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Speaker 1: This episode of CZ the A is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by David Jones and their new skinnovation platform, celebrating the

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Speaker 1: best and brightest in skincare.

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Speaker 2: You can sometimes, especially as women, we can stick very

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Speaker 2: closely to the path that we have set out in

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Speaker 2: our heads. I was so set on this idea of

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Speaker 2: what my job and my life was going to be

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Speaker 2: for the next However many years and I suddenly turned

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Speaker 2: around and went, doesn't actually work for my life anymore?

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was the goal of the fourteen year old me,

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Speaker 2: and probably that you know many many ages after, but

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Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily the right goal for the forty year

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Speaker 2: old me. I think these things need to stay fluid.

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Speaker 2: And he'd be like, you know, you've talked a lot

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Speaker 2: about comfort zones over the years, but I don't think

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Speaker 2: you've ever really left yours.

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Speaker 3: This is what this means. Like this, this is the

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Speaker 3: literal definition of leaving your comfort zone.

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Speaker 2: That I'd be like, I know, but my old comfort

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Speaker 2: zone came with free handbags.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the cs THEA Podcast. Busy and happy are

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Speaker 1: not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes

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Speaker 1: the heart sings. We work, then we rest, but rarely

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Speaker 1: we play and often don't realize there's more than one way.

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Speaker 1: So this is a platform to hear and explore the

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Speaker 1: stories of those who found lives they adore, the good,

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Speaker 1: bad and ugly, the best and worst day will bear

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Speaker 1: all the facets of seizing your yea. I'm Sarah Davidson

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Speaker 1: or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned unentrepreneur who

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Speaker 1: swapped the suits and heels to co found Matcha Maiden

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Speaker 1: and matcha Milkbar Ces. The Ya is a series of

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Speaker 1: conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the

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Speaker 1: self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. I

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Speaker 1: know I say it all the time, but I want

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Speaker 1: to thank you all again for giving me a reason

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Speaker 1: to create this show. I've had some lovely, lovely messages

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Speaker 1: recently about how the podcast and the book have helped

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Speaker 1: bring some yea to a tumultuous year, and it has

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Speaker 1: absolutely done the same for me at this end. Chatting

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Speaker 1: to our guests allows me so much growth and inspiration,

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Speaker 1: so honestly, it is just a pure bonus that some

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Speaker 1: of you also gain as much as I do, and

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Speaker 1: it definitely makes people more likely to say yes, and

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Speaker 1: if it was just me creeping on them to ask

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Speaker 1: intimate questions about their lives outside the context of a podcast.

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Speaker 1: And this week's guest is someone I've admired for a

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Speaker 1: long time, so I'm feeling very grateful to have Justine

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Speaker 1: Cullen on the show. Few people actually end up living

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Speaker 1: out their childhood dreams, either because the dream changes or

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Speaker 1: because life does. But enchanted by the glossy pages of

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Speaker 1: the first fashion magazine she ever read, Justine made it

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Speaker 1: her mission to conquer the extremely competitive, coveted, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: convoluted ladder of the publishing world and ultimately landed her

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Speaker 1: dream job as editor in chief at L Magazine. Her

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Speaker 1: journey reinforces everything I love to say about being open

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Speaker 1: to whatever pathway might get you to your dream and

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Speaker 1: being patient with the steps along the way. But it's

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Speaker 1: her journey from that dream that I found most interesting

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Speaker 1: in how it forced her to untangle her identity from

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Speaker 1: the prestige, the title, and everything that satisfied her former

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Speaker 1: self to build the next chapter for the new person

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Speaker 1: she had become, as well as the existential crisis of

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Speaker 1: success and the beauty of going back to being a beginner.

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Speaker 1: Justine also dishes up some juicy stuff that we all

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Speaker 1: love to hear about our editor life isn't just swarming

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Speaker 1: around and definitely isn't always easy. I was definitely a

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Speaker 1: tiny bit satisfied to hear that, and as a mom

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Speaker 1: of fort she is more than qualified to share some

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Speaker 1: words on priorities, balance, and humility. I hope you enjoy

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Speaker 1: this one as much as I did. Lovely Justine, welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: It is such a pleasure to have you, so much

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Speaker 1: so that we've already been talking for about twenty minutes

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Speaker 1: before we started recording, so you might know. I start

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Speaker 1: every episode by asking what the most down to earth

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Speaker 1: thing is about you, just as a little eyebreaker to

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Speaker 1: cut through the often glossy surface of our lives, particularly

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Speaker 1: for guests like yourself. I mean, you've had some incredibly

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Speaker 1: impressive titles in industries that literally involve glossy surfaces of

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Speaker 1: coveted magazines, so it's very easy to forget that you're

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Speaker 1: also a mom of four and a human being who

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Speaker 1: I'm sure has many, many relatable things behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: So what is something normal about you.

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Speaker 2: But I do love this question because as a mum

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Speaker 2: of for a working mom of for I've got nothing

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Speaker 2: that's not relatable about me.

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Speaker 3: I'm only relatable, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think that's one of the great things about parenting

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Speaker 2: is that it's this amazing leveler where it doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: if you're Beyonce or Kate Middleton or whoever you might be.

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Speaker 2: You know that they're at some point trading on a

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Speaker 2: lego and cursing, and they're you know, cleaning up someone's

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Speaker 2: vomit on their hands and knees, and you know, at

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Speaker 2: any time you.

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Speaker 3: Look at me, I've probably got knits. You know, there are.

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Speaker 2: Those things that you can't escape as a parent, and

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Speaker 2: you know, I think that, you know, I do like

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Speaker 2: that it's a great leveler in that way.

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Speaker 1: I definitely think this is a a much easier question

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Speaker 1: for parents to answer because there's always some kind of

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Speaker 1: bodily fluid or something that you can refer to, either

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Speaker 1: your own or someone else's, Like who could.

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Speaker 3: Say sometimes it's all just mixed in together.

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Speaker 1: Well, I still think it would be very hard for

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Speaker 1: many people to imagine with some of the incredible things

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Speaker 1: that you've done. But I love that, and I love

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Speaker 1: I think it's a great place to start. So the

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Speaker 1: first section is your wayta, which is pretty much tracing

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Speaker 1: back doing the exact same thing as that first question does.

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Speaker 1: We will obviously work to the wonderful things you've been

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Speaker 1: able to achieve. But I think people who walk in

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Speaker 1: on this chapter of your life, where you have all

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Speaker 1: that experience and inside and reflection under your belt, it's

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Speaker 1: easy to forget that once upon a time you were

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Speaker 1: a kid and you had no idea what you wanted

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Speaker 1: to do and what life would bring. And I think

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Speaker 1: tracing through all the pivotal moments of decisions that led

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Speaker 1: you to where you are is really reassuring for people

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Speaker 1: who maybe don't yet know where they want to end up,

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Speaker 1: or don't yet believe that their career path might be possible.

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Speaker 1: So tell us about young Justine. What were you like

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Speaker 1: as a child? What back then did you think you

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Speaker 1: wanted to be like? The job that you have now

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Speaker 1: probably didn't even exist then, So tell us about young you.

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Speaker 2: You're right, not the exact job, but I did want

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Speaker 2: to be an editor in chief from a very young age,

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Speaker 2: from pretty much from when I could read.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing I've.

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Speaker 2: Never wanted anything else. I didn't come from a family

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Speaker 2: with a lot of money. We weren't particularly connected or

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Speaker 2: anything like that. Lots of love, just not lots of cash.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that maybe, you know, the Americans

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Speaker 2: call it coming from a place of lack, and I

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Speaker 2: think that was a real, you know, driver for me.

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Speaker 2: So I was very aware of I guess I had

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Speaker 2: my eye on the prize from a very young age,

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Speaker 2: and that prize wasn't necessarily about money. It was just

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Speaker 2: about I guess, a bigger life in some way.

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Speaker 3: But who what was I like? I mean, I was

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Speaker 3: really shy.

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Speaker 2: I definitely wasn't a kind of a boss lady type. Wow,

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Speaker 2: not until I was maybe even in my twenties or

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Speaker 2: getting close to being.

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Speaker 3: An actual boss.

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Speaker 2: I don't think all I cared about were books and barbies.

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Speaker 2: That was that was my childhood.

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Speaker 3: And I guess now that makes sense as I sort

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Speaker 3: of merged them.

