Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA mea podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters. This podcast
Speaker 1: is recorded on online dating. We've all heard a story,
Speaker 1: good or bad. It's the way the world now. You
Speaker 1: log on, upload your best picks, think of a few
Speaker 1: witty pickup lines, and get swiping. And if you're lucky,
Speaker 1: you won't be swiping too long because the perfect person
Speaker 1: is right there at the tap of a button, without
Speaker 1: even having to leave the couch.
Speaker 2: There were gifts that were rocking up like I'd come
Speaker 2: home to, like long stem red roses, flowers glore. My
Speaker 2: unit at one time looked like a florist, and there
Speaker 2: were all these packages and everything showing up, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: he's like really invested, Like you know, this is actually
Speaker 2: a legitimate relationship.
Speaker 1: But how well can you really know someone before you've
Speaker 1: actually met them? How can you try everything they're telling
Speaker 1: you where they say they live, or their job is,
Speaker 1: or their intentions.
Speaker 2: I thought it would stop, but then a current affair
Speaker 2: called me and then I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: And I think that's when it had kind of really
Speaker 2: slapped me across the face that I was like, fuck,
Speaker 2: I've been scammed.
Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex
Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the
Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who lived them. The year
Speaker 1: was twenty ten when Kylie's story begins. At thirty years old.
Speaker 1: She had her life together, a great job, great friends.
Speaker 1: There was just one part she felt was missing.
Speaker 2: And I was at a point where all my friends
Speaker 2: were in relationships, popping out, babies, getting engaged, getting married,
Speaker 2: and I was the single pringle, and I was starting
Speaker 2: to think, well, what the hell was wrong with me?
Speaker 2: Like I had a good job, it was just like
Speaker 2: there was something missing, and it was just like, well,
Speaker 2: why have they got it and I don't. And it
Speaker 2: was at the point then that dating apps were like
Speaker 2: the new unspoken thing, Like people would never talk about
Speaker 2: getting on a dating app to meet someone. So I
Speaker 2: kind of didn't tell anyone that I'd signed up. And
Speaker 2: that was back in the day when Oasis was the
Speaker 2: bumble of its generation, and I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: it can't hurt, you know. I wasn't so much a
Speaker 2: shy person. It was just too busy to go and
Speaker 2: try and meet people in the old fashioned way of
Speaker 2: like the laundro matter on the bus or the train,
Speaker 2: or the cliches they give in the movies. So I
Speaker 2: thought I'd give online dating or try and see what
Speaker 2: this whole new thing was in terms of dating and
Speaker 2: meeting people.
Speaker 1: So ont oasis she went. She set up a profile,
Speaker 1: added some photos and throw caution to the wind.
Speaker 2: It was kind of like feeling in a job application
Speaker 2: because it was all the questions I ask you and
Speaker 2: everything they want to know. It was like, okay, so
Speaker 2: put it out there and it would have been probably
Speaker 2: about three weeks and then that's when Liam and I connected.
Speaker 2: The photos were definitely what sucked me in because he
Speaker 2: was a good looking dude. It's like think of Channing Tater.
Speaker 2: The profile was very detail so it described about his job,
Speaker 2: that he was in the US Army but based in Australia.
Speaker 2: He had a daughter, he was a single father, he
Speaker 2: was looking to meet the love of his life, loved
Speaker 2: being outdoorsy, so all the things I looked for. Of
Speaker 2: course good looking as well, had a job. It just
Speaker 2: screamed out like to me. So I connected and sent
Speaker 2: a message going hey, how you would love to chat
Speaker 2: and didn't really think i'd get anything back because I
Speaker 2: was very skeptical about online dating. And next thing I know,
Speaker 2: there was a ping back.
Speaker 1: They started chatting, and Kylie immediately liked what she saw.
Speaker 2: He was on deployment in Afghanistan with the Army, looking
Speaker 2: to obviously chat to someone in the times where he
Speaker 2: wasn't doing active duties and like they're downtime basically. So
Speaker 2: it was more like, I have a lot of friends
Speaker 2: in the army, so I know how difficult it can
Speaker 2: be to be away from love one, so I kind
Speaker 2: of saw it as a way to fill in his
Speaker 2: time and just be someone that he could talk to
Speaker 2: and be out of what he was there for. He
Speaker 2: would be deployed for around six months to a year,
Speaker 2: and then back for a couple of months and then
Speaker 2: sent away again. Man in uniform. Do I need to
Speaker 2: say anymore? Yeah, So I think that's the lure of
Speaker 2: what it was. It was like, oh, he's in the army,
Speaker 2: he's good looking. I'm like, what more could a woman
Speaker 2: asks for?
Speaker 1: But it was more than that. They got chatting a
Speaker 1: lot in the first few days, and Kylie quickly became
Speaker 1: pretty smitten.
Speaker 2: I was in Sydney and he was in Townsville, which
Speaker 2: I've lived in as well, so I know the area
Speaker 2: quite oh, and I thought, well, that's not so bad
Speaker 2: at least, that's another point that we had in common.
Speaker 2: And we started talking about why I left and what
Speaker 2: brought him to Townsville in specific, and you know, out
Speaker 2: of all regions in Australia, why was it Townsville And
Speaker 2: he was just basically that's where the deployment was. We
Speaker 2: would talk about everything and anything, and we'd be up
Speaker 2: to all hours and it was like when we were chatting,
Speaker 2: it just flowed naturally, like there were no awkward moments.
Speaker 2: We were talking literally every day, so there wasn't a
Speaker 2: day that we missed, you know, any opportunity that I could,
Speaker 2: I'd be like sneakingly logging in on my phone to
Speaker 2: see if he'd left messages or you know, as soon
Speaker 2: as I get notifications saying that, oh, you've received a
Speaker 2: new message, I was like back on there. So it
Speaker 2: was a kind of lust pool that had me sort
Speaker 2: of that attracted. It was like, well, hang on, here's
Speaker 2: someone that's someone invested in me for a change, you know,
Speaker 2: and they're local, so it was just like, let's explore
Speaker 2: and it was just again, Yeah, we'd chat about anything
Speaker 2: and everything. Remember your high school crush and when you
Speaker 2: first feel like you've met the lover of your life.
Speaker 2: It was all giddy. It was all asking each other
Speaker 2: about each other's lives and getting to know each other.
Speaker 2: So how you would expect an online relationship to start.
Speaker 2: There was that anticipation of getting messages back from him,
Speaker 2: so it was getting really invested in lack. Well, you know,
Speaker 2: I want to divulge information about my life to him
Speaker 2: and see if I fit what he's looking for.
Speaker 1: And what Kylie hasn't told us at this point is
Speaker 1: she'd had a pretty rough trot when it came to love,
Speaker 1: I'd been.
Speaker 2: Through a lot. Specifically when I was younger again, I
Speaker 2: was dating someone in the army that unfortunately was killed
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan on active duty, and at quite a young age,
Speaker 2: that kind of really destroyed me, and for a while
Speaker 2: I just didn't want to date. I was just not
Speaker 2: interested in it. It took me a while to get
Speaker 2: back on the dating bandwagon. When I did, the relationship
Speaker 2: I was in were awful because they were just like
Speaker 2: filled with cheating or just disrespect or they just wouldn't
Speaker 2: last long. So think at that point when I met
Speaker 2: Liam online, I was at a point where I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: well I'm sick of a single pringle and the third
Speaker 2: whell and you know, it was like, I think I'm
Speaker 2: now in a point where I want that special piece
Speaker 2: that was missing, so I had to go looking for it.
Speaker 2: That wall was up massively because as soon as he
Speaker 2: said that he was in the army, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh no, I'm like, oh, and I just I think
Speaker 2: not so much reacted negatively, but I had that wall
Speaker 2: up and he could tell, and he was like, what's
Speaker 2: your problem with people in the army? I said, well,
Speaker 2: it's not really a problem with the people. It's a
Speaker 2: problem with the job and you know, going to fight
Speaker 2: wars that are not ours to fight. If things progressed,
Speaker 2: I just didn't want to go through that again. And
Speaker 2: he did so much to convince me that his job
Speaker 2: wasn't that dangerous, like he was doing other things that
Speaker 2: weren't out on the front line. And I was more like,
Speaker 2: but you're in the army. I'm like, you're out there
Speaker 2: basically with a gun being shot at or shooting at
Speaker 2: other people. I'm like, your life is still at risk,
Speaker 2: in particular when you're in Afghanistan. When you're somewhere like
Speaker 2: Solomon Islands, they're generally your peacekeeping missions. So I kind
Speaker 2: of knew that being in Afghanistan. It did have that
Speaker 2: wall of like, is this the last time that I'm
Speaker 2: ever going to hear from you? What's going to happen?
