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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mea podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges the

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Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters. This podcast was recorded

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Speaker 1: on Hello and Welcome to a special episode of True

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Speaker 1: Crime Conversations. I'm your host Jemma Bath. Today I'm sharing

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Speaker 1: an episode from over five years ago. One of the

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Speaker 1: first cases we ever covered on the podcast. Yesterday marked

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Speaker 1: of the disappearance of the Beaumont children, Jane, Anna and Grant,

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Speaker 1: who vanished without a trace. Their case remains one of

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Speaker 1: Australia's most enduring and heartbreaking mysteries. On January twenty sixth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, the children, aged nine, seven and four,

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Speaker 1: left their Somerton Park home for a day at Glenelg Beach,

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Speaker 1: but never returned. In this episode, you'll hear from Jesse Stevens,

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Speaker 1: former host of True Crime Conversations, interviewing Stuart Mullins, a

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Speaker 1: man who grew up just streets away from the Beaumont family,

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Speaker 1: believes he knows exactly what happened to the children and

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Speaker 1: who is responsible.

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Speaker 2: This episode of True Crime Conversations contains discussions of alleged

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Speaker 2: child abuse, abduction, murder, and the recounting of traumatic events

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Speaker 2: listener discretion is advised. It was Australia Day nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: six when Nancy Beaumont was awoken by two of her children,

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Speaker 2: seven year old Anna and four year old Grant, jumping

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Speaker 2: on her bed. As the temperature climbed into the forties.

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Speaker 2: They begged their mum to go to the beach. There

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Speaker 2: were only a few days left of school holidays, and

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Speaker 2: the Beaumont children wanted to make the most of it.

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Speaker 2: They lived only two and a half kilometers or so

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Speaker 2: from Glenelg Beach near Adelaide, South Australia. The cool water

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Speaker 2: and surrounding sprinklers were a respite from the almost unbearable

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Speaker 2: heat of summer. The beach was just about their favorite

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Speaker 2: place in the world. Nine year old Jane, the eldest,

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Speaker 2: was put in charge of taking her younger brother and

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Speaker 2: sister to the beach, up the road and ensuring they

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Speaker 2: were all back by lunchtime. Nancy walked her three children

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Speaker 2: up the road to the bus stop and placed some

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Speaker 2: money in Jane's hand, instructing her to bring home some lunch.

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Speaker 2: She ferewelled them, sure she'd see them again in just

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Speaker 2: a few hours. She never did, though Apart from a

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Speaker 2: few critical sightings at the beach, no one would ever

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Speaker 2: see the three Beaumont children again. I'm Jesse Stephens and

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Speaker 2: this is True Crime Conversations, exploring the world's most notorious

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Speaker 2: crimes by speaking to the people who know the most

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Speaker 2: about them. In this episode, I'm talking to Stuart Mullins,

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Speaker 2: co author of the book The Satin Man, uncovering the

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Speaker 2: mystery of the Missing Beaumont Children. Stuart is more than

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Speaker 2: a researcher. He grew up only streets away from the

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Speaker 2: three Beaumont children. He's also working on a new book

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Speaker 2: due for release early next year. Stuart believes wholeheartedly that

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Speaker 2: he knows exactly what happened to Jane, Anna and Grant

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Speaker 2: on that fateful day in nineteen sixty six. It was

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Speaker 2: January twenty sixth, nineteen sixty six, when Nancy Beaumont kissed

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Speaker 2: her three kids goodbye at the bus stop as they

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Speaker 2: set off to go to the beach. The eldest, Jane,

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Speaker 2: was nine. I wanted to ask you, was that unusual

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Speaker 2: for her to sort of be in charge of a

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Speaker 2: seven year old and a four year old sibling as

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Speaker 2: they went to the beach.

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Speaker 3: No, this was usual back in the nineteen sixties. I

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Speaker 3: can I can tell you firsthand. I was born in

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Speaker 3: glenel I was the same age as Anna and I

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Speaker 3: lived about three and a half lives. What is up

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Speaker 3: the road? Children had the responsibility. We went on buses,

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Speaker 3: We walked to the beach, which was Collobinan's. We rode

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Speaker 3: our bikes pretty well anywhere, as long as you were

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Speaker 3: home before the street lights came on. That was the

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Speaker 3: mother's rule which went right throughout the nineteen fifties and

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixties. And for me personally, I was seven years

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Speaker 3: old at the time I took the bus to Glenelg.

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Speaker 3: I took the bus to the Gleenelg by myself. This

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Speaker 3: was not unusual. So what Jane was doing was what

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Speaker 3: other families were doing.

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Speaker 2: And what can you tell us about the Beaumont family.

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Speaker 2: So there were three kids and the parents. The father

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Speaker 2: worked and the mother was at home. What do we

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Speaker 2: know about what kind of people they were.

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Speaker 3: I've spoken to Jane's best friend who sat with her

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Speaker 3: at school. She knew Jane for around four years. They

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Speaker 3: were nearly inseparable. She described that the children as latch key,

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Speaker 3: meaning that Jane was more of a parentified child, as

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Speaker 3: most of us were. Mister Beaumont was a traveling salesman

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Speaker 3: for Lynn Coop's linen industry that took him out to

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Speaker 3: the countryside. He wasn't happy that he was away from

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Speaker 3: the children, but the money he earned paid mortgage. Missus

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Speaker 3: Beaumont was a stay at home mum, but she was

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Speaker 3: as this friend said, she wasn't there. She was usually

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Speaker 3: at friends places or away. This friend said that she

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Speaker 3: had never seen mister and Missus Beaumont at home. It

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Speaker 3: was Jane looking after Grant looking after Anna. But again

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Speaker 3: it is not unusual. I came from a family of six.

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Speaker 3: I just lived up the road. I very rarely saw

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Speaker 3: mom and dad until the evening. We were out all

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Speaker 3: day at the school holidays. That's what we did, and

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Speaker 3: then we returned for dinner. So Jane's and Anna and

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Speaker 3: Grant's childhood was exactly the thing. The beach were very

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Speaker 3: close by. There was Somerton Beach, Brighton Beach, and the

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Speaker 3: very very popular Glenelg Beach. That's where we spent most

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Speaker 3: of our time, either Brighton which had the Jetty or

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Speaker 3: Glenelg Collie Reserve, and we would spend all day there

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Speaker 3: and Jane was the mother hen she was very mature

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Speaker 3: for her age. She loved reading. She would go through

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Speaker 3: several books per month and so she was very avid,

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Speaker 3: very learned. She was nearly top of her class and

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Speaker 3: very independent.

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Speaker 2: So that was during the school holidays and they've jumped

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Speaker 2: on the bus in the morning and they were expected

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Speaker 2: home at around midday, weren't they.

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Speaker 3: That's correct. They took the bus roughly about nine forty

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Speaker 3: five ten o'clock. It was a very hot day. It

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Speaker 3: was going to reach one hundred degrees fahrenheit in days

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Speaker 3: terms around forty two forty three degrees celsius. And in

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Speaker 3: South Australia, most of South Australia is a desert, so

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Speaker 3: you've got this strong northerly wind coming down from the desert,

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Speaker 3: and so your only respite is either the Adelaide Hills,

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Speaker 3: adventuring the streams or the Torrens River, or you would

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Speaker 3: go down the beach. Obviously, this day the children wanted

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Speaker 3: to go down the beach. Their friends were down there,

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Speaker 3: and it was the last day or the last few

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Speaker 3: days of the school holidays. So you would catch the bus.

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Speaker 3: Usually Jane, Anna and Grant would walk to the beach.

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Speaker 3: It was only two and a half kilometers from their

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Speaker 3: place at Somerton Park. Because it was so hot, Grant

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Speaker 3: wasn't wearing a t shirt. They said, we'll take the

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Speaker 3: bus and I'll let you go to the beach as

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Speaker 3: long as you're home by lunchtime. And here's some money

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Speaker 3: for the bus ride, and some pies and some cakes

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Speaker 3: and some fizzy drink for us to bring home.

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Speaker 2: So what did Nancy do when she's waiting for the

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Speaker 2: kids at twelve and they don't come? What was her

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Speaker 2: next move?

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Speaker 3: Is all parents, you are always worried about your children

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Speaker 3: once they go, especially if they don't come back on time.

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Speaker 3: These days, you're frantically on your iPhone. You'll be texting

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Speaker 3: them or calling them. With missus Beaumont. They didn't come

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Speaker 3: home on the twelve o'clock bus. Her natural reaction was, Okay,

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Speaker 3: well they missed that bus. They're on the next one now.

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Speaker 3: The next one came within about forty minutes, maybe a

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Speaker 3: bit longer. When they weren't on that bus, that's when

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Speaker 3: she got worried. That's where the motherly instinct kicks in.

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Speaker 3: She spoke to a friend, a friend of course said, look,

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Speaker 3: they've just missed the bus. They might be walking home,

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Speaker 3: but Nancy didn't want to follow the usual path they take,

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Speaker 3: just in case they did come back by a bus.

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Speaker 3: They lied and got home and she was out there

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Speaker 3: looking for them. But the next bus. It was that

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Speaker 3: next one that really set the alarms off. They weren't

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Speaker 3: on the next bus. This was completely unusual. Where were they.

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Speaker 3: That's when she became very frantic. And that was around

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Speaker 3: two o'clock. So you can imagine as parents, if you

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Speaker 3: got children, then the two hours and they're still not home.

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Speaker 2: And Jim unexpectedly came home, didn't He was meant to

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Speaker 2: be away, and then he turned up.

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Speaker 3: He was away. He left very early in the morning.

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Speaker 3: He was working for Lyncott Linen and he was servicing

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Speaker 3: country towns of South Australia. He was out near Snowtown

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Speaker 3: and he did come back early that day and he

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Speaker 3: could see that his wife was very distraught because it

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Speaker 3: was around three four o'clock and they still had not returned.

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Speaker 3: So of course Jim and Nancy got in the car

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Speaker 3: and went around the streets looking for them, but of

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Speaker 3: course couldn't find them.

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Speaker 4: Both of them are living in hope that the children

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Speaker 4: had ever stayed there, stay at the beach, or that

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Speaker 4: they'd gone to their friend's places and stay there to play.

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Speaker 4: I'm still living in that hope that everything was all right,

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Speaker 4: because naturally, as time went on, they became more and

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Speaker 4: more concerned. And that was the situation.

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Speaker 2: And so when they decided to eventually contact police, what

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Speaker 2: was the first response of the police force.

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Speaker 3: Mister and missus Beaumont went to the Glenelg Police station

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Speaker 3: in the late afternoon. They met the detective constable on

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Speaker 3: duty that day, which was Moss and Matters Moston is

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Speaker 3: in fact my cousin. He recollects that day very vividly.

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Speaker 3: In fact, he'll never forget it. They were very distraught.

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Speaker 3: They reported that their children were missing. Now the detectives

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Speaker 3: at the station would tell them that they will turn up,

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Speaker 3: so they could be hiding, they could have done this

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Speaker 3: or kind of done that. They weren't put down as

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Speaker 3: missing children. Now this is not unusually. In nineteen sixty six,

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Speaker 3: it was always they'll turn up soon. The abduction of

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Speaker 3: three children had never happened before, and never happened since,

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Speaker 3: not just in Australia, but around the world. The idea

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Speaker 3: of abduction never entered anybody's mind. This did not happen, and.

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Speaker 2: It had only been a few hours at that point,

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Speaker 2: So what did they think had happened? What did they

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Speaker 2: say to the parents.

