Speaker 1: We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land. We're recording
Speaker 1: on today.
Speaker 2: When I had a screaming baby, a couple of glasses
Speaker 2: of wine, not every night, but most night. My God,
Speaker 2: did it help because it just dulled everything and it
Speaker 2: made me feel like I could cope with things a.
Speaker 3: Little bit more. And I'm not going to apologize for that.
Speaker 3: It might not be healthy, but you.
Speaker 2: Know what, You sometimes just have to find what works
Speaker 2: for you, and that wasn't hurting anyone.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit Repeat, a
Speaker 1: oddly unhinged podcast all about the manness that is motherhood
Speaker 1: and everything in between.
Speaker 2: I'm Kiri Cells, I'm Kelly mccaren and I'm not driving today.
Speaker 1: I am hap Onbord shoo Choo is driving.
Speaker 3: I'm in BALI. Who oh you're in BALI Yes, dadda, I'm.
Speaker 1: In a little cockta. While Luke runs around, he just
Speaker 1: goes to key, I'm going to be chasing Anywow.
Speaker 3: Kelly's drinking And I looked at Kelly and she was
Speaker 3: like yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, yes i am, because I've paid for
Speaker 2: the trip, so yes I will. Anyway, In case you
Speaker 2: missed it last week, we wrote a pretty damning letter
Speaker 2: to pregnancy with all of our complaints about the process.
Speaker 1: I'm actually feeling quite good.
Speaker 3: It was very therapeutic. I love a good old fashioned complaint.
Speaker 1: It was lovely just to get it off the chest.
Speaker 2: Speaking of releasing things, how is the poos going?
Speaker 1: What a bloody segue. Well, I'm happy to report that
Speaker 1: the bars are doing much better. Huge stout out to
Speaker 1: all the stool softeners and the you know, the liquid laxatives.
Speaker 1: I've been drinking for keeping this preger girl regular.
Speaker 3: Shout out to movicoles. Do you want to sponsor us?
Speaker 1: Yeah, omniolance, omnil.
Speaker 3: Any of the sees or.
Speaker 1: The lusis will take diapers, will take it all. On
Speaker 1: the show today, mummy wine culture as it happens, it's
Speaker 1: not very cute and it actually hides a much darker problem.
Speaker 1: Today we're going to delve into the negatives that stem
Speaker 1: from this movement and how our relationship with alcohol has changed,
Speaker 1: or maybe not change. I'm unsure since having our kids.
Speaker 1: But first, you're up for peak and pit today, my love.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, well listen, we can make it nice and quick.
Speaker 3: Listen.
Speaker 2: My pitch is not really my pit, but I'm making
Speaker 2: it my pit because I want help from the shit is.
Speaker 2: Oh it's about food. Ah, Yes, I'm not good with food.
Speaker 2: I don't care about food. I'm not good at well.
Speaker 2: I am good at cooking, but I'm not good at
Speaker 2: being organized, and like, i don't care about food and alas,
Speaker 2: my child's diet is just not good and I just
Speaker 2: need suggestions that are easy in things that he might
Speaker 2: actually eat, because I kid you, not the only thing
Speaker 2: he's guaranteed to eat for dinner is sol sieges. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure they're probably not that great for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But to be honest, cal like Rue doesn't like
Speaker 1: her repertoire of what she actually eats isn't that big.
Speaker 3: She's sushi. Your child eats sushi, But that's because.
Speaker 1: It's rice and avocado. Like last night, I made these
Speaker 1: cheesy fritz which is so easy to make. Took me
Speaker 1: ten minutes to make them, and I put them out
Speaker 1: with some celery and some hummus, and then I put
Speaker 1: avocado and she ate the avocado and then demanded the
Speaker 1: rest of the avocado. And that's what she had for dinner. Oh.
Speaker 1: I think that we beat ourselves up too much about this.
Speaker 1: I just worry, I know, but realistically, think about like
Speaker 1: how basic your diet was until you discovered different things
Speaker 1: that you actually like. Your taste budge changed. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's that big of an issue. Does he eat eggs? No, wheatbicks? No? Okay,
Speaker 1: those two things are quite important because they have all
Speaker 1: of the vitamins and nutrients that you need. So if
Speaker 1: you can just do more eggs and train him to
Speaker 1: eat some wheatbicks, that will round out the vitamins and stuff.
Speaker 2: He used to eat wheatbags, He used to eat eggs,
Speaker 2: like he tricked me for so long, and now he's
Speaker 2: just the littlest fuss pot.
Speaker 3: He wants crackers all the time. Yeah he wants.
Speaker 1: So, I'm just trying to make you feel better.
Speaker 2: He will have other cereal like, you know, different types
Speaker 2: of zeru, but then he mainly just seems to pick
Speaker 2: out the sultana's heaven forbid, I give him so sultanas though,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, you won't eat them then a game
Speaker 2: like fruits. He only really eats mandarins. He eats baked
Speaker 2: beans sometimes. Like it's just so frustrating. So any ideas
Speaker 2: of things that are actually going to be good for
Speaker 2: him would be wildly helpful. And he doesn't like anything mixed.
Speaker 2: So I will always give him a little because you
Speaker 2: meant to expose them.
Speaker 1: Apparently you're good at that.
Speaker 2: So I will always serve him like at least a
Speaker 2: little portion of whatever we're having, and we usually do dinnally,
Speaker 2: so pasta, whatever it is, I will give a plain
Speaker 2: version to him, So just a few pasta pieces with
Speaker 2: some veggies or something. Yeah, he never touches it, but
Speaker 2: I'm always exposing him.
Speaker 3: So that's the thing.
Speaker 2: People will be like, oh, I just made this, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, no, he won't touch. He will not
Speaker 2: eat so many things.
Speaker 1: Ninety percent of the things that I make for Rue
Speaker 1: that isn't like pasta or pasta, she won't eat either,
Speaker 1: Like I think my tip and also do the shit
Speaker 1: is listening is Babel or baby food Bible? I think
Speaker 1: the baby Food Bible now on Instagram. But they just
Speaker 1: did a recipe book. They're girls like our age. They've
Speaker 1: got one a recipe book.
Speaker 3: That means I have to like make him things that
Speaker 3: he won't eat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but it's showing you different ways to
Speaker 1: make healthy things.
Speaker 3: You know what?
Speaker 1: I mean, and some of them are really good. They
Speaker 1: have like burgers and fries that you could do, like
Speaker 1: it's not really healthy stuff, yeah yeah, yeah, but I
Speaker 1: find it really helpful. Like those cheesy frits I made
Speaker 1: that was literally five ingredients frozen peas, corn, some cottage cheese,
Speaker 1: one egg, and some like dried parsley and things like that.
Speaker 1: That's it. Mix it all together and then put them
Speaker 1: in to make fritters into the pan, fry them and
Speaker 1: that was it so easy. Like there's little recipes like
Speaker 1: that and he might not eat it, but I hate them.
