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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and borders that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill,

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Speaker 1: your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura Brodnick and I'm

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Speaker 1: m Burnham. And on today's show, is the world's most

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Speaker 1: famous family, the Kadashians, losing their relevancy. It's a hot topic,

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Speaker 1: and there has been a very recent development that I

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Speaker 1: think is kind of giving us the answer. So we're

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Speaker 1: going to get into that, but first.

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Speaker 2: But first, Netflix have released a first look at the

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Speaker 2: next and final season of Stranger Things. They released a

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Speaker 2: mini behind the scenes video of the making of the

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Speaker 2: final season. I think they said in the video that

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Speaker 2: they're halfway through production. The video included a lot of

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Speaker 2: visuals and vox pops from the original cast, as well

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Speaker 2: as some new members of the cast.

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Speaker 3: We're about halfway through filming now and it's exciting, so

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Speaker 3: much going on. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to Stranger Things

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Speaker 3: Season five.

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Speaker 1: Day one on Stranger Things five.

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Speaker 2: So I started when I was ten, I'm now turning

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Speaker 2: twenty years old.

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Speaker 1: It feels very weird.

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Speaker 2: What I loved about the whole video was that you

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Speaker 2: saw a lot of clips which I'm hoping are gonna

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Speaker 2: make it in the final cut, of a lot of

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Speaker 2: the characters together, because do you remember the last few seasons,

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Speaker 2: It's like a lot of them were separated throughout, say, because.

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Speaker 1: You always had to have those two different plot points

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Speaker 1: moving away from each other. In the last season, they

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Speaker 1: were separated by like a big chunk of the country.

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Speaker 1: And those final scenes them coming back together and that

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Speaker 1: moment where they walked out and saw the upside down

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Speaker 1: like flowing into the real world. I mean, that is storytelling.

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Speaker 1: It's such that is cinematography retelling.

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Speaker 2: And I think the upside Down is gonna be a

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Speaker 2: huge part of this final season because in the behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes video, it all just looked like the upside down,

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Speaker 2: Like there was like blood and like everything was it

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Speaker 2: looked really scary. Interestingly, though there weren't any shots in

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Speaker 2: the BTS video of Millie Bobby Brown with other cast members.

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Speaker 1: She's definitely in it.

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Speaker 2: Though she's definitely in it, I know that, and she's

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Speaker 2: talked extensively about how she's been doing it for like

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Speaker 2: ten years now. I actually don't know how they're going

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Speaker 2: to make these kids look like they're still in school.

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Speaker 2: They are all in their twenties now. Yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have a feeling that she might be a bit

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Speaker 2: off it, Like, just from the recent interview she's done,

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Speaker 2: I feel like she's a bit over it. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: it's the last season because first, I don't think they

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Speaker 2: could pull off another season of them pretending they're in

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Speaker 2: high school, especially because this whole series is meant to

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Speaker 2: take place within just a few years and they've grown

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Speaker 2: so much. Because I think they release every season like

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Speaker 2: every two or three years. But I have a feeling

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Speaker 2: she's going to be a bit solo in this next season.

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Speaker 2: I think she's gonna have a major part, but I

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Speaker 2: don't think she's going to be with all of them

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Speaker 2: together like the rest of it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that doesn't make sense, but where the story's going.

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Speaker 2: The release date hasn't been announced yet, but season five

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Speaker 2: is expected to come out sometime next year. We will

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Speaker 2: definitely be talking about on the spill. I kind of

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Speaker 2: want to do the honest review, Oh will we.

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Speaker 1: Will welcome back to season five?

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Speaker 2: Last year, I mean a commitment to myself that I

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Speaker 2: was going to slow down, lying to myself and being

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Speaker 2: busy and working is my happy plate.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I hate how much I have to and be

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Speaker 1: on God and not do anything that might ever give

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Speaker 1: a glimmer that there's hope. Season five, Season five. So

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Speaker 1: now we're well into season five of The Kardashians, The

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Speaker 1: Kardashian Jenna Families of doco series on Hulu and Disney

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Speaker 1: Plus in Australia, and something feels a little off.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about this a few times. I think they're

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Speaker 2: just really boring.

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Speaker 1: I think there's always this conversation bubbling away, and it

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Speaker 1: has really heightened in the last couple of months. I

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Speaker 1: want a cheating.

