1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:24,014 Speaker 1: is recorded on Hi. I'm Grace Rufrey. This is Muma 4 00:00:24,014 --> 00:00:27,694 Speaker 1: MIA's twice daily news podcast, The Quikie. The recent release 5 00:00:27,774 --> 00:00:31,814 Speaker 1: of season two of Ryan Murphy's hit series Monsters focuses 6 00:00:31,814 --> 00:00:35,974 Speaker 1: on brothers Lyle and Eric Menendez, reigniting the discussion around 7 00:00:35,974 --> 00:00:39,294 Speaker 1: the thirty five year old case. This very binge worthy 8 00:00:39,494 --> 00:00:44,014 Speaker 1: nine episode series has stirred up fresh conversations everyone from 9 00:00:44,014 --> 00:00:47,574 Speaker 1: the show's creators to the Menendez brothers themselves. There's even 10 00:00:47,614 --> 00:00:50,734 Speaker 1: a Kardashian a part of the conversation for some reason. 11 00:00:51,094 --> 00:00:54,734 Speaker 1: But the big question is should the Menendez brothers get 12 00:00:54,774 --> 00:00:58,094 Speaker 1: a retril before we get there. Here's the latest from 13 00:00:58,094 --> 00:01:01,814 Speaker 1: the Quickie newsroom for Wednesday, October two. Iran has fired 14 00:01:01,854 --> 00:01:05,734 Speaker 1: a salvo of ballistic missiles at Israel in retaliation for 15 00:01:05,894 --> 00:01:10,734 Speaker 1: Israel's campaign against Turan's Hesbala allies in Lebanon on Tuesday. 16 00:01:10,854 --> 00:01:14,374 Speaker 1: Alarms sounded across Israel and explosions could be heard in 17 00:01:14,454 --> 00:01:18,254 Speaker 1: Jerusalem and the Jordan River Valley. Israelis piled into bomb 18 00:01:18,254 --> 00:01:21,094 Speaker 1: shelters and reporters on state television lay flat on the 19 00:01:21,134 --> 00:01:25,454 Speaker 1: ground during live broadcasts. Israeli Army Radio said nearly two 20 00:01:25,494 --> 00:01:29,174 Speaker 1: hundred missiles had been launched into Israel from Iran. Israeli 21 00:01:29,214 --> 00:01:31,894 Speaker 1: military later sounded the all clear and said that Israelis 22 00:01:31,894 --> 00:01:35,934 Speaker 1: were free to leave their shelters. Military spokesman Daniel Hegari 23 00:01:36,054 --> 00:01:38,694 Speaker 1: said the military was not aware of any injuries resulting 24 00:01:38,694 --> 00:01:42,094 Speaker 1: from the Uranian missile attacks. Hegari did describe the attack 25 00:01:42,134 --> 00:01:45,814 Speaker 1: as serious and it would have consequences in the lead 26 00:01:45,894 --> 00:01:48,454 Speaker 1: up to Christmas. Retail bodies have worn to the Reserve 27 00:01:48,534 --> 00:01:51,734 Speaker 1: Bank that stronger consumer spending should not be an excuse 28 00:01:51,814 --> 00:01:55,934 Speaker 1: to increase interest rates. Retail trade figures for August revealed 29 00:01:55,934 --> 00:01:58,694 Speaker 1: a zero point seven percent increase for the month and 30 00:01:58,814 --> 00:02:01,734 Speaker 1: three point seven percent for the year, with warmer weather 31 00:02:01,814 --> 00:02:05,294 Speaker 1: driving discretionary spending on outdoor items as well as dining. 32 00:02:05,854 --> 00:02:09,054 Speaker 1: While the spike followed a sluggish July, the National Retail 33 00:02:09,054 --> 00:02:12,174 Speaker 1: Association urged the Central Bank not to take the data 34 00:02:12,254 --> 00:02:15,174 Speaker 1: as an indicator to push up interest rates. The Peak 35 00:02:15,174 --> 00:02:18,574 Speaker 1: Bodies Interim Chief executive Lindsay Carroll said that while August 36 00:02:18,654 --> 00:02:21,734 Speaker 1: figures were trending in the right direction. The retail sector 37 00:02:21,814 --> 00:02:26,054 Speaker 1: was still struggling, NAB Senior economist Taylor Nugant said the 38 00:02:26,094 --> 00:02:29,174 Speaker 1: retail data was assigned the federal government's tax cuts that 39 00:02:29,254 --> 00:02:31,694 Speaker 1: kicked in from July were starting to flow through to 40 00:02:31,734 --> 00:02:34,614 Speaker 1: the rest of the economy. Police have moved a head 41 00:02:34,654 --> 00:02:39,134 Speaker 1: off potential conflict, while Australia's major faiths have banded together 42 00:02:39,214 --> 00:02:42,654 Speaker 1: to urge people to find solace in compassion as tension 43 00:02:42,734 --> 00:02:46,094 Speaker 1: spike over conflict in the Middle East. As Palestinian and 44 00:02:46,174 --> 00:02:49,214 Speaker 1: Jewish communities prepared to mark the first anniversary of the 45 00:02:49,254 --> 00:02:52,894 Speaker 1: October seven attack on Israel by Hamas last year, New 46 00:02:52,934 --> 00:02:55,654 Speaker 1: South Wales Police Commissioner Karen wamp has decided to go 47 00:02:55,694 --> 00:02:58,934 Speaker 1: to court to block the planned long weekend protests in Sydney. 