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Speaker 1: That actually really works out well for you.

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Speaker 3: There was some strategy there, I guess.

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Speaker 1: And you know, looking back at that time, I love

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Speaker 1: that you knew what an editor in chief was like.

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Speaker 1: I love that you knew that that was the role

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Speaker 1: that you kind of were heading for. What did you

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Speaker 1: think it took to get there? Like, I think it's

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Speaker 1: very reassuring to know that you don't have to be

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Speaker 1: born into a publishing family. You don't have to be

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Speaker 1: really well connected and start off with any particular background

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Speaker 1: to actually get into those really covered a positions. But again,

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Speaker 1: you have to start somewhere in the industry, and I

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Speaker 1: imagine that starts even from something like getting coffee for people.

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Speaker 1: So how did you get your first job? Like what

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Speaker 1: did you study journalism? Like what was the pathway?

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Speaker 2: No, So at that age, my mom used to buy me.

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Speaker 2: She my mom loves vintage and she loves a rummage,

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Speaker 2: and so she used to go to trash and treasure

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Speaker 2: and she would bring me back these ancient copies of

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Speaker 2: Dolly and Cleo, really old, out of date magazines. But

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Speaker 2: I would pore over them and I loved them. And

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Speaker 2: you know, in those days, the editor's letters were really intimate,

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Speaker 2: and they really kind of built this idea of these

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Speaker 2: teams of amazing women working together and creating something incredible

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Speaker 2: and having so much fun while while they did it.

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Speaker 2: And so that was always I was just like, I

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Speaker 2: want in I need to be part of that. So

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Speaker 2: that was I guess where I learned that there was

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Speaker 2: such a thing as an editor and all of these

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Speaker 2: interesting roles and jobs that I'd never heard about through

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Speaker 2: school or anywhere else. And so I started They would

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Speaker 2: talk about their work experience girls, and those editors letters,

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Speaker 2: and so I started doing the work experience really early.

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Speaker 3: And I would go back in all my.

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Speaker 2: Holidays and after school and just show up like in

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Speaker 2: my school uniform, ready to help out and do whatever

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Speaker 2: I had to do. And when you brought up, were

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Speaker 2: you making coffee?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: I remember my very first day of work experience. It

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Speaker 2: was at L Magazine when it existed before I relaunched it,

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Speaker 2: and it was the first place i'd ever first magazine

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Speaker 2: I'd ever shown up too. And they I'd walked into

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Speaker 2: the office and the fashion a system throwing these Chanel

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Speaker 2: bags at me, and she was like, take them to

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Speaker 2: the studio and guard.

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Speaker 3: Them with your life. And I'd never like, I'd never.

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Speaker 2: Been in a taxi by myself before, you know, without

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Speaker 2: my mom. So I jumped in a cabin I go

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Speaker 2: to the studio and I walked into this set and

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Speaker 2: it was El Macpherson being shot.

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Speaker 3: I was so magical.

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Speaker 2: It was just like this incredible moment of like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, this is it. I've arrived and I had

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Speaker 2: no reason to stay after I dropped off the bag.

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Speaker 3: So I was trying to make myself busy.

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Speaker 2: But I'd also never made a coffee because we were

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Speaker 2: a tea family, So I was too scared to make

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Speaker 2: a coffee for probably the first three years of my

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Speaker 2: work experience. Oh my gosh, I had to make myself

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Speaker 2: really handy. In other ways, I was, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was very, very good at work experience. I don't think

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Speaker 2: I've ever been as good as anything.

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Speaker 1: You peaked at work experienced student.

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Speaker 3: I really did.

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Speaker 1: And so was that how you then built up into

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Speaker 1: actually getting your first role and making your way into

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Speaker 1: the industry, you know, as an actual employee.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I was offered a job at Girlfriend magazine when

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Speaker 2: I was still in Each twelve. I hadn't quite finished

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Speaker 2: my hoc exams, and I had every intention of because

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Speaker 2: of going to UNI and studying journalism, but then this

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Speaker 2: came up, and I thought, I'll do it for a

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Speaker 2: little while and then you know, and then I'll go to.

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Speaker 3: UNI, and it sort of just never happened. Yeah's interfering

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Speaker 3: for thirty years.

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Speaker 1: Just waiting for that enrollment date to come back around again.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so I started.

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Speaker 2: I was seventeen when I started a girlfriend magazine as

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Speaker 2: editorial assistant, and it's all just flown on from there.

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Speaker 1: I guess, Oh my gosh, that's another really reassuring point

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Speaker 1: in your story. I think as well that often we

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Speaker 1: all in the educational system think, you know, have dreams

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Speaker 1: of going to UNI and what career paths different degrees

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Speaker 1: are going to lead to, But you don't always have

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Speaker 1: to take that pathway. I think people get very attached

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Speaker 1: to like I need a university degree, and of course

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Speaker 1: it's never a waste. It can open a lot of doors,

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Speaker 1: but you can also make it without it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you were offered the job before you even finish school,

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Speaker 1: so obviously what was you know, if you'd stuck rigidly

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Speaker 1: to the idea that you needed to go to UNI,

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Speaker 1: you might have missed the opportunity to just go for

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Speaker 1: what was actually available to you.

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Speaker 2: And look, I do think though we're talking about the

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Speaker 2: early nineties and it was such a less competitive time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I look now at some of our interns

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Speaker 2: and the amazing degrees they have an incredible experience that

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Speaker 2: they already have, and I think, oh god, you know

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Speaker 2: I would have not been able to get through it

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Speaker 2: at this time, just based on instinct and being.

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Speaker 3: A really really good work experience girl.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it was a different time, But I agree,

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Speaker 2: and I think you can sometimes, especially as women, we

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Speaker 2: can stick very closely to the path that we have

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Speaker 2: set out in our heads, you know, thinking okay, I

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Speaker 2: need to particularly in my industry. You know, maybe they

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Speaker 2: want to be in a certain type of magazine, or

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Speaker 2: they think that they can only start their career at

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Speaker 2: a certain job at a certain level. But I think

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Speaker 2: you really just have to take those opportunities as they

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Speaker 2: come and see do what feels right, kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: have an end goal in sight, but almost be let

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Speaker 2: the flow take you where it will.

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Speaker 1: I often say, I think it's I kind of actually

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Speaker 1: remember who the quotes attributed to. But you can always

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Speaker 1: stick to the goal, but be flexible about your methods.

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Speaker 1: Like the end goal where you want to end up

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Speaker 1: might be the same, but if you like stick too

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Speaker 1: rigidly to one particular pathway of getting there, you actually

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Speaker 1: preclude the possibility that that's not actually the right way,

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Speaker 1: like the one you think is the right way to

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Speaker 1: get there might not be the one that works out

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Speaker 1: to be the best for you, or you just preclude

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Speaker 1: the chance of anything better arriving on your doorstep.

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Speaker 2: And particularly with the world as it is now and

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Speaker 2: how fast it's changing. I mean, I've lived through an

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Speaker 2: industry that just went through some rapid change, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I think you really have to be open to the

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Speaker 2: idea that maybe maybe your goal doesn't even end up

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Speaker 2: being the same. You know, that was one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons why I ended up leaving l was because I

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Speaker 2: was so set on this idea of what my job

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Speaker 2: and my life was going to be for the next

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Speaker 2: however many years, and I suddenly turned around and went,

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Speaker 2: does it actually work for my life anymore? I get

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Speaker 2: plenty or read a couple of weeks and leaving my kids,

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Speaker 2: And you know, it was the goal of the fourteen

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Speaker 2: year old me, and probably that you know many many

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Speaker 2: ages after, but it wasn't necessarily the right goal for

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Speaker 2: the forty year old me.

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Speaker 3: And so I think these things need to stay.

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Speaker 1: Fluid, so so true. I think every chapter of your

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Speaker 1: life is going to require different things of you, and

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Speaker 1: you're going to require different things from life as well,

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Speaker 1: and I think one of the best things that you

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Speaker 1: can equip yourself for the future with is just to

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Speaker 1: be adaptable. You need to be willing to change so

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Speaker 1: that you can be fulfilled because what fulfilled you twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago is probably not going to fulfill you now

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Speaker 1: and who you've become over the last you know, a

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Speaker 1: couple of decades. And I think there's also that idea

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Speaker 1: that's really fascinating of sometimes you actually hit your goal

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Speaker 1: and it's wonderful at the time, but then I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have a bit of an existential

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Speaker 1: crisis of success where it's like, what do I do next?

