1
00:00:10,327 --> 00:00:13,047
Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

2
00:00:13,727 --> 00:00:16,767
Speaker 2: Mama Mayor acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

3
00:00:16,807 --> 00:00:18,647
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded.

4
00:00:18,247 --> 00:00:23,967
Speaker 1: On Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out Loud. What

5
00:00:24,127 --> 00:00:27,367
Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the twenty sixth

6
00:00:27,367 --> 00:00:29,927
Speaker 1: of June. I'm Meya Friedman and I'm in the driving

7
00:00:29,967 --> 00:00:32,487
Speaker 1: seat while Holly is away today, So strap in.

8
00:00:32,687 --> 00:00:35,887
Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm Jemmy buff I pop into

9
00:00:35,967 --> 00:00:38,847
Speaker 3: Mama Mia out Loud from time to time nowadays.

10
00:00:38,567 --> 00:00:41,367
Speaker 1: Some things need to be explained to us exactly. And

11
00:00:41,447 --> 00:00:44,207
Speaker 1: on the show today, speaking of things we need explained,

12
00:00:44,287 --> 00:00:48,207
Speaker 1: everyone's talking about Wikileak's founder Julian Esanche, who has today

13
00:00:48,727 --> 00:00:52,447
Speaker 1: made a deal as we're recording, to finally be released

14
00:00:52,567 --> 00:00:55,527
Speaker 1: from prison. And by the time you hear this, he

15
00:00:55,607 --> 00:00:58,807
Speaker 1: should have landed home in Australia. And if you're confused

16
00:00:58,847 --> 00:01:00,847
Speaker 1: about what it all means, we are going to give

17
00:01:00,847 --> 00:01:02,767
Speaker 1: you a top line so that you can feel smart

18
00:01:03,007 --> 00:01:05,207
Speaker 1: without having to actually read anything about it.

19
00:01:05,607 --> 00:01:07,847
Speaker 4: I'd also I wouldn't mind knowing how to feel about

20
00:01:07,887 --> 00:01:10,847
Speaker 4: it and maybe developing some sort of opinion. At the moment,

21
00:01:10,887 --> 00:01:12,007
Speaker 4: I'm a bit confed.

22
00:01:11,687 --> 00:01:14,527
Speaker 1: I'm hoping we'll have an opinion by the end of it. Plus,

23
00:01:14,567 --> 00:01:17,727
Speaker 1: are you a rememberer or a forgetter? I've already forgotten

24
00:01:17,727 --> 00:01:19,887
Speaker 1: what this segment is about, but I am sure it's

25
00:01:19,927 --> 00:01:23,727
Speaker 1: going to be fascinating. Apparently I wrote this part down.

26
00:01:23,967 --> 00:01:26,727
Speaker 1: Being a forgetter is far easier, so that's good news

27
00:01:26,727 --> 00:01:29,967
Speaker 1: for me. Who am I again? Who can say? And

28
00:01:30,367 --> 00:01:33,927
Speaker 1: did Kim Kardashian just say the quiet part out loud?

29
00:01:34,567 --> 00:01:37,247
Speaker 1: She claims that she only has ten years left of

30
00:01:37,327 --> 00:01:40,087
Speaker 1: looking good and we need to unpack what that means

31
00:01:40,367 --> 00:01:41,207
Speaker 1: for the rest of us.

32
00:01:41,527 --> 00:01:44,207
Speaker 4: But first, in case you missed it, you are not

33
00:01:44,287 --> 00:01:47,967
Speaker 4: imagining it. You're freezing. And that's because Australian homes are

34
00:01:48,007 --> 00:01:50,647
Speaker 4: among the coldest in the world according to the World

35
00:01:50,847 --> 00:01:56,127
Speaker 4: Health Organization. So this Canadian TikToker named Alexandra Towey said

36
00:01:56,127 --> 00:01:58,687
Speaker 4: in a video recently that even though she comes from Canada,

37
00:01:58,727 --> 00:02:03,687
Speaker 4: where you know we're talking minus twenty sometimes, she has

38
00:02:03,887 --> 00:02:07,847
Speaker 4: never been so cold as living in a Melbourne sharehouse.

39
00:02:07,847 --> 00:02:09,887
Speaker 4: She says, the coldest I've ever been is living in

40
00:02:09,887 --> 00:02:12,727
Speaker 4: a Melbourne sharehouse in the middle of July and laying

41
00:02:12,727 --> 00:02:15,087
Speaker 4: in my own bed trying to sleep and being able

42
00:02:15,127 --> 00:02:17,647
Speaker 4: to see my own breath while only being able to

43
00:02:17,647 --> 00:02:21,767
Speaker 4: warm myself with a tiny space heater and an electric blanket.

44
00:02:22,167 --> 00:02:26,767
Speaker 4: Apparently this is because Australian homes are poorly insulated with

45
00:02:26,887 --> 00:02:30,847
Speaker 4: inefficient heaters which are incredibly expensive to run, particularly at

46
00:02:30,887 --> 00:02:36,487
Speaker 4: the moment. In Tasmania, for example, the average temperature inside

47
00:02:36,487 --> 00:02:41,167
Speaker 4: a home in winter is eleven degrees and in Melbourne

48
00:02:41,367 --> 00:02:44,207
Speaker 4: one in four homes are under fourteen degrees.

49
00:02:44,567 --> 00:02:46,167
Speaker 1: I have a theory about why this is.

50
00:02:47,167 --> 00:02:48,567
Speaker 4: Are you going to say, put on a jump because

51
00:02:48,607 --> 00:02:51,047
Speaker 4: I do not have any for that.

52
00:02:53,127 --> 00:02:54,007
Speaker 3: Put another layer?

53
00:02:54,047 --> 00:02:57,687
Speaker 1: Oh no, I think it is because we are in

54
00:02:57,767 --> 00:03:00,927
Speaker 1: denial in Australia about the fact that it is ever cult.

55
00:03:01,327 --> 00:03:02,087
Speaker 4: I agree with you.

56
00:03:02,167 --> 00:03:05,367
Speaker 1: That's why you can go down to Sydney is particularly

57
00:03:05,367 --> 00:03:06,807
Speaker 1: bad at this. I was going to say Bondai, but

58
00:03:06,847 --> 00:03:09,927
Speaker 1: anywhere really in Sydney people will be wearing thongs and

59
00:03:09,927 --> 00:03:10,607
Speaker 1: a beanie.

60
00:03:11,447 --> 00:03:14,287
Speaker 3: I disagree because I lived in London for two years.

61
00:03:14,887 --> 00:03:18,167
Speaker 3: Obviously it's incredibly cold over there in winter. I prefer

62
00:03:18,207 --> 00:03:19,087
Speaker 3: the winter over there to.

63
00:03:19,047 --> 00:03:22,647
Speaker 1: Hear, because everyone knows it's winter. See, no one's pretending

64
00:03:22,687 --> 00:03:23,087
Speaker 1: it's summer.

65
00:03:23,167 --> 00:03:25,327
Speaker 4: Well, because our homes are freezing.

66
00:03:26,007 --> 00:03:26,407
Speaker 5: Yeah.

67
00:03:26,447 --> 00:03:29,207
Speaker 3: My husband went to sleep last night. We've got a douner,

68
00:03:29,567 --> 00:03:32,327
Speaker 3: a blanket, a sheet, all the layers. He was wearing

69
00:03:32,647 --> 00:03:34,727
Speaker 3: a hoodie with the actual hood on.

70
00:03:35,207 --> 00:03:36,407
Speaker 4: Yeah, while he was sleepy.

71
00:03:36,487 --> 00:03:37,087
Speaker 1: You have a heater.

72
00:03:37,927 --> 00:03:40,087
Speaker 3: The thing is, my son has two heaters in his.

73
00:03:40,087 --> 00:03:42,287
Speaker 1: Room, okay, and then he's hugging them.

74
00:03:43,407 --> 00:03:46,407
Speaker 3: I would prefer he sleep through the night. Yeah, and

75
00:03:46,487 --> 00:03:49,167
Speaker 3: I'd be cold. That's what we do in our house

76
00:03:49,167 --> 00:03:51,007
Speaker 3: because it's like, I'd prefer my son to be warm

77
00:03:51,047 --> 00:03:52,807
Speaker 3: and the rest of us just shiver it out.

78
00:03:52,847 --> 00:03:56,287
Speaker 4: Our house is so cold, it's so cool, it's like

79
00:03:56,807 --> 00:03:59,487
Speaker 4: and will put heating on, although it's very expensive, so

80
00:03:59,567 --> 00:04:01,487
Speaker 4: you kind of try not to. But it's like there's

81
00:04:01,487 --> 00:04:04,487
Speaker 4: always a draft coming from somewhere. There's no it feels

82
00:04:04,487 --> 00:04:07,007
Speaker 4: like there's no insulation in your walls.

83
00:04:07,047 --> 00:04:07,967
Speaker 3: It's not built like.

84
00:04:07,927 --> 00:04:11,327
Speaker 4: I was in Ireland recently, the way those homes are built.

85
00:04:11,767 --> 00:04:14,847
Speaker 4: On a cold day, it is incredibly warm inside, and

86
00:04:14,887 --> 00:04:17,967
Speaker 4: the World Health Organization says it should be minimum like

87
00:04:18,087 --> 00:04:21,207
Speaker 4: eighteen degrees inside a house for you to be healthy,

88
00:04:21,247 --> 00:04:25,047
Speaker 4: because mold grows, because there are physical effects, and also

89
00:04:25,087 --> 00:04:26,687
Speaker 4: they said no one wants to have people over because

90
00:04:26,687 --> 00:04:28,167
Speaker 4: their house is too cold.

91
00:04:28,447 --> 00:04:30,287
Speaker 3: I don't think our windows are sealed properly.

92
00:04:30,567 --> 00:04:32,887
Speaker 4: No, my window is like I feel like my tongue

93
00:04:32,887 --> 00:04:34,727
Speaker 4: would stick to it. Yes, if I like put went

94
00:04:34,767 --> 00:04:35,807
Speaker 4: anywhere near my window.

95
00:04:35,887 --> 00:04:37,327
Speaker 3: But then what are you supposed to do? Because I

96
00:04:37,367 --> 00:04:40,647
Speaker 3: just got my energy bill and I gasped. It was

97
00:04:40,647 --> 00:04:41,687
Speaker 3: in the five hundreds.

98
00:04:41,967 --> 00:04:43,327
Speaker 4: It's insane, it's in sanity.

99
00:04:43,767 --> 00:04:45,727
Speaker 3: So what do I just get another few heaters in

100
00:04:45,767 --> 00:04:46,087
Speaker 3: my house?

101
00:04:46,127 --> 00:04:46,207
Speaker 5: Like?

102
00:04:46,287 --> 00:04:47,167
Speaker 3: We can't afford that.

103
00:04:47,207 --> 00:04:49,167
Speaker 1: I know out loud as we want to know how

104
00:04:49,207 --> 00:04:50,847
Speaker 1: do we stay warm? Should we just put on a

105
00:04:50,927 --> 00:04:52,727
Speaker 1: jump up and harden up.

106
00:04:52,727 --> 00:04:54,207
Speaker 4: And thoughts some preyers to Tasmanian.

107
00:04:54,407 --> 00:04:58,407
Speaker 3: Yes, now to our breaking news and Julia Assange is

108
00:04:58,527 --> 00:05:00,727
Speaker 3: just hours away from being a freeman.

109
00:05:01,047 --> 00:05:04,287
Speaker 1: Everyone's talking today about the release of Australian journalists. Is

110
00:05:04,327 --> 00:05:07,687
Speaker 1: he a journalist and founder of Wiki Leaks Julian Assange

111
00:05:08,047 --> 00:05:11,807
Speaker 1: from prison today after more than a decade long legal battle.

112
00:05:11,847 --> 00:05:15,367
Speaker 1: Today Assange faced a court in Saipan, which is a

113
00:05:15,567 --> 00:05:19,207
Speaker 1: US territory, but it's like a little island somewhere.

114
00:05:18,847 --> 00:05:22,967
Speaker 3: Not it's US territory, kind of like Hawaii. It's American soil,

115
00:05:23,047 --> 00:05:24,647
Speaker 3: but it's not actually in America.

116
00:05:24,807 --> 00:05:27,647
Speaker 1: He pleaded guilty to one count of conspiring to obtain

117
00:05:27,767 --> 00:05:31,727
Speaker 1: and disclose national defense information, So basically, he pleaded guilty

118
00:05:31,847 --> 00:05:35,247
Speaker 1: to the charge of espionage. As we're recording, Assange's due

119
00:05:35,287 --> 00:05:37,887
Speaker 1: to arrive in Canberra. He's meant to touch down just

120
00:05:37,927 --> 00:05:41,767
Speaker 1: before seven pm tonight. Gemma. When I woke up and

121
00:05:41,807 --> 00:05:44,767
Speaker 1: saw this everywhere, I tried to understand what was going on,

122
00:05:44,807 --> 00:05:46,647
Speaker 1: but I found that every report assumed a lot of

123
00:05:46,767 --> 00:05:49,127
Speaker 1: knowledge and sort of started in the middle of the story.