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Speaker 3: The first thing Moston said was don't worry, they will

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Speaker 3: turn up soon, or put a call out to the

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Speaker 3: police vehicle because they had a two way radio, to

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Speaker 3: just have a look around for them. Mister Beaumont again

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Speaker 3: got in his car and looked around for them. But

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Speaker 3: as the time ticked on thirty minutes and then an hour,

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Speaker 3: that was when the alarm bell started to ring. Even

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Speaker 3: for Moston Madison the team, they had a problem. These

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Speaker 3: children weren't home. They said, look, they could be hiding

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Speaker 3: at your house, which was highly unlikely. They could still

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Speaker 3: be playing down the sandhills. They could be at an

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Speaker 3: the friends place, but mister and missus Beaumont were very

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Speaker 3: say disbelieving of that because it was their own children.

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Speaker 3: It got to about five o'clock and that's when panic

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Speaker 3: station set in.

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Speaker 2: And so did police sort of speak to people on

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Speaker 2: the beach and see if anyone had cited the children.

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Speaker 3: Well, once the call came out and the children were

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Speaker 3: termed missing. It did hit the papers, but to see

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Speaker 3: the papers you had the evening paper. It was too

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Speaker 3: late for that, so it only hit the papers the

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Speaker 3: advertiser in the next morning. So it was only radio

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Speaker 3: and TV. TV news bulletins would come on, but not

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Speaker 3: too many people would watch black and white TV, especially

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Speaker 3: in the afternoon or that if you know, they were

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Speaker 3: listening to the radio. Other than that, you really had

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Speaker 3: difficulty getting the word out that these children were missing. However,

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Speaker 3: by about six pm we'd definitely got out through a

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Speaker 3: word of mouth and people started looking the children. And

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Speaker 3: in fact, mister Boem previously worked for Adelaide taxi company

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Speaker 3: and the call went out to them and they got

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Speaker 3: into their taxis and went around the suburbs of Gleneal

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Speaker 3: and further to see if they could spot the children,

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Speaker 3: but they had just disappeared off the place of the planet.

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Speaker 4: Deployment of uniform police came down later that evening about

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Speaker 4: thirty police officer uniform police officers and it was organized

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Speaker 4: that we do a thorough search of the surrounding area,

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Speaker 4: the beach area to sand Hills north and south of

223
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Speaker 4: Canald and all the drains and paddocks and surrounding areas.

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Speaker 4: Sal Research Savannas was put on the airport and on

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Speaker 4: the interstate rail line in case someone was everything to

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Speaker 4: take them away. All my arterial rays leading out of

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Speaker 4: the state. Roadblocks were set up there in case. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: there could have been a time lapse of some six

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Speaker 4: or eight hours before the public really became a the

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Speaker 4: children were missing, and that time, okay, that the offender

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Speaker 4: quite a lot of time to get away.

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Speaker 2: Was there any sort of, you know, items that they

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Speaker 2: dropped or any sign of them that the police were

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00:14:26,022 --> 00:14:26,822
Speaker 2: able to recover.

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Speaker 3: There was no items that they recovered. There's never been

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Speaker 3: any physical evidence regarding their disappearance. However, as reports started

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Speaker 3: coming in, people were lining up at the police station

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Speaker 3: where moston and the detectives were taking statements from well

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00:14:44,822 --> 00:14:49,822
Speaker 3: meaning public. But that line started to snake quite extensively,

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Speaker 3: and in the police station they had would you believe,

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Speaker 3: it's hard to fathom now, they had one phone, one

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Speaker 3: line in and that ran hot, and the detectives had

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Speaker 3: to do their own typing. They had to type each report,

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Speaker 3: and there was hundreds of them. They were completely inundated.

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Speaker 3: As Matters said to me back when I first interviewed him.

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Speaker 3: He said, we didn't know what we were looking for.

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Speaker 3: We didn't know what had occurred. Now this occurred. They

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Speaker 3: just didn't know. They were like everybody else. What happened

249
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Speaker 3: to the Beaumont children. They were completely inundated. But over

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00:15:28,822 --> 00:15:33,062
Speaker 3: the next few days some credible information came in. Apart

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Speaker 3: from all the well meaning public that came in trying

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00:15:36,742 --> 00:15:41,902
Speaker 3: to help with that, there was some really interesting information

253
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Speaker 3: that came forward. We know when the children alighted from

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Speaker 3: the bus, they walked across the Collie Reserve. Collie Reserve

255
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Speaker 3: is a beautiful, sweeping green lawns that nearly go down

256
00:15:54,422 --> 00:15:57,822
Speaker 3: to the water's edge and glenel Beach and the others

257
00:15:58,102 --> 00:16:01,502
Speaker 3: faced the Gulf of Saint Vincent's and Kanger Island that

258
00:16:01,662 --> 00:16:05,062
Speaker 3: locks the waves really coming in, so it's dead, calm

259
00:16:05,182 --> 00:16:10,222
Speaker 3: and beautiful to swim out, especially for children. They laid

260
00:16:10,222 --> 00:16:14,582
Speaker 3: their towels out near some benches that certain people sitting on.

261
00:16:14,662 --> 00:16:16,822
Speaker 3: They laid their towels out and they ran down to

262
00:16:16,862 --> 00:16:19,822
Speaker 3: the water's edge and they played frolict in the water.

263
00:16:19,942 --> 00:16:23,502
Speaker 3: Although Grant could not swim, so he was only allowed

264
00:16:23,542 --> 00:16:26,302
Speaker 3: to go out to his belly button. According to Jane's

265
00:16:26,342 --> 00:16:28,342
Speaker 3: best friend, who had been to the beach with him

266
00:16:28,622 --> 00:16:32,102
Speaker 3: several times. They came back and then played under the

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00:16:32,142 --> 00:16:37,062
Speaker 3: Collie Reserve sprinklers, which every child did. I did when

268
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Speaker 3: I was young, and that was usually to get the

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Speaker 3: sea water off you.

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Speaker 5: The thing that I'd like to impress on you all

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Speaker 5: is that everyone make sure that they're familiar with the

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00:16:46,102 --> 00:16:49,902
Speaker 5: descriptions of the three missing children. That is absolutely important.

273
00:16:49,982 --> 00:16:52,502
Speaker 5: And also make sure your friends are aware of the

274
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Speaker 5: descriptions of these children. And also if you have any

275
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Speaker 5: new Australian friends, perhaps you can you can assist them

276
00:16:58,382 --> 00:17:04,262
Speaker 5: in describing the children to them.

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Speaker 2: And there was a sense that the children had seen

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00:17:07,862 --> 00:17:10,702
Speaker 2: a man there, and there were a few witness says

279
00:17:10,742 --> 00:17:13,542
Speaker 2: who said they'd sort of been conversing with someone, but

280
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Speaker 2: it appeared that he wasn't a stranger, like it hadn't

281
00:17:16,582 --> 00:17:19,862
Speaker 2: alerted them. They weren't worried, but they'd sort of been

282
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Speaker 2: speaking to a man. What were the details about that man?

283
00:17:23,222 --> 00:17:24,422
Speaker 2: That was sort of significant.

284
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Speaker 3: I think you hit the nail on the head there,

285
00:17:27,822 --> 00:17:31,302
Speaker 3: because what we now know we didn't know in nineteen

286
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Speaker 3: sixty six. Week can look at this and sort of

287
00:17:33,502 --> 00:17:37,102
Speaker 3: put yourself in an aerial view and see what had happened. See,

288
00:17:37,102 --> 00:17:39,862
Speaker 3: those children were very eager to go to the beach

289
00:17:39,902 --> 00:17:43,622
Speaker 3: if we can retrace just back, and this would add

290
00:17:43,662 --> 00:17:46,942
Speaker 3: into what you were saying. They were really eager to

291
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Speaker 3: go to the beach. For a few reasons. It was

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Speaker 3: a stinking hot day, it was one of the last

293
00:17:52,462 --> 00:17:57,022
Speaker 3: days of the school holidays. But also Anna and Grant

294
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Speaker 3: were teasing Jane, saying, Jane's got a boyfriend. Jane's got

295
00:18:02,182 --> 00:18:05,222
Speaker 3: a boyfriend. And of course it hadn't even hurt, but

296
00:18:05,262 --> 00:18:08,062
Speaker 3: a mother didn't take much notice of it. So they

297
00:18:08,062 --> 00:18:10,222
Speaker 3: got on the Worthley's bus got down to the beach.

298
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Speaker 3: When they were at the beach, Jane was given some

299
00:18:14,222 --> 00:18:17,662
Speaker 3: money by her mother to buy pies and some pasties

300
00:18:17,702 --> 00:18:20,022
Speaker 3: and some drink to bring back for lunch. That was

301
00:18:20,102 --> 00:18:24,062
Speaker 3: eight shillings and sixpence in pre decimal currency about eighty

302
00:18:24,102 --> 00:18:27,342
Speaker 3: five cents now, however, you're spending power back in nineteen

303
00:18:27,382 --> 00:18:29,902
Speaker 3: sixty six. Was a lot more. That was to buy

304
00:18:30,022 --> 00:18:34,462
Speaker 3: lunch and bring home for Nancy and the kids to enjoy. Now.

305
00:18:34,502 --> 00:18:40,142
Speaker 3: She placed that money in her bathed clip purse and

306
00:18:40,182 --> 00:18:43,862
Speaker 3: she placed it into a light blue airline type bag.

307
00:18:44,142 --> 00:18:47,502
Speaker 3: Because it's very important, this into mason that has been

308
00:18:47,662 --> 00:18:52,702
Speaker 3: messed for over fifty years. And yet when we start

309
00:18:53,182 --> 00:18:56,742
Speaker 3: looking at it differently, we start to realize that maybe

310
00:18:56,782 --> 00:19:00,582
Speaker 3: this perpetrator to live very close to Collide Reserve. Jane

311
00:19:00,702 --> 00:19:03,822
Speaker 3: was dressed in her pink one piece bathers and she

312
00:19:03,902 --> 00:19:08,142
Speaker 3: had pale green shorts and canvas san fos with white sols.

313
00:19:08,742 --> 00:19:12,102
Speaker 3: She took with her a paperback copy of Louisa may

314
00:19:12,262 --> 00:19:15,942
Speaker 3: Or Cots Little Women, and she also carried three drying towels,

315
00:19:16,022 --> 00:19:19,782
Speaker 3: which he placed inside the ace type bag. Now Arna

316
00:19:19,902 --> 00:19:24,582
Speaker 3: wore a one piece red and white striped bather, tan

317
00:19:24,782 --> 00:19:29,022
Speaker 3: shorts and tan sandals, and she sported a bright orange

318
00:19:29,342 --> 00:19:34,782
Speaker 3: hair pin in her hair. Now Grant wore swimming trunks

319
00:19:34,822 --> 00:19:39,982
Speaker 3: with vertical white stripes under green striped shorts and red sandals.

320
00:19:40,102 --> 00:19:43,862
Speaker 3: He was not wearing a short. Now that description most

321
00:19:43,942 --> 00:19:46,782
Speaker 3: people know it these days. However, we're going to look

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00:19:46,782 --> 00:19:51,182
Speaker 3: at this very differently. Shortly, now, the children arrived at

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Speaker 3: Mosley Street, Glenelg. Their bus stop was straight across from

324
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Speaker 3: the very iconic Wenzel's Bakery, and everybody knew Wenswele's Bakery.

325
00:20:00,302 --> 00:20:02,222
Speaker 3: It was the place to go and buy your pies

326
00:20:02,262 --> 00:20:05,222
Speaker 3: and pasties and cakes, and I sort walked across the

327
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Speaker 3: Collie Reserve. There was a few bits of misinformation here.