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Speaker 1: I've never actually made any plans for after i achieved

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Speaker 1: the goal, and I've got many more us in the workforce,

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Speaker 1: so sort of what comes next? Then?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and I definitely went through that and actually

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Speaker 2: had to get a little bit of professional help to

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Speaker 2: help me kind of comprehend what came next, because you

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Speaker 2: do think, oh, we've got twenty more years in the workforce,

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Speaker 2: what do I contribute now? What do I strive for?

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Speaker 1: So before we dive into that, because I think that's

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Speaker 1: a really important thing, because I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people go through that, and maybe not even because they

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Speaker 1: hit their goal and then have a success crisis, but

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Speaker 1: also because that goal this year, in the craziness of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, might have been stripped away from them and

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Speaker 1: then they're still doing that same reevaluation process on the

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Speaker 1: journey to actually get there. What went through your mind?

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Speaker 1: I think we're so attuned to instant gratification that you

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Speaker 1: once you decide you want to be an editor, you

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Speaker 1: want to be the editor the next day. We don't

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Speaker 1: like having to take really small, patient steps to actually

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Speaker 1: build up to where we want to be. How did

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Speaker 1: you sit with each stage? And your first editor position

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Speaker 1: was as a deputy beauty editor and at the BBC also,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was really interesting, like your path is

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Speaker 1: going to take you in lots of different directions. What

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Speaker 1: was going through your mind to those stages. Was it

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Speaker 1: just like I'm biding my time till I can get

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Speaker 1: to the next bit, or were they all sort of

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Speaker 1: something that you aimed for.

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Speaker 2: No, I think I always wanted to be I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be in magazine's I don't know that I ever

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Speaker 2: articulated the goal to myself of editor in chief until

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Speaker 2: it was probably on the horizon, and I think that's probably.

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Speaker 3: Been the way for my career the whole time.

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Speaker 2: You know, when I first got that job, when I

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Speaker 2: was seventeen and in that girlfriend office, which is very interesting,

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Speaker 2: being a teenager working for a teen magazine at a

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Speaker 2: time when things were really powerful as well. It was

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Speaker 2: a wild time. But you know, I got there and

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Speaker 2: I didn't really know what I wanted to do. But

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Speaker 2: then I saw the beauty editor and I saw they

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Speaker 2: seem to live a really nice life, like a presence

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Speaker 2: all the time, and you know, this is very glamorous.

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Speaker 2: I came from, you know, straight out of high school.

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Speaker 2: It was like if you had three varieties of impulse,

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Speaker 2: I thought that you were killing it.

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Speaker 3: Like to see this person with like all the Bonnie

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Speaker 3: Bell so fancy, all.

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Speaker 2: The moisturizers, you know, I thought that was just so

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Speaker 2: and that sort of then quickly became my goal. And

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Speaker 2: then you know, I was abudi editor for a long

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Speaker 2: time before I really decided that I wanted to edit something.

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Speaker 2: But those each step kind of led to the next.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't necessarily looking at it as just stepping stones.

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Speaker 1: I think that's another really hard part that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people gravel with is when you do take lots

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Speaker 1: of different stepping stones, Like it's a really subtle balance

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Speaker 1: between enjoying what you have and appreciating that you once

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Speaker 1: wanted to be where you are, but then agitating for

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Speaker 1: change when you know it's the right time to move

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Speaker 1: to the next challenge, whether that's in the same magazine

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Speaker 1: or in a different magazine or a different area altogether.

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Speaker 1: How did you know when it might have been time

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Speaker 1: to move to something else? Like how do you think

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Speaker 1: we all should have multiple roles and chapters on our journey,

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Speaker 1: Like to each of those represents something that you learned

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Speaker 1: that you think now equips you the best.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I think that's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: And knowing when to move on and when is the

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Speaker 2: right time, I guess from a strategic point of view

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Speaker 2: to look at your career and think is this the

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Speaker 2: right time to move on? And when it emotionally matters

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Speaker 2: to you to move on. I think I've always kind

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Speaker 2: of worked with the ladder where I don't really like change,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, not in my professional life anyway. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've worked with the same group of women for fifteen years,

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Speaker 2: some of them like I do tend to like, I

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Speaker 2: like knowing what I'm doing, but I do, you know,

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Speaker 2: I will let myself sit with that.

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Speaker 3: Feeling of like, oh, it's probably time.

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Speaker 2: I'll let myself sit with that for quite a long

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Speaker 2: time until I wake up one day and I'm like.

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Speaker 3: I don't get out here. You know, the next thing

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Speaker 3: is I'm ready for the next thing.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that comes back back to that

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Speaker 2: openness again and being open minded to what comes next

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Speaker 2: and how you get there. And yeah, I think it's

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Speaker 2: important to follow your gut instead of maybe your head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think we do drown out what

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Speaker 1: our gut is telling us a lot of the time

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Speaker 1: and just go with our head and then sort of

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Speaker 1: wonder how we end up in this position where we're like,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't align. I'm not having a good time. I

401
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Speaker 1: had it. I make decisions that lead me here, I.

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Speaker 2: Think in that sense of like is this serving me?

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Speaker 2: Or do I need to move on from it? Yeah,

404
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Speaker 2: and asking yourself that question constantly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I feel like I'm skating over so much

406
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Speaker 1: detail of such an incredible career. But You've had so

407
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Speaker 1: many amazing positions that I'm like, oh, we can't dive

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Speaker 1: into all of them. It's just so wonderful. So I

409
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Speaker 1: mean girlfriend, BBC specific magazines, Marrick Claire until in twenty

410
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Speaker 1: thirteen you became the editor in chief of L Australia,

411
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Speaker 1: which gives me goosebumps to think that you started there

412
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Speaker 1: and you wanted to be as a young girl, you

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Speaker 1: wanted to be editor in chief, and then you actually

414
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Speaker 1: like very few people can say that their younger dreams

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Speaker 1: was something they actually achieved, Like often the dream changes,

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Speaker 1: but for you, you actually got there. So for those

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Speaker 1: who uninitiated in the editing and publishing industry, talk us

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Speaker 1: through what an editor in chief actually does. Like I

419
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Speaker 1: think we take that for granted, some of the bits

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Speaker 1: you enjoyed the most, and then take us through the

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Speaker 1: seizing of publication of L and that big pivot and

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Speaker 1: you're sort of experience of readjusting your metrics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I had been I'd been editor of a

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Speaker 2: magazine called Shop two Drop for about five years and

425
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Speaker 2: in that time there were rumors that magazine was really

426
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Speaker 2: successful and I loved working there. But there were rumors

427
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Speaker 2: that ELLE was coming to Australia and was being relaunched

428
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Speaker 2: in Australia, and I was just a woman on a mission,

429
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Speaker 2: like I was possessed. I would bore everyone silly talking

430
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Speaker 2: about it. I was doing constant pitching. I was throwing

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Speaker 2: myself at people and sending desperate emails.

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Speaker 3: And it went on for years.

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Speaker 2: So when I yes, I kind of achieved that dream,

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Speaker 2: I got it. But it was absolute blood, sweat and

435
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Speaker 2: tears to get there. So I think it was maybe

436
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Speaker 2: a year until the magazine was confirmed, and then it

437
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Speaker 2: took a really long time for them to confirm me

438
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Speaker 2: as the editor.

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Speaker 3: So it was a real process and it was though.

440
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: You know, Lle was not only the magazine that I

441
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,919
Speaker 2: had started, you know that it opened my eyes to

442
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 2: this industry, but it was also my favorite magazine. The

443
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 2: US and the UK versions were just you know, they

444
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 2: were my absolute favorite magazines and the magazines that I

445
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 2: looked for for inspiration all the time. And I had

446
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 2: such a clear idea in my head of what magazine

447
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 2: I wanted to bring, what version of that magazine I

448
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 2: wanted to bring to Australia, and why it was missing

449
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: in our market.

450
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 3: You know, I wanted something that was going to be.