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Speaker 2: Scandal, I want a new pregnancy, I want all these

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Speaker 2: things that they can't provide for me.

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Speaker 1: It's not even that there's so many conversations at the

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Speaker 1: moment of like have the Kardashians lost their relevancy or

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Speaker 1: people saying that they have that they're famous slipping that

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Speaker 1: they can't make those cultural moments anymore. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things where like, some of it's

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Speaker 1: true and some of it's not. So I think one

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Speaker 1: interesting thing is that they're always going to be incredibly

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Speaker 1: famous and incredibly influential. Like, I think they've reached that

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Speaker 1: stage now, and there's also so many of them, so

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Speaker 1: we've got to think too, that's a very impenetrable brand,

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Speaker 1: because if you're relying on one person, that person can

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Speaker 1: like disappear from the spotlight and their brand can diminish.

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Speaker 1: But because there's so many of them and they're in

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Speaker 1: so many different areas and they're wrapped up in so

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Speaker 1: many other famous people now that we're very hard for

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Speaker 1: that entire brand to fall away. So I think they're

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Speaker 1: always can be famous. It's more the discussions around their

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Speaker 1: fame and the impact of it that I do think

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Speaker 1: is changing a little bit at the moment in.

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Speaker 2: What way because all the discussions around the Kardashian there's

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Speaker 2: always when they're dating someone new or they're starting something big.

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Speaker 2: I thought that with Kim Kardashian doing her new movie,

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Speaker 2: we'd be hearing about them more, but it feels like

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Speaker 2: we're not.

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Speaker 1: Well, It's interesting because I think Kim Kardashian still has

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Speaker 1: a really high level of relevancy, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: like it's watching the new season of the Kardashians. I

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Speaker 1: think it's making all of this come to light, and

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Speaker 1: because that is meant to be such a behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes fly on the wall look at their lives, and

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Speaker 1: it's meant to sort of bring up all of these

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Speaker 1: new conversations and like place their fame on a different

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Speaker 1: level like it has in the past, where you get

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Speaker 1: a behind the scenes of like the Metgala, or a

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes of some big trauma that's happening, or

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Speaker 1: you know, the cameras are there for this huge cultural

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Speaker 1: moment of like Chloe interest in having their breakup that

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Speaker 1: was such a huge story in the media when it

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Speaker 1: happened to them, you're scene behind the scenes a little

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Speaker 1: bit later. But this season it's like they've reverted to

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Speaker 1: these very old school tricks of how to make a

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Speaker 1: reality show that previous to this, their fame had surpassed

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Speaker 1: in many ways. So what's interesting here is that they

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Speaker 1: were on Keeping Up with the Kardashians for fourteen years,

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Speaker 1: but there were twenty seasons. Yeah, it's important to note that,

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Speaker 1: and they were doing so many episodes per season that

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Speaker 1: a lot of it did follow their lives in terms

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Speaker 1: of like going on events, always going on a family trip,

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes of these big red carpets, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of it was their storyline, so weddings were a

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Speaker 1: huge thing at that point of time. Then when they

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Speaker 1: started to have kids, but also to just make up

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Speaker 1: the DNA of a reality show, they had to have

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Speaker 1: a lot of stage things that used to lie very

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Speaker 1: heavily on pranks. Those were dark times. Sot of whole

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Speaker 1: episodes that would just prank each other. Oh, what do

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Speaker 1: you think it is?

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Speaker 3: It's me Dodd Greens.

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Speaker 1: And are such acted apt? Yes like that, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: There was one whole thing where they were like taking

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Speaker 1: Kim's boyfriend's dog to get like neuted, and then there

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Speaker 1: was like a back and forth where they should or not,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, this is a really dark day

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Speaker 1: for TV and all these side hustles, and towards the

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Speaker 1: end of keeping Up with the Kardashians, when they broke

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Speaker 1: the fourth wall and started talking about who didn't want

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Speaker 1: to film and who did. That's when it took on

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Speaker 1: this new conversation of them like really peddling hard behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes to come up with enough content to really

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Speaker 1: fill this show and keep it on the air. So

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Speaker 1: when they announced they were finishing the show, it made sense.

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Speaker 1: And then when they said they were coming up with

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Speaker 1: the Kardashians their new show, the whole idea was that

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Speaker 1: they were going to be more in charge of the content.

