WEBVTT - A Very Awkward Oscars & That Manosphere Doco 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:16.233 --> 0:00:18.793 Hello, and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what 0:00:18.834 --> 0:00:21.954 women are actually talking about on Monday, the sixteenth of March. 0:00:22.594 --> 0:00:23.954 I'm Holly Wayne Wright. 0:00:23.914 --> 0:00:26.514 And I'm Claire Stevens and I'm Amelia Lastov. 0:00:26.554 --> 0:00:28.394 And the reason I sound a bit scattered is because 0:00:28.394 --> 0:00:32.114 I'm very excited. Regular out louders well know, I'm a 0:00:32.153 --> 0:00:35.634 big Oscars fan. I used to work in celebrity magazines. 0:00:35.674 --> 0:00:37.274 This was like the biggest day of the year. I 0:00:37.274 --> 0:00:40.394 love my movies, I love my stars. I am amped. 0:00:40.473 --> 0:00:42.314 And today we're going to give you all the gossip. 0:00:42.314 --> 0:00:43.634 We're going to give you all the things that grabbed 0:00:43.634 --> 0:00:46.434 our attention, the frocks we loved. We're not running through, 0:00:46.513 --> 0:00:49.034 like blow by blow, everything that happened and whether or 0:00:49.034 --> 0:00:50.873 not it should have done. We're just going to give 0:00:50.873 --> 0:00:53.513 you what grabbed our attention. And there will be a 0:00:53.513 --> 0:00:54.994 few spoilers in here too. 0:00:55.194 --> 0:00:59.993 Plus the Louis Theroux documentary everyone's talking about and our 0:01:00.234 --> 0:01:03.874 quite stringent attempts to find a few glimmers of hope 0:01:03.914 --> 0:01:04.354 within it. 0:01:04.674 --> 0:01:08.234 And I want to talk about reply only. Frank maybe 0:01:08.314 --> 0:01:09.594 you are one of them. 0:01:09.634 --> 0:01:12.834 But first in case you missed it. In Batshit Theories 0:01:12.874 --> 0:01:14.834 of the Week. In case you missed it, there's a 0:01:14.874 --> 0:01:18.114 whole thing going on about if you put a picture 0:01:18.554 --> 0:01:22.074 of Timothy's challomay, we we'll talk more about our chalo 0:01:22.114 --> 0:01:25.354 maay later next to a picture of Henry Cavell. Do 0:01:25.394 --> 0:01:30.274 we all know who he is? Handsome British, Yeah, British, 0:01:30.474 --> 0:01:36.034 British movie star who you find more attractive, says more 0:01:36.074 --> 0:01:38.674 about you than your taste. Goes this theory, let me 0:01:38.794 --> 0:01:41.914 just explain and then we'll unpack why it may or 0:01:41.994 --> 0:01:45.434 may indeed be nonsense. In the interests of bursting my bubble, 0:01:45.474 --> 0:01:48.194 I follow a magazine called ev on Instagram. We've talked 0:01:48.194 --> 0:01:51.394 about Evie on this show. It's like in America, it's 0:01:51.394 --> 0:01:55.034 like the conservative Cosmo. So it's kind of sells itself 0:01:55.034 --> 0:01:58.154 as like a woman's lifestyle site, magazine whatever. But it's 0:01:58.194 --> 0:02:01.074 all very like how to please your husband, don't be promiscuous, 0:02:01.114 --> 0:02:02.714 get married quickly, all that kind of stuff. 0:02:02.794 --> 0:02:02.994 Right. 0:02:03.394 --> 0:02:06.634 They've had this post up about challow may and Cavell 0:02:07.354 --> 0:02:11.234 says in the latest Internet discourse some women on x 0:02:11.353 --> 0:02:14.913 this is on Twitter claiming Henry Cavell isn't that attractive. 0:02:14.994 --> 0:02:18.674 But there may actually be scientific explanation for why some 0:02:18.754 --> 0:02:23.434 women say they prefer Timothy Chalomaye instead. Research suggests that 0:02:23.514 --> 0:02:27.314 women on hormonal birth control tend to be more drawn 0:02:27.354 --> 0:02:31.994 to men with softer, more feminine features. Coincidence, asks Evie, 0:02:32.034 --> 0:02:35.474 because they're just asking questions, Amelia. This has been jumped 0:02:35.514 --> 0:02:39.074 on by lots of conservative commentators. Lauren Chen sent a 0:02:39.114 --> 0:02:42.314 tweet completely viral, and then Elon Musk of course shared it, 0:02:42.594 --> 0:02:45.354 where she said, thinking Timothy Shalomay is more attractive than 0:02:45.394 --> 0:02:47.633 Henry Cavell is what happens when you've been on birth 0:02:47.674 --> 0:02:48.714 control for ten years. 