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Speaker 1: You're listening to a mom of mere podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hey own table Strano. This is My Mummy is twice

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Speaker 2: daily news podcast for Quickie. Should we really be sending

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Speaker 2: kids to jail? Leaving them to grow up behind bars?

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Speaker 2: Victoria's government has proposed letting cords hand down adult sentences

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Speaker 2: to kids as young as fourteen, including up to life

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Speaker 2: in prison. But it's not just Victoria. Across Australia, the

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Speaker 2: way we deal with youth crime varies widely. Advocates say

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Speaker 2: no one is truly getting it right. Plus a debate

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Speaker 2: that has parents outraged, maybe more than incarcerating children kids beauty.

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Speaker 2: This should I let my kids use makeup and skincare

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Speaker 2: debate is back in the headlines with a team launching

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Speaker 2: their makeup brand into a major retailer, and actor j

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Speaker 2: Mitchell unveiling plans for her child focused skincare line. Look,

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Speaker 2: everyone has a take, but what does the science actually say?

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Speaker 2: Before we get there? He is Clam Murphy with the

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Speaker 2: latest from the Vicking News room, four Thursday November thirteen.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Taylor. The Liberals are preparing to unveil their new

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Speaker 3: climate change and energy policy after a marathon meeting of

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Speaker 3: MPs and senators in Canberra yesterday. The party's shadow cabinet

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Speaker 3: will convene this morning to finalize its approach to reducing

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Speaker 3: carbon emissions, with an announcement expected shortly after. The decision

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Speaker 3: follows hours long talks between all fifty one Liberal MPs

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Speaker 3: and senators, where, according to people in the room, a

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Speaker 3: majority of party members spoke in favor of ditching Australia's

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Speaker 3: goal of net zero emissions by twenty fifty. A new

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Speaker 3: batch of email correspondence from convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 3: suggests that President Donald Trump knew about the abuse of

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Speaker 3: his young victims. The US Democrats released the emails overnight.

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Speaker 3: In one, Epstein wrote to author Michael Wolfe discussing a

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Speaker 3: victim and Trump's golf course and resort, mare Lago. In it,

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Speaker 3: he says Trump had asked him to resign, but goes

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Speaker 3: on to say he was never a member at the club,

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Speaker 3: but says, of course he meaning true Trump knew about

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Speaker 3: the girls, as he'd ask Glaine, referring to his ex

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Speaker 3: girlfriend and convicted child sex trafficker Gallaine Maxwell to stop.

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Speaker 3: In another email, this time to Gallaine Maxwell, Epstein says

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Speaker 3: that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump, and that

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Speaker 3: the President had spent hours with a victim at his house.

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Speaker 3: Trump has always denied having any knowledge of Epstein's sex

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Speaker 3: trafficking activities. There are now renewed calls for the full

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Speaker 3: Epstein files to be released, as Trump spokesperson Caroline Leavitt

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Speaker 3: accused the Democrats of leaking selective emails to create a

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Speaker 3: fake narrative to smear President Trump. Another push to change

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Speaker 3: South Australia's abortion laws has been voted down in the

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Speaker 3: Upper House. Former One Nation MP and now Independent Sarah

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Speaker 3: Game introduced legislation that would limit terminations after twenty three

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Speaker 3: weeks to where there was a significant risk of fetal

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Speaker 3: abnormalities or to save the life of the mother or

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Speaker 3: another fetus only. The law currently allows terminations after twenty

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Speaker 3: three weeks if the pregnancy is a significant risk to

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Speaker 3: the mother's physical or moas mental health with approval from

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Speaker 3: two doctors. The new legislation would not accept mental health

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Speaker 3: as a reason for a later term abortion, and that

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Speaker 3: those in severe mental distress would instead receive care under

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Speaker 3: the Mental Health Act. The legislation was voted down eleven

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Speaker 3: to eight. Independent MLC Tammy Franks, saying the legislation doesn't

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Speaker 3: stop abortion, it just makes it unsafe. A crowd of

