Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy,
Speaker 1: but tired and worn, just some of the feelings when
Speaker 1: baby is born. There's magic, elation, there's chaos and tears,
Speaker 1: but everyone goes through the same hopes and fears. So
Speaker 1: this is a segment we hope helps you feel supported
Speaker 1: and valid. The mum juggles real, the good, bad, the ugly,
Speaker 1: the best and worst day. It's part of the journey
Speaker 1: to seize the Babe. I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned
Speaker 1: entrepreneur who hung up the suits and heels to co
Speaker 1: found Macha Maiden, a Macha Milk Bar, become a TV
Speaker 1: and radio presenter, and of course host The Sees the
Speaker 1: Ya Podcast. This year, I added motherhood to that list,
Speaker 1: which is the best job I've ever had with our
Speaker 1: beautiful baby Teddy, and this segment was designed to house
Speaker 1: all the conversations we've been having about parenthood. We'll still
Speaker 1: do our regular episodes and just like real life, it's
Speaker 1: a constant balance between our parent identity and everything else.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoy this segment as much as
Speaker 1: I have enjoyed creating it. Lovely Neighborhood, It's been a
Speaker 1: little while since our last Sees a Bebe episode, but
Speaker 1: as always, that in itself is just such an apt
Speaker 1: representation of the Juggle. So many good topics have come
Speaker 1: up recently just in going about my life that I've
Speaker 1: wanted to dedicate episodes two for this segment, but without
Speaker 1: anywhere near enough time to squeeze them in, including another
Speaker 1: episode on the Juggle itself after a little video I
Speaker 1: shared on it when viral, But that will have to wait,
Speaker 1: because what we did manage to squeeze in over this
Speaker 1: past week was to catch an incredible guest during her
Speaker 1: whirlwind visit to Australia. I still can't quite believe I
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to sit down with the woman who
Speaker 1: has already revolutionized meal time in our household, which is
Speaker 1: becoming quite the challenge as Teddy enters the wild world
Speaker 1: of toddlehood. When it comes to feeding small humans. There
Speaker 1: is pretty much nobody better to speak to than Annabelle Carmel,
Speaker 1: who has published fifty one books on the subjects nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety one, had several TV shows, a life changing range
Speaker 1: of delicious already made frozen meals, and now an amazing
Speaker 1: app featuring her easy, healthy recipes, her decades of work
Speaker 1: since well before similar resources were accessible, has earned her
Speaker 1: an mbe our equivalent of an OAM, along with the
Speaker 1: praise and loyalty of millions of families around the world.
Speaker 1: I just was not prepared for how difficult it could
Speaker 1: be to simply feed your child once they realized that
Speaker 1: they have autonomy, plus add the overwhelm of meal prep,
Speaker 1: balancing nutrition, and simply finding time. But Annabel's frozen meals
Speaker 1: and recipes have been unbelievably helpful, and I couldn't believe
Speaker 1: that not long after I discovered her, I actually got
Speaker 1: to meet her in the flesh. Not only do we
Speaker 1: cover so many of the burning questions that many of
Speaker 1: us have about picky eating, introducing new flavors, determining the
Speaker 1: right volumes, and all that kind of thing, Annabel also
Speaker 1: shares the heart wrenching story that brought her to this point,
Speaker 1: another path ya that she never could have predicted. A
Speaker 1: little heads up, we do touch on the loss of
Speaker 1: a child, so please do take care while listening. In
Speaker 1: the meantime, I hope you gain as much from this
Speaker 1: one as I did.
Speaker 2: Annabelle welcome, so lovely to be I love coming to Australia.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we love having you absolute icon and
Speaker 1: I feel like this is you've been here a month ago,
Speaker 1: you're coming again later in the year. I always thought
Speaker 1: you were Australians. Yeah, I mean, aren't we lucky to
Speaker 1: have you? And I'm so excited to have you for
Speaker 1: so many reasons, not just because you happen to be
Speaker 1: the pre eminent author and expert in an area that
Speaker 1: I've just it's just started to consume my life feeding
Speaker 1: my toddler, So that's one reason, but also because your
Speaker 1: story is so interesting. We've been talking for about seven
Speaker 1: minutes and I've already heard one of the most interesting
Speaker 1: stories I've ever heard.
Speaker 2: I think the why you started it is always very interesting.
Speaker 2: It isn't a path that you ever thought would happen,
Speaker 2: but it just life takes you that some is this
Speaker 2: tragedy that finds your career, which was for my life.
Speaker 1: Well that's something that I mean, not necessarily the tragedy,
Speaker 1: but the show is all about showcasing the many different, unexpected,
Speaker 1: often and nonlinear pathways to the most exciting.
Speaker 3: Well, this is definite've very non linear, and I.
Speaker 1: Think most of them are and people will walk into
Speaker 1: your life right now and see you know, you're a
Speaker 1: mum yourself, You've got two girls getting married, you're traveling
Speaker 1: the world, you've got three dogs, fifty one books, six dogs,
Speaker 1: six three children, three children, two marriages in a year,
Speaker 1: fifty one books, an app arrange in supermarkets around the world.
Speaker 1: And it's easy to think that you knew you'd end
Speaker 1: up here, or that you always had it all together.
Speaker 1: But I think revealing the many chapters that came beforehand
Speaker 1: is reassuring to others perhaps who haven't faund.
Speaker 3: A lot of it was not planned, It just happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly, So I would love to start there.
Speaker 1: You had, I mean even a whole career that unless
Speaker 1: you googled you, you wouldn't know from your current pages that
Speaker 1: you started as a musician, or that you know you
Speaker 1: had whole life before the chapter we walk into today.
Speaker 1: So take us back to the very beginning. How did
Speaker 1: it all come around?
Speaker 2: Well? I started off as a musician, so I was
Speaker 2: for twelve years as a professional harpist and singer, which
Speaker 2: I absolutely loved. Music was my life. The half was
Speaker 2: a difficult instrument because many of you may not know
Speaker 2: but apart from the strings, there's southern pedals with three
Speaker 2: different notches, so it's quite complicated, but it's a good
Speaker 2: training for anything else. It's like me and patting your head,
Speaker 2: but worse. So I did that for many years, and
Speaker 2: I probably would have continued to do it had it
Speaker 2: not been for me getting married. Actually I played Cinderella
Speaker 2: and PANTOMI I did crazy things about half I heard
Speaker 2: from the kitchen, and I learned classically and did many
Speaker 2: conscerants travel over the world, and I loved it. But
Speaker 2: it was a trashity that happened to me. It always
Speaker 2: wanted to have children. Took me over two years to
Speaker 2: get pregnant, and then they gave Birsta Natasha, my daughter,
Speaker 2: and I was over the moon. And then one day
Speaker 2: I looked at her and she didn't look quite right.
Speaker 2: Her eyes were like rolling back and her hands were twitching,
Speaker 2: and I just knew there was something wrong. And I
Speaker 2: called a doctor and he didn't really want to see her,
Speaker 2: but after a lot of persuasion, he agreed to see her.
Speaker 2: And when I took him to see her, he just
Speaker 2: gave me a selecture about first time mothers and how
Speaker 2: they worry about their child, and they're much more robust
Speaker 2: than you think they are. And I came home thinking
Speaker 2: I should never have taken him, and almost embarrassed. But
Speaker 2: the next morning she looked worse and she projectile vomited
Speaker 2: and it was awful, and I took her to another doctor,
Speaker 2: and nine o'clock in the morning I was on his
Speaker 2: doorstep and then he examined her, and then he said
Speaker 2: I've got to go and see another patient and left
Speaker 2: me for ten minutes, and actually hadn't gone to see
Speaker 2: another patient. He had already decided in his own mind
Speaker 2: there was something seriously wrong with her. And when he
Speaker 2: came back into the room, he said, I didn't go
Speaker 2: and see another patient. I tried to get her admitted
Speaker 2: to Great almost at Hostital, which is the best hospital
Speaker 2: for her. Couldn't get her a bed, but take to
Speaker 2: Saint Mary's and they'll do tests on her. And that
Speaker 2: day they did the tests, and at five o'clock they
Speaker 2: took me into a room after doing a cat scan.
Speaker 2: They told me she'd never be normal again, or she
Speaker 2: might die, and they were transferring her.
