.365 So at one point she found a photo and it 0:23:05.485 --> 0:23:07.205 was me and it was in an outfit, and she 0:23:07.205 --> 0:23:09.045 told me I look cute and that one and then 0:23:09.045 --> 0:23:13.285 show it for me. And you just laughed because you're like, 0:23:13.325 --> 0:23:15.365 I really need these people to be on my side. 0:23:15.805 --> 0:23:19.365 I really want them tell me, do you know? 0:23:20.285 --> 0:23:22.365 So you laugh along, and also you're just so shocked 0:23:22.485 --> 0:23:25.285 you just go along with it. And there was another time, 0:23:25.405 --> 0:23:27.085 and I don't know if my partner was there by them, 0:23:27.125 --> 0:23:28.405 because once I gave my seat. 0:23:28.285 --> 0:23:32.605 With my PREMI come in, but she said, what did 0:23:32.645 --> 0:23:33.725 you do to this man? 0:23:34.805 --> 0:23:35.165 Oh? 0:23:35.605 --> 0:23:39.485 I just couldn't believe it because I was nothing but 0:23:39.525 --> 0:23:42.805 a very good friend to this man, like he did this. 0:23:42.925 --> 0:23:44.725 But even if I had dumped him. 0:23:44.805 --> 0:23:49.045 You know, yeah, sure, it's it. Do you think that 0:23:49.125 --> 0:23:53.125 they treated it with the gravitask that it deserved that 0:23:53.205 --> 0:23:55.165 initial thing, like did it go up with a chain 0:23:55.285 --> 0:23:56.405 or was she kind of like. 0:23:57.365 --> 0:24:01.565 Yeah, she was just the first person I think that 0:24:01.685 --> 0:24:04.965 was there. And I don't want a huge amount of 0:24:05.085 --> 0:24:08.165 like I'm not angry at it. It was just completely 0:24:08.205 --> 0:24:11.445 put in the wrong place, like crazily, like I shouldn't 0:24:11.445 --> 0:24:12.565 have been sitting in that room. 0:24:13.165 --> 0:24:15.445 I shouldn't have been speaking to her about it. 0:24:16.285 --> 0:24:19.965 Yeah, completely mishandled, I think at the very beginning. 0:24:20.765 --> 0:24:23.045 But so then you've handed it over to the police. 0:24:23.085 --> 0:24:25.845 What does she say is going to happen from that point? 0:24:26.405 --> 0:24:29.605 Not much so Chris came in and gave his statement. 0:24:29.645 --> 0:24:31.045 So we've been there for a very long time. 0:24:31.045 --> 0:24:33.845 At that point, I'm much better to have Chris there, 0:24:33.925 --> 0:24:36.525 I imagine, Well, you need an ally or no. 0:24:36.925 --> 0:24:40.525 Well, because she kept with Chris there, she much more will. 0:24:40.605 --> 0:24:43.885 I almost left because then I was still getting a 0:24:43.885 --> 0:24:46.125 lot of seeing the images I didn't want to see, Like, 0:24:46.285 --> 0:24:47.005 why we. 0:24:46.965 --> 0:24:49.245 Have to see them again? I've seen them. I don't 0:24:49.285 --> 0:24:50.285 want to see them again. 0:24:50.845 --> 0:24:52.325 But it was better for Chris to be that yet 0:24:52.405 --> 0:24:56.325 absolutely in support of me. That was a mistake, I guess, 0:24:56.805 --> 0:24:59.965 but I didn't realize it would be so awful. But 0:25:00.005 --> 0:25:03.845 then afterwards, look, I still left thinking, you know, the 0:25:03.845 --> 0:25:05.165 cops have a really hard job. 0:25:05.485 --> 0:25:07.765 Sometimes I make jokes, you know, I think something's going 0:25:07.805 --> 0:25:10.125 to happen. I was like, you know, the. 0:25:10.045 --> 0:25:12.565 Wheels will turn things good. Things are going to happen 0:25:12.565 --> 0:25:13.645 for us when we walked out. 0:25:14.205 --> 0:25:20.125 So in the meantime, I imagine that every time you go 0:25:20.245 --> 0:25:25.325 home or it becomes a real topic of inquiry, that 0:25:25.405 --> 0:25:28.005 Chris is looking at the website to see what's happening, 0:25:28.005 --> 0:25:31.605 if it's been updated, if there's more pictures, what's happening 0:25:31.605 --> 0:25:32.365 in real time. 0:25:33.125 --> 0:25:34.005 Yeah, look, I think. 0:25:33.885 --> 0:25:36.725 That night we were really focused on me, But then 0:25:37.205 --> 0:25:39.885 we were still worried that, you know, it would get 0:25:39.925 --> 0:25:43.485 taken down or something and our friends wouldn't have evidence 0:25:43.525 --> 0:25:43.885 for them. 0:25:44.285 --> 0:25:47.005 And so what Chris was doing was going to the 0:25:47.005 --> 0:25:50.325 website and getting all of the screenshots of our friends. 0:25:50.405 --> 0:25:52.685 And he had a folder and at this point he'd 0:25:52.685 --> 0:25:55.405 made this because he's a spreadsheet guy, he's in finance, 0:25:56.325 --> 0:25:59.045 huge spreadsheet, all of the women he'd found, his names, 0:25:59.165 --> 0:26:01.765 how they were linked to end, all of the posts, 0:26:01.805 --> 0:26:05.285 putting them into folders. Just you really want something good 0:26:05.325 --> 0:26:07.445 to happen, and you trust the police that they will 0:26:07.445 --> 0:26:10.165 make it happen. But you know, I guess it busy 0:26:10.165 --> 0:26:13.125 in yourself made yourself feel better still, So that's what, Yes. 0:26:13.005 --> 0:26:16.725 That you have an activity in a time where you 0:26:17.005 --> 0:26:20.005 need to you need You can't be idle. There's no 0:26:20.125 --> 0:26:21.365 kicking back and relaxing. 0:26:21.685 --> 0:26:24.405 No, no, And I think it made Chris feel a 0:26:24.405 --> 0:26:26.405 lot better, and it made me feel a lot better 0:26:26.485 --> 0:26:28.205 that Chris was doing that. I wasn't doing it. I 0:26:28.245 --> 0:26:29.685 could not go to that website. 0:26:30.045 --> 0:26:35.005 But your two girlfriends from Manning Bar were also on 0:26:35.045 --> 0:26:37.925 that side. And was this the point at which you 0:26:38.005 --> 0:26:40.125 resolved not to tell them because you knew that you 0:26:40.165 --> 0:26:42.965 had to keep you had to keep things tight. 0:26:43.285 --> 0:26:45.645 Yeah, well we thought that when we had gone to 0:26:45.645 --> 0:26:47.285 the police. The police said no, we can tell whoever 0:26:47.285 --> 0:26:48.245 we want. 0:26:48.605 --> 0:26:52.325 But we think that was odd because if it got 0:26:52.325 --> 0:26:55.965 back to him, we're all very close friends, then you 0:26:56.005 --> 0:26:57.165 know that would be it for it. 0:26:57.325 --> 0:26:58.485 He'll just rip it all down. 0:26:58.605 --> 0:27:03.325 So we decided that we wouldn't say it to anyone then, 0:27:03.485 --> 0:27:06.405 and then I guess when we later got a lawyer, 0:27:06.485 --> 0:27:07.445 they just taught us not to. 0:27:07.685 --> 0:27:11.245 So yeah, okay, so you left things with the police. 0:27:11.405 --> 0:27:11.565 YEP. 0:27:12.205 --> 0:27:17.085 At this point, you've done ninety percent of the work, 0:27:17.485 --> 0:27:19.765 You've worked out who it is, you've gone to the police, 0:27:19.805 --> 0:27:22.245 you've got the images, you know that these two of 0:27:22.285 --> 0:27:26.125 your other friends involved. You've left it with them, and 0:27:26.125 --> 0:27:28.285 then they come back to you a little while later. 