Speaker 1: I hate some of them.
Speaker 2: I think, like I'm just so grateful he eats at
Speaker 2: other people's houses.
Speaker 1: Like I was gonna ask you, does he eat daycare?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, here's everything at daycare.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is the thing he's getting.
Speaker 2: He's getting so much new trans those four days a
Speaker 2: week because he generally has like breakfast, morning tea, lunch,
Speaker 2: afternoon tea. Yeah, then he'll come home for dinner. And
Speaker 2: he also eats like at his cousin's houses, like when
Speaker 2: he goes to either Hunter or Evelyn and Wesy's house,
Speaker 2: he eats at least try things when they're eating. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just at home, and he's just so defiant, Like
Speaker 2: he gets his little ladder now and he'll push it
Speaker 2: around to the kitchen to try to get at things
Speaker 2: that he wants. Also, how do you stop your kid
Speaker 2: going into the freezer?
Speaker 3: It's so old.
Speaker 1: I get so annoyed, shells out ice blocks and just
Speaker 1: starts eating them. Rull just eat ice. Oh and then
Speaker 1: her hands it gets stuck and then she rips it
Speaker 1: off and cries. They're so weird. They're little dummies. But
Speaker 1: it's interesting what you said, and I think all parents
Speaker 1: would have been like, oh, your kid does that too.
Speaker 1: They eat well at other people's houses, in different environments.
Speaker 3: It is just where they feel safe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but when they're with you, they are pushing the
Speaker 1: limits all the time.
Speaker 3: I'm going to see if i can just get an
Speaker 3: ice cream and just get a biscuit.
Speaker 1: I think what I've started to do is feel comfortable
Speaker 1: with what I've offered you. Is what I've offered you,
Speaker 1: because I'd end up making three different things for her.
Speaker 1: So now I just offer everything she eats as much
Speaker 1: as she wants, and then I'll give her a yogurt pouch.
Speaker 3: He also won'ted yogurt? What can you eat like a
Speaker 3: fruit thing?
Speaker 1: Though he likes fruit, he loves he loves, like make
Speaker 1: the thing that you're making, offer it to him. You
Speaker 1: don't want it, Okay, cool, here's a pouch. That's it.
Speaker 3: You know, you have your milk and you go to bed.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But like I never thought i'd be like, oh, why
Speaker 2: is this so annoying? But it's just so annoying. And
Speaker 2: I just don't like I'm so bad with food, so
Speaker 2: it's really hard for me to be like, no, you
Speaker 2: can't have chocolate because I have chocolate every day. And
Speaker 2: that's another thing I want to know about the language,
Speaker 2: because it's like you're not supposed to say good foods
Speaker 2: and bad foods? Are you meant to say treats? Because like, otherwise,
Speaker 2: how am I supposed to explain? I guess sometimes food,
Speaker 2: but they don't understand the concept of sometimes. They don't
Speaker 2: have any concept of time.
Speaker 3: It's just really.
Speaker 1: Hard that I'm not really clued up on. Because Rue
Speaker 1: I try to give her trees and she doesn't want them.
Speaker 1: So that's just like not the path I've been down yet.
Speaker 3: That is the most humble brag I've ever heard. I
Speaker 3: try to give her trees.
Speaker 2: But remember the time I gave her a milky way
Speaker 2: and she just like handed it back to me.
Speaker 1: She doesn't want it. It's annoying though, because.
Speaker 3: Because you don't.
Speaker 1: I like to take her to get ice cream that's
Speaker 1: so cute. I want to get a you know, she
Speaker 1: doesn't want a baby Chino Biscuits, like a yummy biscuit,
Speaker 1: darling piscotti. She goes crt.
Speaker 3: So she's more the favory gal.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's like really specific things. The only reason why
Speaker 1: I think she likes piscotti is because we get coffee
Speaker 1: every morning. She and Charlie go and get my coffee
Speaker 1: and bring it back to me. And the gorgeous guy
Speaker 1: who is like the father in law of Anna her
Speaker 1: owns a coffee shop. He gives her like a little
Speaker 1: two pack of piscotti every time. So she always up
Speaker 1: in the morning going coffee cookie, coffee cookie. And yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's the one thing. But that's because she's been
Speaker 1: having it since she was like one and a half.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, it's not a bad problem to have.
Speaker 1: It isn't. But I do think that, like we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to know this anyway, so it's an interesting topic
Speaker 1: for an episode. We just need to get someone that
Speaker 1: knows how to talk to it's not boring. Well, sometimes
Speaker 1: things are boring, Curl, but it's our job to.
Speaker 3: Make a caste. I guess, yeah, we can bring the interesting.
Speaker 2: You know what Lenny does eat that is just so
Speaker 2: weird olives yuck, but.
Speaker 3: Also very chic.
Speaker 2: He picks them off my pizza and so I ended
Speaker 2: up just buying him a jar. Yeah yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 2: he literally just eats him out of the jar.
Speaker 3: He loves them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 2: It's not good salts anything salty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but whatever. I just think, who cares, I'm so
Speaker 1: over it.
Speaker 3: I might I know.
Speaker 1: The long termercushions. Can we just look at the size
Speaker 1: of Lenny. Yes, he's growing.
Speaker 3: He's so healthy.
Speaker 1: He's like meeting milestones, like he's intelligent, Like he is
Speaker 1: none of.
Speaker 3: This enough team. He's doing his drills, the drills.
Speaker 1: I just want us to be less hard on our
Speaker 1: song because I to go through this like every you know,
Speaker 1: three months. I'm like, I'm the worst parent of the
Speaker 1: world because I cooked pasta for the fifty eighth time
Speaker 1: for her, and then.
Speaker 3: I just see pasta I'd be thrilled.
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm saying, is like, why do we.
Speaker 3: Up over and we'd never beat anyone else up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's seven days in a week, right, Four of
Speaker 1: them he's eating what he's given because there's no other option,
Speaker 1: and three of them you spice it up with whatever
Speaker 1: you've got.
Speaker 2: And you know what, I have a friend who's nine
Speaker 2: year old is still requesting plain pasta with barbecue sprinkles
Speaker 2: every single night because he has such an aversion to
Speaker 2: so many foods.
Speaker 3: So yeah, at least he's getting meat in him totally.
Speaker 1: Something that Roue doesn't eat a lot of meat, Like
Speaker 1: I wish he ate more meat.
Speaker 3: My peak is how happy he is. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: he is the happiest little boy. He does not stop giggling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not many people see because he is shy, but
Speaker 2: he is so cute. He literally does not stop laughing.