Speaker 3: To Great Ormond Street Hospital.
Speaker 2: So I stayed there are five days and five nights
Speaker 2: and on the fifth day, they told me that they
Speaker 2: wanted to have a meeting and you know in your
Speaker 2: heart of heart's what it's going to be. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: they basically said, the thinking part of her brain had gone,
Speaker 2: what did I want to do? And of course, what
Speaker 2: do you want to do? I mean, you can't keep
Speaker 2: a child alive like that. So they push in my
Speaker 2: arms and for four hours she didn't actually die, and
Speaker 2: then she died, and it was just terrible. And you
Speaker 2: go home and you're not a mother anymore, and all
Speaker 2: her things are in the house and you just like
Speaker 2: your whole life is just gone. And for me, music
Speaker 2: was not what I wanted to do anymore, and I
Speaker 2: wanted to work with children, but I didn't really know
Speaker 2: what that's going to be until my second child was born.
Speaker 2: But that was also not straightforward at all, because I
Speaker 2: got pregnant, thank goodness, within four months. But I took Clomid,
Speaker 2: which is fertility drug, so it could have had multiple babies,
Speaker 2: but ended up only being.
Speaker 3: Pregnant with one.
Speaker 2: And my doctor went away and then he came back
Speaker 2: just in time. When I called him to say that
Speaker 2: I was in labor. He said he'd be at home
Speaker 2: and it was very early stages.
Speaker 3: Don't worry.
Speaker 2: Then I called him again half an hour later and
Speaker 2: I couldn't get ahold of him. And I called him
Speaker 2: again because my waters broke, and again I couldn't get
Speaker 2: a hold of him. So I went upstairs get my
Speaker 2: things to go to hospital. And the head came out.
Speaker 2: But this is bad enough for any mother, but for
Speaker 2: a mother whose child had died one year previously, it
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god. And I was thinking all
Speaker 2: the time, if I lose another child, I really won't
Speaker 2: want to go on. And I called my husband and
Speaker 2: I said I'm having the baby and he said it
Speaker 2: was stupid. And then he saw and the head was blue,
Speaker 2: and he thought the baby was dead because the baby
Speaker 2: wasn't breathing.
Speaker 3: But what do we know.
Speaker 2: The baby can't breathe till the body comes out. We
Speaker 2: learned that later. So I went on all fours. It
Speaker 2: was kind of just a natural instinct to do that.
Speaker 2: And the baby came out on the staircase, on the staircase,
Speaker 2: half on the staircase, still attached by the corse. I
Speaker 2: couldn't get the baby really close to me, and then
Speaker 2: I said, you better ring the hospital, like see if
Speaker 2: somebody can come. And I was left there for two
Speaker 2: and a half hours and no.
Speaker 3: One came at home.
Speaker 2: Yes, and even worse because we'd sold the house and
Speaker 2: the carpet was pale yellow and it was not pare
Speaker 2: yellow by the time the baby woud been born, and
Speaker 2: it would look like a murder had been committed anyway.
Speaker 2: Then a doctor came, but not my doctor, and he
Speaker 2: cut the cord because we would not have known what
Speaker 2: to do. And then my doctor arrived and he kind
Speaker 2: of said, like, must have been a wonderful experience for you,
Speaker 2: just you and your hospital. I'm thinking this was definitely
Speaker 2: not a wonderfully experience in any shape or form. And
Speaker 2: then my mother rives at the hospital when I was
Speaker 2: eventually taking to hospital and told by the nurse and
Speaker 2: no one had give him birth there, but someone had
Speaker 2: given birth at home, and she didn't think that was
Speaker 2: me because we hadn't called her, because she would have
Speaker 2: been like flapping around and made things twenty times worse.
Speaker 2: And I'm sat up in bed with a dress, my
Speaker 2: boots on covered in blood. Doctor's immacurate. My husband's got
Speaker 2: blood all over him, Like what has been going on here?
Speaker 3: Anyway?
Speaker 2: That was the birth of Nicholas, and he was an
Speaker 2: interesting child. He wouldn't eat, he wouldn't sleep, he was difficult.
Speaker 2: But obviously I was so happy and over the moon
Speaker 2: to have a child again. It was the only thing
Speaker 2: that would help me. And he wouldn't eat very much,
Speaker 2: so I was very vulnerable having lost a child, thinking
Speaker 2: that I I really want this child to eat. So
Speaker 2: I started out making recipes for him. And I was
Speaker 2: writning a big playgroup at the time with mothers and
Speaker 2: children about eighty months and babies came to it and
Speaker 2: I was testing out all the recipes on them and
Speaker 2: they said, Wow, these receipees are amazing. And after about
Speaker 2: three months they said to me, you know what, you
Speaker 2: should write a book about feeding children because these recipes
Speaker 2: really work. And I thought, I can't even type if
Speaker 2: I'm going to write a book. But then I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, this is a great way to kind of
Speaker 2: you want to make some sense of like why this
Speaker 2: child was born, why this child died, and give something back.
Speaker 2: And I just thought, for me, it's a therapy and
Speaker 2: for me to give something back and help other children
Speaker 2: is what I want to do. And I spent two
Speaker 2: and a half years researching child and nutrition, came up
Speaker 2: with my first book, sent it to fifteen publishers, and
Speaker 2: every single one of them either did not answer.
Speaker 3: Or turned me down.
Speaker 2: No, they did, and everybody thought every single book on
Speaker 2: feeding babies had never sold well. It was such an
Speaker 2: uncommercial subject to write a book on. It could not
Speaker 2: have been a worse subject. I eventually found a book packager,
Speaker 2: and that meant that my royalties were terrible. But it
Speaker 2: got published and it's sold five million copies.
Speaker 3: That book.
Speaker 2: It was eventually published by a random house, being a
Speaker 2: random House and Simon Shuster in America. And I guess,
Speaker 2: so that book hadn't done well, that wud been the
Speaker 2: end of my career as a writer. But I've now
Speaker 2: written fifty one books. I mean, who's counting, but a
Speaker 2: lot of books.
Speaker 1: I am, that's a lot of books.
Speaker 2: And what I've done now is actually developed an app
Speaker 2: which is amazing because it has thirteen hundred recipes on
Speaker 2: it and it takes you through every single stage of
Speaker 2: your baby's development, from the very first foods to finger foods,
Speaker 2: to fussy eating, to how to cope with allergies. And
Speaker 2: that is an incredible resource for parents and it's been
Speaker 2: very popular and we've been developing that and that's become
Speaker 2: what I call my fifth child, my app which I love,
Speaker 2: and now I have. Yeah, I have three healthy children,
Speaker 2: my son who's married, my daughter who just got married,
Speaker 2: and another dog is getting married in two months time.
Speaker 2: So hopefully there will be babies next year.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: I want very much, obviously, because up until then, I've
Speaker 2: had dogs, and every time I don't have a grandchild,
Speaker 2: I get another puppy. So I'm counting now six dogs
Speaker 2: at home.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it's since the post where I saw five,
Speaker 1: there's been another one at it.
Speaker 3: Well, I've bred my dog. I saw they were pennies.
Speaker 2: My dog out to a friend's dog and they had
Speaker 2: four puppies and I kept three of them, and it
Speaker 2: already had two dogs. And there's her the three puppies.
Speaker 2: So there's six dogs in my house.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I mean you love to keep busy.
Speaker 1: I love how these eighty five projects going on at once.
Speaker 2: Don't cook book, of course, I did How to Feed
Speaker 2: Your Dog, And for the first time I let my
Speaker 2: dogs eat while I was cooking, which they could not
Speaker 2: understand because normally I say you can't have that. And
Speaker 2: it's funny because to do the pictures, they used to
Speaker 2: put peanut butter on their nose. They would lick their
Speaker 2: lips and it would look like they're really enjoying it.
Speaker 2: Mind you, they are pretty indiscriminate eaters, And when I'm cooking,
Speaker 2: I have these like at least four dogs drooling that
Speaker 2: hoping that I'm going to like drop something on the
Speaker 2: kitchen floor that they can eat.
Speaker 1: Goodness. I mean, I thought you were extraordinary. I thought
Speaker 1: you were an extraordinary gift to society and parents everywhere
Speaker 1: before that story, but hearing the background of where someone
Speaker 1: came from adds just so much depth, I think to
Speaker 1: your appreciation of everything they've achieved.
