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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: I was terrified all the time.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's times where I'm meant to be at

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Speaker 3: school by myself on the weekend, maybe to check.

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Speaker 1: Something or be on some kind of function or something.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't go. We bought cameras for the house. I

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Speaker 1: wore an Apple Watch that would tell Chris.

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Speaker 3: When I arrived to school and when I got home

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Speaker 3: it was summer, and I wouldn't give the windows open,

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Speaker 3: just in case I was in a different room because

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Speaker 3: the things that Andy had wrote about me were so graphic.

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Speaker 2: From MoMA Mia, you're listening to No Filter. I'm Kate Langbrook,

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Speaker 2: and that is the voice of one of the bravest

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Speaker 2: women I have ever spoken to, Hannah Grundy. Hannah's story

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Speaker 2: starts somewhere familiar for a lot of us. Early days

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Speaker 2: of UNI, late nights out, making new friends over drinking games,

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Speaker 2: or maybe you were pulling long shifts at casual jobs

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Speaker 2: but forming friendships with colleagues into the early hours of

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Speaker 2: the morn. Well, that was Hannah Grundy's life when she

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Speaker 2: started studying at Sydney UNI over a decade ago, but

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Speaker 2: she could never have imagined that those friendships would ultimately

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Speaker 2: lead to the horrific unraveling of her life and the

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Speaker 2: lives of dozens small women, many of them her friends.

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Speaker 2: Hannah's nightmare, and it was a waking nightmare, began in

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Speaker 2: August twenty twenty two when she stumbled upon violent degrading

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Speaker 2: AI generated pornographic images of herself. These fake images had

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Speaker 2: been posted on truly disturbing websites alongside graphic polls encouraging

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Speaker 2: hairiness acts. The website also included her full name, her suburb,

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Speaker 2: her Instagram handle. As Hannah and her partner Chris dove

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Speaker 2: deeper into the site, they discovered more women they knew,

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Speaker 2: friends and colleagues, and realized this wasn't random. Determined to

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Speaker 2: uncover the source, they embarked on their own investigation, only

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Speaker 2: to uncover the person behind it all was one of

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Speaker 2: their closest friends. This story feels almost unreal. It's like

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Speaker 2: something out of a dark thriller. Yet for nearly three years,

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Speaker 2: Hannah and Chris live this piecing together each twisted detail,

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Speaker 2: fighting against the faceless world of the Internet. And the

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Speaker 2: unchecked power of AI. Hannah's story is a stark reminder

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Speaker 2: of the damage anonymity and advanced technology can cause in

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Speaker 2: the wrong hands. But more than that, it's a story

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Speaker 2: of extraordinary resilience. What struck me most about Hannah was

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Speaker 2: her unwavering strength, her courage, her relentless pursuit of justice,

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Speaker 2: a powerful testament to personal and legal perseverance. And because

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Speaker 2: Hannah is a school teacher, I had to start today's

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Speaker 2: interview on my best behavior. Good afternoon, miss Grundy.

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Speaker 1: Good afternoon. Oh gosh, I haven't heard that for a

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Speaker 1: while in class.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, are you a first name teacher or

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Speaker 2: a surname teacher?

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Speaker 1: So I definitely a sturname teacher. But the girls don't.

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Speaker 3: Often say the good afternoon, missus Grundy anymore.

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Speaker 2: No, No, they're too resentful, they're too tired. Can you

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Speaker 2: take me back in time to a place called the

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Speaker 2: Manning Bar where something wonderful happened with you increase? Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Look, I had just moved up to Sydney from Wollongong.

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Speaker 1: I was very young.

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Speaker 3: I had worked in bars for a couple of years

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Speaker 3: down there, and so I thought it would be nice

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Speaker 3: for me to work in Manning Bar because I could

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Speaker 3: make some friends in Sydney that way, and that's pretty

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Speaker 3: much where my core social group has come from. And

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Speaker 3: when I was at Manning Bar, I met my partner Chris,

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Speaker 3: and he was another bartender there, and we're going on

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Speaker 3: I think thirteen years now.

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Speaker 2: So okay, so you were both were you both students

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Speaker 2: at the time and it was the UNI bar?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so were both students at Sydney Uni.

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Speaker 3: I was taking signs at that point and he was

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Speaker 3: taking engineering and maths, so our paths probably wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: crossed otherwise.

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Speaker 1: So very lucky to have worked there.

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Speaker 2: You increase. Was it a love at first sight or

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Speaker 2: was it you were hanging out in a group and

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Speaker 2: then you kind of went I think he might like me.

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Speaker 3: Look, he actually kept coming to the bar when I

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Speaker 3: was working to put in his resume as he just

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Speaker 3: moved up from Blue Blue Mountains, but the resume still

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Speaker 3: said the Blue Mountains, so I kept.

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Speaker 1: Putting it in the bin.

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Speaker 3: It was silly, but he so wanted to work there

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Speaker 3: that he and he just moved. So he eventually said

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Speaker 3: he would work for free, and the bar manager said

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Speaker 3: all right, then get him in.

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Speaker 2: Really he is now, you said, the Manning Bar became

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Speaker 2: such a one of those pivotal places like Central Perk.

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Speaker 2: You know, it sounds like you all hung out and

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Speaker 2: you made amazing lifelong friends. Can you tell me a

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Speaker 2: little bit about your group from there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know, working in a bar, you

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Speaker 3: end up working on the days where everyone else is

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Speaker 3: going out. So you miss a Friday night, you missed

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Speaker 3: the Saturday night, miss.

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Speaker 1: All of the good nights.

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Speaker 3: So when you work with a group of very young

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Speaker 3: people that are your age at the bar, you always

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Speaker 3: hang out together, so you go out for drinks afterwards,

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Speaker 3: you stay back for drinks at the workplace. You know,

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Speaker 3: Newtown is such a cool place to be and it's

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Speaker 3: open all night. We would just hang out together. So

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Speaker 3: we were a really really strong group of ten or

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Speaker 3: fifteen people, and birthdays, we went on holidays together the

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Speaker 3: whole time I wasn't Manning.

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Speaker 1: That was just my core social group those kind of

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Speaker 1: formative years. They are your best friends, so we hang

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Speaker 1: out for all.

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Speaker 3: Of our big occasions, even though our lives kind of

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Speaker 3: went in separate directions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's interesting because you and Chris ended up

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Speaker 2: becoming a couple, and sometimes when that happens, you kind

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Speaker 2: of move away a little bit from your single friends

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Speaker 2: or from those friends that you met when you were single.

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Speaker 2: But that didn't happen with you, guys. You kind of

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Speaker 2: stayed tight with a core.

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Speaker 1: Look.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we stayed very tight. I think it because we're

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Speaker 3: all in different parts of our lives. So I guess

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Speaker 3: some of us got married, and then some of us

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Speaker 3: had babies, and some of us just stayed single and

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Speaker 3: did all sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: So it was almost like a family.

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Speaker 3: You just if you saw one of them, even if

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Speaker 3: you hadn't seen them for six months, seven months, it

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Speaker 3: was like you hadn't had any time past.

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Speaker 2: And so you and Chrease have. You're living your best lives,

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Speaker 2: You've just bought a house, You're really embedded as a couple,

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Speaker 2: and then do you get a strange message from someone.

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Speaker 3: I had been getting a couple of strange things on

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Speaker 3: all of my social media's and then they're kind of

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Speaker 3: They've been closed for ten years since I became a teacher,

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Speaker 3: and I started getting more random messages from men. But

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Speaker 3: I just ignored them because I thought that's what it

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Speaker 3: is to be a girl on the internet you just ignored.

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Speaker 3: But I do remember saying to Chris, I think my

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Speaker 3: email's turned up somewhere, or something has happened, something has happened,

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Speaker 3: my name's come up.

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Speaker 2: So because this is what was the nature of those messages.

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Speaker 3: They were sexual or they were creepy, and they acted

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Speaker 3: like they knew me. And there was a couple that

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Speaker 3: had photos of me in them that were just taking

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Speaker 3: off my account but like menacing. But right still, they

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Speaker 3: didn't have enough in them for me to think it

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Speaker 3: wasn't just that I had turned up somewhere and these

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Speaker 3: were just random creeps.

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Speaker 1: So I just deleted them straight away.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of a this used to happen when

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Speaker 3: my Facebook was open, ah, And so I got an

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Speaker 3: email and it went to my spam folder. And this

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Speaker 3: is in around twenty twenty two, it might've been twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty one at the very end. And it just was

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Speaker 3: a forward from another email to a woman who I

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Speaker 3: won't say her name, and it said that there were

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Speaker 3: pictures of her online and that he could help figure

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Speaker 3: out who it was if we went to the police.

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Speaker 3: And all mine was was just a forward of that,

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Speaker 3: and it said this is happening.

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Speaker 1: To you too.

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Speaker 3: Hammer. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I just thought that was so random that I didn't

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Speaker 1: do anything.

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Speaker 3: And then I kept getting I got another one and

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Speaker 3: I ignored that too, And then the one that really

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Speaker 3: kind of got me to act was one that was

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Speaker 3: addressed to me.

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Speaker 2: How much longer after the first one.

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Speaker 3: I'd ignored them for about three months, it was only

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Speaker 3: two at that point.

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Speaker 1: But they just they didn't give me anything to do.

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Speaker 3: They said, you know, if you have a police complaint,

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Speaker 3: I will talk to the police.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what anything they.

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Speaker 1: Were talking about.

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Speaker 3: So the one that made me act it was addressed

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Speaker 3: directly to me, and it said that a man was

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Speaker 3: posting pictures of me online. It had a link in

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Speaker 3: it and it said the above link contains disturbing material.

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Speaker 3: Might beware. And I got that when I was home alone.

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Speaker 3: And I know not to click a.

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Speaker 2: Link from Suing. We've all learned that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just waited for my partner to get home

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Speaker 3: until we opened it.

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Speaker 1: We both looked at it.

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Speaker 3: We sat with it for a second and we thought, look,

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Speaker 3: best not to click that link. But if we just

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Speaker 3: put the link into Google and search it, then that's

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Speaker 3: a bit safer, and so when we did that, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm you know, I still think it was I still

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Speaker 3: thought it was fake, you know, I just I had

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Speaker 3: no idea and kind of Chris went into the computer

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Speaker 3: room and he did that, and I'm waiting there really

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Speaker 3: like so shocked, and I just remember him. He turned

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Speaker 3: the iPad to me and he.

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Speaker 1: Just scrolled through and.

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Speaker 3: It's a forum based kind of website, so it's post

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Speaker 3: after post, and there was just like he would have

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Speaker 3: easily done ten or fifteen photos of me of you. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: pornographic photos of me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so not photos of you, and yet photos of.

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Speaker 3: You, Yeah, hardcore porn, degrading porn, violent porn of me.

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Speaker 3: And then yeah, my face had been kind of superimposed

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Speaker 3: on the women in them.

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Speaker 2: So in that moment and after, what is that that

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Speaker 2: is between you and Chris and the computer? Is it disbelief?

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Speaker 3: I don't think it was disbelief because there were so

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Speaker 3: many right pay real fear because it was immediately obvious

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Speaker 3: that someone had spent hours and hours and hours doing it.

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Speaker 3: You know, some of them were really pathetic efforts at photoshop,

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Speaker 3: and then some of them are convincing AI And so

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Speaker 3: this person had obviously spent many, many, many nights, and

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Speaker 3: that's just on the first look of what we saw

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Speaker 3: doing it, and so I was just, I think, really

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Speaker 3: really scared at first.

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Speaker 2: What did you do? What did you decide to do?

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Speaker 2: Did you spend the night in discussing it or like what?

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Speaker 2: That has got to be one of the most radical

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Speaker 2: shifts in mood and one of those moments in which

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Speaker 2: you know that your life is radically shifting. Course.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it definitely was, because look, I just started

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Speaker 3: back at school that.

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Speaker 1: Term and everything was going.

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Speaker 3: So well for us, and it just crashed down on

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Speaker 3: us like a ton of bricks. So I guess after

225
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Speaker 3: i'd seen I think maybe that first page of posts

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Speaker 3: the thread was ten to twelve pages at that point,

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Speaker 3: it got larger and all sorts of other things came up.

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Speaker 3: I just saw that one page and that many and

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Speaker 3: I had to come into a different room because I

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Speaker 3: just said, if I see any more of that, I

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Speaker 3: think I would break down. I need to not see

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Speaker 3: myself in those positions. I cannot deal with that.

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Speaker 1: So I came in here.

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Speaker 3: I came into the lounge room still freaking out. Chris

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Speaker 3: went through it a bit more. I guess what we

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Speaker 3: decided to do. We both kind of I guess, I

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Speaker 3: don't know what we would say.

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Speaker 1: We just wanted to be able to do something about it.

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Speaker 3: So what ended up happening is Chris went through it

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Speaker 3: enough that we stilled to notice that the same person

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Speaker 3: was posting our friends as well from Manning Bar.

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Speaker 2: So there were how many girls that you worked with

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Speaker 2: at Manning Bar were.

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Speaker 1: Also This is a hard one.

245
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Speaker 2: I'm in the in the images.

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Speaker 3: To the police had around sixty women on it. Twenty

247
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Speaker 3: six went to court and we were in on what

248
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Speaker 3: happened with us. But the ones that I saw that

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Speaker 3: were my friends. There was two very close friends of mine,

250
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Speaker 3: and then there was quite a few people that had

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Speaker 3: either come to the bar who worked briefly at the bar,

252
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Speaker 3: but they.

253
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Speaker 1: Didn't show up as much. It was mainly two of

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Speaker 1: my friends that were.

255
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Speaker 2: So you worked out pretty quickly that the link was

256
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Speaker 2: Manning Bar.

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Speaker 3: What we worked at originally is that when you look

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Speaker 3: at all the pictures, you can tell which photos they

259
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Speaker 3: come from. I don't have a huge social media presence,

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Speaker 3: so I could tell from a pornographic image, oh, actually

261
00:14:03,645 --> 00:14:06,325
Speaker 3: that's my face from my engagement photo, or that's my

262
00:14:06,445 --> 00:14:12,605
Speaker 3: face from women's wedding. So you do that, it started

263
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Speaker 3: to look like it was just one of our friends.

264
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Speaker 3: And then when we saw these other women, yeah, and

265
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Speaker 3: we plugged them into Facebook. We just kept churning them

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Speaker 3: into Facebook. And there was lots that weren't from Manny,

267
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Speaker 3: but they were from other bars around Sydney and you

268
00:14:27,925 --> 00:14:29,765
Speaker 3: could just put them into Facebook and see who had

269
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Speaker 3: mutual friends with And so we did that the whole night.

