Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on out louders. Welcome to
Speaker 2: our emergency meeting about the American election. If you've listened
Speaker 2: to the main show or you're going to, you'll know
Speaker 2: that we've kind of thrown everything out. We're starting again
Speaker 2: because we wanted America like America is, because we wanted
Speaker 2: to meet you where you are right now. It is
Speaker 2: as we're recording this nearly four o'clock on Wednesday afternoon.
Speaker 2: I am joined by Mia and Jesse and Amelia Lester,
Speaker 2: and we are doing a temperature take of where we're at.
Speaker 2: This is what's just happened as we're sitting down.
Speaker 3: The temperature is not great.
Speaker 2: The temperature is not great. And Nate Cohene, who is
Speaker 2: the New York Times statistician, has pretty much called the
Speaker 2: election for Trump. He said, for the first time tonight,
Speaker 2: we consider Trump likely to win the presidency. He has
Speaker 2: an advantage in each of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. To win,
Speaker 2: Harris would need to sweep all three. There's still a
Speaker 2: lot of vote left, but in the voting so far
Speaker 2: Trump is narrowly but discernibly ahead. The Harris camp, as
Speaker 2: we're talking, are not anywhere near conceding. They say that
Speaker 2: the swing states yet to come through are looking strong
Speaker 2: on voter turnout for the Democrats. But if you're watching
Speaker 2: that terrible Needly graph on a newspaper homepage and feeling
Speaker 2: a sense of dread, we've got you. We're here, Amelia,
Speaker 2: tell us where are we at?
Speaker 1: I think you put that perfectly, Holly.
Speaker 4: I have to speak here, not as a journalist, but
Speaker 4: as an American, and as a woman, and as a parent.
Speaker 4: I won't say mother, as a parent, and I feel devastated.
Speaker 4: And that's because this was not a normal election. In
Speaker 4: a normal election, I wouldn't tell you how I felt
Speaker 4: about the result. But the problem here is that this
Speaker 4: was not a normal election. This was not a normal candidate.
Speaker 4: He's been found liable for sexual assault. He currently has
Speaker 4: four active criminal cases against him. He tried to overturn
Speaker 4: an election violently that my husband was caught up in
Speaker 4: and I thought he was going to die in And
Speaker 4: he calls women really horrible names. I'm not even getting
Speaker 4: into his policy there. No, I'm not talking about his policies.
Speaker 4: I'm talking about why this is not a normal elections.
Speaker 3: Did you feel that way in twenty sixteen?
Speaker 5: I mean, this is very reminiscent of the emergency meeting
Speaker 5: we had in twenty sixteen. Although it does feel different. Then,
Speaker 5: we all thought it was a lay down for Hillary.
Speaker 3: I'm with her.
Speaker 5: We came to work in our pantsuits, We pre recorded
Speaker 5: a whole lot of content about the first female president.
Speaker 5: He seemed like such a buffoon to us and such
Speaker 5: grabbed you by the pussy like all of that. We
Speaker 5: thought he was such a disqualified candidate in terms of
Speaker 5: no one would ever vote for him. So when he won,
Speaker 5: there was absolute shock and disbelief, which then became quite
Speaker 5: energizing in a way and led to like the pink
Speaker 5: pussy hats in the street and in some ways me too,
Speaker 5: and in many ways me too probably was.
Speaker 3: Action to that. This feels different. I don't think.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't feel shocked today like a normous I
Speaker 6: don't feel shocked, disappointment or even trying to get our
Speaker 6: head around the ramifications of it. But do you feel shock, Amelia?
Speaker 1: No, I don't feel shocked.
Speaker 3: How is it different for you?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Twenty an interesting question about how it feels different
Speaker 4: to twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: The way I think it's different is January.
Speaker 4: Sixth, in particular, because we knew he was a sexist,
Speaker 4: and he said horrible things about immigrants, and he just
Speaker 4: seemed like an unpleasant person.
