Speaker 1: Welcome Tomoma Mia out loud, out louders. It is what
Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the twenty second
Speaker 1: of July. And my name is Hollyway right, my name
Speaker 1: is Amelia Lasto and my name is even And here's
Speaker 1: what's on our agenda for today, Shit skirts and bin faces.
Speaker 1: The UK has a new PM and I have a
Speaker 1: very quick cheat sheet.
Speaker 2: For an intro, plus how to get into the most
Speaker 2: exclusive club in the world.
Speaker 3: And why women are raising twenty years off of their career.
Speaker 1: But first, in case you missed it, Emily Vernon.
Speaker 3: In case you miss it, Australian politics have given us
Speaker 3: a tiny gold nugget of something that doesn't really have
Speaker 3: much to do with politics at all. So earlier this week,
Speaker 3: politician and Member of One Nation Barnaby Joyce was being
Speaker 3: interviewed by the ABC. He was dialing in remotely outside
Speaker 3: of his home in New South Wales and he was
Speaker 3: answering questions about his leaders Pauline Hansen's alleged European working holiday.
Speaker 4: So this is what happened.
Speaker 5: It seems to me, Barnaby Joyce, that your decision to
Speaker 5: defect to One Nation is dragging you further into a
Speaker 5: place of intolerance and racial discrimination. You're defending your leader,
Speaker 5: but are you really comfortable with where she is taking you?
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 4: Sorry, it's a dog.
Speaker 7: It's a dog.
Speaker 8: Now.
Speaker 2: Barnaby's got form when it comes to dogs. Do you
Speaker 2: remember back in twenty seventeen, he was Deputy Prime Minister
Speaker 2: at the time and Johnny Depp bought his dogs Pistol
Speaker 2: and Boo. These were the dogs he shed with Amber
Speaker 2: heard to Australia and then Barnaby, well, Barnaby issued a threat.
Speaker 9: Let's listen.
Speaker 6: It comes to the next issue, which is a gentleman
Speaker 6: by the name of John Christopher Depp, and he has
Speaker 6: decided to bring into our nation two dogs without actually
Speaker 6: getting the proper certification and the proper permits required. Basically
Speaker 6: looks like he snuck them in. Now mister deb has
Speaker 6: to either take his dogs back to California or we're
Speaker 6: gonna have to euthanize them.
Speaker 1: Remember he threatened Pistol and Blit Boo. It was a
Speaker 1: big deal.
Speaker 9: That's such a rec threat to the dogs.
Speaker 2: He gave him something like forty eight hours and he said,
Speaker 2: if you don't get them out in forty eight hours,
Speaker 2: I'm going to put them out.
Speaker 1: Is what you're suggesting that Barnaby is no friend to
Speaker 1: the dog.
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't sound like it, though, I will
Speaker 2: say Barnaby said today apparently the dog's name is Stella.
Speaker 2: She's a little dog and like a young dog. I
Speaker 2: don't know the size of Stella because no photos have
Speaker 2: been released of Stella. But he says that Stella still
Speaker 2: loves him, So make of that what you will.
Speaker 1: I love this because two things. I love the way
Speaker 1: he goes to Sarah Ferguson. It's a dog like because
Speaker 1: he does have two small children in the house.
Speaker 9: He's like, we can't have any.
Speaker 7: Confusion about that.
Speaker 1: A dog, it's But then the other thing I love
Speaker 1: is what's unfolded in the two days since this, and
Speaker 1: is like, you wouldn't yell at a city cavoodle like that,
Speaker 1: but you can yell at a country dog like that.
Speaker 1: So really Barnaby is being true blue.
Speaker 2: It's also a little bit interesting slash coincidental that Sarah
Speaker 2: Ferguson no one for her tough questions ramps up to
Speaker 2: the toughest question of the interview, which is why you
Speaker 2: aligned with Pauline Hanson when she's getting ever more extreme
Speaker 2: in her policies, and at that very moment, poor little
Speaker 2: Stella happens to interrupt.
Speaker 1: So your other thesis is that maybe Stella was imaginary
Speaker 1: at this point.
Speaker 9: Oh, we need bought him sometime.
Speaker 1: Distraction tactic, bring the dog in.
Speaker 3: I'd like to hear from Stella. Actually, I need to
Speaker 3: know what went down.
Speaker 1: Every gardener was once just a girl standing in front
Speaker 1: of a scary nightclub bouncer asking to be allowed into
Speaker 1: a very cool clubs.
Speaker 3: Oh Holly, that makes me want to give young you
Speaker 3: a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's true, it's true. We've all been there, worried that
Speaker 1: their inherent uncoolness is somehow on blatant display, like it's
Speaker 1: somewhere hidden in your haircut, or your shoes or the
Speaker 1: jacket that you put on because it was cold. But
Speaker 1: clearly that doesn't matter. Look, we've all been there, and
Speaker 1: that's why I love this story in the Financial Times
Speaker 1: about a woman, well, a writer called Anne Sylvain Chissan.
Speaker 1: She was trying to get into arguably the world's coolest club.
Speaker 1: Right it's called Bergaine. Oh yeah, and it's in Berlin.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: The amount of people who I know who have traveled
Speaker 3: to Berlin and have tried to get into it is insane.
Speaker 1: Because it won't surprise you to know, or maybe it
Speaker 1: will that I'm not deep in club culture anymore, but
Speaker 1: even I know that Berlin has the coolest clubs right
Speaker 1: and that this is the coolest of them. It inspired
Speaker 1: the Berlin club scene, including Bergaine, inspired all of my
Speaker 1: friend Harry Styles new record CHALAMAI goes there. Lots of
Speaker 1: people go there. The door policy is famously brutal. So
Speaker 1: our writer friend Anne, she tried and tries. She studies
Speaker 1: the law, she reads the history of the place. She
Speaker 1: knows who the bouncer is. He's very famous, very scary
Speaker 1: looking guy with a lot of facial period.
Speaker 2: If there's anything that is super cool, it is doing homework.
Speaker 9: So I'm so glad that she approach.
Speaker 1: The bouncer like the door policeman is called Sven Marquant
Speaker 1: and he has a face full of piercings and no
Speaker 1: fucks to give. That is truth. So he stands on
Speaker 1: the door and he says the words we've all heard,
Speaker 1: not tonight.
Speaker 9: Ladies, except in German, which is even more terrifying.
Speaker 1: Anyway, she tries and tries, and then it's a twenty
Speaker 1: four hour club, this one, right, So sometimes she tries
Speaker 1: at eight am, sometimes she tries at six pm, sometimes
Speaker 1: she tries at ten pm, and then eventually she gets in.
Speaker 1: Do you want to know what made the difference to
Speaker 1: her getting She took off all her makeup.
Speaker 4: Smart.
Speaker 1: I scrubbed off every trace of makeup, convinced my deal
Speaker 1: lipstick had betrayed me? Amelia? Are you going bear faith
Speaker 1: to get into this club?
Speaker 2: So this will probably surprise no one. I have literally
Speaker 2: never stood in a nightclub.
Speaker 9: Line? Is that because she just I've never been to
Speaker 9: a nightclub. I don't even know what happens at them.
Speaker 3: You've never been never.
Speaker 1: It's like, goodness, New York City.
Speaker 9: Even when I was sang in New York City and
Speaker 9: have a cocktail then I go home.
Speaker 3: So all your pairs of shoes must be so clean?
Speaker 10: Yes?
Speaker 9: Is that what happens in clubs?
Speaker 1: Stick anyway? Okay, you've never known a Look.
Speaker 2: Here here's my sort of angle on this and why
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with this story. And it's because Elon Musk
Speaker 2: couldn't get into this club, and people think that's why
Speaker 2: he went crazy.
Speaker 9: What let me explain. There's a big investigation about this,
Speaker 9: I want.
Speaker 1: To let him into my club.
Speaker 4: Either.
Speaker 1: To be fair I was, I'd be like, sorry, love
Speaker 1: not tonight.
Speaker 2: That So in twenty twenty two, Elon Musk goes to
Speaker 2: Berlin because he's opening a new Tesla factory in Germany.
Speaker 9: He's the world's richest man this point.
Speaker 2: He goes obviously to Bergan Bergaine and he says, I
Speaker 2: want to get in, and then he claims that he
Speaker 2: left the line because the word piece was written on
Speaker 2: the outside wall, and he famously hates the word piece
Speaker 2: and it drove him into such a rage that he
Speaker 2: left the line.
Speaker 9: That is his story.
Speaker 1: One second, he hates the word piece, like.
Speaker 9: Who hates the word.
Speaker 2: So anyway, Bergaine declined to comment on whether they did
Speaker 2: or did not refuse him entry, but on Reddit some
Speaker 2: musers said they did get him see him get turned
Speaker 2: away by none other than Spend Mark Quat himself and
Speaker 2: I'm famous obsessed with Spen, the famous bouncer who was
Speaker 2: very lavishly pierced. Anyway, it seems there's a couple of
Speaker 2: reasons why people think he didn't get in. You want
Speaker 2: to hear them. So the first one is that he
Speaker 2: went at the worst possible time. A Vice writer named
Speaker 2: Catherine Fields has written that any crash course in Berlin
Speaker 2: nightlife will start with a lesson on peak hours. People
Speaker 2: in America, probably people in Australia who think Friday and
Speaker 2: Saturday nights at the regular time to go to a club.
Speaker 9: Oh no, no, no, it's not when the cool people
Speaker 9: very touristy.
Speaker 2: Any time between ten pm and six or seven am.
Speaker 9: It's just hopelessly touristy. Forget about it.
Speaker 1: Another reason, well, see Harry and Zelle in there at
Speaker 1: that time.
Speaker 2: No, it's the seriously going at like two o'clock after
Speaker 2: for the people with the vodka.
Speaker 7: Oh day, drinking.
Speaker 9: Gives me a headache. Okay.
