WEBVTT - The Mum Who Asked A Stranger To Be Her Surrogate

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects

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<v Speaker 2>to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to

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<v Speaker 2>continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has

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<v Speaker 2>been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Cassenya Lukitch and this is diary of her birth.

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<v Speaker 2>Today's birth story comes to us from not one, but

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<v Speaker 2>two beautiful women, the surrogate and the intended parent.

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<v Speaker 1>Took me out her coffee one day and I really

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<v Speaker 1>fell off my chair when she said I want to

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<v Speaker 1>be your surrogate, and I told her she was mad.

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<v Speaker 2>But srogacy in Australia is no easy feat. The laws

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<v Speaker 2>surrounding it are incredibly complex, and perhaps the key difference

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<v Speaker 2>here is that surrogacy is an altruistic act in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>which in my opinion makes this story even more remarkable.

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<v Speaker 1>And it felt like like we weren't strangers at that

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<v Speaker 1>point either, so it felt like you know, a friend

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<v Speaker 1>doing this for us so and we both just knew

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<v Speaker 1>deep down that this journey would be a great one.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's meet today's mums.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Trudy Bateman and this is my sarrogacy birth

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<v Speaker 1>story A Lily. Hi. My name is Julie and this

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<v Speaker 1>is my birth story for baby Lily. As Trudy's friend

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<v Speaker 1>and sarrogate.

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<v Speaker 2>Meeting her partner Tom Later in life, Trudy knew that

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<v Speaker 2>the journey to parenthood may not be so easy, and

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<v Speaker 2>after a medical procedure left her unable to carry her

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<v Speaker 2>own children, she turned to surrogacy. Tom's sister Sarah, was

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<v Speaker 2>the surrogate for their first child, Bonnie, born in twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 1>And she got pregnant first go and COVID then hit

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<v Speaker 1>a few months later and she had to fly back

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<v Speaker 1>from the US to give birth in Sydney during the

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<v Speaker 1>height of COVID. So so we're really lucky first go

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<v Speaker 1>round to have Bonnie through sarrogacy.

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<v Speaker 2>But knowing they wanted a sibling, they turned to the

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<v Speaker 2>sarrogacy community via a Facebook.

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<v Speaker 1>Group, and then we decided to put our effort back

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<v Speaker 1>into the Australian surrogacy community and see if we could

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<v Speaker 1>find a surrogate that you know, we didn't know because

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<v Speaker 1>no one in our close circle lafriends or family was

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<v Speaker 1>able to do it, so we joined the Australian Surrogacy

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<v Speaker 1>community to see if we could meet someone potentially to

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<v Speaker 1>be our surrogate. Tell us about how you met Julie. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so I met Julie through the community in twenty nineteen.

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<v Speaker 1>It was so I had just entered the community, I

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<v Speaker 1>was learning, and she had just given birth to her

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<v Speaker 1>first surrogate baby, and she was, I guess, riding the

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<v Speaker 1>highs of the post birth of surrogacy. And we chatted

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<v Speaker 1>a fair bit and I asked her lots of questions

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<v Speaker 1>because I was trying to learn a lot about surrogacy

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia. And my sister in law then offered to

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<v Speaker 1>be our surrogate. So we went through that journey, and

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<v Speaker 1>then fast forward to twenty twenty three and we just

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<v Speaker 1>had our failed journey with our other surrogate for a sibling,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I went to one of the in person

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<v Speaker 1>catch ups through the Facebook community and Julie was there,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'd never actually met her in person before. So

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<v Speaker 1>we sat and we chatted and drank Margarita's all night,

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<v Speaker 1>and I guess the rest is history. We saw each

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<v Speaker 1>other a lot after that and caught up, and then

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<v Speaker 1>she took me out for coffee one day and I

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<v Speaker 1>really fell off my chair when she said I want

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<v Speaker 1>to be your surrogate, and I told her she was mad. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a crazy idea, and I thought she was

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<v Speaker 1>a retired surrogate, but she was adamant that she was

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<v Speaker 1>ready to do another journey for Tom and I.

