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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what

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Speaker 2: women are actually talking about on Monday, the sixteenth of March.

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Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wayne Wright.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Claire Stevens and I'm Amelia Lastov.

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Speaker 2: And the reason I sound a bit scattered is because

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited. Regular out louders well know, I'm a

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Speaker 2: big Oscars fan. I used to work in celebrity magazines.

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Speaker 2: This was like the biggest day of the year. I

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Speaker 2: love my movies, I love my stars. I am amped.

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Speaker 2: And today we're going to give you all the gossip.

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Speaker 2: We're going to give you all the things that grabbed

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Speaker 2: our attention, the frocks we loved. We're not running through,

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Speaker 2: like blow by blow, everything that happened and whether or

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Speaker 2: not it should have done. We're just going to give

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Speaker 2: you what grabbed our attention. And there will be a

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Speaker 2: few spoilers in here too.

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Speaker 3: Plus the Louis Theroux documentary everyone's talking about and our

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Speaker 3: quite stringent attempts to find a few glimmers of hope

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Speaker 3: within it.

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Speaker 1: And I want to talk about reply only. Frank maybe

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Speaker 1: you are one of them.

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Speaker 2: But first in case you missed it. In Batshit Theories

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Speaker 2: of the Week. In case you missed it, there's a

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Speaker 2: whole thing going on about if you put a picture

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Speaker 2: of Timothy's challomay, we we'll talk more about our chalo

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Speaker 2: maay later next to a picture of Henry Cavell. Do

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Speaker 2: we all know who he is? Handsome British, Yeah, British,

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Speaker 2: British movie star who you find more attractive, says more

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Speaker 2: about you than your taste. Goes this theory, let me

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Speaker 2: just explain and then we'll unpack why it may or

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Speaker 2: may indeed be nonsense. In the interests of bursting my bubble,

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Speaker 2: I follow a magazine called ev on Instagram. We've talked

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Speaker 2: about Evie on this show. It's like in America, it's

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Speaker 2: like the conservative Cosmo. So it's kind of sells itself

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Speaker 2: as like a woman's lifestyle site, magazine whatever. But it's

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Speaker 2: all very like how to please your husband, don't be promiscuous,

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Speaker 2: get married quickly, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: They've had this post up about challow may and Cavell

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Speaker 2: says in the latest Internet discourse some women on x

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Speaker 2: this is on Twitter claiming Henry Cavell isn't that attractive.

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Speaker 2: But there may actually be scientific explanation for why some

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Speaker 2: women say they prefer Timothy Chalomaye instead. Research suggests that

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Speaker 2: women on hormonal birth control tend to be more drawn

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Speaker 2: to men with softer, more feminine features. Coincidence, asks Evie,

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Speaker 2: because they're just asking questions, Amelia. This has been jumped

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Speaker 2: on by lots of conservative commentators. Lauren Chen sent a

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Speaker 2: tweet completely viral, and then Elon Musk of course shared it,

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Speaker 2: where she said, thinking Timothy Shalomay is more attractive than

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Speaker 2: Henry Cavell is what happens when you've been on birth

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Speaker 2: control for ten years.

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk actually reposted it with the bulls eye emoji.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to know who does he think

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Speaker 1: he looks like?

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Speaker 2: He looks like Henry cavill And also we know he

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Speaker 2: doesn't approve of birth control because he has twenty million children.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not a scientist, but Clare Stephens certainly is

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Speaker 2: oh definitely, is it true that being on the pill

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Speaker 2: or on DHRT, when it comes to it, is going

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Speaker 2: to make you fancy, shallow, made more than cavil.

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Speaker 3: No, And this is an example, This is an example

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Speaker 3: of misinformation on the Internet, which we'll probably get to

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Speaker 3: you in a later segment. It is so frustrating to

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Speaker 3: look at this. It's wrong on so many levels. I'll

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Speaker 3: start with a scientific level and then we'll move to logic.

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Speaker 2: So what if you find both of them attractive? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what does that say the state of your hor I think.

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Speaker 3: You're a hoe.

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Speaker 2: Ev Magazine would.

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk would say you're a hoe. So that was

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Speaker 3: based on a twenty twelve study. What Evie magazine was citing.

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Speaker 3: That's quite a long time twenty twelve, and there was

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Speaker 3: another big study in two thousand and eight. You won't

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Speaker 3: believe it, but there's been studies since, and you won't

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Speaker 3: believe it. But the study since have actually showed that

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Speaker 3: that was a complete non fabrication. So study in twenty

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Speaker 3: nineteen found no evidence that women using oral contraceptives had

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Speaker 3: weaker preferences for male facial masculinity than did women not

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Speaker 3: using oral contraceptives. And then in twenty twenty five, that

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Speaker 3: was just last year. You may remember, there was a

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Speaker 3: randomized control trial that was like a double blind study.

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Speaker 3: That is the golden standard of any kind of scientific research.

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Speaker 3: So it meant that they randomly assigned some women to

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Speaker 3: be on the pill, randomly assigned some women to be

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Speaker 3: on placebo, and then they did this experiment no statistically

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Speaker 3: significant effect of oral contraceptives on preferences.

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Speaker 2: For facial hoping to not get pregnant.

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Speaker 3: I know, right, it's like, oh, sorry, we didn't think

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Speaker 3: about that ethical consideration. But the fact that an article

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Speaker 3: can be written that acts like it's citing scientific research

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Speaker 3: and then ignores the last fourteen years of that scientific

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Speaker 3: research is so infuriating. So there's that aspect, But then

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Speaker 3: there's the logic. So that Evey Magazine article tries to

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Speaker 3: argue at the end that the big problem here, the

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Speaker 3: worry for women is that what's going to happen is

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Speaker 3: you're going to be on hormone or birth control, and

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Speaker 3: then you're going to marry someone and then you're going

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Speaker 3: to go.

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Speaker 1: Off to Michael and you'll want Henry Carol.

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Speaker 3: And it's like, you know what else might actually affect

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Speaker 3: what women get tied to for their entire lives having

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Speaker 3: a baby with that man. Hence birth control, Like do

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like before birth control, women,

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Speaker 3: the freedom that birth control has offered women outweighs.

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Speaker 2: That to choose a mate.

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Speaker 3: Yes, even if that were true. The other thing that

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Speaker 3: doesn't make sense is that at the beginning of that

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Speaker 3: article they write that it's easy to watch a James

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Speaker 3: Dean movie and wonder why there aren't men like that anymore.

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Speaker 3: We sat in a cinema a few weeks ago and

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Speaker 3: watched women salivate over Jacob Alordi no bless him, who's

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Speaker 3: pretty bloody. Similar, there's Adam Driver, there's Paul mescal And

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Speaker 3: then they have a line about how a tea teen

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Speaker 3: age girl is more likely to lust over Lil Huddy

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Speaker 3: than Jacob a lord who is little Huddy. And also

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Speaker 3: teenage girls shouldn't be the consideration here because they're less

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Speaker 3: likely to be your birth control than women in the twenties.

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Speaker 2: All my fun I just want to come with the

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Speaker 2: side of culture war, and I was enjoying it.

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Speaker 3: Also, I like, I'm not on birth control, but I

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Speaker 3: am pregnant, so that might effect.

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Speaker 2: But you're a Shallama aunt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but birth control, no birth control, pregnancy, no pregnancy.

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Speaker 3: I go Shalla May over Henry Cavill. I think Henry

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Speaker 3: Cavill looks a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: That's science. That is science. So we have been watching

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Speaker 2: the Oscars on and off all morning, all lunchtime. I

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Speaker 2: heard some whoops around the office, not many. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: the most exciting of ceremonies they were.

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Speaker 3: It had its moments.

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Speaker 2: I had its moments. We're going to be talking about

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Speaker 2: made people whoop in a moment. But we can't talk

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Speaker 2: about the Oscars without talking about dresses. Now, Mia is

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Speaker 2: going to bring her forensic some may say judgmental view

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Speaker 2: on fashion and the Red Carpet tore tomorrow's episode in detail,

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Speaker 2: as well as the after party outfits, which are always

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Speaker 2: more interesting these days. But friends, we have to do

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Speaker 2: a who you like best on the Red Carpet? Amelia,

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Speaker 2: I got two.

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Speaker 1: I got a man and a woman. Best dressed woman

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Speaker 1: Rose r Rose Berner Indior Anne Hathaway went for a

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Speaker 1: similar look. They were both kind of wearing some might

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Speaker 1: say wallpaper adjacent designs, but they both looked beautiful. But

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Speaker 1: Rose looks like a movie star, and by that I

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Speaker 1: mean she looks like an exceptionally attractive person who was

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Speaker 1: having a lot of fun.

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Speaker 3: And interestingly I made the same observation, but I feel

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Speaker 3: like Rose Burns was like the modern version of that

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Speaker 3: dress and the jewelry and that kind of thing, whereas

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Speaker 3: Anne Hathaway's was like the old.

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Speaker 1: Well she got. She had like elbow length gloves on.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And my best dressed man is Pedro Pascal, who did

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Speaker 1: not have his mustache. I think there was some gasps

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Speaker 1: of dismay in the office when he showed up on

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Speaker 1: the red carpet clean shaven. No one's ever seen him

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Speaker 1: aout the mustache before.

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Speaker 2: What you just heard me do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the mustache made its way onto Leo's face.

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Speaker 2: It did crawl across the red carpet clan.

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Speaker 3: I quite liked Leo.

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Speaker 1: I did not. I like clean shaven Pedro. He was

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Speaker 1: in white channel, he had this big silk and feather

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Speaker 1: brooch on. And what I love about him is that

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Speaker 1: he always looked so well moisturized.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. I thought the boys, though, did you

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Speaker 2: notice they were a lot of them were either all

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Speaker 2: in white like Chalamaie like fool full white, or all

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Speaker 2: in black so like black timeless.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 2: But I think our Jacob classic three piece suit with

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Speaker 2: the waistcoat, I mean, I know, it's hard to look

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Speaker 2: bad when you're seventeen feet to Anie took his mom.

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Speaker 3: He did, he did take you.

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Speaker 1: You have a little bit of an issue there.

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Speaker 3: It's a deflection because who is dating people would find

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Speaker 3: a little bit problematic. So he takes his mom and

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Speaker 3: everyone's like, oh, taking his.

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Speaker 1: Mom because he's dating.

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Speaker 3: He's dating Olivia.

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Speaker 2: Olivia talked about this last week.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Olivia Jade, who's who was involved in the college

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Speaker 3: admissions candle. I just think she's so beautiful. But to be.

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Speaker 2: Fair, the serious actors always take their moms. Leo took

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Speaker 2: his mom for years. Charala Maai used to take his mom.

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Speaker 2: He still doesn't walk with Kylie, like not really. I

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Speaker 2: think the serious actors are always like, we're not going

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Speaker 2: to talk about this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, true, honorable mention to Jacob Lordie's scruffy hair. You

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Speaker 3: just know that that particular scruff took hours. It was

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Speaker 3: just so intentional, but it was so beautiful. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to be boring and agree with Amelia that Rose Byrne

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Speaker 3: was absolutely best stressed. But I'll also mention I thought

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Speaker 3: Demie Moore's look was.

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Speaker 2: Too many feathers, many feathers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, our Nick was in feathers too.

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Speaker 2: And so was Tayana Taylor who I did think looked amazing,

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Speaker 2: and she's been she's from one battle after another, and

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Speaker 2: she has been absolutely hammering. The red carpet looks with

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Speaker 2: lots of really out sort of out there things, So

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Speaker 2: her in those feathers was actually quite yeah, well key

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Speaker 2: for her. It looked amazing.

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Speaker 3: The other one that, yes, needs it, need to mention

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Speaker 3: is Emma Stone looked that color, that fabric, Oh, that

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Speaker 3: looked absolutely beautiful. Louisverton a little capslee.

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Speaker 1: Emma Stone does not look like Emma Stone anymore. I

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Speaker 1: know you've borded me saying this. Bridget Dulaney wrote a

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Speaker 1: great piece in The Guardian a couple of days ago

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Speaker 1: about how movie stars used to just be like better

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Speaker 1: looking than the rest of us, and we could aspire

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Speaker 1: to that and we liked looking at them, and it

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Speaker 1: was all very uncomplicated. And now movie stars just look

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Speaker 1: like AI generated cyborgs. And I have to include a

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Speaker 1: number of the people who walk the carpet tonight in

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Speaker 1: that category.

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Speaker 2: We discussed this all the time. I thought she looked amazing,

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Speaker 2: very very thin, but that's her thing.

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Speaker 3: But I thought she has the dress, probably the only

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Speaker 3: person in the world who could wear that dress. Can

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Speaker 3: we just quickly? I hated Timmy's look. I hated the sunglasses.

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Speaker 3: I hated the boots. They were like hospital boot.

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Speaker 2: Leave the boy aler.

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Speaker 1: It was like a double breasted white suit, which I

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Speaker 1: think so yes, suits haven't been this controversial since Obama

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Speaker 1: wore a tan suit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I have to award a high degree

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Speaker 2: of difficulty right for the very pregnant? Would me Masaku?