Speaker 2: How am I going to get told? Like all those
Speaker 2: questions did cycle back through my head, and it was
Speaker 2: just like, because some time had passed since when I
Speaker 2: was that young and went through that, it was like, well,
Speaker 2: maybe try and open yourself up to again and don't
Speaker 2: be so hard on yourself. If that's going to stop
Speaker 2: you from finding love, then you're probably going to be
Speaker 2: alone for the rest of your life. So it was
Speaker 2: kind of it did take me a lot to really
Speaker 2: drop that wall and to want to sort of pursue it.
Speaker 1: There's no downplaying it. That's a significant trauma. So for
Speaker 1: Kylie to have dropped her walls for someone else and
Speaker 1: the Army was big, but their connection was obvious and
Speaker 1: he made her feel a million bucks.
Speaker 2: It's nice eye, it's a nice smile. Just my personality
Speaker 2: because I am very out there considering all the things
Speaker 2: I've been through in life, I'm still pretty much a
Speaker 2: big goofball and just I can articulate myself. Well, it
Speaker 2: was more just yeah. He was like, you look like
Speaker 2: you're someone that's very down to earth, very caring, which
Speaker 2: I am. Yeah, it was just I think he liked
Speaker 2: what he saw too, because I did have those walls
Speaker 2: up and the barriers, and I didn't want to sort
Speaker 2: of drop them so easily because it was like, I
Speaker 2: don't want to be heard again. And I did kind
Speaker 2: of put the whole guy through the ringer in terms
Speaker 2: of just like being so defensive and protective of myself
Speaker 2: and him having to reassure me that no, look, you know,
Speaker 2: I can't wait to meet you. I'm looking forward to
Speaker 2: spending time with you. We're going to do all these
Speaker 2: amazing things, things like going on the Harbor Cruisers road troops.
Speaker 2: So we spoke about everything that we were going to do.
Speaker 2: When he came to Sydney, there were gifts that were
Speaker 2: rocking up like I'd come home to, like long stem
Speaker 2: red roses, flowers glore. My unit at one time looked
Speaker 2: like a florist and there were all these packages and
Speaker 2: everything showing up, and I'm like, well, he's like really invested,
Speaker 2: like you know, this is actually a legitimate relationship. And
Speaker 2: that's when I started telling people I was in a relationship.
Speaker 1: But she wasn't silly. You couldn't have an entire relationship online.
Speaker 2: It's actually Liam that suggested getting onto Skype. I was like, yes, absolutely,
Speaker 2: Like I want to hear this guy's voice, because, let's
Speaker 2: face it, you know, hot guy, hot voice that you
Speaker 2: can't be a hot guy and an ugly voice. I
Speaker 2: was just like, being that good looking, he's got to
Speaker 2: obviously sound hot as well. Again, very shallow, I think.
Speaker 2: So when he suggested that we get on Skype, I
Speaker 2: was like, yep, great. So we looked at our time
Speaker 2: differences and we found a time that would be suitable.
Speaker 2: Me being that professional that I was back then, it
Speaker 2: was like, well, I'll book it in as a meeting request.
Speaker 2: So I'd blocked out time in my diary that I
Speaker 2: was busy, and I told my friends that. I was like,
Speaker 2: oh no, I've got a work meeting because at that point,
Speaker 2: again none of them knew that I was even online dating.
Speaker 2: It was just like, oh yeah, I'm seeing someone, but
Speaker 2: I was very vague on details and I didn't divulge much.
Speaker 2: So we came to the skype call and it was
Speaker 2: like I remember racing home like I was back then
Speaker 2: again it was public transport, so I was like, hurry up, bus,
Speaker 2: get me the f home because I've got an important call.
Speaker 2: And it was just being really giddy, like it was
Speaker 2: almost like going on your first date again as a teenager,
Speaker 2: and all those butterflies and the crazy feelings. And I
Speaker 2: remember logging in and just waiting for him, and then
Speaker 2: when he popped up and it started ringing, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh God, do I answer. I'm like so it took
Speaker 2: a couple of minutes before I was like, all right,
Speaker 2: let's answer. And I was on full camera, but then
Speaker 2: there was a black screen and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm like not what I was expecting. And I said
Speaker 2: to him, oh, is there a problem with your like
Speaker 2: visual I'm like, I can hear you, and yeah, he
Speaker 2: did have a hot voice, but it was like I
Speaker 2: can't see you, and he said, oh no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I can't turn the camera on because we're not allowed
Speaker 2: to do video calls. So I left it for a
Speaker 2: little bit and then we'd talk and then I'd say, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, if no one's around, maybe you should just
Speaker 2: try and turn it on, even for like two seconds,
Speaker 2: like break the law. It's all a bit of fun
Speaker 2: and games. I'm like, you don't get caught, it's okay,
Speaker 2: And so I was trying to convince him, and he
Speaker 2: was just like, no, no, I can't. I can't. I'll
Speaker 2: get really big trouble if I'm caught, like they'll put
Speaker 2: me in like military prison. And so we moved from
Speaker 2: being an online chat to more skype chats, and every
Speaker 2: time the camera wasn't working, me being me, I would
Speaker 2: keep trying to get him to turn the camera on
Speaker 2: or maybe use a phone somewhere quietly in like the
Speaker 2: bunk rooms and stuff, and it just wouldn't happen. So
Speaker 2: that was kind of the first point where I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: why doesn't he want to be on camera with me?
Speaker 2: Like we've been talking for all this time, Like what's
Speaker 2: gone on? Is there something wrong with him? Like has
Speaker 2: he got something on his face that I'm not going
Speaker 2: to like? So I went through all these possible different
Speaker 2: scenarios of why isn't he turning his camera.
Speaker 1: On, but they did speak a lot. It's not like
Speaker 1: he wasn't real. And soon things between them became even
Speaker 1: more real too.
Speaker 2: I think the official of oh will you be my
Speaker 2: girlfriend thing kind of came in the delivery of like
Speaker 2: a dozen long stem red roses with like a little
Speaker 2: card in it that was like, literally just on it,
Speaker 2: will you be my girlfriend. I was like, was not
Speaker 2: expecting it at all. Like when I got home, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, passal, and I thought it was for
Speaker 2: one of my housemates. And then I looked and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's mine. I'm like I haven't ordered anything. And then
Speaker 2: when I opened it, I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: so like crying and all that kind of stuff, because again,
Speaker 2: at that point, I was very invested in it, and
Speaker 2: I felt that this was someone I cared for and
Speaker 2: was I falling for quite possibly, because there were definitely
Speaker 2: feelings there. Like I was telling people, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: not interested in dating, because in my mind I was
Speaker 2: waiting on someone to come back and to see me,
Speaker 2: and it was so to me it was definitely a relationship.
Speaker 2: And even when we're on the phone, he would be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're my girl now, like you know you belong with me.
Speaker 2: Our life together is going to be great. So we did,
Speaker 2: I guess, reference each other as a couple, and the
Speaker 2: things that we were going to do not I or you.
Speaker 2: It was us and his daughter and all that stuff,
Speaker 2: so it felt like a legitimate relationship. It got to
Speaker 2: a point where we were saying I love you, and
Speaker 2: for me, that was something very hard to do because
Speaker 2: back with that partner that did unfortunately die in Afghanistan,
Speaker 2: that was the last thing we ever said. So for
Speaker 2: a very long time in my life, I couldn't even
Speaker 2: say I love you to my own mother because it
Speaker 2: was just something that it was just too traumatic for
Speaker 2: me to actually say, because it was like in my
Speaker 2: mind it was like if I tell this guy I
Speaker 2: love him, something's going to happen to take it away,
Speaker 2: and I just didn't want it to end prematurely. I
Speaker 2: tried to put it off as long as I could,
Speaker 2: and Liam would then start saying, oh, don't you love me?
Speaker 2: You don't say it, and it's kind of like, was
Speaker 2: I forced into saying it? No, not really, because I
Speaker 2: got to a point where I'm like, well, actually, no,
Speaker 2: I think I do love this person. Because I was
Speaker 2: always thinking about them that were sending gifts. I was like,
Speaker 2: really felt like a part of his life.