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Speaker 3: three hundred and seventy four bagpipers in Melbourne's Federation Square

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Speaker 3: have smashed a bagpiping world record in honor of Ossie

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Speaker 3: band ac DC. The piping world record had been held

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Speaker 3: by a crowd of three hundred and thirty three pipers

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Speaker 3: in the Bulgarian capital of Sophia since twenty twelve, but

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Speaker 3: that record was blown away last night with a mass

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Speaker 3: rendition of It's a long Way to the Top if

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Speaker 3: you want a rock and roll. The pipers were surrounded

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Speaker 3: by a crowd of thousands packed into Federation Square to

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Speaker 3: witness the world record attempt. Just meet Us away from

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Speaker 3: where the iconic band filmed the classic music video for

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Speaker 3: the song on Swanston Street. The video followed ac DC

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Speaker 3: as they performed on the back of a flatbaged truck

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Speaker 3: alongside three members of the Rats of Terbrook pipe Band.

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Speaker 3: One of those pipers is eighty year old Les Kenfield,

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Speaker 3: who was on hand to help break the world record

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Speaker 3: half a century later.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Claire Next, unpacking Australia's response to youth crime, You've

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Speaker 2: probably heard this phrase.

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Speaker 4: Before adult crime, adult time.

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Speaker 2: It's the slogan that took the Liberal National Party all

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Speaker 2: the way to victory at the last Queensland state election.

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Speaker 2: They promised to mark more than thirty youth crimes as

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Speaker 2: serious offenses, meaning those who commit them could face adult

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Speaker 2: prison sentences. They've actually just added more crimes to that

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Speaker 2: list earlier in twenty twenty five. Now, with the state

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Speaker 2: of Victoria crushing under the weight of increased youth crime,

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Speaker 2: the state Labor government is introducing something akin to that

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Speaker 2: of what Queensland has going on. Yesterday, premierg Justin to

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Speaker 2: Allen introduced her government's eerily similar proposal, adult time for

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Speaker 2: violent crime. Under the new crackdown, children aged fourteen and

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Speaker 2: over who commit violent offenses will face adult jail time.

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Speaker 2: Designed to target the recent surge in violent youth offenses,

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Speaker 2: it outlines changes to the law around how young offenders

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Speaker 2: are dealt with. So, for example, if a fourteen year

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Speaker 2: old commits certain serious offenses think home invasion, aggravated burglary, carjacking,

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Speaker 2: or grossly violent assault, they'll no longer front children's court,

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Speaker 2: instead heading straight to county court, where judges could hand

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Speaker 2: down adult type jail sentences up to life. Under the

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Speaker 2: proposed changes, the concept of jail as a last resort

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Speaker 2: for children will be removed, and judges will also be

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Speaker 2: asked to prioritize community safety when handing down sentences to children.

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Speaker 2: Victoria Police report that kids now account for over one

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Speaker 2: intent offenders processed, while most young offenders are still diverted

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Speaker 2: away from jail. Officials say c sixty percent of robberies,

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Speaker 2: almost half of all aggravated burglaries, and a quarter of

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Speaker 2: karthevs are now committed by children. The premier says the

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Speaker 2: changes are promising a safer community and deterring violent youth crime.

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Speaker 5: We know that children as parents, we know that children

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Speaker 5: need to face consequences when they do the wrong thing,

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Speaker 5: and so consequences also must apply in the justice system.

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Speaker 5: There are too many victims and not enough consequences, but.

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Speaker 2: Not everyone's on board. Legal and youth justice experts argue

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Speaker 2: that jailing teens as adults can make things worse. Human

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Speaker 2: Rights Law Center Associate Legal Director Monique Hurley says the

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Speaker 2: proposed new laws are a cheap attempt at political point scoring.

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Speaker 6: If Premier Justinto Allen really cared about children and community safety.

