WEBVTT - INBOX: 'Fun Facts' And Five-Year Plans: Tackling Tricky Work Questions

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Amma mea podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to Biz in Box. I'm M Burnham

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<v Speaker 2>and today I am thrilled to be joined by an

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<v Speaker 2>absolute powerhouse in the entrepreneur world, Sarah Davidson. Sarah, thank

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<v Speaker 2>you so much for coming on today. I am very

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<v Speaker 2>very excited.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh and thank you for having me. I am equally

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<v Speaker 1>as excited. And I feel like there's a mutual fangirling

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<v Speaker 1>going on right now.

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<v Speaker 2>There is absolutely no way this is mutual because your

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<v Speaker 2>career compared to mine, Like, we just need to break

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<v Speaker 2>this down because you will definitely know Sarah from her

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<v Speaker 2>brilliant podcast Sees the Ya. But what's truly fascinating is

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<v Speaker 2>how she completely transformed her live, swapping her career as

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<v Speaker 2>a corporate lawyer to become the founder of her own

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<v Speaker 2>widely successful retail brand and emerging as one of Australia's

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<v Speaker 2>most in a Win Your Voices in entrepreneurship, Sarah is

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<v Speaker 2>here to share some wisdom about embracing the unexpected and

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<v Speaker 2>how sometimes having no plan can actually turn out to

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<v Speaker 2>be the blest plan of all. Like, I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>everyone always forgets you used to be in corporate law.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, even I forget sometimes until we get an opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>like this. You know, when someone else reads your bio,

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<v Speaker 1>it just has this extra like nice panache. Then like

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<v Speaker 1>when you say it yourself and it's like, who is

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<v Speaker 1>that that they're talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think anyone's ever read my bio. Mine would

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<v Speaker 2>be like and Burnham. She sometimes likes to work, she

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes doesn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Here she is good lurker. I'll endorse you for the lurking.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a great skill, you know, in this day and age. Lurking, Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>is pervy, so bit pervy. I call it thorough, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>ok yeah, yeah, the marketing spin for every skill you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd call that thorough. Good researcher, attention to detail.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, these are the mean on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Put your best foot forward.

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<v Speaker 2>This is smart. I'm writing this down already, like this

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<v Speaker 2>is exactly what we need in these viz Inbox episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>It's our very own ask us anything so you can

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<v Speaker 2>get all of your career advice without your boss or

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<v Speaker 2>colleagues ever finding out. If you don't want them to,

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<v Speaker 2>we will keep you completely anonymous.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness, I mean m I have wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>call in many times. So the fact that I get

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<v Speaker 1>to be here. It is so exciting. And this week

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be sharing how to make those dreaded tell us

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<v Speaker 1>a fun fact about yourself moments actually fun. Plus, we

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<v Speaker 1>will tackle a big dilemma about career pivots. But first

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<v Speaker 1>let's chat about those tricky job interview questions that always

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<v Speaker 1>make you second gets yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yes, these questions are very, very heated for me

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<v Speaker 2>because I have no idea what to do with this.

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<v Speaker 2>So we got this cent on our DMS by Charlie

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<v Speaker 2>and she says, I keep getting asked where do you

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<v Speaker 2>see yourself in five years in interviews, and honestly I

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<v Speaker 2>never tell the truth because, like most people my age,

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<v Speaker 2>I probably won't be at the company for that long.

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<v Speaker 2>What are recruiters really looking for with this question? Are

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<v Speaker 2>they checking if I'm ambitious enough on want management, trying

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<v Speaker 2>to show their care about my career journey, or just

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<v Speaker 2>testing if I can politely feb about my commitment. It

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<v Speaker 2>feels so outdated for twenty twenty five. How should I

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<v Speaker 2>handle these predictable questions without sounding fake? I never know

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<v Speaker 2>how to answer this question.