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Speaker 3: We just spent Christals on the couch with the iPad.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to see it, yeah, but he would

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Speaker 3: yell out a name and I would plug it into

273
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Speaker 3: my phone like Instagram and Facebook, and we'd write down

274
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Speaker 3: all the people that were connected. And we just kept

275
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Speaker 3: doing that and doing that until we got so small

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Speaker 3: the group.

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Speaker 2: So how small was the group that you narrowed it

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Speaker 2: down to?

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Speaker 3: Look, we very early in the night narrowed it down

280
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Speaker 3: to three, and we were sure it would be some

281
00:15:03,205 --> 00:15:04,845
Speaker 3: of them more than others, you know what I mean,

282
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Speaker 3: Like we were just really hoping, I guess that it

283
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Speaker 3: would be some of them other than others.

284
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Speaker 1: But these three kind of work together.

285
00:15:12,125 --> 00:15:14,605
Speaker 3: They're very good friends that've been in lots of bars together,

286
00:15:14,645 --> 00:15:16,645
Speaker 3: so it was quind of hard to discern them. But

287
00:15:16,685 --> 00:15:20,205
Speaker 3: what ended up happening is who it was post of

288
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Speaker 3: these was completely random people off the internet.

289
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Speaker 1: And then it just became very obvious. Right, Yeah, so

290
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Speaker 1: we got it down to the one that night.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you knew that night who it was.

292
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

293
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Speaker 2: And even though I mean, the images are bad enough,

294
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Speaker 2: but there was a rolling poll I understand up at

295
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Speaker 2: the top of the page that was basically saying inviting

296
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Speaker 2: men to vote or to participate in saying how they

297
00:15:52,365 --> 00:15:54,045
Speaker 2: would like to rape the women.

298
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Speaker 1: Mine was called the Destruction of Hannah.

299
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Speaker 3: And then at the top there was a poll and

300
00:15:59,685 --> 00:16:03,245
Speaker 3: it said how would you rape Hannah? And then it

301
00:16:03,285 --> 00:16:06,925
Speaker 3: had you know, seven or six options. They were very graphic,

302
00:16:07,525 --> 00:16:10,045
Speaker 3: and then hundreds and hundreds of men had vote on it.

303
00:16:10,965 --> 00:16:14,845
Speaker 2: So at the end of this night, the Eve of

304
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Speaker 2: Destruction really wasn't it of your life as you knew it.

305
00:16:20,485 --> 00:16:23,845
Speaker 2: You've narrowed it down already, so straight away you start

306
00:16:23,925 --> 00:16:28,165
Speaker 2: ditch digging, really, which is interesting, and you've narrowed it

307
00:16:28,205 --> 00:16:30,005
Speaker 2: down to who you think it is, I.

308
00:16:29,925 --> 00:16:32,405
Speaker 3: Guess at the same time, and this is like Chris

309
00:16:32,485 --> 00:16:34,245
Speaker 3: is a hero for this as well he made a

310
00:16:34,285 --> 00:16:37,645
Speaker 3: doc that had because we got worried. We didn't really

311
00:16:37,685 --> 00:16:40,245
Speaker 3: realize how long this person had been doing it of me,

312
00:16:40,765 --> 00:16:43,765
Speaker 3: Like maybe he just did it all this wrong, right,

313
00:16:43,925 --> 00:16:46,325
Speaker 3: so what if you know it takes it down or

314
00:16:46,365 --> 00:16:49,205
Speaker 3: what Chris, every time you saw a quote about me,

315
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Speaker 3: he takes screenshot put in a folder. And so what

316
00:16:52,605 --> 00:16:54,805
Speaker 3: we did was we made a dock and we had

317
00:16:55,125 --> 00:16:58,885
Speaker 3: all of the women that we had gone through, and

318
00:16:58,925 --> 00:17:01,765
Speaker 3: then it was and then how they were linked to me,

319
00:17:02,045 --> 00:17:04,245
Speaker 3: how they were linked to this person, the links to

320
00:17:04,285 --> 00:17:06,605
Speaker 3: the posts and then the screenshots.

321
00:17:06,045 --> 00:17:07,085
Speaker 1: To the post and everything.

322
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Speaker 3: And so that's kind of how we busied our ourselves

323
00:17:09,765 --> 00:17:12,605
Speaker 3: that night, because I guess the idea was I was

324
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Speaker 3: going to go to the police office in the morning,

325
00:17:14,725 --> 00:17:15,885
Speaker 3: and you just want to be able.

326
00:17:15,725 --> 00:17:19,045
Speaker 2: To yeah, of course somewhat with and I.

327
00:17:19,405 --> 00:17:21,125
Speaker 3: It was feel better at the time because it was

328
00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:24,605
Speaker 3: so scared and there's nothing really you can do except

329
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Speaker 3: that then yeah.

330
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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nowhere else to turn, but also you don't

331
00:17:29,765 --> 00:17:31,725
Speaker 2: know where to go. Yeah.

332
00:17:31,765 --> 00:17:34,525
Speaker 3: Look, I've never been and I'm so lucky for this

333
00:17:34,605 --> 00:17:37,045
Speaker 3: a victim of a crime, and I've never been in

334
00:17:37,085 --> 00:17:38,405
Speaker 3: trouble for a crime either.

335
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Speaker 1: So I didn't even know.

336
00:17:39,485 --> 00:17:41,645
Speaker 3: Really what you do with it, but I knew it

337
00:17:41,685 --> 00:17:45,085
Speaker 3: wasn't an emergency, so I just thought, like, we leave

338
00:17:45,085 --> 00:17:47,485
Speaker 3: it for tonight, we sit on this, and then tomorrow morning,

339
00:17:47,965 --> 00:17:49,885
Speaker 3: fresher minds, we get up.

340
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Speaker 4: And we go.

341
00:17:51,245 --> 00:17:52,525
Speaker 2: How did you sleep that night?

342
00:17:52,805 --> 00:17:55,365
Speaker 1: Not well? Not well?

343
00:17:55,485 --> 00:17:56,725
Speaker 3: I mean I was went to be at school the

344
00:17:56,765 --> 00:17:58,405
Speaker 3: next day and it's like one of those really nice

345
00:17:58,485 --> 00:18:00,405
Speaker 3: days where I think it was a swimming carnival and

346
00:18:00,445 --> 00:18:02,885
Speaker 3: that's like precious day because you go and you just

347
00:18:02,965 --> 00:18:05,565
Speaker 3: cheer on the girls, and so you call in and

348
00:18:05,605 --> 00:18:07,885
Speaker 3: I just said I was sick. But yeah, I don't

349
00:18:07,885 --> 00:18:09,045
Speaker 3: think I slept much that night.

350
00:18:09,925 --> 00:18:12,765
Speaker 2: So you woke up in the morning and you were

351
00:18:12,805 --> 00:18:14,765
Speaker 2: resolved to go to the police. Were you and Chris

352
00:18:14,805 --> 00:18:16,405
Speaker 2: going together to the police?

353
00:18:16,805 --> 00:18:21,005
Speaker 3: No, Look, I wanted to go by myself. I still didn't,

354
00:18:21,205 --> 00:18:23,485
Speaker 3: I guess maybe get the gravity.

355
00:18:23,085 --> 00:18:26,005
Speaker 1: Of it, and I really thought that they would separate

356
00:18:26,085 --> 00:18:27,725
Speaker 1: us anyway. I don't know. I don't know how.

357
00:18:27,725 --> 00:18:29,085
Speaker 2: I woke up just in them like they were going

358
00:18:29,125 --> 00:18:31,405
Speaker 2: to interrogate youll what's I mean? Right?

359
00:18:31,645 --> 00:18:34,085
Speaker 3: And I guess I was feeling very I can do this,

360
00:18:34,085 --> 00:18:36,965
Speaker 3: this will be fun, understand me.

361
00:18:37,645 --> 00:18:38,125
Speaker 1: When I go.

362
00:18:38,565 --> 00:18:40,965
Speaker 3: So now, I called them in the morning just in

363
00:18:41,005 --> 00:18:43,725
Speaker 3: case I don't know what you do, and they just said, no,

364
00:18:43,845 --> 00:18:45,885
Speaker 3: rock on in, like come in whenever. Because I thought,

365
00:18:45,885 --> 00:18:48,565
Speaker 3: maybe you need to make an appointment for something like this.

366
00:18:49,365 --> 00:18:50,485
Speaker 1: They just had come on in.

367
00:18:50,845 --> 00:18:55,205
Speaker 2: Or that there's a special squad or yeah, yeah.

368
00:18:54,365 --> 00:18:58,405
Speaker 3: I got dressed, took my little document. I just had

369
00:18:58,405 --> 00:19:00,125
Speaker 3: it on my phone though, and.

370
00:19:00,205 --> 00:19:03,405
Speaker 1: I took my laptop too, and then I drove down there. Yeah,

371
00:19:03,445 --> 00:19:04,125
Speaker 1: and I saw.

372
00:19:03,925 --> 00:19:07,525
Speaker 2: Them because what you were about to tell the police

373
00:19:08,445 --> 00:19:12,765
Speaker 2: was that you had done the preliminary work, the detective work,

374
00:19:14,325 --> 00:19:18,085
Speaker 2: and you had worked out who the person was, and

375
00:19:18,165 --> 00:19:19,445
Speaker 2: who was that person.

376
00:19:19,805 --> 00:19:22,205
Speaker 3: After we'd done all of our little detective work, we

377
00:19:22,325 --> 00:19:25,645
Speaker 3: realized it was our very good friend. His name's Andy Hayler,

378
00:19:26,045 --> 00:19:31,365
Speaker 3: Andrew Hayler. He has been at that point our friend

379
00:19:31,525 --> 00:19:34,365
Speaker 3: for ten years. He was part of that very core

380
00:19:34,445 --> 00:19:38,605
Speaker 3: group at Manning Bar. You know, when I started at

381
00:19:38,605 --> 00:19:41,405
Speaker 3: the bar, I started as just a bartender, and he

382
00:19:41,445 --> 00:19:43,605
Speaker 3: taught me to be a bar supervisor and then the

383
00:19:43,685 --> 00:19:45,085
Speaker 3: venue manager there.

384
00:19:45,925 --> 00:19:48,725
Speaker 1: He was someone that and.

385
00:19:48,685 --> 00:19:50,445
Speaker 3: It still chokes me out thinking about it, because I

386
00:19:50,485 --> 00:19:55,605
Speaker 3: really cared about him and I really had my best

387
00:19:55,645 --> 00:19:57,285
Speaker 3: interests at hand.

388
00:19:57,325 --> 00:20:01,125
Speaker 1: I guess it's still very weird to think about.

389
00:20:02,405 --> 00:20:08,405
Speaker 2: So not only had you discovered these, you know, violent images,

390
00:20:09,565 --> 00:20:13,205
Speaker 2: total breach of your privacy or whatever, but the knowledge

391
00:20:13,245 --> 00:20:14,805
Speaker 2: that you were about to go to the police with

392
00:20:15,005 --> 00:20:16,725
Speaker 2: that it was one of your dearest friends.

393
00:20:17,885 --> 00:20:20,485
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just couldn't believe it either, even that night,

394
00:20:20,925 --> 00:20:23,165
Speaker 3: Like I remember, I was lying in bed and having

395
00:20:23,165 --> 00:20:26,605
Speaker 3: a chat about it, and it just it was so

396
00:20:26,805 --> 00:20:30,165
Speaker 3: obvious from how many women he had posted it had

397
00:20:30,205 --> 00:20:34,245
Speaker 3: to be him, but we couldn't believe it. And it

398
00:20:34,285 --> 00:20:37,485
Speaker 3: took us so long still to believe it. I mean,

399
00:20:37,525 --> 00:20:40,405
Speaker 3: you know it's to be true, but I just I

400
00:20:41,325 --> 00:20:43,245
Speaker 3: just couldn't. I still can't make sense of it. And

401
00:20:43,245 --> 00:20:45,845
Speaker 3: I think an interesting to me and Chris were saying it.

402
00:20:45,845 --> 00:20:46,245
Speaker 1: At that time.

403
00:20:46,245 --> 00:20:47,805
Speaker 3: We were planning a wedding and it really got put

404
00:20:47,805 --> 00:20:50,525
Speaker 3: to a side because of this. But the way that

405
00:20:50,525 --> 00:20:52,645
Speaker 3: it makes people understand how close he was to us

406
00:20:52,765 --> 00:20:54,765
Speaker 3: is we were going to invite thirty people, just both

407
00:20:54,765 --> 00:20:57,165
Speaker 3: of us together, thirty and he was one of them.

408
00:20:57,645 --> 00:21:01,565
Speaker 3: So it was one of our including our family, closest friends.

409
00:21:01,645 --> 00:21:04,565
Speaker 3: It unbelievable.

410
00:21:11,725 --> 00:21:15,325
Speaker 2: After this short break, Hannah tells me what happened after

411
00:21:15,405 --> 00:21:18,845
Speaker 2: she went to the police and how she didn't get

412
00:21:18,845 --> 00:21:25,965
Speaker 2: the help she was hoping for. So you went to

413
00:21:26,005 --> 00:21:30,245
Speaker 2: the police station, you told them, you showed them your folder,

414
00:21:30,405 --> 00:21:34,125
Speaker 2: you showed them the images. Were you talking to one

415
00:21:34,165 --> 00:21:36,525
Speaker 2: person behind the desk? Did they take you into a room?

416
00:21:37,205 --> 00:21:39,965
Speaker 2: Was it a woman? Was it a man? What happens?

417
00:21:40,045 --> 00:21:42,245
Speaker 3: So I just turned up and I think that I

418
00:21:42,245 --> 00:21:44,765
Speaker 3: don't think they I don't know whether they picked a

419
00:21:44,765 --> 00:21:46,685
Speaker 3: woman or a man because of what was happening, but

420
00:21:46,725 --> 00:21:49,685
Speaker 3: it was a female constable and they put me in

421
00:21:50,045 --> 00:21:51,525
Speaker 3: a room that was right next.

422
00:21:51,325 --> 00:21:52,245
Speaker 1: To the front desk.

423
00:21:52,925 --> 00:21:55,805
Speaker 3: So as I was giving my statement, and as I

424
00:21:55,845 --> 00:21:58,805
Speaker 3: was showing them these naked pictures of me and like

425
00:21:59,285 --> 00:22:05,445
Speaker 3: really incredibly violent and degrading positions, there would be a

426
00:22:05,645 --> 00:22:08,525
Speaker 3: conflict at the front desk and someone would come in.

427
00:22:09,685 --> 00:22:10,685
Speaker 1: I'm a police officer.

428
00:22:10,805 --> 00:22:11,565
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.

429
00:22:11,645 --> 00:22:13,405
Speaker 1: He would have to leave to go deal with something

430
00:22:13,405 --> 00:22:14,965
Speaker 1: like at one point, some guy was yelling at the front.

