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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mom and Mia out loud. It's what women are actually

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Speaker 2: talking about on Monday, the twenty ninth of September. And

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Speaker 2: my name is Holly Wayne right.

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Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens, and I am Amelia Lester.

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Speaker 2: Now, it has been a big weekend for somebody here

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Speaker 2: who on Friday dropped the news of all news out louders.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't caught up, Jesse Stevens is pregnant twins. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and on Friday's show she just announced it to myself

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Speaker 2: and Emily as if like, no big deal, yeap.

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Speaker 4: I put it in the script is Robert Irwin. And

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Speaker 4: I think you and Emma still a bit annoyed that

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Speaker 4: we didn't talk about Robert.

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Speaker 2: Swan because I did watch that clip of Robert Erwin

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Speaker 2: dancing on that which I just recommend generally for mood purposes.

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Speaker 4: Well, the reason I put it in is that is

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Speaker 4: because I thought, oh, I've had a really straightforward pregnancy,

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Speaker 4: and then I saw that clip of him dancing and

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Speaker 4: I started to cry.

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Speaker 3: Because I thought how proud Steve would be at him.

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Speaker 3: I went, oh, you're pregnant. You are very pregnant.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, the out louders have been overwhelmingly delighted with your news, Jesse.

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Speaker 2: We put some videos up on our Instagram if you

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Speaker 2: want to see them of Jesse telling us, and lots

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Speaker 2: of people said that I was like looking really smug,

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Speaker 2: as if like, I know, it was like what Holly

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Speaker 2: realized the moment at which she's like, yeah, of course.

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Speaker 5: She's pregnant, and then you go twins and.

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Speaker 1: I just.

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Speaker 3: My head explode so good?

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Speaker 2: As have you been overwhelmed with the love I have?

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Speaker 4: And on Thursday or Friday afternoon, got a call about

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Speaker 4: the gender.

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Speaker 3: I haven't told you?

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Speaker 4: Oh no, I am so Look, you didn't even ask

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Speaker 4: me this morning, Holly, and you were asking me all

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Speaker 4: last week.

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Speaker 2: But Darling, that's because I'm trying to be like this.

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Speaker 2: I have told myself by from texting you all weekend.

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Speaker 4: I nearly texted it to you and then I went

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Speaker 4: nan out to tell her. So did you know that

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Speaker 4: with twins it's very different. The gender experience is different

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Speaker 4: because I do the blood test and they can tell

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Speaker 4: you if you're having two girls. But otherwise they go,

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Speaker 4: we know there's at least one boy because the Y

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Speaker 4: chromosome is detected in the blood.

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Speaker 3: We've got at least one boy. Oh, which means terror.

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Speaker 3: Card reader. That's a big old tick.

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Speaker 2: Because she said your instincts.

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Speaker 3: And my instincts, and I will just double down here.

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Speaker 3: It's two boys. I know it in my heart, so.

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Speaker 4: We know for sure one, and I think next gown,

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Speaker 4: i'll know if it's it's another.

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Speaker 2: Very exciting. I don't want to wander too far down

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Speaker 2: parenting out loud territory. But did you find out the

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Speaker 2: gender of your children?

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Speaker 5: Amelia?

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Speaker 2: Is that too personal a question for this?

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Speaker 1: Because I was of advanced geriatric age and so I

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Speaker 1: got all the tests one that you got to get done,

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Speaker 1: so they kind of make it hard not to find.

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Speaker 2: Out, because I didn't because I like surprises and I

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Speaker 2: was a bit obsessive about it. I'd be in the

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Speaker 2: ultrasound just being like, don't tell me, putting my hand

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Speaker 2: over what I've perceived might be a penis or whatever,

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Speaker 2: like I don't want to know. And my instinct both

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Speaker 2: times was entirely wrong. I thought that Matilda was a

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Speaker 2: boy my first words when she came out, and the

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Speaker 2: iconic it's a girl moment would get out. But Jesse

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Speaker 2: knew that Luna was a girl before she turn out,

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Speaker 2: so Jesse obviously has excellent maternal.

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Speaker 4: Insit y Yeah, yeah, I really really think it's two boys.

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Speaker 4: And my favorite story from the out Louders, which holy,

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Speaker 4: I think you actually met this out louder in person.

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Speaker 2: I do it on Saturday night.

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Speaker 4: She messaged me on Friday and she said, I own

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Speaker 4: this restaurant and I really wanted to hear it, and

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Speaker 4: I was really desperate, so she turned it on to

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Speaker 4: listen to it because she wanted to know what the

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Speaker 4: news was and kind of skipped through, but she didn't

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Speaker 4: realize that it was hooked up to the speakers in

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Speaker 4: the restaurant, so everyone in the entire restaurant just hears

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Speaker 4: me announcing my news and I'm.

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Speaker 5: Pregnant with a hundred people.

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Speaker 2: She said, I don't give a ship, and then listening

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Speaker 2: to her go wow, I actually went out on Saturday night,

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Speaker 2: which if you listen to what Do We Do at Night?

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Speaker 2: Yeah episode, that would be very rare, and that out

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Speaker 2: Louder came running.

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Speaker 5: Up to me to tell me that story. I love it.

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Speaker 1: Can I just say that I love just stirk about

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Speaker 1: it from the weekend, Thank you. Jesse talked about how

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Speaker 1: she is quite worried and has a lot of anxiety,

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Speaker 1: but also you wrote so beautifully about the concept of

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Speaker 1: never being alone when you're a twin.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that they've got a maid in there, because I

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Speaker 4: reckon the womb could be a little bit lonely.

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Speaker 3: A bit dark, bit bit weird.

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Speaker 4: I've been inundated with love but also with twin mums

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Speaker 4: who just it's such a nice community to be a

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Speaker 4: part of and just lots of advice and you're going

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Speaker 4: to be okay, and not telling you that the first

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Speaker 4: year will be easy.

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Speaker 3: Not that message.

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Speaker 2: No one said that, not anyone marriage.

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Speaker 3: So just waiting for that message.

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Speaker 5: Thanks guys.

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Speaker 2: On our agenda for today. An Australian icon has told

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Speaker 2: the world about the money fight with her mother that

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Speaker 2: has lasted for years and ended their relationship. So what

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Speaker 2: is it about famous kids and their parents?

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Speaker 4: Plus you're going through a tough period in your personal life.

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Speaker 3: Are you meant to tell work about it.

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Speaker 1: And forget about dry July? It's sit at the bar

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Speaker 1: September and We've got two days left to say.

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Speaker 3: But first, in case you missed it.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes a sporting event gets so messy that the police

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Speaker 4: are called. There's some big events coming up in Australia

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Speaker 4: as far as I know, police not.

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Speaker 3: Yet fault, so far.

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Speaker 2: Not the drama, yep.

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Speaker 4: I need to tell you about what happened at the

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Speaker 4: Ryder Cup.

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Speaker 5: Is that golf?

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Speaker 2: Yes, so golf not normally rowdy in my.

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Speaker 3: Experience, not normally the stuff of out loud.

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Speaker 2: Some might say golf correspond to Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 4: Well, most of the time when my dad brings up golf,

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Speaker 4: I associate all right, I go somewhere else.

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Speaker 5: In my mind.

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Speaker 4: But a few keywords caught my attention over the weekend.

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Speaker 4: My mum was like, Pete, tell Jesse about the golf,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, why the hell would you tell.

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Speaker 3: Me about the golf.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, he starts telling me about a beer thrown at

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Speaker 4: one of the golfer's wives, homophobic insults, Trump's there, something

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Speaker 4: about a sniper gun, something about an MC stepping down,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, what the hell? This is not

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Speaker 4: just putting and birdies or whatever they call it.

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Speaker 2: So eddie golf and we're about to really be diminished

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Speaker 2: in your eyes.

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Speaker 5: You're standing. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: So the Ryder Cup golf tournament between the US and Europe,

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Speaker 4: and it's a team sports situation. Normally you're just playing

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Speaker 4: for yourself, right, but US Europe, and it is a

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Speaker 4: little more heated than your average golf tournament. And this

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Speaker 4: year it's held in New York and the tournament was

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Speaker 4: described as exhibiting some of the worst behavior the sport

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Speaker 4: has ever seen. Generally, when golfers go to hit a ball,

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Speaker 4: they're like, they're doing their drive, they're doing their part.

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Speaker 3: Everyone similar to problem tennis.

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Speaker 5: It's a problem.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to say it. Sports that require silence

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Speaker 2: are silly.

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Speaker 4: Oh Hollywayne, right, that is wrong. It is It is etiquette.

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Speaker 4: It is something something sportive gentlemen and gentle women.

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Speaker 2: People are still arguing in the comments on our video

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Speaker 2: about do you remember a while ago we did the

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Speaker 2: story about the tennis player who asked for a baby

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Speaker 2: the shushy in the crowd.

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Speaker 3: And we all were kind of like, yeah, fair enough, and.

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Speaker 2: We put a video upon Instagram of that conversation about that.

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Speaker 2: People are still about that, like months later. Sports where

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Speaker 2: you have to be quite very controversial.

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Speaker 3: Well this year, no, everyone went I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: be quiet.

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Speaker 4: Every time the PGA of America posted spectator etiquette warnings,

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Speaker 4: had big screens and they would go shut up, like

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Speaker 4: these are the rules of golf. People would just start

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Speaker 4: booing really loudly. The crowd taunted UK golfer Rory McElroy

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Speaker 4: from day one. They took a lot of jabs at

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Speaker 4: his wife. They had briefly separated and now they're back together,

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Speaker 4: and it was all like it's U ex wife, just

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Speaker 4: really personal stuff. At one stage of beer can was

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Speaker 4: thrown at her head and she left the course, reportedly

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Speaker 4: in tears. State trippers were placed along the course for

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Speaker 4: players and public safety.

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Speaker 3: Trump turned up.

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Speaker 4: He sat behind bulletproof glass with a visible sniper in

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Speaker 4: front of him.

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Speaker 5: He loves golf, he does. He plays a lot of golf.

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Speaker 4: But he wasn't happy with the outcome because the US

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Speaker 4: didn't play well, which I think probably contributed to a

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Speaker 4: lot of the anger.

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Speaker 3: It was a mess.

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Speaker 1: I do need to say when you say New York,

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Speaker 1: it was happening on Long Island, New York, Okay, And

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get count for both people. But I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to whisper this to the out loud as

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Speaker 1: we called. Don't tell anyone I said this. Long Islanders

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Speaker 1: are the very worst. They're notorious for their rudeness, their brashness.

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Speaker 1: But on the plus that I guess Billy Joel is

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Speaker 1: a prominent Long Islander. They're just seen as very, very rude, loud.

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Speaker 1: They're loud, They're very loud. They're the loud Americans.

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Speaker 4: There was a great analysis in the Guardian that said

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Speaker 4: that this tournament reflected what's been an incremental breakdown in

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Speaker 4: public behavior in the US. The country now lives in

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Speaker 4: all caps, and comment sections have spilled into the streets.

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Speaker 4: The writer Brian Arman Graham wrote that the event was

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Speaker 4: full of people testing boundaries because they've been told volume

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Speaker 4: is virtue. I found the whole thing fascinating and then

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Speaker 4: enormously depressing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I saw.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously golf is not one of my sports.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand that. But I saw a TikTok where

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Speaker 2: they were saying, how one of the I think you

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Speaker 2: referenced it earlier, what the MC who has asked to

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Speaker 2: step down? At seven in the morning. They were leading

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Speaker 2: a chant of f you Rory not saying f about

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Speaker 2: Rory McElroy like an official person from the tournament at

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Speaker 2: a time. And look, you know, I grew up going

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Speaker 2: to football games in England, soccer games in England where

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Speaker 2: it is notoriously rowdy. We are very creative with our

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Speaker 2: deeply offensive songs where you make up about all the

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Speaker 2: players and that's part of the atmosphere and I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to pretend otherwise. But the thing that kind of

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Speaker 2: feels a little bit alarming about this is that's not

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Speaker 2: part of the atmosphere at golf and the fact that

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Speaker 2: it's broken through and become that way. I like that

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Speaker 2: point about like living in all caps, like yes, really alarming.

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Speaker 2: Last night on sixty Minutes, Vanessa Amma Rossi, a huge

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Speaker 2: name in Australian pop in the noughties, told Tracy Grimshaw

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Speaker 2: why she's been fighting her mum in court for over

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Speaker 2: a decade, about a complicated mess of houses, money and debt.