Speaker 5: But and he was unqualified, and he was you couldn't
Speaker 5: have policy agrifts with people, and in twenty sixteen we
Speaker 5: could convince ourselves that maybe this was going to be
Speaker 5: about policy. Different because remember, people will like take him seriously,
Speaker 5: but don't take him literally.
Speaker 1: This is not about policy.
Speaker 4: This is about what it says about how we think
Speaker 4: about women, how we think about living in a democracy.
Speaker 1: These are much more financial issues.
Speaker 2: That's also why there are a lot of women in
Speaker 2: Australia and all around the world who also are feeling
Speaker 2: very shaken by what it looks like about to happen.
Speaker 2: And often we get we don't live in America.
Speaker 1: Who cares?
Speaker 2: I mean, as an American, As you've said, Emilia, this
Speaker 2: is very different for you. But I think that's women
Speaker 2: feel that same visceral thing that given two choices here,
Speaker 2: but again between a capable, qualified woman and a man
Speaker 2: who openly whips up hatred against women. He is a
Speaker 2: convicted rapist, they still chose him. So we also need
Speaker 2: to be clear that the people might be listening to
Speaker 2: this later and things might look different, but it is
Speaker 2: so close.
Speaker 4: It doesn't actually matter if things look different later, because
Speaker 4: we still need to ask the question of how we
Speaker 4: got here. How I am sitting here biting my nails
Speaker 4: about this man being re closed to the so close
Speaker 4: to the presidency. Even if there's a miraculous turn around
Speaker 4: for Harris, that question still remains.
Speaker 6: I'm really disturbed by the gender split. So a lot
Speaker 6: of the research in the lead up was about how
Speaker 6: men were going one way and women were going another,
Speaker 6: And even the ads for Harris in the last minute
Speaker 6: was sort of about you know, your husband or your
Speaker 6: partner doesn't have to know that you're voting for her,
Speaker 6: that you're voting for her. It almost feels like men
Speaker 6: went and did something behind women's backs, and in that way,
Speaker 6: it feels really threat It's not.
Speaker 3: The floor, it's the feature.
Speaker 5: Oh, you were saying in the segment we recorded for
Speaker 5: the main show which we ended.
Speaker 3: Thrown in the bin talk about that rally.
Speaker 2: I was saying, how again, to the point of why
Speaker 2: women everywhere feel so despondent, panicky about this is In
Speaker 2: one of his final rallies, Trump was talking about Harris
Speaker 2: and he said she's crazy, she's stupid, all the things
Speaker 2: he usually said. And he said she's and he started
Speaker 2: to say the word bitch he said, and he said, no, no,
Speaker 2: I can't say that. I want to say that, but
Speaker 2: I won't, And the entire crowd started chanting bitch, bitch, bitch,
Speaker 2: and that when I even say that, now I get
Speaker 2: like a nausea and goosebumps. And I live on the
Speaker 2: other side of the world.
Speaker 4: You've just explained for me the connection between the idea
Speaker 4: of how women are feeling and then also the idea
Speaker 4: of what it means for democracy. I feel panicky because
Speaker 4: it feels like the rules that we all agreed on
Speaker 4: have broken down. One of those rules was about how
Speaker 4: elections are conducted, that you need to listen to the
Speaker 4: people and listen to.
Speaker 1: How they vote and respect those results.
Speaker 4: And now that is that you need to treat women
Speaker 4: with respect and like human beings. And that's why democracy
Speaker 4: and treating women this way are connected and make me
Speaker 4: feel panicky because it feels like there are no rules anymore.
Speaker 6: I remember in twenty sixteen when we spoke, Jacqueline Lunn
Speaker 6: was on the podcast and she said that she didn't
Speaker 6: know how to go home and talk to her kids
Speaker 6: about it, because she was like, I've spent my whole
Speaker 6: life trying to teach my kids that bullies are bad,
Speaker 6: and that, as you say, there's a number of rules,
Speaker 6: and we teach people not to be cheats or greedy or.
Speaker 3: Mean or rude or mock people call them.