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Speaker 1: It was going to be more of a docuseriies, just

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Speaker 1: capturing moments of their life, rather than kind of like

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Speaker 1: a stage reality show that it had become.

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Speaker 2: I also feel like with the Culashians in particular, since

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Speaker 2: now they've all had kids and they're kind of in

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Speaker 2: a stage of life that I don't think is properly

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Speaker 2: reflected in Hollywood, where every time a woman is seen

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Speaker 2: like having kids, it's like she's kind of done, Like

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Speaker 2: we don't want to hear about her life like she's done.

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Speaker 2: It's also really icky to talk about people with kids

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Speaker 2: because the kids are always there in the picture, so

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Speaker 2: it feels really weird. Especially when she was dating Pete Davidson.

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Speaker 2: I remember we probably like didn't hear as much as

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Speaker 2: we would have if she didn't have kids, just because

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Speaker 2: it gets really messy with like her divorce with Kanye

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Speaker 2: and like her kids being involved. And she would even

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Speaker 2: say on talk shows that she'll never talk bad about

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Speaker 2: Kanye because of her kids and like her relationships because

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Speaker 2: of her kid's and it's kind of a way of

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Speaker 2: like her telling like journalists and the press to like,

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Speaker 2: it's weird if you guys do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. I feel like it's not that they've

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Speaker 1: become less interesting. It's like, apart from Kim, in some cases,

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Speaker 1: as a family, they're so less willing to show parts

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Speaker 1: of their life on camera, and that has made the

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Speaker 1: TV series has really highlighted that because you think in

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Speaker 1: this new season of The Kardashians, there was a whole

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Speaker 1: episode dedicated to Maliko, who is like a friend of

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Speaker 1: the family that audience has best friends. Yeah, she's become

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Speaker 1: famous off that show, so people know her, but there

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Speaker 1: was this like set up series of her going to

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Speaker 1: a sperm bank and like them getting a tour of

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Speaker 1: it and stuff. It just felt one of those things

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Speaker 1: where like it felt very old school reality TV that

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Speaker 1: they still do now, but where you have like story

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Speaker 1: producers who will be like, well, these characters will go

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Speaker 1: off and do the storyline. These characters will go do

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Speaker 1: this storyline. It feels like the Kardashians have become that,

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Speaker 1: especially with Kendall and Kylie, who were really set up

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Speaker 1: to be like the next stage of the family. And

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Speaker 1: for a while there their fame was almost overshadowing their sisters,

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Speaker 1: but it's kind of petered off, like they're still very famous,

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Speaker 1: but very much like Kylie is a bit more behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes with her business, Kendall's very much like she

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Speaker 1: hasn't got a lot going on apart from the factive.

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Speaker 2: She even mentioned that the series starting where she's like, guys,

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Speaker 2: I'm not a boring person. She's like, I feel like

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Speaker 2: all I do is talk about like my anxiety, my horses,

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Speaker 2: like I'm a horse girl, but I'm not a boring person.

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Speaker 2: And it's so funny because everyone ran with the fact

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Speaker 2: that she said she wasn't a boring person, and they

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Speaker 2: were like, yes, you are.

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Speaker 1: I think you should experience it.

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Speaker 2: You always say I want to experience things, but I

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Speaker 2: don't think you actually want to experience things, because you

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Speaker 2: would experience it if you wanted to experience things.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. It's just interesting

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Speaker 1: with the two people in the family who've been famous

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Speaker 1: for the longest that they're the worst at fame, and

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Speaker 1: so what that means is that when they film for

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Speaker 1: the Kardashians, they have to have these really set up

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Speaker 1: things where it looks like they're going on like a

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Speaker 1: friend date and they both talk about being nervous. It's

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Speaker 1: so awkward. Yeah, I'm like, that's your sister. Why are

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Speaker 1: we having up these confessionals about I'm about to go

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Speaker 1: hang out with Kendall and I really like spending time

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Speaker 1: with her, and I hope it's going to go well.

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Speaker 1: And then it cuts.

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Speaker 2: It feels like they're on Love Island.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they go this thing where they act

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Speaker 1: like they don't know each other, and then there's this

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Speaker 1: big debrief of a confessional later on. I I also

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Speaker 1: think there was a moment recently where it was really

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Speaker 1: easy to tell that they had fallen back into these

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Speaker 1: old reality TV tricks, either because there was nothing in

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Speaker 1: their life that they felt comfortable showing, or they just

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Speaker 1: tried to figure out a way to generate some kind

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Speaker 1: of a talking point to put into the series that

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Speaker 1: people would want to watch, and there was nothing. Because

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Speaker 1: they went over to Christiana's house try and prank her

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Speaker 1: to like shave her. My god, yes, I remember that,

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Speaker 1: and then the dog, come, my god, I feel so

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Speaker 1: dumb talking about that.