431
00:22:15,005 --> 00:22:17,125
Speaker 1: I understand that's what the police is about. I get

432
00:22:17,245 --> 00:22:19,845
Speaker 1: it's a very hard job. But I'm just sitting here

433
00:22:20,485 --> 00:22:24,205
Speaker 1: in this little room alone.

434
00:22:24,005 --> 00:22:26,885
Speaker 3: And they couldn't get the website up on their computer.

435
00:22:27,005 --> 00:22:29,085
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's because they have a porn filter.

436
00:22:29,205 --> 00:22:33,605
Speaker 2: So they were phone, Oh, of all the times to

437
00:22:33,685 --> 00:22:34,645
Speaker 2: have take issues.

438
00:22:35,525 --> 00:22:37,405
Speaker 3: And so then they told me that they thought the

439
00:22:37,405 --> 00:22:39,365
Speaker 3: website had gone down, and I said, well, I'm on

440
00:22:39,445 --> 00:22:42,525
Speaker 3: it on my phone. So I went through it on

441
00:22:42,565 --> 00:22:45,605
Speaker 3: my phone and oh, saying I just don't want to

442
00:22:45,645 --> 00:22:48,765
Speaker 3: see it. Please don't show me it at all. I

443
00:22:49,125 --> 00:22:51,045
Speaker 3: cannot see any more of that stuff.

444
00:22:51,765 --> 00:22:53,565
Speaker 1: And she repeatedly.

445
00:22:52,965 --> 00:22:55,245
Speaker 3: Turned the phone around to show me things and make

446
00:22:55,765 --> 00:22:57,645
Speaker 3: out what I looked like in the photos.

447
00:22:58,325 --> 00:22:58,925
Speaker 2: What do you mean?

448
00:23:01,085 --> 00:23:05,365
Speaker 3: So at one point she found a photo and it

449
00:23:05,485 --> 00:23:07,205
Speaker 3: was me and it was in an outfit, and she

450
00:23:07,205 --> 00:23:09,045
Speaker 3: told me I look cute and that one and then

451
00:23:09,045 --> 00:23:13,285
Speaker 3: show it for me. And you just laughed because you're like,

452
00:23:13,325 --> 00:23:15,365
Speaker 3: I really need these people to be on my side.

453
00:23:15,805 --> 00:23:19,365
Speaker 1: I really want them tell me, do you know?

454
00:23:20,285 --> 00:23:22,365
Speaker 3: So you laugh along, and also you're just so shocked

455
00:23:22,485 --> 00:23:25,285
Speaker 3: you just go along with it. And there was another time,

456
00:23:25,405 --> 00:23:27,085
Speaker 3: and I don't know if my partner was there by them,

457
00:23:27,125 --> 00:23:28,405
Speaker 3: because once I gave my seat.

458
00:23:28,285 --> 00:23:32,605
Speaker 1: With my PREMI come in, but she said, what did

459
00:23:32,645 --> 00:23:33,725
Speaker 1: you do to this man?

460
00:23:34,805 --> 00:23:35,165
Speaker 2: Oh?

461
00:23:35,605 --> 00:23:39,485
Speaker 3: I just couldn't believe it because I was nothing but

462
00:23:39,525 --> 00:23:42,805
Speaker 3: a very good friend to this man, like he did this.

463
00:23:42,925 --> 00:23:44,725
Speaker 1: But even if I had dumped him.

464
00:23:44,805 --> 00:23:49,045
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, sure, it's it. Do you think that

465
00:23:49,125 --> 00:23:53,125
Speaker 2: they treated it with the gravitask that it deserved that

466
00:23:53,205 --> 00:23:55,165
Speaker 2: initial thing, like did it go up with a chain

467
00:23:55,285 --> 00:23:56,405
Speaker 2: or was she kind of like.

468
00:23:57,365 --> 00:24:01,565
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was just the first person I think that

469
00:24:01,685 --> 00:24:04,965
Speaker 3: was there. And I don't want a huge amount of

470
00:24:05,085 --> 00:24:08,165
Speaker 3: like I'm not angry at it. It was just completely

471
00:24:08,205 --> 00:24:11,445
Speaker 3: put in the wrong place, like crazily, like I shouldn't

472
00:24:11,445 --> 00:24:12,565
Speaker 3: have been sitting in that room.

473
00:24:13,165 --> 00:24:15,445
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have been speaking to her about it.

474
00:24:16,285 --> 00:24:19,965
Speaker 3: Yeah, completely mishandled, I think at the very beginning.

475
00:24:20,765 --> 00:24:23,045
Speaker 2: But so then you've handed it over to the police.

476
00:24:23,085 --> 00:24:25,845
Speaker 2: What does she say is going to happen from that point?

477
00:24:26,405 --> 00:24:29,605
Speaker 3: Not much so Chris came in and gave his statement.

478
00:24:29,645 --> 00:24:31,045
Speaker 3: So we've been there for a very long time.

479
00:24:31,045 --> 00:24:33,845
Speaker 2: At that point, I'm much better to have Chris there,

480
00:24:33,925 --> 00:24:36,525
Speaker 2: I imagine, Well, you need an ally or no.

481
00:24:36,925 --> 00:24:40,525
Speaker 3: Well, because she kept with Chris there, she much more will.

482
00:24:40,605 --> 00:24:43,885
Speaker 3: I almost left because then I was still getting a

483
00:24:43,885 --> 00:24:46,125
Speaker 3: lot of seeing the images I didn't want to see, Like,

484
00:24:46,285 --> 00:24:47,005
Speaker 3: why we.

485
00:24:46,965 --> 00:24:49,245
Speaker 1: Have to see them again? I've seen them. I don't

486
00:24:49,285 --> 00:24:50,285
Speaker 1: want to see them again.

487
00:24:50,845 --> 00:24:52,325
Speaker 3: But it was better for Chris to be that yet

488
00:24:52,405 --> 00:24:56,325
Speaker 3: absolutely in support of me. That was a mistake, I guess,

489
00:24:56,805 --> 00:24:59,965
Speaker 3: but I didn't realize it would be so awful. But

490
00:25:00,005 --> 00:25:03,845
Speaker 3: then afterwards, look, I still left thinking, you know, the

491
00:25:03,845 --> 00:25:05,165
Speaker 3: cops have a really hard job.

492
00:25:05,485 --> 00:25:07,765
Speaker 1: Sometimes I make jokes, you know, I think something's going

493
00:25:07,805 --> 00:25:10,125
Speaker 1: to happen. I was like, you know, the.

494
00:25:10,045 --> 00:25:12,565
Speaker 3: Wheels will turn things good. Things are going to happen

495
00:25:12,565 --> 00:25:13,645
Speaker 3: for us when we walked out.

496
00:25:14,205 --> 00:25:20,125
Speaker 2: So in the meantime, I imagine that every time you go

497
00:25:20,245 --> 00:25:25,325
Speaker 2: home or it becomes a real topic of inquiry, that

498
00:25:25,405 --> 00:25:28,005
Speaker 2: Chris is looking at the website to see what's happening,

499
00:25:28,005 --> 00:25:31,605
Speaker 2: if it's been updated, if there's more pictures, what's happening

500
00:25:31,605 --> 00:25:32,365
Speaker 2: in real time.

501
00:25:33,125 --> 00:25:34,005
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I think.

502
00:25:33,885 --> 00:25:36,725
Speaker 5: That night we were really focused on me, But then

503
00:25:37,205 --> 00:25:39,885
Speaker 5: we were still worried that, you know, it would get

504
00:25:39,925 --> 00:25:43,485
Speaker 5: taken down or something and our friends wouldn't have evidence

505
00:25:43,525 --> 00:25:43,885
Speaker 5: for them.

506
00:25:44,285 --> 00:25:47,005
Speaker 3: And so what Chris was doing was going to the

507
00:25:47,005 --> 00:25:50,325
Speaker 3: website and getting all of the screenshots of our friends.

508
00:25:50,405 --> 00:25:52,685
Speaker 3: And he had a folder and at this point he'd

509
00:25:52,685 --> 00:25:55,405
Speaker 3: made this because he's a spreadsheet guy, he's in finance,

510
00:25:56,325 --> 00:25:59,045
Speaker 3: huge spreadsheet, all of the women he'd found, his names,

511
00:25:59,165 --> 00:26:01,765
Speaker 3: how they were linked to end, all of the posts,

512
00:26:01,805 --> 00:26:05,285
Speaker 3: putting them into folders. Just you really want something good

513
00:26:05,325 --> 00:26:07,445
Speaker 3: to happen, and you trust the police that they will

514
00:26:07,445 --> 00:26:10,165
Speaker 3: make it happen. But you know, I guess it busy

515
00:26:10,165 --> 00:26:13,125
Speaker 3: in yourself made yourself feel better still, So that's what, Yes.

516
00:26:13,005 --> 00:26:16,725
Speaker 2: That you have an activity in a time where you

517
00:26:17,005 --> 00:26:20,005
Speaker 2: need to you need You can't be idle. There's no

518
00:26:20,125 --> 00:26:21,365
Speaker 2: kicking back and relaxing.

519
00:26:21,685 --> 00:26:24,405
Speaker 3: No, no, And I think it made Chris feel a

520
00:26:24,405 --> 00:26:26,405
Speaker 3: lot better, and it made me feel a lot better

521
00:26:26,485 --> 00:26:28,205
Speaker 3: that Chris was doing that. I wasn't doing it. I

522
00:26:28,245 --> 00:26:29,685
Speaker 3: could not go to that website.

523
00:26:30,045 --> 00:26:35,005
Speaker 2: But your two girlfriends from Manning Bar were also on

524
00:26:35,045 --> 00:26:37,925
Speaker 2: that side. And was this the point at which you

525
00:26:38,005 --> 00:26:40,125
Speaker 2: resolved not to tell them because you knew that you

526
00:26:40,165 --> 00:26:42,965
Speaker 2: had to keep you had to keep things tight.

527
00:26:43,285 --> 00:26:45,645
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we thought that when we had gone to

528
00:26:45,645 --> 00:26:47,285
Speaker 1: the police. The police said no, we can tell whoever

529
00:26:47,285 --> 00:26:48,245
Speaker 1: we want.

530
00:26:48,605 --> 00:26:52,325
Speaker 3: But we think that was odd because if it got

531
00:26:52,325 --> 00:26:55,965
Speaker 3: back to him, we're all very close friends, then you

532
00:26:56,005 --> 00:26:57,165
Speaker 3: know that would be it for it.

533
00:26:57,325 --> 00:26:58,485
Speaker 1: He'll just rip it all down.

534
00:26:58,605 --> 00:27:03,325
Speaker 3: So we decided that we wouldn't say it to anyone then,

535
00:27:03,485 --> 00:27:06,405
Speaker 3: and then I guess when we later got a lawyer,

536
00:27:06,485 --> 00:27:07,445
Speaker 3: they just taught us not to.

537
00:27:07,685 --> 00:27:11,245
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, so you left things with the police.

538
00:27:11,405 --> 00:27:11,565
Speaker 1: YEP.

539
00:27:12,205 --> 00:27:17,085
Speaker 2: At this point, you've done ninety percent of the work,

540
00:27:17,485 --> 00:27:19,765
Speaker 2: You've worked out who it is, you've gone to the police,

541
00:27:19,805 --> 00:27:22,245
Speaker 2: you've got the images, you know that these two of

542
00:27:22,285 --> 00:27:26,125
Speaker 2: your other friends involved. You've left it with them, and

543
00:27:26,125 --> 00:27:28,285
Speaker 2: then they come back to you a little while later.

544
00:27:28,525 --> 00:27:29,845
Speaker 2: And what did they say to you.

545
00:27:30,245 --> 00:27:32,765
Speaker 3: Well, I think just before that we'd realized that that

546
00:27:32,965 --> 00:27:36,725
Speaker 3: like Andy had been making threats to me, and so

547
00:27:36,845 --> 00:27:38,725
Speaker 3: he was saying things like I'm going to wait inside

548
00:27:38,725 --> 00:27:43,165
Speaker 3: her house until she comes in and I'm not going

549
00:27:43,205 --> 00:27:44,405
Speaker 3: to say the rest of it, but it was going

550
00:27:44,445 --> 00:27:46,605
Speaker 3: to break me in my own bed, things like that.

551
00:27:47,165 --> 00:27:48,885
Speaker 2: Right, So he's saying that on on.

552
00:27:49,165 --> 00:27:51,125
Speaker 3: That and yeah, and I know where she works, I

553
00:27:51,125 --> 00:27:53,045
Speaker 3: know where she lives. I'm coming to get that slot.

554
00:27:53,365 --> 00:27:56,205
Speaker 3: Just you guys, wait and so or I'm going to

555
00:27:56,245 --> 00:27:58,085
Speaker 3: put her in a van as she walks home. He

556
00:27:58,125 --> 00:28:00,045
Speaker 3: knows where I live, He's been to my house, he's

557
00:28:00,085 --> 00:28:02,445
Speaker 3: been to my job. So we wrote to the police

558
00:28:02,765 --> 00:28:05,485
Speaker 3: and said, you know these threats and I feel like

559
00:28:05,565 --> 00:28:06,325
Speaker 3: ratscheating up.

560
00:28:06,605 --> 00:28:09,645
Speaker 1: I think that you need to do something at it,

561
00:28:09,645 --> 00:28:10,525
Speaker 1: and they didn't get back.

562
00:28:10,365 --> 00:28:13,285
Speaker 3: To us, and so that we did get a lawyer

563
00:28:13,405 --> 00:28:15,085
Speaker 3: after that because we just thought all that.

564
00:28:15,725 --> 00:28:20,325
Speaker 2: Now that lawyer you got is quite amazing. Yeah, how

565
00:28:20,325 --> 00:28:22,485
Speaker 2: did things change once you got her on board?

566
00:28:22,965 --> 00:28:25,525
Speaker 3: So when we first got her on board, really she

567
00:28:25,605 --> 00:28:32,525
Speaker 3: couldn't do much. In about July ish I got a

568
00:28:32,565 --> 00:28:35,285
Speaker 3: call and it was from the same police officer and

569
00:28:35,325 --> 00:28:36,965
Speaker 3: she just told me that the case was going to

570
00:28:37,005 --> 00:28:39,925
Speaker 3: be suspended unless something else came up.

571
00:28:40,765 --> 00:28:49,765
Speaker 2: Devastating, yeah, angering, yeah, infuriating, unbelievable. Have I left out it?

572
00:28:49,885 --> 00:28:52,085
Speaker 2: I left out I'm imagining that I am you.

573
00:28:53,445 --> 00:28:58,605
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like you know, between that time, we still

574
00:28:58,725 --> 00:29:01,565
Speaker 3: had this person who'd sent us the email originally that

575
00:29:01,645 --> 00:29:02,605
Speaker 3: private investigator.