Speaker 6: Arrogant or criminals or unprepared or sexist or racist or liars,
Speaker 6: whatever it is. And it feels this is the most
Speaker 6: ridiculous now, but it just shows where I'm at in
Speaker 6: my life. Amelia, do you know the song Wiggletown.
Speaker 1: It's a song.
Speaker 6: About everything being about Wiggletown. That's like it has like
Speaker 6: a short it's a tall the taller shore, the fish's fish,
Speaker 6: the men get caught anyway. It's in my house all
Speaker 6: the time, and I keep thinking, this is Wiggletown. It's
Speaker 6: like everything's upside down. It's like things are not as
Speaker 6: they're meant to be. And I think that's why we
Speaker 6: all feel so disoriented. It's like this isn't how the
Speaker 6: world works.
Speaker 2: You've also just made me think about the fact that
Speaker 2: I do have to go home and talk to my
Speaker 2: fourteen year old daughter about this. And we've talked about
Speaker 2: this before on hour shows about this with you, Amelia,
Speaker 2: that one of the things that makes Trump a very
Speaker 2: effective political figure is his color and movement and his
Speaker 2: fact he always plays a shock factor and that kids
Speaker 2: on TikTok understand who he is, right, you know, what
Speaker 2: I mean is drama. He's drama and they like that
Speaker 2: in a way. But yesterday she sent me a TikTok,
Speaker 2: because that's how we communicate these days. That was of
Speaker 2: an American who lives in Australia saying I just voted
Speaker 2: and his you know, the way that Australian Americans are voting.
Speaker 2: It was very much for Harris. And Matilda said with
Speaker 2: this stick talk and said can we vote? Can we
Speaker 2: vote against Donald Trump? And a that shows that my
Speaker 2: education is really poor, my daughter. But also, how do
Speaker 2: I say to her they chose that guy even though
Speaker 2: he leads arena chounting bitch. I hate to say it,
Speaker 2: somebody's got to say.
Speaker 5: In most states in America, in all states in America,
Speaker 5: you can't wear a T shirt that says Harris Woles
Speaker 5: or Trump for that matter, into a polling booth. You
Speaker 5: can't have any kind of political slogan on your T shirt.
Speaker 5: But in a lot of states you can openly carry
Speaker 5: a gun into the polling booth.
Speaker 3: Now, that is not a country that we can understand.
Speaker 5: And I want to be really careful because Amelia is here,
Speaker 5: and I don't want to say horrible things about America
Speaker 5: because you and I have had fights about that before. Amelia,
Speaker 5: I understand.
Speaker 4: But I got some news for you, Mia, and you're
Speaker 4: not going to like it. There was a poll done
Speaker 4: by Yugov last week in Australia and it showed that
Speaker 4: young men are breaking for Trump at twice the rate
Speaker 4: that young women are breaking. There's basically no women who
Speaker 4: support you, young women who support Trump?
Speaker 1: Why is that bad news?
Speaker 4: Because this is a global thing, sorry in Australia and
Speaker 4: this cultural moment where young men feel anger and like
Speaker 4: they hate women is not going to stay within the
Speaker 4: boundaries of one country.
Speaker 3: Who did Trump get like? Who did how did this happen?
Speaker 3: Who broke for Trump? Surprisingly?
Speaker 5: Because remember last time there was all that oh white
Speaker 5: women let America down because they voted for Trump more
Speaker 5: than they voted for Hillary.
Speaker 3: Or what's happened? Who's he won? Whose hearts and minds?
Speaker 3: Has he changed?
Speaker 4: Well, I would flip the question around and say that
Speaker 4: Harris didn't win any new groups and that's the problem.
Speaker 5: So Latinos, black men like you would have thought that
Speaker 5: black people would have voted for her. She's the first
Speaker 5: black female candidate. You know, we saw Obama move so
Speaker 5: many votes. Is it a case that the only thing
Speaker 5: worse than a racist rapist is a woman? Is that
Speaker 5: what a lot of people?
Speaker 6: Because well, Trump is the only president in American history
Speaker 6: to have beaten a woman once, potentially beaten a woman twice.