0:27:28.525 --> 0:27:29.845 And what did they say to you. 0:27:30.245 --> 0:27:32.765 Well, I think just before that we'd realized that that 0:27:32.965 --> 0:27:36.725 like Andy had been making threats to me, and so 0:27:36.845 --> 0:27:38.725 he was saying things like I'm going to wait inside 0:27:38.725 --> 0:27:43.165 her house until she comes in and I'm not going 0:27:43.205 --> 0:27:44.405 to say the rest of it, but it was going 0:27:44.445 --> 0:27:46.605 to break me in my own bed, things like that. 0:27:47.165 --> 0:27:48.885 Right, So he's saying that on on. 0:27:49.165 --> 0:27:51.125 That and yeah, and I know where she works, I 0:27:51.125 --> 0:27:53.045 know where she lives. I'm coming to get that slot. 0:27:53.365 --> 0:27:56.205 Just you guys, wait and so or I'm going to 0:27:56.245 --> 0:27:58.085 put her in a van as she walks home. He 0:27:58.125 --> 0:28:00.045 knows where I live, He's been to my house, he's 0:28:00.085 --> 0:28:02.445 been to my job. So we wrote to the police 0:28:02.765 --> 0:28:05.485 and said, you know these threats and I feel like 0:28:05.565 --> 0:28:06.325 ratscheating up. 0:28:06.605 --> 0:28:09.645 I think that you need to do something at it, 0:28:09.645 --> 0:28:10.525 and they didn't get back. 0:28:10.365 --> 0:28:13.285 To us, and so that we did get a lawyer 0:28:13.405 --> 0:28:15.085 after that because we just thought all that. 0:28:15.725 --> 0:28:20.325 Now that lawyer you got is quite amazing. Yeah, how 0:28:20.325 --> 0:28:22.485 did things change once you got her on board? 0:28:22.965 --> 0:28:25.525 So when we first got her on board, really she 0:28:25.605 --> 0:28:32.525 couldn't do much. In about July ish I got a 0:28:32.565 --> 0:28:35.285 call and it was from the same police officer and 0:28:35.325 --> 0:28:36.965 she just told me that the case was going to 0:28:37.005 --> 0:28:39.925 be suspended unless something else came up. 0:28:40.765 --> 0:28:49.765 Devastating, yeah, angering, yeah, infuriating, unbelievable. Have I left out it? 0:28:49.885 --> 0:28:52.085 I left out I'm imagining that I am you. 0:28:53.445 --> 0:28:58.605 Yeah, And like you know, between that time, we still 0:28:58.725 --> 0:29:01.565 had this person who'd sent us the email originally that 0:29:01.645 --> 0:29:02.605 private investigator. 0:29:03.005 --> 0:29:05.365 He had found the address of who was posting them 0:29:05.685 --> 0:29:07.125 and it was his address. 0:29:06.885 --> 0:29:11.045 We knew, and his address, and he had the phone 0:29:11.085 --> 0:29:13.805 he was using, and it was the phone that he 0:29:14.085 --> 0:29:16.245 was spending all this information. We kept sending it to 0:29:16.285 --> 0:29:19.205 the police. He was happy to speak to the police, and. 0:29:19.165 --> 0:29:22.005 Just no one, no one cared to do it. 0:29:22.045 --> 0:29:24.645 And so we're getting more and more, like we already 0:29:24.645 --> 0:29:27.685 were very certain but you think it's going in the 0:29:27.765 --> 0:29:30.245 right direction and it's going in a completely different direction. 0:29:30.885 --> 0:29:34.365 Well, you know, when you're in law abiding person, your 0:29:34.485 --> 0:29:37.085 first port of call is the police, and you kind 0:29:37.085 --> 0:29:39.205 of think that the police are there to fix things 0:29:40.165 --> 0:29:45.325 when people have broken laws. But that wasn't the case. 0:29:45.405 --> 0:29:47.965 So what did What did you do when the police 0:29:47.965 --> 0:29:49.845 said that they weren't going to go any further. 0:29:50.605 --> 0:29:56.325 Well, first, I cried so sad. He was just so surprised, 0:29:57.205 --> 0:29:59.485 and I looked up what suspended meant, because. 0:29:59.245 --> 0:30:01.965 I'm just like, I know what spend this means in English, 0:30:02.005 --> 0:30:04.445 but I thought, what does. 0:30:04.285 --> 0:30:06.285 It mean in legally legal talk? 0:30:06.445 --> 0:30:08.965 Yeah, and then we just called our lawyer immediately, and 0:30:09.005 --> 0:30:10.845 you know, she is a gem. 0:30:12.085 --> 0:30:16.925 And we had already been a bit worried that it 0:30:16.965 --> 0:30:20.245 wasn't going anywhere. I still had a very positive attitude, 0:30:20.285 --> 0:30:22.445 but it was just in case it wasn't. 0:30:22.485 --> 0:30:25.205 Our lawyer had given us the name of a. 0:30:25.165 --> 0:30:27.525 Forensic investigator, and I think he used to be in 0:30:27.565 --> 0:30:30.245 the police, and so what he does is he looks 0:30:30.285 --> 0:30:32.365 at all of the evidence or he finds it for himself, 0:30:32.805 --> 0:30:34.565 and then he puts together a report. 0:30:34.765 --> 0:30:37.765 I think that's much more palatable for the police. 0:30:37.885 --> 0:30:41.685 All right, because it's it's in the language, and. 0:30:41.645 --> 0:30:43.445 I think because he used to be a police officer 0:30:43.525 --> 0:30:48.285 or he's been in that area, it has more backing. 0:30:48.725 --> 0:30:51.965 It means more than our silly spreadsheet. And so that 0:30:52.085 --> 0:30:54.285 had already been going. So I remember when I got 0:30:54.285 --> 0:30:56.845 that suspending phone call. I said to her because I 0:30:56.925 --> 0:30:58.845 was desperate, I said, oh, but we've already got We've 0:30:58.845 --> 0:30:59.885 got this man doing something. 0:30:59.885 --> 0:31:00.765 We've paid him a. 0:31:00.685 --> 0:31:03.325 Little bit of money because this preliminary report, but he'll 0:31:03.325 --> 0:31:05.325 do a real one like and she just said, yes, 0:31:05.365 --> 0:31:07.405 send it on through if you get it, And so 0:31:07.485 --> 0:31:08.085 I was like. 0:31:08.325 --> 0:31:12.005 Okay, all right, So how much does all of that cost? 0:31:12.805 --> 0:31:15.845 So you've now got a lawyer, Yeah, you've got the 0:31:16.165 --> 0:31:22.685 forensic tech guy, you're getting reports made, You're in I imagine 0:31:22.565 --> 0:31:27.245 almost daily contact with your lawyer. How much money have 0:31:27.325 --> 0:31:28.405 you been spending on it? 0:31:28.565 --> 0:31:30.925 In the end, it cost is around twenty thousand dollars 0:31:31.005 --> 0:31:32.045 to get this all done. 0:31:33.045 --> 0:31:36.165 Do you get victims of crime compensation? Is any of 0:31:36.165 --> 0:31:36.765 that covered? 0:31:36.925 --> 0:31:40.525 Or I tried. I tried for it's called reparations, and 0:31:40.565 --> 0:31:41.125 so the. 0:31:42.725 --> 0:31:46.125 Victims Services person put me onto them and they denied it. 0:31:46.765 --> 0:31:49.965 So no, did they give you grounds or. 0:31:51.205 --> 0:31:54.405 It's just a knock back. No, yeah, just knock back, 0:31:55.085 --> 0:31:55.525 all right. 0:31:55.645 --> 0:32:01.285 So now with your forensic guy and the lawyer, you 0:32:01.325 --> 0:32:03.045 can go back to the police and you've got a 0:32:03.165 --> 0:32:07.965 comprehensive report. Then so you do that and then what happens. 0:32:08.485 --> 0:32:11.485 Yeah, so the lawyer sends them a letter. It was 0:32:11.525 --> 0:32:13.605 a very strongly worded letter. It was great, you know, 0:32:13.765 --> 0:32:19.005 legal legal person, and it just said they demand for 0:32:19.045 --> 0:32:20.245 the case to be reopened. 0:32:20.365 --> 0:32:24.365 Here is this extra evidence we expect to hear back 0:32:24.485 --> 0:32:27.525 by this time. And then that was on. 0:32:30.005 --> 0:32:32.965 It was maybe five days after that I got this 0:32:33.165 --> 0:32:35.605 very strange call at school and I picked it up 0:32:35.605 --> 0:32:37.965 because it was from a random number and that was 0:32:38.005 --> 0:32:41.845 always the police for me, and it was just a 0:32:41.885 --> 0:32:45.405 police officer, so lovely. But he told me that it 0:32:45.445 --> 0:32:48.525 had landed on the right desk. Now it had someone 0:32:48.565 --> 0:32:51.645 would be in contact with me. Now. It just it 0:32:51.725 --> 0:32:54.885 was a nothing phone call except to say, don't go 0:32:54.925 --> 0:32:58.765 and do the complaint you're going to put in somewhere, 0:32:58.805 --> 0:33:01.005 do you know what I mean? Oh? Okay, It just 0:33:01.085 --> 0:33:04.485 said we got your thing. It has gone to a detective. 