Speaker 2: He's very cheeky and naughty. Yeah, like loves to not
Speaker 2: listen to us and just run around without clothes on,
Speaker 2: wave his little bum in the air and do the
Speaker 2: bum bum dance. But honestly, like we were up home
Speaker 2: recently and like he just did not stop laughing and
Speaker 2: running around and just having the best time, Like didn't
Speaker 2: winge that much, didn't have any milkdowns e. He's just
Speaker 2: the happiest little boy and it's just the best age.
Speaker 3: I just I love it.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't want you to grow up.
Speaker 2: Everyone wants like older kids, and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: want older kids.
Speaker 3: This is so fun.
Speaker 1: Can pretty much understand what they're saying, Like you're communicating
Speaker 1: on it enough now to be he's like my bestie.
Speaker 2: He wants to cuddle with me all the time, Like
Speaker 2: why would I want that to ever change? His little
Speaker 2: hand always wants to hold my hand, like he's so
Speaker 2: cute that he is so cute.
Speaker 1: Before we get into today's deep dive, we just wanted
Speaker 1: to give a content warning. If alcohol is a problem
Speaker 1: for you or harming you or someone you know, please
Speaker 1: contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen for advice and support
Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. Mummy
Speaker 1: wine culture so it stems from a growing reliance on
Speaker 1: alcohol to manage anxiety after having a child. And while
Speaker 1: the concept isn't new, I think back to the nineteen
Speaker 1: fifties housewives who lived on vodka. It's certainly gained momentum
Speaker 1: and has been somewhat normalized with the invention of social media.
Speaker 1: According to the University of Sydney's Matilda Center in Australia,
Speaker 1: one in six mothers have reported drinking alcohol at risky
Speaker 1: levels in the first twelve months of their baby's life.
Speaker 1: Anxiety and stress are the leading contributors to this behavior,
Speaker 1: particularly due to the pressures of raising a child whilst
Speaker 1: also maintaining work, household management, familial, social and romantic relationship.
Speaker 1: So the mental load what makes wine mum culture dangerous
Speaker 1: is normal drinking to cote with parenting has become and
Speaker 1: the messages that we are met with reinforcing drinking as
Speaker 1: self care for mothers. So doctor Katrina Pryor, who is
Speaker 1: the lead researcher at Sydney University for the Healthy Mum
Speaker 1: Healthy bub Project, says the normalization of wine mum culture
Speaker 1: and related memes and slogans like Mummy Wine Time perpetuate
Speaker 1: the idea that drinking alcohol to cote with the challenges
Speaker 1: of motherhood is not only acceptable but essential. And while
Speaker 1: alcohol may offer temporarily from uncertainties, overwhelm and stresses of
Speaker 1: early motherhood, ultimately relying on drinking in the longer term
Speaker 1: tends to exacerbate these feelings. She went on to say
Speaker 1: that the normalization and acceptance of drinking to cote with
Speaker 1: the worries of motherhood not only perpetuates harmful drinking habits,
Speaker 1: but also obscures the underlying issues of anxiety and stress
Speaker 1: among new mothers. Na Khal, I've noticed a few think
Speaker 1: pieces on the subject pop up over the past few years,
Speaker 1: and the reaction is really interesting because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of don't come for our wine and leave the mums
Speaker 1: alone in response and.
Speaker 3: Mummy wine culture. I hate it. I hate it.
Speaker 1: I you are very much it though, yes, but I've
Speaker 1: always been it.
Speaker 3: I've always been a party girl. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's not like I became a mum and then
Speaker 2: I became like a mummy with her wine. And that's
Speaker 2: why I think I hate it so much. And you
Speaker 2: know me, I like try to pretend that I'm not
Speaker 2: a mum. Not it's not that I try to pretend
Speaker 2: that I'm not a mum.
Speaker 1: But I just don't say that on our parenting pard.
Speaker 2: But I try to not lean into anything that's too mummy.
Speaker 1: You're trying to identity yes, Kelly.
Speaker 2: As Kelly, and I am a mum, but I'm also
Speaker 2: other things. So I just hate the camaraderie that people
Speaker 2: try to like. I hate the five o'clock somewhere or
Speaker 2: like Mum's around just good open that Sharon.
Speaker 1: Ey at five pm to get through the line.
Speaker 3: I just hate it.
Speaker 2: It is just so cringe and like, it's just it's
Speaker 2: such a bad stereotype and I just think we're so
Speaker 2: much better than that.
Speaker 3: However, I also love getting pissed. Yeah you do.
Speaker 1: Do you think since having Lenn, has your relationship with
Speaker 1: alcohol changed in any way for the better, for the worst,
Speaker 1: stayed the same, Listen.
Speaker 2: I definitely think when he was younger, I used it
Speaker 2: a lot more than was necessarily healthy, more than what
Speaker 2: I do now. However, I do not regret that decision
Speaker 2: at all, and I would give the same advice to
Speaker 2: someone that was really struggling because it helped.
Speaker 1: And you have had no issues with whole dependence or
Speaker 1: anything like that in the past.
Speaker 2: And it's worth noting I don't have any problems with addiction.
Speaker 2: I don't have dependency issues, so I am coming from
Speaker 2: it from a different perspective than someone that maybe does
Speaker 2: have an addictive or a personality that can't sort of
Speaker 2: like stop when they're ahead or what up. But I
Speaker 2: will say that when I had a screaming baby, a
Speaker 2: couple of glasses of wine, not every night, but most nights,
Speaker 2: my God, did it help because it just dulled everything
Speaker 2: and it made me feel like I could cope with
Speaker 2: things a.
Speaker 3: Little bit more.
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to apologize for that. It might
Speaker 2: not be healthy, but you know what, you sometimes just
Speaker 2: have to find what works for you.
Speaker 3: And that wasn't hurting anyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't hurting my child because I was not drunk.
Speaker 2: I was still able to parent. Like I don't do
Speaker 2: things when I'm drunk. I don't go driving or shop
Speaker 2: or actually, sorry, I lie. The only thing I do
Speaker 2: is shop is shop online. Yes, by ridiculous things when
Speaker 2: I'm drunk, but it's not hurting anyone. So I'm never
Speaker 2: ever going to regret also or feel bad for giving
Speaker 2: that advice. When people say, what are some things that
Speaker 2: worked for you, I'm like caffeine in the morning, drinking
Speaker 2: at night, want a.
Speaker 1: Few, one or two glasses, three glasses.
Speaker 3: Like half a bottle is always my limited week.
Speaker 1: A realm of moderate drinking. I think what you're saying
Speaker 1: is okay.
Speaker 2: However, I've always definitely nudged it on the weekends when
Speaker 2: I'm with friends, and I have not stopped doing that.