328
00:20:12,302 --> 00:20:17,022
Speaker 3: As they were walking across to Collie Reserve, they noticed

329
00:20:17,102 --> 00:20:20,902
Speaker 3: the posting everybody had. Everybody knew their posting back in

330
00:20:20,982 --> 00:20:25,382
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty six, and that was Tom Patterson. Where Jane

331
00:20:25,422 --> 00:20:28,542
Speaker 3: called out, it's the post he gets the posty. Now.

332
00:20:28,622 --> 00:20:31,662
Speaker 3: I met Tom Patterson before he passed away, back in

333
00:20:31,702 --> 00:20:34,222
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, and he still remembers that day

334
00:20:34,342 --> 00:20:38,862
Speaker 3: very vividly. He did initially say to police that he

335
00:20:38,942 --> 00:20:41,742
Speaker 3: had seen the children in the afternoon, but he was

336
00:20:41,742 --> 00:20:44,582
Speaker 3: a bit confused because you could imagine, my god, he

337
00:20:44,662 --> 00:20:48,062
Speaker 3: knew these children so well. He saw them twice a day,

338
00:20:48,582 --> 00:20:51,662
Speaker 3: five days a week. Why twice a day because the

339
00:20:51,742 --> 00:20:56,542
Speaker 3: posty delivered letters twice a day. He later said to

340
00:20:56,622 --> 00:20:59,862
Speaker 3: the detectives that no, he actually did see them in

341
00:20:59,902 --> 00:21:03,302
Speaker 3: the morning, and that was around ten am, which works

342
00:21:03,342 --> 00:21:06,502
Speaker 3: in well, when they got off the bus, he spotted them,

343
00:21:06,542 --> 00:21:08,902
Speaker 3: and then they walked across and placed their towels and

344
00:21:08,942 --> 00:21:12,982
Speaker 3: so forth. To write, you said that the children must

345
00:21:12,982 --> 00:21:17,062
Speaker 3: have known this man. One. The first thing is Jane's

346
00:21:17,062 --> 00:21:20,142
Speaker 3: got a boyfriend. What did they mean by that? Now,

347
00:21:20,182 --> 00:21:23,902
Speaker 3: a boyfriend to a child can be you know, we're

348
00:21:23,902 --> 00:21:26,422
Speaker 3: thinking as an adult, but we're not thinking as a child.

349
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Speaker 2: It could any been an innocent sort of a conversation

350
00:21:30,462 --> 00:21:33,062
Speaker 2: she had with a you know, a man or a

351
00:21:33,102 --> 00:21:34,302
Speaker 2: boy at the beach.

352
00:21:34,622 --> 00:21:38,822
Speaker 3: And it would indicate that they had met this person previously.

353
00:21:39,182 --> 00:21:42,102
Speaker 3: There is another reason. They put their towels near the

354
00:21:42,102 --> 00:21:45,462
Speaker 3: whole Fast Bay Sailing Club, and this was the usual

355
00:21:45,582 --> 00:21:48,142
Speaker 3: place that they did put their towels, according to Jane's

356
00:21:48,182 --> 00:21:51,662
Speaker 3: best friend, it was their usual spot. But who else

357
00:21:51,822 --> 00:21:55,622
Speaker 3: was already there? It was the man i as has said.

358
00:21:55,702 --> 00:21:59,222
Speaker 3: The man was lying on the towel near the same

359
00:21:59,782 --> 00:22:01,982
Speaker 3: not too far from where the children were, and he

360
00:22:02,222 --> 00:22:04,862
Speaker 3: was watching them. He watched them come up from the

361
00:22:04,902 --> 00:22:09,582
Speaker 3: beach and run underneath the Sprenklass. So there's two. It

362
00:22:09,742 --> 00:22:15,782
Speaker 3: was already and the boyfriend it'd been there obviously. Well

363
00:22:15,822 --> 00:22:19,502
Speaker 3: it looked like he'd been there previously. This was starting

364
00:22:19,502 --> 00:22:21,942
Speaker 3: to look like a set up. And this is what

365
00:22:21,982 --> 00:22:26,142
Speaker 3: predators do. They're grooming. They started playing under the sprinklers,

366
00:22:26,462 --> 00:22:29,942
Speaker 3: and you're right, they can't back, and they walk over

367
00:22:30,022 --> 00:22:32,822
Speaker 3: to him and start jumping over him. Grant Boumont first

368
00:22:32,862 --> 00:22:36,182
Speaker 3: started jumping over him and they were laughing, followed by

369
00:22:36,222 --> 00:22:38,302
Speaker 3: Anna and then later Jane.

370
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Speaker 2: It's interesting too, because you were saying that sort of

371
00:22:42,102 --> 00:22:44,862
Speaker 2: Jane was quite bookish and shy, so the fact that

372
00:22:44,902 --> 00:22:48,542
Speaker 2: she was speaking to this person at all suggests that

373
00:22:48,582 --> 00:22:50,582
Speaker 2: there'd been some sort of rapport built.

374
00:22:51,142 --> 00:22:54,942
Speaker 3: That surprised Missus Beaumont because he had told the children,

375
00:22:55,582 --> 00:22:58,862
Speaker 3: you know, don't talk to strangers, take care of one another.

376
00:22:59,062 --> 00:23:01,942
Speaker 3: It was like, you wouldn't go over to this individual

377
00:23:02,222 --> 00:23:05,782
Speaker 3: if you didn't know him. They don't do that, and

378
00:23:06,342 --> 00:23:09,942
Speaker 3: Jane being such a mature girl, and she was quite

379
00:23:10,062 --> 00:23:14,102
Speaker 3: shock for her to go over. This is Ockham's raiser.

380
00:23:14,542 --> 00:23:18,702
Speaker 3: The simplest solution is usually the best. They knew him.

381
00:23:18,862 --> 00:23:21,382
Speaker 3: There was Grant flicking him with towels, but the man

382
00:23:21,542 --> 00:23:24,782
Speaker 3: was laughing. The children were laughing and they went back

383
00:23:25,062 --> 00:23:29,262
Speaker 3: to play under the sprinklers. This man went over to

384
00:23:29,382 --> 00:23:31,422
Speaker 3: when it was only about ten feet away, over to

385
00:23:31,462 --> 00:23:34,222
Speaker 3: the bench where he had laid his clothes, which was

386
00:23:34,222 --> 00:23:37,102
Speaker 3: a shirt, trousers, and he already had the towel, that's

387
00:23:37,102 --> 00:23:39,542
Speaker 3: all he had. He had no carry bag. He goes

388
00:23:39,582 --> 00:23:43,302
Speaker 3: over to a couple sitting there and said, he is

389
00:23:43,422 --> 00:23:47,382
Speaker 3: very chilling. Somebody has taken our money, he said, or

390
00:23:47,422 --> 00:23:51,022
Speaker 3: another couple overheard him and thought he said, somebody has

391
00:23:51,102 --> 00:23:55,302
Speaker 3: taken some of our money. Whichever it is, their money

392
00:23:55,382 --> 00:24:00,022
Speaker 3: had been taken. How in the hell did this man

393
00:24:00,382 --> 00:24:05,622
Speaker 3: know Jane Beaumont had any money? Where was her purse?

394
00:24:06,102 --> 00:24:10,342
Speaker 3: It was inside her bag. You come to conclusion very quickly.

395
00:24:10,702 --> 00:24:19,182
Speaker 3: Is compan knew because he looked inside Jane's bag? He

396
00:24:19,262 --> 00:24:24,102
Speaker 3: took her purse. What does he have? He's now got them,

397
00:24:24,582 --> 00:24:28,862
Speaker 3: He's in control. He is setting this up. They can't leave.

398
00:24:29,142 --> 00:24:32,582
Speaker 3: He's got them. And he's so nice, he's friendly, and

399
00:24:32,622 --> 00:24:36,502
Speaker 3: he's charming, but also he's very cunning and manipulate. He's

400
00:24:37,102 --> 00:24:41,182
Speaker 3: manipulating these children without their knowledge. In fact, you could

401
00:24:41,262 --> 00:24:42,902
Speaker 3: do this to adults and they wouldn't know.

402
00:24:43,262 --> 00:24:46,862
Speaker 2: And was that a physical description of him at all?

403
00:24:46,942 --> 00:24:49,422
Speaker 2: Were these people able to give an approximate age or

404
00:24:49,462 --> 00:24:50,302
Speaker 2: what he looked.

405
00:24:50,062 --> 00:24:53,422
Speaker 3: Like the man seen at the beach he was mid

406
00:24:53,462 --> 00:24:58,142
Speaker 3: thirties to mid forties. Some had called him middle aged. Initially,

407
00:24:58,422 --> 00:25:02,862
Speaker 3: and this has permeated the media for decades, is that

408
00:25:02,902 --> 00:25:06,902
Speaker 3: it was a blonde haired surfey type looking guy. It

409
00:25:07,142 --> 00:25:10,582
Speaker 3: was not. It never was, and I was speaking to

410
00:25:10,662 --> 00:25:15,022
Speaker 3: mosten Matters and also Peter Vogel, who has now passed away.

411
00:25:15,062 --> 00:25:19,262
Speaker 3: Peter Vogel was also a detective at the Glenelk police

412
00:25:19,302 --> 00:25:22,942
Speaker 3: station that day I met them both. They reiterated it

413
00:25:23,062 --> 00:25:26,862
Speaker 3: was not a long blonde headed surfey where his hair

414
00:25:26,982 --> 00:25:28,902
Speaker 3: was in need of cutting, and if you go on

415
00:25:28,982 --> 00:25:31,662
Speaker 3: to the end ofnet you can still read this it

416
00:25:31,742 --> 00:25:36,342
Speaker 3: is incorrect. He was mid thirties to mid forties, middle aged.

417
00:25:36,662 --> 00:25:40,222
Speaker 3: He was approximately six foot to six foot one with

418
00:25:40,302 --> 00:25:44,782
Speaker 3: an athletic build, longish face, high forehead. He was clean

419
00:25:44,902 --> 00:25:49,102
Speaker 3: shaven and sun tanned complexion. The next we have he

420
00:25:49,142 --> 00:25:53,502
Speaker 3: has swept back, light brown short hair parted to the

421
00:25:53,582 --> 00:25:57,462
Speaker 3: left side, so he's clean shaven. He's nicely sunturned, and

422
00:25:57,462 --> 00:26:01,382
Speaker 3: he's got nicely combed back, swept back hair. He was

423
00:26:01,422 --> 00:26:04,662
Speaker 3: wearing light blue bathers with a single white stripe down

424
00:26:04,742 --> 00:26:09,462
Speaker 3: either side. He only had with him a towel, a

425
00:26:09,622 --> 00:26:12,902
Speaker 3: shirt and trousers that he placed on the park bench.

426
00:26:13,022 --> 00:26:15,862
Speaker 3: There was no carry bag.

427
00:26:16,582 --> 00:26:20,662
Speaker 6: What sort of a girl as Jane the nine year old,

428
00:26:20,702 --> 00:26:21,022
Speaker 6: as she.

429
00:26:21,502 --> 00:26:26,022
Speaker 7: Oh very intelligent, very intelligent. You've only got to tell

430
00:26:26,022 --> 00:26:31,062
Speaker 7: her a thing once, and she always does what she's told.

431
00:26:31,102 --> 00:26:33,102
Speaker 7: Never to talk to any trainers on the beach when

432
00:26:33,102 --> 00:26:34,702
Speaker 7: she swims there, always in groups.

433
00:26:35,942 --> 00:26:38,142
Speaker 6: Be quite able to look after the other two.