576
00:29:03,005 --> 00:29:05,365
Speaker 1: He had found the address of who was posting them

577
00:29:05,685 --> 00:29:07,125
Speaker 1: and it was his address.

578
00:29:06,885 --> 00:29:11,045
Speaker 3: We knew, and his address, and he had the phone

579
00:29:11,085 --> 00:29:13,805
Speaker 3: he was using, and it was the phone that he

580
00:29:14,085 --> 00:29:16,245
Speaker 3: was spending all this information. We kept sending it to

581
00:29:16,285 --> 00:29:19,205
Speaker 3: the police. He was happy to speak to the police, and.

582
00:29:19,165 --> 00:29:22,005
Speaker 1: Just no one, no one cared to do it.

583
00:29:22,045 --> 00:29:24,645
Speaker 3: And so we're getting more and more, like we already

584
00:29:24,645 --> 00:29:27,685
Speaker 3: were very certain but you think it's going in the

585
00:29:27,765 --> 00:29:30,245
Speaker 3: right direction and it's going in a completely different direction.

586
00:29:30,885 --> 00:29:34,365
Speaker 2: Well, you know, when you're in law abiding person, your

587
00:29:34,485 --> 00:29:37,085
Speaker 2: first port of call is the police, and you kind

588
00:29:37,085 --> 00:29:39,205
Speaker 2: of think that the police are there to fix things

589
00:29:40,165 --> 00:29:45,325
Speaker 2: when people have broken laws. But that wasn't the case.

590
00:29:45,405 --> 00:29:47,965
Speaker 2: So what did What did you do when the police

591
00:29:47,965 --> 00:29:49,845
Speaker 2: said that they weren't going to go any further.

592
00:29:50,605 --> 00:29:56,325
Speaker 1: Well, first, I cried so sad. He was just so surprised,

593
00:29:57,205 --> 00:29:59,485
Speaker 1: and I looked up what suspended meant, because.

594
00:29:59,245 --> 00:30:01,965
Speaker 3: I'm just like, I know what spend this means in English,

595
00:30:02,005 --> 00:30:04,445
Speaker 3: but I thought, what does.

596
00:30:04,285 --> 00:30:06,285
Speaker 2: It mean in legally legal talk?

597
00:30:06,445 --> 00:30:08,965
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then we just called our lawyer immediately, and

598
00:30:09,005 --> 00:30:10,845
Speaker 1: you know, she is a gem.

599
00:30:12,085 --> 00:30:16,925
Speaker 3: And we had already been a bit worried that it

600
00:30:16,965 --> 00:30:20,245
Speaker 3: wasn't going anywhere. I still had a very positive attitude,

601
00:30:20,285 --> 00:30:22,445
Speaker 3: but it was just in case it wasn't.

602
00:30:22,485 --> 00:30:25,205
Speaker 1: Our lawyer had given us the name of a.

603
00:30:25,165 --> 00:30:27,525
Speaker 3: Forensic investigator, and I think he used to be in

604
00:30:27,565 --> 00:30:30,245
Speaker 3: the police, and so what he does is he looks

605
00:30:30,285 --> 00:30:32,365
Speaker 3: at all of the evidence or he finds it for himself,

606
00:30:32,805 --> 00:30:34,565
Speaker 3: and then he puts together a report.

607
00:30:34,765 --> 00:30:37,765
Speaker 1: I think that's much more palatable for the police.

608
00:30:37,885 --> 00:30:41,685
Speaker 2: All right, because it's it's in the language, and.

609
00:30:41,645 --> 00:30:43,445
Speaker 3: I think because he used to be a police officer

610
00:30:43,525 --> 00:30:48,285
Speaker 3: or he's been in that area, it has more backing.

611
00:30:48,725 --> 00:30:51,965
Speaker 3: It means more than our silly spreadsheet. And so that

612
00:30:52,085 --> 00:30:54,285
Speaker 3: had already been going. So I remember when I got

613
00:30:54,285 --> 00:30:56,845
Speaker 3: that suspending phone call. I said to her because I

614
00:30:56,925 --> 00:30:58,845
Speaker 3: was desperate, I said, oh, but we've already got We've

615
00:30:58,845 --> 00:30:59,885
Speaker 3: got this man doing something.

616
00:30:59,885 --> 00:31:00,765
Speaker 1: We've paid him a.

617
00:31:00,685 --> 00:31:03,325
Speaker 3: Little bit of money because this preliminary report, but he'll

618
00:31:03,325 --> 00:31:05,325
Speaker 3: do a real one like and she just said, yes,

619
00:31:05,365 --> 00:31:07,405
Speaker 3: send it on through if you get it, And so

620
00:31:07,485 --> 00:31:08,085
Speaker 3: I was like.

621
00:31:08,325 --> 00:31:12,005
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So how much does all of that cost?

622
00:31:12,805 --> 00:31:15,845
Speaker 2: So you've now got a lawyer, Yeah, you've got the

623
00:31:16,165 --> 00:31:22,685
Speaker 2: forensic tech guy, you're getting reports made, You're in I imagine

624
00:31:22,565 --> 00:31:27,245
Speaker 2: almost daily contact with your lawyer. How much money have

625
00:31:27,325 --> 00:31:28,405
Speaker 2: you been spending on it?

626
00:31:28,565 --> 00:31:30,925
Speaker 3: In the end, it cost is around twenty thousand dollars

627
00:31:31,005 --> 00:31:32,045
Speaker 3: to get this all done.

628
00:31:33,045 --> 00:31:36,165
Speaker 2: Do you get victims of crime compensation? Is any of

629
00:31:36,165 --> 00:31:36,765
Speaker 2: that covered?

630
00:31:36,925 --> 00:31:40,525
Speaker 1: Or I tried. I tried for it's called reparations, and

631
00:31:40,565 --> 00:31:41,125
Speaker 1: so the.

632
00:31:42,725 --> 00:31:46,125
Speaker 3: Victims Services person put me onto them and they denied it.

633
00:31:46,765 --> 00:31:49,965
Speaker 2: So no, did they give you grounds or.

634
00:31:51,205 --> 00:31:54,405
Speaker 1: It's just a knock back. No, yeah, just knock back,

635
00:31:55,085 --> 00:31:55,525
Speaker 1: all right.

636
00:31:55,645 --> 00:32:01,285
Speaker 2: So now with your forensic guy and the lawyer, you

637
00:32:01,325 --> 00:32:03,045
Speaker 2: can go back to the police and you've got a

638
00:32:03,165 --> 00:32:07,965
Speaker 2: comprehensive report. Then so you do that and then what happens.

639
00:32:08,485 --> 00:32:11,485
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the lawyer sends them a letter. It was

640
00:32:11,525 --> 00:32:13,605
Speaker 3: a very strongly worded letter. It was great, you know,

641
00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:19,005
Speaker 3: legal legal person, and it just said they demand for

642
00:32:19,045 --> 00:32:20,245
Speaker 3: the case to be reopened.

643
00:32:20,365 --> 00:32:24,365
Speaker 1: Here is this extra evidence we expect to hear back

644
00:32:24,485 --> 00:32:27,525
Speaker 1: by this time. And then that was on.

645
00:32:30,005 --> 00:32:32,965
Speaker 3: It was maybe five days after that I got this

646
00:32:33,165 --> 00:32:35,605
Speaker 3: very strange call at school and I picked it up

647
00:32:35,605 --> 00:32:37,965
Speaker 3: because it was from a random number and that was

648
00:32:38,005 --> 00:32:41,845
Speaker 3: always the police for me, and it was just a

649
00:32:41,885 --> 00:32:45,405
Speaker 3: police officer, so lovely. But he told me that it

650
00:32:45,445 --> 00:32:48,525
Speaker 3: had landed on the right desk. Now it had someone

651
00:32:48,565 --> 00:32:51,645
Speaker 3: would be in contact with me. Now. It just it

652
00:32:51,725 --> 00:32:54,885
Speaker 3: was a nothing phone call except to say, don't go

653
00:32:54,925 --> 00:32:58,765
Speaker 3: and do the complaint you're going to put in somewhere,

654
00:32:58,805 --> 00:33:01,005
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? Oh? Okay, It just

655
00:33:01,085 --> 00:33:04,485
Speaker 3: said we got your thing. It has gone to a detective.

656
00:33:04,565 --> 00:33:08,805
Speaker 3: Now they will be in contact and so what a

657
00:33:08,885 --> 00:33:11,805
Speaker 3: shift five days. I think between Yah, it's two things,

658
00:33:12,365 --> 00:33:14,165
Speaker 3: and I was just ecstatic.

659
00:33:14,405 --> 00:33:15,325
Speaker 1: I could not believe it.

660
00:33:16,285 --> 00:33:19,845
Speaker 2: Yeah, because finally something was happening, something had shifted.

661
00:33:20,085 --> 00:33:23,005
Speaker 1: I just yeah, incredible.

662
00:33:23,765 --> 00:33:28,005
Speaker 2: But also in this time, so this really tight core

663
00:33:28,085 --> 00:33:30,605
Speaker 2: group of people that you've been traveling through life with,

664
00:33:32,485 --> 00:33:35,805
Speaker 2: you've not been having contact with them. You've been avoiding them,

665
00:33:35,885 --> 00:33:38,805
Speaker 2: the girls because you don't want to tip off Andy

666
00:33:38,845 --> 00:33:44,725
Speaker 2: about what's happening, and Andy for obvious reasons. But how

667
00:33:44,805 --> 00:33:48,885
Speaker 2: is that to be suddenly estranged from those people who've

668
00:33:48,885 --> 00:33:50,605
Speaker 2: been such a significant part of your life.

669
00:33:51,645 --> 00:33:56,365
Speaker 3: Look, it was very difficult, I think, to stop seeing

670
00:33:56,405 --> 00:33:58,685
Speaker 3: your friends. We just weren't sure that if we saw

671
00:33:58,765 --> 00:34:00,925
Speaker 3: them we wouldn't tell them.

672
00:34:01,445 --> 00:34:05,165
Speaker 1: You know, it was me, Chris and I. Sorry. We

673
00:34:06,605 --> 00:34:07,405
Speaker 1: talked about it.

674
00:34:08,605 --> 00:34:11,005
Speaker 3: I would say almost every day, if not every second day,

675
00:34:11,005 --> 00:34:12,005
Speaker 3: whether we should tell them.

676
00:34:12,445 --> 00:34:14,165
Speaker 1: You know, Chris was watching that.

677
00:34:14,125 --> 00:34:16,365
Speaker 3: Website to make sure he wasn't threatening them, and he

678
00:34:16,405 --> 00:34:20,005
Speaker 3: never was. But you just worry that something will happen

679
00:34:20,085 --> 00:34:20,605
Speaker 3: to them.

680
00:34:20,485 --> 00:34:22,765
Speaker 1: And they won't have known about it.

681
00:34:23,485 --> 00:34:26,925
Speaker 3: However, we were told very strongly from our lawyers, and

682
00:34:26,925 --> 00:34:29,725
Speaker 3: thankfully they did to not say anything. But you just

683
00:34:29,725 --> 00:34:32,085
Speaker 3: can't hang around with your friends. So we didn't, so

684
00:34:32,125 --> 00:34:34,725
Speaker 3: we just pulled back from everyone. We just hang out

685
00:34:34,965 --> 00:34:38,045
Speaker 3: by ourselves. This kind of took over our life at

686
00:34:38,045 --> 00:34:38,565
Speaker 3: this point.

687
00:34:39,565 --> 00:34:40,685
Speaker 2: You must have been scared.

688
00:34:41,525 --> 00:34:44,765
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was, honest. I was terrified all the time.

689
00:34:44,845 --> 00:34:45,085
Speaker 1: You know.

690
00:34:45,165 --> 00:34:46,925
Speaker 3: There's times where I meant to be at school by

691
00:34:46,925 --> 00:34:48,365
Speaker 3: myself on the weekend.

692
00:34:48,285 --> 00:34:50,845
Speaker 1: Maybe to check something or be on some kind of

693
00:34:50,845 --> 00:34:53,925
Speaker 1: function or something. I wouldn't go. We bought cameras for

694
00:34:54,005 --> 00:34:54,565
Speaker 1: the house.

695
00:34:54,885 --> 00:34:57,645
Speaker 3: I wore an Apple watch that would tell Chris when

696
00:34:57,645 --> 00:35:00,165
Speaker 3: I arrived to school and when I got home, like,

697
00:35:00,205 --> 00:35:02,325
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even keep it was summer, and I wouldn't

698
00:35:02,365 --> 00:35:03,525
Speaker 3: keep the windows open.

699
00:35:03,405 --> 00:35:04,925
Speaker 1: Just in case I was in a different room.

700
00:35:05,045 --> 00:35:08,645
Speaker 3: Because the things that Andy had wrote about me were

701
00:35:08,685 --> 00:35:10,685
Speaker 3: so graffic and they seemed so.

702
00:35:12,365 --> 00:35:14,765
Speaker 1: Real in nature that his ability to.

703
00:35:14,725 --> 00:35:16,125
Speaker 3: Do it, and I reckon, I look, I like to

704
00:35:16,125 --> 00:35:17,045
Speaker 3: say this, but I reckon I.

705
00:35:17,085 --> 00:35:21,005
Speaker 1: Could take him. If I saw would be coming at me,

706
00:35:21,685 --> 00:35:25,205
Speaker 1: they'd be hiding in my house. I don't think. I

707
00:35:25,205 --> 00:35:26,605
Speaker 1: don't know, one can be prepared for that.

708
00:35:26,685 --> 00:35:30,405
Speaker 2: So and also because he knew you, Yeah, yeah, so

709
00:35:30,485 --> 00:35:32,765
Speaker 2: that's got another element of it as well.

710
00:35:32,925 --> 00:35:34,845
Speaker 3: And well he lived nearby as well, so I used

711
00:35:34,885 --> 00:35:37,805
Speaker 3: to see people with a beard and the same kind

712
00:35:37,805 --> 00:35:40,605
Speaker 3: of gait of walk, and I would just run. I

713
00:35:40,885 --> 00:35:45,405
Speaker 3: just was so scared that, yeah, we would be surprised.

714
00:35:45,405 --> 00:35:47,485
Speaker 3: And like me and Chris, we slept with a knife

715
00:35:47,485 --> 00:35:49,885
Speaker 3: next to the bird because we just thought things of

716
00:35:49,965 --> 00:35:54,085
Speaker 3: him coming in, or he's been talking to three hundred.

717
00:35:53,725 --> 00:35:57,125
Speaker 1: Men and passing them up on the idea of raping me.