Speaker 6: And so we can see it as Trump chose words. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: And we can see it as Trump winning, or we
Speaker 6: can see it as a woman really really losing.
Speaker 4: I want to contextualize a little bit, and this relates
Speaker 4: to your earlier point me out. So, first of all, yes,
Speaker 4: like in Australia, young men feel in similar ways to
Speaker 4: the way that we saw young men feeling in the
Speaker 4: United States. Secondly, incumbent governments all over the world are
Speaker 4: getting voted out. People are angry generally about the state
Speaker 4: of the world, and you've seen like in Europe, which
Speaker 4: we think of as a bastian of progressive ideals. In
Speaker 4: the Netherlands, they just voted in a far right guy.
Speaker 5: Don't you think that's also about concentrations bans. It's like
Speaker 5: this idea of continuity. I don't think anyone gets more
Speaker 5: than one term anymore. I think those days.
Speaker 6: I think it's also that there was a really good
Speaker 6: analysis by Adam mcgerney in the Sydney Morning Herald, which
Speaker 6: I think was first in the New York Times and
Speaker 6: it was republished. But he said that when citizens feel
Speaker 6: that the country is going in the wrong direction, they
Speaker 6: vote the opposite. So if you have a sense of
Speaker 6: distrust or you feel you're not happy with the current regime,
Speaker 6: then obviously you're going to vote for the other.
Speaker 4: I also heard it said that in twenty twenty Trump
Speaker 4: lost because of the pandemic, and in twenty twenty four
Speaker 4: he won because of the pandemics, meaning that our brains
Speaker 4: are broken. Everyone's so angry about the pandemic. The lockdowns
Speaker 4: are too long, they weren't enough lockdowns. They're angry about vaccines,
Speaker 4: they're angry about not vaccines. Everyone is angry, and why
Speaker 4: would you want to continue down one path when you
Speaker 4: can shake things up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so Amelia, as Mia said, we're not sitting
Speaker 2: here going what's wrong with America. But the thing that
Speaker 2: is also very different from twenty sixteen is everybody knows
Speaker 2: exactly who Donald Trump is. Now, as you started this
Speaker 2: show laying out his credentials, shall we call him access Hollywood?
Speaker 4: Was maybe that was locker room talk. I mean, it
Speaker 4: wasn't entirely clear that he was going.
Speaker 2: To follow or as to the occasion, so said, everybody
Speaker 2: knows exactly who he is. They know exactly what he's
Speaker 2: capable of, exactly what he'll do, and America has still
Speaker 2: chosen him, like it does look at this point that
Speaker 2: he is going to win decisively. We don't know certainly,
Speaker 2: but it's looking like he is. He's also going to
Speaker 2: win the Senate. So America has chosen him. And when
Speaker 2: you're going to get asked, as you inevitably are a
Speaker 2: million times over the next few weeks, why have they
Speaker 2: chosen him? What are you going to say?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm glad that you raised it because me is
Speaker 4: right that we have had arguments about oh, maybe the
Speaker 4: whole of America is just irridimable. Not that you said that,
Speaker 4: but that's the sort of accusation I'm sensitive to. And
Speaker 4: I always want to point out to people how big
Speaker 4: America is, how diverse it is, and how polarized it is.
Speaker 4: So for instance, in Australia, I know labor voters and
Speaker 4: I know liberal voters. I don't even know whom most
Speaker 4: people vote for because they don't talk about it. In America,
Speaker 4: you know exactly who people vote for, and I have
Speaker 4: to tell you, and I'm going to sound like a
Speaker 4: close member of the media here. I don't know any
Speaker 4: Maga people at all. And that's how polarized it is.
Speaker 2: So I feel that there are many Americas.