Speaker 2: Another reason could be because he was dressed pretty casually,
Speaker 2: as people said, look, you've never seen him in anything
Speaker 2: other than basically a T shirt and jeans, And as
Speaker 2: this Vice investigation pointed out, the most casually dressed person
Speaker 2: coming out of that club on a recent night was
Speaker 2: wearing a leather trench coat and had dyed blue hair.
Speaker 2: So it could be that he just wasn't dressed very well,
Speaker 2: not in blin. The third reason is.
Speaker 9: That he doesn't give off the right vibe.
Speaker 2: Sven is all about the vibe check and a university
Speaker 2: mate of Masks has said he's very straightly, he doesn't
Speaker 2: like to drink, and then here's a quote from him.
Speaker 9: There were some nights where I'd be like, where's Elon?
Speaker 2: And I go up to his room and pound on
Speaker 2: the door and he's in there alone playing a video game.
Speaker 1: What's with the makeup?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 1: So because Elon probably wasn't wearing makeup and it didn't
Speaker 1: work for him, why are you cooler without makeup?
Speaker 3: I think you have to look like you're part of
Speaker 3: the vibe. So my TikTok feed is completely filled with
Speaker 3: videos of people teaching other people on how to get
Speaker 3: into this nightclub. I found a video from a TikToker.
Speaker 3: Her TikToker name is Mayor Abroad and she's an American
Speaker 3: who's been living in Berlin since twenty eighteen, and she
Speaker 3: posted a video that now has over two million views
Speaker 3: because it's has step by step guide on how to
Speaker 3: get into night club.
Speaker 4: I need you guys listen to this.
Speaker 11: How to actually get into Berkhein. Here's the ultimate guide.
Speaker 11: First and foremost, if you're a tourist who doesn't even
Speaker 11: like techno and isn't interested in the music one bit. Honestly,
Speaker 11: don't even try going here. If you just want to
Speaker 11: have a crazy time. You don't have a clue. The
Speaker 11: bouncer is gonna smell that shit from a mile away,
Speaker 11: and if you don't fit the vibe and the party,
Speaker 11: they're not gonna want you there. So if you're actually
Speaker 11: into techno and you're up for the challenge, the first
Speaker 11: thing you got to nail is your outfit. As you
Speaker 11: probably know by now, you should wear all blacks, stay
Speaker 11: away from name brands, anything that doesn't fit the grungy vibe.
Speaker 11: I'd recommend wearing something mesh like bra tops, harnesses, a
Speaker 11: grunge skirt or shorts. You can never go wrong with chains.
Speaker 11: For makeup, go with dark eyeliner and eyeshadow and try
Speaker 11: to slick your hair back with gel.
Speaker 9: Okay, this sounds like.
Speaker 1: Who's getting hair is maybe you nineteen eighties tongue.
Speaker 3: I think it's just like matrix, like just go as
Speaker 3: like someone vibe.
Speaker 1: It's very like techno serious right like? And this is
Speaker 1: clearly very much what.
Speaker 9: If it's a cold Berlin can get very.
Speaker 1: In the cold, but let the trench coat yeah, or
Speaker 1: like maybe a black passage.
Speaker 9: I got one of those, Like.
Speaker 3: You feel the colt, you're there for techno dancing. You
Speaker 3: can't feel the trench. I do, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: But you know you're up in the north of England
Speaker 1: standing in nightclub queues in minus five while wearing a
Speaker 1: bra top. It's in my DNA.
Speaker 7: It's because you just have to drink.
Speaker 3: A lot so you don't feel anything.
Speaker 1: And again there's drinking.
Speaker 3: But the top comment from this video was also another
Speaker 3: suggestion that said the best method is to wear a backpack.
Speaker 3: The bouncer sees it and knows you're the type to
Speaker 3: stay long. Throw an extra outfit and self care products too.
Speaker 3: I got in that way.
Speaker 9: Wow, wow, oh my god.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad these days are behind me. I just
Speaker 1: remember the anxiety of standing in a queue for a
Speaker 1: really long time and then getting to the front and
Speaker 1: just seeing their eyes and you're like, you're like, I
Speaker 1: know if you don't have to say, or even worse,
Speaker 1: your friends get in and you Doug oh, Harry Styles
Speaker 1: gets in and you like that.
Speaker 2: This is some real news I can use. So basically,
Speaker 2: no makeup, leather trench, mesh, bra top and gel that's
Speaker 2: what you're going to wear to the next out loud recording.
Speaker 9: Honestly, we might let you in.
Speaker 1: What I've just been told by our producer is that
Speaker 1: we're also on call the We've been saying the name
Speaker 1: of the club wrong all the way through.
Speaker 2: It's actually called Bergheim. I'm really then, We're so sorry.
Speaker 2: In a moment, Britain has a new Prime Minister and
Speaker 2: Holly is excited about it. A shit suit update.
Speaker 7: Hi louders, it's meya here.
Speaker 8: I recorded our scurelous Gossip Tuesday subscriber episode with em
Speaker 8: and Holly. We talked about the coolest wedding of the
Speaker 8: year that you weren't invited to that wasn't Taylor Swift
Speaker 8: because maybe you went to that a lot of people did.
Speaker 8: We also spoke about j Lo's very passive, aggressive heavenly
Speaker 8: photo dump to celebrate her fifty seventh birthday and how
Speaker 8: her sister might feel about that.
Speaker 7: So much more Gossip. There's a link in the show
Speaker 7: notes Got it in your ears?
Speaker 2: Britain has its seventh Prime minister since twenty sixteen. Andy
Speaker 2: Burnham has vowed to bring back hope to the country
Speaker 2: in a speech delivered controversially without a turned outside Number
Speaker 2: ten Downing Street yesterday.
Speaker 12: I know people at home are fed up with politics.
Speaker 12: I hear you, and I want to be honest with you.
Speaker 12: We have not been good enough and we need to
Speaker 12: be better. We will be We will make this moment
Speaker 12: a circuit breaker for Britain.
Speaker 9: Holly.
Speaker 2: I know that it's cool that he didn't use a
Speaker 2: elect turn, and I know that you love his northern accent.
Speaker 2: But to me, he looks largely like the last man
Speaker 2: who was Prime Minister. So I'm not getting the hype
Speaker 2: about why he's the second coming. You got to explain
Speaker 2: it to me.
Speaker 1: How very dare you, really, Lester? How very dare you
Speaker 1: suggest that this middle aged white man is not massively
Speaker 1: different from the last middle aged white man.
Speaker 2: They both have glasses. Neither of them will get in
Speaker 2: at Bergheim?
Speaker 9: What is the differen though?
Speaker 1: Burnham might get into Bergheim because he is the cool
Speaker 1: he is the INDIEPM. Right, he's from Manchester. The man
Speaker 1: has stood in a few nightclub lines in his life.
Speaker 1: We know this about him.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, because he got rid of hot
Speaker 3: left turn guy.
Speaker 1: Well here's the first. So this is interesting because so
Speaker 1: Andy Burnham. We talked about this briefly a few weeks ago,
Speaker 1: but he was the mayor of Manchester, Right's may and
Speaker 1: Manchesters for quite a long time. Popular mayor seem to
Speaker 1: do quite a lot of good stuff, think Mam Darmi,
Speaker 1: but not quite as radical, right, but think about like
Speaker 1: the enthusiasm for a local mayor who actually appears to
Speaker 1: do the other thing he has in common with Mam Danny.
Speaker 1: Mam Darmi is very good on social media, a great communicator,
Speaker 1: a little bit cringe sometimes, but gives it a red
Speaker 1: hot go. The opposite of the politicians who are all
Speaker 1: really afraid of it and don't know.
Speaker 2: Wat is he like sitting in his car putting on
Speaker 2: his lip liners saying like today in Manchester.
Speaker 1: It's very like that. Actually he did his first few days.
Speaker 1: So anyway, back to the lectern for a minute before
Speaker 1: I get to that. So it's rare that he put
Speaker 1: a foot wrong, which he did by doing away with
Speaker 1: hot Legtern.
Speaker 9: Guys who was hot Leg turn?
Speaker 1: So what because so Britain's had seven prime ministers since breaksit,
Speaker 1: so in ten years that's a lot. I mean, Australia,
Speaker 1: we feel the pain. We went through a period of
Speaker 1: that ourselves. But every time we knew that a prime
Speaker 1: minister was about to resign or was about to take
Speaker 1: the job outside Number ten, first of all, the cat
Speaker 1: would walk out and walk around a little bit and
Speaker 1: be like like something's going on here today, and there'd
Speaker 1: be lots of social media about that. And then this
Speaker 1: hot young man would wheel out electorn and put it
Speaker 1: in place and set up the mics and stuff. And
Speaker 1: he became so familiar to the British problem because of the.
Speaker 3: Constant turnover a prime minister and recognize his bicepter.
Speaker 1: And I think that Burnham so as I say, Burnham
Speaker 1: is social social media savvy, and I think he was
Speaker 1: like I'm not having that guy stealing my thunder.
Speaker 9: On my big day, right.
Speaker 1: So he's been through a lot to get here, Burnham,
Speaker 1: because he was the mayor of Manchester, he wasn't actually
Speaker 1: a sitting member of Parliament. And obviously you have to
Speaker 1: be wont to be prime minister. But the previous Prime minister, Kirstarma,
Speaker 1: had become so unpopular that it became obvious that if
Speaker 1: Labor wants to hold onto anything, you know, long term,
Speaker 1: they were going to have to swap him out and
Speaker 1: roll the lectern and.
Speaker 4: The cat out again.
Speaker 1: So Burnham had to have a bi election in Manchester
Speaker 1: just to become an MP, but he won it resoundingly.
Speaker 4: That was great.