718
00:35:57,325 --> 00:36:00,085
Speaker 6: Yeah, right, And he was giving out our phone numbers

719
00:36:00,485 --> 00:36:04,205
Speaker 6: in these weird groups that the investigator was in, and

720
00:36:04,565 --> 00:36:06,285
Speaker 6: you don't know if he's given out your address and

721
00:36:06,325 --> 00:36:09,645
Speaker 6: he's made some other men I don't know that you

722
00:36:09,685 --> 00:36:10,485
Speaker 6: don't recognize.

723
00:36:10,525 --> 00:36:11,925
Speaker 1: So I was just terrified.

724
00:36:12,645 --> 00:36:16,205
Speaker 2: And in that time, you haven't bumped into him, but

725
00:36:16,325 --> 00:36:16,925
Speaker 2: then you do.

726
00:36:19,005 --> 00:36:20,565
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were quite lucky.

727
00:36:21,205 --> 00:36:23,485
Speaker 3: I guess we weren't going out as much, so that

728
00:36:23,605 --> 00:36:25,925
Speaker 3: might be why we didn't bump into him as well.

729
00:36:26,365 --> 00:36:27,485
Speaker 1: But yeah, we were going to.

730
00:36:27,445 --> 00:36:31,165
Speaker 3: This it's like a football festival down the road, and

731
00:36:31,205 --> 00:36:32,445
Speaker 3: we knew there was a chance.

732
00:36:32,485 --> 00:36:32,645
Speaker 2: You know.

733
00:36:32,685 --> 00:36:34,085
Speaker 3: It's just one of those things that everyone in the

734
00:36:34,085 --> 00:36:35,565
Speaker 3: Inner West kind of community.

735
00:36:35,765 --> 00:36:38,245
Speaker 1: Yeah, and nice. It's got stools and stuff like that.

736
00:36:39,325 --> 00:36:43,245
Speaker 3: And so I said to Chris, I won't come first,

737
00:36:44,325 --> 00:36:46,125
Speaker 3: you go and then let me hear.

738
00:36:46,325 --> 00:36:48,405
Speaker 1: It's like, and I'll come after, just in case.

739
00:36:49,205 --> 00:36:52,085
Speaker 3: And I think, because I can see Chris because we

740
00:36:52,125 --> 00:36:54,845
Speaker 3: have we can follow each other on our iPhones because

741
00:36:54,845 --> 00:36:57,885
Speaker 3: we were so freaked out. He just arrives and I

742
00:36:57,925 --> 00:37:00,645
Speaker 3: get a message that he immediately runs into Andy.

743
00:37:00,525 --> 00:37:03,405
Speaker 1: And he just runs up gives him a massive hug,

744
00:37:04,405 --> 00:37:05,005
Speaker 1: and just.

745
00:37:05,245 --> 00:37:06,565
Speaker 2: Andy hugs Chris.

746
00:37:07,125 --> 00:37:07,325
Speaker 3: Yeah.

747
00:37:07,445 --> 00:37:12,285
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just like right to see you mate, like normal.

748
00:37:12,125 --> 00:37:14,445
Speaker 3: Like absolutely normal, like more than normal because we hadn't

749
00:37:14,485 --> 00:37:16,685
Speaker 3: seen him for a while at that point, you know,

750
00:37:17,005 --> 00:37:20,605
Speaker 3: super friendly. Yeah, And so he messaged me and he

751
00:37:20,685 --> 00:37:22,965
Speaker 3: told me that he would be there and like you

752
00:37:23,005 --> 00:37:23,965
Speaker 3: can make the decision to.

753
00:37:23,885 --> 00:37:24,245
Speaker 1: Come or not.

754
00:37:24,365 --> 00:37:26,085
Speaker 3: And it just pissed me off because my other friends

755
00:37:26,085 --> 00:37:28,965
Speaker 3: are already there. We went part of that we had

756
00:37:29,485 --> 00:37:31,045
Speaker 3: rated from kind of that group at that point. I

757
00:37:31,045 --> 00:37:31,885
Speaker 3: had another group of.

758
00:37:31,765 --> 00:37:34,405
Speaker 1: Friends and I was like, you know what, I'm going

759
00:37:34,485 --> 00:37:37,165
Speaker 1: to go down there. And he did the same thing

760
00:37:37,165 --> 00:37:37,405
Speaker 1: to me.

761
00:37:37,525 --> 00:37:40,445
Speaker 3: You know, we hugged, We talked about our life and

762
00:37:40,485 --> 00:37:42,445
Speaker 3: you know, he asked me about my school and the

763
00:37:42,485 --> 00:37:43,165
Speaker 3: house and.

764
00:37:44,005 --> 00:37:46,805
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looked you in your eyes, yeah.

765
00:37:46,645 --> 00:37:48,805
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like like nothing nothing at.

766
00:37:48,685 --> 00:37:50,405
Speaker 2: All, And what did you feel.

767
00:37:50,925 --> 00:37:55,925
Speaker 1: The weird thing is that it still was just my friend, Andy.

768
00:37:56,125 --> 00:37:58,845
Speaker 1: You know, you're so angry, You're so angry, and.

769
00:37:58,885 --> 00:38:02,125
Speaker 3: Chris was there with me, obviously, and you know this

770
00:38:02,205 --> 00:38:03,765
Speaker 3: man is saying these things, but you look him in

771
00:38:03,765 --> 00:38:05,925
Speaker 3: the eyes and it's still the friend you've been friends

772
00:38:05,925 --> 00:38:08,125
Speaker 3: with for ten years. It did not make any sense

773
00:38:08,165 --> 00:38:10,765
Speaker 3: that they were still at all the same person.

774
00:38:11,525 --> 00:38:15,845
Speaker 2: All right, But at this stage, I guess he's still

775
00:38:15,925 --> 00:38:20,805
Speaker 2: compart mentalized, even though academically you know that it's him

776
00:38:22,485 --> 00:38:25,525
Speaker 2: in your heart when you see him, it's your friend.

777
00:38:26,245 --> 00:38:29,765
Speaker 2: But then the police call you again and they have

778
00:38:29,965 --> 00:38:37,205
Speaker 2: news for you about yeah doing a raid. Yeah, yeah,

779
00:38:37,245 --> 00:38:37,885
Speaker 2: and it happened.

780
00:38:38,005 --> 00:38:40,605
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they did the raid. So I got a

781
00:38:40,645 --> 00:38:42,085
Speaker 1: call at school.

782
00:38:42,125 --> 00:38:44,445
Speaker 3: I was teaching, Thank Christ, I was teaching my year twelve,

783
00:38:44,565 --> 00:38:47,005
Speaker 3: So in my lab I have a big glass wall,

784
00:38:47,405 --> 00:38:49,485
Speaker 3: and I had already told them because I knew it

785
00:38:49,525 --> 00:38:51,965
Speaker 3: was happening that day that I might need to pop

786
00:38:52,005 --> 00:38:54,405
Speaker 3: out for a personal reason, just like them, just for.

787
00:38:54,405 --> 00:38:56,045
Speaker 1: A phone call. They're all working.

788
00:38:56,565 --> 00:38:58,965
Speaker 3: I just pop around to the window where they can't hear,

789
00:38:59,445 --> 00:39:01,405
Speaker 3: and she just said, yeah, we went in.

790
00:39:01,525 --> 00:39:03,045
Speaker 1: He was there. We got everything.

791
00:39:03,485 --> 00:39:06,925
Speaker 3: There was the computers, there was hard drives, there was USBs,

792
00:39:07,005 --> 00:39:10,205
Speaker 3: it was all there. He gave us the passwords, Oh

793
00:39:10,325 --> 00:39:11,685
Speaker 3: is it in with us now?

794
00:39:12,325 --> 00:39:13,925
Speaker 1: And I just you don't.

795
00:39:13,725 --> 00:39:17,805
Speaker 2: Know, you just and how is that feeling?

796
00:39:19,005 --> 00:39:21,485
Speaker 3: It was a relief because apparently if he doesn't give

797
00:39:21,485 --> 00:39:23,365
Speaker 3: the passwords up, they can just put him in jail.

798
00:39:24,045 --> 00:39:26,965
Speaker 1: So you have to do those things. So it was

799
00:39:27,045 --> 00:39:33,445
Speaker 1: just about him being there, but the massive high of

800
00:39:33,565 --> 00:39:38,565
Speaker 1: relief that you have. But also I think.

801
00:39:39,845 --> 00:39:42,925
Speaker 3: We always believed it was him, but it's just another loss,

802
00:39:42,965 --> 00:39:43,325
Speaker 3: isn't it.

803
00:39:43,325 --> 00:39:47,845
Speaker 1: I just felt like, oh my god, yeah.

804
00:39:47,765 --> 00:39:53,085
Speaker 2: Yeah, that it was not even through all of it,

805
00:39:53,205 --> 00:39:54,925
Speaker 2: I'm sure there was a part of you that was like,

806
00:39:55,045 --> 00:39:57,445
Speaker 2: let this not be him, Let it not be him.

807
00:39:58,445 --> 00:40:01,765
Speaker 1: Yeah, just yeah, still unbelievable.

808
00:40:02,365 --> 00:40:06,725
Speaker 2: And then this is I also find this unbelievable. It

809
00:40:06,805 --> 00:40:12,525
Speaker 2: went to court, Yeah, yes, yes, And in court was

810
00:40:12,565 --> 00:40:14,605
Speaker 2: it during the process of the court that you met

811
00:40:14,765 --> 00:40:19,685
Speaker 2: with the twenty six other women that yeah, were also

812
00:40:19,725 --> 00:40:21,005
Speaker 2: on the side stween.

813
00:40:20,765 --> 00:40:22,685
Speaker 3: That and the court, there was all sorts of weird

814
00:40:22,725 --> 00:40:27,125
Speaker 3: things where the CDPP, the prosecutor, we'd have this many

815
00:40:27,245 --> 00:40:30,925
Speaker 3: charges and then they thought, well, actually it's not porn

816
00:40:31,085 --> 00:40:33,005
Speaker 3: of you, it's your face, and you have no right

817
00:40:33,045 --> 00:40:34,845
Speaker 3: to privacy of your face. So we're going to drop

818
00:40:34,845 --> 00:40:37,165
Speaker 3: the charges to this, then we're going to aggrevate them.

819
00:40:37,205 --> 00:40:39,805
Speaker 3: They went on for two years of this, like doing

820
00:40:39,845 --> 00:40:41,805
Speaker 3: and throwing. So by the time we got to court,

821
00:40:41,885 --> 00:40:44,325
Speaker 3: we're just I was so excited for it to just

822
00:40:45,205 --> 00:40:48,205
Speaker 3: done so when we got there, though, by then I

823
00:40:48,365 --> 00:40:50,965
Speaker 3: had told many of the women.

824
00:40:56,325 --> 00:40:59,645
Speaker 2: There's a lot more to Hannah's story. Right after this

825
00:40:59,725 --> 00:41:03,925
Speaker 2: short break, we dive deeper into how Hannah finally revealed

826
00:41:03,925 --> 00:41:07,285
Speaker 2: the truth to her friends, the ones who were also

827
00:41:07,445 --> 00:41:17,005
Speaker 2: on the website will be right back. So you told

828
00:41:17,085 --> 00:41:17,925
Speaker 2: Jess and Rachel.

829
00:41:18,165 --> 00:41:20,125
Speaker 1: I told several others as well.

830
00:41:20,285 --> 00:41:22,845
Speaker 2: Right, but these were your dear friends.

831
00:41:22,925 --> 00:41:24,525
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had told them.

832
00:41:25,125 --> 00:41:27,445
Speaker 2: And how was that? How was that conversation?

833
00:41:27,845 --> 00:41:32,005
Speaker 1: Was awful? Because we pulled back. It was weird. They

834
00:41:32,085 --> 00:41:35,285
Speaker 1: knew something was wrong, and you know.

835
00:41:35,245 --> 00:41:38,605
Speaker 3: One of them was in a car going somewhere and

836
00:41:38,645 --> 00:41:40,165
Speaker 3: I didn't want to tell her then, but she I

837
00:41:40,165 --> 00:41:41,605
Speaker 3: think she was going off seas who knows she was

838
00:41:41,645 --> 00:41:44,085
Speaker 3: doing something that meant it was either now or never,

839
00:41:45,005 --> 00:41:46,525
Speaker 3: And you just don't know how to tell them. So

840
00:41:46,925 --> 00:41:49,245
Speaker 3: I would just recount what happened to me and just

841
00:41:49,285 --> 00:41:53,445
Speaker 3: not say that it was Andy, and then say that

842
00:41:53,485 --> 00:41:55,685
Speaker 3: it was Andy and what had happened, and then say

843
00:41:55,725 --> 00:41:56,845
Speaker 3: and I'm.

844
00:41:56,845 --> 00:41:58,085
Speaker 1: Really sorry to tell you.

845
00:41:58,085 --> 00:42:00,485
Speaker 3: You're sitting down as everything you got someone with you,

846
00:42:01,245 --> 00:42:04,285
Speaker 3: it's also you two and then would asked to get

847
00:42:04,325 --> 00:42:07,405
Speaker 3: sent their things, and you just try and prepare them

848
00:42:07,405 --> 00:42:09,765
Speaker 3: for what they're about to see because it's I.

849
00:42:09,765 --> 00:42:12,685
Speaker 1: Mean, Rachel's one was called, let's rate Rachel. And it

850
00:42:12,805 --> 00:42:16,045
Speaker 1: was just like a born. It was just awful.

851
00:42:16,605 --> 00:42:20,685
Speaker 3: And I think the shock of that is so hard,

852
00:42:20,845 --> 00:42:22,365
Speaker 3: and you're very I mean, they were in shock when

853
00:42:22,365 --> 00:42:26,845
Speaker 3: I told them. But yeah, it's terrible, terrible to be

854
00:42:26,925 --> 00:42:30,325
Speaker 3: that kind of messenger of awful news.

855
00:42:30,685 --> 00:42:33,965
Speaker 2: And also the I mean because it's cost you so much.

856
00:42:34,925 --> 00:42:43,205
Speaker 2: It's cost you that year of friendship minimum minimum, it's

857
00:42:43,205 --> 00:42:47,525
Speaker 2: cost you, I imagine, trust on all sorts of levels.

858
00:42:48,925 --> 00:42:52,725
Speaker 2: So when you went to court and when he was sentenced, well,

859
00:42:52,805 --> 00:42:56,605
Speaker 2: two things I found really interesting what he said when

860
00:42:56,645 --> 00:42:59,885
Speaker 2: he was door stopped by a journalist on the way

861
00:42:59,925 --> 00:43:00,405
Speaker 2: to court.

862
00:43:00,685 --> 00:43:02,405
Speaker 1: Yeah she's our friends.

863
00:43:02,845 --> 00:43:04,165
Speaker 2: Wow, Oh is she?