Speaker 4: There's so many Americas. Someone asked me the other day
Speaker 4: how it was that in America it's so difficult to
Speaker 4: get an abortion, and yet you know, gay marriage came
Speaker 4: to the US two years before it came to Australia,
Speaker 4: And I said that that's America in a nutshell. It's
Speaker 4: like every individual state is kind of a country. And
Speaker 4: the problem is you've got these countries that are actually
Speaker 4: much more progressive than Australia. Are Massachusetts or California next
Speaker 4: to these states that are extremely conservative, and I feel
Speaker 4: like you're behalf of Americans. Well, it's actually even more
Speaker 4: I think striking than Europe because I think Europeans generally
Speaker 4: like bikes and agree the climate change exists, and enjoy
Speaker 4: cheese and smoking. But in America, it's like so different
Speaker 4: from state to state, And that's why I feel so
Speaker 4: heartbroken for so many Americans I know who just feel
Speaker 4: devastated that they have to live in a country where
Speaker 4: women have been deemed to be not as important as men.
Speaker 6: Twenty four hours ago, I saw a video of Elon
Speaker 6: Musk being interviewed by Joe Rogan, and when I saw
Speaker 6: that clear that was going viral, I had a real sense.
Speaker 1: That the Trump was in.
Speaker 6: What happened in It was Joe Rogan, this was just
Speaker 6: before he officially endorsed Trump, but he was speaking to
Speaker 6: Elon Musk and they were having this conversation, winding each
Speaker 6: other up and talking about how important it was that
Speaker 6: Trump won. And then Elon Musk turned and he looked
Speaker 6: down the barrel of the camera and essentially said the
Speaker 6: Dame was.
Speaker 3: Won the selection.
Speaker 4: They will legalized enough illegals to turn the swing states
Speaker 4: and everywhere will be like California.
Speaker 6: There will be no escape that.
Speaker 3: I'm sane. This is it. This is the last chance.
Speaker 3: Go out and vote.
Speaker 6: Vote like your life depends on it, Vote like your
Speaker 6: future depends on it, because it does.
Speaker 3: This was the last chance man.
Speaker 6: The way that he stoked the fear of immigration, I
Speaker 6: realized in that video that it felt as existential for
Speaker 6: the Republican side as it did for the Democrats, which
Speaker 6: I didn't realize until that moment. And the second thing
Speaker 6: was I thought, people will excuse everything if they are scared,
Speaker 6: and I refuse to accept that Americans are bad or evil,
Speaker 6: or dumb or immoral or all of the things.
Speaker 1: That are going to come through. I think they're scared,
Speaker 1: and I think.
Speaker 5: It's very scared of the fact that women can't get abortion.
Speaker 2: And that he's gonna and that all the signs are
Speaker 2: showing that he is going to be an authoritarian leader
Speaker 2: who's going to dismantle the civil service.
Speaker 6: That's not what they think they voted for. And I
Speaker 6: think that that's we talked about echo chambers in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 6: I think that there's been a lot of really important
Speaker 6: work done to deconstruct them, and I think the left
Speaker 6: has done a lot of soul searching and has gone
Speaker 6: how is it that we live in these silos? I
Speaker 6: really think that they have, and I don't think that conservatives.
Speaker 1: Are the thing.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing that's interesting about that. You know
Speaker 2: how we were saying did he win or did she lose?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: She has had the broadest church, She's had Republicans up
Speaker 2: there speaking for her, She's done all of those things.
Speaker 2: She's had every famous person in the world. She's had
Speaker 2: more money, like the Democrats have raised more money than ever,
Speaker 2: and none of it's moved the needle.
Speaker 1: On the abortion point.
Speaker 4: I read some analysis that was really compelling to me
Speaker 4: that said, the reason why that didn't move the needle
Speaker 4: is because of that state's idea that I was mentioning
Speaker 4: to you, if you live in a state where you
Speaker 4: live in Massachusetts or California, you can be pretty sure
Speaker 4: that you will always get an abortion.
Speaker 5: But isn't he going to make federal legislation which is
Speaker 5: essentially the opposite of roversus Wade, which will override I think.
Speaker 6: That feels so hypothetical. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. And
Speaker 6: I'm not justifying this. I'm not saying it's right, but
Speaker 6: whether it's xenophobia, whether immigrants, immigration and the economy, was
Speaker 6: a literal.
Speaker 4: Illegal immigrant to the United States, as has been recently reported.