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<v Speaker 1>Ever, I love this question because I think it is

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<v Speaker 1>so well I don't love the question from recruiters, but

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<v Speaker 1>I love the question in the DMS because I think

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<v Speaker 1>so many people wonder that these days, like how do

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<v Speaker 1>you gently yeah, feb about your level of commitment? And

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<v Speaker 1>I think you're right. I think it is a bit

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<v Speaker 1>outdated for this day and age to sort of ask

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<v Speaker 1>about the five year plan, because not everyone necessarily has one,

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<v Speaker 1>and the world changes so rapidly. We're meant to have

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<v Speaker 1>sort of twelve to fifteen careers in our lifetime now.

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<v Speaker 1>It is kind of an outdated question, but I think

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<v Speaker 1>most recruiters are aware of that rapid pace of careers.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think they expect you to say, look, in

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<v Speaker 1>five years, I probably will have moved on. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think they want that level of honesty from you, But

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<v Speaker 1>I think it is possible to answer authentically and acknowledge

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<v Speaker 1>that your five year plan is uncertain, but also show

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<v Speaker 1>commitment at the same time. I think they're not necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>looking for someone who will last twenty five years, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're looking for someone who can show they have ambition

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<v Speaker 1>right now and that they can have commitment right now.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think it still pays to show that you've

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<v Speaker 1>researched the company and have got a list of ways

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<v Speaker 1>you could grow within their company and within the advertised role.

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<v Speaker 1>You can still show that you have long term goals

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<v Speaker 1>that align with the business and why you'd make a

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<v Speaker 1>valuable contribution. I think you can do that without saying

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to be here in fifty years time. I

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<v Speaker 1>think there is a nice middle ground without life and

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<v Speaker 1>feeling fake.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, this landed in our DMS recently, and it's an anonymous question,

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<v Speaker 2>which is my favorite one because they're extra juicy, And

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<v Speaker 2>it says I've been working in corporate finance for seven

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<v Speaker 2>years and while I'm good at it, I'm completely unfulfilled.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been studying part time to become a clinical psychologist.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh but for you, it's something I've always been passionate about.

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<v Speaker 2>But the thought of leaving my secure six figure job

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<v Speaker 2>for years of additional training and starting over terrifies me.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you know it's the right time to make

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<v Speaker 2>the leap? What duck should I have lined up? And

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<v Speaker 2>what advice would you give someone standing at the edge

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<v Speaker 2>of a major career pivot that feels meaningful but incredibly risky.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh this is a good one. I love this. I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like you're perfectly suited to answer this question.

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely remember being at that crossroads, and this point

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<v Speaker 1>in time is my favorite time to encounter someone and

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<v Speaker 1>to get to chat to them, because I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>it is it's a real pivotal time. You can either

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<v Speaker 1>go towards the risk or you could easily shy away

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<v Speaker 1>from it. And I think obviously we all have a

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<v Speaker 1>really different risk tolerance and the most important thing to

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<v Speaker 1>remember is that the right time is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>different for everyone. Like, as much as I want to say,

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<v Speaker 1>leave your job, take the leap, I think you do

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<v Speaker 1>have to have a really honest evaluation of what your

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<v Speaker 1>risk matrix looks like. So when I left, I had

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<v Speaker 1>no mortgage, I had no kids. Sure it was risky

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<v Speaker 1>to walk away from my legal career, but overall my

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<v Speaker 1>commitments were pretty you know, I could minimize the risk

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<v Speaker 1>quite a lot. And my best advice is minimize the

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<v Speaker 1>risk as much as you can so the leap is

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<v Speaker 1>as small as possible. So you know, if you do

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<v Speaker 1>have a side hustle, stay in it as long as

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<v Speaker 1>you can until you need to go full time. You

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<v Speaker 1>don't necessarily need to jump straight away on the flip side.

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<v Speaker 1>I think if you have looked at your financial position,

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<v Speaker 1>you do have some savings. Sure you might be leaving

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of security, or you might be leaving a

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<v Speaker 1>six figure job. But I make decisions based on future

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<v Speaker 1>regret management. What will future me regret more? Will they

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<v Speaker 1>regret trying and seeing or will they regret never taking

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<v Speaker 1>the chance and never knowing? And I think most of

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<v Speaker 1>us would rather try and see because you can always

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<v Speaker 1>go back. You forget that, you can always just go

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<v Speaker 1>back to where you were before. I think it's better to,

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<v Speaker 1>once you've yeah taken account of your responsibilities, give it

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<v Speaker 1>a go. You'll be so surprised what you can make

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<v Speaker 1>work and how much more capable you are than you think.