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<v Speaker 2>So how does the proces work?

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<v Speaker 1>So we really delved into all of the topics that

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<v Speaker 1>we needed to cover to make sure we really were

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<v Speaker 1>on the same page. So there's lots of things to discuss.

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<v Speaker 1>You want to make sure you're on the same page

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<v Speaker 1>about termination, about what the birth looks like, about vaccinations,

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<v Speaker 1>about diet, exercise, or what happens in pregnancy, birth and beyond.

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess first off, we wanted to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>we ticked off everything on that list to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>we were on the same page and that there was

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<v Speaker 1>nothing that was going to come up later that would

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<v Speaker 1>be detrimental to our team. So that was kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the first step. And once we knew we're all on

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<v Speaker 1>the same page, we go and do the mandatory counseling

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<v Speaker 1>that you do, so you do intended parents do counseling

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<v Speaker 1>Julie does counseling, and then we all do counseling together

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<v Speaker 1>to try to, I guess, go through everything to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure there's no red flags, to make sure that we're

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<v Speaker 1>all on the same page, and it really is one

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<v Speaker 1>of those exercise you've got to do as part of

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<v Speaker 1>the legal process. Then we go through the legal side,

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<v Speaker 1>which is to write a surrogacy agreement, We get independent

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<v Speaker 1>legal advice, we signed that agreement. We then have to

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<v Speaker 1>go through our ethics committee at the IBS clinics. Julie

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<v Speaker 1>has to go through and get approved as a surrogate

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<v Speaker 1>from a specialist obstetrician. We have to get approved as

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<v Speaker 1>requiring surrogacy. We need to have a legitimate reason for

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<v Speaker 1>requiring surrogacy. So all of that needs to happen, and

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<v Speaker 1>the IVF clinics have to approve your case. And once

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<v Speaker 1>you've been approved, then you can move forward to the

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<v Speaker 1>next step, which is the transfer stage to trying to

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<v Speaker 1>transfer those embryos.

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<v Speaker 2>And one thing that I personally love hearing from parents

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<v Speaker 2>who have gone through in fertility is what was it

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<v Speaker 2>like getting that positive test.

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<v Speaker 1>When Jules told us, You know, it was immediate shock

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<v Speaker 1>that you'd done it already, but I was so happy

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<v Speaker 1>that she had been sneaky as well, because the pressure

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<v Speaker 1>of that blood test and it's just it's so overwhelming

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<v Speaker 1>to go to that blood test and then wait for

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<v Speaker 1>the phone call. So when she did that and I

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<v Speaker 1>saw Tom kind of automatically going, yeah, nah, it doesn't matter.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you've got to have the blood test too,

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<v Speaker 1>and she pulled it out, I was like, here we

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<v Speaker 1>go with. You know, we've hicked that first hule, that

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<v Speaker 1>is the biggest one. And yeah. It was complete disbelief

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, at that stage, we only had one embryo,

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<v Speaker 1>so we had one shot at it as well. So

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<v Speaker 1>when Jules offered to be our surrogate, we didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>any embryos. We were doing round after round after round

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<v Speaker 1>trying to make embryos and transferring them to me just

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<v Speaker 1>to try for a miracle. And when she asked us

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<v Speaker 1>if she could be our surrogate, then I said to Tom,

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<v Speaker 1>just one more round, Just one more I'd said that

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<v Speaker 1>many times, but I really meant it this time. And

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<v Speaker 1>it was the magic round. And I was forty four

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<v Speaker 1>and a half, so it was such a small chance

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<v Speaker 1>of it being a normal embryo, and sure enough I

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<v Speaker 1>got one embryo. She was normal, and that was the

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<v Speaker 1>one embryo we had to transfer to Jules. So there

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<v Speaker 1>was a lot writing on that transfer as well. Coming up.