Speaker 2: I think why you do something is so important because
Speaker 2: you know, as you know, business is not easy, and
Speaker 2: however successful you are, there's so many pitfalls. And because
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I did it all
Speaker 2: for Natasha. It just drives me through anything that's bad
Speaker 2: because I know that what I'm doing is giving back
Speaker 2: and helping parents to give their child a healthy diet
Speaker 2: the will last and the rest of their life. Because
Speaker 2: children make up their minds by the age of five,
Speaker 2: what they're going to eat basically, and one in three
Speaker 2: of us will die from a doubt related disease. So
Speaker 2: what you give your children now? I always say like
Speaker 2: it's giving them a longer life and a better quality life. Oh,
Speaker 2: I mean it is so important. I say, what you
Speaker 2: eat today which terms your future tomorrow?
Speaker 1: Which it does. That's scary. But also well, my children
Speaker 1: love salad.
Speaker 2: I make this amazing salad dressings, and they hated their
Speaker 2: school food and they took bottles of this like Japanese
Speaker 2: style dressing school with them, poured it over their food,
Speaker 2: and that anything they would eat with that dressing, and
Speaker 2: then all the other children wanted to have it at
Speaker 2: school as well. I was making It was like a
Speaker 2: factory at my house making this salad dressing. Which is
Speaker 2: they still love it now, Oh my goodness. So not
Speaker 2: biscuits or cakes, but salads.
Speaker 1: I have personally found it surprising that toddler feeding and
Speaker 1: nutrition has been one of the most difficult parts of
Speaker 1: this parenthood. And I wasn't expecting that. You think it's
Speaker 1: going to be behavioral or sleep or whatever, and of
Speaker 1: course sleep is difficult, but you think they'll want to eat.
Speaker 1: They need to eat. For survival. You just don't think
Speaker 1: it's going to be so difficult or that they'll be
Speaker 1: so discerning.
Speaker 2: It's genetic that they're fussy. It's actually nothing to do
Speaker 2: with you. You can have two children, one who eats
Speaker 2: well when he doesn't eat well in the same family.
Speaker 2: That's not to say you can't do anything about it,
Speaker 2: but you are born that way. It's not your cooking.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I'm very but I mean already in our household,
Speaker 1: you've been just such an incredible You've empowered us so
Speaker 1: much to minimize the trauma of meal time and to
Speaker 1: be able to I mean the way that you have
Speaker 1: recipes that hide veggies, like you're targeting every parent's problem
Speaker 1: area and making it easier and removing obstacles.
Speaker 2: When I read my book, every said babies really like
Speaker 2: bland food. And I put that to the test because
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, I don't like bland food. Why would they?
Speaker 2: And you know what, they didn't. They like things with taste.
Speaker 2: And we have like one of our most popular meals
Speaker 2: here as a butter chicken, which is, you know, a
Speaker 2: curry chicken.
Speaker 3: But they love that.
Speaker 2: And in a way, making meals like that are good
Speaker 2: because you can't really add salt before one year, but
Speaker 2: then garam masala and a bit of like curry paste,
Speaker 2: which is delicious. You don't need to have salt. So
Speaker 2: it's a good way to get children to eat something tasty,
Speaker 2: and they do like tasty food. So all of my
Speaker 2: recipes can be eaten by the whole family. Really, yeah, well,
Speaker 2: I don't have to cook separate meals.
Speaker 1: We're also in that chapter where I mean, he absolutely
Speaker 1: adores your bolonnaise, but he won't eat the full serving,
Speaker 1: Like I'll warm the entire thing up, and so I
Speaker 1: just finish it. Absolutely, it's delicious.
Speaker 2: It's my hidden bolonnaise has got mushrooms, capsicum like, coushat like,
Speaker 2: it's got so many different vegetables. Now we make that
Speaker 2: embark at home. I absolutely love it. It is the
Speaker 2: best bolonnaise ever. But it's like vegetables. It's fantastic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but they're all blended, and what.
Speaker 3: You can't see you can't pick out. It's great.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: I love that. Half your technique is a hiding things
Speaker 1: from the toddlers, which is amazing. But before we get
Speaker 1: into the practical questions, of which I have many for you,
Speaker 1: I do just want to highlight the fact that this
Speaker 1: is a show about joy and we don't often speak
Speaker 1: about the interaction that has with grief, and the fact
Speaker 1: that tragedy and grief can be worked through and you
Speaker 1: can find moments of joy and obviously an incredibly purposeful
Speaker 1: journey that helps so many others. And now it's easy
Speaker 1: for you, easy one. Not easy, but I mean now
Speaker 1: you can speak about it in hindsight. But I'm sure
Speaker 1: at the very beginning, before you knew that the book
Speaker 1: will be successful, before you were a multi million best
Speaker 1: selling author, it was very hard.
Speaker 3: You were taking break.
Speaker 2: I can't even explain what it felt like. Was it
Speaker 2: felt like something pressing on your head, It was a
Speaker 2: physical I don't know. It was just hard to function
Speaker 2: at all, and you just imagine you'll never have children again,
Speaker 2: or whatever happened to Natasha would happen to another child.
Speaker 2: And it's a very bleak, dark period and it was
Speaker 2: really really hard, and I just felt They offered me
Speaker 2: counseling and I said, no, I just want to hold
Speaker 2: a baby in my arms. I knew that that was
Speaker 2: the only thing that would help me. Know amount of
Speaker 2: counseling would help, and more parents than you imagine have
Speaker 2: lost children or had a miscarriage, which is also incredibly
Speaker 2: emotionally upsetting. And I think you either drown in it
Speaker 2: or you think I'm going to do something to mark
Speaker 2: the fact that I had this child and make something
Speaker 2: happen from her short life. And I think that she
Speaker 2: will have helped many children to have better quality lies,
Speaker 2: because without Natasha, without what had happened to me, I
Speaker 2: doubt whether I'd ever written my first book and done
Speaker 2: everything that I've done. She was a driving force behind it.
Speaker 2: And very often when something like that happens, when you
Speaker 2: lose a child, you do end up doing something that's.
Speaker 3: Very meaningful in their honor. Yeah you do.
Speaker 2: I didn't do it for money. I never did it
Speaker 2: as a career. It just happened to be a career.
Speaker 2: It was to write this one book as my kind
Speaker 2: of my way of like remembering Natasha and always, you know,
Speaker 2: always rumbing that she was there and making some sense
Speaker 2: of her very short life.
Speaker 1: And I love that. I think there are many parents
Speaker 1: who do experience grief in different forms and for many
Speaker 1: different reasons, and it's still not really spoken about as much.
Speaker 1: It's still quite stigmatized.
Speaker 2: As a parental there are other things I do because
Speaker 2: the reason she died, So the reason she died was
Speaker 2: she was kissed by somebody with a cold saw. And
Speaker 2: now I do talk a lot about the fact that
Speaker 2: when babies are very young, they're very vulnerable and they
Speaker 2: don't have the antibodies that we have, and that it's
Speaker 2: not a good idea to let them be kissed by people,
Speaker 2: in touch by people like let people see them. But
Speaker 2: kissing babies is not a good idea in the very
Speaker 2: very early stages. And that's what happened to me. Somebody
Speaker 2: kissed her with the early signs of a cold salt.
Speaker 2: It developed into en capolitis, slowing of the brain, and
Speaker 2: it was irreversible because she was a healthy.
Speaker 3: Normal child.
Speaker 2: And I never knew that something like that could happen,
Speaker 2: but I was told when I left the hospital by
Speaker 2: I remember the consultant said, I'm going to give you
Speaker 2: one piece of advice. Next time you have a child,
Speaker 2: you know, take into the park, but don't let them mix,
Speaker 2: don't take them out, don't let them mix.
Speaker 3: With other people. They're very vulnerable.
Speaker 2: And I talk about that because I think that many
Speaker 2: parents don't understand that or if somebody comes to kiss
Speaker 2: them or touch them, they feel embarrassed that if you say,
Speaker 2: don't touch my baby, I'll think you're really fussy, crazy mother.
Speaker 2: But we're doing it for a reason to keep up
Speaker 2: babies safe.