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Speaker 2: And then last week one of the biggest child stars

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Speaker 2: of the millennial era, one Emma Watson Miami Granger, sat

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Speaker 2: down for a very rare and very long conversation with

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Speaker 2: podcasts at Jay Sheddy and among other things, She praised

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Speaker 2: her mom for being obsessed with keeping her in school,

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Speaker 2: having her feed on the ground as she became one

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Speaker 2: of the richest and most famous young people in the world.

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Speaker 2: Back to Amma Rossi, she was only about seventeen when

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Speaker 2: absolutely everybody became absolutely everywhere, and she immediately became enormous.

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Speaker 2: And she says in the next ten years she earned

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Speaker 2: easily ten million dollars, probably more. Mark Holden of Australian

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Speaker 2: idol fame, who was part of discovering Amarossi, said on

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Speaker 2: Sixty Minutes that she's the reason he lives in a

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Speaker 2: fancy house and has lots of money.

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Speaker 5: Right, so she was a big deal.

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Speaker 2: And she says, and she goes into this in this interview,

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Speaker 2: which is very emotional and we're not going to get

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Speaker 2: into it in too much detail, but she basically says

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Speaker 2: that after an early childhood that was marked by abuse,

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Speaker 2: she and her mum were really close, like really tight.

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Speaker 5: They were like a unit.

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Speaker 2: And she said she trusted her completely that when the

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Speaker 2: money started coming in, she would put it in a

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Speaker 2: family try trust, let her mum and stepdad have a

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Speaker 2: part in managing that and her property and her funds.

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Speaker 2: Until one day she found out, Vanessa found out that

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Speaker 2: she couldn't pay her mortgage on a house that she

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Speaker 2: had in America that was not a particularly expensive house,

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Speaker 2: and that sparked a whole lot of questions, a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of digging, and what ended up being a years

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Speaker 2: and years long court battle. Now, the thing that's interesting

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Speaker 2: about this is that she said in this interview that

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Speaker 2: she was the family breadwinner, and that is one of

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Speaker 2: the things that complicates everything, right, because we all know

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Speaker 2: stories about child stars where things have gone quite badly

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Speaker 2: and off the rails, And in this story, just like

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Speaker 2: many others, everyone in it has their own version of events. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: Vanessa and Rossi's mother has her side of this story,

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Speaker 2: and there's no suggestion of misappropriation or mismanagement of any money.

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Speaker 2: But what's really clear is that often kids making a

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Speaker 2: lot more money than their parents ends up in a

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Speaker 2: bit of a messy heap. Mcaulay Culkin ended up in

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Speaker 2: court with his family after he became a kid superstar

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Speaker 2: and home alone. Leighton Mester and up in court with

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Speaker 2: her family, So did Leanne Rhymes. In terms of families

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Speaker 2: that fall apart and tell all books and tabloid accusations.

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Speaker 2: We can go to Jennifer Aniston, who his mother wrote

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Speaker 2: a book about her, Drew Barrymore, both Britney Spears's parents,

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Speaker 2: Lindsay Lohan's parents. We could go on and on and on.

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Speaker 2: It makes me wonder, is the question about whether or

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Speaker 2: not your kids should go on the stage, as they

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Speaker 2: use to say, answered by how much the parents want

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Speaker 2: it to happen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting, right because I read this quote by

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Speaker 4: Macaulay Culkin who said that a lot of the tension

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Speaker 4: and the issues growing up from his father were that

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Speaker 4: everything he said about his father, Kit, who was also

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Speaker 4: an actor, he said, everything he tried to do in life,

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Speaker 4: I excelled at before I was ten years old.

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Speaker 3: So there was.

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Speaker 4: Also this enormous level of jealousy or resentment that he

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Speaker 4: was carrying as well, which I can't imagine.

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Speaker 3: It seems as well.

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Speaker 4: Well, I've been reading a lot about Selena Gomez and

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Speaker 4: her mother had ambitions about working in kind of show business,

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Speaker 4: So you wonder how much of it was also pushed

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Speaker 4: by the parents who wanted to see their kids success.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that Michael a bit deeper than just the

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Speaker 1: parents sort of seeing the kid as a source of income.

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Speaker 1: When you think about Vanessa Amerose's story, which was so

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Speaker 1: upsetting because she's such an Australian icon and for women

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Speaker 1: of a certain age like mine, she really evokes this

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Speaker 1: time in Australian history around the two thousand Olympics, which

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Speaker 1: felt so special and hopeful and positive. So you know,

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Speaker 1: it's great to see her back, but under such sad circumstances.

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Speaker 1: But her story has a lot of similarities with Selena

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Speaker 1: Gomez's in that Selena Gomez and her mother have gone

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Speaker 1: for long periods without speaking to each other. Selena Gomez's

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Speaker 1: mother used to manage her, but then Gomez fired her

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Speaker 1: and she learned about that on TMZ. Her mother has said,

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Speaker 1: but what struck me in both stories is that they

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Speaker 1: both had tough childhoods, both Selena and Vanessa. They grew

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Speaker 1: up in families where there was a lot of difficult

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Speaker 1: challenges and they had very complicated relationships with their fathers.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder in these situations whether the parents feel

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Speaker 1: that stardom is not just a financial lifeline, but it's

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Speaker 1: also a way of finding meaning and purpose and autonomy

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Speaker 1: outside of a domestic relationship. That's so hard, and that's

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Speaker 1: so difficult.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because it made me think about I listened

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Speaker 2: to this interview around when the Thursday Murder Club came

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Speaker 2: out side Barbie.

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Speaker 5: We'll get background to it.

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Speaker 2: The director of that, Chris Columbus, is like a big

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Speaker 2: mainstream Hollywood director, right, and he directed both Home Alone

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Speaker 2: and the first two Harry Potters, so he was instrumental

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Speaker 2: in casting those movies, like at least a decade apart.

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Speaker 2: And he talked about hiring Macaulay Culkin, who obviously was

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Speaker 2: a little kid, and that Culkin's talent was undeniable. They

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Speaker 2: just knew that that was the kid and it was

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Speaker 2: going to be amazing, and it was and became obviously huge.

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Speaker 2: But the Culkin family, as we've already touched on, was

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Speaker 2: very complicated, and that all kind of fell apart over

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Speaker 2: a period of years and ended up in court and

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Speaker 2: there was all a lot of drama around that. Macaulay

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Speaker 2: Culkin obviously went through a very difficult time, and he

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Speaker 2: said that going through that experience, when it came to

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Speaker 2: casting the Potter kids, Hermione, Harry, and Ron, he was

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Speaker 2: as interested in the family as he was in the kid.

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Speaker 2: He said, I certainly realized that parents needed to play

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Speaker 2: a significant role in this process. I can't have an

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Speaker 2: actor go home to a really shaky environment for the

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Speaker 2: sake of a film. It's not worth it. Casting the

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Speaker 2: parents was just as crucial as casting the children. Now,

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Speaker 2: that makes such sense, So he says when they came

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Speaker 2: to hire Emma Watson, whose parents were split, and she's

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Speaker 2: talked about there were some difficulties there and she probably

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Speaker 2: wanted to sort of escape the tensions of her household,

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Speaker 2: and the film set was really nurturing for that. But

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Speaker 2: clearly her parents, or at least her mother, were still

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Speaker 2: very invested in her being a normal and inverted Commas kid,

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Speaker 2: and neither Daniel Radcliffe or Rupert Grinn ended up in

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Speaker 2: these kind of messy situations with the parents. So Columbus

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Speaker 2: and the others obviously did a pretty good job in that.

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Speaker 2: But even hearing that, it kind of sounds a bit classest, yes,

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Speaker 2: and a little bit like it's not your fault if

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Speaker 2: you're a talented child actor, if your parents are messy,

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Speaker 2: whatever that means, whatever the term of that means. Because

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Speaker 2: money is obviously a part of this, and so is stability.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what this makes me think? Of Holly

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Speaker 1: Too is our old friend Gwinny. The Gwyneth Paltrow biography

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Speaker 1: details how much she wanted to go into professional acting

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Speaker 1: much earlier than she did, but her parents, because they

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Speaker 1: were wealthy and they didn't need money, said to her, note,

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Speaker 1: you've got to finish your schooling before you can go in.

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Speaker 4: I also knew the industry, and I think that that's

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Speaker 4: an unspoken privilege. And like the privilege as well of

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Speaker 4: just having great parents is the thing that a parents

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Speaker 4: that are stable doesn't mean that they have to have

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Speaker 4: every resource in the world.

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Speaker 3: But you see a lot of parents that.

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Speaker 4: Have, you know, lots of addiction issues, or there's domestic

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Speaker 4: violence within the home or whatever that is going to

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Speaker 4: make their lives a little bit more complicated. But I'm

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Speaker 4: thinking of even Justin Bieber, and he didn't come from

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Speaker 4: a lot of wealth. And what does seem to happen

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Speaker 4: in certain circumstances. In fact, this happens whether you come

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Speaker 4: from wealth or not, is that if the people around

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Speaker 4: you are profiting from you, I think they stop giving

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Speaker 4: you good advice because you're their paycheck.

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Speaker 3: So if it's like they're going to.

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Speaker 4: Get a cut of whatever you do, of no matter

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Speaker 4: how hard you work. You see this with so many

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Speaker 4: celebrities and they're overworked and they're burnt out and they're

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Speaker 4: being exploited and the parents are standing there going go

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Speaker 4: for it. I mean Amy Weinehouse's father, I think, was

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Speaker 4: another example.

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Speaker 1: And you're right that that can happen regardless of the

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Speaker 1: financial circumstances they come from. Because Drew Barrymore and Nepo

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Speaker 1: Baby herself has obviously very famously talked about her early

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Speaker 1: drug a daiction problems when she was a child star

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Speaker 1: from et and her family, who was sort of grandfathered

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Speaker 1: into Hollywood, pretty much turned a blind eye because she

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Speaker 1: was such a success for them.

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Speaker 4: I thought this in the Selena Gomez story that it

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Speaker 4: often isn't just the person at the center that becomes

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Speaker 4: famous overnight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the impact on the rest of the family.

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Speaker 4: The impact on the rest of the family would be

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Speaker 4: enormous and life changing.

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Speaker 3: You're not prepared and you don't know what to do

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Speaker 3: with fame.

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Speaker 4: And the idea even listening to people, people aren't meant

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Speaker 4: to have a million dollars land in their lap overnight,

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Speaker 4: Like the fact they can't manage that makes total sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let alone the media training involved. I mean, as

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Speaker 1: a parent, you obviously always want to talk about how

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Speaker 1: great your kids are. They and so when the media

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Speaker 1: comes knocking because they know about your child and your

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Speaker 1: child is famous, it's probably very hard to restrain yourself.

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Speaker 1: And I was reading that Matthew McConaughey didn't talk to

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Speaker 1: his mother for many years because she kept talking to

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Speaker 1: the press about him, saying with Selena. That was part

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Speaker 1: of the Selena Gomes story was her mum kept talking

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Speaker 1: to the media about Selena and her ups and downs.

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Speaker 2: And you can understand why because they're proud, as you've said, Amelia,

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Speaker 2: but also they'd be like, no, I'm going to set

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Speaker 2: the record straight. Yes, I'm going to set the record straight,

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Speaker 2: my mom your lovest statement.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she would be. She'd be posting on Instagram all

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 2: You're not allowed to get any more famous than you are, Jesse,

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Speaker 2: because I'm Steven.

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Speaker 3: She's already breaking.

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Speaker 2: But then this is interesting because to the point that

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Speaker 2: you just brought up about how fame can impact really

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Speaker 2: negatively on family, Like, think about people who get sort

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Speaker 2: of instantly famous, like I mean, Megan Markle is a

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Speaker 2: very good example of this, right it's well documented what

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Speaker 2: happened with her dad with Thomas Markle, who their relationship

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Speaker 2: was tricky anyway, because if you get instantly worldwide famous

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Speaker 2: like that, the media on your doorstep. They are hounding you,

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Speaker 2: that are finding you wherever you go. They're offering you

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Speaker 2: large sums of money, they're telling you things that aren't

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Speaker 2: true about what your child or so and so said

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Speaker 2: about you. And it takes a lot of restraint to

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Speaker 2: be able to hold that together and also say no

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Speaker 2: to everything that's coming your way because and you see

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Speaker 2: this sometimes with celebrity siblings, is there kind of like, well,

436
00:20:15,621 --> 00:20:18,222
Speaker 2: there has to be an upside here, Like I'm being

437
00:20:18,262 --> 00:20:21,982
Speaker 2: constantly compared against my sibling, I'm being harassed by the press.