0:33:04.565 --> 0:33:08.805 Now they will be in contact and so what a 0:33:08.885 --> 0:33:11.805 shift five days. I think between Yah, it's two things, 0:33:12.365 --> 0:33:14.165 and I was just ecstatic. 0:33:14.405 --> 0:33:15.325 I could not believe it. 0:33:16.285 --> 0:33:19.845 Yeah, because finally something was happening, something had shifted. 0:33:20.085 --> 0:33:23.005 I just yeah, incredible. 0:33:23.765 --> 0:33:28.005 But also in this time, so this really tight core 0:33:28.085 --> 0:33:30.605 group of people that you've been traveling through life with, 0:33:32.485 --> 0:33:35.805 you've not been having contact with them. You've been avoiding them, 0:33:35.885 --> 0:33:38.805 the girls because you don't want to tip off Andy 0:33:38.845 --> 0:33:44.725 about what's happening, and Andy for obvious reasons. But how 0:33:44.805 --> 0:33:48.885 is that to be suddenly estranged from those people who've 0:33:48.885 --> 0:33:50.605 been such a significant part of your life. 0:33:51.645 --> 0:33:56.365 Look, it was very difficult, I think, to stop seeing 0:33:56.405 --> 0:33:58.685 your friends. We just weren't sure that if we saw 0:33:58.765 --> 0:34:00.925 them we wouldn't tell them. 0:34:01.445 --> 0:34:05.165 You know, it was me, Chris and I. Sorry. We 0:34:06.605 --> 0:34:07.405 talked about it. 0:34:08.605 --> 0:34:11.005 I would say almost every day, if not every second day, 0:34:11.005 --> 0:34:12.005 whether we should tell them. 0:34:12.445 --> 0:34:14.165 You know, Chris was watching that. 0:34:14.125 --> 0:34:16.365 Website to make sure he wasn't threatening them, and he 0:34:16.405 --> 0:34:20.005 never was. But you just worry that something will happen 0:34:20.085 --> 0:34:20.605 to them. 0:34:20.485 --> 0:34:22.765 And they won't have known about it. 0:34:23.485 --> 0:34:26.925 However, we were told very strongly from our lawyers, and 0:34:26.925 --> 0:34:29.725 thankfully they did to not say anything. But you just 0:34:29.725 --> 0:34:32.085 can't hang around with your friends. So we didn't, so 0:34:32.125 --> 0:34:34.725 we just pulled back from everyone. We just hang out 0:34:34.965 --> 0:34:38.045 by ourselves. This kind of took over our life at 0:34:38.045 --> 0:34:38.565 this point. 0:34:39.565 --> 0:34:40.685 You must have been scared. 0:34:41.525 --> 0:34:44.765 Oh yeah, I was, honest. I was terrified all the time. 0:34:44.845 --> 0:34:45.085 You know. 0:34:45.165 --> 0:34:46.925 There's times where I meant to be at school by 0:34:46.925 --> 0:34:48.365 myself on the weekend. 0:34:48.285 --> 0:34:50.845 Maybe to check something or be on some kind of 0:34:50.845 --> 0:34:53.925 function or something. I wouldn't go. We bought cameras for 0:34:54.005 --> 0:34:54.565 the house. 0:34:54.885 --> 0:34:57.645 I wore an Apple watch that would tell Chris when 0:34:57.645 --> 0:35:00.165 I arrived to school and when I got home, like, 0:35:00.205 --> 0:35:02.325 I wouldn't even keep it was summer, and I wouldn't 0:35:02.365 --> 0:35:03.525 keep the windows open. 0:35:03.405 --> 0:35:04.925 Just in case I was in a different room. 0:35:05.045 --> 0:35:08.645 Because the things that Andy had wrote about me were 0:35:08.685 --> 0:35:10.685 so graffic and they seemed so. 0:35:12.365 --> 0:35:14.765 Real in nature that his ability to. 0:35:14.725 --> 0:35:16.125 Do it, and I reckon, I look, I like to 0:35:16.125 --> 0:35:17.045 say this, but I reckon I. 0:35:17.085 --> 0:35:21.005 Could take him. If I saw would be coming at me, 0:35:21.685 --> 0:35:25.205 they'd be hiding in my house. I don't think. I 0:35:25.205 --> 0:35:26.605 don't know, one can be prepared for that. 0:35:26.685 --> 0:35:30.405 So and also because he knew you, Yeah, yeah, so 0:35:30.485 --> 0:35:32.765 that's got another element of it as well. 0:35:32.925 --> 0:35:34.845 And well he lived nearby as well, so I used 0:35:34.885 --> 0:35:37.805 to see people with a beard and the same kind 0:35:37.805 --> 0:35:40.605 of gait of walk, and I would just run. I 0:35:40.885 --> 0:35:45.405 just was so scared that, yeah, we would be surprised. 0:35:45.405 --> 0:35:47.485 And like me and Chris, we slept with a knife 0:35:47.485 --> 0:35:49.885 next to the bird because we just thought things of 0:35:49.965 --> 0:35:54.085 him coming in, or he's been talking to three hundred. 0:35:53.725 --> 0:35:57.125 Men and passing them up on the idea of raping me. 0:35:57.325 --> 0:36:00.085 Yeah, right, And he was giving out our phone numbers 0:36:00.485 --> 0:36:04.205 in these weird groups that the investigator was in, and 0:36:04.565 --> 0:36:06.285 you don't know if he's given out your address and 0:36:06.325 --> 0:36:09.645 he's made some other men I don't know that you 0:36:09.685 --> 0:36:10.485 don't recognize. 0:36:10.525 --> 0:36:11.925 So I was just terrified. 0:36:12.645 --> 0:36:16.205 And in that time, you haven't bumped into him, but 0:36:16.325 --> 0:36:16.925 then you do. 0:36:19.005 --> 0:36:20.565 Yeah, we were quite lucky. 0:36:21.205 --> 0:36:23.485 I guess we weren't going out as much, so that 0:36:23.605 --> 0:36:25.925 might be why we didn't bump into him as well. 0:36:26.365 --> 0:36:27.485 But yeah, we were going to. 0:36:27.445 --> 0:36:31.165 This it's like a football festival down the road, and 0:36:31.205 --> 0:36:32.445 we knew there was a chance. 0:36:32.485 --> 0:36:32.645 You know. 0:36:32.685 --> 0:36:34.085 It's just one of those things that everyone in the 0:36:34.085 --> 0:36:35.565 Inner West kind of community. 0:36:35.765 --> 0:36:38.245 Yeah, and nice. It's got stools and stuff like that. 0:36:39.325 --> 0:36:43.245 And so I said to Chris, I won't come first, 0:36:44.325 --> 0:36:46.125 you go and then let me hear. 0:36:46.325 --> 0:36:48.405 It's like, and I'll come after, just in case. 0:36:49.205 --> 0:36:52.085 And I think, because I can see Chris because we 0:36:52.125 --> 0:36:54.845 have we can follow each other on our iPhones because 0:36:54.845 --> 0:36:57.885 we were so freaked out. He just arrives and I 0:36:57.925 --> 0:37:00.645 get a message that he immediately runs into Andy. 0:37:00.525 --> 0:37:03.405 And he just runs up gives him a massive hug, 0:37:04.405 --> 0:37:05.005 and just. 0:37:05.245 --> 0:37:06.565 Andy hugs Chris. 0:37:07.125 --> 0:37:07.325 Yeah. 0:37:07.445 --> 0:37:12.285 Yeah, and just like right to see you mate, like normal. 0:37:12.125 --> 0:37:14.445 Like absolutely normal, like more than normal because we hadn't 0:37:14.485 --> 0:37:16.685 seen him for a while at that point, you know, 0:37:17.005 --> 0:37:20.605 super friendly. Yeah, And so he messaged me and he 0:37:20.685 --> 0:37:22.965 told me that he would be there and like you 0:37:23.005 --> 0:37:23.965 can make the decision to. 0:37:23.885 --> 0:37:24.245 Come or not. 0:37:24.365 --> 0:37:26.085 And it just pissed me off because my other friends 0:37:26.085 --> 0:37:28.965 are already there. We went part of that we had 0:37:29.485 --> 0:37:31.045 rated from kind of that group at that point. I 0:37:31.045 --> 0:37:31.885 had another group of. 0:37:31.765 --> 0:37:34.405 Friends and I was like, you know what, I'm going 0:37:34.485 --> 0:37:37.165 to go down there. And he did the same thing 0:37:37.165 --> 0:37:37.405 to me. 0:37:37.525 --> 0:37:40.445 You know, we hugged, We talked about our life and 0:37:40.485 --> 0:37:42.445 you know, he asked me about my school and the 0:37:42.485 --> 0:37:43.165 house and. 0:37:44.005 --> 0:37:46.805 Yeah, he looked you in your eyes, yeah. 0:37:46.645 --> 0:37:48.805 Yeah, yeah, like like nothing nothing at. 0:37:48.685 --> 0:37:50.405 All, And what did you feel. 0:37:50.925 --> 0:37:55.925 The weird thing is that it still was just my friend, Andy. 0:37:56.125 --> 0:37:58.845 You know, you're so angry, You're so angry, and. 0:37:58.885 --> 0:38:02.125 Chris was there with me, obviously, and you know this 0:38:02.205 --> 0:38:03.765 man is saying these things, but you look him in 0:38:03.765 --> 0:38:05.925 the eyes and it's still the friend you've been friends 0:38:05.925 --> 0:38:08.125 with for ten years. It did not make any sense 0:38:08.165 --> 0:38:10.765 that they were still at all the same person. 