0:02:49.034 --> 0:02:52.434 Elon Musk actually reposted it with the bulls eye emoji. 0:02:52.554 --> 0:02:54.754 And I just want to know who does he think 0:02:54.794 --> 0:02:55.474 he looks like? 0:02:55.994 --> 0:03:00.114 He looks like Henry cavill And also we know he 0:03:00.154 --> 0:03:03.794 doesn't approve of birth control because he has twenty million children. 0:03:04.314 --> 0:03:07.274 But I'm not a scientist, but Clare Stephens certainly is 0:03:07.314 --> 0:03:10.394 oh definitely, is it true that being on the pill 0:03:10.834 --> 0:03:13.674 or on DHRT, when it comes to it, is going 0:03:13.754 --> 0:03:15.674 to make you fancy, shallow, made more than cavil. 0:03:16.034 --> 0:03:19.154 No, And this is an example, This is an example 0:03:19.474 --> 0:03:21.793 of misinformation on the Internet, which we'll probably get to 0:03:21.794 --> 0:03:26.274 you in a later segment. It is so frustrating to 0:03:26.394 --> 0:03:29.154 look at this. It's wrong on so many levels. I'll 0:03:29.154 --> 0:03:32.074 start with a scientific level and then we'll move to logic. 0:03:32.594 --> 0:03:36.194 So what if you find both of them attractive? Yeah, 0:03:36.234 --> 0:03:39.074 what does that say the state of your hor I think. 0:03:38.834 --> 0:03:40.674 You're a hoe. 0:03:41.354 --> 0:03:42.714 Ev Magazine would. 0:03:44.034 --> 0:03:46.674 Elon Musk would say you're a hoe. So that was 0:03:46.754 --> 0:03:50.514 based on a twenty twelve study. What Evie magazine was citing. 0:03:50.594 --> 0:03:52.474 That's quite a long time twenty twelve, and there was 0:03:52.514 --> 0:03:55.594 another big study in two thousand and eight. You won't 0:03:55.594 --> 0:03:58.194 believe it, but there's been studies since, and you won't 0:03:58.194 --> 0:04:00.674 believe it. But the study since have actually showed that 0:04:00.674 --> 0:04:04.634 that was a complete non fabrication. So study in twenty 0:04:04.794 --> 0:04:08.514 nineteen found no evidence that women using oral contraceptives had 0:04:08.554 --> 0:04:12.954 weaker preferences for male facial masculinity than did women not 0:04:13.114 --> 0:04:16.313 using oral contraceptives. And then in twenty twenty five, that 0:04:16.433 --> 0:04:19.433 was just last year. You may remember, there was a 0:04:19.514 --> 0:04:22.834 randomized control trial that was like a double blind study. 0:04:22.914 --> 0:04:27.234 That is the golden standard of any kind of scientific research. 0:04:27.513 --> 0:04:29.873 So it meant that they randomly assigned some women to 0:04:29.914 --> 0:04:32.153 be on the pill, randomly assigned some women to be 0:04:32.193 --> 0:04:35.713 on placebo, and then they did this experiment no statistically 0:04:35.714 --> 0:04:40.113 significant effect of oral contraceptives on preferences. 0:04:39.553 --> 0:04:43.273 For facial hoping to not get pregnant. 0:04:42.193 --> 0:04:47.034 I know, right, it's like, oh, sorry, we didn't think 0:04:47.034 --> 0:04:51.833 about that ethical consideration. But the fact that an article 0:04:51.953 --> 0:04:56.954 can be written that acts like it's citing scientific research 0:04:56.993 --> 0:05:02.154 and then ignores the last fourteen years of that scientific 0:05:02.193 --> 0:05:05.833 research is so infuriating. So there's that aspect, But then 0:05:05.873 --> 0:05:10.073 there's the logic. So that Evey Magazine article tries to 0:05:10.154 --> 0:05:12.753 argue at the end that the big problem here, the 0:05:12.794 --> 0:05:14.794 worry for women is that what's going to happen is 0:05:14.834 --> 0:05:17.234 you're going to be on hormone or birth control, and 0:05:17.313 --> 0:05:19.914 then you're going to marry someone and then you're going 0:05:19.993 --> 0:05:20.234 to go. 0:05:20.234 --> 0:05:23.634 Off to Michael and you'll want Henry Carol. 