Speaker 1: It was interesting to me to note that.
Speaker 3: Is married to the daughter of immigrants.
Speaker 6: But this is.
Speaker 4: Overstated student visa and started a business when he wasn't
Speaker 4: meant to. He literally broke the immigration.
Speaker 2: He would be deported onder the News Millenia.
Speaker 4: There's also some evidence that she did some of various
Speaker 4: stuff with her visa when she first arrived in the US.
Speaker 5: Two But to me, it's not just illegal immigrants that
Speaker 5: Trump's stoking the fears of it's just any immigrants, it's xenophobia.
Speaker 4: It's just I think it's specifically this idea. It's a
Speaker 4: bit different from say, the Brexit thing, which Holly, you
Speaker 4: feel free to interject and tell me I'm not getting it.
Speaker 4: But to me, that was about a demographics debate. It's
Speaker 4: like what do we want this country to look like?
Speaker 4: In the US, it's more specifically about this very simplistic
Speaker 4: idea of people coming over the southern border and then
Speaker 4: raping and pillaging, and.
Speaker 2: That is not in a way dissimilar to Australia's obsession
Speaker 2: with illegal immigrants and stop the boats right, which is
Speaker 2: one elections for Australian prime ministers, except on a vastly
Speaker 2: different scale.
Speaker 1: That is such an apt comparison.
Speaker 4: It's not a debate about what we want the country
Speaker 4: to look like.
Speaker 1: It's not that sophisticated. Unfortunately.
Speaker 4: It's more just about this idea of the hordes coming
Speaker 4: up from the southern border and criminals.
Speaker 6: Because I heard in Republican circles talk about you've got
Speaker 6: abortion over here in women's rights, and then you've got
Speaker 6: Republicans talking about protecting women, and they think they're protecting
Speaker 6: women because they're keeping the criminals out.
Speaker 4: Like there's this This mean appeared with Trump at one
Speaker 4: of his last rallies and teared up. This is the
Speaker 4: woman who, by the way, he basically complained about her
Speaker 4: being on a period in twenty sixteen. She appears with
Speaker 4: him at this rally with tears in her eyes and
Speaker 4: she's like, thank you for protecting me.
Speaker 3: The thing is.
Speaker 2: To Elon Musk for a minute. He isn't just a
Speaker 2: famous person influencer type. He's not Beyonce. He's like the
Speaker 2: richest man in the world. It controls almost everything, and
Speaker 2: Trump buddying up to him and a few of the
Speaker 2: other big tech guys and promising them whatever they've wanted.
Speaker 2: I think, without question, has got to be one of
Speaker 2: the biggest parts of it.
Speaker 4: I think one tweet I agree with everything, except I
Speaker 4: think it was the tech guys that butted up to Trump.
Speaker 4: Trump didn't sit down and come up with a strategy.
Speaker 2: They're the evil genius pulling the strings like Putin.
Speaker 4: It's like Kim Jong un is not the puppet as
Speaker 4: Trump accused of being.
Speaker 1: Trump's the puppet.
Speaker 3: Look, we're going to wrap up, but I just what.
Speaker 2: I'm closed, then nothing can happen.
Speaker 3: I don't want to go home.
Speaker 5: Is that women are feeling different today all around the world.
Speaker 5: I think, sorry, not all women, but in Australia as well.
Speaker 5: Women's reactions to this versus men's reactions, like even if
Speaker 5: you're anti Trump, which my husband is and my sons are,
Speaker 5: but it's different. My daughter and.
Speaker 1: I are like.
Speaker 3: It's hard to explain it is.
Speaker 1: That is the closest I've heard to how I feel fear.
Speaker 3: To me, it's fear and it's just me. That's what
Speaker 3: it feels like, Like.
Speaker 5: I want to be and it's like Oh, I thought
Speaker 5: we'd established like what you said about I thought we'd
Speaker 5: established with ground ruels.
Speaker 3: I thought you just doubles that. Maybe the guy.
Speaker 5: Running for public office doesn't just call a woman garbage
Speaker 5: and a bitch and dumb.