124
00:05:49,887 --> 00:05:52,007
Speaker 1: And I'm going to be honest, I don't care a

125
00:05:52,047 --> 00:05:55,047
Speaker 1: huge amount about this man, but I realize it's big news.

126
00:05:55,047 --> 00:05:56,967
Speaker 1: Can you please explain it to me? Like I'm five

127
00:05:57,047 --> 00:05:57,487
Speaker 1: years old.

128
00:05:58,127 --> 00:06:00,007
Speaker 3: I think we need to go back to the start, because,

129
00:06:00,047 --> 00:06:03,767
Speaker 3: as you said, this story is so incredibly long. I

130
00:06:03,807 --> 00:06:06,807
Speaker 3: think I've been in journalism since twenty twelve. I've reported

131
00:06:06,807 --> 00:06:09,047
Speaker 3: on this story pretty much every year of my entire

132
00:06:09,047 --> 00:06:13,007
Speaker 3: care because it's just been around forever. It starts in

133
00:06:13,007 --> 00:06:16,687
Speaker 3: two thousand and six. Julian starts a website. It's called WikiLeaks,

134
00:06:16,847 --> 00:06:21,047
Speaker 3: and he basically takes anonymous kind of leaks of information

135
00:06:21,167 --> 00:06:22,007
Speaker 3: and publishes them.

136
00:06:22,207 --> 00:06:24,247
Speaker 1: And what was he before that? Was he like an academic,

137
00:06:24,287 --> 00:06:26,247
Speaker 1: like what was he, well.

138
00:06:26,207 --> 00:06:30,167
Speaker 4: Hacker, Yeah, he kind of got his start hacking, which

139
00:06:30,207 --> 00:06:33,247
Speaker 4: I think then hacking had very different connotations to what

140
00:06:33,367 --> 00:06:34,487
Speaker 4: it does now.

141
00:06:35,087 --> 00:06:37,487
Speaker 3: Well, I think he was actually known that he was

142
00:06:37,527 --> 00:06:39,807
Speaker 3: coined as like Australia's most prolific hacker.

143
00:06:40,207 --> 00:06:42,487
Speaker 1: Was he hacking for good or evil? Who knows?

144
00:06:42,487 --> 00:06:44,807
Speaker 4: Well, it depends. It depends on and I think that

145
00:06:44,847 --> 00:06:48,567
Speaker 4: the answer is probably both. When you're a hacker and

146
00:06:48,607 --> 00:06:50,927
Speaker 4: you get And this is the question of whether just

147
00:06:51,207 --> 00:06:54,647
Speaker 4: a massive data dump his journalism or not, because from

148
00:06:54,647 --> 00:06:57,127
Speaker 4: what I've seen, he got all this data and then

149
00:06:57,127 --> 00:07:01,447
Speaker 4: he shed it. He believes in transparency that had impacts

150
00:07:01,487 --> 00:07:04,767
Speaker 4: where there were things happening that we should have known about.

151
00:07:05,087 --> 00:07:07,847
Speaker 4: So things that the US military were doing in Iraq, yeah, great,

152
00:07:08,087 --> 00:07:12,167
Speaker 4: there were other things, but it led to civilian deaths potentially.

153
00:07:12,087 --> 00:07:15,407
Speaker 1: Or because they were released by wiki lanes information exactly

154
00:07:15,487 --> 00:07:17,727
Speaker 1: performance in certain countries.

155
00:07:17,287 --> 00:07:19,967
Speaker 4: Yeah, or like I think there's questions about collusion with

156
00:07:20,047 --> 00:07:23,047
Speaker 4: Rushat like it's all very very weedy, but he's a

157
00:07:23,047 --> 00:07:25,007
Speaker 4: hero in the eyes of some and villain in the

158
00:07:25,007 --> 00:07:25,927
Speaker 4: eyes of others.

159
00:07:26,287 --> 00:07:28,367
Speaker 3: To explain what happened next, So he does all of

160
00:07:28,367 --> 00:07:31,327
Speaker 3: these big dumps as jesse mentions of all of these

161
00:07:31,447 --> 00:07:34,607
Speaker 3: kinds of data liks, so things like one of the

162
00:07:34,647 --> 00:07:38,807
Speaker 3: big ones that you remember is ninety thousand classified documents

163
00:07:38,887 --> 00:07:40,367
Speaker 3: related to the war in Afghanistan.

164
00:07:40,847 --> 00:07:43,607
Speaker 4: So do we know where those documents came from? Where

165
00:07:43,647 --> 00:07:46,887
Speaker 4: he got tens of thousands of documents about like classified

166
00:07:47,167 --> 00:07:48,647
Speaker 4: US military information?

167
00:07:48,927 --> 00:07:51,087
Speaker 3: Yes, a woman named Chelsea Manning, she worked for the

168
00:07:51,167 --> 00:07:55,327
Speaker 3: US Army. She leaked a number of documents to Assange,

169
00:07:55,327 --> 00:07:57,967
Speaker 3: and she ended up serving seven years for her part

170
00:07:58,007 --> 00:07:58,487
Speaker 3: in that.

171
00:07:58,607 --> 00:08:00,287
Speaker 1: Before she was pardoned by Barack Obama.

172
00:08:00,407 --> 00:08:01,647
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.

173
00:08:01,847 --> 00:08:04,207
Speaker 3: And then in terms of what Assange has been facing,

174
00:08:04,407 --> 00:08:07,687
Speaker 3: in twenty ten, an international arrest warrant was issued for him.

175
00:08:07,727 --> 00:08:09,967
Speaker 3: That it wasn't for the leaks, it was for sexual

176
00:08:09,967 --> 00:08:10,927
Speaker 3: assault charges.

177
00:08:11,167 --> 00:08:14,447
Speaker 1: I remember this now. This was and two women in Sweden,

178
00:08:14,447 --> 00:08:16,247
Speaker 1: two women, and he said that had sex with him

179
00:08:16,247 --> 00:08:19,367
Speaker 1: and he'd removed the condom without their permission. Is that correct?

180
00:08:19,447 --> 00:08:19,767
Speaker 5: Yes?

181
00:08:19,807 --> 00:08:23,607
Speaker 4: But then some people said that they were like plants, Yeah,

182
00:08:23,647 --> 00:08:27,247
Speaker 4: to just get him off, like onto different soils so

183
00:08:27,247 --> 00:08:28,567
Speaker 4: that they could arrest him or something.

184
00:08:28,887 --> 00:08:30,967
Speaker 3: Well, that's what Assane was worried about. He was worried

185
00:08:30,967 --> 00:08:34,247
Speaker 3: that those extradition kind of orders were basically going to

186
00:08:34,287 --> 00:08:37,647
Speaker 3: get him into America to face espionage charges. So that

187
00:08:37,767 --> 00:08:40,327
Speaker 3: is why he went to the Ecuadorian embassy in London

188
00:08:40,407 --> 00:08:44,727
Speaker 3: and said help me, and they took him in for seven.

189
00:08:44,887 --> 00:08:47,727
Speaker 1: Years and they did not know what they were getting

190
00:08:47,767 --> 00:08:48,047
Speaker 1: into me.

191
00:08:48,167 --> 00:08:49,167
Speaker 3: They didn't.

192
00:08:50,807 --> 00:08:55,527
Speaker 1: They had no extradition treaty, and essentially he was safe there.

193
00:08:55,727 --> 00:08:59,287
Speaker 1: I read some really interesting stories about what his life

194
00:08:59,367 --> 00:09:02,607
Speaker 1: was like there, because he was kind of like the

195
00:09:02,647 --> 00:09:05,807
Speaker 1: house guest that just never leaves. So he had like

196
00:09:05,887 --> 00:09:09,807
Speaker 1: some rooms there and all random celebrit would come and

197
00:09:09,887 --> 00:09:12,287
Speaker 1: visit him, like Pamela Anderson, who he was rumored to

198
00:09:12,327 --> 00:09:15,247
Speaker 1: have had a relationship with. He fathered several children while

199
00:09:15,287 --> 00:09:18,207
Speaker 1: he was there, a young kids. He fell in love

200
00:09:18,407 --> 00:09:20,807
Speaker 1: with his lawyer, but then they got sick of him

201
00:09:20,807 --> 00:09:22,887
Speaker 1: being there. So he would like be I learned all

202
00:09:22,887 --> 00:09:24,887
Speaker 1: this on the quickie this morning. He would be like

203
00:09:24,967 --> 00:09:27,367
Speaker 1: riding a skateboard up and down the corridors. He then

204
00:09:27,407 --> 00:09:30,287
Speaker 1: at one point smeared excrement all over the walls.

205
00:09:30,527 --> 00:09:33,367
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did that stuck in my head. Ye, that's

206
00:09:33,407 --> 00:09:34,367
Speaker 4: not appropriate for a house.

207
00:09:34,567 --> 00:09:37,447
Speaker 3: It sounds like a housemate from hell from our twenties.

208
00:09:37,607 --> 00:09:39,247
Speaker 4: So then they wanted to kick him out right.

209
00:09:39,407 --> 00:09:41,407
Speaker 3: They did kick him out right. They kicked him out,

210
00:09:41,447 --> 00:09:41,847
Speaker 3: and then he.

211
00:09:41,767 --> 00:09:45,167
Speaker 1: Was arrested here. They kicked him out. He was arrested

212
00:09:45,407 --> 00:09:48,367
Speaker 1: after seven years of being in that embassy and his

213
00:09:48,447 --> 00:09:50,567
Speaker 1: health and his mental health was not good, and there

214
00:09:50,647 --> 00:09:53,847
Speaker 1: was that vision of him being carried out sort of

215
00:09:54,207 --> 00:09:56,487
Speaker 1: kicking and screaming, and then what happened to him?

216
00:09:56,647 --> 00:09:57,047
Speaker 5: So he was.

217
00:09:57,127 --> 00:10:01,367
Speaker 3: Arrested and that is when America kind of pounced. They

218
00:10:01,367 --> 00:10:04,287
Speaker 3: had an extradition order. They charged him with conspiracy to

219
00:10:04,287 --> 00:10:06,887
Speaker 3: attempt to hack a computer in connection to the twenty

220
00:10:06,967 --> 00:10:11,687
Speaker 3: ten leaks and seventeen other charges, so they basically wanted

221
00:10:11,687 --> 00:10:12,527
Speaker 3: to put him in prison.

222
00:10:12,687 --> 00:10:15,167
Speaker 4: At this point, what's happening with Sweden? Because I just

223
00:10:15,167 --> 00:10:17,927
Speaker 4: feel like they pop up in news stories and I'm like, no,

224
00:10:19,647 --> 00:10:21,927
Speaker 4: is he not guilty or were they just dropped.

225
00:10:21,607 --> 00:10:25,127
Speaker 1: The dropped those charges have been dropped. And to understand,

226
00:10:25,207 --> 00:10:27,367
Speaker 1: because it was very confusing. There were the people that

227
00:10:27,447 --> 00:10:31,727
Speaker 1: were like free Julian Assange campaign, and then there were

228
00:10:31,727 --> 00:10:34,247
Speaker 1: people who were like, look, we're not a big fan,

229
00:10:34,927 --> 00:10:37,087
Speaker 1: we don't really think he's a journalist. Taking a whole

230
00:10:37,087 --> 00:10:38,967
Speaker 1: lot of stolen documents and throwing him on the New

231
00:10:38,967 --> 00:10:42,447
Speaker 1: Internet does not make you a journalist. And then I thought,

232
00:10:42,727 --> 00:10:45,207
Speaker 1: Barnaby Joyce, actually, I can't believe I'm going to quote

233
00:10:45,207 --> 00:10:48,807
Speaker 1: for Barnaby Joyce. Have a listen to what Barnaby Joyce explained,

234
00:10:48,847 --> 00:10:51,127
Speaker 1: because in the last couple of years a lot of

235
00:10:51,207 --> 00:10:55,287
Speaker 1: Australian politicians, including Kevin RD Barnaby Joyce, from all sides

236
00:10:55,327 --> 00:10:59,687
Speaker 1: of politics, have become involved in petitioning the US government

237
00:11:00,087 --> 00:11:03,047
Speaker 1: to free him. And this is why here's what Barnaby

238
00:11:03,127 --> 00:11:03,847
Speaker 1: Joyce explained.

239
00:11:04,167 --> 00:11:07,407
Speaker 6: It was not really an issue about mister Osange. If

240
00:11:07,407 --> 00:11:09,767
Speaker 6: you asked me, do I think what he did was

241
00:11:09,807 --> 00:11:13,087
Speaker 6: morally correct, No, it wasn't. But the issue for me

242
00:11:13,207 --> 00:11:17,127
Speaker 6: is extra territoriality. This was an Australian citizen. He was

243
00:11:17,167 --> 00:11:19,327
Speaker 6: not a citizen in the United States. He was not

244
00:11:19,407 --> 00:11:22,647
Speaker 6: in the United States when this felony is what they said,

245
00:11:22,967 --> 00:11:25,727
Speaker 6: was created. He did not steal the information. That was

246
00:11:25,767 --> 00:11:28,127
Speaker 6: then Bradley Manning who is now Chelsea Manning. He was

247
00:11:28,167 --> 00:11:30,727
Speaker 6: not the first person to publish this information. That was

248
00:11:30,727 --> 00:11:33,767
Speaker 6: a gentleman. I believe the name of Doyle from Cryptomania.