864
00:43:04,485 --> 00:43:04,685
Speaker 1: Yeah?

865
00:43:04,765 --> 00:43:04,965
Speaker 2: Yeah?

866
00:43:04,965 --> 00:43:06,925
Speaker 1: So she was the producer of the Australian story.

867
00:43:07,525 --> 00:43:09,645
Speaker 3: Right, Well, my good friend's sisters, So that that's how

868
00:43:09,685 --> 00:43:13,005
Speaker 3: she it was important. So she was there both days,

869
00:43:13,045 --> 00:43:15,925
Speaker 3: and she was really on our like she wanted to

870
00:43:16,645 --> 00:43:19,045
Speaker 3: this to be a good like a story. She thought

871
00:43:19,085 --> 00:43:21,525
Speaker 3: it was important, and so that's why it was on

872
00:43:21,565 --> 00:43:22,765
Speaker 3: the news both times.

873
00:43:22,925 --> 00:43:23,125
Speaker 2: Yeah.

874
00:43:23,485 --> 00:43:26,445
Speaker 3: Right, she was on our side because she knew what

875
00:43:26,485 --> 00:43:28,205
Speaker 3: had happened to us, you know.

876
00:43:28,725 --> 00:43:31,445
Speaker 1: And yeah, when he said it was what did he say?

877
00:43:31,685 --> 00:43:32,365
Speaker 1: I can't remember.

878
00:43:32,485 --> 00:43:36,125
Speaker 2: He said it was my dark So he's walking into

879
00:43:36,165 --> 00:43:40,605
Speaker 2: court and the reporter says to him, you know, why

880
00:43:40,645 --> 00:43:43,285
Speaker 2: did you do it? And he says something.

881
00:43:43,125 --> 00:43:44,205
Speaker 1: Like dark part of my sight.

882
00:43:44,445 --> 00:43:48,845
Speaker 2: Yeah, the dark part of my psyche manifesting, which I

883
00:43:49,005 --> 00:43:52,365
Speaker 2: also thought was an interesting answer because he didn't at

884
00:43:52,405 --> 00:43:55,645
Speaker 2: that point, he didn't try to make an excuse. He didn't. Yeah,

885
00:43:56,125 --> 00:43:57,565
Speaker 2: but he didn't say he was sorry.

886
00:43:57,805 --> 00:43:58,045
Speaker 1: No.

887
00:43:59,125 --> 00:44:01,445
Speaker 2: But then he was asked how he would feel seeing

888
00:44:01,485 --> 00:44:03,965
Speaker 2: the women in court and how many of you were

889
00:44:03,965 --> 00:44:04,685
Speaker 2: going to be there?

890
00:44:04,765 --> 00:44:06,325
Speaker 3: There was I think eight or nine that were giving

891
00:44:06,325 --> 00:44:08,925
Speaker 3: their victim impact statements, and there was the families.

892
00:44:08,445 --> 00:44:12,125
Speaker 2: Of others, right, And he said, I have to do

893
00:44:12,205 --> 00:44:13,725
Speaker 2: it to see the women.

894
00:44:13,885 --> 00:44:17,005
Speaker 3: Yeah you can read that either way, can't you? Like

895
00:44:17,085 --> 00:44:19,325
Speaker 3: it's I think he has to do it because it's

896
00:44:19,405 --> 00:44:21,085
Speaker 3: legally he has to do it right.

897
00:44:21,205 --> 00:44:23,365
Speaker 1: I mean, I've got a good story with that. Sorry.

898
00:44:23,485 --> 00:44:25,925
Speaker 3: When all the girls met a bit earlier, so I

899
00:44:25,965 --> 00:44:28,445
Speaker 3: brought my mom. I had a lot of friends from

900
00:44:28,485 --> 00:44:32,365
Speaker 3: Mannipa that came. The police and the victim services woman

901
00:44:32,405 --> 00:44:35,685
Speaker 3: took us into the voyer to wait together and go up.

902
00:44:36,285 --> 00:44:39,685
Speaker 3: He unfortunately came in at that time. He saw us

903
00:44:39,685 --> 00:44:41,845
Speaker 3: all sitting there. I was kind of close to him.

904
00:44:42,245 --> 00:44:45,005
Speaker 3: He looked at my partner, Chris, and he told.

905
00:44:44,885 --> 00:44:48,485
Speaker 1: Chris he was sorry. Oh, and then he got up

906
00:44:48,485 --> 00:44:51,445
Speaker 1: in the lift. I told him to turn around.

907
00:44:51,565 --> 00:44:53,765
Speaker 3: But I just thought it was very interesting that you

908
00:44:53,805 --> 00:44:57,805
Speaker 3: pick the only male partner there to say sorry too

909
00:44:57,885 --> 00:45:01,005
Speaker 3: instead of me. I was his friend, Chris wasn't even

910
00:45:01,005 --> 00:45:01,845
Speaker 3: his good friend.

911
00:45:03,365 --> 00:45:05,925
Speaker 2: Do you think because he couldn't look at you? Or

912
00:45:05,925 --> 00:45:12,525
Speaker 2: do you think through his own admitted history of violent pornography,

913
00:45:12,805 --> 00:45:16,005
Speaker 2: we know that that diminishes women. Yeah, in the eyes

914
00:45:16,045 --> 00:45:18,045
Speaker 2: of the man. Do you think it was? Which do

915
00:45:18,125 --> 00:45:19,005
Speaker 2: you think it was?

916
00:45:19,205 --> 00:45:21,645
Speaker 3: Or I don't think he was a range Because when

917
00:45:21,685 --> 00:45:24,965
Speaker 3: we were in court, and I find this very interesting

918
00:45:25,125 --> 00:45:29,285
Speaker 3: as well, we all sat like all the women sat

919
00:45:29,405 --> 00:45:31,525
Speaker 3: very close. All the front row was the women you know,

920
00:45:31,605 --> 00:45:34,405
Speaker 3: and we knew each other, we had met now before.

921
00:45:34,485 --> 00:45:38,205
Speaker 3: We were holding hands very first, because there was two

922
00:45:38,285 --> 00:45:41,405
Speaker 3: different ones. The first one he sat in our eye

923
00:45:41,605 --> 00:45:43,045
Speaker 3: and if you looked at him, he didn't put his

924
00:45:43,045 --> 00:45:44,965
Speaker 3: head down. He would look right back at you. There

925
00:45:45,045 --> 00:45:49,885
Speaker 3: was no shame there. He looked very fine, like this circle,

926
00:45:49,925 --> 00:45:51,045
Speaker 3: like not smiling or anything.

927
00:45:51,045 --> 00:45:53,765
Speaker 2: He's not like But how long was the court case?

928
00:45:53,805 --> 00:45:56,445
Speaker 2: By the way, it was just two days, two days,

929
00:45:56,445 --> 00:46:00,885
Speaker 2: two days, two long days because he pleaded guilty or.

930
00:46:00,925 --> 00:46:03,685
Speaker 3: Guilty, yeah, all of the charges, so twenty six women

931
00:46:04,285 --> 00:46:06,085
Speaker 3: and then they rolled up all the charges, so I

932
00:46:06,125 --> 00:46:08,645
Speaker 3: had something like fifty something of them, but they rolled

933
00:46:08,685 --> 00:46:11,085
Speaker 3: them all into one charge. But when they were reading

934
00:46:11,165 --> 00:46:13,285
Speaker 3: that at the beginning of the court case as well,

935
00:46:13,365 --> 00:46:14,965
Speaker 3: they have to read out every single one, and it

936
00:46:15,005 --> 00:46:18,605
Speaker 3: went for about forty minutes, just right, It's crazy. But

937
00:46:18,645 --> 00:46:21,765
Speaker 3: when he got up to give his whatever they call it,

938
00:46:22,245 --> 00:46:24,365
Speaker 3: my friend had said to me, you know, I don't

939
00:46:24,365 --> 00:46:25,765
Speaker 3: want to be in this room when he does.

940
00:46:26,005 --> 00:46:28,485
Speaker 1: He has nothing to say to me. Does anyone want

941
00:46:28,485 --> 00:46:30,125
Speaker 1: to do that with me? And I was like, I

942
00:46:30,165 --> 00:46:30,885
Speaker 1: feel that way too.

943
00:46:31,005 --> 00:46:33,805
Speaker 3: I don't want to hear his reasons for doing it.

944
00:46:33,845 --> 00:46:35,845
Speaker 3: And I don't want to hear that he's sorry. So

945
00:46:35,885 --> 00:46:37,045
Speaker 3: we got up and we left.

946
00:46:37,405 --> 00:46:39,765
Speaker 1: My partner stayed in there, and really.

947
00:46:39,485 --> 00:46:42,405
Speaker 3: All he was saying, and it came up later, is

948
00:46:42,445 --> 00:46:45,205
Speaker 3: that he thought it would just be an internet thing.

949
00:46:45,405 --> 00:46:50,245
Speaker 3: It was online harm, not real world hard. And the

950
00:46:50,805 --> 00:46:53,325
Speaker 3: judge did not like that in the end remarks that

951
00:46:53,405 --> 00:46:56,645
Speaker 3: she made right, And he was giving out our full names,

952
00:46:56,685 --> 00:47:01,245
Speaker 3: our number addresses, like were the subways we live in,

953
00:47:01,445 --> 00:47:02,525
Speaker 3: and our occupations.

954
00:47:02,725 --> 00:47:03,645
Speaker 1: So I don't know, and I.

955
00:47:03,645 --> 00:47:06,765
Speaker 3: Got all those messages from random men. It's real world harmed.

956
00:47:07,045 --> 00:47:07,445
Speaker 1: He's done.

957
00:47:07,525 --> 00:47:10,685
Speaker 2: So he said this after he's heard all the victim

958
00:47:10,725 --> 00:47:14,285
Speaker 2: impact statements. Yeah, and what did you say in your

959
00:47:14,445 --> 00:47:15,725
Speaker 2: victim impact statement?

960
00:47:16,765 --> 00:47:19,565
Speaker 1: Look, it's quite long, I guess.

961
00:47:20,805 --> 00:47:27,885
Speaker 3: You know, they ask you to go through the ways monetarily, emotionally.

962
00:47:27,285 --> 00:47:29,885
Speaker 1: And all of these things. I think the big takeaways

963
00:47:29,885 --> 00:47:32,965
Speaker 1: from mine, other than the money and stuff like that.

964
00:47:33,085 --> 00:47:36,645
Speaker 3: Is it was a definite harm. It's done to Chris

965
00:47:37,045 --> 00:47:40,085
Speaker 3: and Mine's relationship. You know, taken these years from us.

966
00:47:40,085 --> 00:47:43,085
Speaker 3: It's three years at this point from us where you know,

967
00:47:43,125 --> 00:47:46,165
Speaker 3: our friends are having babies and they're getting married. And

968
00:47:46,205 --> 00:47:49,405
Speaker 3: the other one I think is that I don't know

969
00:47:49,525 --> 00:47:52,085
Speaker 3: if I'll ever make a male friend again, I think

970
00:47:52,165 --> 00:47:54,485
Speaker 3: that might be done for me for my life now

971
00:47:54,565 --> 00:47:55,805
Speaker 3: after having happened.

972
00:47:55,845 --> 00:48:01,405
Speaker 1: I don't see how I could ever do that and

973
00:48:01,445 --> 00:48:04,205
Speaker 1: fully trust someone without thinking that this could happen again.

974
00:48:04,285 --> 00:48:08,405
Speaker 3: The like complete shock to me as someone that I

975
00:48:08,405 --> 00:48:12,405
Speaker 3: thought was pretty good at that's like vetting people that

976
00:48:12,485 --> 00:48:14,445
Speaker 3: this could fly kind of under my radar.

977
00:48:14,765 --> 00:48:17,925
Speaker 1: Has been like world rocking.

978
00:48:18,405 --> 00:48:24,285
Speaker 2: So it did occur to me to wonder about the

979
00:48:24,365 --> 00:48:28,445
Speaker 2: effect it's had on your relationship with Chris. Because your

980
00:48:28,525 --> 00:48:32,005
Speaker 2: partner is and you've been with him so steadfastly for

981
00:48:32,085 --> 00:48:38,205
Speaker 2: thirteen years. He's at once your protector, he's your friend,

982
00:48:38,405 --> 00:48:41,925
Speaker 2: he's your confidante. He's also supposed to be your lover.

983
00:48:44,005 --> 00:48:47,685
Speaker 2: How do you navigate all of that going forward? When

984
00:48:49,205 --> 00:48:53,005
Speaker 2: you've seen the most abhorrent side of men, and even

985
00:48:53,085 --> 00:48:56,965
Speaker 2: though he's a most honorable man and a champion of

986
00:48:57,005 --> 00:48:59,845
Speaker 2: you to the point where I find it quite moving

987
00:48:59,885 --> 00:49:04,605
Speaker 2: and beautiful, how do you as a woman do that?

988
00:49:05,205 --> 00:49:08,605
Speaker 3: I think, in my smart brain, you've got to realize

989
00:49:08,605 --> 00:49:11,325
Speaker 3: it and is he has to be an outlier, even

990
00:49:11,325 --> 00:49:13,645
Speaker 3: though that you've seen so many men on that website,

991
00:49:13,685 --> 00:49:15,765
Speaker 3: there were so many men there were so many threads

992
00:49:15,765 --> 00:49:19,565
Speaker 3: about Sydney girls, people being their actual needs being posted

993
00:49:19,605 --> 00:49:22,245
Speaker 3: on there like crazy, the amount of people from Sydney

994
00:49:22,245 --> 00:49:26,605
Speaker 3: that were on there, And you have to I guess

995
00:49:26,645 --> 00:49:28,885
Speaker 3: you work through it a lot, like obviously I go

996
00:49:28,965 --> 00:49:32,405
Speaker 3: to therapy now and stuff like that. But Chris, there

997
00:49:32,445 --> 00:49:34,325
Speaker 3: has to be some good ones, just the same way

998
00:49:34,365 --> 00:49:37,525
Speaker 3: as I guess there are going to be some really

999
00:49:37,605 --> 00:49:41,925
Speaker 3: evil ones. And he has been so strong for me

1000
00:49:42,085 --> 00:49:45,205
Speaker 3: through it, and you know, such a support and not

1001
00:49:45,325 --> 00:49:49,125
Speaker 3: just a support, just so overtly against what Andy has

1002
00:49:49,165 --> 00:49:51,845
Speaker 3: done and been a support for the women and spend

1003
00:49:51,845 --> 00:49:53,645
Speaker 3: all of his time for those other women as well.

1004
00:49:53,765 --> 00:49:56,565
Speaker 1: So you know, I guess you just got to remember that,

1005
00:49:56,725 --> 00:49:57,965
Speaker 1: you know what what.