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Speaker 2: She is from Sinners, she played Annie and Sinners, the

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Speaker 2: heart of that movie. Amazing actress, she's about to have

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Speaker 2: a baby, and she was like, because Hailey Steinfeld, who's

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Speaker 2: also in Sinners, she is also heavily pregnant, and she

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Speaker 2: didn't go, but I think that one me was like, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm freaking going. And she wore this amazing Louis Vton

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Speaker 2: green sequince. But it is not easy to pull off

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Speaker 2: a red car and that would have been custom made

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Speaker 2: for her, and she looked freaking a million dollars. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: that's the Frocks, as we say, he is going to

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Speaker 2: do more on that tomorrow. But moving inside, Conan O'Brien

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Speaker 2: was hosting now he hosted last year, generally seemed to

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Speaker 2: be a pretty safe choice. In these polarizing times. And

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Speaker 2: remember America as a millionaires better than anyone half the

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Speaker 2: audience hate the other half of the audience. Are you

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Speaker 2: going to make jokes for one half of the audience

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Speaker 2: and not the other. He kind of played it very safe.

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Speaker 2: He did make an Epstein gag that is coming up

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Speaker 2: in this Here's a little collection from his opening monologue.

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Speaker 4: Great to be back hosting the Oscars. Last year when

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Speaker 4: I hosted Los Angeles was on fire, but this year

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Speaker 4: everything's going great. Security is extremely tight tonight. I's got

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Speaker 4: to mention that. Yeah, I'm told there's concerns about attacks

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Speaker 4: from both the opera and ballet communities. They're just mad

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Speaker 4: you left out jazz. It's the first time since twenty twelve,

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Speaker 4: first time since twenty twelve that there are no British

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Speaker 4: actors nominated for Best Actor or Best Actress. Yeah, British

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Speaker 4: spokesperson said, yeah, well at least we arrest our pedophiles,

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Speaker 4: so we got that going.

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Speaker 1: We pay tribute.

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Speaker 4: Tonight, not just a film, but to the ideals of

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Speaker 4: global artistry, collaboration, patience, resilience and that rarest of qualities

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Speaker 4: today optimism. So let us please celebrate. Let us celebrate.

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Speaker 2: That last bit was like him saying giving everyone permission

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Speaker 2: to have a nice night. Yeah, being like what.

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Speaker 3: We do is important.

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Speaker 1: I love Conan. I think he's so funny and his

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Speaker 1: Hot Ones episode is the greatest twenty minutes of Internet ever.

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Speaker 1: But I forgot my AirPods today and I was watching

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Speaker 1: him perform without sound, and he looked like a silent

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Speaker 1: movie star and he was just trying so hard, and

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Speaker 1: there was something about it that felt really old fashioned

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, on the whole ceremony feels and tics of it

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Speaker 2: all with him, Yea, I agree.

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Speaker 3: And there were several jokes that to me fell flat

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Speaker 3: and just felt like absolutely anyone like my dad would

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Speaker 3: have made them. There are a couple of good ones.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad that it only took a few seconds to

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Speaker 3: get the ballet upright joke out of the messing around

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Speaker 3: with that.

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Speaker 1: And it was nicely delivered.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tricky because do you remember for a while

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Speaker 2: there the OSCARS was trying to be relevant with its hosts,

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Speaker 2: and there was that year when it was unhad the

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Speaker 2: way James Frank or whatever, like nobody wanted.

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Speaker 1: To do it.

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Speaker 2: It was ahead of its time that one, but it

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Speaker 2: became like a poison chalice. Nobody wanted that gig because

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Speaker 2: it's the most criticized blah blah. So now they've obviously

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Speaker 2: just gone, let's keep that. Billy Crystal did it for

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Speaker 2: like what seemed like a hundred years.

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Speaker 1: And he appeared on stage briefly tonight as well in

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Speaker 1: the immemorium section talking about Rob Reiner. But I just

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Speaker 1: wonder if in this sort of stripped back TikTok age,

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Speaker 1: someone trying as hard as cone and just falls flat.

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Speaker 2: And you know, like a lot of the Oscars does

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Speaker 2: feel like it's still nineteen eighty two, like the music,

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Speaker 2: like when people are coming on and off, the glamorous

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Speaker 2: Lady who leads everybody on and office's so weird. Now,

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Speaker 2: Emelia and I were talking about the set and how

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Speaker 2: it looked really dark and weird, and then I read

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Speaker 2: that according to Vanity Fair, the year's stage design is

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Speaker 2: meant to represent a calming garden courtyard.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't it look like a mausoleum.

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Speaker 3: And what's weird is that I feel like with the

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Speaker 3: red carpet, the official Oscars red carpet is very of

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Speaker 3: the moment. They've got a Millia to Oldenberg and she

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Speaker 3: does it and she's so funny, and sometimes that gets

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Speaker 3: criticized the idea of like influencers on the red carpet,

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Speaker 3: But they're funny and they bring out funny stuff in

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Speaker 3: the people they interview. But I agree, I think the

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Speaker 3: entire ceremony is too earnest. I think everyone's being too

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Speaker 3: earnest all the time. And I'm like, calm down, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the ice. I don't need you to.

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Speaker 2: To hand it over to Rock Nation, who do like

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Speaker 2: the super Bowl and they just need to be like,

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Speaker 2: what would you do with the Oscars because it's their

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Speaker 2: big night, right And I get it. If I worked

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Speaker 2: in that industry, it would be a big deal to

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Speaker 2: be there and all that stuff. But it just does feel,

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Speaker 2: as you said, Emelia, like it's from another time. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we have to get to the biggest upset of the

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Speaker 2: night if it's an upset, because we did kind of

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Speaker 2: predict it. But three months ago you would have thought

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Speaker 2: that chalamay, my little Timmy had a lock on this

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Speaker 2: Best Actor nomination and win. He was nominated last year

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Speaker 2: for the Bob Dylan Movie. At that point, he made

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Speaker 2: a big point about how much he wanted to win

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Speaker 2: it and how hard he's been working, and then on

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Speaker 2: the Mardi Supreme press tour he's been talking loads about

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Speaker 2: the quality of work he's been churning out. I think

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Speaker 2: he's been nominated three times in ten years, which is

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Speaker 2: a lot. He's only thirty. But he blew it and

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Speaker 2: it went to Michael B. Jordan, which is justice because,

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Speaker 2: as Emily Vernon pointed out on Friday's show, Michael B.

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Speaker 2: Jordan should really have got two awards because he played twins.

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Speaker 2: But do we think that the backlash in motion Ameilia.

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Speaker 1: The Charla May backlash is here? And I don't just

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Speaker 1: know that because you've been taking all the blue tech

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Speaker 1: off your Timmy posters around your desk today, Holly. I

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Speaker 1: think it started. I can pinpoint exactly when it started

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Speaker 1: when he and Kylie Jenner appeared on the Red Carpet

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Speaker 1: in those matching orange pleaver outfits. A few months ago

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Speaker 1: he was promoting My Supreme. He was wearing orange. But

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Speaker 1: I think it was just too much for everyone. It

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Speaker 1: was far too naff. From there on, he hasn't recovered

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Speaker 1: the ground. In fact, he's lost more with the opera

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Speaker 1: and ballet remarks There's an interesting article in The New

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Speaker 1: York Times today by Navine Kumar called Wasn't Timothday's Charla

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Speaker 1: May is supposed to be a new kind of leading man,

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Speaker 1: and I think her premise is really interesting. She makes

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Speaker 1: the point that in twenty seventeen, when he burst onto

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Speaker 1: the scene, he was in Ladybird, Greta Gowig's movie. He

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Speaker 1: was in Call Me by Your Name, there was a

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Speaker 1: gay love story. He wore a backless red holter neck

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Speaker 1: on the red carpet. We thought he was kind of

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Speaker 1: post heterosexual man.

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Speaker 2: EV Magazine thinks that's sure.

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Speaker 1: But now he's sort of been revealed to not be

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Speaker 1: what we all pinned on him or projected on to him.

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Speaker 1: And I think we're all just feeling like we were

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Speaker 1: sold a bill of goods. Do you think that's right?

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Speaker 2: I do? But I also I have to examine my

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Speaker 2: attitude about it because I think a lot of it's

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Speaker 2: to do with his choice of partner, right, and Kylie Jenner,

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Speaker 2: And I don't think that's fair, do you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean? Like, I think that our whether it's misogyny,

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Speaker 2: whether it's snobbery about Kylie Jenner and the kardashianness of

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Speaker 2: it all has rubbed off on him and tainted his brand.

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Speaker 2: And the truth of it is, he is incredibly good

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Speaker 2: at what he does. Like Marty Supreme, whether you particularly

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Speaker 2: like that movie or not, his performance is extraordinary, and

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Speaker 2: the same with the Bob Dylan movie and the same

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Speaker 2: with everything he does. So he's a great actor. And

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Speaker 2: I think that for a long time people were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: he knows how to promote a movie and open a movie.

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Speaker 2: That was the narrative when Marty Supreme came out, and

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Speaker 2: they were like, very few actors can open a movie

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Speaker 2: and take it to the top of the box office,

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Speaker 2: not gen z but he can. Him and Zende are

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Speaker 2: seen as the great saviors of youth cinema. And it's

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Speaker 2: like he went too hard, and then I think he

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Speaker 2: went too hard, and then the establishment went, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: you're not very Ardi, are you, because you're kind of

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Speaker 2: with the Kardashians now. And I wonder if there's just

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Speaker 2: a bit of old fashioned snobbery at play there, because

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Speaker 2: although we've all been gripping our pearls about him saying

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Speaker 2: what he said about opera or ballet, he wasn't wrong,

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Speaker 2: as in it's not like the average guy in the

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Speaker 2: street who's paying to go and see Sinners or Marti

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Speaker 2: Supreme is a massive opera ballet fan, but it's given

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Speaker 2: the establishment a really good reason to turn stobby on him.

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Speaker 3: I reckon he just has the Leonardo DiCaprio cz which

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Speaker 3: is he's going to be nominated over and over and

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Speaker 3: over again and he's going to lose over it.

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Speaker 1: Different to Leo, I was actually going to bring him

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Speaker 1: up because I think they're an interesting study. In contrast,

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Speaker 1: Leo dates Victoria's Secret Models famously. We kind of all

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Speaker 1: just make jokes about it, and it's become part of

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Speaker 1: his persona. But he gets cast in the Martins Corsese

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Speaker 1: films year after year. There's no sense of his credibility

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Speaker 1: being eroded because of his love life choices. Why is

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Speaker 1: it that we don't like Charalamae with Kylie Jenner, but

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Speaker 1: we forgive DiCaprio with his carousel of under twenty six.

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Speaker 3: Year olds because we dehumani because they do. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: exactly which is a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he I think that twenty six year

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Speaker 2: olds have damaged his reputation. I definitely do. I think

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Speaker 2: that I'm particularly among younger women. That's the only thing

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Speaker 2: they'd know about Leonardo DiCaprio is that he dates twenty

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Speaker 2: six year olds. I think there is a tarnish to

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Speaker 2: him from that he's seeing. There's a bit sad.

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Speaker 3: I reckon Timmy will have his moment. I don't think

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Speaker 3: this was his moment because I don't think he was

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Speaker 3: the best actor like him. Losing could have been. Yes,

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Speaker 3: the whole publicity train and how it got derailed, all

417
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Speaker 3: of that, But I do think Michael B. Jordan was

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Speaker 3: better and heved it.

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Speaker 2: You're right. I don't mean in any way for this

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Speaker 2: comp like for this Chalamagne nomination to make it sound

421
00:21:07,434 --> 00:21:10,273
Speaker 2: Michael B. Jordan's somehow Brad breathed this. Of course he didn't.

422
00:21:10,434 --> 00:21:14,073
Speaker 2: He absolutely deserved it. But it's just interesting how quickly

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Speaker 2: the narrative turned. It was very much schaalamey chalamey, chalomay,

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Speaker 2: and then it was very much oh no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: no no. You know. So it's I think that justice

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00:21:21,954 --> 00:21:24,073
Speaker 2: has been served in that as much as you can

427
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Speaker 2: have a conpept performances and anything like Michael B. Jordan's amazing,

428
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Speaker 2: but the backlash of Chala May is very interesting and

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Speaker 2: very Kardashi encoded.

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Speaker 3: I think, Yes, I saw a behind the scenes ish

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Speaker 3: clip of Timothy seeing your sister and so she comes

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Speaker 3: Ballerina his Ballerina's sister comes and says hi to him

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Speaker 3: in the front row, and yeah, the interaction of doing

434
00:21:46,314 --> 00:21:48,954
Speaker 3: her Kylie's awkward, That's all I'll say. But I think

435
00:21:48,954 --> 00:21:50,434
Speaker 3: there's some awkwardness in the family.

436
00:21:51,034 --> 00:21:53,114
Speaker 2: What else did we love? Slashd not love.

437
00:21:53,194 --> 00:21:55,554
Speaker 3: What I loved from like a Shade and Freud perspective

438
00:21:56,034 --> 00:21:59,754
Speaker 3: was during the Sinner's performance I Lied to You, which

439
00:21:59,794 --> 00:22:04,314
Speaker 3: was bloody brilliant. There's a very talented balot dancer, mister Copen, Yes,

440
00:22:04,674 --> 00:22:07,674
Speaker 3: and Timmy's in the front row, and I thought that

441
00:22:07,714 --> 00:22:10,114
Speaker 3: was a very big reminder that it's like ballets in

442
00:22:10,154 --> 00:22:10,914
Speaker 3: your face, buddy.

443
00:22:10,954 --> 00:22:15,754
Speaker 1: And I loved seeing the Bridesmaid's cast get back together

444
00:22:15,914 --> 00:22:19,474
Speaker 1: again and they were so funny when they walked on stage,

445
00:22:19,474 --> 00:22:22,114
Speaker 1: they were all doing that cheesy pointing into the audience

446
00:22:22,154 --> 00:22:24,273
Speaker 1: that politicians do. That was a real highlight.