48 00:02:59,494 --> 00:03:01,694 Speaker 1: The force set in a statement on Tuesday morning it 49 00:03:01,734 --> 00:03:04,254 Speaker 1: could not be satisfied that the rallies set for Sunday 50 00:03:04,294 --> 00:03:08,974 Speaker 1: and Monday could proceed safely following negotiations with organizers. A 51 00:03:09,054 --> 00:03:12,294 Speaker 1: statement and said New South Wales Police recognizes and supports 52 00:03:12,334 --> 00:03:15,214 Speaker 1: the rights of individuals and groups to exercise their rights 53 00:03:15,214 --> 00:03:18,894 Speaker 1: of free speech and peaceful assembly. However, the first priority 54 00:03:19,014 --> 00:03:21,414 Speaker 1: is the safety of the participants and the wider community. 55 00:03:21,934 --> 00:03:24,934 Speaker 1: Faith leaders are calling for calm, with the war spreading 56 00:03:24,974 --> 00:03:28,774 Speaker 1: beyond Israel and occupied Palestinian territories to now include Yemen 57 00:03:28,814 --> 00:03:33,454 Speaker 1: and Lebanon. Claudia Schaibam is said to become Mexico's first 58 00:03:33,494 --> 00:03:38,334 Speaker 1: female president, inheriting significant challenges such as combating organized crime 59 00:03:38,454 --> 00:03:42,254 Speaker 1: and reducing a large fiscal deficit. Shibom, a sixty two 60 00:03:42,294 --> 00:03:45,294 Speaker 1: year old scientist and former mayor of Mexico City, will 61 00:03:45,334 --> 00:03:48,734 Speaker 1: be inaugurated for a six year term. Analysts expect her 62 00:03:48,734 --> 00:03:53,214 Speaker 1: to prioritize investor confidence, particularly following a controversial judicial reform. 63 00:03:53,454 --> 00:03:57,494 Speaker 1: Alberto Ramoss of Goldman Sachs emphasized the need for predictable, 64 00:03:57,694 --> 00:04:03,054 Speaker 1: investment friendly policies and fiscal discipline. Additionally, the upcoming US elections, 65 00:04:03,174 --> 00:04:07,934 Speaker 1: especially a potential Trump victory, could affect market stability. Shibam's 66 00:04:07,934 --> 00:04:11,014 Speaker 1: first budget, due on November fifth, Dean will be closely 67 00:04:11,054 --> 00:04:13,774 Speaker 1: examined for signs of her commitment to reducing the deficit. 68 00:04:14,454 --> 00:04:17,854 Speaker 1: That's your latest news headlines. Next, how accurately does the 69 00:04:17,854 --> 00:04:21,654 Speaker 1: Netflix series Monster portray the real story of the Menendez 70 00:04:21,694 --> 00:04:25,014 Speaker 1: brothers crimes and has it spiked a conversation about who 71 00:04:25,054 --> 00:04:41,374 Speaker 1: the true monster is in this case. On September nineteen, 72 00:04:41,934 --> 00:04:45,654 Speaker 1: Netflix released season two of Monster, following the success of 73 00:04:45,694 --> 00:04:48,974 Speaker 1: the Jeffrey Dahmer story in twenty twenty two. This new 74 00:04:49,014 --> 00:04:52,094 Speaker 1: season deals into the lives and crimes of brothers Lyle 75 00:04:52,174 --> 00:04:55,094 Speaker 1: and Eric Menendez. If you haven't seen it yet, be 76 00:04:55,174 --> 00:04:58,134 Speaker 1: warned there are spoilers ahead. Here is a breakdown of 77 00:04:58,174 --> 00:05:03,854 Speaker 1: the story. The real life story. On August twenty, nineteen 78 00:05:03,894 --> 00:05:08,254 Speaker 1: eighty nine, Jose and Kitty Menendez, wealthy entertainment executives, were 79 00:05:08,294 --> 00:05:12,454 Speaker 1: shot and killed in their Hills home. Brothers Lyel and Eric, 80 00:05:12,494 --> 00:05:14,814 Speaker 1: who were twenty one and eighteen at the time, and 81 00:05:14,934 --> 00:05:18,294 Speaker 1: the sons of Jose and Kitty, initially claimed they discovered 82 00:05:18,294 --> 00:05:22,214 Speaker 1: their parents' bodies after returning home. Due to the brutality 83 00:05:22,254 --> 00:05:25,094 Speaker 1: of the murders, the police first investigated the incident as 84 00:05:25,094 --> 00:05:28,454 Speaker 1: a fallout of organized crime, not considering the brothers as 85 00:05:28,494 --> 00:05:31,894 Speaker 1: suspects at all. It was months after the deaths of 86 00:05:31,974 --> 00:05:34,374 Speaker 1: Jose and Kitty that it was revealed that Eric had 87 00:05:34,374 --> 00:05:37,454 Speaker 1: confessed to the murders during a session with his therapist, 88 00:05:37,934 --> 00:05:39,974 Speaker 1: and at a twist that seems like it comes from 89 00:05:39,974 --> 00:05:42,614 Speaker 1: the TV show, but it is in fact the real story. 