249
00:11:33,167 --> 00:11:34,287
Speaker 1: Who first published it.

250
00:11:34,807 --> 00:11:38,047
Speaker 6: And if the dissemination of this information is a crime.

251
00:11:38,447 --> 00:11:41,207
Speaker 6: Then every person where I now stand in the Parliament

252
00:11:41,207 --> 00:11:43,247
Speaker 6: of Australia's author state is on their way to the

253
00:11:43,327 --> 00:11:45,567
Speaker 6: United States of America because you all printed it.

254
00:11:45,767 --> 00:11:49,287
Speaker 1: So what Barnaby Joyce was saying, if I'm correct, is

255
00:11:49,327 --> 00:11:55,087
Speaker 1: that it's the fact that America shouldn't have been able

256
00:11:55,247 --> 00:11:59,367
Speaker 1: to extradite him and imprison him because.

257
00:11:59,167 --> 00:12:01,327
Speaker 3: He didn't make the leaks. He just reported them.

258
00:12:02,087 --> 00:12:04,487
Speaker 1: Well, he just shared them, he just distributed them. I

259
00:12:04,527 --> 00:12:07,207
Speaker 1: wouldn't say he reported them because taking a whole lot

260
00:12:07,247 --> 00:12:10,087
Speaker 1: of information and throwing it out there is not reporting

261
00:12:10,327 --> 00:12:12,767
Speaker 1: and it's not journalism. There's got to be a degree

262
00:12:12,767 --> 00:12:15,807
Speaker 1: of checking. And I don't know, like some people say

263
00:12:16,847 --> 00:12:19,447
Speaker 1: governments have to be able to have secrets, other people

264
00:12:19,487 --> 00:12:22,967
Speaker 1: say we should know all the information that's available in

265
00:12:22,967 --> 00:12:23,407
Speaker 1: the world.

266
00:12:23,767 --> 00:12:26,367
Speaker 4: Well, probably sits somewhere in between. But I think it's

267
00:12:26,407 --> 00:12:30,007
Speaker 4: important to reflect on some of the things that Julian Nossange.

268
00:12:30,167 --> 00:12:33,127
Speaker 4: It did leak and he revealed a lot of I mean,

269
00:12:33,807 --> 00:12:36,087
Speaker 4: things that were happening that we ought to have known about.

270
00:12:36,167 --> 00:12:39,207
Speaker 4: There was a war in Iraq where you know, tens

271
00:12:39,207 --> 00:12:41,567
Speaker 4: of thousands of civilians were being killed. He had video

272
00:12:41,607 --> 00:12:45,007
Speaker 4: footage of that it was horrific, and I think that

273
00:12:45,007 --> 00:12:48,207
Speaker 4: that led to further scrutiny on what was happening. It

274
00:12:48,327 --> 00:12:52,807
Speaker 4: kind of changed geopolitical relations. If it weren't for Julian Assange,

275
00:12:52,847 --> 00:12:55,087
Speaker 4: the story that we would tell would be very different.

276
00:12:55,127 --> 00:12:58,327
Speaker 4: And I do think probably that history will look back

277
00:12:58,367 --> 00:13:02,167
Speaker 4: on Julian Assange as a really important figure who shone

278
00:13:02,167 --> 00:13:07,567
Speaker 4: a spotlight on some you know, dark times in humanity.

279
00:13:07,767 --> 00:13:10,287
Speaker 3: I think maybe he just got a bit carried away.

280
00:13:10,607 --> 00:13:14,487
Speaker 1: He seems fairly unlikable. But I mean, I'm terrified to

281
00:13:14,487 --> 00:13:16,967
Speaker 1: say anything about Julian Nossange and Wiki lex that's negative

282
00:13:16,967 --> 00:13:20,047
Speaker 1: because I remember back in twenty twelve, when Muma Maya was,

283
00:13:20,607 --> 00:13:24,967
Speaker 1: you know, in its infancy, we published a piece around

284
00:13:24,967 --> 00:13:27,367
Speaker 1: this time about Julian Assange that was very negative. I

285
00:13:27,367 --> 00:13:29,127
Speaker 1: think it was around it was an opinion piece. It

286
00:13:29,127 --> 00:13:32,367
Speaker 1: was around the sexual assault charges from Sweden, and I

287
00:13:32,407 --> 00:13:34,047
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of memories of it, and I

288
00:13:34,087 --> 00:13:36,367
Speaker 1: can't go back and check it because soon after it

289
00:13:36,407 --> 00:13:39,927
Speaker 1: was published, the website was hacked and that story was

290
00:13:39,967 --> 00:13:44,767
Speaker 1: removed and deleted from all our servers. There was no

291
00:13:44,807 --> 00:13:46,047
Speaker 1: trace of it left on the internet.

292
00:13:46,087 --> 00:13:47,687
Speaker 3: They touch anything else, nothing else.

293
00:13:47,967 --> 00:13:51,087
Speaker 4: It's the thing about hackers that is weird, and it's

294
00:13:51,127 --> 00:13:53,927
Speaker 4: not like it was necessarily you know, Julia Sanje sitting

295
00:13:53,967 --> 00:13:56,247
Speaker 4: at his computer. It's like a community of hackers who

296
00:13:56,287 --> 00:13:58,047
Speaker 4: have control over the Internet and they scare me.

297
00:13:58,087 --> 00:14:00,567
Speaker 1: And wikiles is pretty powerful, or it was pretty powerful.

298
00:14:00,607 --> 00:14:03,367
Speaker 1: It's now been a long time, so I'm not sure.

299
00:14:03,407 --> 00:14:05,287
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who've also come and gone

300
00:14:05,287 --> 00:14:08,007
Speaker 1: from his camp, a lot of people who believed in

301
00:14:08,047 --> 00:14:11,607
Speaker 1: the principle of what he did but then perhaps became

302
00:14:11,607 --> 00:14:14,807
Speaker 1: a bit disillusioned when they actually met him, and a.

303
00:14:14,727 --> 00:14:17,687
Speaker 4: Lot of people as well who were very critical at

304
00:14:17,687 --> 00:14:20,207
Speaker 4: the beginning then looked at the time that he has

305
00:14:20,207 --> 00:14:22,087
Speaker 4: spent there. This is what this is like. It's so

306
00:14:22,407 --> 00:14:25,327
Speaker 4: impossible to form an opinion because there are people I

307
00:14:25,367 --> 00:14:28,447
Speaker 4: look at where I go your opinion I value, okay,

308
00:14:28,607 --> 00:14:31,287
Speaker 4: Julian no sage hero, and then I think your opinion

309
00:14:31,327 --> 00:14:33,287
Speaker 4: I have never agreed with in my whole life. And

310
00:14:33,327 --> 00:14:36,047
Speaker 4: you're calling him a hero, especially in the US, like

311
00:14:36,327 --> 00:14:38,927
Speaker 4: because there's this thing about press freedom, but then there's

312
00:14:38,927 --> 00:14:41,807
Speaker 4: also this thing about like never mess with our military.

313
00:14:41,967 --> 00:14:45,567
Speaker 4: There's just really weird conflicts going on. But this is

314
00:14:46,047 --> 00:14:48,407
Speaker 4: Joe Biden had something to do with it, is that right?

315
00:14:48,887 --> 00:14:51,287
Speaker 1: Yeah? Ultimately it was Joe Biden who said, we will

316
00:14:51,327 --> 00:14:53,207
Speaker 1: do a plea deal. So the plea deal was he

317
00:14:53,287 --> 00:14:58,247
Speaker 1: had to plead guilty to espionage, but he would then

318
00:14:58,807 --> 00:15:03,327
Speaker 1: be not pardoned, but he would the time he's already served.

319
00:15:03,367 --> 00:15:05,447
Speaker 1: They would go, okay, will you served your time, which

320
00:15:05,487 --> 00:15:08,087
Speaker 1: is probably as much as, if not more than, for example,

321
00:15:08,167 --> 00:15:11,767
Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning did therefore, we will allow you to go home. Now,

322
00:15:11,807 --> 00:15:13,807
Speaker 1: does he then have to come home and serve some

323
00:15:13,887 --> 00:15:16,127
Speaker 1: time in Australia? What happens when he lands tonight?

324
00:15:16,327 --> 00:15:19,047
Speaker 3: He's a free man, a proper freeman, a free man.

325
00:15:19,167 --> 00:15:22,767
Speaker 3: So as we kind of record, he is basically touching

326
00:15:22,807 --> 00:15:25,287
Speaker 3: down in Canberra. So he's a free man tonight. He's

327
00:15:25,327 --> 00:15:29,327
Speaker 3: meeting his two children for the first time, not as

328
00:15:29,367 --> 00:15:32,487
Speaker 3: an incarcerated or soon to be extradited person.

329
00:15:32,647 --> 00:15:35,567
Speaker 1: Because he's been in solitary confinement in a maximum security

330
00:15:35,647 --> 00:15:38,807
Speaker 1: for many facility for five years and seven years in

331
00:15:38,847 --> 00:15:40,127
Speaker 1: the embassy before that.

332
00:15:40,287 --> 00:15:43,607
Speaker 4: It's nineteen hundred days in confinement and he a lot

333
00:15:43,607 --> 00:15:45,367
Speaker 4: of it was like twenty three hours a day, just

334
00:15:45,607 --> 00:15:47,687
Speaker 4: you know, not seeing someone his.

335
00:15:47,687 --> 00:15:51,327
Speaker 3: Wife and two kids, arrived in Australia a few days ago.

336
00:15:51,367 --> 00:15:53,087
Speaker 3: They're going to be waiting for him at the airport

337
00:15:53,327 --> 00:15:54,847
Speaker 3: and apparently they're going to go sightseeing.

338
00:15:56,367 --> 00:16:00,007
Speaker 4: He is going to need, like I mean, apparently his

339
00:16:00,087 --> 00:16:02,327
Speaker 4: health isn't great and so that's probably going to be

340
00:16:02,367 --> 00:16:05,127
Speaker 4: the number one priority. But it reveals a lot of

341
00:16:05,767 --> 00:16:08,727
Speaker 4: things that a lot of interesting philosophical arguments about free

342
00:16:08,727 --> 00:16:11,407
Speaker 4: speech and spionage. The thing I was interested to learn

343
00:16:11,567 --> 00:16:16,327
Speaker 4: was that the Espionage Act allows no public interest defense.

344
00:16:16,887 --> 00:16:19,727
Speaker 4: So it's like all espionage is treated equally. Whereas if

345
00:16:19,767 --> 00:16:22,047
Speaker 4: it really is in the public interest and if something

346
00:16:22,087 --> 00:16:25,247
Speaker 4: really bad was happening and it did need a whistleblower

347
00:16:25,407 --> 00:16:27,607
Speaker 4: to go, people need to know about this.

348
00:16:27,887 --> 00:16:31,127
Speaker 1: But isn't the definition of public interest subjective? So some

349
00:16:31,167 --> 00:16:33,687
Speaker 1: people might say, well, we really needed to know about

350
00:16:33,727 --> 00:16:36,807
Speaker 1: that because these bad things were happening, And then that

351
00:16:36,927 --> 00:16:39,967
Speaker 1: same piece of information that showed us that might also

352
00:16:40,167 --> 00:16:45,367
Speaker 1: have exposed people who were informants and secrets and diplomatic

353
00:16:45,527 --> 00:16:49,567
Speaker 1: might cause diplomatic problems and change the geopolitical situation. I mean,

354
00:16:49,607 --> 00:16:52,447
Speaker 1: governments and diplomats do need to be able to have

355
00:16:52,527 --> 00:16:55,887
Speaker 1: confidential conversations. You would think not when.

356
00:16:55,687 --> 00:16:56,527
Speaker 3: It comes to abuse.

357
00:16:57,207 --> 00:17:00,727
Speaker 1: No, I don't mean about that, of course, and course

358
00:17:00,887 --> 00:17:03,447
Speaker 1: of course, but I think like in the process, and

359
00:17:03,487 --> 00:17:06,687
Speaker 1: this is why the difference of public interest and journalism

360
00:17:06,767 --> 00:17:08,647
Speaker 1: and just taking a whole lot of stolen documents and

361
00:17:08,687 --> 00:17:12,767
Speaker 1: dumping them unfiltered onto the internet. What is the moral

362
00:17:12,807 --> 00:17:16,447
Speaker 1: and ethical responsibility of doing that? And then I also

363
00:17:16,487 --> 00:17:19,287
Speaker 1: see the argument of well, if you get to decide,

364
00:17:19,487 --> 00:17:21,447
Speaker 1: who gets to decide what we need to see and

365
00:17:21,487 --> 00:17:24,167
Speaker 1: what we don't. So if you're looking for a really

366
00:17:24,167 --> 00:17:26,407
Speaker 1: simplistic is he a good guy? Is he a bad guy?