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Speaker 2: The dog already had a haircut, already had a haircut.

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Speaker 2: Already had a haircut, so we can't shave it, and

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Speaker 2: that was the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: That should have been on the cutting room floor, like

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Speaker 1: that was scraping the bottom of the barrel. But I

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Speaker 1: think they were just like that. They just needed the cameo.

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Speaker 1: It looks like that's the only thing they had signed

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Speaker 1: off on filming, and so because it didn't work out,

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Speaker 1: there was still a certain amount they were contracted to

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Speaker 1: be in the show. And I think when people were

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Speaker 1: talking about their cultural relevancy fading, that's a really good

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Speaker 1: example that it could be true anyway. Coming up next,

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Speaker 1: there are more examples of how the kadashi In legacy

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Speaker 1: is slightly foundering. But there's also more to this story. Yes,

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Speaker 1: on this season, it's become very clear which scenes have

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Speaker 1: been manufactured because they have to get certain family members

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Speaker 1: in and which haven't. And I think it's just such

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Speaker 1: a stark difference. Also how fame has kind of changed

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Speaker 1: some of these women for the better in a way.

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Speaker 1: In terms of when you see Kim Kardashian and how

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Speaker 1: she talks to the camera or how she talks and

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Speaker 1: meetings or how she acts at events, you can see

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Speaker 1: that fame has made her like it's so strange, fame

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Speaker 1: has made her the person she was meant to be.

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Speaker 3: Like.

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Speaker 1: She seems almost like a better, stronger version of woman

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Speaker 1: that we met twenty something years ago because of where

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Speaker 1: she is now, and she seems so confident, Whereas then

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Speaker 1: you look at Chloe Kardashian and you're like, oh, fame

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Speaker 1: has made this woman's life so much worse a lot

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Speaker 1: of the way when we were first introduced to her

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Speaker 1: again over twenty years ago. And it's weird having so

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Speaker 1: much access to someone that makes you feel like you've

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Speaker 1: really seen this change in their personality. Is that she

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Speaker 1: used to be, I guess, so kind of upfront and

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Speaker 1: so funny, and she became this fan favorite. And now

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Speaker 1: every time the camera moves towards her and the car

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Speaker 1: Dashians and she has this moment to talk to the camera,

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Speaker 1: she only talks about like the stress and the anxiety

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Speaker 1: and why would I do this? And why would I

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Speaker 1: go here? And all that sort of stuff. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that isn't enticing TV to feel like you're

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Speaker 1: witnessing someone's downfall because of this fame that they've been

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Speaker 1: pushed into.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't even realize. I also feel like, as

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Speaker 2: you said, Kim Kardashian was born for fame, and she

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Speaker 2: stands alone in fame. Really, well, where's her other sisters?

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Speaker 2: Even if you watch the Kardashians and they're going to

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Speaker 2: events like by themselves, they are so stressed to do

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Speaker 2: something by themselves in public. I remember one season where

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Speaker 2: Kendall and Kylie were going to the met and Kylie

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Speaker 2: was just like sitting in the car because she didn't

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Speaker 2: want to walk out by herself, like waiting for Kendall

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Speaker 2: or waiting for like Jade and Smith to get.

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Speaker 1: There so she'll have someone to talk to, which I

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Speaker 1: guess is relatable going into those big events because it's

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Speaker 1: relatable with someone with social anxiety. Yeah, exactly. But then

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Speaker 1: there's those viral photos of her when she got into

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Speaker 1: the met gala, because there's never photos from inside, but

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Speaker 1: there are photos from her after she made that phone call,

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Speaker 1: and she's sitting at a table with like Ryan Reynolds

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Speaker 1: and Blake and they're all talking and happy, and she's

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Speaker 1: just looking off to the side so bored because she

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Speaker 1: just It's like when we're at pres events and we're

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Speaker 1: with people who are famous on TikTok. And it's so

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Speaker 1: kind of telling that when they're filming themselves at the

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Speaker 1: event or dinner or whatever at they can talk so

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Speaker 1: well into the camera and they're so engaging. But the

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Speaker 1: minute they have to put that down and talk to

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Speaker 1: the people in the room or the people sitting with them,

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Speaker 1: that's when they lose I guess, any kind of structure

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Speaker 1: and had not all of them, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: them just don't have those skills.