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<v Speaker 2>That is such an exciting answer. Also, to jump off

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<v Speaker 2>of that, do you think there's a such thing as

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<v Speaker 2>you're too old to change careers? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>My gosh, never, never, And I think there are I

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<v Speaker 1>can't think off the top of my head. But go

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<v Speaker 1>and google the people who started their careers sort of

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<v Speaker 1>later in their life sixties seventies. People who we know

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<v Speaker 1>of now is like the absolute leader and shining star

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<v Speaker 1>of the industries. A lot of them only came to

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<v Speaker 1>that industry later in life, which are just like I

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<v Speaker 1>think maybe Vira Wang was one of them. I think

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<v Speaker 1>she only started designing at forty or I can't think

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<v Speaker 1>of the list, but go and google it for reassurance

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<v Speaker 1>that it is never too late. And the quote I

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<v Speaker 1>always come back to is in ten years from now,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll wish you started today. So really like the sooner

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<v Speaker 1>you can start something that you know you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>want to have done the better, like hy waste a

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<v Speaker 1>moment wondering when you can, you can go and see.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think my other big thing that comes up

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<v Speaker 1>when I saw this question was when you are about

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<v Speaker 1>to make a leap, you're going to ask people for

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<v Speaker 1>advice because it's so scary, like you're going to obviously

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<v Speaker 1>leave a message in the inbox, but you might consult

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<v Speaker 1>the people around you ask the right people. When I

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<v Speaker 1>was leaving law, the exact wrong person to ask for

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<v Speaker 1>advice was other lawyers, because of course they think the

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<v Speaker 1>same as me. They've got the same risk aversion. The

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<v Speaker 1>people I had to ask was other business people who

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<v Speaker 1>had left their careers and seen how wonderful it could be.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew what answer I'd get from which friends of mine,

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<v Speaker 1>and I wanted to hear a yes, so I asked

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<v Speaker 1>the people who would give me a yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's so good. It's also one of those things

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<v Speaker 2>where if you're choosing between two different things, you flip

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<v Speaker 2>a coin for it, and depending on where the coin lands,

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<v Speaker 2>if it lands on heads but you wanted to land

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<v Speaker 2>on tails, then you have your answer. Like there's always

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<v Speaker 2>one side where you wanted to land a bit more,

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<v Speaker 2>and that gives you the answer. And I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>like such just such an exciting answer, Like I'm so

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<v Speaker 2>excited for this anonymous person, Like I think that's just

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<v Speaker 2>the perfect answer for them. And I'm really excited to

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<v Speaker 2>see you that career shift. And I really wish we

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<v Speaker 2>knew who you were so we could track you. But

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<v Speaker 2>that's just an exciting answer. I love stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so much fun. Okay, So I have been working

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<v Speaker 2>for seven years now and I still haven't worked out

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<v Speaker 2>the right answer for this one. So Sarah, this is

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<v Speaker 2>all on you to do. We got this question from

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<v Speaker 2>Melissa in Sydney and she says, I've just started a

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<v Speaker 2>new job and been asked to share a fun fact

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<v Speaker 2>about myself for the company newsletter. And I'm completely overthinking it.

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<v Speaker 2>Should these be work related or personal? How much of

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<v Speaker 2>my actual personality should I reveal? My previous workplace made

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<v Speaker 2>us share fun facts in person during meetings, where I

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<v Speaker 2>could at least laugh along and people got my delivery.