Speaker 1: So now he's come down to London. I'm his train
Speaker 1: with his big boy pants and he's standing. He's like
Speaker 1: he is now prime Minister. The ways that he's different
Speaker 1: might be subtle to you, Amelia, but to Brits who
Speaker 1: are very finely tuned to these things, his accent is
Speaker 1: a big deal. He is the first Prime minister to
Speaker 1: have a Northern English accent in fifty years.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: The last prime minister to have a Northern English accent
Speaker 1: was in the nineteen seventies. So think about like that
Speaker 1: might not sound like a big deal, but if you think,
Speaker 1: even here in Australia at the minute, how much of
Speaker 1: how much it's becoming a thing about like powers so centralized.
Speaker 1: No one cares about the regions, No one cares about
Speaker 1: anywhere except the big city elites. And in they're not
Speaker 1: comparable parable countries because the populations are so different. But
Speaker 1: in Britain that's.
Speaker 4: A big deal.
Speaker 1: Like the London elites are a big deal, right, think
Speaker 1: of the fact that out of the fifty nine prime
Speaker 1: ministers Briton's ever had, twenty of them went to the
Speaker 1: same private school they went to eat where Prince William,
Speaker 1: Prince Harry goes. Right, So this is a state educated
Speaker 1: Northern English dude who knows how to use a smartphone.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get to that minute, and that seems like wow,
Speaker 1: it's He also generally doesn't wear a suit. We were
Speaker 1: talked about this the other week. He wears a T
Speaker 1: shirt and a jacket and he thinks he's very cool.
Speaker 2: But interestingly he was wearing this Why is that it's
Speaker 2: the shit suit to wear?
Speaker 8: Of it?
Speaker 3: But I think that it's the suit that your mum
Speaker 3: puts you in for school photo day.
Speaker 1: You're like is and you can tell it's part of
Speaker 1: his charm that he's a little bit uncomfortable in the
Speaker 1: suit because he's just a bloke. He's just a bloke
Speaker 1: like you, you know. And it's funny because there are
Speaker 1: lots of videos on his socials that are showing how
Speaker 1: hard he's working. He's doing interviews with YouTubers where they're
Speaker 1: standing on ladders and then he's doing quick fire questions
Speaker 1: I know, and a lot of people are kind of like,
Speaker 1: are you running the country? Are you making content? But
Speaker 1: those people don't understand what we're dealing with now, So
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of.
Speaker 2: You're giving the energy of going into the comments and
Speaker 2: responding to every single comment. That's like he's not working
Speaker 2: hard enough, saying you don't understand.
Speaker 9: He's the king of the Lord exactly.
Speaker 1: King of the norm. He's got this cheerful, happy, worry
Speaker 1: vibe even as he knifed all of kar Starbus supporters
Speaker 1: and throw them out the door and said, you're out
Speaker 1: of a job.
Speaker 7: I'm bringing in my guys now.
Speaker 9: But it's but peace and love.
Speaker 1: So look, we'll see what happens. One of the first
Speaker 1: things he's doing that's upsetting a lot of people is
Speaker 1: is is saying yes to a lot of coal and gas,
Speaker 1: which is not very cool. But the other thing he
Speaker 1: is doing, which is very smart, and I think like
Speaker 1: Albow's probably watching Burnham a bit and taking some notes
Speaker 1: on the back of his hand, like that is he
Speaker 1: said that his government has one focus, one focus only,
Speaker 1: which is cost of living. He's like, we are a
Speaker 1: one issue government, which is very smart to say, but
Speaker 1: impossible to pull off, so we'll see.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm really happy for this guy.
Speaker 9: I hope it works that well for him.
Speaker 3: There is only, however, one British politician that I care about.
Speaker 3: His name is bin Face, no idea.
Speaker 7: What he looks like.
Speaker 3: Are we done with him because I'm not ready to
Speaker 3: let him go.
Speaker 1: We're not done with him, but we probably have another
Speaker 1: chance to talk about him because the buyers. It's a
Speaker 1: bit weedy, right, but we all know who Nigel Farage is.
Speaker 1: He is the leader of Reform, which is like the
Speaker 1: one Nation just for you, and he's recently gotten a
Speaker 1: bit of trouble because he seems to have been taking
Speaker 1: millions of dollars from like slightly shady sources and not
Speaker 1: declaring us sing where it's going, and so parliamentary inquiry
Speaker 1: is being set up into how Reform is being funded,
Speaker 1: and instead of playing along with it, he said, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna quit. I'm throwing my toes out of the pram
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna see if my electric care about the
Speaker 1: five million dollars or not. I'm going to stand in
Speaker 1: a by election. And all the other parties said this
Speaker 1: is bullshit. We're not going to stand against you. And
Speaker 1: Count bin Faith, who is the man who's always standing
Speaker 1: on the podium whenever anyone wins an election. He's a comedian.
Speaker 1: He said, well, I'll run against you. So the Clacton
Speaker 1: by election is in August and it's going to be
Speaker 1: Farage and bin Face and a couple of other comedy candidates,
Speaker 1: including an ossie who's just decided to throw his hat
Speaker 1: in the ring and say why not.
Speaker 2: Did you see there was an article i think in
Speaker 2: the Guardian like interviewing acquaintances of Count bin Face, and
Speaker 2: someone was like, he takes it very seriously, like he's
Speaker 2: that guy who comes to the pub and won't get
Speaker 2: out of character.
Speaker 9: Like he's like, please address me as mister bin Face.
Speaker 1: His policies include I will build one affordable house.
Speaker 2: No and also another key thing cheap croissants, which I
Speaker 2: think we can all get on board.
Speaker 1: With one pound limit on croissants. And he thinks that
Speaker 1: Adele should be nationalized. There you go, UK politics sorted.
Speaker 7: In a minute.
Speaker 1: The powerful people who insist on not using smartphones and
Speaker 1: the woman behind them ordering the uber. It's the ultimate
Speaker 1: creative flex. Actually, when I was in Tazzy, I know
Speaker 1: that when I was in Tazzy has become one of
Speaker 1: my like drink statements. Lately, I was at the very
Speaker 1: cool Mona Museum and I was standing in a queue
Speaker 1: to get on the ferry back behind Daniel John's. Oh,
Speaker 1: one of the coolest creatives Australia has ever produced. He
Speaker 1: doesn't have a couldn't, couldn't used to, couldn't the.
Speaker 9: Boat because he famously does with makeup.
Speaker 1: He would definitely get into the gain. He would definitely
Speaker 1: get in anyway. He couldn't zap onto the boat because
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a smartphone. Right, and fellow creative genius
Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan knows Daniel Johns's pain. He might be the
Speaker 1: man who's just brought them is back to the cinema.
Speaker 1: Parent that movie that you like, Odyssey is enormous. It's
Speaker 1: like Billions anyway. Whatever he Christopher Nolan who made that,
Speaker 1: he can't scan his boarding pass at the airport. He
Speaker 1: can make a genius movie, but he can't do that
Speaker 1: because he has no smartphone. Ed Shearon doesn't have a smartphone.
Speaker 1: Lots and lots of people is the flex now to
Speaker 1: be I'm not going to be distracted by all that
Speaker 1: we've done a bit about air pods. We all know
Speaker 1: what the what the phone's doing to us. But here's
Speaker 1: the problem. Modern life demands a smartphone much of the time.
Speaker 9: How does Christopher Nolan pay for parking?
Speaker 1: That's what I mean, order himself a burrito? Like anyway.
Speaker 1: So if you're not buying in, someone who hangs around
Speaker 1: you probably is buying in.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So if you're a Christopher Nolan or an Ed Shearing,
Speaker 1: you've probably got an assistant who's got a smartphone.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 1: In fact, when Daniel Johns couldn't get on the boat,
Speaker 1: he had a mate who was with him. Who and
Speaker 1: as Is Ansari, who is the American comedian gave an
Speaker 1: interview recently saying, well a couple actually saying that he
Speaker 1: doesn't have a smartphone, but revealing who in his life does.
Speaker 1: Here's a little bit of him on the THEO von Pod.
Speaker 13: I don't keep a smartphone on me. I don't. I
Speaker 13: blocked all shit on the Internet. I don't really use
Speaker 13: the internet. So sometimes I'll just ask my wife's stuff
Speaker 13: the same way you're asking this guy, and she's like,
Speaker 13: you know, I'm not the Internet.
Speaker 7: I'm your wife.
Speaker 13: I've gotten lost and had to call her and been like, hey,
Speaker 13: where where?
Speaker 9: This sounds very annoying.
Speaker 1: See what I mean? A lot of times I'll ask
Speaker 1: her stuff, he says. Sometimes I'll be walking around and
Speaker 1: I just got to call my wife and ask her
Speaker 1: for directions. I'm like, I'm here, how do I get there?
Speaker 1: And she'll help me out.
Speaker 9: Do you know who asked me to google things on
Speaker 9: the internet? My eight year old? I think that's appropriate.
Speaker 7: Yes, right?
Speaker 1: So he was Andrew Barrymore's talk show talking about this too,
Speaker 1: and she was saying, yeah, I'm trying to get rid
Speaker 1: of my phone, and they were all bonding about their
Speaker 1: flip phones and it's the coolest thing in the world,
Speaker 1: blah blah. But em is it possible to live in
Speaker 1: the world without a smartphone and not hand over all
Speaker 1: that labor to somebody else?
Speaker 3: Absolutely not. The only people who can do this are
Speaker 3: literally the elite, like the celebrities or the celebrities. I
Speaker 3: actually do know a few people. They're not my friends.
Speaker 3: Their friends are friends people who don't have smartphones. But
Speaker 3: it's like a friend's partner. And it's interesting because I
Speaker 3: always thought that was the ultimate flex is having a
Speaker 3: partner who doesn't have a smartphone. Because then you don't
Speaker 3: have to worry about like their presence on the internet.