0:38:11.525 --> 0:38:15.845 All right, But at this stage, I guess he's still 0:38:15.925 --> 0:38:20.805 compart mentalized, even though academically you know that it's him 0:38:22.485 --> 0:38:25.525 in your heart when you see him, it's your friend. 0:38:26.245 --> 0:38:29.765 But then the police call you again and they have 0:38:29.965 --> 0:38:37.205 news for you about yeah doing a raid. Yeah, yeah, 0:38:37.245 --> 0:38:37.885 and it happened. 0:38:38.005 --> 0:38:40.605 Yeah, yeah, they did the raid. So I got a 0:38:40.645 --> 0:38:42.085 call at school. 0:38:42.125 --> 0:38:44.445 I was teaching, Thank Christ, I was teaching my year twelve, 0:38:44.565 --> 0:38:47.005 So in my lab I have a big glass wall, 0:38:47.405 --> 0:38:49.485 and I had already told them because I knew it 0:38:49.525 --> 0:38:51.965 was happening that day that I might need to pop 0:38:52.005 --> 0:38:54.405 out for a personal reason, just like them, just for. 0:38:54.405 --> 0:38:56.045 A phone call. They're all working. 0:38:56.565 --> 0:38:58.965 I just pop around to the window where they can't hear, 0:38:59.445 --> 0:39:01.405 and she just said, yeah, we went in. 0:39:01.525 --> 0:39:03.045 He was there. We got everything. 0:39:03.485 --> 0:39:06.925 There was the computers, there was hard drives, there was USBs, 0:39:07.005 --> 0:39:10.205 it was all there. He gave us the passwords, Oh 0:39:10.325 --> 0:39:11.685 is it in with us now? 0:39:12.325 --> 0:39:13.925 And I just you don't. 0:39:13.725 --> 0:39:17.805 Know, you just and how is that feeling? 0:39:19.005 --> 0:39:21.485 It was a relief because apparently if he doesn't give 0:39:21.485 --> 0:39:23.365 the passwords up, they can just put him in jail. 0:39:24.045 --> 0:39:26.965 So you have to do those things. So it was 0:39:27.045 --> 0:39:33.445 just about him being there, but the massive high of 0:39:33.565 --> 0:39:38.565 relief that you have. But also I think. 0:39:39.845 --> 0:39:42.925 We always believed it was him, but it's just another loss, 0:39:42.965 --> 0:39:43.325 isn't it. 0:39:43.325 --> 0:39:47.845 I just felt like, oh my god, yeah. 0:39:47.765 --> 0:39:53.085 Yeah, that it was not even through all of it, 0:39:53.205 --> 0:39:54.925 I'm sure there was a part of you that was like, 0:39:55.045 --> 0:39:57.445 let this not be him, Let it not be him. 0:39:58.445 --> 0:40:01.765 Yeah, just yeah, still unbelievable. 0:40:02.365 --> 0:40:06.725 And then this is I also find this unbelievable. It 0:40:06.805 --> 0:40:12.525 went to court, Yeah, yes, yes, And in court was 0:40:12.565 --> 0:40:14.605 it during the process of the court that you met 0:40:14.765 --> 0:40:19.685 with the twenty six other women that yeah, were also 0:40:19.725 --> 0:40:21.005 on the side stween. 0:40:20.765 --> 0:40:22.685 That and the court, there was all sorts of weird 0:40:22.725 --> 0:40:27.125 things where the CDPP, the prosecutor, we'd have this many 0:40:27.245 --> 0:40:30.925 charges and then they thought, well, actually it's not porn 0:40:31.085 --> 0:40:33.005 of you, it's your face, and you have no right 0:40:33.045 --> 0:40:34.845 to privacy of your face. So we're going to drop 0:40:34.845 --> 0:40:37.165 the charges to this, then we're going to aggrevate them. 0:40:37.205 --> 0:40:39.805 They went on for two years of this, like doing 0:40:39.845 --> 0:40:41.805 and throwing. So by the time we got to court, 0:40:41.885 --> 0:40:44.325 we're just I was so excited for it to just 0:40:45.205 --> 0:40:48.205 done so when we got there, though, by then I 0:40:48.365 --> 0:40:50.965 had told many of the women. 0:40:56.325 --> 0:40:59.645 There's a lot more to Hannah's story. Right after this 0:40:59.725 --> 0:41:03.925 short break, we dive deeper into how Hannah finally revealed 0:41:03.925 --> 0:41:07.285 the truth to her friends, the ones who were also 0:41:07.445 --> 0:41:17.005 on the website will be right back. So you told 0:41:17.085 --> 0:41:17.925 Jess and Rachel. 0:41:18.165 --> 0:41:20.125 I told several others as well. 0:41:20.285 --> 0:41:22.845 Right, but these were your dear friends. 0:41:22.925 --> 0:41:24.525 Yeah, I had told them. 0:41:25.125 --> 0:41:27.445 And how was that? How was that conversation? 0:41:27.845 --> 0:41:32.005 Was awful? Because we pulled back. It was weird. They 0:41:32.085 --> 0:41:35.285 knew something was wrong, and you know. 0:41:35.245 --> 0:41:38.605 One of them was in a car going somewhere and 0:41:38.645 --> 0:41:40.165 I didn't want to tell her then, but she I 0:41:40.165 --> 0:41:41.605 think she was going off seas who knows she was 0:41:41.645 --> 0:41:44.085 doing something that meant it was either now or never, 0:41:45.005 --> 0:41:46.525 And you just don't know how to tell them. So 0:41:46.925 --> 0:41:49.245 I would just recount what happened to me and just 0:41:49.285 --> 0:41:53.445 not say that it was Andy, and then say that 0:41:53.485 --> 0:41:55.685 it was Andy and what had happened, and then say 0:41:55.725 --> 0:41:56.845 and I'm. 0:41:56.845 --> 0:41:58.085 Really sorry to tell you. 0:41:58.085 --> 0:42:00.485 You're sitting down as everything you got someone with you, 0:42:01.245 --> 0:42:04.285 it's also you two and then would asked to get 0:42:04.325 --> 0:42:07.405 sent their things, and you just try and prepare them 0:42:07.405 --> 0:42:09.765 for what they're about to see because it's I. 0:42:09.765 --> 0:42:12.685 Mean, Rachel's one was called, let's rate Rachel. And it 0:42:12.805 --> 0:42:16.045 was just like a born. It was just awful. 0:42:16.605 --> 0:42:20.685 And I think the shock of that is so hard, 0:42:20.845 --> 0:42:22.365 and you're very I mean, they were in shock when 0:42:22.365 --> 0:42:26.845 I told them. But yeah, it's terrible, terrible to be 0:42:26.925 --> 0:42:30.325 that kind of messenger of awful news. 0:42:30.685 --> 0:42:33.965 And also the I mean because it's cost you so much. 0:42:34.925 --> 0:42:43.205 It's cost you that year of friendship minimum minimum, it's 0:42:43.205 --> 0:42:47.525 cost you, I imagine, trust on all sorts of levels. 0:42:48.925 --> 0:42:52.725 So when you went to court and when he was sentenced, well, 0:42:52.805 --> 0:42:56.605 two things I found really interesting what he said when 0:42:56.645 --> 0:42:59.885 he was door stopped by a journalist on the way 0:42:59.925 --> 0:43:00.405 to court. 0:43:00.685 --> 0:43:02.405 Yeah she's our friends. 0:43:02.845 --> 0:43:04.165 Wow, Oh is she? 0:43:04.485 --> 0:43:04.685 Yeah? 0:43:04.765 --> 0:43:04.965 Yeah? 0:43:04.965 --> 0:43:06.925 So she was the producer of the Australian story. 0:43:07.525 --> 0:43:09.645 Right, Well, my good friend's sisters, So that that's how 0:43:09.685 --> 0:43:13.005 she it was important. So she was there both days, 0:43:13.045 --> 0:43:15.925 and she was really on our like she wanted to 0:43:16.645 --> 0:43:19.045 this to be a good like a story. She thought 0:43:19.085 --> 0:43:21.525 it was important, and so that's why it was on 0:43:21.565 --> 0:43:22.765 the news both times. 