Speaker 1: Things were perfect, well almost, and after what seems like
Speaker 1: an eternity, the inevitable finally happened. Liam was due home
Speaker 1: from deployment. The timing couldn't have been better.
Speaker 2: He was going to be home for my birthday, and
Speaker 2: I thought, what more could I asks for in terms
Speaker 2: of a birthday present? It was like I didn't care
Speaker 2: what I got as long as it was him back.
Speaker 2: And we spoke about whether he would go back to
Speaker 2: Townsville and then come straight to Sydney, or would he
Speaker 2: come straight in to Sydney, or would I fly back
Speaker 2: up to Townsville. So we did talk about the dynamics
Speaker 2: of how it would work, and we agreed that he
Speaker 2: would go to Townsville to sort out affairs there first
Speaker 2: and then organize a trip down to Sydney and sent
Speaker 2: me his flight. Itinery of when he was going to
Speaker 2: be at the airport, and I was like, great, I'll
Speaker 2: come and meet you at the airport. On that particular day,
Speaker 2: I got up and it was just not that I've
Speaker 2: ever been married, but it was like giddy, like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to meet the love of my
Speaker 2: life today and planning outfits and getting my hair done,
Speaker 2: makeup done, all of that done, like facials, petticures, manicures like.
Speaker 2: I went all out because I thought, well, when this
Speaker 2: guy gets off this plane, I want to like knock
Speaker 2: him dead. And then it was a matter of going
Speaker 2: to the airport, sitting there and watching the plane land
Speaker 2: and the plane take off.
Speaker 1: Yep, you heard that right. Kylie was waiting at the airport.
Speaker 1: But Liam never got off the plane.
Speaker 2: First of all, it was did he get on the plane?
Speaker 2: Have I missed him? Did something go wrong? And he's
Speaker 2: not called me. I tried to call him because at
Speaker 2: that point he had a phone too, and I had
Speaker 2: the number. The phone was off and I was just like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: maybe hasn't turned it back on yet. In the terminal,
Speaker 2: I even went up to the counter and I said, look,
Speaker 2: you know, was this person on the plane? And of
Speaker 2: course they were always like, oh, we can't give out
Speaker 2: that information, but we can tell you the flight left
Speaker 2: Townsville and it has arrived. All people that were checked
Speaker 2: in got off, and I was like, that doesn't really help.
Speaker 2: So I sat at the airport just I think it
Speaker 2: was for a good three hours, even after the flight landed,
Speaker 2: going maybe he's just lost in the terminal or I've
Speaker 2: missed him, And so I walked around trying to see
Speaker 2: if I could find him. I was like sending texts,
Speaker 2: probably like a maniac. He would have received about a
Speaker 2: hundred text messages from me going where are you? And
Speaker 2: I think then I found like a meeting point, and
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I'll meet here, and so I
Speaker 2: would say, oh, look, I'm standing at this, I'd take photos.
Speaker 2: I just started getting really frantic, and I was like,
Speaker 2: probably a hot mess or like a hot raccoon in
Speaker 2: an airport, because no doubt Miss Garrel would have been
Speaker 2: running down my face. But it was just that's when
Speaker 2: I started to get like all the other questions of
Speaker 2: like what's going on? Like have i been made to
Speaker 2: look like a dickhead because I'm sitting at the airport
Speaker 2: for so long? Like what's going on? I think I
Speaker 2: didn't really want to let it go, so I was
Speaker 2: hopeful that maybe it was like one of those romantic
Speaker 2: movie cliches, that he was still in the airport and
Speaker 2: I'd find him when everyone would gone, and I was like, no,
Speaker 2: I kind of wake up, like he's he's not here.
Speaker 2: So on the trip home again, it was trying to
Speaker 2: analyze what had happened, like why didn't he show up again?
Speaker 2: Trying to call them messages. It was like literally going
Speaker 2: mannik as to like what's happened? Like what's going on?
Speaker 2: Itinery like everything you know, and messages of him saying
Speaker 2: I'm at the airport, we're boarding the plane, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I think that fueled the excitement too, but
Speaker 2: then to have that all crashed down, it was just
Speaker 2: like gutted. I think it was pretty much just like
Speaker 2: someone had ripped in, like reached in and just ripped
Speaker 2: my heart right out of my chest and it was
Speaker 2: just like okay, like does he not like me? And
Speaker 2: he just didn't want to tell me? So is that
Speaker 2: why he didn't get on the plane? Like it was
Speaker 2: all just a mess, like I was a mess. It
Speaker 2: brought back all the past of all the relationships I've
Speaker 2: been in. It was just like, oh my god, here's
Speaker 2: another one that just doesn't want to be with me.
Speaker 2: Isn't man enough to tell me he doesn't want to
Speaker 2: be with me? And then there was that exactly that
Speaker 2: like Okay, I've said I love you to this guy
Speaker 2: and did that scar him off? And so that was
Speaker 2: kind of one of the other avenues I went down.
Speaker 2: He's like, Okay, maybe this is life's way of saying, Nah,
Speaker 2: you don't deserve this, so I'm taking it off you.
Speaker 2: So I became really angry at life because it was
Speaker 2: just like, you know, I tell someone I love them
Speaker 2: and then they disappear. I'm like, so it kind of
Speaker 2: put me back into an angry stage of like, I
Speaker 2: just I don't want to date anymore. I was angry.
Speaker 2: It was like, God, help if he messages me or
Speaker 2: calls me, because I was going to rip him apart.
Speaker 1: He did message her though, four days later.
Speaker 2: And it was like a really sob story of a message.
Speaker 2: It was more like, hey, babe, I'm so so sorry.
Speaker 2: Something came up. I couldn't get there. And I was like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: what was the something that was so important that you
Speaker 2: would sacrifice an airfair, which, let's face it, they're not cheap,
Speaker 2: and he was like, Oh, my daughter's really sick. She's
Speaker 2: in hospital, she needs all this medication. I didn't know
Speaker 2: what to do. I didn't think to call, and I
Speaker 2: was like, well, shouldn't I have been at least the
Speaker 2: first phone call to say, hey, you know, something's up
Speaker 2: with my daughter. I can't make it, I said. I
Speaker 2: would have been pretty understanding, I said, but to not
Speaker 2: show up. I'm like, I'll keep it g rated. But
Speaker 2: did let loose some really some really absolute crazy language,
Speaker 2: because I was just absolutely pessed off to the max.
Speaker 2: It was just like, I don't think you understood. Like
Speaker 2: I sat at the airport for hours waiting for you,
Speaker 2: looking like a fucking moron, crying, running around, frantic messaging
Speaker 2: like a maniac, and you were never on the plane,
Speaker 2: and you could have saved me that drama by at
Speaker 2: least calling and saying, hey, something's come up, and I
Speaker 2: would have understood. Well, I'm like, it's not really good enough.
Speaker 2: Like I get that you're a father, but you've also
Speaker 2: invested all this time into someone. I'm like, you couldn't
Speaker 2: even give me the respect or the decency of saying, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, something's come up. I think in his mindset too,
Speaker 2: Like again he was all, oh, I'm so sorry, Like
Speaker 2: I should have called. I should have you know, it
Speaker 2: was all these I should have I should have done this,
Speaker 2: I should have done that, and he just then kept
Speaker 2: sending more gifts. So it was like, well, red roses
Speaker 2: aren't going to cut it all the time that you
Speaker 2: fuck up, like you can't fix problems with flowers or
Speaker 2: gifts and stuff like that. So I was just like
Speaker 2: to the point of even throwing them out or giving
Speaker 2: them away to people because it was like I just
Speaker 2: didn't want them. It was like, it's not the apology
Speaker 2: I wanted. It's like I wanted a face to face apology,
Speaker 2: like make it right and do the right thing and
Speaker 2: come and see me like you said you would. So
Speaker 2: it kind of it was our first fight, I guess, but.
Speaker 1: She ended up forgiving him. She wouldn't forget, but he
Speaker 1: was really sorry, and she wasn't selfish. She knew, of
Speaker 1: course he had to put his child first. So after
Speaker 1: she calmed down and he apologized about three hundred more times,
Speaker 1: they agreed she would fly up to him in Townsville.