434
00:26:38,342 --> 00:26:40,182
Speaker 7: Oh, quite capable, quite capable.

435
00:26:45,302 --> 00:26:48,822
Speaker 2: And so was that the last sighting of the children

436
00:26:49,142 --> 00:26:51,222
Speaker 2: sort of that when they were playing with this man.

437
00:26:52,062 --> 00:26:54,662
Speaker 3: After the man went over to this couple and said

438
00:26:54,702 --> 00:26:57,782
Speaker 3: their money was stolen, he walked back over to the children.

439
00:26:57,822 --> 00:27:00,382
Speaker 3: Can you imagine what he said to the children, our

440
00:27:00,422 --> 00:27:03,462
Speaker 3: money has been stolen. Now, Jane, it is smart, but

441
00:27:03,542 --> 00:27:06,022
Speaker 3: she's only nine years old. She's not going to say, well, no, hell,

442
00:27:06,062 --> 00:27:08,022
Speaker 3: did you know I had any money that was inside

443
00:27:08,022 --> 00:27:12,182
Speaker 3: my bag? That didn't enter her mind. What are we

444
00:27:12,262 --> 00:27:15,582
Speaker 3: going to do? Our money's been stolen, so we look

445
00:27:15,622 --> 00:27:18,382
Speaker 3: at it. He has no money, They have no money.

446
00:27:18,582 --> 00:27:21,342
Speaker 3: What are we going to do? I tell you what, kids,

447
00:27:22,022 --> 00:27:24,502
Speaker 3: come with me. I'll be able to get you some money.

448
00:27:24,582 --> 00:27:29,662
Speaker 3: I just live up there. They happily follow him. He's

449
00:27:29,662 --> 00:27:32,902
Speaker 3: the pied piper. He is setting this up. He is

450
00:27:32,982 --> 00:27:39,822
Speaker 3: grooming them perfectly. Now before the children go, he dresses

451
00:27:40,022 --> 00:27:42,462
Speaker 3: each one of them. Now, the people sitting on the

452
00:27:42,502 --> 00:27:46,902
Speaker 3: park bench thought this was highly unusual, especially Jane. She's

453
00:27:47,062 --> 00:27:51,062
Speaker 3: nine years old. She didn't need anybody dressing. Now, I

454
00:27:51,102 --> 00:27:54,862
Speaker 3: want you to keep in mind what colors the children

455
00:27:55,022 --> 00:27:59,502
Speaker 3: were wearing. They follow this man in a northerly direction

456
00:28:00,062 --> 00:28:05,982
Speaker 3: away from their bus stop and Wenzel's Bakery where they

457
00:28:06,022 --> 00:28:09,662
Speaker 3: were last seen when they wait for him outside the

458
00:28:09,782 --> 00:28:14,222
Speaker 3: change room. From there, they were not seen walking back

459
00:28:14,222 --> 00:28:19,342
Speaker 3: along Collie Reserve by the eyewitnesses. So what happened? And

460
00:28:19,502 --> 00:28:23,542
Speaker 3: also they've got no money. Now, there's a few things.

461
00:28:23,582 --> 00:28:27,182
Speaker 3: People think that Jane got the pound note and she

462
00:28:27,342 --> 00:28:29,422
Speaker 3: was given a pound note. We'll get onto that shortly.

463
00:28:30,462 --> 00:28:32,902
Speaker 3: She got this pound note that she was seen at

464
00:28:32,902 --> 00:28:38,222
Speaker 3: Wensworn's Bakery at Collie Reserve. She did not very simply,

465
00:28:38,422 --> 00:28:41,542
Speaker 3: they didn't have any money. So where did they go? Oh,

466
00:28:41,582 --> 00:28:46,382
Speaker 3: they got into a car. No wallet, No car keys

467
00:28:46,462 --> 00:28:50,582
Speaker 3: were seen, There was no carry bag. This man traveled

468
00:28:50,742 --> 00:28:53,822
Speaker 3: very light. If he was out of town, you would

469
00:28:53,822 --> 00:28:58,302
Speaker 3: have expected that. Well, let's say nobody saw the car keys,

470
00:28:58,302 --> 00:29:00,742
Speaker 3: but he did have them. He still doesn't have any money.

471
00:29:01,542 --> 00:29:04,142
Speaker 3: They get in the car, the three children in the back,

472
00:29:04,582 --> 00:29:06,662
Speaker 3: and then they have to drive to his place. He

473
00:29:06,702 --> 00:29:09,382
Speaker 3: would have lived at least a suburb a way. Now

474
00:29:09,382 --> 00:29:12,222
Speaker 3: he has to go through the train and then he's

475
00:29:12,222 --> 00:29:15,942
Speaker 3: got to end up at Wensley's Bakery. Why because they

476
00:29:15,982 --> 00:29:19,182
Speaker 3: were seen at Wensley's Bakery within twenty to twenty five

477
00:29:19,222 --> 00:29:22,942
Speaker 3: minutes later. And Wensley's Bakeries which is just off Jetty Road,

478
00:29:22,982 --> 00:29:26,182
Speaker 3: which is the main thoroughfare on Mostly Street, across from

479
00:29:26,182 --> 00:29:29,582
Speaker 3: their bus stop. So he does that the time blows

480
00:29:29,582 --> 00:29:32,662
Speaker 3: out because by the time they left Collie Reserve and

481
00:29:32,862 --> 00:29:36,262
Speaker 3: ended up at Wensley's Bakery, the maximum time that had

482
00:29:36,382 --> 00:29:40,862
Speaker 3: passed was twenty five minutes. Now, remember they're walking with

483
00:29:40,942 --> 00:29:43,502
Speaker 3: grant bone on a four year old walking at a

484
00:29:43,502 --> 00:29:46,982
Speaker 3: four year old's pace. The time factor with a car

485
00:29:47,222 --> 00:29:51,862
Speaker 3: doesn't compute. Even police back in nineteen sixty six said

486
00:29:51,862 --> 00:29:54,862
Speaker 3: it is highly improbable that a car was used, but

487
00:29:54,942 --> 00:29:57,822
Speaker 3: they weren't thinking. They didn't take it a step forward.

488
00:29:58,822 --> 00:30:02,182
Speaker 3: There was no car. The person must have lived within

489
00:30:02,302 --> 00:30:06,862
Speaker 3: close proximity. That never entered anybody's mind. And I don't

490
00:30:06,902 --> 00:30:07,782
Speaker 3: know why.

491
00:30:07,662 --> 00:30:09,662
Speaker 2: Because that would really limit the suspects.

492
00:30:09,862 --> 00:30:13,262
Speaker 3: Pull wouldn't it you hit it on the head, wouldn't

493
00:30:13,302 --> 00:30:16,182
Speaker 3: that limit What are you looking for? I mean, what

494
00:30:16,222 --> 00:30:18,382
Speaker 3: would you be looking for? If that's the case, what

495
00:30:18,422 --> 00:30:20,782
Speaker 3: would the police should have been looking for. It's not

496
00:30:20,862 --> 00:30:23,942
Speaker 3: their fault in nineteen sixty six, and there's many reasons why.

497
00:30:24,262 --> 00:30:26,102
Speaker 3: You go, Well, we're looking for somebody that fits the

498
00:30:26,102 --> 00:30:29,422
Speaker 3: description's mail. Okay, it doesn't live too far from Collie

499
00:30:29,462 --> 00:30:33,422
Speaker 3: Reserve and he hands out pound notes. Why is the

500
00:30:33,462 --> 00:30:37,102
Speaker 3: pound note so important? Okay, the guy's not from out

501
00:30:37,102 --> 00:30:40,342
Speaker 3: of town. He must live close by. They walk to

502
00:30:40,382 --> 00:30:45,262
Speaker 3: the perpetrator's house. Jane collects the pound note. Wow, a

503
00:30:45,302 --> 00:30:48,782
Speaker 3: pound note in nineteen sixty six. The buying power of

504
00:30:48,822 --> 00:30:51,942
Speaker 3: a pound note for a child. You could have buckets

505
00:30:51,942 --> 00:30:55,142
Speaker 3: and buckets and buckets of lollies. That's the way I

506
00:30:55,302 --> 00:30:57,542
Speaker 3: thought of a pound note. I did see one in

507
00:30:57,582 --> 00:31:01,862
Speaker 3: my mum's purse, but I'd never think of taking one.

508
00:31:02,102 --> 00:31:06,062
Speaker 3: Very noticeable. Remember, your average weekly weighed was about eight

509
00:31:06,142 --> 00:31:10,102
Speaker 3: pounds a week. That was hard earned money. Jane got

510
00:31:10,142 --> 00:31:14,662
Speaker 3: a power, not a pound equated to wealth. This man

511
00:31:14,782 --> 00:31:17,702
Speaker 3: was wealthy to easily give to a child that supposedly

512
00:31:17,822 --> 00:31:21,742
Speaker 3: he hardly knew. Jane walks to the person's house with

513
00:31:21,822 --> 00:31:25,262
Speaker 3: the children with grant and toe. She ends up down

514
00:31:25,262 --> 00:31:30,662
Speaker 3: at Wensle's Bakery on Moseley Street, just off Jenny Road.

515
00:31:31,142 --> 00:31:36,062
Speaker 3: It was very iconic. Everybody knew Wensley's Bakery. The lady there,

516
00:31:36,342 --> 00:31:41,462
Speaker 3: her name was Kath. She remembered Jane. She bought one pie,

517
00:31:41,902 --> 00:31:46,942
Speaker 3: five pastis six fingerbuts two large bottles of fizzy drink.

518
00:31:47,062 --> 00:31:50,342
Speaker 3: That's more than enough for four and she paid that

519
00:31:50,382 --> 00:31:54,382
Speaker 3: with a pound note, which really surprised this lady. Now,

520
00:31:54,422 --> 00:31:58,582
Speaker 3: this lady is the auntie of Mosston Matters.

521
00:31:59,502 --> 00:32:02,182
Speaker 2: It's all sort of connected that town in the mid

522
00:32:02,262 --> 00:32:03,222
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties.

523
00:32:03,822 --> 00:32:08,422
Speaker 3: We're all connected to that. Everybody knew everybody. Nobody thought

524
00:32:08,462 --> 00:32:11,422
Speaker 3: anything was afoot except this lady thought, she that's unusual.

525
00:32:11,462 --> 00:32:14,302
Speaker 3: She's paying with a pound note. Now, what didn't Jane

526
00:32:14,702 --> 00:32:18,822
Speaker 3: have in Wenzel's bakery? Where was her towels? And where

527
00:32:18,862 --> 00:32:19,622
Speaker 3: was a carry bag?

528
00:32:19,822 --> 00:32:22,182
Speaker 2: And so the man didn't accompany her into the bakery.

529
00:32:22,222 --> 00:32:25,382
Speaker 2: She was just seen on her own or with her siblings.

530
00:32:25,782 --> 00:32:29,542
Speaker 3: With the siblings, but he wasn't seen. Now we could say,

531
00:32:29,542 --> 00:32:31,742
Speaker 3: well he was sitting in the car. We ruled out

532
00:32:31,782 --> 00:32:34,702
Speaker 3: a car. If he gives Jane a pound note. And

533
00:32:34,742 --> 00:32:37,742
Speaker 3: she's a great girl, she's mature, and he's in his

534
00:32:37,862 --> 00:32:41,182
Speaker 3: home just up the road. That's it. That's his sort

535
00:32:41,182 --> 00:32:44,382
Speaker 3: of bait. If she doesn't come back and she keeps

536
00:32:44,382 --> 00:32:49,062
Speaker 3: it and Saul walks home, hey he's lost a pound note. However,

537
00:32:49,262 --> 00:32:52,182
Speaker 3: if Jane comes back with the lunch, he's on a

538
00:32:52,222 --> 00:32:55,022
Speaker 3: win win situation. I know people are going, oh, that's

539
00:32:55,142 --> 00:32:58,502
Speaker 3: terrible to think. Just put yourself in the shoes of

540
00:32:58,582 --> 00:33:01,982
Speaker 3: what he's doing and the way he's thinking, not the

541
00:33:02,022 --> 00:33:02,902
Speaker 3: way we're thinking.