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Speaker 2: It's a very similar type of success as the Kardashians,

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Speaker 2: where they become famous, but just like in their bedroom

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Speaker 2: at home. Yeah, and it's only when they go to

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Speaker 2: the events they're like, oh no, I actually have to

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Speaker 2: like converse with all these other people who have become

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Speaker 2: famous in different ways exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I also think, like recently on The Kadashians, I

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Speaker 1: think this season has just been so telling. Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: because it's the first season where there hasn't been a

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Speaker 1: huge series of events in terms of like an engagement

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Speaker 1: or a wedding or a breakup or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: It's petering along, which is usually fine because you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people just want to watch them jet

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Speaker 1: over the world and stuff and them having family trips

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Speaker 1: has always been such a huge part of the fabric

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Speaker 1: of their shows, and that's why they have these big

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Speaker 1: family trips so they can have all of that content.

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Speaker 1: But on a recent one, it was so telling that

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Speaker 1: they were all so contracted to be there and they

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Speaker 1: saw it completely as work. And I think that's also

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Speaker 1: when you saw a bit of their relevance in pop

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Speaker 1: culture slip a little bit, because it's like they so

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Speaker 1: don't want to be in this situation that they can't

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Speaker 1: even fake it for the cameras. So they were going

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Speaker 1: to Aspen and Kylie Jenner's wait, I know on the plane,

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Speaker 1: she thinks the plane is like going to crash, so

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Speaker 1: she gets off. Everyone's like, you're going to.

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Speaker 2: Leave your whole family and let them die.

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Speaker 3: If you feel that and safe, you'll beg and pleading

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Speaker 3: cry for your family.

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Speaker 1: Why would she leave her sisters? So she got off.

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Speaker 1: Then they she does have a fear of flying, yes,

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Speaker 1: not taking away from that, but then she was trying

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Speaker 1: to get a different flight and stuff. But it wasn't

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Speaker 1: her getting off the plane or her being worried about

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Speaker 1: the plane that was the conversation. The conversation was what

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Speaker 1: the women said her sisters when she got off the plane,

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Speaker 1: being like, she gets out of everything. She's not taking

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Speaker 1: this seriously. We have to pick up the slack for her.

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Speaker 1: And what they're saying is we're all contracted to be

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Speaker 1: on this plane to go on this trip to film

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of content for the show, and her

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Speaker 1: getting out of it means that she's not meeting her

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Speaker 1: contractual obligations, and so now we have to pick up

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Speaker 1: the filming for her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, like pay her less.

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Speaker 1: Who cares? No, I know, But I just think if

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Speaker 1: they're struggling to pull this family trip together to try

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Speaker 1: and mimic these big viral family trips they've had in

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Speaker 1: the past, and the most they can muster is having

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Speaker 1: a conversation about Kylie not being there. Yeah, it does

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Speaker 1: kind of see like maybe they've played this storyline out

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Speaker 1: so many times they've got nowhere to go with it.

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Speaker 1: And I do think the show is still rating quite

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Speaker 1: well and people are watching it, so I don't even

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Speaker 1: think it's that, but I wonder if they're so aware

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Speaker 1: that it's not getting quite as many headlines around it

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Speaker 1: as it used to that viewers are kind of talking

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Speaker 1: about not being engaged because recently in Kim Kardashian traveled

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Speaker 1: to a very fancy wedding.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she went to the Ambani wedding in Mumbai, India.

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Speaker 2: The Amba are the tenth richest family in the world.

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Speaker 2: They're billionaires, they have so much wealth. The youngest son

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Speaker 2: in the family is getting married. He's also the last

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Speaker 2: one to get married. And we did talk about it

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Speaker 2: on the Spill a while ago because Rihanna performed for

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Speaker 2: their pre wedding, which is so funny because like fans

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Speaker 2: have been asking Rihanna for concerts and new music for

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Speaker 2: like years now, and she.

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Speaker 1: Just did this kind of guy to have a price.