Speaker 3: And sex change. And it's like everyone went, yeah, he's
Speaker 3: a rapist. Yeah he's my guy. I want that guy.
Speaker 3: She's a rapist.
Speaker 6: About that demographic of men that scares me. It's almost
Speaker 6: like this in cell underworld. And that's horrible because I
Speaker 6: know that's only a very small percentage, but it's all
Speaker 6: these college bros, all these Maybe it's not Jesse.
Speaker 1: I think that's why we're freaking.
Speaker 4: I thought it was because I thought it was a
Speaker 4: small percentage, and I thought they wouldn't leave their houses,
Speaker 4: but because remember in the US, you can always just
Speaker 4: stay at home, but they didn't.
Speaker 1: They went out.
Speaker 3: And the women women.
Speaker 1: Must have voted for him too, Like they must have
Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't.
Speaker 6: A lot of people in the US voted for Harris,
Speaker 6: and like that must sting today and.
Speaker 2: As we're talking now, we don't know. But in the
Speaker 2: days before, they were saying women were coming out in
Speaker 2: record numbers.
Speaker 6: So Zara Curtis, who's our chief content officer. I was
Speaker 6: speaking to her the other day who somehow managed to
Speaker 6: get through the whole Joe Rogan Trump interviewed.
Speaker 1: Oh, she listened for three hours.
Speaker 6: She listened to three hours, and she said, I listened
Speaker 6: because I was waiting for either man to use her name,
Speaker 6: first or second name. And they went for three hours
Speaker 6: and neither of them ever said her name.
Speaker 1: They referred to her as her or she, which I.
Speaker 3: Think fel to humanized.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, and we've got to be careful because it
Speaker 5: just feels very emotional. It feels like more than just
Speaker 5: you know, there are election nights in Australia where the
Speaker 5: person you've wanted to win didn't win, and it's a
Speaker 5: bummer and you feel annoyed or you feel upset or whatever.
Speaker 5: But I don't think you feel existentially under threat.
Speaker 1: How do you feelk It's different from twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: I think in twenty sixteen it was a shock.
Speaker 5: This year it's much more despair because we've been here.
Speaker 5: It's like last time it almost could have been a
Speaker 5: glitch in the matrix.
Speaker 3: And that's why I.
Speaker 5: Think those first couple of years was so energizing. Because
Speaker 5: it's like, wait till they find this out, and wait
Speaker 5: till and something will happen and the cavalry and he'll
Speaker 5: just get kicked out or he'll be disqualified. And it's like,
Speaker 5: not only that, but he was nearly re elected in
Speaker 5: twenty twenty, then he was charged with all of these crimes.
Speaker 3: Then he was convicted of being a rapist, and still
Speaker 3: looks like an overwhelming.
Speaker 5: Victory, and now he's got that process that except, yeah,
Speaker 5: that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 4: We always thought it was glitching the matrix and that
Speaker 4: it was like the other shoe will drop.
Speaker 3: It wasn't a flaw. It was a feature. They love
Speaker 3: this about him, They love all all of this about him.
Speaker 4: Can I ask one more question, Jesse, you said the
Speaker 4: Rogan endorsement was when you kind of knew things were
Speaker 4: not going well.
Speaker 1: Why did he do that and why did you do
Speaker 1: it's so late? Do you think I think that was intentional?
Speaker 6: I think the lateness of it all was intentional because
Speaker 6: it was on the day that was energizing. If I'm
Speaker 6: a man in and I'm trying really hard not to
Speaker 6: be disparaging, because I actually think this disparaging tone that
Speaker 6: is used against men has the problem as part of
Speaker 6: the problem. But what I was going to say is
Speaker 6: like the man who's sitting in his basement got up
Speaker 6: and went and voted because it was new, and it
Speaker 6: was the first thing that like I work up to.
Speaker 6: It was a headline. It was a headline that ran everywhere.
Speaker 6: It was genius.