451
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 2: Very first for someone who loved fashion but also loved

452
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 2: a lot of other things I wanted to learn about,

453
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,360
Speaker 2: you know, what books she should read, and who wanted

454
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: to who was interested in politics, and all the things

455
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 2: that my friends and I talked about it at a

456
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 2: great dinner party. But I never really saw in a

457
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 2: magazine form. I didn't see all of that packaged up together,

458
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 2: and so I was really excited to bring that magazine

459
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 2: to the Australian market when I eventually got the job.

460
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 2: You know, I had it already been an editor for

461
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,640
Speaker 2: quite a few years, but it's a whole different level

462
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 2: when you're working on one of those big international titles,

463
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: and there are some wonderful things about it, and of

464
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: course it's incredibly challenging. And I think people think that

465
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 2: editors walk around and you're like in funny face, you know, think.

466
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 3: Pink and.

467
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 2: Moments of these epiphanies of what color is going to

468
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 2: be in season or what shape people should be wearing,

469
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 2: And obviously it's very little of that, and there's lots

470
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 2: of it that is just any normal, you know, management

471
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,360
Speaker 2: position in a business. You're running a business, you're looking

472
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: after P and L's, and you're having staffing issues and

473
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 2: you're dealing with you know, management coming down, complaining about

474
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,719
Speaker 2: your career, expenditure and all this really un sexy stuff.

475
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 2: And then there's the other side of it, which is

476
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,919
Speaker 2: a lot of the time, which is you know, flying

477
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 2: around the world going to fashion shows and sitting front

478
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 2: row and witnessing these incredible spectacles of creativity. You know,

479
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: you obviously work with incredibly talented people, And I don't know,

480
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 2: there are so many parts of it that for a

481
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 2: girl who grew up the way I did, who could

482
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: only dream of that kind of thing, where I would,

483
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,919
Speaker 2: quite honestly like I'd be all cool, come and collected

484
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 2: on the outside, but inside, you know.

485
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 3: My was hanging out as like a gog. And it's a.

486
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: Really it's a very special, rarefied existence. It's a joy

487
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 2: in many ways, balances out all of the you know,

488
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 2: the tediousness that comes with any standard pen pushing management job.

489
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a very big part that doesn't

490
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 1: get as much airtime. We definitely think of as.

491
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 3: So who cares.

492
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: We think of you guys as swaning between Paris and

493
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: London and Milan.

494
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 3: And there is much much swaning.

495
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 2: And I was on a plane to Europe about once

496
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: every six weeks, you know, and you'd often go because

497
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 2: I had kids. So say I had to go to

498
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 2: an event in New York, so I'd you know, fly

499
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: to New York. I'd be there on the ground for

500
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: twenty four hours, and then I'd fly home, you know,

501
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 2: just do what I had to do and then come back.

502
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: So I was constantly in this state of complete mental

503
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: and physical exhaustion that was sometimes hard to justify. And

504
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: I think, you know, with where the world is sitting now,

505
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 2: it's it feels like it's of a complete other time.

506
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 2: It's really hard to imagine how we even justified that

507
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: sort of travel and extravagance. But that's the job. That

508
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 2: was the joy of the job, and I would never

509
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: take that for granted. It was very special.

510
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, I can only imagine some of

511
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: the experiences that you walked into, just like how am

512
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: I here? Like what even is this?

513
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: Okay? Next week I'm flying to Morocco for the birthday

514
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 3: of a necklace. And it becomes just second nature and

515
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 3: very very.

516
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 2: Normal, And you know, you become really close to the people,

517
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: you know, your colleagues, your other editors, and you would

518
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: travel together and become amost like a little family and yeah,

519
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 2: so lovely in so many ways.

520
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: So I think one of the I mean, the world

521
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: is changing so rapidly, as we've discussed, but the publishing world,

522
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 1: of all industries is changing so dramatically. The landscape is

523
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: constantly reinventing itself, and everyone in it has to sort

524
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: of evolve. Like, I think the change that accompanied the

525
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: first decade of your career is probably nothing to what

526
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: now happens a year to year or even month to month.

527
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: So talk us through the sort of ceasing of publication

528
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: of l and when you were outgoing as an editor,

529
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: and how you feel now about the industry and how

530
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: people can keep up, because something else I wanted to

531
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: ask you about without talking about the change is it's

532
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: very difficult in an industry like that to balance like

533
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: showing your pure skill in the role and managing likability

534
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: with also going for roles and being that person who's

535
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: like irrepressible and just like you know, but also still

536
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: maintain like it's so hard to balance all the different

537
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: parts of who you need to be to get roles

538
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: like that. So for someone who's aspiring to have a

539
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: career like yours, but who is also entering this crazy

540
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: world of publishing and who since you have also moved

541
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: on to a new chapter as well, and.

542
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 3: The same ye think of the sciences.

543
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, what would you say to people approaching the industry now?

544
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: And what would you say reflecting on now you having

545
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: p it into a whole new role.

546
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's very easy to get caught

547
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: up in an idea of what you should be, and

548
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 2: you know, particularly with an end goal like an editor

549
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: in chief role or a CEO role.

550
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 3: Whatever it is that you're considering.

551
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: I think, you know, it's really easy to think of,

552
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 2: you know, who do I need to be to achieve that?

553
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 2: And one thing that I really learned and going for

554
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: the L role, you know I had I had so

555
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: much kind of self doubt because who I was as

556
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: an editor was very different to the existing editors of

557
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: fashion magazines in this country at that time. You know,

558
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: I was always very open, for example, with my readers

559
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: and very intimate with editors letters. And you know, I

560
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 2: just am who I am. I can't really hide who

561
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: I am. It's all out there for anyone to see.

562
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't hope I needed to be a

563
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: little bit fancier or a little bit you know, a

564
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 2: little bit chillier, and you know, I didn't struggle with it,

565
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: but it definitely was something that played on my mind

566
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: as I went into the role, and I realized, you know,

567
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: the best way that I could do that was just

568
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: to do it my own way. And you can't really,

569
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: you can't get away with pretending to be someone in

570
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 2: not for a very long time.

571
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: So I learned quite early on that it was best.

572
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 2: To forge my own path and be my own person

573
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: in that sense than to try to put on any

574
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: kind of role or play the part that I thought

575
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: needed to be played for that. But then I guess,

576
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 2: in terms of what's happened to the industry, I mean, god,

577
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: it's so devastating to think that, you know, so many

578
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: great magazines have closed in Australia in such a short

579
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 2: amount of time.

580
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: And you know, while I do think that some of.

581
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: That consolidation was probably necessary, I don't know that it

582
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: needed to be as extreme or I guess, as intense

583
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: as it was. You know, I think a lot of

584
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 2: that came down to mismanagement, which has been of course

585
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 2: very well documented. But that doesn't change the fact that

586
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: you know, it's such a sad thing for all of

587
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 2: those incredibly talented people who dedicated their lives to an industry.

588
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 2: And then, as you were saying, I sort of now

589
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: left thinking, you know what comes next in many cases,

590
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 2: And as I said, I'd been mulling over my exit

591
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 2: from L for a little while, and then when I

592
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: was offered the role that I'm currently in editing the

593
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: David Jones fashion magazine for an agency. So I worked

594
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: for an agency Put Meeting Right, who were just an

595
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: exceptional content agency, and you know, when that offer came

596
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 2: through to me, it was really hard to ignore some

597
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: of the stats. You know, not that I thought that

598
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: we would close it L anytime soon when I was there,

599
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 2: but the numbers that were shown to me in terms

600
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: of this new way of distributing a fashion magazine through

601
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 2: a retailer and through their direct mail, you know, the

602
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: numbers were so astounding. The numbers in terms of my

603
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: budgets and you know, what I could create were amazing

604
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 2: because that those budgets had been just slashed over the

605
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: years and years and years, so.

606
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: That it was becoming harder and harder to keep up

607
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: the quality.

608
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: And so it very much felt to me like branded

609
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 2: content was the future or that, you know, it was

610
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: a way for me to do what I knew I

611
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: was good at, but a in a brand new world.

612
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: And so that was really like a bit of a

613
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: gift from the God's in that sense. It wasn't a

614
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 2: place that I ever expected that I would go to.

615
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: I genuinely thought, right, I've got this job at L.

616
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: I love it, I love the brand, I love the title,

617
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 2: I love the L family internationally. I'm just going to

618
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 2: be here till I die. I'm just going to one

619
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: of those old people that they wheel in, and I'll

620
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 2: have an office here and I'll make my editorial decisions.