90 00:05:43,054 --> 00:05:46,654 Speaker 1: It was the therapist's mistress who leaked the taped confession 91 00:05:46,694 --> 00:05:52,134 Speaker 1: to the police. In March nineteen ninety both Lyel and 92 00:05:52,254 --> 00:05:55,054 Speaker 1: Eric were arrested for the murders. The trial, and there 93 00:05:55,054 --> 00:05:58,894 Speaker 1: were many trials and retrials, lasted over three years, and 94 00:05:58,934 --> 00:06:01,134 Speaker 1: they would reveal that the brothers had been the victims 95 00:06:01,174 --> 00:06:04,654 Speaker 1: of years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse at the 96 00:06:04,694 --> 00:06:08,014 Speaker 1: hands of their father. In the first trial, both the 97 00:06:08,094 --> 00:06:11,134 Speaker 1: juries for Lyle and Eric were unable to reach a verdict, 98 00:06:11,174 --> 00:06:15,094 Speaker 1: resulting in a mistrial. In nineteen ninety six, almost seven 99 00:06:15,174 --> 00:06:18,414 Speaker 1: years after the murder, both brothers were convicted of first 100 00:06:18,454 --> 00:06:21,934 Speaker 1: degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder, sentenced to life 101 00:06:21,934 --> 00:06:25,214 Speaker 1: in prison, carrying out their terms in separate prisons without 102 00:06:25,254 --> 00:06:28,254 Speaker 1: the possibility of parole. And now this is where Ryan 103 00:06:28,334 --> 00:06:32,734 Speaker 1: Murphy comes in, the creative mind behind Glee, American Horror 104 00:06:32,814 --> 00:06:35,654 Speaker 1: Story and The Watcher. He turned his attention to Eric 105 00:06:35,694 --> 00:06:39,054 Speaker 1: and Lyle's story for the latest season of Monster, where 106 00:06:39,134 --> 00:06:43,254 Speaker 1: true crime stories are retold in a fictional ish way. 107 00:06:44,014 --> 00:06:46,774 Speaker 1: Reactions have been mixed and more. Some people have praised 108 00:06:46,854 --> 00:06:50,534 Speaker 1: the performances, others have criticized the show's depiction of real 109 00:06:50,534 --> 00:06:55,494 Speaker 1: life events. Eric Menendez himself released a statement condemning the series, 110 00:06:55,734 --> 00:06:59,494 Speaker 1: particularly its portrayal of his older brother Lyle, who he 111 00:06:59,614 --> 00:07:03,974 Speaker 1: said was depicted in a cartoonishly villainous way. In response, 112 00:07:04,174 --> 00:07:07,534 Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy defended the show, claiming it's the best thing 113 00:07:07,614 --> 00:07:11,134 Speaker 1: to happen to the brothers in thirty year years. Murphy's 114 00:07:11,134 --> 00:07:13,894 Speaker 1: main defense was that Eric hadn't even watched the series, 115 00:07:14,174 --> 00:07:17,374 Speaker 1: and that also he and the creators made significant efforts 116 00:07:17,454 --> 00:07:19,934 Speaker 1: to give the brothers a voice about what happened to them. 117 00:07:20,374 --> 00:07:23,814 Speaker 1: For example, episode five is shot in one continuous take, 118 00:07:24,094 --> 00:07:27,294 Speaker 1: with the camera slowly tracking towards Eric over thirty three 119 00:07:27,334 --> 00:07:30,734 Speaker 1: minutes as he recounts in detail the sexual abuse he 120 00:07:30,774 --> 00:07:32,814 Speaker 1: suffered from his father started. 121 00:07:32,454 --> 00:07:37,654 Speaker 2: With massages after tennis and stuff, which is funny, you know, 122 00:07:37,734 --> 00:07:39,374 Speaker 2: because when a kid does sports, it's not like you 123 00:07:39,414 --> 00:07:40,334 Speaker 2: need a massage. 