542
00:33:03,182 --> 00:33:05,862
Speaker 2: It's Jane's shoes as well, because if she feels indebted

543
00:33:05,862 --> 00:33:08,822
Speaker 2: to this man and that he's sort of paid when

544
00:33:08,862 --> 00:33:10,982
Speaker 2: they've lost their money, I can see how you then

545
00:33:11,062 --> 00:33:14,662
Speaker 2: feel obliged to go back to him and maybe buy

546
00:33:14,742 --> 00:33:16,742
Speaker 2: him some fish.

547
00:33:15,982 --> 00:33:18,582
Speaker 3: And what a nice man, go and buy some fizzy

548
00:33:18,662 --> 00:33:23,102
Speaker 3: drinks and come back here. It's beautifully set up until

549
00:33:23,502 --> 00:33:28,782
Speaker 3: they go back to his place. Now where the perpetrator lives.

550
00:33:28,982 --> 00:33:32,302
Speaker 3: And we now know that the perpetrator we believe is

551
00:33:32,342 --> 00:33:35,942
Speaker 3: Harry Phipps. He lives at the corner of Sussex Street

552
00:33:36,462 --> 00:33:41,782
Speaker 3: and Augusta Street. Everything happened in a very limited space.

553
00:33:42,302 --> 00:33:46,422
Speaker 3: Where does Harry Phipps live. He lives straight up or

554
00:33:46,502 --> 00:33:49,902
Speaker 3: Gusta Street. You can see his house from Collie Reserve.

555
00:33:50,182 --> 00:33:53,022
Speaker 3: It's next to the Anglican Church, and you go, my god,

556
00:33:53,102 --> 00:33:56,062
Speaker 3: that's close. It is. It's one hundred and ninety meters

557
00:33:56,102 --> 00:33:58,702
Speaker 3: in direct side of Collie Reserve, and if you go

558
00:33:58,782 --> 00:34:01,902
Speaker 3: at right angles, it's two hundred meters to Wenzyls. It

559
00:34:02,102 --> 00:34:06,022
Speaker 3: is the Bermuda Triangle. I've walked that, and I've walked

560
00:34:06,022 --> 00:34:10,302
Speaker 3: it very slowly. I even waited where the change rooms were,

561
00:34:10,742 --> 00:34:13,182
Speaker 3: and I waited there because this is what the kids did.

562
00:34:13,342 --> 00:34:17,102
Speaker 3: And I walked what I believed as Grant Beaumont's pace.

563
00:34:18,022 --> 00:34:21,102
Speaker 3: I go to Harry Phipps's house, snand out the side, wait,

564
00:34:21,902 --> 00:34:25,662
Speaker 3: and then I walked to Wendsl's. It took me, at

565
00:34:25,662 --> 00:34:27,822
Speaker 3: a slow pace, nineteen minutes.

566
00:34:28,942 --> 00:34:34,142
Speaker 6: The spot where mister Patterson last saw the three Beaumont children.

567
00:34:34,782 --> 00:34:38,502
Speaker 6: He was riding his bicycle down Moseley Street and he

568
00:34:38,542 --> 00:34:41,302
Speaker 6: saw them standing right where I am. He stopped his

569
00:34:41,342 --> 00:34:44,182
Speaker 6: bicycle just here. He said hello to them. Then he

570
00:34:44,262 --> 00:34:46,902
Speaker 6: turned around the corner into Jetty Road and went down

571
00:34:46,942 --> 00:34:51,902
Speaker 6: towards the post office. Now the children after he passed by,

572
00:34:52,022 --> 00:34:53,662
Speaker 6: the children walked across the road.

573
00:34:56,622 --> 00:34:58,622
Speaker 2: Am I right in saying that you were the first

574
00:34:58,622 --> 00:35:04,982
Speaker 2: person to actually identify this particular suspect, Yes, because that

575
00:35:05,062 --> 00:35:08,422
Speaker 2: was twenty thirteen in your book, and this man, I

576
00:35:08,422 --> 00:35:11,422
Speaker 2: believe you didn't name him, but it was you had

577
00:35:11,422 --> 00:35:14,902
Speaker 2: a wealth of evidence that this person was responsible. What

578
00:35:15,062 --> 00:35:18,262
Speaker 2: was the other evidence that you had about Harry Phipps?

579
00:35:18,662 --> 00:35:23,702
Speaker 3: Oh? Where do we start? Alan Whittaker I've known since

580
00:35:23,862 --> 00:35:26,982
Speaker 3: university days, the University of Western Sydney back in the

581
00:35:27,062 --> 00:35:30,542
Speaker 3: ninth late nineteen eighties. I've known him since then. He

582
00:35:30,862 --> 00:35:32,822
Speaker 3: was teaching for a while and then he got into

583
00:35:33,262 --> 00:35:37,422
Speaker 3: authoring books with New Holland Publishing, and he had just

584
00:35:37,702 --> 00:35:40,582
Speaker 3: finished his I think he'sa his first true crime book,

585
00:35:40,862 --> 00:35:45,262
Speaker 3: the Wonder Beach Murders, where two teenage girls were raped

586
00:35:45,262 --> 00:35:47,942
Speaker 3: and murdered in the sand dunes on wander Beach, which

587
00:35:48,022 --> 00:35:51,702
Speaker 3: is just down the south of Cronulla, not too bar Sydney.

588
00:35:52,382 --> 00:35:54,862
Speaker 3: It doesn't really interest me, only because I'm not New

589
00:35:54,902 --> 00:35:57,982
Speaker 3: South Welshman. I'm South Australian. As much as the Beaumont

590
00:35:58,062 --> 00:36:01,382
Speaker 3: Children's story wasn't of great interest to him because his

591
00:36:01,462 --> 00:36:04,782
Speaker 3: heart's in New South Wales. However, he sent me the book,

592
00:36:04,942 --> 00:36:06,822
Speaker 3: which he usually did when he did books. He had

593
00:36:06,822 --> 00:36:09,462
Speaker 3: sent them to me and a few friends from university days.

594
00:36:09,902 --> 00:36:12,182
Speaker 3: I called him back and said, mate, if you ever

595
00:36:12,222 --> 00:36:14,622
Speaker 3: get a chance to do the Beaumont children, I'm in.

596
00:36:15,582 --> 00:36:17,422
Speaker 3: And he said, oh, that's right, you were born now,

597
00:36:17,462 --> 00:36:19,702
Speaker 3: I said, I was born in Glenelg. I would like

598
00:36:19,742 --> 00:36:22,182
Speaker 3: to know what happened to the children. Alan called me

599
00:36:22,382 --> 00:36:24,982
Speaker 3: a week later and said, you would not believe this.

600
00:36:25,262 --> 00:36:28,702
Speaker 3: My publishers just asked me can I do a book

601
00:36:28,822 --> 00:36:32,582
Speaker 3: on the Beaumont children? And he said are you in?

602
00:36:32,702 --> 00:36:35,222
Speaker 3: And I said absolutely. So we went off down to

603
00:36:35,262 --> 00:36:39,102
Speaker 3: glenel and Alan did most of the research because he

604
00:36:39,222 --> 00:36:42,222
Speaker 3: was employed by the publishers, and I helped him. I

605
00:36:42,262 --> 00:36:44,462
Speaker 3: showed him the lay of the land and Glenelg and

606
00:36:44,582 --> 00:36:47,462
Speaker 3: where I lived and where the Beaumonts lived, and it

607
00:36:47,502 --> 00:36:50,142
Speaker 3: was very easy to get around. Knew those suburbs now.

608
00:36:50,182 --> 00:36:53,222
Speaker 3: At that time, the head of major crime who we met,

609
00:36:54,822 --> 00:36:57,502
Speaker 3: was not really forthcoming. Oh what do you have to

610
00:36:57,542 --> 00:37:00,982
Speaker 3: know to write? You're after publicity? He said, plenty of

611
00:37:00,982 --> 00:37:03,782
Speaker 3: books have been written about the Beaumont children. We said,

612
00:37:03,862 --> 00:37:07,022
Speaker 3: nothing's been written about the Beaumont children. Oh what good

613
00:37:07,102 --> 00:37:09,542
Speaker 3: is that going to do? If you write a book,

614
00:37:09,782 --> 00:37:12,862
Speaker 3: people read it, of course, and they come out and say, listen,

615
00:37:12,942 --> 00:37:15,942
Speaker 3: I might know this. I might know that this did

616
00:37:15,982 --> 00:37:18,742
Speaker 3: happen with the book Alan got. I feel for him.

617
00:37:18,822 --> 00:37:21,022
Speaker 3: HIC cut most of him. He called me, I remember this,

618
00:37:21,062 --> 00:37:23,582
Speaker 3: he said, you know what? A guy came to my

619
00:37:23,702 --> 00:37:26,662
Speaker 3: place and knocked on the door and he was adamant

620
00:37:26,942 --> 00:37:29,662
Speaker 3: that the Beaumont children were living in Western Australia and

621
00:37:29,702 --> 00:37:32,022
Speaker 3: he wanted me to go and follow that up. I

622
00:37:32,062 --> 00:37:35,982
Speaker 3: feel for you. He received calls with theories. Look, this

623
00:37:36,022 --> 00:37:38,262
Speaker 3: is what the police have to put up with. Have

624
00:37:38,382 --> 00:37:41,822
Speaker 3: you ever thought of looking into you know, bill blogs

625
00:37:41,902 --> 00:37:44,502
Speaker 3: or whatever? And look, I've had these calls and you say,

626
00:37:44,542 --> 00:37:46,822
Speaker 3: will you look into them? Why do I have to

627
00:37:46,862 --> 00:37:49,102
Speaker 3: look into them? You know? Oh, well I don't have

628
00:37:49,182 --> 00:37:51,542
Speaker 3: the time. Why would I have the time? I said,

629
00:37:51,662 --> 00:37:53,822
Speaker 3: Just go to the police. I did, I said, And

630
00:37:53,862 --> 00:37:56,862
Speaker 3: what did they say? They're not interested? I wonder why.

631
00:37:57,262 --> 00:37:59,742
Speaker 2: So was there any sort of credible evidence that came

632
00:37:59,782 --> 00:38:00,222
Speaker 2: out of it?