438
00:20:22,661 --> 00:20:25,861
Speaker 2: Maybe at least I can pilo this adjacent fame into

439
00:20:25,901 --> 00:20:29,142
Speaker 2: either some money or I don't know, a party supplies

440
00:20:29,182 --> 00:20:31,621
Speaker 2: business or something, you know, like something that you could

441
00:20:31,982 --> 00:20:34,502
Speaker 2: make work for you. You can see how it would happen,

442
00:20:34,581 --> 00:20:36,221
Speaker 2: and you can also see how it would happen if

443
00:20:36,222 --> 00:20:39,061
Speaker 2: you're an ordinary family and you're working the nine to

444
00:20:39,141 --> 00:20:41,101
Speaker 2: five and you've got mortgage and debts and things, and

445
00:20:41,141 --> 00:20:46,581
Speaker 2: then somebody in your orbit suddenly becomes other worldly, rich, privileged.

446
00:20:46,821 --> 00:20:48,421
Speaker 2: You would kind of be like, well, yeah, pay my

447
00:20:48,462 --> 00:20:49,341
Speaker 2: mortgage off, bitch.

448
00:20:49,502 --> 00:20:49,662
Speaker 1: Yeah.

449
00:20:49,742 --> 00:20:50,782
Speaker 2: I don't mean that.

450
00:20:51,581 --> 00:20:54,221
Speaker 3: It comes up in the Bonnie Blue documentary.

451
00:20:54,381 --> 00:20:57,661
Speaker 4: Like her, that's one of the first things that she

452
00:20:57,982 --> 00:21:00,542
Speaker 4: did was by her mother a house, which we all

453
00:21:00,542 --> 00:21:02,861
Speaker 4: love to imagine that if we had a pot of money,

454
00:21:02,901 --> 00:21:04,581
Speaker 4: you know, fall on our lap, that's what we would do.

455
00:21:05,141 --> 00:21:08,222
Speaker 4: But I did wonder when they're sort of interviewing her mother,

456
00:21:08,302 --> 00:21:08,861
Speaker 4: I don't.

457
00:21:08,661 --> 00:21:10,982
Speaker 3: Doubt how much she likes, loves and cares for her daughter.

458
00:21:11,742 --> 00:21:15,702
Speaker 4: I wondered how that would impact the advice that you'd

459
00:21:15,702 --> 00:21:16,381
Speaker 4: give your child.

460
00:21:16,462 --> 00:21:19,502
Speaker 1: And it's also such a fine line between encouraging your

461
00:21:19,621 --> 00:21:23,821
Speaker 1: child and drawing boundaries around them. There was an interesting

462
00:21:24,061 --> 00:21:28,422
Speaker 1: Glamor magazine interview last year where for Mother's Day they

463
00:21:28,462 --> 00:21:31,462
Speaker 1: interviewed the mothers of four very famous people. Now it's

464
00:21:31,462 --> 00:21:36,821
Speaker 1: interesting Selena Gomez's mother participated in that, Travis Kelsey's mother participated,

465
00:21:37,422 --> 00:21:40,502
Speaker 1: and then there was also Billie Eilish's mum who had

466
00:21:40,542 --> 00:21:43,022
Speaker 1: a career, a small career in Hollywood in the nineties.

467
00:21:43,022 --> 00:21:45,262
Speaker 1: She was a bit player on Friends and so on.

468
00:21:46,262 --> 00:21:49,742
Speaker 1: And then the final one was Beyonce's mother last year

469
00:21:49,782 --> 00:21:52,701
Speaker 1: released a memoir. I think what was really interesting about

470
00:21:52,901 --> 00:21:55,901
Speaker 1: that interview was that you actually saw in the interview

471
00:21:56,141 --> 00:22:00,461
Speaker 1: that Billie Eilish, Beyonce, and Travis Kelsey's mother's all had

472
00:22:00,462 --> 00:22:04,022
Speaker 1: a slightly different approach to Selena Gomez's mother. They came

473
00:22:04,061 --> 00:22:08,662
Speaker 1: from more stable backgrounds and they just saw themselves as

474
00:22:09,262 --> 00:22:13,701
Speaker 1: a wowing their child's obvious talents, like manifest talents to

475
00:22:13,821 --> 00:22:15,901
Speaker 1: blossom and to be out there in the world. I mean,

476
00:22:15,942 --> 00:22:19,662
Speaker 1: Travis Kelsey was very obviously extremely athletic from an early age,

477
00:22:19,942 --> 00:22:23,741
Speaker 1: Ditto Beyonce with singing and dancing, and Billie Eilish, and

478
00:22:23,821 --> 00:22:26,542
Speaker 1: so those parents you could sort of see that they've

479
00:22:26,581 --> 00:22:29,222
Speaker 1: been able to separate a bit their own ego from

480
00:22:29,262 --> 00:22:32,302
Speaker 1: this sort of miraculous child that they somehow brought into

481
00:22:32,302 --> 00:22:36,381
Speaker 1: the world, and they saw themselves as just showcasing this

482
00:22:36,502 --> 00:22:39,222
Speaker 1: amazing talent that they don't even know where it came from.

483
00:22:39,621 --> 00:22:42,061
Speaker 1: But then with Selena Gomez's mother, there's obviously been a

484
00:22:42,061 --> 00:22:44,782
Speaker 1: lot more difficult back and forth there over the years,

485
00:22:44,901 --> 00:22:47,982
Speaker 1: and you could see that Selena's talent was more difficult

486
00:22:47,982 --> 00:22:50,461
Speaker 1: for her to talk about because she was more intertwined

487
00:22:50,502 --> 00:22:50,781
Speaker 1: with it.

488
00:22:51,101 --> 00:22:53,942
Speaker 4: Yeah, She was also only sixteen when she had Selena Gomez,

489
00:22:54,022 --> 00:22:56,422
Speaker 4: So I think it's it's right to grow up alongside

490
00:22:56,542 --> 00:22:59,022
Speaker 4: such a good point your daughter, like that would be

491
00:22:59,061 --> 00:23:00,542
Speaker 4: a very different experience.

492
00:23:00,621 --> 00:23:02,861
Speaker 2: That's such an interesting way of putting it, Amelia. If

493
00:23:02,901 --> 00:23:05,941
Speaker 2: you can separate your ego from your child's talents, is

494
00:23:05,982 --> 00:23:09,262
Speaker 2: so good. To the point Jesse about the idea that

495
00:23:09,262 --> 00:23:11,461
Speaker 2: have call, we would all want to share that kind

496
00:23:11,502 --> 00:23:14,821
Speaker 2: of good fortune and wealth. There's an amazing anecdote in

497
00:23:14,821 --> 00:23:16,901
Speaker 2: that Liz Gilbert memoir that I read recently that we

498
00:23:16,901 --> 00:23:18,302
Speaker 2: talked about on the show a few weeks ago, all

499
00:23:18,302 --> 00:23:19,702
Speaker 2: the way to the River, where she said that when

500
00:23:19,742 --> 00:23:23,462
Speaker 2: she became Eat, Pray, Love Rich, the level of success

501
00:23:23,542 --> 00:23:27,302
Speaker 2: of that book was so outsized. She felt so sort

502
00:23:27,302 --> 00:23:29,702
Speaker 2: of guilty about having all this money. And also she's

503
00:23:29,742 --> 00:23:32,261
Speaker 2: such a people pleaser that she just was giving it

504
00:23:32,262 --> 00:23:33,901
Speaker 2: to everybody in her life, like let me buy you

505
00:23:33,942 --> 00:23:35,701
Speaker 2: a house, let me pay off your debts, let me

506
00:23:35,742 --> 00:23:37,502
Speaker 2: send you on holiday, let me pay for your kid's

507
00:23:37,542 --> 00:23:39,621
Speaker 2: school fees. She was like walking down the high street

508
00:23:39,621 --> 00:23:42,022
Speaker 2: in her little town going that business is in trouble.

509
00:23:42,422 --> 00:23:45,821
Speaker 2: And she says that with the hindsight and what happened. Next,

510
00:23:45,861 --> 00:23:49,182
Speaker 2: she said none of her relationships were ever improved by

511
00:23:49,182 --> 00:23:52,942
Speaker 2: involving money in them. Every single one of those relationships

512
00:23:52,982 --> 00:23:57,101
Speaker 2: in a different way became worse and more complicated and

513
00:23:57,422 --> 00:24:01,661
Speaker 2: more toxic from her sort of insisting on injecting cash

514
00:24:01,702 --> 00:24:02,142
Speaker 2: into it.

515
00:24:02,302 --> 00:24:05,141
Speaker 5: Which is very interesting to know.

516
00:24:05,982 --> 00:24:06,581
Speaker 3: In a moment.

517
00:24:06,821 --> 00:24:09,421
Speaker 4: If you're having a difficult period in your private life,

518
00:24:09,581 --> 00:24:12,422
Speaker 4: should you tell people at work? And if so, how

519
00:24:12,502 --> 00:24:20,262
Speaker 4: much do you TELP? We discuss should you share personal

520
00:24:20,341 --> 00:24:22,901
Speaker 4: news at work? This was a question posed by The

521
00:24:22,942 --> 00:24:26,942
Speaker 4: Sydney Morning Herald recently. A reader wrote in reflecting, I've

522
00:24:26,942 --> 00:24:29,502
Speaker 4: gone through a difficult period in my private life. I

523
00:24:29,502 --> 00:24:31,502
Speaker 4: have spent a lot of time wondering whether this is

524
00:24:31,542 --> 00:24:34,742
Speaker 4: something I should tell people at work. My direct managers,

525
00:24:34,821 --> 00:24:38,341
Speaker 4: but also others I work with regularly. Now they don't

526
00:24:38,381 --> 00:24:41,662
Speaker 4: share the specifics of what's going on, but let's imagine

527
00:24:41,821 --> 00:24:45,341
Speaker 4: it could be a scenario like a parent that's really ill,

528
00:24:45,742 --> 00:24:47,941
Speaker 4: or the end of a long term relationship, or a

529
00:24:48,022 --> 00:24:51,581
Speaker 4: kid that's having a hard time. Not that my experience

530
00:24:51,581 --> 00:24:54,661
Speaker 4: compares to any of those examples. But keeping from you

531
00:24:54,702 --> 00:24:57,381
Speaker 4: guys while I was so weird for two months was

532
00:24:57,581 --> 00:25:02,022
Speaker 4: very hard, and it felt dishonest because I disappear as

533
00:25:02,022 --> 00:25:05,381
Speaker 4: hard as I might try, my moods probably were impacted.

534
00:25:06,502 --> 00:25:09,782
Speaker 3: I was so dishonest the diva, I.

535
00:25:09,861 --> 00:25:13,141
Speaker 1: Kind of vanderberg ginger beer on your jab, which.

536
00:25:12,901 --> 00:25:15,101
Speaker 5: I felt like side.

537
00:25:16,061 --> 00:25:18,341
Speaker 4: I also felt a little bit distracted, which is what

538
00:25:18,381 --> 00:25:19,661
Speaker 4: can happen. You know, you've got to run out for

539
00:25:19,661 --> 00:25:21,502
Speaker 4: an appointment and you think, oh, people looking at me

540
00:25:21,542 --> 00:25:24,661
Speaker 4: thinking I'm slacking off. The question is do we owe

541
00:25:24,742 --> 00:25:28,501
Speaker 4: our colleagues or our boss and explanation or is it

542
00:25:28,782 --> 00:25:32,021
Speaker 4: just you turn up, you meet your requirements. If you're

543
00:25:32,061 --> 00:25:35,341
Speaker 4: doing your job, then what's going on in your private

544
00:25:35,381 --> 00:25:37,381
Speaker 4: life is private? Holly, what do you reckon?

545
00:25:37,542 --> 00:25:39,861
Speaker 2: This is tricky, I think, because I think it depends

546
00:25:39,901 --> 00:25:42,022
Speaker 2: on how sort of safe you feel at work. I mean,

547
00:25:42,022 --> 00:25:44,621
Speaker 2: that's like a bit of an overused term now, but

548
00:25:45,182 --> 00:25:48,581
Speaker 2: I think that there are some workplaces where if you

549
00:25:48,742 --> 00:25:51,662
Speaker 2: share that you're going through a difficult time, it may

550
00:25:51,702 --> 00:25:54,381
Speaker 2: almost be used against you a little bit in terms

551
00:25:54,462 --> 00:25:56,862
Speaker 2: of like, oh, well, you know, we can't give you

552
00:25:56,901 --> 00:26:00,262
Speaker 2: that good promotion or that project to work on, or

553
00:26:00,502 --> 00:26:04,101
Speaker 2: we won't really be relied upon to do X y

554
00:26:04,222 --> 00:26:05,901
Speaker 2: Z because you know she's got that thing going on,

555
00:26:06,022 --> 00:26:09,061
Speaker 2: or she's just been through a divorce, or which I

556
00:26:09,101 --> 00:26:11,861
Speaker 2: think of we would probably all agree is not great.