0:05:24.154 --> 0:05:27.594 And it's like, you know what else might actually affect 0:05:27.993 --> 0:05:30.753 what women get tied to for their entire lives having 0:05:30.794 --> 0:05:33.634 a baby with that man. Hence birth control, Like do 0:05:33.674 --> 0:05:36.834 you know what I mean? Like before birth control, women, 0:05:37.553 --> 0:05:42.034 the freedom that birth control has offered women outweighs. 0:05:41.474 --> 0:05:42.873 That to choose a mate. 0:05:43.073 --> 0:05:45.873 Yes, even if that were true. The other thing that 0:05:45.873 --> 0:05:48.234 doesn't make sense is that at the beginning of that 0:05:48.354 --> 0:05:50.914 article they write that it's easy to watch a James 0:05:50.953 --> 0:05:53.794 Dean movie and wonder why there aren't men like that anymore. 0:05:54.113 --> 0:05:56.514 We sat in a cinema a few weeks ago and 0:05:56.594 --> 0:06:01.313 watched women salivate over Jacob Alordi no bless him, who's 0:06:01.354 --> 0:06:04.954 pretty bloody. Similar, there's Adam Driver, there's Paul mescal And 0:06:04.993 --> 0:06:07.313 then they have a line about how a tea teen 0:06:07.313 --> 0:06:11.753 age girl is more likely to lust over Lil Huddy 0:06:12.274 --> 0:06:15.393 than Jacob a lord who is little Huddy. And also 0:06:15.753 --> 0:06:18.393 teenage girls shouldn't be the consideration here because they're less 0:06:18.393 --> 0:06:20.113 likely to be your birth control than women in the twenties. 0:06:21.794 --> 0:06:24.593 All my fun I just want to come with the 0:06:24.633 --> 0:06:26.794 side of culture war, and I was enjoying it. 0:06:27.234 --> 0:06:30.273 Also, I like, I'm not on birth control, but I 0:06:30.313 --> 0:06:32.393 am pregnant, so that might effect. 0:06:35.794 --> 0:06:37.433 But you're a Shallama aunt. 0:06:37.594 --> 0:06:40.553 Yeah, but birth control, no birth control, pregnancy, no pregnancy. 0:06:40.633 --> 0:06:43.713 I go Shalla May over Henry Cavill. I think Henry 0:06:43.753 --> 0:06:44.914 Cavill looks a little bit more. 0:06:46.674 --> 0:06:52.713 That's science. That is science. So we have been watching 0:06:52.753 --> 0:06:57.074 the Oscars on and off all morning, all lunchtime. I 0:06:57.113 --> 0:07:00.474 heard some whoops around the office, not many. It wasn't 0:07:00.513 --> 0:07:03.594 the most exciting of ceremonies they were. 0:07:03.834 --> 0:07:04.794 It had its moments. 0:07:04.794 --> 0:07:07.273 I had its moments. We're going to be talking about 0:07:07.313 --> 0:07:10.393 made people whoop in a moment. But we can't talk 0:07:10.434 --> 0:07:13.794 about the Oscars without talking about dresses. Now, Mia is 0:07:13.834 --> 0:07:18.274 going to bring her forensic some may say judgmental view 0:07:18.474 --> 0:07:22.353 on fashion and the Red Carpet tore tomorrow's episode in detail, 0:07:22.393 --> 0:07:24.393 as well as the after party outfits, which are always 0:07:24.434 --> 0:07:27.874 more interesting these days. But friends, we have to do 0:07:28.114 --> 0:07:30.953 a who you like best on the Red Carpet? Amelia, 0:07:31.514 --> 0:07:32.034 I got two. 0:07:32.074 --> 0:07:34.913 I got a man and a woman. Best dressed woman 0:07:35.274 --> 0:07:39.514 Rose r Rose Berner Indior Anne Hathaway went for a 0:07:39.554 --> 0:07:42.234 similar look. They were both kind of wearing some might 0:07:42.314 --> 0:07:47.074 say wallpaper adjacent designs, but they both looked beautiful. But 0:07:47.234 --> 0:07:50.033 Rose looks like a movie star, and by that I 0:07:50.114 --> 0:07:54.114 mean she looks like an exceptionally attractive person who was 0:07:54.154 --> 0:07:55.114 having a lot of fun. 0:07:55.514 --> 0:07:59.434 And interestingly