Speaker 2: I looked at making plans into going up to Townsville
Speaker 2: to see family for Christmas, and I thought I could
Speaker 2: tie it in with a trip to him, And when
Speaker 2: I told him, he was over the moon, much like
Speaker 2: I was when he said that he was going to
Speaker 2: be coming to Sydney. He was all like, oh, that
Speaker 2: would be amazing, Like I can't wait to see you.
Speaker 2: Like we could do some amazing things in Townsville. Well
Speaker 2: I know Townsville. Well, so yeah, I could show you
Speaker 2: my old favor spots and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: And he was like, yep, no, that's cool. And I said,
Speaker 2: well we could even consider because the troop in between
Speaker 2: Townsville and North Queensland, where my family's from, it was
Speaker 2: only about five hours. So I'm like, we could even
Speaker 2: do a road trip together, so I can fly into
Speaker 2: Townsville and then we can go up and see them.
Speaker 2: I'm like, because, let's face it, road trips are a
Speaker 2: great way to spend time with people with bad dad
Speaker 2: jokes and all that kind of stuff that I pull out,
Speaker 2: so all the crazy stuff, and he was all for it.
Speaker 2: He was like, yep, great. So then we started looking
Speaker 2: at dates and all that stuff, and I looked at
Speaker 2: schedule and that I think the first thing I did
Speaker 2: when I went to work the next day was like
Speaker 2: put in for annual leave and I said, all right, great,
Speaker 2: I want I think it was four weeks off, so
Speaker 2: taking Christmas through to the New year period off to
Speaker 2: go back home basically, and so then from there we
Speaker 2: just started talking about all the things that we would
Speaker 2: do and the countdown. So it was kind of somewhat
Speaker 2: he was kind of forgiven for the whole airport thing
Speaker 2: because I'm like, oh, look, just let it go. Otherwise
Speaker 2: you're going to be angry for your whole life. You'll
Speaker 2: probably wreck this. And relationships they all fight, and that
Speaker 2: was our first fight. So it was like, as a couple,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have fights, regardless if it's online or in person.
Speaker 1: Then the day arrived, he asked.
Speaker 2: If I wanted to be picked up from the airport,
Speaker 2: and I said, no, Look that's okay. I'll get a
Speaker 2: rental car because if we're going to drive up to
Speaker 2: Cannes and Mariba and all that kind of area, I'm like,
Speaker 2: we're going to need a car. So I was like,
Speaker 2: I'll get a rental car. I'm like, I'll just grab
Speaker 2: your address and i'll come meet you. I said, this
Speaker 2: is my flight details. I'm like, by the time I
Speaker 2: get out of the airport, get the car, get to
Speaker 2: your plate. So it would have been mid morning that
Speaker 2: I would have gotten up there. When I got there,
Speaker 2: I called and I said, oh, I'm like just off
Speaker 2: the plane. Now, I'm just going to go pick up
Speaker 2: the car and I'll be at yours within about twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five minutes. And he was all excited and everything,
Speaker 2: and I was like remember sitting in the car, going,
Speaker 2: oh my god, like, now we're actually going to meet
Speaker 2: and he can't run because I'm going to be at
Speaker 2: his house. I'm like, what's the worst thing that can happen.
Speaker 2: Maybe he'll open up the door and slam it in
Speaker 2: my face, or like all of those scenarios were going
Speaker 2: through my head of like, Okay, now we're going to meet.
Speaker 2: It's like what will I do when I first see him?
Speaker 2: Am I going to kiss him? Am I going to
Speaker 2: hug him? Am I going to slap him? Am I
Speaker 2: going to punch him for all the bad stuff? Am
Speaker 2: I going to let it all out? Or is it
Speaker 2: just going to be crazy town? Slam the door and
Speaker 2: off we go into the bedroom for a few hours.
Speaker 2: So all of that was going through my head while
Speaker 2: I was driving, and I remember even when I pulled
Speaker 2: up out the front of the place, I was just like, oh, oh,
Speaker 2: I get it together. Like I was just giddy. It
Speaker 2: was like again that feeling of your first ever relationship
Speaker 2: and you're just like, oh, you know, I'm about to
Speaker 2: meet this man that I've like given so much of
Speaker 2: my time too, and like a large piece of me
Speaker 2: being my heart. And I remember walking up the footpath
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, is this what it's like when
Speaker 2: guys are walking up to pick you up for your
Speaker 2: first date? And I'm like, it's normally the other way around,
Speaker 2: but I'm not traditional with something. So I remember knocking
Speaker 2: on the door and again, like my tonsils, I was
Speaker 2: constantly swallowing, like with nerves, and I'm like, get it
Speaker 2: to keeviy more on, like you know, you're in your thirties,
Speaker 2: like you should have this shit all down back.
Speaker 1: The moment was here, So knocked on the.
Speaker 2: Door and constantly swallowing through nerves, and then the door opened,
Speaker 2: and I remember all that excitement just turning to shock
Speaker 2: because it was an old lady standing at the door.
Speaker 2: So I was just frozen, like I couldn't even move
Speaker 2: my hands, my feet, couldn't talk. I was just literally gobsmacked.
Speaker 2: And this lovely little old lady is come. You're a
Speaker 2: right deer, like are you okay? Like what can I
Speaker 2: help you with? Like are you here to sell something?
Speaker 2: And I was just like at that point, I just
Speaker 2: started crying, like I broke down on this lady's doorstep
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, oh my god, like I look like
Speaker 2: the biggest fall. And then eventually I got the courriage
Speaker 2: up and I was like, I'm looking for Liam and
Speaker 2: she was like who, I said, Liam? I'm like, is
Speaker 2: that maybe your grandson? Or am I any relation? She's like,
Speaker 2: oh no, like I don't know. Liam doesn't live here.
Speaker 2: And I was just like not at all, Like how
Speaker 2: long have you lived in this house? Like did you
Speaker 2: recently move in? Have I got the right address? So
Speaker 2: I started just going frantic again with all these questions
Speaker 2: and firing them at this poor little old lady, And
Speaker 2: it was just like trying to understand in my head
Speaker 2: when all along, all I'm telling myself is like what
Speaker 2: the fuck? Every time I'm asking questions, but my brain's
Speaker 2: like what the fuck? Jumped in the car and I
Speaker 2: drove up to see my family and I didn't even
Speaker 2: mention anything, like I just bottled it up, because again,
Speaker 2: the point that online dating at that point was something
Speaker 2: that people didn't really talk about or it was seen
Speaker 2: as like the weird way of meeting people. It was like,
Speaker 2: I don't want my family to know that I've been
Speaker 2: like that. I'm I met this person online and I
Speaker 2: don't want them to know that I'm going through this
Speaker 2: kind of trauma. Like Christmas is meant to be happy.
Speaker 2: I hadn't been back home for Christmas in quite some time,
Speaker 2: so it was a while that i'd been home, so
Speaker 2: it was like, I just want to enjoy it, enjoy
Speaker 2: the time with family, friends, And I was just like,
Speaker 2: I'll deal with all the other crap on my own.
Speaker 2: Like I didn't even tell my best friend and we
Speaker 2: have known each other since high school, and the people
Speaker 2: closest to me, I just didn't even tell a soul,
Speaker 2: Like I lived through the whole thing on my own
Speaker 2: and just bottled it up. And anytime people would ask
Speaker 2: about Liam, I was just like, oh no, he's still overseas.
Speaker 2: So I was lying to my inner circle because I
Speaker 2: didn't want to look like the dickhead that I felt
Speaker 2: like I was. I became very, very angry, like I
Speaker 2: was no longer the sweet and innocent person or the
Speaker 2: sweet person that I can be. I just like ripped
Speaker 2: all that off, and I was just going mental. I
Speaker 2: was like constantly calling and the phone wasn't answering, so
Speaker 2: he wasn't even picking up the phone like had kind
Speaker 2: of in a sense cut communication with me for a bit,
Speaker 2: and then I was just like what the hell. So
Speaker 2: I'd be messaging constantly again, like just really throwing a
Speaker 2: tirade of abuse at him, and I got to a
Speaker 2: point that I'm like, you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: let this interrupt the time with my family. I'll have
Speaker 2: my time and then I'll deal with that crap when
Speaker 2: I get back to Sydney.
Speaker 1: The whole time Kylie was in Townsville for three weeks,
Speaker 1: she didn't hear a word from him.