557
00:26:12,381 --> 00:26:14,181
Speaker 2: On the other hand, if you feel safe at work,

558
00:26:14,222 --> 00:26:16,901
Speaker 2: it can be great to have an understanding manager who's

559
00:26:16,901 --> 00:26:18,782
Speaker 2: going to understand that you're going to need some flexibility,

560
00:26:18,782 --> 00:26:21,662
Speaker 2: because I guess it depends on how much the difficult

561
00:26:21,661 --> 00:26:24,341
Speaker 2: thing you're going through is going to affect your work.

562
00:26:24,502 --> 00:26:26,701
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing, because in the answer to this

563
00:26:26,782 --> 00:26:30,101
Speaker 1: question in the Herald, they did ask an expert from

564
00:26:30,341 --> 00:26:33,381
Speaker 1: NSW Business School who said that there are two reasons

565
00:26:33,422 --> 00:26:35,381
Speaker 1: to tell. The first is that your employer may be

566
00:26:35,381 --> 00:26:37,501
Speaker 1: able to help. But this second reason is the one

567
00:26:37,502 --> 00:26:39,901
Speaker 1: I wanted to highlight. He said that it could be

568
00:26:39,982 --> 00:26:43,901
Speaker 1: impacting them too. Yeah, And that reminded me that a

569
00:26:43,901 --> 00:26:46,262
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, a colleague of mine who I

570
00:26:46,302 --> 00:26:49,741
Speaker 1: also happened to be quite good friends with, messaged me

571
00:26:50,222 --> 00:26:52,941
Speaker 1: and our mutual boss and he said he needed to

572
00:26:52,982 --> 00:26:55,022
Speaker 1: talk to us, and what he wanted to tell us

573
00:26:55,222 --> 00:26:57,542
Speaker 1: was that his marriage was going through a really hard time.

574
00:26:58,141 --> 00:26:59,981
Speaker 1: Nothing even in particular, it was just, you know, that

575
00:27:00,061 --> 00:27:03,141
Speaker 1: kind of thing happens in relationships sometimes, and he had

576
00:27:03,182 --> 00:27:06,302
Speaker 1: been really checked out at work. We had been complaining

577
00:27:06,341 --> 00:27:08,861
Speaker 1: about how he'd been dropping the ball and others had

578
00:27:08,901 --> 00:27:11,381
Speaker 1: had to pick up the slack, and it was really

579
00:27:11,422 --> 00:27:14,502
Speaker 1: helpful to know because then we could say, Okay, we're

580
00:27:14,502 --> 00:27:16,702
Speaker 1: going to give him a little bit of slack going forward.

581
00:27:16,861 --> 00:27:19,581
Speaker 4: So that's my theory, is that I reckon it's a

582
00:27:19,661 --> 00:27:23,581
Speaker 4: kind thing to do to your boss or to your colleagues.

583
00:27:23,621 --> 00:27:26,022
Speaker 4: I think there are moments in your life where you

584
00:27:26,101 --> 00:27:31,782
Speaker 4: get to ask people for grace around certain circumstances that

585
00:27:31,861 --> 00:27:36,101
Speaker 4: you're experiencing. But my question is how much you need

586
00:27:36,141 --> 00:27:40,341
Speaker 4: to explain, because sometimes I think that the details or

587
00:27:40,341 --> 00:27:43,261
Speaker 4: the specificity help people afford you the grace that you

588
00:27:43,302 --> 00:27:45,502
Speaker 4: actually deserve or need in that moment. And when you

589
00:27:45,542 --> 00:27:50,061
Speaker 4: are vague, human nature is such that people begin to speculate,

590
00:27:50,262 --> 00:27:53,661
Speaker 4: which can be distracting and annoying.

591
00:27:53,381 --> 00:27:55,861
Speaker 1: Which is why the example that I mentioned of my

592
00:27:55,942 --> 00:27:58,542
Speaker 1: colleague who was going through the marital problems was interesting

593
00:27:58,661 --> 00:28:02,101
Speaker 1: because no one had had an affair, no one was

594
00:28:02,141 --> 00:28:04,341
Speaker 1: threatening to leave anyone. It's just that they were not

595
00:28:04,422 --> 00:28:07,421
Speaker 1: getting along and they were feeling like maybe they wanted

596
00:28:07,462 --> 00:28:11,141
Speaker 1: to separate. Yeah, Actually, quite a lot of detail to

597
00:28:11,222 --> 00:28:13,341
Speaker 1: have to establish with someone, because it's not like you

598
00:28:13,341 --> 00:28:16,022
Speaker 1: can say in one sentence like, well, my marriage is

599
00:28:16,061 --> 00:28:17,861
Speaker 1: having some trouble. You know there's going to be some

600
00:28:17,942 --> 00:28:20,581
Speaker 1: follow up. But the fact that he had to open

601
00:28:20,702 --> 00:28:23,421
Speaker 1: up to that extent with us is is like you say,

602
00:28:23,502 --> 00:28:25,341
Speaker 1: that's how we gave him the grease.

603
00:28:25,502 --> 00:28:28,182
Speaker 4: Exactly because in that article The Sydney Morning Harold, when

604
00:28:28,182 --> 00:28:30,621
Speaker 4: the expert was saying he had a script and he

605
00:28:30,702 --> 00:28:32,501
Speaker 4: was saying, you can say something like I haven't been

606
00:28:32,502 --> 00:28:35,901
Speaker 4: feeling myself lately. I've been dealing with some problems. Something

607
00:28:35,942 --> 00:28:38,622
Speaker 4: major happened to me, and I was trying to imagine

608
00:28:38,661 --> 00:28:41,622
Speaker 4: how I might react in that, like obviously I would

609
00:28:41,702 --> 00:28:44,342
Speaker 4: feel incredibly empathetic, but I would be desperate to know

610
00:28:44,462 --> 00:28:47,661
Speaker 4: what it was. And I think that's because you also think,

611
00:28:48,302 --> 00:28:49,542
Speaker 4: is there anything I can do to help?

612
00:28:49,622 --> 00:28:51,262
Speaker 3: Is there anything work can do to help?

613
00:28:51,462 --> 00:28:53,342
Speaker 2: Obviously I manage people for a lot of years, and

614
00:28:53,382 --> 00:28:56,221
Speaker 2: if people wanted to share with me something that they

615
00:28:56,222 --> 00:28:58,542
Speaker 2: were going through personally, it was always helpful in that

616
00:28:58,782 --> 00:29:03,062
Speaker 2: term of context. But I entirely understand when people don't

617
00:29:03,102 --> 00:29:05,982
Speaker 2: want to do it, because often if you're going through

618
00:29:05,982 --> 00:29:08,942
Speaker 2: something really difficult personally, you don't want everybody at work

619
00:29:08,982 --> 00:29:10,502
Speaker 2: to know about it. You don't want them to see

620
00:29:10,542 --> 00:29:12,582
Speaker 2: you differently. You don't want to have to talk to

621
00:29:12,622 --> 00:29:14,902
Speaker 2: them about it in the kitchen. You don't want everybody

622
00:29:14,942 --> 00:29:17,022
Speaker 2: to like tilt their head and tap you on the shoulder.

623
00:29:17,062 --> 00:29:19,062
Speaker 2: And some people, yes, but a lot of people know,

624
00:29:19,102 --> 00:29:20,782
Speaker 2: they're like, I just want you to still think I

625
00:29:20,822 --> 00:29:23,182
Speaker 2: can do my job, because I can. And to be honest,

626
00:29:24,022 --> 00:29:26,422
Speaker 2: I know, and I'm sure we all know very many

627
00:29:26,462 --> 00:29:29,022
Speaker 2: women in particular, and I shouldn't say in particular, but

628
00:29:29,062 --> 00:29:30,981
Speaker 2: I guess I work with mostly women for most of

629
00:29:30,982 --> 00:29:34,261
Speaker 2: my career who will turn up and do their jobs

630
00:29:34,382 --> 00:29:37,782
Speaker 2: in the most extraordinarily difficult circumstances. The shit they've got

631
00:29:37,822 --> 00:29:40,262
Speaker 2: going on at home with, you know, maybe children who

632
00:29:40,262 --> 00:29:42,822
Speaker 2: are going through different things, maybe pregnancy, loss, maybe this,

633
00:29:42,862 --> 00:29:47,422
Speaker 2: Maybe that they still somehow manage to get their shit

634
00:29:47,462 --> 00:29:49,622
Speaker 2: together and keep going. And I'm not suggesting that that

635
00:29:49,902 --> 00:29:51,981
Speaker 2: should be the standard, you know, the stiff a pullip

636
00:29:51,982 --> 00:29:55,941
Speaker 2: and the standard. But I do think that whether or

637
00:29:56,022 --> 00:30:00,262
Speaker 2: not to share those intimate details, I understand why you

638
00:30:00,342 --> 00:30:02,262
Speaker 2: might not want to, and I also understand why you

639
00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:04,741
Speaker 2: might want to be vague. And I also when I

640
00:30:04,822 --> 00:30:07,022
Speaker 2: was a manager, I would always say do you want

641
00:30:07,022 --> 00:30:08,022
Speaker 2: me to tell anyone about this?

642
00:30:08,102 --> 00:30:10,142
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd be like a question. You know, this is

643
00:30:10,182 --> 00:30:10,622
Speaker 5: in the vault.

644
00:30:10,661 --> 00:30:12,582
Speaker 2: We can understand why you might need to ask for

645
00:30:12,742 --> 00:30:14,782
Speaker 2: extra time off this or that, But do you want

646
00:30:14,822 --> 00:30:16,021
Speaker 2: me to share it with some of the people who

647
00:30:16,102 --> 00:30:18,022
Speaker 2: work close to you so they understand? Do you want

648
00:30:18,022 --> 00:30:20,622
Speaker 2: me to say? Don't talk about like? It's good to

649
00:30:20,742 --> 00:30:23,902
Speaker 2: do that. But then, strictly speaking, you don't have to

650
00:30:23,982 --> 00:30:25,702
Speaker 2: offer any of that. You know, as long as you're

651
00:30:25,742 --> 00:30:28,142
Speaker 2: doing your job. The fact that maybe you're leaving at

652
00:30:28,142 --> 00:30:30,302
Speaker 2: five instead of staying till six because you've got things

653
00:30:30,342 --> 00:30:33,622
Speaker 2: going on, you shouldn't necessarily have to offer up personal

654
00:30:33,661 --> 00:30:34,582
Speaker 2: details about that.

655
00:30:34,742 --> 00:30:37,462
Speaker 1: You shared with us the other day that GQ has

656
00:30:37,502 --> 00:30:40,181
Speaker 1: done this list of modern etiquette and I love an

657
00:30:40,182 --> 00:30:43,622
Speaker 1: etiquette guide, and one of the sort of generic tips

658
00:30:43,622 --> 00:30:46,782
Speaker 1: in there was be mysterious at work. Don't tell people

659
00:30:46,822 --> 00:30:49,382
Speaker 1: why you're going on leave. Just have a little bit

660
00:30:49,422 --> 00:30:52,382
Speaker 1: of an enigmatic presence at work and if that's possible,

661
00:30:52,782 --> 00:30:55,022
Speaker 1: if you can do that, it depends on obviously how

662
00:30:55,062 --> 00:30:57,662
Speaker 1: severe and difficult what you're dealing with. Is I love

663
00:30:57,702 --> 00:30:58,902
Speaker 1: a bit of mystery at work?

664
00:30:58,902 --> 00:31:00,582
Speaker 2: Well, I was going to ask you because you've obviously

665
00:31:00,661 --> 00:31:03,902
Speaker 2: worked in America A lot are the cultural differences about this,

666
00:31:04,022 --> 00:31:06,982
Speaker 2: You know, this stereotype about whether or not women should

667
00:31:06,982 --> 00:31:09,261
Speaker 2: put a photo of the kids on their desk, for example,

668
00:31:09,262 --> 00:31:11,382
Speaker 2: that to be one of the I mean, these days,

669
00:31:11,462 --> 00:31:12,701
Speaker 2: well a lot of us are hot desking and all

670
00:31:12,702 --> 00:31:14,062
Speaker 2: the rest of it. But it used to be one

671
00:31:14,062 --> 00:31:15,542
Speaker 2: of the things that men could put a picture of

672
00:31:15,582 --> 00:31:17,262
Speaker 2: children on their desk and it would be like, oh,

673
00:31:17,422 --> 00:31:20,102
Speaker 2: humanizes him, nice guy. Woman puts a picture of kids

674
00:31:20,102 --> 00:31:22,062
Speaker 2: on desks, Like, well, you're thinking about work, why are

675
00:31:22,062 --> 00:31:25,222
Speaker 2: you thinking about your children? Have you noticed cultural differences

676
00:31:25,262 --> 00:31:27,741
Speaker 2: in how much of your personal life is allowed to

677
00:31:27,782 --> 00:31:29,102
Speaker 2: seep into the office. Oh?