1006
00:49:59,685 --> 00:50:02,845
Speaker 2: Told. Do you think it's taken on him? Because it was?

1007
00:50:03,005 --> 00:50:07,245
Speaker 2: It's hard to tell with him because he's just so steadfast.

1008
00:50:08,605 --> 00:50:10,365
Speaker 2: What do you think it's cost him?

1009
00:50:11,165 --> 00:50:14,125
Speaker 1: I don't think that you can look at that website.

1010
00:50:13,645 --> 00:50:15,925
Speaker 3: For that much time and not have some kind of

1011
00:50:16,005 --> 00:50:19,765
Speaker 3: yea emotional I think it was probably harder on him

1012
00:50:19,805 --> 00:50:23,045
Speaker 3: at the very beginning, you know, very shocking. He had,

1013
00:50:23,485 --> 00:50:25,685
Speaker 3: as he said in the Australian story, like he had

1014
00:50:25,685 --> 00:50:26,445
Speaker 3: a panic attack.

1015
00:50:26,525 --> 00:50:28,605
Speaker 1: He's never had born things like that.

1016
00:50:29,925 --> 00:50:32,125
Speaker 3: I think what we are really good at together is

1017
00:50:32,165 --> 00:50:34,525
Speaker 3: talking about this, like we have never kind of.

1018
00:50:35,445 --> 00:50:36,725
Speaker 1: Kept it to ourselves.

1019
00:50:36,805 --> 00:50:39,285
Speaker 3: We always talked about how we were feeling together, and

1020
00:50:39,325 --> 00:50:42,765
Speaker 3: we always approached it together. So I think he's doing well,

1021
00:50:43,325 --> 00:50:45,645
Speaker 3: but you do have to just constantly check in and

1022
00:50:45,685 --> 00:50:48,925
Speaker 3: just make sure because that website is so toxic that

1023
00:50:49,565 --> 00:50:53,565
Speaker 3: time spent on it is. But I do think that

1024
00:50:53,845 --> 00:50:57,525
Speaker 3: as we got this resolution, it's very I don't know

1025
00:50:57,565 --> 00:50:59,685
Speaker 3: what the word is. It's not good, but it's like

1026
00:51:00,245 --> 00:51:03,205
Speaker 3: vindicating all of that work he put in, you know,

1027
00:51:04,205 --> 00:51:04,565
Speaker 3: all of.

1028
00:51:04,525 --> 00:51:05,965
Speaker 1: The time, all of the pushing.

1029
00:51:06,125 --> 00:51:10,205
Speaker 3: It really led to this result, and the result is incredible.

1030
00:51:10,645 --> 00:51:12,645
Speaker 2: The result was he got.

1031
00:51:12,485 --> 00:51:17,085
Speaker 1: Five and a half years non parole nine years older. Yeah,

1032
00:51:17,165 --> 00:51:17,685
Speaker 1: which is.

1033
00:51:17,805 --> 00:51:19,885
Speaker 2: Like unheard of, unheard of.

1034
00:51:21,165 --> 00:51:24,565
Speaker 3: And we were told and the police select to say

1035
00:51:24,565 --> 00:51:25,885
Speaker 3: that they didn't tell us this, but I don't know

1036
00:51:25,925 --> 00:51:28,245
Speaker 3: these words. Before they told me this, he was he

1037
00:51:28,405 --> 00:51:31,445
Speaker 3: was likely to get a non custodial sentence and.

1038
00:51:31,285 --> 00:51:33,925
Speaker 2: Then which means he doesn't go to jail, and.

1039
00:51:33,885 --> 00:51:38,165
Speaker 1: Then he would get something called a community corrections order.

1040
00:51:38,765 --> 00:51:39,925
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that was, so I.

1041
00:51:39,845 --> 00:51:42,525
Speaker 2: Looked it up, but physically, you just you go don't

1042
00:51:42,565 --> 00:51:42,925
Speaker 2: go to jail.

1043
00:51:43,005 --> 00:51:44,165
Speaker 3: You go to jail, but you just got to be

1044
00:51:44,165 --> 00:51:46,485
Speaker 3: good for a little bit. So I thinking that was

1045
00:51:46,525 --> 00:51:48,605
Speaker 3: going to happen that day, and all the girls did

1046
00:51:48,605 --> 00:51:50,885
Speaker 3: because I told them that that's what I was told.

1047
00:51:52,125 --> 00:51:56,365
Speaker 3: We were just shocked when she read it out, like

1048
00:51:56,445 --> 00:51:59,245
Speaker 3: we crah.

1049
00:51:58,485 --> 00:52:03,325
Speaker 1: Like there was because I think the lawyers knew. Obviously

1050
00:52:03,405 --> 00:52:03,845
Speaker 1: they knew.

1051
00:52:04,245 --> 00:52:07,445
Speaker 3: And that second day in court, he looked completely different

1052
00:52:07,445 --> 00:52:08,765
Speaker 3: because he'd been to jail for a week.

1053
00:52:08,765 --> 00:52:11,885
Speaker 1: They put him in jail between two ones. His head

1054
00:52:12,005 --> 00:52:12,765
Speaker 1: was down, he.

1055
00:52:12,805 --> 00:52:15,485
Speaker 3: Was in his a jump suit, and so we were

1056
00:52:15,525 --> 00:52:17,925
Speaker 3: still thinking he wasn't going to jail. We don't know

1057
00:52:17,965 --> 00:52:21,565
Speaker 3: what we're thinking. We decided even a week would be amazing.

1058
00:52:21,885 --> 00:52:24,805
Speaker 3: And then when she said that, like we gasped and

1059
00:52:24,925 --> 00:52:27,925
Speaker 3: everyone cried, and we had girls over the other aisle

1060
00:52:27,965 --> 00:52:30,685
Speaker 3: and we ran into them because we were told was chill.

1061
00:52:31,725 --> 00:52:34,085
Speaker 1: We ran into the middle and like hugged and it

1062
00:52:34,165 --> 00:52:36,045
Speaker 1: was just like, I'll never.

1063
00:52:35,925 --> 00:52:39,325
Speaker 2: Forget it, And how is he did you think to

1064
00:52:39,405 --> 00:52:41,565
Speaker 2: clock him in that moment looked to him.

1065
00:52:41,605 --> 00:52:45,565
Speaker 1: He did nothing. Nothing. I think I think he I think.

1066
00:52:45,405 --> 00:52:48,205
Speaker 3: Maybe the lawyers all knew that this was happening. But

1067
00:52:48,725 --> 00:52:51,805
Speaker 3: I mean, we're not any real part of it. It

1068
00:52:51,885 --> 00:52:55,285
Speaker 3: turns out these things you don't get told anything. No,

1069
00:52:55,645 --> 00:52:57,645
Speaker 3: so he had no reaction and then then.

1070
00:52:58,445 --> 00:53:05,005
Speaker 2: But very I mean, it was a vindicating It was

1071
00:53:05,045 --> 00:53:09,605
Speaker 2: a vindication for you. And also because so often the

1072
00:53:09,605 --> 00:53:16,205
Speaker 2: the victims of sexual crimes are suffer twice. Women suffer

1073
00:53:16,285 --> 00:53:20,765
Speaker 2: twice minimum twice, because there's the crime, there's what you

1074
00:53:20,845 --> 00:53:23,485
Speaker 2: have to take away with and live with, and then

1075
00:53:23,525 --> 00:53:27,805
Speaker 2: there's also this this whole the strata of how you're

1076
00:53:27,845 --> 00:53:30,165
Speaker 2: broken down as a victim as whatever.

1077
00:53:30,845 --> 00:53:31,165
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1078
00:53:31,605 --> 00:53:38,285
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you were believed yeah and it yeah, yeah,

1079
00:53:38,565 --> 00:53:42,565
Speaker 4: so shocking, and I think it was very vindicating.

1080
00:53:42,565 --> 00:53:44,645
Speaker 3: But as you said as well, you know, the judge

1081
00:53:44,685 --> 00:53:46,965
Speaker 3: read out all of the things he'd said, and she

1082
00:53:47,125 --> 00:53:49,645
Speaker 3: was trying to make a point that these things deserve the.

1083
00:53:49,605 --> 00:53:54,325
Speaker 1: Amount of time. But you're sitting there just very like, I.

1084
00:53:54,245 --> 00:53:55,725
Speaker 3: Don't know if the other women had heard all of

1085
00:53:55,725 --> 00:53:58,805
Speaker 3: the things, because I have put together.

1086
00:53:58,525 --> 00:54:00,685
Speaker 1: But you're like, well this is quite really scotoitizing.

1087
00:54:01,725 --> 00:54:05,645
Speaker 2: Yes, they have yes, heard it, like yeah, oh, it's

1088
00:54:05,765 --> 00:54:07,125
Speaker 2: just I don't know.

1089
00:54:07,205 --> 00:54:09,005
Speaker 1: And his family was there and they.

1090
00:54:08,925 --> 00:54:15,205
Speaker 2: Were, oh, oh my god, this is Australia's Criminal Code

1091
00:54:15,285 --> 00:54:19,205
Speaker 2: was amended in August of this year to sentence anyone

1092
00:54:19,245 --> 00:54:24,645
Speaker 2: guilty of creating non consensual deep fake sexually explicit material

1093
00:54:25,725 --> 00:54:27,885
Speaker 2: to up to seven years in prison. Do you think

1094
00:54:27,885 --> 00:54:29,365
Speaker 2: it was a result of your case.

1095
00:54:30,685 --> 00:54:34,365
Speaker 3: No, it was already on the cards, so I don't

1096
00:54:34,365 --> 00:54:37,205
Speaker 3: know if it's that specific one. But because Andy spent

1097
00:54:37,325 --> 00:54:39,685
Speaker 3: so long posting about me, I think it was two years,

1098
00:54:39,685 --> 00:54:41,965
Speaker 3: two and a half years. The very end of my

1099
00:54:42,125 --> 00:54:46,405
Speaker 3: stuff would fall under the new stuff that right, But

1100
00:54:46,485 --> 00:54:48,885
Speaker 3: it was so few as opposed to the six hundred

1101
00:54:48,885 --> 00:54:51,005
Speaker 3: other ones he posted me that they just went, no,

1102
00:54:51,245 --> 00:54:52,205
Speaker 3: do it for the old one.

1103
00:54:52,325 --> 00:54:55,085
Speaker 1: He's going to get more anyway, right, So no, I

1104
00:54:55,085 --> 00:54:57,285
Speaker 1: think that was already coming in. But I think it's

1105
00:54:57,405 --> 00:54:58,445
Speaker 1: so important.

1106
00:54:58,485 --> 00:55:00,445
Speaker 3: I hope it means that women don't have to or

1107
00:55:00,525 --> 00:55:03,085
Speaker 3: men who have this happened to them don't have to

1108
00:55:03,125 --> 00:55:07,845
Speaker 3: absolutely battle through to get any kind of justice, because

1109
00:55:07,845 --> 00:55:11,605
Speaker 3: it shouldn't mean, you know, all that money, all that

1110
00:55:11,765 --> 00:55:14,285
Speaker 3: time we spent and having these kind of connections we

1111
00:55:14,405 --> 00:55:16,925
Speaker 3: had to this lawyer and all sorts of stuff, that

1112
00:55:17,205 --> 00:55:19,565
Speaker 3: you get justice for twenty six women.

1113
00:55:20,205 --> 00:55:23,245
Speaker 2: And also you had someone by your side, and.

1114
00:55:23,085 --> 00:55:24,645
Speaker 1: That's exactly right as well.

1115
00:55:24,805 --> 00:55:27,525
Speaker 3: I mean, you just everything had to fall in place

1116
00:55:27,565 --> 00:55:28,965
Speaker 3: for this one to happen.

1117
00:55:29,525 --> 00:55:31,685
Speaker 1: And this online person they got in contact with me.

1118
00:55:32,205 --> 00:55:38,285
Speaker 2: Just that's amazing, isn't it. Yeah, and actually tried you

1119
00:55:38,445 --> 00:55:42,125
Speaker 2: twice just to under an alias as well. Just click

1120
00:55:42,165 --> 00:55:42,725
Speaker 2: on this link.

1121
00:55:42,965 --> 00:55:45,645
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he still keeps in contact with me today.

1122
00:55:45,685 --> 00:55:47,485
Speaker 3: I mean, he was part of the story too, you know,

1123
00:55:48,365 --> 00:55:50,605
Speaker 3: just is a genuinely good person.

1124
00:55:51,485 --> 00:55:55,125
Speaker 2: So, Hannah, even though and his work, his life, work's

1125
00:55:55,165 --> 00:55:59,925
Speaker 2: been shut down on the internet, the Internet being what

1126
00:56:00,005 --> 00:56:04,365
Speaker 2: it is, these images of you, these adopted images are

1127
00:56:04,925 --> 00:56:05,445
Speaker 2: out there.

1128
00:56:07,125 --> 00:56:12,045
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Chris and I pay for a subscription service

1129
00:56:12,045 --> 00:56:14,805
Speaker 3: and it kind of searches the whole internet for my face,

1130
00:56:15,365 --> 00:56:17,405
Speaker 3: and so quite often they.

1131
00:56:17,285 --> 00:56:17,965
Speaker 1: Still pop up.

1132
00:56:18,045 --> 00:56:20,885
Speaker 3: They're on different websites now, so obviously they're not Andy

1133
00:56:20,965 --> 00:56:23,405
Speaker 3: because he's in prison, but they're just people that have

1134
00:56:23,445 --> 00:56:26,525
Speaker 3: copied them. They're bots hosting them to other porn sites.

1135
00:56:26,525 --> 00:56:29,205
Speaker 3: And when they do pop up, they have my name on.

1136
00:56:29,125 --> 00:56:30,085
Speaker 1: Them as well.

1137
00:56:30,365 --> 00:56:33,245
Speaker 3: And so the way we have dealt with it is

1138
00:56:33,285 --> 00:56:35,525
Speaker 3: we ask the police, and the police have been able

1139
00:56:35,525 --> 00:56:37,845
Speaker 3: to take most of them down, but they're only taking

1140
00:56:37,845 --> 00:56:40,365
Speaker 3: the ones down that we've found and so.

1141
00:56:40,365 --> 00:56:41,725
Speaker 2: It's like playing whack a mole.

1142
00:56:41,845 --> 00:56:44,725
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and then new ones turn up that

1143
00:56:44,765 --> 00:56:48,085
Speaker 3: I haven't even seen, so whether they were on a

1144
00:56:48,125 --> 00:56:50,045
Speaker 3: different website that we've never seen before.

1145
00:56:50,525 --> 00:56:52,965
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just constant. So for me, it's going

1146
00:56:53,005 --> 00:56:55,045
Speaker 1: to be something I think I can tend with for

1147
00:56:55,165 --> 00:56:56,045
Speaker 1: my whole life.