I made the same observation, but I feel 0:07:59.434 --> 0:08:02.674 like Rose Burns was like the modern version of that 0:08:02.794 --> 0:08:05.673 dress and the jewelry and that kind of thing, whereas 0:08:05.714 --> 0:08:07.234 Anne Hathaway's was like the old. 0:08:07.194 --> 0:08:09.434 Well she got. She had like elbow length gloves on. 0:08:09.554 --> 0:08:09.874 Yes. 0:08:09.994 --> 0:08:10.314 Yes. 0:08:10.354 --> 0:08:15.034 And my best dressed man is Pedro Pascal, who did 0:08:15.074 --> 0:08:18.033 not have his mustache. I think there was some gasps 0:08:18.074 --> 0:08:20.634 of dismay in the office when he showed up on 0:08:20.674 --> 0:08:22.834 the red carpet clean shaven. No one's ever seen him 0:08:22.834 --> 0:08:23.833 aout the mustache before. 0:08:23.874 --> 0:08:24.994 What you just heard me do. 0:08:25.114 --> 0:08:27.713 Yeah, the mustache made its way onto Leo's face. 0:08:28.074 --> 0:08:30.354 It did crawl across the red carpet clan. 0:08:32.874 --> 0:08:34.354 I quite liked Leo. 0:08:35.914 --> 0:08:39.714 I did not. I like clean shaven Pedro. He was 0:08:39.754 --> 0:08:43.314 in white channel, he had this big silk and feather 0:08:43.394 --> 0:08:45.994 brooch on. And what I love about him is that 0:08:46.034 --> 0:08:48.194 he always looked so well moisturized. 0:08:48.634 --> 0:08:51.994 Yeah, you're right. I thought the boys, though, did you 0:08:52.034 --> 0:08:53.834 notice they were a lot of them were either all 0:08:53.874 --> 0:08:56.834 in white like Chalamaie like fool full white, or all 0:08:56.874 --> 0:08:58.514 in black so like black timeless. 0:08:58.594 --> 0:08:59.154 That's true. 0:08:59.194 --> 0:09:03.354 But I think our Jacob classic three piece suit with 0:09:03.434 --> 0:09:05.234 the waistcoat, I mean, I know, it's hard to look 0:09:05.234 --> 0:09:08.274 bad when you're seventeen feet to Anie took his mom. 0:09:08.754 --> 0:09:10.354 He did, he did take you. 0:09:11.114 --> 0:09:12.914 You have a little bit of an issue there. 0:09:13.154 --> 0:09:16.314 It's a deflection because who is dating people would find 0:09:16.354 --> 0:09:18.754 a little bit problematic. So he takes his mom and 0:09:18.794 --> 0:09:20.394 everyone's like, oh, taking his. 0:09:20.394 --> 0:09:21.714 Mom because he's dating. 0:09:21.914 --> 0:09:23.874 He's dating Olivia. 0:09:24.594 --> 0:09:26.274 Olivia talked about this last week. 0:09:26.354 --> 0:09:29.954 Yeah, Olivia Jade, who's who was involved in the college 0:09:29.954 --> 0:09:33.554 admissions candle. I just think she's so beautiful. But to be. 0:09:33.554 --> 0:09:36.874 Fair, the serious actors always take their moms. Leo took 0:09:36.914 --> 0:09:39.594 his mom for years. Charala Maai used to take his mom. 0:09:39.634 --> 0:09:42.634 He still doesn't walk with Kylie, like not really. I 0:09:42.634 --> 0:09:44.953 think the serious actors are always like, we're not going 0:09:44.994 --> 0:09:45.754 to talk about this. 0:09:46.074 --> 0:09:49.794 Yeah, true, honorable mention to Jacob Lordie's scruffy hair. You 0:09:49.914 --> 0:09:53.594 just know that that particular scruff took hours. It was 0:09:53.634 --> 0:09:56.594 just so intentional, but it was so beautiful. I'm going 0:09:56.674 --> 0:09:59.994 to be boring and agree with Amelia that Rose Byrne 0:09:59.994 --> 0:10:03.994 was absolutely best stressed. But I'll also mention I thought 0:10:04.074 --> 0:10:08.994 Demie Moore's look was. 0:10:07.234 --> 0:10:09.674 Too many feathers, many feathers. 0:10:09.794 --> 0:10:13.034 I mean, our Nick was in feathers too. 0:10:12.914 --> 0:10:15.674 And so was Tayana Taylor who I did think looked amazing, 0:10:15.714 --> 0:10:18.354 and she's been she's from one battle after another, and 0:10:18.434 --> 0:10:21.834 she has been absolutely hammering. The red carpet looks with 0:10:21.874 --> 0:10:24.794 lots of really out sort of out there things, So 0:10:24.874 --> 0:10:27.834 her in those feathers was actually quite yeah, well key 0:10:27.914 --> 0:10:29.514 for her. It looked amazing. 