678
00:31:29,142 --> 00:31:31,822
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think one of the biggest things is, I mean,

679
00:31:31,822 --> 00:31:34,862
Speaker 1: Australia has recently codified this idea that you should not

680
00:31:35,062 --> 00:31:38,102
Speaker 1: contact people outside of work hours. That's kind of like

681
00:31:38,262 --> 00:31:41,782
Speaker 1: actual law. Now in the US, your boss will get

682
00:31:41,822 --> 00:31:44,622
Speaker 1: angry at you if they email you on the weekend

683
00:31:44,661 --> 00:31:47,422
Speaker 1: and you don't respond or yeah, it depends on the workplace,

684
00:31:47,422 --> 00:31:51,222
Speaker 1: but the expectation is that you should be available. And

685
00:31:51,262 --> 00:31:53,822
Speaker 1: that's particularly so given that I work in the media,

686
00:31:53,862 --> 00:31:55,582
Speaker 1: and this idea of you need to have a really

687
00:31:55,822 --> 00:31:58,982
Speaker 1: fast twitch muscle when you're responding to news. In general,

688
00:31:59,062 --> 00:32:02,181
Speaker 1: I think Australians are more comfortable sharing things at work,

689
00:32:02,502 --> 00:32:06,222
Speaker 1: and I think that's because sometimes alcohol is more often

690
00:32:06,222 --> 00:32:09,862
Speaker 1: involved in socializing in Australia, so people tend to share more.

691
00:32:09,982 --> 00:32:12,702
Speaker 1: I remember when I first moved back to Australia from

692
00:32:12,702 --> 00:32:15,142
Speaker 1: the US, I went to lunch with a book publicist.

693
00:32:15,262 --> 00:32:17,822
Speaker 1: This is a few years ago now, and we sat

694
00:32:17,862 --> 00:32:20,542
Speaker 1: down for lunch and she said, would you like a cocktail?

695
00:32:20,542 --> 00:32:22,342
Speaker 1: So I ordered a cocktail and then she said, and

696
00:32:22,382 --> 00:32:23,941
Speaker 1: do you want to split a bottle of wine on

697
00:32:23,982 --> 00:32:24,342
Speaker 1: the side.

698
00:32:24,422 --> 00:32:24,902
Speaker 5: Wow?

699
00:32:24,942 --> 00:32:28,461
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, okay, you know that's inevitably

700
00:32:28,462 --> 00:32:31,822
Speaker 1: going to lead to disclosure. Yeah. And in an American workplace,

701
00:32:32,102 --> 00:32:34,701
Speaker 1: even mom and Mia has worked drinks on a certain

702
00:32:34,742 --> 00:32:36,782
Speaker 1: day of the week, that's just not really in the

703
00:32:36,822 --> 00:32:40,862
Speaker 1: American work culture. So those lines are much more clearly demarketed.

704
00:32:41,302 --> 00:32:42,222
Speaker 5: That's interesting.

705
00:32:42,822 --> 00:32:44,582
Speaker 2: One of the times this came home to me is

706
00:32:44,702 --> 00:32:48,022
Speaker 2: ages ago, somebody advised me this is when you're young.

707
00:32:48,622 --> 00:32:50,102
Speaker 2: You might go in to ask your boss for a

708
00:32:50,142 --> 00:32:52,461
Speaker 2: pay rise, for example, and be like, I'm saving for

709
00:32:52,542 --> 00:32:55,422
Speaker 2: a house, or my husband's just lost his job, or

710
00:32:55,542 --> 00:32:57,342
Speaker 2: you know, like you give a person my.

711
00:32:57,382 --> 00:32:58,102
Speaker 3: Rent just went up.

712
00:32:58,182 --> 00:32:59,862
Speaker 2: Yeah, my rent just went up, so I need some

713
00:32:59,902 --> 00:33:04,422
Speaker 2: more money. That is irrelevant to your boss. However, some

714
00:33:04,462 --> 00:33:06,782
Speaker 2: bosses like to note that kind of stuff and like

715
00:33:06,822 --> 00:33:09,262
Speaker 2: to use it almost as leverage with you if you

716
00:33:09,342 --> 00:33:11,822
Speaker 2: give them and this is sort of a bad boss,

717
00:33:11,822 --> 00:33:13,421
Speaker 2: I would say, broadly, but if you give them a

718
00:33:13,462 --> 00:33:15,622
Speaker 2: little insight into your life and why you need what

719
00:33:15,702 --> 00:33:18,342
Speaker 2: you need, it can also be used to kind of

720
00:33:18,382 --> 00:33:19,502
Speaker 2: wege you a little bit.

721
00:33:19,422 --> 00:33:20,102
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.

722
00:33:20,822 --> 00:33:23,382
Speaker 2: But I remember that that when I was young, getting

723
00:33:23,422 --> 00:33:27,142
Speaker 2: that advice of like, your problems are not your manager's problems.

724
00:33:27,182 --> 00:33:29,022
Speaker 2: So if you think you should have a pay rise,

725
00:33:29,382 --> 00:33:32,782
Speaker 2: it's not because you're saving up for a car or

726
00:33:32,822 --> 00:33:34,702
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. Your rent went up, it has

727
00:33:34,742 --> 00:33:36,941
Speaker 2: to be because you're doing X, Y Z, And I

728
00:33:37,102 --> 00:33:38,182
Speaker 2: wonder if there's.

729
00:33:38,022 --> 00:33:39,022
Speaker 5: An inverse of that.

730
00:33:39,262 --> 00:33:41,421
Speaker 2: I think it still all comes down to trust and

731
00:33:41,462 --> 00:33:44,462
Speaker 2: whether or not you feel safe sharing that information or

732
00:33:44,462 --> 00:33:46,142
Speaker 2: whether it might be used against you.

733
00:33:46,342 --> 00:33:48,302
Speaker 1: But I also think that we've talked a lot here

734
00:33:48,302 --> 00:33:51,822
Speaker 1: about bosses. I just want to also inject that idea

735
00:33:51,822 --> 00:33:54,822
Speaker 1: of colleagues and the fact that sometimes sharing with a

736
00:33:54,902 --> 00:33:58,462
Speaker 1: colleague can be very powerful and can help them pick

737
00:33:58,542 --> 00:34:01,102
Speaker 1: up the slack for you and give you that grace. Like,

738
00:34:01,182 --> 00:34:03,222
Speaker 1: I think that your point about bosses and what they

739
00:34:03,222 --> 00:34:05,662
Speaker 1: can do with that information is really well taken. It's

740
00:34:05,702 --> 00:34:07,582
Speaker 1: that whole idea of HR is not there for you,

741
00:34:07,622 --> 00:34:10,701
Speaker 1: They're there for the company. Colleagues I think can be

742
00:34:10,862 --> 00:34:13,582
Speaker 1: real sources of support in difficult times.

743
00:34:14,502 --> 00:34:17,022
Speaker 2: I learned something this weekend from looking at the wedding

744
00:34:17,022 --> 00:34:20,902
Speaker 2: pictures of some very famous people. We mentioned her already today,

745
00:34:21,102 --> 00:34:24,462
Speaker 2: but one Selena Gomez, got married on the weekend, and

746
00:34:24,502 --> 00:34:26,542
Speaker 2: what I learned is that it's very cool to make

747
00:34:26,582 --> 00:34:29,502
Speaker 2: the pictures look as fuzzy, chaotic and low fire as possible.

748
00:34:29,582 --> 00:34:30,542
Speaker 3: They're a giant orbs.

749
00:34:30,741 --> 00:34:34,222
Speaker 2: Yes, there are giant orbs, right Selena Gomez. Let's remind

750
00:34:34,261 --> 00:34:39,181
Speaker 2: everybody she's got four hundred and seventeen million Instagram followers.

751
00:34:39,221 --> 00:34:40,901
Speaker 4: I don't know if she's still the most followed woman

752
00:34:40,942 --> 00:34:43,062
Speaker 4: on Instagram, but for a long time she at least was.

753
00:34:43,462 --> 00:34:46,462
Speaker 2: That is a lot of people, right. She is so

754
00:34:46,701 --> 00:34:49,261
Speaker 2: famous and so well connected that obviously she married. Benny

755
00:34:49,302 --> 00:34:52,341
Speaker 2: Blanco is a very famous producer and songwriter, and reportedly

756
00:34:52,422 --> 00:34:55,661
Speaker 2: at this wedding were Taylor Swift, who may have made

757
00:34:55,661 --> 00:35:00,742
Speaker 2: a speech Paris, Hilton Carra Telavian, Paul Rudd, Martin Short,

758
00:35:00,781 --> 00:35:04,422
Speaker 2: Steve Martin, Mark Ronson ed Shearing like a lot of

759
00:35:04,622 --> 00:35:06,222
Speaker 2: exceptionally famous teaching.

760
00:35:06,302 --> 00:35:08,382
Speaker 4: You know that Steve Martin and Martin Short gave a

761
00:35:08,422 --> 00:35:09,542
Speaker 4: speech at the rehearsal dinner.

762
00:35:09,862 --> 00:35:12,102
Speaker 5: Can you imagine they would have been funny.

763
00:35:12,701 --> 00:35:16,622
Speaker 2: So basically she's having the wedding beyond all weddings, yep.

764
00:35:17,102 --> 00:35:19,741
Speaker 2: And yet on her Instagram, and of course they might

765
00:35:19,781 --> 00:35:22,142
Speaker 2: all come out these pictures. Famous people often dribble them

766
00:35:22,142 --> 00:35:24,942
Speaker 2: out a bit later. The photographs are They're beautiful, but

767
00:35:25,422 --> 00:35:27,822
Speaker 2: they look like they were taken with my digital camera

768
00:35:27,862 --> 00:35:31,462
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six, and they are blurry. They are

769
00:35:31,582 --> 00:35:34,781
Speaker 2: very upclosed, the crops are off their orbs. As you've discussed,

770
00:35:35,181 --> 00:35:37,142
Speaker 2: I also spent I don't know why I'm so obsessed

771
00:35:37,142 --> 00:35:40,301
Speaker 2: with this, but Charlie XCX, she's had the most chaotic

772
00:35:40,942 --> 00:35:44,342
Speaker 2: Italian wedding where I've never seen so many good looking

773
00:35:44,342 --> 00:35:47,142
Speaker 2: people sew off their chops at the same time, like

774
00:35:47,342 --> 00:35:50,822
Speaker 2: just stumbling around. But again, so many photos, every single

775
00:35:50,822 --> 00:35:55,261
Speaker 2: one of them badly cropped, hazy, messy, like it's a

776
00:35:55,422 --> 00:35:59,582
Speaker 2: vibe obviously like our posed, nice, slick wedding pictures that

777
00:35:59,661 --> 00:36:01,822
Speaker 2: you take hours to take out.

778
00:36:01,982 --> 00:36:04,181
Speaker 1: I saw a comment that said that the photos at

779
00:36:04,181 --> 00:36:06,261
Speaker 1: that wedding, at the Selena wedding, looked like they were

780
00:36:06,302 --> 00:36:08,902
Speaker 1: taken with a vasaline smeared potato.

781
00:36:09,542 --> 00:36:10,261
Speaker 3: Exactly right.

782
00:36:10,822 --> 00:36:13,502
Speaker 4: There's one where she looks radioactive, like there's a life

783
00:36:13,542 --> 00:36:17,741
Speaker 4: behind her or something like the lighting's very, very strange.

784
00:36:18,022 --> 00:36:20,582
Speaker 4: And it just made me think of every photo of

785
00:36:20,701 --> 00:36:24,982
Speaker 4: me taken between twenty ten and about twenty thirteen, where

786
00:36:24,982 --> 00:36:28,902
Speaker 4: Instagram filters were everything, and I go back and I'm like,

787
00:36:28,942 --> 00:36:31,261
Speaker 4: I don't know what I looked like at twenty two

788
00:36:31,701 --> 00:36:33,461
Speaker 4: because I'm CPA.

789
00:36:33,542 --> 00:36:34,342
Speaker 3: I just worry.

790
00:36:34,422 --> 00:36:36,942
Speaker 4: I worry that they'll look back and they'll go I

791
00:36:36,982 --> 00:36:40,422
Speaker 4: wonder if they still have the original prints without all

792
00:36:40,462 --> 00:36:41,502
Speaker 4: the filtering and editing.