124 00:07:41,974 --> 00:07:45,134 Speaker 1: When Cooper Koch, who plays Eric Menendez, was asked about 125 00:07:45,214 --> 00:07:47,334 Speaker 1: Eric's thoughts, he had this to say. 126 00:07:47,454 --> 00:07:50,174 Speaker 2: You know, I understand where he's coming from. It's so 127 00:07:50,774 --> 00:07:54,494 Speaker 2: difficult to have something like this happen where Hollywood is 128 00:07:54,694 --> 00:07:58,014 Speaker 2: retelling this story in a dramatized fashion, and just it's 129 00:07:58,054 --> 00:08:00,974 Speaker 2: so incredibly difficult. So I totally understand where he's coming from, 130 00:08:00,974 --> 00:08:02,894 Speaker 2: and I respect that, you know, he has to make 131 00:08:02,934 --> 00:08:05,334 Speaker 2: a make a statement like that. I would just encourage 132 00:08:05,414 --> 00:08:08,694 Speaker 2: to remind people that this is a dramatized retelling of 133 00:08:08,774 --> 00:08:12,374 Speaker 2: their story, and there are parts of it that we're 134 00:08:12,374 --> 00:08:16,214 Speaker 2: showing perspectives from different people, like, for example, like Dominic 135 00:08:16,254 --> 00:08:18,774 Speaker 2: Dunn or even the parents perspective, Like we're showing all 136 00:08:18,814 --> 00:08:21,614 Speaker 2: of these points of view to ultimately have the audience 137 00:08:21,614 --> 00:08:24,694 Speaker 2: act as a jury, and so I would encourage people 138 00:08:24,694 --> 00:08:28,094 Speaker 2: to really look at the story from different contexts. 139 00:08:28,694 --> 00:08:31,014 Speaker 1: Laura Brodnick is the head of Entertainment at Muma Maya 140 00:08:31,134 --> 00:08:34,294 Speaker 1: and host of our daily entertainment podcast, The Spill. She's 141 00:08:34,334 --> 00:08:37,374 Speaker 1: going to help clear up what's factual and what's fabricated 142 00:08:37,414 --> 00:08:40,214 Speaker 1: in the series, Laura, everyone has weighed in on the show, 143 00:08:40,374 --> 00:08:42,334 Speaker 1: from the real brothers to the creators of the show 144 00:08:42,334 --> 00:08:44,694 Speaker 1: and of course TikTok. So there's always going to be 145 00:08:44,734 --> 00:08:47,334 Speaker 1: someone who's mad at how they're portrayed, and that's what's 146 00:08:47,334 --> 00:08:49,014 Speaker 1: happened here with this story. Can you tell me a 147 00:08:49,014 --> 00:08:51,654 Speaker 1: little bit about the back and forth between the Menendez 148 00:08:51,694 --> 00:08:53,854 Speaker 1: brothers and the show creator, Ryan Murphy. 149 00:08:54,334 --> 00:08:56,534 Speaker 3: Yes, So after this series came out and it block 150 00:08:56,574 --> 00:08:58,774 Speaker 3: up on Netflix, that began trending and there's a lot 151 00:08:58,774 --> 00:09:01,614 Speaker 3: of conversation about the real life story that had inspired 152 00:09:01,654 --> 00:09:04,254 Speaker 3: the series. The brothers put out a statement through their 153 00:09:04,294 --> 00:09:07,934 Speaker 3: wives saying that they believe Ryan Murphy cannot be this 154 00:09:08,134 --> 00:09:10,894 Speaker 3: naive and inaccurate about the facts of their lives, and 155 00:09:10,974 --> 00:09:13,294 Speaker 3: so they chose to believe that he made the show 156 00:09:13,374 --> 00:09:16,454 Speaker 3: with bad intent, and what they're saying there is that 157 00:09:16,534 --> 00:09:19,694 Speaker 3: he wasn't aware of the tragedies surrounding their crime and 158 00:09:19,734 --> 00:09:24,014 Speaker 3: that he really set their case backward by weaving untruths 159 00:09:24,094 --> 00:09:26,734 Speaker 3: into it. And he also went on to say that 160 00:09:26,774 --> 00:09:29,534 Speaker 3: the prosecution built a narrative on a belief system that 161 00:09:29,574 --> 00:09:32,614 Speaker 3: males were not sexually abused and that males experienced rape 162 00:09:32,654 --> 00:09:35,774 Speaker 3: trauma differently than women. And their statement went on to 163 00:09:35,814 --> 00:09:39,374 Speaker 3: say that these were awful wives, is what they called them, 164 00:09:39,534 --> 00:09:42,534 Speaker 3: and that it really went on to disrupt and expose 165 00:09:42,614 --> 00:09:44,974 Speaker 3: the brave victims would come forward. So that's really the 166 00:09:44,974 --> 00:09:48,174 Speaker 3: stance they were taking. And then Ryan Murphy was made 167 00:09:48,214 --> 00:09:50,254 Speaker 3: aware of these comments and in all that in You 168 00:09:50,894 --> 00:09:54,414 Speaker 3: he basically said that he thinks it's very interesting that 169 00:09:54,454 --> 00:09:56,854 Speaker 3: they would issue a statement without having seen the show 170 00:09:56,894 --> 00:10:00,454 Speaker 3: because obviously they're still in prison. He did go on 171 00:10:00,494 --> 00:10:02,894 Speaker 3: to acknowledge that it can be really hard to see 172 00:10:02,894 --> 00:10:05,254 Speaker 3: your life up on screen and not have control over 173 00:10:05,294 --> 00:10:08,454 Speaker 3: telling your own story. But what Ryan Murphy went on 174 00:10:08,494 --> 00:10:11,934 Speaker 