0:10:30.154 --> 0:10:33.394 The other one that, yes, needs it, need to mention 0:10:33.634 --> 0:10:37.594 is Emma Stone looked that color, that fabric, Oh, that 0:10:37.634 --> 0:10:40.954 looked absolutely beautiful. Louisverton a little capslee. 0:10:41.194 --> 0:10:43.754 Emma Stone does not look like Emma Stone anymore. I 0:10:43.794 --> 0:10:46.514 know you've borded me saying this. Bridget Dulaney wrote a 0:10:46.554 --> 0:10:48.394 great piece in The Guardian a couple of days ago 0:10:48.514 --> 0:10:51.314 about how movie stars used to just be like better 0:10:51.354 --> 0:10:53.434 looking than the rest of us, and we could aspire 0:10:53.514 --> 0:10:55.314 to that and we liked looking at them, and it 0:10:55.354 --> 0:10:58.514 was all very uncomplicated. And now movie stars just look 0:10:58.674 --> 0:11:02.594 like AI generated cyborgs. And I have to include a 0:11:02.674 --> 0:11:04.434 number of the people who walk the carpet tonight in 0:11:04.474 --> 0:11:05.114 that category. 0:11:05.394 --> 0:11:07.994 We discussed this all the time. I thought she looked amazing, 0:11:08.274 --> 0:11:10.394 very very thin, but that's her thing. 0:11:10.474 --> 0:11:12.634 But I thought she has the dress, probably the only 0:11:12.634 --> 0:11:14.114 person in the world who could wear that dress. Can 0:11:14.194 --> 0:11:18.874 we just quickly? I hated Timmy's look. I hated the sunglasses. 0:11:19.034 --> 0:11:21.394 I hated the boots. They were like hospital boot. 0:11:21.514 --> 0:11:22.114 Leave the boy aler. 0:11:22.514 --> 0:11:25.314 It was like a double breasted white suit, which I 0:11:25.354 --> 0:11:29.234 think so yes, suits haven't been this controversial since Obama 0:11:29.274 --> 0:11:30.314 wore a tan suit. 0:11:30.474 --> 0:11:34.034 Yeah, you know, I have to award a high degree 0:11:34.114 --> 0:11:38.833 of difficulty right for the very pregnant? Would me Masaku? 0:11:38.954 --> 0:11:41.114 She is from Sinners, she played Annie and Sinners, the 0:11:41.114 --> 0:11:44.394 heart of that movie. Amazing actress, she's about to have 0:11:44.434 --> 0:11:47.394 a baby, and she was like, because Hailey Steinfeld, who's 0:11:47.434 --> 0:11:50.274 also in Sinners, she is also heavily pregnant, and she 0:11:50.354 --> 0:11:53.394 didn't go, but I think that one me was like, no, 0:11:53.594 --> 0:11:57.154 I'm freaking going. And she wore this amazing Louis Vton 0:11:57.314 --> 0:11:59.953 green sequince. But it is not easy to pull off 0:11:59.954 --> 0:12:01.714 a red car and that would have been custom made 0:12:01.754 --> 0:12:05.234 for her, and she looked freaking a million dollars. Anyway, 0:12:05.874 --> 0:12:07.914 that's the Frocks, as we say, he is going to 0:12:07.954 --> 0:12:11.674 do more on that tomorrow. But moving inside, Conan O'Brien 0:12:11.754 --> 0:12:15.354 was hosting now he hosted last year, generally seemed to 0:12:15.354 --> 0:12:18.594 be a pretty safe choice. In these polarizing times. And 0:12:18.674 --> 0:12:21.674 remember America as a millionaires better than anyone half the 0:12:21.714 --> 0:12:24.194 audience hate the other half of the audience. Are you 0:12:24.274 --> 0:12:26.594 going to make jokes for one half of the audience 0:12:26.594 --> 0:12:29.714 and not the other. He kind of played it very safe. 0:12:29.754 --> 0:12:32.034 He did make an Epstein gag that is coming up 0:12:32.074 --> 0:12:35.074 in this Here's a little collection from his opening monologue. 