1148
00:56:56,085 --> 00:56:58,845
Speaker 3: So I guess if I have children, or if I

1149
00:56:59,045 --> 00:57:01,125
Speaker 3: get a new job, it's always going to be something

1150
00:57:01,205 --> 00:57:04,325
Speaker 3: that I have to explain to people because they will.

1151
00:57:04,125 --> 00:57:05,005
Speaker 1: Be there forever.

1152
00:57:06,125 --> 00:57:11,405
Speaker 2: Hey, what happened. I'm imagining you're because you're a school teacher.

1153
00:57:11,445 --> 00:57:12,565
Speaker 2: You had to tell the school.

1154
00:57:12,885 --> 00:57:14,325
Speaker 1: Yeah, I told the school immediately.

1155
00:57:14,485 --> 00:57:17,485
Speaker 3: So on that first day after I'd gone to the police,

1156
00:57:18,085 --> 00:57:20,285
Speaker 3: because I just thought they could just send them to

1157
00:57:20,365 --> 00:57:22,965
Speaker 3: the school, and I need them to know that's not

1158
00:57:23,045 --> 00:57:23,325
Speaker 3: of me.

1159
00:57:24,445 --> 00:57:26,805
Speaker 1: So I immediately went to the school.

1160
00:57:26,965 --> 00:57:30,125
Speaker 3: I'm very lucky. You know, it's an independent school and

1161
00:57:30,165 --> 00:57:32,085
Speaker 3: they have just had my back the whole way through.

1162
00:57:32,245 --> 00:57:36,285
Speaker 3: You know, they immediately, well not immediately understand it. You

1163
00:57:36,325 --> 00:57:38,205
Speaker 3: have to explain to people. I find this is the

1164
00:57:38,245 --> 00:57:40,725
Speaker 3: worst part about this kind of deep fake pawn.

1165
00:57:41,085 --> 00:57:44,245
Speaker 1: I guess on a professional level is you have.

1166
00:57:44,245 --> 00:57:48,765
Speaker 3: To explain what it looks like it's not you, you know,

1167
00:57:49,645 --> 00:57:52,565
Speaker 3: and it's damaging in these ways to you, and you've

1168
00:57:52,565 --> 00:57:54,965
Speaker 3: got it. It's just such an awkward conversation to have,

1169
00:57:55,245 --> 00:57:55,445
Speaker 3: you know.

1170
00:57:55,645 --> 00:57:57,165
Speaker 2: And then of course your students.

1171
00:57:57,645 --> 00:58:00,125
Speaker 3: Yeah, so no, I did that at the very beginning,

1172
00:58:00,205 --> 00:58:02,645
Speaker 3: so they were knew right at the get go, and

1173
00:58:02,685 --> 00:58:08,525
Speaker 3: then the girls only knew right before the Australian story.

1174
00:58:08,245 --> 00:58:11,365
Speaker 2: Came out, right, And how is it now with them?

1175
00:58:11,765 --> 00:58:14,525
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean they're just amazing, you know.

1176
00:58:14,925 --> 00:58:17,405
Speaker 3: They I have like right now, I'm just looking at

1177
00:58:17,445 --> 00:58:20,125
Speaker 3: they're like, I got, you know, this massive bunch of flowers.

1178
00:58:20,165 --> 00:58:22,365
Speaker 3: I got this anonymous bunch of flowers from the girls

1179
00:58:22,445 --> 00:58:23,165
Speaker 3: just saying you know.

1180
00:58:23,365 --> 00:58:25,525
Speaker 1: Oh, it's just the sweetest cut ever. I can't read

1181
00:58:25,605 --> 00:58:26,605
Speaker 1: out our cry, but you.

1182
00:58:26,565 --> 00:58:29,365
Speaker 2: Know this is from your I don't know.

1183
00:58:29,405 --> 00:58:31,565
Speaker 3: They just put it on my desk, the bengest thing

1184
00:58:31,605 --> 00:58:33,605
Speaker 3: I've ever read, and with a bunch of flowers.

1185
00:58:33,725 --> 00:58:35,485
Speaker 1: This was the day after I came back from court.

1186
00:58:36,125 --> 00:58:37,165
Speaker 2: Okay, dear miss.

1187
00:58:37,005 --> 00:58:39,845
Speaker 1: Brundy, we hope you are well. We wanted to tell.

1188
00:58:39,725 --> 00:58:41,685
Speaker 3: You that we think what you did was really brave

1189
00:58:41,765 --> 00:58:43,845
Speaker 3: and we really look up to you and how you

1190
00:58:43,885 --> 00:58:46,805
Speaker 3: were able to speak out it really inspired us to

1191
00:58:46,845 --> 00:58:49,765
Speaker 3: be strong and not stay quiet. Thank you for being

1192
00:58:49,765 --> 00:58:52,485
Speaker 3: such a great role model. You're the best science teacher

1193
00:58:52,525 --> 00:58:53,565
Speaker 3: and we love you so much.

1194
00:58:54,365 --> 00:58:58,245
Speaker 1: Oh it's so nice, isn't it. But I got lots

1195
00:58:58,285 --> 00:59:01,365
Speaker 1: of things like that, and you just it was the

1196
00:59:01,445 --> 00:59:01,965
Speaker 1: right view.

1197
00:59:03,045 --> 00:59:08,245
Speaker 2: So yeah, do you know what, You're just so lovely

1198
00:59:09,445 --> 00:59:12,125
Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in an angel sense of lovely.

1199
00:59:12,805 --> 00:59:17,805
Speaker 2: I mean that you're just a valiant, beautiful, honorable woman

1200
00:59:18,285 --> 00:59:24,765
Speaker 2: who is deeply loved, and I hope the future rises

1201
00:59:24,805 --> 00:59:27,125
Speaker 2: to meet you the way that you deserve.

1202
00:59:27,725 --> 00:59:29,405
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1203
00:59:29,405 --> 00:59:32,645
Speaker 2: You may crying now, Well, I think what you're doing

1204
00:59:32,765 --> 00:59:37,805
Speaker 2: is so important if someone who's listening is in a

1205
00:59:38,325 --> 00:59:46,005
Speaker 2: similar situation. Because your first contact with the police was unsatisfactory,

1206
00:59:47,325 --> 00:59:52,925
Speaker 2: but subsequently it was extremely satisfactory, what would you suggest

1207
00:59:53,085 --> 00:59:56,805
Speaker 2: to someone who's kind of all, let's see about how

1208
00:59:56,845 --> 01:00:00,845
Speaker 2: to proceed pursuing justice for themselves or even to get

1209
01:00:00,885 --> 01:00:02,085
Speaker 2: an end to something.

1210
01:00:03,325 --> 01:00:06,165
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very difficult question.

1211
01:00:06,445 --> 01:00:09,605
Speaker 3: I think since my story went to air, I've had

1212
01:00:09,605 --> 01:00:12,605
Speaker 3: a lot of women contact me on Instagram or Facebook

1213
01:00:12,685 --> 01:00:15,485
Speaker 3: or things all over the place with the same problem.

1214
01:00:17,045 --> 01:00:20,365
Speaker 1: I don't know. I hope that because of us going

1215
01:00:20,405 --> 01:00:21,765
Speaker 1: and saying.

1216
01:00:21,405 --> 01:00:24,645
Speaker 3: These things and doing these news reports and everything, that

1217
01:00:24,805 --> 01:00:29,365
Speaker 3: maybe they'll have a different experience, and I I would say,

1218
01:00:29,485 --> 01:00:30,405
Speaker 3: just don't give up.

1219
01:00:30,485 --> 01:00:32,445
Speaker 1: But I think that's really difficult if you're in a

1220
01:00:32,445 --> 01:00:37,165
Speaker 1: different position to me. I think I just really hope

1221
01:00:37,565 --> 01:00:39,245
Speaker 1: that you know, they have.

1222
01:00:39,245 --> 01:00:41,645
Speaker 3: A different experience to me, because I don't think you

1223
01:00:41,645 --> 01:00:42,485
Speaker 3: should have to.

1224
01:00:42,445 --> 01:00:44,285
Speaker 1: Fight for this, and I don't think you should have

1225
01:00:44,325 --> 01:00:45,125
Speaker 1: to tell them don't.

1226
01:00:44,925 --> 01:00:50,325
Speaker 3: Give up, because it's actually too hard for a lot.

1227
01:00:50,565 --> 01:00:53,325
Speaker 2: Did you at any point think about giving up?

1228
01:00:53,525 --> 01:00:54,605
Speaker 1: No, I was so angry.

1229
01:00:54,925 --> 01:00:58,565
Speaker 3: Chris and I am a very we're the same type

1230
01:00:58,565 --> 01:01:01,965
Speaker 3: of person in the way that we were so so

1231
01:01:02,325 --> 01:01:06,805
Speaker 3: mad about this that we would have spent anything to

1232
01:01:06,965 --> 01:01:07,725
Speaker 3: get him in that.

1233
01:01:07,805 --> 01:01:10,485
Speaker 2: Jail, you know, righteous anger.

1234
01:01:10,965 --> 01:01:14,205
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were just you know, how can this person

1235
01:01:14,205 --> 01:01:17,965
Speaker 3: have done this to us? So I guess I would say,

1236
01:01:17,965 --> 01:01:20,925
Speaker 3: I hope they have a different experience, you know, stay strong.

1237
01:01:21,045 --> 01:01:23,285
Speaker 3: I would let other people know about it. Don't be

1238
01:01:23,365 --> 01:01:26,565
Speaker 3: embarrassed about it. People say they would be embarrassed, but

1239
01:01:26,645 --> 01:01:29,605
Speaker 3: for me, it's like, I don't know what you're embarrassed about.

1240
01:01:29,645 --> 01:01:33,045
Speaker 1: They're not photos of you, you know, they're not. And

1241
01:01:34,365 --> 01:01:36,165
Speaker 1: even if they were photos of you. They shouldn't be

1242
01:01:36,165 --> 01:01:36,965
Speaker 1: spread around the internet.

1243
01:01:37,045 --> 01:01:41,885
Speaker 3: But you just have to stay strong and you know,

1244
01:01:43,205 --> 01:01:45,965
Speaker 3: don't be ashamed of this. It's it's going to happen

1245
01:01:46,005 --> 01:01:50,085
Speaker 3: to a lot more people, and you know, seek help,

1246
01:01:50,125 --> 01:01:53,405
Speaker 3: get help from people, and you know, stay strong.

1247
01:01:54,005 --> 01:01:55,525
Speaker 2: What does Chris want to happen?

1248
01:01:55,845 --> 01:01:56,965
Speaker 1: What does Chris want to happen?

1249
01:01:57,045 --> 01:01:57,245
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1250
01:01:57,325 --> 01:01:58,005
Speaker 2: What does he want?

1251
01:01:58,005 --> 01:01:59,205
Speaker 1: What does he want at the moment?

1252
01:01:59,285 --> 01:02:00,285
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is he want?

1253
01:02:00,525 --> 01:02:03,125
Speaker 1: He's always looking to buy another house us from.

1254
01:02:04,605 --> 01:02:07,205
Speaker 2: I don't want actually maybe not bad to leave the house.

1255
01:02:07,285 --> 01:02:11,045
Speaker 3: Yeah, so well, look that doesn't future, you know, just

1256
01:02:11,085 --> 01:02:13,085
Speaker 3: a nice one and just a lot of time to

1257
01:02:13,085 --> 01:02:16,525
Speaker 3: spend with our friends and family and not have it

1258
01:02:17,085 --> 01:02:20,325
Speaker 3: this being the constant I'm doing things like this now,

1259
01:02:20,365 --> 01:02:24,045
Speaker 3: it's not the constant talk of our every conversation anymore.

1260
01:02:24,085 --> 01:02:28,565
Speaker 3: Like it's very infrequent, and it's it's lighter now, and

1261
01:02:29,165 --> 01:02:32,005
Speaker 3: you know, we get to joke about it. So I

1262
01:02:32,005 --> 01:02:34,205
Speaker 3: guess that's what we're both looking forward to, just you know,

1263
01:02:35,085 --> 01:02:38,685
Speaker 3: regular life, even if it's squatted with these times, you know,

1264
01:02:38,925 --> 01:02:39,525
Speaker 3: getting back to.

1265
01:02:39,565 --> 01:02:43,325
Speaker 2: Law beautiful, a simple.

1266
01:02:43,085 --> 01:02:45,085
Speaker 1: Life, Yeah, a simple and boring life.

1267
01:02:46,765 --> 01:02:48,925
Speaker 2: Well, I hope you, I hope you have a really

1268
01:02:48,965 --> 01:02:58,005
Speaker 2: boring life. That's my wish for you. Hannah is undeniably remarkable,

1269
01:02:58,125 --> 01:03:03,685
Speaker 2: isn't she. Her three year battle for justice, despite countless setbacks,

1270
01:03:04,325 --> 01:03:08,165
Speaker 2: highlights the challenges of navigating a legal system that's still

1271
01:03:08,205 --> 01:03:12,565
Speaker 2: playing catch up with complexity of Internet crimes. Through her

1272
01:03:12,725 --> 01:03:18,285
Speaker 2: courage and determination, Hannah has created a lasting legacy, a

1273
01:03:18,405 --> 01:03:22,005
Speaker 2: landmark case. In fact, it marked the first time in

1274
01:03:22,045 --> 01:03:26,565
Speaker 2: Australia that someone was charged with sharing digitally altered intimate

1275
01:03:26,605 --> 01:03:31,005
Speaker 2: images or deep fake pornography. This case has paved the

1276
01:03:31,005 --> 01:03:34,445
Speaker 2: way for a growing number of similar cases involving the

1277
01:03:34,485 --> 01:03:39,805
Speaker 2: non consensual uploading of digitally altered sexually explicit images. At

1278
01:03:39,845 --> 01:03:44,805
Speaker 2: Andrew Hayler's sentencing, Judge Jane Culver described the decision as

1279
01:03:45,045 --> 01:03:51,645
Speaker 2: an appropriate vehicle for general deterrence. Thanks to Hannah and

1280
01:03:51,725 --> 01:03:55,805
Speaker 2: her devoted and honorable partner and the other brave women

1281
01:03:55,885 --> 01:03:59,885
Speaker 2: who stood up in court, future victims of AI driven

1282
01:03:59,925 --> 01:04:04,605
Speaker 2: crimes now have hope for justice. The executive producer of

1283
01:04:04,645 --> 01:04:07,845
Speaker 2: No Filter is Naima Brown and the senior producer is

1284
01:04:07,925 --> 01:04:12,525
Speaker 2: Grace Ruvrey. Audio production is by Jacob Brown and I'm

1285
01:04:12,565 --> 01:04:15,365
Speaker 2: your host Kate lane Brook. Thank you for listening.