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Speaker 6: She would be urgently investing in the supports that help

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Speaker 6: children avoid contact with the criminal legal system in the

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Speaker 6: first place. Prisons are really brutal places, absent the supports

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Speaker 6: that help people get their lives back on track, and

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Speaker 6: jailing children in particular causes immense and irreparable harm. It

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Speaker 6: tears apart families and communities and destroys people's lives. The

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Speaker 6: Alan government should really be doing everything within their power

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Speaker 6: to avoid children having contact with prisons in the first place.

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Speaker 2: She also notes that First Nations children will be disproportionately

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Speaker 2: affected by the proposed changes.

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Speaker 6: It's really hard to understand how on one day the

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Speaker 6: Alan government can be in Parliament passing treaty and the

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Speaker 6: next day they can be proposing laws like these that

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Speaker 6: will only really serve to exacerbate the mass imprisonment of

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Speaker 6: Aboriginal ontorres Strait Islander children and destroy children's lives.

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Speaker 2: But it's not just Victoria and Queensland. Australia has one

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Speaker 2: of the lowest ages of criminal responsibility in the world.

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Speaker 2: Kids as young as ten can be arrested, charged and

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Speaker 2: jailed across most states. The Act recently upped the age

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Speaker 2: to fourteen for most offenses, while Tasmania is looking to

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Speaker 2: up THEIRS from ten to fourteen, but not until twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty nine. The Northern Territory actually did up the age

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Speaker 2: of criminal responsibility from ten to twelve, but a change

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Speaker 2: in government meant the decision was reversed back in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three. In both South and Western Australia, the age

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Speaker 2: remains at ten. The United Nations says fourteen should be

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Speaker 2: the minimum, no exceptions. Australia, though, is bucking the trend

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Speaker 2: and facing the criticism. So who's this really?

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Speaker 6: Four?

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Speaker 2: Supporters argue it'll protect communities and give consequences where soft

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Speaker 2: habits haven't worked. Experts, on the other hand, say the

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Speaker 2: long term cost is devastating, with Indigenous kids and disadvantage

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Speaker 2: youth caught in the net far more than anyone else.

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Speaker 2: Many says the solution is and always has been building

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Speaker 2: up community support for at risk youth.

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Speaker 6: So instead of pouring money into prisons and policing, the

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Speaker 6: Alan government should be supporting the services that we know

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Speaker 6: divert children away from the criminal legal system and acting

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Speaker 6: really bravely, boldly and doing this rather than pressing head

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Speaker 6: with a reform agenda. That is only going to harm

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Speaker 6: more and more children.

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Speaker 2: At a time when Victoria is proposing tightening laws to

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Speaker 2: treat kids more like adults in the justice system. Another

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Speaker 2: conversation is unfolding online about children being drawn into the

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Speaker 2: world of skin care and beauty. If you've opened up

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Speaker 2: TikTok or Instagram lately, you've probably seen the latest wave

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Speaker 2: of backlash over children and skincare products. This week, the

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Speaker 2: age old debate about whether we should let our kids

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Speaker 2: tral through our cosmetics bag is being driven by two

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Speaker 2: stories in particular. Firstly, fifteen year old youtubeer's solesh Matter

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Speaker 2: launching her teen folks his skincare brand Sincerely Yours into

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Speaker 2: Sephora stores across the US. Reports say eighty thousand of

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Speaker 2: her fans attended the opening, some as young as eight,

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Speaker 2: waiting to take home their swag bag hall of skincare. Secondly,

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Speaker 2: Pretty Little Lyester Shane Mitchell announced her Cave beauty for

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Speaker 2: kids brand. Rinni Shae says the idea for her new

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Speaker 2: business venture was born out of watching her own children

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Speaker 2: wanting to get involved in her beauty rituals at home.

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Speaker 7: They are always wanting to do the things that mommy's doing.

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Speaker 7: And then you know, Atlas in one day was kind

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Speaker 7: of like, wait, where's mine? And I tried to find

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Speaker 7: her sheet mask online? And the ingredients in these masks

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Speaker 7: are crazy.