0:43:22.925 --> 0:43:23.125 Yeah. 0:43:23.485 --> 0:43:26.445 Right, she was on our side because she knew what 0:43:26.485 --> 0:43:28.205 had happened to us, you know. 0:43:28.725 --> 0:43:31.445 And yeah, when he said it was what did he say? 0:43:31.685 --> 0:43:32.365 I can't remember. 0:43:32.485 --> 0:43:36.125 He said it was my dark So he's walking into 0:43:36.165 --> 0:43:40.605 court and the reporter says to him, you know, why 0:43:40.645 --> 0:43:43.285 did you do it? And he says something. 0:43:43.125 --> 0:43:44.205 Like dark part of my sight. 0:43:44.445 --> 0:43:48.845 Yeah, the dark part of my psyche manifesting, which I 0:43:49.005 --> 0:43:52.365 also thought was an interesting answer because he didn't at 0:43:52.405 --> 0:43:55.645 that point, he didn't try to make an excuse. He didn't. Yeah, 0:43:56.125 --> 0:43:57.565 but he didn't say he was sorry. 0:43:57.805 --> 0:43:58.045 No. 0:43:59.125 --> 0:44:01.445 But then he was asked how he would feel seeing 0:44:01.485 --> 0:44:03.965 the women in court and how many of you were 0:44:03.965 --> 0:44:04.685 going to be there? 0:44:04.765 --> 0:44:06.325 There was I think eight or nine that were giving 0:44:06.325 --> 0:44:08.925 their victim impact statements, and there was the families. 0:44:08.445 --> 0:44:12.125 Of others, right, And he said, I have to do 0:44:12.205 --> 0:44:13.725 it to see the women. 0:44:13.885 --> 0:44:17.005 Yeah you can read that either way, can't you? Like 0:44:17.085 --> 0:44:19.325 it's I think he has to do it because it's 0:44:19.405 --> 0:44:21.085 legally he has to do it right. 0:44:21.205 --> 0:44:23.365 I mean, I've got a good story with that. Sorry. 0:44:23.485 --> 0:44:25.925 When all the girls met a bit earlier, so I 0:44:25.965 --> 0:44:28.445 brought my mom. I had a lot of friends from 0:44:28.485 --> 0:44:32.365 Mannipa that came. The police and the victim services woman 0:44:32.405 --> 0:44:35.685 took us into the voyer to wait together and go up. 0:44:36.285 --> 0:44:39.685 He unfortunately came in at that time. He saw us 0:44:39.685 --> 0:44:41.845 all sitting there. I was kind of close to him. 0:44:42.245 --> 0:44:45.005 He looked at my partner, Chris, and he told. 0:44:44.885 --> 0:44:48.485 Chris he was sorry. Oh, and then he got up 0:44:48.485 --> 0:44:51.445 in the lift. I told him to turn around. 0:44:51.565 --> 0:44:53.765 But I just thought it was very interesting that you 0:44:53.805 --> 0:44:57.805 pick the only male partner there to say sorry too 0:44:57.885 --> 0:45:01.005 instead of me. I was his friend, Chris wasn't even 0:45:01.005 --> 0:45:01.845 his good friend. 0:45:03.365 --> 0:45:05.925 Do you think because he couldn't look at you? Or 0:45:05.925 --> 0:45:12.525 do you think through his own admitted history of violent pornography, 0:45:12.805 --> 0:45:16.005 we know that that diminishes women. Yeah, in the eyes 0:45:16.045 --> 0:45:18.045 of the man. Do you think it was? Which do 0:45:18.125 --> 0:45:19.005 you think it was? 0:45:19.205 --> 0:45:21.645 Or I don't think he was a range Because when 0:45:21.685 --> 0:45:24.965 we were in court, and I find this very interesting 0:45:25.125 --> 0:45:29.285 as well, we all sat like all the women sat 0:45:29.405 --> 0:45:31.525 very close. All the front row was the women you know, 0:45:31.605 --> 0:45:34.405 and we knew each other, we had met now before. 0:45:34.485 --> 0:45:38.205 We were holding hands very first, because there was two 0:45:38.285 --> 0:45:41.405 different ones. The first one he sat in our eye 0:45:41.605 --> 0:45:43.045 and if you looked at him, he didn't put his 0:45:43.045 --> 0:45:44.965 head down. He would look right back at you. There 0:45:45.045 --> 0:45:49.885 was no shame there. He looked very fine, like this circle, 0:45:49.925 --> 0:45:51.045 like not smiling or anything. 0:45:51.045 --> 0:45:53.765 He's not like But how long was the court case? 0:45:53.805 --> 0:45:56.445 By the way, it was just two days, two days, 0:45:56.445 --> 0:46:00.885 two days, two long days because he pleaded guilty or. 0:46:00.925 --> 0:46:03.685 Guilty, yeah, all of the charges, so twenty six women 0:46:04.285 --> 0:46:06.085 and then they rolled up all the charges, so I 0:46:06.125 --> 0:46:08.645 had something like fifty something of them, but they rolled 0:46:08.685 --> 0:46:11.085 them all into one charge. But when they were reading 0:46:11.165 --> 0:46:13.285 that at the beginning of the court case as well, 0:46:13.365 --> 0:46:14.965 they have to read out every single one, and it 0:46:15.005 --> 0:46:18.605 went for about forty minutes, just right, It's crazy. But 0:46:18.645 --> 0:46:21.765 when he got up to give his whatever they call it, 0:46:22.245 --> 0:46:24.365 my friend had said to me, you know, I don't 0:46:24.365 --> 0:46:25.765 want to be in this room when he does. 0:46:26.005 --> 0:46:28.485 He has nothing to say to me. Does anyone want 0:46:28.485 --> 0:46:30.125 to do that with me? And I was like, I 0:46:30.165 --> 0:46:30.885 feel that way too. 0:46:31.005 --> 0:46:33.805 I don't want to hear his reasons for doing it. 0:46:33.845 --> 0:46:35.845 And I don't want to hear that he's sorry. So 0:46:35.885 --> 0:46:37.045 we got up and we left. 0:46:37.405 --> 0:46:39.765 My partner stayed in there, and really. 0:46:39.485 --> 0:46:42.405 All he was saying, and it came up later, is 0:46:42.445 --> 0:46:45.205 that he thought it would just be an internet thing. 0:46:45.405 --> 0:46:50.245 It was online harm, not real world hard. And the 0:46:50.805 --> 0:46:53.325 judge did not like that in the end remarks that 0:46:53.405 --> 0:46:56.645 she made right, And he was giving out our full names, 0:46:56.685 --> 0:47:01.245 our number addresses, like were the subways we live in, 0:47:01.445 --> 0:47:02.525 and our occupations. 0:47:02.725 --> 0:47:03.645 So I don't know, and I. 0:47:03.645 --> 0:47:06.765 Got all those messages from random men. It's real world harmed. 0:47:07.045 --> 0:47:07.445 He's done. 0:47:07.525 --> 0:47:10.685 So he said this after he's heard all the victim 0:47:10.725 --> 0:47:14.285 impact statements. Yeah, and what did you say in your 0:47:14.445 --> 0:47:15.725 victim impact statement? 0:47:16.765 --> 0:47:19.565 Look, it's quite long, I guess. 0:47:20.805 --> 0:47:27.885 You know, they ask you to go through the ways monetarily, emotionally. 0:47:27.285 --> 0:47:29.885 And all of these things. I think the big takeaways 0:47:29.885 --> 0:47:32.965 from mine, other than the money and stuff like that. 0:47:33.085 --> 0:47:36.645 Is it was a definite harm. It's done to Chris 0:47:37.045 --> 0:47:40.085 and Mine's relationship. You know, taken these years from us. 0:47:40.085 --> 0:47:43.085 It's three years at this point from us where you know, 0:47:43.125 --> 0:47:46.165 our friends are having babies and they're getting married. And 0:47:46.205 --> 0:47:49.405 the other one I think is that I don't know 0:47:49.525 --> 0:47:52.085 if I'll ever make a male friend again, I think 0:47:52.165 --> 0:47:54.485 that might be done for me for my life now 0:47:54.565 --> 0:47:55.805 after having happened. 0:47:55.845 --> 0:48:01.405 I don't see how I could ever do that and 0:48:01.445 --> 0:48:04.205 fully trust someone without thinking that this could happen again. 0:48:04.285 --> 0:48:08.405 The like complete shock to me as someone that I 0:48:08.405 --> 0:48:12.405 thought was pretty good at that's like vetting people that 0:48:12.485 --> 0:48:14.445 this could fly kind of under my radar. 