Speaker 3: But then when I listen to this grab by Azizasari,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, so then that partner just becomes your child,
Speaker 3: Like you're essentially doing everything for them because they need
Speaker 3: a smartphone to get around. The only person in my
Speaker 3: life who does, who has a smartphone but never uses
Speaker 3: it is my eighty seven year old Nana, So she
Speaker 3: keeps the phone on her and then someone will call
Speaker 3: her on the phone and then she has to be like,
Speaker 3: can you answer this for me?
Speaker 9: Please? Totally get into berg Eye.
Speaker 1: She I bet people who don't have phones definitely get
Speaker 1: into bird.
Speaker 3: But I'm like, I find it so interesting, especially in
Speaker 3: today's day and age, Like how do you maintain relationships?
Speaker 3: How do you keep friendships? How do you pay for dinner?
Speaker 3: How do you show your ID when you get into
Speaker 3: burg Eye?
Speaker 9: And like, I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to hear Amelia because I know she's
Speaker 1: really cool and intellectually superior to the rest of us,
Speaker 1: does she though?
Speaker 9: But I also want to know how what a setup hold?
Speaker 1: I'm not setting you up to fail at all. A
Speaker 1: lot of these people say, like because there are a
Speaker 1: lot of them, sort of Simon Cowe's of the world,
Speaker 1: and whatever they say, it's freed me up so much
Speaker 1: like I don't wake up every morning to fifty two
Speaker 1: emails that then I've got to respond to and then
Speaker 1: I've got to respond to that. And I understand that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Does it appeal Amelia?
Speaker 10: Oh?
Speaker 9: Absolutely? I saw Zadie Smith.
Speaker 2: She came to Australia a few months ago and I
Speaker 2: went to see her at the Opera House in conversation.
Speaker 2: And what was so interesting is this woman is arguably
Speaker 2: the most interesting, intelligent person alive today in the world. Right,
Speaker 2: I think that her brain needs to be studied. We
Speaker 2: need to figure out how Zadie Smith thinks about literally everything.
Speaker 9: Do you know what?
Speaker 2: The interviewer spent most of the time talking about the
Speaker 2: fact that Zadie Smith does not have a smartphone.
Speaker 9: Fascinated and I got.
Speaker 2: Really frustrated because I wanted to hear Zadie Smith's opinions
Speaker 2: on everything else in the world, but all anyone wanted
Speaker 2: to actually hear about was the lack of smartphone, because
Speaker 2: she's never had a smartphone apart from a few months
Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight. She says when they first
Speaker 2: came out, she kind of got interested, but then she
Speaker 2: quickly discarded it. So what I learned from this interview,
Speaker 2: because there were many questions about it. She prints out
Speaker 2: Google Maps when she's going somewhere, so I guess that's
Speaker 2: less annoying than as he's I'm sorry calling his wife.
Speaker 2: But she's very sort of matter of fact about it.
Speaker 2: She says that, yeah, sometimes she thinks about things she
Speaker 2: wants to google or look up while she's out and
Speaker 2: about during the day. But she has a desktop computer,
Speaker 2: so when she gets home, Yeah, she can.
Speaker 9: Look up the stuff that she wanted to look up.
Speaker 1: She probably writes them down with a pen and a notebook.
Speaker 1: Smith probably carries a notebook for that.
Speaker 9: She probably does.
Speaker 2: And the other thing is that she says that she
Speaker 2: has a very addictive personality, and so she knows that
Speaker 2: if she did have a smartphone, should be utterly incapable
Speaker 2: of putting boundaries around sensible use.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting because obviously smartphone use isn't a problem
Speaker 1: for everybody. I mean it is, it's ruined the world
Speaker 1: in so many ways, but for some of us more
Speaker 1: than others that are able to like my partner Brent,
Speaker 1: and I know he's a man of a certain age,
Speaker 1: et cetera. But he could happily leave the house without
Speaker 1: his phone. He doesn't have to be on his phone
Speaker 1: all the time. It drives the rest of us crazy
Speaker 1: because we're trying to get hold of him, and but
Speaker 1: like he's not. It's not a problem for him, whereas
Speaker 1: I do. My relationship with my phone, and we talk
Speaker 1: about this a lot on the show, takes up a
Speaker 1: certain amount of energy just in its existence. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I think that probably it's true that you know,
Speaker 1: if you know that about yourself, as Zadie Smith does,
Speaker 1: then you're like, it's just better. I never go there
Speaker 1: a bit like I never have that first.
Speaker 2: And I also wonder if this is an idea. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure what the answer is. I want to see
Speaker 2: what you think. Like our instinct on this issue is
Speaker 2: to say that it's a privileged position to not have
Speaker 2: a smartphone, because there are all these things that you
Speaker 2: have to do in everyday life that if you don't
Speaker 2: have a smartphone, you'd have to have your assistant too.
Speaker 2: But I just want to try out the idea that
Speaker 2: maybe part of that is us making an excuse for
Speaker 2: our smartphone news because, for instance, on the list of
Speaker 2: things that you listened before, m that you must have
Speaker 2: a smartphone for one of them was paying for dinner. Well,
Speaker 2: there are credit cards, and I mentioned paying for parking. Yes,
Speaker 2: you can also use a credit card for that. Like,
Speaker 2: is there a way in which we hear these stories
Speaker 2: about the Zadie Smiths and the Christopher Nolans and we think, well,
Speaker 2: that's okay for them, and then we try and make
Speaker 2: excuses for why we can't do it.
Speaker 1: I think your idea is correct.
Speaker 3: Zadie Smith is really interesting because more often than not,
Speaker 3: I feel like even from the people I know of,
Speaker 3: it's always usually men who don't have a smartphone. And
Speaker 3: I also think when I think about my smartphone and
Speaker 3: when I'm away from home and I don't have it
Speaker 3: on me, I do get anxious because I also realize
Speaker 3: that it is a safety tool, like you have find
Speaker 3: my friends on it, for like women who go on dates.
Speaker 1: We used to live without that one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I just think the world is developed in
Speaker 3: a way where it is becoming more and more unsafe
Speaker 3: to be a woman being outside by herself and even
Speaker 3: going for like walks alone like I never walk alone
Speaker 3: at night, but I make sure if I am, I
Speaker 3: have my phone on me.
Speaker 9: But I don't think that just on that point, I
Speaker 9: don't think.
Speaker 2: The statistics bear out the idea that the world, let's
Speaker 2: narrow it down, that maybe, like living in Australia and
Speaker 2: walking down the street is becoming more dangerous for women.
Speaker 9: I think I wonder.
Speaker 2: If us smartphones are probably fueling our paranoia on that front.
Speaker 1: I think that would be really interesting to find out,
Speaker 1: because you're right, there are many more ways to keep
Speaker 1: yourself safe, and this you extrapolate that out to how
Speaker 1: we feel about our children. If our children like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I've got to get them a phone so I know
Speaker 1: where they are, and da da da da da that
Speaker 1: but does it really keep them safe? And that's an
Speaker 1: interesting question. Back to the creative geniuses. So Zadie Smith
Speaker 1: is a writer who, like as you've already said, Amelia,
Speaker 1: her brain works in amazing ways. Christopher Nolan makes these
Speaker 1: movies that no one else could make. Is the having
Speaker 1: no smartphone part of why they're so jeous. Do you
Speaker 1: think that if you are constantly plugged into feedback, which
Speaker 1: is the way that you live, if you have a smartphone,
Speaker 1: maybe you couldn't make right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean I've read about some other creative
Speaker 2: geniuses who don't have them. Dolly Partoner doesn't have one,
Speaker 2: Sarah Jessica Parker Ashley Olsen arguably the person who's done
Speaker 2: more to influence how we dress today than anyone other
Speaker 2: than her sister Mary Kate. These people, I think, do
Speaker 2: have a kind of mavericky way of.
Speaker 9: Being in the world.
Speaker 2: And maybe it is because they're not having to think
Speaker 2: about what people think of them.
Speaker 1: All because they're not distracted by endless videos of hotman
Speaker 1: gardening and puppies doing hilarious thing.
Speaker 3: But also like some people like the Kardashians and Taylor
Speaker 3: Swift are chronically online. They read every comment, they read
Speaker 3: every tweet, and they're also geniuses in their own way. Me,
Speaker 3: you don't have social media, so you're kind of fifty
Speaker 3: percent there. Do you think you could go without a
Speaker 3: smart phone?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 9: You do, you do it.
Speaker 2: It's a good question, and I think that's why I
Speaker 2: wanted to float that idea with you before. Like yesterday,
Speaker 2: for instance, very very scarily, my kids went missing after school.
Speaker 2: Everything's fine now, but I got a call from the
Speaker 2: school saying we don't know where your kids are basically,
Speaker 2: and it was all just a mix up. It's fine,
Speaker 2: they tried to run away. No, that's the jokes anyway.
Speaker 2: The point is that's another.
Speaker 9: Story, that's for another time. And I got a call
Speaker 9: from the school. Is the point.
Speaker 2: I don't think that when it comes to these really
Speaker 2: important situations, you got the school receptionist just kind of
Speaker 2: casually sending me a text.
Speaker 9: You up, kids have gone missing?
Speaker 2: You know, like I think when it comes to really
Speaker 2: important information, I think people are still calling us. They're
Speaker 2: still getting in touch with this in ways that don't
Speaker 2: depend on a smartphone.
Speaker 1: That if you had a flip phone, it would still
Speaker 1: work if you were as I'm sorry, they'd call your wife.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So what I'm saying is if you want to give
Speaker 2: track of your kids, maybe your flip phone is enough.
Speaker 1: I can just hear all the out louders shouting at
Speaker 1: us about all the ways you can live without a smartphone,
Speaker 1: as Amelia just did. Well, she's like, you could have
Speaker 1: a credit card, you could have I want to know
Speaker 1: if many of them do. I want to know if
Speaker 1: many of them have gone to flip phones and listen
Speaker 1: to their podcast on desktop, because the rise of YouTube
Speaker 1: suggests that more people are doing right. That's true too.