Speaker 5: It was just like the same reason that the Washington Post,
Speaker 5: owned by Jeff Bezos, who went against what's been happening
Speaker 5: for the last sort of twenty or thirty years and.
Speaker 3: Didn't endorse either candidate.
Speaker 5: Everyone was talking about that, and the surprise and the
Speaker 5: analysis was that it's called something antipaider rey obedience that
Speaker 5: everybody knew, including Joe Rogan, including Elon Musk, including they
Speaker 5: sniffed the wind, and they knew if they went against
Speaker 5: Kamala they wouldn't be punished if Kamala got in, but
Speaker 5: if they went against Trump.
Speaker 3: He's got a burn book.
Speaker 2: Yah do you that but burn book. He has been
Speaker 2: clear about punishing his enemy and one of the most
Speaker 2: one of the things he's most well known for is
Speaker 2: his streak of intense revenge. So there'll be a lot
Speaker 2: of people in American media and politics right now packing
Speaker 2: their bags. I want to know what do we leave
Speaker 2: our out louders with. Obviously, as we say it's Wednesday night,
Speaker 2: we don't know for sure for sure, but this is
Speaker 2: the way it's all looking.
Speaker 3: I've got one bit of hope.
Speaker 5: So, as I said at the start, things work in pendulums, right,
Speaker 5: And I think one of the things that came out
Speaker 5: of a Trump presidency was me too. And I think
Speaker 5: that there's something that can be quite galvanizing and quite
Speaker 5: organizing and almost unifying.
Speaker 2: But we've just seen that mea. We've just seen this
Speaker 2: enormous swell of support for Harris.
Speaker 3: All the volunteers.
Speaker 2: I don't think the problem here is that the left
Speaker 2: have been galvanized. I think a lot of the blame
Speaker 2: will probably end up falling on the Democrats, and Biden
Speaker 2: should have resigned sooner, and they didn't go through the
Speaker 2: right process, and she was never a strong enough candidate
Speaker 2: and the nation wasn't ready for her. We'll see all that,
Speaker 2: but it's too soon for that now. But I think
Speaker 2: you can't argue that they haven't tried hard.
Speaker 1: I have a bright spot.
Speaker 3: Thank God.
Speaker 1: Trump's a bit miserable too, Like he looks tired.
Speaker 4: There was the swaying at the rally. I mean, he's
Speaker 4: not going to have a good time.
Speaker 2: But if he goes off to play golf, who he
Speaker 2: leaves in charge and not the people you really want
Speaker 2: in charge? JD. Don Junior, I'm not.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to stop it.
Speaker 6: I think sixteen was about Echo Chambers, and I think
Speaker 6: twenty twenty four is going to be about gender. I
Speaker 6: think that that's going to be the thing that's going
Speaker 6: to be the next year.
Speaker 4: We got there with Hillary because you said this to
Speaker 4: me recently, you said, the reason we didn't get that
Speaker 4: with Hillary is because she was a Clinton, so there
Speaker 4: was so much baggage there.
Speaker 1: I think it has got worse.
Speaker 2: But there's also but there's also always an excuse for
Speaker 2: why a woman isn't the right woman. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: she was a Clinton and Harris is of color, and
Speaker 2: the nation isn't ready for that, and that woman will
Speaker 2: be this, and that woman will be that. There's always
Speaker 2: a reason why the stop putting women forward because I.
Speaker 5: Don't exactly like I just for the rapist is what
Speaker 5: the popular votes seem to say in America.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm going to do. I don't know
Speaker 2: if I'm allowed to do this, I'll be checking in.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna turn my fucking phone off. That's what I'm
Speaker 2: gonna do.
Speaker 6: Until Friday when we upload. We're gonna do a Friday
Speaker 6: episode where we do not talk about the election one
Speaker 6: time because escapism and distraction.
Speaker 3: So there we go there on Friday with nothing about
Speaker 3: this dark day.
Speaker 1: Nothing.
Speaker 4: We love you, Thanks everyone.
Speaker 1: Big hugs out louders.
Speaker 2: That's all We've got, chocolate, ice cream coffee.
Speaker 3: Bye bye