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<v Speaker 1>She kept saying to me, I think it's strong to

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<v Speaker 1>go to hospital, Mum. I think I think we need

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<v Speaker 1>to get out of here.

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<v Speaker 2>The time has finally come. And despite being a midwife herself,

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<v Speaker 2>Julie was like every other mum in early labor.

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<v Speaker 1>The contractions had really picked up by then, and so

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<v Speaker 1>I actually messaged a friend of mine and said, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what to do with myself. You know, these

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<v Speaker 1>contractions are getting stronger. I just I'm so tired, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a midwife, and I'm seeking the advice of a

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<v Speaker 1>friend to say what do I do. So ended up

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<v Speaker 1>calling Truty, and Truty like, oh, we're on, I'll head over.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, no, No, don't head over yet, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe get Tom home from work. But I, in my head,

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<v Speaker 1>I felt wearing for a long hul there is another

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen hours before you know, we meet this baby, So

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<v Speaker 1>no need to rush and no need to panic. But

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<v Speaker 1>I could hear in Trudy's voice that she was probably

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<v Speaker 1>feeling quite nervous and anxious. Anyway, I hung up from

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<v Speaker 1>her and got my daughter home from work. She arrived

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<v Speaker 1>home and I was in the shower being quite vocal,

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<v Speaker 1>so she was a bit sort of scared. Anyway, I

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<v Speaker 1>continued to labor at home, tried the bath. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>realize at the time that my poor daughter was feeling

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<v Speaker 1>extremely overwhelmed. It was just the two of us here.

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<v Speaker 1>She kept saying to me, I think it's time to

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<v Speaker 1>go to hospital. Mum, I think, stime, I think we

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<v Speaker 1>need to get out of here. I'll just give truth

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<v Speaker 1>to a call and let it. No, don't call Trudy,

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<v Speaker 1>don't tell Trudy. Trudy doesn't need to be here.

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<v Speaker 3>It's too early.

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<v Speaker 1>It's too early. And then my other support person, who

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<v Speaker 1>is a dear friend, Hannah, who also is a midwife.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd been in touch with her, and she said, let

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<v Speaker 1>me come over, let me come over, and I said, no,

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<v Speaker 1>it's only early, it's too early to come over. Little

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<v Speaker 1>did I know it was things were really happening quite quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>So Indian Hannah did come over, and Trudy and Tom

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<v Speaker 1>had actually left home. Despite me saying, no, it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be hours yet, But thankfully they'd left home to

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<v Speaker 1>head over in this direction, and my daughter had actually

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<v Speaker 1>then messaged Trudy and said, look, meet us at the hospital.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't come here because things are progressing quickly, so just

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<v Speaker 1>come straight to the hospital. The drive to the hospital

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<v Speaker 1>is quite harrowing. It wasn't an enjoyable ride. I'm only

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<v Speaker 1>five minutes from the hospital, but it was really I

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<v Speaker 1>think I've scarred my daughter for life with that drive.

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<v Speaker 2>After arriving at the hospital, Trudy and Tom were right

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<v Speaker 2>there in the delivery room waiting for their child to

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<v Speaker 2>be born.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Jules had her support people around her as

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<v Speaker 1>well as Tom and I. So she had her daughter

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<v Speaker 1>and her best friend and her two midwives there and

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<v Speaker 1>Tom and I in the room. And for a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of it, they'd done that before with Jules. They'd been

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<v Speaker 1>her support person, so they knew exactly how to get

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<v Speaker 1>her through the labor. So they had a huge role

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<v Speaker 1>in helping her. And there was lots of moments when

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<v Speaker 1>Tom and I were over there holding her hand and

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<v Speaker 1>telling her how wonderful she was, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>moments where poor Tom was hiding in the back because

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<v Speaker 1>he was quite traumatized as well. You get a good

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<v Speaker 1>sense of what it feels like to be the partner

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<v Speaker 1>of the person giving birth when you feel so helpless

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<v Speaker 1>and there's nothing you can do to take that pain

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<v Speaker 1>away from them. They've just got to kind of get