Speaker 1: I am not a creative genius. I am still wedded
Speaker 1: to the phone. Maybe if I had a flip phone,
Speaker 1: I would be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you'd get how many books have you written
Speaker 2: enough for I'm not a creative genius.
Speaker 9: Nonsense.
Speaker 2: Maybe if I got read my smartphone, I could actually
Speaker 2: publish book.
Speaker 9: There you go, maybe that's.
Speaker 3: My startphone haters. Look, it's fine to have a smartphone.
Speaker 3: You're doing okay, it's all right.
Speaker 1: Oh a nice segue into books. Thanks you mean to
Speaker 1: do that. I was just fishing for a compliment. I
Speaker 1: got one from which makes my day.
Speaker 9: But anyway, you're not getting into Berkheine. I'm sorry. No
Speaker 9: matter how much mesh, how many bra I don't care.
Speaker 2: One of those tax people use for like hiking around
Speaker 2: the world for a year.
Speaker 1: It's just occurred to me that me and a few
Speaker 1: a few mesh bratops could be seen and subversive enough
Speaker 1: to get into berkhines.
Speaker 9: You know you're in red Lip. Forget the red lip
Speaker 9: taking a scar off. You're here.
Speaker 1: Anyway, we digress back to books we have got. You
Speaker 1: might have heard about this. It's the best I reckon
Speaker 1: this is the best subscriber giveaway. We've given away some
Speaker 1: good things to subscriber. It's such a cool idea, I know.
Speaker 1: So we are giving one lucky subscriber to Mom and
Speaker 1: Mia a book stack of books chosen by us, the
Speaker 1: host of bammea out Loud, including Claire, including Jesse, including Meir,
Speaker 1: i e. The ones who are not talking to right
Speaker 1: now have all chosen two books and you can win
Speaker 1: all of them if you're a subscriber to Mom Mia.
Speaker 1: The excellent news is that if you're already a subscriber,
Speaker 1: you didn't have to do one thing. These books might
Speaker 1: just turn up at your house.
Speaker 3: One Yeah, so you get twelve books. It's kind of
Speaker 3: like a mini library. We actually got them sent to
Speaker 3: the office first and just looking at them all together,
Speaker 3: I'm like, you're going to have.
Speaker 4: A really good year.
Speaker 1: I want to just ask Amelia quickly, because I know
Speaker 1: what a lot of people's books are. Your choice for
Speaker 1: one of your books is Intimate So by Sally Rooney.
Speaker 1: Now that's an interesting choice because a lot of people
Speaker 1: might have got normal people. Tell us why you love.
Speaker 2: No it's her best So look it's Sally Rooney's fourth novel.
Speaker 2: I didn't even finish her third novel, obviously. I loved
Speaker 2: her first two, which were made into TV shows and
Speaker 2: so on, but I think this one is her best.
Speaker 2: It is said in Dublin in twenty twenty two, like
Speaker 2: I think all of Sally Rooney's books are. It's about
Speaker 2: two brothers who are dealing with the death of their
Speaker 2: father and both having some problems in their love lives.
Speaker 9: I mean, what Sally Rooney is always about.
Speaker 2: But what I thought was so fascinating about this book
Speaker 2: is it's about sibling relationships, and we so rarely get
Speaker 2: to read about siblings, let alone about brothers. I think
Speaker 2: there's some art about sisters, not a lot about brothers,
Speaker 2: And as someone with a brother, I just it gave
Speaker 2: me real insight into that kind of brother relationship and dynamic.
Speaker 2: But it's also just everything Sally Rooney always is. You
Speaker 2: know how she just writes dialogue that it feels like
Speaker 2: you're actually they're having a conversation with them.
Speaker 4: It's that.
Speaker 2: Do you think she has a smart phone? Oh, Sally Rooney,
Speaker 2: good question. I'm getting the vibe that she does not.
Speaker 2: I'm getting the vibe that she goes to Berlin for
Speaker 2: six months a year, goes to burg Hind at two
Speaker 2: o'clock in the afternoon and does not have a smartphone.
Speaker 9: Right, that's Sally Rooney.
Speaker 1: All right. If you're not a subscriber, but you want
Speaker 1: to win our amazing books, then become a subscriber. Now
Speaker 1: there's a link in the show notes and you could
Speaker 1: be in the running to win that pile. That is
Speaker 1: all we have time. But we've been all over the
Speaker 1: place yesterday. I loved being on the porch with Barnaby.
Speaker 12: I love being with.
Speaker 1: You guys and Harry Styles good times. We will be
Speaker 1: back in your ears tomorrow. Goodbye.
Speaker 3: See you out louders, it's em Are you still here?
Speaker 3: I do hope, so listen. Last week Maya, Holly, Jesse,
Speaker 3: and Luca got together to record a special episode What's
Speaker 3: it about? Well, we wanted to bring you the out
Speaker 3: Louders in on some things that are happening behind the
Speaker 3: scenes at Mamma Mia. Think of it like a conversation
Speaker 3: at a family dinner.
Speaker 1: Over to you, Holly, out louders, we have family news.
Speaker 1: Maybe you've seen it around, maybe you've heard some whispers.
Speaker 1: Maybe you haven't, but because you out louders are at
Speaker 1: the heart of everything we do here. Mamma Mia, we
Speaker 1: thought this is family news. You got to hear it
Speaker 1: straight from the various horses mouths.
Speaker 7: Especially this is.
Speaker 8: Your worst night mare being in the middle of this mished,
Speaker 8: fucked up family.
Speaker 4: Family.
Speaker 10: She just used the word we and when it suits
Speaker 10: holy she tries to exit the family and.
Speaker 1: Slowly backing away anyway. Specifically in this case, you are
Speaker 1: hearing from Jesse, from Maya and from Luca.
Speaker 10: Hello all, hi, Hi, thank you for having us.
Speaker 1: For the past two years, Mamma Mia has been run
Speaker 1: by Natalie Harvey. She is an extraordinarily capable, calm and
Speaker 1: passionate CEO. Nat is moving on, She's got a new job.
Speaker 1: She leaves with all our love. Well, I can't speak
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 8: She oh, my god, so much love, just like do
Speaker 8: you know what she said? Not only does she leave
Speaker 8: with our love and our gratitude. And Mamma Mia is
Speaker 8: a better business because of the time we spent with
Speaker 8: her as CEO. But she's leaving with a whole new wardrobe.
Speaker 8: Like when she came in she was quite corporate and
Speaker 8: now she has trainers every.
Speaker 1: Day anyway, it brings us to the family news, which
Speaker 1: is Luke Levine, who in Out Loud Law will always
Speaker 1: be MEA's son, Jesse's husband, the butt of some folks,
Speaker 1: sometime host on parenting out Loud. But he is apart
Speaker 1: from all those things. He is, in fact a very sharp,
Speaker 1: very intelligent and diligent man in his own right. And
Speaker 1: he is the new CEO of Mama Maya.
Speaker 4: It's very nice, big deal to say all those things, Well,
Speaker 4: it's all true.
Speaker 7: She's got them written down and.
Speaker 10: Also practically her boss.
Speaker 9: So he got nice to you.
Speaker 10: You get business?
Speaker 8: Move?
Speaker 7: Were you going to get to that?
Speaker 1: We're going to get to the awkwardness of that. But
Speaker 1: I asked them all to come in and sit down
Speaker 1: because if we can't have the exclusive on this news
Speaker 1: and who can, Let's get right to the big thorny questions. Luca,
Speaker 1: what's the CEO.
Speaker 14: I've heard someone describe CEO as chief energy officer, which
Speaker 14: is like bringing the energy to the business. It's your
Speaker 14: job to bring the energy.
Speaker 7: Well, I don't know if that's you.
Speaker 10: I was going to say, I don't want to undermine
Speaker 10: him immediately, but I was like vibes, I'm like this.
Speaker 14: Is not This is not the interview or the chat
Speaker 14: that I should come to to get myself built up
Speaker 14: and really confident about this role.
Speaker 7: I'm going to walk out of these two up about this.
Speaker 1: They're going to keep denigrating you, and I'm like, remember,
Speaker 1: it's really.
Speaker 10: Important, important for Optics that you're nice.
Speaker 8: To the love.
Speaker 4: No, it's good, it's good. Keep bringing me down.
Speaker 14: Always so, Nat, in her time as CEO here has
Speaker 14: been like the best possible example of that, right, Chief
Speaker 14: Energy Officer.
Speaker 10: I keep saying to you, I'm like, and another great
Speaker 10: thing about Nat, great speaker she is, and I love
Speaker 10: how Nat like she always she's such a great problem solved.
Speaker 4: Doesn't she have great hair?
Speaker 7: Her shoes?
Speaker 14: I wish I had a tenth as much energy and
Speaker 14: pizzaz as Nat does. She'd call it riz, she says.
Speaker 14: She would say herself that she has riz, which makes
Speaker 14: her sound like a real elder millennial. I definitely don't
Speaker 14: have rizz. I have whatever the opposite of rizz is.
Speaker 14: But I sort of think that pretty much the most
Speaker 14: important part of a CEO's role is to pick the
Speaker 14: right people and put the right people in the right
Speaker 14: roles in a business that can be some roles that
Speaker 14: are in front of the mic, you know, which is
Speaker 14: why see you and I having a performance conversation later,
Speaker 14: and other roles that most roles actually in our business
Speaker 14: that are.
Speaker 7: Actually telling you about your performance should be giving you
Speaker 7: some notes.
Speaker 14: So that's sort of what I see the most overarching
Speaker 14: CEO role as picking the right people for the right
Speaker 14: roles overall business strategy.
Speaker 4: Sometimes you're in a P and L document. Sometimes you're
Speaker 4: leading the leadership team.