Speaker 2: Since having Lenny, it's dialed back a lot more like
Speaker 2: it used to be, probably at least once a week,
Speaker 2: sometimes twice a week, that I would just go out
Speaker 2: and rip Sidney to shreds until four am and then
Speaker 2: come home and be sorry for myself. But now I
Speaker 2: still do it sometimes and I love it. I love
Speaker 2: going out and having fun. I love I love the
Speaker 2: feeling of getting pissed, and I'm if that's problematic to
Speaker 2: say sorry, but I'm not going to apologize for it
Speaker 2: because it's how I feel.
Speaker 3: I like the feel of alcohol. It helps me.
Speaker 1: I mask a lot.
Speaker 2: That's the issue, isn't it, though, And it helps me
Speaker 2: be free sexually. I have lots of issues. It's the
Speaker 2: only time that I am like freely able to have sex. Yes,
Speaker 2: maybe this is a big problem, but it's how I'm
Speaker 2: dealing with it and it's not hurting anyone, and I
Speaker 2: don't have a problem.
Speaker 1: Look, I think that that is your progative. I don't
Speaker 1: think we can judge in anyway. I think the way
Speaker 1: in which you're doing it sounds like you've got to
Speaker 1: handle on it, right.
Speaker 2: I think that the whole Mummy wine culture. If it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm getting to the end of the day, five o'clock
Speaker 2: is hitting and i cannot get through it, and I'm
Speaker 2: counting down the minutes to that particular hour, and then
Speaker 2: I'm smashing a whole bottle of wine and I'm feeling
Speaker 2: awful and it's affecting my work on ability to mother
Speaker 2: the next day. I think those are the things that
Speaker 2: you look at and think, Okay, that's a problem for sure.
Speaker 1: I would say that I'm a little bit different to
Speaker 1: you just in how pre and post having a kid
Speaker 1: I definitely had like an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I
Speaker 1: think I drank probably too much. Like I'm a smallish
Speaker 1: person and I would drink a lot and very quickly.
Speaker 1: I have got really bad mental health and I think
Speaker 1: that it made my anxiety and things much worse without
Speaker 1: me realizing how much worse it made.
Speaker 3: And it was used to get anxiety.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still get it now. I still get anxiety now.
Speaker 1: But it went hand in hand with socializing for me.
Speaker 1: So there wasn't a world in which I had ever
Speaker 1: lived in that I couldn't really socialize without a drink.
Speaker 1: You know. It was kind of definitely the same element.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, what am I gonna do? Go to
Speaker 1: a dinner and not have a drink, That's so weird.
Speaker 1: I would always have a glass of wine. But I
Speaker 1: also really like enjoy wine. I love like finding really
Speaker 1: yummy bottles of wine. It was also something Charlie and
Speaker 1: I bonded over. I'd love going to wine tastings. I'd
Speaker 1: love I really got into tequila. It's like my favorite liquor,
Speaker 1: and I really got into kind of like the different
Speaker 1: ones that are available. I love a mez car, like
Speaker 1: all of the stuff. Right, But after having Rue, my
Speaker 1: relationship really changed and really now I'm like, don't drink
Speaker 1: during the week at all. And then I'm like a
Speaker 1: one two drink max kind of gal.
Speaker 3: I have not seen you pissed since well before Rue.
Speaker 1: I can probably count on one hand the number of
Speaker 1: times I have been and not a full hand, like
Speaker 1: not all five fingers, the number of times I've been
Speaker 1: drunk and how to hang over. It would have been
Speaker 1: my hens my wedding another wedding I went to, and
Speaker 1: maybe one New Year, so like four times I reckon, Wow,
Speaker 1: I just could not deal with the hangovers after and
Speaker 1: having the responsibility of a toddler, the anxiety, and it
Speaker 1: felt like I wasn't just dealing with like the anxiety
Speaker 1: that I had from whatever trauma and things I'm stressed
Speaker 1: out about in my life pre baby. It was now
Speaker 1: all of the hang ups about parenting and mothering and
Speaker 1: all of that kind of stuff added on top of it.
Speaker 1: And for me, I was just like, I can't be
Speaker 1: a well functioning person feeling as shit as I do,
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm not gonna lie. Like when we
Speaker 1: did Mother's Group when I was like on Matt leave,
Speaker 1: you know, we'd work all week with our babies and
Speaker 1: then Friday would like have after work drinks, like we
Speaker 1: were trying to do fun stuff that felt like normal life.
Speaker 1: But like even then, because we were all breastfeeding or
Speaker 1: you know, we just didn't want we knew we'd have
Speaker 1: to get up in the middle of the night. We'd
Speaker 1: have like two drinks and we'd just drink them so
Speaker 1: slowly and then kind of go home buzz because we
Speaker 1: don't drink that often I'm not properly drunk, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 3: That's nice and it was good.
Speaker 1: So I think that for me, becoming a parent didn't
Speaker 1: exacerbate my drinking, but it forced me to re examine it,
Speaker 1: if anything, and as a result really make a change
Speaker 1: that was positive for me. I have to acknowledge that,
Speaker 1: like my birth mum is definitely an alcoholic, and I
Speaker 1: think that I had really unhealthy examples of relationships with
Speaker 1: drinking growing up just from her. I feel like because
Speaker 1: I was a bit lost when I was a bit younger,
Speaker 1: I kind of adopted that binge drinking culture that is
Speaker 1: very prevalent in Australian culture, and it kind of just
Speaker 1: just I think I started drinking in like grade ten.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, so I.
Speaker 1: Think average, but I drank a lot and I was
Speaker 1: always like blackout, Like because I was so little, I
Speaker 1: was like drinking and a lot and quickly and things
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it just really forced me, I think
Speaker 1: after I had rue to really think about my relationship
Speaker 1: with it. I don't think I was ever an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: I just think that I never learned how to drink
Speaker 1: alcohol in a responsible way. So I think that's kind
Speaker 1: of the difference, like having a baby forced me to
Speaker 1: do that. Because you're breastfeeding, you're getting up like you
Speaker 1: have to think about, like what's the responsible amount of
Speaker 1: alcohol that I can drink in order to fully function,
Speaker 1: like as a responsible human being kind of thing. But
Speaker 1: where I feel like mummy wine culture becomes a little
Speaker 1: bit dangerous is that all of the stuff, all of
Speaker 1: the cringe stuff that you spoke about, like it's one
Speaker 1: o'clock or wait and go far bad No, But what's
Speaker 1: like at home that has said that.
Speaker 3: I have said that too, like I will totally, but
Speaker 3: all of.
Speaker 1: That stuff, it's a little bit like a joke, right,
Speaker 1: it's like half joke. What it is is for normal
Speaker 1: people who don't have an issue with alcohol, For normal mothers,
Speaker 1: let's speak about exactly what we're speaking about. For mothers
Speaker 1: that don't have an actual issue with alcohol, it's a
Speaker 1: little bit like a oh yeah, lol, I'm a mum
Speaker 1: blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: But for you also, I need my wine.