633
00:38:00,942 --> 00:38:03,862
Speaker 3: Yeah? There was. There was one call. Alan called me

634
00:38:04,502 --> 00:38:07,062
Speaker 3: and he said, mate, are you sitting down every now

635
00:38:07,062 --> 00:38:09,262
Speaker 3: and there? You get that chill that goes up your

636
00:38:09,262 --> 00:38:13,542
Speaker 3: spine or down your spine. This was one moment he said, mate,

637
00:38:13,542 --> 00:38:17,342
Speaker 3: I've just had this lady call. Her name is Angela Fife,

638
00:38:18,262 --> 00:38:19,982
Speaker 3: and she lives up near you, so you might be

639
00:38:20,022 --> 00:38:22,622
Speaker 3: able to see it. She said. She read the book

640
00:38:22,742 --> 00:38:24,742
Speaker 3: and there was a few things she didn't know about

641
00:38:24,742 --> 00:38:28,342
Speaker 3: the story, one that Jane was given a pound note,

642
00:38:28,422 --> 00:38:31,942
Speaker 3: and the actual description of the man. Angela said, I

643
00:38:32,142 --> 00:38:36,622
Speaker 3: was married to a guy called Hayden Phipps. I'm not

644
00:38:36,702 --> 00:38:39,902
Speaker 3: married to him anymore. And we did live in South Australia,

645
00:38:39,902 --> 00:38:43,022
Speaker 3: and then we lived up in Queensland. He said to

646
00:38:43,222 --> 00:38:47,342
Speaker 3: me one night when he was watching a documentary on

647
00:38:47,382 --> 00:38:51,022
Speaker 3: the Beaumont children, he turned to Angela and said, I

648
00:38:51,142 --> 00:38:54,782
Speaker 3: think my father had something to do with that. Now

649
00:38:54,862 --> 00:38:59,382
Speaker 3: that shuts down her spine. Because she worked at the

650
00:38:59,502 --> 00:39:03,422
Speaker 3: correctional centers and she was dealing with the sexually abused.

651
00:39:03,462 --> 00:39:06,422
Speaker 3: She had classes for the sexually abused prisoners, and a

652
00:39:06,462 --> 00:39:09,142
Speaker 3: lot of people that have been sexually abused, especially males,

653
00:39:09,182 --> 00:39:11,502
Speaker 3: end up in prison for a minute of other reasons

654
00:39:11,862 --> 00:39:16,022
Speaker 3: associated with their sexual abuse. She had inklings that her

655
00:39:16,142 --> 00:39:20,982
Speaker 3: husband Hayden had been sexually abused by his father, who

656
00:39:21,022 --> 00:39:25,342
Speaker 3: was Harry Phipps. And she called Allen called me and

657
00:39:25,422 --> 00:39:28,702
Speaker 3: because she lived in Queensland, I set up a time

658
00:39:28,742 --> 00:39:30,742
Speaker 3: to meet her, which was quite happy to do so,

659
00:39:31,582 --> 00:39:34,222
Speaker 3: and she was only about two hours up the road. Now,

660
00:39:34,542 --> 00:39:37,142
Speaker 3: in my job, I've got my own company for the

661
00:39:37,222 --> 00:39:40,142
Speaker 3: last twenty years, and I think this is important, is

662
00:39:40,182 --> 00:39:43,502
Speaker 3: that I do recruitment for seeing your hospitality worldwide, and

663
00:39:43,542 --> 00:39:46,302
Speaker 3: I have to be very thorough in my research, especially

664
00:39:46,302 --> 00:39:48,942
Speaker 3: when I'm placing somebody for three hundred thousand or four

665
00:39:48,982 --> 00:39:54,822
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars. If I don't thoroughly research this individual

666
00:39:54,942 --> 00:39:59,102
Speaker 3: and do reference checks on him very thoroughly, I won't

667
00:39:59,142 --> 00:40:02,142
Speaker 3: have this client anymore. So I'm going to make sure

668
00:40:02,182 --> 00:40:05,902
Speaker 3: that I'm very thorough with Angela. The first thing I

669
00:40:05,942 --> 00:40:08,742
Speaker 3: needed to do was to meet her on not doing

670
00:40:08,782 --> 00:40:11,342
Speaker 3: anything over the phone. I was happy to meet her,

671
00:40:11,422 --> 00:40:15,462
Speaker 3: she was happy to meet me. I found her amazingly credible,

672
00:40:15,862 --> 00:40:17,542
Speaker 3: and I asked her, I'm going to have to do

673
00:40:17,622 --> 00:40:20,462
Speaker 3: reference checks on you, and she said, by all means,

674
00:40:21,062 --> 00:40:24,662
Speaker 3: call the head of the correctional facilities here all there,

675
00:40:25,302 --> 00:40:27,822
Speaker 3: I will tell them that you're calling. What she did

676
00:40:27,942 --> 00:40:32,382
Speaker 3: say that I didn't know about the pound note. Harry Phipps,

677
00:40:32,502 --> 00:40:36,382
Speaker 3: Hayden's father was known to hand out pound notes. He

678
00:40:36,502 --> 00:40:42,862
Speaker 3: was a very wealthy very respected, charming, very well connected individual.

679
00:40:43,142 --> 00:40:47,582
Speaker 3: He ran his own company called Castelloid, which is at

680
00:40:47,622 --> 00:40:52,582
Speaker 3: North Limpton. They made Harley Davidson rims for the motorbikes.

681
00:40:52,622 --> 00:40:56,022
Speaker 3: They made parts for holden Ford and later on with

682
00:40:56,262 --> 00:40:59,782
Speaker 3: Missen and Mitsubishi. So he was very wealthy and he

683
00:40:59,862 --> 00:41:03,862
Speaker 3: always carried a wad of cash. And she said, I

684
00:41:03,942 --> 00:41:06,302
Speaker 3: know that he gave out pound notes. I said, what

685
00:41:06,342 --> 00:41:08,742
Speaker 3: about the description, because really, excuse me, this is not

686
00:41:08,742 --> 00:41:12,422
Speaker 3: politically correct. If he was sure fat and squat, that's

687
00:41:12,462 --> 00:41:15,942
Speaker 3: it that ruings him out. But he wasn't. She said, Look,

688
00:41:15,982 --> 00:41:17,902
Speaker 3: I didn't know him back in the sixties, but he

689
00:41:18,022 --> 00:41:20,462
Speaker 3: was around six foot tall. I know back in the

690
00:41:20,502 --> 00:41:24,062
Speaker 3: sixties he had light brushed back hair and he still does,

691
00:41:25,062 --> 00:41:27,142
Speaker 3: and that he was a regular swimer. She said, I

692
00:41:27,182 --> 00:41:30,502
Speaker 3: know that, and I believe that he did sexually abuse

693
00:41:30,582 --> 00:41:33,102
Speaker 3: his own son. And I thought, oh, we've got somebody

694
00:41:33,102 --> 00:41:37,022
Speaker 3: that fits the description, hands out pound notes and looks

695
00:41:37,062 --> 00:41:38,342
Speaker 3: like he's an alleged pedophile.

696
00:41:38,462 --> 00:41:41,822
Speaker 2: We go, oh wow, were you able to get in

697
00:41:41,942 --> 00:41:42,902
Speaker 2: contact with the sun?

698
00:41:43,742 --> 00:41:47,582
Speaker 3: Yes? Now, because he had been or allegedly sexually abused,

699
00:41:47,982 --> 00:41:50,342
Speaker 3: you can imagine a lot of sexually abused people do

700
00:41:50,422 --> 00:41:53,302
Speaker 3: not want to meet. They do not want to talk

701
00:41:53,302 --> 00:41:56,182
Speaker 3: about their abuse. And this is in the high percentages.

702
00:41:56,902 --> 00:41:58,662
Speaker 3: And I know some people said, oh, you know, if

703
00:41:58,662 --> 00:42:01,062
Speaker 3: he was abused, he would have told me he would

704
00:42:01,062 --> 00:42:04,582
Speaker 3: have No, they don't. Some commit suicide, they suffer from

705
00:42:05,662 --> 00:42:11,102
Speaker 3: severe depression, they have anxiety, you know, alcoholism, drug abuse,

706
00:42:11,182 --> 00:42:13,502
Speaker 3: you know, self harm. They have all that. So it's

707
00:42:13,542 --> 00:42:17,302
Speaker 3: not so easy to go in and meet them. With Angela,

708
00:42:17,662 --> 00:42:21,862
Speaker 3: she hadn't been in contact with Hayden. It was too difficult.

709
00:42:22,022 --> 00:42:24,582
Speaker 3: His moods would swing and she didn't want anything more

710
00:42:24,622 --> 00:42:26,942
Speaker 3: to do with him. However, she gave me the number

711
00:42:27,542 --> 00:42:31,862
Speaker 3: of Hayden's son. I sent the book Searching for the

712
00:42:31,902 --> 00:42:34,662
Speaker 3: Bone Children. I had his address though Hayden's address, and

713
00:42:34,702 --> 00:42:37,702
Speaker 3: I sent the book by registered mail to the post

714
00:42:37,702 --> 00:42:40,782
Speaker 3: office and I just said in there, my name is

715
00:42:40,822 --> 00:42:43,702
Speaker 3: Stuart Marlins. I'd like to talk to you about somebody.

716
00:42:44,382 --> 00:42:47,222
Speaker 3: Would you mind giving me a call. I never heard

717
00:42:47,222 --> 00:42:50,262
Speaker 3: from him with his son. I sent the same thing.

718
00:42:50,622 --> 00:42:55,582
Speaker 3: I found his address and he called and he lived

719
00:42:55,662 --> 00:42:58,622
Speaker 3: up in Broadbeach, which was just up from in Queensland.

720
00:42:58,702 --> 00:43:02,222
Speaker 3: So and Hayden lived at also Broadbeach. So I thought, well,

721
00:43:02,222 --> 00:43:05,982
Speaker 3: they are. They're very close. Anyway, the son called me. Now,

722
00:43:05,982 --> 00:43:08,062
Speaker 3: I didn't say anything in this book. I just said

723
00:43:08,102 --> 00:43:11,222
Speaker 3: I'd like to talk to you about something. He called

724
00:43:11,302 --> 00:43:14,822
Speaker 3: and he introduced himself. He said, mate, I know what

725
00:43:14,862 --> 00:43:18,262
Speaker 3: this has to do with It's to do with my dad,

726
00:43:18,462 --> 00:43:22,542
Speaker 3: grandfather and the Beaumont children, obviously because he got the book. Yeah,

727
00:43:22,582 --> 00:43:27,782
Speaker 3: and I believe my grandfather was involved. I thought, oh,

728
00:43:28,022 --> 00:43:30,622
Speaker 3: you didn't know. How did you know I was going

729
00:43:30,662 --> 00:43:32,902
Speaker 3: to talk about this? And he said, mate, I know

730
00:43:33,022 --> 00:43:39,182
Speaker 3: when I get this. My father always said that his father, Harry,

731
00:43:39,502 --> 00:43:41,662
Speaker 3: had something to do with the case. Anyway, I went

732
00:43:41,702 --> 00:43:45,022
Speaker 3: around to meet the son. He played to me a

733
00:43:45,142 --> 00:43:49,862
Speaker 3: recording he recorded his father when he went around and

734
00:43:49,902 --> 00:43:53,222
Speaker 3: all he did, he didn't say anything. He just handed

735
00:43:53,542 --> 00:43:57,302
Speaker 3: his father, Hayden, the book because Hayden hadn't been to

736
00:43:57,342 --> 00:44:00,222
Speaker 3: the post office, so he didn't receive it, he recorded.

737
00:44:00,302 --> 00:44:03,822
Speaker 3: I listened to this recorded. Hayden's verse was where, Oh

738
00:44:03,862 --> 00:44:06,302
Speaker 3: my god, I knew this day would come. What do

739
00:44:06,382 --> 00:44:08,182
Speaker 3: we do? What do we do? We've got to go

740
00:44:08,262 --> 00:44:10,982
Speaker 3: to the police. Now, that is a very unusual response,

741
00:44:11,102 --> 00:44:14,102
Speaker 3: if you don't think there's anything untoward. The son was

742
00:44:14,142 --> 00:44:17,742
Speaker 3: telling me he said, I believe my father was sexually

743
00:44:17,742 --> 00:44:21,662
Speaker 3: abused over many years, that Harry Phipps had a satin fetish.