367
00:17:26,967 --> 00:17:28,247
Speaker 1: Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing

368
00:17:28,287 --> 00:17:31,767
Speaker 1: that he's free? Listen to Clemophy, the host of The Quickie.

369
00:17:31,927 --> 00:17:34,807
Speaker 1: She interviewed today Kim Statton, who is the writer and

370
00:17:34,847 --> 00:17:38,567
Speaker 1: director of the Trustful Julian Assange documentary and Here's a

371
00:17:38,567 --> 00:17:41,927
Speaker 1: little grab to leave you with. Claire asked him what

372
00:17:41,967 --> 00:17:45,327
Speaker 1: would happen to Assange now that he's back in Australia.

373
00:17:45,487 --> 00:17:48,287
Speaker 7: Do you think we'll see him become the man who

374
00:17:48,367 --> 00:17:52,407
Speaker 7: addressed the world from the balcony of the Ecuadorian embassy again?

375
00:17:52,647 --> 00:17:54,247
Speaker 7: Or is that man gone?

376
00:17:54,287 --> 00:17:54,447
Speaker 5: Now?

377
00:17:54,487 --> 00:17:58,167
Speaker 7: Are we looking at an assigned who might fade away

378
00:17:58,447 --> 00:18:01,007
Speaker 7: into obscurity from this point.

379
00:18:01,207 --> 00:18:04,247
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think his supporters

380
00:18:04,287 --> 00:18:07,327
Speaker 5: really hope that he will get back into action, and

381
00:18:07,647 --> 00:18:11,367
Speaker 5: admirers of his work supporters at Wiki Leaks would hope

382
00:18:11,367 --> 00:18:14,327
Speaker 5: that that's possible for him. But I think we can

383
00:18:14,367 --> 00:18:18,407
Speaker 5: also have compassion and understand that it's his decision of

384
00:18:18,527 --> 00:18:20,607
Speaker 5: whether he wants to turn to work and how soon

385
00:18:20,647 --> 00:18:23,287
Speaker 5: he will turn to work. If he decides to do that,

386
00:18:23,927 --> 00:18:27,127
Speaker 5: I would imagine as soon as he touches down in Australia,

387
00:18:27,367 --> 00:18:30,487
Speaker 5: he'll be going to a hospital because he'll need a

388
00:18:30,487 --> 00:18:35,247
Speaker 5: lot of treatment PTSD and various health conditions. I would

389
00:18:35,287 --> 00:18:38,087
Speaker 5: guess that it would take a long time, a year,

390
00:18:38,287 --> 00:18:41,607
Speaker 5: maybe longer to recover and even think about going back

391
00:18:41,607 --> 00:18:42,007
Speaker 5: to work.

392
00:18:45,007 --> 00:18:48,967
Speaker 2: This month, Momma Mia turned seventeen. We know birthdays aren't

393
00:18:49,007 --> 00:18:52,567
Speaker 2: all that exciting when they're not well. Your birthday, there

394
00:18:52,607 --> 00:18:55,087
Speaker 2: aren't enough presents, So we want to take this as

395
00:18:55,127 --> 00:18:57,367
Speaker 2: a chance to give you a treat and say thank

396
00:18:57,407 --> 00:18:59,087
Speaker 2: you for being on the ride with us.

397
00:18:59,247 --> 00:19:01,367
Speaker 1: Right now, you can get twenty dollars off a yearly

398
00:19:01,447 --> 00:19:04,967
Speaker 1: Mumma me a subscription with the code out loud Birthday.

399
00:19:05,207 --> 00:19:07,367
Speaker 2: The offer is valid till the end of June, and

400
00:19:07,407 --> 00:19:10,007
Speaker 2: you will find all the details how to do that

401
00:19:10,087 --> 00:19:12,847
Speaker 2: in the show notes Enjoy My Friends.

402
00:19:16,727 --> 00:19:18,967
Speaker 4: According to an article in the Cut, there is an

403
00:19:19,047 --> 00:19:23,647
Speaker 4: existential divide between rememberers and forgetters, and a debate about

404
00:19:23,647 --> 00:19:27,127
Speaker 4: which type of person is better off. So the science

405
00:19:27,127 --> 00:19:29,767
Speaker 4: says that there are actually two extremes. On one side,

406
00:19:29,807 --> 00:19:34,727
Speaker 4: you've got SDAM, and that stands for people with severely

407
00:19:34,887 --> 00:19:39,487
Speaker 4: deficient autobiographical memory. Then you've got on the polar opposite

408
00:19:39,607 --> 00:19:46,167
Speaker 4: end HSAM. They're highly superior autobiographical memory people. Now this

409
00:19:46,287 --> 00:19:49,727
Speaker 4: isn't about dementia, this isn't about photographic memory. This is

410
00:19:49,807 --> 00:19:57,527
Speaker 4: just about how your memories, personal experiences imprint themselves into

411
00:19:57,567 --> 00:19:58,047
Speaker 4: your brain.

412
00:19:58,207 --> 00:19:58,407
Speaker 3: Right.

413
00:19:58,527 --> 00:20:01,527
Speaker 1: Some people I think about that inside Out the first

414
00:20:01,927 --> 00:20:05,287
Speaker 1: movie inside Out. Remember there's that filing system and they go,

415
00:20:05,367 --> 00:20:07,607
Speaker 1: which is like the memory, and they go looking through

416
00:20:07,647 --> 00:20:10,847
Speaker 1: the filing system. So I often think about my brain

417
00:20:10,927 --> 00:20:13,407
Speaker 1: and my memory like an animated movie.

418
00:20:14,607 --> 00:20:19,767
Speaker 4: So for the highly superior autobiographical memory people, they don't

419
00:20:19,847 --> 00:20:22,007
Speaker 4: forget much of anything, and if you give them a

420
00:20:22,127 --> 00:20:24,407
Speaker 4: date or a year in their conscious lives, they can

421
00:20:24,447 --> 00:20:28,967
Speaker 4: pretty much remember what was happening. Right. Interestingly, People with

422
00:20:29,327 --> 00:20:33,047
Speaker 4: this type of memory tend to be more miserable. They

423
00:20:33,047 --> 00:20:38,007
Speaker 4: hold onto things, they ruminate. Those with deficient autobiographical memories

424
00:20:38,007 --> 00:20:40,967
Speaker 4: are happier. Me bad things don't stick to them, and

425
00:20:41,007 --> 00:20:45,687
Speaker 4: they're not emotionally pulled into the past. No, rememberers and

426
00:20:45,767 --> 00:20:49,767
Speaker 4: forgetters tend to team up. They like each other. They

427
00:20:49,847 --> 00:20:52,767
Speaker 4: like each other a lot. Rememberers are often better in

428
00:20:52,887 --> 00:20:55,687
Speaker 4: arguments because they have a lot of evidence to pull from.

429
00:20:56,127 --> 00:20:56,887
Speaker 3: I had in an.

430
00:20:56,887 --> 00:20:59,447
Speaker 1: Argument when someone goes and you go, you always did it.

431
00:20:59,527 --> 00:21:02,167
Speaker 1: When was the last time I did that? I don't remember.

432
00:21:02,447 --> 00:21:05,047
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll be having an argument with you now. And

433
00:21:05,087 --> 00:21:08,127
Speaker 4: I can often say no, we tried that three years

434
00:21:08,167 --> 00:21:10,367
Speaker 4: ago and it didn't and you be like, really, it

435
00:21:10,367 --> 00:21:12,847
Speaker 4: doesn't actually matter if it happened. Yeah, Pitch can't remember anything.

436
00:21:13,327 --> 00:21:15,807
Speaker 1: She says it with confidence, and I'm like, okay, well,

437
00:21:15,847 --> 00:21:18,167
Speaker 1: I'm a forgetter, so I can't be trusted.

438
00:21:18,167 --> 00:21:20,287
Speaker 3: It's I can performance reviews where you have to remember

439
00:21:20,327 --> 00:21:22,327
Speaker 3: what happened in the last twelve months. I'm blank. I've

440
00:21:22,327 --> 00:21:24,007
Speaker 3: got no idea I remember yesterday.

441
00:21:24,567 --> 00:21:27,007
Speaker 4: Well, I am obsessed with this story because I'm a

442
00:21:27,047 --> 00:21:30,927
Speaker 4: textbook rememberer, and I remember on behalf of other people.

443
00:21:30,967 --> 00:21:33,327
Speaker 4: And I see it as an absolute curse because I

444
00:21:33,367 --> 00:21:36,807
Speaker 4: have to keep grudges for people because I can't have

445
00:21:36,967 --> 00:21:41,127
Speaker 4: you making missteps when I've got to go this person

446
00:21:41,207 --> 00:21:44,847
Speaker 4: wronged us. Yep, I'm very very good at that. I

447
00:21:44,927 --> 00:21:48,847
Speaker 4: have like it's not so much for like information, but

448
00:21:49,007 --> 00:21:53,567
Speaker 4: anything with any emotional link. It is there. And I'm

449
00:21:53,687 --> 00:21:58,127
Speaker 4: also an incredibly nostalgic person. And I think I'm nostalgic

450
00:21:58,567 --> 00:22:01,287
Speaker 4: because of how vividly I remember the past, like from

451
00:22:01,767 --> 00:22:05,087
Speaker 4: tastes to smells to even when I was away recently.

452
00:22:05,127 --> 00:22:07,247
Speaker 4: It's like I can remember being nineteen and going to

453
00:22:07,287 --> 00:22:09,807
Speaker 4: Europe for the first time, and like I can it's

454
00:22:09,887 --> 00:22:12,007
Speaker 4: so clear to me. So I can get very stuck

455
00:22:12,047 --> 00:22:15,407
Speaker 4: in the past and feel the passage of time. I

456
00:22:15,407 --> 00:22:17,727
Speaker 4: think it's the saddest thing in the world. Like I'm

457
00:22:17,727 --> 00:22:19,727
Speaker 4: stuck in the past. What I want to know is,

458
00:22:20,407 --> 00:22:23,887
Speaker 4: if you're a forgetter, what are you thinking about ever?

459
00:22:25,687 --> 00:22:28,207
Speaker 1: I'm anxious for the future. I'm anxious about things that

460
00:22:28,247 --> 00:22:31,047
Speaker 1: haven't happened yet. I don't remember the past. I'm not

461
00:22:31,087 --> 00:22:34,207
Speaker 1: a It's not that I'm not a ruminator, because I

462
00:22:34,287 --> 00:22:39,127
Speaker 1: am a ruminator, Like I can obsess about things, but

463
00:22:39,247 --> 00:22:42,887
Speaker 1: I'm a terrible like I have the memory of a goldfish.

464
00:22:42,927 --> 00:22:45,367
Speaker 4: Does that worry you? It used to.

465
00:22:46,087 --> 00:22:48,887
Speaker 1: When I was diagnosed with ADHD, I discovered that that's

466
00:22:49,567 --> 00:22:53,527
Speaker 1: one of the symptoms, being very like forgetting things because

467
00:22:53,567 --> 00:22:56,767
Speaker 1: you just always jumping, jumping, jumping, and I'm jumping forward.

468
00:22:57,327 --> 00:22:58,807
Speaker 1: I don't jump back.

469
00:22:59,127 --> 00:23:02,167
Speaker 4: Because I have always I am married to a forgetter,

470
00:23:02,727 --> 00:23:06,647
Speaker 4: and I have found myself deeply offended by forgetters because

471
00:23:06,687 --> 00:23:10,447
Speaker 4: I think you just don't care. So I'll remember every

472
00:23:10,447 --> 00:23:14,047
Speaker 4: little detail about you know, Luca and what he likes

473
00:23:14,047 --> 00:23:16,567
Speaker 4: and this story he told me and whatever, and then

474
00:23:16,607 --> 00:23:20,807
Speaker 4: it'll get to my birthday or something about primary school

475
00:23:20,887 --> 00:23:23,887
Speaker 4: or some story, and Luca's like, I think he doesn't

476
00:23:24,007 --> 00:23:27,247
Speaker 4: care enough to remember, yes, and it's important. This is

477
00:23:27,287 --> 00:23:29,447
Speaker 4: what I loved about this article was that it's not

478
00:23:29,607 --> 00:23:32,127
Speaker 4: his fault. The getters can't help her.

479
00:23:32,207 --> 00:23:36,407
Speaker 1: What's interesting about this also is that you would assume,

480
00:23:36,887 --> 00:23:41,967
Speaker 1: knowing you and your husband, for example, he's incredibly meticulously

481
00:23:42,087 --> 00:23:48,567
Speaker 1: organized and efficient and productive, you are woefully disorganized. So

482
00:23:48,607 --> 00:23:50,847
Speaker 1: it doesn't correspond with what you would think, like you

483
00:23:50,847 --> 00:23:53,887
Speaker 1: would think that the organized people will be the remembers,

484
00:23:53,927 --> 00:23:55,647
Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily and.

485
00:23:55,607 --> 00:23:59,207
Speaker 4: I think remembering is efficient. Gemma, what are you? Where

486
00:23:59,247 --> 00:23:59,687
Speaker 4: do you land?