Speaker 10: I don't know what P and L stands for, but
Speaker 10: Holly and I are not business people. No, you two
Speaker 10: are business people, right, I don't have an I still
Speaker 10: struggle with the.
Speaker 4: Wording you're pointing at myself and me.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, I actually just beat that.
Speaker 8: I think that you even though the first time you
Speaker 8: walked in here you'd never been in an office before,
Speaker 8: and you were with Claire, and I put you in
Speaker 8: a meeting with Holly and she's like, I'm busy, who
Speaker 8: are these people with these strange small people?
Speaker 7: But since then, the two of.
Speaker 8: You, you're not just the hosts of out Loud. You
Speaker 8: have been involved in this business so intimately. Over the
Speaker 8: last ten years, you've seen the tears, the hard parts,
Speaker 8: the challenges, the triumphs.
Speaker 7: You've seen a lot.
Speaker 9: Your book will be.
Speaker 10: Great, though, is like a really boring job from my perspective,
Speaker 10: and I think that Hollywood probably find it quite.
Speaker 7: That's why I'm not it ever.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, yeah, and I want to get to that
Speaker 1: because You've always been really open about talking about how
Speaker 1: your creative leadership really always needs that brilliant business brain
Speaker 1: to balance.
Speaker 8: With I think that there are lots of different types
Speaker 8: of CEOs, you know, it depends, and every CEO brings
Speaker 8: their own personality and skills to it, and that brought
Speaker 8: an incredible sales background, and that.
Speaker 14: Has the best energy as one of the best people leaders.
Speaker 8: But I know that I could never be CEO because
Speaker 8: I don't have the temperament. I don't have the patience,
Speaker 8: I don't have the business understanding. Frankly, like I don't
Speaker 8: look at spreadsheets. I'm all feelings. And a CEO they've
Speaker 8: got to be able to be very three hundred and
Speaker 8: sixty degrees of the business. And that is something that
Speaker 8: Luca does have because he's come through content, he's come
Speaker 8: through sales, He's worked in every facet of the business.
Speaker 8: So he actually knows more about the business in every
Speaker 8: department of it, way more than I do.
Speaker 1: One of the things I do know about Lucra is
Speaker 1: you're not particularly good at tuoting your own horn.
Speaker 4: Because you're not a parent. I hate it, but I need.
Speaker 1: You to tell me because I know you've already got
Speaker 1: the job. So it's not an interview in that way,
Speaker 1: but like, what do you think why you are the
Speaker 1: right person for this job?
Speaker 14: We were talking before the mix went on about aging
Speaker 14: and how I'm how I was born an old.
Speaker 1: Man has always said that about it.
Speaker 14: Yeah, and that's not why I've been chosen for this role.
Speaker 14: But nothing makes me feel more of an old man
Speaker 14: than when I think about the fact that I've been
Speaker 14: here for a decade.
Speaker 7: I know right than you are. How I actually don't know.
Speaker 7: Are you twenty seven or twenty eight?
Speaker 4: Currently either twenty eight or twenty twenty twenty eight?
Speaker 14: It always changes, really keep track of it, and I
Speaker 14: always rely on you ping around.
Speaker 7: To whatever Jesse's ages.
Speaker 1: What I remember about you coming in and working as
Speaker 1: a writer at MoMA Meter is that you have always
Speaker 1: been very like full of ideas. I'm very smart and
Speaker 1: wanting everything to be better. All the time, but you're
Speaker 1: also very receptive always to feedback to being put back
Speaker 1: in your box, like at that point you learn you
Speaker 1: did know how to shut up and learn, which I
Speaker 1: think is a not something that everybody who comes through
Speaker 1: is and be not necessarily what everyone would expect.
Speaker 14: During my time here, I always felt the way I
Speaker 14: do now, which was I always wanted us as a
Speaker 14: whole business to be getting better.
Speaker 10: Yes, I think that's a good point because the family
Speaker 10: business element of it, Like you came in, you finished school,
Speaker 10: you had been brought up on my mayor it had
Speaker 10: been in your household since what you were twelve or something.
Speaker 8: And before that, I was the editor of Cosmos, so
Speaker 8: he always know like that was his world, his women's content.
Speaker 10: And so even though you were coming in and you
Speaker 10: were the boss's son, so people were terrified about that
Speaker 10: to an extent that would.
Speaker 4: Have been going to job on us uncomfortable for you guys.
Speaker 10: Yeah, And so you came in as the boss's son.
Speaker 10: With that comes enormous privileges and doors opening and all
Speaker 10: that kind of stuff, but also responsibility in that everything
Speaker 10: that happens directly impacts your family. As an outsider who
Speaker 10: doesn't understand a whole lot about about business. Australia is
Speaker 10: so built on small businesses, and something like seventy percent
Speaker 10: of those businesses are family businesses. And the reason that
Speaker 10: is is because of the loyalty, because of the generational
Speaker 10: I suppose, like education.
Speaker 7: It comes with it and understand.
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, And I think that that's part of why
Speaker 10: you've kind of gone through the business, worked in lots
Speaker 10: of different departments, but sort of been men taught into
Speaker 10: a position like this over ten years.
Speaker 14: I've learned so much in all of the various roles
Speaker 14: that I've had here. I mean, we were just talking
Speaker 14: about when I start that I was writing under your
Speaker 14: guidance hole. But then you know, I was lucky enough
Speaker 14: to work in our podcast business very very early on,
Speaker 14: back when they were three shows. I used to produce
Speaker 14: you and Andrew Data or in this Glorious Smith. That
Speaker 14: was the first time we worked very very closely.
Speaker 7: Together, which was his main Amelia on Tell Me, which.
Speaker 14: Is our political podcast back in the day. And then
Speaker 14: I've worked in various other sort of commercial and product roles.
Speaker 1: I remember when you jumped from editorial to commercial, we
Speaker 1: felt quite betrayed, didn't we Yes.
Speaker 10: Yes, he jumped to commercial and then like spearheaded, because
Speaker 10: you're not going to be very good at saying what
Speaker 10: you've done behind the scenes. But here's how I understand it.
Speaker 10: You have spearheaded subscriptions, which is really important as a business.
Speaker 14: Something something In twenty twenty one, I launched our subscription business,
Speaker 14: which is very transformational for us.
Speaker 10: Yes, so acquiring different podcasts, that's another thing that you've done,
Speaker 10: rolling out a new website, rolling out the app, all
Speaker 10: that kind of stuff, and that's been quite behind the scenes,
Speaker 10: like out louders wouldn't know who.
Speaker 14: Yeah, my favorite part of coming to work every day
Speaker 14: and being in this business is doing the work.
Speaker 1: He me me it was this always the plan? I
Speaker 1: bet this is what lots of people would want to know.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Jesse just referenced the family business element of this, and
Speaker 1: that's very front and center this. You know, it is
Speaker 1: a family business. Was it always the plan that Luca
Speaker 1: would become this.
Speaker 4: Why you had a son?
Speaker 8: And it was never the play. It was honestly never
Speaker 8: the plan. You know, we looked externally for nat and
Speaker 8: she was just the most phenomenal appointment, and she's just
Speaker 8: been so wonderful for the business. But when we found
Speaker 8: out that she was moving on and she had another role,
Speaker 8: we had some hard conversation. They actually weren't hard conversations
Speaker 8: because we looked around and we said, does anyone know
Speaker 8: the business better than Luca?
Speaker 7: No? Is he going to copy it because he's the
Speaker 7: boss's son.
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 8: Do we still need to do what's the best thing
Speaker 8: for the business anyway?
Speaker 7: Of course we do.
Speaker 10: You get to choose because your own the business. You
Speaker 10: get to make bad decisions if you so feel like it.
Speaker 10: And who's going to wear those bad decisions? You are,
Speaker 10: and then Christmas is gonna be awkward, so.
Speaker 1: You kind of worse reminding people that before Nat Jason,
Speaker 1: your husband and co founder on it.
Speaker 7: Was the CEO, right, Yeah, we kind.
Speaker 8: Of chose roles for ourselves when it was just the
Speaker 8: two of us in a lounge room and it didn't
Speaker 8: really matter much. I don't remember what my role was,
Speaker 8: and I still don't really year.
Speaker 10: It's incredibly confusing.
Speaker 7: Like shoes, I just think of myself as co founder.
Speaker 8: Jace was CEO for many years, and he was of
Speaker 8: a similar mold, very behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: And that's what I guess is that in a way.
Speaker 1: Many people who know you guys would say that Luca
Speaker 1: is very like Jason in lots of ways.
Speaker 4: Do you think that.
Speaker 7: I think he's a real mix.
Speaker 8: What's interesting is that if you think that I'm the
Speaker 8: art and Jason is the science, Luca is a mix.
Speaker 8: He's got such a good content brain, and I think
Speaker 8: that's why he and Jesse are such so compatible. He
Speaker 8: understands contents so well, and yet he understands the whole
Speaker 8: side of the business that I don't even understand or
Speaker 8: focus much on. Also, so I think that we knew
Speaker 8: that there was going to be pushed back, but we
Speaker 8: take our responsibility of not just our core purpose, but
Speaker 8: the responsibility we have employing one hundred and thirty staff,
Speaker 8: ninety five percent of whom are women, and we're not
Speaker 8: going to put in someone who can't do this job
Speaker 8: just because we like him and we're related to him,
Speaker 8: if it's going to potentially risk the jobs and the
Speaker 8: livelihoods of those people. Like every decision we make for
Speaker 8: the business, it's with that in mind. That's why it's
Speaker 8: so high pressure, you know, being the owner of a business.
Speaker 10: And I think I would have thought before that, like
Speaker 10: CEO is like the face of you know, and especially
Speaker 10: in this moment of like the em agreed. You know
Speaker 10: how we always talk on it loud.
Speaker 7: He's going to want his own podcast in a minute.