Speaker 2: That's all I wanted to know, was like the what
Speaker 2: why aren't you meeting me? And then, surprisingly enough, I
Speaker 2: think it was about three and a half weeks and
Speaker 2: another package arrives and it was a whole big sub
Speaker 2: story of oh, I'm sorry, and it was like cute
Speaker 2: little teddy bears and like just trying to buy me back,
Speaker 2: and it was just like I was just aggressive and
Speaker 2: it was just like what was the excuse this time?
Speaker 2: And again it was his daughter and it was like
Speaker 2: you kind of can't keep using your kid as an excuse.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I went to your address and I was like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? You gave me some old ladies address
Speaker 2: and he was like, oh, that's my grandma's house. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: your grandma doesn't even remember you, because she was like, no,
Speaker 2: Liam lives there. And he was like, oh, well she
Speaker 2: suffers dementia and all that. I said, no, demensia patients
Speaker 2: that bad. Like he was just trying to backtrack and
Speaker 2: it was just like Noah, like you're being caught out.
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's not in nana's house. I'm like, who's
Speaker 2: our dress did you give me? And he was like, oh,
Speaker 2: it was a mate's mom's house. And I said, well,
Speaker 2: why would you send me to the wrong address. I'm like,
Speaker 2: do you even live in that part of town? When
Speaker 2: he was like no, I don't. And I was like okay,
Speaker 2: I'm like so again, why would you give me a
Speaker 2: wrong address? And he was I got nervous. I didn't
Speaker 2: know what you would think of me. I was scared.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, if you were scared, we could
Speaker 2: have met in a public place. I'm like that would
Speaker 2: have been probably more safer for both of us, Like,
Speaker 2: there's plenty of places we could have met on the beach,
Speaker 2: could have met in the mall, could have met at
Speaker 2: the picture theater, Like, there's so many different places we
Speaker 2: could have met. That's not good enough. I said, until
Speaker 2: you tell me the truth. And I said, nothing but
Speaker 2: the truth. I'm like, I don't even really want to
Speaker 2: hear from you because I was just so angry, and
Speaker 2: he just kept sending gifts and it was like, no,
Speaker 2: you can't keep buying people with gifts. I'm like, it's okay, great,
Speaker 2: you've got money, but that's good. I'm like, obviously you
Speaker 2: need to be spending it elsewhere. Because at that point,
Speaker 2: I'd had enough, like I wanted out. There were lots
Speaker 2: of things that were going through my mind. I was like,
Speaker 2: h is he actually even in Australia was one of
Speaker 2: the big ones. I was like, Okay, was he actually
Speaker 2: even in towns?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: Is he actually even in my country? I think at
Speaker 2: that point it was like other photos actually him? Or
Speaker 2: are they someone else? Like what could possibly go wrong
Speaker 2: for him not to want to meet me? And then
Speaker 2: I even started to flip it back on myself. I
Speaker 2: was like, what's wrong with me, Like, why doesn't he
Speaker 2: want to meet me? Like? Am I not pretty? Am
Speaker 2: I not? Like? What was it about me that he
Speaker 2: maybe didn't like? So I started to really break myself
Speaker 2: down in trying to think that maybe it was me,
Speaker 2: rather than looking at it and going, well, he's the
Speaker 2: one with you issue, Like I put myself out there
Speaker 2: and I just felt like it wasn't being reciprocated to
Speaker 2: the level I deserve and expect it.
Speaker 1: So she cut him off. She ignored his calls and messages.
Speaker 1: She knew she deserved better. But then after a few weeks,
Speaker 1: she started to feel really lonely.
Speaker 2: I started to miss him, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: missed having those initial chats, Like I would go back
Speaker 2: and read all of our initial messages because I'd screenshot
Speaker 2: at them and saved them because it was like when
Speaker 2: I was having a shitty day, I'd read back over them.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, you know, someone thinks the world of me.
Speaker 2: So I would go back and I'd be like, well,
Speaker 2: I want to find that relationship again, And I'm like,
Speaker 2: I just don't want to go through the hassle of
Speaker 2: having to troll through profiles and go through the whole hime,
Speaker 2: my name is this again, and the old first aids
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. I was just like, well, and
Speaker 2: I was so invested in him. I'm like I actually
Speaker 2: missed him. So I reached out and I was like, oh, sorry,
Speaker 2: I was a bit of a dick, but can you
Speaker 2: understand why I was angry? And like instantly I got
Speaker 2: a message back, and then that's when we started talking again,
Speaker 2: and I was just like, you know, don't ever do
Speaker 2: that again. Like I'm a forgiving person. I'm willing to
Speaker 2: give you another chance, but you just can't be doing
Speaker 2: that stuff, like you need to be honest with me.
Speaker 2: I reminded him of the past relationships and how badly
Speaker 2: I'd been hurt, and I just didn't want to go
Speaker 2: through that, like I wanted people to be honest with me.
Speaker 2: And I said to him at that point, like if
Speaker 2: you can't be honest moving forward, then let's not move forward.
Speaker 2: Let's just cut it. And he was like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm really sincerely sorry. I'll do better. I'll be better,
Speaker 2: and I was like okay, fine, and so yeah, I
Speaker 2: was like all right, let's give it another go. And
Speaker 2: then next thing we know, he's being deployed again. It
Speaker 2: would have been the January of twenty twelve, and he
Speaker 2: was going back pretty much at the end of that month,
Speaker 2: so we didn't have much time in a sense. So
Speaker 2: it was just again we went back to the chatting.
Speaker 2: The gifts kept coming, and it was just like, all right,
Speaker 2: well it's back on track, Like that kind of giddy
Speaker 2: feeling was starting to come back, and of course the
Speaker 2: feeling of concern deployment. It's the words that no one
Speaker 2: in any sort of military family or connection wants to hear,
Speaker 2: because you just think the worst and then you try
Speaker 2: and find out where they're going. And when I heard
Speaker 2: it was back to Afghanistan, I was like, oh, here
Speaker 2: we go, Like that's when that wall came back up again,
Speaker 2: of like oh my god, Like I'm like, you're going
Speaker 2: to be on patrol, like watch out for landmines, like
Speaker 2: keep looking at the ground, don't look up. Like it
Speaker 2: was just all that trauma coming through and it was
Speaker 2: like I even resorted to asking him if there was
Speaker 2: any way he could get out of it, and he
Speaker 2: was like, no, it's like it's my job back when
Speaker 2: we're deployed, we have to go. And I was like, well,
Speaker 2: surely there's something you can do. Like I used to
Speaker 2: joke around about breaking his arms so he couldn't go,
Speaker 2: and he was like, no, when we get the call up,
Speaker 2: we have to go.
Speaker 1: So he did. They'd now been together over a year
Speaker 1: and still hadn't met, and now they wouldn't be able
Speaker 1: to for another six months at least. But Kylie was
Speaker 1: determined this was her guy. She could wait.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of where it all went downhill. From there.
Speaker 2: It was again just all the excuses with not going
Speaker 2: on camera, and then I started recognizing in the calls
Speaker 2: the voices were starting to change, and I was like,
Speaker 2: this does not sound like Liam anymore. It sounds like
Speaker 2: I've got someone completely different on the other end of
Speaker 2: the phone. Then I'd start hearing noises, I'd start hearing
Speaker 2: people in the background, and I'm like, okay, Like, if
Speaker 2: you're deployed and you're in the communications tents, I know
Speaker 2: how noisy they can be, but there's no females in there,
Speaker 2: like you're in a male unit. And it was just
Speaker 2: the times that the calls were coming through as well
Speaker 2: seem to be odd, and even some of the numbers
Speaker 2: that were coming through. It wasn't always the same number,
Speaker 2: and I was just like, all right, something is just
Speaker 2: going on. I'm like, I don't know what the hell,
Speaker 2: but it's just all weird. And then it was like
Speaker 2: other people were getting on Skype and I was just
Speaker 2: like I called him out, don't know. I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: what's going on. I'm like, you don't sound the same,
Speaker 2: and he would just get aggressive. He was like, you
Speaker 2: know what, I sound like. We've been speaking for so long.