621
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 3: And then maybe at some.

622
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: Point I'll retire to the Byron hinterland and have an

623
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 2: artisanal cordial business or something. But I never imagined that

624
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: I would have to enter a new part of the

625
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: industry and learn completing new things. But the opportunity presented itself,

626
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: and actually it was the perfect opportunity.

627
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: What has turned out to be the exact right time.

628
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, the universe has such interesting ways, the

629
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: way it will extract you from something you never thought

630
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: that you necessarily even wanted to leave. But that I

631
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: often say, beautiful new beginnings are often disguised as painful ending.

632
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: So while it was a tumultuous and very very sad

633
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: time for many in the publishing industry, the way that

634
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: they have had to reinvent themselves and reapply their skills

635
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: and maybe realize perhaps that they have become complacent because

636
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: they had worked so hard to then just occupy this

637
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: role that might you know, they thought was like a

638
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: forever role. There are many, many different but new opportunities

639
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: that you can still go after, even if they might

640
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: not be the ones you thought you were heading towards.

641
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think there's skills that so many of

642
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: the people who you know, have only recently kind of

643
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: lost their jobs and are trying to find their new way.

644
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: Those skills are so easily applied to the new world.

645
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, it can be traumatic that transition, but

646
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: I think that even even in this business, I have

647
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: picked up so many of the people who've lost their

648
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: jobs because they're so talented and writing is writing and

649
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: storytelling and storytelling whatever that takes. If you're good at that,

650
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: you know you can apply it to this brand new

651
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: world that we're in.

652
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally a quick word from today's partner in yay

653
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: one of my longtime favorite shopping destinations, David Jones. I'm

654
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: so grateful that David Jones have not only made today's

655
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: episode possible, but are also bringing us the best in skinnovation.

656
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: It's been absolute madness this year with so much uncertainty,

657
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: but I found so much comfort in the little things

658
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: that they can control. It's no secret to anyone that

659
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: I've been using the time to ramp up my previously

660
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: very basic skincare regime, and the online Skinnovation Hub has

661
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: been a great new resource for all my skincare needs,

662
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: from learning about ingredients, tips and tricks from industry experts,

663
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: and even discovering new products. Something I value so highly

664
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: in a shopping experience is having access to a breadth

665
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: of different brands, but all in the one place, and

666
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: David Jones offers everything from exclusive luxury must have like

667
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: sk two or Sisley Paris, to mindful trailblazers like one

668
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: of my absolute favorites, Grown Alchemist, whose founder has actually

669
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: joined us in a previous episode, With a depth of

670
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: expertise and wisdom offered through instore and online consultants. The

671
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: sometimes intimidating skincare landscape becomes an education, empowering and fun experience.

672
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: They've also just launched their online Skincare Finder to help

673
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: you discover your personalized skincare match. Simply fill out an

674
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: online questionnaire and receive a bespoke skincare routine with tailored

675
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: product recommendations. And I can't believe I only just found

676
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: out that they offer in store beauty services in dedicated

677
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: beauty rooms, with the cost of many skin treatments being

678
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: redeemable on the purchase of product Lamaire Facial. Anyone head

679
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: to the Skinnovation Hub to find out more. David Jones

680
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: dot com slash skinnovation. So tell us about your brand

681
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: new role in this brand new world. It is such

682
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: an exciting pivot, and I've loved watching how you have,

683
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: Like going in agency side is like such a new experience,

684
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: and it's so exciting to see you go back to

685
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: being a beginner and be willing to take that whole

686
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: new step from something that is incredibly like not comfortable,

687
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: but it is something that you've been working towards for

688
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: a very long time. What was that like?

689
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: It was awful?

690
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: You know, you think you've got it made. You've built

691
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: the skills for one thing for your whole life, and

692
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: then it's like, oh my god, I'm thrown into this.

693
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: I'm a newbie again.

694
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you know, in my first couple of weeks,

695
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: you know, I kept coming home to my husband, oh

696
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: my god.

697
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: What have I done?

698
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: And I've been you know, googling phrases under the table

699
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: and terminology under the table in meetings.

700
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: I had no idea what they meant. And he'd be like,

701
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: you know.

702
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: You've talked a lot about comfort zones over the years,

703
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: but I don't think you've ever really left yours. This

704
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: is what this means, Like this is this is the

705
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: literal definition of leaving your comfort zone. Then I'd be like,

706
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: I know, but my old comfort zone came with free handbags.

707
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is that I've been in this

708
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 2: world for two years now, and it was that challenging transition.

709
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: What's really interesting, the fascinating thing to come out of

710
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: it is, you know, I think wild comfort is a

711
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: lovely thing, and I am the first to be you know,

712
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: I wasn't someone who necessarily wanted to be pushed out

713
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: of my comfort zone.

714
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 3: Put it that way.

715
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: I look at the work that I do now, and

716
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: it's ideated on such a deeper level. So you know,

717
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: this is corporate. So in traditional magazines, I could just

718
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: come up with a round, an idea and the way

719
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: to work, and then I'd go into the office and

720
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: I'd tell a few people and they'd all make it happen.

721
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: Just you know, it was very easy to have these

722
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: kind of big ideas, whereas now it's corporate. So when

723
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: I have an idea, or we theme a season for

724
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: David Jones, it's very much based on data and on insights,

725
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: and that's put together very carefully, and then we look

726
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: at how we will play that across not just Jones,

727
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: which launches the season and is a big part of

728
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: what I do, but actually.

729
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: Not that big.

730
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: It's just part of what I do, and then we

731
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: see how that plays out across Mother's Day or Father's

732
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 2: Day or Valentine's Day or a sale period. And so

733
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: it's really interesting to, I guess, watch something take on

734
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: a life that goes so far beyond me and to

735
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: be able to think about on that deeper level. And

736
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: I took a lot of people with me when I left.

737
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: When I left el So, a lot of the staff

738
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 2: came and a lot of our staff now have come

739
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 2: from traditional magazines as well, and to watch them develop

740
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 2: and myself, I'm really proud of how we've all developed

741
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: in terms of how we think about things and how

742
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: we've transitioned because it is a very different process.

743
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: It's absolutely stunning. I was looking through the last issue

744
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: and it's so cool that as you have been reinventing yourself,

745
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: the business has also been reinventing it's aesthetic and the

746
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: way it communicates with customers. Still maintaining a really strong

747
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: range of heritage brands across all areas, but adding such

748
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: an innovative flare to it now, which is so exciting

749
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: to watch because it is such a such a landmark

750
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: brand in Australia. To watch it grow and not fall

751
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: into irrelevance has been so wonderful. And the campaigns that

752
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: you've been able to come up with as well, bringing

753
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: your own rich history in the beauty industry to those

754
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: has just been incredible.

755
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: Oh.

756
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 3: I love hearing that, you know.

757
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: I mean, that's one of the things that I do

758
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: love about David Jones. That for me, particularly in a

759
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 2: world as tumultuous as the one we're living in now.

760
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 2: You know, it's a safe space. It's been there for

761
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 2: such a long time. You walk in, you know, it

762
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 2: makes you feel happy to be in there.

763
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 3: You know.

764
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: I love that they're being brave enough to do some

765
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 2: of these, you know, really interesting to run these really

766
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 2: interesting campaigns and lots of new platforms, and it is

767
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: an exciting place to be right now.

768
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I definitely want to dive a little bit

769
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: deeper as well into the self doubt and comparison that

770
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: we've touched on. But before we do that, I want

771
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about the Skinnovation campaign because

772
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: we in Victoria are still in stage four and one

773
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: of the biggest things I've been doing this year just

774
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: to get a little bit of comfort and familiarity and

775
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: also just to pass the time, has been to take

776
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: control of the one part of my life that I

777
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: can actually still control, which is my beauty regime. And

778
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: I've been a bit of a beauty nube for most

779
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: of my life, but I've spent a lot of time

780
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: catching up using all this time at home while everything

781
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: else is in flux. So tell us about this particular

782
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: campaign and why, coming from the beauty space it's such

783
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: an exciting thing for you.

784
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I'm the same as you. I mean,

785
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: your skin looks glorious.

786
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: By the way, Oh thank you. I knew I was

787
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: seeing you, so I was like, oh my god.