Speaker 1: Of course I need my wine. But for mothers who
Speaker 1: have issues with alcohol who go on to develop a
Speaker 1: dependency on alcohol after having kids, it normalizes it and
Speaker 1: it gives them a safe space to exist in with
Speaker 1: unhealthy drinking habits that they can do anywhere.
Speaker 2: Because they think, I'm only drinking between five and nine pm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, every mom does this, or it's so normal.
Speaker 2: But they're finishing a bottle of wine at night and
Speaker 2: they're burning dinner or you know, they're just they're.
Speaker 1: Not addressing the underlying anxiety and depression that maybe they
Speaker 1: have postpartum, how hard they're finding it, the cracks and
Speaker 1: their relationships that are forming.
Speaker 2: That's a bit of a projecting then, because what makes
Speaker 2: you think that they are unhappy just because they're drinking
Speaker 2: every day? Some people just really like the feeling. Although
Speaker 2: are you saying that then that's not a problem if
Speaker 2: you just enjoy the feeling.
Speaker 1: I think if you drink every day and you're fine,
Speaker 1: that's totally fine. But I think if you are addicted
Speaker 1: to it, it's a different thing.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay.
Speaker 1: And then I think that a lot of the studies
Speaker 1: are showing what was the stat that I said, It
Speaker 1: was one in six mothers have reported drinking alcohol at
Speaker 1: risky levels in the first twelve months of their baby's life.
Speaker 2: Like what, honestly, though, wouldn't everyone that's been drunk in
Speaker 2: that twelve month say.
Speaker 1: That no, because I think that they're going to ask
Speaker 1: more questions. I think that's probably like a broad summary
Speaker 1: of what the study found, but I think there are
Speaker 1: a lot of questions asked to determine, like what unhealthy
Speaker 1: drinking it means.
Speaker 2: And how risky in what regard like is it risky
Speaker 2: that you just drank too much or risky that you
Speaker 2: weren't able to properly look after your kid, risky that
Speaker 2: you breastfed while drunk, Like there are I'm so confused
Speaker 2: what risky means.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't read the whole study, so I can't
Speaker 1: answer that. But the interesting part of this that we
Speaker 1: haven't spoken about, I think is identity. Yes, so most
Speaker 1: mums have worked all of their lives and probably had
Speaker 1: a really healthy social life. So much of the three
Speaker 1: as a parenting is isolating, especially for the mothers. For
Speaker 1: some there as this biological pool to have kids as
Speaker 1: a woman, and then you get there and you're really lonely,
Speaker 1: and you start to yearn for freedom and the spontaneity
Speaker 1: of life and being carefree like you once were, and
Speaker 1: kids a little shit sometimes, and you might have a
Speaker 1: bad baby, you might have a good baby and still
Speaker 1: feel like you're doing a horrible job.
Speaker 3: And they become a toddler and they throw things at.
Speaker 1: You exactly, And then I think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: question like who am I without my career? Who am
Speaker 1: I without my friends? And often you don't have the answer,
Speaker 1: but you do have a way to take the edge
Speaker 1: off and feel good momentarily. So I think a lot
Speaker 1: of it is to do with the identity crisis that
Speaker 1: a lot of mothers go through, because you go from
Speaker 1: being high performing or just in an environment where you're
Speaker 1: doing a lot of things, and you know, you go
Speaker 1: to work each day and you do things like you
Speaker 1: achieve things right. There might be little tasks or whatever.
Speaker 1: But a lot of parenting is like out fires and.
Speaker 3: You don't get rewarded for putting out the fire.
Speaker 1: And more you don't even think you're putting out the
Speaker 1: fires because to put out the fires, the house has
Speaker 1: been turned upside down, there's washing everywhere, there's vomit on
Speaker 1: the floor, one of your tits is hanging out like
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like you're killing it. Yeah, even though
Speaker 1: you're keeping a little tiny human alive, which at the
Speaker 1: end of the day is the most important thing, but
Speaker 1: I think identity is like very crucial to the center
Speaker 1: of that conversation. I read this really interesting article on
Speaker 1: Marie Claire n. Look it isn't the American version, so
Speaker 1: just take that into consideration.
Speaker 2: Americans are like very intense, like they go to rehab
Speaker 2: about everything.
Speaker 1: Generalization they do.
Speaker 3: One of my.
Speaker 2: Friends had an accident and was in hospital and he'd
Speaker 2: been drunk, but they immediately gave him pamphlets on rehab.
Speaker 1: Well, they probably thought, if he's been an accident and
Speaker 1: he's drunk, he might have an issue with alcohol.
Speaker 2: You kind of assume that from one. I reckon Americans
Speaker 2: just go to rehab.
Speaker 1: I think you can. And if they're driving a vehicle, no.
Speaker 3: No, no, not a vehicle, not a current cident like
Speaker 3: a fallover.
Speaker 1: Accident, I think they're just doing their due diligence because
Speaker 1: what if they didn't give that to him and then
Speaker 1: he went and fell off a bridge drunk. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: he was in hospital two days ago and they didn't
Speaker 1: do anything. That would be the reading.
Speaker 3: Me being like straightaway, what a gutilization. Americans just got
Speaker 3: to rehab for everything.
Speaker 1: So this article was titled wine Didn't make Me a
Speaker 1: better moment. It was written by Kelly Manley, so she
Speaker 1: writes for me. Alcohol never delivered the benefits mummy wine
Speaker 1: culture promised, but motherhood's obsession with alcohol speaks to an
Speaker 1: uncomfortable reality. Being a woman in the United States has
Speaker 1: become almost unbearable.
Speaker 3: Oh, for goodness sake, just listen to this.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. From raising Ivy League caliber children, caring for
Speaker 1: aging parents, and achieving impossible standards of beauty and success,
Speaker 1: to the gender pay gap, lack of adequate paid parental leave,
Speaker 1: and social media which inundates us with everyone's perfect lives.
Speaker 1: Twenty four seven, women are buckling under the pressures of
Speaker 1: American womanhood and drinking to survive it. While I can
Speaker 1: acknowledge that it is a very bold thing to say
Speaker 1: and things like that, I do.
Speaker 2: Undershouldn't diminish how she feels, but I do understand like
Speaker 2: being a woman today is a lot harder than it
Speaker 2: ever was.
Speaker 1: We have so much access to so much information, all
Speaker 1: telling us all the things we're doing wrong all the time.
Speaker 1: It's very hard if you're not in a good place
Speaker 1: to see anything that you're doing right. And what's the
Speaker 1: best way to cope with that that is legal, yeah,
Speaker 1: and accepted because of this kind of wine culture, mummy
Speaker 1: wine culture that's been created to facilitate that for you.
Speaker 2: And everything she's described with the mental load is so
Speaker 2: accurate exactly.
Speaker 1: So I think that that is something like identity mental load.
Speaker 1: Not having any.