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<v Speaker 1>through it. So it's really hard to watch, especially in

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<v Speaker 1>a surrogacy birth. Feels like such a privilege to be

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<v Speaker 1>in the room for a surrogacy birth because they are

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<v Speaker 1>so rare and they're so emotional. And I remember I

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<v Speaker 1>was right but Tom and I were right beside Julie

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<v Speaker 1>on that last push, and I remember the midwife saying,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, pop your head down and have a look.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll see her come out. And I saw this dark

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<v Speaker 1>hair and then I saw her face and she was

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<v Speaker 1>still in the sack. It was the most incredible thing

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<v Speaker 1>I've ever seen. So she was still in the sack,

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<v Speaker 1>and the midwife, Heidi, had to kind of tear the

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<v Speaker 1>sack open around her face, and it was the most

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<v Speaker 1>incredible thing I've ever seen, sort of seeing her kind

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<v Speaker 1>of come out of this sack. Water went everywhere, and

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<v Speaker 1>then you know, it was just one contraction and she

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<v Speaker 1>was completely out, like it wasn't just her head it

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<v Speaker 1>was her whole body was just kind of came over

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<v Speaker 1>and flipped onto Julie. So it felt like it happened

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<v Speaker 1>really quickly. At the end, there we were at the

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<v Speaker 1>hospital less than two hours and even looking at Julie

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<v Speaker 1>and we've got photos from the berth, we had a

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<v Speaker 1>birth photographer, and just the look of shock, like we

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<v Speaker 1>all knew a baby was going to be born, but

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<v Speaker 1>just the look on Julie's face was like, Wow, she's

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<v Speaker 1>looked gobsmack that she'd done it. And I couldn't believe

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<v Speaker 1>this baby was there either, after everything that we've been through.

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<v Speaker 1>So it really is the most surreal experience seeing that

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<v Speaker 1>baby for the first time and then hearing her cry.

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<v Speaker 1>She cried straight away, so that was, you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>hugest thing of relief for me is to hear a

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<v Speaker 1>cry and see everybody okay. So it was incredible.

0:12:33.493 --> 0:12:37.732
<v Speaker 2>Despite delivering a healthy baby girl still in the memoranes,

0:12:37.813 --> 0:12:41.093
<v Speaker 2>might I add, things took a scary turn for Julie.

0:12:41.413 --> 0:12:44.333
<v Speaker 1>I noticed that the dynamics in the room had changed

0:12:44.493 --> 0:12:49.693
<v Speaker 1>between my friends, my midwifs, and I thought something wasn't right.

0:12:49.893 --> 0:12:52.773
<v Speaker 1>And I looked at Heidi and I said to her

0:12:53.533 --> 0:12:56.293
<v Speaker 1>I'm bleeding, aren't I? And she said, yeah, yeah you are.

0:12:56.693 --> 0:12:59.453
<v Speaker 1>So I knew at that point I just needed to

0:12:59.493 --> 0:13:02.653
<v Speaker 1>focus on newly and let them do what they needed

0:13:02.653 --> 0:13:06.293
<v Speaker 1>to do. The doctor came in very quickly to try

0:13:06.333 --> 0:13:08.253
<v Speaker 1>and stop the bleeding, and then you know, all the

0:13:08.333 --> 0:13:12.653
<v Speaker 1>different drugs and ivy fluids and commenced, and I just

0:13:12.813 --> 0:13:15.053
<v Speaker 1>kept looking at Tom and Trudy. I just kept making

0:13:15.053 --> 0:13:17.813
<v Speaker 1>them my focus and tried to sort of distance myself

0:13:17.813 --> 0:13:21.372
<v Speaker 1>to what was happening because I've been in the emergencies

0:13:21.373 --> 0:13:24.453
<v Speaker 1>before and they're not much fun. So I thought, I

0:13:24.653 --> 0:13:26.893
<v Speaker 1>just and I remember looking at Trudy and Tom saying,