Speaker 2: Why would you question that I would be anyone? But
Speaker 2: I'm not. And any time I bought up any kind
Speaker 2: of questions of questioning who he was his character, I
Speaker 2: was just met with aggression. From there, we sort of
Speaker 2: it would be very rocky, like we would talk and
Speaker 2: then not talk, and then I was just again because
Speaker 2: I was so invested and thought that I'd actually given
Speaker 2: this person my heart, I was like, ah, benefit of
Speaker 2: the doubt, naive me just kept going and it was like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: we'll get past it. We got through one deployment, we'll
Speaker 2: get through another. But again, there were times that we
Speaker 2: would talk, then we wouldn't talk, then we would talk
Speaker 2: and wouldn't Gifts would still arrive, and again, like there
Speaker 2: were times it would go back to like it was
Speaker 2: when we first started talking. It was all like the
Speaker 2: flirty chats, and I was like, okay, well this is
Speaker 2: the person I've got. And so that went on for
Speaker 2: another good part of a year because he was constantly deployed,
Speaker 2: so he'd come back and he'd be back briefly and
Speaker 2: then sent back again. So it was about another year
Speaker 2: that it was pretty much rocky like that. So at
Speaker 2: that point I was also starting to go, well, is
Speaker 2: this a relationship I really want to be in. I
Speaker 2: was like, I've put so much time and effort and
Speaker 2: to a degree money into it. I was just like,
Speaker 2: this isn't the kind of relationship that I want. It's
Speaker 2: not the one I deserve. Like I looked at who
Speaker 2: I was in the mirror and it was just like,
Speaker 2: how are you? Like I thought I had a really
Speaker 2: good grip on the kind of person I was because
Speaker 2: I had such a great job, great friends, and it
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, okay, I was missing a special someone.
Speaker 2: But I was like, am I defined by having a
Speaker 2: relationship in my life? And it was just like nah,
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, this isn't serving me.
Speaker 1: So she ended it. She told him over the phone.
Speaker 1: She couldn't keep her life on hold like this anymore.
Speaker 1: But guess what. That very day, he'd been planning to
Speaker 1: call her with some big news.
Speaker 2: When I finished this tour, I'm actually leaving the army
Speaker 2: for good, Like I get my discharged and then you know,
Speaker 2: we can do whatever we want. And but I'm going
Speaker 2: to be relocating to Melbourne. I've got family that in
Speaker 2: Melbourne that I can go and live with. The medical
Speaker 2: treatment for his daughter was better in Melbourne. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, that's not so far. Said's kind of closer
Speaker 2: than what Townsville is to Sydney. So I said, we
Speaker 2: can still make that work. I'm like, my life is Sydney, though,
Speaker 2: I said, But first things first, you need to be
Speaker 2: here and we can go from there. I said, like,
Speaker 2: when you arrive back in Melbourne, let's catch up properly
Speaker 2: and let's make a real good go of this. I
Speaker 2: get that it's been rocky, but if it's what you
Speaker 2: really want, let's make it a good go. And so
Speaker 2: it was about a couple of months when he finished
Speaker 2: the deployment and was in Melbourne, and at that point
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, for more time off work. So
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I'll come down on a holiday
Speaker 2: because again I haven't seen my family in Melbourne for
Speaker 2: a while. And so I said, okay, well, these are
Speaker 2: my flight details. I'm like, you can come and pick
Speaker 2: me up from the airport. This time. I usually get
Speaker 2: my family to pick me up, but hey, you know, like,
Speaker 2: let's have that romantic movie moment where you get off
Speaker 2: the plane and you see each other and you just
Speaker 2: cry and sob and all that stuff. And he was
Speaker 2: all for already, was like, yep, great idea, send me
Speaker 2: flight details. So I did and got to Sydney Airport
Speaker 2: and I messaged him saying yep, I'm here. Flight's delayed,
Speaker 2: and I was pissed off at that. I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: damn flight. So we're messaging the whole time and I'm like, yeah, well,
Speaker 2: you know, the airline's saying that we're going to leave
Speaker 2: on time now, and I'm like, oh, I'm now having
Speaker 2: to walk from one end of the airport to the other.
Speaker 2: And so I was giving him a running documentary of
Speaker 2: what was happening, and then eventually got on the plane.
Speaker 2: I said, okay, I've now go to turn my phone off,
Speaker 2: like we're about to take off. I said, I'll see
Speaker 2: you in an hour and a bit, depending on how
Speaker 2: long it takes to get off the plane. And I
Speaker 2: remember we land into Melbourne. I've got my seat belt
Speaker 2: already undone, and it was like messaging, going, yeah, we've
Speaker 2: just landed. I'm on the tarmac and he was messaging back, yep, great,
Speaker 2: I can see the plane. We pull into the gate
Speaker 2: and like I jumped up out of a seat for
Speaker 2: the people next to me were like, you might want
Speaker 2: to steady on, like you've got a while to get
Speaker 2: off the plane. So I'm like no, I'm like, come on,
Speaker 2: let's just let's get off, like go, and again, like
Speaker 2: that whole giddiness came in of like okay, I've got
Speaker 2: my overhead luggage. I'm about to walk off the plane
Speaker 2: and meet someone that I've invested so much in for
Speaker 2: two years. And I remember coming out and I'm like
Speaker 2: looking around again and had his photo and I'm like
Speaker 2: looking and like couldn't see and I'm like, oh, Melbourne
Speaker 2: Airport's like Sydney Airport, busy all the time, and so
Speaker 2: many places to look. And I was like, so I
Speaker 2: messaged and I said, okay, I'll meet you out near
Speaker 2: the coffee stand and there's one like out of the
Speaker 2: main entry and he was like, yep, sounds good, and
Speaker 2: so I went there and again I'm standing thinking where
Speaker 2: is he. I'm like, you know, and like I kept messaging,
Speaker 2: going I can't see you. I'm like, you know, taking
Speaker 2: photos of my outfit, going this is what I've got on,
Speaker 2: this is where I'm standing, and he was replying with like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm like still stuck in traffic. I'm like, what kind
Speaker 2: of car are you in? And he was like, oh, why,
Speaker 2: kid's a Holden Commodore. I was like, okay, I'll meet
Speaker 2: you in the express car park pickup. So got myself
Speaker 2: over there and again photo saying here I am. I
Speaker 2: remember standing there for what seemed like hours. I'm like,
Speaker 2: doesn't take this long to get into the airport. You've
Speaker 2: got photos of what I'm wearing where I'm standing, pretty
Speaker 2: easy to find me. And that point I started trying
Speaker 2: to call and then the phone's off, so I kept
Speaker 2: trying and I'm like, okay, I'm like I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's my phone. So I grabbed a stranger's phone
Speaker 2: and I think I threw like five bucks at them
Speaker 2: and said, oh, I need to make a phone call.
Speaker 2: So I tried from a different number off.
Speaker 1: Her stomach dropped. This couldn't be happening. Surely something had
Speaker 1: gone wrong between him being so close he could see
Speaker 1: the planes landing and now.
Speaker 2: So I gave it half an hour and tried again.
Speaker 2: Phone still off. So then I start calling my auntie
Speaker 2: that lives close and I was like, I'm at the airport.
Speaker 2: My ride hasn't picked me up. Are you cool to
Speaker 2: come and get me or is it easy just to
Speaker 2: catch cab? And she was like, oh a tax issues,
Speaker 2: Like I'm busy. I'm like okay, no dramas. So I did.
Speaker 2: So I went to my aunt's house and I was like, O, well,
Speaker 2: that was one of the other reasons I was going
Speaker 2: there for anyway, was to see family. Got to my
Speaker 2: Aunti's house and then he calls me and he was
Speaker 2: like where are you And I'm like, I'm at my
Speaker 2: aunt's house. I'm like, did you not get all my messages?
Speaker 2: I'm like, did you think I was going to stand
Speaker 2: around till midnight or until the police come and pick
Speaker 2: me up for the loitering at the airport? I'm like no,
Speaker 2: I went to my aunt's and he was like, oh,
Speaker 2: because I'm so sorry I got stuck, and I'm like
Speaker 2: stuck where I'm like, you told me you were in
Speaker 2: the line for the airport traffic and he was like oh,
Speaker 2: I kept looping around and I'm like right, and I said, oh, look,
Speaker 2: I said, it is what it is. I said, look,
Speaker 2: give me your address and I'll come see you tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I'll hire a car and I'll come see you. And
Speaker 2: so we went down that path. So Liam gives me
Speaker 2: an address that's not quite on the other side of
Speaker 2: Melbourne from where my aunt is, but a fair drive
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I didn't care. And I
Speaker 2: remember that morning getting up and again working out a
Speaker 2: nice outfit put on and doing my hair, doing my makeup, going, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, it's today, the day I win the lottery
Speaker 2: and meet the guy that I've been talking to for
Speaker 2: so long and invested in, and I'm like, hopefully all
Speaker 2: this shit will be behind us. And I remember driving
Speaker 2: out to the address he'd given me, and let's just
Speaker 2: say that excitement soon crashed down to earth when I
Speaker 2: got there and it was a vacant block. I was
Speaker 2: absolutely devastated and I think a lot worse than what
Speaker 2: I was when I had the whole experience in Townsville.