0:12:35.274 --> 0:12:38.594 Great to be back hosting the Oscars. Last year when 0:12:38.594 --> 0:12:42.994 I hosted Los Angeles was on fire, but this year 0:12:43.594 --> 0:12:47.834 everything's going great. Security is extremely tight tonight. I's got 0:12:47.834 --> 0:12:50.954 to mention that. Yeah, I'm told there's concerns about attacks 0:12:50.954 --> 0:12:55.914 from both the opera and ballet communities. They're just mad 0:12:55.954 --> 0:12:59.954 you left out jazz. It's the first time since twenty twelve, 0:13:00.434 --> 0:13:03.714 first time since twenty twelve that there are no British 0:13:03.754 --> 0:13:09.354 actors nominated for Best Actor or Best Actress. Yeah, British 0:13:09.354 --> 0:13:13.074 spokesperson said, yeah, well at least we arrest our pedophiles, 0:13:13.394 --> 0:13:14.834 so we got that going. 0:13:16.474 --> 0:13:17.714 We pay tribute. 0:13:17.394 --> 0:13:21.554 Tonight, not just a film, but to the ideals of 0:13:21.634 --> 0:13:29.314 global artistry, collaboration, patience, resilience and that rarest of qualities 0:13:29.354 --> 0:13:35.674 today optimism. So let us please celebrate. Let us celebrate. 0:13:36.874 --> 0:13:41.034 That last bit was like him saying giving everyone permission 0:13:41.514 --> 0:13:43.594 to have a nice night. Yeah, being like what. 0:13:43.514 --> 0:13:44.314 We do is important. 0:13:44.434 --> 0:13:46.794 I love Conan. I think he's so funny and his 0:13:46.874 --> 0:13:50.594 Hot Ones episode is the greatest twenty minutes of Internet ever. 0:13:51.074 --> 0:13:54.634 But I forgot my AirPods today and I was watching 0:13:54.834 --> 0:13:58.994 him perform without sound, and he looked like a silent 0:13:59.114 --> 0:14:02.554 movie star and he was just trying so hard, and 0:14:02.594 --> 0:14:05.274 there was something about it that felt really old fashioned 0:14:05.314 --> 0:14:05.514 to me. 0:14:05.834 --> 0:14:10.194 Yeah, on the whole ceremony feels and tics of it 0:14:10.274 --> 0:14:12.034 all with him, Yea, I agree. 0:14:12.074 --> 0:14:14.754 And there were several jokes that to me fell flat 0:14:14.874 --> 0:14:18.514 and just felt like absolutely anyone like my dad would 0:14:18.514 --> 0:14:19.994 have made them. There are a couple of good ones. 0:14:20.034 --> 0:14:22.354 I'm glad that it only took a few seconds to 0:14:22.394 --> 0:14:25.234 get the ballet upright joke out of the messing around 0:14:25.234 --> 0:14:25.634 with that. 0:14:27.154 --> 0:14:28.314 And it was nicely delivered. 0:14:28.394 --> 0:14:31.434 Yeah, it's tricky because do you remember for a while 0:14:31.514 --> 0:14:34.194 there the OSCARS was trying to be relevant with its hosts, 0:14:34.194 --> 0:14:36.154 and there was that year when it was unhad the 0:14:36.154 --> 0:14:39.914 way James Frank or whatever, like nobody wanted. 0:14:39.634 --> 0:14:40.114 To do it. 0:14:40.114 --> 0:14:42.234 It was ahead of its time that one, but it 0:14:42.394 --> 0:14:45.634 became like a poison chalice. Nobody wanted that gig because 0:14:45.634 --> 0:14:48.354 it's the most criticized blah blah. So now they've obviously 0:14:48.394 --> 0:14:50.954 just gone, let's keep that. Billy Crystal did it for 0:14:51.034 --> 0:14:52.754 like what seemed like a hundred years. 0:14:52.514 --> 0:14:56.274 And he appeared on stage briefly tonight as well in 0:14:56.354 --> 0:14:59.794 the immemorium section talking about Rob Reiner. But I just 0:14:59.914 --> 0:15:03.074 wonder if in this sort of stripped back TikTok age, 0:15:03.394 --> 0:15:06.634 someone trying as hard as cone and just falls flat. 0:15:07.634 --> 0:15:09.754 And you know, like a lot of the Oscars does 0:15:09.794 --> 0:15:13.154 feel like it's still nineteen eighty two, like the music, 0:15:13.874 --> 0:15:16.634 like when people are coming on and off, the glamorous 0:15:16.714 --> 0:15:19.994 Lady who leads everybody on and office's so weird. Now, 0:15:20.274 --> 0:15:22.034 Emelia and I were talking about the set and how 0:15:22.034 --> 0:15:24.994 it looked really dark and weird, and then I read 0:15:25.114 --> 0:15:27.754 that according to Vanity Fair, the year's stage design is 0:15:27.754 --> 0:15:30.514 meant to represent a calming garden courtyard. 