447
00:22:24,434 --> 00:22:26,474
Speaker 2: And it wasn't that like a glimpse in a way

448
00:22:26,634 --> 00:22:29,754
Speaker 2: of what the hosting gig could be. And I think

449
00:22:29,794 --> 00:22:31,794
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't want that job is the truth.

450
00:22:31,874 --> 00:22:35,714
Speaker 2: But like those women standing on stage they introduced two awards,

451
00:22:35,754 --> 00:22:39,313
Speaker 2: they were funnier and fresher and smarter in those moments.

452
00:22:39,354 --> 00:22:41,234
Speaker 2: The first one was this stick that they were pretending

453
00:22:41,234 --> 00:22:42,954
Speaker 2: they had notes from people in the crowd. It was

454
00:22:43,034 --> 00:22:46,354
Speaker 2: just very funny and they kept being like, you look

455
00:22:46,394 --> 00:22:48,634
Speaker 2: really beautiful, You've aged well, the things you've done to

456
00:22:48,674 --> 00:22:50,033
Speaker 2: your face are very tasteful.

457
00:22:50,794 --> 00:22:53,674
Speaker 1: Every one of those women is just the funniest personal

458
00:22:53,714 --> 00:22:54,674
Speaker 1: I know.

459
00:22:54,914 --> 00:22:56,474
Speaker 3: Give to that more of that?

460
00:22:56,594 --> 00:22:58,313
Speaker 1: Well, Tina and Amy? Do we need to go back

461
00:22:58,354 --> 00:22:59,634
Speaker 1: to Tina and Amy's true?

462
00:22:59,674 --> 00:23:02,554
Speaker 2: If that would be amazing? Who wouldn't want that? Anna

463
00:23:02,634 --> 00:23:06,634
Speaker 2: wind Tour without her glasses. I had to call Amelia

464
00:23:06,674 --> 00:23:12,754
Speaker 2: over computer because Anna Wintour and Anne Hathaway presented an

465
00:23:12,754 --> 00:23:17,074
Speaker 2: award obviously a nod to the whole promotion of Devil

466
00:23:17,074 --> 00:23:20,314
Speaker 2: Wears prior of too, and Anna was not wearing her

467
00:23:20,394 --> 00:23:23,114
Speaker 2: sunglasses for the first part of it, and I was thinking,

468
00:23:23,154 --> 00:23:24,394
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've even seen it.

469
00:23:25,194 --> 00:23:26,553
Speaker 1: She looked so uncomfortable.

470
00:23:26,634 --> 00:23:29,234
Speaker 3: It was an eyeball reveal and it was quiet.

471
00:23:29,994 --> 00:23:32,074
Speaker 2: And then she put them on and then she very

472
00:23:32,314 --> 00:23:34,033
Speaker 2: hilariously said thank you Emily.

473
00:23:35,594 --> 00:23:36,234
Speaker 3: That was great.

474
00:23:37,274 --> 00:23:40,994
Speaker 1: That was probably funnier than anything Condan said. I loved

475
00:23:41,034 --> 00:23:44,394
Speaker 1: Audumn girald Ar Kappor, who was the first woman and

476
00:23:44,474 --> 00:23:48,114
Speaker 1: first woman of color to win Cinematography. She stood up,

477
00:23:48,194 --> 00:23:52,194
Speaker 1: she looked so cool. She was wearing a shirt and tie. Holly,

478
00:23:52,274 --> 00:23:53,754
Speaker 1: what did you say about shirt?

479
00:23:53,914 --> 00:23:57,074
Speaker 2: I think that every like civilian who goes to the Oscars,

480
00:23:57,074 --> 00:23:58,794
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of them because they're riders

481
00:23:58,794 --> 00:24:01,154
Speaker 2: and their directors and they just don't look like movie stars,

482
00:24:01,474 --> 00:24:04,114
Speaker 2: should wear a shirt and tie because most women look

483
00:24:04,194 --> 00:24:06,593
Speaker 2: freaking awesome in a suit, and then you don't have

484
00:24:06,634 --> 00:24:08,754
Speaker 2: to worry about the fact you've got to stand next

485
00:24:08,794 --> 00:24:12,834
Speaker 2: to bloody roseburn in Emmstone. She was great, and it

486
00:24:12,914 --> 00:24:14,793
Speaker 2: was great that she's the first woman to win that,

487
00:24:14,874 --> 00:24:16,914
Speaker 2: and she thanked all the other women on the circuit.

488
00:24:16,914 --> 00:24:19,754
Speaker 2: And it's like, slowly, slowly, So did you see what

489
00:24:19,834 --> 00:24:23,314
Speaker 2: Chloe Jaw was wearing. She's the director of Hamnet and

490
00:24:23,354 --> 00:24:27,234
Speaker 2: she wore a full black gothic outfit with like a

491
00:24:27,354 --> 00:24:30,033
Speaker 2: veil to the ground and all this draping, and like

492
00:24:30,434 --> 00:24:32,553
Speaker 2: you know, women never used to even get nominated for

493
00:24:32,594 --> 00:24:36,474
Speaker 2: those awards, and she is absolutely the most talented, smart,

494
00:24:36,554 --> 00:24:38,834
Speaker 2: interesting woman and listened to lots of interviews with her,

495
00:24:39,034 --> 00:24:42,073
Speaker 2: and she just turns up like we're wearing this today,

496
00:24:42,594 --> 00:24:45,634
Speaker 2: and everybody is sure we're wearing that today.

497
00:24:46,394 --> 00:24:48,554
Speaker 1: I've got golden in my head at one best song,

498
00:24:48,594 --> 00:24:50,674
Speaker 1: and I'm not even mad about it, because who doesn't

499
00:24:50,714 --> 00:24:51,434
Speaker 1: love that song?

500
00:24:51,594 --> 00:24:54,234
Speaker 2: I know, I mean, it felt like Sinner's probably should

501
00:24:54,274 --> 00:24:56,593
Speaker 2: have won that. But at the same time, if you're

502
00:24:56,594 --> 00:24:59,634
Speaker 2: talking about scale, every five year old in the world

503
00:24:59,914 --> 00:25:01,634
Speaker 2: sung nothing else for a year.

504
00:25:01,714 --> 00:25:05,114
Speaker 1: Apparently the attendee's got wristbands that flash during the performance.

505
00:25:05,154 --> 00:25:07,034
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out how I can get.

506
00:25:06,954 --> 00:25:09,714
Speaker 2: One before they got The ones in the front row

507
00:25:09,754 --> 00:25:12,074
Speaker 2: have these like wavy things, and there's a very awkward

508
00:25:12,234 --> 00:25:16,274
Speaker 2: cut to Gwyneth. Gwyneth is a very plastic white sheath

509
00:25:16,314 --> 00:25:18,314
Speaker 2: and she's like, got her little wavy thing.

510
00:25:18,434 --> 00:25:21,394
Speaker 1: Okay, was Gwyneth like talking to John Anniston about what

511
00:25:21,474 --> 00:25:24,634
Speaker 1: to wear? Because it really was giving Anniston.

512
00:25:24,314 --> 00:25:25,874
Speaker 2: Wasn't it and very nineties?

513
00:25:26,314 --> 00:25:28,634
Speaker 3: I was going to say that both Gwyneth and Nicole

514
00:25:28,714 --> 00:25:31,794
Speaker 3: Kidman could have You could tell me they wore those

515
00:25:31,834 --> 00:25:33,394
Speaker 3: outfits five years.

516
00:25:33,274 --> 00:25:36,914
Speaker 1: Ago, that same feather dress before.

517
00:25:37,034 --> 00:25:38,274
Speaker 3: And like the Nudi coloris.

518
00:25:38,634 --> 00:25:41,513
Speaker 1: Maybe Gwyne was trying to channel CBK because of love Story,

519
00:25:41,554 --> 00:25:43,554
Speaker 1: But the thing is that famously those two women did

520
00:25:43,554 --> 00:25:44,314
Speaker 1: not like each other.

521
00:25:46,314 --> 00:25:47,273
Speaker 2: Has anyone got anything?

522
00:25:48,234 --> 00:25:53,074
Speaker 3: I did enjoy Rachel McAdams looking like a real person

523
00:25:54,074 --> 00:25:56,033
Speaker 3: even though she was doing the in memoriam and it

524
00:25:56,074 --> 00:25:57,194
Speaker 3: was actually very sad.

525
00:25:57,794 --> 00:25:58,674
Speaker 1: For Diane Keaton.

526
00:25:58,834 --> 00:26:02,754
Speaker 3: Yeah, and for Catherine O'Hara, and she did a really

527
00:26:02,754 --> 00:26:05,273
Speaker 3: good job. But I did You really do notice when

528
00:26:05,314 --> 00:26:07,354
Speaker 3: somebody looks like a real person, you go, oh, you

529
00:26:07,394 --> 00:26:08,274
Speaker 3: still have your face.

530
00:26:08,714 --> 00:26:11,593
Speaker 1: Rachel McAdams movie star. Yeah, I want to see her

531
00:26:11,634 --> 00:26:12,114
Speaker 1: all the time.

532
00:26:12,314 --> 00:26:13,994
Speaker 3: Yeah, same, more of that.

533
00:26:14,114 --> 00:26:16,674
Speaker 2: I have to give a shout out to Jesse Buckley,

534
00:26:16,794 --> 00:26:19,634
Speaker 2: who won for Hamnet, which we've talked about in the show,

535
00:26:19,634 --> 00:26:23,154
Speaker 2: a lot, devastating movie based on an incredible book. She

536
00:26:23,274 --> 00:26:25,714
Speaker 2: wins and she says it's Mother's Day in the UK.

537
00:26:25,834 --> 00:26:29,794
Speaker 5: She says, this, it's Mother's Day in the UK today,

538
00:26:33,954 --> 00:26:37,594
Speaker 5: So I would like to dedicate this to the beautiful

539
00:26:37,714 --> 00:26:39,394
Speaker 5: chaos of a mother's heart.

540
00:26:41,434 --> 00:26:43,273
Speaker 2: I have to say, I know we don't like Ernest,

541
00:26:43,314 --> 00:26:46,474
Speaker 2: but the beautiful chaos of a mother's Oh, that got me.

542
00:26:46,594 --> 00:26:50,074
Speaker 1: Can I have one more earnest moment Joa Kim Trea,

543
00:26:50,194 --> 00:26:53,074
Speaker 1: who is the director of Sentimental Value, which I only

544
00:26:53,154 --> 00:26:57,434
Speaker 1: learned about today. He gave this great political statement. He

545
00:26:57,554 --> 00:27:01,313
Speaker 1: said that all adults are responsible for all children. And

546
00:27:01,354 --> 00:27:04,313
Speaker 1: I loved that phrase. It's so true, it really is.

547
00:27:05,154 --> 00:27:07,154
Speaker 2: So there you go. We've given you the rundown. I

548
00:27:07,274 --> 00:27:08,793
Speaker 2: have to watch it tonight. If you don't want to,

549
00:27:09,434 --> 00:27:12,033
Speaker 2: maybe we've spoiled it for you. I don't enough, but hi,

550
00:27:12,754 --> 00:27:15,994
Speaker 2: bloody love the Oscars. And we'll be back tomorrow with

551
00:27:16,034 --> 00:27:19,834
Speaker 2: more Red Carpet and they'll probably be gossip, yeah, on Wednesday,

552
00:27:20,234 --> 00:27:23,474
Speaker 2: because there's always after party gossip. Did Timothy get upset?

553
00:27:23,874 --> 00:27:26,834
Speaker 2: Did he cry? Did he throw Kylie at someone? I

554
00:27:26,834 --> 00:27:31,593
Speaker 2: don't nation needs to know. After the break, you've probably

555
00:27:31,674 --> 00:27:35,354
Speaker 2: heard a lot of talk about the new Louis Thurux documentary.

556
00:27:35,554 --> 00:27:37,553
Speaker 2: So we're going to give you a cheat sheet to

557
00:27:37,594 --> 00:27:38,354
Speaker 2: the manisphere.

558
00:27:43,554 --> 00:27:46,353
Speaker 6: At Ladder's Hello it's Me or in Your Ears, and

559
00:27:46,394 --> 00:27:51,994
Speaker 6: tomorrow's subscriber episode, it's the Oscars Fashion with Me and Envy.

560
00:27:52,634 --> 00:27:55,194
Speaker 6: We have very different takes on the Red Carpet. We

561
00:27:55,274 --> 00:27:58,154
Speaker 6: come at it from very different perspectives, and we're going

562
00:27:58,194 --> 00:28:00,754
Speaker 6: to share all our thoughts with you in your ears

563
00:28:01,074 --> 00:28:04,474
Speaker 6: because I do subscriber episodes twice a week Tuesdays and Thursdays,

564
00:28:04,674 --> 00:28:08,273
Speaker 6: and tomorrow's Tuesday. So if you're not already subscriber, follow

565
00:28:08,314 --> 00:28:10,434
Speaker 6: the link in the show notes to listen to Out

566
00:28:10,474 --> 00:28:13,434
Speaker 6: Loud and get Me in your Ears along with the

567
00:28:13,514 --> 00:28:15,474
Speaker 6: other glorious hosts.

568
00:28:17,234 --> 00:28:19,914
Speaker 3: The number one film on Netflix right now is a

569
00:28:19,954 --> 00:28:23,794
Speaker 3: brand new documentary by Louis Thrue called Inside the Manisphere.

570
00:28:23,914 --> 00:28:26,394
Speaker 2: I don't think Evie Magazine would like Louis through. No,

571
00:28:26,754 --> 00:28:28,354
Speaker 2: they would think he looked a little soft.