487
00:23:59,727 --> 00:24:03,287
Speaker 3: I am Luca. I am Luca because I am very

488
00:24:03,367 --> 00:24:05,727
Speaker 3: organized and I can remember. I know in my head

489
00:24:05,767 --> 00:24:07,727
Speaker 3: exactly what I've got planned for the week in terms

490
00:24:07,767 --> 00:24:08,967
Speaker 3: of appointments, times.

491
00:24:08,727 --> 00:24:10,247
Speaker 4: Where when, Oh I got none of that.

492
00:24:10,647 --> 00:24:13,207
Speaker 3: I have no memory of a few years ago, and

493
00:24:13,247 --> 00:24:15,847
Speaker 3: I was trying to think of an example. The thing

494
00:24:15,847 --> 00:24:18,087
Speaker 3: that scares me the most about it is the idea

495
00:24:18,167 --> 00:24:21,247
Speaker 3: of me forgetting my loved ones when they pass. I

496
00:24:21,287 --> 00:24:22,607
Speaker 3: think about this all the time.

497
00:24:22,887 --> 00:24:23,767
Speaker 1: Because of videos.

498
00:24:24,367 --> 00:24:27,167
Speaker 3: Well that's why I take lots of photos and videos.

499
00:24:27,407 --> 00:24:31,767
Speaker 3: Because I lost my oma, my grandma a few years ago.

500
00:24:31,847 --> 00:24:34,007
Speaker 3: I can't even tell you what year. I don't know

501
00:24:34,047 --> 00:24:36,647
Speaker 3: what year it was, even though she's one of my favorites.

502
00:24:36,767 --> 00:24:37,927
Speaker 1: Why is that important?

503
00:24:38,287 --> 00:24:40,607
Speaker 3: Because I can't even remember if it was two years ago, No,

504
00:24:40,767 --> 00:24:42,287
Speaker 3: five years ago, seven years ago?

505
00:24:42,367 --> 00:24:45,327
Speaker 1: But isn't it her? See, that's a different thing so time.

506
00:24:45,527 --> 00:24:47,927
Speaker 1: I've also got time blindness, which is another symptom, which

507
00:24:47,967 --> 00:24:52,247
Speaker 1: is I find time very slippery. I don't know if

508
00:24:52,247 --> 00:24:54,847
Speaker 1: something happened six months or six years ago. I can't

509
00:24:54,927 --> 00:24:56,487
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's going to take me ten

510
00:24:56,487 --> 00:24:59,967
Speaker 1: minutes to do something or four hours. The whole construct

511
00:25:00,047 --> 00:25:03,687
Speaker 1: of time is kind of impossible for me to get

512
00:25:03,687 --> 00:25:06,447
Speaker 1: my head around. But I want to ask about your omer.

513
00:25:06,847 --> 00:25:07,887
Speaker 1: Do you remember her?

514
00:25:08,447 --> 00:25:12,967
Speaker 3: I remember like her smell, her hair spray, the way

515
00:25:13,007 --> 00:25:15,847
Speaker 3: she used to dance, But I don't remember our conversations.

516
00:25:16,607 --> 00:25:19,367
Speaker 3: I don't remember those kinds of details. I don't remember.

517
00:25:20,247 --> 00:25:22,447
Speaker 3: My best friend is a rememberer.

518
00:25:22,727 --> 00:25:23,727
Speaker 1: Like textbook.

519
00:25:23,927 --> 00:25:25,767
Speaker 3: I can say to her, do you remember that twenty

520
00:25:25,847 --> 00:25:28,727
Speaker 3: fifteen trip we did to Mexico? What did we eat

521
00:25:28,727 --> 00:25:30,287
Speaker 3: on the second day when we were in Tuluma? And

522
00:25:30,327 --> 00:25:32,687
Speaker 3: she'll be able to tell me the drink, the food,

523
00:25:33,007 --> 00:25:35,167
Speaker 3: what we did after, what she was wearing, what I

524
00:25:35,287 --> 00:25:37,247
Speaker 3: was wearing, what temperature it was, And I look at

525
00:25:37,247 --> 00:25:39,927
Speaker 3: her like she's crazy. I would have not a clue,

526
00:25:40,087 --> 00:25:42,007
Speaker 3: even though that was one of the happiest times of

527
00:25:42,047 --> 00:25:42,687
Speaker 3: my life.

528
00:25:43,007 --> 00:25:46,767
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's better for you, and it's survival

529
00:25:46,887 --> 00:25:50,727
Speaker 4: and evolution that you would because even with grief, right,

530
00:25:50,767 --> 00:25:52,767
Speaker 4: and this came up in the article that they said

531
00:25:52,887 --> 00:25:55,767
Speaker 4: that's a tension between people who were and in fact

532
00:25:55,967 --> 00:25:59,087
Speaker 4: forget as love rememberers when it comes to grief because

533
00:25:59,087 --> 00:26:01,607
Speaker 4: they go, can you remind me of what we did?

534
00:26:01,807 --> 00:26:04,327
Speaker 4: Because a rememberer will be able to say, well, what

535
00:26:04,367 --> 00:26:08,447
Speaker 4: we did chat about or whatever was blah blah blah.

536
00:26:08,327 --> 00:26:10,607
Speaker 3: But I'm sad I can't give that memory.

537
00:26:10,727 --> 00:26:11,887
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm said.

538
00:26:11,967 --> 00:26:15,887
Speaker 3: I can't remember exact conversations with my oma, I can

539
00:26:15,967 --> 00:26:17,247
Speaker 3: just remember her essence.

540
00:26:17,887 --> 00:26:21,687
Speaker 4: I have a theory that the reason I'm a rememberer

541
00:26:21,967 --> 00:26:25,887
Speaker 4: is because of revision. And I say that because in

542
00:26:26,727 --> 00:26:29,927
Speaker 4: the technicality of how memory works is that the thing happens,

543
00:26:30,327 --> 00:26:34,087
Speaker 4: and often it's not imprinted until it is revised. That's

544
00:26:34,127 --> 00:26:38,647
Speaker 4: like how homework works. As a twin, most of my

545
00:26:38,807 --> 00:26:42,927
Speaker 4: experiences are recounted within twenty four hours to someone else,

546
00:26:43,967 --> 00:26:47,207
Speaker 4: and I think that that means that I'm living at

547
00:26:47,487 --> 00:26:51,007
Speaker 4: twice at least because I'm a talker. The people in

548
00:26:51,007 --> 00:26:54,687
Speaker 4: my life as well, who aren't talkers, they're not revising

549
00:26:54,727 --> 00:26:57,727
Speaker 4: their own memories, but because I'm I wonder if people

550
00:26:57,727 --> 00:27:00,527
Speaker 4: who kick journals, for example, have better memories because they've

551
00:27:00,567 --> 00:27:02,247
Speaker 4: revised the experience, right.

552
00:27:02,167 --> 00:27:04,727
Speaker 1: So, and then the act in the act of remembering.

553
00:27:05,007 --> 00:27:08,327
Speaker 1: I've once read that if you imagine it's like going

554
00:27:08,367 --> 00:27:10,807
Speaker 1: and pulling out a fire and looking at it and

555
00:27:10,847 --> 00:27:13,807
Speaker 1: then putting it back. And each time you pull out

556
00:27:13,847 --> 00:27:16,527
Speaker 1: the file and remember it, in the act of remembering,

557
00:27:16,567 --> 00:27:18,847
Speaker 1: you change it a little bit and then you put

558
00:27:18,887 --> 00:27:19,287
Speaker 1: it back.

559
00:27:19,527 --> 00:27:22,967
Speaker 4: It's why when you think of memories from your childhood,

560
00:27:22,967 --> 00:27:26,927
Speaker 4: they'll weirdly correspond with an exact photo. Yes, you're remembering

561
00:27:26,927 --> 00:27:29,527
Speaker 4: the photo. You're not remembering, you're then attaching a memory

562
00:27:29,567 --> 00:27:29,887
Speaker 4: to it.

563
00:27:29,847 --> 00:27:32,647
Speaker 1: See that you have a sensory memory, Jim, like you

564
00:27:32,687 --> 00:27:36,047
Speaker 1: remember her smell, the way she dances. So I think

565
00:27:36,127 --> 00:27:39,327
Speaker 1: that perhaps there are different types of memory, like visual memory.

566
00:27:39,527 --> 00:27:42,927
Speaker 1: I also think that things that have a strong emotion

567
00:27:43,047 --> 00:27:46,367
Speaker 1: attached to it, you're more likely to remember. So for me,

568
00:27:46,567 --> 00:27:51,167
Speaker 1: anything around shame I will remember in detail. Are the

569
00:27:51,207 --> 00:27:54,007
Speaker 1: things I can let go very very fast. So that's

570
00:27:54,007 --> 00:27:57,487
Speaker 1: the good thing about being a forgetter. You don't get stuck.

571
00:27:58,167 --> 00:28:00,887
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, whereas you do as a remember and there's

572
00:28:00,927 --> 00:28:04,087
Speaker 4: such useless information that you walk around for the rest

573
00:28:04,127 --> 00:28:05,687
Speaker 4: of your life. So I remember it was a few

574
00:28:05,727 --> 00:28:08,927
Speaker 4: years after school and I was saying something to a

575
00:28:08,927 --> 00:28:10,847
Speaker 4: friend and I brought up someone from school and she

576
00:28:10,927 --> 00:28:13,487
Speaker 4: was like, nah, And I said, you know, she's friends

577
00:28:13,487 --> 00:28:17,367
Speaker 4: with blah, nah, just it had erased from her memory,

578
00:28:17,407 --> 00:28:20,487
Speaker 4: and I remember thinking, I remember feeling judgmental and going oh,

579
00:28:20,927 --> 00:28:23,727
Speaker 4: or actually thinking she was pretending to have forgotten it

580
00:28:23,767 --> 00:28:25,487
Speaker 4: as a way of being like, I don't think about

581
00:28:25,487 --> 00:28:29,047
Speaker 4: that anymore. I reckon I could name the one hundred

582
00:28:29,047 --> 00:28:30,407
Speaker 4: and twenty people I went to school with who are

583
00:28:30,447 --> 00:28:31,967
Speaker 4: in my year either, like goodness.

584
00:28:32,047 --> 00:28:33,967
Speaker 3: But that's why it's weird for me, because I think

585
00:28:34,007 --> 00:28:36,207
Speaker 3: I could name everyone in my high school year, but

586
00:28:36,287 --> 00:28:39,647
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you details like what was in my

587
00:28:39,807 --> 00:28:44,887
Speaker 3: HC like I can't, Like I have a very patchy memory, which.

588
00:28:44,647 --> 00:28:47,607
Speaker 4: I think everyone like. I think the patchiness is normal

589
00:28:48,127 --> 00:28:51,527
Speaker 4: and it's about recall because everyone's had the experience that

590
00:28:51,567 --> 00:28:52,127
Speaker 4: you also have.

591
00:28:52,047 --> 00:28:55,807
Speaker 1: To clear out your hot drive, Like I consume so

592
00:28:56,047 --> 00:29:00,687
Speaker 1: much information on a daily basis, there isn't enough room,

593
00:29:00,727 --> 00:29:02,247
Speaker 1: so things have got to be cleared out.

594
00:29:02,287 --> 00:29:02,447
Speaker 5: Now.

595
00:29:02,447 --> 00:29:04,807
Speaker 1: It's unfortunate that the things that are cleared out are

596
00:29:04,807 --> 00:29:09,407
Speaker 1: like my children's mobile phone numbers, that's a shame, and

597
00:29:10,007 --> 00:29:13,487
Speaker 1: what year Muma mia was started. But I also just

598
00:29:13,527 --> 00:29:17,687
Speaker 1: don't care. Yeah, like things that memories that I'm That's

599
00:29:17,687 --> 00:29:19,847
Speaker 1: what I mean about. I've got a very efficient filing system,

600
00:29:20,287 --> 00:29:23,287
Speaker 1: like I'm not interested in the past. Everyone's like, ohmm,

601
00:29:23,287 --> 00:29:25,447
Speaker 1: and Mia turned seventeen. I'm like, I don't care. I

602
00:29:25,487 --> 00:29:26,687
Speaker 1: care about what we're doing.

603
00:29:26,447 --> 00:29:28,607
Speaker 4: Next year and time today.

604
00:29:28,687 --> 00:29:29,847
Speaker 3: But that's why you're a leader.

605
00:29:30,287 --> 00:29:35,407
Speaker 4: Yeah things positively, You'll be like we've been doing out

606
00:29:35,407 --> 00:29:39,087
Speaker 4: loud for eighty five years, and I'm like, that's not true,

607
00:29:39,127 --> 00:29:40,007
Speaker 4: but you're not a liar.

608
00:29:40,367 --> 00:29:43,527
Speaker 1: It just feels like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

609
00:29:43,567 --> 00:29:43,967
Speaker 1: that's true.

610
00:29:44,047 --> 00:29:46,247
Speaker 3: See. I actually didn't even realize I was doing this

611
00:29:46,367 --> 00:29:50,207
Speaker 3: until we talked about this topic. But I have been

612
00:29:50,247 --> 00:29:56,047
Speaker 3: trying to become a rememberer ever since I gave birth.