0:15:30.714 --> 0:15:32.434 It doesn't it look like a mausoleum. 0:15:33.394 --> 0:15:35.354 And what's weird is that I feel like with the 0:15:35.354 --> 0:15:40.954 red carpet, the official Oscars red carpet is very of 0:15:40.994 --> 0:15:43.074 the moment. They've got a Millia to Oldenberg and she 0:15:43.154 --> 0:15:46.914 does it and she's so funny, and sometimes that gets 0:15:46.914 --> 0:15:49.554 criticized the idea of like influencers on the red carpet, 0:15:49.834 --> 0:15:52.354 But they're funny and they bring out funny stuff in 0:15:52.554 --> 0:15:55.034 the people they interview. But I agree, I think the 0:15:55.234 --> 0:15:57.994 entire ceremony is too earnest. I think everyone's being too 0:15:57.994 --> 0:16:01.194 earnest all the time. And I'm like, calm down, yeah, 0:16:01.274 --> 0:16:05.434 the ice. I don't need you to. 0:16:04.034 --> 0:16:06.034 To hand it over to Rock Nation, who do like 0:16:06.074 --> 0:16:08.514 the super Bowl and they just need to be like, 0:16:08.794 --> 0:16:11.074 what would you do with the Oscars because it's their 0:16:11.114 --> 0:16:13.514 big night, right And I get it. If I worked 0:16:13.554 --> 0:16:16.034 in that industry, it would be a big deal to 0:16:16.114 --> 0:16:18.834 be there and all that stuff. But it just does feel, 0:16:18.914 --> 0:16:21.914 as you said, Emelia, like it's from another time. Okay, 0:16:22.074 --> 0:16:24.834 we have to get to the biggest upset of the 0:16:24.914 --> 0:16:26.794 night if it's an upset, because we did kind of 0:16:26.794 --> 0:16:29.394 predict it. But three months ago you would have thought 0:16:29.434 --> 0:16:32.994 that chalamay, my little Timmy had a lock on this 0:16:33.594 --> 0:16:37.314 Best Actor nomination and win. He was nominated last year 0:16:37.394 --> 0:16:40.074 for the Bob Dylan Movie. At that point, he made 0:16:40.074 --> 0:16:42.034 a big point about how much he wanted to win 0:16:42.114 --> 0:16:44.954 it and how hard he's been working, and then on 0:16:44.994 --> 0:16:47.914 the Mardi Supreme press tour he's been talking loads about 0:16:47.954 --> 0:16:50.154 the quality of work he's been churning out. I think 0:16:50.154 --> 0:16:52.234 he's been nominated three times in ten years, which is 0:16:52.514 --> 0:16:56.474 a lot. He's only thirty. But he blew it and 0:16:56.514 --> 0:16:59.154 it went to Michael B. Jordan, which is justice because, 0:16:59.154 --> 0:17:02.034 as Emily Vernon pointed out on Friday's show, Michael B. 0:17:02.114 --> 0:17:04.793 Jordan should really have got two awards because he played twins. 0:17:05.434 --> 0:17:09.914 But do we think that the backlash in motion Ameilia. 0:17:09.674 --> 0:17:12.074 The Charla May backlash is here? And I don't just 0:17:12.154 --> 0:17:14.274 know that because you've been taking all the blue tech 0:17:14.314 --> 0:17:17.874 off your Timmy posters around your desk today, Holly. I 0:17:17.914 --> 0:17:20.513 think it started. I can pinpoint exactly when it started 0:17:20.794 --> 0:17:24.274 when he and Kylie Jenner appeared on the Red Carpet 0:17:24.314 --> 0:17:28.154 in those matching orange pleaver outfits. A few months ago 0:17:28.594 --> 0:17:31.354 he was promoting My Supreme. He was wearing orange. But 0:17:31.554 --> 0:17:33.874 I think it was just too much for everyone. It 0:17:33.954 --> 0:17:37.513 was far too naff. From there on, he hasn't recovered 0:17:37.554 --> 0:17:39.234 the ground. In fact, he's lost more with the opera 0:17:39.234 --> 0:17:41.394 and ballet remarks There's an interesting article in The New 0:17:41.474 --> 0:17:45.554 York Times today by Navine Kumar called Wasn't Timothday's Charla 0:17:45.594 --> 0:17:47.954 May is supposed to be a new kind of leading man, 0:17:47.994 --> 0:17:49.994 and I think her premise is really