Speaker 1: And I think also that is why it's important to
Speaker 1: talk about the areas of parenthood that are a little
Speaker 1: bit more shrouded in shame or secrecy or taboo, because
Speaker 1: you have to have heard that to take it seriously.
Speaker 1: Unless you know the consequences, it is easy to go no,
Speaker 1: it's fine, you just do it. So I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: the more aware you.
Speaker 3: Are of or can happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean you don't want to live in fields,
Speaker 1: I know. But awareness I think is such an important
Speaker 1: part of you know, making choices. But you have gone
Speaker 1: on to turn it into such an incredible career and
Speaker 1: become such a pre eminent authority and in everything that
Speaker 1: I need you for right now.
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is that we can't always scratch cook
Speaker 2: and there are times when you know, even peanut carrot
Speaker 2: feels really ambitious.
Speaker 1: Showering feels ambitious, so carots on the list.
Speaker 2: So yeah, when I was approached by I was a
Speaker 2: number one Frozen few company in Australia to design a
Speaker 2: range of meals for children. I'd already done that in
Speaker 2: the UK become really really successful, and we developed this
Speaker 2: amazing range. It was originally for coles of like just
Speaker 2: delicious meals that had lots of vegetables, no artificial flavors, colorings,
Speaker 2: and snap frozen so everything was locked in, all the
Speaker 2: goodness because let's face it, like when you go down
Speaker 2: the baby ail in the supermarket, there's no electricity, so
Speaker 2: it's all long life, and in order for it to
Speaker 2: have a long shelf life has to be heated to
Speaker 2: a high degree, which actually destroys a lot of the nutrients.
Speaker 2: And there's a program on television looking at some of
Speaker 2: these baby food pouches and like there was a mango
Speaker 2: pouch actually contained zero vitamin C in it, or if
Speaker 2: it happened meat, it was such a tiny amount. Whereas
Speaker 2: you know, if you freeze something, you've locked everything in
Speaker 2: and it's just as good as when you cooked at
Speaker 2: the first time. So that's what I wanted to do,
Speaker 2: like give mothers the opportunity to give their children something
Speaker 2: that was like a freshly cooked meal, but they could
Speaker 2: take it home and book it in their freezer for
Speaker 2: days and they don't have time to cook. And at
Speaker 2: the beginning, people didn't even know to go to the
Speaker 2: freezer to find a children's meal. It just you know,
Speaker 2: they weren't looking there. So it took about a year
Speaker 2: for it to catch on. But after that it became really,
Speaker 2: really popular. And I think it's amazing because you know,
Speaker 2: we're developing another range now and it's been ten years
Speaker 2: now since I developed that range, and so many people
Speaker 2: come up to you and say, well, it's a lifesaver.
Speaker 2: It's a lifesaver because you don't feel guilty about giving
Speaker 2: it to your child. You don't because you know it's
Speaker 2: good quality.
Speaker 1: And there is a lot of guilt. And I mean,
Speaker 1: we put so much pressure on ourselves to do it all,
Speaker 1: and like the expectations. I actually posted a video the
Speaker 1: other day about the modern motherhood riddle, which is that
Speaker 1: women in twenty twenty five are expected to work as
Speaker 1: if they don't mother mother is if they don't work,
Speaker 1: and look as if they do neither working or motherly.
Speaker 1: True exactly, And the pressure you put, either externally or
Speaker 1: internally to do it all and cook from scratch but
Speaker 1: also be one hundred percent of your work and maintain
Speaker 1: or your friendships, and something's got to give somewhere. So
Speaker 1: being able to do it knowing that there is nutritional
Speaker 1: value and that it isn't full of preservatives, and that
Speaker 1: they love the taste it is, you are actually yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's actually saving lives, Anna Belle.
Speaker 2: It's even also about like what if I did spend
Speaker 2: time in the kitchen cooking something, is my child actually
Speaker 2: going to eat it? There's always that worry as well.
Speaker 2: At least here you can experiment with lots of different
Speaker 2: flavors and see which one your child likes without having
Speaker 2: to buy the food, chop the food, cook the food.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just it really is like so easy,
Speaker 2: and we work really hard to make sure that all
Speaker 2: the nutrients are as if you cooked it at home,
Speaker 2: and it will be as good and it's tasty. And
Speaker 2: they're based on favorite recipes from my book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say so.
Speaker 2: I've just come from developing a new range which hopefully
Speaker 2: we will launch next year, and there we just launched
Speaker 2: a new bolonnaise mac I call it really two childhood
Speaker 2: sweethearts meeting each other. The macaroni, cheese and the bolonnaise
Speaker 2: is an absolute winner, and I think it's become one
Speaker 2: of my most popular meals. It's only been out for
Speaker 2: about ten days, so I think it's adults.
Speaker 1: Eating that because that sounds like my favorite meal.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just tasted and it really is good.
Speaker 1: Well, that brings up I mean the whole idea that
Speaker 1: the other day I cooked a twelve hour slow cooked
Speaker 1: brisket thinking this would be a really good way to
Speaker 1: get some more iron into him, and he doesn't love tough.
Speaker 3: Beef, so of course it sounds good to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it sounds tasted great to me. I'm
Speaker 1: glad I could eat it, but wouldn't have a bar
Speaker 1: of it. And so there are lots of behavioral questions.
Speaker 1: I'd love to ask you for any parents listening, because
Speaker 1: I know it is such a hard time. So the
Speaker 1: million dollar question is volume. Yeah, I mean it's really
Speaker 1: hard to work out how much they should be eating,
Speaker 1: how often, and when they are sort of throwing half
Speaker 1: of it and playing with it in their face, Like
Speaker 1: how do you deal with the volume question? Are they
Speaker 1: eating enough? And if they are leaving a lot of
Speaker 1: it on their plate, do you keep persisting? Do you
Speaker 1: take it away and start again. Like in your experience
Speaker 1: of seeing probably millions of families go through these.
Speaker 2: I think is less about volume more about the quality
Speaker 2: of what you're giving them. And I think there's a
Speaker 2: stage where children eat pretty well in the first eleven months,
Speaker 2: and then something has clearly wrong and you're snarled into
Speaker 2: this sense of false security that my child's a good eater.
Speaker 2: And that's because in the first year they grow more
Speaker 2: rapidly than any other time in their entire life, so
Speaker 2: their growth rate slows down, and also life becomes more interesting.
Speaker 2: They're not stuck in a high chair, so it's quite
Speaker 2: natural that they will not want to eat as much.
Speaker 2: And also basically they prefer to eat things that they
Speaker 2: pick up and put into their mouth themselves. So I
Speaker 2: wrote a book all about fingerfoods, my latest book, And
Speaker 2: what I did was I would put all sorts of
Speaker 2: ingredients into a food pressss so chop them up. Maybe
Speaker 2: it's chicken thigh which is twice as rich as the breast,
Speaker 2: with lots of vegetables, of breadcrumbs and some herbs and
Speaker 2: things like that, and then I'd roll it into balls
Speaker 2: and either cooked in the alven or an air fryer
Speaker 2: and they would pick it up with their fingers and
Speaker 2: that word wanders. And the book is all about that
Speaker 2: sort of thing where you put all of these delicious
Speaker 2: like superfoods together to make really tiny food that they
Speaker 2: pick up with their hands that works really well and
Speaker 2: they don't drop it because they like it. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: also in that book are like homemade fruit and vegetable lollies,
Speaker 2: so you can make lollies out of like berry fruits
Speaker 2: and beet fruit, so it can be vegetable and fruit
Speaker 2: lolly or oranges and mango and carrots, and they sounds strange,
Speaker 2: but children love them. And also like you can do
Speaker 2: like your own homemade fast food. So I make things
Speaker 2: like my own burgers which are delicious but they've got
Speaker 2: lots of veggies in them, or my own pizzas with
Speaker 2: also hidden vegetable tomato sauce. So there are all sorts
Speaker 2: of things you can give your children to eat that
Speaker 2: they will like and they don't take too long to make.
Speaker 2: And also that you can make in batches and freeze,
Speaker 2: which is good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the bulk, but I just love how all of
Speaker 1: your sneak something in there that otherwise I mean, if
Speaker 1: I put a piece of brocoli in front of him
Speaker 1: that's just steamed with nothing on it. It's probably not
Speaker 1: going to be thrilled with that. But I love the
Speaker 1: way you sneak ingredients in because I think that's half
Speaker 1: the battle. What about if their You mentioned that your
Speaker 1: son was quite picky eater, when they are very finicky,
Speaker 1: like just won't even try new foods. I have been
Speaker 1: told that it can take twenty exposures before they will
Speaker 1: like a food. But you know, do you persist that long?