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Speaker 2: So why the uproar? Well, Parents, dermatologists and commenters are

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Speaker 2: arguing about whether any of these products are necessary for

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Speaker 2: kids whose skin has never seen a wrinkle or a pimple. Look,

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Speaker 2: this isn't the first time we've seen this argument. Let

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Speaker 2: us not forget the mass panic of tweens in Sephora

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Speaker 2: and and sacking all of the drunk Elephant products of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. But still the debate rages on what

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Speaker 2: and when do we start letting kids play with skincare

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Speaker 2: and makeup? And should we really be that concerned about

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Speaker 2: what's going on in another person's bathroom? Beauty Cabinet Beauty

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Speaker 2: editor Justine Cullen told our You Beauty podcast, when it

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Speaker 2: comes to kids, skincare and makeup, we're all worried about

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Speaker 2: the wrong thing.

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Speaker 4: I think the pearl clutching needs to be about how

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Speaker 4: are we setting our children up on a path of capitalism,

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Speaker 4: on a purchasing path from such a young age. We

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Speaker 4: are essentially sort of soft onboarding them into a world

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Speaker 4: where they can just be marketed to constantly.

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Speaker 7: That is a worry.

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Speaker 4: It's like girlhood used to be. It was a phase

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Speaker 4: of life. It was probably the most important phase in

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Speaker 4: setting up who you were going to be. And now

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Speaker 4: girlhood is just a marketing demographic and I think that

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Speaker 4: that's pretty scary.

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Speaker 2: Cosmetic chemist doctor Michelle Wong has created an online community

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Speaker 2: to help demistify ingredient lists and debunk beauty myths the

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Speaker 2: world over. Michelle, this debate, I feel like has raged

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Speaker 2: on for so long. Now should parents let their kids

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Speaker 2: get involved in skincare and makeup? But now actor che

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Speaker 2: Mitchell has entered the chat with her new face mask line.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that it's different when a celebrity gets

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Speaker 2: involved in these kind of discussions?

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Speaker 4: Not really.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, most skin care products, they are probably fine for

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Speaker 1: kids skin. It's not massive like physical risk. There are

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Speaker 1: possibly allergies, there's possible irritations. So with masks they can

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Speaker 1: trap stuff underneath and they can make the skin barry

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Speaker 1: more permeable, more stuff can get in. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, I think the big risk is

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Speaker 1: really psychological rather than anything physical. I think it's really

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Speaker 1: encouraging kids to get into beauty culture, get into questioning

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Speaker 1: their own appearance and judging their self worth by their

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Speaker 1: appearance really early. And honestly, I don't know if this

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Speaker 1: one skincare is going to make that much of a

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Speaker 1: difference given everything else that's pushing young kids towards it,

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Speaker 1: like all this stuff, toddler beauty pageants, watching their mum

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Speaker 1: put on tons of skincare, watching their dad not put

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Speaker 1: on any skincare, watching how people react to how different

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Speaker 1: women look like. I think, yeah, it's a bigger conversation

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Speaker 1: than just the skincare line, but it does kind of

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Speaker 1: exemplify the issue.

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Speaker 2: So what's actually in these products from Shane Mitchell, then

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Speaker 2: what's she actually selling to us?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the stuff inside these masks, they're generally just

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Speaker 1: hydrating ingredients, things like glycerine, beata, glue, can alan tom

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Speaker 1: which is soothings. So these are ingredients that you normally

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Speaker 1: find in like hydrating products for adults. Things like yeah,

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Speaker 1: general sheet masks, nothing super active, nothing that's going to

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Speaker 1: really be too irritating, apart from the fact that having

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Speaker 1: too much moisture can be irritating on its own. Sort

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Speaker 1: of like when you go into the shower and like,

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Speaker 1: if you have a band aid on and part of

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Speaker 1: your skin stays wet, then it starts getting irritated. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not really anything bad as let's say the drunk

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Speaker 1: elephant stuff. There's no chemical exfoliance as far as I

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Speaker 1: can see, does look very pretty gentle. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, I think if you are looking for skincare

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Speaker 1: for your kids, like, there's so many options out there

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Speaker 1: that are perfectly fine as well all the boring brands.