interesting. She makes 0:17:50.034 --> 0:17:52.794 the point that in twenty seventeen, when he burst onto 0:17:52.794 --> 0:17:56.313 the scene, he was in Ladybird, Greta Gowig's movie. He 0:17:56.434 --> 0:17:58.553 was in Call Me by Your Name, there was a 0:17:58.594 --> 0:18:01.554 gay love story. He wore a backless red holter neck 0:18:01.634 --> 0:18:03.714 on the red carpet. We thought he was kind of 0:18:03.794 --> 0:18:05.314 post heterosexual man. 0:18:07.234 --> 0:18:09.474 EV Magazine thinks that's sure. 0:18:09.994 --> 0:18:12.834 But now he's sort of been revealed to not be 0:18:13.114 --> 0:18:15.594 what we all pinned on him or projected on to him. 0:18:15.594 --> 0:18:17.394 And I think we're all just feeling like we were 0:18:17.394 --> 0:18:19.434 sold a bill of goods. Do you think that's right? 0:18:20.074 --> 0:18:22.513 I do? But I also I have to examine my 0:18:22.834 --> 0:18:24.914 attitude about it because I think a lot of it's 0:18:24.954 --> 0:18:27.354 to do with his choice of partner, right, and Kylie Jenner, 0:18:27.434 --> 0:18:30.034 And I don't think that's fair, do you know what 0:18:30.114 --> 0:18:33.914 I mean? Like, I think that our whether it's misogyny, 0:18:33.954 --> 0:18:37.513 whether it's snobbery about Kylie Jenner and the kardashianness of 0:18:37.554 --> 0:18:40.954 it all has rubbed off on him and tainted his brand. 0:18:41.434 --> 0:18:44.154 And the truth of it is, he is incredibly good 0:18:44.194 --> 0:18:46.714 at what he does. Like Marty Supreme, whether you particularly 0:18:46.834 --> 0:18:50.794 like that movie or not, his performance is extraordinary, and 0:18:50.834 --> 0:18:52.594 the same with the Bob Dylan movie and the same 0:18:52.594 --> 0:18:56.674 with everything he does. So he's a great actor. And 0:18:56.714 --> 0:18:58.554 I think that for a long time people were like, oh, 0:18:58.594 --> 0:19:00.474 he knows how to promote a movie and open a movie. 0:19:00.514 --> 0:19:02.513 That was the narrative when Marty Supreme came out, and 0:19:02.514 --> 0:19:05.114 they were like, very few actors can open a movie 0:19:05.114 --> 0:19:06.634 and take it to the top of the box office, 0:19:07.434 --> 0:19:09.914 not gen z but he can. Him and Zende are 0:19:09.914 --> 0:19:13.914 seen as the great saviors of youth cinema. And it's 0:19:14.034 --> 0:19:16.313 like he went too hard, and then I think he 0:19:16.354 --> 0:19:19.353 went too hard, and then the establishment went, yeah, but 0:19:19.394 --> 0:19:21.394 you're not very Ardi, are you, because you're kind of 0:19:21.394 --> 0:19:23.874 with the Kardashians now. And I wonder if there's just 0:19:24.474 --> 0:19:27.194 a bit of old fashioned snobbery at play there, because 0:19:27.234 --> 0:19:30.114 although we've all been gripping our pearls about him saying 0:19:30.114 --> 0:19:33.634 what he said about opera or ballet, he wasn't wrong, 0:19:33.874 --> 0:19:35.994 as in it's not like the average guy in the 0:19:35.994 --> 0:19:37.914 street who's paying to go and see Sinners or Marti 0:19:37.954 --> 0:19:41.194 Supreme is a massive opera ballet fan, but it's given 0:19:41.234 --> 0:19:44.914 the establishment a really good reason to turn stobby on him. 0:19:45.074 --> 0:19:49.594 I reckon he just has the Leonardo DiCaprio cz which 0:19:49.674 --> 0:19:52.074 is he's going to be nominated over and over and 0:19:52.114 --> 0:19:54.074 over again and he's going to lose over it. 0:19:54.914 --> 0:19:56.914 Different to Leo, I was actually going to bring him 0:19:56.994 --> 0:19:59.434 up because I think they're an interesting study. In contrast, 0:19:59.794 --> 0:20:03.474 Leo dates Victoria's Secret Models famously. We kind of all 0:20:03.554 --> 0:20:05.634 just make jokes about it, and it's become part of 0:20:05.634 --> 0:20:08.554 his persona. But he gets cast in the Martins Corsese 0:20:08.714 --> 0:20:11.394