0:48:14.765 --> 0:48:17.925 Has been like world rocking. 0:48:18.405 --> 0:48:24.285 So it did occur to me to wonder about the 0:48:24.365 --> 0:48:28.445 effect it's had on your relationship with Chris. Because your 0:48:28.525 --> 0:48:32.005 partner is and you've been with him so steadfastly for 0:48:32.085 --> 0:48:38.205 thirteen years. He's at once your protector, he's your friend, 0:48:38.405 --> 0:48:41.925 he's your confidante. He's also supposed to be your lover. 0:48:44.005 --> 0:48:47.685 How do you navigate all of that going forward? When 0:48:49.205 --> 0:48:53.005 you've seen the most abhorrent side of men, and even 0:48:53.085 --> 0:48:56.965 though he's a most honorable man and a champion of 0:48:57.005 --> 0:48:59.845 you to the point where I find it quite moving 0:48:59.885 --> 0:49:04.605 and beautiful, how do you as a woman do that? 0:49:05.205 --> 0:49:08.605 I think, in my smart brain, you've got to realize 0:49:08.605 --> 0:49:11.325 it and is he has to be an outlier, even 0:49:11.325 --> 0:49:13.645 though that you've seen so many men on that website, 0:49:13.685 --> 0:49:15.765 there were so many men there were so many threads 0:49:15.765 --> 0:49:19.565 about Sydney girls, people being their actual needs being posted 0:49:19.605 --> 0:49:22.245 on there like crazy, the amount of people from Sydney 0:49:22.245 --> 0:49:26.605 that were on there, And you have to I guess 0:49:26.645 --> 0:49:28.885 you work through it a lot, like obviously I go 0:49:28.965 --> 0:49:32.405 to therapy now and stuff like that. But Chris, there 0:49:32.445 --> 0:49:34.325 has to be some good ones, just the same way 0:49:34.365 --> 0:49:37.525 as I guess there are going to be some really 0:49:37.605 --> 0:49:41.925 evil ones. And he has been so strong for me 0:49:42.085 --> 0:49:45.205 through it, and you know, such a support and not 0:49:45.325 --> 0:49:49.125 just a support, just so overtly against what Andy has 0:49:49.165 --> 0:49:51.845 done and been a support for the women and spend 0:49:51.845 --> 0:49:53.645 all of his time for those other women as well. 0:49:53.765 --> 0:49:56.565 So you know, I guess you just got to remember that, 0:49:56.725 --> 0:49:57.965 you know what what. 0:49:59.685 --> 0:50:02.845 Told. Do you think it's taken on him? Because it was? 0:50:03.005 --> 0:50:07.245 It's hard to tell with him because he's just so steadfast. 0:50:08.605 --> 0:50:10.365 What do you think it's cost him? 0:50:11.165 --> 0:50:14.125 I don't think that you can look at that website. 0:50:13.645 --> 0:50:15.925 For that much time and not have some kind of 0:50:16.005 --> 0:50:19.765 yea emotional I think it was probably harder on him 0:50:19.805 --> 0:50:23.045 at the very beginning, you know, very shocking. He had, 0:50:23.485 --> 0:50:25.685 as he said in the Australian story, like he had 0:50:25.685 --> 0:50:26.445 a panic attack. 0:50:26.525 --> 0:50:28.605 He's never had born things like that. 0:50:29.925 --> 0:50:32.125 I think what we are really good at together is 0:50:32.165 --> 0:50:34.525 talking about this, like we have never kind of. 0:50:35.445 --> 0:50:36.725 Kept it to ourselves. 0:50:36.805 --> 0:50:39.285 We always talked about how we were feeling together, and 0:50:39.325 --> 0:50:42.765 we always approached it together. So I think he's doing well, 0:50:43.325 --> 0:50:45.645 but you do have to just constantly check in and 0:50:45.685 --> 0:50:48.925 just make sure because that website is so toxic that 0:50:49.565 --> 0:50:53.565 time spent on it is. But I do think that 0:50:53.845 --> 0:50:57.525 as we got this resolution, it's very I don't know 0:50:57.565 --> 0:50:59.685 what the word is. It's not good, but it's like 0:51:00.245 --> 0:51:03.205 vindicating all of that work he put in, you know, 0:51:04.205 --> 0:51:04.565 all of. 0:51:04.525 --> 0:51:05.965 The time, all of the pushing. 0:51:06.125 --> 0:51:10.205 It really led to this result, and the result is incredible. 0:51:10.645 --> 0:51:12.645 The result was he got. 0:51:12.485 --> 0:51:17.085 Five and a half years non parole nine years older. Yeah, 0:51:17.165 --> 0:51:17.685 which is. 0:51:17.805 --> 0:51:19.885 Like unheard of, unheard of. 0:51:21.165 --> 0:51:24.565 And we were told and the police select to say 0:51:24.565 --> 0:51:25.885 that they didn't tell us this, but I don't know 0:51:25.925 --> 0:51:28.245 these words. Before they told me this, he was he 0:51:28.405 --> 0:51:31.445 was likely to get a non custodial sentence and. 0:51:31.285 --> 0:51:33.925 Then which means he doesn't go to jail, and. 0:51:33.885 --> 0:51:38.165 Then he would get something called a community corrections order. 0:51:38.765 --> 0:51:39.925 I didn't know what that was, so I. 0:51:39.845 --> 0:51:42.525 Looked it up, but physically, you just you go don't 0:51:42.565 --> 0:51:42.925 go to jail. 0:51:43.005 --> 0:51:44.165 You go to jail, but you just got to be 0:51:44.165 --> 0:51:46.485 good for a little bit. So I thinking that was 0:51:46.525 --> 0:51:48.605 going to happen that day, and all the girls did 0:51:48.605 --> 0:51:50.885 because I told them that that's what I was told. 0:51:52.125 --> 0:51:56.365 We were just shocked when she read it out, like 0:51:56.445 --> 0:51:59.245 we crah. 0:51:58.485 --> 0:52:03.325 Like there was because I think the lawyers knew. Obviously 0:52:03.405 --> 0:52:03.845 they knew. 0:52:04.245 --> 0:52:07.445 And that second day in court, he looked completely different 0:52:07.445 --> 0:52:08.765 because he'd been to jail for a week. 0:52:08.765 --> 0:52:11.885 They put him in jail between two ones. His head 0:52:12.005 --> 0:52:12.765 was down, he. 0:52:12.805 --> 0:52:15.485 Was in his a jump suit, and so we were 0:52:15.525 --> 0:52:17.925 still thinking he wasn't going to jail. We don't know 0:52:17.965 --> 0:52:21.565 what we're thinking. We decided even a week would be amazing. 0:52:21.885 --> 0:52:24.805 And then when she said that, like we gasped and 0:52:24.925 --> 0:52:27.925 everyone cried, and we had girls over the other aisle 0:52:27.965 --> 0:52:30.685 and we ran into them because we were told was chill. 0:52:31.725 --> 0:52:34.085 We ran into the middle and like hugged and it 0:52:34.165 --> 0:52:36.045 was just like, I'll never. 0:52:35.925 --> 0:52:39.325 Forget it, And how is he did you think to 0:52:39.405 --> 0:52:41.565 clock him in that moment looked to him. 0:52:41.605 --> 0:52:45.565 He did nothing. Nothing. I think I think he I think. 0:52:45.405 --> 0:52:48.205 Maybe the lawyers all knew that this was happening. But 0:52:48.725 --> 0:52:51.805 I mean, we're not any real part of it. It 0:52:51.885 --> 0:52:55.285 turns out these things you don't get told anything. No, 0:52:55.645 --> 0:52:57.645 so he had no reaction and then then. 0:52:58.445 --> 0:53:05.005 But very I mean, it was a vindicating It was 0:53:05.045 --> 0:53:09.605 a vindication for you. And also because so often the 0:53:09.605 --> 0:53:16.205 the victims of sexual crimes are suffer twice. Women suffer 0:53:16.285 --> 0:53:20.765 twice minimum twice, because there's the crime, there's what you 0:53:20.845 --> 0:53:23.485 have to take away with and live with, and then 0:53:23.525 --> 0:53:27.805 there's also this this whole the strata of how you're 0:53:27.845 --> 0:53:30.165 broken down as a victim as whatever. 0:53:30.845 --> 0:53:31.165 Yeah. 0:53:31.605 --> 0:53:38.285 Yeah, and you were believed yeah and it yeah, yeah, 0:53:38.565 --> 0:53:42.565 so shocking, and I think it was very vindicating. 