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Speaker 1: So when you have a mask, you have that solid

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Speaker 1: layer and it keeps your skin quite hydrated, which makes

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Speaker 1: your skin arry more permeable, which is good if you're

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Speaker 1: trying to get more actives into your skin. But if

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Speaker 1: you have a kid and they're putting it on their

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Speaker 1: face for way too long, which is quite possible because kids,

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Speaker 1: again they don't really know how to monitor their own skin,

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Speaker 1: that's probably a bit riskier than just having a normal moisturizer.

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Speaker 2: So it's almost like parents have to play the role

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Speaker 2: a little bit of becoming a scientist or a cosmetic

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Speaker 2: chemist at this point. They need to know what ingredients

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Speaker 2: actually are and do as opposed to what they claim

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Speaker 2: maybe on the package. Are there some blanket ingredients that

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Speaker 2: you would say are probably just no goes for anybody

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Speaker 2: under a certain age.

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Speaker 1: I'd say, unless there's problems like acne, probably avoid any

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Speaker 1: active ingredient. It is like chemicals, folio so glycolic acid,

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Speaker 1: lactic acid, salicilic acid, generally anything with the word acid,

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Speaker 1: it's probably pretty safe to avoid. Also, things like vitamin

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Speaker 1: A that can be quite irritating. I think in general,

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Speaker 1: if you're looking for a products for kids, any sunscreen

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Speaker 1: is good, general moisturizers and general cleanses. Just nothing that

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Speaker 1: seems to be claiming to be doing too much.

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Speaker 2: And then I guess, finally, for you, Michelle, when is

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Speaker 2: the right time? I know that you can't answer this

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Speaker 2: with a definitive number, but realistically or conceptually, maybe when

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Speaker 2: is the right time to start introducing things like skincare

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Speaker 2: for your tweens or your teens, maybe even your toddler's

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Speaker 2: a playing around with mum's makeup. When's the right time

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Speaker 2: to start that conversation?

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Speaker 1: I think, honestly, having that conversation is probably good as

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Speaker 1: early as possible, just like not even conversations about skincare,

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Speaker 1: say just conversations about like trying to get your kids

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Speaker 1: a better relationship with how they look what they see

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Speaker 1: in the mirror, because the moment they go on the internet,

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Speaker 1: the moment they start talking to their friends who are

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Speaker 1: going on the internet, the dam's open. Even if they

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Speaker 1: start seeing magazines, if they start watching TV. This stuff

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Speaker 1: is super pervasive in our culture. There isn't really a

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Speaker 1: good way of shielding them from it. So I think

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Speaker 1: once you start encountering it, being able to guide them

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Speaker 1: through the process of thinking, is this something that's healthy

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Speaker 1: for me mentally and physically? Is this something that's actually

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Speaker 1: good for me? Or am I being convinced by things

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Speaker 1: outside of myself? Am I being unduly persuaded by messages

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Speaker 1: that do not apply to me? For example? But in general,

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Speaker 1: if we're talking about when the right time is to

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Speaker 1: introduce skin care, I would say if there are skin problems,

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Speaker 1: for example, exma is really common with kids. Also for

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Speaker 1: sun projection, obviously, sunburns below the age of eighteen are

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Speaker 1: more strongly linked to cancer than after the age of

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Speaker 1: eighteen because cells are still developing, and obviously if you're

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Speaker 1: wearing sunscreen, you want to be able to clean it off.

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Speaker 1: And also when kids are starting to get acne, usually

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Speaker 1: around their teens or tweens, then they probably want to

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Speaker 1: look forward or some products that do have active ingredients,

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Speaker 1: and there are things like salfulic acid and benzyl peroxide

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Speaker 1: that work really well.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for taking some time to feed your

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Speaker 2: mind with us today. The Quickie is produced by me

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Speaker 2: Taylor Strano, Ilaria Brophy, and Claire Murphy, with audio production

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Speaker 2: by Lou Hill.

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Speaker 3: Muma MEA acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 3: that this podcast is recorded on