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<v Speaker 2>But a newsletter fun fact feels so permanent and might

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<v Speaker 2>come across completely wrong without my facial expressions to back

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<v Speaker 2>it up. What's the sweet pot? What's the sweet spot

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<v Speaker 2>for a fun fact that makes a good impression without

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<v Speaker 2>being too much? Now, I don't want to throw mom

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<v Speaker 2>and me a under the bus here, but we do this.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so funny. It's like we've done it since I

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<v Speaker 2>started here in like twenty eighteen, I think, but before

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<v Speaker 2>you joined the big company Slack channel and emails and

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<v Speaker 2>you see everyone they just announced like all the new

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<v Speaker 2>starters and they have like a little fun fact. And

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when I did. It was for the newsletter,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, wait, I just have to write

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<v Speaker 2>a fun fact that's going to go out to the

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<v Speaker 2>masses for people not knowing. I had no idea. Watch,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't remember what I wrote. I think I just

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<v Speaker 2>read something so dumb, like I have two dogs, like

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<v Speaker 2>something so silly. And then when I joined the company

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<v Speaker 2>and like I was reading everyone else's fun facts, it

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<v Speaker 2>would be something like, oh, I explored Europe for three

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<v Speaker 2>years and that's where I met my husband and I

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<v Speaker 2>had my kids, and I was like, oh my god, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>this is so embarrassing for me. I do not know

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<v Speaker 2>how to do this question. But now every time someone

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<v Speaker 2>does a silly fun fact that MoMA and Maya, I

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<v Speaker 2>am very excited for them.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. I mean, as a chronic oversharer who

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't worked in a corporate environment in a while, I

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<v Speaker 1>might not be the safest person to ask this question.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, Sarah, I reckon, you should just send

0:12:06.570 --> 0:12:09.410
<v Speaker 2>yourself a fun fact about yourself every day so you

0:12:09.530 --> 0:12:11.650
<v Speaker 2>know how traumatizing it is doing this.

0:12:11.770 --> 0:12:14.730
<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to circulate it internally to myself for

0:12:14.770 --> 0:12:19.410
<v Speaker 1>the full team to enjoy it. I mean, I may

0:12:19.450 --> 0:12:22.130
<v Speaker 1>be a bit skewed towards a higher level of fun

0:12:22.210 --> 0:12:26.570
<v Speaker 1>than the average workplace, but I think it definitely depends

0:12:26.690 --> 0:12:30.410
<v Speaker 1>on the environment you're going into the industry, the type

0:12:30.410 --> 0:12:32.250
<v Speaker 1>of office, Like you can probably get a bit of

0:12:32.290 --> 0:12:34.770
<v Speaker 1>a gauge from the role and the company that you're at.

0:12:35.250 --> 0:12:38.850
<v Speaker 1>What they're accepted level of fun would be. I definitely

0:12:38.850 --> 0:12:41.850
<v Speaker 1>would err on the side of caution, Like I think

0:12:41.850 --> 0:12:44.530
<v Speaker 1>the way this was worded the question if you're doubtful

0:12:44.570 --> 0:12:47.570
<v Speaker 1>that they'll understand it without your facial expressions as a backup,

0:12:47.690 --> 0:12:50.410
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't use that fun fact, Like, if you're wondering,

0:12:50.490 --> 0:12:54.010
<v Speaker 1>then probably just don't use it. I definitely go something

0:12:54.050 --> 0:12:57.050
<v Speaker 1>that you know, Yeah, don't risk it because you never

0:12:57.090 --> 0:12:59.610
<v Speaker 1>know who will see it. But I also think don't

0:12:59.650 --> 0:13:03.290
<v Speaker 1>go too safe either, because the point of it is

0:13:04.130 --> 0:13:07.290
<v Speaker 1>to start an interesting conversationation. It's to seek out the

0:13:07.370 --> 0:13:10.370
<v Speaker 1>other people in this company who you might not normally

0:13:10.490 --> 0:13:13.850
<v Speaker 1>get to meet, and it's your chance. It is kind

0:13:13.890 --> 0:13:16.210
<v Speaker 1>of a chance. You don't get that much airtime on

0:13:16.290 --> 0:13:19.930
<v Speaker 1>a mass group company slack, right, Like, you don't get

0:13:19.930 --> 0:13:22.730
<v Speaker 1>that many chances to say something interesting about yourself that

0:13:22.970 --> 0:13:26.370
<v Speaker 1>isn't your performance or your role. So I would probably

0:13:26.370 --> 0:13:29.809
<v Speaker 1>pick something non work related that is actually something interesting

0:13:29.810 --> 0:13:32.250
<v Speaker 1>about you. Like I would think about who are the

0:13:32.330 --> 0:13:33.850
<v Speaker 1>kind of people that you want to connect with in

0:13:33.930 --> 0:13:36.170
<v Speaker 1>your workplace and what are they going to find interesting?