744
00:44:21,702 --> 00:44:24,182
Speaker 3: I saw this Saturn and when he was around Satney

745
00:44:24,262 --> 00:44:28,302
Speaker 3: became sexually aroused. I thought, oh God, and this is

746
00:44:28,502 --> 00:44:31,062
Speaker 3: living what one hundred and ninety meters in direct side

747
00:44:31,102 --> 00:44:33,022
Speaker 3: of poly reserve. I had to keep coming.

748
00:44:34,502 --> 00:44:37,982
Speaker 8: This interview relates to I three while zero eight zero

749
00:44:38,302 --> 00:44:44,502
Speaker 8: five nine five m between Bill Hayes and Hayden HYDN

750
00:44:44,702 --> 00:44:46,702
Speaker 8: Troops Hayden measure a web.

751
00:44:47,182 --> 00:44:49,102
Speaker 9: I've been asked to speak to you in relation to

752
00:44:50,062 --> 00:44:53,862
Speaker 9: certain matters involving the disappearance of the Beaumont children. Did

753
00:44:53,902 --> 00:44:58,062
Speaker 9: you understand what we're came to talk about? Did you

754
00:44:58,102 --> 00:45:00,982
Speaker 9: see the talking to Harry Well?

755
00:45:01,022 --> 00:45:03,142
Speaker 8: I saw him coming out of the backyard from the

756
00:45:03,902 --> 00:45:06,062
Speaker 8: Curry house the currents car.

757
00:45:07,182 --> 00:45:11,382
Speaker 9: I think they were inside the house and that's did

758
00:45:11,382 --> 00:45:13,662
Speaker 9: you hear what they're saying?

759
00:45:20,902 --> 00:45:24,262
Speaker 2: Had there been any sightings or anything? Had there been

760
00:45:24,302 --> 00:45:30,102
Speaker 2: anything for Hayden that sort of solidified to him. My

761
00:45:30,662 --> 00:45:31,942
Speaker 2: father was the man who did this.

762
00:45:32,982 --> 00:45:36,662
Speaker 3: Very good question, Very good question. I did get to

763
00:45:36,742 --> 00:45:40,942
Speaker 3: meet Hayden and I spent a few hours with him,

764
00:45:41,502 --> 00:45:43,782
Speaker 3: and he was getting it all up his chest. But

765
00:45:43,822 --> 00:45:46,222
Speaker 3: there was a few things he said. I met him

766
00:45:46,222 --> 00:45:49,822
Speaker 3: at his Broadbeach unit. I started to chat with him,

767
00:45:49,862 --> 00:45:53,302
Speaker 3: made him feel comfortable. But the story was that, yes,

768
00:45:53,342 --> 00:45:56,022
Speaker 3: he was sexually abused in his words, and I don't

769
00:45:56,022 --> 00:45:59,582
Speaker 3: believe he's lying. And in fact, to your listeners, you

770
00:45:59,622 --> 00:46:02,382
Speaker 3: know they're going so he could be like studies have

771
00:46:02,502 --> 00:46:06,302
Speaker 3: found that less than five percent of allegations of child

772
00:46:06,462 --> 00:46:10,822
Speaker 3: sexual abuse brought by the children hal fictitious. There is

773
00:46:10,862 --> 00:46:14,182
Speaker 3: a ninety five percent chance that Hayden Phipps is telling

774
00:46:14,222 --> 00:46:16,742
Speaker 3: the truth. You know what, if I'm a betting man

775
00:46:16,782 --> 00:46:19,142
Speaker 3: on the horses and my horse has got a ninety

776
00:46:19,182 --> 00:46:21,462
Speaker 3: five percent chance of winning, I think I'm going to

777
00:46:21,502 --> 00:46:26,062
Speaker 3: put my money on that one. Yeah. Absolutely, Now, Hayden,

778
00:46:26,942 --> 00:46:29,782
Speaker 3: I remember him banging down his hand on the armchair

779
00:46:29,782 --> 00:46:33,902
Speaker 3: and he said, mate, I swear I saw these children

780
00:46:33,942 --> 00:46:36,182
Speaker 3: in my backyard that day. And I said, well, how

781
00:46:36,222 --> 00:46:39,662
Speaker 3: do you know they were the Beatmont children? He said, mate,

782
00:46:39,822 --> 00:46:44,662
Speaker 3: it was around lunchtime. They came into the backyard around lunchtime.

783
00:46:44,702 --> 00:46:47,022
Speaker 3: Now that's a lucky guest. Look at the timing oft

784
00:46:47,022 --> 00:46:50,382
Speaker 3: Collie Reserve when they left. And I said, how would

785
00:46:50,382 --> 00:46:52,782
Speaker 3: you know he said, well, initially I thought they were

786
00:46:52,782 --> 00:46:55,142
Speaker 3: all boys and I thought, well, that's a bit strange.

787
00:46:55,182 --> 00:46:58,582
Speaker 3: He said, the haircuts are all the same. I tell

788
00:46:58,622 --> 00:47:01,942
Speaker 3: you what, have a look at a photo. Ah. And

789
00:47:01,982 --> 00:47:07,302
Speaker 3: I was like, Mane, your memory is incredible, because when

790
00:47:07,342 --> 00:47:10,742
Speaker 3: you have something called traumatic that you experience and you

791
00:47:10,822 --> 00:47:13,942
Speaker 3: remember it for the rest of your life. And I said, okay,

792
00:47:13,982 --> 00:47:16,342
Speaker 3: well what a part He said, Look, I don't remember

793
00:47:16,502 --> 00:47:20,302
Speaker 3: much about what they're wearing. I do remember the oldest

794
00:47:20,342 --> 00:47:22,702
Speaker 3: girl and the way he was thinking. And I was

795
00:47:22,742 --> 00:47:24,742
Speaker 3: looking at him. I thought, my god, you're telling the truth.

796
00:47:25,462 --> 00:47:29,142
Speaker 3: She had a sort of bag, a sort of bag.

797
00:47:29,742 --> 00:47:32,222
Speaker 3: And I said what kind of bag? He's like, I

798
00:47:32,342 --> 00:47:34,622
Speaker 3: just know she had a bag with it. She did.

799
00:47:35,862 --> 00:47:38,342
Speaker 3: If he's lying, he's going to go into a lot

800
00:47:38,382 --> 00:47:44,262
Speaker 3: of detail. Oh yeah. And they extrapidate the extrapolate the story. Yes,

801
00:47:44,662 --> 00:47:46,582
Speaker 3: and then they've got to have a good memory. Now,

802
00:47:46,582 --> 00:47:48,062
Speaker 3: if you lie, you've gotta have a good memory.

803
00:47:48,542 --> 00:47:48,902
Speaker 2: Yes.

804
00:47:49,302 --> 00:47:52,342
Speaker 3: So that's where you picked them up. And I thought, jeez,

805
00:47:52,582 --> 00:47:55,142
Speaker 3: this is this is good. He went on to talk

806
00:47:55,182 --> 00:47:59,222
Speaker 3: about his dad, satin Fettish, that he couldn't stop making

807
00:47:59,342 --> 00:48:03,342
Speaker 3: satin dresses. I asked him, I said, well, what color?

808
00:48:03,542 --> 00:48:06,742
Speaker 3: What colors? And he said, oh, I've got lime. Green,

809
00:48:07,782 --> 00:48:14,342
Speaker 3: pink was his favorite, red and orange and purple. Had

810
00:48:14,342 --> 00:48:16,942
Speaker 3: a look at the first few colors and never look

811
00:48:16,982 --> 00:48:19,382
Speaker 3: at it. And if you go back to what the

812
00:48:19,462 --> 00:48:22,982
Speaker 3: children were wearing at the beach, Wow, this was a

813
00:48:23,142 --> 00:48:24,542
Speaker 3: bee to a honeypot.

814
00:48:25,222 --> 00:48:29,582
Speaker 2: What do you think happened to the Beaumont children that day?

815
00:48:32,222 --> 00:48:36,342
Speaker 3: They followed him, They walked to his house. Hayden said

816
00:48:36,342 --> 00:48:39,302
Speaker 3: he saw them come in the backyard. The back door

817
00:48:39,422 --> 00:48:42,222
Speaker 3: was open. He said, they went into the back door.

818
00:48:42,302 --> 00:48:46,862
Speaker 3: Dad came out later, put four sort of surf tight

819
00:48:46,942 --> 00:48:49,702
Speaker 3: bags in the back of the car and drove off. Now,

820
00:48:49,742 --> 00:48:52,902
Speaker 3: his timing or his timeline could be a little wonkey.

821
00:48:53,422 --> 00:48:57,062
Speaker 3: He saw the children and he saw the father. If

822
00:48:57,102 --> 00:48:59,662
Speaker 3: they followed him, that would be correct. They would ord

823
00:48:59,662 --> 00:49:05,462
Speaker 3: of come in around lunchtime. So Hayden's correct. They go inside,

824
00:49:05,742 --> 00:49:08,302
Speaker 3: Harry gives them the pound. Note they walk out the

825
00:49:08,342 --> 00:49:10,902
Speaker 3: front door, because Hayden said they didn't come out the back.

826
00:49:10,942 --> 00:49:14,382
Speaker 3: And again, if that's lying, that story would change over

827
00:49:14,502 --> 00:49:17,542
Speaker 3: over a few years, and it never did. Yeah, the

828
00:49:17,782 --> 00:49:21,422
Speaker 3: children walk out the front. Now that front of his house,

829
00:49:21,742 --> 00:49:25,302
Speaker 3: the front door looks straight down Sussex Street to Jetty

830
00:49:25,382 --> 00:49:28,022
Speaker 3: Road and if you hit Jetty Roading you turn just

831
00:49:28,062 --> 00:49:31,422
Speaker 3: the fraction right and then left you're at Wensley's Bakery.

832
00:49:31,742 --> 00:49:35,662
Speaker 3: It fits like a glove. Now, what happened from Wenswell's Bakery,

833
00:49:35,742 --> 00:49:38,862
Speaker 3: we don't know. We know that Harry Phipps drove off

834
00:49:38,902 --> 00:49:41,822
Speaker 3: in the car now he had a very large he

835
00:49:41,862 --> 00:49:48,142
Speaker 3: had a Cadillac with fins, was very noticeable. Went and

836
00:49:48,182 --> 00:49:49,662
Speaker 3: from there we don't know.

837
00:49:50,342 --> 00:49:55,022
Speaker 2: Have you got a sense of where, if they were murdered,

838
00:49:55,662 --> 00:49:57,782
Speaker 2: where their bodies might lie.

839
00:49:58,422 --> 00:50:00,182
Speaker 3: The bodies are at Castelli factory.

840
00:50:01,182 --> 00:50:02,502
Speaker 2: And why do you believe that.

841
00:50:03,942 --> 00:50:05,702
Speaker 3: There's been two digs there at the back of the

842
00:50:05,742 --> 00:50:09,782
Speaker 3: factory when Bill Hayes. I hired Bill Hayes because I

843
00:50:09,822 --> 00:50:13,662
Speaker 3: wasn't getting anywhere with the police. In fact, I was

844
00:50:13,742 --> 00:50:16,622
Speaker 3: told I'm beating my head up against the brick wall.

845
00:50:16,702 --> 00:50:18,622
Speaker 3: This is very early on. I'm beating my head up

846
00:50:18,662 --> 00:50:22,382
Speaker 3: against the brick wall and I'm chasing my tail. I

847
00:50:22,502 --> 00:50:25,342
Speaker 3: was told that by the detective, even though there was

848
00:50:25,462 --> 00:50:31,662
Speaker 3: mounting circumstantial evidence. I was told that, however, I'm it

849
00:50:31,702 --> 00:50:34,742
Speaker 3: doesn't take a detective to the term me and I

850
00:50:34,782 --> 00:50:37,182
Speaker 3: didn't and I'll be honest with you. I'd done reference

851
00:50:37,262 --> 00:50:41,382
Speaker 3: checks on him. I'd done five and they were interesting.