3: to say is that he thinks the abuse was handled 175 00:10:12,014 --> 00:10:14,294 Speaker 3: basically in the right way and it wasn't the center 176 00:10:14,374 --> 00:10:16,934 Speaker 3: of it. And he did also think it was important 177 00:10:16,974 --> 00:10:19,494 Speaker 3: to say that there were four people involved in this case, 178 00:10:19,934 --> 00:10:22,734 Speaker 3: So he went on to say that you know the parents, 179 00:10:22,894 --> 00:10:25,454 Speaker 3: it's important to show the story from their perspective as well. 180 00:10:25,694 --> 00:10:27,974 Speaker 3: These two people are dead and we had an obligation 181 00:10:28,054 --> 00:10:31,374 Speaker 3: of storytellers to try and tell their story and put 182 00:10:31,414 --> 00:10:34,574 Speaker 3: perspective based on their research. So he has come out 183 00:10:34,574 --> 00:10:37,734 Speaker 3: and said he's very happy with how the show came out. 184 00:10:38,494 --> 00:10:40,934 Speaker 1: And is this something that Ryan Murphy's done before, Like 185 00:10:40,974 --> 00:10:42,934 Speaker 1: he has obviously made quite a lot of shows, But 186 00:10:42,974 --> 00:10:47,134 Speaker 1: does he kind of pick historical cases or real life 187 00:10:47,134 --> 00:10:49,574 Speaker 1: stories and make them a fictionalized version. 188 00:10:50,294 --> 00:10:52,494 Speaker 3: Yes, that's been his mo for a long time. With 189 00:10:52,894 --> 00:10:56,254 Speaker 3: the previous Monster series, which was Jeffrey Darmer, he was 190 00:10:56,334 --> 00:11:00,214 Speaker 3: accused of a sensational in parts of the story or 191 00:11:00,294 --> 00:11:02,534 Speaker 3: not sticking to the truth. But because there was this 192 00:11:02,574 --> 00:11:06,734 Speaker 3: definitive thought throughout the public that Jeffrey Darmer was as 193 00:11:06,734 --> 00:11:09,974 Speaker 3: the title suggested, there wasn't this pushback from his family 194 00:11:10,014 --> 00:11:13,134 Speaker 3: and friends over the portrayal, And even shows like Feud, 195 00:11:13,174 --> 00:11:16,334 Speaker 3: which is based on Betty Davis and Joan Crawford kind 196 00:11:16,334 --> 00:11:19,774 Speaker 3: of coming through with their real story, people did kind 197 00:11:19,774 --> 00:11:23,254 Speaker 3: of understand that he was taking a very fictionalized account 198 00:11:23,294 --> 00:11:25,014 Speaker 3: on what had happened, even though he had pulled from 199 00:11:25,014 --> 00:11:28,094 Speaker 3: real information. But what's interesting about that is actress Olivia 200 00:11:28,134 --> 00:11:30,774 Speaker 3: de Hamlin came forward and said that her portrayal in 201 00:11:30,854 --> 00:11:34,254 Speaker 3: the show was incorrect and she was very unhappy about it. 202 00:11:34,334 --> 00:11:37,054 Speaker 3: So he's always very much toeing the line between taking 203 00:11:37,094 --> 00:11:40,374 Speaker 3: these real life stories and sensationalizing them. But every so 204 00:11:40,374 --> 00:11:42,894 Speaker 3: often the real people they're based on do hit back. 205 00:11:43,294 --> 00:11:45,094 Speaker 1: And I've got to ask, with your knowledge of being 206 00:11:45,214 --> 00:11:48,174 Speaker 1: the host of the spill, why is Kim Kardashian now 207 00:11:48,214 --> 00:11:49,094 Speaker 1: a part of the conversation. 208 00:11:49,814 --> 00:11:51,534 Speaker 3: Yes, so this is not as strange as it would 209 00:11:51,534 --> 00:11:54,454 Speaker 3: seem from the initial headlines. So Kim Kardashian for a 210 00:11:54,574 --> 00:11:57,734 Speaker 3: very long time has been involved in prison reform and 211 00:11:57,854 --> 00:12:00,534 Speaker 3: part of her work in that area, along with meeting 212 00:12:00,694 --> 00:12:03,094 Speaker 3: with different people who have the ability to change the 213 00:12:03,174 --> 00:12:06,734 Speaker 3: system and being a spokesperson for the work that's been 214 00:12:06,814 --> 00:12:08,654 Speaker 3: done there, she does do a lot of visits to 215 00:12:08,694 --> 00:12:11,934 Speaker 3: different prisons to speak with the prisoners and the people 216 00:12:11,974 --> 00:12:15,734 Speaker 3: involved and hear their experiences. So in this particular case, 217 00:12:15,974 --> 00:12:18,134 Speaker 3: yet she did go to the prison where Lam is 218 00:12:18,214 --> 00:12:22,494 Speaker 3: being held, and the reason that she interacted with him 219 00:12:22,734 --> 00:12:24,534 Speaker 3: it doesn't look like she was actually there just to 220 00:12:24,614 --> 00:12:27,254 Speaker 3: visit him, but she was in there to talk about 221 00:12:27,294 --> 00:12:29,934 Speaker 3: inmate rehabilitation, which is something she's been involved with for 222 00:12:29,974 --> 00:12:32,854 Speaker 3: a long time, and that's how their parts crossed. Obviously, 223 00:12:32,974 --> 00:12:35,574 Speaker 3: Kim Kardashian is very much part of the Ryan Murphy 224 00:12:35,734 --> 00:12:38,454 Speaker 3: universe now. She just had her first big acting role 225 00:12:38,734 --> 00:12:40,934 Speaker 3: in American Horror Story, which is one of his shows. 