0:13:36.810 --> 0:13:38.570
<v Speaker 1>Like what is going to make your time at this

0:13:38.610 --> 0:13:41.650
<v Speaker 1>company more enjoyable and it would be to find people

0:13:41.650 --> 0:13:43.929
<v Speaker 1>who have a common interest, So what's that common interest?

0:13:44.050 --> 0:13:47.250
<v Speaker 1>So I always answer based on what I want to

0:13:47.290 --> 0:13:50.770
<v Speaker 1>get out of someone potentially seeing, And like, there's so

0:13:50.810 --> 0:13:52.569
<v Speaker 1>many facts I can think about if things that I've

0:13:52.610 --> 0:13:55.490
<v Speaker 1>done that would never come up in the workplace, but

0:13:55.610 --> 0:13:57.410
<v Speaker 1>I would love other people to know that I've done,

0:13:57.530 --> 0:14:01.530
<v Speaker 1>like you know, volunteering opportunities, or I love languages and travel,

0:14:01.610 --> 0:14:03.530
<v Speaker 1>so I'd want to find other people who love that.

0:14:03.850 --> 0:14:06.490
<v Speaker 1>Or I'd want to find people in the company who

0:14:06.530 --> 0:14:11.010
<v Speaker 1>if they thought about an international travel opportunity, they went, oh, well,

0:14:11.130 --> 0:14:13.689
<v Speaker 1>she mentioned that she speaks other languages, like that kind

0:14:13.730 --> 0:14:14.090
<v Speaker 1>of thing.

0:14:14.690 --> 0:14:17.449
<v Speaker 2>Smart, Oh my god. So you can use it as

0:14:17.450 --> 0:14:18.730
<v Speaker 2>a strategy.

0:14:18.650 --> 0:14:22.330
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and not too convoluted. But I think people are

0:14:22.330 --> 0:14:23.890
<v Speaker 1>going to read it anyway, so.

0:14:23.930 --> 0:14:26.290
<v Speaker 2>Much better than like my colleagues going, there's that girl

0:14:26.330 --> 0:14:28.890
<v Speaker 2>who loves those dogs. She loves her dogs so much,

0:14:28.970 --> 0:14:29.850
<v Speaker 2>she's got two of them.

0:14:30.250 --> 0:14:32.570
<v Speaker 1>I love dogs, unless you want to meet other dog lovers,

0:14:32.570 --> 0:14:34.490
<v Speaker 1>in which case it was the perfect answer. But I

0:14:34.490 --> 0:14:37.770
<v Speaker 1>think it can be a wasted opportunity to say something

0:14:37.810 --> 0:14:41.050
<v Speaker 1>interesting about yourself. Don't waste it, because that's probably the

0:14:41.090 --> 0:14:43.170
<v Speaker 1>only time the whole company will get to hear from you,

0:14:43.290 --> 0:14:45.570
<v Speaker 1>so say something interesting, be memorable.

0:14:46.650 --> 0:14:50.050
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for helping us clear the biz Inbox.

0:14:50.130 --> 0:14:52.290
<v Speaker 2>If you have a work question, please send it our way.

0:14:52.330 --> 0:14:54.770
<v Speaker 2>You will find a link to submit your questions in

0:14:54.810 --> 0:14:56.850
<v Speaker 2>the show notes. You can tell us your name or

0:14:56.890 --> 0:15:00.250
<v Speaker 2>you can remain completely anonymous. It is your choice.

0:15:00.330 --> 0:15:02.490
<v Speaker 1>And if you missed any of our episodes, just scroll

0:15:02.570 --> 0:15:04.610
<v Speaker 1>back in your feed. We'll be back in the biz

0:15:04.650 --> 0:15:05.730
<v Speaker 1>Inbox next week.

0:15:06.010 --> 0:15:20.010
<v Speaker 2>Bye bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land

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<v Speaker 2>and waters that this podcast is recorded on