572
00:28:28,514 --> 00:28:30,074
Speaker 3: Yeah, a little soft, not very mad.

573
00:28:30,154 --> 00:28:34,234
Speaker 1: Okay, you need to tell me about this, yes, because

574
00:28:34,594 --> 00:28:37,994
Speaker 1: I have been too scared to watch it. It sounds scary,

575
00:28:38,074 --> 00:28:39,714
Speaker 1: it sounds depressing.

576
00:28:39,914 --> 00:28:43,074
Speaker 3: And I think you are with a lot of people

577
00:28:43,114 --> 00:28:47,434
Speaker 3: who are turning away from this because it seems overwhelming.

578
00:28:48,074 --> 00:28:51,794
Speaker 3: I will say one thing that I particularly loved about

579
00:28:51,794 --> 00:28:55,714
Speaker 3: it and didn't expect is it's funny. It makes you laugh. Louis,

580
00:28:56,274 --> 00:28:59,834
Speaker 3: there's such clever devices in finding the humor and the

581
00:28:59,874 --> 00:29:03,034
Speaker 3: irony in these men. I laughed out loud several times

582
00:29:03,074 --> 00:29:05,554
Speaker 3: in the first few minutes, so that helps with the

583
00:29:05,594 --> 00:29:06,594
Speaker 3: existential dread.

584
00:29:06,674 --> 00:29:08,874
Speaker 1: And I want you do explain to me what it

585
00:29:08,954 --> 00:29:11,434
Speaker 1: says about the Manisphere, But then we need to get

586
00:29:11,474 --> 00:29:14,034
Speaker 1: to the fact that you've told me that the ultimate

587
00:29:14,114 --> 00:29:16,154
Speaker 1: lessons of it are not what I might expect.

588
00:29:16,234 --> 00:29:20,954
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly so. For those who aren't acquainted, Loui has

589
00:29:20,994 --> 00:29:24,194
Speaker 3: been a journalist and a broadcaster for decades and he

590
00:29:24,274 --> 00:29:28,834
Speaker 3: does documentaries about extreme subcultures, so from neo Nazis to

591
00:29:28,834 --> 00:29:32,354
Speaker 3: porn stars to scientologists, serial killers, yep, all of them.

592
00:29:33,194 --> 00:29:35,714
Speaker 3: Now he's joined his attention to what he says is

593
00:29:35,754 --> 00:29:38,834
Speaker 3: in some ways a bit of an amalgamation of several

594
00:29:38,874 --> 00:29:42,714
Speaker 3: of those subcultures, which is the online world of the Manisphere.

595
00:29:43,434 --> 00:29:45,354
Speaker 3: If there was a King of the Manisphere, it would

596
00:29:45,354 --> 00:29:46,674
Speaker 3: probably be Andrew Tate.

597
00:29:47,154 --> 00:29:50,394
Speaker 2: And yes, he's probably the name that most people would

598
00:29:50,434 --> 00:29:51,514
Speaker 2: be most familiar with.

599
00:29:51,714 --> 00:29:54,794
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the vibe there is very far right politically

600
00:29:55,274 --> 00:29:59,314
Speaker 3: advocating for traditional values, while also being surrounded by a

601
00:29:59,354 --> 00:30:02,314
Speaker 3: lot of gyrating naked women, which seems to be at.

602
00:30:02,554 --> 00:30:08,714
Speaker 2: Getting arrested quite often sphere people quite often.

603
00:30:08,554 --> 00:30:11,474
Speaker 3: All of that, but profiting from women's sex work while

604
00:30:11,554 --> 00:30:15,754
Speaker 3: outwardly being disgusted by it seems to be a common thing.

605
00:30:16,634 --> 00:30:20,154
Speaker 3: They're also pretty much always selling something for Andrew Tate.

606
00:30:20,234 --> 00:30:22,674
Speaker 1: Its courses are the courses in.

607
00:30:23,114 --> 00:30:27,314
Speaker 3: He did one that was in teaching people how to

608
00:30:27,434 --> 00:30:30,114
Speaker 3: get a girlfriend, then get that girlfriend to be a

609
00:30:30,154 --> 00:30:32,514
Speaker 3: cam girl, and then take her money from her being

610
00:30:32,514 --> 00:30:35,754
Speaker 3: a cam girl. Then later yeah, there's a course.

611
00:30:35,834 --> 00:30:38,034
Speaker 2: But they also do lots of these guys in general,

612
00:30:38,154 --> 00:30:42,114
Speaker 2: lots of courses about finance, crypto pt were, lots of

613
00:30:42,154 --> 00:30:46,274
Speaker 2: training and nutrition and workout stuff, lots of pyramids sounding

614
00:30:46,794 --> 00:30:50,874
Speaker 2: like investment schemes because it's all about getting rich and

615
00:30:50,954 --> 00:30:52,634
Speaker 2: ripped and getting the ladies.

616
00:30:52,714 --> 00:30:57,594
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the ideas weirdly tend to enter the

617
00:30:57,594 --> 00:31:02,674
Speaker 3: realm of blatant anti semitism, homophobia, misogyny, and violence against women.

618
00:31:02,754 --> 00:31:05,594
Speaker 3: It seems to be a gateway to that. So Louis

619
00:31:05,634 --> 00:31:09,194
Speaker 3: didn't get access to Tate because Andrew Tate wanted to

620
00:31:09,234 --> 00:31:12,874
Speaker 3: be paid, and then he ended up sending Louis a

621
00:31:12,914 --> 00:31:16,514
Speaker 3: graph of how googled he is compared to how googled

622
00:31:16,714 --> 00:31:20,754
Speaker 3: Louis is and saying haha, see I'm more relevant than you,

623
00:31:20,794 --> 00:31:22,794
Speaker 3: which it's like, maybe people know who Louis throw is

624
00:31:22,794 --> 00:31:24,714
Speaker 3: so they didn't need to google him. But anyway, he

625
00:31:24,834 --> 00:31:26,514
Speaker 3: did get access defensive much.

626
00:31:27,114 --> 00:31:28,674
Speaker 1: I'm not getting arrested in Romania.

627
00:31:29,834 --> 00:31:31,914
Speaker 3: I know he's not really in the headlines, but he

628
00:31:31,954 --> 00:31:34,674
Speaker 3: did get access to twenty four year old Harris and

629
00:31:34,674 --> 00:31:37,074
Speaker 3: Sullivan known as HS Tiki Talkie.

630
00:31:38,274 --> 00:31:39,714
Speaker 2: He's so young, he's English.

631
00:31:39,834 --> 00:31:42,834
Speaker 3: It's just I hadn't heard of him, and I liked

632
00:31:42,874 --> 00:31:46,074
Speaker 3: it that way. His whole philosophy is broadly, I coach

633
00:31:46,154 --> 00:31:48,594
Speaker 3: boys how to be fucking boys, not these soy boy

634
00:31:48,634 --> 00:31:58,354
Speaker 3: gimps who walk around in the modern day.

635
00:31:55,634 --> 00:31:58,674
Speaker 1: Famously unsuccessful, really unsuccessful.

636
00:31:58,714 --> 00:32:02,394
Speaker 2: With him, particularly the kind of women, particularly put.

637
00:32:02,234 --> 00:32:04,474
Speaker 1: Onto high value.

638
00:32:04,114 --> 00:32:05,634
Speaker 2: Charlamagne, Neaver gets those women.

639
00:32:06,514 --> 00:32:10,954
Speaker 3: Throw also meets Justin Waller, whose marriage is one of

640
00:32:11,154 --> 00:32:12,554
Speaker 3: one way non monogamy.

641
00:32:12,674 --> 00:32:15,754
Speaker 1: You can guess which way, meet his wife.

642
00:32:16,194 --> 00:32:19,074
Speaker 2: Yes, he meet his wife and his children to a point.

643
00:32:18,954 --> 00:32:23,354
Speaker 3: Yeah, as well as American streamers Myron Gaines and Sneako.

644
00:32:23,674 --> 00:32:25,954
Speaker 3: And the most powerful parts of those interactions are the

645
00:32:25,954 --> 00:32:30,154
Speaker 3: moments he spends with the women in their lives. I think, but.

646
00:32:30,434 --> 00:32:32,394
Speaker 1: Why do the women stay with these men?

647
00:32:32,594 --> 00:32:36,354
Speaker 3: Well, good question, Louis asked them. And what's interesting is

648
00:32:36,394 --> 00:32:40,634
Speaker 3: how quickly the men, very slowly back down from all

649
00:32:40,754 --> 00:32:44,274
Speaker 3: their proclamations as soon as the woman is next to them,

650
00:32:44,474 --> 00:32:48,994
Speaker 3: and in every instance the man then tries there's a

651
00:32:48,994 --> 00:32:50,874
Speaker 3: whole blow up because the man then tries to get

652
00:32:50,874 --> 00:32:53,154
Speaker 3: the woman to stop being on camera and stop talking

653
00:32:53,794 --> 00:32:55,714
Speaker 3: because they can tell that it's.

654
00:32:55,714 --> 00:32:58,914
Speaker 1: Because it's all basically kind of like a show that

655
00:32:58,914 --> 00:33:00,794
Speaker 1: they're putting on to make money exactly.

656
00:33:01,714 --> 00:33:05,194
Speaker 3: Louis since has done several interviews, and his takeaway is

657
00:33:05,314 --> 00:33:10,474
Speaker 3: very interesting and matches my own, which is that despite

658
00:33:10,554 --> 00:33:13,954
Speaker 3: how sickening these views are and how shocking these men are,

659
00:33:14,794 --> 00:33:18,354
Speaker 3: there are a few tiny little snippets of hope to

660
00:33:18,434 --> 00:33:22,634
Speaker 3: be taken from the documentary. Holly, you watched the documentary

661
00:33:22,634 --> 00:33:25,194
Speaker 3: with Brent, I did? What did you take away from it?

662
00:33:25,314 --> 00:33:27,714
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things very early on, because obviously

663
00:33:27,754 --> 00:33:30,634
Speaker 2: I know about this world because of my job and

664
00:33:30,754 --> 00:33:32,874
Speaker 2: I live on the internet stuff. Brent doesn't really know

665
00:33:32,914 --> 00:33:35,554
Speaker 2: about this world, you know, he's a gen X man

666
00:33:35,594 --> 00:33:38,234
Speaker 2: who doesn't really have I'm always trying to because we

667
00:33:38,274 --> 00:33:40,194
Speaker 2: have a teenage son. I'm always trying to be like,

668
00:33:40,274 --> 00:33:43,194
Speaker 2: you need to get across it. And his view, like Amelia's,

669
00:33:43,394 --> 00:33:44,794
Speaker 2: is yuck, no.

670
00:33:44,874 --> 00:33:46,834
Speaker 3: Thanks, leave me alone.

671
00:33:47,114 --> 00:33:49,114
Speaker 2: But I made him watch it. I sat him down

672
00:33:49,114 --> 00:33:50,714
Speaker 2: as I were watching it. That's the same thing I

673
00:33:50,754 --> 00:33:52,914
Speaker 2: did with adolescence. I said, I don't care. I want

674
00:33:52,914 --> 00:33:55,074
Speaker 2: to hear about it watching it. He made it through

675
00:33:55,074 --> 00:33:57,154
Speaker 2: one of the adolescence, but he didn't make it through

676
00:33:57,154 --> 00:33:59,954
Speaker 2: all of Louis. And very quickly he said, and he's

677
00:33:59,994 --> 00:34:01,154
Speaker 2: just right, they're just salesman.

678
00:34:01,234 --> 00:34:03,394
Speaker 1: And then I can go and watch is It Cake together?

679
00:34:06,474 --> 00:34:07,074
Speaker 1: Brent would love.

680
00:34:08,674 --> 00:34:10,993
Speaker 2: Very quickly, he said, they're just salesman, and they it

681
00:34:11,114 --> 00:34:14,154
Speaker 2: is very apparent, very quickly that they are. So you know,

682
00:34:14,274 --> 00:34:16,274
Speaker 2: we've already covered the fact that they're all selling something.

683
00:34:16,314 --> 00:34:19,194
Speaker 2: They're all selling like my Krypto scheme, my investment tips,

684
00:34:19,234 --> 00:34:23,634
Speaker 2: my workout plan, and they've just mastered the new economy,

685
00:34:23,674 --> 00:34:25,674
Speaker 2: which is that you use social media for that, you

686
00:34:25,794 --> 00:34:28,194
Speaker 2: use YouTube for that. You make your content more and

687
00:34:28,234 --> 00:34:31,714
Speaker 2: more and more outrageous. To gain the algorithm, the content

688
00:34:31,834 --> 00:34:36,434
Speaker 2: has to be absolutely shocking. They say the most outrageous things,

689
00:34:36,434 --> 00:34:39,434
Speaker 2: but few of them seem to actually believe or stand

690
00:34:39,434 --> 00:34:42,594
Speaker 2: by very much of what they say. They believe when challenged.