Speaker 3: Help wine didn't make me a better mum. That was
Speaker 3: the headline. Have you never tried to play when you're drunk?
Speaker 1: I get really sleepy.
Speaker 2: So it does the honest, Oh my god, I become
Speaker 2: mister G on crack when I'm here.
Speaker 3: I mean mister G in general.
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 3: I'm mister G. Like literally, I'm so much fun when
Speaker 3: I'm a bit pissed.
Speaker 1: You're fun sober with the kids. It gives me a
Speaker 1: bit of energy, a little bit of a buzz to
Speaker 1: get going.
Speaker 3: Wine. In my mind, did the mummies drinking chardonnay, because that's.
Speaker 2: The trope where it kind of I would love to
Speaker 2: every winery they're like, you will lack ours.
Speaker 3: I won't. I will not.
Speaker 1: I actually have a little bit partial to a shardenay
Speaker 1: these days. What it reminds, you know, what it reminds
Speaker 1: me of, though, is the early days.
Speaker 2: Of COVID one hundred percent, where we'd all get pissed
Speaker 2: at home. That's when I started drinking at home. I
Speaker 2: never used to drink wine.
Speaker 1: No one used to drink at home. I don't, like,
Speaker 1: it was not really a thing like then it was
Speaker 1: like what cocktail you're making tonight, and it's like you choose, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you do parties. And I think that I didn't delve
Speaker 1: into this, but like I can confidently assume these statistics
Speaker 1: coming out out of COVID. I bet you there was
Speaker 1: an uplift in alcoholics because it was normalized and it
Speaker 1: was okay to be doing it right. Someone that was
Speaker 1: a somewhat closeted or functioning alcoholic was suddenly being encouraged
Speaker 1: to drink at home at all hours and all days
Speaker 1: of the week. So I think that that's another kind
Speaker 1: of example to consider. And I do remember this story
Speaker 1: that my girlfriend told me about her mother's group and
Speaker 1: they met on Fridays, which I was like, oh, that's risky.
Speaker 3: You just said that you and your friends we went.
Speaker 1: On Wednesdays to talk and catch up, and but you said,
Speaker 1: but then on Friday we wouldn't meet up for a drink.
Speaker 1: But this was the only kind of cat. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: so it was a Friday, and because it's a Friday,
Speaker 1: you know, lunch turns into a drink. And this mum
Speaker 1: would order she's breastfeitting. This mum would order like a
Speaker 1: cocktail and a wine, and she wouldn't stop for the
Speaker 1: whole time. And I think that she obviously felt comfortable
Speaker 1: enough in that space to be like double packed whatever
Speaker 1: what's it called.
Speaker 3: So wait, she'd just have two drinks all afternoon.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, she'd keep ordering, but she'd start by having
Speaker 1: two drinks in front of her and then she would
Speaker 1: not stop, and no one else was no. But I
Speaker 1: think because it was under the guise of mother's group
Speaker 1: and everyone's had a drink, that she felt comfortable enough
Speaker 1: to be drinking in a way that she needed to cope.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a I mean, I can't project because
Speaker 2: I don't know her, but that sounds like an issue
Speaker 2: because it's not like, but that's the thing, right, we're
Speaker 2: the only one having multiple it maybe one extra, but
Speaker 2: other than that, you sort of read the room, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, we don't want to judge, but I
Speaker 1: think it's a good story to share because it's like,
Speaker 1: if you feel comfortable enough in that situation where every
Speaker 1: other mum's breastfeeding, we know, like you know, some moms
Speaker 1: are tracking the alcohol and I didn't do that. I
Speaker 1: was like, I mean, I never drank enough when I
Speaker 1: was breastfeeding really to do that, And I didn't breastfeed
Speaker 1: for long enough to be honest. But it's just interesting
Speaker 1: because she must have felt so comfortable in that setting
Speaker 1: to show that she was drinking in that way.
Speaker 3: Did she get pissed?
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course you got pissed, like if you're drinking
Speaker 1: that much, yeah, one hundred percent. But it's like, if
Speaker 1: you're drinking like that in a setting with other new
Speaker 1: mums and you feel comfortable like that, what are you
Speaker 1: drinking like behind closed doors?
Speaker 3: I didn't even think about that, That's the thing.
Speaker 1: So I think, like where you are, where you sit
Speaker 1: on the scale of it, you're fine because you're totally
Speaker 1: in control of your alcohol consumption, and to be honest,
Speaker 1: you don't actually drink that much. Like I will just
Speaker 1: say that with all your health stuff, you don't drink that.
Speaker 3: Much anymore anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So I think that you're in a healthy
Speaker 1: and you've always had a somewhat healthy relationship with alcohol
Speaker 1: that you can keep getting pill on it.
Speaker 2: Don't need it, oh don't. I definitely need it in
Speaker 2: some social sit.
Speaker 1: You're seeking it. It's a hard it's a hard think.
Speaker 1: Like I think I probably did have a little bit
Speaker 1: of an issue with it, and that I didn't understand
Speaker 1: the amount of alcohol.
Speaker 2: It was back that you said that you couldn't imagine
Speaker 2: going out for dinner and not having a wine.
Speaker 1: I just thought that was normal, though I would never
Speaker 1: have considered going somewhere and not ordering a drink. It's
Speaker 1: not like I need.
Speaker 3: Afterwards instead of a wine.
Speaker 1: But see, we're kind of all sit at different ends
Speaker 1: of the scale. And I think talking about mummy wine culture,
Speaker 1: mummy wine culture is fine.
Speaker 3: Its existing.
Speaker 1: It's the environment it creates for people who have an
Speaker 1: unhealthy relationship or who develop a dependency on it to cope.
Speaker 1: Like the issue was, there isn't enough resources and support
Speaker 1: for mums in that first twelve months to three years.
Speaker 2: Every single story I've read about you know, former alcoholics, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it'll be that they started sorry, I mean in the
Speaker 2: realm of mummy wine culture, that they started having that
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of glasses of wine a couple
Speaker 2: of times a week between those hours, and then you know,
Speaker 2: it was just so fine and it was such a thing.
Speaker 3: And then it was like started.
Speaker 2: Earlier and earlier, or it moved from wine to vodka,
Speaker 2: and then they were waking up in the morning not
Speaker 2: remembering the night before. So it's just like that further escalation.
Speaker 2: But it was still always okay because it was within
Speaker 2: that realm of the Mummy wine culture totally.
Speaker 1: And if Mummy wine culture didn't exist and didn't provide that,
Speaker 1: you know, place in which it was acceptable, perhaps that
Speaker 1: person might not teeter into that. And you know, like, well,
Speaker 1: I think it's just thinking about the repercussions for things
Speaker 1: that don't have the support or maybe struggling in that moment.
Speaker 2: But then let's not get started about football culture and
Speaker 2: men going home and hitting their wives.