613
00:29:56,207 --> 00:29:59,007
Speaker 3: I have been keeping a diary, which I haven't done

614
00:29:59,047 --> 00:29:59,807
Speaker 3: since I was a child.

615
00:29:59,887 --> 00:30:01,967
Speaker 1: I was not a remember that's a documentar.

616
00:30:01,567 --> 00:30:03,327
Speaker 3: Which because I want to be, I would have remembered.

617
00:30:03,327 --> 00:30:05,207
Speaker 4: It's a good fix though, So a few.

618
00:30:05,007 --> 00:30:07,447
Speaker 3: Weeks after birth, I was adamant. I was like, everyone

619
00:30:07,447 --> 00:30:09,887
Speaker 3: gives me space. I need to write down everything that

620
00:30:10,007 --> 00:30:13,487
Speaker 3: happened or I will forget. I will forget. And even

621
00:30:13,567 --> 00:30:16,447
Speaker 3: now I haven't gone back and read it. But even

622
00:30:16,487 --> 00:30:18,847
Speaker 3: birth now, eighteen months later, it's very blurry. I don't

623
00:30:19,047 --> 00:30:20,447
Speaker 3: remember of it.

624
00:30:20,567 --> 00:30:23,607
Speaker 1: I have a question. I also think. Firstly, we consume

625
00:30:23,687 --> 00:30:26,887
Speaker 1: so much more information, so there's less room for it

626
00:30:26,927 --> 00:30:29,087
Speaker 1: to be stored. I don't know if that's how brains work,

627
00:30:29,167 --> 00:30:30,967
Speaker 1: but it feels like it feels like it should be

628
00:30:31,007 --> 00:30:35,407
Speaker 1: how brain's work. And also, I've literally forgotten.

629
00:30:35,007 --> 00:30:37,247
Speaker 4: What myself.

630
00:30:39,007 --> 00:30:39,047
Speaker 5: This.

631
00:30:39,407 --> 00:30:43,567
Speaker 4: Luca always says that he only remembers the useful stuff

632
00:30:43,607 --> 00:30:46,167
Speaker 4: like and he finds it useless to remember why I

633
00:30:46,287 --> 00:30:48,167
Speaker 4: remembered I've remembered.

634
00:30:48,687 --> 00:30:51,447
Speaker 1: Has the Internet and Google and all the things, like,

635
00:30:51,487 --> 00:30:54,007
Speaker 1: you don't have to remember things anymore. It used to

636
00:30:54,087 --> 00:30:57,527
Speaker 1: be you have to remember what happens because you have

637
00:30:57,567 --> 00:31:00,447
Speaker 1: to make a like a heart memory of this moment

638
00:31:00,527 --> 00:31:03,527
Speaker 1: in this holiday. Now it's like I'll take fifty photos

639
00:31:03,527 --> 00:31:06,527
Speaker 1: with my phone. Yeah. And also I don't have to

640
00:31:06,527 --> 00:31:09,647
Speaker 1: remember anything because I'll find it on Google. Have to

641
00:31:09,767 --> 00:31:12,887
Speaker 1: learn something for a test because I can always find

642
00:31:12,927 --> 00:31:17,287
Speaker 1: the information. So have our memories become flabby from lack

643
00:31:17,327 --> 00:31:17,807
Speaker 1: of use?

644
00:31:18,007 --> 00:31:20,287
Speaker 4: That worries me. I want to keep my brain agile.

645
00:31:20,287 --> 00:31:21,967
Speaker 4: And that's why when I get sent a pin, you know,

646
00:31:21,967 --> 00:31:25,687
Speaker 4: a security pin, I will never copy and paste. I'm like, no, no, no,

647
00:31:25,767 --> 00:31:27,727
Speaker 4: Jesse's going to remember the six numbers.

648
00:31:28,007 --> 00:31:31,327
Speaker 1: I'm still going to become childhood phone number of my house.

649
00:31:31,647 --> 00:31:34,047
Speaker 1: I remember the phone number of my best friend from

650
00:31:34,087 --> 00:31:37,687
Speaker 1: when I was seven, But I don't know my own children's,

651
00:31:37,727 --> 00:31:39,647
Speaker 1: any of them their phone numbers need.

652
00:31:39,527 --> 00:31:42,287
Speaker 3: To I don't know my husband's, but I know my family.

653
00:31:41,967 --> 00:31:43,767
Speaker 1: Because you don't have to. Back then, the only way

654
00:31:43,807 --> 00:31:45,607
Speaker 1: you could know a phone number was either to write

655
00:31:45,647 --> 00:31:49,167
Speaker 1: it down or to have it in your brain, so

656
00:31:49,247 --> 00:31:51,487
Speaker 1: the one you would remember them. Now, you don't have

657
00:31:51,567 --> 00:31:52,967
Speaker 1: to know anyone's phone number, you just.

658
00:31:52,967 --> 00:31:56,647
Speaker 4: I feel like this is an evolutionary thing that persists

659
00:31:56,807 --> 00:32:00,647
Speaker 4: over time because the world needs. Every village, every little

660
00:32:00,647 --> 00:32:03,687
Speaker 4: community needs remembers, and it needs forget. Is if you

661
00:32:03,807 --> 00:32:06,407
Speaker 4: just had a village full of rememberers, Oh my god,

662
00:32:06,687 --> 00:32:09,167
Speaker 4: it'd be or it'd be very pecial. Everyone would just

663
00:32:09,487 --> 00:32:11,247
Speaker 4: it'd be petty. Hey, No one would be talking to

664
00:32:11,287 --> 00:32:14,767
Speaker 4: each other. No, there'd be no innovation.

665
00:32:15,087 --> 00:32:18,447
Speaker 3: Is your twin? I remember, yes, one, So you're both

666
00:32:18,487 --> 00:32:19,087
Speaker 3: remembering it.

667
00:32:19,007 --> 00:32:20,887
Speaker 4: For the same reason, probably because she also just tells,

668
00:32:21,047 --> 00:32:23,407
Speaker 4: cause we tell and then we go. Our only thing

669
00:32:23,487 --> 00:32:25,647
Speaker 4: is that often we forget who the memory happened to.

670
00:32:25,727 --> 00:32:27,367
Speaker 4: So I'll tell a story about something that happened to

671
00:32:27,447 --> 00:32:30,207
Speaker 4: me and she'll go this thing about remembers as well.

672
00:32:30,527 --> 00:32:34,167
Speaker 4: Are we always entirely correct? Maybe not. But I will

673
00:32:34,167 --> 00:32:36,487
Speaker 4: tell a story and Claire will go, that happened to me,

674
00:32:36,687 --> 00:32:38,327
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, I did it. Ah, that had

675
00:32:38,327 --> 00:32:39,287
Speaker 4: filed into my memory.

676
00:32:39,407 --> 00:32:42,727
Speaker 1: Okay, that's another thing I remember. Stories are easier to

677
00:32:42,767 --> 00:32:46,287
Speaker 1: remember than facts, like random facts, if they're not attached

678
00:32:46,287 --> 00:32:46,887
Speaker 1: to a story.

679
00:32:46,967 --> 00:32:48,567
Speaker 4: See, I can't. I'm not good with random facts.

680
00:32:48,647 --> 00:32:50,647
Speaker 1: Yeah they're not, so some people are, but I don't

681
00:32:50,647 --> 00:32:50,847
Speaker 1: know that.

682
00:32:50,967 --> 00:32:54,647
Speaker 4: But forgetters often say they're terrible storytellers because I can't

683
00:32:54,647 --> 00:32:56,407
Speaker 4: tell a story. I don't have any of the details.

684
00:32:56,487 --> 00:33:00,687
Speaker 4: A good story is about the random, specific details.

685
00:33:00,887 --> 00:33:03,487
Speaker 1: Two other things before we go, I can. Let's see

686
00:33:03,487 --> 00:33:05,447
Speaker 1: if I can remember them both. The first is that

687
00:33:05,567 --> 00:33:09,047
Speaker 1: COVID really messed with forgetting and remembering because it was

688
00:33:09,087 --> 00:33:11,167
Speaker 1: so such a weird time and because it was like

689
00:33:11,247 --> 00:33:14,207
Speaker 1: being put on pause for two years or so. A

690
00:33:14,247 --> 00:33:16,567
Speaker 1: lot of people are very slippery around time, Like, I've

691
00:33:16,607 --> 00:33:19,047
Speaker 1: never been good with time, but COVID really.

692
00:33:18,887 --> 00:33:21,087
Speaker 4: Muss with it. I have black holes around COVID. Something

693
00:33:21,167 --> 00:33:21,927
Speaker 4: happened during COVID.

694
00:33:22,007 --> 00:33:24,367
Speaker 1: Yeah, so even for the remembers, that's interesting and The

695
00:33:24,367 --> 00:33:26,127
Speaker 1: second thing. When we first started talking about this, and

696
00:33:26,167 --> 00:33:27,727
Speaker 1: I said I was a forgetter. You sayed, is that

697
00:33:28,007 --> 00:33:31,687
Speaker 1: worry you? Your implication, I assume is are you worried

698
00:33:31,727 --> 00:33:32,887
Speaker 1: it's early on set dementia.

699
00:33:33,127 --> 00:33:33,527
Speaker 4: I don't know.

700
00:33:33,687 --> 00:33:34,047
Speaker 1: I meant.

701
00:33:34,087 --> 00:33:37,807
Speaker 4: I meant, does it worry you that you can't remember?

702
00:33:37,847 --> 00:33:40,607
Speaker 4: That would make me really anxious really to go oh,

703
00:33:40,727 --> 00:33:43,767
Speaker 4: hang on, I can't remember this specific detail, or I

704
00:33:43,807 --> 00:33:45,767
Speaker 4: can't keep up with my grudges, but I am.

705
00:33:45,727 --> 00:33:48,047
Speaker 3: Really worried about getting early on set to mancha, especially

706
00:33:48,047 --> 00:33:48,967
Speaker 3: because it's in my family.

707
00:33:49,207 --> 00:33:52,247
Speaker 1: Well, so here's some news for you. I interviewed a

708
00:33:52,247 --> 00:33:54,407
Speaker 1: woman called Kerry Katine who's written a book about her

709
00:33:54,407 --> 00:33:58,007
Speaker 1: mother who got early onset Alzheimer's and she was only

710
00:33:58,047 --> 00:34:00,967
Speaker 1: in her early fifties, and she talks about the first

711
00:34:01,007 --> 00:34:03,127
Speaker 1: time she really noticed. They were out shopping in a

712
00:34:03,127 --> 00:34:05,207
Speaker 1: shopping center they've been to all the time, and then

713
00:34:05,447 --> 00:34:08,167
Speaker 1: her mother couldn't remember where her car was. And I

714
00:34:08,207 --> 00:34:10,407
Speaker 1: interrupted her when she was telling the story, and I said,

715
00:34:10,967 --> 00:34:12,887
Speaker 1: that makes me panic, because every time I go to

716
00:34:12,927 --> 00:34:15,087
Speaker 1: the shopping center or anywhere, I forget where my car is.

717
00:34:15,127 --> 00:34:18,567
Speaker 1: And she said, but no, then that's what you always do.

718
00:34:18,647 --> 00:34:21,727
Speaker 1: The reason that she remembered this happening to her mother

719
00:34:21,967 --> 00:34:24,327
Speaker 1: that particular time, and why it stood out as a

720
00:34:24,447 --> 00:34:27,247
Speaker 1: red flag is that her mother was not that person.

721
00:34:27,727 --> 00:34:30,127
Speaker 1: So her mother was not a forgetful person. It was

722
00:34:30,207 --> 00:34:34,527
Speaker 1: completely out of character. So that's just a little note.

723
00:34:34,567 --> 00:34:36,247
Speaker 1: We'll put a link in our show notes in case

724
00:34:36,287 --> 00:34:39,727
Speaker 1: anyone's because this is what anxiety is. I'm forward thinking

725
00:34:39,927 --> 00:34:42,727
Speaker 1: and panicking. That you said, I'm not worried about that.

726
00:34:42,847 --> 00:34:45,567
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm very worried about our futures, mate, that

727
00:34:45,687 --> 00:34:47,327
Speaker 1: forgetters maybe live in the future more.

728
00:34:47,647 --> 00:34:50,047
Speaker 3: No, I'm worried about the past.

729
00:34:50,767 --> 00:34:52,407
Speaker 1: Right, I'll put a link in the show notes if

730
00:34:52,447 --> 00:34:53,567
Speaker 1: you can remember.

731
00:34:53,287 --> 00:34:57,647
Speaker 4: To what was I going to put it? No filter

732
00:34:58,527 --> 00:35:00,887
Speaker 4: and out Louders. I want out louders to jump in

733
00:35:01,007 --> 00:35:02,887
Speaker 4: the out Louders Facebook group and tell us are you

734
00:35:03,007 --> 00:35:05,807
Speaker 4: a rememberer, are you a forgetter? Which one is better?