Speaker 10: Well, this is the thing, right, My CEO isn't. And
Speaker 10: I suppose that there's there's part of you that goes
Speaker 10: a man is the boss of Mum and maya like,
Speaker 10: and that might feel incompatible, but you're not. The face
Speaker 10: of Holly is the face.
Speaker 7: Of that, Yes, she really is.
Speaker 8: She's what's so interesting is that as the face, you
Speaker 8: have a certain pressure. So every time there's some shit
Speaker 8: written about us that's not true, or every time anyone
Speaker 8: in the whole company is perceived to do something wrong,
Speaker 8: it'll be my face attached to it, right, looking always
Speaker 8: so low ways to find the unhinged pictures. So that
Speaker 8: sucks and I hate it, but you know I'm used
Speaker 8: to it. But then the burden of being the CEO
Speaker 8: is that you're awake at night knowing that the bottom
Speaker 8: line is your responsibility.
Speaker 7: And that's why you need a really good leadership team.
Speaker 1: I know you don't know how old you are. You're
Speaker 1: twenty eight. Let's just get that on the table. Some
Speaker 1: people will say that's too young to be a CEO.
Speaker 1: What do you say to that.
Speaker 14: Look, In the last four years five years in the business,
Speaker 14: like my role, you know, prior Ton's News has been
Speaker 14: Chief Operations off COO and also Chief Product officer. You know,
Speaker 14: I've led mostly from behind the scenes three of our
Speaker 14: sort of or four of our biggest transformations in the business.
Speaker 14: One of them, you know, around the strategy behind our
Speaker 14: podcast expansion and pivoting into video or expanding to video.
Speaker 14: Another of them, as Jesse mentioned, more of a behind
Speaker 14: the scenes, you know, revenue diversification play, but around launching
Speaker 14: and scaling our subscription business which includes a fitness app
Speaker 14: and other things to try and diversify a business from
Speaker 14: being just advertiser funded to being a mix of advertiser
Speaker 14: and subscription funded. And then just recently last year, you know,
Speaker 14: launching a full overhaul of our website and app and
Speaker 14: a bunch of our technology.
Speaker 8: To me, that stuff is so tedious, it's so boring,
Speaker 8: but it's absolutely crucial.
Speaker 1: And you've been that's right hand, but also steering your
Speaker 1: own ship on all that stuff for a long time,
Speaker 1: which is important. It's not like you were in the
Speaker 1: back post room and somebody suddenly went QBC.
Speaker 9: Like that.
Speaker 14: There hasn't been in a day go by in the
Speaker 14: last probably ten years, but really intensively in the last
Speaker 14: five where I haven't spent most of that day thinking
Speaker 14: about our business strategy and really stepping into this role.
Speaker 4: There's no change there.
Speaker 10: Yeah, and yes, you're twenty eight and how do you
Speaker 10: feel about it there?
Speaker 9: Well, in terms.
Speaker 1: Of some questions, yeah, okay, sorry, on.
Speaker 10: The thing of experience, I think it's a really valid question,
Speaker 10: like twenty eight is incredibly young to be a CEO,
Speaker 10: but the fact that you've lived and breed this business,
Speaker 10: like I think that that dog years.
Speaker 4: It's also bloody young to have three kids, isn't it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: twins at home.
Speaker 1: I so want to get to that. But I just
Speaker 1: have to ask me about the man question. Oh yes,
Speaker 1: because there were As Jesse alluded to, there will be
Speaker 1: people who will say, why is it a problem that
Speaker 1: Luca is a man in charge of a women's media company.
Speaker 10: It sounds like an out loud segment.
Speaker 9: It does a little bit for this week.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: To me?
Speaker 8: If you look at what I call purpose, which has
Speaker 8: never changed, making the world a better place for women
Speaker 8: and girls. I don't see men as being excluded from them. Yeah,
Speaker 8: I see them as being crucial to helping us make
Speaker 8: that happen.
Speaker 1: The reason I wanted you to come today, yeah, other
Speaker 1: than that, I wanted to see you.
Speaker 8: Hi. Hi.
Speaker 10: And I'm having a really good headache dress yesterday, And
Speaker 10: I said, guys, why don't we get these cameras out?
Speaker 9: Hear me out, let's get a camera.
Speaker 7: Someone gives her a new job, so there's a reason
Speaker 7: for me to be on the desk.
Speaker 1: How you feel about this because in your house right, well,
Speaker 1: I mean professionally because you work at MoMA Mia, right,
Speaker 1: so that's interesting. But personally, in your house, you have
Speaker 1: got baby twins and a toddler, and your husband has
Speaker 1: just taken on a massive job. Would you like to
Speaker 1: kill him?
Speaker 9: Always?
Speaker 10: But then it's sometimes nice to have a card in
Speaker 10: the back pocket. And this is what a friend of
Speaker 10: mine recently was driving home. She had two of her
Speaker 10: little kids in the car, and her husband wasn't feeling
Speaker 10: very well, so he stayed home and she was driving
Speaker 10: home and she got pulled over because her car wasn't
Speaker 10: registered and her husband was meant to do it, and
Speaker 10: she called me and went, how do I play this?
Speaker 10: And I said, what you've got is you've got a card, right,
Speaker 10: put it in the pocket.
Speaker 9: Quiet.
Speaker 10: They get scared. When you get quiet, you don't want
Speaker 10: to do yelling. You don't want to start playing them
Speaker 10: all throwing balls here, there and everywhere.
Speaker 4: You put it in the pocket.
Speaker 10: And then when you need want require that's when you go,
Speaker 10: you know what, Oh yeah, absolutely take this. But if
Speaker 10: you take this big job, you do all the nighttime
Speaker 10: wakeups or you do. I think that we need to
Speaker 10: make sure that we still have like time off as
Speaker 10: a family or whatever. And I'm just like, there are
Speaker 10: like sacred points of our week where I am not
Speaker 10: going to And I've actually thought about this so much.
Speaker 10: And I'm also trying to convince Luca like to do
Speaker 10: like pre ceo couples counseling.
Speaker 7: That's a really good idea.
Speaker 10: The reason why is I have seen couples and heard
Speaker 10: so many stories of like the guy who and it
Speaker 10: is often a man with young families who is just
Speaker 10: so like wedded to work, uses that as an escape
Speaker 10: because sometimes I think works easy asier.
Speaker 7: That's me, Yes, you've seen it in me too.
Speaker 10: Well, I think that well, you're like still married. I'm
Speaker 10: thinking of a lot of people I know who their
Speaker 10: marriage it costs them their marriage, right, because it's like.
Speaker 8: I've got a theory about this because Jason and I
Speaker 8: have you know, it's very intense running your own business,
Speaker 8: but the fact that we're both in it makes it
Speaker 8: a hundred times easier because I can't imagine what it
Speaker 8: would be like. And Luca, You've always said this that
Speaker 8: it's just easier when your family and your partner and
Speaker 8: your friends and holy and your holy A're all in
Speaker 8: the same you know, the same.
Speaker 4: Is really nice.
Speaker 14: Not having to go home and then if something happened
Speaker 14: at work, I have to explain who this person is
Speaker 14: and what a podcast is and all of the background.
Speaker 4: It's all just one yeah, and it's incredibly efficient.
Speaker 1: But you also have a big career and like a
Speaker 1: lot of that career is at Mamma Mia, but some
Speaker 1: of it is not. Like you're you're a writer. You know,
Speaker 1: you write and you write books, you write screenplays, you
Speaker 1: do lots of things.
Speaker 4: You win twins Fest that one time.
Speaker 10: Okay, that was a really fun event. Okay, And the
Speaker 10: fact that you still make fun of me isn't appropriate.
Speaker 10: Sorry that Mama Maya didn't produce twins Fest, but that
Speaker 10: was my first pitch, twins Fest twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 9: I'll headline.
Speaker 1: So how are you feeling about it?
Speaker 4: Be honest, I don't I don't know.
Speaker 10: I'm just trying to work out. Mine is more about
Speaker 10: what I want our lives to look like week to week. Yeah,
Speaker 10: And I'm also aware that when I've gone and I've
Speaker 10: done the TV stuff and you know, I've written the
Speaker 10: books and whatever, Luca has unfortunately supported me every single
Speaker 10: step of the way, and it's always we are on
Speaker 10: the same team. We're on the same team. So with this,
Speaker 10: we are on the same team. But on a Saturday morning,
Speaker 10: between these hours, we have got to be boundaried because
Speaker 10: I don't want to live in a house with someone
Speaker 10: who's like constantly their heads somewhere else. Like our family
Speaker 10: is also a massive priority right now. So I am
Speaker 10: just ensuring that you know, it's not.
Speaker 4: I think the conversation on you.
Speaker 14: It actually doesn't because the conversation that we've had and
Speaker 14: I'm very I'm very pro preemptive couples counseling, by the way, Yeah, I.
Speaker 10: Don't know if he's going to book.
Speaker 7: It's going to.
Speaker 10: Book, it's going to be married, she's.
Speaker 8: Going to be wearing, and I need to be on
Speaker 8: the couch.
Speaker 7: We have thoughts as.
Speaker 14: Suggestions because, as I said before, there hasn't been a
Speaker 14: day go by in the last five or ten years
Speaker 14: when I haven't spent most of that day thinking about
Speaker 14: business strategy and this company. In my mind, it won't
Speaker 14: be even nearly as much of a shift as it
Speaker 14: would be for the average person's stepping into a CEO role.
Speaker 10: Well, that's what I'm like, Well, you know it's going
Speaker 10: to be three a m. Wake ups, like all the stress,
Speaker 10: everything on your mind, and it's going to be jumping
Speaker 10: on on a Saturday afternoon and diditor And you're like,
Speaker 10: I already do that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, already do that.
Speaker 14: So it's not that I will be less stressed than
Speaker 14: the average CEO. It's that the step up is incredibly
Speaker 14: marginal in my mind.