691
00:34:42,954 --> 00:34:45,794
Speaker 2: So it's a difficult watch because you have to listen

692
00:34:45,834 --> 00:34:48,594
Speaker 2: to this awfulness. And there is a point in it

693
00:34:48,634 --> 00:34:51,114
Speaker 2: where it does take this dark turn where Louie's out

694
00:34:51,154 --> 00:34:53,714
Speaker 2: with them on a night where Tiki Toki or whatever

695
00:34:53,714 --> 00:34:57,154
Speaker 2: we're supposed to call him, basically sets his goons on

696
00:34:57,754 --> 00:35:01,754
Speaker 2: young men who they've lured to spots with a gay

697
00:35:01,874 --> 00:35:04,873
Speaker 2: dating app, and they're like, we're catching pedophiles. Like it

698
00:35:04,914 --> 00:35:08,674
Speaker 2: gets really grim. There's a so caught on camera when

699
00:35:08,674 --> 00:35:11,234
Speaker 2: it spirals into anti semitism and stuff, there is no

700
00:35:11,354 --> 00:35:15,714
Speaker 2: question it gets very scary. But the guys themselves are

701
00:35:15,794 --> 00:35:18,794
Speaker 2: not scary. They are like I just found every one

702
00:35:18,834 --> 00:35:21,714
Speaker 2: of them, and so did. Brent like to be sad

703
00:35:21,794 --> 00:35:25,114
Speaker 2: and pathetic, but I do want to pick a little bit.

704
00:35:25,154 --> 00:35:27,034
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that you worship the ground that

705
00:35:27,074 --> 00:35:29,954
Speaker 2: Louis throw walks on. You always have. I do question,

706
00:35:29,994 --> 00:35:31,634
Speaker 2: and I'm saying a bit of this commentary whether his

707
00:35:32,394 --> 00:35:37,034
Speaker 2: documentary style, which has always been I stand back, I record.

708
00:35:37,074 --> 00:35:39,634
Speaker 2: I'm kind of there, and I'm kind of I'm in it,

709
00:35:39,754 --> 00:35:41,954
Speaker 2: so I am the content, but I'm a bit separate.

710
00:35:41,994 --> 00:35:44,674
Speaker 2: I'm not here to depend it gone. So it is,

711
00:35:45,314 --> 00:35:47,674
Speaker 2: and I don't know if it works in this modern

712
00:35:47,714 --> 00:35:50,674
Speaker 2: world because every single one of these guys uses him

713
00:35:50,674 --> 00:35:54,154
Speaker 2: for content. They live stream his interviews, they get their

714
00:35:54,194 --> 00:35:56,913
Speaker 2: audiences to feed them questions they should ask him, They

715
00:35:56,954 --> 00:35:59,154
Speaker 2: mock him, they bully him. I mean, that's not you know.

716
00:35:59,354 --> 00:36:02,154
Speaker 2: I think Louis through can handle that. And towards the

717
00:36:02,314 --> 00:36:05,754
Speaker 2: end HS Tiki Taki's mother points this out to Louis.

718
00:36:05,794 --> 00:36:07,874
Speaker 2: She says, you're using my for content.

719
00:36:08,194 --> 00:36:09,473
Speaker 3: So you're making money.

720
00:36:09,554 --> 00:36:11,634
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're making money from my son, and so

721
00:36:11,714 --> 00:36:12,873
Speaker 2: he's going to do the same to you.

722
00:36:13,114 --> 00:36:14,434
Speaker 1: Sorry, his mom's involved.

723
00:36:15,034 --> 00:36:16,754
Speaker 2: Well, this is one of the things that, obviously as

724
00:36:16,754 --> 00:36:19,154
Speaker 2: a mum, got me quite upset. He says. Earlier in

725
00:36:19,194 --> 00:36:22,114
Speaker 2: the piece HS Tiki TALKI that my mom hates all

726
00:36:22,154 --> 00:36:24,394
Speaker 2: the things I say. She's a feminist and she doesn't

727
00:36:24,434 --> 00:36:27,634
Speaker 2: like racism and stuff. And then she's in it later

728
00:36:27,674 --> 00:36:29,393
Speaker 2: on and she's like, no, she doesn't like it, but

729
00:36:29,434 --> 00:36:31,634
Speaker 2: she still defends him to the hill because he's her boy.

730
00:36:32,314 --> 00:36:34,634
Speaker 2: At one point Tiki TALKI turns to his mom and says,

731
00:36:34,634 --> 00:36:36,873
Speaker 2: but mum, you don't Most women aren't like you, mum.

732
00:36:36,914 --> 00:36:39,554
Speaker 2: Most women are thick. They're really, really thick. They're not

733
00:36:39,674 --> 00:36:44,274
Speaker 2: like you. And it's just anyway. But I do think

734
00:36:44,354 --> 00:36:47,234
Speaker 2: there is a world in which Louis Throu's he's all

735
00:36:47,314 --> 00:36:49,474
Speaker 2: you know, that wasn't happening when he was embedded with

736
00:36:49,554 --> 00:36:52,634
Speaker 2: the Westboro Baptist Church, when he was interviewed in Trailing

737
00:36:52,634 --> 00:36:55,994
Speaker 2: White supremacy in the American South, he wasn't the story

738
00:36:55,994 --> 00:36:57,714
Speaker 2: in the same way that he is now. He wasn't

739
00:36:58,114 --> 00:37:00,433
Speaker 2: being exploited about it in the same way as now.

740
00:37:00,474 --> 00:37:03,674
Speaker 2: And it's I just think it's changed that game. And

741
00:37:03,954 --> 00:37:05,594
Speaker 2: I don't know how helpful it is.

742
00:37:05,954 --> 00:37:10,393
Speaker 3: I think though, that is the power of documentary and

743
00:37:10,434 --> 00:37:14,274
Speaker 3: the power of him, and the fact that he has

744
00:37:14,394 --> 00:37:17,394
Speaker 3: always just given people enough rope and he's not going

745
00:37:17,434 --> 00:37:23,514
Speaker 3: in and outwardly condemning them or outwardly even you know,

746
00:37:23,594 --> 00:37:28,433
Speaker 3: being super adversarial. I think that is actually stronger because

747
00:37:28,474 --> 00:37:30,554
Speaker 3: it allows us to really see what's beneath it.

748
00:37:30,594 --> 00:37:31,474
Speaker 1: And when we saw what was.

749
00:37:31,474 --> 00:37:36,274
Speaker 3: Beneath it, it wasn't as scary as I think they backed down. Really,

750
00:37:36,714 --> 00:37:37,594
Speaker 3: I don't know what you mean.

751
00:37:37,634 --> 00:37:41,714
Speaker 2: But also his strength used to be that he walks

752
00:37:41,714 --> 00:37:44,234
Speaker 2: them into a trap where they'll say something outrageous or

753
00:37:44,274 --> 00:37:46,473
Speaker 2: let an inside thought be an outside thought. But that's

754
00:37:46,794 --> 00:37:48,913
Speaker 2: what these guys do all day, every day. It's just

755
00:37:49,034 --> 00:37:52,194
Speaker 2: say awful stuff. Louis doesn't have to tempt them to

756
00:37:52,194 --> 00:37:54,634
Speaker 2: say anything awful. He doesn't have to trap them. In fact,

757
00:37:54,994 --> 00:37:57,554
Speaker 2: he has to become complicit. There's a really disturbed One

758
00:37:57,594 --> 00:37:59,954
Speaker 2: of the most disturbing parts for me is when he

759
00:38:00,074 --> 00:38:03,594
Speaker 2: goes on the podcast of one of the guys I

760
00:38:03,594 --> 00:38:07,393
Speaker 2: think it's Myron Gaines, who's a really disturbing character. One

761
00:38:07,434 --> 00:38:09,994
Speaker 2: of the things he does on his podcast YouTube stream

762
00:38:10,394 --> 00:38:12,794
Speaker 2: is he gets women, many of whom are like content

763
00:38:12,834 --> 00:38:14,714
Speaker 2: creator or only fans content creators, to come on the

764
00:38:14,754 --> 00:38:17,514
Speaker 2: podcast and he humiliates them. So he'll ask them general

765
00:38:17,554 --> 00:38:19,074
Speaker 2: knowledge questions that he knows they're not going to be

766
00:38:19,074 --> 00:38:21,634
Speaker 2: the answer to, and then he'll mock them, talk about

767
00:38:21,634 --> 00:38:24,834
Speaker 2: their body count, just be generally gross and spread lots

768
00:38:24,834 --> 00:38:27,914
Speaker 2: of misinformation, and Louis has to be on that show

769
00:38:28,114 --> 00:38:30,674
Speaker 2: and he can't really. I just I don't know.

770
00:38:31,634 --> 00:38:35,074
Speaker 1: It's not just platforming, it's kind of like spurring them on,

771
00:38:35,234 --> 00:38:37,834
Speaker 1: like giving them content. Is that the critique?

772
00:38:38,274 --> 00:38:41,794
Speaker 2: I just found that very I felt like he was

773
00:38:42,234 --> 00:38:44,593
Speaker 2: I don't want to patronize through he's, you know, master

774
00:38:44,674 --> 00:38:47,474
Speaker 2: of his art, but I think these guys are playing

775
00:38:47,514 --> 00:38:48,594
Speaker 2: a different game to him.

776
00:38:48,954 --> 00:38:51,234
Speaker 3: But I think that he is a great lens to

777
00:38:51,314 --> 00:38:53,514
Speaker 3: see that because I think that the game they're playing

778
00:38:53,994 --> 00:38:55,074
Speaker 3: is the Donald Trump game?

779
00:38:55,314 --> 00:38:55,953
Speaker 2: Oh very much.

780
00:38:56,514 --> 00:38:59,553
Speaker 3: Ask me a question, and what I'll do is I'll

781
00:38:59,554 --> 00:39:02,433
Speaker 3: bring up your biggest vulnerability and I'll make you feel

782
00:39:02,474 --> 00:39:06,873
Speaker 3: embarrassed and so on that podcast when Louie's on it,

783
00:39:06,874 --> 00:39:09,554
Speaker 3: I think him being there was excellent because I didn't

784
00:39:09,554 --> 00:39:12,234
Speaker 3: know that this is law in the manisphere. I would

785
00:39:12,234 --> 00:39:14,354
Speaker 3: love to know if you've heard this, Amelia, did you

786
00:39:14,514 --> 00:39:18,154
Speaker 3: know that? Apparently if you've slept with more people than

787
00:39:18,154 --> 00:39:22,074
Speaker 3: your husband, then it's very scientific. But your body hangs

788
00:39:22,154 --> 00:39:25,594
Speaker 3: on to the genes of the other men you've had

789
00:39:25,754 --> 00:39:29,074
Speaker 3: heard and so when you have a baby, that's why

790
00:39:29,274 --> 00:39:31,114
Speaker 3: your baby can look like your ex.

791
00:39:31,234 --> 00:39:35,234
Speaker 1: Because your body is hanging onto the genetic material. That

792
00:39:35,354 --> 00:39:35,953
Speaker 1: sounds legit.

793
00:39:36,194 --> 00:39:36,594
Speaker 3: Yeah, And.

794
00:39:38,794 --> 00:39:40,634
Speaker 2: Yet it's the women on this show who are dumb

795
00:39:40,674 --> 00:39:43,274
Speaker 2: according to him. According to Marine Gaines, he's like, these

796
00:39:43,314 --> 00:39:45,754
Speaker 2: women don't know what the capital of Bulgaria is and

797
00:39:45,834 --> 00:39:48,513
Speaker 2: yet over here we've got to the DNA of every

798
00:39:48,514 --> 00:39:49,474
Speaker 2: man we've anyway.

799
00:39:49,834 --> 00:39:53,433
Speaker 3: But Louis's reaction to that is because Louis laughs out

800
00:39:53,434 --> 00:39:56,913
Speaker 3: loud and he says, this is the misinformation, like this

801
00:39:57,034 --> 00:39:58,513
Speaker 3: is hell, but is that good?

802
00:39:58,834 --> 00:40:01,513
Speaker 1: Like now that we're talking about this because he drew

803
00:40:01,514 --> 00:40:04,154
Speaker 1: our attention to it. I don't know if that's like good.

804
00:40:04,634 --> 00:40:08,674
Speaker 3: I think being able to laugh about it puts it

805
00:40:08,714 --> 00:40:11,914
Speaker 3: in a different context to how.

806
00:40:13,594 --> 00:40:16,714
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I as I say. In some ways,

807
00:40:16,714 --> 00:40:19,194
Speaker 2: I found this much less scary than I thought, because

808
00:40:19,274 --> 00:40:22,634
Speaker 2: they do all appear to be just fasarts, you know,

809
00:40:22,794 --> 00:40:24,953
Speaker 2: just just empty salesmen, like the equivalent of the guy

810
00:40:25,074 --> 00:40:26,634
Speaker 2: used to come and try and sell you a used

811
00:40:26,674 --> 00:40:29,954
Speaker 2: car or whatever. And they don't care at all about

812
00:40:29,954 --> 00:40:32,154
Speaker 2: the ideology. None of these guys seem to care even

813
00:40:32,154 --> 00:40:34,393
Speaker 2: a little bit about the ideology they're peddling. But the

814
00:40:34,394 --> 00:40:37,234
Speaker 2: problem is their followers probably do buy into it. And

815
00:40:37,234 --> 00:40:39,634
Speaker 2: that was confronting. But then the other thing was is

816
00:40:39,674 --> 00:40:41,554
Speaker 2: I was telling Amelia about it this morning, and I

817
00:40:41,594 --> 00:40:44,714
Speaker 2: was saying, all these guys are all so unseerious. They

818
00:40:44,714 --> 00:40:47,154
Speaker 2: can't stand by a single thing they said At the NDHS.

819
00:40:47,194 --> 00:40:50,594
Speaker 2: Tickie Talkie is saying, yeah, I said, I hate Jews,

820
00:40:50,914 --> 00:40:53,074
Speaker 2: but I don't, like, I'm not anti Semitic. I just

821
00:40:53,074 --> 00:40:56,154
Speaker 2: say that, and I say I hate gay people, but hey,

822
00:40:56,274 --> 00:40:58,594
Speaker 2: that guy over there, he's gazed. But like, they can't

823
00:40:58,634 --> 00:41:00,754
Speaker 2: stand by a single thing they're not serious people. And

824
00:41:00,794 --> 00:41:02,714
Speaker 2: I said that to Melia and she said.