788
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: But I'm a little bit the same. Even though I

789
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: was a beauty editor forever, I was terrible. It was

790
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 3: like a classic case of do as I say, not

791
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 3: as I do. So I never washed my face, I

792
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 3: never I never finished a product. I'd always like, try

793
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 3: the shiny new thing, and then I'd move on a

794
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 3: week later.

795
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: So nothing ever had a chance to really work on me.

796
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: And it's taken this pandemic to really make me care

797
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: about my skin the way it needs to. It's probably

798
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 2: come at exactly the right age in my life.

799
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: But yees.

800
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 2: So I don't know if it's just because I've got

801
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 2: more time at home to look in the mirror or

802
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: just more time in general, but I'm exactly the same.

803
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: And it's really kind of brought on this sense of

804
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 2: taking control of my skin, really kind of following things

805
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: through and putting the care in that it needs. And

806
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 2: Skin as a campaign, which is the new skincare campaign

807
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: from DJAS that has been a real opportunity for us

808
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: to take the idea behind. It is where knowledge meets power,

809
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 2: So it's really about arming yourself with all the information

810
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 2: that you need to be able to create real change

811
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 2: in your skin.

812
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think it's really interesting.

813
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: We've been able to talk to some great experts and

814
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: really sing about some wonderful products. And you mentioned before

815
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 2: how DJs has this great mix of heritage brands like Lamaire,

816
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: which I love, obsessed with it have been for many

817
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 2: many years with new brands and exciting new technologies, and

818
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 2: there are so many great products there that I'm discovering

819
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: all the time. It's just a treasure trove. I think

820
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 2: that Beauty Hall is like that. It really is my

821
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: happy place.

822
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think also for someone who I kind

823
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: of find beauty a little bit intimidating because I don't

824
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: come at it from such a place of understanding, which

825
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: means that being somewhere where you can actually accessritage brands

826
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: and like game changing newcomers all at once to address

827
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: them for different things with people who will actually explain

828
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: to you what the difference is. It's so much more

829
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: accessible than going into a store that's just that brand

830
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: and only looking at what they do, like, I love

831
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: that variety. What are your top five? Like, I want

832
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: to pick your brain from it and now, experts perspective,

833
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: what we've got you? What are your top five favorite

834
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: products right now that we all need to know about.

835
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 3: Oh, that's so tricky. Five. I've only just learned creating

836
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 3: this new Korean skincare routine for myself with many, many,

837
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: many products.

838
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: I know it's a minimum nine layers on average that

839
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: Korean ladies put on their face. I'm like, wow, you.

840
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: Know what I'm really loving at the moment, and I

841
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: don't think this would just be me is I'm loving

842
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: an oil because it is. I'm not in Melbourne, I'm

843
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 2: not in Stage four, but it is a traumatic time

844
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 2: and there's so much change happening, and I just really

845
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: want to treat myself. I think that element of self

846
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: care coming through in skincare really important. Of course I

847
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: want technology and amazing the ingredients, but I also think

848
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: that that sensorial experiential element of skincare adds a lot

849
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: and can make a real difference. So I'm obsessed with oils.

850
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: Which oil of Sisle make this beautiful black rose facial

851
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 2: oil that is just like liquid gold. It's incredible. Obsessed

852
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: with that should merge your beautiful cleansing oil. I mean,

853
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 2: I just feel like sometimes by the end of my

854
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: skin care retine, I could pop myself in the oven

855
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: and have a good roasting. I'm so sad, but I

856
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: love taking a cleansing oil and taking a couple of

857
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: pumps of it and then it's not a new product,

858
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 2: but Dermalogica do a microfolian. It's like a really fine

859
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: expoliant that you can use every day, and I put

860
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 2: a little bit of it in the oil and make.

861
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: It into like a paste.

862
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: You would normally mix it with water and then massage

863
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: that in and that kind of gives me this really

864
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: nourishing cleanse.

865
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 3: I'm not such a.

866
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 2: Fan of a lot of cleansing because I think it

867
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: can really strip your skin and can create a bit

868
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: of trauma. And so the idea that I'm nourishing my

869
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: skin while I'm cleansing it really appeals to me.

870
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 3: So I love that. Clarence also their famous.

871
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: Tonic Body oil, which I'm loving and I actually just

872
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 2: did it. I had a chat with Eleanor Pendleton, who

873
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: is a wonderful by expert and she was saying that

874
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 2: she uses hers in the shower, and I think that's

875
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: really a fabulous like you know, I've tried it a

876
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: few times now, and when you put it on the

877
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 2: sent of all those essential oils and plant extracts just

878
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 2: kind of you know, it hits you with the steam

879
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 2: and it's again turning. I guess what could be just

880
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: a practical application of a product into something that feels

881
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: much more sensorial and special, like a little bit of

882
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: a day spar in your morning. I'm very obsessed at

883
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 2: the moment with this brand called Uma Again.

884
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 3: I'm still on oils.

885
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 2: Burma is a beautiful oil brand from a family in

886
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 2: India who have been creating They've been creating the essential

887
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 2: olds or farming the essential oils for the Indian royal

888
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: family and lots of really famous beauty brands for many

889
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: many years. It's this real farm to bottle concept that

890
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: is very luxurious and gorgeous.

891
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 3: They are my favorites.

892
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if that was five, but that's what

893
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: I love right now, just like the big oil slather.

894
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: No, oh my gosh, I love that. I love the

895
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 1: idea of an oil slather.

896
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 2: And one thing the other thing that I've been really

897
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 2: into recently, which I think is this whole idea that

898
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: you were touching on old and new, is this idea

899
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: of the ingestible beauty, you know, and supplements. So I've

900
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 2: been using the VT Glow anti g ox and that

901
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: is just a little sachet in a glass of water,

902
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 2: So I'm making sure I get my hydration hit in

903
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: the morning too. And I love that idea that you're

904
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: working on your skin health from the inside and the outside.

905
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: And I think that feels like a really modern take

906
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: on skincare as well, and almost.

907
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 3: Like you know, the extra step.

908
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: We have our fourteen skincare steps, and then we have

909
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: additional inside skincare step, which I think is very very

910
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 2: important and I'm really noticing a difference from that.

911
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: Actually.

912
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: I think that's such a big part of the essence

913
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: of skin ovation, is the idea that you do look

914
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: at beauty from all different angles, like it's not just

915
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: topical and it's not just aesthetic. It's like inner beauty

916
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: as well, which I'm excited is becoming a bigger part

917
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: of the industry than it once was.

918
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, for someone who's really lazy like me,

919
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: I like that, I've done that, and it's like my

920
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: one good deed of the morning for myself.

921
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 3: And I can go on and eat whatever.

922
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: You know, crap I find in the fridge, like no,

923
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: but I've ingested my collagen, so I'm good.

924
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do that with like a broccoli. I'm like, oh,

925
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: I one piece of broccoli. So I have ticked my

926
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: health for this week eight. So we've kind of touched

927
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: on a few of the challenges along the way. But

928
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: I also have a whole section called Nata, which is

929
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: on pretty much the things that say nay to your joy,

930
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: that get in the way of your joy or of

931
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: your ultimate you know, just living your best life. And

932
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: I think these don't necessarily get as much airtime, but

933
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: there again the part that really humanizes your experience and

934
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: also reassures others listening that none of us are alone

935
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: in the things that we face along the way. It

936
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 1: can look really shiny and it can look smoother than

937
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: it ever is, but there's always that self doubt. There's comparison,

938
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: there's burnout and exhaustion, there's juggling the priorities as a

939
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: mother versus your priorities professionally, and there's endless over connection

940
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: as well. In a digital landscape that requires us to

941
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: be online all the time for our jobs, there's just

942
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: so many layers of stuff that makes it hard to

943
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: manage on our pathways. And I think for someone as

944
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: incredibly successful as you, but also someone who has four kids,

945
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't know how you do it. So what have

946
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: been some of your biggest challenges along the way and

947
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: how how have you faced them?

948
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 3: Well, I mean we touched on this a little bit earlier.