Speaker 1: What did you do to kind of.
Speaker 3: Get one day?
Speaker 2: And they eat it all up? And then you think,
Speaker 2: this is great, I'm going to make it again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, make it again. It did like it once, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I think that I would give it again, obviously,
Speaker 2: but I would try giving it in a different way. So,
Speaker 2: for example, my children did not like boil or steamed cauliflower,
Speaker 2: and then I roasted the cauliflower in the oven and
Speaker 2: it gives it that lovely sweetness and they love that.
Speaker 2: So there's other ways of doing it. And I mean
Speaker 2: they do say you have to try ten to fifteen times,
Speaker 2: and I would try quite a few times, but also
Speaker 2: I would give it a rest sometimes if you find
Speaker 2: something they like and keep on giving it to them.
Speaker 2: You can overdo it and then they don't ever want
Speaker 2: to eat it again their entire life. So I think
Speaker 2: it's about variety, about making sure there's not too much
Speaker 2: on the plate, about making individual portion sometimes. So let's
Speaker 2: say you have a chicken potato pie and make it
Speaker 2: in a small ramkin, so it's that individual portion rather
Speaker 2: than slopping it onto a plate. Because they eat with
Speaker 2: their eyes as well as their tummies. Cut up through
Speaker 2: this colorful you know, cut like a pumpkin into a star,
Speaker 2: make things into balls, and there's just a way to
Speaker 2: entice children to eat. I do these like stars, where
Speaker 2: actually I grat carrot and cogette, I mix it with
Speaker 2: egg and cheese and I push it into a star cutter,
Speaker 2: and then I bake these stars in the oven. And
Speaker 2: they absolutely love them. But if they were like all
Speaker 2: mushy and didn't look like a storied out or they'd
Speaker 2: even give them time of day. But they say they
Speaker 2: didn't like something they've never even tried it, I mean
Speaker 2: that's hopeless. You've got to get them to eat the
Speaker 2: first tiny bit of something new. And I also don't
Speaker 2: think that you should give attention for not eating, but
Speaker 2: you give loads of attention for eating an infinite testinary small.
Speaker 3: Thing is something new.
Speaker 2: So if you ignore the bad eating habits, it's not
Speaker 2: so much fun for them to actually make a fuss.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they know they're.
Speaker 2: Not going to get a reaction from you, but they'll
Speaker 2: get the reaction for eating something. And eating together is important.
Speaker 2: Who likes to eat alone? You know they don't like
Speaker 2: that just spooning food into a child's mouth in a
Speaker 2: high chair. So if you eat together with them, I
Speaker 2: think that also helps, or bring a child over is
Speaker 2: a good eater. That's why a nursery they often eat
Speaker 2: better than they eat at home because their friend Johnny
Speaker 2: is eating that, so they're far they'll eat it.
Speaker 1: I've actually heard a lot of babies who have nap
Speaker 1: time problems at home with sleeping. They sleep absolutely fine
Speaker 1: when they're a kinder because every other baby goes to sleep,
Speaker 1: they just copy. I'm like, what do you mean, it's
Speaker 1: so contrived. They're very clever.
Speaker 3: They are clever. I guess they're very very wily, these children.
Speaker 1: But they are gorgeous, absolutely, and they has to be
Speaker 1: otherwise it's too hard.
Speaker 2: But it's such a lovely thing that when you have
Speaker 2: me something and you've come cut something that they eat
Speaker 2: is a really good feeling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, you feel like a queen. Achievement. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: But that's a really interesting suggestion to mix up the
Speaker 1: form factor and that they eat with their eyes, because
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that. If they do look enticing, yeah,
Speaker 1: why would? I mean, we don't like things if they
Speaker 1: look gross, we wouldn't give it a chance. So is
Speaker 1: very good at that they present everything so well. And
Speaker 1: I love the idea of cutters, like the shapes.
Speaker 2: I do cut things in shapes, yeah, which it does
Speaker 2: make it a difference.
Speaker 1: What about new foods, So if you are introducing I
Speaker 1: think I watched one of your videos the other day
Speaker 1: about spices, which are you know right now at Teddy's palette,
Speaker 1: he hasn't really had too much. Like we've introduced a
Speaker 1: lot of things broadly, but he hasn't had curry, for example,
Speaker 1: he hasn't had chili or like. There are lots of
Speaker 1: spices that are quite pun and or potent that he hasn't.
Speaker 2: You can make them a bit more mile So I
Speaker 2: made up a feated chicken which was absolutly delicious and
Speaker 2: had a bit of cumen in it, and it's not spicy,
Speaker 2: but it gives it a lot of flavor, and children
Speaker 2: absolutely loved it. I'm thinking making it into a ready
Speaker 2: meal because it was so delicious. Gara masala is very good.
Speaker 2: I use a lot of time and herbs like that
Speaker 2: because you can't really add salts. You've got to add
Speaker 2: flavor otherwise it's really boring. So I think it's really
Speaker 2: good to use herbs and basil and all of that
Speaker 2: is something that children really enjoy.
Speaker 1: What about treats? So I have a couple of friends
Speaker 1: who had very, very fussy eaters, and their original hopes
Speaker 1: and dreams of how they would feed their child had
Speaker 1: to go out the window because it was like, if
Speaker 1: I can get him to eat this packet yogurt and
Speaker 1: that is the only calories I'm getting hit him today,
Speaker 1: then I'm just going to have to deal with that.
Speaker 3: That's okay. I don't believe in banning treats.
Speaker 2: My children have chocolate and whatever they wanted, really, because
Speaker 2: as soon as you ban them, they become the forbidden
Speaker 2: fruit and they want it all the more.
Speaker 1: So there's still.
Speaker 2: So basically, my children, I just made my healthy food
Speaker 2: taste so good that they weren't particularly interested in the
Speaker 2: chocolate and the biscuits, but it was always there for them.
Speaker 2: And there isn't such a thing as a really bad food.
Speaker 2: It's how much you eat.
Speaker 3: Of that food.
Speaker 2: I mean, my children would go to my dolls have
Speaker 2: a chicken nugget, and I wouldn't say anything, that's fine,
Speaker 2: But then I would make my own chicken burg as
Speaker 2: we were delicious. It's just what you eat in a
Speaker 2: week that matters, really, not what you eat in a
Speaker 2: particular day. And actually it's the frequency with which children
Speaker 2: eat sugary food that is the worst thing. That's what
Speaker 2: damages their teeth because then the sliv never has a
Speaker 2: chance to wash it away. So if the child are
Speaker 2: going to have chocolate, give at the end of a meal,
Speaker 2: but not between meals. Yeah, And even things like raisins
Speaker 2: they stick to teeth as well. And a lot of
Speaker 2: these fruit snacks it says one hundred percent fruit, that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean it doesn't tack your teeth because fruit sugar
Speaker 2: is also sugar. So I think that a lot of
Speaker 2: the things in the supermarket that are like healthy snacks
Speaker 2: are not that healthy and can do a lot of
Speaker 2: damage to children's teeth. And in the UK a lot
Speaker 2: of children are going under general anstatic before the age
Speaker 2: of four to have teeth extracted, mostly because of these snacks,
Speaker 2: you know, like fruit leather. That's so bad for children's teeth. Wow,
Speaker 2: you have to be careful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I would never have thought of the order
Speaker 1: of offering chocolate, like I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: Have spend of a meal between meals.
Speaker 1: What are some other tips like that that you wouldn't
Speaker 1: think of until you get to speak to sit down
Speaker 1: with someone like you who's such an expert, or things
Speaker 1: that you know parents have asked you that your surprise,
Speaker 1: they don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, actually a lot of it is early on. It's
Speaker 2: all about like what foods could cause choking. So if
Speaker 2: you're in a cut a carrot and you cut it
Speaker 2: into round shapes, that is a choking hazard. You need
Speaker 2: to cut it into batons. If you're going to have
Speaker 2: a large strawberry, that's fine, you can suck on that.