Speaker 1: Yep, so let's wrap up the episode on that note.
Speaker 2: All Right, Key has a recommendation, and I think it's
Speaker 2: probably most people are going to hear.
Speaker 1: Most people are going to be their own. Actually, have
Speaker 1: I got a recommendation? Have you watched The Real Lives
Speaker 1: of Mormon Wives or whatever it's called.
Speaker 3: Oh, but I've heard it's so good. What's it on again, Disney?
Speaker 1: It's on Disney. What's the name of it?
Speaker 3: I get confused, people know what you mean. I love
Speaker 3: the moon, but there are a lot of rules that
Speaker 3: we have to follow. We would raised to be these
Speaker 3: housewives for the men, serving every desire. Have kids by
Speaker 3: the time you're twenty one or in my kids at sixteen.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm like this worldly secret Lives of Mormons, that's
Speaker 1: the Secret Lives of woman wives. So basically, they shot
Speaker 1: the pilot a couple of years ago, and it's this
Speaker 1: group of women who are Mormons and they live in.
Speaker 3: Utah, and they had TikTokers.
Speaker 1: They had TikTokers, so they created mum talk. Basically, their
Speaker 1: whole thing is like they are super hot Mormon wives. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's start with the obvious, super hot, pretty wealthy, and
Speaker 1: they want to, like, I guess, rewrite what it means
Speaker 1: to be a modern day Mormon, and like it's not.
Speaker 1: They're not sitting at home churning butter, and they're not
Speaker 1: servants to their men. In varying degrees, they still ask
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 2: That they're not doing that, but they're just sitting at
Speaker 2: home doing dances instead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So they started this mum top thing. They
Speaker 1: became becoming content creators and became really lucrative, millions and
Speaker 1: millions and millions of followers on TikTok and all of
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: And they were all young. Sorry that's another thing.
Speaker 1: Well they're so wise. Yeah, they're like, you know, have
Speaker 1: got two or three kids, and they're in their late twenties,
Speaker 1: so really young or not even some of them are.
Speaker 3: Like twenty five and they've got three kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Nara Smith is twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: And she's got three kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah. She was like, I got pregnant at nineteen and
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm turning or twenty three, and I'm
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, sorry, I'm fully playing with
Speaker 1: my belly. But and I forgot that we were recording
Speaker 1: them get in their NICs creepy. So at the center
Speaker 1: of it, the mum who kind of started TikTok as Taylor.
Speaker 1: She's like kind of the lead.
Speaker 2: That she's the one that there was controversy around because
Speaker 2: she had an affair or something, and she also made
Speaker 2: up ghosts or am I thinking of some one else.
Speaker 1: I don't know about the ghost thing, but yes, you're
Speaker 1: right on the affair. So what ended up coming out
Speaker 1: is that she had had an affair, and she kind
Speaker 1: of addresses her followers about the affair, but.
Speaker 2: Then decides, your husband looked like no, the child, the
Speaker 2: child looks like Stephan Salvatore. That I don't I don't
Speaker 2: know all of this and I don't even like watch
Speaker 2: this show.
Speaker 3: I just know these mum talker is who you're talking about?
Speaker 1: Well, that I don't know. But in the video that
Speaker 1: she addresses all of her fans about obviously her affair
Speaker 1: getting out, she says, yes, I did engage in an affair. However,
Speaker 1: my husband and I had been swinging with the other
Speaker 1: mum talks.
Speaker 2: Sorry, that's so hot, Like they're all these HELLI they
Speaker 2: are so young and hot and they're just like out
Speaker 2: there fucking each other.
Speaker 1: No, but they're not they're not doing like penetrative stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's basically just like four play because
Speaker 1: I didn't want it to be considered cheating, so it's
Speaker 1: still within the realm of so what. They're just being
Speaker 1: a Mormon. It's really weird.
Speaker 3: Muff diving, like, let's just and also.
Speaker 1: Apparently the partner was always present, so it was kind
Speaker 1: of like.
Speaker 2: A big.
Speaker 1: Actual sex Anyways, you never really get to the bottom,
Speaker 1: I would be basically, she drops this massive bomb and
Speaker 1: then everyone's like, well, who were the other swingers in it?
Speaker 1: And everyone's like, no, I wouldn't share my husband, And
Speaker 1: you never really get to the bottom of like who
Speaker 1: was swinging with her?
Speaker 3: But then she stopped being friends with heaps of them,
Speaker 3: well because they.
Speaker 1: All turned on her because she was going out swingers.
Speaker 1: But then they bring her back in and that's kind
Speaker 1: of where it picks up, and she is not in
Speaker 1: a good place. She's kind of dating this new guy.
Speaker 3: It's really left it.
Speaker 1: Even though they brought up like I fully got divorced
Speaker 1: and stuff.
Speaker 3: Even though she didn't cheat, it was concentral.
Speaker 1: No, because what happened is that, like she then had
Speaker 1: an affair outside of the marriage and that's what ended it.
Speaker 1: So the swinging and everything was fully okay, but then
Speaker 1: she decided to step out of the marriage.
Speaker 2: Can only you can only fox someone if I'm watching,
Speaker 2: if I'm oh, except we're not fucking.
Speaker 1: We're poking little things. Giving a ricent okay, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it kind of picks up there. What's really funny about
Speaker 1: it is because they shot the pilot a year before,
Speaker 1: they all look pretty normal, and then when they come
Speaker 1: back for season two, like they've all had a slight go.
Speaker 3: Up, kind of like selling Sunset.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, exactly right, because when you're shooting a pilot,
Speaker 1: you haven't been signed, like you don't have anyway once
Speaker 1: you have.
Speaker 3: A million dollars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then once you're confirmed to.
Speaker 3: Be on TV.
Speaker 1: I mean one of the girl's husband's got like plugs
Speaker 1: and everyone's like this guy has like looked like five
Speaker 1: different people in the space of three episodes, and it's
Speaker 1: because they're kind of piecing everything together. But it's the
Speaker 1: whole question running through the season is will Mom Tucks
Speaker 1: survived this? Like, can Mom Tucks survive this? So, but
Speaker 1: it's really interesting just to see the different things, like
Speaker 1: a relationship emerges. One of the really strict moment because
Speaker 1: there's varying degrees of Mormons within Mum Talk. Some of
Speaker 1: them are really strict as and they don't drink at all,
Speaker 1: but others are like Mormon two point zero, so they
Speaker 1: do get kind of loose and that creates a little
Speaker 1: bit of wine culture. They're part of mummy wine culture.