793
00:36:42,181 --> 00:36:44,341
Speaker 1: I walked past a wedding the other day at a

794
00:36:44,382 --> 00:36:46,462
Speaker 1: beach and it looked very fancy, and there was a

795
00:36:46,502 --> 00:36:48,781
Speaker 1: big sign up welcoming people to the wedding, and it

796
00:36:48,822 --> 00:36:51,142
Speaker 1: said I'm going to make up the bride's name, Welcome

797
00:36:51,181 --> 00:36:53,862
Speaker 1: to the Wedding of Mary, and then down at the

798
00:36:53,862 --> 00:36:57,661
Speaker 1: bottom it said featuring hours And I was like at

799
00:36:57,741 --> 00:37:00,982
Speaker 1: least for being real. Now who this event is for.

800
00:37:00,982 --> 00:37:01,822
Speaker 5: That's so funny.

801
00:37:01,862 --> 00:37:04,702
Speaker 2: I have to quick correction now that we're on weddings.

802
00:37:05,022 --> 00:37:09,502
Speaker 2: If you believed that Keanu Reeves married Alexandra Grant recently,

803
00:37:09,701 --> 00:37:13,102
Speaker 2: you were either a tricked by an AI photograph on

804
00:37:13,142 --> 00:37:16,981
Speaker 2: the internet or be listening to this show. Because when

805
00:37:17,022 --> 00:37:19,062
Speaker 2: I was sick, Amir was on. I think we all

806
00:37:19,102 --> 00:37:21,702
Speaker 2: told you that Keanu Reeves got married to Alexandra gram.

807
00:37:21,622 --> 00:37:23,502
Speaker 3: Someone on this show told me that maybe I brought it.

808
00:37:23,582 --> 00:37:25,902
Speaker 4: I can't remember, but that appeared to be fact in

809
00:37:25,942 --> 00:37:26,422
Speaker 4: my scripts.

810
00:37:26,582 --> 00:37:28,582
Speaker 2: The photo that you have seen on the internet, and

811
00:37:28,622 --> 00:37:32,062
Speaker 2: this has been served to me many times, of Keanu

812
00:37:32,142 --> 00:37:36,661
Speaker 2: Reeves and his glorious partner Alexandra holding out their hands,

813
00:37:36,862 --> 00:37:38,302
Speaker 2: knows you so very.

814
00:37:38,181 --> 00:37:40,022
Speaker 5: Very well, is fake.

815
00:37:40,302 --> 00:37:43,142
Speaker 2: It is AI, and it has been so well spread

816
00:37:43,181 --> 00:37:46,102
Speaker 2: that Alexandra herself had to release a photo, a very beautiful,

817
00:37:46,261 --> 00:37:48,861
Speaker 2: very artip photo of her and Keanu just after having

818
00:37:48,862 --> 00:37:51,622
Speaker 2: a little kiss, saying this is a real photo, not

819
00:37:51,661 --> 00:37:55,181
Speaker 2: an engagement photo or an AI wedding announcement, simply a kiss.

820
00:37:55,221 --> 00:37:57,062
Speaker 2: I'm sharing it here to say thank you to everyone

821
00:37:57,181 --> 00:38:00,702
Speaker 2: for the congratulations on our wedding, except we didn't get married.

822
00:38:01,181 --> 00:38:03,781
Speaker 2: Good news is much needed these days, but it's still

823
00:38:03,862 --> 00:38:05,822
Speaker 2: fake news, so be careful out.

824
00:38:05,661 --> 00:38:08,102
Speaker 1: There, which is, by the way, why they're the cause

825
00:38:08,181 --> 00:38:11,181
Speaker 1: couple just like you, not just sending to this bourgeois

826
00:38:11,181 --> 00:38:12,222
Speaker 1: institution of Marion.

827
00:38:12,302 --> 00:38:14,942
Speaker 2: They are not. And I think that Alexandra and Keanu

828
00:38:15,022 --> 00:38:17,181
Speaker 2: were a little bit offended that everybody thought they might

829
00:38:17,342 --> 00:38:19,261
Speaker 2: but they would be that basic, and that if they

830
00:38:19,302 --> 00:38:21,782
Speaker 2: did that, their wedding picture would look that clear.

831
00:38:22,302 --> 00:38:24,661
Speaker 4: Yeah, but she's just in a standard wedding dress and

832
00:38:24,701 --> 00:38:25,301
Speaker 4: he's just in.

833
00:38:25,221 --> 00:38:28,422
Speaker 2: A tux and there were no potatoes involved in the

834
00:38:28,422 --> 00:38:29,862
Speaker 2: photography of their wedding.

835
00:38:30,741 --> 00:38:34,222
Speaker 1: After the break, there's an elder influencer in New York

836
00:38:34,261 --> 00:38:37,861
Speaker 1: who has a radical new way to meet people and

837
00:38:37,902 --> 00:38:41,582
Speaker 1: it involves, wait for it, a conversation.

838
00:38:42,221 --> 00:38:44,022
Speaker 3: What unlimited out loud access.

839
00:38:44,302 --> 00:38:48,461
Speaker 4: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Muma

840
00:38:48,542 --> 00:38:51,542
Speaker 4: Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to

841
00:38:51,582 --> 00:38:54,181
Speaker 4: get us in your ears five days a week. And

842
00:38:54,261 --> 00:38:59,022
Speaker 4: a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

843
00:39:04,582 --> 00:39:06,542
Speaker 1: So, first of all, I wanted to introduce you both

844
00:39:06,582 --> 00:39:09,062
Speaker 1: to the concept of an elder influencer. Did you know

845
00:39:09,102 --> 00:39:10,622
Speaker 1: that there were older influences.

846
00:39:10,781 --> 00:39:12,062
Speaker 5: No, but I'm excited.

847
00:39:12,502 --> 00:39:15,181
Speaker 1: Laurie Cooper is a real estate agent from Brooklyn who

848
00:39:15,221 --> 00:39:17,542
Speaker 1: will not tell you her age, which I love for her.

849
00:39:18,462 --> 00:39:20,422
Speaker 1: But she looks like she's lived a life, and she

850
00:39:20,462 --> 00:39:23,462
Speaker 1: looks like she's probably very accomplished in the real estate business.

851
00:39:23,502 --> 00:39:25,981
Speaker 2: Can I interject with a question, yes, at what age

852
00:39:25,982 --> 00:39:28,381
Speaker 2: am I allowed to stop telling people my age? And

853
00:39:28,622 --> 00:39:31,542
Speaker 2: what do I say when people say how old are you?

854
00:39:31,582 --> 00:39:33,982
Speaker 5: Do you have any thoughts? I am just elder, I.

855
00:39:36,062 --> 00:39:39,862
Speaker 1: Am elder influencer. I just met someone on the weekend.

856
00:39:40,102 --> 00:39:42,781
Speaker 1: She was I think almost certainly my age, and I

857
00:39:42,822 --> 00:39:45,381
Speaker 1: am forty two, and she refused to say how old

858
00:39:45,422 --> 00:39:47,181
Speaker 1: she was. And that was the first time I've met

859
00:39:47,261 --> 00:39:50,222
Speaker 1: someone who's sort of contemporaneous with me who is no longer.

860
00:39:50,582 --> 00:39:51,741
Speaker 3: And how did she refuse?

861
00:39:52,181 --> 00:39:55,142
Speaker 1: Well, my partner asked her age because he's very rude.

862
00:39:56,221 --> 00:40:01,462
Speaker 1: She's American and American not from Long Island, and she emerged.

863
00:40:01,502 --> 00:40:04,022
Speaker 1: She simply said, I'm not going to tell you my age,

864
00:40:04,942 --> 00:40:08,702
Speaker 1: and I respected it. I think the answer is now, Holy,

865
00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:10,941
Speaker 1: I think I should be not telling people my age

866
00:40:10,982 --> 00:40:11,662
Speaker 1: starting now.

867
00:40:11,701 --> 00:40:13,941
Speaker 2: My NN used to say, I'm as old as my tongue.

868
00:40:14,102 --> 00:40:17,181
Speaker 2: I'm younger than my teeth. That's what I'm going to

869
00:40:17,221 --> 00:40:18,342
Speaker 2: start saying from now on.

870
00:40:19,462 --> 00:40:23,701
Speaker 1: So Laurie Cooper, who has a great TikTok presence, and

871
00:40:23,781 --> 00:40:26,222
Speaker 1: I recommend you check her out. But she has become

872
00:40:26,382 --> 00:40:30,102
Speaker 1: very prominent lately because she has started something called sit

873
00:40:30,261 --> 00:40:34,301
Speaker 1: at the Bar September. So Laurie says that in September,

874
00:40:34,342 --> 00:40:36,461
Speaker 1: and let me remind you there are two days left

875
00:40:36,502 --> 00:40:39,381
Speaker 1: in September for you to do this. People of all

876
00:40:39,422 --> 00:40:41,901
Speaker 1: stripes need to go and sit in bars and talk

877
00:40:41,942 --> 00:40:43,981
Speaker 1: to people, and that is how she says you will

878
00:40:43,982 --> 00:40:45,542
Speaker 1: meet the love of your life if in fact you

879
00:40:45,582 --> 00:40:47,582
Speaker 1: are looking for the love of your life at the bar.

880
00:40:47,822 --> 00:40:50,382
Speaker 2: So go and get one of the high stool tables

881
00:40:50,422 --> 00:40:50,861
Speaker 2: at the bar.

882
00:40:50,982 --> 00:40:52,941
Speaker 1: At the bar, and do not whip out your phone

883
00:40:52,942 --> 00:40:56,221
Speaker 1: and start doing the crossword or scrolling your Instagram. No,

884
00:40:56,342 --> 00:40:58,142
Speaker 1: you need to just keep the phone in your bag,

885
00:40:58,261 --> 00:40:59,902
Speaker 1: sit at the bar and talk to people.

886
00:41:00,142 --> 00:41:03,702
Speaker 2: Sit at the bar September has made such a splash, girls,

887
00:41:03,982 --> 00:41:04,422
Speaker 2: then I'm.

888
00:41:04,261 --> 00:41:06,181
Speaker 1: Going to give you some more places for you to.

889
00:41:06,181 --> 00:41:08,022
Speaker 4: Go and enjoy yourself.

890
00:41:08,181 --> 00:41:11,542
Speaker 2: Get off those dating apps and sid as these bars instead.

891
00:41:11,942 --> 00:41:13,821
Speaker 1: So She goes on to recommend a few New York

892
00:41:13,822 --> 00:41:16,302
Speaker 1: bars that she says that single people looking to mingle

893
00:41:16,342 --> 00:41:18,462
Speaker 1: should be sitting up. But the reason I thought this

894
00:41:18,502 --> 00:41:21,781
Speaker 1: is really interesting is because over the weekend I met

895
00:41:21,822 --> 00:41:26,542
Speaker 1: two couples who had both met through striking up conversation.

896
00:41:27,261 --> 00:41:30,702
Speaker 1: The first couple met at a pub, a Sydney pub,

897
00:41:31,022 --> 00:41:34,062
Speaker 1: and the second met at a New York City cafe.

898
00:41:34,862 --> 00:41:37,821
Speaker 1: And the crucial thing about both these couples is that

899
00:41:37,862 --> 00:41:41,181
Speaker 1: they met in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, Okay, And that's

900
00:41:41,221 --> 00:41:44,301
Speaker 1: crucial because both couples said that they didn't think that

901
00:41:44,342 --> 00:41:46,942
Speaker 1: they could meet this way now. And I have a

902
00:41:46,982 --> 00:41:49,302
Speaker 1: theory for why this is. And the theory is phones.

903
00:41:49,701 --> 00:41:52,822
Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen, that's the exact year that the majority

904
00:41:52,822 --> 00:41:56,981
Speaker 1: of adult Australians gained a smartphone, and ever since then,

905
00:41:57,462 --> 00:41:59,701
Speaker 1: we've just been scrolling and we don't look up, and

906
00:41:59,701 --> 00:42:02,381
Speaker 1: we don't talk to people. And Tinder this is also

907
00:42:02,422 --> 00:42:05,262
Speaker 1: going to support my case here. It launched in twenty twelve,

908
00:42:05,382 --> 00:42:08,502
Speaker 1: but in Australia it really gained a significant presence in

909
00:42:08,542 --> 00:42:12,582
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, and so ever since then, we're not talking

910
00:42:12,582 --> 00:42:15,301
Speaker 1: to people in cafes and bars. But my question is,

911
00:42:15,382 --> 00:42:16,902
Speaker 1: what would you do if someone came up to you

912
00:42:16,942 --> 00:42:18,822
Speaker 1: in a cafe or bar, doesn't have to be romantic,

913
00:42:18,902 --> 00:42:21,062
Speaker 1: but came up to you and started talking to you.