Speaker 2: But a small strawberry it is a choking hazard. You
Speaker 2: have to cut it into quarters. And on the app,
Speaker 2: we show every single food and vegetable and how to
Speaker 2: cut it so that your child doesn't choke. But the
Speaker 2: thing that a lot of parents don't realize is that
Speaker 2: gagging is a natural reflex and that's how children learn
Speaker 2: and not to choke, and that they will gag. They'll
Speaker 2: all gag, and nature is very clever and the gagging
Speaker 2: reflects and a young child is very far forward in
Speaker 2: their mouth, so gokough, cough, cough, and they go red
Speaker 2: in the face, and the best thing is not to interfere.
Speaker 2: But a lot of parents then stop giving their children
Speaker 2: any finger food choking and they have the other hand
Speaker 2: is when they go blue and they go silent and
Speaker 2: their airway is blocked. So you've got to understand the
Speaker 2: intertween gagging and choking. You've got to let them get
Speaker 2: on with the gagging, because that is how they learn
Speaker 2: how to swallow. It's a hard thing, but if you
Speaker 2: know that's natural, then you understand that just let them
Speaker 2: get on with it. They sort themselves out. They're pretty
Speaker 2: good at that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually fascinating because I think, I mean, choking
Speaker 1: is a parent's a worse night mare, of course, like
Speaker 1: literally the worst case scenario. And I think it's also
Speaker 1: because it's something unlike all the other risks that you face.
Speaker 1: There are a million risks that children and parents face,
Speaker 1: but it's the one that you feed them three times
Speaker 1: a day, so it comes up more.
Speaker 2: You do worry about it and never leave them alone, obviously.
Speaker 2: And the other thing is about allergies, Like specific allergies
Speaker 2: are not inherited. So let's say you have an allergy
Speaker 2: to peanuts. It isn't necessarier that your child's going to
Speaker 2: have that allergy. What is inherited, however, is the propensity
Speaker 2: to have an allergy. So that means if you have
Speaker 2: exma or asthma or hay fever, your child may have that.
Speaker 2: And it's the children have EXMA who are most at
Speaker 2: risk of having a food allergy. So in fact, if
Speaker 2: a child has very severe X march an early age,
Speaker 2: they're very likely to have a food allergy. And in
Speaker 2: some cases, and this sounds really odd, in some cases
Speaker 2: you need to give them an under medical supervision peanut
Speaker 2: butter at four months, not six months, because you have
Speaker 2: this window of opportunity we're giving this potentially allergenic food
Speaker 2: can help to actually stop them getting their allergy. And
Speaker 2: when I was a mother, they would not give babies
Speaker 2: peanut butter until nine months, and the instance of peanut
Speaker 2: allergy went right sky high. And then they did this
Speaker 2: trial with giving children peanut butter very early on, and
Speaker 2: the ones who had the peanut butter early on were
Speaker 2: the ones who didn't develop the allergy. And the other
Speaker 2: thing is that in England the common asalergies actually to eggs,
Speaker 2: not dairy, but eggs. Really in my day that meant
Speaker 2: you could not give any eggs, no biscuits, no cakes,
Speaker 2: no nothing. Now they know that you can have baked eggs.
Speaker 2: Some children who are allergic to like omelet or scrambled eggs
Speaker 2: can actually tolerate eggs in a muscle or something a
Speaker 2: muffin or in a meat ball, and by having a
Speaker 2: small amount of egg in whatever form may well help
Speaker 2: them grow out of that egg allergy. So all these
Speaker 2: things are really important to know because it may not
Speaker 2: be forever. Not all allergies are life threatening allergies well
Speaker 2: also like peanuts are more life threatening than egg or dairy,
Speaker 2: but you know important And also a lot of parents
Speaker 2: like they think their child has an analogy when they
Speaker 2: actually don't because often gastroentritis is followed by a period
Speaker 2: of intolerance to anything dairy, and then they think, oh,
Speaker 2: my child's got a dairy aalergy. I have to take
Speaker 2: everything dairy out of their diet, which is quite difficult actually,
Speaker 2: so it's best to get it properly tested. I think
Speaker 2: when you think your child has an analogy, and after
Speaker 2: they say eighteen months, two years, try again. And there's
Speaker 2: a milk ladder where you give a biscuit with a
Speaker 2: small amount of milk and see if they can grow.
Speaker 3: Out of it.
Speaker 2: Because allergies are not that common and it is more
Speaker 2: difficult to give your child a bounced out if you
Speaker 2: have to avoid a common food group.
Speaker 1: It's so fascinating how something seem really counterintuitive, Like I
Speaker 1: know there's you know, we all go through the allergy
Speaker 1: testing at the beginning, and then the instructions are make
Speaker 1: sure you re expose them regularly.
Speaker 3: Isn't given peanut right, that's great?
Speaker 2: My child would have an argue, no, no, no, You've got
Speaker 2: to give it like twice a week, and you just
Speaker 2: wouldn't think of that.
Speaker 1: No, gosh, there's so much admin to feed his children.
Speaker 1: But also another thing that you said that I'd actually
Speaker 1: saved this post on your page the other day that
Speaker 1: you think that the bigger the food, the more likely
Speaker 1: it is to be a choking hazard. But actually the food,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, needs.
Speaker 2: To be bigger, smaller, ash it is or you cut
Speaker 2: them in.
Speaker 1: Half and again choking and gagging. Like, there are just
Speaker 1: so many things that it's so valuable to have this information.
Speaker 1: I love that your page is constantly reaffirming these messages,
Speaker 1: so it's just giving you're getting the reminders.
Speaker 2: It's giving you this what you need to know in
Speaker 2: order to be able to feed your baby and feel
Speaker 2: confident and feel in control. But there are two critical
Speaker 2: nutrients that babies often don't get enough of, and one
Speaker 2: of those, and you were talking about brisket, is iron.
Speaker 2: Iron is so important first of all, like particularly for
Speaker 2: a premature baby hasn't got the iron stores that a
Speaker 2: full time baby has. But iron really you need to
Speaker 2: give iron rich foods twice a day, which sounds like wow,
Speaker 2: that sounds really difficult, but it's not. Because you can
Speaker 2: give porridge which contains iron. However, if you give a
Speaker 2: meat source of iron, like red meat or the dark
Speaker 2: meat of the chicken or egg, that is well absorbed
Speaker 2: by a baby or a child or an adult. But
Speaker 2: if you give spinach or porridge or something contains iron
Speaker 2: which is plant based, you can't absorb it unless you
Speaker 2: have written and see at the same meal. So you
Speaker 2: think you're giving you a child iron, but you're actually
Speaker 2: not because you're not absorbing it.
Speaker 1: So it's the.
Speaker 2: Combination of things that children eat that is really important.
Speaker 2: So if you're going to have porridge, put it together
Speaker 2: with berries, and the other thing is essential fatty acids
Speaker 2: omega threes. Our brain is made up primarily of omiga threes,
Speaker 2: so it's very important for the development of a baby's
Speaker 2: brain to have oily fish and also for their visual
Speaker 2: development and to boost their immunity. And a lot of children,
Speaker 2: especially if they're brought up on like package baby food,
Speaker 2: do not get oily fish. You really have to cook
Speaker 2: it yourself. And salmon is such a great food and
Speaker 2: they should have it twice a week.
Speaker 3: It's really important.
Speaker 2: I make this really delicious meal, and it's just you
Speaker 2: can cook the salmon in a microwave and then I
Speaker 2: saute tomatoes with a little bit of cheese, and then
Speaker 2: I add some steam carrots, and I put the salmon
Speaker 2: and the steam carrots, tomato and cheese sauce together and
Speaker 2: I blend it and it's absolutely delicious and I want
Speaker 2: to eat it.
Speaker 1: I love how many of your receipes I save all
Speaker 1: of the words. If they're lessen five ingredients, I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, that is me.
Speaker 1: That's doable. And it feels you feel so accomplished when
Speaker 1: you make something at home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as well, you can't go on it's like step
Speaker 2: by step.