949
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: I think that transitioning out of you know what was

950
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: such a comfort zone for myself. You know, it was

951
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: really interesting to be an old dog learning new tricks

952
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: and more challenging than I think than I thought it

953
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: was going to be the really challenging part for me,

954
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: which I actually find really you know, it's difficult to

955
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: admit to this, I think, but I was in that

956
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 2: job and I would look at other people in our

957
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: industry and I'd be like, you know, oh god, you know,

958
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 2: everyone's so caught up in it. And I've got these

959
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: kids at home and it keeps me real and I've

960
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 2: got my real friends and you know, and I didn't

961
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 2: think that I was so attached to this idea of

962
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: the title and the status of it all. And then

963
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 2: I left, and I really fucking was and I didn't

964
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,919
Speaker 2: even realize how much it affected me. And so people

965
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 2: would say to me, you know, what do you do

966
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: for work, And I'd be like.

967
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 3: Well, I used to be the editor of L and

968
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 3: it was really weird.

969
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: And I did really struggle with this idea of like

970
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: kind of losing what was such.

971
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 3: A huge part of my identity.

972
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: And as much as you know, I love what I

973
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: do now and I love the work that we do,

974
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: but it's not my identity or I work for an

975
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 2: agency and I produced a product for corporation, and so

976
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 2: it's a very different a different level of satisfaction. You

977
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: have to get your satisfaction from a different place. And so,

978
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: you know, that was something that I really struggled with

979
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 2: for a long time, was letting go of that part

980
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: of my identity. And as I as I said in

981
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: the end, I ended up a really wonderful career coach

982
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: just to talk me through that. And she works with

983
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: a lot of CEOs who retire and then sort of

984
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: you know, say what next, Or athletes who retire and

985
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: then realize they're only thirty five and they have no.

986
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 3: Idea what to do with the rest of their lives.

987
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: And she was really wonderful at giving me a sense

988
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: of momentum past having achieved that one big goal that

989
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: I'd had my whole life, and then and then looking

990
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: towards the future because you know, it is still a

991
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 2: long time, it's still a huge part of my.

992
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 3: Career is left to come. And so, you know, she

993
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: was wonderful at that.

994
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 2: So I think it, you know, it never hurts to

995
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: pull in some professional help when you're struggling, I mean

996
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 2: social comparison. I think, you know, it's a big one.

997
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 2: I find it so interesting that even like every woman

998
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: I know goes through an element of anxiety when it

999
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: comes to that sort of thing.

1000
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 3: I wish Instagram would just, you know, implode in some

1001
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 3: ways that we didn't have to deal with it.

1002
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 2: It makes me wonder, my God, if we struggle with

1003
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: it and we know how it works, and we're in

1004
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 2: the industry and we're grown women who know who we are,

1005
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 2: imagine how that must affect teenagers today, my teenage sons,

1006
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 2: and I'm often very happy that they're not girls and

1007
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 2: they're not you know, it's a relief to think that

1008
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: boys are much simpler creatures and they don't look at

1009
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 2: their world in that way. But you know, I think

1010
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 2: that's it's also been one of the great things about

1011
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 2: the pandemic is that no one's doing anything very interesting,

1012
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: so you've got so much less he and you know,

1013
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 2: I'm also quite happy through this period because I think

1014
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 2: inside I've always been a bit of an introvert, and

1015
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: I never let her fly. I never let that in

1016
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 2: an introvert come out. So it's really enabled me to

1017
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: kind of be the true me and not leave my

1018
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: living room.

1019
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: I'm the same. It's just let me be the hermit

1020
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: that I've always wanted to be. I think it's so

1021
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: interesting what you said about identity and attachment, because I

1022
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: think that's something so many of us face, and a

1023
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: lot of us have a critical point where you sort

1024
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: of break what you had to reform what you actually want,

1025
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: and a lot of that involves letting go of what

1026
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: you thought success was, or stopping caring about success so

1027
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: much and focusing more on fulfillment. How did your metrics

1028
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 1: for measuring yourself change around that time, Like, do you

1029
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: think it's hard when you are successful and you do

1030
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 1: hit the goals of what you thought was success, because

1031
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: then what's next. And that's why I don't aim for

1032
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: success anymore, because it's so static. It doesn't evolve, and

1033
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't there's nothing after the destination. It's not the

1034
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: process that you're enjoying. So how does your how did

1035
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: your relationship with success kind of change?

1036
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 2: I think I became much more holistic in my thinking

1037
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 2: about success and fulfillment. So, you know, i'd been relatively

1038
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: tunnel visioned when it came to career, and I'd always

1039
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 2: you know, obviously I had a family, but you know,

1040
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 2: I was very focused on my career and it was

1041
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 2: probably the biggest part of my identity. And then and

1042
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 2: then when this happened around at the same time, I

1043
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 2: had a lot of personal change. Divorce, I remarried, I

1044
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: had another baby, and I think my I started to

1045
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 2: get a lot more of my fulfillment from other places.

1046
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 3: It wasn't necessarily coming from work anymore.

1047
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: And I think it's not a bad thing to think

1048
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: of work sometimes as transactional. You know, we don't have

1049
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,959
Speaker 2: to I look at people who who turn a successful,

1050
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 2: fulfilling hobby into a career sometimes and I think you've

1051
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: now lost this little thing that you had that was

1052
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 2: just joy, and it now becomes the thing that has to,

1053
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: you know, sustain you. And that's I think, not always

1054
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: a good thing. And it's nice to be able to

1055
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 2: think of work as something. Yes, you'll get your satisfaction

1056
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 2: from there. You want to be challenged, you want to

1057
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: love what you do, you want to be passionate about it,

1058
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to be.

1059
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: You be all.

1060
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 3: You know you'll be all and end all.

1061
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 2: And for me, I definitely started to think of how

1062
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 2: I was feeling fulfilled and happy at.

1063
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 3: Home and that stated me a lot more.

1064
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 2: Than it had in the past, and those two things

1065
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 2: kind of combined, so that was sort of where I

1066
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: got to with that.

1067
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 3: So I guess it worked out quite well.

1068
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,959
Speaker 1: And that leads so beautifully to the final section, which

1069
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: is your plata. And that is the exact idea that

1070
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: we all need to have something that's sort of sectioned off,

1071
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: that is just for joy, that isn't necessarily something we

1072
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: turn into an achieve activity that we make our livelihood,

1073
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: and that is just allowed to be something we do,

1074
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: whether we're good at it or not, and whether it,

1075
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, whether we get better at it or not,

1076
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 1: whether there's any sense of progress or not. But before

1077
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: we do jump into that, I just have one more question,

1078
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 1: which I think you would probably have a lot that's

1079
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 1: valuable to people listening, is on that idea of balance.

1080
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: Some people don't even.

1081
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 3: Ascribe to it, familiar with the word.

1082
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: I think the plata section is sort of part of

1083
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: that whole concept of balance, whether you even try and

1084
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: achieve balance, what that looks like. I think so many

1085
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: mums and parents generally have a really hard time letting

1086
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: themselves off hook for just looking after themselves and not

1087
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: needing to self sacrifice to feel like they're doing a

1088
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: good job at parenting and their job, and like there's

1089
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: just a it's a mess of like finding what's the

1090
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: right right away of juggling at all. So I mean,

1091
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: how do you navigate that?

1092
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, it can be it's obviously a

1093
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: challenge for so many women in particular.

1094
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 3: I think this idea of balance, but particularly around guilt.

1095
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 2: So you might have balance, but always in the back

1096
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: of your head there's this idea that you know you

1097
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: should be doing something else, so you don't feel balanced inside.

1098
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 2: Even if you've managed to kind of navigate the time,

1099
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 2: and I think I was like that for a long time.

1100
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: You know, I was working three or four days, and

1101
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 2: I would feel like I had these you know, I

1102
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: had a day at home and I could clean my

1103
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 2: house and I could organize my life and you know,

1104
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: go and get a wax whatever I needed to do.

1105
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 3: So like it sort of.

1106
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 2: Looked like I had balance, but inside I was just

1107
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: constantly churned up about the guilt and what I wasn't

1108
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 2: doing at that time and what I was not doing

1109
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: good enough. And then, you know, I think the only

1110
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: way to really achieve any kind of balance, and I

1111
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: don't I don't really subscribe to the word, but is

1112
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: to just start letting stuff go, like not overthinking it.

1113
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 2: You know, I, for example, hate playing with my kids.

1114
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 3: I love my kids, I love reading to them, I

1115
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 3: love doing stuff with them, but I can't. I don't

1116
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 3: get on the floor and I don't play. And I

1117
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: used to feel guilty.