0:13:26.933 --> 0:13:29.213
<v Speaker 1>I'm just not ready to hand her over yet. I

0:13:29.373 --> 0:13:34.013
<v Speaker 1>just needed her to stay on me. And they had

0:13:34.053 --> 0:13:36.013
<v Speaker 1>no objections at all that were like no, no keeper,

0:13:36.053 --> 0:13:39.933
<v Speaker 1>please keep her so and I think she was probably

0:13:40.733 --> 0:13:42.852
<v Speaker 1>looking back at photos. I think she's probably about forty

0:13:42.933 --> 0:13:46.013
<v Speaker 1>forty five minutes before I handed her over. I just

0:13:46.093 --> 0:13:49.693
<v Speaker 1>didn't feel ready until that point. I just felt like

0:13:49.733 --> 0:13:53.013
<v Speaker 1>I needed her with me, and I felt no pressure

0:13:53.093 --> 0:13:55.293
<v Speaker 1>or no sense of urgency from Trudy or Tom to

0:13:56.093 --> 0:13:58.973
<v Speaker 1>hand her over. Yeah, it was probably around four o'clock

0:13:59.093 --> 0:14:03.173
<v Speaker 1>when I handed her over, and by that stage the

0:14:03.173 --> 0:14:06.333
<v Speaker 1>bleeding had settled and stopped and the doctors had finished

0:14:06.373 --> 0:14:07.413
<v Speaker 1>doing what they needed to do.

0:14:07.613 --> 0:14:11.852
<v Speaker 2>This moment of pure love and selflessness, despite the craziness,

0:14:12.413 --> 0:14:16.053
<v Speaker 2>is incredibly heartwarming to me. But then it was time

0:14:16.093 --> 0:14:19.933
<v Speaker 2>for Julie to hand over Lily to her intended parents.

0:14:21.053 --> 0:14:24.213
<v Speaker 1>I felt very passionately about being the one that handed

0:14:24.413 --> 0:14:28.333
<v Speaker 1>the baby that I've grown over to her parents. I didn't,

0:14:28.493 --> 0:14:30.773
<v Speaker 1>you know, want someone to take her off me and

0:14:31.133 --> 0:14:33.253
<v Speaker 1>hand her over, And we'd sort of discussed that during

0:14:33.293 --> 0:14:35.733
<v Speaker 1>pregnancy that you know, what if the baby's born and

0:14:35.773 --> 0:14:37.933
<v Speaker 1>she's not well and she has to go to the

0:14:37.973 --> 0:14:41.373
<v Speaker 1>special care nursery, you know how a handover might look

0:14:41.613 --> 0:14:44.533
<v Speaker 1>in that scenario. Thankfully we weren't faced with that. But

0:14:44.613 --> 0:14:48.293
<v Speaker 1>to me, that handover was really important because that's that

0:14:48.373 --> 0:14:52.733
<v Speaker 1>real altruistic part where what you've done and that that

0:14:52.813 --> 0:14:58.093
<v Speaker 1>official handover to the parents was pretty special and yeah,

0:14:58.293 --> 0:15:00.373
<v Speaker 1>very very emotionally fueled.

0:15:01.093 --> 0:15:11.013
<v Speaker 3>Lots of tears true to tell me about meeting Lily

0:15:11.093 --> 0:15:11.853
<v Speaker 3>for the first time.

0:15:12.493 --> 0:15:14.853
<v Speaker 1>One of the best parts I think about Zeregacy is

0:15:15.333 --> 0:15:20.773
<v Speaker 1>actually watching Julie with that baby as well, so we

0:15:20.813 --> 0:15:22.773
<v Speaker 1>get to see what she looks like we get to

0:15:22.933 --> 0:15:27.173
<v Speaker 1>look over her and see this incredible human that Jewles

0:15:27.213 --> 0:15:29.893
<v Speaker 1>has grown. And she could have stayed there for hours,

0:15:29.933 --> 0:15:32.253
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't have bothered me. I'd waited years for this moment,