226 00:12:41,254 --> 00:12:43,694 Speaker 3: She and Ryan Murphy are working on a new series 227 00:12:43,734 --> 00:12:46,254 Speaker 3: together which she is the star and producer, and so 228 00:12:46,334 --> 00:12:48,854 Speaker 3: that's why Cooper Koch, who is the actor who played 229 00:12:49,014 --> 00:12:51,654 Speaker 3: Eric in the series, was also present along with a 230 00:12:51,694 --> 00:12:55,014 Speaker 3: few other Kardashian family members. It was classic Ryan Murphy 231 00:12:55,054 --> 00:12:57,934 Speaker 3: with these two worlds of this real life crime and 232 00:12:57,974 --> 00:12:59,214 Speaker 3: Hollywood coming together. 233 00:12:59,734 --> 00:13:01,294 Speaker 1: I'm going to just get your knowledge on a quick 234 00:13:01,334 --> 00:13:03,134 Speaker 1: game of true or false from the series so we 235 00:13:03,174 --> 00:13:04,774 Speaker 1: can clear up some of the facts and some of 236 00:13:04,814 --> 00:13:07,294 Speaker 1: the fiction, Laura. In the series, the boys think that 237 00:13:07,294 --> 00:13:08,654 Speaker 1: they're not in the will, so they go on this 238 00:13:08,694 --> 00:13:11,174 Speaker 1: big spending space to spend as much money before the 239 00:13:11,214 --> 00:13:13,174 Speaker 1: will is found. Is this true? 240 00:13:13,694 --> 00:13:15,694 Speaker 3: Yes, that is true. There's a lot of documentation to 241 00:13:15,734 --> 00:13:16,574 Speaker 3: prove that did happen. 242 00:13:16,934 --> 00:13:18,934 Speaker 1: One of the most talked about moments is the use 243 00:13:18,974 --> 00:13:21,374 Speaker 1: of the Millie Vanilli song Girl, I'm going to Miss 244 00:13:21,374 --> 00:13:22,934 Speaker 1: You at the funeral. Did this happen? 245 00:13:23,374 --> 00:13:25,414 Speaker 3: Yes, that's the one moment from the series people thought 246 00:13:25,534 --> 00:13:27,294 Speaker 3: was false. But there's been a lot of people who 247 00:13:27,294 --> 00:13:29,854 Speaker 3: were at the funeral who have attested that that did happen. 248 00:13:30,214 --> 00:13:33,374 Speaker 1: There's also a nod to some type of sexual ancestral 249 00:13:33,454 --> 00:13:36,334 Speaker 1: relationship between the two brothers. Was there evidence of this? 250 00:13:37,134 --> 00:13:39,094 Speaker 3: No, And this is what their family have really been 251 00:13:39,174 --> 00:13:41,614 Speaker 3: pushing since the show came out, is that there's nothing 252 00:13:41,694 --> 00:13:44,814 Speaker 3: documented in the court cases or the media coverage at 253 00:13:44,814 --> 00:13:46,334 Speaker 3: that time to suggest that happened. 254 00:13:46,974 --> 00:13:50,054 Speaker 1: A lot of action happens around Lyle's two pay We've 255 00:13:50,094 --> 00:13:51,774 Speaker 1: got Lyle's dad being the one to tell him to 256 00:13:51,814 --> 00:13:53,934 Speaker 1: get it. We've got him in jail asking for the 257 00:13:53,974 --> 00:13:56,854 Speaker 1: wig glue, We've got the mother pulling off the two pay. 258 00:13:57,054 --> 00:13:59,014 Speaker 1: What are the factual elements of the two pay? 259 00:13:59,854 --> 00:14:01,694 Speaker 3: So we know that he had spoken in the past 260 00:14:01,734 --> 00:14:04,254 Speaker 3: about having hand lost due to the abuse that he 261 00:14:04,334 --> 00:14:06,934 Speaker 3: suffered from his father, and what came out in the 262 00:14:06,934 --> 00:14:08,814 Speaker 3: court case. The information that we have is that there 263 00:14:08,934 --> 00:14:10,854 Speaker 3: is evidence of it. Mother pulled off the two pay 264 00:14:10,934 --> 00:14:11,934 Speaker 3: at some stage. 265 00:14:12,134 --> 00:14:15,094 Speaker 1: And lastly, a historical version of O. J. Simpson comes 266 00:14:15,134 --> 00:14:17,454 Speaker 1: into the final episode. Did this ever happen? 