1118
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 2: About that, and now I'm just like, that's what Hato's for,

1119
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: that's what my husband's for. And I bring something else

1120
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 2: to their life at a different time. And so, you know,

1121
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 2: I think it's so much of a sense of balance,

1122
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 2: not not balance, but a sense of balance is just

1123
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 2: by cutting ourselves a break and being a bit more

1124
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 2: in the moment and doing whatever your gut feels is right,

1125
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: not sort of thinking.

1126
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: I can hear that they're playing right now, God.

1127
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: Knows what they're doing upstairs. I'm scared of what I'm

1128
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: going to go back to. Really kind of you know,

1129
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 2: whatever gets you through the night, which has been my

1130
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 2: motto I think ever since I became a parent. You know,

1131
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 2: I don't think we have to overthink how many whole

1132
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 2: foods we've fit our kids. Like, if you've got good

1133
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: intentions and you're trying, then you're already most of the

1134
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: way there.

1135
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really nice that you even say

1136
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: that you don't like the playing part, because I think

1137
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: moms just have this really strong attachment to what everyone

1138
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: thinks what you should do as a mom, Like there's

1139
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: this idea of good parenting and like all the things

1140
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: you need to do, but if your husband plays with them,

1141
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: you can do all the other things. Like you don't

1142
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: need to be everything at all times.

1143
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 2: Also, the idea of playing with our children is a

1144
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: completely modern concept.

1145
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 3: We just used to put them out in the farm.

1146
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,879
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe i'd feel differently if I had girls

1147
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 2: and I could play with barbies and sylvania families.

1148
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: So really you just want to play. You just want

1149
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: to do girly things. So how do you play then,

1150
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: when you're not being Justine the mom, Justine the editor,

1151
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: Justine the every other role that you play, Justine the wife,

1152
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: what do you do just for fun? How do you play?

1153
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: You know, we are a big games family, so we

1154
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 2: have a lot of time around the dining table playing games.

1155
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: My husband and I play a lot of backgammon, like a.

1156
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 3: Lot, like a disturbing amount. I don't know, actually know

1157
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:11,760
Speaker 3: how we get.

1158
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 2: Anything done or keep anyone fed and housed, So you know,

1159
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: we're really competitive with it as well, so we pay

1160
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 2: a lot of that. But the whole family plays games.

1161
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 2: So we really love Settlers Katan and with such.

1162
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: Nerds, I love it ride.

1163
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 2: We've been playing a dice game that I don't know

1164
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: my husband discovered recently called Greed, which is really old

1165
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 2: but is really fun. Lots of card games, lots of

1166
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: shithead as a family, so you know, when we travel,

1167
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 2: you know, we've traveled around the world and we always

1168
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 2: have cards in my bag and pull it out at

1169
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 2: a table in a restaurant and wagresses always comment on it,

1170
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 2: but it's really I guess that's kind of our way

1171
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 2: of connecting and releasing. But we are very competitive. It's

1172
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: not necessarily about not winning. Everyone in my family.

1173
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 3: Likes to win.

1174
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: I always say that about rest I'm so competitive that

1175
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, I need to achieve at resting? Am I

1176
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: winning at resting? Did I get an A plus at

1177
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: Resting today?

1178
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 3: Or hindred spirit?

1179
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: So the second last question, just to finish out, what

1180
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: are three interesting things about you that don't normally come

1181
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: up in interviews? Oh my gosh, this is that humanizing

1182
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: thing again, Like, I feel like we know a lot

1183
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 1: of things about you. There's a lot of interviews out there,

1184
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: but there's not a lot of stuff that's just like

1185
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: who you are when you're not on you know, when

1186
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: you're not being interviewed.

1187
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, I feel like some of those

1188
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: things come down to the things that we say, Like

1189
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 2: you were saying, you know, as women, were so aware

1190
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 2: of what people think of us and what is the

1191
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 2: fashionable thing to say in terms of you know, parenting.

1192
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 2: And I love it when you hear a mother telling

1193
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 2: her child off in public and she's like, we don't

1194
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,959
Speaker 2: do that here, and then you know, behind the scenes,

1195
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: you know, she's going, yeah, I guess you know. For me,

1196
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 2: my unfashionable opinion is that I really love technology and

1197
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: I don't mind being overconnected. I really love just fucking

1198
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: around on the internet. Actually, and I'm quite proud to

1199
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 2: say that. Yeah, girl, I am you know, I don't know.

1200
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm so open. I've said everything.

1201
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 1: I'm very what would your husband say that? Like he

1202
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: would only he would know, from like like the snoring,

1203
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: to like the weird habits and the stuff that like

1204
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: only people who live with you would know.

1205
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: Okay, I have three horrendous nineties tattoos. Sometimes they have

1206
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 2: to accidentally see the light of day because one is

1207
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 2: on my foot and when I've almost got rid of

1208
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 2: is on my ankle. But one of them I've been

1209
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 2: trying to get rid of for like twelve years and

1210
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 2: the thing just won't fade.

1211
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 3: So it's my gosh, and my kids tease me about it.

1212
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 3: My everybody teases me about it, so that that's a thing.

1213
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: What are they?

1214
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: Oh my god, It's so like it was like if

1215
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 2: Drew Barrymore got it in nineteen ninety three, I would

1216
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: get it.

1217
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: Too, Okay, So like butterflies, rainbow.

1218
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 3: Butterfly, there's a daisy chain and there's a sun.

1219
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: Oh so good.

1220
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 3: It's not high fashion at all. There's nothing could you

1221
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 3: sory about about my tattoos.

1222
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: But leave them on long enough and I'll go vintage

1223
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 1: and then it will become like really fashion to have

1224
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: from that era, you know, like it just comes back around.

1225
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: Just wait, your time will come again.

1226
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure we already already went through the nineties

1227
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 2: revival and no one wanted them.

1228
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: So that's a great one.

1229
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:18,879
Speaker 3: Yeah. Can I count those as three because there's three?

1230
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: Sure?

1231
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 2: Sure?

1232
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: And very last question, what's your favorite quote?

1233
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 3: Oh?

1234
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I hate to say this because I

1235
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 2: don't know how I feel about Sheryl Sandberg anymore obviously

1236
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 2: because of Facebook, you know, like I struggle with that

1237
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 2: as much as anyone. But I do love the quote

1238
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: that done is better than perfect, and I think that

1239
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 2: kind of sums up my entire life, to be honest.

1240
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: I need that one so much because my default position

1241
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: is like intense anally retentive perfectionist. But I wouldn't get

1242
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,280
Speaker 1: anything done if I really did everything to the standard

1243
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: that I would like it to be done at because

1244
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: I agonize over stuff that doesn't matter.

1245
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, yeah, just get it done. Maybe you

1246
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 3: could get a tattoo of that.

1247
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: I have five already, but none of them are nineties,

1248
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm okay with them now. But winning, Yeah,

1249
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to just like just calm

1250
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: down on the tattoos thing in case this exact thing

1251
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: happens in a decade. I'm like, oh, have seven tattoos

1252
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: that I hope because I had this moment with a

1253
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: quote I really wanted to put on my body.

1254
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it was one thing when I was, you know,

1255
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: in a little floral mini dress at you know, the

1256
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three big day out or something, running around

1257
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: with my hippy tattoos. But then, you know, then I

1258
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: started to get really expensive shoes and it work.

1259
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: It's just a whole clash of things going on there.

1260
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: Your ankles are just a real situation. Well, thank you

1261
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: so much for joining. This is an absolute pleasure and

1262
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: I just could keep talking forever.

1263
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 3: I know we're gonna have to go to lunch. That

1264
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 3: was so much fun. Thank you for having me.

1265
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: This one really made my brain tick. About reinventing yourself

1266
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: and how sometimes it's wonderful but also quite challenging to

1267
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: achieve a goal you've had for so long. I've also

1268
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: added a lot to my beauty shopping list in this episode.

1269
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys, but I was scribbling

1270
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: notes furiously. Please do share this little dose of YEA

1271
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed it, and tag at Justine, Underscore, Cullen,

1272
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,919
Speaker 1: and myself to let us know what you took away

1273
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: from it. And of course check out the David Jones

1274
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: skinnovation Hub. Your skin can thank me later. I'll pupple

1275
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: link in the show notes. I hope you're all having

1276
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: a wonderful week, especially my fellow Victorians as a few

1277
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: restrictions start to ease, and I hope you're all seizing

1278
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: your ya