0:15:32.373 --> 0:15:35.573
<v Speaker 1>so I didn't care how long it took for Jewels

0:15:35.573 --> 0:15:38.573
<v Speaker 1>to hand her over, Like that is the moment. You know,

0:15:39.173 --> 0:15:41.453
<v Speaker 1>all the planning or the counseling, all the legs, all

0:15:41.453 --> 0:15:45.133
<v Speaker 1>the whole pregnancy, you're leading up to this moment when

0:15:45.133 --> 0:15:48.253
<v Speaker 1>the baby's born, she's healthy, and then you have that

0:15:48.853 --> 0:15:52.813
<v Speaker 1>handover moment. And so that to us, we needed to

0:15:52.853 --> 0:15:56.773
<v Speaker 1>preserve that. And it was a beautiful moment because Jewles

0:15:56.813 --> 0:15:58.733
<v Speaker 1>literally just picked her up and handed her to me.

0:15:58.813 --> 0:16:04.213
<v Speaker 1>And it's the most emotional moment because I could not

0:16:04.293 --> 0:16:08.373
<v Speaker 1>give birth to her, but you know, she is genetically mine.

0:16:08.453 --> 0:16:11.373
<v Speaker 1>She is Throughout the whole pregnancy, I felt close enough

0:16:11.373 --> 0:16:15.293
<v Speaker 1>to Jules that she still felt like she was mine.

0:16:14.973 --> 0:16:18.933
<v Speaker 1>And it's yeah, it's just that moment that we become

0:16:18.973 --> 0:16:24.373
<v Speaker 1>parents again, thanks to the selflessness of our beautiful surrogate, Julie.

0:16:24.413 --> 0:16:28.613
<v Speaker 1>So it's an incredible moment and thank goodness, we've got,

0:16:28.653 --> 0:16:31.973
<v Speaker 1>you know, the photos to remember it by, and we've

0:16:32.013 --> 0:16:34.693
<v Speaker 1>all got a great memory of that process because it

0:16:34.773 --> 0:16:38.613
<v Speaker 1>was something that we had wanted for so long. Yeah,

0:16:38.653 --> 0:16:41.773
<v Speaker 1>and she was healthy and Jules was healthy. Like, you know,

0:16:42.093 --> 0:16:47.293
<v Speaker 1>she had the big bleed, but at that point of handover,

0:16:47.453 --> 0:16:50.773
<v Speaker 1>we knew the bleeding had stopped, she'd been sewed up,

0:16:50.893 --> 0:16:55.733
<v Speaker 1>and everything was hopefully okay. It was definitely a scary

0:16:55.733 --> 0:16:58.413
<v Speaker 1>moment because I knew something was going on, and you can,

0:16:58.693 --> 0:17:01.853
<v Speaker 1>I saw that moment kind of let dynamic in the

0:17:01.933 --> 0:17:06.852
<v Speaker 1>room change as well, and I'm automatically like, how's Julie.

0:17:06.973 --> 0:17:09.332
<v Speaker 1>Is Julie okay? Is Julie okay? And I just wanted

0:17:09.332 --> 0:17:12.853
<v Speaker 1>to know that she was okay and yeah, and goodness

0:17:13.213 --> 0:17:14.172
<v Speaker 1>was okay.

0:17:14.893 --> 0:17:18.053
<v Speaker 2>Now, the fourth trimester looked a bit different for this family,

0:17:18.292 --> 0:17:21.613
<v Speaker 2>but one thing's for sure, Baby Lily had no shortage

0:17:21.653 --> 0:17:23.093
<v Speaker 2>of love and nutrition.

0:17:23.572 --> 0:17:27.453
<v Speaker 1>I also induced blactation, so I was able to feed Lily.