825
00:41:02,834 --> 00:41:05,274
Speaker 1: No, one's serious anymore. And it got me thinking about

826
00:41:05,314 --> 00:41:06,993
Speaker 1: the fact that I remember when in the early days

827
00:41:06,994 --> 00:41:10,354
Speaker 1: of Twitter everyone had in their bios rts do not

828
00:41:10,514 --> 00:41:13,794
Speaker 1: equal endorsements. Retweets do not equal endorsements. The idea was

829
00:41:13,874 --> 00:41:16,914
Speaker 1: that if you posted something that someone else said posted,

830
00:41:16,994 --> 00:41:18,953
Speaker 1: you weren't saying you agreed with it. You just thought

831
00:41:18,994 --> 00:41:21,194
Speaker 1: it was important to get that idea into the circulation.

832
00:41:21,314 --> 00:41:23,834
Speaker 1: For whatever reason. It was newsworthy, it was provocative, it

833
00:41:23,874 --> 00:41:27,553
Speaker 1: was interesting. But I think the issue now is that

834
00:41:27,674 --> 00:41:32,474
Speaker 1: we are being led and influenced and governed by people

835
00:41:32,514 --> 00:41:35,394
Speaker 1: who don't believe what they're peddling and are just saying

836
00:41:35,434 --> 00:41:38,834
Speaker 1: it to get attention. But the line between just saying

837
00:41:38,874 --> 00:41:42,234
Speaker 1: it and living it has gotten completely blurred.

838
00:41:42,714 --> 00:41:46,834
Speaker 3: Agree. Agree, And that's exactly what Louis has said in

839
00:41:46,834 --> 00:41:51,194
Speaker 3: interviews since that that line is really really unclear, and

840
00:41:51,234 --> 00:41:55,554
Speaker 3: that these ideas have been around. You could recite what

841
00:41:55,594 --> 00:41:58,674
Speaker 3: these men say. It's been around for decades and decades,

842
00:41:59,154 --> 00:42:01,953
Speaker 3: but they were in like pick up artist books where

843
00:42:01,994 --> 00:42:05,114
Speaker 3: maybe some ice man and all that. Yes, however, many

844
00:42:05,154 --> 00:42:08,274
Speaker 3: people would read them. The problem now is that the

845
00:42:08,274 --> 00:42:11,033
Speaker 3: more radical you are, and the more extreme you are,

846
00:42:11,354 --> 00:42:13,514
Speaker 3: and the more offensive you are, the more attention, the

847
00:42:13,514 --> 00:42:14,433
Speaker 3: more attention you get.

848
00:42:14,594 --> 00:42:16,314
Speaker 2: And it doesn't really matter in a way if you

849
00:42:16,354 --> 00:42:19,593
Speaker 2: don't believe theti Semitic bullshit you're spouting, if it's all

850
00:42:19,674 --> 00:42:22,274
Speaker 2: out there and getting shared and disseminated.

851
00:42:21,834 --> 00:42:26,354
Speaker 3: Exactly, and so basically Lewis's point that he said in

852
00:42:26,394 --> 00:42:30,674
Speaker 3: these interviews is that it's really a question of policy

853
00:42:30,914 --> 00:42:33,754
Speaker 3: and of algorithms, which is interesting because Australia is trying

854
00:42:33,794 --> 00:42:37,194
Speaker 3: to do that and I kind of think, I don't

855
00:42:37,234 --> 00:42:37,954
Speaker 3: know if it's working.

856
00:42:37,994 --> 00:42:39,314
Speaker 2: I bet a lot of people who are listening to

857
00:42:39,354 --> 00:42:41,714
Speaker 2: this are like, I've got a son, Should I watch it?

858
00:42:41,714 --> 00:42:42,794
Speaker 2: Should I watch it with them?

859
00:42:42,914 --> 00:42:43,274
Speaker 1: Whatever?

860
00:42:43,474 --> 00:42:45,594
Speaker 2: I have a son who's in this bull's eye. All

861
00:42:45,634 --> 00:42:47,953
Speaker 2: the people who came up to these guys, by the way,

862
00:42:47,994 --> 00:42:50,913
Speaker 2: because they're quite big celebrities in their world, were young,

863
00:42:50,994 --> 00:42:53,314
Speaker 2: mostly young. Lots of young boys and some young men

864
00:42:53,514 --> 00:42:57,433
Speaker 2: really like young, like twelve like young come up and

865
00:42:57,434 --> 00:42:59,234
Speaker 2: they all want their picture taker work them, and they

866
00:42:59,314 --> 00:43:02,114
Speaker 2: all want them to do various in cell signs and stuff.

867
00:43:02,674 --> 00:43:04,794
Speaker 3: There's no forty year old men who are like, hey,

868
00:43:04,954 --> 00:43:06,914
Speaker 3: just tiktoki, here's my son like that.

869
00:43:09,034 --> 00:43:12,274
Speaker 2: But it did give me some good jumping off points

870
00:43:12,274 --> 00:43:15,154
Speaker 2: for conversations with my son about it, and one of

871
00:43:15,194 --> 00:43:17,433
Speaker 2: them was very much about, how have you noticed that

872
00:43:17,474 --> 00:43:20,234
Speaker 2: all these guys are in order to inflate because they're

873
00:43:20,274 --> 00:43:22,234
Speaker 2: basically praying on young men who feel like they've got

874
00:43:22,274 --> 00:43:25,834
Speaker 2: no economic future in various ways. Is there anyone who's

875
00:43:25,874 --> 00:43:27,913
Speaker 2: telling you they can blow you up by putting other

876
00:43:27,914 --> 00:43:30,393
Speaker 2: people down? That should always be a red flag. But

877
00:43:31,074 --> 00:43:34,194
Speaker 2: I think that if you're not familiar with this world,

878
00:43:34,794 --> 00:43:38,394
Speaker 2: it is a really informative watch. If you've got kids

879
00:43:38,434 --> 00:43:40,554
Speaker 2: who are swimming in this world, or indeed, if you

880
00:43:40,594 --> 00:43:43,114
Speaker 2: want to understand what Tyson on Maps is consuming in

881
00:43:43,154 --> 00:43:45,834
Speaker 2: his spare time. I think he's probably got some money

882
00:43:45,834 --> 00:43:47,874
Speaker 2: invested in hs tiki Talki's.

883
00:43:47,594 --> 00:43:52,954
Speaker 3: Financial, definitely, definitely, And he I think is a testament

884
00:43:52,994 --> 00:43:56,393
Speaker 3: to the fact that people really do recite these views. Yeah,

885
00:43:56,394 --> 00:43:58,354
Speaker 3: he's actually a little bit old for the demo, The

886
00:43:58,594 --> 00:44:02,674
Speaker 3: Bloody Tyson, I do reckon. What Louie was very good

887
00:44:02,674 --> 00:44:05,594
Speaker 3: at exposing was that at the underbelly of all of

888
00:44:05,594 --> 00:44:10,033
Speaker 3: this is selling stuff to teenagers. And so you say,

889
00:44:10,034 --> 00:44:13,433
Speaker 3: Holly that your flag is for your son is going

890
00:44:13,514 --> 00:44:15,834
Speaker 3: to be If they're trying to put other people down.

891
00:44:16,034 --> 00:44:20,194
Speaker 3: My flag, yeah, my flag is always are they selling

892
00:44:20,194 --> 00:44:23,074
Speaker 3: you something? If someone's telling you a really extreme thing

893
00:44:23,674 --> 00:44:28,554
Speaker 3: and then they're saying and subscribe to my finance app

894
00:44:28,794 --> 00:44:31,913
Speaker 3: or by my course, then don't freaking well it like,

895
00:44:32,074 --> 00:44:33,674
Speaker 3: I don't believe what they're saying. They're just trying to

896
00:44:33,674 --> 00:44:34,434
Speaker 3: sell you shit.

897
00:44:34,274 --> 00:44:36,154
Speaker 2: I know. But everyone on the internet is trying to

898
00:44:36,194 --> 00:44:38,834
Speaker 2: sell you. Actually, oh god.

899
00:44:38,994 --> 00:44:41,714
Speaker 3: It's really anyway. The internet is the problem anyway.

900
00:44:42,394 --> 00:44:44,674
Speaker 2: Claire's right, there are some lolls. So if you're not

901
00:44:44,674 --> 00:44:47,074
Speaker 2: worried about the end of the world, just laugh at

902
00:44:47,114 --> 00:44:49,433
Speaker 2: these silly men. Silly silly little men.

903
00:44:51,114 --> 00:44:55,114
Speaker 1: After the break, do you have a reply only friend?

904
00:44:55,434 --> 00:45:06,433
Speaker 1: Or are you a reply only friend? The comedian Tig

905
00:45:06,474 --> 00:45:10,913
Speaker 1: Nataro was on the Best People podcast recently. This is

906
00:45:10,954 --> 00:45:14,354
Speaker 1: hosted by a news anchor called Nicole Wallace, and she

907
00:45:14,474 --> 00:45:17,554
Speaker 1: said something about friendship which really struck a chord on

908
00:45:17,594 --> 00:45:20,834
Speaker 1: the Internet. She was talking about her friendship with Cheryl Hines,

909
00:45:20,874 --> 00:45:22,993
Speaker 1: who was an actor who was in Cobe Your Enthusiasm.

910
00:45:23,034 --> 00:45:26,114
Speaker 1: She played Larry David's wife and then ex wife. She

911
00:45:26,274 --> 00:45:28,954
Speaker 1: happens to be married to RFK Junior, who is a

912
00:45:28,994 --> 00:45:31,594
Speaker 1: Trump administration official. But this is not going to be

913
00:45:31,634 --> 00:45:35,194
Speaker 1: a discussion about politics. The nature of Cheryl and Tig's

914
00:45:35,234 --> 00:45:37,594
Speaker 1: fallout they were very good friends, they are no longer

915
00:45:37,994 --> 00:45:43,394
Speaker 1: was political. But what Tiggs said on this podcast about

916
00:45:43,514 --> 00:45:46,154
Speaker 1: how they fell out, I think will resonate with a

917
00:45:46,194 --> 00:45:49,514
Speaker 1: lot of people. It certainly resonated with me. The Internet

918
00:45:49,594 --> 00:45:52,194
Speaker 1: is now calling the people that Tig describes in this

919
00:45:52,354 --> 00:45:55,554
Speaker 1: video reply only friends, and you'll see why. Let's take

920
00:45:55,594 --> 00:45:55,994
Speaker 1: a listen.

921
00:45:56,314 --> 00:46:01,433
Speaker 7: And she would respond very pleasantly, thanks lady, Oh this

922
00:46:01,554 --> 00:46:05,393
Speaker 7: means so much, and I love you and miss you

923
00:46:05,634 --> 00:46:09,634
Speaker 7: and all of that. When I realized one day she

924
00:46:09,714 --> 00:46:13,754
Speaker 7: doesn't ever reach out to me anymore. She's responds to me,

925
00:46:14,154 --> 00:46:18,114
Speaker 7: but she doesn't reach out to me, and I had

926
00:46:18,154 --> 00:46:22,634
Speaker 7: to kind of shake myself out of denial that, oh

927
00:46:22,754 --> 00:46:24,234
Speaker 7: she's she's gone.

928
00:46:24,714 --> 00:46:27,514
Speaker 1: So the term that the Internet is using to describe

929
00:46:27,514 --> 00:46:29,834
Speaker 1: this kind of person, this kind of friend, is a

930
00:46:29,874 --> 00:46:33,754
Speaker 1: reply only friend. And I got into a really interesting

931
00:46:33,794 --> 00:46:37,913
Speaker 1: conversation on Reddit about this where people were disagreeing about it.

932
00:46:37,954 --> 00:46:41,794
Speaker 1: So a lot of people said that reply only friends

933
00:46:42,234 --> 00:46:43,913
Speaker 1: are just something you've got to deal with. As you

934
00:46:43,954 --> 00:46:46,634
Speaker 1: get older, like you learn that there are people who

935
00:46:46,674 --> 00:46:48,314
Speaker 1: are just not going to put in the effort and

936
00:46:48,394 --> 00:46:50,474
Speaker 1: you just have to decide whether or not you're okay

937
00:46:50,514 --> 00:46:53,154
Speaker 1: with that. But then there were other people who were

938
00:46:53,194 --> 00:46:55,754
Speaker 1: saying that it's wrong to keep scoring this way, that

939
00:46:55,834 --> 00:46:57,994
Speaker 1: if you want to see someone and spend time with someone,

940
00:46:57,994 --> 00:47:00,634
Speaker 1: that you should do that friendship is not about tallies.

941
00:47:00,754 --> 00:47:03,393
Speaker 1: It's not about figuring out who's putting in more work

942
00:47:03,434 --> 00:47:06,074
Speaker 1: at any given time. And then there was another really

943
00:47:06,114 --> 00:47:08,434
Speaker 1: interesting point that I had a thought about in defense

944
00:47:08,474 --> 00:47:10,913
Speaker 1: of the reply only friend that said that taking that

945
00:47:11,034 --> 00:47:14,074
Speaker 1: kind of initiative is about executive functioning, and that is

946
00:47:14,114 --> 00:47:16,913
Speaker 1: something that some people have more of than others, and

947
00:47:16,954 --> 00:47:19,433
Speaker 1: it's wrong to kind of judge or to think that

948
00:47:19,434 --> 00:47:22,394
Speaker 1: that means that someone doesn't want to be friends with you. Claire,

949
00:47:22,514 --> 00:47:25,913
Speaker 1: do you think that the reply only friend phenomenon is

950
00:47:26,034 --> 00:47:28,674
Speaker 1: real or justified or do you think that some of

951
00:47:28,714 --> 00:47:31,034
Speaker 1: these other sort of defenses of the reply only friend

952
00:47:31,074 --> 00:47:31,834
Speaker 1: do hold water.