Speaker 7: But also we've got an extraordinary leadership team.
Speaker 8: I think what a CEO's job, to come back to
Speaker 8: your original question, what a CEO's job actually is is
Speaker 8: supporting those people and just helping getting out of their
Speaker 8: way and letting them be as brilliant as they are.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that, because obviously
Speaker 1: this isn't the first that our excellent team have nearly
Speaker 1: one hundred women, one men, and the few men. Mom
Speaker 1: may have heard about this. You've spoken to them, You've
Speaker 1: laid out you know your hopes for this. I guess
Speaker 1: does it feel like an enormous responsibility the team, the staff,
Speaker 1: or is that almost a comfort because you know you've
Speaker 1: got so many great people at your back.
Speaker 14: It does feel like an enormous responsibilit But I feel
Speaker 14: extremely ready for that. The team that we have here
Speaker 14: and the people all across the business, across departments, in
Speaker 14: senior roles, in junior roles. This is the best team
Speaker 14: in the country. And I have not a single doubt
Speaker 14: about that, or I wouldn't feel as calm and ready
Speaker 14: as I do. So, yes, it is absolutely a big responsibility.
Speaker 14: I'd be worried for anyone who stepped into a role
Speaker 14: like this and thought that it wasn't. But I'm ready
Speaker 14: and I'm incredibly excited.
Speaker 1: People outside the business will always ask me, They asked
Speaker 1: me all the time what it's like to work with me?
Speaker 4: What's it like crazy?
Speaker 1: Well, obviously, what I say about that everyone I know
Speaker 1: who's worked with you or alongside you or need like,
Speaker 1: the question goes away because you're just good at what
Speaker 1: you do, calm, reasonable, the absolute opposite of the Brady
Speaker 1: boss's son, which is a stereotype in people's heads. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that exists, but the absolute opposite of that stereotype.
Speaker 1: It comes in swinging themselves around telling people what to do.
Speaker 9: You've always been You're.
Speaker 1: Good at listening in my experience, and you're good at
Speaker 1: problem solving. But also when people work with you, that
Speaker 1: question like it disappears.
Speaker 4: And that's what I care about.
Speaker 14: What I care about is not whatever the gossip mags
Speaker 14: are going to write, I'm not going to write. It's
Speaker 14: earning the respect of the colleagues and the people here
Speaker 14: who I get to work shoulder to shoulder with every
Speaker 14: day and who care as much about a core purpose
Speaker 14: as I do.
Speaker 1: What about you and the scrutiny, Jesse, because it's going
Speaker 1: to come in your way too, you know it is.
Speaker 10: Yes, I feel like everyone has certain buttons. You can
Speaker 10: deal with all of this, and then there's some things
Speaker 10: that just getcha that you're just like, Oh that for you.
Speaker 10: Mine is when I get accused of nepotism, and I'm like,
Speaker 10: I didn't come out of me as vagina. I did
Speaker 10: not know. I have met that woman as an adult,
Speaker 10: and I worked here before I met Luca, and I
Speaker 10: feel like after a peep.
Speaker 8: Out then to get that on the record, we were
Speaker 8: out loud before you yeah started.
Speaker 9: And I just know what the story is going to become.
Speaker 10: And then Claire gets dragged into it, and then it's
Speaker 10: just like that annoys me in saying that people are
Speaker 10: going to talk. I know how how it looks. Before
Speaker 10: I was here and I knew the dynamics and I
Speaker 10: worked in the business, I probably would have looked at
Speaker 10: it and gone twenty eight year old man running Muma
Speaker 10: maya question mark, Like I probably would have thought that.
Speaker 10: But now I just have this impulse to shut the
Speaker 10: door and under the bed, hide well and just be
Speaker 10: there just with the five of us.
Speaker 4: You mean our family, not Holly and Maya.
Speaker 10: No, I did not mean Holly and We're not That's
Speaker 10: that is a lock true with your mayor on the.
Speaker 8: My favorite thing is that out louders who are new
Speaker 8: to the show, because we've grown a lot.
Speaker 14: This Yeah, but this is the first episode you're listening to.
Speaker 8: That's funny, go back even now, and Jessie was not mad.
Speaker 8: People who sometimes in the out Loudest group they would
Speaker 8: be like, wait to marry Jesse are late.
Speaker 1: All right, we've got to finish.
Speaker 9: But there's a couple of things I need to know.
Speaker 1: I need to know, Luca, is anything going to change
Speaker 1: for our out louders who love this show because you're
Speaker 1: the boss. That's the one thing people want to know.
Speaker 1: Is he going to come in and change everything.
Speaker 10: Is to outlouds just going to be Luca talking to
Speaker 10: himself three three mics, and he's going to be like this,
Speaker 10: I've been talking about the whole couple.
Speaker 14: Of lots we actually have every time I had it
Speaker 14: on at work the other day on my screen and
Speaker 14: Holly had it on a different stream, and Holly sits
Speaker 14: behind me, and then I'm like, oh, your stream is
Speaker 14: behind come and.
Speaker 4: Watch it here.
Speaker 14: And so then we were watching the end of like
Speaker 14: Columbia Egypt a Tuesday.
Speaker 7: We're also working very hard.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've forgot.
Speaker 10: Just going to be you talking to yourself now for
Speaker 10: out louders, because you're the boss.
Speaker 14: It's just going to be me and hollytook about football. Okay,
Speaker 14: nothing changes for out Louders. Our podcasts are our fastest
Speaker 14: growing part of our business and that's not going to change.
Speaker 14: They're going to get more attention, and we want to
Speaker 14: be building out a lot of our show brands more,
Speaker 14: providing more opportunities for our community and for our audience
Speaker 14: across all of our shows, and really building them out
Speaker 14: beyond being just shows.
Speaker 10: Your mother in law will continue to post inappropriate things
Speaker 10: in the Outlauders that gets removed by Adminton and Stevens.
Speaker 14: I have to moderate her per comment often often no
Speaker 14: change to out Louders in the short term is the
Speaker 14: easy answer to.
Speaker 1: That, what's this relationship going to be like the mother
Speaker 1: son relationship going to be?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: With you as CEO, because I I'm Jesse, we worked
Speaker 1: under we used a lot of people in the business
Speaker 1: who were not related to you would call it mom
Speaker 1: and dad.
Speaker 8: Call.
Speaker 1: Mom and dad of fighting, but you were, I mean
Speaker 1: professionally like.
Speaker 7: We'd be like can we do this?
Speaker 1: And they would be like yes, and Jason wud be like, no, yes,
Speaker 1: go on have a fight.
Speaker 8: You.
Speaker 1: In recent years you've stepped back a bit from that
Speaker 1: level of hands onness in the decisions that the business
Speaker 1: are making, all those things like do you think that
Speaker 1: this next era of Mamma Mia, the Luca Lavine era
Speaker 1: of MoMA Mia, what are you going to be doing?
Speaker 1: How do you see that relationship?
Speaker 8: Well, it's so interesting that Luca has always been very
Speaker 8: clearly climbing up the ladder and I've been climbing down it.
Speaker 8: Like the three of us actually have that in common
Speaker 8: where we all started climbing the ladder here and you
Speaker 8: put you before here, and then we all went, oh,
Speaker 8: hang on. I actually want to get back to the
Speaker 8: cold face because what we love doing is making. So
Speaker 8: for me, it's actually a return to that. To me,
Speaker 8: it's a return to making. It's a return to getting
Speaker 8: back on the out loud desk and being behind the
Speaker 8: scenes as well and writing and doing all of that.
Speaker 8: I don't want to get further into management. I feel
Speaker 8: very confident in the management team we've got. We've got
Speaker 8: incredible leaders. There's so many people who've got this from
Speaker 8: a management point of view, and in terms of the
Speaker 8: dynamic between Luca and I, I really one of the
Speaker 8: things I need is people who can tell me no
Speaker 8: and people who I respect who can tell me no,
Speaker 8: And you know Luka has always been that, so yeah,
Speaker 8: no change.
Speaker 1: There, And how do you see that where you're going to?
Speaker 14: I see my job is pointing me as a creator
Speaker 14: in the right direction, because sometimes she wants to go
Speaker 14: many directions at once, all at the same time, and
Speaker 14: sometimes those directions are opposite to one another. You're working
Speaker 14: on a Prettian creative project at the moment, which the
Speaker 14: outladers will hear more about soon.
Speaker 2: I thinkn it shed of the strategy.
Speaker 10: I think a lot about Australian media. I didn't understand
Speaker 10: how rare independent media in Australia was. Yeah, do you
Speaker 10: know it is the most centralized media landscape in the
Speaker 10: world's second to Brazil to have a How old is
Speaker 10: this business? Nearly twenty Yeah, nearly twenty year old independent
Speaker 10: media company that doesn't have other stakeholders, that is thriving,
Speaker 10: that has been at the forefront of the podcast boom.
Speaker 10: All of that is just something that I am so
Speaker 10: endlessly proud of to like have ridden that wave. And
Speaker 10: so I just think that so you know, in all
Speaker 10: the kind of feedback and criticism, which whatever you wear it,
Speaker 10: but that's a footnote I think I don't.
Speaker 4: Think that's even a footnote.
Speaker 14: I think that's the thing that I mean, I feel
Speaker 14: proud of every day to have been a part of
Speaker 14: that for ten years and to have worked alongside so
Speaker 14: many brilliant people who have made those headlines and made
Speaker 14: those shows and written that content. And you know, this
Speaker 14: business has just gone from strength to strength thanks to
Speaker 14: the brilliant people in it, and that's where we're going again.
Speaker 1: Congratulations, Luke Levine. Thanks, I'm very excited that you are
Speaker 1: now the boss of this business.
Speaker 10: I think she's kissing your ass ever since you became
Speaker 10: That's what I think.
Speaker 1: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
Speaker 1: which we have recorded this podcast.