0:17:27.733 --> 0:17:31.293
<v Speaker 1>So that was something that was really special. That also

0:17:31.373 --> 0:17:34.332
<v Speaker 1>happened posts you know, just after the birth. So after

0:17:34.573 --> 0:17:38.693
<v Speaker 1>the handover, I got to feed Lily, and that then

0:17:38.773 --> 0:17:42.173
<v Speaker 1>makes me feel part of then growing her. You know,

0:17:42.253 --> 0:17:44.653
<v Speaker 1>jewels grow her to nine months, and I got to

0:17:44.693 --> 0:17:48.613
<v Speaker 1>grow her afterwards. So it's a really special thing to

0:17:48.653 --> 0:17:51.853
<v Speaker 1>be able to do that. And Jewels also pumped milk

0:17:51.933 --> 0:17:54.293
<v Speaker 1>for us to help, So really the two of us

0:17:54.293 --> 0:18:02.573
<v Speaker 1>grew her, you know, for the first few months. You know,

0:18:02.613 --> 0:18:07.052
<v Speaker 1>I'm eternally grateful that Jewels gave up years really of

0:18:07.133 --> 0:18:12.173
<v Speaker 1>her life, control of her poor body. And yeah, and

0:18:12.213 --> 0:18:14.933
<v Speaker 1>we've got this beautiful little girl now to celebrate.

0:18:19.093 --> 0:18:21.773
<v Speaker 2>Here on Diary of a Birth, lucky enough to have

0:18:21.893 --> 0:18:25.733
<v Speaker 2>the wisdom of Australia's favorite pediatrician, doctor Gollie, to give

0:18:25.773 --> 0:18:29.853
<v Speaker 2>us some insight into some of our burning medical questions. Now,

0:18:29.893 --> 0:18:32.613
<v Speaker 2>what I really wanted to know is how does inducing

0:18:32.693 --> 0:18:36.093
<v Speaker 2>lactation work? And can anyone do it?

0:18:36.093 --> 0:18:39.493
<v Speaker 4>It's a really fascinating question. The answer is yes, it

0:18:39.573 --> 0:18:42.572
<v Speaker 4>is possible. It's not particularly easy. You know, there's a

0:18:42.573 --> 0:18:46.092
<v Speaker 4>certain cascade of hormone changes, body changes that happen throughout

0:18:46.133 --> 0:18:52.532
<v Speaker 4>pregnancy that set the scene for breastfeeding and breast milk production. Ultimately,

0:18:53.373 --> 0:18:55.373
<v Speaker 4>what you need to make breast milk is you need

0:18:55.413 --> 0:18:59.493
<v Speaker 4>three things. You need stimulation, which means baby sucking on

0:19:00.213 --> 0:19:04.532
<v Speaker 4>nipple or a breast pump providing that stimulation. You need

0:19:05.053 --> 0:19:10.292
<v Speaker 4>the lactating woman to have good hydration, so you need

0:19:10.333 --> 0:19:12.973
<v Speaker 4>to drink lots of water, and you also need to sleep,

0:19:13.093 --> 0:19:17.453
<v Speaker 4>so sleep water stimulation equals breast milk. Now, you don't

0:19:17.493 --> 0:19:21.213
<v Speaker 4>actually need that cascade of pregnancy and delivery in order

0:19:21.253 --> 0:19:25.653
<v Speaker 4>to create breast milk. You can actually stimulate someone to

0:19:26.733 --> 0:19:32.373
<v Speaker 4>make milk just simply by stimulating the nipple. So technically,

0:19:32.853 --> 0:19:34.852
<v Speaker 4>and it's not something I recommend for anyone to do,

0:19:34.933 --> 0:19:38.773
<v Speaker 4>but technically, if you sucked on someone's nipple enough, they

0:19:38.813 --> 0:19:40.693
<v Speaker 4>would eventually lactate.

0:19:41.493 --> 0:19:46.013
<v Speaker 2>Witnessing that magical moment when a surrogate hands over the baby,

0:19:46.533 --> 0:19:48.092
<v Speaker 2>it's hard to put into words.