267 00:14:17,894 --> 00:14:19,894 Speaker 3: Yes, this is another moment that people thought that was 268 00:14:19,934 --> 00:14:22,614 Speaker 3: created for the series because it seemed impossible. But OJ 269 00:14:22,734 --> 00:14:25,534 Speaker 3: Simpson was actually in the cell next to them in 270 00:14:25,534 --> 00:14:28,134 Speaker 3: that case. That's a real life fact where these two RYD. 271 00:14:28,214 --> 00:14:31,094 Speaker 3: Murphy shows also crossed over in the real world. 272 00:14:35,054 --> 00:14:38,134 Speaker 1: Like so many biopic films and series based on true stories, 273 00:14:38,414 --> 00:14:41,174 Speaker 1: it kicks off a conversation and for Monster, although it's 274 00:14:41,214 --> 00:14:44,094 Speaker 1: set in the nineteen eighties into the nineteen nineties, it's 275 00:14:44,134 --> 00:14:47,534 Speaker 1: now analyzed under the lens of a twenty twenty four landscape, 276 00:14:47,614 --> 00:14:50,174 Speaker 1: and what we have come to understand about sexual assault 277 00:14:50,214 --> 00:14:53,654 Speaker 1: victims over the past few decades. In recent years, the 278 00:14:53,694 --> 00:14:56,294 Speaker 1: case resurfaced on social media, and then the announcement of 279 00:14:56,294 --> 00:14:59,414 Speaker 1: the series prompted a lot of buzz, but some criticized 280 00:14:59,414 --> 00:15:02,574 Speaker 1: the decision to include the brothers in the Monster anthology series, 281 00:15:02,854 --> 00:15:05,174 Speaker 1: as they felt it was inappropriate to put the brothers 282 00:15:05,214 --> 00:15:07,974 Speaker 1: in the same category as the serial killer Jeffrey Dharmer. 283 00:15:08,574 --> 00:15:10,374 Speaker 1: The series has prompted so many people to look at 284 00:15:10,374 --> 00:15:13,094 Speaker 1: the brothers in a more sympathetic light. Some have come 285 00:15:13,094 --> 00:15:16,174 Speaker 1: to believe that while the Menendez brothers committed a terrible crime, 286 00:15:16,614 --> 00:15:20,174 Speaker 1: they were also victims of abuse, not cold blooded killers. 287 00:15:20,694 --> 00:15:22,934 Speaker 1: So would this case have a different verdict and sentencing 288 00:15:22,974 --> 00:15:25,654 Speaker 1: if it was tried today? John Suitor is the principal 289 00:15:25,694 --> 00:15:29,174 Speaker 1: at the law firm John Suitor Legal. He's watched the series. John, 290 00:15:29,254 --> 00:15:31,454 Speaker 1: do you think if this case went to trial in 291 00:15:31,494 --> 00:15:33,734 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four the outcome would be different? 292 00:15:34,494 --> 00:15:39,774 Speaker 4: I certainly do grace first analyze the Menendez brothers. Even 293 00:15:39,974 --> 00:15:44,174 Speaker 4: if conducted with optimal respect and sensitivity, sexual cases will 294 00:15:44,254 --> 00:15:48,734 Speaker 4: invariably be hard to prove and trials difficult for complainants. 295 00:15:49,134 --> 00:15:52,654 Speaker 4: Here Lyle and Eric were the accused of course, cross 296 00:15:52,654 --> 00:15:55,734 Speaker 4: examination was essential for a fair trial, and of course, 297 00:15:56,254 --> 00:16:00,214 Speaker 4: the prosecution argued vehemently the reason that they did murder 298 00:16:00,254 --> 00:16:03,854 Speaker 4: their mother and father was to inherit the father's multi 299 00:16:03,854 --> 00:16:07,174 Speaker 4: million dollar estate. During the trial, the brothers argued that 300 00:16:07,214 --> 00:16:10,374 Speaker 4: they committed the murders out of fear that their father 301 00:16:10,494 --> 00:16:13,814 Speaker 4: would kill them after they threatened to expose him for 302 00:16:13,934 --> 00:16:18,094 Speaker 4: many years of sexual, physically and mental abuse. That then, 303 00:16:18,134 --> 00:16:22,414 Speaker 4: of course raised the defenses of profocation and a lifetime 304 00:16:22,414 --> 00:16:26,654 Speaker 4: of sexual abuse by the father pedophile. The mother enabled 305 00:16:26,894 --> 00:16:31,054 Speaker 4: and in fact apparently encouraged the father. This Netflix series 306 00:16:31,094 --> 00:16:33,774 Speaker 4: of Monsters should have focused on the abuse suffered by 307 00:16:33,854 --> 00:16:36,854 Speaker 4: Lyle and Eric. There was compelling evidence that they were 308 00:16:36,894 --> 00:16:39,854 Speaker 4: telling the truth. For instance, there was a letter written 309 00:16:39,854 --> 00:16:43,654 Speaker 4: by Eric eight months before them described the harrowing, horrible 310 00:16:43,694 --> 00:16:48,534 Speaker 4: abuse that he suffered at the hands of his father. Now, regrettably, 311 00:16:48,734 --> 00:16:52,934 Speaker 4: Judge Danny Weisberg disallowed nearly all defense evidence related to 312 00:16:52,974 --> 00:16:56,534 Speaker 4: the brother's abuse. So, in my view, having viewed the 313 00:16:56,574 --> 00:16:59,294 Speaker 4: Monster's series on Netflix, the way that the case is 314 00:16:59,334 --> 00:17:02,054 Speaker 4: depicted under minds all abuse cases. 