Speaker 3: It's so easy.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the app like and you have
Speaker 2: it in your pocket so or in your bag, and
Speaker 2: so when you go into the supermarket, you'll never be
Speaker 2: at a loss of what to cook. You can just
Speaker 2: put in broccoli, chicken six months old, or I want
Speaker 2: to make something for my family's dinner. And there's just
Speaker 2: so many recipes there that are simple and quick, will
Speaker 2: be delicious and you can freeze. You know, it's been
Speaker 2: my life's work that out.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: I think it's just so easy to use it in
Speaker 2: a way, it's better than the book because you can
Speaker 2: do can't do with a book. Yeah, it's always with.
Speaker 1: You on what are the most popular recipes? Are you
Speaker 1: surprised ever by the ones you put out and then
Speaker 1: the deck like do you say the downloads.
Speaker 2: Of specific Yes, I mean they are the really simple ones.
Speaker 2: So also is really popular anything really? Yeah? I mean
Speaker 2: like I do a carrot tomato cheese sauce with orso
Speaker 2: that's really popular. And then I created because my son
Speaker 2: would not eat chicken. I made these chicken and apple
Speaker 2: balls because you liked apple, so I thought if I
Speaker 2: put the apple with the chicken, that might get them
Speaker 2: to eat it. So I took chicken thigh because it's
Speaker 2: really rich and iron, and I mixed it with some
Speaker 2: bread crumbs, some chopped onions, some thyme egg, and the
Speaker 2: chicken and grated apple and mid into little balls. And
Speaker 2: again you can bake them in the oven, you can
Speaker 2: cook in the air fryer. He absolutely loved them. From
Speaker 2: that day on, he loved chicken. So my chicken apple
Speaker 2: walls are like one of my signature recipes. They were
Speaker 2: in my first book, The Complete Baby and Tittle Meal Planner,
Speaker 2: which is still a huge best seller. It must come
Speaker 2: into nineteen different variations of that book. Nows. I keep
Speaker 2: on updating it recipes to it, but it's a really
Speaker 2: really popular book. And my lentil pures are really popular
Speaker 2: that babies like lentils, and nobody would think of doing that.
Speaker 2: And then strange combinations like my avocado and banana mash together.
Speaker 1: Oh have we do that? And that was by accident.
Speaker 2: I know. It's so good that and it's also something
Speaker 2: you can take with you. And there's one recipe which
Speaker 2: sounds like wow, that sounds awful, but actually babies love it.
Speaker 2: It's whitefish. I use cold and then I put orange
Speaker 2: juice on it, and I put grated cheese and crushed
Speaker 2: corn flakes and I put it in the micrave and
Speaker 2: it takes like two and a half to three minutes.
Speaker 2: And the orange juice and the cheese and the corn
Speaker 2: flakes they mix with the fish. It's absolutely delicious and
Speaker 2: it's so quick and easy, and people go crazy for it.
Speaker 1: But now it's in the pallet.
Speaker 2: It's an amazing it's an amazing recipe.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And in this book, which is a fun, fast and
Speaker 2: easy cookbook, which is a cookbook for teaching children how
Speaker 2: to cook, I do these cookies. They are unbelievable. They
Speaker 2: oat and raisin cookies. They only have like six ingredients.
Speaker 2: We make them every week at home. They are the
Speaker 2: best cookies you'll ever have, and you cannot go wrong
Speaker 2: with them. You just put all the ingredients together in
Speaker 2: a bowl, roll them together, flatten it onto a baking dish,
Speaker 2: and ten minutes later you've got these homemade oat and
Speaker 2: raisin cookies. The whole house smells so inviting and incredible.
Speaker 2: They're so good, it's amazing. And I'm doing an influencer
Speaker 2: event tomorrow and I'm making my carrot cake energy balls
Speaker 2: and they're really good. They've got no sugar in them.
Speaker 2: They're made with dates and oats and some raisins, some
Speaker 2: grated carrots and they're just like all put together and
Speaker 2: you don't need to cook them at all, and some
Speaker 2: desiccated coconut. They're absolutely fabulous. Again, great stack. And that's
Speaker 2: in my finger food book.
Speaker 1: This is a whole wanting so many recipes.
Speaker 2: It's so quick and so easy and like, just make
Speaker 2: your life. I mean, I think food is so important.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine life without food?
Speaker 1: I honestly think about.
Speaker 3: Food all the time.
Speaker 2: I think about what I'm going to cook, what are
Speaker 2: I going to eat? What am I going to make
Speaker 2: for dinner? And what Michel and are going to eat.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just I'm sassive food. That's my job.
Speaker 1: That brings up another question I selfishly have with the
Speaker 1: balance between things like cookies or balls or muffins. I
Speaker 1: find it's, you know, pretty safe to assume Tady will
Speaker 1: love a muffin or he'll have a bit of banana bread.
Speaker 1: There's a certain form factor that's kind of soft and
Speaker 1: caky that he'll almost always love. But I want to
Speaker 1: get my iron, my veggies into him. So when it
Speaker 1: comes to the main meal versus dessert or main meal
Speaker 1: versus treat balance, do you sort of offer them both
Speaker 1: in one meal like you would an adult. You'd have
Speaker 1: your main meal, then you'd have dessert, or would you
Speaker 1: do main meal savory and then the cookies would be
Speaker 1: for snacks in between? Is there like a system that
Speaker 1: we should be being guided by so they don't get,
Speaker 1: you know, expect the cookie and then not eat their
Speaker 1: their savory food.
Speaker 2: I think this thing that children need loads of snacks
Speaker 2: during the day is actually not great. And actually, if
Speaker 2: you're going to you've got to think about your snacks
Speaker 2: as being part of their overall good nutrition. So like
Speaker 2: having cut up fruit, because whole fruit and a fruit bowl.
Speaker 3: They just walk past.
Speaker 2: But cut off fruit is very inviting and looks very
Speaker 2: colorful on a plate, So that is a good snack.
Speaker 2: And all these snacks in the supermarket that says it's
Speaker 2: got carrot in it, and when you look on the
Speaker 2: back it's like three percent carrot, which is why eat
Speaker 2: a carrot?
Speaker 3: What's wrong with a carrot?
Speaker 2: You know? And like cut up carrots have a hommer step,
Speaker 2: and you know, these kind of things are great snacks.
Speaker 2: Or cheese is a great snack, or make a pasta salad,
Speaker 2: that's a great snack. I don't think these packaged snacks
Speaker 2: from supermarkets. They're just like they're puffed up corn with
Speaker 2: a spray of carrot on them. For me, there's no
Speaker 2: place in them. It just fills up a child's time,
Speaker 2: which is already very small with calories that are not
Speaker 2: giving them any nutrition. So I think snacks should be
Speaker 2: a good part of their diet and think of them
Speaker 2: as fruit and veg cheese, that kind of thing. When
Speaker 2: they have a good meal, yes I give them a
Speaker 2: cookie or something, or an ice cream or something afterwards,
Speaker 2: because that can be it's a good food. Ice Cream
Speaker 2: has dairy and it. Cookies have the good things in it. Muffins.
Speaker 2: I do an apple and carrot muffin and they're good,
Speaker 2: and we all like this, you know, finish with something sweet.
Speaker 2: But as I said, like sweet things between meals attack
Speaker 2: children's teeth, and the more like sticky they are, they
Speaker 2: tax teeth even more. And children are going to have
Speaker 2: teeth extracted at very young age because we're giving them
Speaker 2: too many sacks in between meals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so join them to the meal, like at the
Speaker 1: end of the meal.
Speaker 2: And give them like healthy snacks that won't damage their teeth.
Speaker 2: Cheese is one of the best things to give cheese cheese,
Speaker 2: So do we do that? Yes, cheese cheese e morcializes
Speaker 2: the acid on children's teeth. No way to give us
Speaker 2: apples at school, and that's the worst thing because apples
Speaker 2: are acidic and they're not good for your teeth at all.
Speaker 1: Have you found over the years that you've been doing
Speaker 1: this that I mean, I feel like the literature on
Speaker 1: parenting generally, but food specifically changes so rapidly that there
Speaker 1: are some things that we used to do and then
Speaker 1: suddenly it's like do the opposite, like allergen exposure and
Speaker 1: things like that.
Speaker 2: Things changing. Yeah, we're learning all the time. There's so
Speaker 2: much we need to learn. I mean, we just to
Speaker 2: make all our bottles up and just put them in
Speaker 2: the fridge for the whole day, and I can't do that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean our babies lived, they were fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just.