735
00:35:06,047 --> 00:35:09,367
Speaker 4: And why to forget us? Piss you're off? Because I

736
00:35:09,367 --> 00:35:12,007
Speaker 4: would like it. They pissed me off. They pissed me off.

737
00:35:14,407 --> 00:35:17,207
Speaker 1: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of Mom

738
00:35:17,207 --> 00:35:18,967
Speaker 1: and Me Are Out Loud just for Mum and Me.

739
00:35:19,087 --> 00:35:21,607
Speaker 1: As subscribers follow the link in the show notes to

740
00:35:21,647 --> 00:35:23,967
Speaker 1: get your daily dose of Out Loud and a big

741
00:35:24,007 --> 00:35:29,647
Speaker 1: thank you to everyone who is already subscribed. Friends. Kim

742
00:35:29,687 --> 00:35:32,087
Speaker 1: Kardashin says she has ten more years of looking good

743
00:35:33,207 --> 00:35:34,967
Speaker 1: and then she's going to have a rest.

744
00:35:35,367 --> 00:35:37,727
Speaker 4: How old is she? Antennae is fifty three? How old

745
00:35:37,727 --> 00:35:38,007
Speaker 4: are you?

746
00:35:38,567 --> 00:35:40,167
Speaker 1: I am fifty two.

747
00:35:40,327 --> 00:35:41,327
Speaker 4: Twent are you fifty.

748
00:35:41,087 --> 00:35:42,647
Speaker 1: Three in a few months?

749
00:35:42,727 --> 00:35:43,967
Speaker 4: Okay, so you have a few months.

750
00:35:44,047 --> 00:35:46,287
Speaker 3: Your time is up now, TikTok, You're out.

751
00:35:46,447 --> 00:35:51,247
Speaker 1: No more met gala for me after October. She says

752
00:35:51,887 --> 00:35:55,447
Speaker 1: every year she wants to do something that challenges her,

753
00:35:55,567 --> 00:35:57,847
Speaker 1: and that acting is a challenge. That's where she started acting.

754
00:35:58,327 --> 00:36:01,487
Speaker 1: But she's not willing to cut out anti wrinkle injectables.

755
00:36:01,487 --> 00:36:05,287
Speaker 1: And she really talked about it in terms of she

756
00:36:05,367 --> 00:36:08,487
Speaker 1: has to work so hard to look the way she does.

757
00:36:09,487 --> 00:36:11,727
Speaker 1: But she's only it's so interesting. She sees it as

758
00:36:11,767 --> 00:36:14,127
Speaker 1: a binary. She's only going to do that for ten years,

759
00:36:14,167 --> 00:36:17,247
Speaker 1: and then her line in the sand is clearly at

760
00:36:17,247 --> 00:36:19,007
Speaker 1: fifty three. What's even the point?

761
00:36:19,167 --> 00:36:23,807
Speaker 4: What's like? What an interesting age? What happens you're fifty three?

762
00:36:23,847 --> 00:36:25,207
Speaker 4: Are you going to turn into a toad?

763
00:36:25,367 --> 00:36:27,967
Speaker 1: I don't think she's particularly like it's fifty three. I

764
00:36:27,967 --> 00:36:30,327
Speaker 1: think she's like, I've got about ten years. I've got

765
00:36:30,327 --> 00:36:33,247
Speaker 1: about a decade. But so she's in her early forty

766
00:36:33,247 --> 00:36:38,407
Speaker 1: one and she basically sees early fifties as game over, like,

767
00:36:38,887 --> 00:36:41,127
Speaker 1: don't even try. And that's interesting to me as well,

768
00:36:41,127 --> 00:36:44,247
Speaker 1: because I always think about those women like Kylie Jenner

769
00:36:44,287 --> 00:36:47,407
Speaker 1: and a lot of women now who start fucking with

770
00:36:47,447 --> 00:36:51,287
Speaker 1: their face early and anti wrinkle injections and filler and

771
00:36:51,727 --> 00:36:55,047
Speaker 1: all of those things that were once seen as something

772
00:36:55,087 --> 00:37:00,287
Speaker 1: you did forty plus or fifty plus. What happens when

773
00:37:00,287 --> 00:37:04,287
Speaker 1: you are at that age, like because you can't, I mean,

774
00:37:04,287 --> 00:37:05,927
Speaker 1: do you keep trying to turn back time.

775
00:37:06,287 --> 00:37:08,247
Speaker 4: I look at her face though, and she definitely she's

776
00:37:08,327 --> 00:37:10,927
Speaker 4: forty three. And I was watching the interview where she

777
00:37:10,967 --> 00:37:14,767
Speaker 4: talked about this, and the only way you can describe

778
00:37:14,767 --> 00:37:19,247
Speaker 4: her is ageless. There is noss, no sign of aging

779
00:37:19,567 --> 00:37:22,527
Speaker 4: anywhere on her face or body. No, and it's not

780
00:37:22,607 --> 00:37:23,727
Speaker 4: even that she looks.

781
00:37:23,967 --> 00:37:26,167
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd say the same for Kylie Jenno.

782
00:37:26,327 --> 00:37:29,087
Speaker 4: They could be the same age, yeah, Like I would

783
00:37:29,127 --> 00:37:31,207
Speaker 4: have no idea. And so it's to me.

784
00:37:31,367 --> 00:37:34,247
Speaker 1: And Chris Jenna, who's twenty years grow older again.

785
00:37:34,567 --> 00:37:37,967
Speaker 3: But that's offensive to Chris Jenner because Chris jen is

786
00:37:38,007 --> 00:37:40,967
Speaker 3: doing great things. She was in a music video like

787
00:37:41,087 --> 00:37:41,727
Speaker 3: yeah a year.

788
00:37:41,607 --> 00:37:45,007
Speaker 4: Ago, and that's Kim just being like nah nah over

789
00:37:45,047 --> 00:37:45,887
Speaker 4: the hell at fifty three.

790
00:37:46,047 --> 00:37:49,367
Speaker 3: But we can't blame King because this is the society

791
00:37:49,407 --> 00:37:51,927
Speaker 3: we live in where women have been taught that in Hollywood,

792
00:37:51,927 --> 00:37:53,207
Speaker 3: they've got an expiration day.

793
00:37:53,487 --> 00:37:56,487
Speaker 1: So what she says in the latest episode of The Kardashians,

794
00:37:56,727 --> 00:37:58,927
Speaker 1: she's got this plot line that revolves around her pitching

795
00:37:58,967 --> 00:38:01,407
Speaker 1: and eventually selling a comedy movie to Netflix, and I

796
00:38:01,407 --> 00:38:03,927
Speaker 1: think it's the one that my friend Bruna Papinrea, producer

797
00:38:03,967 --> 00:38:08,287
Speaker 1: of Strife, is doing with her. And she revealed that

798
00:38:08,367 --> 00:38:12,327
Speaker 1: she's got a ten year plan for her newfound acting passion.

799
00:38:12,527 --> 00:38:13,407
Speaker 1: Here's what she said.

800
00:38:14,087 --> 00:38:15,447
Speaker 4: I can do a movie a year.

801
00:38:16,207 --> 00:38:19,487
Speaker 7: I've got about ten years where I still look good,

802
00:38:20,407 --> 00:38:23,367
Speaker 7: so that's all I've got in me, and then I'll

803
00:38:23,367 --> 00:38:24,287
Speaker 7: take some time off.

804
00:38:25,247 --> 00:38:28,167
Speaker 4: So ten year plan, guys, that's my ten year plan.

805
00:38:28,527 --> 00:38:31,887
Speaker 1: And her point is that she feels the need to

806
00:38:31,967 --> 00:38:35,367
Speaker 1: lay off the injectibles so that she can show more emotions,

807
00:38:35,367 --> 00:38:36,687
Speaker 1: like she was like, how am I going to cry?

808
00:38:36,727 --> 00:38:38,327
Speaker 1: How am I going to be scared out of my mind.

809
00:38:38,687 --> 00:38:41,407
Speaker 1: I cannot move my face, so how will I act?

810
00:38:41,887 --> 00:38:43,887
Speaker 1: And then she's saying she's not willing to do that

811
00:38:44,087 --> 00:38:48,727
Speaker 1: because she's got to make the most of this next

812
00:38:48,767 --> 00:38:51,367
Speaker 1: ten years to look young and hot.

813
00:38:51,647 --> 00:38:53,527
Speaker 3: Is it about looking young and hot or is it

814
00:38:53,567 --> 00:38:57,247
Speaker 3: about just being a bit tired, Because from that I

815
00:38:57,327 --> 00:38:59,487
Speaker 3: kind of felt like she had ten years of go

816
00:38:59,487 --> 00:38:59,967
Speaker 3: go go.

817
00:39:00,167 --> 00:39:00,367
Speaker 2: No.

818
00:39:00,487 --> 00:39:04,047
Speaker 1: She was like, she's more like, I've got ten years. Well, yes,

819
00:39:04,087 --> 00:39:06,927
Speaker 1: but go go go for her involves selling her face

820
00:39:06,967 --> 00:39:09,727
Speaker 1: and body like because that's what she does. She's got

821
00:39:09,767 --> 00:39:12,327
Speaker 1: all of the you know, her brand is she's got

822
00:39:12,327 --> 00:39:15,767
Speaker 1: all these businesses, she's a billionaire, but her brand is

823
00:39:15,807 --> 00:39:18,927
Speaker 1: how she looks and reinventing herself and you know, looking

824
00:39:19,007 --> 00:39:20,847
Speaker 1: a certain way and whether it's the met Gala or

825
00:39:20,887 --> 00:39:24,407
Speaker 1: whether it's in what she posts on Instagram, that's her.

826
00:39:24,487 --> 00:39:27,727
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting that looking forward, even Kim kutaush she

827
00:39:27,767 --> 00:39:31,047
Speaker 4: in needs a finish line, like she needs to see

828
00:39:31,327 --> 00:39:34,487
Speaker 4: that somewhere in the future she can have a lie

829
00:39:34,527 --> 00:39:37,727
Speaker 4: down and stop with it a corset. The work, Yeah,

830
00:39:37,807 --> 00:39:40,127
Speaker 4: the work involved in the acting in the movie A year.

831
00:39:40,207 --> 00:39:42,687
Speaker 4: That's one thing to me, the thing that's making her

832
00:39:42,727 --> 00:39:48,767
Speaker 4: tired is the work that is going into her appearance,

833
00:39:48,807 --> 00:39:51,287
Speaker 4: which would be all the injector Like, imagine the exercise,

834
00:39:51,327 --> 00:39:54,007
Speaker 4: Imagine the diet, Imagine the hours and hours and hours

835
00:39:54,007 --> 00:39:55,807
Speaker 4: every day sat in hair and makeup and all that

836
00:39:55,887 --> 00:39:58,607
Speaker 4: kind of stuff. Like it's almost like she's saying, I've

837
00:39:58,647 --> 00:40:00,647
Speaker 4: got ten more years left in me where I can

838
00:40:00,727 --> 00:40:04,567
Speaker 4: keep this up. And then what the mask comes off.

839
00:40:04,647 --> 00:40:08,607
Speaker 3: It's almost like she's set an impossible standard for herself. Yeah,

840
00:40:08,887 --> 00:40:12,447
Speaker 3: by creating this kind of hyperversion.

841
00:40:11,687 --> 00:40:13,967
Speaker 1: Of her and by extension, for other women exactly. And

842
00:40:14,007 --> 00:40:17,047
Speaker 1: the fact that how she has to look as a

843
00:40:17,087 --> 00:40:22,407
Speaker 1: brand as Kim Kardashian is so contrary to what's required

844
00:40:23,207 --> 00:40:27,847
Speaker 1: to be in the movies and make TV and actually act.

845
00:40:28,367 --> 00:40:30,807
Speaker 1: That's really interesting because it's not just about her. It's

846
00:40:30,847 --> 00:40:34,447
Speaker 1: about every actress, right, every ailist, actress in and to

847
00:40:34,527 --> 00:40:36,607
Speaker 1: be good at acting, you have to have a face

848
00:40:36,647 --> 00:40:38,967
Speaker 1: that moves, you have to not look like you're thirty two,

849
00:40:39,327 --> 00:40:41,207
Speaker 1: an ageless perennial league.

850
00:40:40,967 --> 00:40:43,687
Speaker 4: Well the best actors in the world. I was thinking

851
00:40:43,727 --> 00:40:47,447
Speaker 4: about Margo, Robbie and Iitanya and how that was undone

852
00:40:47,487 --> 00:40:50,887
Speaker 4: and in order to inhabit that role, she needed to

853
00:40:50,967 --> 00:40:54,447
Speaker 4: put her vanity to the side, Charlie's thron in Monster like.

854
00:40:54,487 --> 00:40:56,327
Speaker 4: There are lots of examples of.

855
00:40:56,727 --> 00:40:59,007
Speaker 1: Women, yes, and that's why they went Oskars.

856
00:40:59,127 --> 00:41:00,727
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I don't think Nicole kid.