0:53:42.565 --> 0:53:44.645 But as you said as well, you know, the judge 0:53:44.685 --> 0:53:46.965 read out all of the things he'd said, and she 0:53:47.125 --> 0:53:49.645 was trying to make a point that these things deserve the. 0:53:49.605 --> 0:53:54.325 Amount of time. But you're sitting there just very like, I. 0:53:54.245 --> 0:53:55.725 Don't know if the other women had heard all of 0:53:55.725 --> 0:53:58.805 the things, because I have put together. 0:53:58.525 --> 0:54:00.685 But you're like, well this is quite really scotoitizing. 0:54:01.725 --> 0:54:05.645 Yes, they have yes, heard it, like yeah, oh, it's 0:54:05.765 --> 0:54:07.125 just I don't know. 0:54:07.205 --> 0:54:09.005 And his family was there and they. 0:54:08.925 --> 0:54:15.205 Were, oh, oh my god, this is Australia's Criminal Code 0:54:15.285 --> 0:54:19.205 was amended in August of this year to sentence anyone 0:54:19.245 --> 0:54:24.645 guilty of creating non consensual deep fake sexually explicit material 0:54:25.725 --> 0:54:27.885 to up to seven years in prison. Do you think 0:54:27.885 --> 0:54:29.365 it was a result of your case. 0:54:30.685 --> 0:54:34.365 No, it was already on the cards, so I don't 0:54:34.365 --> 0:54:37.205 know if it's that specific one. But because Andy spent 0:54:37.325 --> 0:54:39.685 so long posting about me, I think it was two years, 0:54:39.685 --> 0:54:41.965 two and a half years. The very end of my 0:54:42.125 --> 0:54:46.405 stuff would fall under the new stuff that right, But 0:54:46.485 --> 0:54:48.885 it was so few as opposed to the six hundred 0:54:48.885 --> 0:54:51.005 other ones he posted me that they just went, no, 0:54:51.245 --> 0:54:52.205 do it for the old one. 0:54:52.325 --> 0:54:55.085 He's going to get more anyway, right, So no, I 0:54:55.085 --> 0:54:57.285 think that was already coming in. But I think it's 0:54:57.405 --> 0:54:58.445 so important. 0:54:58.485 --> 0:55:00.445 I hope it means that women don't have to or 0:55:00.525 --> 0:55:03.085 men who have this happened to them don't have to 0:55:03.125 --> 0:55:07.845 absolutely battle through to get any kind of justice, because 0:55:07.845 --> 0:55:11.605 it shouldn't mean, you know, all that money, all that 0:55:11.765 --> 0:55:14.285 time we spent and having these kind of connections we 0:55:14.405 --> 0:55:16.925 had to this lawyer and all sorts of stuff, that 0:55:17.205 --> 0:55:19.565 you get justice for twenty six women. 0:55:20.205 --> 0:55:23.245 And also you had someone by your side, and. 0:55:23.085 --> 0:55:24.645 That's exactly right as well. 0:55:24.805 --> 0:55:27.525 I mean, you just everything had to fall in place 0:55:27.565 --> 0:55:28.965 for this one to happen. 0:55:29.525 --> 0:55:31.685 And this online person they got in contact with me. 0:55:32.205 --> 0:55:38.285 Just that's amazing, isn't it. Yeah, and actually tried you 0:55:38.445 --> 0:55:42.125 twice just to under an alias as well. Just click 0:55:42.165 --> 0:55:42.725 on this link. 0:55:42.965 --> 0:55:45.645 Yeah, and he still keeps in contact with me today. 0:55:45.685 --> 0:55:47.485 I mean, he was part of the story too, you know, 0:55:48.365 --> 0:55:50.605 just is a genuinely good person. 0:55:51.485 --> 0:55:55.125 So, Hannah, even though and his work, his life, work's 0:55:55.165 --> 0:55:59.925 been shut down on the internet, the Internet being what 0:56:00.005 --> 0:56:04.365 it is, these images of you, these adopted images are 0:56:04.925 --> 0:56:05.445 out there. 0:56:07.125 --> 0:56:12.045 Yeah, So Chris and I pay for a subscription service 0:56:12.045 --> 0:56:14.805 and it kind of searches the whole internet for my face, 0:56:15.365 --> 0:56:17.405 and so quite often they. 0:56:17.285 --> 0:56:17.965 Still pop up. 0:56:18.045 --> 0:56:20.885 They're on different websites now, so obviously they're not Andy 0:56:20.965 --> 0:56:23.405 because he's in prison, but they're just people that have 0:56:23.445 --> 0:56:26.525 copied them. They're bots hosting them to other porn sites. 0:56:26.525 --> 0:56:29.205 And when they do pop up, they have my name on. 0:56:29.125 --> 0:56:30.085 Them as well. 0:56:30.365 --> 0:56:33.245 And so the way we have dealt with it is 0:56:33.285 --> 0:56:35.525 we ask the police, and the police have been able 0:56:35.525 --> 0:56:37.845 to take most of them down, but they're only taking 0:56:37.845 --> 0:56:40.365 the ones down that we've found and so. 0:56:40.365 --> 0:56:41.725 It's like playing whack a mole. 0:56:41.845 --> 0:56:44.725 Yeah, I mean, and then new ones turn up that 0:56:44.765 --> 0:56:48.085 I haven't even seen, so whether they were on a 0:56:48.125 --> 0:56:50.045 different website that we've never seen before. 0:56:50.525 --> 0:56:52.965 I mean, it's just constant. So for me, it's going 0:56:53.005 --> 0:56:55.045 to be something I think I can tend with for 0:56:55.165 --> 0:56:56.045 my whole life. 0:56:56.085 --> 0:56:58.845 So I guess if I have children, or if I 0:56:59.045 --> 0:57:01.125 get a new job, it's always going to be something 0:57:01.205 --> 0:57:04.325 that I have to explain to people because they will. 0:57:04.125 --> 0:57:05.005 Be there forever. 0:57:06.125 --> 0:57:11.405 Hey, what happened. I'm imagining you're because you're a school teacher. 0:57:11.445 --> 0:57:12.565 You had to tell the school. 0:57:12.885 --> 0:57:14.325 Yeah, I told the school immediately. 0:57:14.485 --> 0:57:17.485 So on that first day after I'd gone to the police, 0:57:18.085 --> 0:57:20.285 because I just thought they could just send them to 0:57:20.365 --> 0:57:22.965 the school, and I need them to know that's not 0:57:23.045 --> 0:57:23.325 of me. 0:57:24.445 --> 0:57:26.805 So I immediately went to the school. 0:57:26.965 --> 0:57:30.125 I'm very lucky. You know, it's an independent school and 0:57:30.165 --> 0:57:32.085 they have just had my back the whole way through. 0:57:32.245 --> 0:57:36.285 You know, they immediately, well not immediately understand it. You 0:57:36.325 --> 0:57:38.205 have to explain to people. I find this is the 0:57:38.245 --> 0:57:40.725 worst part about this kind of deep fake pawn. 0:57:41.085 --> 0:57:44.245 I guess on a professional level is you have. 0:57:44.245 --> 0:57:48.765 To explain what it looks like it's not you, you know, 0:57:49.645 --> 0:57:52.565 and it's damaging in these ways to you, and you've 0:57:52.565 --> 0:57:54.965 got it. It's just such an awkward conversation to have, 0:57:55.245 --> 0:57:55.445 you know. 0:57:55.645 --> 0:57:57.165 And then of course your students. 0:57:57.645 --> 0:58:00.125 Yeah, so no, I did that at the very beginning, 0:58:00.205 --> 0:58:02.645 so they were knew right at the get go, and 0:58:02.685 --> 0:58:08.525 then the girls only knew right before the Australian story. 0:58:08.245 --> 0:58:11.365 Came out, right, And how is it now with them? 0:58:11.765 --> 0:58:14.525 Oh, I mean they're just amazing, you know. 0:58:14.925 --> 0:58:17.405 They I have like right now, I'm just looking at 0:58:17.445 --> 0:58:20.125 they're like, I got, you know, this massive bunch of flowers. 0:58:20.165 --> 0:58:22.365 I got this anonymous bunch of flowers from the girls 0:58:22.445 --> 0:58:23.165 just saying you know. 0:58:23.365 --> 0:58:25.525 Oh, it's just the sweetest cut ever. I can't read 0:58:25.605 --> 0:58:26.605 out our cry, but you. 0:58:26.565 --> 0:58:29.365 Know this is from your I don't know. 0:58:29.405 --> 0:58:31.565 They just put it on my desk, the bengest thing 0:58:31.605 --> 0:58:33.605 I've ever read, and with a bunch of flowers. 