0:19:48.973 --> 0:19:55.253
<v Speaker 4>I don't know that there is a more beautiful, noble, altruistic,

0:19:55.453 --> 0:19:59.213
<v Speaker 4>and magnanimous act on the planet. I just can't think

0:19:59.253 --> 0:20:03.173
<v Speaker 4>of one. It blows my mind. I get so emotional

0:20:03.373 --> 0:20:07.733
<v Speaker 4>every time I'm involved in one of these incredible cases

0:20:08.253 --> 0:20:11.773
<v Speaker 4>because I know how challenging pregnancy can be. I know

0:20:12.413 --> 0:20:18.133
<v Speaker 4>how challenging childbirth is, and for someone to voluntarily put

0:20:18.173 --> 0:20:22.293
<v Speaker 4>themselves through that, they're family through that, their partner, their

0:20:22.293 --> 0:20:25.053
<v Speaker 4>own children, if that's the case, in order to give

0:20:25.053 --> 0:20:27.532
<v Speaker 4>the gift of life and the gift of family to

0:20:27.613 --> 0:20:33.493
<v Speaker 4>another person, sometimes a stranger, it completely blows my mind,

0:20:33.613 --> 0:20:36.613
<v Speaker 4>and for me, it doesn't matter if there's any money exchanged.

0:20:36.773 --> 0:20:40.933
<v Speaker 4>It's just absolutely phenomenal. I can't find the words to

0:20:40.973 --> 0:20:44.693
<v Speaker 4>describe how much I'm speechless when I talk about it.

0:20:45.133 --> 0:20:50.052
<v Speaker 4>So the moment that a child is born and the

0:20:50.133 --> 0:20:55.092
<v Speaker 4>surrogate or obstetrician, pediatrician, whomever it may be, hands that

0:20:55.213 --> 0:21:00.653
<v Speaker 4>baby to the expectant parents, it really is very, very

0:21:00.773 --> 0:21:03.973
<v Speaker 4>very difficult to describe. It's a kind of magic that

0:21:05.333 --> 0:21:08.052
<v Speaker 4>you feel really privileged to be able to witness that.

0:21:08.333 --> 0:21:12.933
<v Speaker 4>And then I hear a lot from the carrying mothers

0:21:13.013 --> 0:21:16.292
<v Speaker 4>that that comment like you've heard like you do it

0:21:16.373 --> 0:21:18.373
<v Speaker 4>for that moment. You do it for the moment where

0:21:18.413 --> 0:21:21.933
<v Speaker 4>you hand the child over and you can see this

0:21:22.253 --> 0:21:26.253
<v Speaker 4>couple or this individual that has usually come to this

0:21:26.373 --> 0:21:31.052
<v Speaker 4>point with so many years of trauma, heartache, pregnancy loss,

0:21:31.653 --> 0:21:34.693
<v Speaker 4>fertility struggles, and to get to that point where they

0:21:34.733 --> 0:21:37.852
<v Speaker 4>are holding their own child. It's special. To say the

0:21:37.973 --> 0:21:38.973
<v Speaker 4>very very least.

0:21:42.493 --> 0:21:44.933
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for joining us on Diary of a Birth,

0:21:45.013 --> 0:21:47.613
<v Speaker 2>where we celebrate all the amazing ways that we as

0:21:47.613 --> 0:21:49.373
<v Speaker 2>women bring life into the world.

0:21:49.853 --> 0:21:51.333
<v Speaker 1>If you'd like to share your birth.

0:21:51.093 --> 0:21:53.973
<v Speaker 2>Story with us, we'd love to hear from you. Details

0:21:54.013 --> 0:21:56.893
<v Speaker 2>are in the show notes. Diary of a Birth was

0:21:56.933 --> 0:22:00.973
<v Speaker 2>hosted by me Cassenia Lukige, with expert input fromp Doctor Golly.

0:22:01.373 --> 0:22:04.693
<v Speaker 2>This episode was produced by Tom Lyon and myself Cassane Lukage,

0:22:04.773 --> 0:22:06.933
<v Speaker 2>with audio production by Scott Stronik,