914
00:42:21,102 --> 00:42:24,422
Speaker 2: Holly, It's really interesting because I think this does still

915
00:42:24,542 --> 00:42:28,821
Speaker 2: happen a little bit in certain kind of places, right, So, like,

916
00:42:28,862 --> 00:42:30,821
Speaker 2: I do talk to people in cafes and bars a

917
00:42:30,822 --> 00:42:32,782
Speaker 2: little bit, but they're not trying to pick me up, clearly.

918
00:42:33,622 --> 00:42:36,462
Speaker 2: And when I was young and more on the market,

919
00:42:36,542 --> 00:42:38,502
Speaker 2: she said, if I might still be just a little bit,

920
00:42:38,822 --> 00:42:41,382
Speaker 2: what percentage of me might still be on the market

921
00:42:41,462 --> 00:42:47,702
Speaker 2: to be convinced. You used to hate it when guys

922
00:42:47,701 --> 00:42:49,462
Speaker 2: came over and interrupted you if you were with your

923
00:42:49,502 --> 00:42:52,421
Speaker 2: friends or whatever. Didn't you like that unless they were

924
00:42:52,422 --> 00:42:55,221
Speaker 2: really hot. But you'd be kind of like, oh, I'm

925
00:42:55,261 --> 00:42:57,542
Speaker 2: just trying to talk to my and I can't believe

926
00:42:57,542 --> 00:42:59,502
Speaker 2: you're here. But then that whole idea of being at

927
00:42:59,502 --> 00:43:01,501
Speaker 2: the bar and trying to be there at the same

928
00:43:01,542 --> 00:43:05,462
Speaker 2: time as someone that you find attractive and striking up conversation.

929
00:43:05,062 --> 00:43:05,982
Speaker 5: Like that was great.

930
00:43:06,102 --> 00:43:08,942
Speaker 2: That gave you the whole adrenaline, and then you'd be

931
00:43:08,982 --> 00:43:10,821
Speaker 2: looking at each other across the bar the rest of

932
00:43:10,822 --> 00:43:11,142
Speaker 2: the day.

933
00:43:11,261 --> 00:43:13,861
Speaker 3: See, the thing about this elder influencer is I just

934
00:43:13,902 --> 00:43:14,181
Speaker 3: want to.

935
00:43:14,181 --> 00:43:16,102
Speaker 4: Say I could sit at the bar all day. I

936
00:43:16,142 --> 00:43:18,741
Speaker 4: could do my sit at the bar September. Every day

937
00:43:18,741 --> 00:43:19,382
Speaker 4: of September.

938
00:43:19,741 --> 00:43:20,382
Speaker 3: No one's coming.

939
00:43:20,422 --> 00:43:21,261
Speaker 5: I don't think that's true.

940
00:43:21,342 --> 00:43:23,062
Speaker 4: No, no one's coming. And I'm not saying this is

941
00:43:23,102 --> 00:43:25,822
Speaker 4: some kind of self deprecating thing. It's like the social

942
00:43:25,862 --> 00:43:29,221
Speaker 4: contract has been broken. The social contract no longer says

943
00:43:29,221 --> 00:43:30,142
Speaker 4: that it's appropriate.

944
00:43:30,382 --> 00:43:34,502
Speaker 2: So your friends who are like around the thirties, early thirties,

945
00:43:35,221 --> 00:43:37,941
Speaker 2: they are not talking to strangers in bars, whether they're

946
00:43:37,982 --> 00:43:38,582
Speaker 2: single or not.

947
00:43:38,862 --> 00:43:42,661
Speaker 4: No, and no one I know who is kind of

948
00:43:42,701 --> 00:43:45,942
Speaker 4: about to get married. I've got a few friends who

949
00:43:45,982 --> 00:43:49,062
Speaker 4: are at that stage or are married.

950
00:43:50,302 --> 00:43:52,422
Speaker 3: None of them met at a bar or a club.

951
00:43:52,502 --> 00:43:55,422
Speaker 1: I think that social contract point is largely true. But

952
00:43:55,542 --> 00:43:58,181
Speaker 1: I think what the older influencer is stressing is that

953
00:43:58,221 --> 00:44:00,821
Speaker 1: you need to sit at the bar. I'm wondering if

954
00:44:00,822 --> 00:44:03,301
Speaker 1: that's a little bit of a caveat to the contract,

955
00:44:03,422 --> 00:44:07,542
Speaker 1: because those bar stools are designed to strike up conversation,

956
00:44:07,582 --> 00:44:08,182
Speaker 1: and now you're.

957
00:44:08,062 --> 00:44:11,181
Speaker 2: On your own, that's the striker. So it is a

958
00:44:11,181 --> 00:44:13,221
Speaker 2: bit different from just being at the bar and ordering

959
00:44:13,261 --> 00:44:16,622
Speaker 2: a drink. It's like in every movie set in New York,

960
00:44:16,661 --> 00:44:18,382
Speaker 2: they'll be like, send that beautiful.

961
00:44:18,022 --> 00:44:19,301
Speaker 5: Lady a drink down at the bar.

962
00:44:20,462 --> 00:44:23,742
Speaker 2: I remember, But if you're sitting at the bar by yourself,

963
00:44:23,741 --> 00:44:26,822
Speaker 2: you are kind of saying I want to talk to someone.

964
00:44:27,062 --> 00:44:29,742
Speaker 4: That's the thing is that I remember the signal being

965
00:44:29,822 --> 00:44:32,062
Speaker 4: like when it was say twenty thirteen, and I reckon,

966
00:44:32,062 --> 00:44:34,261
Speaker 4: that's the last time someone came up to me in

967
00:44:34,302 --> 00:44:37,022
Speaker 4: a pub just wanted to get to know you and

968
00:44:37,062 --> 00:44:39,622
Speaker 4: chatted to you, and it was all lovely. But there

969
00:44:39,701 --> 00:44:41,741
Speaker 4: used to be a signal which was even like if

970
00:44:41,781 --> 00:44:43,701
Speaker 4: I was out with a bunch of friends and we're

971
00:44:43,741 --> 00:44:46,941
Speaker 4: like clubbing or whatever, if you went to the bar

972
00:44:47,062 --> 00:44:50,102
Speaker 4: on your own, or even like just you and a friend, like,

973
00:44:50,261 --> 00:44:52,622
Speaker 4: there were certain signals that you would give other people

974
00:44:52,622 --> 00:44:55,382
Speaker 4: in the room that you were open to like talking

975
00:44:55,382 --> 00:44:58,341
Speaker 4: to someone. But now I'm not even sure what those

976
00:44:59,181 --> 00:45:03,262
Speaker 4: signals would be, because do you not look I wonder

977
00:45:03,261 --> 00:45:05,422
Speaker 4: if you'd look like a bit of a weirdo. Like

978
00:45:05,542 --> 00:45:07,902
Speaker 4: if I was sitting at a bar with my phone

979
00:45:07,902 --> 00:45:11,102
Speaker 4: put away, just making eye contact with people, I think

980
00:45:11,142 --> 00:45:13,782
Speaker 4: they'd be like that person's well.

981
00:45:13,661 --> 00:45:16,261
Speaker 2: Maybe they would wait, maybe someone and I a while

982
00:45:16,342 --> 00:45:19,181
Speaker 2: ago for mid I interviewed this woman, this American woman

983
00:45:19,221 --> 00:45:22,142
Speaker 2: called Leslie Morgan, who was quite amazing and after her divorce.

984
00:45:22,822 --> 00:45:24,582
Speaker 2: She was in her forties and after her divorce she

985
00:45:24,622 --> 00:45:27,622
Speaker 2: decided she wanted to meet men, try men on basically

986
00:45:27,661 --> 00:45:28,902
Speaker 2: was her thing. She said, I'm going to date like

987
00:45:28,902 --> 00:45:31,502
Speaker 2: a divorce mandates. I'm not looking for a husband. I'm

988
00:45:31,502 --> 00:45:33,701
Speaker 2: going to try on some different guys as who happens.

989
00:45:33,982 --> 00:45:37,942
Speaker 2: And she said, suddenly she realized there were men everywhere.

990
00:45:38,062 --> 00:45:40,221
Speaker 2: There are men everywhere. You know that, the men at

991
00:45:40,221 --> 00:45:41,422
Speaker 2: the car wash, the men at the pub, the room

992
00:45:41,422 --> 00:45:44,502
Speaker 2: of the airport. That you have to be prepared to

993
00:45:44,622 --> 00:45:47,942
Speaker 2: make a tid of yourself to start conversations with those.

994
00:45:47,741 --> 00:45:49,462
Speaker 3: Peace, which I think most people are not prepared.

995
00:45:49,542 --> 00:45:52,701
Speaker 2: Yes, So she said airports are particularly good for this

996
00:45:52,741 --> 00:45:55,781
Speaker 2: because lots of business travel, lots of solo people. There's

997
00:45:55,862 --> 00:45:58,382
Speaker 2: an immediate inn of like, oh can you believe the

998
00:45:58,382 --> 00:45:59,102
Speaker 2: planes delayed?

999
00:45:59,142 --> 00:46:01,022
Speaker 5: Or where are you going or whatever? She said, that

1000
00:46:01,102 --> 00:46:01,901
Speaker 5: was great, Sod.

1001
00:46:01,942 --> 00:46:04,622
Speaker 2: You have to talk yourself into being a confident enough

1002
00:46:04,661 --> 00:46:07,982
Speaker 2: place that sometimes you're going to strike out. Sometimes somebody

1003
00:46:08,022 --> 00:46:09,782
Speaker 2: is going to say, as you just said, Jesse, they

1004
00:46:09,862 --> 00:46:11,982
Speaker 2: might think there's something wrong with me. Some people are

1005
00:46:11,982 --> 00:46:14,702
Speaker 2: going to think that, but a surprising number of people,

1006
00:46:14,781 --> 00:46:17,382
Speaker 2: she said, would be like, Oh, somebody's talking to me,

1007
00:46:17,542 --> 00:46:20,661
Speaker 2: and they would quite enjoy it. I wonder if the

1008
00:46:20,781 --> 00:46:23,341
Speaker 2: reason why, if indeed it has taken off this sit

1009
00:46:23,382 --> 00:46:26,461
Speaker 2: at the bar September, is because in the same way

1010
00:46:26,462 --> 00:46:29,262
Speaker 2: that we're all feeling sick about our phones about other things,

1011
00:46:30,142 --> 00:46:31,622
Speaker 2: we're also feeling.

1012
00:46:31,302 --> 00:46:33,022
Speaker 5: Sick about that part of it.

1013
00:46:33,142 --> 00:46:35,181
Speaker 2: The meeting people on apps have been we talk about

1014
00:46:35,181 --> 00:46:37,941
Speaker 2: it all the time, is not necessarily going that great

1015
00:46:37,982 --> 00:46:40,781
Speaker 2: for everybody. It isn't great for all kinds of people

1016
00:46:40,822 --> 00:46:43,382
Speaker 2: self esteem, it doesn't suit certain types of personalities, It

1017
00:46:43,542 --> 00:46:47,182
Speaker 2: privileges some kinds of attraction over others. And so maybe

1018
00:46:47,221 --> 00:46:49,701
Speaker 2: people have been dying to sit at bars again and

1019
00:46:49,741 --> 00:46:50,741
Speaker 2: talk to people I don't know.

1020
00:46:50,822 --> 00:46:53,542
Speaker 1: And let's boarden it out. So we have mostly talked

1021
00:46:53,582 --> 00:46:56,781
Speaker 1: about meeting people romantically here, but I'm wondering if we

1022
00:46:56,982 --> 00:46:58,781
Speaker 1: all need to be making more of an effort to

1023
00:46:58,781 --> 00:47:03,062
Speaker 1: be receptive to everyday conversation with people in bars and cafes.