315 00:17:02,854 --> 00:17:07,534 Speaker 1: How we now look at sexual abuse victims. How would 316 00:17:07,574 --> 00:17:11,734 Speaker 1: this case have been tried differently? And for example, like 317 00:17:11,774 --> 00:17:14,094 Speaker 1: with my limited knowledge of the law, would they have 318 00:17:14,134 --> 00:17:17,574 Speaker 1: gotten manslaughter in your opinion, instead of murder one So. 319 00:17:17,654 --> 00:17:21,574 Speaker 4: If it hadn't been tried today, the evidence would have 320 00:17:21,614 --> 00:17:25,734 Speaker 4: been allowed to be performed by a jury in terms 321 00:17:25,774 --> 00:17:28,694 Speaker 4: of the decades of sexual abuse. There would have been 322 00:17:29,094 --> 00:17:33,414 Speaker 4: safeguard put into place in the way that they gave 323 00:17:33,454 --> 00:17:36,574 Speaker 4: their evidence, and more particularly in the manner that the 324 00:17:36,614 --> 00:17:41,094 Speaker 4: prosecution have Chriss examined the Menendez brothers in a manner 325 00:17:41,134 --> 00:17:46,174 Speaker 4: which was respectful, not demeaning, but also robust. We've got 326 00:17:46,174 --> 00:17:49,014 Speaker 4: to remember that the prosecution has a job to do. 327 00:17:49,814 --> 00:17:52,094 Speaker 1: And in your opinion, John, do you think we should 328 00:17:52,134 --> 00:17:54,574 Speaker 1: be concerned when people like Ryan Murphy and his show 329 00:17:55,094 --> 00:17:58,414 Speaker 1: Monsters is bringing cases back into the public domain when 330 00:17:58,454 --> 00:18:00,454 Speaker 1: they make shows like this, or should we be welcoming 331 00:18:00,454 --> 00:18:02,214 Speaker 1: this conversation The. 332 00:18:02,094 --> 00:18:05,654 Speaker 4: Way that it's depicted in the Netflix series Monsters is 333 00:18:05,814 --> 00:18:10,614 Speaker 4: kewed and undermines those who have suffered abuse at the 334 00:18:10,734 --> 00:18:15,334 Speaker 4: hands of perpetrators. What's compelling in this case is that 335 00:18:15,694 --> 00:18:19,854 Speaker 4: what wasn't allowed a trial waspelling evidence of cousins who 336 00:18:19,854 --> 00:18:23,494 Speaker 4: were told many years prior to the murders about the 337 00:18:23,534 --> 00:18:26,294 Speaker 4: sexual abuse, and some of the cousins actually view the 338 00:18:26,374 --> 00:18:29,894 Speaker 4: father walking to the shower when one of the brothers 339 00:18:29,974 --> 00:18:33,254 Speaker 4: was actually in their fairly cappelling evidence, and the abuse 340 00:18:33,414 --> 00:18:35,894 Speaker 4: was divulged by the men of the brothers as they 341 00:18:35,974 --> 00:18:40,054 Speaker 4: grew into adulthood, but that is allowed in my view. 342 00:18:40,254 --> 00:18:44,734 Speaker 4: The way that the Netflix series Mons is presented is 343 00:18:45,134 --> 00:18:47,974 Speaker 4: confounding backwood and regress it. 344 00:18:51,334 --> 00:18:54,174 Speaker 1: Netflix has announced that they are releasing a documentary from 345 00:18:54,214 --> 00:18:57,214 Speaker 1: the brother's perspectives with interviews of them from jail that 346 00:18:57,334 --> 00:18:59,694 Speaker 1: gives them a chance to share their own versions of events. 347 00:19:00,094 --> 00:19:03,614 Speaker 1: The series is premiering on October seventh. Thanks for taking 348 00:19:03,614 --> 00:19:05,534 Speaker 1: some time to feed your mind with us today, and 349 00:19:05,574 --> 00:19:07,574 Speaker 1: make sure you check out our sister podcast, The Spill 350 00:19:07,694 --> 00:19:10,134 Speaker 1: for your daily pop culture fix. Pop a link to 351 00:19:10,134 --> 00:19:12,534 Speaker 1: that in the show notes. This episode of The Quikie 352 00:19:12,574 --> 00:19:14,974 Speaker 1: is produced by me Grace Ruverray and our senior producer 353 00:19:15,054 --> 00:19:17,774 Speaker 1: Taylor Strano, with audio production by Tom Lyon.