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Speaker 2: She did this private performance. Katie Perry performed to them privately,

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Speaker 2: and their wedding happened over the weekend. It was like

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Speaker 2: a three day long affair. Chloe and Kim went and

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Speaker 2: they were the only ones that were providing anyone with

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Speaker 2: any kind of content about the wedding. The Ambanis are

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Speaker 2: very lavish and showing their wealth, but they're also billionaires,

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Speaker 2: so they are very particular about what they do show

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Speaker 2: to the public and they're very private in that sense.

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Speaker 2: So we didn't get a lot of content out of that,

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Speaker 2: and all the content we got out of it was

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Speaker 2: Kim Kardashian's Instagram stories.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she was really delivering, Like everyone wanted

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Speaker 1: to see photos from that wedding, and she was the

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Speaker 1: only one who was like consistently posting the whole time.

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Speaker 1: So thank you for that, Kim. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: really interesting that along one of the photos where you

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Speaker 1: can see the opulent background and her and Chloe and

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Speaker 1: these incredible outfits and Kim's like literally dripping with jewels

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Speaker 1: all over her body, and she said, don't worry, We're

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Speaker 1: filming all of this for the Kardashians, And I thought

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Speaker 1: that was so telling.

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Speaker 2: That's something like we would do to promote one of

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Speaker 2: our episodes.

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Speaker 1: Es, well, we're in like a time little premiere, like

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Speaker 1: don't worry guys, don't worry me on the episode.

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Speaker 2: Like the fact that Kimkardashian's using it, having to use

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Speaker 2: the saying marketing tactics that we use is like so telling.

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Speaker 2: As you said that they are very aware that no

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Speaker 2: one's really talking about this season as they used.

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Speaker 1: To, well exactly, and she's been open about that in

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Speaker 1: the past, like she has said that she goes through

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Speaker 1: and reads reviews for the season, and that's what people says. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she likes to have all the information. And there was

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Speaker 1: even one season of The Kardashians where they had different

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Speaker 1: headlines about the season and Kim not showing particular things

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Speaker 1: flash up on screen so she could react to it.

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Speaker 1: So I think she's very aware that people are saying

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Speaker 1: that the Kardashians are over and they don't have cultural

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Speaker 1: relevance anymore, and she's trying to say, like, you guys

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Speaker 1: love this intense behind the scenes stuff, and look how

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Speaker 1: much is coming to like future seasons. And it's kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting because, as we were saying at the top

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Speaker 1: of the episode, I don't think there's a world in

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Speaker 1: which the Kardashians won't be famous and powerful. But I

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Speaker 1: think if this season isn't any indicator of where their

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Speaker 1: overall brands are going and where this storytelling around their

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Speaker 1: family is going, which has always been their biggest asset

430
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Speaker 1: on top of anything else, I think the cultural relevance

431
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Speaker 1: they have is going to lessen over time, at least

432
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Speaker 1: for most of the family. Maybe Kim Kardashian is going

433
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Speaker 1: to break away more as a solo brand than she

434
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Speaker 1: already is now, but it's a hard thing to sustain.

435
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Speaker 1: I think also, it doesn't feel like they want to

436
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Speaker 1: sustain it. I think if they were all in all

437
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Speaker 1: trying to put these storylines, imagine if we were seeing

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Speaker 1: like Kylie and Timothy's Shalamae dating, and we were seeing

439
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Speaker 1: behind the scenes of Kendall at all these crazy events,

440
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Speaker 1: well her supermodel friends, and you were seeing more of

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Speaker 1: Chloe's life than just her complaining about getting her kids

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Speaker 1: to bed and traveling more with us in Courtney, and

443
00:19:11,144 --> 00:19:14,824
Speaker 1: you're seeing those family dynamics like instead of this forced

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Speaker 1: thing of these women who are so clearly unhappy with

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00:19:18,224 --> 00:19:20,064
Speaker 1: the place that fame has put them, and they want

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00:19:20,064 --> 00:19:22,304
Speaker 1: to keep the fame, but they don't want the downside

447
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Speaker 1: to it, and that's uncomfortable to watch.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to The Spill today.

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Speaker 2: If you want more from us, yesterday we did an

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Speaker 2: episode about Katie Perry and the criticism she's faced after

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Speaker 2: her latest music video. We will put that link in

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Speaker 2: our show notes. Otherwise, we will see you back here

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Speaker 2: in our podcast Speed at three pm tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Bye bye, Lan