857
00:41:02,767 --> 00:41:05,207
Speaker 1: Kidman what she wore the metrosthetic noise. But the interesting

858
00:41:05,207 --> 00:41:06,847
Speaker 1: thing about all of those women and the time in

859
00:41:06,887 --> 00:41:09,087
Speaker 1: their career when they did it, including Rene's el worker

860
00:41:09,127 --> 00:41:13,007
Speaker 1: in Ridge Jones, any kind of beautiful woman who has

861
00:41:13,087 --> 00:41:19,287
Speaker 1: to downplay or ugly herself for a role. The awards

862
00:41:19,287 --> 00:41:21,927
Speaker 1: love it, the Oscars love it, people love it. But

863
00:41:21,967 --> 00:41:25,247
Speaker 1: they all do it when they're in their thirties or

864
00:41:25,287 --> 00:41:28,407
Speaker 1: their twenties. I mean Bridget Jones, rene es Elwiga and

865
00:41:28,567 --> 00:41:30,167
Speaker 1: you know, look, the fact that was sold to us

866
00:41:30,167 --> 00:41:34,287
Speaker 1: as being plus size is extraordinary. It was all when

867
00:41:35,367 --> 00:41:37,007
Speaker 1: it was not really how they.

868
00:41:36,887 --> 00:41:40,487
Speaker 4: Looked, so they could cause players ugly because that when

869
00:41:40,487 --> 00:41:42,807
Speaker 4: they got their award, it was like, you made yourself

870
00:41:42,847 --> 00:41:45,047
Speaker 4: so ugly, but you're actually so hot, crept and that's

871
00:41:45,047 --> 00:41:48,647
Speaker 4: why you're a good acrat. But I reckon this is

872
00:41:48,807 --> 00:41:58,167
Speaker 4: the This is the underappreciated value of not caring about

873
00:41:58,167 --> 00:42:01,367
Speaker 4: your looks or never really considering yourself good looking because

874
00:42:01,527 --> 00:42:05,167
Speaker 4: her saying I've only got ten more years of looking good.

875
00:42:05,527 --> 00:42:07,927
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh my god, I've never thought about it

876
00:42:08,007 --> 00:42:12,167
Speaker 4: like that, Like I've never I never was twenty and went,

877
00:42:12,727 --> 00:42:15,687
Speaker 4: my looks will fade and I look at beautiful people

878
00:42:15,727 --> 00:42:17,847
Speaker 4: around me, and I go, it must be really stressful

879
00:42:17,847 --> 00:42:21,127
Speaker 4: for you that it's probably at some stage going to

880
00:42:21,207 --> 00:42:21,767
Speaker 4: go downhill.

881
00:42:21,927 --> 00:42:24,687
Speaker 1: You probably don't follow any supermodels on Instagram. No, I

882
00:42:24,727 --> 00:42:28,607
Speaker 1: don't really interesting because I feel like the people who

883
00:42:28,927 --> 00:42:31,487
Speaker 1: struggle with this the most obviously are models. So women

884
00:42:31,487 --> 00:42:34,127
Speaker 1: who are famous specific would guinely be stressed for the

885
00:42:34,127 --> 00:42:39,447
Speaker 1: way they look, and their instagrams are all throwback picks

886
00:42:40,167 --> 00:42:43,487
Speaker 1: and then there'll be an occasional one now, but barely

887
00:42:44,327 --> 00:42:46,367
Speaker 1: and only if they look almost the same and they're

888
00:42:46,407 --> 00:42:49,527
Speaker 1: heavily filtered and heavily airbrushed, and like I look at

889
00:42:49,567 --> 00:42:51,247
Speaker 1: el McPherson and I feel exhausted.

890
00:42:51,687 --> 00:42:55,447
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would genuinely be really hard. Like, seriously, if

891
00:42:55,487 --> 00:43:00,287
Speaker 3: your whole existence was reliant on how you look, and

892
00:43:00,327 --> 00:43:02,767
Speaker 3: we know that our looks change't we be lucky.

893
00:43:03,847 --> 00:43:07,247
Speaker 4: We're so lucky. If you never feel that you look good,

894
00:43:07,247 --> 00:43:09,727
Speaker 4: then you never got on the treadmill and you've never

895
00:43:09,767 --> 00:43:12,487
Speaker 4: got a press stop. You just get to sit there

896
00:43:12,527 --> 00:43:13,447
Speaker 4: and have But.

897
00:43:13,407 --> 00:43:14,767
Speaker 3: I think that's sorry for Kim.

898
00:43:16,247 --> 00:43:18,487
Speaker 1: I actually, of course that's not true, because don't tell

899
00:43:18,487 --> 00:43:20,727
Speaker 1: me that every single woman doesn't struggle with aging. It's

900
00:43:20,767 --> 00:43:23,927
Speaker 1: the soup we swim in. We all swim in these

901
00:43:23,967 --> 00:43:27,967
Speaker 1: beauty standards, ironically, that are imposed by these women who

902
00:43:28,607 --> 00:43:32,127
Speaker 1: whose incomes depend on it. But they're the setter of

903
00:43:32,167 --> 00:43:36,367
Speaker 1: the beauty standards. Unfortunately, so even though our incomes don't

904
00:43:36,647 --> 00:43:39,927
Speaker 1: depend on it, we still feel shit about ourselves because

905
00:43:39,927 --> 00:43:42,607
Speaker 1: we don't look ageless. We don't look like Kim cut

906
00:43:42,607 --> 00:43:45,767
Speaker 1: Osh Unit forty three, We don't look like Chris January forty.

907
00:43:45,487 --> 00:43:48,207
Speaker 4: Three year old women who and I don't want this

908
00:43:48,287 --> 00:43:52,167
Speaker 4: to sound judgmental, but who are doing careers that have

909
00:43:52,327 --> 00:43:54,287
Speaker 4: nothing to do with how they look, and not worry

910
00:43:54,327 --> 00:43:55,847
Speaker 4: that they can't work in ten years.

911
00:43:56,007 --> 00:43:58,207
Speaker 1: They're not worried that they can't work in ten years.

912
00:43:58,327 --> 00:44:01,527
Speaker 1: I agree. But do they look in the mirror and

913
00:44:01,567 --> 00:44:05,367
Speaker 1: go ugh? Of course, I mean maybe they don't. Hopefully

914
00:44:05,407 --> 00:44:08,847
Speaker 1: they do. But I think we all compare ourselves subliminately

915
00:44:08,927 --> 00:44:11,487
Speaker 1: to these beauty standards that are imposed by these women

916
00:44:11,647 --> 00:44:14,167
Speaker 1: whose brands, Yeah, I love.

917
00:44:14,007 --> 00:44:16,367
Speaker 4: Our job to just go. I fundamentally don't see my

918
00:44:16,487 --> 00:44:19,167
Speaker 4: value as tied to how I look. Yeah, that's a

919
00:44:19,247 --> 00:44:20,727
Speaker 4: very easy thing to say.

920
00:44:20,807 --> 00:44:22,287
Speaker 3: It's a harder thing to actually do.

921
00:44:24,327 --> 00:44:27,767
Speaker 4: Out louders in case he missed it, I came back

922
00:44:27,887 --> 00:44:30,687
Speaker 4: from traveling this week with my baby Luna for the

923
00:44:30,727 --> 00:44:34,887
Speaker 4: first time, and there was a hospital visit, some translation

924
00:44:35,047 --> 00:44:38,167
Speaker 4: needed in French supermarkets, as well as some glorious highlights,

925
00:44:38,207 --> 00:44:41,167
Speaker 4: and we talked about all of that in a subscriber

926
00:44:41,207 --> 00:44:44,207
Speaker 4: episode which we released yesterday. There was one thing I

927
00:44:44,247 --> 00:44:45,727
Speaker 4: forgot to tell you that I thought you would really

928
00:44:45,807 --> 00:44:49,247
Speaker 4: enjoy a little tidbit. When I was at this Irish wedding,

929
00:44:49,407 --> 00:44:51,567
Speaker 4: I was dancing with this random Irish guy who had

930
00:44:51,567 --> 00:44:54,287
Speaker 4: had forty five guinnesses and he started dancing with me,

931
00:44:54,487 --> 00:44:57,007
Speaker 4: and as you would know, I currently dance, and then

932
00:44:57,047 --> 00:44:58,807
Speaker 4: he was just looking at me like there was something

933
00:44:58,847 --> 00:45:00,967
Speaker 4: wrong with me, which there is. And then he came

934
00:45:01,007 --> 00:45:03,047
Speaker 4: over to me later and he said, dancing with you

935
00:45:03,087 --> 00:45:06,167
Speaker 4: as I'd dancing with a squid. And I thought I

936
00:45:06,247 --> 00:45:10,567
Speaker 4: would really appreciate that. I really liked the squid analogy

937
00:45:10,687 --> 00:45:12,927
Speaker 4: because I thought it is because I don't know why

938
00:45:12,967 --> 00:45:14,127
Speaker 4: I'm going, How.

939
00:45:13,967 --> 00:45:15,127
Speaker 3: Does a squid dance?

940
00:45:15,167 --> 00:45:18,407
Speaker 1: I guess like this, yes, like he was trying out

941
00:45:18,487 --> 00:45:20,287
Speaker 1: loud As. If you want to see Jesse dance. We

942
00:45:20,327 --> 00:45:22,927
Speaker 1: actually made a video this week that's gone a little

943
00:45:22,927 --> 00:45:26,807
Speaker 1: bit viral. It was Jesse's idea. She noticed that American

944
00:45:27,167 --> 00:45:30,327
Speaker 1: men at Taylor Swift concerts and British men i e.

945
00:45:30,487 --> 00:45:34,927
Speaker 1: Prince William at Taylor Swift Concerts dance differently, and so

946
00:45:35,247 --> 00:45:40,447
Speaker 1: we demonstrated how American men move versus how British men move.

947
00:45:40,807 --> 00:45:42,647
Speaker 1: We go. You can go see that on it out

948
00:45:42,647 --> 00:45:42,927
Speaker 1: loud As.

949
00:45:42,927 --> 00:45:44,967
Speaker 4: It's pretty clear who their favorites are, and let's just

950
00:45:44,967 --> 00:45:45,767
Speaker 4: say it's the Brits.

951
00:45:46,167 --> 00:45:48,887
Speaker 1: There was an episode that you wanted to get involved

952
00:45:48,887 --> 00:45:50,807
Speaker 1: in when you were away. It was about monologuing.

953
00:45:51,087 --> 00:45:53,927
Speaker 4: Oh I loved this so much. Last Wednesday you did

954
00:45:53,927 --> 00:45:58,607
Speaker 4: an episode about the trend of being monologued at. There

955
00:45:58,687 --> 00:46:01,647
Speaker 4: was some frustration shared. If anyone wants to listen to that,

956
00:46:01,807 --> 00:46:03,807
Speaker 4: just go back into your feed. What else you talk about?

957
00:46:03,927 --> 00:46:06,807
Speaker 4: We also talk about Daddy Energy and Meghan and her

958
00:46:06,887 --> 00:46:08,487
Speaker 4: jam Yes, yes, yeah.

959
00:46:08,407 --> 00:46:10,967
Speaker 1: Megan dam but daddy Energy. Lots of people are talking

960
00:46:10,967 --> 00:46:13,727
Speaker 1: about daddy Energy. Is it creepy? Is it.

961
00:46:14,007 --> 00:46:14,247
Speaker 3: See.

962
00:46:14,247 --> 00:46:17,767
Speaker 1: I think your husband's got daddy energy. Jess just weird.

963
00:46:17,847 --> 00:46:21,047
Speaker 4: I don't know. It feels really sexual.

964
00:46:21,647 --> 00:46:23,367
Speaker 1: It should be sexual because he's your husband.

965
00:46:23,767 --> 00:46:25,887
Speaker 4: Well not sexual to you and your mother.

966
00:46:26,807 --> 00:46:27,767
Speaker 1: I don't want to do.

967
00:46:29,367 --> 00:46:29,927
Speaker 3: Out louders.

968
00:46:29,927 --> 00:46:32,647
Speaker 1: That's all we've got time for today. God for Jess. Oh,

969
00:46:32,687 --> 00:46:34,087
Speaker 1: he's going to be listening to this and she's going

970
00:46:34,127 --> 00:46:37,247
Speaker 1: to go never again. I'm not leaving listening to what

971
00:46:37,287 --> 00:46:40,647
Speaker 1: they do. They're talking about their weird family shit. A

972
00:46:40,687 --> 00:46:42,807
Speaker 1: big thank you to all of you for listening to

973
00:46:42,807 --> 00:46:46,207
Speaker 1: today's show and still being here. If anyone is still listening,

974
00:46:46,247 --> 00:46:49,367
Speaker 1: we will be back in your ears tomorrow if we remember.

975
00:46:49,607 --> 00:46:59,847
Speaker 4: Bye Bye bye shout out to any Mum and me

976
00:46:59,927 --> 00:47:02,647
Speaker 4: A subscribers listening. If you love the show and you

977
00:47:02,687 --> 00:47:05,567
Speaker 4: want to support us, subscribing to MoMA Mia is the

978
00:47:05,727 --> 00:47:08,167
Speaker 4: very best way to do so. There's a link in

979
00:47:08,207 --> 00:47:09,167
Speaker 4: the episode description.