Speaker 3: You can worry too much sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also like breastfeeding, Yes, I mean breastfeeding was great,
Speaker 2: but if you can't breastfeed your silk child's still going
Speaker 2: to do well. You formerly don't have to feel guilty
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, it's too much guilt put on parents.
Speaker 2: But I think you know, home cooking is a joy
Speaker 2: if it's not too complicated, and I try to make
Speaker 2: it so easy that you want to do it and
Speaker 2: you feel good about your child eating something you've made.
Speaker 2: But I also think there are many times in your
Speaker 2: week when you just can't cook. And then what I've
Speaker 2: developed in my ready meals, which are frozen and locked
Speaker 2: in goodness, are a life saver for parents and they
Speaker 2: know that they're child's eating good meal and the child's
Speaker 2: enjoying it. And it's a great pleasure that I've been
Speaker 2: able to do that I've been able to create something
Speaker 2: that wasn't there, that there was only long life food
Speaker 2: for children. There was nothing frozen, nothing as good as
Speaker 2: this in Australia and it's really coolt on and I'm
Speaker 2: I'm really happy. You know, if Natasha hadn't lived and
Speaker 2: hadn't died young or doubt whether any of this would
Speaker 2: have happened.
Speaker 1: I mean, what a legacy for her. She couldn't hope
Speaker 1: to have had a more incredible No.
Speaker 2: I didn't really understand when I was writing my first
Speaker 2: book what it would actually global food business. I would
Speaker 2: never have believed that because I couldn't get the book
Speaker 2: published for life, you know, at all. And so this
Speaker 2: has been a dream of mine. And I'm always doing
Speaker 2: new things. So I'm going to bring out a tablewear
Speaker 2: range in Australia probably later this year. So we just
Speaker 2: developed it and that would be lovely. And you know,
Speaker 2: I'm always doing new restes for my app has new
Speaker 2: recipes every single week.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: There's always a lot going on.
Speaker 2: And I work with a lot of hotels over the
Speaker 2: world and do children's menus, I do cruise liners, so
Speaker 2: you know, all sorts of weird places.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that is a wonderful place to finish.
Speaker 1: We weren't recording when you first told this amazing story.
Speaker 1: But this journey has led you not into all of
Speaker 1: our households, and if any parent listening hasn't already been
Speaker 1: introduced to your frozen meals, I mean you will have
Speaker 1: seen in my stories how much they say of our
Speaker 1: lives weekly. So I will include all the links, of
Speaker 1: course to the resources in the show notes. But what
Speaker 1: are some of the crazy, crazy experiences that this has
Speaker 1: led you to? You mentioned you were in a downing
Speaker 1: street with some famous actors, Like, what are some of
Speaker 1: the craziest rooms you've ended up in that you never expected?
Speaker 1: And tell us about your charity work.
Speaker 2: So I was asked to present paul Charity of the
Speaker 2: Year and the winner was a charity called Julia's House,
Speaker 2: and it was a hospice for children who have life
Speaker 2: threatening diseases and will probably die by the age of thirteen.
Speaker 2: I've never heard of it, so I thought I would
Speaker 2: go and visit them. But I thought me going to
Speaker 2: visit them would be quite boring, but me going to
Speaker 2: visit them with my dogs would be much more entertaining.
Speaker 2: So I brought my dogs and the children had the
Speaker 2: best time, and then I just thought they don't get
Speaker 2: any public funding. What can I do to help them?
Speaker 2: And I'd been to a few cocktail parties at Downing Street,
Speaker 2: which is the government okay, number ten.
Speaker 1: Number ten, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wrote a Samantha Camera at the time, and she'd
Speaker 2: had a child who had been to a hospice. I
Speaker 2: even know she died very young as well. And I
Speaker 2: wrote her and I said, like Amnuel Carmel, I sent
Speaker 2: us some of my books. She said, oh, I know
Speaker 2: exactly who you are, and I used your books.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows you never need to introduce yourself.
Speaker 2: Anyway, so she said, yes, you know, you pick a
Speaker 2: date and we'll host it. And then the original hospice
Speaker 2: was in Dorset in the country, and I looked up
Speaker 2: all the people that lived in Dorset and one of them.
Speaker 1: Was Guy Ritchie.
Speaker 2: So I invited, well, we invited him. Most people don't
Speaker 2: turn down an invitation to Downing Street. And he came
Speaker 2: with his wife. Was very stunning, and he was very
Speaker 2: taken with the charity. And he then said he wanted
Speaker 2: to go and visit the charity where they have this
Speaker 2: beautiful building and the children can come there and be
Speaker 2: looked after. And also like when it comes to the
Speaker 2: end of their life they can actually be there with
Speaker 2: their parents.
Speaker 3: It's a beautiful place and he.
Speaker 2: Was so taken with it that he decides that he
Speaker 2: would do an event in his country house in Dorset
Speaker 2: and invite a few of his friends. And his friends
Speaker 2: happened to be Robert Downey guy, so this is quite
Speaker 2: an event and he had a shoot I think it
Speaker 2: was Clay pidge and shooting, not actual live animals, and
Speaker 2: a lunch and he raised one and a half million
Speaker 2: pounds and with that we built another hospice in Wiltshire
Speaker 2: and Robert down Junior was kind enough, he was doing
Speaker 2: iron Man at the time to give a lot of
Speaker 2: the props from iron Man to the hospital, so when
Speaker 2: you walk in it's like this huge iron Man, like
Speaker 2: all the whole thing and like and there's amazing and
Speaker 2: it was just amazing what they did. And yeah, so
Speaker 2: they have two hospices now and I think people don't
Speaker 2: realize that it's a massive pressure on the family. Very
Speaker 2: often they have one child who's terribly sick and two
Speaker 2: other children and then the hospice will take the sick
Speaker 2: child for a day so they can spend time with
Speaker 2: the other two children and very often, like parents split
Speaker 2: up because of the pressure and the stress, and it's
Speaker 2: just a wonderful thing. And I felt so like akin
Speaker 2: to it because my child died in a cold hospital
Speaker 2: and I know what it's like to lose a child,
Speaker 2: and also like, you know, helping them get over the
Speaker 2: death of their child. And you know, I go there
Speaker 2: and I see the children and I do a lot
Speaker 2: of work with them, and recently we had a lot
Speaker 2: of fun. We've got a lot of like these beautiful
Speaker 2: statues and I have lots of different people painting them
Speaker 2: and they're all over at the city. And then they
Speaker 2: went for auction and we raised hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 2: pounds for the hospice. So I've been very active with them.
Speaker 2: And it's nice to put something back and see the
Speaker 2: children's faces light up, because even though they have short lives,
Speaker 2: they can have happy lives. You know, every day really
Speaker 2: counts when you know that you've have a limited life.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, what a beautiful way to finish and a belle.
Speaker 1: You are truly an incredible human being, and it's just
Speaker 1: been a you. I mean, you're in our house every
Speaker 1: night anyway.
Speaker 3: In your kitchen.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I know I say it all the time, but especially
Speaker 1: in this chapter of my life. Gosh, I feel so
Speaker 1: lucky to have a platform that just gives me an
Speaker 1: excuse to sit down with people as clever as Annabelle. Literally,
Speaker 1: her brand has been all over our home for months now,
Speaker 1: and then I use she's coming to Australia and would
Speaker 1: be open to jumping on the show. It just doesn't
Speaker 1: get more exciting than this. I'll share the link to
Speaker 1: her meals, her books and her incredible app that we mentioned,
Speaker 1: And if you did find this episode useful, please do
Speaker 1: share with any takeaways or even any questions, tagging at
Speaker 1: Annabelle Carmel and us to thank her for her time
Speaker 1: and wisdom and keep growing the neighborhood as far and
Speaker 1: wide as possible. In the meantime, there are so many
Speaker 1: more sees of bebe episodes brewing and coming your way
Speaker 1: on single motherhood, modern working motherhood, expectations, weaning, and so
Speaker 1: much more. If there's anything that you'd like covered, or
Speaker 1: any experts you'd like to hear from, please also never
Speaker 1: hesitate to send a DM. It may take me multiple
Speaker 1: business days slash business weeks to get back to you,
Speaker 1: but I will get there eventually. I hope you're having
Speaker 1: a wonderful week and are seizing your yea. The h