953
00:47:32,434 --> 00:47:35,393
Speaker 3: I realized when when you sent this that I am

954
00:47:35,434 --> 00:47:37,314
Speaker 3: a reply only are you?

955
00:47:37,594 --> 00:47:37,674
Speaker 2: So?

956
00:47:37,914 --> 00:47:39,834
Speaker 3: I am? I am going to defend.

957
00:47:39,714 --> 00:47:42,834
Speaker 1: Okay in defensive reply only friends good because I am

958
00:47:42,874 --> 00:47:44,274
Speaker 1: not so I want to hear the defense.

959
00:47:44,394 --> 00:47:46,473
Speaker 2: I want to hear why you don't like them though, too,

960
00:47:46,594 --> 00:47:47,274
Speaker 2: before we do.

961
00:47:47,234 --> 00:47:49,393
Speaker 1: It, because I feel the same way as Tig. I

962
00:47:49,434 --> 00:47:52,234
Speaker 1: feel like sick of always putting in the effort, and

963
00:47:52,314 --> 00:47:54,514
Speaker 1: it's hard not to take it personally when they just

964
00:47:55,154 --> 00:47:59,354
Speaker 1: never meet me and they never take the initiative with me.

965
00:47:59,994 --> 00:48:03,473
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get better as I get older, and

966
00:48:03,634 --> 00:48:06,954
Speaker 3: as I maybe get my priorities right and realize that

967
00:48:07,554 --> 00:48:09,834
Speaker 3: relationships are the most important thing in life, like all

968
00:48:09,874 --> 00:48:14,354
Speaker 3: of that stuff, and also as people go through more shit,

969
00:48:14,794 --> 00:48:17,154
Speaker 3: Like I'm very aware that you can't just be the

970
00:48:17,194 --> 00:48:21,154
Speaker 3: reply only friend when people are going through hard stuff.

971
00:48:21,194 --> 00:48:24,954
Speaker 3: You need to be reaching out. But I will say

972
00:48:25,314 --> 00:48:28,154
Speaker 3: I really agree with the point that I don't think

973
00:48:28,194 --> 00:48:34,074
Speaker 3: it's about keeping tallies. I have friendship dynamics where, for

974
00:48:34,114 --> 00:48:36,474
Speaker 3: better or worse, it is understood that I'm the reply

975
00:48:36,554 --> 00:48:40,194
Speaker 3: only friend, and I'm the reply only friend, but like,

976
00:48:40,274 --> 00:48:43,474
Speaker 3: I will show up, so it's like I'll get the invite,

977
00:48:43,914 --> 00:48:45,834
Speaker 3: but I will show up, And a lot of people

978
00:48:45,834 --> 00:48:49,074
Speaker 3: don't show up to the invite, so that's quite reliable

979
00:48:50,034 --> 00:48:52,393
Speaker 3: that I will. I will reply, but.

980
00:48:52,514 --> 00:48:54,794
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get into the end less back

981
00:48:54,834 --> 00:48:55,514
Speaker 2: and forth.

982
00:48:55,274 --> 00:48:55,953
Speaker 1: About the thing.

983
00:48:56,354 --> 00:48:58,554
Speaker 3: No, and I'm not going to take the initiative of

984
00:48:58,634 --> 00:49:00,674
Speaker 3: like picking where to have don And this is the

985
00:49:00,714 --> 00:49:03,394
Speaker 3: other thing, the very intricacies. It's like, so we should

986
00:49:03,394 --> 00:49:05,994
Speaker 3: pick where we have dinner. I'm bad at that. I

987
00:49:06,074 --> 00:49:08,754
Speaker 3: will make a horrible, horrible decision. Everybody will have a

988
00:49:08,754 --> 00:49:12,074
Speaker 3: bad meal, whereas somebody else might enjoy food.

989
00:49:12,194 --> 00:49:15,714
Speaker 1: But Claire Devil's advocate, do you not think you could

990
00:49:15,754 --> 00:49:18,354
Speaker 1: be the one to say, let's have dinner, you pick

991
00:49:18,434 --> 00:49:19,594
Speaker 1: the restaurant. I'm bad at it.

992
00:49:19,754 --> 00:49:19,913
Speaker 2: Yeah.

993
00:49:19,994 --> 00:49:22,873
Speaker 3: See, that's really that is really good, And that is

994
00:49:22,914 --> 00:49:25,194
Speaker 3: what I'm trying to get better at, is the kind

995
00:49:25,234 --> 00:49:30,514
Speaker 3: of outreach and just letting people know I'm there. But

996
00:49:30,754 --> 00:49:34,514
Speaker 3: I'm very, very bad at the making plans and the

997
00:49:34,674 --> 00:49:37,594
Speaker 3: making a call and all of that. But I also

998
00:49:38,314 --> 00:49:41,794
Speaker 3: loved Tigg says later on, and it is a bit

999
00:49:41,834 --> 00:49:45,393
Speaker 3: specific to the nature of her friendship. Breakdown a line

1000
00:49:45,434 --> 00:49:48,514
Speaker 3: about people deserving a friend when they least deserve a far.

1001
00:49:48,394 --> 00:49:51,074
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love this. When someone doesn't deserve a friend,

1002
00:49:51,274 --> 00:49:54,114
Speaker 1: that's when they need the friend the most. And I

1003
00:49:54,194 --> 00:49:58,473
Speaker 1: think that's relevant to this conversation because sometimes someone can

1004
00:49:58,554 --> 00:50:02,274
Speaker 1: really be going through something and they just cannot be

1005
00:50:02,314 --> 00:50:04,754
Speaker 1: there for you in the same way they cannot be

1006
00:50:04,834 --> 00:50:07,474
Speaker 1: reaching out to you. And I think that's a really

1007
00:50:07,754 --> 00:50:10,314
Speaker 1: valid point, and it's sort of a caveat to the

1008
00:50:10,354 --> 00:50:13,074
Speaker 1: idea that reply only friends and not worth the effort.

1009
00:50:13,434 --> 00:50:18,393
Speaker 3: That also goes for maybe times in people's lives where

1010
00:50:18,394 --> 00:50:23,393
Speaker 3: they've made horrible mistakes, where they've behaved badly, where they

1011
00:50:23,954 --> 00:50:28,874
Speaker 3: have said something stupid. And what I found interesting about

1012
00:50:28,994 --> 00:50:32,714
Speaker 3: Tig's particular experience is the difference between when somebody has

1013
00:50:33,354 --> 00:50:36,434
Speaker 3: maybe exposed a character flaw or a difference of opinion,

1014
00:50:36,554 --> 00:50:40,594
Speaker 3: and when that becomes a fundamental clash of values. And

1015
00:50:40,634 --> 00:50:44,754
Speaker 3: I think that that is kind of underlying the conversation

1016
00:50:44,914 --> 00:50:47,554
Speaker 3: she's having more whereas the reply only friend is a

1017
00:50:47,554 --> 00:50:50,954
Speaker 3: bit more of the surface level, Like the problem is

1018
00:50:50,994 --> 00:50:52,954
Speaker 3: whether there's a fundamental clash of values.

1019
00:50:52,994 --> 00:50:55,194
Speaker 2: I loved listen on last week's One of Me has

1020
00:50:55,394 --> 00:50:58,234
Speaker 2: Subscribe episodes. Last week, you, Amelia and Me have talked

1021
00:50:58,234 --> 00:51:01,314
Speaker 2: about friendship, including a bit of this conversation, but then

1022
00:51:01,354 --> 00:51:03,714
Speaker 2: about the things you need for friendship, and it was

1023
00:51:03,794 --> 00:51:07,274
Speaker 2: like proximity, live stage.

1024
00:51:07,554 --> 00:51:09,354
Speaker 3: Something energy with energy.

1025
00:51:09,474 --> 00:51:12,913
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love this right. It did also make

1026
00:51:12,994 --> 00:51:15,393
Speaker 2: me wonder listening to that conversation in whether or not

1027
00:51:15,474 --> 00:51:18,554
Speaker 2: we all might have slightly different definitions of friendship and

1028
00:51:18,634 --> 00:51:22,394
Speaker 2: what we want from friendships because and like you, Amelia,

1029
00:51:22,634 --> 00:51:26,114
Speaker 2: my life experiences that I've spent many, many years now

1030
00:51:26,514 --> 00:51:29,114
Speaker 2: in no proximity to some of my favorite people. So

1031
00:51:29,234 --> 00:51:33,794
Speaker 2: I'm very comfortable with not being constantly in contact with people.

1032
00:51:33,874 --> 00:51:36,514
Speaker 2: Like I. If someone I haven't spoken to for a

1033
00:51:36,634 --> 00:51:39,114
Speaker 2: year messages me and says, let's have a drink, my

1034
00:51:39,194 --> 00:51:40,314
Speaker 2: first thought is not, where.

1035
00:51:40,194 --> 00:51:40,634
Speaker 1: Have you been?

1036
00:51:40,994 --> 00:51:42,873
Speaker 2: Like I'm like, oh, that'd be great. Yeah, you know

1037
00:51:42,874 --> 00:51:45,354
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like, I don't. I think there are

1038
00:51:45,434 --> 00:51:48,594
Speaker 2: levels of friendship that this isn't true for, but that

1039
00:51:48,914 --> 00:51:53,834
Speaker 2: in general, constant contact is not my definition of friendship,

1040
00:51:53,994 --> 00:51:57,234
Speaker 2: so I don't think therefore that's why this doesn't like

1041
00:51:57,274 --> 00:51:59,393
Speaker 2: reply only friends don't upset me so much because I'm

1042
00:51:59,474 --> 00:52:02,314
Speaker 2: kind of like, well, who's got time to be messaging

1043
00:52:02,354 --> 00:52:02,754
Speaker 2: every day?

1044
00:52:02,834 --> 00:52:05,594
Speaker 1: Like that's interesting. It sparked something in me that I

1045
00:52:05,674 --> 00:52:08,234
Speaker 1: have one friend who has that ladder but is not

1046
00:52:08,434 --> 00:52:10,953
Speaker 1: anywhere near where I am living right now. In fact,

1047
00:52:11,034 --> 00:52:14,714
Speaker 1: she's not in Australia, and she texted me this morning,

1048
00:52:14,794 --> 00:52:18,234
Speaker 1: are we still doing Underwire Bras, and if you'd scrolled

1049
00:52:18,274 --> 00:52:21,034
Speaker 1: up in our conversation, we probably spoke two weeks ago

1050
00:52:21,154 --> 00:52:25,473
Speaker 1: about something completely different. That kind of friendship where you

1051
00:52:25,514 --> 00:52:28,634
Speaker 1: can just go straight in with the random remark is

1052
00:52:28,714 --> 00:52:31,954
Speaker 1: how you keep a friendship alive over many years and

1053
00:52:31,994 --> 00:52:33,114
Speaker 1: a cross big distances.

1054
00:52:33,194 --> 00:52:34,754
Speaker 2: And you and me I had a really good chat

1055
00:52:34,794 --> 00:52:38,274
Speaker 2: about that, because the problem with the constant contact stuff

1056
00:52:38,394 --> 00:52:40,514
Speaker 2: is that sometimes you've got lots to talk about with

1057
00:52:40,634 --> 00:52:42,834
Speaker 2: somebody you know, so you might be in a period

1058
00:52:42,834 --> 00:52:46,034
Speaker 2: of high engagement, but then you might not. And to me,

1059
00:52:46,194 --> 00:52:48,674
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that friendship is dying or in danger

1060
00:52:48,794 --> 00:52:52,154
Speaker 2: or anything. It's just a life thing. But the reach

1061
00:52:52,234 --> 00:52:56,314
Speaker 2: out is crucial. And you made the point in that conversation,

1062
00:52:56,634 --> 00:52:58,554
Speaker 2: which I thought is really true, that how are you?

1063
00:52:58,714 --> 00:52:59,794
Speaker 2: Is the worst question?

1064
00:52:59,954 --> 00:53:00,873
Speaker 1: Oh it's all And.

1065
00:53:00,954 --> 00:53:03,194
Speaker 2: I know I'm guilty of it often, right because I'll

1066
00:53:03,194 --> 00:53:06,393
Speaker 2: suddenly think I haven't talked to Betty in months and

1067
00:53:06,434 --> 00:53:08,554
Speaker 2: I've got two manch while I'm not doing anything.

1068
00:53:08,594 --> 00:53:11,274
Speaker 1: It's actually even worse if they're going through something. And

1069
00:53:11,514 --> 00:53:13,794
Speaker 1: if I'm going through something and I get the how.

1070
00:53:13,754 --> 00:53:16,873
Speaker 2: Are so I'll be like, hey, Betty, how are you?

1071
00:53:17,194 --> 00:53:19,194
Speaker 2: And like what kind of a question is that, And

1072
00:53:19,274 --> 00:53:22,674
Speaker 2: you guys talked about different openers. I think you're right.