852
00:50:41,422 --> 00:50:44,982
Speaker 3: Put it that way. So I hired Bill Hayes and

853
00:50:45,462 --> 00:50:51,342
Speaker 3: he recorded the conversation and sent it to Australia's best

854
00:50:51,662 --> 00:50:54,702
Speaker 3: light detection expert, which is Steve Van Naprin, and I

855
00:50:54,742 --> 00:50:57,702
Speaker 3: also sent it to Holland to statement analysis experts. They

856
00:50:57,702 --> 00:51:00,222
Speaker 3: didn't know each other. They sent back their findings and

857
00:51:00,262 --> 00:51:03,382
Speaker 3: said Hayden Phipps is telling the truth but hiding more.

858
00:51:03,502 --> 00:51:06,862
Speaker 3: They were nearly identical. There was a whole lot. One

859
00:51:06,862 --> 00:51:10,342
Speaker 3: in particular was when Hayden said to Bill Hayes, they

860
00:51:10,622 --> 00:51:14,862
Speaker 3: came into the car. Both statement analysis experts because most

861
00:51:14,862 --> 00:51:17,902
Speaker 3: probably your listeners will pick up, what do you mean

862
00:51:17,942 --> 00:51:21,542
Speaker 3: they came into the car. They got into the car

863
00:51:22,102 --> 00:51:25,262
Speaker 3: if you were standing outside, they came into the car

864
00:51:25,582 --> 00:51:28,142
Speaker 3: if you're in the car. And this is why Hayden

865
00:51:28,382 --> 00:51:32,902
Speaker 3: only goes so far and won't say anymore after. At

866
00:51:32,942 --> 00:51:36,902
Speaker 3: the end of the conversation with Bill Hayes, Bill was

867
00:51:37,222 --> 00:51:39,182
Speaker 3: helping him in the car. He was really sort of

868
00:51:39,302 --> 00:51:42,742
Speaker 3: he was naked his expression, but he was naked. He

869
00:51:43,342 --> 00:51:47,982
Speaker 3: was tired. He had spoken about his sexual abuse again

870
00:51:48,062 --> 00:51:50,542
Speaker 3: and that takes a lot about him. As he was

871
00:51:50,582 --> 00:51:52,902
Speaker 3: getting into his car, he looked up to Bill. Now,

872
00:51:52,942 --> 00:51:56,062
Speaker 3: Bill was twelve years as a detective and he was

873
00:51:56,142 --> 00:51:59,222
Speaker 3: several years in major crime in South Australia. He looked

874
00:51:59,302 --> 00:52:02,782
Speaker 3: up at Bill and said, Bill, they're in the sand pit.

875
00:52:04,382 --> 00:52:07,982
Speaker 3: Bill called me. He said, mate, I have been a detective.

876
00:52:08,302 --> 00:52:11,662
Speaker 3: I was in the Federal Police. I was a soldier

877
00:52:11,782 --> 00:52:14,942
Speaker 3: with the British Armed Services and a Special Forces. And

878
00:52:15,022 --> 00:52:20,062
Speaker 3: he said, this guy is telling the truth. These children

879
00:52:20,102 --> 00:52:23,302
Speaker 3: are in the sandpit, a sandpit as a cast ely.

880
00:52:24,102 --> 00:52:26,622
Speaker 3: When the police did the first dig and they did,

881
00:52:26,702 --> 00:52:30,422
Speaker 3: which was we're very grateful for Hayden Phipps called his

882
00:52:30,502 --> 00:52:34,302
Speaker 3: cousin who called me and he said, mate, they're digging

883
00:52:34,342 --> 00:52:37,102
Speaker 3: in the fucking wrong spot. And I said to Peter,

884
00:52:37,182 --> 00:52:39,262
Speaker 3: how does he know? That's his cousin. How does he know?

885
00:52:39,862 --> 00:52:44,182
Speaker 3: He said, he must have been there. He has mentioned

886
00:52:44,182 --> 00:52:47,662
Speaker 3: the sandpit to his son, to me, to Bill, to

887
00:52:47,862 --> 00:52:52,622
Speaker 3: his wife, to his cousin five separate occasions. The one

888
00:52:52,662 --> 00:52:56,622
Speaker 3: to Bill was the one that really startled. They are there.

889
00:52:56,702 --> 00:52:59,742
Speaker 3: We were just digging in the wrong spot the sandpit.

890
00:53:00,142 --> 00:53:03,422
Speaker 3: In his recorded interview that's been analyzed the sandpit he's

891
00:53:03,462 --> 00:53:07,102
Speaker 3: talking about is in front of the two workmen's cottage

892
00:53:07,382 --> 00:53:10,342
Speaker 3: at carst Ellly. If you can look at an aerial

893
00:53:10,542 --> 00:53:12,582
Speaker 3: you'll get that on Google. By the way, you get

894
00:53:12,582 --> 00:53:14,782
Speaker 3: it on my website. You can see where the two

895
00:53:14,782 --> 00:53:18,542
Speaker 3: cottages are now. The two cottages are very important to

896
00:53:18,582 --> 00:53:22,022
Speaker 3: this case. So in front of those I checked with

897
00:53:22,582 --> 00:53:24,942
Speaker 3: some workers from the cast that Wow factory from the

898
00:53:25,022 --> 00:53:27,822
Speaker 3: nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties, there was a sand pit

899
00:53:27,942 --> 00:53:30,582
Speaker 3: in front of those cottages and as they filled it

900
00:53:30,662 --> 00:53:33,462
Speaker 3: up with metal filings, they would move the sand pit

901
00:53:34,062 --> 00:53:37,862
Speaker 3: further up the factory to the end of the back gate,

902
00:53:38,182 --> 00:53:40,302
Speaker 3: so it kept moving that fill it in over a

903
00:53:40,342 --> 00:53:42,742
Speaker 3: period of time with sand. It was beautiful sand, like

904
00:53:42,862 --> 00:53:45,782
Speaker 3: beat sand, and then they would move towards the back

905
00:53:45,822 --> 00:53:46,462
Speaker 3: of the factory.

906
00:53:47,222 --> 00:53:51,062
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. I just hope that one day they

907
00:53:51,302 --> 00:53:57,062
Speaker 2: are recovered. And earlier this month, Nancy Beaumont passed away,

908
00:53:57,382 --> 00:53:59,062
Speaker 2: not knowing what happened to her children.

909
00:53:59,782 --> 00:54:02,262
Speaker 3: And I just told you she did. You hit it

910
00:54:02,342 --> 00:54:06,262
Speaker 3: right on the head. They not knowing she was living

911
00:54:06,942 --> 00:54:10,422
Speaker 3: a nightmare for fifty two years. And I think she's

912
00:54:10,502 --> 00:54:11,302
Speaker 3: with her children.

913
00:54:11,662 --> 00:54:14,902
Speaker 2: You know, it's a case that changed Australia and to

914
00:54:14,942 --> 00:54:18,262
Speaker 2: have a conclusion and to perhaps one day actually recover

915
00:54:18,302 --> 00:54:21,262
Speaker 2: those bodies would would mean an awful lot to a

916
00:54:21,262 --> 00:54:23,942
Speaker 2: lot of people. So thank you so much for all

917
00:54:23,982 --> 00:54:26,902
Speaker 2: the hard work you're doing on this case. And it's

918
00:54:26,902 --> 00:54:30,102
Speaker 2: something that I think will you know, stay in the

919
00:54:30,222 --> 00:54:34,662
Speaker 2: public mind and our curiosity until it is solved. Thank

920
00:54:34,782 --> 00:54:36,422
Speaker 2: you again for your time.

921
00:54:36,622 --> 00:54:41,462
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Jim. What sort of question

922
00:54:41,622 --> 00:54:44,142
Speaker 3: is one asked at a time like this? Well, what

923
00:54:44,302 --> 00:54:44,902
Speaker 3: can you say?

924
00:54:44,942 --> 00:54:49,742
Speaker 10: Actually, I mean I know many people have Australia really

925
00:54:49,782 --> 00:54:52,702
Speaker 10: feel feel for us. Well, what can you say at

926
00:54:52,702 --> 00:54:55,102
Speaker 10: this moment? I mean, we've been hanging on for nine

927
00:54:55,142 --> 00:54:59,382
Speaker 10: months and fourteen days now and just wait and hope

928
00:54:59,422 --> 00:55:02,702
Speaker 10: and pray. I suppose there's been several false alarms over

929
00:55:02,742 --> 00:55:05,822
Speaker 10: these past harrowing nine months for you. Oh yes, it

930
00:55:05,982 --> 00:55:10,182
Speaker 10: raises their hopes and were let down again. And by

931
00:55:10,222 --> 00:55:12,382
Speaker 10: the way, I would like to say it the stage

932
00:55:12,382 --> 00:55:17,062
Speaker 10: that I will thank you all the radio, television stations

933
00:55:17,102 --> 00:55:19,582
Speaker 10: and the press for what.

934
00:55:19,542 --> 00:55:20,382
Speaker 3: They have been doing.

935
00:55:20,662 --> 00:55:22,942
Speaker 10: I mean, I mean, I know I've got a fields

936
00:55:22,942 --> 00:55:27,142
Speaker 10: for us, but here all over Australia, well, thank you

937
00:55:27,262 --> 00:55:27,662
Speaker 10: very much.

938
00:55:43,502 --> 00:55:47,102
Speaker 2: Stewart's book The Satin Man, Uncovering the Mystery of the

939
00:55:47,142 --> 00:55:51,662
Speaker 2: Missing Beaumont Children is available at all good bookstores and online.

940
00:55:52,262 --> 00:55:54,622
Speaker 2: We'll keep you updated on the release of his new

941
00:55:54,622 --> 00:55:59,222
Speaker 2: book about the case. For photos, maps, and extra reading

942
00:55:59,342 --> 00:56:02,742
Speaker 2: on the Beaumont Children, don't forget to join our closed

943
00:56:02,782 --> 00:56:08,142
Speaker 2: Facebook group. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook. You

944
00:56:08,182 --> 00:56:12,182
Speaker 2: can also contact the show by emailing true Crime at

945
00:56:12,262 --> 00:56:17,062
Speaker 2: momamea dot com dot au. True Crime Conversations is a

946
00:56:17,102 --> 00:56:21,822
Speaker 2: Mummamea podcast hosted by me Jesse Stevens and produced by

947
00:56:21,822 --> 00:56:22,582
Speaker 2: Alice Cooper.

948
00:56:28,222 --> 00:56:31,102
Speaker 1: We hope you found this episode compelling. If you missed

949
00:56:31,222 --> 00:56:33,822
Speaker 1: Thursday's release, we encourage you to go back and have

950
00:56:33,862 --> 00:56:37,582
Speaker 1: a listen. It explores the chilling story of Clifford Buftholomew,

951
00:56:37,982 --> 00:56:41,182
Speaker 1: an Adelaide man who killed ten members of his family.

952
00:56:41,662 --> 00:56:45,182
Speaker 1: Was later released from prison and started a completely new

953
00:56:45,222 --> 00:56:46,942
Speaker 1: life under a new identity.

954
00:56:47,742 --> 00:56:48,822
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for listening.

955
00:56:48,942 --> 00:56:51,022
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more later this week.