0:58:33.725 --> 0:58:35.485 This was the day after I came back from court. 0:58:36.125 --> 0:58:37.165 Okay, dear miss. 0:58:37.005 --> 0:58:39.845 Brundy, we hope you are well. We wanted to tell. 0:58:39.725 --> 0:58:41.685 You that we think what you did was really brave 0:58:41.765 --> 0:58:43.845 and we really look up to you and how you 0:58:43.885 --> 0:58:46.805 were able to speak out it really inspired us to 0:58:46.845 --> 0:58:49.765 be strong and not stay quiet. Thank you for being 0:58:49.765 --> 0:58:52.485 such a great role model. You're the best science teacher 0:58:52.525 --> 0:58:53.565 and we love you so much. 0:58:54.365 --> 0:58:58.245 Oh it's so nice, isn't it. But I got lots 0:58:58.285 --> 0:59:01.365 of things like that, and you just it was the 0:59:01.445 --> 0:59:01.965 right view. 0:59:03.045 --> 0:59:08.245 So yeah, do you know what, You're just so lovely 0:59:09.445 --> 0:59:12.125 And I don't mean that in an angel sense of lovely. 0:59:12.805 --> 0:59:17.805 I mean that you're just a valiant, beautiful, honorable woman 0:59:18.285 --> 0:59:24.765 who is deeply loved, and I hope the future rises 0:59:24.805 --> 0:59:27.125 to meet you the way that you deserve. 0:59:27.725 --> 0:59:29.405 Thank you. 0:59:29.405 --> 0:59:32.645 You may crying now, Well, I think what you're doing 0:59:32.765 --> 0:59:37.805 is so important if someone who's listening is in a 0:59:38.325 --> 0:59:46.005 similar situation. Because your first contact with the police was unsatisfactory, 0:59:47.325 --> 0:59:52.925 but subsequently it was extremely satisfactory, what would you suggest 0:59:53.085 --> 0:59:56.805 to someone who's kind of all, let's see about how 0:59:56.845 --> 1:00:00.845 to proceed pursuing justice for themselves or even to get 1:00:00.885 --> 1:00:02.085 an end to something. 1:00:03.325 --> 1:00:06.165 Yeah, it's a very difficult question. 1:00:06.445 --> 1:00:09.605 I think since my story went to air, I've had 1:00:09.605 --> 1:00:12.605 a lot of women contact me on Instagram or Facebook 1:00:12.685 --> 1:00:15.485 or things all over the place with the same problem. 1:00:17.045 --> 1:00:20.365 I don't know. I hope that because of us going 1:00:20.405 --> 1:00:21.765 and saying. 1:00:21.405 --> 1:00:24.645 These things and doing these news reports and everything, that 1:00:24.805 --> 1:00:29.365 maybe they'll have a different experience, and I I would say, 1:00:29.485 --> 1:00:30.405 just don't give up. 1:00:30.485 --> 1:00:32.445 But I think that's really difficult if you're in a 1:00:32.445 --> 1:00:37.165 different position to me. I think I just really hope 1:00:37.565 --> 1:00:39.245 that you know, they have. 1:00:39.245 --> 1:00:41.645 A different experience to me, because I don't think you 1:00:41.645 --> 1:00:42.485 should have to. 1:00:42.445 --> 1:00:44.285 Fight for this, and I don't think you should have 1:00:44.325 --> 1:00:45.125 to tell them don't. 1:00:44.925 --> 1:00:50.325 Give up, because it's actually too hard for a lot. 1:00:50.565 --> 1:00:53.325 Did you at any point think about giving up? 1:00:53.525 --> 1:00:54.605 No, I was so angry. 1:00:54.925 --> 1:00:58.565 Chris and I am a very we're the same type 1:00:58.565 --> 1:01:01.965 of person in the way that we were so so 1:01:02.325 --> 1:01:06.805 mad about this that we would have spent anything to 1:01:06.965 --> 1:01:07.725 get him in that. 1:01:07.805 --> 1:01:10.485 Jail, you know, righteous anger. 1:01:10.965 --> 1:01:14.205 Yeah, we were just you know, how can this person 1:01:14.205 --> 1:01:17.965 have done this to us? So I guess I would say, 1:01:17.965 --> 1:01:20.925 I hope they have a different experience, you know, stay strong. 1:01:21.045 --> 1:01:23.285 I would let other people know about it. Don't be 1:01:23.365 --> 1:01:26.565 embarrassed about it. People say they would be embarrassed, but 1:01:26.645 --> 1:01:29.605 for me, it's like, I don't know what you're embarrassed about. 1:01:29.645 --> 1:01:33.045 They're not photos of you, you know, they're not. And 1:01:34.365 --> 1:01:36.165 even if they were photos of you. They shouldn't be 1:01:36.165 --> 1:01:36.965 spread around the internet. 1:01:37.045 --> 1:01:41.885 But you just have to stay strong and you know, 1:01:43.205 --> 1:01:45.965 don't be ashamed of this. It's it's going to happen 1:01:46.005 --> 1:01:50.085 to a lot more people, and you know, seek help, 1:01:50.125 --> 1:01:53.405 get help from people, and you know, stay strong. 1:01:54.005 --> 1:01:55.525 What does Chris want to happen? 1:01:55.845 --> 1:01:56.965 What does Chris want to happen? 1:01:57.045 --> 1:01:57.245 Yeah? 1:01:57.325 --> 1:01:58.005 What does he want? 1:01:58.005 --> 1:01:59.205 What does he want at the moment? 1:01:59.285 --> 1:02:00.285 Yeah, what is he want? 1:02:00.525 --> 1:02:03.125 He's always looking to buy another house us from. 1:02:04.605 --> 1:02:07.205 I don't want actually maybe not bad to leave the house. 1:02:07.285 --> 1:02:11.045 Yeah, so well, look that doesn't future, you know, just 1:02:11.085 --> 1:02:13.085 a nice one and just a lot of time to 1:02:13.085 --> 1:02:16.525 spend with our friends and family and not have it 1:02:17.085 --> 1:02:20.325 this being the constant I'm doing things like this now, 1:02:20.365 --> 1:02:24.045 it's not the constant talk of our every conversation anymore. 1:02:24.085 --> 1:02:28.565 Like it's very infrequent, and it's it's lighter now, and 1:02:29.165 --> 1:02:32.005 you know, we get to joke about it. So I 1:02:32.005 --> 1:02:34.205 guess that's what we're both looking forward to, just you know, 1:02:35.085 --> 1:02:38.685 regular life, even if it's squatted with these times, you know, 1:02:38.925 --> 1:02:39.525 getting back to. 1:02:39.565 --> 1:02:43.325 Law beautiful, a simple. 1:02:43.085 --> 1:02:45.085 Life, Yeah, a simple and boring life. 1:02:46.765 --> 1:02:48.925 Well, I hope you, I hope you have a really 1:02:48.965 --> 1:02:58.005 boring life. That's my wish for you. Hannah is undeniably remarkable, 1:02:58.125 --> 1:03:03.685 isn't she. Her three year battle for justice, despite countless setbacks, 1:03:04.325 --> 1:03:08.165 highlights the challenges of navigating a legal system that's still 1:03:08.205 --> 1:03:12.565 playing catch up with complexity of Internet crimes. Through her 1:03:12.725 --> 1:03:18.285 courage and determination, Hannah has created a lasting legacy, a 1:03:18.405 --> 1:03:22.005 landmark case. In fact, it marked the first time in 1:03:22.045 --> 1:03:26.565 Australia that someone was charged with sharing digitally altered intimate 1:03:26.605 --> 1:03:31.005 images or deep fake pornography. This case has paved the 1:03:31.005 --> 1:03:34.445 way for a growing number of similar cases involving the 1:03:34.485 --> 1:03:39.805 non consensual uploading of digitally altered sexually explicit images. At 1:03:39.845 --> 1:03:44.805 Andrew Hayler's sentencing, Judge Jane Culver described the decision as 1:03:45.045 --> 1:03:51.645 an appropriate vehicle for general deterrence. Thanks to Hannah and 1:03:51.725 --> 1:03:55.805 her devoted and honorable partner and the other brave women 1:03:55.885 --> 1:03:59.885 who stood up in court, future victims of AI driven 1:03:59.925 --> 1:04:04.605 crimes now have hope for justice. The executive producer of 1:04:04.645 --> 1:04:07.845 No Filter is Naima Brown and the senior producer is 1:04:07.925 --> 1:04:12.525 Grace Ruvrey. Audio production is by Jacob Brown and I'm 1:04:12.565 --> 1:04:15.365 your host Kate lane Brook. Thank you for listening.