1073
00:53:22,754 --> 00:53:25,274
Speaker 2: Like my friendships that have a lot of energy, even

1074
00:53:25,274 --> 00:53:27,954
Speaker 2: if we don't see each other very often, you just

1075
00:53:28,034 --> 00:53:31,314
Speaker 2: can kick off with any message. But my concern with

1076
00:53:31,434 --> 00:53:34,314
Speaker 2: us putting too many rules around how regular contact has

1077
00:53:34,354 --> 00:53:36,354
Speaker 2: to be and all those things is that we're always

1078
00:53:36,354 --> 00:53:38,913
Speaker 2: on the lookout for a slight, you know what I mean.

1079
00:53:39,274 --> 00:53:42,194
Speaker 2: So somebody reaches out to me and is like, did

1080
00:53:42,234 --> 00:53:46,194
Speaker 2: you see Chalamaig's ridiculous mustache at the oscars? And if

1081
00:53:46,234 --> 00:53:47,754
Speaker 2: I start off with or where have you been?

1082
00:53:47,874 --> 00:53:49,794
Speaker 1: I haven't heard from you in six months? Then that's

1083
00:53:49,834 --> 00:53:52,794
Speaker 1: not No, that's not nice either. I think it's about

1084
00:53:52,834 --> 00:53:58,514
Speaker 1: calibrating your check ins to a mutually agreed level. So,

1085
00:53:58,594 --> 00:54:00,754
Speaker 1: for instance, if that friend who texted me about the

1086
00:54:00,794 --> 00:54:03,754
Speaker 1: underwire Bras had texted me this morning, how are you?

1087
00:54:03,954 --> 00:54:04,154
Speaker 3: Yes?

1088
00:54:05,234 --> 00:54:08,194
Speaker 1: What to respond to this? Yes, but to the end

1089
00:54:08,194 --> 00:54:10,594
Speaker 1: of why Bras, I stopped everything? I texted her like, yeah,

1090
00:54:10,634 --> 00:54:13,114
Speaker 1: we are doing sorry to inform you.

1091
00:54:13,514 --> 00:54:16,073
Speaker 2: You're giving someone a gift of making a reply quite

1092
00:54:16,114 --> 00:54:18,873
Speaker 2: easy too, write yaues. It's like what are you eating

1093
00:54:18,994 --> 00:54:21,554
Speaker 2: right now? Or like I don't know whatever, like some

1094
00:54:21,554 --> 00:54:22,274
Speaker 2: more good questions.

1095
00:54:22,354 --> 00:54:25,554
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's another example because on the subscriber that you're

1096
00:54:25,554 --> 00:54:27,914
Speaker 1: talking about, Maya asked me how I have any friends,

1097
00:54:27,994 --> 00:54:30,154
Speaker 1: because I have moved around a lot, and I said,

1098
00:54:30,194 --> 00:54:32,554
Speaker 1: I actually think that I have a lot of friends.

1099
00:54:32,914 --> 00:54:37,473
Speaker 1: And one of my friends lives in California and we

1100
00:54:37,714 --> 00:54:40,594
Speaker 1: don't speak often. I've never lived in California. But I

1101
00:54:40,794 --> 00:54:43,194
Speaker 1: was proud of my check in with her. The other day.

1102
00:54:43,474 --> 00:54:47,234
Speaker 1: I asked her how many times she'd exercised that week

1103
00:54:47,274 --> 00:54:49,714
Speaker 1: or how many pilates classes she'd taken, because she'd told

1104
00:54:49,714 --> 00:54:52,154
Speaker 1: me in a previous conversation she was feeling a bit down.

1105
00:54:52,234 --> 00:54:54,674
Speaker 1: She wasn't getting to pilates. She wanted to get to

1106
00:54:54,714 --> 00:54:57,034
Speaker 1: Politi's more because it was making her feel better. And

1107
00:54:57,074 --> 00:54:59,474
Speaker 1: she literally wrote back with a number, and then I

1108
00:54:59,474 --> 00:55:02,354
Speaker 1: felt like we had this micro connection for the moment,

1109
00:55:02,394 --> 00:55:04,954
Speaker 1: which I think was really good. One idea that Mia

1110
00:55:05,034 --> 00:55:08,474
Speaker 1: has pioneered is she asks people. She's asked me for

1111
00:55:08,594 --> 00:55:12,074
Speaker 1: three words. So I went to Washington, DC recently on

1112
00:55:12,114 --> 00:55:14,474
Speaker 1: work and it was obviously, you know, a sort of

1113
00:55:14,634 --> 00:55:17,754
Speaker 1: dramatic experience in a number of ways, and Mia texted

1114
00:55:17,794 --> 00:55:21,993
Speaker 1: me while I was away three words for Washington, and

1115
00:55:22,234 --> 00:55:25,194
Speaker 1: it's really helpful to just be asked to nominate three

1116
00:55:25,234 --> 00:55:27,994
Speaker 1: words when you're having an experience where you are feeling

1117
00:55:28,034 --> 00:55:30,154
Speaker 1: a lot of big feelings and you don't quite know

1118
00:55:30,194 --> 00:55:32,314
Speaker 1: how to put that into words. I think the main

1119
00:55:32,354 --> 00:55:34,674
Speaker 1: tip is like not to say how are you. I

1120
00:55:34,674 --> 00:55:37,634
Speaker 1: think it's just that is conversation killer. I like also

1121
00:55:37,674 --> 00:55:40,914
Speaker 1: asking someone if they're reading anything good, if they're watching

1122
00:55:40,954 --> 00:55:42,474
Speaker 1: the pit because I'm obsessed.

1123
00:55:42,594 --> 00:55:46,994
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, But I also think in terms of the

1124
00:55:47,114 --> 00:55:50,594
Speaker 3: reply only friend and what both of you were saying

1125
00:55:50,634 --> 00:55:54,274
Speaker 3: about those kind of I don't know, different more novel

1126
00:55:54,354 --> 00:55:57,234
Speaker 3: conversation starts. I'm good at that, Like I will see

1127
00:55:57,274 --> 00:56:00,034
Speaker 3: a piece of gossip or something going on on TikTok

1128
00:56:00,074 --> 00:56:01,634
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I know who to say this to you,

1129
00:56:01,834 --> 00:56:03,433
Speaker 3: and we'll have a chat about that, and then we

1130
00:56:03,514 --> 00:56:06,354
Speaker 3: may not talk for six months. That's fine. But with

1131
00:56:06,394 --> 00:56:10,354
Speaker 3: a reply only friend, I think friendship, like any relationship,

1132
00:56:10,434 --> 00:56:13,674
Speaker 3: is based on a dynamic. So I think in some

1133
00:56:13,714 --> 00:56:16,754
Speaker 3: ways I've kind of paired up with friends who were

1134
00:56:16,754 --> 00:56:19,234
Speaker 3: the reach out friend. Yeah, do you know what I mean?

1135
00:56:19,714 --> 00:56:22,554
Speaker 3: And I was wondering, Amelia, because you tell a story

1136
00:56:22,674 --> 00:56:25,073
Speaker 3: on the subs episode that we won't get into because

1137
00:56:25,074 --> 00:56:29,034
Speaker 3: it's so juicy it just needs its space. There about

1138
00:56:29,034 --> 00:56:31,714
Speaker 3: you being very assertive with a friend about a very

1139
00:56:31,754 --> 00:56:35,433
Speaker 3: big life decision. Are you friends with people who are

1140
00:56:35,474 --> 00:56:36,674
Speaker 3: similarly assertive?

1141
00:56:37,914 --> 00:56:41,834
Speaker 1: Oh, that's interesting, I think so, like if someone was

1142
00:56:41,834 --> 00:56:45,393
Speaker 1: that direct with you, well, maybe that's pretty direct. And

1143
00:56:45,474 --> 00:56:48,754
Speaker 1: I feel like we have sometimes our friendship has gone

1144
00:56:48,794 --> 00:56:51,873
Speaker 1: through a stage of just sending each other articles, and

1145
00:56:51,954 --> 00:56:54,834
Speaker 1: that is a way of communicating because maybe there's too

1146
00:56:54,914 --> 00:56:57,754
Speaker 1: much going on in both of our lives to debrief properly.

1147
00:56:57,834 --> 00:56:59,994
Speaker 1: We don't even really want to get into it. So

1148
00:57:00,154 --> 00:57:03,034
Speaker 1: the sending of articles is a way of being in

1149
00:57:03,114 --> 00:57:06,314
Speaker 1: touch without having to get into it at any given time.

1150
00:57:06,634 --> 00:57:11,433
Speaker 3: And it's like, here's where I'm at. Ideologically, that's not

1151
00:57:11,554 --> 00:57:11,953
Speaker 3: your thing.

1152
00:57:12,154 --> 00:57:14,314
Speaker 2: Like I've got friends who we just send pictures like

1153
00:57:14,554 --> 00:57:16,194
Speaker 2: this is what I'm looking at. This is what I mean,

1154
00:57:17,834 --> 00:57:19,754
Speaker 2: glimmers when you're going through a hard time, like this

1155
00:57:19,794 --> 00:57:21,834
Speaker 2: is something will make you laugh, like, but just picture,

1156
00:57:21,994 --> 00:57:25,514
Speaker 2: no pressure to respond. I relate Claire with the fact

1157
00:57:25,554 --> 00:57:27,874
Speaker 2: that because I'm not a very good check in friend,

1158
00:57:28,834 --> 00:57:30,874
Speaker 2: a lot of my friends are good check in friends.

1159
00:57:30,994 --> 00:57:33,474
Speaker 2: And that's probably said, doesn't say anything good about me,

1160
00:57:33,914 --> 00:57:36,954
Speaker 2: but I feel quite smothered if people want things from

1161
00:57:37,034 --> 00:57:39,554
Speaker 2: me all the time. I'm like, eh, but I.

1162
00:57:39,474 --> 00:57:41,234
Speaker 1: Do you suggest social plans?

1163
00:57:41,554 --> 00:57:41,714
Speaker 5: Oh?

1164
00:57:41,794 --> 00:57:44,594
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh definitely I will. My favorite way to socialize

1165
00:57:44,594 --> 00:57:47,114
Speaker 2: is one on one over a walk, a coffee or drink, right,

1166
00:57:47,154 --> 00:57:50,034
Speaker 2: So I much prefer that then group dinners and lots

1167
00:57:50,034 --> 00:57:52,154
Speaker 2: of things like that. So I will definitely. I did

1168
00:57:52,194 --> 00:57:55,154
Speaker 2: it yesterday. So it was like admin half hour. I

1169
00:57:55,194 --> 00:57:57,354
Speaker 2: had a minute, and there were three of my friends

1170
00:57:57,354 --> 00:57:59,114
Speaker 2: who I haven't seen for ages, because I've got lots

1171
00:57:59,114 --> 00:58:01,754
Speaker 2: of friends who might not see for months, and I'm like,

1172
00:58:02,234 --> 00:58:04,034
Speaker 2: three dates, pick one, three dates.

1173
00:58:03,874 --> 00:58:04,194
Speaker 3: Pick one.

1174
00:58:04,274 --> 00:58:06,914
Speaker 2: So I will do that. But you get into a

1175
00:58:07,154 --> 00:58:09,514
Speaker 2: and rhythm with friends, and I think I just don't

1176
00:58:09,554 --> 00:58:12,594
Speaker 2: necessarily think that the judge of a good friend is

1177
00:58:12,634 --> 00:58:14,474
Speaker 2: how regularly you talk to each other.

1178
00:58:14,554 --> 00:58:17,114
Speaker 1: No, I guess I'd just add that speaking on behalf

1179
00:58:17,314 --> 00:58:20,754
Speaker 1: of the reach out friends to the reply only friends.

1180
00:58:21,314 --> 00:58:24,034
Speaker 1: Just make sure that you let us know that you're

1181
00:58:24,074 --> 00:58:27,114
Speaker 1: thinking of us, even if you don't want to suggest

1182
00:58:27,114 --> 00:58:29,314
Speaker 1: a date right now, or you can't get into this

1183
00:58:29,354 --> 00:58:31,554
Speaker 1: big thing that's happening in your life, or you're not

1184
00:58:31,594 --> 00:58:34,034
Speaker 1: watching the pit I still want to hear from you.

1185
00:58:34,394 --> 00:58:34,794
Speaker 1: That's all.

1186
00:58:34,994 --> 00:58:36,154
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's good to know.

1187
00:58:37,714 --> 00:58:39,794
Speaker 2: That is all. We've got time for out louders on

1188
00:58:39,834 --> 00:58:42,594
Speaker 2: this Oscar Monday. We will be back in your ears tomorrow. Well,

1189
00:58:42,634 --> 00:58:44,434
Speaker 2: Mia will be back in your ears tomorrow with a

1190
00:58:44,474 --> 00:58:48,754
Speaker 2: full red carpet fashion rundown with the amazing m Vernum.

1191
00:58:48,834 --> 00:58:49,754
Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear that.

1192
00:58:49,754 --> 00:58:50,634
Speaker 1: That's going to be great.

1193
00:58:50,714 --> 00:58:52,794
Speaker 2: It is, but we will be back in your ears

1194
00:58:52,794 --> 00:58:55,514
Speaker 2: on Wednesday. Massive thank you to our team for helping

1195
00:58:55,594 --> 00:58:58,154
Speaker 2: us put the show together as always see then.

1196
00:58:58,234 --> 00:59:00,674
Speaker 1: Bye bye.

1197
00:59:05,394 --> 00:59:08,794
Speaker 3: Mummyer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which

1198
00:59:08,834 --> 00:59:10,274
Speaker 3: we have recorded this podcast.