Speaker 2: I was just like what the fuck. I'm like, not again,
Speaker 2: I'm like, let alone give me someone else's address, but
Speaker 2: giving me an address that is an empty block, I'm like,
Speaker 2: who does that to someone? I'm like, what have I
Speaker 2: been caught in for the past two years? I was
Speaker 2: screaming and carrying on and probably looked like an idiot
Speaker 2: again too so for all the people around, and it
Speaker 2: was just like, I'm like, how the fuck do I
Speaker 2: drive back home? And my auntie what's going on? I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: I can't. So I remember driving home and my aunt
Speaker 2: was like, how was your time? I'm like, yeah, it
Speaker 2: was great. You know. I caught up with friends and
Speaker 2: just went sightseeing and you know, again more lies to
Speaker 2: family because it was just again it was embarrassment. Like
Speaker 2: I was overcome with so much embarrassment and I guess
Speaker 2: so much shame in myself that it was like, how
Speaker 2: could I be so stupid a naive? It was just like,
Speaker 2: how are you going to explain this to people? I
Speaker 2: sent him one final message and it was basically, go
Speaker 2: fuck yourself. I'm done and that was it. Like I
Speaker 2: deleted him from Skype, I deleted Skype altogether, deleted my
Speaker 2: account on that oasis.
Speaker 1: I was done with it, and that was it. She
Speaker 1: had him blocked, so she didn't even have any way
Speaker 1: to hear from him. But he didn't try either. The
Speaker 1: jig was up. Whatever that jig was, so Kylie just
Speaker 1: had to move on. It was painful, embarrassing and so confusing,
Speaker 1: made all the worse by the fact she hadn't shared
Speaker 1: what was going on with anyone. So she quietly grieved
Speaker 1: the relationship that was and tried as best she could
Speaker 1: to get on with her life. In fact, it wasn't
Speaker 1: until years later it came up again at all, when
Speaker 1: she heard of a website called Sauce Bottle.
Speaker 2: It's basically a website that journalists or people that are
Speaker 2: writing stories or needing something from people go on. They
Speaker 2: list up the job, so it's kind of like air
Speaker 2: tasker in a sense, but you're a source. Some are paid,
Speaker 2: some are free. And I remember coming across one that
Speaker 2: was for catfishing, and I was like, what's this And
Speaker 2: it was around the same time that MTV brought out
Speaker 2: the TV show Catfish, which I absolutely loved. I thought, Oh,
Speaker 2: this show's awesome, and then when it hit home that
Speaker 2: that's what had happened to me, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: this is not so cool. I'm like, that's the same
Speaker 2: shit that happened to me, and I'm like, they've made
Speaker 2: a TV show out of this. And then I came
Speaker 2: across that Bottle call out for people to tell their
Speaker 2: stories about being catfished, and I remember sitting on it
Speaker 2: for a while and I was like, because with Souce Bottle,
Speaker 2: you're given deadlines that if you want to reach out
Speaker 2: to those people you can, And I really sat on
Speaker 2: it and I was just like, is this something that
Speaker 2: I actually want to speak out, put my name and
Speaker 2: my face to and admit that it had happened to me,
Speaker 2: because like my friend saw me as someone that was
Speaker 2: very strongheaded, very professional, very driven, like had their shit together,
Speaker 2: and to be putting this out there, it'd be like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, this was my weakness. And next thing I knew,
Speaker 2: I'd responded to it like I didn't even think, and
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, have I got the story for you?
Speaker 1: So she told it. She wrote down and published her
Speaker 1: whole story of what happened with Liam the way he
Speaker 1: treated her, the gas slighting, the lies, the ghosting, and
Speaker 1: that she still had no idea what had actually happened.
Speaker 1: Ruffy was even who he said he was. It was
Speaker 1: the first time she'd told anyone what had happened, like.
Speaker 2: It was just so many people reach out, going, oh
Speaker 2: my god, you were so brave, but why didn't you
Speaker 2: tell us? Because again, no one knew that I'd gone
Speaker 2: through this, and it was a wave of emotion and
Speaker 2: it was just like, well, yeah, you know, I should
Speaker 2: have probably told people, in particular my mum, who was
Speaker 2: my best friend, and it was just like again I
Speaker 2: was overcome with guilt and shame. It was just like, well,
Speaker 2: I didn't want to, I said, because you know, one
Speaker 2: meeting someone online is not seen as normal, and I
Speaker 2: was worried about how people would perceive me. But a
Speaker 2: lot of it was like, you're so brave, You're so brave,
Speaker 2: and I thought, oh, great, you know I'd done that.
Speaker 2: But then I thought it would stop.
Speaker 1: But it didn't. The day after her story was published,
Speaker 1: she got a call from a producer from a national
Speaker 1: TV news show. She didn't know if she wanted to
Speaker 1: be on TV, but agreed for the producers to try
Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of what had happened either way.
Speaker 2: But it was at that point that their investigators had
Speaker 2: taken it up and I'd given all the information that
Speaker 2: I had, and they'd actually found the people that were
Speaker 2: pretending to be Liam, and they're like, well, Liam is
Speaker 2: more Liam's and I'm like, what do you mean? And
Speaker 2: they're like, it was a group of people. There's multiple people,
Speaker 2: There's about four or five of them. It's basically a
Speaker 2: scam ring. I'm like, what's a scam ring? And he
Speaker 2: was like where it's multiple people that are in on
Speaker 2: the thing. And I was like okay, and I'm like, so,
Speaker 2: like Liam, is he an actual person? He goes he
Speaker 2: is an actual person, but we've also reached out to
Speaker 2: him and his photos were used by these people. So
Speaker 2: he's actually in the military. He has a wife and
Speaker 2: a daughter. Then they said to me that the Liam
Speaker 2: that you were speaking to was never in Australia. He's
Speaker 2: actually in Nigeria. And then I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: And I think that's when it had kind of really
Speaker 2: slapped me across the face that I was like, Fuck,
Speaker 2: I've been scammed. I've not only had money taken off me.
Speaker 2: I've had my heart ripped out, my trust, like I
Speaker 2: was blown to pieces. So I then sort of looked
Speaker 2: back over the two years that it was and I
Speaker 2: was like, because even a lot of my friends were saying, oh,
Speaker 2: he's probably not real and all this, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: shut up, Like he is, Like I've heard him on
Speaker 2: the phone. He's sending gifts, Like scams are all normally
Speaker 2: one way, like you're always giving, not getting, and I
Speaker 2: was getting things, and that's why I think I never
Speaker 2: saw it as a scam. But then when I sat
Speaker 2: back and really dissected it to the point that I
Speaker 2: was just like red flag number one, red flag number two,
Speaker 2: and like the voice changing and the camera never being on,
Speaker 2: like that was alarm bell number one. Like that's when
Speaker 2: I should have been, Like I shouldn't have let it
Speaker 2: go as easy as I did, just the constant excuses.
Speaker 2: I'm like, should I have been so forgiving? Probably not,
Speaker 2: Like I should have called out the bullshit when it
Speaker 2: was going off. Even though I was getting things, like
Speaker 2: I was getting the flowers and all that stuff, it
Speaker 2: was still I'd given up money, I'd given up more importantly,
Speaker 2: my emotions, and it was like, was I desperate? Probably
Speaker 2: a little bit. I wouldn't say I was overly desperate,
Speaker 2: but I think it was not desperate to have a relationship.
Speaker 2: It was desperate just to have that person that cherished me.
Speaker 2: And it was more something was missing in my life.
Speaker 2: And was I a little naive? Absolutely? I think that
Speaker 2: I'd been through so much already up until that point
Speaker 2: in life that it was like opening up myself again.