Speaker 1: That creates a little bit of tension. And the whole
Speaker 1: thing about Mumtalk is that they're together, they like build
Speaker 1: each other up. Like some of the men are really controlling,
Speaker 1: and that triggers other women in the group who have
Speaker 1: had previous Mormon marriages where they were really controlled, and
Speaker 1: so you kind of get women who have come out
Speaker 1: the other end trying to help the women who are
Speaker 1: still in it. You have a woman that's recently gotten
Speaker 1: divorced and she's got two young kids and they only
Speaker 1: like stayed together for a year because she realized it
Speaker 1: was all for the wrong reasons. Like so it's really interesting.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting to see like different religions, but it's.
Speaker 1: Really interesting to see these women who I might add
Speaker 1: at all now supporting their husbands like they are the
Speaker 1: bread winners and their family.
Speaker 3: Yeah they would be raking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like one of the age gaps is crazy
Speaker 1: and like it's.
Speaker 3: Just so now that she's making banks, she's like see you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, except his gorgeous I would okay. And then
Speaker 1: there's like obviously a villain who just is like wants
Speaker 1: to be the main character and will do anything to
Speaker 1: like be little the other girls. There's a bit of
Speaker 1: like a rebellion.
Speaker 3: It's just so is it juicy?
Speaker 1: Interesting? I think you would it's hard because I know
Speaker 1: you don't like trashy, And it's not that these girls
Speaker 1: are trashy, but it's like they need jobs.
Speaker 3: But it's but they do have.
Speaker 1: Jobs because they are content creators. What are you gonna
Speaker 1: say about that they dance? No, but they do like
Speaker 1: product endorsements and things like that, similar to you and I.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know what, I wouldn't watch you a
Speaker 3: reality TV show with us?
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not planned that interesting interesting, but not that
Speaker 1: it's not hard work. What is interesting about this? I
Speaker 1: think I love it.
Speaker 3: You're like, well, what are you gonna say about content creators?
Speaker 1: Kelly? Yeah, how are you gonna shout? Ask? But what
Speaker 1: I think is interesting about this is that you're seeing
Speaker 1: young women who are in a very traditionally men focused
Speaker 1: environment killing it but also finding themselves rebelling, fighting for theirs,
Speaker 1: trying to like forge their own path within it. And
Speaker 1: that's what I think is interesting about it, because cool
Speaker 1: you don't think some of the girls have it in them,
Speaker 1: and then you see them and like all this stuff
Speaker 1: comes out and you realize even the most Mormon ones
Speaker 1: are fucking doing things that are frowned upon within the
Speaker 1: church as well. So but I really recommend it. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of early reality shows that weren't scripted, that
Speaker 1: people in it didn't know how to kind.
Speaker 3: Of behave in front of the camera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also didn't create storylines and didn't like, you know,
Speaker 1: panda to producers and things like this. It's really raw
Speaker 1: reality TV. I'm sure it will change the more. They've
Speaker 1: just been renewed for a second season, so I'm sure
Speaker 1: it will change as they kind of learned the game
Speaker 1: the reality TV. But this as like our first look
Speaker 1: first season is very good. You're just like a fly
Speaker 1: in the wall, like, oh my god, and they just
Speaker 1: spill everything because they don't understand how reality TV works,
Speaker 1: and you're just like.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you should be saying, ma'am, you
Speaker 2: should not said Honestly. I was watching Selling Sunset the
Speaker 2: latest season, and I thought to myself, I could not
Speaker 2: gone one of those reality TV shows because the producers
Speaker 2: would not be able to get me to do shit.
Speaker 2: There was this one part where this girl when she
Speaker 2: owns like this small little country town and she goes
Speaker 2: when she was doing a piece to camera, she goes
Speaker 2: at the end of the sentence, yee hoh. And I
Speaker 2: thought to myself, the producer just asked you to do that,
Speaker 2: and you're dying of embarrassment that you did do it.
Speaker 2: But you did it because they asked you to do it.
Speaker 2: If they asked me to do that, I'd be like,
Speaker 2: absolutely not. Yeehol yourself. I'm going to embarrass myself enough
Speaker 2: on television or just in my life without you trying
Speaker 2: to poke me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All. The other thing about the Real Lives of Woman
Speaker 1: Wives is that there's like a joke on the Internet
Speaker 1: that the music producer on selling some st also got
Speaker 1: hired from Real Lives and Mormon Wives. You know how
Speaker 1: the music's really good on selling some set or on
Speaker 1: Mormon Wives. It's like the music that they use it
Speaker 1: just really amps up.
Speaker 3: Like do they have the filter?
Speaker 1: No, they don't have the filter?
Speaker 3: If do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2: Likely irritate filter, because I know that they all have
Speaker 2: a filter. Fifteen year olds at watch that show wouldn't
Speaker 2: really that they have a filter.
Speaker 3: They just think that that's what.
Speaker 2: Women in their late thirties and forties look like. They
Speaker 2: have got the beauty filter on their camera. It's like
Speaker 2: the bolden and beautiful.
Speaker 1: But you know what that is. Actually, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like a trademark of that type of production, you know what.
Speaker 1: Like Maide in Chelsea has that filter too. It's like
Speaker 1: a thing. Even like Maid and Bondai. The new one
Speaker 1: has the filter too. I didn't watch it, but I
Speaker 1: read a couple of things and it's got the filter
Speaker 1: on it as well, So I think it's like quite
Speaker 1: a They.
Speaker 3: Made it made in Bondai show, Yeah, they did.
Speaker 1: I haven't watched it. It could be good. I don't
Speaker 1: want to bash it, but I didn't watch it. None
Speaker 1: of the people that are on the show are actually
Speaker 1: from Bondai or interesting. I don't know. I haven't watched it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Real Lives of Mormon Wives Season one is
Speaker 1: out now on Disney Plus.
Speaker 3: That is a great recommendation.
Speaker 1: It's just juicy.
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, actually have a quick quick recommendation. What is it?
Speaker 2: It's just another book by the same author. Remember that
Speaker 2: book I told you about the Nightingale? Yeah, the one
Speaker 2: that I said was like the best book I wrote about.
Speaker 1: The Jewish Orphan.
Speaker 3: That was one storyline in it. It was about World
Speaker 3: War Two.
Speaker 2: I read another one of her books called The Night Road.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it was beautiful. It was so different.
Speaker 2: It was not like historical fiction or but it was heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: I was sobbing at different parts. But it was really beautiful,
Speaker 2: kind of like. It was definitely a holiday read. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it, and I might even be writing
Speaker 2: another one of hers in Bali. No, I'm no, I'm
Speaker 2: not back from Bali nevermind. But thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining us today. Share the pot on your socials
Speaker 2: and let us know what you think and what you
Speaker 2: want to hear. You can tag us at Key, Reese,
Speaker 2: at Kelly, Underscore mccaren and at essr die Pod.
Speaker 1: This episode of EAS Sleep Ship Repeat was produced by
Speaker 1: us Key and Kel, with audio production by the Lovely
Speaker 1: Madeline Joanna Body. We will see you next week. She
Speaker 1: is bye bye