1024
00:47:03,261 --> 00:47:06,062
Speaker 1: And while we're waiting for our coffee, an elderly man

1025
00:47:06,102 --> 00:47:07,422
Speaker 1: came up to me while I was waiting for my

1026
00:47:07,422 --> 00:47:10,781
Speaker 1: coffee the other day and I was weird wearing a sweatshirt,

1027
00:47:11,022 --> 00:47:14,221
Speaker 1: which provokes some conversation from him, And at first I

1028
00:47:14,302 --> 00:47:16,542
Speaker 1: was kind of annoyed, but then I thought to myself,

1029
00:47:16,582 --> 00:47:19,022
Speaker 1: I'm literally standing here waiting for my coffee. I'm not

1030
00:47:19,142 --> 00:47:23,381
Speaker 1: doing anything. We'll discuss politics with this man who wants

1031
00:47:23,422 --> 00:47:25,582
Speaker 1: to talk about politics with me. And then I did

1032
00:47:25,661 --> 00:47:28,781
Speaker 1: and we disagreed, but it was actually quite fun, and

1033
00:47:28,822 --> 00:47:30,582
Speaker 1: I walked away with a little bit of a spring

1034
00:47:30,622 --> 00:47:32,661
Speaker 1: in my step because I'd had a human interaction.

1035
00:47:32,781 --> 00:47:34,301
Speaker 2: Maybe we're all firsting for that.

1036
00:47:34,422 --> 00:47:35,582
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting too.

1037
00:47:35,622 --> 00:47:38,301
Speaker 4: I was reading there's this book out called Labor of

1038
00:47:38,302 --> 00:47:42,261
Speaker 4: Love by Moira Weigel, and she's written about how there

1039
00:47:42,261 --> 00:47:46,102
Speaker 4: has always been a moral panic and almost a nihilism

1040
00:47:46,142 --> 00:47:48,181
Speaker 4: about the state of dating. There is no time in

1041
00:47:48,221 --> 00:47:50,342
Speaker 4: all of human history where people have looked around and

1042
00:47:50,382 --> 00:47:52,701
Speaker 4: gone dating's going really well for us, Like that just

1043
00:47:52,741 --> 00:47:53,342
Speaker 4: never happens.

1044
00:47:53,462 --> 00:47:53,901
Speaker 5: It's true.

1045
00:47:54,181 --> 00:47:57,342
Speaker 2: That's so true because if you think about way pre apps,

1046
00:47:57,382 --> 00:47:59,262
Speaker 2: think about the whole premise of sex and the city,

1047
00:47:59,261 --> 00:48:01,861
Speaker 2: it is all the good guys like And that was

1048
00:48:01,902 --> 00:48:02,941
Speaker 2: way before app day.

1049
00:48:02,982 --> 00:48:06,422
Speaker 1: And Karen was sitting at bars, and so what this

1050
00:48:06,502 --> 00:48:10,261
Speaker 1: book says is the history of love is inextricably intertwined

1051
00:48:10,582 --> 00:48:11,982
Speaker 1: with the history of technology.

1052
00:48:12,022 --> 00:48:14,982
Speaker 4: Those two things just like inform each other. So the

1053
00:48:14,982 --> 00:48:17,701
Speaker 4: invention of the car, the invention of the telephone, like

1054
00:48:17,701 --> 00:48:19,462
Speaker 4: this just changed the way that we relate.

1055
00:48:19,942 --> 00:48:22,982
Speaker 3: And the idea that romance.

1056
00:48:22,542 --> 00:48:26,462
Speaker 4: Is this spontaneous chance thing that can be found as

1057
00:48:26,502 --> 00:48:29,102
Speaker 4: you walk down the street is a modern invention that

1058
00:48:29,261 --> 00:48:32,142
Speaker 4: is like one hundred maybe two hundred years old. It's

1059
00:48:32,142 --> 00:48:35,582
Speaker 4: sex in the city, right, that he or she could just.

1060
00:48:36,142 --> 00:48:38,702
Speaker 3: Pop up in your life to them in the street

1061
00:48:38,781 --> 00:48:39,261
Speaker 3: in the red.

1062
00:48:39,542 --> 00:48:43,502
Speaker 4: Yes, before that, it was incredibly calculating. It was like

1063
00:48:43,862 --> 00:48:46,221
Speaker 4: how much money does this because of gender, roles and

1064
00:48:46,261 --> 00:48:49,901
Speaker 4: everything does this guy next door have? Your family was involved,

1065
00:48:50,142 --> 00:48:53,941
Speaker 4: you were working out status, class, wealth, dowry, all of that.

1066
00:48:54,661 --> 00:48:58,181
Speaker 4: And her argument is kind of we're back to the calculating,

1067
00:48:58,582 --> 00:49:01,661
Speaker 4: like we've taken away the spontaneity and the chance that

1068
00:49:02,062 --> 00:49:06,062
Speaker 4: sort of doesn't fit anymore, and we're back to using

1069
00:49:06,582 --> 00:49:09,102
Speaker 4: technology to go, all right, what exactly do I want?

1070
00:49:09,102 --> 00:49:10,462
Speaker 3: How exact clear am I going to find it?

1071
00:49:10,542 --> 00:49:14,821
Speaker 2: But we that's why we've I think idolized and loved

1072
00:49:14,862 --> 00:49:17,781
Speaker 2: the idea of Sarah diipitous meetings, because it then it

1073
00:49:17,822 --> 00:49:19,741
Speaker 2: seems like this was meant to be, you know what

1074
00:49:19,781 --> 00:49:21,341
Speaker 2: I mean, Like you could tell a story that you

1075
00:49:21,382 --> 00:49:23,301
Speaker 2: have done about Like if I hadn't have walked into

1076
00:49:23,302 --> 00:49:25,142
Speaker 2: that office on that day and met No Da Da

1077
00:49:25,221 --> 00:49:26,821
Speaker 2: Da Da, then I wouldn't have met this guy, and

1078
00:49:26,822 --> 00:49:28,382
Speaker 2: I wouldn't now have my kid. I wouldn't I be

1079
00:49:28,422 --> 00:49:32,821
Speaker 2: pregnant with twins, thanks very much, And like you can

1080
00:49:32,862 --> 00:49:34,701
Speaker 2: tell that if I hadn't walked into that bar, if

1081
00:49:34,741 --> 00:49:37,741
Speaker 2: I hadn't, Like, it's a nice story for us all

1082
00:49:37,781 --> 00:49:40,981
Speaker 2: to noodle on and be Like, clearly the universe wanted

1083
00:49:40,982 --> 00:49:43,341
Speaker 2: to bring us together. It's harder to tell yourself that

1084
00:49:43,422 --> 00:49:44,942
Speaker 2: story about a dating app, but you're not.

1085
00:49:44,982 --> 00:49:45,661
Speaker 5: I don't mean that.

1086
00:49:46,142 --> 00:49:49,142
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that because I think there's anything true

1087
00:49:49,181 --> 00:49:52,301
Speaker 2: about the serendipity of that. But I think we like it,

1088
00:49:52,342 --> 00:49:55,022
Speaker 2: don't we. Whereas it feels like, well, I swiped and

1089
00:49:55,062 --> 00:49:55,701
Speaker 2: they swiped.

1090
00:49:55,902 --> 00:49:57,462
Speaker 3: I think we're feeling nostalgic for it.

1091
00:49:57,542 --> 00:49:59,741
Speaker 1: Well, and because it is harder than before, Like I

1092
00:49:59,781 --> 00:50:02,422
Speaker 1: take the moral panic point, but it does feel harder

1093
00:50:02,462 --> 00:50:05,022
Speaker 1: than it felt even ten years ago before the majority

1094
00:50:05,022 --> 00:50:07,821
Speaker 1: of Australians had a smartphone, and it reminds me that

1095
00:50:07,862 --> 00:50:10,062
Speaker 1: my parents tell me a story about Sydney in the

1096
00:50:10,102 --> 00:50:12,341
Speaker 1: sixties and they used to go to a nightclub on

1097
00:50:12,382 --> 00:50:14,301
Speaker 1: the Lower north Shore of Sydney, which is funny if

1098
00:50:14,302 --> 00:50:17,062
Speaker 1: anyone lives in Sydney, how unlikely that is. That was

1099
00:50:17,062 --> 00:50:20,102
Speaker 1: apparently very hip, and you'd go into this nightclub and

1100
00:50:20,142 --> 00:50:23,102
Speaker 1: on every table there was a phone and you could

1101
00:50:23,142 --> 00:50:25,302
Speaker 1: call other tables.

1102
00:50:25,342 --> 00:50:28,781
Speaker 3: So phone, Oh, they should bring in view.

1103
00:50:28,822 --> 00:50:31,142
Speaker 1: You can't tell me that that's not a good way

1104
00:50:31,181 --> 00:50:33,142
Speaker 1: of meeting people. They should bring that back.

1105
00:50:34,462 --> 00:50:35,941
Speaker 2: Going back to what I said at the beginning about

1106
00:50:35,942 --> 00:50:39,142
Speaker 2: how now we've kind of culturally very much digested that,

1107
00:50:39,302 --> 00:50:42,701
Speaker 2: particularly for guys to approach women in bars is a

1108
00:50:42,741 --> 00:50:45,502
Speaker 2: bit icky and creepy. It's kind of like we've kind

1109
00:50:45,502 --> 00:50:48,542
Speaker 2: of metabolized that, right. I wonder if there's any such

1110
00:50:48,622 --> 00:50:51,781
Speaker 2: thing as a safe bet of how to do it.

1111
00:50:51,822 --> 00:50:52,381
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.

1112
00:50:52,462 --> 00:50:55,502
Speaker 2: Like we used to talk about cheesy chat up lines,

1113
00:50:55,542 --> 00:50:59,582
Speaker 2: and I wonder if any out louders maybe have stories

1114
00:50:59,661 --> 00:51:03,381
Speaker 2: of how they started talking to somebody or I hate

1115
00:51:03,382 --> 00:51:06,701
Speaker 2: to say the line, but the conversation started that doesn't

1116
00:51:06,741 --> 00:51:08,182
Speaker 2: feel gross.

1117
00:51:08,181 --> 00:51:09,982
Speaker 5: I'd love to hear in twenty twenty five Vibe.

1118
00:51:10,701 --> 00:51:12,942
Speaker 2: Out Louders, a massive thank you to all of you

1119
00:51:13,022 --> 00:51:15,422
Speaker 2: for being here with us on this Monday. We appreciate

1120
00:51:15,502 --> 00:51:17,701
Speaker 2: you very much, as we do our team for helping

1121
00:51:17,741 --> 00:51:20,422
Speaker 2: us put it together. Do not forget that if you

1122
00:51:20,502 --> 00:51:23,181
Speaker 2: want to watch us on YouTube and slowly see Jesse

1123
00:51:23,382 --> 00:51:29,661
Speaker 2: expanding over time and maybe not only Jesse back, we

1124
00:51:29,741 --> 00:51:32,942
Speaker 2: are on YouTube and you can see us there and

1125
00:51:32,982 --> 00:51:34,661
Speaker 2: watch our show there whenever you want to.

1126
00:51:35,062 --> 00:51:39,102
Speaker 4: And we got so much feedback about last Wednesday's segment

1127
00:51:39,342 --> 00:51:41,781
Speaker 4: where we spoke about office attire. For some reason, we

1128
00:51:41,822 --> 00:51:43,781
Speaker 4: asked the out Louders if we had dressed appropriately for

1129
00:51:43,822 --> 00:51:44,142
Speaker 4: the office.

1130
00:51:44,142 --> 00:51:45,382
Speaker 3: They all said no. When I was like, why do

1131
00:51:45,502 --> 00:51:45,902
Speaker 3: we ask you?

1132
00:51:46,062 --> 00:51:47,102
Speaker 2: We were wearing jeans?

1133
00:51:47,862 --> 00:51:50,702
Speaker 3: No, were liking no, you all are terrible.

1134
00:51:51,781 --> 00:51:54,701
Speaker 2: They said, there's a few passecs. Oh, I thought this

1135
00:51:54,862 --> 00:51:57,741
Speaker 2: was another video about Jesse not hawning her clothes.

1136
00:51:59,142 --> 00:52:00,422
Speaker 3: Did I in my clothes?

1137
00:52:01,221 --> 00:52:04,181
Speaker 4: We discussed the rules of how to dress and how

1138
00:52:04,221 --> 00:52:08,542
Speaker 4: corporate wear is back. There's apparently new rules about office wear. Also,

1139
00:52:08,661 --> 00:52:11,582
Speaker 4: Amelia has a fear about why we should never aim

1140
00:52:11,902 --> 00:52:15,582
Speaker 4: for feeling fully recharged, which good because I'm not feeling

1141
00:52:15,582 --> 00:52:18,461
Speaker 4: fully recharged to We'll pop a link in the show

1142
00:52:18,502 --> 00:52:20,382
Speaker 4: note goodbye bye.

1143
00:52:21,542 --> 00:52:24,382
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you

1144
00:52:24,582 --> 00:52:27,422
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

1145
00:52:27,462 --> 00:52:29,861
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.

1146
00:52:30,062 --> 00:52:31,942
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description