Speaker 2: Had I really thought about how was I going to
Speaker 2: protect myself from going through all this stuff? And I
Speaker 2: think i'd also not long just come out of being
Speaker 2: clinically depressed for a good couple of years. So it
Speaker 2: was like I was finding my feet and this gave
Speaker 2: me the confidence to be me again. The main question
Speaker 2: I asked myself was like, what the fuck? Who have
Speaker 2: I been talking to? Who's been at the end of
Speaker 2: the computer? Who was the person I've been talking to?
Speaker 2: Like who have I been pouring my heart out to?
Speaker 2: It was like just what the hell? Like why me?
Speaker 2: Was even another one? Like was I picked out of
Speaker 2: like millions of other profiles and I'm like, oh, let's
Speaker 2: destroy this person. It was more just what was wrong
Speaker 2: with me at that point that he didn't want to
Speaker 2: meet and it was again I think taking it on
Speaker 2: that I was a problem and it was not him.
Speaker 2: It was all me. So finding out Liam was a
Speaker 2: real person did validate me in some sense that he
Speaker 2: was also a victim in this because he's had his
Speaker 2: photos used and his identity, Like I started questioning myself, well,
Speaker 2: how would he be feeling with all this? How has
Speaker 2: that affected his family? Because I'm not one hundred percent
Speaker 2: sure that if he was ever contacted and told and
Speaker 2: we've never spoken, I've never had the opportunity to actually
Speaker 2: speak to the real Liam, but it would be interesting
Speaker 2: just to know from his point like how having your
Speaker 2: photos used to suck someone else in would have affected him,
Speaker 2: but to see that he has a family, it would
Speaker 2: have been gut wrenching for him.
Speaker 1: Kylie is incredibly strong. She's done a lot of work
Speaker 1: and a lot of healing, and he's in a really
Speaker 1: good place now of knowing who she is and understanding
Speaker 1: that what happened to her wasn't her fault and doesn't
Speaker 1: define her. She even says in some way she's glad
Speaker 1: it happened because of what it's taught her.
Speaker 2: One big thing I've taken out of all of this
Speaker 2: is that you don't need to have someone to define
Speaker 2: who you are, Like you can be an absolute individual
Speaker 2: on your own, and you should be and know who
Speaker 2: you are. And I guess the other thing too, like
Speaker 2: is I've learned to listen to gut instinct. Like there
Speaker 2: were times my gut was going off and I was
Speaker 2: more listening with my heart than my gut. And now
Speaker 2: I've learned that if your gut's telling you something something's
Speaker 2: not right, it one hundred percent is not right. Like,
Speaker 2: listen to your gut instinct. Like I know people say
Speaker 2: it's the old debate of your head over your heart
Speaker 2: and vice versa, it's actually your gut over everything else.
Speaker 2: Because that instinct you get when something smells like a rat,
Speaker 2: it is a rat.
Speaker 1: But she'll still never understand why it happened.
Speaker 2: Look, I'd love to know it. When we look at catfishing,
Speaker 2: people generally do it for either emotional power over a
Speaker 2: person or financial I was no millionaire and I'm still
Speaker 2: not a millionaire, so they were never going to get
Speaker 2: large sums of money out of me. But I think
Speaker 2: it was more just that emotional power to control someone
Speaker 2: I don't know, like it's just really dog act to
Speaker 2: do to someone. I jumped back into the dating world
Speaker 2: again because I was like, I'm not going to let
Speaker 2: this define me. But again, it did take a good
Speaker 2: couple of years to sort of rebuild myself because I
Speaker 2: was just like, I'm not going through that shit again.
Speaker 2: And I didn't even get back on online dating for
Speaker 2: I think it was a good five ten years, like
Speaker 2: i'd left it for a while, like it's something I've
Speaker 2: kind of only just dabbled back in in the last
Speaker 2: couple of years because I threw myself into work, like
Speaker 2: I've changed jobs and industries, I've studied, I've graduated UNI,
Speaker 2: I've had reallylationships. I've grown a lot currently not in one,
Speaker 2: but that doesn't upset me anymore. It's like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: I've got a lot going on in life that dating's
Speaker 2: the least of my worries at the moment. So am
Speaker 2: I open to it in the future. Absolutely, But at
Speaker 2: least now I know if I go back onto those
Speaker 2: online apps, it's a matter of I know what to
Speaker 2: look out for. I have had those giddy feelings again,
Speaker 2: and it was good to have them and know that
Speaker 2: I still had them. Within me because for so long
Speaker 2: I had put that wall back up. I've now been
Speaker 2: able to sort of master that mindset of breaking down
Speaker 2: things and being careful and really analyzing things before I
Speaker 2: take that jump. But definitely had those feelings and would
Speaker 2: love to have them at some point again.
Speaker 1: And she wants to keep working to break down the
Speaker 1: stigma about being scammed and help stop it from happening
Speaker 1: to them.
Speaker 2: Look, the reasons that scammers do these kind of things,
Speaker 2: there's such a wide range of reasons. I mean, if
Speaker 2: they're people that know the person that they're going to catfish,
Speaker 2: it'd be because you don't like a kid at school,
Speaker 2: or you don't like someone you work with, or you're
Speaker 2: jealous or whatever. It's still no reason to pretend that
Speaker 2: you're someone that you're not because, like, let's face it,
Speaker 2: in a legal world, that's fraud, So why can't you
Speaker 2: be charged with fraud like it's committing an offense. But
Speaker 2: there was a young girl that unfortunately took her life
Speaker 2: because of catfishing. This poor girl was only sixteen. And
Speaker 2: the thing that infuriates me is like if I was
Speaker 2: to drive my car out and accidentally hit someone and
Speaker 2: they die, I get done for manslaughter, yet that poor
Speaker 2: girl has taken her life because of someone's actions and
Speaker 2: there was kind of no consequences. So trying to advocate
Speaker 2: to make it law and to make it legal that
Speaker 2: there are some kind of repercussions for what this can
Speaker 2: do to people is now something that I'm massively a
Speaker 2: supporter of. I've been introduced to sites like social Catfish
Speaker 2: where you can actually drag and drop people's images in
Speaker 2: and it will tell you if they're on any dating
Speaker 2: sites and multiple dating sites, or if they're even being
Speaker 2: flagged on scam sites. And I mean now that online
Speaker 2: dating's come back into a full force of its way
Speaker 2: to meet people with the likes of Bumble and Hinge,
Speaker 2: it's a good time to remind people that hey, if
Speaker 2: you're not certain, dump those photos in. But one thing
Speaker 2: I have noticed with the new dating apps is they
Speaker 2: have self verification in there now, So you've now actually
Speaker 2: got to take a selfie of yourself in the app
Speaker 2: and it verifies it against your profile images and if
Speaker 2: it's not you, then I think they block the profile.
Speaker 2: So online and dating, it's good to have seen that
Speaker 2: it's advanced with technology as well and doing its bit
Speaker 2: to try and stop these things from happening even further,
Speaker 2: there's been lots of good to come out of it
Speaker 2: as well as bad. I think that's my life's purpose
Speaker 2: is to really help people be aware, to be a
Speaker 2: better version of themselves, and to just support other people
Speaker 2: out there that have gone through this and to know
Speaker 2: that while it's not okay to go through it's okay
Speaker 2: to actually be upfront and talk about it. Because that's
Speaker 2: one thing I didn't do is like, as I said,
Speaker 2: my mum My Network, my close friends knew nothing about
Speaker 2: it until I had appeared on TV, and it was
Speaker 2: more the fact that not being afraid to speak up.
Speaker 2: And I think though it's mainly just to really support
Speaker 2: other people that are going through it, because I say
Speaker 2: to people, we go through things in life and we
Speaker 2: wonder why me, and I'm like, because I'm strong. I
Speaker 2: think it's because I was strong enough to deal with it,
Speaker 2: Whereas if it had been anyone else, they probably wouldn't
Speaker 2: have been as strong and probably they wouldn't be sitting
Speaker 2: here sharing their story.
Speaker 1: Everyone has an ex is a Minti Media production and
Speaker 1: proudly part of the mum of MEA network is written
Speaker 1: and narrated by me Georgia Love and produced by Linda Scott.
Speaker 1: If you have a story you'd like to share, email
Speaker 1: podcast at momamea dot com dot au. You can support
Speaker 1: us by following the show in your favorite podcast app
Speaker 1: and leaving a five star review. We'll see you for
Speaker 1: the next episode.